#Physical attack costs

66 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

modest grove
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The balancing on costs for physical style attacks in persona games has always seemed off to me

as an example - level 19 fox (220 hp, 121 mp) giant slice costs 10% of his health, Bufu costs 3% of his mp
Giant slice will always cost 10% of his health, Bufu will get cheaper and cheaper as he levels(in terms of percentage)
while giant slice IS stronger(ignoring resistances) that cost makes it never worth

Would it be possible to either adjust the costs, or ideally switch them to flat costs instead of percentage based

opaque veldt
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Main reason why that's the case is that HP is easy to restore via spells and items while SP is less so

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I uh, don't see why it would need to be changed

fluid cloak
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magic is typically where you're allowed to exploit weaknesses more frequently as well

modest grove
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That's kinda my point, magic is almost always the correct choice except for those rare enemies weak to physical
even if you can't actually hit weakness, you're better served buffing or debuffing (or shooting your gun) than casting say, bloodbath

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enemy damage is high enough, on higher difficulties, that willingly sacrificing 20% of your max hp(not even current hp, of your max) is begging to get knocked out

fluid cloak
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HP cost is already low cost, the sp used to heal back greatly extends how long you can continue using them in battle, not to mention physical attackers already generally being bulkier than magic users, so it's likely you will need to be healing with or without a phys user anyway

modest grove
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Healing only comes into play if they survive to the next turn, and more importantly that's another turn lost
meaning the damage comparison is not 1 physical attack vs 1 magical attack, its 1 physical vs 2 magical

fluid cloak
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the phys user isnt the only one taking damage, if they're taking enough damage to be in kill zone they needed healed with or without a phys move being used, but enemies don't exclusively deal in single target

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unless you mean their weakness being targeted, but in that case well duh, doesn't matter if they're a phys damage dealer

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consider also the intended mechanic of sp conservation, over the course of a dungeon the phys users will use significantly less sp

opaque veldt
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This is a pretty big bruh moment

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You have healers in the party, if you're really worried about your phys dealers dying, the healer can take care of them in the same set of turns. The game's on a team basis, really

fluid cloak
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^

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you can heal between encounters as well, which are what phys conceptually excels in

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and for bosses... you probably need to be healing anyway unless you're significantly overleveled

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with the exception of the protagonist, who is generally always bulky (for obvious reasons), the phys dealers will typically have higher endurance and hp than magic counterparts, kinda straight up harder to take them down even if they do reduce own hp unless you're consistently dipping below half or something

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it's not like they have healing and support roles for no reason

opaque veldt
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I'd only say this is somewhat fair to point out if we're talking DDS

A game with almost 50% HP costs in endgame and no arms master to speak of. But it's so high damaging that it can be worth it to use anyways

fluid cloak
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persona typically caps at 25%, you even still get arms master as well

opaque veldt
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Now that you mention it

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The worst I've seen in Megaten is 45% in DDS and Nocturne

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For persona, 33% in P5S

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But yeah main games' worst is 25%

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Oddly, P3's 21%

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PQ being in EO's system has fixed HP costs but it's so bullshit strong there lmao

trim harbor
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unless enemy nulls phys/gun since late game u get access to phys skills with high crit rate and those are broken

opaque veldt
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depends on the game

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in persona's case, magic is always better all throughout in P3

phys in 4

bullshit for both in 5

fluid cloak
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nah phys is semi-competitive in early midgame p3

fluid cloak
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Untying mdef from tec/mag also greatly helped phys, honestly probably part of the reason phys is so bad in p3, to compensate for newsona all-defensive endurance and sp advantages

opaque veldt
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perhaps

fluid cloak
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and then they realized that was a bad idea and overcompensated in 4

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and made p4 phys even better than p3 magic was proportionally

tall hearth
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it's the press turn and one more systems that benefit phys the most since crits are no longer just a damage boost, they grant extra turns as well

opaque veldt
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It made picking just magic more preferable

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Like uh

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DDS

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And DeSu

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In DDS, Ma boosts fucking

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3 things lmao

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DeSu, similar thing. Apart from bosses repelling phys sometimes

tall hearth
opaque veldt
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Me when you still put a decent chunk of Ma points in a phys only run in DDS

tall hearth
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yeah

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it's either that or you get a bunch of resistance passives

opaque veldt
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Not sure...

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The guy I know of didn't know the thingy with Ma in DDS so he just did it with St and Vi

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It kicked his dick in so hard lol

tall hearth
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regardless as far as Persona is concerned, 3 is really the only game where phys genuinely sucks

opaque veldt
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Ehhh I wouldn't say suck

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It has some merits

tall hearth
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ok true

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more like underwhelming

opaque veldt
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It's just not broken

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Yeah

tall hearth
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Even P2IS which has a heavy magic bias still has really good phys damage (Photon Cannon)

opaque veldt
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I honestly think the game's pretty balanced overall, all things considered

Compared to the rest of the series, at least

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It's not IV A levels at all though

celest galleon
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What game

fluid cloak
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the magic users are (with akihiko exception because he is our god) much more brittle