#Persona 4 Golden | Clean Balance Tweaks

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dusky thicket
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that's bad too

true gorge
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I mean, i'd rather him having more options early on

dusky thicket
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and you risk overlap with other characters

true gorge
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than all his skills just getting replaced

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instantly

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Swap elec break and marakukaja i guess

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wdym overlap?

dusky thicket
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i would be willing to consider that bc kanji is not meant as a magic dealer

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but i will hold off right now

dusky thicket
true gorge
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Well isn't just kanji and teddie

dusky thicket
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valid complaint to be clear, that's why we fixed that

true gorge
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getting marakukaja

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My argument is that, even if he gets it early, he is limited by his SP pool. He is starts out with rakukaja, so I assume he is the designated marakukaja guy.

dusky thicket
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that's not what I'm addressing - what I'm addressing is how to fill in those gaps

true gorge
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Oh

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Well I told you

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swap elec break and marakukaja

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and leave it as it is

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Those gaps were there in vanilla too

dusky thicket
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and i said i will consider that, but i'd like to wait for both you and meovv to get thru with the mod

dusky thicket
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"stock p4 suffers with this"

true gorge
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got you

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But I mean

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I think something should not be forced for the sake of just consistency.

dusky thicket
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this mod also kinda has that in a couple of places too. chie's rainy death for instance, kanji's maziodyne/primal force too

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but it's not rly as bad

supple oak
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i should state that the moment i started my test run all changes were locked in for 1.0 unless drastic (making small changes mid run invalidates all tests)

true gorge
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After playing with the mod for a bit, I think we can identify where something would be better. And then make adjustments based on that.

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I am making my changes retroactively.

dusky thicket
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honestly the suggestion of maraku/break switching seems reasonable enough, i would probably also want to move teddie's maraku down too so that would be a slightly bigger change

supple oak
dusky thicket
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my thought was something like this for teddie

image.png
true gorge
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Seems reasonable enough

dusky thicket
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decompresses early 60 a bit and gives him better skills earlier

true gorge
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Amrita in Lv 61 is evil

dusky thicket
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that would require a pre-release patch and it would screw over your testing

true gorge
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Like really evil

dusky thicket
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yeah, don't know how that one wasn't caught

true gorge
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One thing I'm noticing is

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I am avoiding doing bike rides

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because, EVEN when underleveled

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I just don't think it's worth it to replace the skills I have

dusky thicket
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I think there's also something to be said about kanji's B1 media being exceptionally shit lol

true gorge
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Like, idk I think bike ride skills just get replaced way to soon

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which is a shame because a lot of them are really cool

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I think hama on chie's SL was a good change

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like very good

dusky thicket
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i mean, most of them are just going to fulfill a different niche

true gorge
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extremely so if I say so myself

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because you will likely replace it later on

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However, you can get it early enough for it to be very useful

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I'd argue to move diarahan on yusuke's SL too

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instead of the bike ride

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It's just one of those skills I never keep for too long

dusky thicket
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what it seems like you're asking for is to have all the bike ride skills be useful which simply isn't possible without gutting SL/level skills

true gorge
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However, early on it was super useful before I got teddie

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and mediarama

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because I was stuck with yukiko+media and divine grace

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and Yosuke's diarama

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By the time you get teddie, diarahan becomes obsolete

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the one thing he had over yukiko is that his single target healing was better and he got it earlier

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This was on very hard, however.

dusky thicket
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B1 allows yosuke to get an early diarahan so there's commitment there. moving it to SL would be frankly really shortsighted. you could have diarahan by like rise's dungeon if you did that.

true gorge
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Bike rides started after the rise dungeon

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just before naoto

dusky thicket
true gorge
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unless i missed something big

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I guess, just sharing my experience so far.

dusky thicket
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you can complete yosuke's SL pretty early. it is among the first ones you get after all (literally the first iirc)

true gorge
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And yeah the SL is kind of tight.

dusky thicket
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that alone makes getting something like diarahan in SL just, not good

true gorge
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Idk, I don't think i would replace any of my skills with diarahan just for it to be replaced right after when I get megido or ailment boost

dusky thicket
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diarahan is there as an option to get an early full heal

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you just need to commit one (1) day to it

true gorge
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You also get access to 400 HP heals by this point too

supple oak
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200*

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all heal items are restored to PS2/persona standard here

dusky thicket
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the logical solution is to nerf the heal items there anyways, not to get diarahan sooner

supple oak
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golden was always an outlier

dusky thicket
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so with yosuke bike ride, you can get early diarahan before anyone else except maybe teddie if you lock in with him, you can boost your ailment phys skills, you can get credible almighty as an alternative to naoto, and you can just not get hit. seems decent enough

same with the other characters - you either get new niches or you get strong enhancements to skills that require some time commitment

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and yes tbf not all the skills are good (walls shouldn't be bike unless they are AOE, tetra and makara break are very niche, etc)

true gorge
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Yeah 400 HP is crazy in vanilla

dusky thicket
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but P4 just doesn't have a lot of skills to work with

true gorge
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But idk man. By the time you get teddie, you also get blessed hands

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so you pretty much have a full heal.

dusky thicket
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teddie is supposed to be a better healer than yosuke

true gorge
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I will say

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having a very weak party heal

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early on

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made me REALLY appreciate Diarama

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But after getting Mediarama with teddie, I never once had to use it again.

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Early on, however, it was sometimes not enough and was thinking... Man it would have been great if i had diarahan here

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Diarahan is just like heat riser.

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They are high level skills, but they are kind of... whatever?

true gorge
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I mean it is kind of nice, but I wouldn't say it's crazy.

dusky thicket
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never said it was crazy

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it's also not supposed to be crazy

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when you're giving a character a new niche like that, they're not supposed to be better at it than a character that specializes in that niche already.

true gorge
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Sorry I was mostly talking to myself

dusky thicket
supple oak
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diarahan is in fact pretty good

dusky thicket
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if it doesn't, that's a different problem to be resolved

supple oak
dusky thicket
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if heat riser stacked on top of the AOE buffs then I would understand it being a late game skill more

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but well, almost every persona game only has one level of buffs/debuffs

supple oak
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heat riser has some more utility in p4 from my experience

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mostly situational as a counter for a boss debilitating someone in particular

dusky thicket
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in that regard I guess it's a slightly better dekunda lol (but dekunda is AOE...)

supple oak
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im making the daring gigas mf from floor 7 be panicable/crittable/rageable but giving him a bit more HP

dusky thicket
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usually I would think dekunda would be better for that since it's not really debilitate you worry about much but rather AOE debuffs

supple oak
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the boss is a fun pattern but its super easy if you reroll for him going after yukiko

supple oak
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if a boss debilitates you in a buffed state heat riser puts you back in buffed state

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without doing dragon hustle again

dusky thicket
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that does work out I suppose

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how many bosses have debilitate though?

supple oak
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idk ADAHCI

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izanami does

dusky thicket
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give more bosses debilitate clearly

true gorge
supple oak
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Daring Gigas on Sauna Floor 7

  • Can now be critically hit
  • No longer has Sharp Student
  • Can now be inflicted with Rage and Panic (Skull Cracker strats)
  • Has a 1.25x HP multiplier to account for all this
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strat is definitely still just letting him kill yukiko and spamming phys on it when it runs out of sp

true gorge
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Did you increase his SP or no?

supple oak
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no and i will not

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it's clearly very intentional

true gorge
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i guess

supple oak
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plus if panic breaks its pattern the SP won't deplete as fast

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he does 1000 damage, if his SP was infinite it would just be a grindy boss

true gorge
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I tested him with more SP

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I thought he was fine, even if he 1 shotted me

supple oak
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it's rng

true gorge
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I had to use a resist phys persona and guard to prevent this on MC, and just tried reviving the rest

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Wouldn't panic trivialize the encounter?

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Or does it break the pattern as you said?

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and he still attacks on turn X regardless

supple oak
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it's one more way to tackle the encounter

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same for rage

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takes more damage but you'll have to take it down faster too

true gorge
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Well rage is a double edge sword

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it's either he 1 shots you every turn but you deal more dmg

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or you let him buff for longer and prolong the fight

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I think just being able to dizzy him

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would be enough

supple oak
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panic is fine because skull cracker is a proc

true gorge
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You do have to get lucky with the crit

supple oak
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silence isn't because makajam is basically 100% inflict

true gorge
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and it only lasts 1 turn

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as opposed to 2-3

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which is too many free turns imo

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without sharp student, you can crit him more often now no?

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Easy Knockdown into dizzy

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You get a free turn

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Instead of proccing confuse and just getting bailed out

supple oak
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literally the same

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dizzy would multiply the damage

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you can make an argument for everything in the game trivializing it

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sometimes its just more fun to have the option unlocked

true gorge
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Did he have null dizzy?

supple oak
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we're talking about an already easy boss having an additional route added from a proc

true gorge
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Or just sharp student?

supple oak
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yes he nulled everything

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even crits

true gorge
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oh damn

supple oak
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sharp student wasnt doing shit

true gorge
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WHAT

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no wonder wtf

supple oak
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the boss was literally just an rng diceroll you spammed attacks on

true gorge
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I still think removing the null everything and making him being able to be critted and dizzied is enough, but ig the 20% panic is not so bad.

supple oak
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better to have the option added to these early minibosses than to have ailments just be useless wholesale

true gorge
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Yeah I was thinking the same thing

supple oak
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besides literally no one will use it, because there's no ailment affinity scan

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meaning people will only get the proc if they use chie's skull cracker

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because it's already embedded

true gorge
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Skull cracker has bailed me out

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with eniemies with no weaknesses a bunch of times

dusky thicket
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never got why ailment affinities weren't listed in the analysis menu for so long

true gorge
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but only I have recently learned that Skewer is not only stronger

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but also has higher crit chance

supple oak
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yes, thats why having both is good

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skull cracker is utility phys

true gorge
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Yep

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I do think it is a bit deceptive

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Since yosuke gets sonic punch, which is an upgrade from bash

supple oak
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okay but it's damage to damage

true gorge
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so when I first played, I assumed it was the same thing

supple oak
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chie is damage to proc

true gorge
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with chie, that is

supple oak
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you should be able to read the numbers on the screen and tell which does more too

true gorge
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It's within margin of error

supple oak
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anyway im gonna go test mr gigas 2.0

true gorge
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well almost, and it is also more expensive

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so you would assume more expensive more damage, even if it does have the ailment

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aight gl

dusky thicket
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I do slightly agree on this specific one actually, skull cracker feels like it should be an upgrade. I don't know what about it makes me feel that way but yea

true gorge
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I know why

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because in P5

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ryuji went from lunge to headbutt

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and headbutt was medium whereas lunge was light

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maybe? idk lol

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that's how it was for me at least

supple oak
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ah ok

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well

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you're in luck

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you get your way anyway lemayo

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recovering from Panic makes him reset the AI, so he'll do power charge etc from the start

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so its not -3 turns

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its more like -5

true gorge
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hehehehe

supple oak
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i'll re-add the immunity

true gorge
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Justice wins again

supple oak
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this also means no dizzy

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this does kinda wank phys a little bit to be fair

true gorge
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But then...

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what is the point of getting a crit

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you just run into the same issue as before

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OH nvm

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he breaks the pattern

supple oak
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yes

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crit is just more damage here

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and the aoa

true gorge
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can't you tweak the AI

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to detect if he has been inflicted with ailments

supple oak
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i will not touch ai in this mod that's already set in stone

true gorge
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okok, but you could....

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im joking ofc

supple oak
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i could disable knockdown so crit isn't that much objectively stronger than using magic, but then again, magic has been dominant for 90% of the playthrough so far

true gorge
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Nah, just leave the knockdown

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at least you get extra dmg while he is down

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and you can avoid him dodging

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or does that also break the pattern when he wakes up

supple oak
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nah man i do aoa so he gets back up and i can knock him down yet again

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it shouldnt

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i'll test now

true gorge
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kk good luck

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hey also

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why dont you give yourself 100% crit rate

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to make testing easier

supple oak
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because im a real gambler

true gorge
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unless ur doing that arl

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nvm

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knock yourself out ig

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lol

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but man, immune to ailments is 1 thing

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but immune to crits? that's insane dang

supple oak
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literally every boss in p4 is immune to crits lol

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theres like 2 that arent

true gorge
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really?

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i did not know this

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I know you can crit contrarian king and you can knock down the snake

supple oak
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yes, i reverted it wherever possible (some can't because knockdowns are part of their gimmick and if I make them crittable with or without knockdown the gimmick goes to shit)

true gorge
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good change

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I know you changed some bosses to remove almighty resistance

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but not all of them right? I know some of them had a gimmick where they took almost no dmg from AoA

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But most of them, namely the optional bosses, just had that to annoy the player imo lol.

dusky thicket
true gorge
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Hey about that

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Some fights were extremely close in terms of damage

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As in, the boss using multi-target magic almost takes out my party in an RNG manner

supple oak
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aoe phys is definitely going to halt that

dusky thicket
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right, you aren't that far in

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forgot

true gorge
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Also, megidola might be a bit... overtuned

supple oak
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i beat the mf and there wasnt a single crit

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bro

dusky thicket
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๐Ÿ’€

supple oak
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i'm retrying until there's crits

true gorge
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Naoto doing more dmg with megidola than deathbound just feels... Idk wrong?

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But it might be my P5 brain not remembering things properly. She also gets myriad arrows later on so Ig that balances out.

dusky thicket
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3 years later. persona 4 rerun has already dropped prior, addressing a lot of the flaws with persona 3 reload and greatly improving the gameplay. 99% of P4 modders have moved onto the remake. fog restoration has been done for 2 years. yet meovv tolls on, unable to get a single crit on a boss in Kanji's dungeon

true gorge
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Turns out he forgot to turn off bit 24

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Which Arkadia and Swine discovered it was the one responsible for a hidden function within the game code that prevented people with a specific steam ID from dealing certain status effects on some enemies.

supple oak
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ah nah i critted him plenty i just meant after doing these changes

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anyway i know now for a fact he kills yukiko first then yosuke then chie then protag

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he runs out of sp after killing chie

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this is ultra scripted lol

true gorge
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Is it?

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I could have sworn that he has killed me in turns 1-2 before

supple oak
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its been consistent on all my attempts

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maybe theres a roll

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with bias

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guarding with yukiko isnt gonna do shit anyway

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its 500 damage

true gorge
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whats your level

supple oak
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protag is lv16

true gorge
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and yukiko is like 21 or smth

supple oak
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protag 16 yosuke 15 chie 15 yukiko 18

true gorge
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about the same as me then, though I was lv18 after fighting contrarian king

supple oak
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im only going for contrarian after reaching kanji's door

true gorge
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You should, but it's not going to do jack all

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just get 2 phys mirrors and you can dps his remaining 50% HP before he rampages you again.

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Or just test it and see if you can improve it at all

supple oak
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i could phys mirror the gigas with yukiko true billcosbyTRUE

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actually wait i have a phys dodge accessory that's been clutch asf

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i could put it on her

true gorge
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and cast sukukaja with yosuke

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Yukiko, I don't know what it is

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but she ALWAYS dodges

supple oak
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sukukaja is -60 damage

true gorge
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and ALWAYS gets a crit

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Well yeah but you are more likely to dodge

dusky thicket
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Yukiko critmagi?

true gorge
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and not LOSE a revival bead and yukiko's magic dmg

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I think in miniboss and boss encounters

supple oak
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what revival bead bro i let him kill everyone and just keep spamming cleave

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you can win that way

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its almost perfectly balanced for it

true gorge
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if your party member dies mid-way, it will not let them act until the next turn

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or i think this is just minibosses/optional bosses

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and not bosses

true gorge
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and give him the king's rampage

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no one will get away with this anymore

supple oak
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ok i just had the funniest run

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it went for yosuke first this time

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but literally every single hit was a crit it was so funny

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and immediately after

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a gold hand was next to it

true gorge
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let me guess

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the gold hand landed a crit on MC and you had to redo the whole floor

dusky thicket
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Yosuke gaming

supple oak
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no

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i critted them and got the xp

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matter of fact

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next floor had a hand too

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but i alt f4'd

true gorge
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damn bro, I always have the worst flipping luck ever

supple oak
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i was extremely lucky with every hand on kanji dungeon

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i rebellion the mc and dekaja if they suku

true gorge
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I always fish for the dizzy and call it a day

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there is no way I am getting an AoA if there are more than 2 hands

supple oak
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weak aura

supple oak
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getting magician xdd

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realizing izanagi is now a massive SP drain dark

true gorge
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Mazionga>Maziodyne

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RIP

true gorge
# supple oak weak aura

Nah man, consistency. I mean, its boring sure, but you can't argue with the results. Better than getting 1 shotted.

supple oak
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lmfao i destroyed contrarian king

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didnt even rampage

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i made some changes but i might have to buff it as a result

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around 400+ more hp or so

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some data about contrarian king

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it reduces all phys and almighty damage by 50%, it likewise takes 150% more from elec and ice (great for zionga, does no difference for bufu)

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I reverted this Phys resist and made it vulnerable to almighty as well, so now you can choose between doing decent aoa damage or dizzy strats

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for MC and Chie, you have the choice of phys or magic, where on chie phys is likely still better but for the mc it really depends

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you can also Enervate it now, which would halve its stats temporarily and have a chance to make him unable to act

true gorge
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I like the approach

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gotta see how it plays, but it's definitely an improvement from vanilla

supple oak
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rampage on tough guy is so funny it does 1 damage

harsh canyon
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tough guy is truly tough

supple oak
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it shouldnt be doing 1 damage though

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like yeah its nerfed but it shouldnt be literally 1 damage

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dunno whats up with that

true gorge
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this exact same thing happened to me, nerfing the multi hits seem to cause this

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but it could also be that the enemy just does no damage โ€” I am not totally sure either

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I've definitely encountered this on normal enemies too

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Multi hits work well on party members, but when it's time for the enemies to use them, it kind of leads to very low dmg. Could be that the dmg calculation is different for enemies, but I honestly have no idea.

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One thing I Found interesting: I was in heaven and an enemy used blade of fury. My team was lv 42 while naoto was lv55 (around the same level as the enemies)

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Everyone in the party took ~75 dmg per hit, while naoto only took 1 dmg.

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I think a (rather tedious and bad) workaround for this would be to make a copy of the multi-hit skills with the vanilla damages and reassign those to the enemies.

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But I can't really think of anything else

dusky thicket
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I would be interested in seeing some more research being done into that, like why multi hits on enemies are so weird

supple oak
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but the nerfs were massive yes

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regardless, the fight was torture anyway, and rampage felt like a moment to breathe

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i just beat it

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had to use several items

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no grind though

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if you dont count the lucky hands as grind

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gotta try it on normal too

dusky thicket
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id only count them if you went out of your way to farm them

supple oak
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i did not

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in fact i skipped a few

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xdd

dusky thicket
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then yea no (extra) grind lol

supple oak
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the fight was tuff

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like

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wow

dusky thicket
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rampage doing 1 damage is still very funny tho

supple oak
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it did 1 damage to males

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chie and yukiko were taking 20x3

dusky thicket
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this really says a lot about society

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(that's really weird)

supple oak
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probably the rage multiplier

dusky thicket
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ah were they raged

supple oak
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sometimes, i didnt really check all the numbers

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multihits are hard to track

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anyway i dont even think i need to do this fight on normal

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it was tough

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no question

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even with crits and aoa being buffed

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dodge elec on yosuke is clutch (it didnt proc once)

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i also used a karn item on the mc and then he went for chie

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-1 consumable o7

true gorge
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Well, the difficulty from very hard comes from being severely underleveled. So the normal experience will probably be easier anyways.

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Kanji is not so bad because you usually fight him at Lv ~20. After that, however, the level gap between the party and the boss becomes 10+ levels if you don't go out of your way to grind

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I wish there was a way to remove level scaling to balance fights around strategy and raw stats rather than the artificial dmg multiplier from the level gap.

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But that probably requires altering the exe

dusky thicket
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I'm not sure that would work well with persona and especially p4 tbh

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but yeah, definitely code mod

supple oak
true gorge
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ARKE did it and I enjoyed it. That's why I'm bringing it up.

supple oak
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arke also did other things

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as someone who did also nuke all level scaling from reload, i know that in isolation it's a terrible idea.

true gorge
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Because I've been in situations where 1 party member takes 1/4th of the damage the MC is taking solely due to the level difference. And the only real solution to making it "easier" is to just grind. And then poof you magically don't have to stack tarunda+marakukaja anymore.

supple oak
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removing scaling does not address the problem properly and just results in a more flat gameplay experience

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reload bosses also had no reduced scaling to begin with

true gorge
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I guess, but as it stands it is not very fun compared to not having to worry about that, at least for me.

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Every random encounter just boils down to either I kill them in turn 0 with an ambush

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or I get 1 shotted with no counterplay

supple oak
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skill issue

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tbh

true gorge
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But if i come back and level up, then the enemies actually attack

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and I get to see what they do

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Nah man It's easy but it's boring as fuck because you just have to kill everything in 1 go

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or you die, no need to use status healing or anything when everything just 1 shots you

supple oak
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no you are quite literally misplaying, or arke is just poorly balanced and you have no point of comparison

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i have more aggressive scaling than vanilla reload and most enemies have more health

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i also upped all their levels so they are constantly above your own xp curve just like p4 does

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they do not oneshot me

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they do serious damage, not a oneshot

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i copied metaphor: refantazio's values bar for bar. its scaling is good

true gorge
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Open chest
It's a trap
Enemy uses mustard bomb/any AoE phys
I die

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Skill issue

supple oak
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yes ADAHCI

true gorge
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No point in arguing ig. I liked it better when there was no scaling.

supple oak
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no scaling makes early game easier and lategame a slog

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removing scaling means accounting for every single fight being under that expectation

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it's not a simple change

true gorge
#

I'm forgetting what cold did for ARKE but his changes were pretty close to vanilla.

#

He just tweaked a couple of things, though he did a lot of work too.

supple oak
#

arke oversteps a bit imo but idc to get too deep into it

#

arke took a lot of ideas from MQ1

#

as well

true gorge
#

I loved it from start to finish

#

Never felt like there was any BS

#

besides the superboss in the DLC

#

which I had to disable the mod to beat

supple oak
#

joker is unplayable in general

#

you need to datamine it to understand it

true gorge
#

Okay Meovv real talk

supple oak
#
  • more grind than the entire runtime of the dlc
true gorge
#

Metis yay or nay

supple oak
#

idk what you mean

true gorge
#

Same with elizabeth

#

most boring 2 fights ever

supple oak
#

nah liz is piss easy lmfao

true gorge
#

So much grinding

#

I had more trouble with elizabeth than joker

#

due to having to figure things out and making my own personas

#

Joker was straight forward since you could rely on your party members, but the equipment sucked

supple oak
#

were you on heartless

true gorge
#

yeah

supple oak
#

100% caused by the mod then

#

joker on vanilla with vanilla stats is abysmal

true gorge
#

Well the mod nerfed theurgies and all that

#

but it made it easy because i was Lv 78

#

and there was no level scaling

supple oak
#

joker is literally unbeatable without a full 99 team + 99 stats through incense

#

tf did arke do

true gorge
supple oak
#

yeah sure not true just a 0.004% roll

true gorge
#

ill send you my run

supple oak
#

i dont consider it valid tbh since even if you turn off the mod there's still data from arke on your party members

true gorge
#

arke did not touch anything

supple oak
#

heartless joker has several rules which can not even be discerned without a datamine i find it really hard to believe that you did in fact just blindly beat it at lv78

true gorge
#

but whatever i beat it

#

no, I did not beat joker at lv78

#

i beat elizaveth at 78 with arke

#

I did however beat joker without max stats/incense stuff

#

should have clarified that better

supple oak
#

having all 3 buffs is a Sinfull Shell trigger condition

#

im not even gonna question it anymore

#

gg

true gorge
#

huh it's not?

supple oak
#

it is

true gorge
#

its only all 3 debuffs on joker

supple oak
#

ah

true gorge
#

bro if you believe me, you believe me if not then it's on you lol I'm just sayin lol

#

If that was true then using fuuka would be a nightmare

#

because if you don't get charge/concentrate or the healing proc you are screwed

supple oak
#

the rules are all over the place there's like 20

#

and they have no telegraph

#

unlike elizabeth who actually tells you you fucked up in reload

true gorge
#

I just looked at the steam guide to see what he did

#

I thought I was doen after the second ailment turn

supple oak
#

ok thats not blind then

true gorge
#

but you can get an extra turn after that

#

well, yeah

supple oak
#

yeah but liz can be done blind thats what im saying

true gorge
#

never claimed i was a wizard

supple oak
#

her damage already is a tickle on vanilla

#

and all her rules are obvious

true gorge
#

I did not think so

#

I thought it was very counter-intuitive compared to lavenza, for example

supple oak
#

her rule is literally "don't blow armageddon too early, and if you null me you die"

#

its literally just that

#

no other rule

true gorge
#

Well yeah but then how are you suppossed to know

#

that you have to get her from 13k to 10k in 2 turns

#

I thought i did smth wrong

#

but i just was not doing enough dmg

supple oak
#

thats not true

true gorge
#

it is true

#

after you tank the first megidolaon

#

you have to deal enough dmg to get her to ~10k, or something similar

#

if not, she megidolaons you repeatedly

#

I know because I had to do a LOT of trial and error to beat her being underleveled

#

and bust a calculator know when to go into the next phase using a high dmg attack โ€” the only way to reach the dmg threshold for the next phase

#

Also phase 3 has another thing that no one ever tells you

#

which is that, if you attack elizabeth with an element her current persona is "vulnerable" to, she will change the first attack of her next pattern (not skip it like in phase 1)

#

which also threw me off and had to rethink my whole strategy to make sure my persona did not NULL/RPL her next attack, taking into account that I attacked her weakness

#

the fact that this was so late into the fight was just kind of bs

supple oak
#

it seems way more self explanatory to me than literally 20 rules that had to be datamined to even understand

#

both are mid but liz is infinitely more simple

true gorge
#

Eh I think it's about the same

#

but joker is definitely worse

#

like the ailment stuff is just kind of eh

#

same thing with not being able to crit him in heartless

#

The debilitate I do understand because debilitate is super broken af

#

In terms of preparation, I had way more issues with elizabeth

supple oak
#

super broken af and its just sukunda

true gorge
#

No

#

it's 2 whole turns

#

vs just 1

#

With how tight in damage the fight is

#

having 1 less action to apply tarunda/rakunda is pretty significant

#

Also sukunda is pretty significant because that mf dodges a lot. Most dmg is from theurgies, but you sometimes have to hit him with phys when he does not null it to close the dmg gap. So when he dodges a charged god's hand or akasha arts it kinda hurts a lot.

#

Okay enough of that ig lol. I think i went into too much of a tangent there.

true gorge
supple oak
#

very clearly boosted to be used

#

very strong

true gorge
#

Yeah, also the best equipment. A shame that most of the weapons reuse the SEES axe.

#

How is progression so far in the mod? As far as party members is concerned.

#

I've felt there are some points when playing very hard when some skills might have come in handy if they were obtained earlier.

#

If I were you I would fish for marakukaja when you get to rise. Otherwise teddie is going to be a big issue. That's the only way I managed to endure at least so I'm looking to see how you overcome it lol.

supple oak
#

its had no issues so far and im goofing around on purpose lol

harsh crag
supple oak
supple oak
supple oak
dusky thicket
#

rampage doing 1-5 damage is very funny

#

๐Ÿ’€

supple oak
#

it's still preferable i think

#

i'll have to test it on player

dusky thicket
#

it feels very wrong haha

#

1-5 is just so low

supple oak
#

it was doing 30x3 sometimes

#

i checked, no rage

dusky thicket
#

weird

#

I wonder why

true gorge
#

It could be the 5% damage variation. Maybe rampage's damage is hitting the threshold where it actually deals normal damage.

#

Maybe there is a reason all skills had a minimum of ~40 power and stuff breaks if it's anything below that.

#

You could always tweak the strength stat of the bosses to see if that does anything.

supple oak
#

if it works fine on players, I don't care enough to fix it

#

bosses are extremely challenging even with these turns acting as "breathers"

true gorge
#

Hey, kind of an off topic thing, but I've noticed that Rise gets her stats reset once she evolves her persona.

#

I've noticed that the stat gain per level in the Persona.TBL is 0 accross the board

harsh canyon
#

dont they go back to normal when she gets kouzeon

true gorge
#

This is not the mod's doing, however, but it would be nice if it were fixed.

dusky thicket
#

it's an artificial nerf to ensure she doesn't play the game for you

true gorge
#

Not sure, I'm not there yet. I think it did.

harsh canyon
#

yeah that was super weird to see when i first played p4g

true gorge
#

But it's kind of weird since neither of her personas have stat gains per level up.

harsh canyon
#

her stats dont even do anything

true gorge
#

Ik, but it's one of those little things.

#

Not that big of a deal anyway.

harsh canyon
#

is that file already being edited?

true gorge
#

yeah

#

for the party members' movesets

dusky thicket
#

I don't think that file has merging across mods either ๐Ÿ˜”

harsh canyon
#

just copy himiko's stats so it looks less out of place ig

true gorge
#

That's the thing, himiko does not have level up stats either

#

So I have no idea where this is stored

harsh canyon
#

does kouzeon even improve the overall stats?

dusky thicket
#

there are initial stats stored in that TBL are there not

true gorge
#

I think that's in unit.tbl?

#

Or another section of persona.tbl

#

nvm it is in persona.tbl

harsh canyon
true gorge
#

Well, i have no idea.

#

let me take a look and see what I can find

true gorge
#

Because they seem to be just 10 across the board for party members.

true gorge
#

And since we have no idea what the stats are for the second evolution, there is really no way of knowing I don't think.

supple oak
#

divine grace S5 is nasty bro lol

#

in a good way but like

#

definitely felt off seeing it on a party member in may

dusky thicket
#

that one is pretty crazy to me

#

idk why she has that at S4

supple oak
dusky thicket
#

true

#

it is still very funny

supple oak
#

imagine if yukari had it frfr

dusky thicket
#

you could fix reload yukari with this one simple trick

supple oak
#

lets not go that far

dusky thicket
#

lmao

worldly jasper
#

fix reload yukari with this one simple trick (akasha arts, strike boost, strike amp, apt pupil, crit rate amp, multi-target boost)

true gorge
#

Idk man I liked yukari. Just wish that her characteristic was a bit more interesting than just going overboard with the healing cost reduction and that she got a few other options to not end up with the same build every time.

#

Yukiko's Divine Grace is one of her best skills. Pretty much a must-have before getting mediarahan. Otherwise, unless you equip blessed hands, you will never be able to heal enough in fights in a single turn.

#

Media+Divine grace is kind of okay, but after she gets mediarama, she is a beast.

supple oak
#

you can't really give an unbiased opinion when your only playthrough is with arke

#

yukari is pretty objectively the worst party member in the game on all fronts

true gorge
#

True, when physical is king, she does kind of fall by a lot in terms of damage.

#

But I'd say it is just an issue of physical being superior in every way to magic. The same thing kind of happens to mitsuru, but she at least has more options.

supple oak
#

items outheal her and when they stop, ken is also better on all fronts

#

there is never any reason to take yukari for anything

true gorge
#

Okay that is true, ken is goated.

#

Especially in the DLC

supple oak
#

her best skill is media at 1 sp on the lobby that is it

true gorge
#

That was the case for me in the DLC, but I remember using her a lot in the base game.

#

The fact that ken can spam barriers and nullify buffs is ultra useful. But I often used yukari to heal ailments since I was always low on amrita items.

#

Oh and because SP management pretty much did not matter in the DLC.

#

I liked using her because her theurgy charged super fast and you got the party-wide concentrate pretty quickly, but that's it I think.

supple oak
#

(nerfed to charge slower in bosses while ken is not)

#

arke changed that heavily

true gorge
#

I think the only thing arke touched was the theurgy charge with buffs.

#

At least for yukari and ken judging from the spreadsheet.

#

But it was a nerf overall to ken since you had to kind of rely on the 1/2 SP condition along with the normal stuff like attacking.

#

I think I've only used divine intervention like twice or thrice between the base game and DLC.

#

I just opted for his first theurgy to do dmg lol, so that may be why I preferred yukari.

worldly jasper
#

idk i feel like she's still kinda shit in arke

#

since arke doesn't change learnsets

#

ken starts with kougaon at 37 and yukari has boostless garula until like 55

#

and he learns healing earlier

true gorge
#

Hey, I've encountered a major roadblock for the mod.

dusky thicket
#

uh oh

true gorge
#

The megidolaon from the tokyo tower shadow miniboss in magatsu mandala deals way to much damage even with tarunda+marakukaja. Granted, I am ~10 levels below it, but it pretty much 1 shots everything.

#

I have equipped HP boosting gear, same thing happens.

#

You could technically beat it if you grind for the divine pillar or grind a lot to match its level, but that is kind of annoying.

#

I suggest lowering the magic stat to balance it out and make it less tedious. It also does not help that he gets 2 actions back to back before being able to apply the debuffs.

supple oak
#

i'll assess the situation when i get there

supple oak
#

im actually mad bro

#

i got a magician card rankup

#

chie leveled up

#

she did, in fact, have contrarian king's rampage

#

have to save edit now

harsh canyon
supple oak
#

wanna know whats even funnier

#

i got another one immediately after

#

on a gold hand battle

#

where they escaped

#

oh maybe it wasn't contrarian king's rampage after all

#

rudiger labelled it as heavy phys x3

#

the description said severe

#

maybe i just fucked it up

#

its meant to be miniscule

#

oh

#

no it is in fact contrarian king's

#

bro was in fact half asleep when filling out the tbl

#

thankfully saves are retroactively fixed by this so i only have to save edit my current one

#

i do kinda want to test this broken rampage though

#

indeed

#

152*3 is very funny

dusky thicket
#

well that's an easy fix right

supple oak
#

and im not losing that

supple oak
#

yeah rampage is fine on chie

#

16*3 is acceptable damage for this part of the game

#

oh nvm

#

did even more to this other enemy

#

yeah its fine

true gorge
#

Kind of weird how normal rampage is written as rampage171, so if you type rampage in the .tbl, it defaults to the contrarian king one. If anything, it should be the other way around to prevent typos. But that's on me for not noticing sooner lol.

supple oak
#

only once actually

#

i figured i'd wait until she learned it because i do not trust the templates!

supple oak
#

im crying bro

#

magician cards are dropping like candy rn

#

this is not normal

#

actually devious

image.png
#

i have to put mazio on this mf its actually too expensive to maintain

dusky thicket
#

ziodyne at level 17 is crazy

supple oak
#

it is but its also extremely unsustainable in terms of cost

#

i have to let kanji knock down for me

#

which is why im putting a mazio card on him

dusky thicket
#

inb4 2-3 more magician cards

#

this is probably why stock P4G has your magic skills upgrading to multi target instead lmao

#

yet they forgor physical I guess...?

supple oak
#

see that argument would make sense if phys didnt go all the way to severe

#

and almighty, too

dusky thicket
#

or maybe they figured that oh they'll need several cards to get it

#

it's totally fine

supple oak
#

i could have megidolaon by now actually

#

megido is level 35 but rise dungeon has megido in cards

#

think on the bright side, if p4r keeps this, the dlc personas will be fair to fuse

#

actually lowkey what if i register izanagi and fuse him off onto something with elec boost xdd

worldly jasper
#

like even with the god's hand thing in base game you go through like 8 seperate upgrades for it

#

whereas magic will always be agi -> agirao -> agidhain -> severe

supple oak
#

i'd have it by now in vanilla

worldly jasper
#

which was probs their reasoning

supple oak
#

because there would be less rng

#

since everything else is already capped

#

i got 5 magicians in a single floor

worldly jasper
#

lol

#

golden shuffle time sux

supple oak
#

heavy disagree ADAHCI

dusky thicket
#

wildin

supple oak
#

the effects do

#

the minigame is the best in the series

dusky thicket
#

5 magicians in a single floor is insane lol

supple oak
#

yeah ive never had this much luck

dusky thicket
supple oak
#

my og playthrough had like 2 magicians

#

im not trollin

dusky thicket
#

how

supple oak
#

shit luck idk ยฏ_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

dusky thicket
#

sounds like all your luck went into this run lol

supple oak
#

and i actively grinded

#

possibly yes

#

honestly i really dont mind skill rankup that much

#

under reload's system it would probably be ok

worldly jasper
#

even longer if you ever gave him a skill card

#

but gigantic fist is already pretty good

supple oak
#

im avoiding putting skills on izanagi for that exact reason

#

but i have to put at least mazio on the mf now

#

i might dillute it with agi/dia to make it even less likely to hit mazio

#

sp isn't an "issue" per se but recovering it is a timewaster

#

and relying on crits isn't consistent just yet

#

can get oneshot out of nowhere

#

its getting there though

#

the way things are going im finding the phys/magic balance to be pretty good but we'll see

#

havent hit boosts

#

relying on ziodyne is still pretty devastating SP wise, i can't exactly spam it

#

for bosses though definitely a good tool

dusky thicket
#

yeah it does fundamentally feel silly to have ziodyne so early and on a starter persona no less

#

but the SP cost balances it out a bit more

supple oak
#

i might unironically keep skull cracker on chie over assault dive

#

rampage isnt that much worse even against a single target

#

and the panic is good

#

with that said... critrate...

#

its pretty good...

#

eh i'm sure i'll live without panic

true gorge
#

I think I also ditched skull cracker at this point.

#

Yosuke has tentarafoo already right? I think it should be fine.

#

Assault dive feels horrible to use, but I have no idea why.

#

Might be because the animation and sound effect has some oomph, but the skill itself just deals alright damage.

true gorge
supple oak
supple oak
supple oak
true gorge
# supple oak -1 mc turn

Ik, but if you have to recover SP, you can go to Yukiko's and drain low lv enemies to get back to full fast.

supple oak
#

oh bro thats suboptimal as hell

#

rushing and getting cups gets you there faster

true gorge
#

Later on it is, but the lv1 cups barely restore any SP.

#

Sure you can maintain your SP, but spirit drain is kind of underrated.

supple oak
#

idk what you mean by "later on" i topped off my whole team in a couple floors on yukiko's castle before going for kanji

#

spirit drain only benefits one person

true gorge
#

Later on means once cups 5+ start spawning in the current dungeon.
Sure, it benefits just the MC, but if you have ziodyne right now, which also happened to me, you will drain SP way faster with him than the other party members.

#

Plus it just lets you shift the sp burden from your party to the MC while you are recovering it. It's just another way to get topped off.

#

Idk man cups 1 and 2 take forever in yukiko 1F even if you go farming snuff souls along the way.

#

But to each their own ig.

supple oak
#

Did you know you can chain Panic into Dizzy in P4G, for 3 turns of stunlock

Wiki says you can't but it's possible and it's the peakest shit ever

true gorge
#

Yeah it feels so satisfying too, but sometimes you can panic while trying to fizzy an enemy too, and it is pretty sick. I usually get yukiko's ailment fan for that, and it panics more often than dizzying the downed foe.

#

I think panic takes priority if the foe is already down, but if the enemy already has an ailment, then it dizzies them.

supple oak
#

the ziodyne looks silly but if you look at the rest of the damage numbers it's actually not that crazy

#

this was really really fun to pull off

true gorge
#

Is this the first boss to get affected by status ailments?

#

I remember struggling a lot with this guy because you never got a turn to breathe, and he often ended up taking down at least 1 party member per turn.

supple oak
#

charming prince can also be silenced

true gorge
#

what about the king

#

It's just dizzy for that one right?

hexed kettleBOT
#
MeovvCAT

you can also Enervate it now, which would halve its stats temporarily and have a chance to make him unable to act

Jump

[Go to message!](#1338916626447335569 message)

true gorge
#

oh okay, so every boss is weak to an ailment

supple oak
#

so far yes

true gorge
#

okok, i think the confuse is a bit strong

supple oak
#

makes yosuke useful

true gorge
#

so he would have to be beefed up in some other way to make up for it

supple oak
#

he already is beefed up

#

subtancially

true gorge
#

because these are "challenge" bosses

supple oak
#

they are not

#

they're weaker than the base story bosses

#

they're grind bosses

true gorge
#

I mean, you do get good equipment from them, but they seem a bit too easy so far.

supple oak
#

the alternative is making the game a dogshit grindfest where you grind or they deal 400 damage

#

having a strategy does not equal "too strong"

true gorge
#

Well, the old officer forced you to use sukukaja+sukunda

#

to make him waste his turn targetting a weakness

supple oak
#

oh, so just rng

true gorge
#

or you could use mirrors

supple oak
#

so, grind

true gorge
#

not really

supple oak
#

fym not really lol

#

mirrors are a rare drop

true gorge
#

i beat him with 2 mirrors I had saved up to that point

#

and dealing the rest of the dmg normally

supple oak
#

I'm not removing the panic

true gorge
#

I know what you mean, but i think panic is kind of strong. Compared to before, where he could not even get dizzied.

#

And he still does the same thing now.

#

But that's just me. I think it's fine if you think it's fine tbh.

supple oak
#

a strat you can get semi consistent with game knowledge is better than a strat that requires grinding for items

true gorge
#

wrong format sorry

supple oak
#

he does still oneshot you

#

i guarded with mc and kanji, because i knew they'd be targeted

#

that's knowledge

#

you didnt see all the failed attempts

#

just the good one

true gorge
#

If someone goes in blind, do they even know they are weak to confuse, or would they just guess

#

I think silence would be more balanced here.

supple oak
#

they would in fact guess, they likely wouldn't have ziodyne either

true gorge
#

Because at least, he would still attack instead of wiping 2 party members.

#

And yosuke gets makajam at this point, so it kinda works in his favor too

supple oak
#

I'm not going for silence because at that point you may have already deleted makajam and the whole point is giving yosuke a reason to exist

#

originally it was rage

#

keep in mind i took 90 damage while guarding and overleveled (technically) because i reached shadow rise's floor first

true gorge
#

I think I did the same thing, but I was a bit lower level than you.

#

Or I think I beat him before I climbed rise's.

#

He is level 28 or 25 right?

supple oak
#

i could give him fast heal but all that does is i'd have to do 4 cycles instead of 2

true gorge
#

Oh btw

supple oak
#

which is just sp drain and slightly more rng check

true gorge
#

insta-heal sucks

#

like really badly, shio was right

#

you don't recover at the start on your turn

#

but the NEXT turn after you get inflicted

supple oak
#

then its just classic fast heal

true gorge
#

I thought it was like in P5 and P3R

#

where insta heal is, well, instant

#

You could give him that to preserve the challenge

#

it DOES expand your options

#

since you can gimp his turn

#

and while you are at it, just make him able to get silenced

supple oak
#

i think "preserve the challenge" is a bit misleading

true gorge
#

This was my run^

#

Unmodded for comparison.

dusky thicket
#

the only challenge I really remember with those optional bosses was contrarian king (rampage) and Margaret (duh)

#

all the other ones were just kinda whatever

true gorge
#

Yeah same

#

though I never really fought margaret

supple oak
#

I don't want to follow the philosophy of "anything you can use to win that you couldn't use before is broken"

true gorge
#

I agree, but I just think the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.

dusky thicket
#

I support having ailments be viable options to quickly defeat them though. the optional bosses are probably the closest you're going to get to like, Tartarus floor bosses where they have variety in their design

supple oak
#

this boss could already be manipulated with yukiko anyway

#

he targets yukiko with almost 100% certainty

#

sexist cop

true gorge
#

I tried fixing his AI with random targetting, but i could not get it to work.

dusky thicket
#

I like having extra avenues to defeat bosses like this

true gorge
#

Yeah that felt off even without knowing the inner workings.

#

Like why yuikiko? Does he prioritize the highest/lowest ID?

supple oak
supple oak
true gorge
#

Wait for real?

dusky thicket
#

not Chie though...

supple oak
true gorge
#

He just has garu and bufu

dusky thicket
#

more options is nice even if it makes it slightly easier (by making it so you don't just have to dps the boss like any other boss)

supple oak
#

i am absolutely mindful of ailments being insane sometimes. But I'm also easing down bosses wherever it becomes obvious that a grind gate is about to show up

I'm genuinely shocked I haven't had to grind at all

#

besides, i increased its HP by about 15% ish

#

and since it has tier 2 magic, it's already HUGELY buffed

dusky thicket
#

I wonder how Lego baby is going to go for you

supple oak
#

compared to vanilla

supple oak
dusky thicket
#

well actually were there any changes that would make Lego baby harder at all

true gorge
supple oak
#

Again, you are not seeing the 3+ hours of footage of me failing

true gorge
#

The new ailment options are cool.

supple oak
#

i make sure i actually have to nerf something before i do

true gorge
#

Did the ailment not proc?

supple oak
#

sometimes it wouldnt

true gorge
#

Hmm I think this reminds me of joker in P3R

#

where fuuka does not give you the concentrate, so it's either you get it or you are screwed.

supple oak
#

hit the ailment or get NUKED

dusky thicket
true gorge
#

yeah haha, inconsistent, but godly when you get it

dusky thicket
#

ailment isn't the only way to defeat it though right

#

you could just DPS it

supple oak
#

nah absolutely not

true gorge
#

but well I like it since you are not completely not screwed

supple oak
#

you could also yukiko strats

#

since again the cop is sexist

true gorge
#

yeah the original strat is still there

dusky thicket
#

so yeah, just another option, I think that's cool

true gorge
#

And you can just trivialize it by leveling up like 5 times lol

supple oak
#

also my strat would still be a big drain in SP

#

keep in mind i had ZIODYNE

#

that shit was way faster than it should be

true gorge
#

Kill rush all the way ๐Ÿ’ช

supple oak
#

sure

#

but ziodyne would dizzy

#

guaranteed

#

kill rush would have to crit

true gorge
#

Ohh you are right

dusky thicket
#

it will probably make normal/hard easier tho

true gorge
#

Yeah lol.

dusky thicket
#

by merit of having more xp

true gorge
#

Do any of you know the scaling of level difference?

#

I was talking to cold and it was like x1.5 dmg difference if you were 10 levels under.

#

in P3R at least

supple oak
#

my rotation was Pulinpa -> Revolution -> Zionga -> AoA -> Sonic Punch -> AoA -> Rakunda -> Tarukaja -> Zionga -> AoA -> Sonic Punch -> AoA -> Ziodyne -> Ziodyne -> Assault Dive -> Kill Rush -> Sonic Punch -> Guard -> Assault Dive -> Guard -> Sonic Punch

#

without ziodyne and without pulinpa you'd need tentafaroo which has much lower odds

#

and if it failed, well

#

gg

dusky thicket
#

so I guess Yosuke doesn't get to do too much after all lol

supple oak
#

well yesnt, yosuke is there to make SURE panic WILL hit

#

and also because if yukiko was there she'd be guarding all night

#

which is -1 party member

dusky thicket
#

I forget, do you have ailment boosters at this point?

supple oak
#

i didnt

dusky thicket
#

for yosuke

supple oak
#

yosuke can also crit with sonic punch

#

so technically he is more useful than yukiko

#

by default

supple oak
dusky thicket
#

lol well the cop being sexist also doesn't help there

supple oak
#

if there's no weaknesses to hit he'll randomly poison arrow someone

#

which is why i guard with izanagi and take mikazuchi

#

but not with chie/yosuke

#

chie and yosuke have endure from the social link

#

so it's safe

#

there was a lot of safeguards here

#

the panic pulled a ton of the weight but it wasnt the only piece of the puzzle

dusky thicket
#

sounds like a fun fight in any case

supple oak
#

for sure

#

gonna have fun figuring out teddie

true gorge
#

Guys I had a thought while I was playing the game.

#

Yosuke does not really do much at all.

supple oak
#

we been sayin this

true gorge
#

No yeah, but I think if he had 1 more option or debuff during bosses

#

he would be infinitely more useful.

#

I know it's dumb, but I was thinking that if he got tarunda, he would be infinitely more versatile.

#

He is fine in normal encounters with the expanded moveset form experience, but in bosses, there is really no reason to bring him over someone like naoto, teddie, etc.

#

I've seen the value in bringing all of them to a fight because their buffs are extremely helpful and synergize with each other, but Yosuke, especially given his buff is RNG, and that rise just gives it to the party for free, it just does not do him much justice.

#

Now that I think about it, that would LITERALLY make him Akihiko 2.0

supple oak
#

yosuke has the problems of both yukari and akihiko

true gorge
#

Sukukaja+Single Target+Good Magic+tarunda lol

#

Literally akihiko

dusky thicket
#

just kinda ran out of options for what to give him tbh

true gorge
#

Oh brawler, I'm sorry

dusky thicket
#

like P4G doesn't have a lot of skills so you start having skill overlap

true gorge
#

I was thinking the other day, and I think him getting gigantic fist was the right move

dusky thicket
#

I don't think excessive skill overlap is great either

true gorge
#

especially since vanilla naoto already gets tempest slash

#

plus, yosuke's Jiraiya just punches things

dusky thicket
#

sounds reasonable

true gorge
#

But I think the biggest buff to him would be giving him either single tarunda, or matarunda

#

Trust, this will make him invaluable

supple oak
#

yukiko overlap

#

insane

true gorge
#

Yukiko never left my team BECAUSE she has tarunda

#

Having tarunda on Naoto is OVERKILL

#

If anyone could use the help, it would be yosuke

supple oak
#

it just doesn't fit yosuke's archetype

true gorge
#

The buffs to almighty, tempest slash, vorpal blade, and rakunda make her top tier

supple oak
#

i think it's a bit too out there

dusky thicket
#

well with gigantic fist, that's something to keep note of for later bc again, no changes rn

true gorge
#

yeah, ofc

dusky thicket
#

I think there was another change, like moving the AOE buffs down or something?

#

I agree that it's a bit too out there though. I think a way Yosuke could be made indirectly more useful is to give him stronger skills slightly earlier

true gorge
#

This was for my personal mod, but these have been the changes that I made as I did my second playthrough of golden

dusky thicket
#

but that feels a little weird to me

supple oak
#

yosuke + chie + kanji feels like a fun combo for all-in phys

dusky thicket
#

id say if Naoto is a straight upgrade over Yosuke for phys, that's a problem

supple oak
#

youthful wind unironically good in that scenario

#

no need for a healer

dusky thicket
#

but you shall get there eventually lol

#

kanji mediarama + Yosuke youthful wind ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ

true gorge
#

Honestly mediarama+blessed hands is goated

dusky thicket
#

probably don't really need the mediarama honestly but it is funny

supple oak
#

i mean where else is the sp going

true gorge
#

Ohhhh by the way

#

kanji with marakukaja has been the BEST thing ever

#

Because he always goes last,

#

it means you can save up a turn and tank the damage with him

#

pretty much you don't have to cast it as often

#

Equip him with the chakra ring and you have yourself one of the best supports in the game