Full Metal Gantry

[blissful creek]

but u wont find that.

alsoo u dont need it.

[hushed onyx]

Bought piles of lucky abec3 and they are too good for me and my projects.

[orchid marsh]

Those look pretty! LIKE JADE

The Asian in me needs them!

[orchid marsh]

Since when is it about what we need 👀

[blissful creek]

Pretty sure abev 9 isn't made our size by real bearing comoanys

[shut pewter]

Also not to many 608s are flanged which is what is needed here

So while 608s are a skateboard size, f608 are not

[humble fulcrum]

Yeah that's what I found too, looks like NSK does them though

[orchid marsh]

NSK group buy time?

[broken venture]

Best I could find is ABEC3 for F608s

[humble fulcrum]

F *aye G F608-2RSR and NSK F608DDU but hard to find

Yeah so far all that's stocked is the enduro abec 3 F608 same as you

I'll call statewide bearings Monday and see what they can get

[broken venture]

Now if only they came in hybrid ceramics

[blissful creek]

We don't need ceramics.

[broken venture]

Need no, want yes

They dont piss grease everywhere when they start wearing down

[verbal burrow]

I do

[pallid quest]

https://plaig.com.au/product/8x22x7mm-flanged-bearing-metal-shielded-f608zz/?v=8bcc25c96aa5

I have these, them seem alright.

[woven sand]

I also ended up getting F608zz from ali (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32900626732.html) They also seem alright.

[silver aurora]

Rule of thumb: don't go to Ali if you want genuine nsk.

Also, misumi should have genuine.

[pallid quest]

Even some vendors that aren’t buying direct end up with fakes and don’t know it too.

[wintry marsh]

I had to go local to get true NSK bearings. Got some f608zz and they seem legit.

[swift rapids]

I can't confirm these are actually ABEC-7 but these are what I ordered.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq3Wezd

[blissful creek]

100000% they arent

[swift rapids]

I figured, but for what they're doing they'll be fine

[pallid quest]

Abec 7 but the 5mm hole you wanted in the middle will be 4.8mm cause we put all the precision into the bearings and grooves.

[humble fulcrum]

enduro looks like the only abec 3 one, hard to find even then

[raven plume]

Any idea if Fushibearings makes good bearings?

[humble fulcrum]

I bought them too so Id like to know too

[hushed onyx]

Pretty sure good bearings companies have to have three letter names.

[spark gate]

Fushi bearings are not that bad
Like obviously not the best there is to exist
But totally sufficient

[raven plume]

fair

[raven plume]

ok good to know!

[ocean yoke]

Japanese ones have up to 5 letters as I understand

[hushed onyx]

I was just making a joke about SKF/FAG/NSK/NTN all being 3 letters. Sorry if looked like advice. Timken is also top notch.

[pallid quest]

Forgot IKO

[shut pewter]

EZO

[orchid marsh]

NSK BOIS

[humble fulcrum]

Sweet, so I can get NSK 608s locally but not flanged @shut pewter for the 8mm shafts, do we absolutely need them to be flanged?

[ocean yoke]

Flanged bearing are used to make idlers, the flange itself is important

[spark gate]

The flange is used to hold the double shear support bearings in place

[spark gate]

608, not 695

[verbal burrow]

yea if u get non-flange bearings they sit in the plastic, right?

[spark gate]

Different sized bearings iirc

[verbal burrow]

698-RS, F608-2RS

[humble fulcrum]

Am I missing something? In the front idler towers the BOM doesn't include idlers in the BOM

[shut pewter]

Look at the cad

They just use flange stacks like the stock ones

[humble fulcrum]

Ohhhh! Of course, duh, now I see it

[tender token]

Finally finished! Those standoff took 7 weeks to deliver ughhh

[amber cobalt]

Those look amazing.

[tender token]

Thanks! Now find the time to install them lol

[frank obsidian]

Mine's better

[spark gate]

I still haven't got the painted pieces back😭

[humble fulcrum]

I see you have EVA?

[frank obsidian]

Vz cnc

[humble fulcrum]

ahhh

[frank obsidian]

It looks chonkier cuz im using a 3010 instead of 2510

[heady solar]

and 2 leadscrews to support on the front? 👀

https://tenor.com/view/ok-i-like-it-picasso-gif-25278181

[frank obsidian]

Poor mans hydra

Dont recomend it if u want to get rid of side to side play

[humble fulcrum]

Im working on a Metal version of EVA 3, metal top and bottom plate, metal hotend mount, metal standoffs but still supported by some of the original EVA structure so you can still use all or most of the EVA 3 parts, back part should be universal being the stock back with spacers that would run through the body, im absolute sh1te with modelling but it works and the metal parts are flat so can be easily laser cut and countersunk instead of costly CNC

[heady solar]

get vz cnc 😌

[humble fulcrum]

nah, $110

[frank obsidian]

Nah

[humble fulcrum]

also I am kinda trying to adapt EVA 3

[frank obsidian]

Cad a super lw slm toolhead

O wait I have an idea

[humble fulcrum]

I basically did

go

but first

[frank obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/appu-appurajosh-gif-21480180

[plucky geyser]

Does VZ CNC support 9mm belts?

[humble fulcrum]

oops heres with the standoffs

the standoffs could be placeholders to be honest but really if it was the textured standoffs it could work better, 6 and 9mm belts and I could simply put thicker printed spaces up to the belts

[blissful creek]

No

[plucky geyser]

Damn. No metal tool head for me then lol

[blissful creek]

There's front mounted 1s

[humble fulcrum]

my friend

I am onto it somewhat

this is top mounted and would support 9mm

[blissful creek]

Glue?

Slm without any of the oomph that it offers

[humble fulcrum]

nope, just doing a new printhead, adapting a plate onto EVA 3 and really itd just be designing the standoffs for the belts that im doing atm

[frank obsidian]

Tell me about the oomph of slm plz

What tolerances u design with and stuff

[blissful creek]

my cads all posted with that

[frank obsidian]

Ill check that out

[shut pewter]

Pros being that you can design complex geometry that cannot be machined, and have mage at a reasonable cost. Biggest con i have seen is you cannot get super flat surfaces. So some areas need post process finishing. But most can be done with very basic tools.

[shut pewter]

That toolhead looks completely wrong for mercury.

[humble fulcrum]

in what way?

it's basically the EVA 3 with vzbot cnc top and bottom

[shut pewter]

Stock eva 3 does not work for the mercury

[humble fulcrum]

MGN12h top mount

it's really just because the back is stock, that is mostly cosmetic, the structure would be standoffs

[blissful creek]

the cpap outlet is also not goood.

[humble fulcrum]

Mock up, I just added whatever was there

[spark gate]

Have you looked at the new RatRig toolhead
It's partially metal
Night be a good baseline

[humble fulcrum]

yeah the original file was from a ratrig head

[frank obsidian]

@humble fulcrum dont show toolhead cad around burgo or youll get roasted😂

[humble fulcrum]

@blissful creek tell me, what could I use for belt standoffs to allow for 9mm?

either way it's really just a proof of concept that with 2 plates top and bottom like the vzbot printhead you can make a lot work

Im getting the hotend mount, top and bottom pieces laser cut and have litttttttle idea of how it would mount aside from EVA 34m1 but it happenin

[frank obsidian]

Here we go

Look at his takeoff

[humble fulcrum]

already seen it, not wanting to spend that money

[blissful creek]

ur slm parts gonna cost alotttt more.

[spark gate]

He gave me very valuable feedback on mine

[frank obsidian]

Yeah

[blissful creek]

shhhh

dont let people know I help others.

[frank obsidian]

He has his ways of feedback

[blissful creek]

it means they want me to help moore and I aint got time foor all dat because I go too far out my way normally 🤣

[humble fulcrum]

but sensei please

i am youngling

[frank obsidian]

Not young enough for burgo🤣🤣

[shut pewter]

Takeoff itself is cheap

It's chube that makes it $$$

[blissful creek]

take what u got and throw it all away. Top mounted rail is inherently bad for the way the merc mounts its belts.

[frank obsidian]

Isnt takeoff compatible with goliath too?

[blissful creek]

yes.

just need a guinea pig to see if it works fine 🤣

idk if fanless is ok yet.

[shut pewter]

I don't know if the goliath setup has ban tested yet

[frank obsidian]

Send me a takeoff and ill test it

[shut pewter]

Order one yourself 🤣

[blissful creek]

front mount

[frank obsidian]

My goliath is still sitting on the shelf

[blissful creek]

top mount. brown aka center of effort is closer to the rail yes. but its got more inherent lever.

u also need to create a box around the toolhead for any sense of rigidity.

[frank obsidian]

Free is cheaper

Lol

[shut pewter]

I paid for mine

[blissful creek]

this isn't even thinking of center of mass. U have alot worse there.

u NEED cpap for top mount to make sense.

[shut pewter]

And will be ordering another soonish, a remixed takeoff

[humble fulcrum]

Hmm, do you have tests comparing front vs top for this?

[shut pewter]

It's a leverage thing

[blissful creek]

yes.

[shut pewter]

Top mount is top heavy

[broken venture]

And just heavy

[shut pewter]

So all your moves are putting a flex motion against the rail

[humble fulcrum]

Can I see? How much did your slm takeoff cost? I do actually have the goliath

[frank obsidian]

👀

[shut pewter]

Boost issue at higher speeds with more weight

[frank obsidian]

I dont want anything other than cpap

[broken venture]

Id need a normal gantry 😭

[shut pewter]

Takeoff is around $50-80 if you tap it yourself

[frank obsidian]

Nice

Much cheaper than I thought

Maybe

[blissful creek]

yea yea ur 1 the few people who sees gains from lightweight gantrys since u speed benchy instead of regular printing always.

[frank obsidian]

Maybeee

[shut pewter]

It costs less than a good extruder

[frank obsidian]

Yeah

[broken venture]

I print normally too

[shut pewter]

Super lightweight does see faster speeds without skips. But that's only of your going over 600mm/s

[blissful creek]

then drop the gantry.

[broken venture]

Chube I mean

XD

I got redflagged

[shut pewter]

He is to deep into the lightweight game to drop it lol. But once he breaks his mosquito he probably will

[broken venture]

Id keep the milled rail and swap the gantry

[frank obsidian]

what do u guys think I should do with the 4040 v0 sized printer + halo, croxy/corexy speed benchy/high temp

[broken venture]

Print 5 cent parts

Duh

[blissful creek]

the milled rails are done incorrectly.

drilled holes is better then the way they did.

ur linear rail is more happy.

[broken venture]

Im more than happy to try other things

This was easily available to try

I was on a weight issue then

Kinda went overboard

[blissful creek]

there is none lmao

[broken venture]

Well, a properly milled rail

[blissful creek]

there is none.

u needa get it custom

[broken venture]

Also need to test the round standoffs and see if they'll work for when someone eventually convinces me to do 9mm

But also need to test my removable heater wire splices coming in to ditch the redneck crimps XD

Still lots to do

[fickle prawn]

I am doing a similar approach but I base the compatibility with the vz toolhead ducts. also I am focusing on getting a small filament cutter as part of the toolhead itself. I think the eva “style” it’s great for printed parts, but it’s inefficient if translated into a metal mount. I mean if you want to still use the hotend and extruter specific mounts

[fickle prawn]

why not use standoffs also in the back?

[wintry marsh]

So 1600 cad now? Lol

[wintry marsh]

What's incorrect about them?

[blissful creek]

they remove too much material it fucks with hertizian stresses

[wintry marsh]

@blissful creek what if you went all the way through?

[blissful creek]

even worse

[wintry marsh]

I had an idea to hollow a rail just like Fysetc did but I'd use a lathe. Put the rail in the tool holder and put the mill bit in the lathe.

I don't have access to a milling machine, and never ended up doing it but I'm happy I didn't waste my time with that then.

[fickle prawn]

and what about use a 2010 extrusion as gantry (somehow add pieces at the edges to allow mount in the xjoints)?

[blissful creek]

do a 2020 box tube. with stress concentrators its stronger.

[fickle prawn]

minimising the gantry weight the x and y get more and more similar to move, the bigger the printer more the gap between x and y. So using a lightweight gantry on a 5+ makes more sense (if it doesn’t impact the rigidity)

[blissful creek]

using a lightweight gantry always reduces rigidity.

[fickle prawn]

yeah, I mean, there should be a level where rigidity and weight meet up. but I guess the ultimate goal should be remove ghosting rather than speed

so if the gantry flexes, it will make for some other artefacts

[humble fulcrum]

It does, they're hidden ahah, but listening to @blissful creek I reckon he's some kinda wise guy and probably right about front mount, so Il look at takeoff, I just wanted rigidity really and can laser cut relatively cheaply

[humble fulcrum]

That's why Im starting off with an aluminium square tube, lighter, more rigid than extrusions

@blissful creek I am technically a guinea pig, but really I'd be happy to try it out

I and prime candidate

[humble fulcrum]

Ahhhh but I'd be using Hextrudort

[fickle prawn]

idk, the takeoff seems to occupy a lot of space. I’m building a 180x180 merc… I think he was critical about the lightweight gantry not top mounted rails in general (or?). I’m kind of too invested and also close to order the plates for the design I came up with, from xometry in EU it would be 80€ if I order the plates for 3 toolheads (weird pricing system that makes it cheaper for more, 1 set was 150€)

[blissful creek]

pretty sure loss less stock dimensions

I was critical of both

https://github.com/Kizime123/Random-3dp/tree/main/SLM Stress Concentrators Box Tube my GitHub for XY beam rigidity

[heady solar]

@blissful creek what time is it for you? arent you us based?

[blissful creek]

2am and Canada

@shut pewter gimme a spot to post my gates belts/ runice groupbuyyyyyyyy

[blissful creek]

I'm a big degenerate with my sleep schedule rn funny u say dis tbh

[fickle prawn]

intuitively I can’t see how the top mounted can be detrimental on rigid, but I’ll look into it. luckily I’ve also ordered the front mounted joints by mistake 😅

[blissful creek]

Worse center of mass placement. Meaning more inherent lever on the rail so it won't be as happy.

And the force transfer also is effected

Ur also tryna bend closer to the Y rails on a Merc.

[verbal burrow]

ur still everywhere

[humble fulcrum]

Wtf, so I search far and wide and I found these in an electronics store lol, 12 or 9mm though, could they work? For the M3X5X10mm spacers

[fickle prawn]

hmm, I'll load it in the cad and compare

[fickle prawn]

it does look quite compact for having 2 3028 fans, but vs a stock-ish design (also I haven't realized chube was so long and massive) it doesn't win (especially Z and front clearance)

and I even placed it higher that where it should be

[spark gate]

Basically with front mounted you have the pull from the belts closer to the carriage, thus less of a lever
Top mounted can have the hotend closer to the extrusion though so mass is closer to the extrusion

I'd say it's a tradeoff
Front mounted works better with worse rails though

[humble fulcrum]

What reckon about having M3X5X12 or 9 instead of 10? Could it work?

[spark gate]

For what?

The standoffs?
That wouldn't work, those are for the belt tensioners and need to be 10mm
You could use m3x5.5x10 or m3x6x10 but that would mean you'd have to redesign the printed parts and in this case the wall will be thin enough to show slight artifacts

[fickle prawn]

probably the overall weight of the toolhead matter for this consideration. for small/light it shouldn't be an issue either way

[humble fulcrum]

Yeah it's for the spacers that go into the printed part, I bought the 6mm ones and will redesign the part, the 5mm OD ones take forever to areive

[next wave]

9mm, i think there is something with X

[lavish sinew]

parts are ordered on aliexpress 🙂

[humble fulcrum]

I just received mine yesterday and waiting for rails, what printhead are you using?

[frank obsidian]

#1006521404964995195 propably

[sour rock]

time to start printing and sanding mine

[lavish sinew]

@shut pewter does this also work for the metal gantry?

[shut pewter]

running them in mine

I did have to modify the files a bit

for clearance

[lavish sinew]

ah okay thx

[rough stream]

Did you ever share those files?

[shut pewter]

no, I can if others are going to use them

not a very common spec

[rough stream]

Yeah I picked up a set when you mentioned them to me. 😅

[shut pewter]

I didnt do the cleanest cad on doing that

was quick panic fix lol

[rough stream]

As long as it works 😁

[digital lichen]

I also grabbed a set of them when I saw them mentioned lol

[shut pewter]

I'll have to clean up the cad and share those files

[meager laurel]

What are they used for in the gantry? In place of the bearings?

[snow oar]

In place of the flange/bearing stacks

[meager laurel]

👍

[humble fulcrum]

But is there an 8mm version?

[snow oar]

thats a good question that deserves an answer, with feedback noted here

[humble fulcrum]

I did find this but the outer flanges are quite wide?
https://core-electronics.com.au/dual-bearing-timing-belt-idler-pulley-8mm-bore-185mm-diameter-95mm-inside-width.html

[spark gate]

why would you need 8mm idlers?

[wintry marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/think-about-it-reece-simpson-kayode-ewumi-roll-safe-meme-gif-17305682

@spark gate probably for something 7-8 mm wide

[humble fulcrum]

Nvm I got mixed up between the 608 flanged and the idler towers

I have no image in my head of where the F608 bearings would go if I use 8mm shafts ahah

[spark gate]

metal plates

[humble fulcrum]

But where on metal plates?

[spark gate]

the whole in the 2 bottom plates

big center one

[wintry marsh]

Shove them flange up through the big hole in the two bottom stepper mounts.

[humble fulcrum]

Ahhhh, I see

Abec 5 but the brand name ummmm

[snow oar]

Flange goes on center plate side

[humble fulcrum]

Awesome! Thanks!

[lavish sinew]

can I use the old motor on the metal gantry

[snow oar]

Yes you just won’t have double shear

[lavish sinew]

what motors do I need for double shear?

[humble fulcrum]

LDO 2504 55MM?

[snow oar]

Yeah 55mm shaft

You can get 5mm diameter shaft which is standard or 8mm diameter shaft which beefs it up

[wintry marsh]

8mm shaft is king, then you would not even need double sheer.

[lavish sinew]

hmm I wonder where I can buy that in the EU

[verbal burrow]

3dkatten has LDO 2504 s8 55’s

[lavish sinew]

OMG almost 40 euros for 1 motor

[fickle prawn]

yep, sob

[verbal burrow]

Now THATS the sound of a happy customer!

[fickle prawn]

But I’d rather spend 80€ for 2 2504 than spend 100€ on the beta krakens. I’ve heard mixed feedback about them. and the HB motors will be around here later next year, if ever

I’d like to have the turtle branded ones though…

[verbal burrow]

yeah those hb 3004's are my next stepper buy

[snow oar]

nema 23?

[heady solar]

check Hectors channel 🤫

[snow oar]

oh those right

[lavish sinew]

@shut pewter what stepper towers files do I need to print if I have the fabreeko motors I cant find the specs of the motors on their site

[spark gate]

Stepper tower printed parts are not dependent on motors

If you care about the double shear
That depends on shaft length

[lavish sinew]

so do I need to print all of them?

[spark gate]

What exactly do you plan on doing?

[lavish sinew]

well right now I only have the fabreeko motors

[spark gate]

Also which honey badgers you have
2504 or 3004?

[lavish sinew]

2504

[spark gate]

They have a 25mm shaft
So no double shear

Just print the normal files

[spark gate]

Do you plan on using a 625 bearing?

[lavish sinew]

F695RS from the BOM

[spark gate]

Do you plan on using 625 bearings in the stepper towers?

If not, you don't need those files
Same goes for the other bearings

The files with bearing names behind them are needed if you use those bearings for double shear support

[lavish sinew]

ok thx

@spark gate same print settings from zero G right?

[spark gate]

If not stated otherwise
Yes

[humble fulcrum]

I must be missing something, I haven't received all my parts yet but have some spacers and the F695, how does the 9mm belt go onto the idler towers with the F695s if the F695s are much less than the width of the belt when combined?

[snow oar]

Not being rude but checking the cad will give you the answers you want

[spark gate]

you also need normal 695 bearings

basically 2x f695 + 1x 695 = 10mm

[humble fulcrum]

Ahhhhhhhhh

Hhh

[humble fulcrum]

Could this be a good alternative? It's prob fine with the 3 bearings but still
https://shapeshop.com.au/belts-pulleys/52-idler-pulley.html?srsltid=AfmBOor77XJgSSlLPA0lPO3hXNdlUlAhYSgcjdSYtu_pWL56uGOFQ36d

They have the 9mm belt version there too

[shut pewter]

No

[spark gate]

The RatRig heavy duty idlers should work
Normal idlers might not be that happy with the forces
(Well it depends on bearing quality but bigger bearings are easier to get good)

[humble fulcrum]

No worries, thanks!

[spark gate]

Just get some normal 695 bearings
That's how it's intended to be

[humble fulcrum]

Yeah they're in the mail atm, nearly here

[humble fulcrum]

For printing spacers, any special considerations for filament? I don't have a printer that can do ASA so Id be printing somewhere local so I saw PC could be an option

Alternatively to ASA that is from a local printing service

[snow oar]

Stick with the asa

[heady solar]

if your printers hotend can heat up to 260 and your bed can heat up to 110, you can print it 😄

[humble fulcrum]

I absolutely do not want to deal with the stress of buying a roll of ASA and having it peel without an enclosure ahaha

But soon my anycubic predator will have an enclosure just not yet

[snow oar]

Get a big cardboard box temporarily

[humble fulcrum]

I simply cannot get a box that is as tall as the predator ahaha

[snow oar]

Solid sheet of corrugated on two back sides with a tape hinge

Probably about the same cost as local service?

[humble fulcrum]

Good idea but nah, yeah it'd cost just as much to print locally and I'm doing an enclosure soon for it anyway after the merc

This printer is just a big ol bast*rd

It too has all metal parts , CNC effector and fan/hotend mount

[pallid quest]

https://siddament.com.au/products/powder-5g-dispenser-bottle?_pos=1&_sid=6085f7d5e&_ss=r

this can help with bed adhesion

[lavish sinew]

@shut pewter do you also have a 5mm design for the towers?

[spark gate]

5mm in what way?

[lavish sinew]

well some of us that bought the extrusion from DOLD the Groove width is 5mm

[spark gate]

that specification is important XD
just open them in cad and make the front pegs smaller

[shut pewter]

only 6mm, but easy for someone to mod that in cad

[lavish sinew]

trying never used cad before

okay I have no idea how to do it

[humble fulcrum]

You could try meshmixer, it's a fair bit easier but less use cases

[humble fulcrum]

Ok so I'm at the stage of countersinking and I'm definitely not spending $200 on a press for a single job so maybe I need to cut out a section of the spacers for the screw heads

[heady solar]

you can get a countersinking bit

[humble fulcrum]

Hmm, that could work, how do I keep it straight?

[heady solar]

theres no real good way tbh

[humble fulcrum]

What size but aside from 90 degree?

[pallid quest]

You need to countersink too, screws on the bottom won’t work if not under the face height. Especially on the front towers and the bottom plates of the x joints.

[humble fulcrum]

Yeah I ended up getting an assortment of bits, I have a whole other set of cut pieces to practice on with a regular drill, not that I want to 😫 Ive never had the need to countersink with any decent degree of accuracy

[strange heron]

Goldy do you mean this file? I have change it to 5mm.

[hushed onyx]

You can find or print a circle suck that when you sharpy inside of it, the sharpy circle is the diameter you want the countersink (usualy slightly larger than the head). Then when you countersinking you only have to worry about angle not depth. Test fit the screw for flushness as much as you need. You can always go deeper, so sneak up on the first one. They also have silly jigs that strap to you drill motor if your fear is greater than AUmazon shipping time.

[humble fulcrum]

That would be perfect, thanks! Il do that

[humble fulcrum]

It's working lol, thanks to my relatively straight hand, do they need to be flush?

[pallid quest]

Best to test with a screw and you want it 100% flush or sitting just under a little.

[lavish sinew]

Oh thx I will print when I'm back from work

[humble fulcrum]

Nearly done but I'm quite proud of it seeing as it was eyeballed

[humble fulcrum]

For the stls that are effectively just cylindrical spacers, can a metal spacer substitute them or are they required?

[spark gate]

Proper length metal spacer should work

[humble fulcrum]

What infill/walls for the printed parts?

[raven plume]

Zero G/Voron Settings, so 4 Walls and 40% infill

@humble fulcrum https://docs.zerog.one/standard/print/settings

[humble fulcrum]

Awesome! Thanks

[iron scarab]

maybe i'm an idiot but i'm having trouble printing the bottom right 625 tower insert. The bearing support is floating on the third layer. supports or nah? https://github.com/TurtleCrawler/Mercury-One.1---Full-Metal-Gantry/blob/main/6mm/Imperial STL Files/Stepper Towers/Offset/6mm Imperial - Offset - Bottom Right Insert-625.stl

[shut pewter]

built in support

whats the print look like

[iron scarab]

its starting to fail on the third layer. let me try and dig out a failed print.

Layer 2 -> layer 3
Ignore the bad z offset. I can't find the most recent attempt but its been resolved. the slicer is attempting to float the bearing support .4mm up in the air.

[shut pewter]

wait thats the wrong file

ohh an issue with the offset version

I'll have to fix that when I have time

not sure whats going on with it

[iron scarab]

Ok I thought I was going crazy lol

I’m in no rush at all. Whenever you get a moment. Thank you!

[shut pewter]

Did you print the non offset ones first?

the offset files are only needed if you have a gap issue

[iron scarab]

i did print the non offsets and they are about .2mm short. I already have the stepper towers on the printer but now i'm switching the whole gantry over to this. I'm currently using the offsets on the towers with the old design.

the offsets fit a little better

[pallid quest]

If my 8mm shafts don’t fit inside my 608 bearings nicely is it best to do something to the bearing or the shaft?

[shut pewter]

I would sand the shaft a bit

[still imp]

I've had no issues printing ASA without an enclosure. Getting the bed to 110 is the key for me. Anything less and is doesn't want to stick.

[heady solar]

@shut pewter are the step files on the github the latest ones? I wanna add ZeroG logos to them :)

[heady solar]

Thoughts on this accent piece to the front tensioner?

[shut pewter]

I dont like it, but go for it if its what you like 🙂

I like the clean simpl look

[unreal lake]

I dig it!

[heady solar]

https://tenor.com/view/digging-thank-you-gif-8141656698417804254

[snow oar]

i like it

[unreal lake]

All the way to China!

[pallid quest]

I like the skeletal look of the normal parts, more metal than printed parts

Just get the plates laser etched with the zero g logo

[wintry marsh]

I was thinking of getting 6 more stand offs and just doing away with the printed parts on the steppers too. There is probably no getting away from the printed parts on the front towers for the tensioning.

[unreal lake]

I did this on mine.. no plastic, but I'm doing my own custom AWD so no tensioning towers for me..

[wintry marsh]

maybe I am going insane but was there a different endstop mount for the cnc gantry and metal parts? I am also running the vz printhead

[humble fulcrum]

Il give it a shot, Ive sent the parts to a local place anyway but it'd be nice to be able print ASA anyway

[humble fulcrum]

yeah so my hub pulley literally doesnt have enough force to pull the hub off

it just bends the plastic

and I still cant print ASA

[humble fulcrum]

I'm not entirely convinced the hub can be pulled off the mellow ones without a great amount of pressure from a big tool

[spark gate]

Not too bad

[humble fulcrum]

It needed.... modifications, but it eventually came off! Finally

[snow oar]

One of my mellow idlers needed an insane amount of force, and the other ones came out super easy

I had to put the nut on the outside with washer

[humble fulcrum]

Yeah that's exactly what I did, put the washer outside of it with a plate and it eventually came off but bent the plate ahah

[snow oar]

Just noticed gap between towers and extrusion. -im running high tension gt3 (280-300hz)

[shut pewter]

you might want to do the 4th hole mod with higher tensions

drilling out the m3 hole between idlers to 5mm

[snow oar]

does it make sense to bore out the back m3 post to m5?

[shut pewter]

no space

I think someone bored out the rear m3 spacer to run a full length m3 bolt

[snow oar]

that makes sense. otherwise maybe a printed clip?

[humble fulcrum]

Would there be much advantage to having the full length bolt?

[snow oar]

just to reach a tnut

[shut pewter]

its only been an issue at higher tensions

[humble fulcrum]

Ahhh, gotcha

Also

I wonder if the stepper mounts for the all metal gantry could be modified to be a little further out to maybe add double shear support for the hybrid

[last ocean]

Maybe it would be an idea to add a little tab to the aluminum parts that extends a little more to the back to add another large spacer and M5 bolt 🤔

[shut pewter]

9mm gt3 tensions are very high

[last ocean]

That would mean you need new plates tho

[shut pewter]

they are designed to be as deep as posible on the 5 pro beta frame

the 5 plus beta frame is deeper

[last ocean]

Oh, that makes sense

[humble fulcrum]

@shut pewter what you reckon?

[shut pewter]

Different mod, I am not doing anything with that.

the reality is very few people daily print at speeds above 600, most dont even go past 200 on walls for daily printing. I have my infill at 400, moves at 800.

going silly fast is really just to find new limits and flex. But does not gain you much on your quality speed settings.

[humble fulcrum]

Yes exactly but if you wanted to find new limits, is there anything preventing it that you could think of? Like could it support it?

[spark gate]

6mm od 3mm Id standoff fits in the back

[shut pewter]

I have not looked at that mod, you would need to look into it yourself.

[spark gate]

I know it fits
I tested it
No need for drilling or anything, just install them and off you go

Otherwise
A 5mm od, 3mm Id spacer definitely fits

[shut pewter]

I was talking about making the metal gantry work with th e hybrid mod

not the rear m3 screw mod

[spark gate]

Ah MB
Sry

[amber cobalt]

No update on kits in the USA yet?

[deft plover]

Just got mine, it is, but it’s still worth it. They basically just tell you what to go learn somewhere else the whole time

[deft plover]

I print outer walls at 120 and while there are still gains to be had, sometimes large ones, for most printing the diminishing returns start to hit fast above like 20k accel and 200-300 mm/s anyway unless you print a lot of big parts

[shut pewter]

Well I only design stuff i want, and some times expand it a bit to fit others needs.

So this mod covers my needs.

[snow oar]

would something like this little clamp work?

[spark gate]

Why not use a longer screw

[snow oar]

im doing that. screws coming tomorrow. i had time and just wanted to sketch this out

itll probably lever itself out of position

[pallid quest]

Can you see if it’s the plates or the extrusion? Temporary fix you could put a m5 button head in a t-nut at the back to pull it down.

[snow oar]

its the entire tower tilting forward. again, im running GT3 @ 280hz.

[pallid quest]

I’m going gt3 belts too so I’ll need to sort some longer screws too. I got my plates done out of stainless though so was wondering which part was the weakness but I know the extrusions twist very easy so probs that.

[lavish sinew]

do you need new gear for the GT3 belts?

[lavish sinew]

does anyone know where else I can buy 5mmx8mm 35/40mm Spacers because the one from BOM link gave me the wrong ones

[shut pewter]

Message the seller on ali, should be able to get them to correct it

[snow oar]

You want to be running double shear motors

[humble fulcrum]

Does it really matter if I use these 9mm spacers if it's 1mm under being flush?

[snow oar]

thats what the plates sandwich against

[blissful creek]

yes.

the spacers dont really do much in urs

[snow oar]

Does your printed part dimension properly?

[humble fulcrum]

Mostly, it's like 9.8mm

Maybe even 9.9

The spacers are taking a long time to turn up for the 5mm OD But I'm determined so I put the 12mm ones I found into a drill and filed it down to 10mm 😆

[snow oar]

I suppose that works

[humble fulcrum]

Well I've got 4 now, takes a while but they're definitely 10mm now

[humble fulcrum]

What length goes into these ? I can only see M3X10mm in the idler BOM am I missing something?
(Ignore the nut, it's just to hold it together)

20mm right?

[snow oar]

I think its 25

Theres a spacer thats 5mm? that goes under the bolt head

[humble fulcrum]

Yeah that's the middle bolt, but what about the 4 countersunk ones?

[snow oar]

I think it was 20mm

[humble fulcrum]

Kinda lost on what to do with the stepper spacers top and bottom, I get that I'm using 55mm shafts and F608s but not sure how these pieces are meant to go together and does that mean I would need a lot more printed spacers given this adds extra space?

[pallid quest]

There is a top and bottom for each stepper tower, you need to read the descriptions to get the right ones. There should be 4 seperate printed parts for the 2 stepper towers.

[humble fulcrum]

That's them but this piece came off from the bottom lol, no idea if it's meant to

[snow oar]

Thats a built in support. Its supposed to come out

[humble fulcrum]

Phew

[snow oar]

Do you not have cad?

[humble fulcrum]

Oh good point lol

[snow oar]

All of your recent questions could have been answered by referencing that, minus the support washer there

[humble fulcrum]

So far so good, just placing them to see how it looks, ignore the plastic braces, theyll be metal soon

[humble fulcrum]

Yeah no worries, Il look at the CAD, no need to get antsy ahah

[snow oar]

M3x40 spacer bored out with 3mm drill bit. Im sure 1/8 would work too? I ordered m3x60 screws and grinded them down to about 55mm, maybe a hair less. I put a washer under the screw head since the hole was countersunk

silver streak is from pair of pliers i used to hold the spacer. about 80% thru the spacer it will start to grab

[ocean yoke]

Did you paint it yourself?

[humble fulcrum]

Yeah, auto spray paint, comes out really nice

[ocean yoke]

Looks like a dream 😍 I will try it as well

[humble fulcrum]

Yeah auto spray has so many colours and effects and it's super easy to do, I'd recommend acrylic paint as it's not sticky and dries nicer, enamel is ok but finicky before it dries

[humble fulcrum]

I found a class 3 F608 bearing for anyone searching, it's not the same as ABEC but "Class 3" is still a lot better than a regular run of the mill bearing, the NSK F608 C3

Model is F608ZZ-MC3

[broken venture]

Endurobearings sell F608s that are ABEC3 graded if thats an option for yah

[humble fulcrum]

They're expensive to ship, I'll try these, I'd wager that they'd still be pretty damn durable as they're still ABEC 1

[broken venture]

Any grading is better than none 😂

[blissful creek]

I bought randoms for cheap af from china some have to not be fakes right?

[humble fulcrum]

Ahhhhhhh

"Equivalent standards" class 3 looks like similar standards to an ABEC 5 in terms of tolerances at least

[kind flame]

What a fustercluck of numbers, classes and just overall confusion

[fickle prawn]

I asked my wife to buy the f608, I guess she went for the cheapest option with free shipping 😅, I hope this will not hunt me back

[pallid quest]

Like abec 11 off AliExpress?

[wintry marsh]

@fickle prawn at least it's got larger balls then some of the bearings we use. It should be less of a problem

[rough stream]

Finally got done anodizing everything after realizing the first set of parts I had came with holes too big. New set's holes are slightly too small but easily fixed with sandpaper. 👍

I didn't really start getting the hang of the anodizing process until about 1/3 of the way through but I'm happy enough with it. I'll do a write up on the entire process.

[sour rock]

I painted mine

[rough stream]

Probably a more even process than how mine look right now, considering. I'm tempted to try again and redo all the parts. 😅

[snow oar]

looks great

[shut pewter]

The prep work is key, tumbling is a great way to get a more consistent finish followed by good cleaning.

[humble fulcrum]

Managed to get most of mine done but still waiting for the steppers, I like the polished look, looks like the M3 5mmOD spacers got lost with Ali express, kinda why I was hesitant at first with one that wasn't using choice but guess I'll have to modify them to fit 6mm OD or precisely file the 12mm (they are very hard to get flat enough)

[sour rock]

looking back should have gone with 9mm

[humble fulcrum]

Why's that?

[kind flame]

Piece of sandpaper on mirror?

[sour rock]

I sanded mine a bit sandpaper on granite countertop

realized I need better photos

also, @shut pewter noticed the pins drop a little bit on top, should I get slightly longer ones?

these are 26mm

[shut pewter]

Probably fine? My rear ones are slightly released but less than yours. This was taken just now while it was printing.

[sour rock]

haven't seen any issues but

[amber cobalt]

@shut pewter are you able to make matching plates to my rear ones?

[shut pewter]

yeah

I think you had one of the open spots I have?

I'll dm you

[queen pagoda]

Having those same thoughts lol

[rough stream]

That's what I went with on one build. Now I'm thinking all my Mercs should be 9mm. 😅

[vagrant swan]

anyone got the files to have a service cnc them? Looks like i cant use stl files

[heady solar]

use the dxf files here
https://github.com/TurtleCrawler/Mercury-One.1---Full-Metal-Gantry

[sour rock]

thing is, I need new belts anyway because of my toolhead, but too late now

[humble fulcrum]

I'd personally get them laser cut, difference in price is immense

[lavish sinew]

@shut pewter can I use threaded spacers for this or normal only

[shut pewter]

if you drill them out

[still imp]

@shut pewter Do you have any more kits for sale?

[still imp]

Is 5052 ok for these parts? A friend can get them cut for me on his next order because he has a lot edge that isn't used on the parts he has cut

[shut pewter]

I need to sort out what I have left, and reach out to one more person in line

I am low on spacers, but I can order what I need from amazon.

[still imp]

@shut pewter Any thoughts on using 5052 aluminum? I would basically be able to get the parts for free.

[shut pewter]

I think others have used it

[humble fulcrum]

I'm sure it'd be fine, just finish it if it's a bit rough if it's laser cut

[verbal burrow]

Any difference in getting it laser cut vs CNC'd, other than price?

[snow oar]

Some features are too small to be cncd

[verbal burrow]

Gotcha, thanks, i'll stick to laser cutting then

[fluid blaze]

Are you still selling these? I'd like to purchase if so thank you

[shut pewter]

I need to order more parts and figure out what hardware I am low on. I do have stepper mounts, one set of front towers, a set of front mount 6mm xjoints and 2 sets of 9mm front mount xjoints. But no top mounts left.

[fluid blaze]

Ok let me know how much that would be I have 8.5mm toothed idlers so would I need the 9mm mounts?

[shut pewter]

9mm is for 9mm belts

6mm for 6mm belts

[fluid blaze]

Ohh ok I have 6mm belts

[shut pewter]

Sent you a dm

[rough stream]

@shut pewter this was a nice touch. I'm going to glue this to my top panel like a sticker. 😅

[shut pewter]

Thanks

[snow oar]

Got any double sided sticky tape?

[rough stream]

Of course! 👍 I should have said attach or adhere, I didn't mean glue literally. 😅

[half dagger]

Already beat you to it!

Thank you @shut pewter

[shut pewter]

You got those installed quick

[half dagger]

I spent the first evening disassembling it and cleaning. The next morning I and afternoon I put it back together in between work calls.

[humble fulcrum]

so many of us metal gantriers use orange, I thought I was special!

[half dagger]

Orange is my favorite color so just goes with the territory. My other Merc was purple.

[devout saddle]

Does this seem right 😵‍💫

[snow oar]

For one full set of plates in US? Thats high

[devout saddle]

Yes here in Austin,Tx. They supply the 7075 plate though. Seemed waaay high

[snow oar]

Try sendcutsend

[devout saddle]

I'll send out tonight when I'm home. Do they do good work usually? I've never heard of them until joining this server

[snow oar]

Yes they do and their customer service is terrific

[devout saddle]

I'll definitely look into them. Thank you

[shut pewter]

I also put together finished kits with hardware and sell them through dms. Full set is $175 shipped, waiting on more plates currently.

[devout saddle]

How does one pay 😅 also doing the 9mm belt set if that matters

[shut pewter]

Send me a dm

[stuck belfry]

I hope this is okay to post here, we try to get a group order together of stepper online 2504 with 55 long 8mm shafts. I thought it might fit.

https://discord.com/channels/747612067951018075/1323345448945057914

[tender token]

oehhhh where did you get that. I like it

[rough stream]

@shut pewter sent it with the parts I got from him. 👍

[tender token]

indeed a nice touch.. I feel a 3d printed version coming 🤭

[deft plover]

@shut pewter what was the rationale behind using the live idlers for the 9mm mod? I want to say someone told me at some point but then I forgot

[shut pewter]

bigger bearings are better

[deft plover]

oh the f695's are the bearings?

silly question

[shut pewter]

yup

[deft plover]

so should I be tightening the grub screws?

[shut pewter]

yes

[snow oar]

You might need to sand the grub screw down

[glad gale]

Should I be concerned about that gap?

[shut pewter]

Nope, you want the aluminum standoffs to set the spacing. Better to have a slight gap on the printed inserts than to have those set the height

[lavish sinew]

I wish I had bought it from you @shut pewter they sent me the wrong item again

[glad gale]

Good because I used loc tight on the motor screws and a bit of thermal paste at the contact face, was not looking forward to taking it apart.

[glad gale]

For the x gantry, are the 2 printed spacers swapped? The toothed idlers are printed at 9.45mm tall and with 0.3mm spacers and the flange stack is 9.85 with 1mm spacers

But there is slack on the toothed idlers and the flange stack is too tall

[shut pewter]

I've only tested it with gates idlers

[glad gale]

I thought that is what I had, it's the ones that came with my Merc one kit from fabreeko

[shut pewter]

Those are not gates

They will be shorter

You can either use more shims or adjust the printed spacers

[glad gale]

Ahh. Got it

[shut pewter]

Part of the reason for the extra shims in the bom

[glad gale]

Just ordered the right ones from kb3d. I have the whole thing torn apart right now so I might as well do it right

[lavish sinew]

I think I'm done with metal gantry

[kind flame]

As in: you're finished or as in: you're giving up?

[lavish sinew]

giving up Ali express keeps sending me wrong parts

[shut pewter]

Dutch might have the spacers you need

[rough stream]

Assembled all the parts, now just gotta install it on the one Merc (Thing 2). The other has the black anodized set (Thing 1). I'm contemplating making a 3rd set for my 3rd Merc but it's all rainbow-y so I'm compelled to make everything in titanium and color it accordingly. 😅

[glad gale]

Perhaps this for the printed parts.

https://3do.dk/en/specialty-filaments/1725-3do-asa-cf-1kg-carbon-fiber-gold.html

[humble fulcrum]

When I saw how many shims you had I bought shidloads and I don't regret it, shim it all, shims for all

[spark gate]

Shims never hurt

[lavish sinew]

@shut pewter how big does the countersink need to be?

[spark gate]

So the screw sits flush

[lavish sinew]

I'm at the hardware store right now but I see different sizes

[lavish sinew]

okay I'm getting confused right now the cad shows this part is m3x30 but the BOM never showed I had to buy m3x30

[shut pewter]

It's labeled wrong in cad

That's 20mm

[lavish sinew]

ah okay thx

[lavish sinew]

does this matter I only have m5x7x1

[shut pewter]

No

Just what i used in cad

[lavish sinew]

@shut pewter the printed spacers do I need to scale it down to 6mm?

[shut pewter]

Not sure what you mean

[lavish sinew]

well the name is 6mm front tower spacer but the spacer isnt 6mm

[shut pewter]

Labeled for belt size

Not the spacer height

[lavish sinew]

hmm okay then my problem is something else

[shut pewter]

Pictures help

[shut pewter]

And the concern?

[lavish sinew]

I need to reprint it apparently it warped

[shut pewter]

That's your issue

[lavish sinew]

ah okay I was following the cad

[shut pewter]

The lower insert is just to hold the heatset and add the tslot tab

Those are .5mm thick in cad

Maybe i didn't rename them

[lavish sinew]

yeah I saw 5x10x1

[shut pewter]

I should fix that at some point

[glad gale]

That was my issue the other day, ended up just sanding down the spacer

[snow oar]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-goodmorning-good-morning-greetings-have-a-good-day-nice-day-gif-13359093197012496274

[fickle prawn]

For the double shear support with F608 bearings, we have potentially convinced Stepper Online to add an 8mm shaft version of their 2504 long shaft motors to their web shop. This will be available after the Chinese New Year holidays. Here are the specifications:

[glad gale]

All parts assembled, just waiting on those idlers to run the belts, thank you again for the kit @shut pewter

[deft plover]

@shut pewter the printed parts aren't supposed to be printed with XY compensation, right?

[spark gate]

I printed mine without any compensation
worked like a charm

Even though I haven't installed them yet 😂

[deft plover]

lol

I've printed like 4 sets already and now I can't remember which is which, but one of the motor mount pieces feels misaligned

I just trimed them a bit til they fit well, so now I just have to wait on these gates pulleys

[half dagger]

No comp here when printing in ASA.

[lavish sinew]

@shut pewter the picture is gone for the stepper tower

[shut pewter]

Is it working on one of the other stepper tower folders?

[deft plover]

for these parts, the ones labeled "top" don't both line up with a hole if you use them on the top on both sides

is that normal or am I doing something wrong?

one lines up fine, the other side leaves the hole in the x joint top piece straight between the 2 holes in the printed part

I'm probably overthinking and should just put it together how it fits but I just wanted to double check

[rough stream]

Maybe mirror a set and consider left and right? That's what I did

[deft plover]

they're already mirrored so I guess I'll just put them together like that

the top and bottom pieces are just mirrors of each other*

[rough stream]

They aren't mirrored on the other axis

Yes but one set should be mirrored left to right

[deft plover]

rotate the piece 180 degrees in your head real quick

it's the same

[rough stream]

Oh I see it's not oriented the way I was thinking. Sorry, I had to drop it in the slicer since I dont have my glasses on.

😅

[shut pewter]

It's really side 1 side 2 in a way. Top is used on bottom on one side

[rough stream]

Holes seem to line up for me unless I'm missing something

[shut pewter]

Yup

They were made to work on either side, top and bottom. Just need 2 of each

[lavish sinew]

@shut pewter can I still use the pulley alignment for the metal gantry

[shut pewter]

?

[lavish sinew]

for the stepper motor is the pulley the same height as the printed version? because I know there was a tool to get the pulley at the right height just wanted to know if I can use the tool for the metal towers

[spark gate]

not the same height afaik
but should be really easy to cad one up

[lavish sinew]

Could you make it? if you want

[spark gate]

I'm not at my pc anymore
just open the metal gantry cad and make it

[shut pewter]

its pretty easy to adjust them to fit your belt path once assemblde

[lavish sinew]

Ok thx

[humble fulcrum]

Wait wut, mine are spaced apart, is it different for 5 plus?

[shut pewter]

he means they line up with the printed spacer when using the 9mm live idler setup

[glad gale]

MUHAHAHAHHAHH, With All metal gantry

before the all metal gantry

doing shaper now, was at 5400 max acceleration before, cant wait to see now

it already sounds soo much better moving

[shut pewter]

Nice

[glad gale]

17k on both x an y

[lavish sinew]

would this motor work for double shear?

[heady solar]

it should

[lavish sinew]

nice now I have it wait when its back in stock

[fickle prawn]

but it’s with 5mm shaft, right?

[lavish sinew]

no idea

[fickle prawn]

the. double shear with that will “only” be on the plastic mount (a bearing on the plastic mount). the 8mm shaft version allows to use an f608 bearing on the metal mount

unfortunately there are no bearings with the external size of a 608 and 5mm ID 😫

[lavish sinew]

ugh its hard to find with 8mm shaft

[fickle prawn]

if you are ok with 5mm shaft and support the bearing in the plastic mount there are also the 2504 from stepper online

[verbal burrow]

3dkatten.eu has them iirc

wait i forgot who had it

https://3dkatten.se/en/products/ldo-42sth48-2504ahs8-s55-1?srsltid=AfmBOooZsOoL0Z4NNVsDGlk-ljR5ANiWsY4QZQ38c7u46XImKIMFoMdq

[fickle prawn]

yeah! know! we had attempted a group buy for a custom motor from stepper online ( look at #1006521404964995195 ) which resulted in the SO support telling up they’ll make a 8mm shaft version of their motor available after their new year holiday

price shoube anywhere between 13 to 17$ a unit

tbh I think the support on plastic is not the end of the world, but I bought the f608 and already installed on the motor towers. it would be easier to just go for the 5mm motors 😂

[lavish sinew]

I think I'm gonna buy the LDO next week

[blissful creek]

thats not a good thing

need a data sheet andd @ me

ill tell u if they wrong

[snow oar]

why?

[blissful creek]

bearing size.

8mm with bearings to fit 5mm shaft section ruins it

[fickle prawn]

I have a pdf but I pasted here #1287514029354520710 message

[fickle prawn]

it makes sense, you are probably right, without saying anything one can’t know how they are planning to adapt their current motor to a bigger shaft. needing to machining the shaft to be 5mm internally in the motor is not necessarily cheaper than swapping bearings

[fickle prawn]

I asked with my choppy english, hopefully they will not misunderstand the question

Does the new motors have 8mm shaft throughout (with some 608 or similar bearing with 8mm ID), or just an 8mm external shaft with a 5mm internal cross section (reusing the bearing of the original motor with 5mm ID)?

[blissful creek]

its the actual bearing size that matters here.

[fickle prawn]

the balls or the actual bearing size? I mean would it be good if they use a 5mm ID bearing with 4mm balls? (if it exists)

[fickle prawn]

also you are right the only info they provided was 625zz. which is obviously not for an 8mm shaft

[fickle prawn]

in the ldo data sheet they specify 698zz bearings

[blissful creek]

Yep. I'm apart of that motor project

[fickle prawn]

I’d love to have one of those 😫, but it’s 40€ each + shipping here in EU

probably by the time we sort this out with stepper online HB will have the 3004 with 8mm shaft released from beta and 3do will be able to import them 😅

[verbal burrow]

I’m gonna keep bugging Thomas about it

[fluid blaze]

Just arrived and man do they good look thank you @shut pewter

[rapid surge]

There we go, @fluid blaze got to level 21!

[shut pewter]

Awesome, I like how that pattern turned out

[fluid blaze]

Have a few more printed parts to print then going to install

Sucks gotta take belts off haha have it like perfect

[shut pewter]

That's nice

[lavish sinew]

@verbal burrow did you have to buy new pulleys for the motors?

[verbal burrow]

For the S8 55 2504's?

[lavish sinew]

yeah

[verbal burrow]

Yeah I had 5mm pulleys before

[snow oar]

Get gates

[lavish sinew]

okay so i need to find that too

[verbal burrow]

i have a front gate

[snow oar]

Get a side gate

It’s minimal cost difference and genuine is always better

[lavish sinew]

damn all of them are for 9mm belts

[verbal burrow]

im gonna use 6mm belts to start with

u can use 6mm belts on a 9mm pulley

[snow oar]

Gates brand

[heady solar]

why?

[snow oar]

It’s minimal cost difference and genuine is better in terms of reliability and tolerance

[heady solar]

$6 for one 😭

[snow oar]

Other will work fine

But it’s a small thing for reliability

[verbal burrow]

the ones i sent are 10 each lmao

[lavish sinew]

well I cant find any gates pulleys

[shut pewter]

It's hard finding gates 8mm bore in the eu

[spark gate]

Those are 3mm pitch though

[verbal burrow]

yea those arent the exact ones i got, mb

[spark gate]

I just wanted to say so people don't accidentally buy them for 2mm pitch belts
Cause that won't work

[verbal burrow]

🙏 gonna delete link just incase, good thinking

[spark gate]

You could also add a warning 🤔

[ocean yoke]

how do many you need for the whole printer? I guess it is usually 2

[heady solar]

you need two for regular merc, 6 for all metal (modified pulleys need extra pieces from other pulleys)

[lavish sinew]

ey guys what bearing is better to get 698-RS or F608-2RS

[blissful creek]

no

[blissful creek]

because no one else has gates profiles. They will have inherent backlash. Powge pulleys are for powge belts

gates pulleys u can get for very cheap from taobao

[blissful creek]

https://3dkatten.se/en/products/20t-2gt-8mm-id-pulley?_pos=2&_sid=dc7981baa&_ss=r

[lavish sinew]

I just bought these 🙂

[blissful creek]

they are gates pulleys.

[lavish sinew]

oh didnt know that I only read it that it was from mellow

[blissful creek]

mellow sells runice which has gates profiles and are licensed

[lavish sinew]

question does 9mm pulleys work with 6mm belts?

[broken venture]

Yeah, as long as your motors are long enough for the pulley

I use them

[lavish sinew]

I bought the pulleys with LDO-42STH48-2504AHS8 S55

[broken venture]

You fine

[shut pewter]

i run 9mm belts on all of my motors regardless of belt size

[lavish sinew]

the only thing what I need to buy is 698-RS or F608-2RS bearings

[ocean yoke]

you mean you run 9mm pulleys/idlers?

[broken venture]

He runs a full 9mm setup. But otherwise just 9mm pulleys on motors with 6mm belts.

[shut pewter]

I meant to say 9mm pulleys

6mm idlers with 6mm belts though

and I only run 9mm on one printer, my other 2 mercs are 6mm still, for now.

[deft plover]

could someone send a picture of how the F608 bearings are supposed to be placed in the stepper towers? i have the flange sticking out the underside of the bottom plate and it looks like it's interfering with the frame

[deft plover]

I might just assemble it without the bearings, use a normal tension for now and hope 8mm shafts do their job well enough until I can print the plastic parts for the stepper tower that leave a gap for the flange since there doesn’t appear to be one. I can’t tell if I printed something with support that stuck too well or I just have an out of date file but my assumption is the flange should go inside the actual tower

[shut pewter]

Flange on top of the center plate

Their is a built in support

[deft plover]

then I have done something wrong

[heady solar]

when 9mm

[hybrid cradle]

What material are people making these out of?

[shut pewter]

Aluminum

I've only used 7075, but others have used 5000 series and 6061

[hybrid cradle]

Sendcutsend is quoting me 80 dollars a piece for the stepper towers out of 5000 series.

[shut pewter]

Should be 80-90 for a full set

In 7071l

7071

[hybrid cradle]

Yeah. I got quoted 80 dollars a piece out of 5000 series, I've gotta talk to them

[shut pewter]

did you make sure to check the mm box?

sounds like you uploaded in inches

[hybrid cradle]

I'll double check it

I may have in fact done that

[hybrid cradle]

I didn't. Thanks for the help there.

But 80 bucks isn't bad if I ever have to make a MercuryOne that can print two or three cars at once.

Now to figure out if getting them to tap some of these holes will save me effort.

OK now I see how this is put together after looking at the cad.

[hybrid cradle]

OK Well everything but the screws are on order now.

(I need to look through my pile of screws before I fire that particular parts cannon)

[humble fulcrum]

I used 5083

[orchid marsh]

I heard @broken venture is doing full Titanium soon

[shut pewter]

No it's heavier

Only ti screws

[hybrid cradle]

I have ordered mine out of 7075

Between those parts and the stuff in the BOM I had to order it's looking like about 200 total, not too bad.

[dreamy raven]

has anyone considered FR4/G10 or like carbon fiber? I guess in similar section thickness they're not near as stiff or strong as 6061
if it was a good idea, someone else would be doing it by now, huh

[spark gate]

carbon fiber stuff is fairly flexible

[heady solar]

i thought it was rigid? it also depends on the resin to cf ratio

[dreamy raven]

Okay so I hit the books (Material Selection in Engineering Design -Ashby) and I've come to some conclusions:
We're only talking about the plates for the XJoints. all the stationary stuff is strength- and stiffness-constrained, minimize cost.
For the X Joints, we're after specific strength. The material selection index is (E^1/2) / ρ
The values for Aluminum are 2.8-3.6 and CFRP they're 5.2-8.2
In practice, quadrupling the cost of the X Joint plates to save single-digit grams in gantry mass is likely a fool's errand.

[snow oar]

Obviously

[shut pewter]

The strength of cf is complicated

[dreamy raven]

anisotropic so picking out a selection factor requires you to figure out failure modes

(E^1/2) / ρ is a gigantic simplifying assumption on my part

[snow oar]

Not worth it here

[shut pewter]

A lot of variables, from the resin, and the orientation of the strands. Unidirectional, weave

[snow oar]

Cost is probably within range of metal anyway

[shut pewter]

Then you have to factor in voids and flaws

[dreamy raven]

this especially. at this scale water-cut CFRP isn't performing anywhere close to its listed strength factors because we've severed so many of the fibers

[lavish sinew]

what bearing do I need for this?

[spark gate]

F608

[lavish sinew]

ok thx

[spark gate]

looks like a 8mm shaft is it?

[lavish sinew]

yeah

[still imp]

I got my kit from turtlecrawler yesterday. I am super impressed with the quality. Can't wait to finish it up tonight and see how it performs!

[ocean yoke]

There is a printer project designed around usage of fiberglass panels like fr4/whatever

[pallid quest]

I got a set made out of 304 stainless, just haven’t put it together yet.

[lavish sinew]

ey guys what is the belt tension with 8mm shaft?

[broken venture]

Thats dependent on belts, not motors

[lavish sinew]

I still have gt2

[broken venture]

Then whatever gates recommends for gt2

[lavish sinew]

Hmm maybe this shaft was a little bit too long

[rough stream]

Nah, you're fine. 👍

[shut pewter]

The parts are not designed around 55mm shafts, but that's a spec that already exists and does not interfere with anything. No need to add another spec.

[broken venture]

If you have a rear corner bracket, it will hit the corner most screw head

[still imp]

I am looking at upgrading my X/Y motors for my all metal gantry. From what I am reading the 2504s are the most recommended? I am looking at this one from Fabreeko: LDO-42STH48-2504AH(S55) ? Is that a good choice? I don't mind paying top dollar for the best motor to get. I have already dumped way too much money into this machine 🤣

Also, are there any issues with a 55mm shaft moving to the nebula frame and enclosure?

[lavish sinew]

okay I thought it could be higher because I saw this

[woven sand]

55mm shouldn't be an issue

[frank obsidian]

If u can, get the 8mm thick version

Lukeslab has them

https://www.lukeslabonline.com/products/8mm-shaft-longboi-ldo-nema-17-motor-high-temp-ldo-42sth48-2504ahs55

Sold out rn

But there are some other shops that have them

[still imp]

What do you think about these motors? https://www.fabreeko.com/products/open-beta-nema-17-3a-rated-classified-steppers-by-honeybadger
For now I would be running with 2240s. I might upgrade to 5160s at some point.

I mean, they must be good with TurtleCrawlers logo on them 🙂

[verbal burrow]

afaik 2504’s are still the best all ‘rounders

[primal halo]

Do you all find that you can drive the belt without slip for motor shafts with no gound flat? I've got a pair of 2804AH in 55x5 shafts I want to use.

[wintry marsh]

@primal halo you have to crank the set screw down very very tight or else they will. Both my machines run smooth shafts.

[primal halo]

Alright I guess I'll hit the gym. Maybe a bit of the sticky stuff can be used to help

[wintry marsh]

Blue loctite would not hurt

[shut pewter]

I don't think they need to be any tighter than normal

[primal halo]

Any recommendations for sourcing in Canadia? Also if anyone did this recently, how much did it run you?

[last ocean]

I had the same concern, so I just filed the shaft down by hand. It took a bit of work but turned out pretty nice. Just remember to wrap the motor bodies with tape so you don't get any shavings into the bearings and coils

[primal halo]

That did cross my mind, I am a bit concerned with putting excessive hub load on the bearings/ bending the shafts. I'll need to get a little creative with fixturing I guess

[last ocean]

If your'e using 55mm shafts you can clamp the tip of the shaft in a vise and look for some stuff you can put under the motor body so it stays level while filling. Also you really don't have to use a ton of force on the file, it should do most of the work itself

[dreamy raven]

When I get mine I'm planning to print a vise collet for holding it to file, just so I don't mar the end of the shaft. wrap the body of the motor to protect from contamination with metal filings

wait, motor shafts are usually hardened arent they? might need to grind instead of filing.

[half dagger]

Yeah, hardened shafts.

[last ocean]

Here's a picture of my stepperonline motors after filing. It took a while but it worked pretty well I'd say. To hold it in the vise I used some printed jaws out of nylon

[shut pewter]

Round shafts are fine, zero need for the flat spot.

[heady solar]

@shut pewter what is the most likely cause for belt drift on this mod?

[shut pewter]

Dunno, lockdown is the only one I have seen have a problem with belt walk using this mod

[blissful creek]

not closed loop belts.

[heady solar]

@snow oar do you know what might cause belt drift?

[heady solar]

hard on corexy

[snow oar]

No. One side of my belts is getting chewed and im waiting on replacement to come in before dissembling

Just letting the printer eat it

[blissful creek]

its really not.

u just cut the closed loop apart. u just want it for the spiral cut aspect

[snow oar]

But not shimming properly will do it. Even if you’re 0.1mm taller of a steeper tower or idler or xjoint, that gets amplified by distance and rotation

[shut pewter]

Square flat gantry/frame is also important

[spark gate]

burgo going at it from the least likely cause 😂

[blissful creek]

its really not.

[spark gate]

frame being out of square, pin being slightly tilted, stepper towers being pulled forward

[broken venture]

Im running closed loop belts XD

[blissful creek]

"Long-Length belting is produced in Spiral form. Spiral cut belting is produced from a belt sleeve by moving the slitter laterally while the belt sleeve is rotating. The resulting belting does not have continuous tensile cords, and the teeth are not perfectly perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the belt. As long as the belt width is narrow, these properties have been found to contribute little if any detrimental effects to belt performance. Tensile modulus and strength are equivalent to conventional endless and long length belting."

[heady solar]

how do ik if i need to shim up/down?

[spark gate]

Do a bed mesh
The high corners on the mesh need to be shimmed up

[snow oar]

Are you belts chewed up

[spark gate]

Cause high on mesh means nozzle closer to bed

[heady solar]

no

[heady solar]

my bed isnt flat already lol

[spark gate]

Well

[heady solar]

ill try tho

[spark gate]

Measure the diagonals

[heady solar]

Im going crazy trying to figure out this issue 😭 \

[heady solar]

so the printer bed has some skew, but Im guessing its front left?

[spark gate]

This just looks like front is too low
Are you on hydra or normal bed?

Would probably be better suited for #z-axis though 🤔

[heady solar]

normal

i think i actually figured it out tho. im not sure how, but before i fell asleep i logically figured out what part was messed up. ive concluded its the right xy joint for certain. i totally forgot the reason to it, but i know its right. (also, if you look into some psychology, you essentially think better before you fall asleep, but i wont explain)

[heady solar]

im fine with the bed. I'm concerned abt belt walk

[shut pewter]

Probably stock frame issues

[heady solar]

could be too...

[topaz agate]

I have the same problem with the plastic towers, just this morning I remembered that the pulleys on the motors themselves arent glued in place but I didnt have the time yet to adjust their position, I think that's the problem in my case

[topaz agate]

also, my right bearing stack actually has a bit of play for some reason, I can move it up and down by a mm

[snow oar]

On a plus side that mm is a bigger difference over a span vs a pro

[swift rapids]

So I'm putting together the 6mm metal parts for the Mini Merc and there's some conflicting info. The BOM says I need 4x 30mm standoffs for each stepper tower, but the CAD shows only needing 2x 35mm standoffs. I ordered per the BOM, however I do have some 35mm standoffs. Which do I need?

Disregard. I measured the printed parts and it's 35mm. I'm sure someone else has already brought it up that the BOM is incorrect.

[shut pewter]

Measure the lengths in cad

I have some labeling issues on cad when I modified the parts from 9mm to 6mm

[swift rapids]

Something else I noticed is my printed spacers on the X joints came out to 9.7mm, likely just a result of my printer. I'm assuming the 9.25mm dimension in the CAD on that part is pretty important to maintain

The 9.85mm printed parts came out pretty spot on

[shut pewter]

Just shim add needed

[swift rapids]

I'm going to run some spare spacers I have down to a local machine shop and have them turn them down to length to replace the printed spacers

[swift rapids]

Anyone else experience this? There's about a 1mm gap between the printed parts

[broken venture]

That a bit of a gap, but there should be one by design. Plates should be sitting on the standoffs, not the part

But that really is a gap XD

Should be thin

[swift rapids]

The only issue I can see it causing is the bearing stacks being able to move up or down

I suppose I can add a .5mm shim on top and bottom of the stack so it's center

[shut pewter]

That's why their are offset printed files

Some printers eat the first layer

[swift rapids]

Is there an updated pulley alignment tool for the motors? I used the ones from the regular configurator and the pulleys are badly misaligned.

[shut pewter]

No, I have never used them

[broken venture]

We just use 9mm versions and get it in the ballpark

[shut pewter]

You have a clear view of it now, and can access the set screws to adjust as needed

[swift rapids]

I just eyeballed it.

[pallid quest]

I normally loosen the grub screws and move the toolhead around so the pulleys move into place then tighten them.

[humble fulcrum]

@supple quartz

[half dagger]

Just wanted to throw an fyi out there. I have a lightweight gantry on my plus. The m5 mounting holes were about 2mm too short for mounting to the metal gantry. I just checked the linears rails. Close enough parallel and centered to not cause this much of a difference. I think the easy path forward is going back to a solid extrusion.

One could possibly move the rails out 1mm on each side but you'll throw out the belt path.

[spark gate]

I just put fmg and printed parts on top of each other and the holes are in the same positions

[half dagger]

With lightweight?

[heady solar]

lw beam worked for me on 377

[half dagger]

I already moved my y rails out. I don't know why I ended up with issues with that. Either way. I'm adjusting and will work on it later getting it racked.

[spark gate]

I dont have a plus
but the holes on the printed parts and fmg parts are the same
so fmg shouldnt make a difference

[half dagger]

I know they line up, which is why I was going crazy lol

I realized I don't have my 500mm solid piece here so going to make it work

[shut pewter]

@half dagger did it work with the printed parts? Same hole locations

[half dagger]

It did, there must have been some binding then too. I have stuff all torn down and will put it back together here later.

[shut pewter]

Maybe your frame is just wider?

[half dagger]

I measured as best as I could with a tape outside to outside of rails and looked spot on. Then same for the frame. It's why I think I'm going crazy.

I pulled the dimensions from the 3D model

[broken venture]

Measure hole to hole and check with fysetcs drawings?

Thatll tell you immediately if its the gantry or something off with the frame

[half dagger]

I'm going to go with frame at this point. The holes on the gantry appear to be right.

You have no idea how crazy this makes me lol

[broken venture]

How are the holes on the carriage drilled? Centered?

[half dagger]

But, trying to find 2mm in all of it makes me think its got to be the frame. There are variations in the thickness of the 2020 so I'm going to guess that played a factor many moons ago when I put the rails on.

Realistically it's closer to 1.5mm.

Holes are off about 0.2 on one side, so 0.1 off center

long story short, there was indeed a slight bow to the gantry. I tried fixing it. I guess I went hulk smash on it. It's not more.

[rough stream]

I was just about to say I have the LW gantry on one of my plus Merc with FMG and it fit fine. 😆 I'm glad you figured it out though.

[half dagger]

One of the arms kinked a little, then the other side. So I showed it I wasn't messing around.

[broken venture]

https://tenor.com/view/fitness-captain-america-steve-rogers-rip-it-off-avengers-gif-14083354

[topaz agate]

ok, for some reason I completely ignored the fact that the belt path is lower, I am building the 6mm version, this means I'll have to lower the toolhead belt mounts as well right?

or does it sit lower as well because of the x-joints? oh that's it right? 😄

[woven sand]

you wont have to mod your toolhead

[topaz agate]

got it, thanks, short moment of "eww, I knew I forgot smthWW

[shut pewter]

The belts are always centered along the 2020

[topaz agate]

„What’s your hobby?“
„I do 3D printers. „
„Nice, what do you make?
„I cut metal parts“
„Nice, with the printer?“
„No, for my printer“

[meager laurel]

"Eevrything I do is for my printer"

[heady solar]

literally me lol

[meager laurel]

🤣 🤣

[topaz agate]

Do I see this right that all motor mount plates are exactly the same except the two bottom ones that have a smaller hole to retain the pins?

about to chamfer the m3 shcs holes, just wanted to double check because at first I thought they're all the same 😱

[last ocean]

Exactly

[unreal lake]

No, the top plate and middle plate have 5mm holes for the pulley stacks and the bottom plate has the smaller holes, so the pin won't drop out the bottom..

[brave frost]

I am considering rebuilding my merc.....
I would like to do this mod and have a lightweight/CNC gantry.
Which one would you recommend? Can anyone provide a link?
Thanks in advance

[frank obsidian]

Only lw gantry for mercs if the fystec one

[heady solar]

dont get lw gantry for plus. the lw gantries bend and will cause resonance peaks

[supple quartz]

That's why I am using custom lasercut aluminium square hollow tube,

[heady solar]

this works well

[brave frost]

Okay, thanks for the tips

[supple quartz]

@warped bloom

[swift rapids]

Got my machined X joint spacers today. 👍🏻

[topaz agate]

What?? not iced? I am so disappointed 😛

awesome. it took quite a bit of tweaking with the shims to get the printed parts to perfect heights

[swift rapids]

Yeah I didn't want to have to deal with that. Plus if you're going with all metal might as well go ALL metal. they're all within .01 so I shouldn't have to shim too much

[snow oar]

i wonder if the alu tube at work i have is the right dimensions

[swift rapids]

As long as you can turn it down to the dimensions anything will work

I just used some left over spacers I had from my AliExpress orders

[timber stratus]

@shut pewter if you use the xjoints, do you have to use the tensioner towers and stepper towers with it? like, the height of the idlers and such would be different than stock parts?

[shut pewter]

Yes

[timber stratus]

ok.

thx

[shut pewter]

Only the stepper mounts can be standalone

[timber stratus]

got it.

[shut pewter]

The other printed parts could be modded

[timber stratus]

yyyyyea, i have enough on my plate with this thing, i dont wanna tackle that too 🤣

im using the zandve enclosure mod with the voron like tensioners, and his 'more power' stepper towers

ive studied the cad and modded things to taste, and his tensioners and motor mounts are solid i believe. i just want cnc x joints.

[supple quartz]

Is there lengths where I won’t need shims? I’ve got a mate ready to turn up some spacers from bar stock 5083 for me

That or 6060/6061

He’s got some on the shelf at his machine shop

[shut pewter]

You would need to measure yourself

[supple quartz]

Ok, only reason I ask is because your BOM says 30mm spacers etc

He said he’d smash them out for me

I know I can buy them but stuff it, if I’m going good stuff, I’d rather be accurate, than “meh close enough” accuracy

[shut pewter]

Look at the CAD

[supple quartz]

Ok

[severe glade]

does anyone have an estimate of how expensive the parts for this are? and recommendations where i could get the plates cut in eu / germany?

[spark gate]

xometry
price I dont remember anymore

[lavish sinew]

didnt we get it for free with that coupon code?

[spark gate]

not totally at least in my case cause I didnt want to scam xometry

[lavish sinew]

hmm okay

[spark gate]

I think it was like 140
but 2 kits cause 1 kits was only 5 bucks less

so I paid 40

[severe glade]

Huh? XD

[lavish sinew]

last year there was an 100 euro coupon and the metal parts was just under 100 euros so many people got it the metal parts for free

[severe glade]

Dayumn

[last ocean]

Last time I checked on xometry it was around 80€ for everything

Yes, 78€ including shipping

[shut pewter]

Xometry prices depend on location

They are more expensive in the US