Ultra Zero G Pro (8WD, Watercooled, Hydra, 9mm Belts, 54V, 2:46.42 Benchy)

[dense elbow]

Meanwells are adjustable up to 60

60 x 2.5A x 8 = 1200W = 2 600W PSU

[obtuse field]

I think the octopus pro does 60v as well

[dense elbow]

That's guaranteed to fry everything though

[obtuse field]

Yeah, on the spec sheet It says the adjustment range is to 52.8V

[dense elbow]

The motion system couldn't handle that kind of stress without being all metal at the minimum

Hybrid would need to be 9mm

[obtuse field]

But 1200W at 48v gives you plenty of headroom to do 3A motors

That’s true

[obtuse field]

I may just bite the bullet and do the 1000W so I don’t have to try and make extra room. Still debating it lol

[dense elbow]

I'm looking at other options rn

[obtuse field]

Dope I’m probably not ordering until tomorrow or Saturday

[thorn crown]

no lol

[obtuse field]

Yeah I realized I had it wrong after I sent that lol

[deft egret]

Guys calm down with 1kw power supply's you need less than 500 for 3A all motors

600w has 120w headroom

I would recommend a 60v 800w power supply at most

That would leave 320w headroom

[dense elbow]

The math doesn't add up though?

[deft egret]

Beacuse the motor is not at 60v

The driver is

The motors is at a much lower voltage

I will test tomorow

For 8 motors at 2A

With a multimeter

[deft egret]

And the motors is at 2A not the driver, so math is not going to math because you cant multiply the motor amps with the driver voltage

If 48v 2A were on all motors you would need 768w and my power supply would just pop

[obtuse field]

That makes sense

Also vzbot’s run theirs at 1.9 run current and they only come with a 350w power supply for the 48v

So I should be good with the 350w… 600w if I want some headroom/upgradability later

[deft egret]

In theory you need 320w for 2A so for 3A you would need 480w

What I would get a 60V, it makes the motors even more powerful at higher speeds

[obtuse field]

I don’t think meanwell makes a 60v one but I found some on amazon that are cheap. Idk how good they are though

https://a.co/d/388IOwJ

https://a.co/d/gptG94w

The 5160T Pros say they can only do 56V max

[deft egret]

Meanwell makes 55v if I remember correctly

[obtuse field]

I’ll probably just stick with the 48v one. Either 350 or 600w but probably 600.

This was a great watch. Currently watching this one now:

https://youtu.be/lftsMrksdTA?si=jBwybYmvmBdMZQM9

[dense elbow]

Meanwells lrs can be adjusted to up to 57.9 volts

[dense elbow]

https://youtu.be/RWDZLtUeg6o?si=c-3NYCdJxNa47XQi

These are the same motors we're using

You can see it even goes over the set current for a bit.

So voltage isn't a part of the equation, it purely just helps it reach max amps faster. So you would still need enough amps for all motors. 8*3=24 amps, doesn't matter what voltage.

So if you got a 48v you would need an 1152 watt power supply

[obtuse field]

Yeah these videos have been amazing

I’m on the dyno vid right now but gonna watch that one next

[obtuse field]

So dual 600’s?

[dense elbow]

Looking at all the offerings

I think I might have found a good single one

[obtuse field]

👀

[dense elbow]

Ok here's the options. If you want to run 8 motors at 3A (would be insane and probably unachievable would only be for doing speed runs) you would need 1152w.... Active cooling, and short run times. Plus the motors that even support that. So 1000W is enough.

Realistically you're looking at like 1.6A for a still fast but daily driver experience IMO which is 12.8 A or 614W at 48V so anything more is for speed.

Cheapest:
LRS-600-48 X2 $100-140

Silent Smallest Single:
UHP-1000-48 $230

Cheapest Single but Loud and Huge:
SE-1000-48 $183

So it's stick to a single 600 and be happy for 99%, get 1000 and be totally set but compromise in cost or sound. Or piggyback the two 600s and somehow find some space for em.

[obtuse field]

Would 4th option be take a gamble on random brand power supply? lol

https://a.co/d/ftUtCJu

[dense elbow]

For sure an option

[obtuse field]

Cost would suck but since I’m running cpap I’m not too worried about the sound

[obtuse field]

Honestly may take the gamble on it but still not sure

Reviews seem pretty solid

Fan is always on though and not temp controlled

[dense elbow]

Even if they inflated the values by %20 you still would have 1000 watts

[obtuse field]

Exactly

Also adjustable up to 52.8v apparently

[obtuse field]

This one has temperature sensor before fan kicks on. Probably gonna give it a shot tbh.

https://a.co/d/aPokPE0

[dense elbow]

My brain hurts so much, but I know so much more about printers now

I binged all his videos

I hope he comes back soon, no posts for a year

[thorn crown]

who?

[dense elbow]

eddie the engineer

[thorn crown]

ah, that guy

I should watch him, but I cant sit thru the vids lol

[dense elbow]

What I learned is I def need more power

[brittle cedar]

That's wonderful. I've always wondered what spread cycle was.

[dense elbow]

This comment had me spinning, because you're totally right. Also looking at the watt usage graph, it doesn't line up with the amp usage graph. So how does that make any sense? However I think I know why. The watt graph provides an average power usage at a given speed. Which is pretty low, because it's throttling itself to maintain that speed. The amperage graph provides instant amperage applied, but if you look the voltage is increasing with time as the stepper starts moving faster and faster. From what I can tell, the massive capacitors on the kraken are tanking those amperage spikes because the voltage is so low, which would explain why the power supply isn't needing to push out the max wattage. Also meanwells specifically the lrs models can provide up to 150% power output for short periods of time, using huge capacitors as well. So it seems like yes you can use a smaller power supply and still get good results. However if you want maximum performance and overkill, it could be necessary to ensure you have enough headroom for the power supply to provide enough current for sustained high speeds.

I think the attached graph supports that, as you can see the power usage increases with speed, because it's actually allowing more power to hit the stepper. As established higher voltage let's you hit higher current faster. Based on that graph, at around 1000mm/s at 48v for 1 amp it's 31W, at 1.4 amps it's about 34. As you can see it's diminishing returns so maybe a max of 60w for 3 amps? 36v at 1 amp is 25w, so with some rough estimates, if you push the meanwell to 58v you need maybe like 75w per motor which is 600w total. However this would be for sustained speeds at 1000mm/s if you put in a 200mm move with 100k acceleration you can see that it's sustained early on, but any move smaller than 5.5mm doesn't hit 1000mm/s and wouldn't use the full power. Which for a benchy is only hit on the walls I believe.

So what the hell am I rambling about? @deft egret and the wattage graph make a good point. Power depends on voltage and current, the stepper motors spend most of their time at a much lower voltage trying to overcome emf, as shown with the above screenshot. You don't need that much total amperage unless you have high voltage, and sustained very high speed. The capacitors can provide enough amperage for the spikes. In theory it could be beneficial to have enough amperage to provide to the motors at any given time, you may be able to get more performance out of the motors, by having all that current available to the stepper. Is the 600w enough? For most cases, more than enough. If you want to push past 1000mm/s with 8 motors at 3 amps you might want more available to really squeeze out the performance.

[obtuse field]

This is really great info

[dense elbow]

So we were all right I think. Yes in theory you for sure want enough power to run everything at the max amperage. Will you reach that? Not without some stupid high speeds. Which is the point @deft egret was making. Unless you're going for breaking records, parts, and pushing insane amps. You're not going to notice a difference and will have tons of headroom with the 600w.

[obtuse field]

That makes sense. Plus at some point like we said earlier the plastic parts won’t be able to handle it anymore

[dense elbow]

What does this mean for me? Well I say let's screw around and find out. I truly want to push this for records, I want to test these theories out. I want actual data on my exact machine. So I'm going to run dual 600w to experiment, because I have a problem like that. Do I recommend it? 99% of the time no, shits gonna break, but that's the fun part to me. It's only ever useful for records and pure maximum performance.

[obtuse field]

So I guess it comes down to either giving yourself the headroom with a bigger power supply and maybe doing all metal parts later on to chase the records or just buying the 600w and being content

I’m gonna try that random brand and see how it goes 🤣🤣🤣

[dense elbow]

Hahaha yolo

I also could be full of shit, happy to admit that I've proven I'm no expert, and default to anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

[obtuse field]

Facts worst case if it messes up I’ll buy a 600w and call it.

It’ll be fun to test it and see

I ordered my new belts, all the motors, and 5160T pro drivers last night 😎. Gonna order the rest today probably and hopefully start my build log sometime next week or the week after.

[dense elbow]

Stoked to see it come together! What are you printing the parts on? And what material

[obtuse field]

Probably my p1s or my sv08. My p1s usually does a really good job. I’ll be using ASA. I’m gonna do burnt titanium from ambrosia filament for the stepper towers and their dual color purple for the toolhead and frame braces probably 🤔. Both the colors on the page below.

https://west3d.com/products/ambrosia-dolos-color-shifting-asa-filament-of-the-gods-1kg-bambu-ams-friendly-cardboard-spools-premium-3d-printing-filament

[dense elbow]

Ooooooo

I might have to use that for my beta build parts

Hot damn

[obtuse field]

Do itttt I got the rolls and haven’t opened them but mannnnn they look so sick

[dense elbow]

Stoked to see how your parts come out

[obtuse field]

I’ll defintley be doing a build log with lots of pictures and progress stuff. I’m so hyped too. Especially after seeing your build come together.

If I have any filament leftover I may use some of it to redo my enderxy 🤣. I did yellow abs but now I want a cooler color

[dense elbow]

It's been an absolute blast to build

[obtuse field]

For your beta build are you gonna do from scratch and have another printer or re-frame your current build? I’m thinking of doing one from scratch or maybe the mini-merc

It’ll be awhile for me though. My wallet meets some time to recoup 🤣

[dense elbow]

I haven't really decided yet tbh

I'm honestly thinking of asking if I can get the plus frame

[obtuse field]

Understandable tbh. I think I want to do a mini printer next but after that who knows lol

[dense elbow]

Then do a 400x400 idex merc and keep my current one for speed

[obtuse field]

Is the plus frame not out yet? Is it only the pro one

[dense elbow]

They're both on the dllpdf

[obtuse field]

Oh yeah you sent me links for them lmao

[dense elbow]

I have a sentimental attachment to this frame though which I know is dumb. So idk

[obtuse field]

I thought about swapping my plate for the 400 one but I can’t justify the cost for the extra build volume. If I did it from scratch I definitely would

[obtuse field]

I feel it. It’s my first printer so I kinda feel the same way

[brittle cedar]

Same. I have a old wooden makerbot and I can't bring myself to strip it for parts, even though I know that it's just taking up space.

[dense elbow]

@boreal rose curious if you could read this post and the one following it and provide your thoughts, as someone who's pushing limits. We're talking about how big of a power supply is needed for 3 amp 8wd at 54ish watts

[thorn crown]

https://tenor.com/view/wesker-albert-albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil-4-gif-5143688443782660001

[dense elbow]

Holy sheet

3:14(watched the video back I started on the 3rd layer....

[thorn crown]

u can probs get sub 2m at that point with enough knowledge and learning

[dense elbow]

I've spent all day in the trenchs with tmc tuning, I know wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much about stepper motors now

[thorn crown]

what else have u done for speed?

[dense elbow]

54v

[thorn crown]

r u outrunning ur motors rn??

that shouldnt be...

[dense elbow]

what do you mean?

[thorn crown]

i would find it challenging to outrun 8wd on a well designed setup...
even on my taz (2wd on each axis) i have more to do before I outrun the hotend and def before motors

[dense elbow]

What do you mean by outrun?

[thorn crown]

rigidity, is, tmc, y axis redesign, sticfening, lw toolhead redesign, etc etc

[thorn crown]

the point where your gear is the limiting factor

[dense elbow]

Ohhh gotcha

I mean honestly I have made the frame as rigid as I think I can, I tuned the tmc's (think there is more room there still) everything is the absolutely lightest it can be, maybe I could loose the beacon for speed runs, and the fan for the heatbreak, everything is the best quality I could get(could get the 2.8 motors or 3 if they come out), 9mm, gt3 belts. Full heatsinks on every motor. I could maybe get up to 60v instead of 54, but other than that I am not sure what else to improve.

[thorn crown]

you shouldnt go past 48v on you standard controller board. 60v is headroom :p

[thorn crown]

kraken v2 motors are already out, so u can do that

are ur motors actually skipping? have you live tested the power output?

[dense elbow]

you can just hear em skipping

[thorn crown]

im surprised... @boreal rose whats ur input on this?

[dense elbow]

As in the motors skipping or the benchy time?

[thorn crown]

motors 🤔🤔

[dense elbow]

2:59, 3:03, 3:14

So right now it's the hotend.

CHT volcano should be here soon

I increased the amps on the motors and that's what got to those higher speeds

[obtuse field]

Heck yessss that’s so sweet! I need to get a .5 cht for speedboats I got a .4

Are you still gonna get the 2nd psu or just stick with the 600?

[dense elbow]

Thermal of 3:40
2.15 Amps
107k Accel
850 Speed
105 SCV
Cruise Ratio 10

[obtuse field]

That looks so sick

[dense elbow]

Already installed 🙂

[obtuse field]

Have you noticed a difference? I got all my printers moved today into the new house. Tomorrow’s the rest of my crap then hopefully I’ll get started on mine sooooon 😎. Gotta place one more order

[dense elbow]

Actually testing that right now

So the craziest thing happened... I slipped and fell right on my keyboard. Somehow this happened.

[dense elbow]

I think I might have cooked these motors a bit, they have a super high pitched whine now lol

[thorn crown]

been there

[dense elbow]

oh I am just dumb, forgot about the tmc changes I made for the speed runs lmao. Been a long day.

[muted nova]

@dense elbow i cooked my Honeybadger motors the other day. I just swapped to my ldo 2405s and metal stepper mounts and it's a huge difference. Those motors took a beating.

[dense elbow]

Did you push em past 2.5

[muted nova]

@dense elbow
No, it was 2a I think?

Thing is I forgot to resetthe idle shutoff so the motors sat energized with 2a and no active cooling for close to 8 hours lol

[dense elbow]

YIKES

Def cooked lol

Literally

[muted nova]

I won't make that mistake again lol

[dense elbow]

Benchy with authentic smoke

[deft egret]

The hibrid belt might be the weak point

Might need gt3 so it does not strech

The strech might cause delay between the awd and the hybrid and that might cause the layer shifts

[obtuse field]

Hmmmm so what you’re saying is I should go ahead and order more gt3 belts 😏

[deft egret]

Yes😏😂

Should I try to make the hybrid for 9mm belt?

[obtuse field]

I got 3M from fabreeko

I’m doing 6mm but Flight may want 9mm

[deft egret]

Well then some other time😂

[deft egret]

Maybe

[obtuse field]

I mean I can order some 9mm ones 👀🤣 I’ll use the 6mm to rebelt my enderxy. I think 3 meters would be enough it’s smol

Would there be a benefit to 9mm?

[deft egret]

What I am worried about is the printed parts not beeing strong enough

[deft egret]

Probably negligible

And the printed parts might suffer, so its unlikely to work

[obtuse field]

Ahhh yeah that’s true. Do you think the 6mm ones would be fine?

[deft egret]

Yes

[dense elbow]

I've run 150k at 1250 and the printed parts are still doing great

Pretty insane honestly

I ordered some gt3 6mm a bit ago too. You could see the vibration difference on the resonance tests

I also superglued the belts into the hybrid belt holder, the would slip at those super high speeds

Hasn't slipped since

Also update on the dual power supplies. I can't sustain high enough speeds to max out the 600w power supply. The max I got was 500w. However on the plus you might be able to hit those. But we're talking about 3A, 8wd, 1500mm/s + at a minimum of like 300mm moves or 200k+ acceleration to push past the 600w barrier. Which with the lrs rates for 150% in short bursts and the huge capacitors, means you'll never see those power draws realistically

I've got another sensor coming so I can actually graph the data digitally instead of just watching it

The only way I was able to get it that high is test speed macro but removing the small moves in the middle of the bed. So it was just doing the full bed size squares to hit max speed

[obtuse field]

Okay cool. I took the gamble on that random brand one so we’ll see how it goes 🤣. That makes sense I probably won’t ever hit it unless I swap to 3A motors for all 8. Maybe when the honey badger ones drop 🤔. That’s still insane

[dense elbow]

15min tpu benchy

This thing blows my mind

[obtuse field]

That looks so good! What sort of flow rates were you getting with tpu? I wonder how much faster a larger print would be 🤔

[dense elbow]

I got reliable extrusion up to 24

[obtuse field]

Thats wild. Did you see the 5 min tpu benchy? I think Vez3d did it on his vzbot

Edit: ima just leave this here…

https://youtu.be/FSz-7r_hfzA?si=Fdx3kxIVZ3hgJG8F

[dense elbow]

Damn!

[thorn crown]

The classic vz outro!! 🔥

[obtuse field]

I know you just ordered the krakens but I’m just gonna leave this here:

https://www.fabreeko.com/collections/recently-added/products/open-beta-nema-17-3a-rated-classified-steppers-by-honeybadger

I think im gonna pick up a set eventually and use my long shaft ones for hybrid later on if possible but for now I just want to get mine built lol

[dense elbow]

Those are the same ones I think just badged as honey badger

[hazy hatch]

No

[dense elbow]

Oh really?

[hazy hatch]

Custom

[obtuse field]

I think they’re a little different

[hazy hatch]

Turtles design

[dense elbow]

Ooo

[hazy hatch]

Better qc

Lower price

[obtuse field]

I want them but I literally just ordered my 4 motors for my AWD and they’re being delivered today. If I would’ve waited like 3 more days 🤣🤣

I’ll get next batch or when they fully release out of beta.

[hazy hatch]

I want them too but I feel bad for making ormanello order the custom krakens if im not buying

[dense elbow]

I wish they had internal temp sensors, but how are they so cheap

Yeah same

[hazy hatch]

Yeah im planning that too

[obtuse field]

I think just cause they’re in beta right now? Looks like normal price will be $55 ish?

[hazy hatch]

No pelikan case or markup

[dense elbow]

So we have any data on those vs the kraken v2

I thought the v2 was a totally new design that's not out yet

[deft egret]

the inductance is high

[obtuse field]

Plus I’d have to buy new pulleys and all that better to just get mine built first then upgrade later

[deft egret]

2.3mH

[hazy hatch]

They are

[dense elbow]

So it's possible they could put preform these? Just more expensive though

[hazy hatch]

Idk

[deft egret]

the higher the inductance the lower the speed

[hazy hatch]

Theese should be better

[hazy hatch]

Whats the inductance on the krakens vs honeybagers?

[deft egret]

1.2-2504, 1.6-krakens, 2.3-HB

and 0.7-ldo 2804

[dense elbow]

Well I ordered the last four in stock

Then I'll try them out against the kraken v2's when I get them

[hazy hatch]

Nice

[deft egret]

one sec, I posted the wrong graph

[dense elbow]

For how cheap they are I can use them on another build if the krakens are better

[hazy hatch]

Do u have one with 20t pulleys

[hazy hatch]

Yeah

[deft egret]

this

[dense elbow]

Can you run that at 54 volt

Want to see the difference

[deft egret]

the 2804 has less torque at the same amps

more volts more speed

[hazy hatch]

But vfa hell

Hard to tune

[deft egret]

yes, and high heat for the same torque

the 2804 have a lot of speed but low torque, heat and vfa`s

[hazy hatch]

Yeah

[dense elbow]

We have any data on the kraken V2

[hazy hatch]

Are u testing on v1 or v2

[deft egret]

it seems i tested for v2

v1 is the same as the HB

[hazy hatch]

Cant find the chart I had v1 vs v2

[deft egret]

so HB and kraken v1 have 2.3mH inductance

[obtuse field]

Ooooorrr hear me out. Use the krakens on AWD then use this for your AWD hybrid 👀👀

[hazy hatch]

Red v2 blue v1

V2

[dense elbow]

I was actually just thinking about that

[thorn crown]

turtles are different, so we need specs for those too

[deft egret]

blue v1

[hazy hatch]

Honeybadgers also have higher qc

[hazy hatch]

Fixed

[deft egret]

on paper they are the same as V1 kraken

but cheaper and better quality

[hazy hatch]

How would u get lower inductance?

[dense elbow]

Classified

[deft egret]

maybe different winding

thicker or thine wire, more or less turns

idk

less turns I guess

[hazy hatch]

But wouldnt that loose tq?

[deft egret]

yup

less torque more speed

[hazy hatch]

Also where did u get those graphs from?

[deft egret]

one sec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lftsMrksdTA&t=1115s&ab_channel=eddietheengineer

https://github.com/eddietheengineer/documentation/tree/master/stepper_motor/data

and for the motors that are not in the motor database, I put the values manually

[hazy hatch]

Oh so those arent reall world tests

[obtuse field]

No it’s all just theoretical based on the specs of the motors

[deft egret]

they are accurate enough, at least on my setup

the graph predicted that I can get 100mm/s 130k, and that was the limit on my setup

so within margin of error

[hazy hatch]

im getting like 650mms @ 80k iirc

2504s 2.45A and 55scv

24v

[muted nova]

I love the Dyno graphs lol

[deft egret]

If you know the weight of the moving mass you can use the graph to see what you would gain with 48V or diferent motors

on the graph I tested for the 8WD setup

[obtuse field]

What sort of cooling do you run for your motors? Just heat sinks or active cooling too?

[hazy hatch]

I think its like 180g

or more

[deft egret]

on mercury?

[hazy hatch]

heatsink on top and a 4025 sunon

also fmg

ye

[obtuse field]

Dope Ty

[deft egret]

I have 1024g for the total moving mass

[dense elbow]

Check out the hybrid chat @obtuse field

Working on a solution also

[hazy hatch]

didnt see it go above 70c yet

[hazy hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/big-oof-yikes-gif-15532766

[deft egret]

if you measure you will be surprised too

[obtuse field]

That looks sick

[deft egret]

the whole x-beam with joints and toolhead

[hazy hatch]

oh wait u included the Y too

[deft egret]

of course

[hazy hatch]

that weight was only for the toolhead

[deft egret]

that is 428g for me than

[hazy hatch]

but the y is like 50g with the lw gantry idk about the rail and x joints but the fmg x joints are 10g lighter total than printed

[deft egret]

for the graph you do the total weight divided by how many motors you have

[hazy hatch]

takeoff?

[deft egret]

it is more than you would expect

[deft egret]

no😅

just eva2.4

[hazy hatch]

Im expecting like 450-550g

[deft egret]

orbiter with toolboard and a dragon ace

[hazy hatch]

oof

vz cnc and vz hex

[deft egret]

I would say 700-800

aa

[hazy hatch]

oh wait I didnt include the rapido

[deft egret]

than 600

[hazy hatch]

yeah 500-650g imo

[deft egret]

if you are bored one day could you test?

[hazy hatch]

maybe

but I used a lot of loctite and cheap screws

[deft egret]

than, don't worry, we can get data from @dense elbow

This is my setup

is coming off soon

std6 is coming in a few days, and cpap is getting installed

[hazy hatch]

Mine

I have to install the goliath

[deft egret]

I still think its about 800g

at minimum

[hazy hatch]

what do u think is the heaviest part of it?

[deft egret]

the toolhead and rail

[hazy hatch]

what if I remove the belts lay it on its side and drop it on the scale🤔

[deft egret]

might work

if you get the tension of

[hazy hatch]

the toolhead is 173 without the printed parts and rapido

[deft egret]

I dont understand how, the motor alone is about 100g

40g for the hextruder

and 33g for the toolhead??

[hazy hatch]

ah yeah no motor too

[deft egret]

that is more accurate

93g for motor and 75 for rapido and toolhead board 15g you get 363g without the printed parts and fan

[hazy hatch]

ebb included

and fan too

[deft egret]

350 then

[hazy hatch]

Ooo I remembered incorrectly

[deft egret]

how is the toolhead only 40g??

[hazy hatch]

Idk lol

Btw hextrudort is 36g

[deft egret]

maybe its 60

[thorn crown]

how much w motor?

[deft egret]

36+ 86 for 17mm motor or 96 for 20mm motor

[thorn crown]

nema 14 pancake, correct?

[deft egret]

yes

i was wrong

ldo motor is the the same weight

strange

[hazy hatch]

Im planning on drilling holes in the front and back plates to loose some weight

[deft egret]

dont?

[deft egret]

why? you will lose a insignificant amount of weight

[hazy hatch]

For fun

Want to see how much weight it drops

[dense elbow]

Speed holes

[deft egret]

well its yours

[deft egret]

did you get the gt3 6mm belts?

when are the kraken motors arriving?

[dense elbow]

Yeah

Prob next week

[deft egret]

I will send you the new tensioner for gt3 then

strange, the gt2 belt I have is the same thickness as the gt3

guys! did you know this thing exists?

[muted nova]

Dang, that would make awd so much simpler.

[dense elbow]

GT6

[obtuse field]

What are these? 👀

[obtuse field]

Me tooooooo please lol mine are ordered

[muted nova]

@deft egret if you ran those you would not be able to use any smooth idlers though, but if those can handle the same as a regular gt2 belt those are sweet. Iv never seen those.

https://www.gates.com/in/en/power-transmission/synchronous-belts/rubber-synchronous-belts.p.9232-000000-000000.html

Belt capacity is equal to standard single-sided PowerGrip™ timing belts.

[thorn crown]

@deft egret Ive never seen it done before, so in my opinion, get rid of your smooth idlers, add double sheer support, shorten your brlts, and lets get to racing 😎

[deft egret]

I was not suggesting that its a good idea to use them, they might be expensive, I was just looking through gates products to find specs for gt2 and gt3 and this unicorn poped up as twin gt2, it looks wild🤣

I thought I'd share

[deft egret]

If you look at them, they are 10 strand glass fiber, that is weaker then the 14 strands I used for gt2, so its a down grade from even gt2 much less gt3 9mm

I looked though other belts and found one that I thought at first was a dual sided belt with different tooth specs, but it just had ribs not teeth on one side

[muted nova]

It does look wild. I find it useful for some personal projects. I didn't even know those existed that small.

[dense elbow]

Made some design changes

Fans come tomorrow, excited to try em out

Think I am going to call it arctic cube, since we have a lot of arctic circle restraunts out here lol

[dense elbow]

Fan is an enormous success, working on some changes for the mod, and then will post a formal writeup

Will work for any 40mm motor with 40x40x20 heatsinks

[dense elbow]

This is 30 min into a print running at 1.750 amps.

That's a 25C reduction, which in this case is literally HALF the temperature.

I'm redesigning the model though, trying to make it more sleek and reduce the amount of filament needed. Also working on making the fan grill a customized insert so people can put whatever they want.

Then I want to figure out something for the hybrid motors, they can't have as many heatsinks due to the bed and hybrid carriage, plus get cooked by the bed. So definitely room for improvement there.

[brittle cedar]

It may be worth trying it without the heat syncs. The forced convection can do a lot of cooling.

[dawn patio]

yo! @dense elbow how did you get the vzbot printhead to work with 9mm belts/

[dense elbow]

Just wrapped around the front pillar and used belt clamps

[dawn patio]

Wonderful!

Sigh of relief

did you get the mellow zerog head or just the vzbot head?

[dense elbow]

Mello zerog

[dawn patio]

damn, they sell the vzbot one here in aus, I wonder if its just the belt path difference

[dense elbow]

I bet they're very similar

Id ask in general I bet someone knows

[dawn patio]

found the pictures of both plates, left is the zerog and right is vzbot, vzbot has that extra hole on the right but the zerog just has cutouts in the middle to make it more lightweight

[deft egret]

If you look the holes a a little different, I would not risk it for 4g less weight

[dawn patio]

the less weight one is the zerog one

[dense elbow]

I think those are backwards

I thought mine looked like the right one

[dawn patio]

weird, on the ali page it shows the zerog one is the left one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006065205076.html

[dense elbow]

Hmmm maybe it did look like that

I'll check when I get home

[dawn patio]

but what would prevent it from working anyway really?

both would be top mount MGN12H

[dense elbow]

Yeah not at all

Both should be fine

[dawn patio]

They must've had like 3 versions, here's @hazy hatch's different again ahaha

[dense elbow]

That's what mine looks like

[dawn patio]

does it have these cutouts though or does it have the extra cutouts above that?

[hazy hatch]

Different belt attachment

[muted nova]

@dawn patio the zerog is mgn12, vzbot is mgn9, the zerog is taller and longer from front to back. The vzbot one and zero g also have different belt paths so they are not interchangeable at all. I think the only similar part is the dancing man fan mount and cpap support mount.

There are four versions of it. Vzbot, ZeroG, RatRig, and Hevort.

[dawn patio]

Doesn't the ratrig use MGN12?

I'm using 9mm belts and attaching them like @dense elbow

[muted nova]

I dunno about the ratrig tbh never looked into it.

[thorn crown]

Two things!
Firstly, gonna just plop these sexy things into here for you to look at 😱
https://discordapp.com/channels/747612067951018075/1241969023265148938

Secondly, this isnt the best idea. the Mercury toolhead is designed to use those belt slots for a simple reason: they align with the belt path
When your belts dont align with the belt path, as you move your toolhead back and forth, your belt tension changes. Try it. bring your toolhead close to one end of the rail, then to the middle. youll notice a bit of a change in resistance

[thorn crown]

The VZ bot version will not work with your mercury one.1
the vzbot uses a completely different setup and has belts on the back AND front
not only that, but offsets are different

[dawn patio]

Thanks! I appreciate it 😊 Il get the mellow CNC head

*mellow zero G CNC head

[dense elbow]

I'm sure that can make a small difference but honestly it's been printing since I built it with absolutely flawless prints, and broke the speed record, so it's def sufficient IMO.

Def printing those belt clips tho, much sexier

[thorn crown]

have you posted and gotten a confirmed submission?

[dense elbow]

Not yet, I have the classified motors coming Monday so was gonna wait because I know I can go faster.

Plus the CHT volcano came that I need to install

Speaking of which, @deft egret have you been able to start the 8mm shaft AWD? 😊

[thorn crown]

classified? under NDA?

[dense elbow]

Noooo the turtle honey badger "classified" motors

[thorn crown]

ah, you going beta testing?

[dense elbow]

Yeah, I have those coming and the kraken v2's

[thorn crown]

excited for kraken v2s 👀
precurssor said he had bad luck w them tho

[dense elbow]

Yeah was bummed to hear that

Hoping I get a good batch lol

[thorn crown]

btw, incase youd like it, Im designing 9mm belt mod for vz toolhead, so just an fyi

[dense elbow]

That I would love! Def want to do it properly

Just wanted to say it can work if needed!

[thorn crown]

in your head will be printing them out for me and testing

I dont have a cnc toolhead, just wanted to do it cuz I hear a lot of ppl want it

[dense elbow]

Oh I printed those actually

I found em posted

But then forgot

So I wrapped around and it worked great

Also gridfinity is amazing

[thorn crown]

I wanna start using gridfinity

[dense elbow]

I've been loving it so far

[deft egret]

You can ping me when you want them, they only take 20min

[dense elbow]

Motors got delayed to Friday so would like to print them Thursday if possible

[dawn patio]

😍 as in something that replaces the spacers or a new belt clip?

[thorn crown]

it replaces the standoff

[dawn patio]

Ok omg I'm so keen

Il buy the Zerog CNC head definitely then

[thorn crown]

dont count on it too much. Youll likely have to get this SLM metal printed and Im not yet sure if it works

though I do have a guy testing it out for me

@dense elbow actually, would you mind printing them out and fitting them onto your setup for testing?

[dawn patio]

Is it done In mm's or inches?

Reasonable 😊

@thorn crown also thank you very much! Even though it is for many people I appreciate it 😁

It's like $4 more for 4 of them so il have a spare set 😊

[thorn crown]

woah woah
print it out first.
that will cost a lot less
this was a complete rough attempt
I was looking more for feedback...

[dawn patio]

Ahahah that was just to get an idea of cost, Im not buying it yet

[thorn crown]

Alrighty. just making sure 😅

[pearl gull]

I did one like this already but I was concerned whether it was thick enough to hold the tension of a 9/10mm belt.. I manually adjusted the belt mounts in the stock brackets as well.. Maybe the SLM part will be stronger than the mellow part because the mellow aluminium is actually quit soft. I will be using a modified stand-off in mine with two m3 screws almost meeting in the middle of it.

[dawn patio]

What do you mean by meeting In the middle of it?

[pearl gull]

one screw fastening the stand-off to the top plate screwing into the threaded stand-off almost half way through and the other through the bottom plate and into the other end of the standoff the same distance.. That way the stand-off is also strengthened by the scews.. Does that make sense?

[dawn patio]

Yes, I understand, that makes sense, do you think that'd be stronger?

[pearl gull]

I do think so, yes, I can't bend an m3x5 stand-off by hand but I can sure bend the mellow belt mount bracket which I did when I was removing it from the jig I used to try to adjust it for the 10mm belts I am using on Merc 2.. and I was able to straighten it too.

[dawn patio]

I will await the feedback from others but ive got the printhead ordered so wel see

But there's 3 options for 9mm now so I'm happy with that

[hazy hatch]

Make it thicker

[dense elbow]

Sure thing

[dense elbow]

Alright, we're going to try 6mm gt3, 20t, with the 8mm HB Classified motors.

Because I'm too impatient to wait till Monday

You're lucky you have a monopoly for online shopping with insane delivery Amazon..... Otherwise I would.. ok let's be real... We all still use Amazon in the US

[thorn crown]

theyre not classified lol 🤫
Hector has them public on his channel!

its an open beta hehe

[dense elbow]

I just thought that was the model lol

[thorn crown]

ohhhh never noticed that detail

[dense elbow]

Also weighed all the x axis components

Which as @deft egret said, means there is less than 100grams per motor

Running the beefiest motors you can get (nema 17) that is

[thorn crown]

@dense elbow @deft egret out of curiousity, why dont you run ZeroG CNC or vz printed toolhead?

[dense elbow]

I do run that

[thorn crown]

ah, right. mb lol

[dense elbow]

You're good lol

I don't know how I could make it any lighter

[thorn crown]

go all aux cooling, remove the toolhead, and just leave the goliath on there
bowden configuration

[dense elbow]

I honestly prob don't need the heat break cooling tbh

At that point though you only get speed, you lose all the quality stuff

I mean if you were after benchys you could also get a tiny linear rail lol

[obtuse field]

water cooling?

i wouldnt want to mess with it but i know vz's have them

[thorn crown]

nah. watercooling is for 100c chambers

it adds too much weight

[obtuse field]

ahh okay

[thorn crown]

@obtuse field btw, what is your pfp?

[obtuse field]

i honestly cant even remember the name of it but it's the face of some character from a disney tv show i think? I pulled it from a meme that had it and just zoomed in lmao

Edit: my gf told me it's from lazy town and his name is Stingy lol

i need to change it lol will probably put it to a pic of my dog

[thorn crown]

you could set your pfp as your printer 🤔 ]

[obtuse field]

true once i get it built i probably will. it's all dissasembled and dirty lol

[dawn patio]

I don't think it'd add much, I'd say it reduce, the Vzbot config removes the heartbreak and bolts into the extruder with its waterblock right?

[thorn crown]

no. it keeps bots and heatbreak
it just adds watercooling

[dawn patio]

It removes the heatbreak from the hotend

That bolts into the extruder

The other version of the hotend has a waterblock which adds weight

[thorn crown]

its still there alright

its just now in the frame

in this instance, it might be worth it

[dawn patio]

yeah I guess the heatbreak tube is there but it removes the heatsink around it

But that said, @dense elbow does the hotend need a lot of cooling in your experience?

[brittle cedar]

I think modern Ti heatbreaks have reduced the need for cold end cooling drastically. I think most water cooling will be "heavy" because it's easier to contain the water with aluminum and bolts, than a "light" solution.

[dawn patio]

That does make sense, titanium being an absolute crapload less heat conductivity

*having

[dense elbow]

Honestly I don't think it needs the fan at all

[dense elbow]

So I have significantly less vibrations with 6mm belts somehow?

[obtuse field]

Oh really? How much less?

You’re still using 20T unless the 8mm shaft compared to 5mm makes that much of a difference 🤔

[dense elbow]

OH I lied

lol

same same

I little more on 6mm actually

[obtuse field]

Yeah y axis seems a little more at the higher hz.

Still those recommended numbers are insane lol

[dense elbow]

I can't get higher than 850 speed, but I can do 850 speed with 250k accel

Prob need those 30t pullys

So 20t, 4xHB Classified 2.75A, 4x2504ah 2A, 6mm belt = 850mm/250k

[dense elbow]

Definitely need 9mm belts, even with proper tension under crazy acceleration you can see it stretching

Going for a sub 3 the belts just can't hang

[obtuse field]

Damn. I mean I kinda figured I wouldn’t hit sub 3 on the plus anyways so 6mm will still be fine

I’ll do 9mm on my enderxy when I awd it 🤔

[tender belfry]

so 6mm is stil fine for a hybrid system?

[dense elbow]

For most people absolutely

Although I think it would show more benefits for plus

Since the belt paths are so long

[tender belfry]

I would take 9mm belt but my toolhead doesnt support it

[dense elbow]

For a pro unless you're chasing records, I don't think so.

I'm def gonna go back to 9mm though

[deft egret]

6mm is plenty for printing

This is just chasing records

[dense elbow]

For sure

[dawn patio]

I'm currently printing the hybrid parts for 6mm belts to add to the 9mm full metal gantry on a plus, so it'd be interesting to see if there is a benefit

[obtuse field]

Do you have a link to the cpap mount that you used? I found the box style one but I think I want to use one like yours where it just bolts to the extrusion.

[dense elbow]

https://github.com/VzBoT3D/Vz-Printhead-CNC/tree/main/STLs/Zerog Specific

[obtuse field]

Sorry I meant for the bottom mount to the 2020 extrusion

[dense elbow]

Oh!

[obtuse field]

Yeah all the ones I found were like a box enclosure for it and I may do that eventually I just wanna bolt it to the frame for now

[dense elbow]

https://github.com/VzBoT3D/Vz-Printhead-CNC/blob/main/STLs/CPAP turbo cooling system/STLs/CPAP 24v board mount.stl

Same repo just diff place

[dawn patio]

@dense elbow what became of the SCS fan with your build? Did you end up finding something that was similar that could Work?

[dense elbow]

I haven't yet, honestly with the CPAP I don't think its even needed

I run my cpap at 30% for pla with plenty of cooling

I will get around to it at some point, but not a priority atm

Priority for now is figuring out how to active cool the hybrid motors

Also switching back to 9mm belts with 30t pullys

[dawn patio]

Coppee heatsinks

*copper

NASA did it

[obtuse field]

Sweet thank you

[dense elbow]

Well what does nasa know about anything? /s

That is a pretty cool idea

Man actually that could be amazing for chambers

You could pump in cool outside air and then exhaust it super easily.

[dawn patio]

Yeah man imagine what the air blower is

Mellow Vzbot does have water blocks for steppers but it'd need a pump rad combo

*and res

[dense elbow]

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20170000214/downloads/20170000214.pdf

For other curious peeps

HOLY BALLS

[dawn patio]

Oh damn, yeah I saw ultem on craftcloud

https://www.printables.com/model/391495-stepper-motor-cooling-shroud-and-silencer

Tell me this a bad idea or is maybe clever?

For a 2504 as well

[dense elbow]

I looked at those actually, I didn't think they would be worth it for noise reduction, The shroud was nice but my testing showed that I got unbelivable cooling with the huge heatsinks and 80mm fans, so without space to worry about I went that direction

This is a nice solution for beta's though where you need to stay enclosed

Could work nicely for hybrid but I am going to chase after the nasa shroud design

[dawn patio]

Ahaha! I tried a reverse image search, start there

[dense elbow]

I think I am going to design a new system that uses a cpap and a manifold.

[dawn patio]

Yeah I guess that may have the static pressure to create enough cooling across them, maybe a channel enclosed along the sides like the NASA one but thin 8mm copper heatsinks to soak heat and CPAP to extract

[dense elbow]

Yeah, I am very intrigued, especially for high temp chambers

[dawn patio]

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrpg7i3

Copper is a lot better at conducting heat than aluminium

[dense elbow]

Yeah for sure

That could be way more effective

I am sure you could get the same if not better performance with 10mm copper vs 20mm alu

https://a.co/d/4KOYUkU

[dawn patio]

Yeah similar I'd say aluminium is 237 W/mK vs 401 for copper

[dense elbow]

ANother optionb

[dawn patio]

This would be better but yeah
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mK51UpH

[dense elbow]

Oh didn't even know they made those

[dawn patio]

Yeah, That's how the Vzbots run, they even have driver waterblocks lol

[dense elbow]

Good lord

Didn't know that

This is dangerous information

[dawn patio]

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrAcE6J

https://youtu.be/QwLACrPS-dU

That's where vez does it

He runs a loop and the radiator in the backing of his printer and loops in his Goliath, steppers, drivers and his first born son

[dense elbow]

https://tenor.com/view/danger-gif-15291718235185428481

My wallet rn

[dawn patio]

Goddamnit why did I tell you? Now with your uranium dealer money youl buy them and have them by tomorrow meanwhile I need to wait until next pay and I'm jealous

Harumph

[dense elbow]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-awkward-gif-20874314

[obtuse field]

Yeah vz’s being water cooled is super cool

Idk if I’d ever do water cooling but it’s so sick

[dense elbow]

You get a free beta tester!

I would need to move the electronics to a backpack for watercooling

Wouldn't want them underneath everything being water cooled lol

I am gonna go the air route first, see how that does

[tender belfry]

why not make a backpack for watercooling?

[dense elbow]

I still worry about leaking

So I would want to move everything out of the way

Lost a GPU to a pinleak hole once, so I am paranoid about it now

Luckily corsair compped it since it was their waterblock

After some fighting

[tender belfry]

Well you could do an air leak test before you put water in

[dense elbow]

Oh for sure, I just worry about over time. The pinhole leak started like a year after inital install. So I would just need to keep an eye on it. But still gets me worried lol

[dawn patio]

Yeah the leaks like that are very rare coming from someone that works in IT and prior to that PC stores

But I can understand the hesitancy, you could put a little moat around them ahaha

Make them castles

Actually that's not crazy

[dense elbow]

Funnily enough I do work for a bank, our z16 mainframe is fully liquid cooled, its sooooooooooooooooooooooooo cool.

All servers are starting to head that way it seems, just so much more efficient.

[dawn patio]

And by bank you mean federal reserve and by that you mean the printing press

[dense elbow]

You already know too much

What is your address? Asking for the drone, I mean friend.

[dawn patio]

Yeah I work at a government training institute and they have dumb money and the server room at the new campus has under floor cooling, imagine a cpap but it's the floor

[tender belfry]

My watercooling

[dawn patio]

I love it but it's confusing me

[dense elbow]

It is so desensitizing, our z16 was 10+ million. They're like oh we will take two, so we can have a back up.

[dawn patio]

It's so straight but also rainbow so also so gay (im gay I can say that)

[dense elbow]

Then pay over a million a year in support costs.

Just bonkers money

[dawn patio]

Yeah that's always a bad idea, I am literally paid as onsite support to avoid that very thing

That's the only reason why I had to learn 3d printing, to install them and how to use the software / install for the mark forged metal and the 3d scanner, I just have to learn things on the fly because they don't pay support

[dense elbow]

I would love that tbh, sounds exciting, but stressful af at the same time.

Everytime we have an issue, and are activly fixing it, high ups are like CALL THE VENDOR. Such a waste, but then again not my money so as long as my paycheck shows up, knock yourself out lol

[obtuse field]

i hate working with vendors

i have to all the time at work and they're always clueless with how to support their apps.

[dense elbow]

"Are you running the latest version?"
"Have you made any config changes from OOB?"

[dawn patio]

Yeah it's fun, since the training institute is like 10000 different areas theres alot

[dense elbow]

Yes, oh sorry can't help you, not supported

[dawn patio]

We have special government contracts that basically leave it to us

[obtuse field]

either that or they say the issue isn't on their side and it's something on our side. 99% of the time it's their issue lol

so frustrating

[dense elbow]

I had support call me once asking me a question, super cool dude, he was like look, you know this database for our app better than we do.

[obtuse field]

i love that lmao it's like oh? how much do you pay??

[dense elbow]

Exactly that, I am now a consultant for that vendor. lmao UNO REVERSE

[dawn patio]

Basically it's like polar opposites with in house IT vs MSP consultants, in house basically don't want to do anything but have to and get paid anyway regardless, consultants will overdo work because you trust them and then get more money

[dense elbow]

Corporate money is just unbelievable.

https://tenor.com/view/leonardo-dicaprio-maket-it-rain-money-rain-cash-counting-gif-5490558

JUST GET IT FIXED

You got it boss man

[dawn patio]

Yeah working In consultancy and now government, government are surprisingly super super strict on spending despite what taxpayers think

BUT when a politician comes in

"I promise X and X and X for my political party" cool thanks man, I guess that means more money for IT because the US want their subs here? Sure

[dense elbow]

Yeah gov is interesting.... Banks are weird too because they are by definition made of money, and in the US once you are "too big to fail" they stop caring about spending, as long as regulations are met, and stock holders are happy, the rest of the money is just fun coupons, it's wack tbh.

I can't complain too much though, it's given me a great life so far.

[dawn patio]

Lucky man ahaha, I get ok money and I love the 5 weeks paid leave but Itd be nice to have money to spend on this printer lol

Like a little extra

[obtuse field]

I'm to the point where i want my printers to pay for themselves, but my impulse control completely disagrees with that statement lol

[keen drift]

I have a UHP-1000-24 I'll donate to this cause if you need it, @dense elbow

I'm catching up on all these messages so I don't know how far back that was discussed. 😅

[dense elbow]

Haha not sure where you're at

[keen drift]

Me either anymore

[dense elbow]

There is a ton in here lol

[keen drift]

Either way, free PSU for you if you need it, I have 2... for some reason... 😆

[dense elbow]

I appreciate the offer, I think I am set for the time being! Thank you!

[dawn patio]

I am a single man charity

[dense elbow]

I have a design I am pretty stoked about, I am almost done designing an enclosure that uses all the stock parts(with the addition of a few more extrusions, and has a "top hat" on a hinge you can open.

[obtuse field]

Scalable for the plus?? 👀

[dense elbow]

Should be

[obtuse field]

Hmmm I may just have to enclose mine then

I've been debating on getting a dedicated abs machine cause I've been having issues with that ASA I got. I think it was just cause it was a specialty filament though cause normal abs/ASA is a breeze. If I can just enclose the Merc though I'll use that for future projects

I have one of those creality tents but that's not as pretty as a built in enclosure

[dense elbow]

It has a ways to go, but the spirit is there I think. Only needs 4 2020x500mm, and 4 2020x200mm extrusions. Should scale without a problem to plus.

[obtuse field]

Looks great! Yeah doesn't seem too bad and looks like it'll get the job done

Whelp time to buy a CNC for the acrylic panels lolol

[dense elbow]

I am trying to use sizes you can buy

So its super easy

a couple more extrusions and you have a backpack too. It's practically begging for it.

That would finally give me enough room for everything too

Plus the water cooling

[thorn crown]

Id recommend BETA frame. its more rigid than the stock one and will help u improve speeds

[dense elbow]

NO

I REFUSE

Haha jk, beta frame is coming in plus size

I wanna do this for my pro, because why not, plus I really wanna keep the frame for sentimental reasons.

[thorn crown]

wait is the pro or plus the speedy one?

[dense elbow]

pro speedy, plus is going to be beta, idex.

Also going to be speedy lol

[thorn crown]

go beta on pro!!

it will help so much!!

[dense elbow]

Logically, that makes sense.

I really wanna try something diff though, something I worked on, using most of the OG frame though

That is the fun part for me

Engineering something new

Adding these extra extrusions will also stiffen up the frame a bunch too

[deft egret]

you can use all the parts from the 8wd for Idex

[dense elbow]

That is the plan!

[deft egret]

I should post it for Idex too

the only thing is you need a custom plate for eva toolhead

But I would go for a toolchanger more than Idex

[dense elbow]

I think IDEX will be stage 1

Tool changer stage 2

Alll the parts can get reused so can't hurt

IDEX is super easy to add in comparison IMO

[deft egret]

it should be

in theory

[thorn crown]

I was working on one a while back. Made a really cool toolhead and it worked to an extent, but I dropped the project to restart design. maybe I should come back to it

[thorn crown]

Theres already a mod for it

[obtuse field]

I'll abandon tool changing my sv08 to toolchange the merc lol or do it after.

[thorn crown]

https://discordapp.com/channels/747612067951018075/1234043739283132467/1243634182719017022

[dense elbow]

I am really liking this design

Keeps the electronics bay and adds a backpack

10 extra extrusions, which on amazon is $65

Also allows the front to slide forward 10mm, allows front hybrid bracing, and rear stepper motor support.

Prob will redeisgn again knowing me but I think there is alot of potential here

[dawn patio]

Is it crazy for me to want to have the electronics bay on drawer slides?

[thorn crown]

no. its a really cool idea

[dawn patio]

Aw thanks

Il do it

[thorn crown]

My Taz has a tiny electronics enclosure which I had the idea of doing that so I can stuff in more things while making maintanance easy

but I couldnt find any ones that were short enough and extended enough :(

[dawn patio]

It looks like I can get 500mm slides that would I guess slide out 500mm

[thorn crown]

https://tenor.com/view/doja-cat-star-wars-gif-25078126

[dawn patio]

Also has anyone used server delta fans for the enclosure? Like they're basically used in the same scenario with blade servers and then if it was modified could even utilise a 2u server rack on slides

[thorn crown]

yes

[brittle cedar]

You may need two separate drag chains. Thermistors and i2c wires do not like running next heater bed wires.

[thorn crown]

really? I knew about i2c/ general data transfer but not thermistor. why so?

[muted nova]

@thorn crown some thermistors are very sensitive to electrical noise.

[thorn crown]

interesting. I new knew

[dense elbow]

Who's design is this?

[thorn crown]

me

[dense elbow]

Oo

Using beta?

[thorn crown]

no

I made it in the early stages of BETA since I wanted my electronics to be in the back

and theres more room

[dense elbow]

Plus or pro

I like it

[thorn crown]

I still need to do a bunch of stuff to get it working tho

[thorn crown]

plus. I wont be sharing the design unfortunately

[dense elbow]

No worries, was just curious. I'm super close on my design.

Pretty stoked

[thorn crown]

just remember. rigidity is the most important

[dense elbow]

Basically making a vzbot, merc hybrid

Lol

Also

Hear me out

Belted Hydra

[deft egret]

@dense elbow double shear hybrid?

do you have 695 bearings around?

[muted nova]

@thorn crown it reminds me of 247 printings v0

[dense elbow]

I will tomorrow

[muted nova]

@dense elbow i tried for a very long time to come up with a belted z. I hate leadscrews but it's quite a challenge to overcome.

[dense elbow]

https://github.com/3DPrintingMods/VoronTrident-BeltedZ

I saw this and it got me curious

[muted nova]

So are you going to adapt that to Hydra or just use that then?

[dense elbow]

I would adapt hydra

[deft egret]

dont you have them front the old stepper towers?

[dense elbow]

Oh!

Duh

Yeah

[deft egret]

I have the rear done

[dense elbow]

ooooo

[deft egret]

front done

[dense elbow]

oooooo

I like

[deft egret]

you will need 6 m3x30 for front, 6 m3x25 for rear and the 4 bearings

[dense elbow]

So. Much. ROOM

[deft egret]

the power supplys and ssr in the bottom and the rest in the back

[dense elbow]

Exactly my thoughts

With proper cable routing and DIN cable routes

[deft egret]

yus

[obtuse field]

that'd look so clean

[brittle cedar]

Most of the thermistors change resistance per degree temp. So they are measured by running power through them and measuring the voltage drop from the thermistor. For an example where it maters we can look at a 100k thermistor. At room temp 1°C changes the resistance from 100kΩ to 96kΩ but at 100°C 1° changes 6.81kΩ to 6.61kΩ. So at high temps it gets harder to measure, so electrical noise can mess the signal up. The caveats are heater beds heat so slowly you can average the noise out(hot ends less so). It takes a big source to make interference (like a 20A bed heater turning on and off)

[dense elbow]

3mm or 6mm acrylic?

[deft egret]

3mm should be fine

the ones on the beta frame are 3mm

[dense elbow]

coolio

[dense elbow]

Alright, this is using standard sizes I could find on amazon for the acrylic, so only 4 cuts are needed, one sheet in half, another horizontal at 4in, then cnc for the top and bottom of merc OG electronics enclosure.

I know those gaps need some love, which are the parts I am designing now 🙂

Although I do have a cnc, I wanna try and make it as easy as possible if others want to do the same 🙂

[dense elbow]

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

We going all out on water cooling

[deft egret]

there is no other way

[dense elbow]

240mm raditior, 10 way mainfolds, control valves for each lane, watercooled extruder to save some more weight, temp sensors for input and output, all the goods.

[deft egret]

sounds like a new money pit

[dense elbow]

Always!

[thorn crown]

wc goliath? 👀

[deft egret]

yes, and motor cooling

[dense elbow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQWJcGSK3H8

Oh wait

Not that one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgZStm_AFXQ&t=257s

This one

[dawn patio]

Belted like the Vzbot setup? Or without lead screws?

Ooh! Double shear!

[dense elbow]

Without lead screws

[dawn patio]

Interesting, also when you get the radiator if it's gonna be 240mm make sure that the metals are the same ie. Aluminium with aluminium or copper to copper, otherwise you may or will likely have galvanic corrosion

You may also be fine with a single 120 tbh, or a thicker 120 rad

[dense elbow]

Good call! Got aluminum everything to keep it simple.

[dawn patio]

And just make sure you have the right fittings and inlet size, I think they utilise thinner diameter tubes and M5 for fitting threads

Also if you have a wife/husband, tell them I'm sorry 😆

Now I just need to see if there's enough clearance for me to add double shear to the hybrid steppers using all metal gantry

[dense elbow]

Yeah 6mm for the motors and extruder, running 3/8 between pump,res,rad, manifold, then 6mm everywhere else.

Plan is Res G1/4-3/8 -> Pump G1/4-3/8 -> Rad G1/4-3/8 -> 10 Way Manifold G1/2(inlet is huge, same pipe though)-3/8 -> Ball Valve Per Motor G1/4-6mm -> Motors M5- 6mm -> Second 10 Way Manifold G1/4-6mm -> G1/2-3/8 Res

Does that make sense

[dense elbow]

She's more or less immune at this point lmao

[brittle cedar]

I would run regular PC coolant and it should mater a lot less what the loop is made of

[dense elbow]

Got Corsair Coolant

I almost went full Corsair because I am a hoe for Corsair

Those prices though for a printer cooling loop lol

[brittle cedar]

Was looking at thermaltake but they want $40 for turquoise

[dense elbow]

I saw vez used it too so I was like scoreeeee

[dawn patio]

They do have mellow kits too for rad res pumps

[muted nova]

@dense elbow for my watercooling setup I plan to do 12mm from pump to manifold, 4mm id to motors, 2.5mm id to hotend, then from return manifold do 12mm to the rad, then 12mm to pump. Dunno if thats optimal but it should work. Even if I gotta bump the in and out to 16mm. The 2.5mm id hose running to my steppers currently do a good job of getting the heat away, but I'm probably going to bump them to 4mm id. I might also switch to 4mm id for the hotend as well but everyone seems to be running the 2.5mm id to the goliath wc and it works fine.

[dense elbow]

Single handedly keeping Amazon in business

[dense elbow]

Anyone every tried a 3d printed water cooled heatsink?

Two weeks for motor cooler mounts has me itching to try something else lol

[weak charm]

No, I think it is pretty much a waste of plastic

The plastic isolates a lot I think, especially in the thickness needed to make it waterproof

[thorn crown]

most 3d printed objects arent waterproof, and most plastics are a lot less thermally conductive than aluminum or copper

[dense elbow]

That's what I assumed

BUT IM SO IMPATIENT

lol

[obtuse field]

could you cnc one?

[dense elbow]

Soo I'm gonna try something, I designed a water shroud where the water flows around the sides of the motor, with o rings on top and bottom, then made a catch can for leaks lol

Gonna try it because why not

[thorn crown]

one sec before u design this

try something like that. make sure that if you print in something like ABS, you make the walls watertight using acetone (even this wont make it 100% watertight, you should look into getting a material that is watertight), and also, make sure you make your infill 100%

[dense elbow]

That's the exact design I was referencing haha

@dawn patio showed that a while back and it's what started this whole thing

Frame mods mostly done, backpack is a go.

[dawn patio]

Yeah the gotdamng NASA patent, somewhere there is a guy on a discord I found that SLM printed a wrap around water block Il find

[thorn crown]

thats a patent?

[dawn patio]

@dense elbow

[dense elbow]

Is that your setup!?

[dawn patio]

lol I wish, its from the VZbot watercooling channel, looks like good inspiration though

They're basically talking about a similar setup to what you're wanting to do as we speak for that guy

[dense elbow]

Ooo

Manifolds are a perfect fit

[dawn patio]

I ike how this one runs the water all along the bottom, but its a really clean setup hey

[dense elbow]

That is a little too clean for my abilities and patience hahaha

Myabe one day

I love that setup though

[dense elbow]

Problem solved

lol

[obtuse field]

Amazon to the rescue again 😎

[thorn crown]

how much did those cost?

[dense elbow]

8 for the 2 pack

so 4 a piece

Honestly, might work better than the stepper ones becuase you can put them on the sides

I think that would extract more heat, but just a guess

[thorn crown]

mewants.

[dense elbow]

https://a.co/d/9CRaLqS

wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy cheaper

[thorn crown]

crap now yall are getting me into this territory 😂
idk if ZeroG is a bad influence for making me spend all my money or a good one for making me learn good stuff

[dense elbow]

yes

[thorn crown]

I need to lay off before I actually invest my money into this

[muted nova]

Yeahhhhh..... I added up what I have spent so far. It's a lot. A lot a lot.

[dense elbow]

Lets just say I could have bought a prusa 5 tool

[thorn crown]

hit me

[thorn crown]

https://tenor.com/view/rookie-numbers-gif-26135237

[muted nova]

Over 2000 just for the enclosed so far. I have the actual to the penny number written in my office at home lol

It adds up FAST

[thorn crown]

Im somewhere over $5k for this hobby

[muted nova]

Loool if I count all my other machines I'm well over 5000 as well haha

I like resin printing for the prints, I like fdm for the machines lol

[thorn crown]

aw dang Im not the highest impulse spender here. what a shame 😔

[dense elbow]

Told my wife it's cheaper than crack, I think

[muted nova]

@thorn crown it's not a competition hahaha. Sometimes I look back and think of all the other stuff I coulda done with that money lol

[thorn crown]

Im 17. Not much better i can do at this age 😂

[thorn crown]

and I didnt mean it as a competetion. it was more sarcastic hehe

[muted nova]

Damn, I'm old enough to be your Dad. Lol. When I was your age the rep rap project wasn't even a sparkle is someone's eye. I was blowing money on race cars (or what we thought we race cars)

[thorn crown]

Ive been designing printers since I was 12. its what got me into engineering and essentially started my life being a useful human to our society. thats why Im so obsessed with it

[muted nova]

I wish there was 3d printers back then. Big companies like Stratasys were the only ones. I saw a giant stratasys machine once in like 2012? It produced the most awful prints i have ever seen. It cost them 250,000 to buy. .

[dense elbow]

I am just a degenerate with a spending problem

[muted nova]

Imma full grown adult with too much money to spend apparently lol

In order of spending.

: RENT
: FOOD
: KIDS
: GF
: 3d printer
: 3d printer
: 3d printer
: motorcycle.

And star wars toys

[obtuse field]

I just realized I defintley could’ve if you factor in my other printers on top of my build… probably 2 5 tools 🤣

I keep telling myself this is the last printer (zerog) but I already want 2 more ☠️.

[dense elbow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/s/i57M7IE1is

@deft egret

Sooooo

[dense elbow]

I think I am going to mount all the valves on the side like so, would make a nice place to control any of the flows

I shouldn't need them on the return manifold for each line right? Just the distribution one?

[dense elbow]

I am actually thinking of two options, move all the cooling to the bottom and electronics to the back, or keep all the electronics in the bottom and keep the back to all coolling, which I am kinda leaning

www.creedthoughts.gov.www\creedthoughts

I already have everything wired , I think If I shift the power supplies that will give me plenty of room for everything

Plus then I can look at the controller from the front of the printer, which I love being able to do.

Only problem is that puts the fans for the power supplies directly under the water cooling stuff. So those will need to get moved.... Hmmmm

[deft egret]

If there is a cad for it I can port it to the mercury

[obtuse field]

their kickstarter is dropping soon. depending on the price i may do it lol

[dense elbow]

Alright decided on the backpack design

Actually super happy with how everything fits

It will let me really focus on cleaning up the electronics bay and making it look nice

Plus all leak points are away from the power supplies. Thinking of adding a catch can in this area with a water sensor that can trigger alerts.

Designed it so the "Top Hat" can be removed, thinking about putting it on a hinge too so you can lift the whole lid up to work on it or grab parts. Maybe with some lil shocks to help lift and hold it.

[dawn patio]

Remember that youl want to have you res above your pump if you don't already have a pump res combo in mind or if you tilt it

[dense elbow]

It's mounted under the res connected to the manifold directly

[dawn patio]

This could be a good setup too, from the maker bogans discord on their AWD fourbie build

And if you're interested @deft egret this could be good inspiration or to get ideas
https://github.com/MakerBogans/Fourbie

[thorn crown]

theyre having fun with 3d sketches lol

[dense elbow]

Going with organization this time.

[dense elbow]

Whelp ruined one of the honeybadgers trying to get the old pully off

idk wtf happened to that pully put it welded to the shaft

Trying to hammer it off, it pulled the shaft out of the motor

Going to try a hybrid setup now, 3a on the back, with the 2504 on the front, maybe that will speed? lol

[dense elbow]

Whelp not really happy with how it all turned out. Not enough space for the fittings. I honestly don't think I need valves for each one after thinking about it more. Also I can run 3 40x40 cooling plates on each motor, on the sides which should suck out more heat, and is magnitudes cheaper. (Even though I already ordered the plates)

So going to go back to the drawing board for this one

[dawn patio]

It looks great, I kinda want to do a backpack now, do you have the cad file for your backpack?

[dense elbow]

Are you running a plus or pro? I can't remember

Got everything wired back up

Definitely happier with the extra room and wiring

Going to finish cleaning up the wiring and testing everything, then on to water-cooling again

[dawn patio]

Plus, it'd be different but I can adapt it

[dense elbow]

Basically all you need to do is extend the 4 front to back extrusions. So I went from 410mm to 500mm.

[dawn patio]

Also where did you get those corner braces?

[dense elbow]

Amazon

[dawn patio]

What be the listing? I can see the little ones but those are bigger

[dense elbow]

That's the answer for almost everything for me lol

Lemme geab

[dawn patio]

Ahhh, gotcha, could be an excuse to get new extrusions too, they're so cheap here, one plus of Perth, we have a local supplier

[dense elbow]

https://a.co/d/7BoGJ1p

Yeah I just extended those, and then actually used the extrusions I replaced for the top hat design

Worked out really nice.

Super super happy with it

[dawn patio]

I mean these things

[dense elbow]

Oooooo

https://a.co/d/276n5qQ

[dawn patio]

Wow those are expensive in Australia, basically $5.7 each

[dawn patio]

I found these for $2.15 each though, Il give em a shot

[obtuse field]

So this looks different than before. Did you switch how the power switch was wired up? Gonna be wiring mine all up today hopefully so just trying to make sure I get everything right xD

[dense elbow]

Yeah! I got these din power distributers

Then the same for 24v and 54v

Much cleaner

[obtuse field]

Amazon link? 👀👀👀. I may as well wait a day or two and use these 🤔

Yeah that looks much cleaner. I think I’m gonna do 3 din rails in the bottom with a staggered approach for running cables currently.

The power inlet is still wired directly to the psu’s input then daisy chained right?

edit I think that’s the first pic lol I’m starting to get it now. My brain is moving slow this morning

[dense elbow]

Not anymore, it goes straight that block now. Then there are individual outputs to each power supply

Plus the bed

[obtuse field]

So power switch -> block -> input terminals on the psu’s

Then psu output -> block -> each board respectively

[dense elbow]

https://a.co/d/gCLR7Mh

Yup!

https://a.co/d/8i52B44

[obtuse field]

Sweet thank you!

[deft egret]

Tell me how the new towers fit

[obtuse field]

One day shipping is so nice 🤣

[deft egret]

When you get to it

[dense elbow]

"So dangerous

[obtuse field]

Facts 🤣