[P5R PC] Take Your Time | [FEMC & Yuri] Story and Gameplay Overhaul

[uncut depot]

tbh i feel like 70% of the time if a player undercuts their own experience by stopping to google then thats kinda on them, im only rly bothered personally if a mechanic or w/e is genuinely inscrutable without a guide
i can intuit the correct answer to a confidant dialogue by just understanding their character, i cant intuit...anything at all about p2 negotiation. fusion kinda edges into this in the sense that i dont get how it works, but is less of an issue once you figure out the ideal is "stronk skill + amp passives + useful support + no weaknesses"

[fresh mulch]

eh im not one to blame players most of the time

[grand cipher]

Hey! I like sumitaba.

[fresh mulch]

if the game ultimately leads a significant amount of people to play a certain way, then it's doing (or not doing)something for that to happen

[fresh mulch]

me too

[fresh mulch]

in balatro's case, the game has a lot of high level play it itself incentivizes with its harder and harder challenges

at this point, you have to be prepared for players to actually try to calculate stuff. its not on them if they just wanna win without rng bs

you could just count yourself or trust that your hand is enough, but what if your grind doesnt pay out because you didnt take some time to use a simple external calculator?

if the game leads a player to play a certain way by its own objectives, then i'd consider the game's fault

another example: speedrunning

some games are just not designed for this at all, and its on the players when they get frustrated when a game has speedrunning-related struggles (like unskippable sections without much going on, rng sections that can kill runs, etc)

but the moment the game adds an internal timer, any annoyances it causes to speedrunners that are not glitch-related are its own fault

oh one big example in persona itself

how to put an objective that can completely ruin the game's enjoyment

in the surface, its 'just an achievement'. but thats not an excuse for such a dogshit experience

at the end of the day, this is an objective and its not the players fault to follow it and get frustrated

[simple knoll]

watching my friend try to get that acheivment was fun

i was sitting back like "not me tho"

[fresh mulch]

i too enjoy watching my friends fall in tears

[uncut depot]

i mean thats kinda drifting from "use a guide" issues to just bad incentives in general

[fresh mulch]

tbf you kinda need a guide for this

or in my case: just load someone's save file to trigger this achievement

after an entire playthrough of not getting the achievement, i was not gonna do it all again

[fresh mulch]

for p2 you just pick the funny options because it probably doesnt matter

demon negotiation in general is something i dont think smt has done well (so far for the games i played)

its either basically guaranteed, or rng hell

[uncut depot]

it matters because if you piss them off they attack you and if they like you you get cards which you need for summoning

[fresh mulch]

obviously. i was talking of the answers themselves. do they have actual guarantees or its just random?

[uncut depot]

they are based on the personality traits that show up

...but also some personality traits give different reaction to the same answer and in those cases it is rng

[fresh mulch]

so you cant even scout realiably

negotiation in my mod is something i'm paying a lot of attention to

i still have to see what people think when actually playing, but in theory, it should be a skillful system that still introduces rng uncertainty. the reason i do this is not because negotiations need to be harder, but because negotiations can easily end battles

ending battles earlier in here is bad, because the mod is balanced around high health enemies that are supposed to take resources to down them

[uncut depot]

i meant in the sense that this started as a convo about information hiding and is now kinda just about bad design broadly

[fresh mulch]

oh true i tend to do that

its mostly because it being tangently related to how devs influence player behavior

[fresh mulch]

the enemies have rng checks on contact, inbetween responses (if not a 🎶 response. so a 💦 has a chance of them to run after first question, and 💢 a chance to attack), and post negotiation (attack instead of persona, give the opposite of what you asked, etc)
however, there are many ways you have to mitigate rng:
1 - instead of trying to negotiate, if you need to get out of the battle, run (which penalizes you with more palace alert that doesnt go down after battle). You don't have a safe option to get personas/money/items without risking something
2 - the lower the enemy's hp, the less likely they are to end negotiation, so beating them is a very reliable way to negotiate, requiring some upfront investment
3 - some shadow types are much more erratic and unpredictable than others. trying to negotiate with a beast is supposed to be a gamble, while negotiating with the more levelheaded types will rarely result in something bad

i am trying to think this through at least

unfortunately, this is all pretty interlocked with the way my mod is specifically balanced, so this system in vanilla would actually be worse imo

[uncut depot]

now im having the thought of demons asking for items if you try to recruit so that it still costs some resource
like "you beat the shit out of me, at least give me some way to patch myself up when i leave?"
maybe ill chuck that in the archon doc

[fresh mulch]

yeah i am thinking of doing that (and still having a chance of them running away with the item)

not huge priority, but the logic for it should be in the _EN files for battletalk

because there is where the hostage logic is

[uncut depot]

i know

[fresh mulch]

funnily enough, not every shadow type can have hostages for some reason

another point to 'why have i never seen this before?'

[uncut depot]

yeah i was gonna say, the post negotiation examples raised an eyebrow lol

[fresh mulch]

yeah, this is made specifically to counteract the negotiation cheese against high hp enemies. vanilla has them in the form of the red shadows in which case you cant negotiate with them in general, but when every enemy is supposed to handle more than one aoa, then a system in place to prevent the player from profiting without risk by just ignoring the battle entirely is a bit unbalanced

plus, this works well with enemies having high hp. in vanilla with every shadow folding like paper, needing to beat them with an inch of their life would be really frustrating

and adding to that, if you still failed against a weakened shadow, you can still often get them downed again without killing them here. it would just be a death sentence to the shadow in vanilla

[wide carbon]

I can send you one if you don't wanna wait

[fresh mulch]

no need i have nothin to post anyway

[wide carbon]

Sounds good 😂

apparently users stopped being able to send invites at the end of 2018

So I've had these invites sitting on my account for 7 years

🫠

[fresh mulch]

me with my ungifted copy of dont starve together sitting on my acc for about a decade

[wide carbon]

lmao

I think I've got a copy of Arma or something sitting in my inventory for around the same time span

[fresh mulch]

oh yeah, on this. this way i still have a chance of failure even when doing it 'right', but in this case its after you've already negotiated and scouted for reactions. i could've added a % for the good option to give a bad result, but that runs into the problem we were just talking about with p2

there is a difference between knowing you did it correctly (meaning you can remember the reactions for another chance), versus a random chance for your response to fail, which ends up hiding the fact that this response can give a good reaction too

im trying to have the rng be more clearly signaled at least

(we can see it later with the demos about how well my theory holds tho lol)

[uncut depot]

to be clear since i realized the way i worded it was maybe ambiguous, if trait A gets an eager response but trait B gets an angry one then its a coinflip between eager and angry. you dont, i think, have trait A able to give both eager and angry by itself

[fresh mulch]

in a way this just makes it more confusing tbh

it does make things more predictable once you know how the system works mechanically, but as a player just trying to understand whats going on this makes negotiation even more confusing

i have to watch out for these traps too

as a dev its easy to get caught up on 'oh this system does this and that so...' while the player has no idea about its inner workings

the solution is to have whats going on under the hood be at least clearly signaled through gameplay, if not just a tutorial telling you outright

(if yall wanna make me yap just talk about game design)

[uncut depot]

i should note that some demons have more traits than others, so theoretically i think you could find a demon with only one or two traits and test reactions on them, but i never did this because...i didnt feel like it

[fresh mulch]

im pretty sure 99% of players wouldnt feel like doing that too

[uncut depot]

like in p5 i negotiate bc it directly gives me that demon as a persona, giving me a small amount of compendium% and fodder that i can use for fusing/powering up an existing persona, but 2 doesnt give you the demon it gives you cards that you can later use to summon the demon, and there isnt rly a compendium just a storage where you can put personas you arent using and dont care to lug around or get rid of, so i only cared to summon when i wanted a specific persona (because the ones i had were falling off) and only cared to negotiate when i needed cards to summon

wow ok i move my laptop and my connectiion just completely shits

cool

[fresh mulch]

p1 and 2 have such weird persona systems

in p1 i didnt have to think at all about what i was making. the combat is surprisingly shallow for its quite interesting grid gimmick

a persona entry with party members being able to swap persona with an actual decent battle system would be nice...

[strong moat]

p2ep is probably the closest you're gonna get

[fresh mulch]

damn its still your birthday

[weary rapids]

He has multiple birthday Girl

[fresh mulch]

unrelated but i like gay bitches

[lunar vector]

Still obsessed with people frequently referring to you as Girl 😂

[fresh mulch]

im just a girl

[grand cipher]

someone pin that

[wide carbon]

what else would we call her?

I guess Yuri is technically an actual name too 😂

[lunar vector]

GK

[strong moat]

this is my year it really makes sense if you think about it

[fresh mulch]

isnt every year your year

[grand cipher]

brawlers can't you just give yourself every role?

even pixels?

[fresh mulch]

now that i finally have the check for haru as pt or not, i can develop the sranks with different text 🔥

this def helps with my freedom when writing honestly

for that one weirdo starting her confidant after she joins despite being available from the beginning

[fresh mulch]

(this was not as simple as it looks like )

[grand cipher]

How's the kamoshida arc going btw?

[fresh mulch]

kamoshida's thing is basically mostly done tbh

im more focused on stuff like haru and makoto rn

but eventwise i shouldnt need much more for kamoshida

and from here it'll be a stretch of gameplay changes

oh yeah, i also need to do some adjustments to death and chariot, but not that much really. but i am having all answers be different from vanilla in the confidants

[grand cipher]

jeez this is only kamoshida. wonder what else you've got in stock for the rest of the game

[fresh mulch]

the project will def slowdown by kaneshiro

this is when a LOT opens up, and I have big plans for makoann makoto

[grand cipher]

so I guess when they apologize to each other, you'll see them a lot of romance scenes with them

[fresh mulch]

i wont say a lot because im not pausing the player for fluff

but it'll be more of a constant background element

[grand cipher]

I see. well good luck cuz of now, this is incredible work. I can see this mod being one of the top ones being made.

[fresh mulch]

also, ann's relationship with makoto will be quite important for hers and shiho's new social link

[sullen drift]

I feel like your game will be very interesting when it comes to Kaneshiro and Okamura. Kanishiro Npcs I think are already lurking in Shibuya (and probably Shinjuku even) long before even Madarame.

I think maybe there could have been a scrapped story to have there be a longer Makoto investigation on Kaneshiro. Her knowing all about him always seems like it comes out of nowhere

I always thought her confidant was going to dovetail into it as well or imply it did.

But very excited for how Haru changes will impact Okamura’s palace and the aftermath

[fresh mulch]

if sumi and futaba kiss, wouldnt one of them have to take off their glasses to not clink them?

||~~there are other occasions where taking off the glasses is advised ~~||

[lunar vector]

No sound is more erotic for the nerdy lesbian couple than the CLACK of thick-rimmed glasses when you both forget to take them off 🤓❤️🤓

[fresh mulch]

i wish

where is my nerdy wife

[grand cipher]

what if one of them turn their head?

[fresh mulch]

there wont be a french kiss then. it will be on the (upper) cheek

[sullen drift]

What’s super adorable about Futaba Sumi is they are both in a journey of finding themselves as people, it also is probably their first real relationship.

Such a great Yuri pairing! Like I see them comparing notes of impossible female ideals and how they had to just be themselves and

OMIGOD THEY ARE SO CUTE.

-now saves you from the additional 13 paragraph Yuri essay that is still being written in Fushikio’s head with lots of Chibi-

[fresh mulch]

they should marry

[quiet prism]

I decided to add some yuri. This is The Lovers Card from thepledge's Tarotica mod over on Lover's Lab cropped to avoid any of the NSFW material.

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-walk-funny-animals-cats-cat-walking-upright-gif-11888656

i am gay and i must sleep

tomorrow i'll probably actually for real maybe this time work on haru's rank 1

https://tenor.com/view/meow-cat-cat-trip-cat-fall-kitty-gif-14426836968979840999

good night

[fresh mulch]

holy shit

the last second vote secured sumitaba the W

[fresh mulch]

Mornin gays

[quiet prism]

Morning

[fresh mulch]

i wonder

does sumi have a single top bone in her 🤔

[uncut depot]

i mean we joke but topping is a preference not a personality type

[fresh mulch]

i know

[uncut depot]

like tbh the one "but anns too sweet to dom shiho!!" has been stuck in my craw since the exchange happened because doms are generally perfectly decent often sweet people when not busy domming actually

[fresh mulch]

aftercare is important after all

[shy flint]

But Sumitaba tho

[rustic shadow]

Ngl ann x futaba is my favorite futaba ship 😅.

[fresh mulch]

dw you'll get plenty of it here

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-broken-cat-cat-drinking-cat-licking-cat-air-gif-20661740

[sullen drift]

Never take advice from someone who calls themselves the King of Mysteries and plays cards as The Deadly Rain Of The Frog.

Because Obviously Fushikio is naturally stoned.

but she love yuri

Omigod Futaba and Sumi would be so funny stoned

[fresh mulch]

ann is making the shadows gay smh

[fresh mulch]

i have been decompiling the p5r exe for hours

huh i was actually expecting this to be a few gigs

[uncut depot]

nah thats all the cpks

[fresh mulch]

it definitively feels like a few gigs with how slow its being

2gb 😭

i think i have 16 ram or smth

[uncut depot]

denuvo moment

[fresh mulch]

denuvo affects the decompilation time?

[uncut depot]

yeah skob

[fresh mulch]

just ignore it smh my head is ghidra stupid

||just in case... /s||

i was playing into the breach while i've been waiting for this

very good game recommend

no yuri tho so its a 5/10

[uncut depot]

is there yaoi at least

[fresh mulch]

no. there is a lot of bugs and dead people tho

literal bugs. not computer bugs

[fresh mulch]

bet i can start ff7 for my first time ever and beat it before this is done?

but fr, i've been meaning to broaden my jrpg horizons. who knows if that'll help with my creative process

the mod's demo comes first tho

i guess i'll just work on the haru event while this gets decompiled

[fresh mulch]

...haru lives in a mansion or an apartment?

i guess a mansion?

yeah not looking like an apartment

why is there collision here

[grand cipher]

possible unused upstairs

[fresh mulch]

no. im flying

im talking of the stuff dow there like the table and walls

omg i just realised

since you can start the confidant from before or after haru joins, I will have to have some slightly different dialogue for some parts to reflect this, based on whether haru is in the party or not, even on the first rank

but I also remember that I had planned to make haru romanceable right before the okumura palace, so I ALSO need to have romance-only dialogue when it would make sense

thankfully this is not that difficult. but keeping track of multiple versions in the same event is going to be a bit obnoxious

[fresh mulch]

romanceable regardless of social link status. story-based if you will

[shy flint]

so that means, a version of the social link pre and post phantom theif, and also pre and post romance?

[fresh mulch]

pre pt and pre romance are the same at least

but yeah

i guess when i make her romanceable by that point, its right before you get blocked from being able to actually continue her slink because of story events, only unlocking after the okumura arc is done

so this makes the timeline easier to manage

[shy flint]

Like how Sojiro requires you to do story progress before you can hit progress at points in his social link?

[fresh mulch]

most confidants will have this type of timegate here

its just that her confidant will be temporarily blocked during the okumura palace deadline

an example of how i'll handle this

[fresh mulch]

she's just like me fr fr

[simple knoll]

fellow cat lover??

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-leaf-vibes-vibing-sleeping-cat-gif-17297041570420202318

[fresh mulch]

still not done...

[sullen drift]

Haru lives in a penthouse apartment she secretly to be closer to Shujin.

She lives there with Big Bang Betty, a sentient Anti Shadow Weapon she somehow built out of vegetables with the help of one of her bear friends. The apartment is so her sister can focus on modeling and growing Kumaquats. one of the bears, Kumanani, also lives there.

Haru is really talented at growing vegetables.

[shy flint]

Great Vegtables

[fresh mulch]

i might actually have to leave the pc on to decompile this overnight

wth

[wide carbon]

Found this art and I thought of you https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/1q412ug/ocedit_second_year_nerds/

[sterile mica]

Reddit • Persona5 • vxreddit

[wide carbon]

Me when I see Yuri online

[fresh mulch]

they should kiss

[wide carbon]

[fresh mulch]

im gonna sleep and hopefully i wake up to a decompiled p5r exe

night homos

[wide carbon]

night

I tried to find a good kissy art to put in there

but couldnt find a good one

[fresh mulch]

vote

[wide carbon]

Hard poll

many good choices

need ranked choice

[fresh mulch]

Yoshida sweep

[quiet prism]

Uh....

[wide carbon]

clearly best girl

the people have spoken

[fresh mulch]

I couldnt sleep so i started writing a bit of the makoanntaba oneshot i have in my head...

If i ever post a fic, this may be my first one

Anyway gnight for reals now

[wide carbon]

I was still Yoshida pilled when I started reading this and misread this as you writing some Yoshida shipping fic and I almost had a stroke

[sullen drift]

The sad thing about Yoshida is there aren’t any really good Yaoi targets for him.

Although m… I could see him warming up to a Teacher who stopped blaming herself for the death of a student and focused on her existing ones…

I’m terrible with hetero ships but I could see that.

[wide carbon]

Let the man be single 😛

He's married to the country 😂

But yeah I can't imagine any ships with him lol. Seems more like a father figure than anything

[fresh mulch]

morning

[fresh mulch]

damn, lavenza and takemi are in the lead (ignoring the meme pick)

https://tenor.com/view/persona-lavenza-persona5-explosion-head-gif-20357420

[uncut depot]

what about the little girl with the elderly dog

[fresh mulch]

true...

[quiet prism]

takes deep breath and let it out slowly

[fresh mulch]

I think its the transylvania flag or smth

[left hinge]

That not even a question.

We know yoshida clear

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-meme-sleepy-sleepy-cat-wake-up-cat-gif-1003644689655948813

i keep falling asleep during the day lately. it never used to be a problem 😭

[rare oriole]

yuri deficiency, up your intake

[sullen drift]

Yuri update:

Two of the female bears Haru befriended in the woods, Kumanani and Kumanai are dating. They have basically adopted a tiny bear cub with red eyes named Akuma.
Haru rescued them from a poacher and the two mamas fell in love with little Akuma.
A few phantom thieves were strangely disappointed the gay bears were female and actual bears.

But everyone crowded around for pictures of the gay mama bears and the cub.

This has been “Fushikio’s random Yuri”

[wide carbon]

implying the Yoshida love is fake

[fresh mulch]

holy shit

how

there's so much yapping here damn

this thread is only about 3 months old too

(... wait, it has been this long?)

[edgy field]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-solid4-mgs4-solid-snake-old-snake-becoming-old-gif-24179307

[fresh mulch]

okay this is too unrealistic

i guess my new year resolution will be at least getting to futaba by this year

oh and give 'being a butch' a chance

@lunar vector how do i butch

[lunar vector]

Avoid makeup and underwire and pick a few androgynous clothing brands to slowly take over your entire wardrobe 😅

TomboyX is the one I shill for but it's annoying to get outside of the US...

[fresh mulch]

im already doing most of that

my lazy ass likes the idea of makeup but i dont do it

thinking about it, when was the last time i used a bra? 🤔

[lunar vector]

I guess the rest is just like? Carry bags and open doors for fems?? Lmao.

[uncut depot]

i find underwire physically uncomfortable anyway, so...:v

[lunar vector]

These things are ultimately just vibes, honestly, so the best is to like. Pick a butch idol and emulate them until the style is comfortable to you.

[fresh mulch]

... i dont know any

[fresh mulch]

yeah most bras i use dont have it

[fresh mulch]

that requires touching grass tho

[lunar vector]

Look up lesbian celebrities and drag kings until you find one lmao

Sometimes the examples end up very specific and deeply embarrassing. Like Kate McKinnon is not butch but her drag as Justin Bieber is unfortunately peak to me 😂 Same with Lady Gaga's Jo Calderone drag. So it goes 😅😅😅

OH, Van from Yellowjackets is peak long haired butch.

[fresh mulch]

i have 0 knowledge of 99.99% of celebrities

[fresh mulch]

looking at the images... i guess im already butch?

this new year resolution was quick

https://tenor.com/view/yes-yes-sir-yayy-kataman-gif-12260883688244422951

hi guys im butch ig

[lunar vector]

Dreams do come true 🥳

[fresh mulch]

when do i get a gf now

[simple knoll]

tbh i wear sports bras every day simply because they're more comfortable

before i even considered myself butch/non binary

practicality baby

[fresh mulch]

i wear nothing because im lazy

and i'd say im slightly above average

[simple knoll]

i cannot do that lmao

i am cursed

[simple knoll]

uhh the government will provide you with one soon

[uncut depot]

same

[fresh mulch]

time to go back to this

i feel fired up now

[wide carbon]

Is your name false advertising?

[fresh mulch]

damn lavenza won

[fresh mulch]

yes

[wide carbon]

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/lavenza-gif-15085465953291349685

[lunar vector]

It's an aspirational name 😅

[fresh mulch]

?

[wide carbon]

I was doing that cause she disappeared

the gif

[fresh mulch]

hmm is there anything i can improve with lavenza...?

i guess royal already helped with the third semester hangouts

is her boss fight good?

[wide carbon]

What have you done with her so far?

[fresh mulch]

nothing because im at the first month lol

[wide carbon]

Do you mean like character/writing wise or combat

Is she replacing the twins in your mod?

[fresh mulch]

no

unfortunately there isnt enough time pre 3rd semester for lavenza

[wide carbon]

[sullen drift]

I think on some level I am always chasing Colin Farrel in Tigerland. I saw a bunch of his early Irish and Us films when I was coming out and his early Irish look really stuck with me

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-the-essay-hilarious-haha-gif-3565665

if anyone has thoughts on hp cost of skills in vanilla

would something like 32% be too much for example?

[fresh mulch]

while we are at it, useful poll time

(i cant wait to finish the demo so i can actually have gameplay discussions)

im gonna sleep. good night homos

[fresh mulch]

Mornin

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/eimiko-yaebaal-yae-miko-raiden-shogun-raiden-ei-gif-12344458764408454734

[fresh mulch]

the results are interesting

i wonder why atlus has been making a move towards sp-costing phys skills

assuming that sp is a scarce resource:
in theory, hp-costing skills are much better for resource management along a whole dungeon, and they work wonders for short fights, but they can bring you closer to death in long ones, requiring having a healer on you often (but can be easily healed using money as a resource to buy healing items)
sp-costing skills are kind of the opposite. you have to consider if its worth using on this random mob, when they could be crucial for longer fights, specially since sp powers not just attacking skills, but any other non-phys skill including healing, debuffs, etc

i kinda vibe with the theory of this system at least

ive mentioned it before here, but making gun skills cost SP and having ryuji learn snap (medium gun) early makes him a beast

he can dish out a lot of damage without risking himself to tank better

i kinda like what i have going on here

[fresh mulch]

assuming that sp is a scarce resource
yes i know that this is the equivalent of "assuming a spherical cow..."

[strong moat]

I've never felt HP costing skills were all that expensive really, as in I feel comfortable using them regularly but it is definitely nice to have a healer or sufficient items to deal with the loss in HP

I also find it interesting that it's percentage based. it makes them basically level independent

[fresh mulch]

i wish they just showed the hp percentage of the skill

its hard to visualize how much they really cost with showing the hp value

[strong moat]

I mean the HP value is how much they cost lol

the HP value is more useful to show than the percentage

[fresh mulch]

the thing is that since it scales off of max hp, as you level up the value shown changes, so its kinda hard to follow for me

ideally both the % and hp value would be present

[strong moat]

it does, but also showing the value is more useful than the % if you had to choose one because you would want to know that it costs exactly this much HP relative to how much HP you have left

[fresh mulch]

with smth like "25%" i know that i can only use 3 times without healing (because i would be too low hp for the 4th). while i have to do maths to get a grasp of how often i can use a skill with only the value

[strong moat]

well on the opposite end of things, say you aren't at 100% HP. that mental math instantly becomes useless

showing the flat value is much more useful if you had to choose one and that's why they do exactly that. you can make the exact same argument for SP costing skills

[fresh mulch]

my eyes have always skimmed hp cost value because of that. it doesnt mean much without going through the menus and doing the comparison

i guess its just how different brains view the same thing

[strong moat]

(you can use agi 30 times before running out of SP for example)

[fresh mulch]

which level?

[strong moat]

so showing the flat value just makes more sense but showing clearly that it's percentage based would probably reduce any confusion

[strong moat]

idk I just made that up to prove a point

you can just fix this by adding a percentage in the description of the skill

[fresh mulch]

i wonder how common it is for newcomers in smt to get confused at the hp cost

eventually you notice it scales, but its not like the game tells you

[strong moat]

I'm unsure. in persona I think I figured it out pretty quickly but it has me questioning why they never did a flat HP option too

like yeah maybe it would be ok for lunge to use like no HP at lvl 99. you're lvl 99 using a low level skill

[fresh mulch]

i can barely fit any more stuff without start abbreviating to oblivion

[strong moat]

how do your descriptions look rn?

I'm surprised it would be an issue

[fresh mulch]

ST Stat | G. Acc(99%) | L. Crit(5%)
Colossal++(650) Phys dmg
to all foes. Huge(50%) Dizzy.

yes im just adding + to colossal variants

p5 has so little room for text. but better than p3 at least

... i'll never complain of how little i can fit in the trait text ever again

wtf is this

https://tenor.com/view/roomba-cat-on-my-way-ride-the-pet-collective-gif-14273605

[strong moat]

that's a lot of stuff LMAO

I could see ways to shorten it though

[fresh mulch]

i do want to show all this info at least

[fresh mulch]

like how?

i heard in the p5 modding chat that having 100 in accuracy basically makes it unable to miss. an offensive skill that doesnt miss could be interesting 🤔
i think it being a gun skill with crit chance would help with utility?

[strong moat]

650 phys dmg to all foes. 99% acc | 5% crit | 50% dizzy | St stat

OR

Colossal++ phys dmg to all foes. Huge chance of dizzy. Scales to St.

something along those lines

you need to choose whether to be precise (650, 99%, etc) or vague (colossal++, huge, etc)

[fresh mulch]

i am keeping the damage tiers at least. the rest can be just number ig

would help contextualize the number at least

[strong moat]

yeah just limit how much you do that

bc I think it's redundant

[fresh mulch]

fine

[strong moat]

if you have an exact number you don't need to know that it's "colossal" damage. you have the exact value right there.

[fresh mulch]

i think they dont use damage numbers because of it being less intuitive? specially because of the formula

they could at least show accuracy smh

[strong moat]

even if sqrt damage wasn't a thing, it's better imo to be vague

it is indeed more intuitive to have low medium etc as descriptive terms

[fresh mulch]

one problem i have with vague is that when there are two skills with the same 'category', you dont know which one is better

[strong moat]

so the other reason why vague is good

[fresh mulch]

i couldnt be arsed to think about which phys skills i was using in p4

[strong moat]

agi does iirc 40 damage normally

but what does that mean

it certainly won't do 40 damage fixed

it will do something else and that's before applying the rng multiplier

[strong moat]

to be fair p4 has a unique issue there

it did not correctly update its descriptions so its damage tiers are inconsistent

[fresh mulch]

there's that too. i think the samey-skill issue would be helped by at least hinting at accuracy or crit if they differ from the default?

because some skills have interesting tradeoffs that you need to learn from a wiki

pq2 sweep

i am shocked that the abysmal accuracy is not in the description. i guess you learn this one the hard way

(lucky punch)

ryuji's second social link rank(first non-automatic one) giving taunting aura and +2 ag makes him kinda insane early game

i kind of want more cases like that, where doing an extra thing before heading to the palace gives you a huge benefit. i already have with every confidant rank giving at least one skill to a party member, but messing with stats is fun too

[uncut depot]

the answer is if that mudkip is below 1/3 hp its water moves gain a power boost

i know this not from the game but from being in the competitive sauce as long as i remember

[fresh mulch]

yes i know lol

i messed a bit with emerald decomp and trying to get a decent ability description was awful

it's so tiny

[lunar vector]

Pokemon games have such hard constraints to work under, it's kind of crazy when you pay attention.

[fresh mulch]

~~i wish i was under hard constraints ~~

[lunar vector]

[uncut depot]

mood

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/stinky-loser-tiny-kitten-explode-gif-15623895175038521381

[fresh mulch]

>be me
>work all day every day on one thing only for about 3 months
>burns out

(no way i'll drop this project. i just need to take more breaks)

[lunar vector]

Breaks are good We'll still be here 🫡

[fresh mulch]

thanks. i just need some other stimulus for a bit

im still always 'working' on the project, even if its planning in my head (i have the inability to write anything down)

[lunar vector]

You've been working suuuper intensely. Outside stimuli are good for creativity (in addition to not burning out lol)... otherwise it's easy for the creative juices to run dry 🥲

[fresh mulch]

im already used to dry spells

i think i might play p5 tactica

could actually be useful here too

[fresh mulch]

wait a minute

i don think i've ever seen a birthday acknowledged in a persona game

like, at least a side comment could be nice

... another thing to add to the mod

[uncut depot]

ryujis is on the same day as the funni fishing event with him and kawakami which is certainly a choice of how to spend his bday

[fresh mulch]

Makoto: April 23, so we the players can't see her birthday since this is still during kamoshida... but like, dont we get a weird amount of niijima household pov in vanilla? (because the original idea was for joker to live there i think?)
i think i could use this to expand on the sae and makoto strained relationship quite early on... the thing is that it wouldn't make much sense to give her a pov for now, because regardless of how much we know of makoto, in the story she's still just a npc with a portrait

i could also just... change the dates

[simple knoll]

for akechi's birthday you can have joker be like "i'm seeing announcements for his birthday all over the city... maybe i should text him"

tbh i like your idea. a birthday mod would be fun

i might do that when i've done my other mod obligations...

[fresh mulch]

a more vanilla compliant bday mod could actually be nice yeah

the more i think about it, the weirder it is that persona doesnt have birthdays

i think the only one was the p4 tower kid?

[uncut depot]

you havent met him when his birthday happens though

[fresh mulch]

just move it

[simple knoll]

i thought you have

shit

[uncut depot]

6/2

[simple knoll]

you meet him a few days after

damn it :(

[fresh mulch]

yeah i'll be moving the bdays for when its most suitable

[fresh mulch]

thinking about it, i could legit voice rei and it would fit with how deep my voice is

i wouldnt tho. just thought it was a fun observation

[fresh mulch]

holy shit

futaba's birthday event could be so wholesome

yeah im moving this to like, november or smth

what is this pose

[weary rapids]

You might be cooking Girl

[fresh mulch]

im doing it mark my words

[grand cipher]

the better question is why she has a third breast

[fresh mulch]

thats called a ribcage

[edgy field]

she knows ball

[fresh mulch]

all the major event changes and fully custom events

someone pin this plz

not this pin

[uncut depot]

i brainfarted

[fresh mulch]

i thought it was a joke ngl

[fresh mulch]

anyway, i've gone so far

i've been wanting to thank yall for following this

cause i def wouldve switched projects otherwise by now lmao

to a yuriful year i say

[simple knoll]

she's gotta show off her flat ass

[fresh mulch]

i mean, im not an ass connoisseur but it doesnt look flat to me

[simple knoll]

well on her model it is

[fresh mulch]

how do you know that

[simple knoll]

i looked at it

[fresh mulch]

fair

[edgy field]

I think it's just the angle that gives off the illusion

[fresh mulch]

surely there's another topic

[edgy field]

I'm just the messenger

[fresh mulch]

guys i evolved

>be me
>be super femme
>start writing butch lady
>is butch now

(i still like being femme)

[strong moat]

yes P4 is not very good about it lol. you can really tell that from a combat perspective it's a P3 romhack

q2's descriptions aren't half bad though. I think q is the same way?

[fresh mulch]

i dont remember it has been ages

right might as well do another useful poll while im slacking

(plz pick seriously)

[simple knoll]

in the context of this mod 3 days

vanilla, 1

[fresh mulch]

not taking enough time smh

[simple knoll]

over 3 is overdoing it i think

i want time for confidants and stuff

[fresh mulch]

sounds reasonable

see? im improving
i resisted the urge to make a poll about who tops: futaba or sumi

[simple knoll]

they're both bottoms

[fresh mulch]

well someone has to step up eventually

[lunar vector]

Futaba would step up at some point 🙂‍↕️

[fresh mulch]

would still bottom from the top, but hey thats a start

this chat is super productive. there's no offtopic in ba sing se

[strong moat]

i do like dungeons taking more than 1 day but i think p5 feels structured around the palaces being one day affairs at a certain point

or maybe that's me being used to how p5 normally is

[fresh mulch]

im already changing most of the structure by this point

but yeah it seems they realized players want it done asap?

[strong moat]

well you can only change so much right

but yeah i think so

even p4 kinda has that happen to it (especially p4g)

[fresh mulch]

honestly, it's the devs fault for pressuring the player to finish it, specially by blocking confidants when taking too long (i dont remember if p5 was like that, but i sure remember this being a p4 thing)

and its not like there is much incentive to 'prepare' anyway

[strong moat]

p5 absolutely does this and i think it's worse than p4

but tbf the fundamental issue you're talking about is not related to dungeon length

the only Persona games that don't suffer from the need to finish dungeons early are P3(F) and to a much lesser extent P3P

P4/5 are automatically filtered out because dungeons are during the same time slot as social links

P3R is filtered out by increased night hangouts + a very very strong incentive to put off Tartarus runs until the last day before a full moon. P3P is somewhat filtered out by the latter although the incentives are weaker

[fresh mulch]

now to rack my brain thinking about how this can be addressed...

[uncut depot]

as a player you could draw out how many days you spend on a dungeon but thats cutting into time you could be spending on other things
and honestly thats kinda true whether infiltration is in afternoon or night but it becomes more significant the higher value those other activities are (with sls ofc being the highest value)...that being said, i still tried to clear tartarus blocks in as short a time as i could even in fes even with there just not being that much to do at night lol

[fresh mulch]

i was going to verify this, and, well...

i forgor i changed this

i was messing around

[fresh mulch]

yeah this is hard to solve. atlus probably thinks it doesnt need solving, and tbf it doesnt really

[fresh mulch]

(this is not an actual change. i was just testing evtui preview)

[quiet prism]

But it brings up so many interesting ideas

[fresh mulch]

(what in specific in this conversation?)

[strong moat]

yeah at the end of the day you should not railroad players into forcibly taking more time than they want to either

you can only really aim to make it harder

[fresh mulch]

yeah i want to avoid madarame-esque multiple day palace

i want it to come from gameplay

one thing is that bosses will constantly come with alert, and you can only reduce alert levels by getting out of the palace (and waiting i think?), or using items that require the player to spend time anyway to craft, and they forgo lockpick and other items for it

basically a illusion of choice really

[fresh mulch]

taking direct control from the player in general doesnt go well. like, even the meaningless dialogue choices in persona games are there to add some interactivity to what basically is a cutscene

(also roleplay obv)

learning how to guide player behavior towards your intended experience is not easy and requires a bunch of playtesting

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/aya-oosawa-tgswiiwagaa-yuri-gif-16447806436332085012

good night gays

[fresh mulch]

I just realized that most of my knowledge of trans folks comes from memes and fanfics 😭 (tbf the fics can get quite informative and educational... yes even the naughty ones)

Idk i should watch uh... contrapoints maybe?

(Help im clueless)

I also realized i dont know that much of butch culture

Im a gay failure

[lunar vector]

Some knowledge can only be gained by going to The Club (TM) 😔

[fresh mulch]

Where is it

[lunar vector]

(The Club of 2000s music fame)

So like. Gay bars. Lmao.

[fresh mulch]

Touch gras????

[lunar vector]

Sorry, that part does require touching grass 😔

[fresh mulch]

I wanna touch ladies not grass

[lunar vector]

Internet gays barely even know what a stud is. They can not be trusted to teach you about butchness, alas.

[fresh mulch]

Maybe for fhis new yeat resolution... i go to a gay bar once

(Yes im typing on my phone fhats why i fat fingre evwry key)

[uncut depot]

touch grass will lead to touch lady

<== also does not touch grass

[fresh mulch]

According to the internet, stud is a black lesbian thing?

My first time hearing of this

[uncut depot]

(incidentally have philosophytube coming out video)

[fresh mulch]

Will remember

||Yknow, yukiko's 'hot stud' thing...||

[lunar vector]

Exactly 😅

[fresh mulch]

Wow uh.... ||she's pretty ||

[uncut depot]

lmao

[fresh mulch]

I really should sleep tho holy shit

Gnight

[uncut depot]

night

[fresh mulch]

Morning homos

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/mayburi-yuri-guilty-gear-bridget-gif-10837523672681848416

(i never played guilty gear)

[fresh mulch]

guys what level of gay yall are

[fresh mulch]

i started writing a harutaba oneshot and holy shit i think i love the dynamic i gave them

~~its a dom/sub dynamic 😈 ~~

[fresh mulch]

i wonder if there are any cutscenes besides the beach one that will have to become an event

because... well

i wonder what the topless laws are in japan

what would rei wear tho?

(also, everyone points out this ann and ryuji interaction and okay, sure. but sorry its just so weird????)

oh yeah i was also going to make the desert ride an event too

[lunar vector]

All of them, ideally, because they are all ugly and bad

[fresh mulch]

thanks youtube

[lunar vector]

All of the animated cutscenes are semi-canon to me at best because they are so blatantly from an earlier draft of the plot (and tone) and everything else has to accommodate that obvious fact. Like... they were all done before the earliest beta we have access to, when the plot was still far from done. Why they felt the need to commission these so early and use them regardless of how well they work in the final game, I have no idea...

[fresh mulch]

so true

i think i'll keep those that i think fit and scrap any that is too off for me for any reason honestly

[lunar vector]

I strongly support this

[fresh mulch]

more event making...

https://tenor.com/view/yes-yes-sir-yayy-kataman-gif-12260883688244422951

[lunar vector]

😈

[fresh mulch]

im trying to get a particular cutscene in the beginning of the game that really bothers me

sigh i'll just start ng

no way to call movie in modmenu. awesome

[fresh mulch]

oh yeah ajda what do you think

im a baby butch sry

[lunar vector]

Something in this range?

Sports bra + athletic shorts might be the look for her.

(Would also mean you only have to edit the top, lol.)

[fresh mulch]

yeah i was thinking of that

[fresh mulch]

this one

there are two things in here that feels kinda off

[edgy field]

Well the game was supposed to release way earlier before it was delayed.

[fresh mulch]

i'll start with the worse one:
why the fuck are we getting a boob shot of a woman being assaulted wtf

for fucks sake anime

[fresh mulch]

how long was it delayed for again?

[edgy field]

Fairly sure it was supposed to release in 2013-2015.

[fresh mulch]

thats quite a big range for a release date estimate

[edgy field]

You're quite a big range

[fresh mulch]

yes

[lunar vector]

True about the delays and development hell, but I don't see the benefit of keeping the low-quality animations after all that 🤷

Just leave them out at that point...

[edgy field]

The op is pretty baller though

[fresh mulch]

sunk cost fallacy and for most people they dont care much

[lunar vector]

The OP blatantly coming off of the animator's recent work on Yuri!! On Ice 😂 (it is good, just funny)

[edgy field]

It's funny that the op still has haru's old personality

[fresh mulch]

my first time playing looking at some of the cutscenes i was like '...okay?' before mentally moving on when the next thing happens.

[fresh mulch]

right, the second one

[lunar vector]

That kinda seems like what they intend with how they handle the events immediately after each one. So again. Why even keep them!!

[fresh mulch]

the arsene thing in the cutscene... why is it there?

[edgy field]

to be cool

and awesome

[lunar vector]

But they're not 😔

[edgy field]

skill issue

[lunar vector]

Well, Arsene is cool, lol.

[fresh mulch]

it definitively is from before they had the whole metaverse figured out

[lunar vector]

I support the Arsene thing.

Not for any plot reasons, but it's the least of the animation crimes.

[fresh mulch]

yeah thats why its the least worse problem

it is just so random tho

[edgy field]

one of these days I need to get back into 3D animation to redo the anime scenes.

[fresh mulch]

reminds me a bit of this scrapped bit of an event that made it in

like, it is cool and ominous, but it still feels random and disjointed for the sake of introducing the cool element early

nitpick at the end of the day

[edgy field]

thats why it's unused

It's a shame they voiced this scene and not many of the other cool unused scenes.

[fresh mulch]

yeah im pretty sure they thought it was unnecessary too

[fresh mulch]

well the normal scene is basically this one with the tail cutoff sooo

[edgy field]

🤓

[lunar vector]

(It would make me so happy if the event editor could help enable a project like this eventually )

[fresh mulch]

easier prerendered cutscene editing would be fire

[lunar vector]

EVTUI mocap support 🥹

[edgy field]

one day EVTUI will support editing the entirety of p5r

[simple knoll]

lmao

[fresh mulch]

rip cbt and bgme

[edgy field]

cbt? hardly know her

[fresh mulch]

feck it. the last thing i'll do before the april demo is substituting that cutscene with a bigass event

imagine the april demo is released in april

4/18 in specific

[lunar vector]

That would be a good excuse to keep putting it off, if ever there was one 🤭

[uncut depot]

ryuji boat save

[uncut depot]

it was announced for 2014 and then got delayed to 2016

[edgy field]

yea

[lunar vector]

Still doesn't fit in the final version where they barely mention his leg at all after the first arc 🤷

[edgy field]

thats not a fault of the cutscene though

[lunar vector]

It is one of the better-looking ones, true.

[fresh mulch]

i do like that the animation team had his animations reflect his injured leg at least

(the 3d model)

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/disintegrate-gif-22469816

characters once their arc is over:

[lunar vector]

LMAO, real.

JRPG problem in general

[uncut depot]

junpeitrue

[edgy field]

I really feel like they should've limited the cast to a smaller number of characters or something. But keep haru.

[fresh mulch]

you know when the pts each 'confront' one of shido's portraitless guys?

[uncut depot]

i was just about to make a joke about stale haru screentime jokes

[fresh mulch]

i have a feeling that this was supposed to be them continuing their arc....?

it was so surface level i forgot most of them

[edgy field]

Well no I think it was supposed to represent the end, where they've all grown.

[simple knoll]

it was meant to be a conclusion to their arc

[fresh mulch]

the prison fits that better

[edgy field]

two things can be true

[uncut depot]

i dont think thats rly an arc thing so much as just wanting to show off all their skills

the boat not the prison

[simple knoll]

then they end up fighting them anyway

which I always found stupid

[fresh mulch]

i wouldnt say that this was to conclude their arc really. show how far they've gone is more apt, but not the finale

[uncut depot]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/032/632/No_No_He's_Got_A_Point_Banner.jpg

[fresh mulch]

mfers making us sit through the formulation of a plan that takes wholeass minutes just for them to fight anyway in the end

i hate this trope seriously

and they do it like what, 7 times???

[uncut depot]

its funny cus the pts basically get what they need without the fight but then fight the conspiracy assholes anyway because they hate them

[simple knoll]

I love making plans that avoid fighting. that's why I love how baldur's gate gives you the same amount of experience if you strategies your way out of a situation

[fresh mulch]

the cognitive, fake conspiracy assholes to be clear

[simple knoll]

why did autocorrect change strategize into strategies smh

[fresh mulch]

now another reason i really dont think it should be the conclusion of their arc: ann's one

[uncut depot]

(which is understandable emotionally, the conspiracy guys are yknow. assholes who have done morally reprehensible shit. but at that point maybe save yourself the effort and just go in with the intent of beating them up)

[edgy field]

well that's kinda the point, it's meant to show their growth as people. And them not giving into the easy way out. It's executed poorly but that's what they're trying to convey.

[fresh mulch]

it was just an excuse to have the girls in swimsuit again while saying how much of a pervert this evil guy is (but we are not we are the good guys)

[uncut depot]

im psure its stated actually that theyre in this weird limbo between cognition and real shadow...somehow...

[fresh mulch]

im confused

[simple knoll]

yeah

shido's involved in tons of cognitive reesearch

I think Morgana or futaba says it's their actual shadows in there

[fresh mulch]

(another case of this that annoys me is the beach events. where apparently when the good guys harass women just minding their business on the beach, its fine. but when it happens to our women by perverted guys (we are not), its bad)

sorry i had to let this shit out

[uncut depot]

well. actually i guess they probably wouldnt give the recommendation letters if you went straight into beating them up, but still save yourselves the sp lol

(not that sp is exactly rare :v)

[edgy field]

Why didn't joker just use the teleport command in the p5r mod menu smh

[fresh mulch]

is he stupid

[fresh mulch]

i didnt remember this wow

in that case, we should be beating them up anyway why going for complicated plans

[fresh mulch]

steal from their corpse

[uncut depot]

i know youre joking but im fascinated by the implication that theyd just. have signed letters premade and sitting on their person

(as opposed to writing them on the fly which i assume is whats supposed to be happening since the whole idea is that its a proxy for networking)

[fresh mulch]

beat them up and force them to write it if they dont wanna die then

[lunar vector]

Like the letter from that old Dear Sister video...

All of Shido's cronies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmd1qMN5Yo0

[fresh mulch]

what is happening

[lunar vector]

[edgy field]

I wish they did more development on cognitions. They're kinda just there and thats that.

[fresh mulch]

i liked how p3 focused on the shadows. its the cool worldbuilding part after all

[edgy field]

very true

[uncut depot]

now im thinking of an alternate scenario where the rec letter events are interactable and if you pick the "right" options you get out of having to fight them. like the 9th palace questionnaire i guess
on the other hand, tradeoff: it is the player making the decisions in the exchange rather than the party member now

[fresh mulch]

p4's rules seem to be pretty clear too, which is important for the murder mystery thing

p5's is... confusing to say the least

[fresh mulch]

i actually went out of my way to fight every admin in okumura's for the exp

[uncut depot]

understandable have a nice day

[fresh mulch]

i'd pick the wrong options

[edgy field]

counter idea. It's based off of the rank of the party member's confidant

[fresh mulch]

wait isnt there a unused 'get exp' thing for the overworld?

[edgy field]

Yeah for chests

you can use it though it's just a command

[lunar vector]

Oh, this is peak.

[uncut depot]

confusing isnt the word id use, its shrimply a representation of how the ruler sees the person being represented
mostly i just wish theyd explain how in the fuck that 7th palace hybrid cognition/shadow thing works instead of just "oh yeah, thats a thing, not that itll have meaningful consequence"

[fresh mulch]

could actually have the right option give you exp without having to fight

[lunar vector]

Or even like, it's a gimme if you have them high enough, but it takes more player effort (or is impossible) if not.

[fresh mulch]

yeah i think i'll be stealing these ideas

[edgy field]

not if I steal them first

[uncut depot]

also my fix for the 7th palace ann thing would probably not be too far off spiritually from my fix for the painting thing, in the sense that id just have it be her idea :V

[fresh mulch]

talking about optional bosses if you mess up... what if okumura's chief bot puzzles were randomized...?

i think it shouldnt be too hard. generate a random number when infiltration starts, save it as a custom count that wont be altered from here, and the puzzle configurations would just look at the seed we made to determine them

[edgy field]

if you get it wrong you instantly die

[fresh mulch]

i should really learn to use this someday

[edgy field]

if you get it wrong you become haru

[fresh mulch]

thats good tho

[edgy field]

irl

[fresh mulch]

thats good tho

i'd kill to be that beautiful ngl

[edgy field]

Okay would the world collapse if everyone was turned into haru?

[fresh mulch]

the world would heal

[uncut depot]

i think youd basically be shuffling the fnpc procedures for the bots of the same color, i would assume they all have different procedures normally so ig itd involve hooking all of them, checking your count or w/e, and then picking which set of "original" behavior to run based on that
and also changing where the game puts you after the encounter ig

[edgy field]

it might

[fresh mulch]

yeah should be very simple honestly

i just worry over the battles

atlus can get quite hardcody with them

[uncut depot]

well theyre just small-time minibosses so i imagine theyre not that full of atlus moment

[fresh mulch]

can we call them minibosses if they instadie?

[uncut depot]

does the game even have minibosses after early game if thats how were defining it :V

[fresh mulch]

no it does not

mementos 'bosses' dying by a sneeze:

[uncut depot]

reimagined scales mementos bosses, or at least its planned idr, i kinda want to do that too admittedly but my pile of unfinished projects is already so big :V

[fresh mulch]

i'll def make them more interesting as bosses too

... what if... the bosses also scaled based on your plot progression?

so putting them off does not make things easier

with cbt this should be very easy tbh

[uncut depot]

(as an aside, ryoko aino would be a side character in the manual morgana confidant idea in my head)

[fresh mulch]

i can directly modify their levels and stats, and when deciding for moves, have it check flags to see which one to pick

[uncut depot]

i was thinking level scaling but honestly would there be a practical difference

[fresh mulch]

if the base bosses are naturally tough and you scale them proportionally, yes

if im feeling masochistic with myself, i can even have extra behavior based on their current scale

its just checking if flag = 1 tbh

going back to the boat

https://tenor.com/view/nice-boat-meme-pain-gif-4756337645956027886

(im sorry if you get the reference)

if i make every one of these guys be actual tough bosses, then there is quite an incentive to try to skip their battle

why did they have to do ongyoki this dirty

barely a speed bump 😭

what we could've gotten

...yknow that scrapped idea of living with sae and makoto? (i dont remember the specifics)

i'm kind of wanting to write a fic exploring this. it probably has been done before right?

[wide carbon]

I'm not
Sorry to disappoint

[simple knoll]

no way

[wide carbon]

I think I've seen it like once or twice. Been a while since I looked. Would be a cool mod idea too but probably an insane amount of work lol

[simple knoll]

a straight person

[wide carbon]

[uncut depot]

im not either (im aspec)

[fresh mulch]

level -1

[wide carbon]

In my defense

[fresh mulch]

imagine not being curved

[wide carbon]

I tried it out at least before deciding it wasn't for me

[uncut depot]

where do we put "i would have gay sex (or straight sex) if propositioned but i dont have the instinctive urge to tap that just from seeing a hot person"

[fresh mulch]

idk the terminology but i heard of sex-positive or smth like that

[uncut depot]

i meant in terms of level of gay :V

[fresh mulch]

oh lmao

level yesnt

[wide carbon]

I'm not knowledgable enough to say if thats somewhere on Ace spectrum or if thats more releated to sex drive lol

[uncut depot]

me taking 25 years of my life for my brain to go "..........OHH, its about attraction to people" (i am also kinky)

[wide carbon]

what else would you be attracted to? 😭

[edgy field]

https://tenor.com/view/yungviral-gif-13939729783032931857

[uncut depot]

bondage, mostly

apparently

[wide carbon]

Horrifying use of the Adachi emote

[uncut depot]

i didnt even think of that ur so rite skob

mods can we get an ann_true emote

[fresh mulch]

tbh we need ann emotes

its a crime there's none

[wide carbon]

Naaaah

We need more Naoto emotes

Remove the others to make room

[fresh mulch]

me searching if there's a futaba emote

[wide carbon]

everyones favorite ship

Futa and Yusuke

[uncut depot]

however, like butch girlkisser and women, i lack actual irl experience with bdsm and therefore need to touch grass

[edgy field]

futanari

[wide carbon]

Don't worry

I got you

https://archiveofourown.org/

Everything you need right here

[uncut depot]

i said irl

[fresh mulch]

did you say my entirename

[uncut depot]

yes

[wide carbon]

Learn from the ancient texts 😤

[uncut depot]

believe it or not i already read kinky smut on ao3

[fresh mulch]

btw haru is a capital S Sadist and i will this headcanon into truth

[wide carbon]

Isn't that just canon

Shes wild in mementos

[uncut depot]

im psure reading dubcon tentacle stuff is not very transferable to real sex im afraid

[fresh mulch]

skill issue

[edgy field]

It's kind of trope-y tbh

[wide carbon]

Find someone with your level of kink

[uncut depot]

i already have but were on different continents B)

[wide carbon]

[wide carbon]

Which part

[edgy field]

them leaning into the sadist haru

[fresh mulch]

ngl as much as people like to say how unhinged haru is, it feels less like a part of her personality and more as a gag?

[edgy field]

Well yeah

it's a trope

and really surface level in p5

[wide carbon]

I kind of wish we'd gotten spoiled rich girl Haru like the original concepts. Would have been interesting to have someone in the party who is just flat out difficult to work with

[uncut depot]

i kinda wish we got black mask red herring haru

[edgy field]

Well we did, but it's just a gag like the rest of p5

[wide carbon]

did we?

I dont remember this and I just played p5r

[uncut depot]

i think they mean black mask red herring

[lunar vector]

It's raised and dismissed within like two lines of dialogue 😔

[uncut depot]

its like right at the start of the beauty thief event

[edgy field]

when you meet her for the first time in okumura's palace they talk about the black mask

[wide carbon]

Can you blame me for not noticing when Morgana stole all of Harus spotlight?

[strong moat]

[uncut depot]

theres also her like retreating from the party for a bit after her father dies extremely suspiciously except not really because you see black mask kill shadow okumura like right after the bossfight

[fresh mulch]

she has a twin sister duh

[fresh mulch]

i could kind of do it in a random fic. would be interesting

[wide carbon]

Lemme know if you do

I'll give it a read

[fresh mulch]

(i'll probably forget)

[edgy field]

Like maybe if it actually did anything within the game I'd be okay with it but it's just in mementos dialogue. I'd probably rank it on par with the akechi pancake conversation.

[uncut depot]

(also to be technical, "sex-positive" refers to ones political beliefs about sex, the phrase youre looking for is sex-favorable)

[fresh mulch]

yeah that

[strong moat]

what is even going on here

[uncut depot]

like whats weird in retrospect is i wont hesitate to categorize people as attractive but the leap into arousal/sex fantasies just didnt happen and i didnt question how weird that was for like 3/4 of my life

[fresh mulch]

the same as always

[uncut depot]

yapping

[wide carbon]

so much yapping

[strong moat]

mmm I see that lol

[fresh mulch]

(tbf i dont with real people. apparently its weird not to?)

[edgy field]

tbh I kinda don't like the mementos coversations in general. I mean the most you can glean is small character moments, and the rest is surface level gags and memes. Why couldn't they have commented on story moments or something?

[fresh mulch]

at least we got homo futaba from that

[edgy field]

gag

[fresh mulch]

i know 😭

every moment of futaba being gay is a gag lets not pretend the persona writers of all would genuinely do this

[edgy field]

I was just gonna say that

omg guys the highschoolers boobs are so big right??????? wowie atlus im really glad you put that into strikers.

[wide carbon]

I thought this said homophobic for a second and was like WHAT

[uncut depot]

every moment of gay is a gag lets not pretend the persona writers of all would genuinely do this
ftfy

well
persona writers in 2008-16 at least idk about 26

[fresh mulch]

you misread often

[grand cipher]

Is it dumb when they were talking about black mask stuff at the beginning like with madarame I thought they were talking about morgana

[wide carbon]

tbh I never even heard the mementos dialogue because I either had the game volume low to watch a youtube video or I'd be going so fast in the Morgana car I'd cut off the dialogue

[fresh mulch]

wasnt jun and katsuya to attract fujoshis?

oh wait i misread

[edgy field]

well we are all persona fans

[fresh mulch]

...

joke's on me

[wide carbon]

[uncut depot]

manifesting yosuke romance in p4r and not just as cut content

[fresh mulch]

what changed recently?

[lunar vector]

Nothing visible, I assume, we just don't know.

[uncut depot]

mostly i just get the sense that theyre at least trying to cut back on outright yikeses

[edgy field]

I mean they did it with p3r they're gonna take an axe to p4r

[lunar vector]

Will P4 even be recognizable 😅

[fresh mulch]

the transphobic beach scene was changed in japanese too?

[uncut depot]

i joke but tbh thats kinda why ive had this weird mix of anticipation and dread for p4r

[fresh mulch]

same

no matter what happens it will be tiring

i just cant get hyped

[uncut depot]

10 more years of naoto discourse even if they handle it well

[edgy field]

They won't, 100%

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/fade-away-oooooooooooo-aga-emoji-crumble-gif-20008708

[edgy field]

It'll either be a complete reinforce of the original game or a complete 180 no inbetween.

The games must never be nuanced

[fresh mulch]

eh it'll probably be the same

[uncut depot]

im not sending the meme again

[edgy field]

The answer 2

[fresh mulch]

one thing is certain in that they'll never do anything to change a waifu's gender. so it will be always in some way a lot like the original

[edgy field]

Why change what isn't broken (and sells well)

[fresh mulch]

and i think that a big thing preventing yosuke romance is that they would have to rewrite quite a lot of le funny moments for that

it would be weird to be dating yosuke and in the story he does those things in front of you

[uncut depot]

worth it

[edgy field]

They'll never add that in a million years. It'd be too 'controversial'

[fresh mulch]

fire emblem has no issues lol

[wide carbon]

Add an Adachi romance instead

[edgy field]

make adachi a girl

[fresh mulch]

atlus appealing to hormonal boys and its consequences

[wide carbon]

Pardon me if Engage is different but Three Houses doesnt have much in the way of Male Male romance options? It has a handful of Female Female options

[fresh mulch]

i never played but yeah

[wide carbon]

I'm not really sure if I'd say "no issues"

[fresh mulch]

however it did not cause controversy

[wide carbon]

Since its MLM options are kind of awful lol

Maybe P6 would add a gay romance option

but I doubt a rerelease of 4 would

[rustic shadow]

Persona 2 almost did it & have a gay character

[fresh mulch]

they're keeping it faithful because there isnt reason to change. even if a main writer for some reason wanted, the higher ups would not allow so there is zero chance of anything substantial tbh

[fresh mulch]

(i personally think there is many reasons but from a business perspective? not really)

[wide carbon]

I've heard that the remake is outsourced anyway. I imagine theres some Atlus stuff on it but can't imagine theres gonna be major changes when its not handled by Atlus directly

[fresh mulch]

it aint happening then

i honestly dont need more p4 lol

first steam persona i'll probably skip

[wide carbon]

It's still my fav between 3, 4, and 5

Granted I haven't played it since 2013

so I wonder if my opinion will change

[rustic shadow]

My favorite is persona 2

[wide carbon]

P2 remake

[rustic shadow]

I love jun & maya

[uncut depot]

tbh while i do think bigender naoto would be very based, i honestly think naotos gender in itself is less important than whether or not they reject terf stereotypes about transmascs. making xir transmasc and/or enby and affirming it is just the most straightforward but also least marketable way of doing that rejection

[fresh mulch]

3 fes was always my favorite. portable does not win me over because of femc (shocker, i know)

[rustic shadow]

Jun being the last gay character is crazy

[wide carbon]

P3P is still the only version of 3 I've played lol

It was my first Persona game

[uncut depot]

ive played fes and reload but not portable lol

[fresh mulch]

i feel sorry for you

[wide carbon]

😭

I liked it for what it was

Didn't know what I was missing

This was in like 2011

[fresh mulch]

you missed marin karin, like mitsuru

tbh i would've actually done this mod as only tactics if modding p5 was easier

it fits the themes im going for tbh

[simple knoll]

I feel bad for the people looking for psp games finding p3p and never knowing there was a better version out there

[rustic shadow]

P3p is just for p3 femc & that it

[uncut depot]

me when reload is comically easy but i dont want to go back to having to choose between no all slink run and serial cheating

[fresh mulch]

true...

[simple knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

[fresh mulch]

now, if it comes out that its extremely moddable...

[simple knoll]

my first p3 experience was p3 fes on pcsx2 with the new moon mod

[uncut depot]

i mean its just gonna be unreal engine again so about as moddable as any ue game probably

and i imagine a lot of p3r stuff will be transferrable

[fresh mulch]

i'll first mess with reload before then

[wide carbon]

Does P3R make it so you dont have to have a harem

[uncut depot]

yes

[fresh mulch]

yes

[simple knoll]

yes

[wide carbon]

WOAH

[simple knoll]

LMAO

[fresh mulch]

yes

LMAO

[wide carbon]

THANKS EVERYONE

y'all were locked in 😭

[simple knoll]

that's a very commonly asked question

in fact p3r doesn't even have doubt/reverse either

[wide carbon]

follow up questi-

oh

[simple knoll]

LMAO

[wide carbon]

is it just like p5r then

where nothing bad happens

[simple knoll]

I've heard enough people asking about p3r

[rustic shadow]

The moon sl?

[uncut depot]

you can get it through extremely obvious asshole dialogue, but the timer is gone so it kinda doesnt have teeth

[simple knoll]

oh you can reverse him?

[wide carbon]

I hope p4r keeps the scene where they make you feel like the biggest piece of shit for cheating lmao

[simple knoll]

can I reverse kenji

I fucking hate that guy

[uncut depot]

he has a scripted just-for-show reverse at rank 9 that is undone in the same sequence

[wide carbon]

I hope not

SUFFER

[fresh mulch]

what a punishment fast forwards

[wide carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-fuego-gif-26833875

[simple knoll]

I really wish they had replaced kenji with junpei but they were pussies smh

[rustic shadow]

Imo he's a good friend but his sl is awful

[fresh mulch]

if cheating blocked rank 10 then maybe we could talk

[wide carbon]

the funny thing about Kenji is that hes not an S Link for femc but he STILL shows up all the time

[simple knoll]

encouraging my man to get groomed

[rustic shadow]

Oh....

[simple knoll]

yeah bc her strength (?) confidant has a crush on him

[wide carbon]

girl can do better 😭

[uncut depot]

reverse every girl you cheated on and deny the ng+ rewards

[simple knoll]

yeah she should date femc instead

[wide carbon]

pls dont break Saoris heart like that

[simple knoll]

yeah Saori is better

[uncut depot]

junpeitrue

[wide carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/kotone-shiomi-kotone-persona-3-persona-saori-gif-8514867757282760868

I have no idea where this kotone art came from

[rustic shadow]

She kinda creep me out...

[wide carbon]

but I found this gif

[simple knoll]

p3r Saori omg

[wide carbon]

is that art from the femc project?

[uncut depot]

like i dont even hate his ass but did they really need to make the fundamental thrust of his sl a big awkward moment skob

[simple knoll]

probably

they haven't gotten to SLs yet tho

[wide carbon]

Speaking of femc ships

[uncut depot]

indeed

[fresh mulch]

thrust?

[simple knoll]

I think event wise they're focused on Theodore rn

[wide carbon]

I found the biggest Kotone crack ship for femc last year on ao3

10/10 fic

[uncut depot]

plot stuff is easier is why

[fresh mulch]

kotone x kawakami obviously

[simple knoll]

p3r Theodore looks really cool tho

[wide carbon]

I mean they'd probably be around the same age but no

is that a thing?

[uncut depot]

ive kinda resigned myself to the fact that the main thing i want in the mod will probably be the last thing to happen

[fresh mulch]

i have no idea but it should

[fresh mulch]

i... dont think she'd be the same age for... reasons...

[wide carbon]

🤔

[simple knoll]

||dead||

[fresh mulch]

door-chan

[wide carbon]

I meant in like 2006 they'd be around the same age 😭

not 2016 😭

ALSO

[uncut depot]

p3 is set in 2009 though

[wide carbon]

We never see The Answer in P3P

[rustic shadow]

Everytime I read a fanfic about her it philemon freeing her 😂😂

[wide carbon]

so she not might be in the door