[P5R PC] Take Your Time | [FEMC & Yuri] Story and Gameplay Overhaul

[fresh mulch]

im pretty sure i can do that

im pretty big brained

[strong moat]

well I pointed out a few examples but to bring one up again, that fuck ass scene of her joining the team for the first time only for her to find out the team didn't have a strategy

(???????)

[fresh mulch]

girl whats this hairline

[fresh mulch]

wasnt the madarame treasure heist like the opposite of 'not having strategy'?

[strong moat]

lol

you'd think so

that whole scene is dumb as hell

it really does piss me off

[fresh mulch]

seems to be the case of writing wanting to do the gag of 'smart character baffled shes surrounded by morons', but it doesnt take into account the linear progression of the plot itself

[strong moat]

basically the logic is that oh they just beat up shadows and wander around until they find the treasure (ryuji's words)

but that's just way oversimplifying it

yeah and I think frankly that's insulting to the other characters (even Ryuji too!!) who have shown themselves to be smart and competent as well

[fresh mulch]

ryuji is really smart at the beginning tbf

[uncut depot]

remember when ann pulled the thread on the entire sayuri scam in the space of one event

[strong moat]

no that never happened

[fresh mulch]

he just gets dumbed down because its funny (i am faulty of this)

[strong moat]

what are you talking about ocean

Ann has always been a stupid airhead

always

[fresh mulch]

true shes blonde

[strong moat]

it particularly annoys me with Ann bc she clearly is smart as demonstrated in multiple events including that one

it feels like they just character assassinated everyone to justify Makoto joining the team and honestly it makes me dislike her more as a result lmao

[uncut depot]

no but see makotos heist movie archetype is the planner so shes the only one allowed to be smart

[strong moat]

wooooo

it sucks. she can be smart too but not at the expense of the others please

[fresh mulch]

she's also the planned waifu lets have her hug joker's leg in one scene ig

[uncut depot]

id prob have it so shes objectively more book smart than the existing team but kinda clueless in other things, which kinda seems like what they were going for anyway in other parts of the game

[strong moat]

also she's mainly book smart. she's not street smart. that should translate primarily to her being good with logic puzzles and such

yeah pretty much that lol

[fresh mulch]

a lot of people dont know the difference unfortunately

no, being a doctor doesnt mean you have any idea how quantum physics work

[fresh mulch]

we kinda see this literally happen on her introduction but then seemingly dropped? like, she's so streetsdumb she takes a car ride to some mafia boss (AND SHES A GIRL WHERE ARE YOUR SELF PRESERVATION INSTINCTS)

[strong moat]

yeah 😭 she was stupid for that too

they literally bring it up early in her confidant too and then drop it

[fresh mulch]

makoto in confidant: smells a sex pest a mile away
makoto in the story: enters the car of two shady dudes

smells* not smile

[strong moat]

the joke about Makoto being a robot exists for a reason

[fresh mulch]

beep boop

[strong moat]

beep boop

[fresh mulch]

i know how to fix makoto's character: she dates all the bitches

[rare oriole]

that's your answer to everything

[uncut depot]

peeb poob

[fresh mulch]

true...

also, lean more on makoto's tomboyishness

she'd make a great butch

[uncut depot]

im remembering now this one exchange i had with a friend who was streaming the game, and i think one of us either brought up a post we saw somewhere or just plain had the thought ourselves that. why is she the one who clocks kaneshiro vault as a giant lock when morgana is the one who teaches us how to pick actual locks

[strong moat]

because they had to make Makoto useful somehow

guys she's not actually useless!!!!

[lunar vector]

I just don't see the butch Makoto vision 😔 Happy to let you cook but it kind of makes me feel crazy that I don't see it even a little bit 🥲

[fresh mulch]

she's the daughter of the lockpicking lawyer duh

[uncut depot]

what if kaneshiro palace had straight up calculus problems and she had to teach you how to get a derivative B)

[strong moat]

then me as an engineering major would just solve it myself

[fresh mulch]

nah I = 4

[strong moat]

and then get frustrated if the game forces me to wait for midkoto to solve it for me

[fresh mulch]

she has the potential to get there

[lunar vector]

That's a Hard Femme look 😔

[fresh mulch]

i said potential

[rare oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/makoto-niijima-persona5-gif-18328808

[strong moat]

true makoto is potential character

(isn't there a meme with her as that actually)

[fresh mulch]

the swagger of a butch teen

[lunar vector]

That's a hard femme outfit!!!

[uncut depot]

i like that her strikers outfit has a leather jacket. like shes slowly coming out of her shell

[fresh mulch]

😭

[uncut depot]

i get the vibe that in p5 proper she would be a butch if she wasnt omega repressed and will probably get there given time tbh

[fresh mulch]

we just need to give her time

[lunar vector]

I have very strong and controversial Makoto stances, even among the gays 😔

[fresh mulch]

the gays are fractured

[strong moat]

😔

this is so sad

[lunar vector]

Nobody is AFK-gay enough to know what a hard femme looks like 😔😔😔

[fresh mulch]

millions must gay

[fresh mulch]

im chronically-online-gay ok

[strong moat]

that sounds like kind of the opposite lmao

[fresh mulch]

yeah im agreeing

[strong moat]

true...

[uncut depot]

i kinda wish we could get a sufficiently fruity makoto liker in here tbh for input though ive sadly lost touch with the makoto rper who actually got me into persona in the first place

[fresh mulch]

how did i only write 3 lines so far

[rare oriole]

how is there no one who likes makoto here, isn't she the most popular ?

[uncut depot]

im not asking the twitter dregs for help

[fresh mulch]

she's the popular with normies, and discord users are not normies (we are worse)

[fresh mulch]

i am a makoto liker tho

im just critical of the writers about her

but i love makoto

btw she bottoms against 90% of the girls

[strong moat]

thinking of how my brother asked me which girl I liked most in P5, and when I replied with Ann, said that she was kinda boring and that he preferred Makoto

😭

[fresh mulch]

thats classic normie unfortunately

[strong moat]

I've gone back and forth on Makoto myself but yeah I've made it clear I'm not very positive on her right now 😭

but I hope that I've provided enough on why I don't like her to make it clear I've thought about it lol and that I think it is fixable

[fresh mulch]

whats another character that needed more work (besides haru nonexisting)?

[strong moat]

I really do think Makoto is that character

[fresh mulch]

shiho definitively. she was done dirty

[strong moat]

but if you want someone else, Morgana

[fresh mulch]

i think something is missing with futaba tho

[strong moat]

she's kinda rushed

the writing in her arc is a bit odd with the context of past persona games imo

[fresh mulch]

how so?

[strong moat]

the logic for her shadow doesn't really make a ton of sense to me especially with the whole change of heart stuff in mind

granted I think I need to replay the arc or at least rewatch it to see the extra writing bits, but

[fresh mulch]

get the true persona 5 experience and watch a playthrough

[strong moat]

I mean at this point I don't think it would be unreasonable to haha

I've already played the game thrice soooo

[fresh mulch]

rookie numbers (i shouldnt brag about this)

[uncut depot]

i played p5 once and p5r once and watched rtgame playthrough soo about on the same level i think

[fresh mulch]

i think i rarely watch playthroughs of games ive already played or plan to play

[uncut depot]

i mean i dont actively seek them out but i do pay attention when a content creator i watch anyway is playing them lol

[fresh mulch]

SHE CAN TELEPORT????

[lunar vector]

(jump scare sfx)

[strong moat]

how many playthroughs do you have

[strong moat]

same unless it's one of my friends (it's fun to watch friends play games I like)

but for modding I will say, YouTube playthroughs are so useful for getting info easily

[fresh mulch]

happens a bit too often when i leave the msd_ i used to preview the positions without removing it later. so instead of walking it executes the literal 'teleport' command

[strong moat]

the only thing is that it's so frustrating finding footage of older persona games

you can't easily find P3F, P4, or P5 anymore. you're definitely not finding anything from P3.

[fresh mulch]

true. but its usually faster for me to ctrl f the msg dump

[fresh mulch]

p3? never heard of her

[strong moat]

depends what you're looking for haha

for text yes unless you don't remember the exact text lol

I did a bunch of stuff with P4G's scheduler, event music, etc

so pretty useful from that perspective (also for seeing unmodded footage to verify you didn't mess something up horribly)

[fresh mulch]

thoughts so far?

[grand cipher]

already looks amazing.

Also pimping me out, would be funny if you add that line "Where did you learn of those things" like during the kaneshiro arc, then change the line in the arc to something referencing that

[unborn sonnet]

I stan more Haru screen time

[fresh mulch]

if i wasnt distracted by discord, i would've finished this today (i say this stuff, but its good to take breaks and not burn out. an issue i have too often with my projects)

[rare oriole]

but its good to take breaks and not burn out. an issue i have too often with my projects
couldn't be me ||i really wish it wasn't me ||

[unborn sonnet]

Ive also been busy with the buildup to christmas... Hopefully I didnt forget all my evtui knowledge when I can work on my things again

[strong moat]

avoiding burnout is very important haha

my current job is a blessing in disguise with that bc it prevents me from getting burnt out; I just don't have enough time to commit to modding to be burnt out in the first place lmaoooo

[lunar vector]

Hopefully by the time you can work on your things again, the rendering will be much improved

[unborn sonnet]

Ive been peaking into this channel, youve been doing so much hard work, thank you! Im so excited for when I can sit down and mess with it all again

[fresh mulch]

yknow, i think i have an inability to put anything inside my head into a plan. i cant write a gamedoc, i cant write a story outline, i write the event as i go inside the editor, instead of doing a script beforehand... i do stuff as i go and my head is the only documentation i consult

i just freeze and give up when i try to do that

[fresh mulch]

https://youtu.be/C7KgSAmUFqE

a mementos floor maybe?

i was also wondering if futaba's pyramid would also work...

(she's so cute omg)

[grand cipher]

anime neck

[fresh mulch]

p5 has some big necks

[sullen drift]

Arigato. my laptop suddenly failed (on switch just blinks nothing else) so I can’t play any pc games or mods right now.

I really needed this. I love this series.

Arigato, danke, thank you

[fresh mulch]

how would yall describe ren's personality?

[lunar vector]

Stoic and deadpan -- which is to say, often joking and fucking with people, but it's hard to tell because of the few words and flat affect.

[fresh mulch]

beep boop

[lunar vector]

Also will do anything for the aesthetic.

I guess today the kids call that aura-farming...

[fresh mulch]

i think rei is basically this, but sprinkle some more awkwardness and sass

[lunar vector]

I think there's plenty of sass in there, too.

[fresh mulch]

joker is a diva ✨

[lunar vector]

True!!!

[fresh mulch]

when i think of joker, 'flamboyant' comes to mind, not 'chad'

[lunar vector]

He wants to wear a dress sooooo bad.

[fresh mulch]

i cant keep up with slang anymore and im barely 20

[fresh mulch]

no one would go that hard on just a disguise

[lunar vector]

Joker does drag shows post-canon. It's to me.

Even Rei would kill it as a drag king, lol. And weirdly--I think Haru would, too, in a different way.

[uncut depot]

mood

[fresh mulch]

I mean, Rei is king in portuguese (and very close to King in most romance languages)

(just a coincidence)

[quiet prism]

And enlighten in Japanese not just zero and soul. After all that's what current ERA is in the Japanese calendar reiwa

[fresh mulch]

zero was the main reason i liked the name. close to Ren while referencing the trickster

[quiet prism]

Yeah but congratulations on hitting a four of a kind in meaningful name. With three of them technically being very thematic to the tarot

[fresh mulch]

coincidence from one intentional choice

btw rei totally uses 'boku' right(i also heard of ore but i dont know much of the nuances)

[lunar vector]

She's a boku gal for sure.

||ooooh you wanna watch utena so bad||

[quiet prism]

Oh yeah, that's definitely the princely girl form of address

[fresh mulch]

talking of princes, i was thinking if i ever did tomboyish femc Yu, i'd have her be the stereotypical yuri princely girl

[quiet prism]

I'd say so

[fresh mulch]

yu's crossdress fit actually makes a very fine girl

teddie's too

[quiet prism]

No kidding, Teddie's made everybody go yeah I hit that

[fresh mulch]

[fresh mulch]

this is an animation that is used

need i say more

[grand cipher]

yas queen

[uncut depot]

with any luck, p4r crossdressing outfits will come stock with that games costume framework since the models are already in the game

[unborn sonnet]

He also pops his hip out in the ||bad ending|| like Akechi does 😭

[fresh mulch]

haru...

thoughts so far?

(the other path btw)

||she giggles a lot huh||

[sullen drift]

Oh I have mentioned it here several times but trans masc she/her Yu is my only P4 FeMC. Her name is Kyoufu Fushiki. Although my name means King of Mysteries (Fushikio) You can translate my Yu’s name as Fear of the Mysterious or Terrified of The Unknown. But of course since Kyoufu Fushiki is named that she is not afraid of the mysterious.

[sullen drift]

////////////:/:::/://:::::::::
As for Rei, I think she is very outgoing and sassy. The type to be very out and proud… but not as secure about being out as she presents. Like I imagine Rei is still a little self conscious about it because obviously she has bullying in her past. I think Ryuji relating to her as a friend means a whole lot to her because he is ostensibly a typical straight guy. She’s a masculine butch lesbian and here he is reaching out as a friend without being gross or handsy or fetishy. Speaking from personal experiences this would be a big deal as my first friend in Rei’s situation. Especially with the crazy shit they then go through. I can see Ryuji, as weird as it may seem, being why Rei is more willing to open up to the others she meets after him. Rei is a good person obviously but having of all people a typical guy treat her like a human I think would make her a little less jaded.

I think she would be on guard around Morgana though but tell him that. And I think the reason why maybe she doesn’t seem like she’s on guard with Morgana is because at first she really feels alone. I think she trusts Ryuji and Ann before she wants to trust Morgana.

I also think Rei stops feeling alone once she starts to realize that she has two friends in Ann and Ryuji. And that neither of them look down on her for how she looks or acts.

My apologies for how long that was. But just my take as a genderqueer person who knows how valuable those friendships would be to me if I was in Rei’s situation. I would maybe be more closed off, but Ryuji being so friendly would help me be more open because I wouldn’t understand it but he is genuine and sincere. And then Ann is sincere too. They are great characters.

[fresh mulch]

this was really insightful. thank you for your thoughts

[sullen drift]

You’re very welcome!

[fresh mulch]

🔥 early vegetables 🔥

[grand cipher]

great vegetables

[fresh mulch]

holy shit the gardening here is so disappointing

no way, only two plants total in vanilla

[fresh mulch]

3/4s of the way there

i'll be sleeping now tho

night gays

[fresh mulch]

btw what yall think of the way i wrote haru?

[lunar vector]

She feels pretty in-character to me!

[sullen drift]

I like it! Keeps that Haru essence and sweetness she has. Haru is the girl who just walks into the hallway and says “Why are you being cruel to this student I don’t know?” and everyone stops. And she is also the student who walks into the hallway and says “Oh the school festival! I can sell vegetables at a stall!” and everyone stops. And probably thinks she is a little odd but cute. You captured all that. Good work

[fresh mulch]

Mornin gays

[quiet prism]

Howdy

[fresh mulch]

time to lock tf in

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/tensei-oujo-anis-euphy-euphilia-anisphia-gif-10904733721671934698

have some yuri meanwhile

[rare oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/wataoshi-claire-patting-rei-furious-gif-8039726755465902198

[fresh mulch]

i love this ln too

even donated to the creator's ko-fi ||theres smut||

finally. i must be almost done from here

this angle makes morgana look HUGE

[strong moat]

ah yes the fade to black - the classic P3R technique

not super related but I'm jealous of how easy it is for people modding P5R to edit events now

[fresh mulch]

😈

[fresh mulch]

all thanks to ajda

beans

roommate behavior

[fresh mulch]

https://youtu.be/i4-7foRF0h0

the height gap is adorable

[grand cipher]

girls making better events then atlus now

[lunar vector]

Haru said 😳

[fresh mulch]

[fresh mulch]

haru when she sees a handsomely tall butch

[fresh mulch]

hopefully i set up what i needed for the next scene I'll have when we visit the hideout for the first time

makoto's debut as a temporary antagonistic force that hounds ryuji and rei (with a slight enemies-to-lovers tension with ann ) up until her arc. she'll question you three on why going to the rooftop lately, and haru will save your ass by saying the three of you are helping her out with the gardening (the beginnings of a makoharu dynamic as makoto folds easily to haru 😈 )

thats the plan so far

(if anyone wants to say their pieces?)

[fresh mulch]

i just had another idea. now there are 2 events im gonna make

[weary rapids]

You okay there

[fresh mulch]

yes why

[grand cipher]

prob cuz your making events everyday

[weary rapids]

The naoto dead emote

[fresh mulch]

im tired of my own ambition

[fresh mulch]

so, yknow when you go to the gun shop with ryuji, but ann couldnt come because she went to visit shiho in the hospital?

more shihoann angst 🔥

im making a copy of an unused event for this one (that i will also implement)

i wanna use this one to foreshadow the shadow ann fight later on in the palace

the makoto event can wait. im making angst rn

[uncut depot]

hey i know the event you mean lol, goddamnit i gotta get back to fixing the royal restoration config

[fresh mulch]

yup. heard of it from the thread

im a filthy THIEF 😈

[fresh mulch]

anngst

[strong moat]

rei?

like the PQ rei?

[fresh mulch]

in case its not a joke, rei is the femc here

i had forgor the name of that pq girl. i guess never completing the game does that

[fresh mulch]

i might just be realising what ive brought upon myself by having haru be an active character early on

[quiet prism]

Oh boy. You would think someone is dedicated to agriculture like Haru is, wouldn't care much for the term GMO. Seeing how technically all modern crops are GMOs even without chemical genetic manipulation. Through selective breeding we basically did the same thing.

[fresh mulch]

i think the intent is pretty clear...

[quiet prism]

Sorry it's just that terms like that grind my gears.

[fresh mulch]

omg...

apparently, this one had mishima also visit her

why did they cut it???? 😭

this wouldve been so good for their characters

[fresh mulch]

🔥 ANNGST 🔥

this one was quick

should be good setup for the shadow fight?

[lunar vector]

YESSSS...

[green folio]

WOWWW

[uncut depot]

i wonder if the unused hospital event was intended to "play" multiple times but with conditional framejumps or smth depending on when it was called
so that itd appear as multiple scenes spread out over time

since iirc in the unedited event, theres a framejump after ann leaves that causes the mishima part to be skipped

[fresh mulch]

probably. ann does mention visiting shiho multiple times right

[uncut depot]

yeah i think

~~i wouldve at least used the two bits that got finished instead of yeeting the entire thing skob ~~

actually another thing too, theres an unused ftd(?) suggesting it wouldve played on 4/29 but anns actual dialogue implies its the day before the deadline

[fresh mulch]

4/29 is the deadline, so maybe by 'tomorrow' she meant that?

[uncut depot]

it is not the deadline

[fresh mulch]

really?

[uncut depot]

the deadline is 5/2, meaning you have to have bossfight by 5/1 and secure route two days before that (ie. 4/29)

[fresh mulch]

oh plan execution timeline

hopefully it should be possible to edit the calendar, because that'd give me more freedom

(or the player just accepts that the thing is all wrong)

[uncut depot]

in royal restoration i put it so that if youve cleared the palace by 5/1 (and have the event enabled), then the event will play on that day

[fresh mulch]

oh btw the anngst doesnt stop after the kamoshida arc 😈

i said it before that ann and makoto will canonically date in the main story

yknow where im goning w this

[uncut depot]

accepts whats all wrong

[fresh mulch]

the events shown in the calendar if i add/remove something

[uncut depot]

oh

[lunar vector]

I suspect the calendar info should be in a FTD/CTD somewhere...

[fresh mulch]

hopefully. in that case i should be able to find

stuff like chat icons and titles are like that too?

hmmm

ok then

oh...

looks very promising

[lunar vector]

That looks right 👀

[fresh mulch]

no way this aint it

[lunar vector]

Gotta be, yeah.

[fresh mulch]

i obliterated 5/1 from here. see if that changes anything

ez clap

now why is it showa day after setting everything to 0? must be the default? we dont have dates with nothing in them in the table

also, this is not tied to the calendar

[fresh mulch]

oh yeah the angst. ~~basically itll be a soap opera ~~

/j but ann's and shiho's relationship will be a bit messy for a while. im following the reversed lovers' symbolism of disharmony in relationships. stuff left unsaid, jealousy, etc.

at the end itll all go well, but the road there is a human mess

the more reason im excited to get to futaba's arc. this is where a lot of this stuff will kick into gear

[fresh mulch]

🔥 the annpilled sequel 🔥

gnight homos

[fresh mulch]

I was thinking... far enough into the future, if this mod ever has enough of a following, it might not be the worst idea to have a dedicated discord server? This thread format is not exactly the best for the scalability of a project yknow. Ive actually done something like this before, and it ended up working quite well

Of course, not something to worry about for now. Specially without any demos out

Just thinking a bit further ahead

(Im just trying to sleep but had to get this out)

[lunar vector]

Probably not a bad idea! I'd be surprised if this didn't eventually attract enough of a following for a dedicated server, tbh. The children yearn for the romhack.

[fresh mulch]

children? But its an adult-only server ||/j||

[lunar vector]

Everyone is children to me 🧓

[fresh mulch]

Okay granma

[quiet prism]

You probably already asleep or maybe not. But I'm all for dedicated server. You know some people are itching the post some shall we say spicy work as well.

[rare oriole]

[strong moat]

OHHHHH
no that was a serious question I was like ?????????

rei PQ is goated haha so I remember her for that

[sullen drift]

Ok so this is something I have been kicking around for ages. I always thought the Probation event could use another dimension. In my concepts Joker would find a PT/confidant freaking out after Joker witnessed everything including them punching Shido hard. Joker steps in and knocks him out again so he won’t remember. Joker then says “I will take responsibility. I’m just a teenager”

The person Joker saves could be Kasumi(in fear of her career) or even Ohya or Takemi or even Hifumi.

I thought of this concept when it was asked of ways to make Kasumi more interesting.

And I thought “what if she recognises Rei as the one who protected her, but she doesn’t recognise Sumi at all?”

Just an idea. or even having someone else witness what happened that night and keep the event basically the same with a “Rei, I’m sorry I couldn’t help… But I was there that night and know how you helped that woman”

Just some ideas. The second one would give some intrigue to Kasumi… but it might even be a better idea for Futaba(maybe her drone caught it)

Just stuff at the wall like usual

[fresh mulch]

||im people ||

[fresh mulch]

Smh my head brawler is not a true time ur take fan

[fresh mulch]

Wasnt that back at joker's hometown? (...In that case, what was shido doing there?)

Good morning homosexuals

[green folio]

gm!

[uncut depot]

it was, and shido was there because it is not, contrary to popular fanon, the ass end of nowhere

[quiet prism]

Actually, that's something of a mistranslation for you. The way they use inaka, simply means the countryside. I don't think it's talking about the actual Inaka Japan.

[fresh mulch]

i c

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-girl-hug-lesbians-anime-lesbian-anime-girl-anime-girl-kiss-gif-10007048051271758348

https://tenor.com/view/yagakimi-yagate-kimi-ni-naru-bloom-into-you-touko-nanami-gif-20356624

read bloom into you

[uncut depot]

the fact that you capitalized Inaka makes me think youre talking about a literal city named Inaka, which. is not at all what the post was saying

[quiet prism]

To be fair I did just wake up when I posted that

[uncut depot]

"the word 「いなか」is translated as countryside but in practice means anywhere less urban than tokyo (the largest metropolitan area on earth), here are some examples of what i mean"
"umm i think op misunderstood, inaka means countryside its not a town named inaka 🤓"

[fresh mulch]

i'll have to read this thing later

makoto event time

[strong moat]

distracted by another goated game tbh 😔

[fresh mulch]

which one

[strong moat]

PQ lol

[fresh mulch]

i should finish pq one day (but it'd suck to beat it pirated and then atlus decides to 'oops, we are releasing it on steam now')

[strong moat]

what do you think the advantage of that would be?
I've actually had a few people ask about a dedicated discord in the past for one of my mods but I never could see enough of a justification personally...

[strong moat]

I somehow get the feeling that will not happen lol

[fresh mulch]

for big enough projects i think its a good idea. at least from my experience, it actually was really helpful last time i did one

[strong moat]

(said mod in my case is fog restoration so I think that's big enough to probably have a justification there lol)

[fresh mulch]

but what if it does? (another reason why i havent beaten every smt4 ending )

[strong moat]

I just am curious what you would do with >1 channel

[fresh mulch]

one for gay, one for more gay, and one for gay+

oh and one for the mod

[strong moat]

fair enough LMAO

understandable tbh

[fresh mulch]

(actually, all i needed was one chat for general chat and another for my own dev updates)

[strong moat]

ah lmao

[fresh mulch]

good to have them separate

[strong moat]

I suppose there is a lot of random chatter here

[fresh mulch]

if there's a need for another channel then sure. but im not forcing it if only one works

[strong moat]

really I think the main problem with a separate server really ends up being that it's disconnected from this server haha

[fresh mulch]

(also i wanan try it again, but with a community thats not full of kids this time )

[fresh mulch]

thats why it has to be big enough. otherwise its spread too thin

[strong moat]

for sure

there are exceptions of course

femc reloaded is a massive server with its own dedicated community, which is wild to think about

[fresh mulch]

makes sense honestly

[strong moat]

P3F modding and oldsona modding each have their own dedicated servers

[fresh mulch]

at least i think there's enough gameplay and story changes to warrant space for different discussions if people wanna have (when the demo is out)

[strong moat]

but mods like kotone cutscenes, tiny tweaks, etc, have their own servers that are rather quiet nowadays bc the interest just isn't really there rn/anymore

[fresh mulch]

shouldve been huge tweaks smh my head

again. im not forcing if theres no interest. also if i dont have someone to mod when im zzz

[strong moat]

yeah that's understandable. I'd say if it gets to the point where feedback/dev posting/etc gets too disjointed, maybe consider :) rn it seems like it's decent as a thread?? I think??

[fresh mulch]

rn its fine as a thread

(we are not in 10k messages yet )

[strong moat]

yeah last point is an advantage of it being in a large server like this lol

normally I am not supposed to be awake rn. I'm just having trouble sleeping. but other staff are awake

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/morgana-persona-5-persona-5-the-animation-p5-persona-gif-13603083053620540152

[rare oriole]

yona got a season 2 recently, maybe there's hope for bloom too

[fresh mulch]

morgana found you not slacking

[strong moat]

ha I've noticed these P5 mod overhaul threads tend to get a lot of yapping compared to other threads. p4 fog restoration has 11k messages but a lot of that is mod related

[fresh mulch]

lmao they just colored the eyes green instead of drawing them closed

[fresh mulch]

there is a lot more to discuss about the mod, which opens room for offtopic yapping

[strong moat]

the difference in my case is that I actively want to be asleep but am unable to rn 😔😔

it is funny bc I'm not sure if I'd actually personally use this mod any time soon. not because I dislike it or anything but because P5R is long as shit and I already have trouble getting through games 😭

I tried doing a P5R replay after getting it on PC and it completely fizzled out after I started Yusuke's arc...

[fresh mulch]

||~~i know! this thread is for the good boys and girls and everyone inbetween, and the server is for the freaky 😈 ~~||

[fresh mulch]

i barely play mods i get it

[strong moat]

it's just fun to discuss and see some of my personal criticisms towards P5R being addressed

and I like supporting mods that throw in a bit of woke. as a treat

[fresh mulch]

a bit?

[green folio]

replaying P5R means replaying okumura airlock puzzle

🫩

[rare oriole]

i cant believe brawler's gone woke

[strong moat]

yeah I sure have (I can't sleep rn)

😔

[fresh mulch]

easy as hell
step 1: go as far as you can without touching anything
step 2: pull the last lever and go to the nearby opened hatch
repeat step 1

puzzles usually are not designed so that the first option works, thats why

deadass this makes me oneshot most puzzles in games

[strong moat]

me, never having any issues with any of p5's puzzles... 😔

[rare oriole]

not even okumaras???

[strong moat]

not in the slightest

[fresh mulch]

you just have to think like the dev

[rare oriole]

liar

[strong moat]

idk what to tell you

😭

[green folio]

persona is one of the last things I do in my day so my brain simply doesn't function

[fresh mulch]

i dont think one plays persona for the brain to function

[strong moat]

I didn't even really struggle substantially with the fight itself

I had concentrate by that point so it was chill

[green folio]

the fight isnt really that in my opinion

only struggled the first time i played royal

[green folio]

the brain hates to see the ng+ clear data being loaded

[strong moat]

I didn't know at the time that you could cheese it with gun so I just did it the intended way but also kinda brute forced it in a way too

[fresh mulch]

yup. just remember to use single target skills, not aoe. otherwise you dont get the sweet bp4 chain

[strong moat]

I used aoe

single target is more optimal especially with items but again I just. brute forced it

[fresh mulch]

(triple down is aoe and tbf it works)

[strong moat]

or you can use triple down but again I was not a knower when it came to gun skills

I was very magic brained the first time I played P5 and that carried over into my first P5R playthrough

[fresh mulch]

one of the few bosses that allow you to crit

[green folio]

joker psy move + 2 baton pass items + haru max damage triple down

https://tenor.com/view/nod-cat-hyper-gif-9540792418684483949

[strong moat]

considering almost no other boss lets you crit... I just assumed really haha

[rich stratus]

my first run of okumuras palace i one shot the puzzle without paying attention but my second run i was stuck in okumuras airlock hell

[fresh mulch]

the consequences of bad game design

[strong moat]

it's true

[green folio]

its one of those puzzles where you miraculously do it first try without thinking or you spend 30 minutes going back and forth

[strong moat]

I guess the logic is, oh you can't hit magic weaknesses therefore crits shouldn't be allowed either

[fresh mulch]

i think i was the same with vanilla p5. nowadays im big brain

[strong moat]

but I don't think that works well with phys vs magic balance in general

[fresh mulch]

methinks that maybe bosses should have some magic weakness yknow

otherwise its just generic skill spam

[green folio]

i think it'd make fights more interesting

but if you know what you're doign it'd make the game pretty easy

[fresh mulch]

and its not like burn/freeze/shock works on bosses, so all the fucking skills are the same thing 😭

[strong moat]

in a boss fight, even with no magic weakness, phys should still be more of a toss up option bc it uses HP and it has the potential to crit but it won't always crit

[fresh mulch]

thats why you balance around it

[rich stratus]

Its a little sad when they dont have weaknesses but also baton pass makes it so anything with a weakness gets flattend
aka ||maruki phase 1 ||

[strong moat]

I understand limiting ailments and such to some extent. PQ shows just how broken it can be lol

could it be balanced? yeah but it's probably a bit difficult

[green folio]

i never played pq i dont know ball

[fresh mulch]

p5 ailments cant be activated when the boss is already inflicted with one, and they always vanish on the boss' next turn

[green folio]

can velvet room bosses get shock

[fresh mulch]

p5 ailments are like designed to be fair to bosses imo

[strong moat]

you can poison bosses in PQ

[green folio]

i know the wild card fights can

[strong moat]

poison is a huge advantage in PQ because it just continuously affects them for so long

[green folio]

i have never used poison in a persona game

at all

[strong moat]

but even ignoring that, PQ has bind skills and those are incredibly strong

[fresh mulch]

burn is a bit too strong against bosses when you let them be inflicted with it unfortunately

[strong moat]

yeah in PQ, poison is actually pretty good because it inflicts a large amount of damage per turn and it lasts for quite a long time

[fresh mulch]

i think i might remove the automatic burn for shotguns. it makes them too strong

[rich stratus]

i literally never used status effects in rpgs till p5rs second run

i always just assume they are ass

[strong moat]

it's mainly applicable for bosses; in random encounters you'd rather sweep them with Naoto's hama or mudo skills

[fresh mulch]

i used ailments in smt5. its a fun gimmick to use once in a while because it works on the first few times you inflict the bosses (they get resistances the more you do it tho)

[green folio]

i automatically assume bosses just block all ailments most of the time so i never go out of my way for them if i dont know if they'll actually owrk

[fresh mulch]

i love my luck build nahobino and i dont care if other options are better

[strong moat]

oh, I forgot, agility binds are uniquely strong in PQ bc

• they cut your agility to 0
• multi hits in PQ work differently than other games, each hit has its own accuracy

[green folio]

naoto half sp cost mahamaon/mamudoon random bullshit go

[strong moat]

so if you agility bind an enemy you will always be getting the max number of hits on them

[fresh mulch]

pq inherited how much of etrian odyssey? because i heard about the same things for it

[green folio]

🫩

[strong moat]

stuff like myriad arrows becomes incredibly strong, basically a discount tassou hobi

meanwhile, in P5, even if you modded a multi hit to have 100% accuracy, you are not guaranteed to have the max number of hits at all times

[strong moat]

speaking of tassou hobi they attempted to nerf it in PQ by changing it from being AOE to hitting one random target per hit

however, it still shreds bosses bc those tend to be single target lol

[fresh mulch]

talking about it. i hope that having most gun skills cost sp can make for more interesting ST attackers. for example, ryuji can tank much better if he's not killing himself while attacking by using Snap instead

[green folio]

persona 6 should have p4's hassou tobi and make it teachable as a skill card

put it on the hero's starting persona

first skill

[strong moat]

I'm curious about how that will play out bc typically I think phys skills should all use HP but that does open room for some interesting stuff. like Ryuji obviously has a low SP pool so then maybe gun skills end up being stronger but more expensive idk

[rich stratus]

one day hassou tobi will be post game only and we will have to suffer in this world

[green folio]

no... i dont want to put effort in...

why is my dating sim being ruined by actual gameplay

[strong moat]

that's what myriad truths is for

[fresh mulch]

we'll have to see. but more options is always good (and differentiates these types). plus, 'gun-like' gun skills (so not needles and arrows) have a good shock + burn chance, and hitting a boss with that while dealing huge damage is satisfying

[strong moat]

hassou tobi is actually fine imo, the only major issue I have with it is that they put it on a persona that doesn't even require a max link in P4

[rich stratus]

me in rose & violet ||hassou tobing my sister during the maruki palace scene||

[strong moat]

and even then it's still a high level post game persona anyways, but it would've been more suited for a persona unlocked via maxing several SLs

[green folio]

||i love the idea of instantly just destroying sumire in a single turn with no hesitation||

[strong moat]

I did this in base game lol I did not hold back

[green folio]

||kasumi was waiting her whole life to do that||

[fresh mulch]

these are the only gun skills to cost hp btw

ryuji should learn most of them tbf

[rich stratus]

Yeah i wish ryuji was a gun build

[green folio]

is there a full list of all the skills?

[strong moat]

sumi was just like I don't want to do this and I was like alright bet

[fresh mulch]

when i post the demo

[rich stratus]

his persona literally has a cannon yet hes phys :(

[fresh mulch]

ill forever be disappointed that ryuji doesnt have a single gun skill

[green folio]

the cannon shoots swords duh

or whatever his final phys move is

[strong moat]

what sucks too is that Ryuji gets strong magic skills despite being so phys oriented

[green folio]

gods hand maybe

[fresh mulch]

does he learn any sword moves

[rich stratus]

nope

[fresh mulch]

i think its just ungabunga

[green folio]

idr if his final move is gods hand or brave blade

[strong moat]

god hand

[green folio]

or just neither and im stupid because i havent played in a while

[strong moat]

yusuke has brave blade

[green folio]

ic

[strong moat]

everyone gets god hand though

so

[rich stratus]

ryujis final skill for single target is god hand and his aoe is the rng 1-3 meteors skill (i hate this stupid thing)

[green folio]

im a brave blade fan 😔

[fresh mulch]

give yusuke hassout boi smh

[rich stratus]

wait

[fresh mulch]

(ill actually balance hassou tobi so this is not unreasonable)

[strong moat]

purely by stats, Makoto is generally going to be the best user of god hand by the end of a first playthrough

(however, ryuji's trait makes him the best user of it in practice)

[rich stratus]

make it so if u give yusuke his final tier sword from yoshitsune it also give him hassou tobi

[green folio]

if the detective apochi in persona 6 doesnt learn hassou tobi im not buying

[fresh mulch]

you cant make non accessories give you skills

you maybe can with exe editing

[strong moat]

just by having Ryuji in the team you get this benefit though

[rich stratus]

wack. i assumed u could because they can have passives

[fresh mulch]

they are different

[strong moat]

off topic but it is funny to see people talk about how skills like hassou tobi make persona too easy

hassou tobi is literally a post game skill I think it's totally fine for it to be unbalanced

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/digital-devil-saga-avatar-tuner-smt-shin-megami-tensei-megaten-gif-7196587623161656347

[green folio]

myriad truths however

[strong moat]

myriad truths is only an issue because you can summon dlc personas for free

otherwise it's an even higher level skill than hassou tobi

[rich stratus]

myriad truths is definitly a funny dlc thing so its balance is like "who cares"

[fresh mulch]

https://tenor.com/view/hong-kong-97-hong-kong-fella-that-reflects-physical-smt-smt-3-gif-6515144009235797140

[strong moat]

although I also think there should only be one major fuck you die skill in the game personally

[rich stratus]

shout out to having aoe heat rise that also heals 50% of hp at level like 14 thanks to orpheus

[fresh mulch]

hassout tobi those i dare you

[strong moat]

those fuckers only null phys in a few games actually lol they're frauds

[fresh mulch]

balanced

[strong moat]

my favorite one is kaguya

[fresh mulch]

p5 they drain and repel respectively tho

[strong moat]

level 16 and you get the strongest magic skill in the entire game that isn't myriad truths

[green folio]

i never understood how this was level 14
personally im for using some dlc personas as long as i actually fuse them myself and dont just summon them but i couldnt even bring myself to use orpheus F

yeah but you do nothing to bosses

[fresh mulch]

ill actually balance the dlc personas so they are part of the persona progression

[strong moat]

shining arrows is a discount hassou tobi at a much lower level

personally I think the only solution there is that both kaguyas need to be a much higher level

[fresh mulch]

plus, the pts are gonna learn most unique dlc skills eventually through confidants or boss rewards, so they have to be balanced at least

[strong moat]

Izanagi cross slash is also goated

[rich stratus]

oo

[green folio]

i love cross slash

[strong moat]

notice how Izanagi is consistently goated in every persona game

[green folio]

i wouldnt mind if it was bit less powerful

[strong moat]

InO in P4 is a fraud though so there's that

[green folio]

i have an izanagi in my current r&v atm

hes so goated

i love my pookie

[strong moat]

but Izanagi is the best starter persona in persona history

by far

[fresh mulch]

oh i might have cross slash as part of the sword-like phys skill progression instead of a unique

forgor it existed

[green folio]

im not the greatest persona builder but 🥹

p5r doesnt require you to have good builds anyays

[fresh mulch]

mazionga

[strong moat]

it doesn't really but it's still fun to have good builds

[fresh mulch]

what matters is you have fun tho

[fresh mulch]

i have fun grinding my persona stats to 99 (help me)

[green folio]

i've barely just unlocked -dyne skills on the rest of my personas

[fresh mulch]

you building him along as you go in the game?

[green folio]

i wouldnt even care if cross slash was like cleave level power. i just love the animation and vfx of it

[green folio]

yuh

[fresh mulch]

this is the mod's single-target sword progression

i guess cross slash could be on top of death scythe

[strong moat]

these were the personas I put together in 2022 for the lavenza fight haha

[green folio]

jackfrost my GOAT

[strong moat]

I just used alarms for that lol

[fresh mulch]

yeah and thats a pain

[strong moat]

it is the fastest way to do it

but yeah

pain either way

[green folio]

levelling personas that are like lvl<20 up is really fun

[strong moat]

at least it's not P3/4 (moreso p4)

[green folio]

i've been meaning to do an arsene only run but i got distracted with rose and violent

violet even

[strong moat]

you'll notice I did a series of backwards fusions for that one lol

looking at these with my current knowledge they could definitely be improved but yk

like for example sword dance on Siegfried is a bad pick

[green folio]

is that going down in arcana with treasure demons

idk shit about fusion

[strong moat]

basically just fusing high level personas into lower level personas and bringing strong skills down

[green folio]

i did think ice age was a very interesting skill to see on jack frost

ic

[strong moat]

yeah from a sustainability standpoint, a ma-dyne would've been better

only slightly weaker but significantly cheaper

but also jack Frost is a bit of a meme pick bc magic sucks in P5 at endgame

(excluding myriad truths)

you'll also notice I do not have royal dlc personas in there. royal dlc was all paid at the time I did this

[fresh mulch]

talking about it, you should be able to do arsene only in this mod (even with it being way harder than vanilla) if you are not solo joker. arsene already learns good skills naturally (tho thats not too important since you can always give him through cards and the hanging thing), and your party members are genuinely cracked here.

solo jonke i have no idea tho

[green folio]

i prolly wouldnt be able to do a solo joker regardless 💔

[strong moat]

there's a few people who used to be active in this server who would've been really good for play testing because they would've definitely found out the meta pretty quickly lol

[green folio]

i've lost every pokemon showdown game i've ever played

[strong moat]

(one of them did weak all P5R on merciless for context)

[fresh mulch]

can you do a blood ritual to summon them?

[strong moat]

unfortunately they're no longer in this server, it's a long story that I don't think is appropriate to discuss here but long story short they probably won't ever return here

[green folio]

😔

[fresh mulch]

[strong moat]

i also wonder if they would take issue with the writing changes anyways

[fresh mulch]

oh now i get why

[strong moat]

I mean maybe they wouldn't, I didn't really know them super well, but I always got the impression that they really respected the original writing of the games

[green folio]

i could only imagine they'd hate to see the state of my save

[strong moat]

there's a couple of people in this server rn who could probably do the same thing (playtest and find meta stuff/exploits) but I'm not convinced they're super interested, they care more for P3/4

[fresh mulch]

persona 5 has gone DUMMY

[strong moat]

i also think at least one of them might question the writing changes too

[fresh mulch]

i mean this server seems pretty p3/4pilled

[strong moat]

this server was built on p4g

lol

[fresh mulch]

i guessed considering the emotes

[strong moat]

p4g is the most significant persona game in the entire series imo

[green folio]

wasnt 32bit p4g the first pc port

[strong moat]

because the reason persona is as big as it is rn is because of p4g

[rare oriole]

well idk about that

def p5

[rich stratus]

yeah id give it to vanilla p5

[fresh mulch]

nuh uh smash

[rich stratus]

its what got like mainstream people into persona

[strong moat]

both on the vita (it was a system seller and it was P5 before P5 itself released) and because of p4g performing so well is why persona is multi plat

[green folio]

i wish persona was mainstream earlier

[strong moat]

P5 didn't even break the PlayStation exclusivity. it was p4g on PC that led ATLUS to realize that wait, maybe we should make the other persona games multiplat

[green folio]

i want my p3 movie dubs 😔

although the cast was also an issue

[rare oriole]

probably because it was cheaper to port tbh

[strong moat]

I think P5R going multiplat cemented the series being more mainstream and popular but it only went multiplat because of p4g's success on PC

so that's why I attribute it to P4G despite P5R being such a strong game overall from that perspective

[rare oriole]

piss tinted glasses imo

[strong moat]

yeah, P4G does have a lot of piss in it

[rich stratus]

Personas fanbase for a fair while was p5 fans who didnt play the game

[strong moat]

P5 and P5R were my first and second persona games so there is that lol

[rich stratus]

because they didnt own playstations but still watched playthroughs

[fresh mulch]

my first was p1 psp funnily enough

[strong moat]

that is true but I think the series did truly explode in popularity after multiplat regardless

[rich stratus]

mine was p3p

[rare oriole]

p5 being emulatable was also a big get for rpcs3

didnt they advertise their patreon with it too?

[strong moat]

yeah lmao

[green folio]

i started with p5, then before I finished i went on a really long vacation in which i started and finished p3p on original hardware

[fresh mulch]

might have to do with a lot of music in the mod being from it who knows

[left hinge]

i just saw this and like "yo? this nice"

[strong moat]

yeah it's interesting bc P5 is a very popular game and I think it definitely became mainstream on its own given its UI design and stuff, but multiplat is the biggest reason this franchise is where it is today

so many people just couldn't play Persona for a while and suddenly they could

[terse shadow]

this is the finished event btw

WhoIsThisMan

[Reply to:](#1440097821834612838 message) i just saw this and like "yo? this nice"

girlkisser

🔥 ANNGST 🔥

Jump

[Go to message!](#1440097821834612838 message)

[left hinge]

like people said today "banger"

[fresh mulch]

its as the kids say "pogchamp"?

[strong moat]

ok I have been up for like an hour and a half now maybe I should try to go to bed again lol. but I mean if you want anything pinned beforehand you are free to ask

[green folio]

goodnight!

[fresh mulch]

might as well pin this one and the finished ann event then

[strong moat]

what I did with one of my mod threads was I had a pinned message with links to all my relevant event changes so that people could easily jump to them. not sure if it would be useful for a thread like this but could be a decent compromise

[strong moat]

link the Ann event?

[fresh mulch]

i have them on the first post if i post them to youtube

[left hinge]

i thought pog was outdated lol but still nice work.

[fresh mulch]

.

[fresh mulch]

oh i forgor, it was "rad" that the kids nowadays say right?

[strong moat]

any verified modder should also be able to pin

I just happen to be around rn

[rare oriole]

about time

[strong moat]

that's been the case for months btw

💀

[rare oriole]

i havent made threads here in months

[fresh mulch]

i forget to ask

[strong moat]

ok yeah I'm gonna try to go to bed. I think maybe running on 3-4 hours of sleep isn't a good idea especially when it's 7am and I still could get a bit more sleep 🤔 have fun though

[fresh mulch]

truly a thread of all time

[fresh mulch]

gnight

[rare oriole]

opening pins crashed my discord

[fresh mulch]

makoann is too powerful sorry

[green folio]

point proven

[strong moat]

oh yeah double clicking the pins button on desktop discord crashes the client rn. it's been a bug for at least several days now

[fresh mulch]

me on browser

[rare oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/makoto-yuki-persona-persona-3-p3-tatusya-gif-8213243485381655103

[rich stratus]

i immediatley did this after u said it

i lived though

[fresh mulch]

must be skill issue then

[green folio]

why did I try this

[rich stratus]

"pressing this button will shock you" type of social experiment

[green folio]

😭

[rare oriole]

"if your friends jumped off a bridge, you wouldn't do it right" bet

[fresh mulch]

oh right i had an event to do

[green folio]

smh

angst never rests

[fresh mulch]

finally i have the start done

(the janky movement will be covered by a fadein)

oh yeah i have to adjust the camera later

they should kiss

[green folio]

lesbians stare at each other in silence

peak

[fresh mulch]

i have to add dialogue i mean peak

[weary rapids]

Something you want to share with the class Girl?

[fresh mulch]

yes the dialogue after i finish it

[tawdry plover]

maria my beloved...

[fresh mulch]

...

[green folio]

OKOK

[fresh mulch]

i wonder who this is...

[fresh mulch]

https://youtu.be/fMbVMO4FfHE

vid very relevant to my own design philosophy

[fresh mulch]

one thing that is constantly on my mind is how I can make failing itself fun or not feel like a waste of time

because given the choice, players will optimize the fun out of a game, specially if doing so is the easier and less frustrating path

a problem with many rpgs are players going online to ask which stats they should focus on. because an uninformed choice from the beginning has such huge implications down the line that can ruin one's experience.

this is mostly a complain with the smt games tho. but one issue i have with persona is how unsatisfying it is to roleplay and make subpar choices

[strong moat]

is this one of your OCs or something? 🤔🤔

[fresh mulch]

makoto

[strong moat]

ohhhhhhhh

inch resting

[fresh mulch]

inch resting?

[strong moat]

I think with persona it's not as big of an issue because the games are easy enough for it to not matter a ton

[fresh mulch]

it still feels bad tho

[strong moat]

it does a bit

[fresh mulch]

and that potential of frustration is enough to make many players ruin their own fun by just using a guide, and that can actually snowball once the player starts developing more of an apathy with the game (personal experience)

[strong moat]

it honestly doesn't bother me a lot ngl actually I felt very fulfilled making my own choices. but it is nice to experience as much as possible ofc

the experience of making my own (even suboptimal) choices is one of the things I like about persona

[fresh mulch]

not the best franchise for that tho

for some things its easier to 'solve' this issue i have. for example me making so that classroom answers either reward charm (getting right) or knowledge (getting wrong. because you learned something)

you can actually optimize this system but i think this one if anything has the potential to be more fun to optimize, because it is a choice

more routing options expand player expression a lot

so i actually make roleplaying funner (you dont have to worry about getting stuff wrong), while also making minmaxing funner

social links? i have no idea

[rare oriole]

i never liked how dialog options were just picking what the other character wanted to hear and if you don't you miss out on points

[left hinge]

Thats why the idea "speak your mind" Mod was interesting.

[fresh mulch]

that is one major problem with persona handling failure that idk what the best solution is, because making you be able to advance regardless of choice makes nothing matter

[rare oriole]

hmmm, i think in dragon age 2, they actually had a system with different effects depending if you were friendly and antagonistic with your party members

(but adding that to p5r would probably be a pain on top of everything else)

[fresh mulch]

one thing persona does right is resetting your confidant points per rank up, meaning that you have a bigger safety for getting stuff wrong while not having minmaxers plow through every rank (they still do because the point requirements are so easy. but mechanically it is solid)

[fresh mulch]

one day i have to try these games

one day

[rare oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/dragon-age-dragon-age-origins-dragon-age-2-dragon-age-inquisition-morrigan-gif-16922963210589543296

consider

[fresh mulch]

👀

yknow, its on sale...

[lunar vector]

IDK how I felt about the friends/rivals aspect of DA2, even though I love that sort of thing in theory... I just friendship'd everyone because "rivalry" was often just mean fkshxsidjs. It also just makes you pick one extreme or another because they're two ends of a spectrum. So there's no interesting combo way to play it... just pick a direction or you get nothing.

Not exactly a deep relationship system.

[fresh mulch]

one thing i was thinking is in crafting the social link requirements for each rank properly, so that the path there has to be more than just perfecting one rank, meaning that the difference between minmaxing and playing your way ends up not being as big of a gap, while still allowing a player that know what they are doing to do it in less days

[lunar vector]

I'd prefer it if you could put points into both aspects of the relationship and get small benefits of both, but only had enough points to complete one or the other in full. i.e., reward minmaxing without punishing roleplay of a more complicated relationship.

(Still re: DA2.)

[fresh mulch]

imagine a perfect rank giving 20 points total, and the next rank is 30, mathematically you can perfect one and as long as you get ten from the other you are good. a player playing casually may end up getting 15 points in both, and that is enough for them as well, but there's a chance that you might be missing a few, in which case chihaya you spend a bit more time, but not too much its overly punishing

basically im thinking in how i can raise the floor and lower the ceiling. seems like the easiest way to make suboptimal roleplay decisions not feel awful

[fresh mulch]

feck it im getting this

im easily manipulated with lesbianism

[lunar vector]

😈

[rare oriole]

👀

maybe i can turn you into a zutomayo fan...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfDXqY-V0EY
alien cat girl yuri mv

[fresh mulch]

i shouldnt have revealed my weak point

[fresh mulch]

vote me for president so girls can kiss eachother more

ill build a yuritopia

[grand cipher]

what anime even is that? Never seen it

[fresh mulch]

the reply

[strong moat]

no actually I don't really agree to be honest!

like some small things, yes. the thing you brought up with classroom answers, yeah sure. bc that stuff is kinda silly anyways how are you expected to know a lot of that stuff. a lot of people use guides or the help menu (note the thing with that is that people will try to optimize with that anyways lol)

in p3 you had the option to pay attention to lecture (+knowledge) or go eepy (your condition gets better)

but tbh everyone goes for knowledge bc why wouldn't you

[fresh mulch]

you can just savescum the bathroom to get better

(another bad mechanic imo)

[strong moat]

but social links? no I think that it having the option to be non optimal is actually really good

[fresh mulch]

yeah i want to have that

[strong moat]

that's tedious anyways, so I don't think it's actually that bad

it's actually optimal to get sick

you get more courage that way from going to the nurses office

[fresh mulch]

i dont even go twice in a row to tartarus so that doesnt matter much

[fresh mulch]

yeah i do think that too

[strong moat]

no one does lol

the game gives you plenty of time to go to Tartarus so the tired mechanic is just a way to force you to do something else for a few days

same deal as sp

[fresh mulch]

i do wanna try to have the gap between suboptimal and optimal to not be as wide, while also not feeling like the game lets you get away with everything

i just said that persona is not the best franchise to roleplay because there isnt that much roleplay compared to many others tbf

but i guess in this case its a more lowstakes roleplay

trippy

[green folio]

im watching a friend play p3r for the first time and he goes to tatarus like 10 times a month

its funny but i just let him do his thing

as long as he's having fun

[fresh mulch]

"who likes going to tartarus?"
your friend:

https://tenor.com/view/oh-boy3am-gif-10356365

[strong moat]

I like that P3F doesn't really punish you much for grinding poorly in Tartarus

like you have a lot of time at night to keep going if you want

[quiet prism]

I got a question. What Rei's personality like. I know that the more canonical aspects Ren were something of a cuckoo lander, as is the case was most of the wild cards, but I get the feeling that that won't be the case here

[strong moat]

dungeon pacing is something I think both P4 and P5 suffer with because of the way they handle dungeon crawling sessions. they're during the day so they take up valuable day time slots, and the reliance on SP means you can stay dungeon crawling for a while

[fresh mulch]

unfortunately it is a mechanic that brings a negative feeling to many players, so regardless of how well balanced it is (cough tactics cough) the players will complain about it

[strong moat]

FES will just. kick you out at a certain point (admittedly FES isn't perfect either though)

[quiet prism]

There's a reason why you can bum rush the dungeon in a day .

[strong moat]

at a certain point I think it's just silly though

how much of the criticism towards P3F is because people went in expecting something like P5?

[terse shadow]

Relevant convo:

Zaiaku

[Reply to:](#1440097821834612838 message) I got a question. What Rei's personality like. I know that the more canonical aspects Ren were ...

girlkisser

how would yall describe ren's personality?

Jump

[Go to message!](#1440097821834612838 message)

[fresh mulch]

rei is like ren but slightly more awkward and sassy i guess

[strong moat]

because I can tell you I think a lot of it is because of that

[quiet prism]

Wait is p3f another way saying FES, or it's on mod

[green folio]

fes

im pretty sure

[fresh mulch]

a big issue with p4 and p5 is how disconnected the philosophy between the day-to-day and dungeon segments are. in the social sim aspect you have limited time and you 'have' (not really) to plan ahead. but dungeons are almost designed to plow through in one day to get it over with

i guess they thought that most players will want the social sim side more?

[fresh mulch]

idk i wasnt in the persona fandom before p5 release

[strong moat]

fes

[strong moat]

P5R in particular is really bad with this last one

[rare oriole]

just pull a wow and reverse the effects instead of a tired, normal is the base and being well rested provides like 20% exp or something

[strong moat]

really really bad

it's not even that hard to one shot kamoshida's palace (at least as far as the game will let you)

P5 even removes the factor that P4 has of, oh shit we need to face the boss do we have enough HP/SP? you always go in at full

[fresh mulch]

i actually enjoyed my time with fes including tiredness and tactics(just not the social link mechanics). and i wish i had gotten into the answer after getting more familiar with the persona gameplay. because i got frustrated there because i had skill issue

[strong moat]

fes has a lot of unpolished but great mechanics. I even think the social link mechanics are really good

just. unpolished

[strong moat]

well that's what I mean, a lot of people played P5 before P3F so they want the game to play like P5 bc P4 kinda plays like P5

[fresh mulch]

i can actually play the answer right now since you dont need a completed save

i should try again

[strong moat]

yeah!

actually I came to appreciate many aspects of the answer's gameplay

there's still some bullshit in there though lol

[fresh mulch]

wasnt there a lot of evade element?

[strong moat]

and honestly I still think that the gameplay to story balance is poor

[strong moat]

yes
so it would potentially cause your AI party members to grief but for you, you had the choice of going for weakness or going for consistent damage

[fresh mulch]

i think we can all agree that atlus will never rerelease the fes experience again right?

... 🏴‍☠️

[strong moat]

yeah probably not

a bit sad

the thing about reload is that it will never really be FES (duh)

but even with how it's inherently designed you can only do so much to mod FES mechanics back in. meovv is certainly trying but

[fresh mulch]

reload if it was good (i never played it)

[strong moat]

p3r combat tends to focus more on hype moments and aura, similar to P5R

[strong moat]

to be completely honest I don't really like it but i think it's still worth giving a shot it does some stuff well

do NOT play episode aigis though it's actually dogshit

[fresh mulch]

ill fix reload when i have time ill make it gay yall dont worry

[strong moat]

I do not say this lightly but I think it is one of the worst persona experiences I've played

[fresh mulch]

i already have it so im gonna play it

[strong moat]

reload is great in that regard because they tease a gay romance

and then immediately shoot it down

[rare oriole]

what gay romance??

[strong moat]

protag and ryoji

[rare oriole]

ohhh yeah

[strong moat]

it's so funny to be honest

but it's still like. 💀

[strong moat]

I'm sorry 😔 at least play the fes version first

[fresh mulch]

mitsuru and yukari has an unskippable 6 hour scene but unfortunately that went nowehre

[green folio]

i wouldnt mind aigis dlc beign shit if it wasnt $50 🫩

[strong moat]

I could write a whole essay on how much I dislike episode aigis reload, I genuinely do not think it could be fixed even with mods

[fresh mulch]

i can fix her

[rare oriole]

im sorry, it's a haram game so all girls have to be into the bland self insert protag

[strong moat]

to be clear I in particular hate it a lot and I think it's not worth it for free.

some other people do like it though and think there's some worth in it

[fresh mulch]

i enjoyed p1 this cant be worse

[strong moat]

for me it's just so watered down from the fes version, it entirely guts the best aspects of the story due to 2010s persona fan criticism

[strong moat]

it is

P1 at least has pretty decently good writing (a lot of it you probably won't see unless you go quite out of your way for it though)

[fresh mulch]

but seriously how tf is p3 makoto liked by any girl 😭

[strong moat]

I will also say I think episode aigis has better gameplay mechanics than base game but it's still not great and the thing I really care about with persona games is their writing

[fresh mulch]

his personality is being a door

[green folio]

doorkun

[fresh mulch]

i can turn my brain off and enjoy that then

[strong moat]

well P3R (both versions) just end up being really easy

not even in a P5R sort of way where it's still fun. at least in P5R you don't one shot bosses unless you're overleveled and or using InO

[fresh mulch]

deadass he's the definition of the average harem protagonist. dude just sits there nodding and the girls fall for him

[rare oriole]

you dont get it, having almost no personality actually shows how deep and depressed he is

https://tenor.com/view/jonah-hill-emo-punk-hair-flip-gif-13673612

[strong moat]

I don't actually think Makoto is that lame personality wise ngl

but

[fresh mulch]

you can actually make the argument for jonke and yu to have any pull

but not makoto

[strong moat]

Kotone clears

none of the Makoto romances are really compelling anyways

imo

it ends up being more about which characters I like personally whereas with P4/5 I can think of their dynamics being more fun

tbf these games are self insert games to some extent so I get it

[fresh mulch]

it accomplished that objective well, but i dont think its a good objective

[strong moat]

but P4/5 still have that self insert dynamic too

sooooo

[fresh mulch]

p4 and 5 show how to do it better

[fresh mulch]

what

[strong moat]

:D

I have to get going but. yes. you actually one or two shot bosses regularly late game

(the Tartarus floor guardians)

[fresh mulch]

first thing after i beat it ill be modding that

[strong moat]

you don't need to worry about that

because there's already like 4-5 separate balance mods for P3R LMAOOOO

[fresh mulch]

yeah but do they have yuri

[green folio]

looking at p3r modding scares me

i dont like unreal engine

[fresh mulch]

also, you have much more freedom with p3r modding right?

there is some stuff id like to try regardless

[rare oriole]

all this shipping for the player, when are you gonna start shipping personas

[fresh mulch]

true celestine and ella should kiss non-wholesomely imo

[strong moat]

I will get back to you later but.....kinda?

[fresh mulch]

huh. i'd heard about it being easier because unreal. havent looked into what you can actually do yet (havent even played the game)

[fresh mulch]

oh yeah i had an event to make

i feel judged

[weary rapids]

You are

[fresh mulch]

makoto found my search history

[lunar vector]

I need to push all the changes to the render so bad 😭

RIP Makoto's hairline....

[fresh mulch]

indeed

she's balding 😭

[uncut depot]

i lost a bunch of time doing maruki color puzzle the first time but that was because i actively had my brain off lol
i did not struggle the second time when i actually thought it through and i did not struggle with any other puzzle B)

[fresh mulch]

oh yeah before i get to animate their bickering, i need feedback on the current script

[fresh mulch]

direct continuation

im trying to hit the keypoints in this first draft at least

[fresh mulch]

(the shift here will flow more naturally with proper animating and a longer pause i think)

[uncut depot]

yeah thats why my archon rebalance vision only gives one or two ailments per boss, all tied in with their characterization and with fast heal in endgame

[fresh mulch]

showing first drafts is anxiety inducing

[strong moat]

the real problem is that ailments are such an insignificant part of many fights that they aren't even shown in the analysis menu lmao

[uncut depot]

i watch a lot of competitive pokémon where statuses can actually swing a match and i used the shit out of binds in q2 (partly because theyre good and partly because akechi lol) but i get u

[fresh mulch]

pokemon is very different from most jrpgs tbf

[strong moat]

so it is a better documented engine with a more established workflow because it's kinda universal between UE games. there are less limitations in some areas as a result but for more "simple" tasks I tend to find the older persona games easier to mod

it's just annoying having to cook everything

[fresh mulch]

i see so it has a bigger ceiling

[strong moat]

you still have ATLUS bullshit to deal with either way

flowscript makes its unfortunate return

[fresh mulch]

(this is the script i need feedback before animating)

[green folio]

what is the difference between xrd777 and astrea in p3r

opening this for the first time is overwhelming

[strong moat]

astrea is epa

oh there's another reason to dislike episode aigis if you like yuriful writing

they de-yurify Yukari/Mitsuru and make it all about the protagonist lol

[fresh mulch]

ferb, I know what we're gonna do today

[strong moat]

I mean you can (kinda) fix that but I don't think you can realistically fix all of it anyways there's just so many problems with EPA....

[weary rapids]

We need to take over Atlus

[fresh mulch]

what is easier, fixing that or my parents' relationship

[weary rapids]

We can do it we have to just believe

[fresh mulch]

having fun with speaker.dat

[uncut depot]

i just sorta dropped in there whenever alarm went off mid infiltration lol, chihaya ability makes them pmuch drop from the sky
good way to sack all the fodder personas i was getting from insta kill :V

[uncut depot]

razbuten my beloved

[uncut depot]

i always did find it weird that answering right gave knowledge tbh, like if you answered right then by nature you already knew the information

[uncut depot]

i actively did not bother to optimize my dialogue options and still maxed every confidant with a month to spare by hitting chihaya up constantly
lmao

[strong moat]

it was better in older games where it gave charm

[uncut depot]

gamers when a grieving teenage girl is irrational

[uncut depot]

femc reloaded

[fresh mulch]

persona fans when a teenage girl

[uncut depot]

yeah i rember that from fes lol, i went from that to og p4 and was like
"why change that...?"

[fresh mulch]

oh well i guess ill proceed with this then

[uncut depot]

i believe you but i still think it shouldve at least come with digital premium so that the extra $30 gives you something other than just fucking outfits

[fresh mulch]

the funny face

https://tenor.com/view/persona-5-five-royal-p5r-gif-10517532707493031533

[fresh mulch]

thoughts?

(yall see where im going with makoto here?)

[lunar vector]

Seems in-character? It's kind of hard to judge one small scene like this beyond that.

[fresh mulch]

i guess i'll just finish it then

yall remember when makoto starts following you around like a dumbass (affectionate)? is it after madarame is defeated?

[lunar vector]

I think it's after that 🤔

[uncut depot]

i think after the principal calls her in

[lunar vector]

Yeah ^

[fresh mulch]

this one?

oh probably this one

furthur

[lunar vector]

There are a few like that -- the latter seems promising.

[fresh mulch]

principal 🤝 sui director
sitting on their asses all day being evil

oh i forgor, the sui director also stands up sometimes to look at the window

[lunar vector]

Well, someone needs to have the evil ominous phone calls around here.

[fresh mulch]

i'm pretty sure ive already told it here, but im making so that you need to have the skill Enduring Soul on Loki which you get on rank 10, aka the moment akechi dies, so third sem is unlocked.
he doesnt actually come back to life, tho. its still maruki's thing, since nothing will change if maruki is not maxed

[fresh mulch]

oh right i forgor what i was gonna say

i think i want makoto to start being a bit more prevalent during kamoshida and madarame, but not actually stalk the pts until the principal pressures her

have her be just a slightly antagonistic presence earlier on

she only gets pushy once her recommendations are on the line

[quiet prism]

And that right there is my number one pain was Ryuji. I wonder if his shadow will be about how he's pretty much at the precipice of becoming the same people he does not like

[fresh mulch]

wdym?

[fresh mulch]

(also this is the more polished version of that video)

[quiet prism]

Simply put, as human as they are hot headed characters just make me pinch my nose and frustration. One of my life lessons, a bowed head hides bared teeth.

[fresh mulch]

ryuji doesnt like selfish authority (selfish adults), and makoto at this point is basically a proxy for the principal. he becomes closer to the people he hates when he starts seeking glory over the right thing, not because he's angry

[quiet prism]

That's also a strongly disliked part of him.

[fresh mulch]

i actually think that comes a bit out of nowhere

seems like retreading old grounds with junpei

ryuji at the very start is so different from the role he takes later on. its odd

[quiet prism]

It's typical teenage stuff. To quote the great bard, nothing is more common than the desire to be extraordinary. And it doesn't matter how extraordinary you are, it doesn't count if people aren't watching it

[fresh mulch]

sure but that sounds like a weak reason

also, its def not just teenager stuff :p

[quiet prism]

That's the point it's supposed to be. Think about the event on 7/18. Everybody just rejects Ryuji's desire to be well known as the Phantom Thieves.

[fresh mulch]

the plot basically wants to talk about the pts' getting blinded by fame, and they use ryuji as the obvious signifier of this

[quiet prism]

And then they fall into it as well.

[fresh mulch]

im talking more about the very beginning. he's the angry bleeding heart that doesnt stop the moment he notices something is wrong. he basically leads us to the truth behind kamoshida

it just seems like a weird direction to take him. at least i dont think it was executed in a way that made the change feel gradual

[quiet prism]

Maybe not but to quote a song from the brony fandom, but such is the way of the limelight, How sweetly takes over the mind of its host. Like it or not, the phantom thieves were manipulated into becoming cultural icons and that just bamboozled them all. If anything, that Makoto or Yusuke didn't try to bring them down to earth until the start of the okumura Arc was a strange part

[fresh mulch]

i just felt like the change was too quick for ryuji. i think some small adjustment would be enough

[quiet prism]

Well that's what we're here for right? To plan, talk it out and see if we can put it somewhere to make it more gradual?

[fresh mulch]

btw. the best friend of his elementary school friend just attempted suicide because of a teacher abusing his position of power (to sexually assault her). makoto here is (unknowingly) getting in the way of his revenge, while sweeping the attempted suicide under the rug (the rooftop was not the issue, it was the authority of this school enabling an abuser, the authority makoto represents right now.). him not being angry is like asking for someone stranded in the desert to not be thirsty
sure, makoto cant realistically do anything herself before joining the pts, but her ignoring the issues around her for her own benefit is also a flaw

[lunar vector]

I think anger is an interesting underlying thread that Ryuji and Makoto share.

[fresh mulch]

they are very angy indeed

[lunar vector]

A lot of Ryuji's confidant is him learning how to be productive with his anger. Kinda wish that was reflected more in the main plot -- the progression of it, I mean.

[quiet prism]

I'm not saying it isn't. Nor am I saying is he not in the rightful feeling angry, I'm just saying that in this case losing his temper is no different than when Kamoshida goaded Ryuji into attacking him so he had a "justifiable" self-defense clause. Time and place are key, especially when it comes to actually having the power to do anything about it.

[uncut depot]

i dont think being pissed at the assholery around you is equivalent to intentionally pissing someone off so you can get away with being an asshole

[fresh mulch]

i prefer to not have his growth be 'now hes an un-angry man', more so channeling the anger he has in spades to the right things (like at the beginning, where his anger contributed to kamoshida's downfall)

[quiet prism]

Edit: no wait that's wrong. I meant socially.

[lunar vector]

I'm also a fan of Ryuji and Makoto sharing the lessons about productive anger. Because, uh, Makoto doesn't have a great role model for that at home.

[fresh mulch]

she def gets quite a lot from sae

[quiet prism]

Yeah there's family toxicity in a nutshell.

[fresh mulch]

i dont think theres any way i can have this makoto become a cop by the end. it was already weird in the original game, but with the new focus im giving to makoto acting as an obedient tool for powerful men, and snapping out of it to assert her own individuality, she becoming a cop is just stupid

[quiet prism]

At the very least add a note about apologizing to her father or some such. Or maybe that her father would be fine with her finding her own sense of justice. Either or work

[lunar vector]

Could be interesting to have her decide to be a defense lawyer before Sae does, for them to clash over it a bit, and for the resolution where Sae decides to switch to being a defense lawyer to include an expression of finally learning a lesson from her little sister. Or something along those lines.

[uncut depot]

i still think its not for nothing that vanilla makoto specifically says she wants to be a commissioner, ie. directing on-the-ground cops on the macro level, though in practice im still skeptical that itd go well (you generally have to be an officer first, and ofc are subject to political pressure like any public office)

[fresh mulch]

she commissions makoann art

[uncut depot]

like i get what whoever wrote that was going for and have some charity to that fact but, lol. lmao

[fresh mulch]

nothing to do with the topic, but would rei bottom to anyone?

[quiet prism]

Well, we haven't had much of a personality being told to us or at least I haven't found it. Maybe Ann, by the way you're changing her up, but after that it's a toss up depending on the personality changes dependent on the dialogue choices

[fresh mulch]

plot twist: rei bottoms to sumi

butch bottoms unite

is this art

[lunar vector]

Yes.

[fresh mulch]

im gonna have so much fun making their shortlived enemies-to-lovers yuri

https://tenor.com/view/persona-3-reload-yukari-takeba-mitsuru-kirijo-persona-3-persona-3-kyoto-gif-16259157488227611845

this is my shit

[uncut depot]

YuriStar

[sharp yoke]

I'm fairly certain in the actual game, Futaba was rather "interested" in Ann's Metaverse Outfit