Help understanding how ENV Objects are configured in EVTs | Persona Modding | Page 2

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:14 PM

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from both template in 010, they have Diffuse come before ambient

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:14 PM

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well it's incorrect then adachi_true

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:15 PM

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same for CM too?

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so it should be ambient first, then diffuse

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:15 PM

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yes

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struct gfdEnvironmentLight_tag
{
  gfdBool active;
  gfdLightType type;
  gfdRGBAFloat ambient;
  gfdRGBAFloat diffuse;
  gfdRGBAFloat specular;
  gfdLightAttenuation attenuation;
  __attribute__((aligned(16))) VmathPoint3 position;
  VmathVector3 direction;
};

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:17 PM

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huh. so I wonder why both templates have got it the wrong way round :/

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so i ramped up the values for the fields for the CM section, so if I understand correctly: the red one is AMbient Red, and the green one is diffuse Green

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:19 PM

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ok so

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for characters diffuse color mainly controls rim light

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and ambient color tints the whole model

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:20 PM

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which is the opposite to what the field name shows above, and therefore its the wrong way round in the template (y)

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:20 PM

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so ambient first, diffuse second, same as everywhere else adachi_true

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:20 PM

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left whale ```cpp struct gfdEnvironmentLight_tag { gfdBool active; gfdLightType type; ...

also lol

struct gfdLightAttenuation_tag
{
  gfdFloat kC;
  gfdFloat kL;
  gfdFloat kQ;
  gfdFloat dS;
  gfdFloat dE;
  gfdFloat theta;
  gfdFloat phi;
};

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:21 PM

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so back to the shadow then, they now match ocrrectrly, alhtough I couldn't get the bias to work if that's the case

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:21 PM

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what values did you try

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:22 PM

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so that's Field294

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bear with

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:22 PM

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i dont have the template idk what it is 💀

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maybe you tried editing cascades split ratio

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:22 PM

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{0.32: 1229, 0.15: 337, 0.001: 316, 0.02: 78, 0.05: 30}

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so i limited it to between 0 and 0.32

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since that's whats used in the ENV files across the game

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might have been better to find a different map

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:23 PM

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left whale maybe you tried editing cascades split ratio

(to simplify, most games actually calculate multiple cast shadows, and blend between them based on distance to camera, so that shadows that are closer to camera are higher resolution/sharper, and ones that are far away are lower resolution)

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p5/r uses 3 cascades

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:24 PM

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(the reason I assumed it's bias is it comes after the path range)

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(in the translated UI i mean)

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:26 PM

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you can try editing it on futaba palace entrance

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:27 PM

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f155_001?

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okey dokey will try that now

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:30 PM

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ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:33 PM

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left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:34 PM

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this spot

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ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:36 PM

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left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:36 PM

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this area looks so funny without cast shadows

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:36 PM

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thats with a value of 3

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will set it to 0 nw and see

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Value of -3

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i dont see a difference ther, so no idea what that field is doing 😄

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:43 PM

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not bias then!

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:44 PM

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so epsilon maybe?

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:44 PM

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could be actually

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ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 5:49 PM

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I might come back to it :/:

Field 2A0 it quite subtle as well, but only have 2 values (value of 6 and value of 14 - so maybe some kind of flag - most maps havea value of 6)

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 5:53 PM

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flags are in the struct

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 6:37 PM

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there are also a bunch of booleans coming up that I can see, which also might be flags

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 7:02 PM

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also, juust wanted to say thanks @left whale, it's been really helpful thus far.

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 7:03 PM

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ofc ofc, np hee_approves

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 7:04 PM

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@pliant mural and to think this all started off because ryuji couldnt afford shoes 😄

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 7:30 PM

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shadows

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 7:36 PM

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Increasing the shadow's far clip distance in any game causes shadows to become lower res. That's because the shadow map is just a texture with a limited resolution, so when it has to cover a larger area, there's less details it can fit.

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 7:39 PM

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so this is labelled near clip, so it would be the shadows would be rendered between two clip panes right (near and far)? so by increasing the near clip, that would decrease the range? or have I messed that up

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 7:39 PM

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i actually have no clue how it works in p5r adachi_true

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the clip points

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 7:40 PM

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Here is the "near clip" with different values

left whale Jun 12, 2024, 7:42 PM

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yeah that looks about right i think

nocturne haven Jun 12, 2024, 7:56 PM

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left whale this area looks so funny without cast shadows

It looks like it walked out of Deviantart (not all fields are released equally, quality wise...)
I don't understand most of this, but it's fascinating to see how much work is put into giving the fields the lights, shadows, etc it has in the end product

nocturne haven Jun 12, 2024, 8:03 PM

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nocturne haven It looks like it walked out of Deviantart (not all fields are released equally, ...

this is from the dancing game but yeah

ornate heron Jun 12, 2024, 8:24 PM

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So altering the Field Shadow Darkness level is interesting. Anyone want to take a guess what value I put in to get this

ornate heron Jun 13, 2024, 4:45 PM

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it's -2, which suggest this is more likely to be Field Shadow LIghtness

ornate heron Jun 14, 2024, 7:46 PM

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of the next few flag fields, the first three, Field2AC, 2AD, and 2AE, I can't see nay visible differences

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however!

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The Flag at Field 2AF (labelled as 2AC[3]) does do something (and I suspected it might, as it was the only one that had a value of True across all the ENVs).

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ornate heron Jun 14, 2024, 8:19 PM

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(Look at the wall)

nocturne haven Jun 14, 2024, 10:48 PM

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I don't see much of a dif between 1 and 0 🤷‍♀️
My gut it telling me there is, but it's so subtle it's hard to see

ornate heron Jun 15, 2024, 1:16 AM

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side by side, can you see the fence?

wind niche Jun 15, 2024, 1:21 AM

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yea

nocturne haven Jun 15, 2024, 1:36 AM

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What do you mean? The fence is p clear in both pics

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The left is probably a bit darker
If you look at the concrete below it

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ornate heron Jun 15, 2024, 2:18 AM

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It’s sharper,in one

pliant mural Jun 15, 2024, 2:26 AM

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Oooh. Goddamn, this is the toughest game of Spot The Difference I've ever played....

nocturne haven Jun 15, 2024, 2:42 AM

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Probably why it looked darker to me

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When it's blurred, there'd have to be less of the dark gray, giving off a lighter look

left whale Jun 15, 2024, 7:51 AM

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mipmap levels?

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could be useful for a performance mod maybe, though the most demanding part is not textures but rendering a lot of geometry

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 2:18 PM

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The next few fields are FieldShadowColour, and they work like the other colour fields (thouhgh again the alpha aeppears to do nothing), and negative values are (subtractive?)

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Then the colour correction section: labelled differently in each of the templates, but probably more correct in the one using CMY. These again work as you'd expect, although they cap out at -1 and +1 (cyan 10 is the same as cyan 1)

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The fields afterwards are labelled dodge and burn. And the values used in the game are from 0 to ~0.6.
However 1.0 seems to be the maximum positive value they can take, after that they break. But weridly, they can go beyond -1 and work fine.

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Next up is labelled LightMapR, LightMapG, LightMapB, LightMapA and I cannot see what these values do (if they're even used). All 4 fields have a value of either 0 or 0.2

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left whale Jun 20, 2024, 2:30 PM

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this is the only reference related to lightmap i saw in the shader

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and it's commented out

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it's not rgba though

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atestref is the clipping point for materials that use alpha clip/cutout mode (easiest example is leaves on trees and bushes)

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:01 PM

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hmm weird one.

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the next few field are labelled outline.
EnableOutline must be set to 1, 0 causes a crash

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OutineRange has 8 distinct values across the ENVs (and they vary from 0 to 9000), but I cannot see what they do

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left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:03 PM

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crash is probably due to missing shaders

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:03 PM

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probably

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OutlineWidth is the next field and it only has 1 value across every ENV (value of 1.01)

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tried changing it but couldn't see any difference

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:05 PM

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range

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:06 PM

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so is that deffo a difference, rather than the movementof the model?

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:06 PM

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it's for thin character outlines that are added as a post-process effect

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:06 PM

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its so subtle!

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:07 PM

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yeah it depends on resolution

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if you set resolution scale to 0.5 and then check persona models in your stock, the outlines will be thicc af

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:08 PM

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left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:08 PM

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rpcs3 screenshot

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(it doesnt scale outlines with resolution increase)

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:08 PM

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ah gotcha

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:08 PM

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so you can see that they're thicc here

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:09 PM

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ah let me load the outline width in a low res screen then (y)

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:12 PM

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there should also be outline brightness somewhere

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:12 PM

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yes that one is the next field

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:12 PM

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it's easier to see them if you set it to 0

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:13 PM

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and that one I can definitely see the difference between the two values

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:13 PM

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it's easier to see them on brighter fields 😔

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(so futaba entrance again)

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:13 PM

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mostly on the straps

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:13 PM

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left whale (so futaba entrance again)

lol phrasing

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:14 PM

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futaba palace entrance jacksexohd

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:14 PM

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so for outline width, you saying set the brightnesss to 0 and ten crank up the width on the futaba palace map?

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:15 PM

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sure

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:16 PM

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ornate heron mostly on the straps

because of the way these models are set up there's always an outline on characters faces

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:17 PM

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yep, I can definitely see that

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which is good, because initially i was sceptical

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giant ryuji for some reason

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oh he's on stairs :p

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so i set the outline width to 5

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is that it on the face?

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:19 PM

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yeah but i have no clue if it's just how it always looks on lower resolution or if that's because of the edit

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:19 PM

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i'll reset it to 0

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*1.01

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:20 PM

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it's clearly not width in pixels though

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odd

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:22 PM

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thats 1.01

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:22 PM

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there's a difference for sure

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actually no joker just wasnt as close to the camera in the previous screenshot

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:23 PM

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that's 0

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:27 PM

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yeah no it looks the same width to me

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:27 PM

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yeah i was gonna say I whacked into PPt and I cant see a difference either

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anything in the shader for it (fingers crossed :p)

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:31 PM

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no!!!!!!!!

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we also don't have the source for outline shader

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so all i can give is this

📎 outline.fp.asm

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oh discord doesnt even embed it lmao

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:36 PM

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oh god assembly!

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 3:36 PM

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jumpscare

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this might be useful though, idk

cbuffer GFD_PSCONST_OUTLINE
{
    float fadeRange;        // Offset: 0 Size: 4
    float brightness;       // Offset: 4 Size: 4
    float projectionZ;      // Offset: 8 Size: 4
    float projectionW;      // Offset: 12 Size: 4
    float2 outlineShift;    // Offset: 16 Size: 8
}```

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and this is what chatgpt spitted out when i asked it to generate a shader based on the assembly

📎 outline.fp.hlsl

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though it doesnt look even remotely similar

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 3:46 PM

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great minds lol

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 4:10 PM

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For the final 3 fields in this section:

Field27F, Field284, and RefelctionHeight:

Field27F can be either 0 or 100
Fied284 can be either 0 or 150
The two fields are either 0 0, or 100 150
When the two fields are 0, Reflection Height is also 0
When the two fields are 100 150, ReflectionHeight ranges from -2000 to 4800

I'm not sure what type of reflection it relates to, the maps for the max value are things like Shido's Palace - Pool Deck so I wondered if the height was because hat has two levels (you go down stairs to get to the pool I think)

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 4:16 PM

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planar reflection

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these

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(extracted from this scene with renderdoc)

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but yeah i guess the height is literal height of the reflection plane

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whats field id for shido pool

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 4:28 PM

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159_010

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ENV file is 2159_010_000

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 4:33 PM

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renderdoc is refusing to work 💀

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oh it doesnt even have any reflections here

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i cant find the draw call with reflections 💀
would be easier on a field with real reflections

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 7:07 PM

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Try Shidos palace entrance. That’s also got a large value

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 7:07 PM

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height value doesnt mean anything

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 7:07 PM

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Also which joker costume is that?

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 7:07 PM

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gekkoukan high

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 7:07 PM

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Ah interesting,

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So maybe it’s not actually used?

left whale Jun 20, 2024, 7:08 PM

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what

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that's just the height of the reflection plane

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maybe this will help

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it is used, just on fields with real reflections

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oh wait i just remembered mod menu can force weather

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i dont see anything related to height specifically because it's handled by exe i guess (telling the shaders where and what and how to draw)

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this is in material i think?

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not env

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 10:57 PM

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Ah, I hadn’t through about rain, I had wondered if it was for reflective objects like shop windows.

ornate heron Jun 20, 2024, 11:34 PM

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Do you reckon the values before (the 100 and 150) values are flags/switches, or related the actual reflection properties itself?

left whale Jun 21, 2024, 12:38 AM

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idk adachi_true

nocturne haven Jun 21, 2024, 7:06 PM

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So I tried using the RGB values in the CSV sheet by using the hex code to find the HSV numbers. And this is what I got. Please do note, however, that I am a complete noob. I'm positive this can be recreated much better by somebody far more experienced than myself. I lowered the rim light so it wasn't visible in the night time pictures, as I plan to experiment with said rim light using the XYZ coordinates found in the CSV sheet

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Filmic

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Standard

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The hex code of the field's RGB numbers

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the hex code of the character's RGB numbers within the field

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rim light version coming soon, if I can pull it off...
seeing as the entries say 'unsure'

nocturne haven Jun 21, 2024, 7:32 PM

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No coordinates on the park just yet, but here is what Maruki looks like with the XYZ coordinates on the spreadsheet. This is filmic

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In standard

nocturne haven Jun 21, 2024, 7:57 PM

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EDIT: I totally overlooked the emissive alpha, so that'll be adjusted

nocturne haven Jun 21, 2024, 8:51 PM

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so yeah....here we go
Note that the emissive alpha on the character model could be wrong, as @ornate heron was not sure whether the one I took the emissive alpha number from actually belonged to the character emissive alpha.
The 'toonLightColor Alpha' is turned down to 0 as well, but overall it seems that field has an emissive alpha of 0 while the emissive alpha of the character model is still unsure/unconfirmed.
Unfortunately turning down both the emissive alpha and toonLightColor Alpha wiped out the rimlight.
But, as I said at the beginning, i am only a noob. There are likely things I'm getting wrong that aren't obvious to me, due to my inexperience.

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https://www.mediafire.com/file/r35nyhju7lnqlsa/lighting+test.zip/file

there are a few in this folder, but 'Inokashira Park (5)' is the final result

MediaFire

lighting test

ornate heron Jun 21, 2024, 9:26 PM

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left whale

what version of MM are you ising (and did you build from src)?

left whale Jun 21, 2024, 9:36 PM

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some dusty ass old ps4 version 💀

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i dont even remember

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i just manually extracted files from whatever release was latest at the time of pc release and then never updated it

ornate heron Jun 21, 2024, 9:45 PM

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ah fair enough

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also yeah the ENV ReflectionHeight values I got working now, with the rain

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but those two fields before hand don't seem to affect the reflections as far as I can tell

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does the water seciton on the beta tool give any hints?

left whale Jun 21, 2024, 10:07 PM

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💀

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(it's just height and a toggle to display the reflection on the screen for debugging)

ornate heron Jun 24, 2024, 7:54 PM

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cant tell if the distortion changes because of the timing or the value

left whale Jun 24, 2024, 8:03 PM

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(distortion values are specified by the material, and I don't think anything from env modifies them)

ornate heron Jun 24, 2024, 8:09 PM

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then its probably just a timing issue with those screenshots - in which case no idea what those fields do (of the major areas in the game, shinjuku has it set to 0, and the fishing pond)

left whale Jun 24, 2024, 8:12 PM

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i assume the only reflection related value in env is the reflection plane height

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the only thing left now is physics i think

ornate heron Jun 24, 2024, 8:13 PM

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yeah,perhaps the fact those fields seem to be set when reflectionheight is some leftover

left whale Jun 24, 2024, 8:15 PM

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left whale the only thing left now is physics i think

well you found everything else from this by now, i think

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actually

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wtf is dirty

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it appears a lot in beta symbols, but i've never seen it in shaders

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oh maybe it's some term that's used for something else and not literal dirty effect

ornate heron Jun 24, 2024, 8:19 PM

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well the next section is the physics section

left whale Jun 24, 2024, 8:19 PM

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oh yeah it is, nvm https://wiki.c2.com/?DirtyRectangles

ornate heron Jun 24, 2024, 8:20 PM

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but I gravity is constant at -9.81

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(just like in real life!)

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(ish)

left whale Jun 24, 2024, 8:26 PM

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this is adachi_true

ornate heron Jun 24, 2024, 8:48 PM

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I'm not sure what it affects tbh. I tried changing the value and didn't see anything obvious

left whale Jun 24, 2024, 8:59 PM

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do physics testing on ties

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joker p2 dlc tie, ryuji phantom thief suit tie

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other physics stuff (like hair) is usually stiff af

ornate heron Jun 24, 2024, 9:08 PM

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genius 🙂

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left is with gravity reverse, right is with normal gravity

left whale Jun 24, 2024, 9:09 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/pooh-soul-left-leave-body-gif-18140969

Tenor

ornate heron Jun 24, 2024, 9:10 PM

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silly old bear

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and that has helped confirm that flag gvalue too

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*flag value

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is just an enable (which was assumed but good to know)

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why ties of all things?!

left whale Jun 24, 2024, 9:13 PM

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because they don't have baked physics for those!

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joker/violet long coats physics are all just pretty animations

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meanwhile small stuff like ties or hair, or p5d dlc scarves uses real time physics

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they used the most basic constraint type ever so real time physics look either too simple (just drag, no bouncing or anything) or too stiff

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idk how to explain physics things properly, ESL moment

ornate heron Jun 24, 2024, 9:17 PM

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no i get it from your explanation

left whale Jun 24, 2024, 9:18 PM

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ok good!!

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default values

有効 (Enabled)
重力 (Gravity): -9.80

有効 (Enabled)
強さ (Strength): -0.050～0.150
周期 (Period): 01.000～03.000
方向 (Direction)
物理オブジェクト表示 (Display physical object) (debug)

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second part is wind

ornate heron Jun 24, 2024, 9:52 PM

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From ENVs:
Gravity: 'num_of_unique_values=2', 'min=-9.807', 'max=-9.8'
EnableWind: num_of_unique_values=2', 'min=0', 'max=1'
WindDirectionX: 'num_of_unique_values=2', 'min=-0.346', 'max=1.0',
WindDirectionY: 'num_of_unique_values=2', 'min=0.0', 'max=0.857',
WindDirectionZ: 'num_of_unique_values=2', 'min=-0.381', 'max=0.0',
WindPowerDatums: 'num_of_unique_values=5', 'min=-0.05', 'max=1.75',
WindPowerRange: 'num_of_unique_values=6', 'min=0.2', 'max=1.65',
WindCycleDatums: 'num_of_unique_values=4', 'min=0.0', 'max=3.96',
WindCycleRange: 'num_of_unique_values=3', 'min=0.98', 'max=3.64',

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so could be likely that WindPowerDatums is the Strength
and Wind Cycle Datums is the Period

ornate heron Jun 26, 2024, 10:07 PM

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is wind likely to be a global thing, or again more likely to be visible with a model that supports it?

left whale Jun 26, 2024, 10:12 PM

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the latter 🙂

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particles react to physics as well btw

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but it's probably still easier to test with the same models

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models themselves have a wind multiplier btw

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which, i don't think ever goes above 1 (and is mostly below it)

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but setting it to 5 or 10 does make it stronger

ornate heron Jun 26, 2024, 10:37 PM

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hmm so would the P2 outfit work again with the tie? (obviously gravity will be set back to normal never fear)

left whale Jun 26, 2024, 10:39 PM

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i don't remember what the wind multiplier is set to there adachi_true

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but probably!!

ornate heron Jun 26, 2024, 10:46 PM

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ta

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 2:04 PM

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just a quick follow up to gravity - it's odd when it is set to positive

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i'm not sure why the tie goes crazy - i was expecting to be pointing straight up! (no jokes please :p)

left whale Jun 27, 2024, 2:14 PM

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erect..

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but anyways it's because there's always an additional dummy bone at the end of every physics bone chain that doesnt ever move

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(probably because of that anyway)

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 2:22 PM

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lol bone

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but ah ok, so that dummy bone doesn't have any properties

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or rather isnt affected by them so it just causes weirdness

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(forogot to mention the you are correct re: the tie working for wind). its quite....amusing :p

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:20 PM

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unsurprisingly the tie can't move because of the model (-1), but the hair does!

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left whale Jun 27, 2024, 3:26 PM

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it's just a unit vector i guess

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same as light direction

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:26 PM

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yup seems to be

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im curious to try out the next two fields (Y and Z) to see how they look

left whale Jun 27, 2024, 3:37 PM

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iirc p5 uses
X - left
Y - up
Z - forward

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im not sure though

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:40 PM

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well for Y (everymap is basically 0)

left whale Jun 27, 2024, 3:42 PM

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makes sense

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:44 PM

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the most annoying this is his character model idle pose, never sotps moving!!!

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but yes there is "wind" "Y"

left whale Jun 27, 2024, 3:46 PM

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bro is restless

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:47 PM

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but the hair pulsing is quite useful

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means i know the wind effect is working

left whale Jun 27, 2024, 3:47 PM

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you can check with sumi's long hair

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:48 PM

#

you mean mary sue(mi) :p

left whale Jun 27, 2024, 3:48 PM

#

you'd need to replace joker though i guess

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:48 PM

#

thats easy

left whale Jun 27, 2024, 3:48 PM

#

actually

#

i wonder if i still have a model for joker that's just fully real time physics

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:49 PM

#

left whale Jun 27, 2024, 3:51 PM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/681270126657798295/1204758615626620928/video_48M.mp4?ex=667ea5e5&is=667d5465&hm=8a39e52f51ab047cc15fbda989de5842c3816953f540883f4e303cc703ac6c0b&

▶ Play video

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/681270126657798295/1204758667396780042/Joker_Physics_Test.GMD?ex=667ea5f1&is=667d5471&hm=25cf260b65cff3268bd6386cae42ac95b8583dbf768c90d85e1457ce63241126&

#

wind multiplier is set to 1 on all bones

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:54 PM

#

do you knw what the wind power level was set to

#

i had to crank it up to see anything

left whale Jun 27, 2024, 3:55 PM

#

on which model

#

unedited joker phantom suit?

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:55 PM

#

hmmm i guess so

#

oh multiplier

#

sorry misread

#

ignore thast last statement

#

i was being dumb

left whale Jun 27, 2024, 3:56 PM

#

0.15 - 0.4

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:56 PM

#

yeah

left whale Jun 27, 2024, 3:56 PM

#

left whale https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/681270126657798295/1204758667396780042/Jo...

https://vxtwitter.com/dniwetamp/status/1755261159379177799

vxTwitter / fixvx

why does this sync up actually 【QRT of DniweTamp (@dniwetamp):】 '@megayike 🤷‍♂️' 💖 16 🔁 5

DniweTamp (@dniwetamp)

why does this sync up actually

【QRT of DniweTamp (@dniwetamp):】
'@megayike 🤷‍♂️'

💖 16 🔁 5

▶ Play video

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 3:57 PM

#

so for the I'm using nowthe windpowerdatums (which i think is the wind strength) I've set to 1.75 just so i can have a strong wind blowing

ornate heron Jun 27, 2024, 11:26 PM

#

Directionality for Wind Labels X, Y, and Z

#

x is the side angle one, y is the hair bounce up and down, and z is the weird left to right one (back facing view)

ornate heron Jun 28, 2024, 4:01 PM

#

left whale it's just a unit vector i guess

-ve just stops it all, so <0, the wind stops

ornate heron Jun 28, 2024, 4:30 PM

#

but!

#

if i set the X Y and Z to 1

#

and set the powerdatum to -1

#

then it does go in the reverse direction

#

ornate heron Jun 28, 2024, 4:54 PM

#

so they both seem to control the magnitude i guess?

#

i set it 100 100 for both

#

and the tie went to the same place

#

then i set the powr to 0.1 the tie went to the same place, but other parts of the model were less affected

#

v weird

#

but yeah

ornate heron Jul 2, 2024, 3:01 PM

#

WindPowerRange also seems to be a power modifier. I'm not sure if its a cental point that grows larger (thus making the wind affect more things), but again, the lower the number, the more damping it seems to do (until 0), and vice versa (till about ~1.75)

#

ornate heron Jul 2, 2024, 3:52 PM

#

WindCycleDatum is the time taken for a cycle (I think in seconds). Setting it < 0 wraps to 0 behaviour, but its quite amusing 😄

ornate heron Jul 2, 2024, 4:19 PM

#

So I think WindCycleDatum is for the cycle for the fast part, and WindCycleRange is the cycle time for the slow part.

When i set windcycle range to 10 and WindowCycleDatum to 1, the initial wind effect takes time to start, and is quite slow, but then in the next part of the cycle, its very fast to blow out and return to nromakl, and then the cycle seems to repeat

ornate heron Jul 2, 2024, 5:28 PM

#

final section is the sky section - whuch looks pretty small

left whale Jul 2, 2024, 7:13 PM

#

proper name would be clear color (as in, what color to use when you're rendering a frame but there's no geometry)

#

you know how in source games if you get out of bounds it gets all trippy and game just doesn't remove stuff from the previous frame

#

clear color is used to prevent that

ornate heron Jul 2, 2024, 8:17 PM

#

yeah, when I go out of bounds i see the colour. I'm assuming the sky dome itself is just a texture that wraps around the map?

left whale Jul 2, 2024, 8:20 PM

#

they're just objects

#

.gmd models

#

ornate heron Jul 2, 2024, 8:33 PM

#

yep makes sense

ornate heron Jul 7, 2024, 4:20 PM

#

all the sky (colour) fields work as expected, except for the alpha

#

Sky Alpha
['num_of_values=1990',
'num_of_unique_values=1',
'min=255',
'max=255',
'value_range=0',
'mean=255',
'stdev=0.0',
'cv=0.0',
'mode=255 (1990 items)',
'raw data rounded to 3dp']

#

like with the other fields labelled alpha doesn't seem to do anything, probably some default field generated from their tooling

#

and therefore that is the end of the ENV file

ornate heron Jul 7, 2024, 5:00 PM

#

i'll go through everything and summarise my findings, and then probably add it to wiki

#

probably be quite useful to try and line it up with the shader stuff too (baby steps tho)

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 3:10 PM

#

just to make sure I am 100% not misrepresenting what's been said

the first picture is ambient lighting, and the second if diffuse?

(this is Red set to 1, and G,B set to 0)

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 3:23 PM

#

i think so yea?

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 3:23 PM

#

those are two different fields I've edited there

#

the first pic is from a field labelled field diffuse lighting, but is actually ambient
the second pic is from a field labelled field Ambient Lighting, but is actually diffuse

#

(so as you said the tempalte needs to swtich the names around)

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 3:25 PM

#

yes

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 3:25 PM

#

(y)

#

oh that's not a thumbs up on discord

#

👍

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 3:25 PM

#

ambient should be first, diffuse should be second

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 4:15 PM

#

oh i meant to ask, is there support for actual Field emissive lighting in the game? In every ENV file, all of the emissive light settings are to 0 for R and G and B? I think i remember you showing me the struct and there was no emissive, but I can't remember if I've made that up

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 4:22 PM

#

left whale ```cpp struct gfdEnvironmentLight_tag { gfdBool active; gfdLightType type; ...

h

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 4:23 PM

#

thanks!

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 4:23 PM

#

im guessing it's just attenuation

#

it being all 0s makes sense because it's a directional light therefore there's no attenuation adachi_true

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 4:23 PM

#

is that the distance the light would travel?

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 4:24 PM

#

ornate heron is that the distance the light would travel?

for point/spot lights, yes

#

directional lights don't use it

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 4:24 PM

#

so if its set to 0 across all the ENVs, what would use it ?

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 4:24 PM

#

see the gfdLightType there?

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 4:25 PM

#

yh

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 4:25 PM

#

ig they wanted to make it possible to use not just directional light

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 4:25 PM

#

im guessing thats controlled outside the ENVs and some other system handles it?

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 4:25 PM

#

well idk adachi_true

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 4:25 PM

#

or it was something never implemented?

#

Atlus Rise_what

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 4:26 PM

#

all i know is that they always use just directional lights in env

#

one for character, one for field

#

that's it

#

adachi_true

#

any additional lights are in fields themselves

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 4:29 PM

#

Naofacepalm ah well, it just confirms my suspicion that most games are held together with plasters and elastic bands haha

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 4:30 PM

#

not in this case

#

it's good to have the same struct for all light source types

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 4:30 PM

#

yes that is true

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 4:31 PM

#

the shader technically supports up to 3 light sources at the same time, so if you use the same struct you can add them in any order

#

though only one directional light is ever used, and they have a separate deferred pass for all point/spot lights and just pass that as a texture

ornate heron Jul 10, 2024, 4:32 PM

#

interesting

#

i never really thought about how complicatged lighting is

left whale Jul 10, 2024, 4:32 PM

#

that's how most games did it i think

#

either full deferred or something similar to this

ornate heron Jul 12, 2024, 4:51 PM

#

looking at that tag - do you happen to know if any Attenuation and position values are set? I'm theorising that at least some of the unknown fields in the section might have been used for that (Field42 for attenutation and Field46, Field4A and Field4E) for position - all of these fields in teh ENv are set to 0, for every ENV butif that's potentially linked to LightType stuff (which they might have decided not to do) it would make some kind of sense

left whale Jul 12, 2024, 4:52 PM

#

they don't matter for directional lights

#

think of it as a sun in the sky

#

no matter how far away it is, you'll see it

ornate heron Jul 12, 2024, 4:53 PM

#

yep

#

its always there

#

so if those fields are set to 0 across the ENV - could they correspond to those fields in the shader - but because this is directional lighting, it owuld have no effect anyway?

left whale Jul 12, 2024, 4:56 PM

#

shader doesnt have position lol

ornate heron Jul 12, 2024, 4:57 PM

#

ah, so whats this attribute in teh struct? attribute_((aligned(16))) VmathPoint3 position;?

#

(sory for the questions, just trying to understand)

left whale Jul 12, 2024, 4:58 PM

#

im guessing the game calculates all important info like for any other regular object

#

in the exe

#

all shader has is this

#

you can just match the names in your notes to beta symbols though

ornate heron Jul 12, 2024, 5:00 PM

#

then god knows that those field is in the ENV are 😛

#

attenuation is an odd one - since that doesn't seem to be labelled in teh template anywhere (same for spot), but could be an unnamed field

left whale Jul 12, 2024, 5:01 PM

#

it's for light objects in gmds

ornate heron Jul 12, 2024, 5:01 PM

#

In the FM section, these are the only unlabelled fields

#

i didn't observe anything when I changed them either

ornate heron Jul 12, 2024, 6:39 PM

#

First section done. Question about the lighting, I'm not sure the labels are correct, because I cant visualise where the light source is in my mind (in order to generat the shadoows),

📎 ENV_Summary.pdf

ornate heron Jul 15, 2024, 3:13 PM

#

Dniwe - there's one field in the character model section that has a lot of values across ENVs, but I can't see any effect - was wondering if there was something on the beta screens that might help or any ideas -
It seems to range from ~14.0 to 75 and the majority of ENVs have it set to 50 - any thoughts?

left whale Jul 15, 2024, 4:00 PM

#

can you give some specific example

#

with field id

#

preferably metaverse

#

though any would work adachi_true

#

#

#

you sure it's not from camera? default FOV value is 50

#

14 is very close wow

#

the slider resets back to 50 after you let go btw 💀

ornate heron Jul 15, 2024, 5:22 PM

#

It's just labelled on teh template as Field188, but its around the character model light X Y Z labels, and just before the near and far clip settings

#

futaba palace entrace ok?

#

so field 155_001 has a value of 60

#

------ Field188 ------
['num_of_values=1990',
'num_of_unique_values=69',
'min=14.0',
'max=75.0',
'value_range=61.0',
'mean=50.546',
'stdev=7.198',
'cv=14.24',
'mode=50.0 (908 items)',
'raw data rounded to 3dp']

left whale Jul 15, 2024, 6:10 PM

#

i was away for a bit, gomen

#

yeah it's fov

#

should be in the camera section instead

left whale Jul 15, 2024, 6:12 PM

#

left whale the slider resets back to 50 after you let go btw 💀

on this field slider resets back to 60 adachi_true

ornate heron Jul 15, 2024, 7:32 PM

#

saywut!?

#

im not seeing any difference when changing it

#

which I noted before actually checking my notes

#

f153_008 is another map with a low value (value of 35)

#

I wonder if its something baked in the field somewhere?

ornate heron Jul 15, 2024, 9:46 PM

#

(or handled by the exe)

left whale Jul 16, 2024, 6:02 AM

#

it could also just be broken in multiplatform version 💀

#

like texture filtering always being set to linear (on ps3 you could set it to nearest in material, useful for minecraft imports)

left whale Jul 16, 2024, 6:08 AM

#

ornate heron f153_008 is another map with a low value (value of 35)

guess it's different in royal

ornate heron Jul 16, 2024, 12:37 PM

#

I’ll label the field in my notes but with a note that not seeing any effect. Might check the maruki palace map see if they are set to something

ornate heron Jul 16, 2024, 3:50 PM

#

Maruki maps all set to 60 - so it is what it is

ornate heron Jul 16, 2024, 5:13 PM

#

Updated to Character Model Section. When double checking things, i did note that the near clip plane seems to have some kind of minimum distance, since even when setting it to 10 or 20, things were rendering behind the camera. Although I will say, i do wonder what "units" are being used#

📎 ENV_Summary_0.2.pdf

left whale Jul 16, 2024, 5:37 PM

#

meters

#

well

#

the game uses meters for other stuff

ornate heron Jul 16, 2024, 5:53 PM

#

hmm metres would make sense

left whale Jul 16, 2024, 5:59 PM

#

this in blender actually does match up with the game so

#

adachi_true

ornate heron Jul 16, 2024, 6:04 PM

#

adachi_true

ornate heron Jul 18, 2024, 12:54 PM

#

In the fog section, is there a) a flag/switch to set fog on off/visible/invisible, and then an alpha channel or opacity channel?

#

Field195 (which comes after the enable flag) seems to have some secondary control behaviour on Fog

left whale Jul 18, 2024, 1:10 PM

#

ornate heron Jul 18, 2024, 1:31 PM

#

interesting - what are the option types where it says Linear? (and i tried to translate that first checkbox but it didn't make any sense to me)

left whale Jul 18, 2024, 1:36 PM

#

exponential and exponential2

#

exponential2 is VERY close to player/camera

ornate heron Jul 18, 2024, 1:37 PM

#

hmmmmmm

ornate heron Jul 18, 2024, 1:57 PM

#

so from the looks of it, the Disable Fog is actually the use near and far plane toggle there

#

which makes me wonder if Field195 and 196 are the implementations of the fog type

#

(and Field195 ignores/not affected by Field196) - maybe?

#

oh ffs the descritions didnt save! pic 1 is Fog on, Field195 off, Field196off, pic 2 is Field195On, Pic 3 is Field196On

ornate heron Jul 23, 2024, 2:50 PM

#

Can someone explain (in simple terms) what a ToneMap is and what Bloom is? The field is labelled differently depending on the template - but I'm not sure I understand what is happening when it's enabled

left whale Jul 23, 2024, 3:15 PM

#

tonemap = when image go bright, make image not bright
bloom = when some parts of image are bright (above threshold), make those parts bleed around the edges

ornate heron Jul 23, 2024, 3:22 PM

#

so in these two images, when its 0 that weird effect around the light sources, and when its 1, you don't

#

so reading your definition, would that be bloom?

#

since when its disabled, the light is bright, and whens its enabled, the bloom effect applies?

#

(sorry realised it was a crappy picture)

#

(left is disabled, right is enabled)

left whale Jul 23, 2024, 3:31 PM

#

there's also glare

#

the light streaks

#

atlus calls those star

ornate heron Jul 23, 2024, 3:33 PM

#

yeah there are three fields linked together:

#

Enable HDR OR Enable Graphical Output
Enable ToneMap OR Enable Bloom
Enable StarFilter OR Enable Glare

#

in the screenshot - i've got HDR/GO set to 1, StarFilter/Glare set to 1 and ToneMap/Bloom set to 0

left whale Jul 23, 2024, 3:35 PM

#

gomen for cracking audio, idk why rpcs3 does that

#

https://vxtwitter.com/dniwetamp/status/1760784117925396580

vxTwitter / fixvx

atlus 💖 7 🔁 1

DniweTamp (@dniwetamp)

atlus

💖 7 🔁 1

▶ Play video

#

autoexposure

ornate heron Jul 23, 2024, 3:44 PM

#

adachi_true

#

top one is bloom, second one is star right?

ornate heron Jul 25, 2024, 3:21 PM

#

just writing up the outline section - i'm wondering if the outline fields are outline transparency/opacity/darknesss and outlineWidth - i know we discussed it before with the width (and I think that one is correct), but we kind of glossed over the former

#

Because outlinerange is an odd name for a field

left whale Jul 26, 2024, 12:13 PM

#

how so

#

depth range

#

far away objects wont receive outlines

ornate heron Jul 26, 2024, 4:03 PM

#

The outline on the chars as the value increases - looks the same thickness of the sleeve all along, but changes colour from white to black

ornate heron Jul 30, 2024, 7:39 PM

#

The more i play with and write up what I find, the more I learn about video game environments, the crazier and cleverer and complex the whole thing seems 🙂

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:11 PM

#

Dwine - on the beta menu for DOF - are the plane settings defined/independent of each other? Just realised in the ENV both the near and far planes are the same value

left whale Aug 1, 2024, 2:11 PM

#

pretty sure they updated dof from p5 to royal but i'll check

#

#

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:17 PM

#

yeah - its odd. they've set every near plane and far plane to the same value

left whale Aug 1, 2024, 2:18 PM

#

this is true default values btw

#

didnt load any field or env

#

opened the menu on boot screen that shows up before even title

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:18 PM

#

interesting

left whale Aug 1, 2024, 2:18 PM

#

i can check some specific field

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:18 PM

#

would you be able to see what the values are on shujin gates morning?

left whale Aug 1, 2024, 2:18 PM

#

id..

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:20 PM

#

f2002_001

left whale Aug 1, 2024, 2:20 PM

#

full env id...

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:20 PM

#

ENV2002_001_010

#

field 002_001

left whale Aug 1, 2024, 2:21 PM

#

LOL

#

why is it all 0s

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:21 PM

#

lol

#

in royal - its set to 99.6666663, 100 100, 71.64, 0.89, 1

#

which i dont undetstand as a concept, since that would mean the FocalPlane, and the blurplanes are both 100

#

the blur limit is 70

#

and the blur strength is 0.89

left whale Aug 1, 2024, 2:24 PM

#

i cant even edit the values to make just the distant objects blurry

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:24 PM

#

gaussian mode 1

left whale Aug 1, 2024, 2:24 PM

#

it's either full screen or nothing

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:24 PM

#

i assume you ticked the box?

left whale Aug 1, 2024, 2:25 PM

#

actually nvm

#

#

lovely flowers

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:27 PM

#

what's the setting on that latest picture?

left whale Aug 1, 2024, 2:27 PM

#

#

(same on both pics with hidden ui)

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:28 PM

#

interesting

#

yep dont get anything like that in Royal - must have made some major changes

left whale Aug 1, 2024, 2:31 PM

#

isnt there auto focus now

#

(genuinely no clue)

ornate heron Aug 1, 2024, 2:32 PM

#

im just gonna see what the settings are for the new fields

#

like kichijoji

#

yeah looks defaulted

#

100 100 100 across the board

ornate heron Aug 5, 2024, 8:18 PM

#

Finished putting into a doc - its pretty large due to all the images. I'm not sure the terminology used but hopefully its clear what I mean in places!

📎 ENV_Summary.pdf

#

hope it makes sense!

ornate heron Aug 7, 2024, 10:50 PM

#

I've also been working on a little parser for the ENV files that will spit out either a json or a csv - ive done the csv part for the moment, and will get a json done in a while.

https://github.com/bladekey88/simple-P5R-ENV-Parser/releases

i'll also stick this up on wiki, though I doubt i'll be able to include teh images since they're numercvous and large, and probably overkill anyway

GitHub

Releases · bladekey88/simple-P5R-ENV-Parser

This is a small script that will output the values from an ENV to a csv file. This work is based on the templates created by the P5R community. - bladekey88/simple-P5R-ENV-Parser

left whale Aug 7, 2024, 10:52 PM

#

that's ambient

jovial jacinthBOT Aug 7, 2024, 10:52 PM

#

pain_snao

left whale Aug 7, 2024, 10:54 PM

#

same for characters

#

swap ambient and diffuse

#

did you send an old pdf

#

color correct is still rgb instead of cmy too

#

oh wait no i was looking in the wrong section

#

anyways i told you, ambient first, diffuse second, always, everywhere

ornate heron Aug 7, 2024, 11:26 PM

#

no, that's the most recent version

#

those are the names in the template - ive added my comment there, but i dont own that template

#

(as in the ENV template)

#

hence my comment in bold

#

no need to come in swinging so hard

left whale Aug 7, 2024, 11:36 PM

#

oh 💀

#

gomen

ornate heron Aug 8, 2024, 2:16 PM

#

But thinking about it I might swap it round in the summary and note that the templates are the wrong way round, so that the summary is correct and ambient comes first

ornate heron Aug 12, 2024, 11:36 PM

#

Created a json output for ENV (with the corrected field names for Ambient and Diffuse)

📎 ENV2003_002_030.ENV.json

#

its a WIP but i'm using the children field to nest structs, and then the field field for the actual field values. For some fields, I've converted the value to RGB as well.

ornate heron Aug 16, 2024, 10:12 PM

#

https://amicitia.miraheze.org/wiki/Persona_5_Royal/ENV/Structure

I've also stated to add it to wiki so thats its available and easily editable - i've updated the field names to be what I think they should be

ornate heron Aug 17, 2024, 3:15 PM

#

I've completely updated that page and I think for now that's everything done. On the /ENV page I've also put the research on how the ENV iteration works for in-game and for event envs. I'm going to update the PDF, and probably stick it on a google drive somewhere and link it when its done.

I was going to upload the pictures to Imgur, to illustrate the fields on the wiki page, but it wants my phone number when I make an account so I wont be doing that!

Separately, I'm thinking I'll write some code to deserialise the output json I created so that it can be converted back to an ENV file making it easy to edit without using 010 editor/templates

Not sure what/where the best place is to go update the templates, I assume a pull request somewhere?

left whale Aug 17, 2024, 3:16 PM

#

https://github.com/tge-was-taken/010-Editor-Templates

ornate heron Aug 17, 2024, 3:23 PM

#

thanks

ornate heron Aug 17, 2024, 5:03 PM

#

done

#

just the pdf to update, and then i'll post it here, and close this. I'll open a new topic for the json deserialisation

pliant mural Aug 17, 2024, 6:13 PM

#

Really good work on this! It's amazing to have someone around who both can and actually WANTS to document in detail femc

ornate heron Aug 17, 2024, 8:46 PM

#

😅 thanks. i love persona 5, i love technology, and i like learning new things

ornate heron Aug 20, 2024, 4:38 PM

#

Updated, including changing the field names to what I had initially suggested - being bold! The wiki page is also updated with this.

Also added some info for the footer and the two missing fields before the CM and FM section

#

📎 ENV_Summary.pdf

ornate heron Aug 20, 2024, 7:02 PM

#

I think I've also fixed the json so that it adds teh missing fields that aren't in the original template (includes the footer). The only issue with it now is there is no key at the root level, so the json structure techically is two objects at the root level, but apparently that is valid json

#

📎 ENV0000_000_000.ENV.json

ornate heron Aug 24, 2024, 9:51 PM

#

(marked as solved)

left whale Aug 24, 2024, 10:24 PM

#

demistare

#

i think it's probably better to leave this open for a little bit still

#

just in case

ornate heron Aug 25, 2024, 2:17 PM

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That sounds ominous Rise_what

#Help understanding how ENV Objects are configured in EVTs