#Persona 4 High Frequency - Rebalancing affinities and aesthetics
319 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)
As for what base power magic should be, unmodded Severe magic sits at 200, Primal Force sits at 1100, to make Severe magic on par with Primal Force it'd have to be around 300
the ×1.5 and ×1.25 are Amp and Boost multipliers
Yup, that is true
And yea, that kinda adjustment would be done, basically
Hm, what about the bosses and all that
In school rn so I only have time to think about readjusting skills
Also as a little suggestion: change Primal Force's skill description to say Massive instead of Severe, since it's significantly stronger than other Severe skills
There we go
Since Almighty can't benefit from Boost/Amp or Crits, I also recommend significantly buffing Morning Star and Black Viper so they can be roughly on-par with Primal Force but still give Primal Force overall more potential (cuz of the crit)
Top to bottom:
-Crit Primal Force
-Hypothetical adjusted Morning Star
-Hypothetical adjusted Black Viper
as for the main Megido line, that'd definitely also need to be adjusted, but not nearly as much since they aren't exclusive
Reason why I'm suggesting buffs for magic btw is because P4 is already full of damage spongey bosses so it's better to buff what's underpowered than to nerf what's overpowered
Yeah, I knew that
It's why one of the universal changes listed would be a buff to magic
Cuz it absolutely not being on par woth Physical was verh strange
yeah
I did still lower some bosses' HP, mostly considering what would typically be available
Plus you're giving some late-game bosses even more HP anyway from what my quick glance deduced so might as well give the player more power
Yea
Late-game bosses still had too little HP
Which is kimda funny considering how spomgy the bosses are early on
As for party member moveset changes:
-Give Yosuke both Charges. He's already practically a Red Mage and him not having Charges just makes him worse
-Move Divine Grace from Yukiko to Teddie. Teddie needs it more due to his generally lacking SP reserves + being more focused on full support whereas Yukiko is a hybrid of magic offense and support
-Have Naoto have more shield skills (like the ones from Digital Devil Saga). Her unique skill makes it seem like she'd be good as a party member designed for defense.
-Give Chie more Ice skills, even if she's generally more phys-oriented, her lack of higher tier magic kinda makes her lackluster for normal encounters (not that they weren't already sweeped by solo protag but y'know)
Yea, I agree, she deserves a better Ice kit
I was also considering giving Naoto Sukuna-Hikona's skills from SMT IV Apocalypse (Infernal Hail and Needlestorm)
That could work
Infernal Hail: Heavy Ice damage to all foes. Decrease Attack
Needlestorm: Heavy Wind damage to all foes. Decrease Accuracy
Yeah I think we might have a more rounded party overall with these changes
I agree
Obviously can't forget piercing skills cuz the breakers are gone
And Kusumi-no-Okami does get to keep her gimmick, even if her resistances got downgraded to nulls to work with the way I want the Pierce passives to work
Also definitely make it so phys doesn't do jack shit to her
The lack of Phys Break in P4G just meant you were forced to use skills that sucked in nearly every other instance in the game
So you mean...remove her Phys null? Or am I misunderstanding
Nah just add a way to make phys hurt her (I assume you're already adding Pierce tho so that shouldn't be a problem)
Now added skill progression for Yosuke, Chie, and Yukiko
Somewhat unrelated but
@sour sandal Not sure if you've played P2IS or not but a friend of mine has done a lot of work rebalancing skills for a P2IS PSX hardtype-style rebalance, I was wondering if you could help with enemies and bosses
I could try, but I may be a bit less effective as I am less knowledgable on P2IS balancing, but if there is a server we can discuss this in, sign me up
@covert marlin
There's a group DM if that works
That is fine
...
yo i'd be interested in this too
Lemme repost the link then
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JlUZqxZhf9PxB03ZgeNLiVFMr2Kwf72iRYFrbfdS1DY/edit?usp=drivesdk There you go
UNIVERSAL CHANGES: Hama and Mudo now do damage instead of instakill All normal enemies and minibosses are now SMT demons Izanagi-no-Okami can now be registered into the Compendium Base power of magic skills adjusted to compete with physical skills Primal Force now specifies it does 'massive' dam...
oh yeah i saw that in the other thread
only thing that sticks out to me as something i'm unsure is the instakill moves since i don't think it's possible for p4 modding to specifically code instakills not to instant bosses
It actually is possible on P3
Because the way it works is that Hama/Mudo are skills that do not inflict damage (as the calculation for it is kept empty) but rather inflict a special ailment (namely the instakill)
Yea
Since they work in a similar fashion
so chances are, Hama/Mudo on P4 also work like this
And just have their damage formula kept empty
The change is relatively simple
Just disable the special ailment affliction, adjust the accuracy and put in a base power for the skill
and it might be possible for bosses to be immune to instant kills while still taking damage from moves like Death Flies
huh
Yes
Since you just would be making them immune to that special ailment
Anyway, we may discuss some more om the changes tommorow
Also, I had confirmed that you can make skills do damage AND inflict a debuff
Which makes Fang Breaker and the like possible
At least on P3
is there a way to have a second accuracy value for the instakill effect is the question
i would assume so
because the phys ailment moves don't constantly inflict you with their ailment
thinking about it it would probably be easier to implement then like
pierce
Possibly
Anything else?
Cuz I do wonder if I did the bosses and forced encounters justice
I mean i'm not an expert balancer but it seems pretty interesting
I would offer to help make the mod but I kinda don't have the tools necessary
I see. Interesting
Anything else?
Hello everyone. So I wonder, have I done all the bosses and forced encounters justice. I want to be sure as a just in case scenario
i have some criticisms
nevermind
hmm
actually, why'd you remove change teddie to be light-oriented instead of ice
and i would include a Dark Equivalent of Judgement Light
to put them on the same tier
i think pierce is a tad too oversaturated
if every boss has pierce it makes resistances worthless so i'd cut back on at least a few
seems to be a lot of smtiv:a inspiration here and while that's good because SMTIV:A has the best combat system in megaten there is still some things i would do differently
also what's up with naoto learning Ice and Wind boost and amp but not learning a singular Ice or Wind move
a problem with the balance of the second-tier moves is that you can speedrun the SLs i think
if it was able to be coded that like
you learn it at a certain level but only when you have evolved that persona (and being over that level when the persona evolves will auto-learn it) kinda like how p3 works would make it better i think
kamui is the only one that doesn't have this problem because teddie's is automatic
Since Hama/Mudo now deal damage, perhaps you could have party members specialize in either of them so that no two party members use the same element?
You added Amagidyne 
see
thing is I do not think that's necessarily needed
making Light and Dark damage-dealer elements kinda balances itself in terms of party roles
Naoto's Hamaon and Mudoon now being useful outside of random encounters
and Teddie using ice where Chie uses it was fine to begin with honestly since Chie's magic damage is miserably bad
chie hard-specs into physical moves anyways, Teddie was always more the Ice Guy
I think the idea here was to make Teddie the Light party member and Naoto the Dark party member, right?
I also think some of this is a bit poorly explained, like some of the new moves just are mentioned with no prior explanation
Why would you give Kanji an even bigger punch? I don't get it.
think this is the big thing
they should be relegated to endgame mostly
like in the SMTIII it was only phys and pure endgame, balanced mainly for the lucifer battle
in SMTIV:A it was mainly endgame, with the passive itself being reserved for the final dungeon on the protagonist (Awakened Power) and a select few demons gaining the pierce passives
Impaler's Animus and Will of (Element)
are basically pierce but it requires a turn and sp cost
which (one of) those being distributed earlier wouldn't be too bad
but uhhhh i don't think coding those in would be possible but neither is pierce in general so fun concepting
Naoto has her exclusives
Needlestorm and Infernal Hail
which is a dark move
ok this is what
It wasn't really just Phys, but rather everything that was Strength-based
this
is referring to
like needlestorm and infernal hail are never mentioned prior and honestly i thought needle storm was a phys move
by just looking at the name
Hmmm
yeah i meant phys as in str moves in general
Yeah, I guess
Also, Pierce passives in this case are not accessible before Level 80+
i mean
And do not go past Repel or Drain, theoretically
well that isn't explained
Lemme recheck
It IS specified
pierce piercing everything
In the New Skills section, it is clearly stated that they ignore Resist and Null
ah
my bad
i just kinda assumed that like
they would work how they do in all smt games
but uh
i think the pierce oversaturation still applies
like half the bosses you rebalanced have pierce
most of which are before any non-yu party member can even get drain or repel
that basically makes resistances obsolete
Shadow Naoto is the first real boss to pierce resistances
I could SWEAR i saw more
There technically is Bifrons, but he is a miniboss ally for Dantalion, and I guess Leanan Sidhe before Rise
aight yeah
But it's only those two and Rise, and Rise is a gimmick boss
i would still count minibosses
rise is a gimmick so i won't count her but idk about naoto
naoto's like
a level 50
on the scale
and still several dungeons away from any sort of drain or repel
Alright, removed the Pierce passives from Leanan Sidhe and Bifrons
pierce is best used on late-game bosses to prevent resistance gimmicking
Also removed it from Naoto and put Blight in
No, I mean like in the doc, rn
Surprisingly, you can unless the boss has loads of Almighty attacks, which isn't until the very end
Shido could be cheesed before they gave him a Megidolaon spam trigger
i mean
most of the time
you'll have other party members
and all party members in modern persona games have entirely different sets of resistances
you can't exactly just bring three phys and fire resisting demons to say
a surt battle
for example
because in modern persona very few resist phys and you're never gonna have enough fire resists to make a full party
Yeah, true, though generally when the protag is not in any danger of dying, that is oftentimes good enough
pierce i think is a good option for later game bosses so their heavy hitting elemental or phys attacks can go through
Yeah, now Kunino-Sagiri is the first boss with one
for kunino sagiri i don't think pierce works on his boss design
his whole gimmick is constantly shifting between elements using quad coverage
really pierce on bosses kinda has the issue of how do you make it not overly binary
Yeah, but as you can imagine...
Another 👏 boss 👏 where they said 👏 "What if it had all 4 elements"
true
but i'd say
it works on kunino-sagiri specifically
because of quad coverage
i would rather axe other "4 elements" bosses
I mean, I guess. I'll edit that a bit later tho
And I axed other bosses in particular
Ameno-Sagiri and Izanami
Izanami is now basically just her IVA self on steroids
i heavily disagree with this btw
i guess it's trying to prevent fear into insta
because of the two turn
but i would honestly rather just rework the AI so he can't go for ghastly wail on the same turn as a fear-inducing move
Adachi already was quite bugged tbh
or scrap two turn altogether
Some moves he has just are neved getting used in his normal moveset
I think he has, like, Maragidyne and Mabufudyne, but his AI will never use them
I definitely think the core part of his boss Design should involve necessitating keeping fear off in fear (
) of ghastly wail
however outside that gimmick i'm not sure
there should definitely be more to the boss to keep it from being a simple binary game of spamming Salvation (if you have it) or alternating between amrita/me patra and a mass healer
actually here's my pitch
Adachi has Magatsu Izanagi, have him use a modified version of Cross Slash to fish for crits
it would be similar to p5's cross slash (maybe with the damage scaled back a tad) but it would have a high crit rate
you could potentially give him a crit-boosting passive
Not a bad idea
Just reviving the thread is all
Persona 4 High Frequency - Rebalancing affinities and aesthetics
so i'm thinking about what'd happen if you took all skills that were in both P3 and P4 and just took the P4 versions and gave them their P3 base powers
obviously boost+amp severe magic still doesn't outdamage hassou tobi
(red = severe magic, purple = hassou tobi)
great condition (or however it'd get the ×2 boost in P4) vorpal blade doesn't (this time Hassou Tobi is blue and Vorpal Blade is red)
out of curiosity I halved Hassou Tobi's base power and now Boost+Amp Severe magic with P3 base power slightly outdamages (assuming no crits)
Halved base power Hassou Tobi still outdamages P4 Primal Force though
I think P3 in general just had higher damage values which may be why P4 bosses feel way spongier
because it's very clear that P3 and P4 use different variations of the same formula (P3 is 7.1×√([atk÷def]×pow), P4 is 5×√([atk÷def]×pow), meaning even assuming same base power in stats, P3 skills deal more than P4 skills)
????
was just scrolling through and this caught my eye
i am absolutely for making kusumi-no-okami have more hp since her fight is pretty short but i'm not sure about the whole repel to null thing
it feels counterintuitive to hell just the flavor of it
This is mostly because breakers got removed
And the idea is that Pierce passives do not go past Repel
Hence why I had to put her affinities to nulls
Why was the OP deleted? Which post explains this concept now?
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuh
Over here
Now, I wanna make a confession - I think making this mod would be easier than making the P3 mod
Mostly because there is no fusion spell-related BS I need to look out for
huh i could swear i explained how to not deal with fusion spell cutins at all to you
like fully detailed instructions
About that...I have no clue where animations are stored and all that jank
you could try looking for them yourself
you can unpack the game and then check the files
theres also amicitia wiki to help with that
you cant expect all info to either be spoonfed or nonexistant lmao
I did unpack, but still nothing that potentially pertains to animations
your p3p umd0 folder\skill\
it really is as easy as reading and trying to do some work yourself before asking
Wait...no shot that's how animations are kept
So all I need to do is rename those files to the ID of the skill I wanna assign them to? That's it?
Yea, no
I just tested and it does not work
I tried it with Jack Bufula, it still has the same animation as usual as well as the cut-in
oh my god
the .pacs you see here are where both models and animations are stored
every single skill has an ID in hex
that hex id is the filename of the .pac you want
so basically just get your debug/unused skill, check its id in hex
then
get the .pac for that skill (yes, eventho its unused a .pac for it should still exist)
Okay, go on
copy that filename, then dupe the existing skill's pac (the one you wanna copy its animation from) and then change its filename to the existing debug one
then
in amicitia, open up the .pac and rename everything inside to be correct too
so to be the right hex id
when youre done the debug skill will have the exact same animation and model as the existing skill
and then you can go and edit the stats and shit
Wait, so, in this case, I take the animation of Bufula and rename it to the ID of a debug skill?
what are you even trying to do again?
Make it so I can either:
A: Add an animation to a dummy skill
B: Have a fusion spell animation without the cut-in (important for Antichthon and such)
all dummy skills already have animations as ive said
if you wanna do A
then just do what i said, get the .pac for the skill with the animation you wanna copy, dupe it, and make its filename the hex id of the skill you wanna copy animations to
then open in amicitia and rename everything inside
like i said
you can just do it and if it doesnt work then too bad yk
I do use 010 for hex editing, as a note
thats good but 010 was never mentioned?
Eh, whatever
nor was any hex editing
ive done this multiple times
So I don't really hold out hope that the mod will be finished
this exact process just a little altered works to even put p3p skill animations into p4g
I need to go for 3 hours
Well, I will say this...dummy skills apparently use the Zio animation with no sound effect
That's...kinda awkward
...Hmmm
Hey question. Do I need to set a textures directory or something when it comes to unpacking, cuz if so, that's gonna be very awkward due to testing and whatnot
?
its very random which one they use
since theyre debug they usually just take some random unrelated anim
doesnt really matter
Yea, that's a problem
We can discuss the issue tommorow
It's getting late for me now
...no it isnt??????
is bro even following the steps i laid out for him
...
youre literally going to be replacing the animation
it does not matter which one it has
I feel like the dumbest man on earth for not knowing how to assign an animation to a dummy skill
i gave you detailed instructions if you're not willing to read or follow them then im sorry but that's your problem
WAIT, I THINK I KNOW WHERE THE PROBLEM CAME FROM, @jolly roost. I did not set a texture directory!
you didn't set a what now
were you doing this with the psp version or smth
Yea
I only have the PSP version
💀
That aside, let's actually get back to discussing P4 for this one
Cuz we went on about P3P issues
Well, from the looks of it, me testing this mod will be damn near impossible
Question - what skills do you think should be Strength-based magic skills in your opinion
Heaven's Blade should be St-based Light tbh