#Persona 4 Golden | Clean Balance Tweaks

1 messages · Page 4 of 1

true gorge
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man why does this always happen lol

supple oak
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oh right i need to fix severes and heavy magic values

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no wonder shio kept insisting almighty was wanked

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i didnt update the sheet

dusky thicket
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yeah haha

supple oak
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no one's commented on the equipment when that was literally how this mod started

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i'll assume its therefore fucking flawless and i am master designer

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😈

true gorge
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I looked at it, but i didn't see anything too crazy

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As in, nothing that was not improved directly from vanilla (all changes I saw were welcome ones).

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I definitely neglected daidra during my first playthrought because most equipment was not worth going out of my way to get

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And because I just farmed gold hands and avoided most encounters due to being severely outclassed by the hand XP.

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The only game I've actively farmed for equipment was P3R

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For all the others, I just do the quests/get chests and call it a day, even if im stuck with the same shirt from the first dungeon for 1/5th of the game

supple oak
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for me the main gripe was that daidara was often a downgrade if you opened chests, due to how unlocking purchases works

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also, there's cases where the further you progress, the worse the equipment gets

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so i reverted those

true gorge
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Yes! I felt the exact same way.

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Glad you are addressing that too!

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Like why am I going to bother to FARM items and BUY equipment that will just become obsolete in a couple of days.

supple oak
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im actually not sure 650 is that bad for megidolaon when it can't be boosted?

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dynes are 220 now but like

true gorge
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As a rule of thumb, I always buff almighty to 1.2-1.3 of the current magic tier.

supple oak
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both boosts is 1.875

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1.5x of current tier should be fine

true gorge
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Yeah, but with megidolaon, it not only hits everything, but it always hits regardless of resistances.

supple oak
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when has that ever been an issue

true gorge
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Yeah that's fine too

supple oak
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resistances are a suggestion

true gorge
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With my very reliable formula (and secret calculation tool)

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I have calculated that this is the dmg lol

supple oak
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1.5 actually buffs all almighty beyond what i had already set

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lol

true gorge
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Right now the 650 is ~1.35 severe

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I think that's a healthy spot

supple oak
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yeah, more than just boost but less than amp/both

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ig

true gorge
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It only takes 1 spot

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and it is not only multi-target, but it's almost as strong as severe single-target phys

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Whatever it is, I think it's way better than vanilla lol

supple oak
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180 > 400 > 650 for megi then

true gorge
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they butchered megidolaon after p3 idk why

true gorge
supple oak
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i dont think all purpose should be actively rewarded

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but also not terrible

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there's also black viper and morning star

true gorge
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hmm actually... dmg might be too strong for the megidos

supple oak
true gorge
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given how cheap they are

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well whatever, lol we'll see how it goes

dusky thicket
supple oak
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gaming

true gorge
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I'm thinking.

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1 -dyne with amp has ~500 dmg

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For naoto, if you give her a boost equipment, the single target -dyne skill is just not worth using over just using megidolaon

supple oak
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you can give her amp too

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vows are 50%

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oh shit imagine they make vows in p4r too

i can actually remove boost caps in UE4

dusky thicket
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big commitment to a dyne

true gorge
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Well yeah, but giving her boost and amp

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why do that

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when you can just use megidolaon and not have to worry

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about accessories at all

dusky thicket
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would it be possible to reorder the skills again btw?

supple oak
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because megidolaon is her last skill unlock? cant judge a party member based only on how they end

dusky thicket
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it would be helpful for visualization

supple oak
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but i will after

dusky thicket
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gotcha thanks

supple oak
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resorted

true gorge
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Yeah i know, but still. Why use brave blade/vorpal blade when you can just use megidolaon and hit everything

supple oak
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i thought i made severes 320 but its actually 350

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small diff anyway

dusky thicket
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I'm going to try to throw together a ""quick"" chart of damage progression in P4G - just going to use hit*mod*sqrt(power)*sqrt(st/en) because that seems accurate for relative damage

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does that seem right at all

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there's the gamefaq post that multiplies it by 5 but i dont know if thats accurate and i dont think its relevant anyways for something like this

supple oak
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you can remove st/en from the equation since it's theoretical

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you'd always assume 1st and 1en

dusky thicket
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for party members would you not want to assume different st/ma based on their lvl

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i will go with 1en though

supple oak
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if you want to compare them directly

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ig

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atp you're making a damage calculator

dusky thicket
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yeah i don't know how useful something like that would be but

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yeah kinda

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maybe this will take longer than expected actually, and it doesnt really do a good job at taking stuff like bike or SL into account

supple oak
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i dont see that much point in that case

dusky thicket
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yeah

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probably something to do for fun later lol but

supple oak
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anyway other than updating magic on the table what else is glaring

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i forgot what herculean strike's problem was again

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its flauros only

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i can put it at the top of rank 4

dusky thicket
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higher lvl AOE phys ailment for yosuke would be good to replace blight. rn there is no comparable skill though that's why yosuke and naoto share blight

harsh canyon
supple oak
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alright

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120 seems good

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dont even need to change the cost i think

harsh canyon
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cost is now justifiable

dusky thicket
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megido seems very strong for its rank now

supple oak
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on par with cruel attack and is aoe, while cruel attack is single target but has the down bonus

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i think that is good

supple oak
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damn

dusky thicket
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yeah it really stood out lol

supple oak
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it didnt change though

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its always been 180

harsh canyon
supple oak
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magic is just kinda immune to this rank shit because of how little magic there is in the game

dusky thicket
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your sheet shows that stock was 120

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other than that there are a few cases of rank 5 skills having higher ECS than rank 6 but idk how much you care

supple oak
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ye, the dynes

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i just kinda accepted magic can't fit the rank system

harsh canyon
dusky thicket
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i think megido should probably be rank 4 or 5 though just to have that discrepancy not be so excessive

dusky thicket
supple oak
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how do you even change the rank of a skill

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wait

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can shit even mutate into megido

dusky thicket
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idk

supple oak
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i guess theres the card

dusky thicket
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true

supple oak
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there's a fusion forecast for megido

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i think

dusky thicket
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right now blight is 80% acc poison 30%, think it would be good to have a comparable panic skill at that lvl

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aeon rain and arrow rain are rly close to one another in power it's just the multihit and accuracy so i wonder if you could repurpose one of those. but also... neither of those seem to fit a yosuke skill

harsh canyon
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kunai rain naotroll

dusky thicket
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this is true

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there's also akasha arts as an available option too... I'm also thinking Naoto in this case bc I feel like vorpal blade is a little too strong for her

harsh canyon
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chance for random status effect GalaxyBrain

dusky thicket
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higher AOE phys than chie AOE phys doesn't sit right with me

harsh canyon
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is it even possible to have chance of random ailment on a skill?

supple oak
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yes

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just set all of them to true

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one of them procs randomly

harsh canyon
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epic!

dusky thicket
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you get vorpal blade later than akasha arts for p4mc so I guess it does make sense for it to be stronger than akasha

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I think agneyastra should probably beat both though

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Chie specializes in phys, Naoto is an all arounder, Naoto shouldn't be beating Chie there

dusky thicket
supple oak
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he does

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in bike

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thats what boosts his poison odds

dusky thicket
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oh huh, yeah I guess I did do that lol

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shio commented on this earlier but there is a big jump between rank 6 and 7 phys skills

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aeon/arrow rain at 13.4 damage, then going to blight at 19.0, then akasha at 20.9...

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I don't know if you found a way to balance that though without too much work

supple oak
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probably tapping the damage up a bit but like

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rank 6 multihits already outdamage rank 7

worldly jasper
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like 320 and 650 for meghidora and meghidoraonn is good

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like

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its still worse than normal magic lol

supple oak
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bet

worldly jasper
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but its good enough to not be useless compared to it

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unlike base game

true gorge
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By the time you get megido, you probably have Boost+Medium

worldly jasper
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where almighty is dogshit terrible

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like fire amp is a level 40 skill

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and you can get it earlier with magician card

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megido needs it lol

dusky thicket
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the magic buffs are going to unintentionally (or intentionally) trivialize Lego baby lol

true gorge
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180 is alright

worldly jasper
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i mean

true gorge
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for megido

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it's 1.35 medium magic

worldly jasper
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magic was already better than phys in normal progression

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and magic is buffed while phys is nerfed before brave blade

dusky thicket
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magic is already stronger than phys from early/mid to late game isn't it

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in stock

worldly jasper
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mitsuo also resists phys to troll you too

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hilarious boss

supple oak
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not anymore but yea

true gorge
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Wait he does?

worldly jasper
supple oak
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from mitsuo onwards

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50%

true gorge
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Brother that sucks lol

worldly jasper
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not true

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its only Mitsuo, Culprit guy and Izanami

true gorge
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Did you guys touch gold hands at all?

dusky thicket
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hidden resist such a good mechanic

worldly jasper
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the other ones don't

supple oak
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nor will we

true gorge
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are you planning on touching them at all?

supple oak
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no

true gorge
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Okok

worldly jasper
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Naoto has a hidden weakness to elec, Namatame has his weird gimmick thing and then big eyeball is neutral to everything

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but none of them resist phys

true gorge
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I thought that was the biggest form of powercreep in P4G.

supple oak
dusky thicket
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the Namatame gimmick is shown at least lol

worldly jasper
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im a professional gold hand hater

dusky thicket
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like yeah it's hidden weakness/resist but also it's a part of the boss fight

true gorge
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My gripe is that, if something RESISTS something

dusky thicket
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it's not arbitrary

true gorge
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they should at least, you know

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tell you, or display resist

supple oak
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i mean it displays it

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the number is smaller

dusky thicket
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true....

worldly jasper
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oh btw

supple oak
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just spamming phys is technically a skill issue

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should always try diff things

worldly jasper
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naoto's not got a 5% reduction to mute

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well like

dusky thicket
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two questions meovv

worldly jasper
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not that it doesn't exist

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its just that wording is wrong

true gorge
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I think we should buff brave blade by 2%

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so that it counteracts the resist phys of bosses

supple oak
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we removed it

dusky thicket
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  • all you really did was compare Chie to Junpei lol. is she fine
  • how do you think Naoto stacks up rn against the rest of the party members excluding Yosuke
worldly jasper
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its basically impossible to inflict it and she's only able to be barely inflicted at all because mute ray has 100% inflict and can be repelled

supple oak
dusky thicket
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kk

supple oak
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i think naoto actually has a use now that makes choosing her valid

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i think yosuke is just cucked on all fronts

true gorge
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Debilitate suggestion lesgoooooo

supple oak
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better healing, evasion, or megidolaon would save him

dusky thicket
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I was thinking of moving some stuff from naoto to yosuke

supple oak
worldly jasper
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i don't think izanami needs sharp student at all btw

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crits are 1.25x lol

supple oak
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sure

dusky thicket
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idk how Yosuke could get better evasion without ali dance

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better meaningful evasion*

worldly jasper
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ari dansu fits him more than naoto at least like archetype wise

supple oak
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i think youthful wind is just a joke tbh

worldly jasper
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although yosuke ironically doesn't have good ag

dusky thicket
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I'm thinking of moving stuff over to him from Naoto

true gorge
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Well, you did move sukukaja back

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gave him moves in between

worldly jasper
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sukunder

true gorge
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and improved his bike skills

worldly jasper
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i think you could give yosuke masukundeez on bike

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as an idea

dusky thicket
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I also want to give Naoto invig 1/2 somehow

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would be funny

true gorge
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That does not stick well late game unfortunately

worldly jasper
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i rly don't think she needs it

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cus like

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although funny

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invig 1/2 are terrible skills

true gorge
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especially not with debilitate on naoto

worldly jasper
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especially for like level 50+ lol

dusky thicket
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it just feels right when you have Kanji with all 3 haha

worldly jasper
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well like

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regen >>>>> invigorate

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and both have the equivalent Master skills

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which is parallel

true gorge
supple oak
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i absolutely will force the invigs into naoto no matter what

worldly jasper
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are the weird sp regen passives from marie dungeon equipment actual passive skills

supple oak
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they stack

dusky thicket
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oh true

worldly jasper
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cus if so you could give naoto the like +20sp per turn one lol

dusky thicket
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invigorate 4....

harsh canyon
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invig 5

dusky thicket
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she's just like Ken reload...

supple oak
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marie dungeon shouldn't be used as an argument since the equipment fully vanishes

worldly jasper
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tbh invig 3 should be like +24 sp per turn if they wanted me to use it

supple oak
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useful passives 🥴

worldly jasper
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no meovv i was saying that she should have that passive as base kit

true gorge
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Well

worldly jasper
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since normal invigs suck lol

true gorge
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I have an idea

harsh canyon
supple oak
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ah no you cant have it as a skill

worldly jasper
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unfortunate

dusky thicket
true gorge
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you can get mage's mark in daidra, which is invigorate 1
make naoto start with invigorate 2
get invigorate 3 in social link

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bam, all 3

worldly jasper
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to me it just kinda feels like bloat

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like you could technically fit it in

supple oak
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you do not understand

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i dont care if its bloat

dusky thicket
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it is bloat

supple oak
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im putting all three skills on her kit

dusky thicket
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but I think it makes sense design wise

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does that make sense lol

worldly jasper
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random level up skill for no reason naotroll

supple oak
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just replace them if you want

worldly jasper
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remove tempest slash for invig 1 and remove deathbound for invig 2

true gorge
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Idk about all of you, but I really liked getting invigorate on naoto

worldly jasper
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since both are outclassed on her now due to meghidora buff

true gorge
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it caused neuron activation every time

dusky thicket
true gorge
supple oak
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sorry man getting all three skills to proc and waste 10 seconds every turn is funny and im not removing it

worldly jasper
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it doesn't waste time in 4

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that's only a p3 thing

supple oak
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i hate persona 4

dusky thicket
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that's why p4 is soulless

worldly jasper
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p3 also has like fucking 8 seperate regen/invig skills

dusky thicket
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P4R will be soulless too if they keep this egregious design decision

worldly jasper
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which is why it rocks

true gorge
dusky thicket
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in P3 yeah lol

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and it spins the camera a bit every time

true gorge
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ahahahahahahahaha

worldly jasper
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creating a mod menu'd monstrosity with invigorate 1, 2, 3, regenerate 1. 2, 3 and both springs of life to waste literally a whole minute before each turn

true gorge
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that's hilarious lol

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Man I think the second worst offender offender of this would be the will seed skills in p5

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they take foooreeever to cast

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I swear I keep marakukaja on makoto because I despise using vault guardian

worldly jasper
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i mean

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why would you ever give her that lol

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its a duplicate of a skill she already has

true gorge
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late-game speccing

worldly jasper
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give her god's hand lol

dusky thicket
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god hand equip ahahaha

supple oak
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99 all makoto

worldly jasper
#

factually her best skill

supple oak
dusky thicket
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imagine if you could exceed the 99 cap with accessories

worldly jasper
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its so funny that party members can't get magic ability so god's hand is the best skill on every single character

true gorge
true gorge
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I didn't know this was a thing lol.

dusky thicket
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anyways: what if Yosuke got angelic grace as an early bike ride and upgraded to Ali dance B5? would that be stupid

worldly jasper
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angelic grace feels pointless to include at that rate imo

true gorge
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he would get it too early

supple oak
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early doesnt matter for yosuke if he's always getting outclassed

worldly jasper
#

angelic grace is just a bad skill especially on a character who already has an evade passive and either nulls or resists two magic types already

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like ali dance is funny so i think its fine if you want that at b5

dusky thicket
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I don't really want to give Yosuke megidolaon

worldly jasper
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but angelic grace feels like a waste

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unironically evade phys would fit better

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guy who overwrites ali dance for evade elec:

dusky thicket
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I think that leaves his agility and his healing

worldly jasper
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imo

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something like fucking uhh

dusky thicket
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idk what else can be done with healing besides AOE heals and I don't think that fits him

worldly jasper
#

B1 Diarahan
B2 Green Wall
B3 Masukunda
B4 Megidola
B5 Ari Dansu

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would be fine

true gorge
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i already said my piece before, don't think there is anything else besides that

worldly jasper
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if you wanna cover all aspects

true gorge
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if only ali dance stacked

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with evade elec

dusky thicket
true gorge
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it would be goated

worldly jasper
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ali dance is already stronger tbf

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and covers everything

dusky thicket
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oh right, insta heal

worldly jasper
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i think having both megido and megidola feels pointless

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just include one probs

true gorge
dusky thicket
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something I've noticed with bike skills is that they tend to start off with a weak alternate skill

true gorge
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i think every bike skill should be unique

dusky thicket
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and then upgrade it

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media -> mediarama for example on kanji

worldly jasper
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kinda leads to wasted days tho imo

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like its not bad per se

true gorge
worldly jasper
#

but it means you can cover less ground

dusky thicket
worldly jasper
#

see? i'm a genius

true gorge
#

Now the question is

supple oak
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sorry can you compare shio's bikes to brawler's bikes

true gorge
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is getting megidola late better than getting megido early

dusky thicket
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I think I'd want to tone down Naoto a bit in some way to make Yosuke a viable alternate option

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because I think Naoto's biggest buffs here were the support skills

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I'm not sure her damage needs to be higher than Yosuke too lol

worldly jasper
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i mean

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oh

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i said better than her

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so it got removed

dusky thicket
#

I also am still not a fan of Naoto having stronger AOE phys than Chie

worldly jasper
#

yosuke's damage is always HIGHER than Naoto's

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because he has higher stats and gets boosts

worldly jasper
true gorge
worldly jasper
#

oh yeah that shit needs buffed lmao

true gorge
#

this is the current version

worldly jasper
#

in comparison to vorpal mid and meghidoraonn

true gorge
#

Vorpal blade is goated now

worldly jasper
#

eh

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it still kinda sucks imo

true gorge
#

maybe too goated

worldly jasper
#

its much worse than like maragidhain

true gorge
#

you guys buffed the crit or no?

worldly jasper
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i think all aoe phys is 5% crit still

true gorge
#

if you make vorpal blade weaker but have a higher crit rate

worldly jasper
#

i think that's kinda lame

true gorge
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i think it would distinguish it a lot from chie's

worldly jasper
#

high crit also doesn't fit naoto

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chie is the crit girl lol

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i like high crit on deathbound cus that's what it used to do lol

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but on vorpal blade it feels forced

true gorge
#

I thought vorpal blade always had higher crit %

worldly jasper
#

nope

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it was 5% in p3

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its gimmick was that it did double damage while you were in great status

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so it was the strongest non-fusion spell in the game

dusky thicket
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currently with Naoto

image.png
true gorge
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Ahh i see

dusky thicket
#

I moved ali dance to yosuke so what to give to Naoto in bike rides...

worldly jasper
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maybe move brave blade to b5 for now and think of something else for b4

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cus brave blade's probs the best she'll get if she ain't getting the best skill in the game lol

dusky thicket
#

seems fair

supple oak
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for the record as soon as we settle i think i'm starting a playthrough of p4g lmfao

dusky thicket
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sounds good haha

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you can do that and we can patch things based on your experience

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plus you get to play peak again adachi_true

supple oak
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im going to completely ignore optimal social activities and play it like a dating sim visual novel

true gorge
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like a true persona fan

supple oak
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i mean

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thats how it was meant to be played

dusky thicket
#

no invig 1 though....

image.png
true gorge
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that's what i did on my first playthrough at least lol

dusky thicket
#

invig 1 B4

true gorge
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I used to hate the combat

dusky thicket
#

it's perfect

supple oak
true gorge
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yes i know

supple oak
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ah

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i meant ignoring activities for what they give you and doing them for their content value only

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i didnt even join clubs my first time

true gorge
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whaaat really?

supple oak
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yeah i only did like 10 of the 22 social links

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ng+ was way more fun

true gorge
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I think that's how it's meant to be played.

supple oak
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it was

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not anymore

true gorge
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I stress a lot about being optimal

supple oak
true gorge
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so I end up wasting a lot of time reloading saves

dusky thicket
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lmao

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i have a stupid idea for b4

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it's because i legit cannot think of anything else so dont take this tooooo seriously

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unshaken will

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a skill you get at lvl 92

true gorge
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I like it

supple oak
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kek

dusky thicket
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lmao

true gorge
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But that's like

dusky thicket
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fuck ailments

true gorge
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insta heal but worse

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oh actually no

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it's the same...?

dusky thicket
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why? it just straight up says no ailments except poison

true gorge
#

oh i forgot there is no shock/freeze

worldly jasper
# dusky thicket no invig 1 though....

oooohhh you wanna overwrite tempest slash so baaaad~~ oooohhh at its current stats it serves no purpose in her kit due to her higher magic stat, megidola's higher base and the prescence of mind charge ooohhhhh~

true gorge
#

but that is an exclusive skill no?

dusky thicket
#

no

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it's on 2 protag personas

worldly jasper
#

tempest slash is a normal ass skill lol

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its from p3

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albeit it had its stats demolished in p4

true gorge
#

It seems to be

dusky thicket
worldly jasper
#

sqrt 90 1-2 in p4 vs sqrt 350 1-2 in p3

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lmao

supple oak
dusky thicket
#

replace tempest slash with invig 1

true gorge
#

yessss

dusky thicket
#

shio is saying tempest slash is useless anyways

supple oak
#

it's invig so it's automatically absolute cinema

worldly jasper
#

tempest slash on naoto due to it being weaker than megidola while scaling on her weaker stat and being single-target

dusky thicket
#

LMAO ok bet

true gorge
#

and give tempest slash to yosuke

#

so that he does not share gigantic fist with teddie

worldly jasper
#

but gigantic fist is better

#

lol

dusky thicket
#

yeah that would be a nerf

worldly jasper
#

by a lot

dusky thicket
#

but

worldly jasper
#

unless you buff tempest slash

#

in which case sure

dusky thicket
#

can we just have tempest slash buffed to about the lvl of gigantic fist

#

I'd probably say more damage bc lower crit

true gorge
#

yesss

worldly jasper
#

they're the same skill rank

dusky thicket
#

ik but 10% vs 25% crit

worldly jasper
#

if you give it 150 power then it averages slightly above base game gigan

#

337

dusky thicket
#

think tempest slash needs to do a bit more dmg to compensate

supple oak
#

what am i doing then fellas

worldly jasper
#

if you give it 160 power you get a nice, round 360

#

on average

#

and it has no gimmick unlike vile assault

#

so i think that's fine

true gorge
#

I feel like it should be a bit more consistent in dmg

#

it hits 1-2 no?

worldly jasper
#

yes

true gorge
#

why not make it like in p5?

worldly jasper
#

sqrt 160 x 1.5 (the average hits) is 360

dusky thicket
#

I almost just want to give Naoto heat riser again

worldly jasper
#

nah heat riser's fucking gay bro

dusky thicket
#

it's not a good skill but I'm struggling for skills for B4

true gorge
worldly jasper
#

i mean

#

debilitate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> heat riser

true gorge
#

3-5, more consistent

#

especially for yosuke

worldly jasper
#

that's not more consistent

#

lol

#

that's not how math works

supple oak
#

i love math

true gorge
#

instead of getting 1/2 dmg

#

you would get 3/5 dmg

#

so it is a bit more consistent

#

at the minimum

worldly jasper
#

i mean technically but it also means you high roll less often

true gorge
#

but that's kanji's thing

#

yosuke is all about being mid

#

all about consistency

worldly jasper
#

not really?

#

kanji's multihits are 1-3 and 2-4

#

which are either the same or worse odds than tempest slash

#

and its 1-2 in p3 lol

#

i'd just keep it the same

dusky thicket
#

cool breeze for naoto B4? im so out of ideas here

worldly jasper
#

so the anim don't look weird

true gorge
#

fair

worldly jasper
#

cool breeze works

#

kinda sucks but it works ig

true gorge
#

we are really scraping the bottom of the barrel here lol

dusky thicket
#

yeah literally won't be useful bc Rise exists but idk I'm out of ideas

#

cool breeze is unique enough

worldly jasper
#

victory cry if you aren't a coward.

#

lmao

dusky thicket
#

Spell Master B3 or B4? Cool Breeze takes the other one

worldly jasper
#

brave blade bike 4 and victory mid at bike 5

true gorge
#

there is too many physical skills

#

not enough passives

worldly jasper
#

you could also do victory cry and slot that into b4/5

#

but idk if you think that's overtuned or not

dusky thicket
#

I'm not doing victory cry lol

worldly jasper
#

its basically the same thing!

true gorge
#

Every skill serves a purpose

#

nothing is obsolete

dusky thicket
#

done i am so tired lol

image.png
true gorge
#

fuck it then, cool breeze it is lmao

supple oak
#

we're not giving it a navi skill

dusky thicket
#

not a navi skill

supple oak
true gorge
#

yeah but for bike skills

#

idk

worldly jasper
dusky thicket
#

https://aqiu384.github.io/megaten-fusion-tool/p4g/personas/Pazuzu/fissions
https://aqiu384.github.io/megaten-fusion-tool/p4g/personas/Yatagarasu/fissions
https://aqiu384.github.io/megaten-fusion-tool/p4g/personas/Trumpeter/fissions
https://aqiu384.github.io/megaten-fusion-tool/p4g/personas/Isis/fissions

Pazuzu Fission Recipes - Persona 4 Golden Fusion Calculator

Pazuzu = Ganga x Take-Minakata, Queen Mab x Gdon, High Pixie x Pale Rider, 172 more...

Yatagarasu Fission Recipes - Persona 4 Golden Fusion Calculator

Yatagarasu = Lamia x Samael, Hua Po x Pazuzu, Black Frost x Ares, 210 more...

Trumpeter Fission Recipes - Persona 4 Golden Fusion Calculator

Trumpeter = Matador x White Rider x Daisoujou x Pabilsag x Taotie x Taowu

Isis Fission Recipes - Persona 4 Golden Fusion Calculator

Isis = Alice x Horus, Nebiros x Baal Zebul, Odin x Hell Biker, 87 more...

worldly jasper
#

its obsolete because its SHIT

true gorge
#

perfect for a tier 1 bike ride lol

dusky thicket
#

and i think at lvl 60 you'll probably get invig 2 before S8 invig 3

true gorge
#

why not have invigorate 1 as a phantom skill

#

that you can get by remembering a skill in a bike ride lol

#

that way you can theoretically have all 3

dusky thicket
#

I may as well make it B4 then 😭

#

B4 invig 1 op

true gorge
#

or why not move matarunda/rakunda to t1 bike ride

#

to get rid of cool breeze

worldly jasper
#

idk why you want rid of cool breeze

#

its like not even good just let her have it

true gorge
#

didnt meov say that it was a navi skill?

#

i thought he was against it

worldly jasper
#

its not a navi skill

true gorge
#

if it's fine then ig it's fine

worldly jasper
#

its a base game skill

#

that gives her sp back

#

which sustains her in the same with invigs and spell master do

#

its like

true gorge
#

That's nice

worldly jasper
#

better version of invig

true gorge
#

why not give it as the first bike skill then

dusky thicket
#

it's worse rise

worldly jasper
#

8% sp back after each fight

true gorge
#

i think that can work

dusky thicket
#

but I think it stacks with rise anyways

worldly jasper
#

you could justify making debilitate b3 and cool breeze b2

dusky thicket
#

I agree

true gorge
#

You will most likely fight the reaper late in the game

worldly jasper
#

well tetraja is just

true gorge
#

yeah leave it as it is then

worldly jasper
#

a not very good skill

#

so it should be the first one

#

lmao

true gorge
#

Tetraja
Debilitate
Cool Breeze
????
Brave Blade

worldly jasper
#

spell master

#

give her all the shit sp sustain skills !

true gorge
#

right...

dusky thicket
#

Naoto will never run out of SP

true gorge
#

i never had an issue wit hSP

dusky thicket
#

she will be a menace in hollow forest

worldly jasper
#

i mean hey, at least she's good at SOMETHING now amirite lads

true gorge
#

idk naoto was awesome

worldly jasper
#

i mean

#

in base game i do think hes more useful than yukiko

#

and about as useful as yosuke

true gorge
#

same with best bro yosuke

#

it's all about the presence

#

like piccolo

#

looks cool af but gets 1 shotted by every enemy ever

dusky thicket
#

Naoto is not an aura farmer

#

not like piccolo

true gorge
#

yosuke is, naoto is not lol

#

i mean he is almost dead and he just vibes with his music

#

while on low hp

dusky thicket
#

Yosuke is the definition of NOT an aura farmer bro drives his bike into a trash can TWICE

worldly jasper
#

yosuke isn't the frail one tho

#

yukiko is the character with bad defensive stats lol

true gorge
#

aura farming is such a funny concept lol

worldly jasper
#

i think naoto does count as an aura farmer

true gorge
#

it is

worldly jasper
#

in battle

true gorge
#

hahahahaha

#

i can't man

#

But idk naoto tries her best and is competent most of the time

#

Junpei is an aura farmer, but the guy actually delivers

dusky thicket
#

you know who is an aura farmer

#

reload akihiko

true gorge
#

naahhhhh

#

oh wait

#

early on maybe

#

wait

#

what about ken

#

i think ken has to be the top aura farmer

#

i still like using him a lot tho, that poor guy went through a lot, and he is ultra solid for pretty much the whole game

worldly jasper
#

Junpei's not an aura farmer tho i reject that

true gorge
worldly jasper
#

He's like purposefully lame

#

at least in og p3

true gorge
#

Yeah you are right

worldly jasper
#

bro doesn't even hold his sword right

true gorge
#

he is endearing

worldly jasper
#

like he thinks he's aura farming but he's not aura farming

#

shinjiro? that mf aurafarming

true gorge
#

but also the fact that he is not aura farming

worldly jasper
#

the fucking head tilt shinji does when he summons his persona dude

#

actual aura MERCHANT

dusky thicket
#

so meovv recommended moving boost and maragion down on yukiko. should I also move those skills down on yosuke?

worldly jasper
#

post the levels

#

i am the great determiner

dusky thicket
#

magarula 40, boost 44

#

maragion 40, boost 38

true gorge
#

move it relative to yukiko

#

increase magarula by 1 level or 2

worldly jasper
#

i think both getting maha-rao at the same level is weird

true gorge
#

yeah

dusky thicket
#

it's 39 vs 40 stock

worldly jasper
#

yosuke boost should be later than yukiko

#

but probs earlier than fucking 44 lol

dusky thicket
#

so it's barely any different lol lmao

worldly jasper
#

like

#

akihiko gets elec boost at like 37

dusky thicket
#

can i move wind break up to compensate, to fill in that spot?

dusky thicket
#

the good one or reload

worldly jasper
#

good one

#

kiwamihiko gets it earlier at 32

#

i think like

true gorge
#

how about this?

dusky thicket
#

oh i forgot about tempest slash

#

and vorpal still needs nerfed or agneyastra needs buffed

worldly jasper
#

yukiko fire boosta should be like 35 or smth

dusky thicket
#

and their magic?

worldly jasper
#

maharagion at 38-40 works

#

goatsuke should get boost later but mahagarura around the same time

true gorge
#

nerf vorpal blade a bit

worldly jasper
#

nah vorpal blade is fine

#

buff other phys

true gorge
#

average damage of vorpal blade should be a bit lower than agneyastra imo

dusky thicket
#

magarula 40, boost 44
maragion 40, boost 35

#

better?

worldly jasper
#

vorpal blade is worse than megidolaon its not overpowered at all

worldly jasper
#

goatsuke's magic struggling a lil is fine because he has phys to cover his ass

true gorge
#

can't you move maragion/garula apart a bit

dusky thicket
#

power slash 34 to tempest slash 57 is rough lol

#

but he has magic

#

and AOE phys

worldly jasper
#

i think power slash needs buffed

#

130 is rly bad lol

#

granted his st fucking mogs his ma

#

but still

true gorge
#

This is how i did my progression if it's of any help

dusky thicket
dusky thicket
#

wish there was something else there

#

but idt there is rn

worldly jasper
#

fatal end in p3 is obtained around the same level but has 220 power

true gorge
#

there isn't

#

tempest slash is as good as it gets

dusky thicket
#

fatal end rn is 125 lol

true gorge
#

Fatal end is horrible

dusky thicket
#

power slash is 120

#

a bit rough

true gorge
#

Buff it a bit

#

it's kanji's consistent skill

dusky thicket
#
  • buff power slash and fatal end
  • buff agneyastra

anything else?

true gorge
#

tempest slash

#

put it on pair with gigantic fist

worldly jasper
#

buff gigan fist back to its base game stats

#

buff vile assault back to its base game stats

#

idk if meovv will agree but like these are my suggestions lol

true gorge
#

yosuke has always had high crit

worldly jasper
#

fucking 25% crit

#

untrue really

true gorge
#

well, higher than average ig

worldly jasper
#

he has "high crit" because every phys skill in p4 has high crit

dusky thicket
#

only on one (1) skill

worldly jasper
#

but his lu is fucking terrible

dusky thicket
#

tbf 25 is kinda high

#

true LMAO

worldly jasper
#

average crit in p4 is 20%

#

most skills have either 20% or 5%

true gorge
#

i mean it will not outclass chie

#

but don't we want him to get better?

worldly jasper
#

mighty swing's also like

#

still shit right

dusky thicket
#

@supple oak

  • buff power slash and fatal end as they underperform at mid lvl 30s
  • buff agneyastra to be better than vorpal blade
  • change something like aeon rain/arrow rain to be more on par with blight?
  • buff gigantic fist back to base game stats
  • buff vile assault back to base game stats

(those last two are shio's suggestions)

true gorge
#

i buffed from 135 to 190

worldly jasper
#

honestly

#

i think that's fine enough then

#

even if its crit rate feels weird

true gorge
#

it is also more accurate

#

than pwoer slash

#

so even if the dmg jump is not a lot

#

you get good crit/dmg

#

and accuracy

worldly jasper
#

its a decent jump

#

i'd prefer higher but like

true gorge
#

basically removes akihiko syndrome

worldly jasper
#

can't rly get that without a full overhaul

true gorge
#

and tempest slash

#

why not?

#

oh right, you guys added a lot of ailment stuff

#

i just kept him like akihiko lol

#

in all honesty makajam and tentarafoo are all he needs

#

with the ailment boost passive

worldly jasper
#

i think big man goatsuke deserves his aoe phys

#

even if ailment phys wouldn't be what i'd pick lol

#

i do think its an improvement

true gorge
#

I think

#

mind slice early on

#

and blight later on

#

then he just stays with that

worldly jasper
#

base game chie ass progression

#

where her only aoe phys is rampage and agneyastra

true gorge
#

virus wave is redundant

worldly jasper
#

the other two don't count cus they're downgrades

true gorge
#

just make him go from mind slice to blight later on

worldly jasper
#

is virus wave the same power as mind slice

true gorge
#

because virus wave is just

#

yeah

#

90 for virus wave

worldly jasper
#

oh its very slightly stronger

#

115 in le mod

true gorge
#

and like 60...? or 90

#

20^1/2 dmg increase is like nothing

worldly jasper
#

not a good upgrade but technically is one lol

true gorge
#

so that helps remove the bloat from his kit since he gets a lot of skills that don't really help him in the great scheme of things, i think

#

Also

#

is there a limit to how many skills party members can get?

#

you don't want to run into the issue of adding too many skills

#

and hitting the 32 skill limit

#

not sure if bike rides add ot that limit

supple oak
#

bike and sl is a different table entirely

#

limit is 32 but doing that is romhacky

worldly jasper
#

yeah don't overbloat skill sets imo

true gorge
#

so they wont conflict?

#

I noticed that in p4g

#

party members dont get a lot of skills

#

so I wonder if it's because of this 32 skill limit

supple oak
#

no just

true gorge
#

For example

supple oak
#

having too much shit is just bad design

#

you can have 32 per

true gorge
#

18 (base yosuke) + 10 = 28

#

that leaves only 4 new skills to be added

#

before you reach the 32 skill slots

dusky thicket
#

technically 6, not 10

#

unless you added more

true gorge
#

there are 11

#

my bad

#

so 33....?

#

idk

#

maybe it's not an issue then

true gorge
#

in the vanilla game

dusky thicket
#

well it doesnt count with bike/slink

true gorge
#

We are good then

dusky thicket
#

i think the 32 skill limit is for the persona learning skills

#

s.link and bike wouldnt count

true gorge
#

nice!

dusky thicket
#

I've made adjustments based on everyone's feedback. the only piece of feedback I did not address was Arms Master on Kanji

image.png
#

this mainly is, I'm not sure what to put on Kanji besides more AOE phys

#

which I do not tihnk would be good haha

supple oak
true gorge
#

ik it's dumb

supple oak
#

actually nvm

#

gigantic and vile are fine on ECS

#

with revert

true gorge
#

This is how I did all of mine after making several revisions

image.png
dusky thicket
supple oak
#

who had rain?

true gorge
#

no one, i think

#

in vanilla at least

dusky thicket
#

naoto had myriad arrows B4 so actually i think i gave you the wrong one

#

so hmm

#

myriad arrows is the same rank as blight

supple oak
#

blight on yosuke is an ailment so i guess it just makes sense if there's no panic phys at higher levels

#

myriad outdamages blight

#

considerably

dusky thicket
#

yeah the only other thing I can think of is like replace Blight on Naoto with myriad and nerf it down a bit

#

but iirc one of your equips gives naoto an ailment booster?

supple oak
#

uh no

#

magatsu kiba is all ailments (high)

#

not ailment boost

#

normal attacks trigger any ailment with a high chance

dusky thicket
#

oh i see

#

so what if you nerf myriad arrows down to the ECS of blight

#

and then I can give that to Naoto

#

yosuke gets his niche of ailment phys

#

naoto gets myriad arrows back

dusky thicket
true gorge
#

Myriad arrows is kind of a high tier skill

dusky thicket
#

same rank as blight

#

it's fine

true gorge
#

same as agneyastra too

supple oak
#

list is re-sorted

dusky thicket
#

oh i was just curious about the specific values

#

cool cool

supple oak
#

ah

#

fatal 180

#

power slash 150

dusky thicket
#

vorpal and agneyastra still seem kinda close on average am i missing something?

supple oak
#

agneyastra went 120 to 130 because the third hit is absolutely massive if it lands

true gorge
#

isn't that how it should be tho?

supple oak
#

yeah

dusky thicket
#

gotcha

supple oak
#

its on average better with a chance of being WAY better

true gorge
#

one is consistent, the other one deals massive

#

or nothing

dusky thicket
#

fair enough

true gorge
#

or the same

supple oak
#

yeah thats why i had agneyastra be worse on average

#

because it could hit more

dusky thicket
#

it just seems only 0.2 better haha

supple oak
#

but if you think it should just always be better

#

ig

#

on average

true gorge
#

a little bit

dusky thicket
#

i feel like it should be for chie at least

true gorge
#

because you are taking a risk

dusky thicket
#

well also

true gorge
#

but nothing major

dusky thicket
#

should agneyastra's rank be 8 instead of 7

true gorge
#

definitely

supple oak
#

that brings us back to the issue of not being able to change ranks?

true gorge
#

it should be on par with akasha arts

dusky thicket
#

oh you can't?

supple oak
#

you probably can

true gorge
#

but then again

supple oak
#

i have no clue

true gorge
#

the skill mutation for you guys

dusky thicket
#

weird

true gorge
#

have it has the highest tier skill

#

so that's the only thing that really matters

dusky thicket
#

i dont think this should be a big deal

true gorge
#

Btw

#

I'm so glad you guys changed the spell progression

supple oak
#

i had to argue in favor of it

true gorge
#

from zio/zionga instead of zio/mazio

dusky thicket
true gorge
#

that shit suckeeeed

dusky thicket
supple oak
#

its a massive nerf

true gorge
#

nooo

#

it should be strong

#

an upgrade from deathbound

#

at the very least

#

blight is an ailment skill after all

#

so it should be naturally weaker

dusky thicket
#

so blight is 18.97 with 30% poison, myriad arrows is 21.17

#

is that fine

supple oak
#

the ailment is inflating its ecs a bit actually

dusky thicket
#

gotcha

#

giving myriad arrows to naoto instead of blight seems like a net buff haha

true gorge
#

lesgoo

dusky thicket
#

im a little uneasy about it tbh

true gorge
#

and since we got rid of tempest slash

#

now she is the multi hit specialist lol

dusky thicket
#

she already has buffed deathbound and megidola

supple oak
#

check it again

true gorge
#

so you know how yosuke is kind of mid at single target phys
naoto is mid at multi target phys

dusky thicket
#

check what again?

supple oak
#

oh jeez

#

myriad arrows

#

it got fucked

#

lmao

dusky thicket
#

ow lol maybe thats a little low

supple oak
#

now?

dusky thicket
#

can you aim for like.... 20 mid power?

#

i think that is workable

supple oak
#

let me lower the cost.. lmao

dusky thicket
#

oh wow 37% lmao

supple oak
#

it was expensive because of how good it was

#

yeah

dusky thicket
#

yeah sounds good

#

akasha arts exists as an alternative imo

#

for player

supple oak
#

28%

#

maybe

true gorge
#

that's a lot of variability

#

1-3

#

might actually be worse than deathbound

supple oak
#

no?

dusky thicket
#

any final comments?

image.png
true gorge
#

especially since aeon rain does the same thing

supple oak
#

30% chance to do less damage is not "worse" bro lol

#

especially when there's also an equal chance of doing insane damage

#

and it usually trends higher

dusky thicket
#

if no one else has any final comments I will try to figure out how to get this ingame

worldly jasper
true gorge
#

like edit the tables?

supple oak
#

they're fine on ECS after your suggestion

worldly jasper
#

oh

dusky thicket
worldly jasper
#

i thoght you meant like

supple oak
worldly jasper
#

reverting to modified

supple oak
#

nah your suggestion fits the rank scheme perfectly

worldly jasper
#

gomen

#

im like half asleep

supple oak
#

idk why i nerfed it so hard

worldly jasper
#

that's good

#

check out torrent shot and kill rush too

true gorge
# dusky thicket yeah

if you need help, i already have the directory set up, all you would have to do is edit the skills

worldly jasper
#

those seem fine even after nerf but like

supple oak
true gorge
#

I tested mine in game and it works

worldly jasper
#

i'd check just to be sure

supple oak
#

there's 3 tables to edit

#

bike and sl is easy

#

party member is tedious as fuck

worldly jasper
supple oak
#

but also easy

dusky thicket
#

yeah I'm gonna do those first

true gorge
#

if you guys want

supple oak
#

its just copypasting

dusky thicket
supple oak
#

lol

true gorge
#

are you also editing the

#

descriptions

#

using rudiger's

#

as base

supple oak
#

i'm waiting on him to speak about it

true gorge
#

got you

worldly jasper
true gorge
#

then congratulations guys

#

idk if i helped at all but I'm glad i was part of this discussion at least lol

supple oak
true gorge
#

had a lot of fun lol

true gorge
supple oak
#

nah

#

like July probably

dusky thicket
#

manifesting against that so i can finish p4 fog restoration sooner