Persona 3 Reload | Master Quest

[dreamy orchid]

actually wait

[dreamy orchid]

i could just use my pre-adamah save

[ashen pulsar]

bdjk will do it for you

[dreamy orchid]

then try to beat master quest nyx

[ashen pulsar]

he's addicted

[dreamy orchid]

nah bdjk has 99 stat personas

i will use unoptimised builds

[iron pilot]

well yeah my Messiah and Baal Zebul did

[dreamy orchid]

and your chernobog

[iron pilot]

although majority of the runtime I was using Houo

[hollow trail]

well again is there anything at all mq might be missing

I've gone through so many changes and every time I do it does ripple throughout the entire game

I've 100% missed something lol

no sense doing a full run until there's a release candidate for 1.0

[iron pilot]

birthday gift

[ashen pulsar]

did you do hermit

[hollow trail]

yes but with my vanilla save

[ashen pulsar]

not hermit

i mean

uh

[dreamy orchid]

maybe modify shadow of the void

[ashen pulsar]

'handgedman

'

[hollow trail]

yes but with my vanilla save

[ashen pulsar]

plk

[hollow trail]

i rekt strega actually lmao

i skipped the diarahan phase

[iron pilot]

yeah edit those 3 dudes

I'd say 85

[hollow trail]

are they after jotun of grief but before jin only

[iron pilot]

yeah

see those floor availability on the right

[hollow trail]

ah

wait wouldn't that mean you can only grind them on 1/31

[iron pilot]

yeah? but I mean, a good number would try arcana burst in 1/31 anyways for king cards

it's an option for people that neglected adamah until 1/31 for some reason

[hollow trail]

I've also noticed a problem

I've started stealthing Tartarus and doing gatekeeper only because at almost every single point regular shadows give 0 xp and it's literally only worth fighting them for shuffle times after you've reached barrier floor

[iron pilot]

it'll be more relevant if the players allow members to die so they get all exp

that or solos

[hollow trail]

ye

[iron pilot]

I think that'll be fine

[hollow trail]

i can't allow "solo for more mc xp then clock" as a valid strategy tho

well

not as the "only possible method"

[iron pilot]

there's a cap of 13 levels

maybe reduce that?

[hollow trail]

wdym

[iron pilot]

like

if the protag and the member's difference is greater than 13, the clock will only give 13 more levels for the member regardless of that

[hollow trail]

I'm not sure i can edit that lmao

[iron pilot]

reducing the amount to something like 7 or 8 sounds fine to me

[hollow trail]

nah that sounds extremely shit

if anything I'd remove cap

[iron pilot]

hmmmm

well I don't really think it'll be a problem in the earlier stages

just the endgame assuming no reaper

[hollow trail]

anyway i gotta decide if there's anything at all I wanna add or change and then ig full test run is in order

[iron pilot]

me when the week long full run

lmfao

[hollow trail]

well ye but you were doing anti haxman

[iron pilot]

I don't think I can play after this week

sorry man

[hollow trail]

np

i wanna see if i can launch this around the same time as wave 2

probably a little later but it's alright

[iron pilot]

oh yeah when is that dropping

[hollow trail]

may

lol

[iron pilot]

wait no specific date?

like, just may?

[hollow trail]

yup

[iron pilot]

tf are they cooking

[hollow trail]

idk!

I'm waiting for wave 2 to figure out if the mod will still load and if it's all good i launch mq

[iron pilot]

good idea

[hollow trail]

except of course, i need to figure out if the thing is even beatable

[iron pilot]

a party of 80s and 90 protag with good equipment and personas can, at least

[hollow trail]

ye

in isolation every boss has been fine

it's the xp curve I'm concerned abt

[iron pilot]

yeah probably just accommodating king card grinders and see what happens

[iron pilot]

Oh yeah quick question

Is Aigis' AI fixed in Orgia mode here

[hollow trail]

No, but ai tactics fix is compatible (ish, it still uses revive items)

i could bundle it into MQ tho

im doing liz rn and its probably gonna end up complete bullshit lol

[iron pilot]

Do you want my save for that

[hollow trail]

might be useful

[iron pilot]

I'll give it later then

[hollow trail]

i am boosting her damage to obnoxious levels

[iron pilot]

Saki Mitama Diarahan build real?

[hollow trail]

tradeoff, i think i'm gonna "allow" nulls (she'll do break + tarukaja)

i'm also allowing all ailments except fear

because of ghastly shit

[hollow trail]

i havent figured out exactly what controls high counter punish though so i won't do this yet

[iron pilot]

Oh, you can ask him

Pretty sure they studied Liz AI to find armageddonless at some point

[hollow trail]

all boosts liz should be fine right

rakukaja + tarunda + divine pillar and you're good

or evade strats

[iron pilot]

Do you want divine pillar as required?

[hollow trail]

i mean it wouldn't be required but definitely help LOL

[iron pilot]

True

Well anyways, try aiming for 600 HP protag since that's what everyone has

[hollow trail]

i still havent tested full evade strats (ali dance + angelic grace + sukukaja + sukunda + 99 ag)

so i have no idea if it'll actually hit 0.00x

would be funni

(mq sets theoretical minimum acc to 0 and max to 100)

(its 98 in vanilla)

[iron pilot]

Btw is there a way to like, make her tank damage a bit more

[hollow trail]

idk but i changed all her affinities to match the actual persona in the compendium

except metatron

metatron lears elec repel, so hers has that too

[iron pilot]

Lmfao

[hollow trail]

nebiros will also have unshaken will

but i dont think that's gonna matter much

[iron pilot]

Are the phases intact

[hollow trail]

i have done literally nothing to her ai yet

just passives and resists

im scared of touching the ai

its like 3x as complicated as nyx

[iron pilot]

That's true

Vulnerability turns and whatnot

[hollow trail]

yeah she checks for last damage taken and shit

fully unique ai procs

[iron pilot]

Aye

[hollow trail]

i think her ai is fine (i don't agree with many pixie punish rules but thats another topic)

she just takes too much damage and deals almost nothing

only has boost for whatever reason

[iron pilot]

That's what I'm saying!!!

I did the fight without buffs or debuffs or guarding or healing

[hollow trail]

LOOOOOOOOOOL

ok i'm definitely less scared to give her all boosts then

like

[iron pilot]

https://youtu.be/fGATZfN2nUE?feature=shared

[hollow trail]

i gave surt Fire Boost/Amp/Driver Magic Ability/Mastery Slash Driver Crit Rate Amp and Single Target Boost

for example

[iron pilot]

Insane

[hollow trail]

i think maths wise this is the most hardcore you can make her surt

[iron pilot]

Then again, no evasion cap......

[hollow trail]

yeah but rakukaja + tarunda is alr pretty high reduction

this is probably less damage than memento mori rebalance liz

[iron pilot]

Lmfao

[hollow trail]

but yeah

no evasion cap

can also distress her

but

that lasts a turn

so ig for setting up heals??

well technically 2 or 3 turns

no instaheal

i have no idea how charmed liz will behave

should be funny

will probably just do nothing

[iron pilot]

Depends if she has buffs on the persona

[hollow trail]

oh yeah she'd use them on you

but there's no space for buffs

cuz of all the passives

LOOOOOL

charm liz for free heat riser

[iron pilot]

Do you want to take care of the skip

[hollow trail]

can you skip phases by doing high dmg

i think that's ok

surely she wont die in 2 turns if you're actually forced to maintain buff and debuff + heals

[iron pilot]

Nah it's AI abuse, you just do first phase and make her repel on second phase

[hollow trail]

wdym

[iron pilot]

https://youtu.be/AiWL0zKLZ7Q?feature=shared

See for yourself

She's guaranteed to do that

[hollow trail]

you broke pixie punish? i dont get it

[iron pilot]

Ok so uh, the moves she does in 2nd phase is predetermined

[hollow trail]

she's supposed to diarahan right

[iron pilot]

Nah the way she punishes repels is she attacks through your repels or nulls and then she'll megidolaon

[hollow trail]

i changed the vulnerabilities to weakness btw

(doesnt down, no 1more)

its also less damage than the 200% neutral

i think

should be 150%?

[iron pilot]

So abusing that to get her under 10K and then using armageddon ends the fight immediately

50% is the OG value so that's good

You have to take into account Weakness Amp

[hard vault]

Visual feedback my beloved

[hollow trail]

yup

that is the reason

[hollow trail]

like 170% then

[iron pilot]

Actually, wouldn't it be 200% with weakness amp

[hollow trail]

is it?

maybe

[iron pilot]

1.5x1.2

[hollow trail]

i only tested with anubis bufu

which was like 160 damage

lol

no boosts tho

[iron pilot]

Oh wait it's 1.8x

Silly me

But yeah you need to take that into account

[hollow trail]

i mean i just want it to say "weak"

i dont really care for much else

i can make her tankier by setting all her neutrals to neutralxpercentdamagereduced

[iron pilot]

Right, just thought you wouldn't want it to make too much damage

[hollow trail]

wont stop theurgies

so you can probably bypass all this shit and 5turn her anyway

[iron pilot]

Well if we can't have theurgia first turn

We can't

Lmao

But that's just delaying things, honestly

[hollow trail]

oh right

i mean

you gotta upkeep buffs and shit now

idk

i'll give her boosts without touching ai for now and then we'll see ig

[iron pilot]

Sure, let's see

I'll give the save later, I can't play atm

[hollow trail]

all good

im probably going bed soon anyway

i'll drop wip then doze off

[iron pilot]

Good night

[dreamy orchid]

this is actually stronger than the p3 version but you can probably tank better here regardless

or well, the inferno would be stronger

[iron pilot]

Is it?

[dreamy orchid]

yea

inferno with 5x boost cap is 15,000 power lol

[hollow trail]

what if i remove cap.............................

jk

[dreamy orchid]

if you remove the cap then its like a 7x multiplier

lmao

[hollow trail]

doesnt the cap make some of these boosts redundant then

[dreamy orchid]

without driver it doesn't reach cap, but with driver magic ability is pointless

[iron pilot]

Nah you hit cap with that combo

[dreamy orchid]

no?

isn't that 4.04x?

[hollow trail]

ah so if i remove cap only enemies and pay2win will benefit

[dreamy orchid]

no

you can reach boost cap without driver, its just you need shift boosters too

weakness amp can also do it technically

[hollow trail]

that's

honestly kinda good

im ngl

[iron pilot]

Wot, you need ability to hit cap with mastery

And driver

[dreamy orchid]

oh so its single target boost thats pointless

sorry i thought we were arguing about without driver

[iron pilot]

Yeah it's single target

Anyways

[dreamy orchid]

remove single-target boost for slash amp

[hollow trail]

yeah thats what i was thinkin

[dreamy orchid]

i don't think liz needs to hit cap tho its a little overboard

it does at least mandate resisting her attacks tho

[iron pilot]

Technically you can null but she will break apparently

[dreamy orchid]

but like, 15,000 base power and player doesn't reach 999 by normal means anymore

[hollow trail]

i should remove cap.

i will remove cap.

[iron pilot]

You sure?

[dreamy orchid]

that'd just make the power creep issue even worse lol

[iron pilot]

Goemon will be goated with the sauce

[hollow trail]

goemon is dlc

[iron pilot]

I love Yusuke

[dreamy orchid]

johanna arts

[iron pilot]

I love Yusuke

[dreamy orchid]

As we all know, Yusuke is a magic user

Goemon uses diamond dusto

[hollow trail]

im removing all dlc skills from the dlc personas

deadass

if you want to break cap you gotta have 7 stacked passives, trait, and shift

that's not a bad tradeoff

[iron pilot]

Oh ok that's not that bad, actually

Although imo

[dreamy orchid]

its not really much of a tradeoff, you aren't exactly losing much

[iron pilot]

I don't think think removing AoE magic will do much

[hollow trail]

it means you're not artificially punished for stacking everything you have access to

[iron pilot]

Those things are weaker than the single hit ones

[hollow trail]

and it requires a special condition (shift)

to maximize

it's not too bad

i wont do it

but it's an idea

[dreamy orchid]

give the player less things to stack

[hollow trail]

i like stacking sorry

[dreamy orchid]

bye bye mastery, sorry bdjk

[iron pilot]

Then again, making the AoE 4th tier magic Nyx exclusive is pretty cool

Dew it

[hollow trail]

ye

rip shining middows

[iron pilot]

Ripbozo

[hollow trail]

oh

i have an extra passive slot on metatron

im giving it heat riser

charm her on metatron phase

free buff

wait

no

diarahan

yes

[dreamy orchid]

idk i feel like there is just more interesting ways to do the 7 passive meta than literally 7 damage boosters cus to me it just makes the power creep a bit too high, like it heavily widens the skill gap between people who know what they're doing and people who don't

i feel like if you got somebody who doesn't know how to build personas to play master quest they'd partly think every boss is a damage sponge

[iron pilot]

I mean, this is targeted towards experienced dudes so idk

[hollow trail]

widens the skill gap between people who know what they're doing and people who don't

this is not an issue.

[hollow trail]

its always been labelled as "for returning players"

i assume you know how the game goes

not persona

but specifically reload

[dreamy orchid]

i suppose so

i just worry things might seem a bit spongey if you're not doing more optimal builds

[hollow trail]

i mean

[iron pilot]

Gonna be honest, likely a lot's gonna NG+ this one

[dreamy orchid]

boosts kind of seem a bit required given how high the hp totals are now

[hollow trail]

i kinda want optimized stuff to be the way to win

and yeah

a lotta ppl are gonna ng+

with their lv99 saves

which is gonna break the mod in 2

[dreamy orchid]

well then they're kind of defeating the purpose are they not

[iron pilot]

Yep

[dreamy orchid]

no reason to balance for those people lol

[hollow trail]

i should make a NG+ version that scales everything from thebel to 99

no ballz

(i wont)

[iron pilot]

No cock

[hollow trail]

once decompiler gets better i do wanna try making a challenge run mode

[dreamy orchid]

ken theurgia in every encounter

[hollow trail]

climb tartarus in one go, no breaks, no saves (except checkpoints)

make gatekeepers give randomized perk

[dreamy orchid]

i won't lie meovv

that sounds somewhat horrible to go through lmao

[iron pilot]

That sounds pretty big in scope

[dreamy orchid]

perusona 3 roguelike is a funny concept tho

[iron pilot]

Tartarus but it's PvZ survival endless

[dreamy orchid]

but like

at that point just play srb2p

[hollow trail]

im only doing it for shits n giggles

im already making my megaten-adjacent roguelike

dont forget

lol

[dreamy orchid]

doing all of tartarus in one go, but you have access to getsu-ei

[hollow trail]

i can probably let you save at gatekeepers

but that enables cheese

lol

bro i lost 30 followers for saying yukari and aki are mid

its so over

[iron pilot]

Ok how about the last guardian in the section

Like, swift axle for thebel, for example

[hollow trail]

i think saving after killing them

would be ok

[iron pilot]

Most pettiest way to hate someone

[hollow trail]

but not before

anyway this isnt even possible to do yet so

[dreamy orchid]

they just can't accept that 11sp mediarahan actually isn't that good

[hollow trail]

im inclined to believe ken with full invig stack will literally make it just as cheap

[dreamy orchid]

it could cost 0sp and it'd still be bad

[dreamy orchid]

he'd also charge his theurgia quicker anyways

[hollow trail]

yeah

[dreamy orchid]

Ken actually charges faster from heal botting than Yukari does

funniest shit ever

[hollow trail]

ppl said she's "A THEURGY MACHINE"

but she's objectively slower

[iron pilot]

If you ask me, nerfing his revive to just a recarm effect is good

[dreamy orchid]

she's like, 3rd or 4th fastest

[hollow trail]

yes but i need ken to be op

[dreamy orchid]

yea i think the karns are too busted imo

[hollow trail]

so he's keeping karn

[dreamy orchid]

Meovv is an Amada truther?

[hollow trail]

no i'm a "reaper needs to be fucking killable at level 70 or mq will softlock" truther

[dreamy orchid]

can he get a better ult skill than hiito raizah pls

[iron pilot]

Yeah keep karn but make the revive effect just half

[hollow trail]

gigabrain

low level liz for xp

[dreamy orchid]

so he only gets karn and 50% heal/revive?

are you making liz give xp now

[hollow trail]

she doesnt?

[dreamy orchid]

she gives 0 yea

[hollow trail]

L

[iron pilot]

Yeah she never does

Just 0

Even in OG fr

[iron pilot]

Yeah

[hollow trail]

i'm gonna make her give 7777777

(you're level 99 so its 0)

[iron pilot]

That's true

In terms of HP/SP you do need to be that high

But in theory

I can do it level 86

[hollow trail]

elizabeth v1 wip (very ultra untested bullshit edition)

• weaknesses changed to kinda match the real personas in compendium, as well as the passives they learn (cu chullain has fast heal for example, metatron has repel elec)
• all ailments except fear work
• masakados and pixie have firm stance + sharp student
• all phases have absurd damage booster passives
• nebiros, metatron and alice can heal/heat riser you if you charm elizabeth (untested)

[hollow trail]

@iron pilot

accidental ping trololo

[iron pilot]

Oof

Why did you remove the dude tho

[hollow trail]

because pinging someone forces them into the thread

im pretty sure they can rejoin it

[iron pilot]

Oh

[dreamy orchid]

does she have normal weaknesses

[hollow trail]

yeah they're normal

[iron pilot]

Vulnerabilities

[dreamy orchid]

no in the mod i mean

[iron pilot]

Usually

[dreamy orchid]

is it weakness or is it hidden

[iron pilot]

Oh yeah

[hollow trail]

in the mod they show now

yes

[dreamy orchid]

okie

[hollow trail]

its also probably less damage

its 200% in vanilla

probably 1.8x here

she's down-immune

[dreamy orchid]

(technically means less damage which is a phys W, we take those)

[hollow trail]

i cant change that even if i want to

[iron pilot]

You can make it 1.66x to emulate the old version

[dreamy orchid]

well like

protag has weakness amp now

so that kind of fucks with it

[iron pilot]

Yeah and it'll turn to 2x

If you do that

[hollow trail]

weaknesses dont have a lot of leeway in the reductions/increases

i can do like

weak 99% reduced

weak

155% increased

which is already way overkill

and 400% increased

oh and 1000%

did like 1300 damage with unboosted anubis bufu

was funny

anyway good luck to whoever decides to test this shit im sleepin

im not even sure it's beatable

(there's probably some stupid 3 turn cheese)

[iron pilot]

Yeah it'll be

You need to change her AI if you ask me

[hollow trail]

the ai is in the files

UNUSED_ELIZABETH

you can read it for ideas

but i havent changed a thing

[iron pilot]

Just disabling skip imo

But if you buffed the God's Hand I think you made it more reliable

It's not 5 turns but

Oh wait

You made her thor null strike

Oh yeah you did it unintentionally

Lmao

[hollow trail]

Thor nulls strike though

i made it repel all phys because it has high counter in compendium

did i not save that?

[iron pilot]

Eh? No he nulls slash usually

For the fight

[hollow trail]

is aqiu wrong?

ah

[iron pilot]

Yeah that's why the skip works

Well now it doesn't so yay

[hollow trail]

she repels all phys though

on thor

does that enable skip

i can change it

[iron pilot]

No, I don't think it does

God's Hand has to be from her for it to work

[hollow trail]

oh so because she repels all phys, skip won't work

[iron pilot]

Yeah

[hollow trail]

LMA

O

unintentionally fixing game

[iron pilot]

100% high counter real?

[hollow trail]

yeah i was gonna give her high counter

but

then i thought it was too rng

made it 100%

[iron pilot]

Huh.....

Maybe we can armageddonless this one

Pixie doesn't null all anymore right

[hollow trail]

neither does masakados

[iron pilot]

Oh they have firm stance

Right...

Yeah we can't

[hollow trail]

What's the logic here?

does she always heal on 50% or something

[iron pilot]

Oh we know ways how to deal 10K damage in two turns but since Pixie nulls all we can't do it

[iron pilot]

Also not exactly

[hollow trail]

oh and firm stance would make it 5k so strat dies

[iron pilot]

First time when knocking her to phase 3, yes she heals then heat riser

Second she concentrate and megidolaon, so you need enduring soul to beat the fight

After that if you don't armageddon

She'll megidolaon again

And heal

[hollow trail]

oh so Armageddon is a hard requirement if you can't outdamage otherwise

[iron pilot]

You can survive with endure but since her AI will do that again when she goes down to 10K again, the fight's dead

[iron pilot]

King and I also works

[hollow trail]

king and i is 9700 dmg right

[iron pilot]

With more setup and some luck but yeah

Yeah and you either use deus xiphos

Or Black Viper

To end it

The popular way is black viper though, since deus xiphos needs crit

Actual garbage sword

I did it with morning star, which is possible but the margins are smaller

I did it first tho lmaoooo

[hollow trail]

is the 50% hp heal immediate, or can you time Armageddon without relying on repel strats

[iron pilot]

People think omegaevolution did though

[hollow trail]

oh wait counter does megidolaon now too

[iron pilot]

Nah you need to knock her down to 50% yourself and endure with max theurgia

Then armageddon

[hollow trail]

So you actually do need to deplete 20k first

and endure the megi

[iron pilot]

Yeah normally

The skip that you disabled kills 3rd phase entirely

So lol

[hollow trail]

still find it hilarious i fixed it without trying

[iron pilot]

Funnily enough, his null slash before hardcapped lowest turns in OG/FES

Now it does jackshit

[hollow trail]

well whenever bullshit liz gets tested I'll be here

for now

[iron pilot]

I do 2K less damage so that's good

oh

mate there's a problem here

Cu Chullain triggers vulnerability moves even though he resists elec

that's counterintuitive to how the fight works

also the SP aspect of this fight's cranked to 100

I have 700 SP on third phase

phys might be the play at lower SP pools

on the other hand though, you can say it's NG+ oriented

oh yeah I have items

hmmmm in that sense the SP aspect isn't that impactful

beatable

evasion strats is cracked af

can't do the skip either

oh yeah pixie has weakness?

you can't armageddonless it though

because in practice, the mod will not have driver available

weakness hits are weaker by around 2.5K or something

so yeah that's good

phys isn't that bad either but the crit rates and HP drain makes them less ideal

but it does uses less SP

the cu chullain thing is a problem though

[hollow trail]

can you explain this a bit more

cu chullain is weak to wind here, what exactly is liz doing that's wrong

[iron pilot]

ok Cu Chullain is her wind user right

by how her fight works normally, the vulnerability of this one should be elec

the way her AI works in 3rd phase is she uses a pair of personas in one turn

this pair is predetermined

and there's two sets of pairs

one where you didn't hit her vulnerability last turn

and one where you did

the AI still used the latter pair when I hit Cu Chullain with elec

even though it was a resist instead of a weakness

so basically

it switched up what pair to use without the mechanics being properly employed

I suspect this will happen in first phase too

but the way that works is slightly different, that one skips the next persona in the rotation instead

so in this example, if I hit cu chullain with elec, even though it's a resist, she'll use Alice instead

[hollow trail]

so I should make chullain weak to elec instead

[iron pilot]

More or less

If you want to use the regular AI, that's the play

[hollow trail]

@iron pilot anything other than cu chullain that needs edit

do i just remove his ice weak and change it to elec

any other persona with this issue

slightly less untested bullshit liz

[iron pilot]

Nah everyone else aligns atm

[hollow trail]

i did plan on fully rewriting the AI (i really, really, really dislike Liz's rules) but if you think this is good i'll leave it for now

[iron pilot]

Well it's an improvement from the original but hmmmm

[iron pilot]

hmmm mechanics wise it's the original but a bit more risky at the intended HP

I also elected to try Takaya and Jin solo and yeah it's beatable

it needs cookie or enduring soul though

lmao

Nyx doesn't need cookie, since you can stall for invigs

Takaya though, you need cookie if you have max HP or enduring soul if you don't

[hollow trail]

void ACT_Rez()
{
    //Original Procedure commented out for Master Quest compatibility
    //int var15;
    //var15 = AI_ACT_REZ();
    
    //if ( var15 != -1 )
    //{
    //    sVar0 = 10;
    //}
    
    if ( ( ( AI_CHK_THEURGIA() == 1 ) && ( AI_CHK_MYID( 8 ) == 1 ) ) && ( AI_CHK_MYABLESKIL( 298 ) == 1 ) && ( AI_CHK_FRBAD( 0x00080000 ) == 1 ) )
    {
        
        AI_ACT_THEURGIA( 298 ); //Divine Intervention
        AI_TAR_RND();
        sVar0 = 10;
        return;

    }
    else if ( ( AI_CHK_MYABLESKIL( 166 ) == 1 ) && ( AI_CHK_FRBAD( 0x00080000 ) == 1 ) )
    {
        AI_ACT_SKILL( 166 ); //Samarecarm
        AI_TAR_BAD( 0x00080000 );
        sVar0 = 10;
        return;
    }
    else if ( ( AI_CHK_MYABLESKIL( 165 ) == 1 ) && ( AI_CHK_FRBAD( 0x00080000 ) == 1 ) )
    {
        AI_ACT_SKILL( 165 ); //Recarm
        AI_TAR_BAD( 0x00080000 );
        sVar0 = 10;
        return;
    }

}```

nuked band-ace usage from tactics ai

next is dlc

and then maybe removing soul drop etc from the item pool when pulinpad

though that one maybe opens up strat

self confuse for sp regen

very niche

[ashen pulsar]

Junpei only should be allowed to use bandace

[hollow trail]

cant do that

item usage is hardcoded

i rewrote the entire function so naturally items are excluded

coincidentally worked out the way i want

[ashen pulsar]

why would they do that

[hollow trail]

easier for dev

when they want to call res

they just call ai_rez()

simple reference instead of having to write it out every time

i cant edit that function though

i just wrote my own lol

[ashen pulsar]

op

[hard vault]

Dlc balancing

It blows that the dlc Personas have just always been pay to win because mann I'd love to actually use some of these and they're just the most busted fun ruining thing possible

[hollow trail]

this already exists

https://gamebanana.com/mods/497473

i'm just re-re-balancing it for master quest compatibility

[hard vault]

Ahh

[hollow trail]

i can't have the phantom thieves with weaker versions of their magic

cuz my custom nyx uses their skills

so i have to outright remove them

or nyx would be weaker

[hard vault]

Ic ic

[ashen pulsar]

Will they just have like maha-agionns or something instead?

[hollow trail]

agiraos

not high enough lv

might do agirao with agi booster

dlc rework made their magics "Mid-Heavy"

so less than dyne

[celest kindle]

Could've worked a little if you couldn't get them when you were like

[hollow trail]

but more than medium

[celest kindle]

Level 1

[hollow trail]

so medium with booster might be fine

although tbh

adding the booster, even if it's "balanced"

makes them pre-made kits

[hard vault]

I think it just should've been a ng+ thing or it was properly leveled for and locked

[hollow trail]

which is already a little handholdy

so maybe not

[hard vault]

Instead of just being automatically registered and free to take from the compendium

[celest kindle]

Yea

[hollow trail]

they're immediately summonable because they are dlc

it makes logical sense

you're not buying a dlc then being told "uh actually beat the entire game to be able to use this thing you bought"

the solution is it just not existing at all

[celest kindle]

Can kind of see that but idk if it's really worth it to fuck up the balance just because of that

[hollow trail]

you fuck it up by buying it and saying "yes i'm sure" to elizabeth herself telling you it will fuck up balance

[celest kindle]

Can agree with not being there at all being the better solution though

[hollow trail]

idk

you do it to yourself

[ashen pulsar]

yeah it specifically tells you

[hollow trail]

she warns you it's op

[ashen pulsar]

"you could one shot me with this"

[hollow trail]

cendrilling

[celest kindle]

I mean it does but it being so freely available can end up affecting anybody trying the game for the first time for example

[ashen pulsar]

not something really feasible here but it was kinda interesting how country milker scaled on game progression so it's not as op at the start as it is at the end

[hollow trail]

someone doing that is probably playing on normal or easy anyway tbf

if you have enough IQ to play merciless you have IQ to read the warning liz gives out

[ashen pulsar]

persona fans reading challenge (99% fail)

[celest kindle]

True but it is a good idea to try and not make the game pretty much PTW for newcomers and veterans alike

[hollow trail]

ig

the dlc is fundamentally shit design

but you do it to yourself

you are being warned and subjecting yourself to an inferior game

[ashen pulsar]

It turns the game into P1?

[ashen pulsar]

It is what it is

they do be selling

[hollow trail]

im removing severe aoes because nyx uses them so i cant nerf them in mq

but the rest of the uniques

arent used by anyone

so those i think i will nerf and keep

[ashen pulsar]

osk and such?

[hollow trail]

yeap

[ashen pulsar]

add another 0 to makojams skill

[hollow trail]

lol

wait i have to remove some of these lol

masquerade is by definition impossible

i cant make it match heaven's blade crit because too low level

and i can't nerf it to 10%

because it'll ruin the point

[ashen pulsar]

wdym?

[hollow trail]

masq and osk are high crit skills that's their thing

i'd lower it obviously

but it can't match heaven's blade because it's too early

and it can't match the rest because it would ruin the point

can't be higher than rest either because it would be p2w

[ashen pulsar]

what do you have heaven's blade at

[hollow trail]

20

[ashen pulsar]

ah

[hollow trail]

single target usually is 10

aoe is 5

HB is special

[ashen pulsar]

couldn't osk be high crit very low damage?

well

"high"

[hollow trail]

eh that's still a shift generator

i should just nuke all the uniques

thats boring though

shining arrows

magatsu mandala and sinful shell getting nuked too

makes the point of the dlc personas kinda pointless

no cool skill

[ashen pulsar]

yeah but nobody uses lucky punch for that in 5 and baton pass is even stronger there

[hollow trail]

ig

[ashen pulsar]

masquerade might also work at 15, if the baseline is 10 then it's 1.5x baseline crit rate, just like it was in 5

10/15 20/30

[hollow trail]

yeah but that's an increase you would only get through dlc

i'm nullifying all p2w

might as well just nuke it and be done with it

[ashen pulsar]

ok

[ashen pulsar]

sexoooo

[hollow trail]

means i could give nyx more dlc skills too

but most of them are weak

[ashen pulsar]

[hollow trail]

aoe severe is the only one

that is worth

nyx doesnt use wild thunder either

cuz of tera spark

[ashen pulsar]

morning star replaced with makojam's unique skill!!

actually ive never seen the animation for that one lol

[hollow trail]

i only used shining arrows lmao

[ashen pulsar]

kaguying out

sweep/sunder replaced with masquerade/osk

[hollow trail]

would be less crit

i think

weaker in general

[ashen pulsar]

same crit and higher damage for masquerade

osk tho yeah

[hollow trail]

i only took blazing hell and vacuum wave because i needed something matching ice storm and tera spark

lol

[ashen pulsar]

inexplicably powerful maha-agionn

[hollow trail]

fancy name tho

[ashen pulsar]

trye.

[hollow trail]

• Added AI Tactics Fixes (MQ Ver.) - Improves Orgia Mode AI and fixes revive items being used by AI.
• Added DLC Rework (MQ Ver.) - Adds reworked DLC Persona progression from the mod, and additionally removes all exclusive skills from DLC Personas entirely.
• Did not "fix" Confuse making party members use HP/SP items. Going to let that stick for now to see if it becomes potential strat opportunity

[hollow trail]

@ashen pulsar @dreamy orchid if i can yoink and adapt detailed descriptions for MQ that would be nice otherwise not sure i'll bother too much

[ashen pulsar]

sure

[dreamy orchid]

wait for me to update first

it has some outdated info lol

[hollow trail]

the info doesn't matter

because mq changes everything

[ashen pulsar]

does it change rebellion

[hollow trail]

what's wrong about rebellion

[ashen pulsar]

description wrong

[hollow trail]

🥴

[ashen pulsar]

iirc says 5 instead of 7

immersion breaking,

[iron pilot]

Technically the dlc personas are still somewhat there having a purpose without drivers or AoE magic

For example, Cendrillon gives Premonition (card only in vanilla)

And Seiten Taisei gives Auto Rebellion (20 levels lower than the next vanilla persona that gives it)

[dreamy orchid]

no not for skills

just certain effects and passives are wrong

[iron pilot]

Heat Riser

[dreamy orchid]

buffs/debuffs are somewhat mislabeled, rebellion effect is wrong and foul breath isn't even there lol

[iron pilot]

Honestly mate I think it'll just be good if like

You just update the 3 buffs/debuffs

[dreamy orchid]

yeah i was gonna just change heat riser back to atk/def/acc/eva up

[iron pilot]

And let intuition work the rest for heat riser/debilitate

[dreamy orchid]

yeah

sukukaja will look the most scuffed

but it'll be fiiiiine

[ashen pulsar]

already is

[hollow trail]

dlc rework removes that lol

they do NOT learn ANY skill that is higher level than them

and satanael doesn't have magic ability

[iron pilot]

Skill issue

[dreamy orchid]

why does he even have that

its the same as messiah lmao

learns no non-almighty magic skills
gets a booster specifically for non-almighty magic skills

[iron pilot]

I guess it's the closest analog for Tyrant's Mind

[dreamy orchid]

they should've just given him actual tyrant's mind to arbitrarily make him the best almighty persona

[ashen pulsar]

almighty driver

[dreamy orchid]

johanna almighty driver

[iron pilot]

Cosmic Flare looks like shit

[ashen pulsar]

you look like shit

[iron pilot]

Yeah I know

Takes one to know one

[iron pilot]

ok would Aigis go for Myriad Arrows if I used Orgia mode on her

let's try it out

[idle crown]

I don’t know if this has already been posted or not but do you have a list of things you’re planning on changing for this mod?

[celest kindle]

I don't think there's planned changes but every release has a log of changes

[iron pilot]

new boss design and AI for story bosses
Rebalanced skills across the board
Deletion of DLC skills and passives obtained by normal means
Reworked party member AI
Removal of healing and revival items' usability in battle (planned as a toggle)
Soft level cap
Some members' skill tree being reworked

[celest kindle]

The 5th change is an optional thing

Ofc

Ah

Quick on the draw

[dreamy orchid]

some members (literally just Fraudihiko)

[iron pilot]

Nah Ken gets Endure

Koro lost dogbilitate

[dreamy orchid]

+1 and -1 skill isn't really a rework in the way akihiko getting like 8 new ones is

but yeah they are changed

[iron pilot]

I didn't say they were significant

Soz mate

[dreamy orchid]

every other character is just vanilla though besides phys theurgias being somewhat nerfed

[iron pilot]

That's the gist of the changes done

[iron pilot]

Liz save

I need to archive this save to test something

[hollow trail]

• Full Moon bosses, Strega, Reaper, and Nyx all have edited stats and new AI. Chidori especially is fully designed from scratch as Reload made her battle a scripted event
• Skills are rebalanced to make Phys less overpowering, healing is more expensive
• Theurgy is mostly kept the same, but Junpei's is very slightly nerfed and all phys theurgies have base crit of 1% now, which means you need to use crit raising perks to make full use of it
• All forms of revive except Recarm and Samarecarm are removed (Oracle and Divine Intervention also work)
• All items that heal HP and SP can no longer be used in battle, except Odd Morsels, Muscle Drinks, Takoyakis, Rancid Gravy and the christmas gifts from Fuuka/Yukari/Mitsuru/Yuko
• All HP and SP items have their effectiveness cut by 50%, Soma has Full HP but 25% SP
• Theurgy is reset at the start of every full moon boss, and gatekeepers
• Akihiko's skills are greatly enhanced, Koromaru loses debilitate, Ken gets Endure
• Several changes to battle calculations have been made, such as poison no longer being overpowered, accuracy can get debuffed to 0% for both sides, charge/concentrate is reduced to 2.0x instead of 2.3x and other similar edits
• Level scaling in all forms has been removed like in SMTV Vengeance, allowing low-level runs, and also making fights tougher even if you're overleveled
• XP is drastically reduced if you are higher level than the enemy, each level dropping by 25% (0 xp if 4+ levels above the enemy)
• Merciless weakness and critical boosts removed on the player's side (Yes, it was a thing. No, it doesn't really matter much)
• Most items are more expensive to buy, some OP stuff is more expensive to craft
• (Not implemented) Tiredness

Ideas for post release, but don't really want to do them yet:

• Lv 99 mode similar to SMTVV Godborn
• Challenge climb mode with story removed and some other mechanics changed

i may have missed a detail or two but that's about it

ah right DLC personas also have every unique skill completely removed, making them as normal as possible

it's like my dlc rework mod but even tougher

[ashen pulsar]

meow meow expansion pass ?? 🙀

[hollow trail]

i imagine i'll mod the answer too so technically i guess

[inland crystal]

a mode balanced around level 99 would be cool, was one of my favorite things in p5s

[errant pumice]

So with the XP scaling, I saw that it is changed for the lower levels. Any changes for higher levels enemies beaten or is it just vanilla?

By the way, once the mod is fully released and mostly finished, I’ll give it a shot! So for the final bosses, can they be beaten without ally incense increases or does the mod aim for everyone must be level 99 with high stats at endgame? Or is this mod essentially a new game + that isn’t recommended for new game files?

[ashen pulsar]

its doable without incenses

[errant pumice]

I know it’s doable without it, just wondering if incense stat distribution would be highly recommended for the mod

[hollow trail]

so far everything's been manageable with average quality personas, free/tartarus chest gear and no incense

because that's just how persona is designed to be

you can incense, but Nyx and Elizabeth are the only enemies with true 99 across all stats

[hollow trail]

higher level enemies will provide vanilla scale xp

same level and up to 4 above is regular, then gradually increasing

with a cap off of 4x at 13 levels above player

[iron pilot]

Would help, I just boosted my stats to shit using equips lol

[supple pewter]

Balls

[hollow trail]

[dreamy orchid]

who up mastering they quest rn

[inland crystal]

sorry im falling my night rn

[iron pilot]

What did they mean by this

[iron pilot]

Funny save I made for the meme (just archiving)

[balmy thistle]

the items one sounds extreme but I think this is a good way to make healers fill their role more

cause in the base game i never felt the need to use Yukari much

or Ken

and Im not getting the all hp and sp items one? Do you mean items that heal all of both?

[iron pilot]

You still get them but they're only usable outside of battle

Except the ones that have negative effects to them or the ones that are given as christmas presents

The battle only healing items are completely useless and as such, just sold for money

Same goes for revival beads

They're updated desc wise to reflect this too lol

From testing it's pretty much possible to beat the game even with those restrictions

[celest kindle]

Partly unrelated question, the (planned) no-items toggle is to get MQ to play like it is now right?

With some items being battle-only or dungeon-only

[iron pilot]

I don't think they'll add changes to the items apart from Fuuka guaranteeing you a cookie if you didn't get a christmas present

[ashen pulsar]

sexo

[iron pilot]

https://youtu.be/A6CZWPqbTK4

[native garden]

“All forms of revive except Recarm and Samarecarm has been removed”

“All HP and SP items have their effective cut by 50%, Soma has Full HP but 25% SP”

I know this mod is still in testing but I don’t know how to feel about these 2 changes

[iron pilot]

you have Ken amada as a crutch

lmfao

seriously though it's planned as a toggle so you can pick

[hollow trail]

it's way less impactful than you think and creates a ton of early game friction which is the point of a challenge mode

[hollow trail]

Not so sure about that at the moment because of how file merging is

(non existent)

[iron pilot]

zamn

I mean, it works tho

lmfao

[dreamy orchid]

Amada will save you

[hollow trail]

there is no amada in early game

you WILL use the Divine Grace Orobas

[native garden]

I know a hard mod is supposed to make things harder but a change like that can leave a bad taste in some people mouths. Especially the Soma nerf

[dreamy orchid]

but yeah like even without a dedicated healer or items in the party, several characters have healing skills

[hollow trail]

skill issue

[dreamy orchid]

mid, just use akipeako diarama

[native garden]

Ayyy, I used that during my console playthrough. Good times

[hollow trail]

soma isn't even usable in battle

[dreamy orchid]

akipeako and aigis healing skills will matter more which is chill

[hollow trail]

and it's HP only in a ton of megaten games

some it's even single target

[dreamy orchid]

add in p2ep soma

[hollow trail]

forgot what it did

[dreamy orchid]

in ep its full hp/sp heal and revive for everyone iirc

[native garden]

Heals everybody fully and removes status ailments

[hollow trail]

mid

[native garden]

Including death

[dreamy orchid]

fuuka has it but better in p3n

[iron pilot]

recarmdra Vasuki better

[hollow trail]

not having access to item heals and revives will be fine

just means there's more tension earlier on, and you can't use items that are literally stronger than your healer

[dreamy orchid]

yukari gets recarm and media stupid early in this game so no items is hardly the end of the world

[hollow trail]

and you get it before her

[dreamy orchid]

saki mitama with recarm

[iron pilot]

weird takoyaki's the goat

[dreamy orchid]

mid

[hollow trail]

Just realized

sh2's very hard dlc also gives you consumables

that you can't use

that's some troll shit

[native garden]

Reminds me of FF7R’s hard mode

[hollow trail]

Here's a dlc with a difficulty mode where items are disabled

it also comes with free items

LOL

cope

[native garden]

https://tenor.com/view/sweats-gif-25346666

[iron pilot]

you'll be fine

[dreamy orchid]

master quest's item restrictions are pretty soft anyways

[iron pilot]

I literally did it man

[dreamy orchid]

you're still able to use most items lol just not healing

[hollow trail]

I should make Liz steal your items like Yozora

have a life ointment? she'll use it on death

[native garden]

But can I use healing items outside of battle?

[dreamy orchid]

make liz kill you if she detects you used an item

[hollow trail]

loool

idk if i can

well

items are skills

might work

no wait

[dreamy orchid]

make her check for weird takoyaki then megidolaon you if you used it

[hollow trail]

some use actual skill ids

[native garden]

[hollow trail]

bro takoyaki is 100 hp

[dreamy orchid]

If you use Fuuka's Cookie you will be NUKED

[hollow trail]

who gaf

LMFAO

[iron pilot]

this implies Junpei does 5K damage

[dreamy orchid]

Akipeako competing with Fraudpei?

do full phys run of nyx doors

[iron pilot]

that'd be worse

Koro's condition kinda sucks

[dreamy orchid]

i wanna see it tho 😈

[dreamy orchid]

its good in base game

it'd suck in MQ though because his crit rate is shit

[iron pilot]

Bloody Charge
Mediarahan

how to make Yukari emulate Shinjiro

I can't do something similar with Koro

[dreamy orchid]

you don't really need bloody charge with koro tho lol

cus revolution is just that but better

[iron pilot]

I mean

it's better

with it

besides the idea is to drain HP safely without doing damage

so Yukari can heal and fill her condition

[dreamy orchid]

if you can make Koro have consistent crits then he will outpace her

Yukari charges her thing slower in boss fights

[iron pilot]

also it seems that it's optimal to only use Mediarahan regardless because low SP means faster charge

[dreamy orchid]

its not really relevant tho

its 3% faster

[iron pilot]

nah it is

it fills half the bar sometimes

[dreamy orchid]

oh nevermind

yukari gets 6% for it

in bosses

nah koro charges faster than her regardless in bosses

he gets 15% for just using a physical skill, then an extra 20% if it crits

[iron pilot]

eh you'll see what I mean, give me 5 hours

[dreamy orchid]

with apt pupil accessory he'll def outpace her

[iron pilot]

unironic strat

give Yukari charge herb

yeah it sounds dumb as fuck but it gives theurgia

lmfaoooo

also Koro can't get knocked down

at least, not in a satisfying way

[dreamy orchid]

why use charge herb for that

oracle gives you charge/concentrate for free

[iron pilot]

not that reliable, because of how it works

[dreamy orchid]

he can?

[iron pilot]

I uh

[dreamy orchid]

just take off the null light armour bro

use tarukabellion

[iron pilot]

yeah he can but he's dead last in the AI's selection

so you have to makarakarn the others so he's targeted

[dreamy orchid]

that also means he's less likely to die than yukari is tbf

and if she dies then bye bye theurgia charge

[iron pilot]

being knocked down is good tho

[iron pilot]

armor of light will save her, that and

[dreamy orchid]

though tbh

[iron pilot]

uh

at this level, the damage she takes won't be enough to kill if she's properly built

[dreamy orchid]

her having healing skills is nice, makes magic team comp more sustainable

phys team comp you probably wanna bring ken as well

which means someone is getting axed

[iron pilot]

Nah I'll just use the other 3

[dreamy orchid]

wouldn't no healing be a problem considering hp costs being raised

aigis diarahan op?

[iron pilot]

wdym I'm bringing a Lucifer with Salvation

[dreamy orchid]

healing with mc is cringe bro

[iron pilot]

it's honestly inevitable even with a healer in the comp

the healer can get dizzy and stuff

[dreamy orchid]

unshaken will amada

or insta-heal/null ailments accessory

null ailments probably the best pick

[iron pilot]

enduring soul

[dreamy orchid]

cus you can still get light boost/amp for him with weapon

[dreamy orchid]

he doesn't need it tbf

ailment cleanse is probably more helpful

[iron pilot]

you don't see the plan fr

anyways I'll just show it

70% charge in one go kinda funny fr

[inland crystal]

how did you know i used fuuka's cookie in my liz fight!?!??!?!?!?

[errant pumice]

This is funny out of context

[native garden]

Wait. If that clip was with master quest installed, then the mod wouldn’t require to start from a fresh save but it would be recommended in doing so?

[celest kindle]

Yeah i think starting fresh is a good idea

But you can technically install it at any time and it'll work

I think stuff like the skills you get for each character could be affected though

[native garden]

I was about to say. Considering how movesets are tied to your save (iirc), I could possibly risk bricking my vanilla save if I use my vanilla clear data to start master quest on NG+

[hollow trail]

no lol

also don't ng+ Master Quest, it invalidates the entire mod

unless you pick Merciless ig

[celest kindle]

Does the carry-over screw up the balance?

[dreamy orchid]

yes because you carry over your level lol

and all equips

[iron pilot]

Endgame wise though it'll work there

Seriously though you need to be on a fresh start of a savefile because of the party member skill changes

[dreamy orchid]

no?

just visit be blue one time

[iron pilot]

Yeah I don't think going in and out of vanilla is recommended to an end user

It's needlessly confusing and stuff

[dreamy orchid]

well if you turn the mod off and on then yeah its annoying

but you can def just convert a vanilla save file into a master quest one no problem unless its severely overleveled

[iron pilot]

Those 99 Bead Chain EX isn't going to disappear soon

[errant pumice]

I would recommend a fresh start if playing major difficulty mods/overhaul gameplay mechanics.

I think that should be the route just to get used to everything the mod changes instead of being on November and be like: “Damn, this is impossible and needs to be nerfed/buffed”

It takes a while to get used to a mod (assuming master quest will play majorly different than vanilla)

“Recommend” depending on the players, just the general audience probably. But there is people who adapt to stuff way quicker to others so it may not apply to everyone

[iron pilot]

Clearly they should Mod Menu Akihiko everytime they load a 1/31 savefile

[dreamy orchid]

nah no need to

akihiko already has debilitate in the base game, you just haven't discovered the secret way of unlocking it

[iron pilot]

They don't know charging gives theurgia......

Meovv clearly gave Akihiko charge for this reason

[dreamy orchid]

charging to use magic is the most batshit insane strategy yet

[iron pilot]

Charging Yukari for consistent AoE concentrate

Lmfao

Using bloody charge on protag for it too

Oh yeah I guess I'll do phys only Nyx

[dreamy orchid]

insane person

who are you bringing for phys party

[iron pilot]

Koro Aigis Junpei all have 800 HP

They'll be fine without karns for sure

It's one playthrough too so technically possible in MQ lmfao