Minimalist Quad Z levelling setup for E5 PLUS M1.

[haughty stratus]

Minimalist triple-Z (Now Quad Z) levelling setup for E5 PLUS M1.

Just for completion, I'm updating this to say I'm now running Quad Z and performance is very good - easily getting <0.02 variance during mechanical levelling with a MIC bed. This setup will also work with the stock bed as it uses all the same pickup points. Here is a performance printout, as well as the STLs.

Modified QUAD_GANTRY_LEVEL to work with klicky:

[quad_gantry_level] setup (used instead of z-tilt)

[still tulip]

are you still liking this setup? Was thinking of doing the hydra, but this seems quick and easy (and cheaper).

[undone turtle]

Could you post a link of where you got the additional parts you needed? (lead screws, couplers, etc)

[still tulip]

I'm going to give this a try. I just got all my parts off Amazon

[undone turtle]

Interested to hear how it goes, seems fairly straight forward and a great upgrade for not much cost especially if you’re repurposing the stock steppers. Are you printing rigid standoffs for the bed in place of the bed springs?

[haughty stratus]

Yes, I've been running the quad Z setup nonstop since posting this. I print 3-4 times a week. No problems! I have it set for 0.02mm tolerance and get around 0.01 during the calibration. Then bed mesh and good to go. I won't go back to z tilt. I can post the Amazon links later when I get home if still needed.

[undone turtle]

0.01 is amazing, I’ll definitely be doing this to my machine too! I think all I need is some z screws and couplers but I’ll need to look more into it. Thank you for sharing!

[haughty stratus]

It is a mic 6 bed....

That 0.01mm is the quad z level reading btw....after mesh I'm at 0.18mm overall with a 7x7 grid.

[haughty stratus]

Cool. I'll help if needed...my documentation is pretty sparse. I do have one minor update with a printed shim I'll post a bit later.

[undone turtle]

Ah ok that makes sense, I try and stay under a 0.2 deviation so 0.18 is solid especially for minimum work. Did you replace your bed springs for rigid standoffs?

[haughty stratus]

I still have the springs and just cranked them down fairly tight so they don't wiggle, but replacing might work better. [?]

[still tulip]

I currently still have the stock ender 5 plus bed, heaters, and setup. My new Mic6 bed, AC heater, and all the rest of the parts come in Friday. Just printed all the parts you have above. Post the spacer and a pic where it goes when you get the chance. Cant wait to setup and try this.

[haughty stratus]

I hesitated to post this because I've found the frame tolerances and hole locations so wild on these printers, but I shimmed the linear bearing rails inward by 0.4mm on each side. I recommend you size your own shims, if needed at all. To figure out what I needed, I loosened the rail mounting hardware so the rails could float a bit, then ran the bed all the way up and down to its max and min. Feeler gauges between the rail mounts and frame will tell you if, and how much, shimming is needed. This would depend on frame construction and also where they drilled the holes in the bed carrier that day. 🙂

I used this lead screw. I had to buy the 600mm and cut it to size on the lathe bacause the other sizes were not available at the time. 2mm pitch, 2 starts, 4mm lead are the specs on my OEM screws. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085FYVSJ3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P82D36N/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XYR3F4C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Make sure your lead screws are the same pitch as mine since I've heard some varied!

Minimalist Quad Z levelling setup for E5 PLUS M1.

[undone turtle]

@haughty stratus Where did you find the bed offsets shown in your pictures?

[haughty stratus]

The four little 1cm risers? They are part of the M1 parts.

ZeroG site.

[undone turtle]

Got it, thank you

[undone turtle]

Did you end up doing this? I’m planning on doing it this weekend and am intrigued to hear your experience

[still tulip]

not yet. I got busy with other things. Maybe i will get a chance this weekend too.

[undone turtle]

So I ordered 2 450mm z screws which look like they are not the same pitch as the original E5+. Which is exactly what you had warned about. That being said, I’m not sure if it would be better to convert them all over to this smaller pitch or match what’s currently on the machine.

Z-Screws I purchased- 2pcs 450mm Tr8X2 Lead Screw with T8 Brass Nut for 3D Printer Machine Z Axis(Acme Thread, 2mm Pitch, 1 Start, 2mm Lead) https://a.co/d/gTk7UAk

Also 450MM seems to be shorter than the originals which roughly measure at 470mm

[still tulip]

I did the same thing. I went ahead and got 4 of them. The stock is 8 lead, so these 2 lead will have 4 times the resolution. Will be slower, but better z control.

[undone turtle]

What length did you get? I think we’ll have to adjust for the pitch change in firmware too right?

[still tulip]

Yes. I guess you could use a different lead on each stepper, define it in software, and klipper will make it all work together. So you could use 2 8lead and 2 2lead together, but 4 2lead seems like it would be better in the long run

[undone turtle]

Yep I agree, I think regardless I’m going to have to get longer ones, likely 480 because these 450s don’t seem like they will cut it

[still tulip]

I just checked, I got 500mm, hoping they aren't too long. Amazon had them next day, so just went for it, especially with free returns

[undone turtle]

Ah gotcha, I also got mine off Amazon, I just did a rough measurement and it looks like 500s would be fine, more than you’d need but they won’t stick up past the frame

[haughty stratus]

That's too bad...those look like 1 start rather than 2 from the text description. You can either return, or try to accomodate two diff threads in the klipper setup....easiest to have 4 identical pitches of course. Also, cutting them down to size wasn't too hard if you need to shorten them.

[undone turtle]

Yeah all good, I can return them, just sets back the project a couple days. I ended up ordering 4 of these-
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXH7XKFV?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

[undone turtle]

Did the deed, overall turned out great, getting less than 0.01 tolerance between the four corners with a quad gantry level and getting consistent less than 0.12 deviation across the bed, I attribute that to just having a non flat bed given that it’s stock

[daring lynx]

Your solution of quad Z doesn't make alot of sense ngl in terms of tryna adjust the bed with 4 motors. The bed is bad likely. You are using the stock motors and the bed is thin

A better bed is close to the cost of the motors + leadscrew + couplers

[daring lynx]

are those supposed to be gates belts?

Literally blocks do the same thing.

[undone turtle]

Whatever ya gotta tell yourself man 👍

[daring lynx]

wdym? The E5+ bed coming bent/ being an issue is common. u just spent alot of money on more leadscrews/ motors when literally blocks do the same thing. If it takes 4 motors for ur Z then ur printer is broke somewhere. Likely frame.

the aluminum pltate there is an issue.

[undone turtle]

First off I really could care less about arguing or your opinion… and second off you’re contradicting yourself, if the bed is bent and frame has issues like you say then “blocks” which I assume you mean static standoffs rather than springs? wouldn’t do anything other than lock the bed into place in it’s already bent state and leave all of the “leveling” to the probe within the gcode. Which isn’t good enough imo. But please keep “trynna” educate me.

[daring lynx]

no the blocks are used for alignment of the axis.

[undone turtle]

Ok then you still have to use bed screws which is what I’m trying to avoid

[daring lynx]

bed screws can't fix the 2010s being bent

[still tulip]

I've found that the stock design tilts on me over time. Yes you can keep running mesh before every print, but soon you'll be printing at a 45 degree angle(exaggerated of course). With this you can at least keep it level all the time.

[daring lynx]

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4888582

this can to

dual Z also can do the same thing.

[still tulip]

We eliminated the need to have to use blocks to level all the time. Auto block calibration, lol

[daring lynx]

if ur bed is level the blocks will find ur lead screws plates alignment

[still tulip]

Those would have been very helpful in the past though, goo find

[daring lynx]

if u wanna actually not level then getting a MIC6 8mm palte is what people do.

[still tulip]

I just got a new mic6 from fabreeco. It's not perfectly flat either. Way better than stock though.

[daring lynx]

yes. it should be within 0.2mm of range of variance.

anything showing higher is a mechanical issue likely

[undone turtle]

Yeah but the bed still needs to be level relative to everything else

[daring lynx]

3 motors is the minimum technically to do that. or do what a vzbot does.

[undone turtle]

You remind of the kid with glasses from the polar express lol

[undone turtle]

Wait did you not realize that we no longer have to use bed screws? Because that’s the whole point of this, now everything is completely automated

[daring lynx]

3 motors does the same thing. I know that is what your trying I'd just do silicone buffers. Also ur bed is bent

[undone turtle]

Dude…. Ffs I know that three does the same thing, I wanted to use four, chill out

Just took this 5 seconds ago, perfect layers and all I had to do was a quad gantry level and a mesh, I don’t know if you’re trolling on purpose or just feel the need to try and be the smartest guy in the room but calm down, there’s multiple ways to accomplish the same goal

[daring lynx]

I've been chill. U haven't lol. there's many ways to accomplish tasks. However the metal plate restricts the plates and doesn't actually fix the issues.

Not tryna be smartest person in the area. Just tryna suggest other ideas because there is stuff like hydra which is worth the cost of a 8mm plate vs extra motor + lead screw.

[haughty stratus]

What are you even talking about Burgo? Do you have some kind of point to make?

[haughty stratus]

Sweet!

[undone turtle]

Thanks for the awesome mod dude! Turned out great and I’m so glad to say that I never have to turn another bed screw haha I’ve been getting consistent butter smooth layers, definitely recommend this mod to anyone with a similar build, small cost and the couple hours it took to install is going to save so many more hours than having to go through the leveling process. Thanks again

[undone turtle]

A few weeks with this quad gantry level and I can honestly say it's hands down the best upgrade for this machine. Stock bed, 0.065mm variation

[tawdry dust]

just ordered two new couplers to make this mod - looking forward to a super level bed! thanks!

[tawdry dust]

@undone turtle and @haughty stratus how are you wiring this up? two motors paired to one driver, or all on their own stepper drivers?

[haughty stratus]

Each stepper will need its own driver so they can move independently.

[tawdry dust]

ok cool - is there any special configuration needed in klipper or just set them up as z_1 z_2 etc?

[haughty stratus]

Yep just regular setup. I can help with config if needed when you get into it later.

[tawdry dust]

awesome - thanks! Hopefully this weekend. thanks again!

[undone turtle]

Looks like OP’s got ya covered, I’ll try to remember when I get home to post a screenshot of my config and then a link to the klipper guide if you don’t have it already

[tawdry dust]

thanks @undone turtle !

[undone turtle]

Config, can upload the whole config if you'd like

Klipper guide Quad Gantry Level - https://www.klipper3d.org/Config_Reference.html @tawdry dust

I know its pretty important to have your steppers alligned with the diagram "Z" --> "Z2"... etc, I'm sure you already know this but I'd recomend using the stepper buzz command to identify each stepper and then assign them accordingly

[tawdry dust]

I don't know ANY of this - very new (but not brand new) to the hobby - so all of this helps a ton! Thanks!

[undone turtle]

Sure thing! In that case I added my config here if you'd like to take a look. But be warned that you definitely have some things set up differently than I do so only use it as reference! If you have questions myself and others are happy to help and that Klipper Guide is like the bible! Good luck!

[tawdry dust]

super helpful! thank you! This discord has been great so far - really looking forward to getting to work on this. I printed out the STLs that @haughty stratus, new (shorter) z wires arriving tomorrow, and two new lead screws from zyltech

I think I should be good to go, then i'll start assembling the kit with the printed parts i got from HPF

[haughty stratus]

Jackson what are you doing for Z homing? I'm on klicky and sexbolt-ish autoZ (no paper measuring ever...) but Timbo might be using BL? Edit - glanced at your .cfg looks like BLTouch.

[tawdry dust]

I'm planning on using klicky and hadn't really thought thru z homing

[undone turtle]

@haughty stratus Sorry, didnt see your message till now, I do a QGL then a PROBE_CALIBRATE (paper test) then a BED_MESH_CALIBRATE then I do a first layer test and adjust my Z as the first layer test is going, then save Z_offset then I know were perfectly leveled and the offset is right on

[subtle citrus]

do the lead screwadaptors take into acount for the difference in location of the rod vs the lead screw. im having binding issues down low near max Z

[haughty stratus]

If I'm understanding your question, that's fixed by the shim pieces I posted...loosen the rod-to-frame mounts at the bottom (or top, depending) and reposition the rails so Z tracks smoothly and have identical spacing.

Also, I think you're the third person to try this. 😄

[subtle citrus]

my bad. i didnt read the full think. only spark noted it lol

[haughty stratus]

Np. I've got one hydra machine and one set up like this now, and got to say z performance is just about identical as far as leveling. Hydra is obviously much cooler and better designed though.

[subtle citrus]

i get .01xxxxx at the moment with a fabreko bed. with the quad Z.

[haughty stratus]

That's awesome. I'm around 0.016.

[undone turtle]

Nice, average I'm seeing with a stock bed and this quad-z setup is about 0.05mm variation

[dusk tundra]

Did you still have the stl's for this? I cant find them in the post for some reason.

[haughty stratus]

Yeah, I messed up the post when trying to edit and haven't had time to sort it. I've put them on Thingiverse just now, link should be valid soon: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6298754

[dusk tundra]

Thank you!

[sterile hedge]

2pcs 500mm Tr8X4 Lead Screw with T8 Brass Nut for 3D Printer Machine Z Axis(Acme Thread, 2mm Pitch, 2 Start, 4mm Lead) https://a.co/d/el4f9KV

Do these match the 2 stock lead screws? Or do I need to order 4 of these?

[subtle citrus]

i believer i ordered the same and they were the same. here is the ones i ordered. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085FYDWYG?ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details&th=1

i believe you will have to cut them down some though.

[sterile hedge]

What length do they need to be?

[subtle citrus]

470mm is stock ender 5 plus. easy to cut down with hacksaw and 4" grinder.

[sterile hedge]

@subtle citrus ok cool thanks

[subtle citrus]

just pull your stock ones to double check.

[sterile hedge]

@subtle citrus yea, not sure when il do this. I just got the plastic cover for the stock configuration lol

[subtle citrus]

ill send you my parts for the electroics cover. i used a rectangular panel with printed side covers.

[sweet robin]

Any tips on where to get a better bed for the plus? Ali or EU is preferred

[subtle citrus]

i got mine from https://www.fabreeko.com/

[sterile hedge]

+1 for the fabreeko bed

[sweet robin]

Gets pretty expensive with import

[haughty stratus]

I'm running the Mic6 Fabreeko bed with whole bed AC heater. No complaints.

Oh, sorry, I get it that importing it is tough.

[sterile hedge]

Depending on how much inport fees are could be worth it. It's super flat and heats insanely fast

[sweet robin]

Maybe! Good to have a cheaper and more simple option that full hydra 😊

[subtle citrus]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805323752369.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt

basically like the fabreeko one. i know others have gotten it and liked it. idk if it mounts to stock bed locations.

[undone turtle]

Here's a nice addition I designed to this already beautiful quad gantry setup! Some bearing brackets to keep everything nice and square-

Here's the necessary bearings- https://www.amazon.com/Pack-608-RS-Ball-Bearing-Skateboards/dp/B07VPQZZMV/ref=asc_df_B07VPQZZMV/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=477917422687&hvpos=undefined&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13113085579131588048&hvpone=undefined&hvptwo=undefined&hvqmt=undefined&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=undefined&hvlocint=undefined&hvlocphy=9007527&hvtargid=pla-1156427686946&mcid=012843483f6f36a89dd3da422cb53bfd&th=1

And then I use the standard M3 2020 T-slot nuts and M3x8mm screws

And my stock bed is nice and happy-

[sterile hedge]

nice! i so badly want to do this. i just need to find the right lead screws.... and time

@undone turtlecould i get the stl to your webcam mount?

[undone turtle]

It’s so worth it! Here’s the lead screws I got and then I just cut them down to size, I think 470mm but if you’d like I can get a more accurate measurement

https://a.co/d/aoQdX4a

And yeah I’ll see if I still have the stl

[sterile hedge]

what motors are you using?

[undone turtle]

Same as the existing z motors, https://a.co/d/5GhZzDe

[sterile hedge]

thanks!

[undone turtle]

https://www.printables.com/model/231859-c920-webcam-mount

[sterile hedge]

printed! thanks, so much better than having the webcam hanging on the extrusions like its a computer monitor lol

[sterile hedge]

just ordered this, and i found 2 spare 42-35 steppers with the lead screw clamp.

question are these the same pitch as the stock lead screws? i only ordered 2 and was planning on using the stock 2

[leaden flax]

stock are Tr8x4. They're using Tr8x2.

[sterile hedge]

@leaden flax oof so I should order 2 more... danggit

[leaden flax]

😕

Reliabot is a good brand on Amazon if you don't want to wait

[sterile hedge]

@leaden flax thanks. I'm not in a rush to do this. My printer is working great now.

[sterile hedge]

I'll look into this

[subtle citrus]

i am running this with 4 stock pitch lead screws.

[undone turtle]

The ones I am using are qty. 4 Tr8X4 500mm long. I believe I had to cut them down to 470mm. I did this a long time ago but if I remember right the existing lead screws were too short so I needed to get 4 rather than two

[sterile hedge]

I'll order another set. Thanks.

[subtle citrus]

im running 2 stock and 2 500mm ones i cut. as long as you have the same ones for each.

[undone turtle]

Gotcha, maybe I’m remembering wrong on the stock ones being too short

[sterile hedge]

Alright guys. Here's an odd question . . Does this mean the lead screws are the same lol

[subtle citrus]

if the nut goes on yes. should spin easily.

[sterile hedge]

Smooth as butter. I'm guessing this is a good sign and I don't need to buy 2 more.

[subtle citrus]

yeap should be good to role.

[sterile hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/amy-poehler-thug-thug-life-hoodie-gif-5080826

[void cosmos]

When doing quad z or hydra do you get rid of the spacers / springs on bed and bolt it directly to the rail

[subtle citrus]

hydra yes. the quad z maybe depending on how your hotend setup is. i have them removed

[void cosmos]

Ok I have dual z now and it's like a fight between z tilt and screw tilt lol

[noble shoal]

A mate of mine fixed the back 2 screws of the bed and left the front 2 adjustable
That way, he can adjust bed tilt with the back 2 and the front 2 can be used to get the bed fully leveled
makes it easier as you dont have to adjust the screws that often

[void cosmos]

That's a good idea I'll try that

[subtle citrus]

i have gone fixed bed with the quad z and just to quad gantry level.

[undone turtle]

With quad Z you just tighten the springs all the way down so you have a rigid bed.

[void cosmos]

true i have dual z now so i tighten now the back to and probe back there and i have to adjust front seems fine for now till i go hydra

[undone turtle]

Ah gotcha nice, I’ve never messed with z tilt although I should’ve when I just had the two Z screws. Hydra will be very nice. Can’t tell you how convenient it is to never have to manually level a bed again lol

[oak glen]

I made this tool so it is visiual how much the screws move from eachother or if you have both the z screws on one stepper driver. https://www.printables.com/model/713259-ender-5-plus-z-screw-sync-indicator-cover

[subtle citrus]

just keep running it. i personally get the bed as level as i could with Z tilt and than used the screw tilt. i did solid mount my bed once i went quad Z.

[full moss]

I’m in the middle of this mod right now! Do you use the stock rod bearing slides or just the printed adapters for the solid rods?

[haughty stratus]

Not sure I understand the question...stock circular linear bearings for Z if that's what you are asking?

[full moss]

Yes

[haughty stratus]

Yep stock bearings.

This is the cheapskate solution 😀

[full moss]

How do you mount them to the steel plate?

[haughty stratus]

Using the printed adapter provided.

You saw the thingiverse stuff?

[subtle citrus]

could always drill the plate to fit the linear bearing if you dont plan to go back.

[full moss]

I have the adapter but I’m confused how to mount the adapter to the plate and to the larger linear bearing

[subtle citrus]

you must heatset the adaptor. and then attach the adaptor the the z plate and than attach the linear bearing to the adaptor.

[subtle citrus]

#1079199079210438656 message

[full moss]

Ahh thank you! I was wondering if heat set was the answer!!

[haughty stratus]

Let us know how it works out for you

[full moss]

Are those m3 all the way around?

[subtle citrus]

yes voron size i believe

[full moss]

That was the ticket! I used m3*4 inserts.

Now I just gotta deal with my warped bed…

[dusk tundra]

Any of you guys added kinematics to the bed for this mod? I was thinking of doing something with a small linear rail on each corner kinda like hydra

[haughty stratus]

Not sure why you wouldn't just do hydra at that point? It's a technically better solution with the kossel ball swivels (though I have one printer with this QuadZ and one with Hydra, and performance is basically identical).

[solid beacon]

Do you people still use this mod? Hydra is way too expensive for me right now, and this mod is like 1/10th of the price, and I do have some issues with keeping my bed level.

[subtle citrus]

still running it.

[solid beacon]

Cool!

I guess it's worth it then

I mean, I probably will have to get the MIC6 bed because my stock bed is warped to oblivion

but MIC6 is just 1/3rd of the cost of everything

so that's still cheaper than getting hydra right now

with the possibility of upgrading later which is great

[subtle citrus]

been working good for me. and i have thought about changing to hydra but with mysetup i would have to change so many things at this point.

[solid beacon]

Wondering if this could technically bend a MIC6 bed

shouldn't probably, but I wouldn't wanna risk it

[solid beacon]

Not something that I have researched or thought through, just a genuine quick question - why use the smooth rod in the center of each side? Wouldn't that mess with the quad z levelling? If the rear motor wants to go up, and the front motor wants to go down, wouldn't both of these motors be fighting against that smooth rod?

[subtle citrus]

you arent wrong. but it has some give.

[solid beacon]

interesting. Due to these concerns I might create a little upgraded version of this mod, either a "poor man's hydra" with 3 points or something for Quad Z but rather with 4 100mm linear rails (kinda like hydra uses) or for the ultra cheap option - a version with 4 100mm linear rods.

Don't get me wrong, I think this mod is great, but I feel like it could be greatly improved upon.

[subtle citrus]

i agree. even just finding a way to separte the linear bearing with some movement from the bed plate.

[solid beacon]

I will update you guys once my project is done, but I am close to finishing the "beta"! I will have to test it first

keep in mind, it's kind of a merge of both hydra and quadZ, still, the cost will be like... idk maybe 1/10th of a hydra if you do not get the mic6 bed, so yeah, not much more expensive than this I suppose?

[subtle citrus]

lmk if you want testing lol

[solid beacon]

https://discord.com/channels/747612067951018075/1306581795541745764