acoustic crest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNcxJxEvjS4
this is the closest I've found to a true z1 vs steam deck comparison
but he only really mentions that the performance is within 10 fps of eachother at 15w... but never mentions the benefits of full windows titles, the better display, or the fact that the z1 can go to higher wattages
trail sundial
do keep in mind
this was when it was 699
top left video tho
pretty sure it was down low at that time
slate laurel
this was when it was 699
599*
acoustic crest
the UFD tech video mentions that it drops to 400 a lot of the time
trail sundial
I thought Z1E was 799?
slate laurel
nope
acoustic crest
the z1e was always 700
slate laurel
always been 600/700
acoustic crest
600 on sale but the z1e doesn't go on sale near as much as the z1 does
trail sundial
still laughing that my friend got a z1e ally, traded an xbox one for it
slate laurel
z1e was just on sale this past weekend, but yeah z1 almost always 200 off
rose canopy
I don't think Z1 is a waste, at $339 open box through BestBuy.com, that's a steal for it. Especially for the people who think the Ayaneo Next Lite is a good deal.
acoustic crest
yeah lol
even at 400 with the next lite at 350 most the time after the early bird price
slate laurel
The ally screen kicks ass really
acoustic crest
kinda a hard deal for the next lite
slate laurel
just needs to be more comfy
I guess as people keep saying hte next lite makes more sense maybe for non NA people
acoustic crest
yeah
tho the rog ally is quite available for people not in na isn't it?
maybe not as cheap but still very available
slate laurel
Not sure, though I think in some cases significantly more expensive
acoustic crest
I know for sure the steam deck is pretty much out of the question for anyone not in NA or like europe
rose canopy
lol I wouldn't
acoustic crest
You guys are making me want to buy a z1 ally now
if I had 300 I would
rose canopy
x86 is the one spot where you always just want the best in, cause everything else feels bad.
slate laurel
lol I wouldn't
IF those damn corners didn't shove into my palms.
rose canopy
IF those damn corners didn't shove into my palms.
That's why the Claw was so damn exciting, it's so comfy.
slate laurel
The skullnco grip helps but not by much (for the corners, the backside is better) and yeah the weight
rose canopy
I have to use the Skull grips with my Ally, but the weight added is a lot.
slate laurel
I thought about cutting up a skullnco grip and somehow only having the part on the handles
acoustic crest
IF those damn corners didn't shove into my palms.
there's gotta be some 3d printed thing that smooths them out?
or maybe even a rubber skin
slate laurel
there's gotta be some 3d printed thing that smooths them out?
You have NO IDEA. I have spent HOURS in fusion360
There are grips that other people have made but they are usually comically large
acoustic crest
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1551759432/asus-rog-ally-portable-grip-case? these are goofy af lmao
slate laurel
acoustic crest
bet they work tho
acoustic crest
I'm looking on etsy and I see what you mean with them being too large
slate laurel
acoustic crest
you could always just shave them down and 3d print some cover for where they were shaven down 
slate laurel
I got close with my design but ran out of steam
Decided to chase after other devices, but they all have tradeoffs
acoustic crest
how hard is it for x86 manufacturers to just not put a tradeoff on their handheld
slate laurel
Well I think until battery tech or cpu efficiency takes leaps that's impossible
karmic marten
yup
karmic marten
at this point its all about which trade odd matters to you the most
slate laurel
The legion go would be so much better if they had just tapered the controllers near your palm. Same with the ally and that pointy bit, just needed to be rolled off a bit more.
acoustic crest
As far as whey they release horrible ergo devices... idk
thats what I mean, that huge ass legion go with daggers for corners
slate laurel
I don't understand the ANGULAR GAMER A E S T H E T I C
karmic marten
Well I think until battery tech or cpu efficiency takes leaps that's impossible
thats pretty much what the valve hw folks said about potential Deck 2
tbh my gf kinda uses LeGo as a tablet at work , sometimes playing with 8Bitdo SN30 under the table 😄
the "joycons" basically stay in the case since the start
acoustic crest
I think the joycons are a good idea like in theory, but in reality the legion go is better as just a tablet pc
slate laurel
Mine just arrived a few days ago
The way I play it is with the kickstand slightly out and balanced on my knee
so that I don't have to push my palms in it or support the full weight
But it would be inifinitely more comfortable if they just rolled the bottom corner a bit.
Since they are detachable it would be awesome if they released another option
karmic marten
and she was planning to buy some surface tablet for double the price and we found pretty nice openbox deal that made it even cheaper than ally is here
acoustic crest
as far as tablet pcs go there's the microsoft surface lines but thsoe are all a lot more expensive for not even equivalent performance (tho tbf bigger screen and thinner device)
and there's also the rog flow z13 but those are either equivalent for less performance or a LOT more for a lot more performance
karmic marten
yup pretty much
golden leaf
I don't think Z1 is a waste, at $339 open box through BestBuy.com, that's a stea...
Oh yeah. no contest with Z1 > 4500u/4800u. RDNA and Zen 4. Also the z1 has avx 512. Intel remove that in Meteor Lake. Which helps with ps3 emulation.
latest Z1 reviews are just nnot out there. It is just hate videos.
acoustic crest
I don't stand for the z1 hate 😤
slate laurel
Maybe the Ally 2 will answer your prayers...
acoustic crest
I don't see a reason for ally 2 until like a z2 extreme releases with whatever the next rdna 4 cores are like
karmic marten
these big hw corps will ultimately just add these handhelds into their yearly laptop lineups
acoustic crest
idk I can see them spacing them out for new processor releases
karmic marten
so there will be some for of Ally/LeGo 2024 by the end of the year
slate laurel
so there will be some for of Ally/LeGo 2024 by the end of the year
Lego 2024 with better controllers still compatible with the OG??? plz?
lol
karmic marten
we will see
karmic marten
Lego 2024 with better controllers still compatible with the OG??? plz?
especially if the controllers could be separately purchasable
slate laurel
I don't see a reason for ally 2 until like a z2 extreme releases with whatever t...
Asus India’s vice president for consumer and gaming PC, Arnold Su, told Techlusive in an interview that the second-gen handheld is “most likely” coming this year.
“We most likely will launch a second-generation [handheld gaming console] this year,” said Su.
slate laurel
especially if the controllers could be separately purchasable
That's what I'm sayin!
acoustic crest
so its just gonna use the same processor? or is amd making a z2 that is just an 8840u... or amd is saving rdna 4 igpus to come out with the z2 first!!!!
(no way they are doing that)
karmic marten
they could just do some minor changes
aka dadding it to their usual laptop lineup as separate subcategory
acoustic crest
I guess if they just smooth out the corners, fix the sd card issue, maybe better battery life at the same price it'd be good enough
slate laurel
Screen doesn't need fixing, slightly bigger battery, better ergo, sd card that works, yup.
Joysticks with a bit more resistance...
acoustic crest
keep the exact same screen I'd be happy, but maybeee just maybe possibly if they want to go above and beyond oled?
perchance
slate laurel
We all want that but... no oled in that form factor exists... yet... as far as we know...
I mean if they dropped a 7-8" oled with 120hz vrr I would be camping outside best buy to buy it lol
but unlikely, I think.
acoustic crest
that is if they do yearly releases instead of spacing them out a bit
if they space them out I'm expecting big performance uplifts
acoustic crest
I'm talking like not releasing an ally 2 until 2025 maybe 2026
slate laurel
ah
acoustic crest
if they do that performance is a big factor
karmic marten
tbh what i want from nextgen x86/Wibdows devices isnt really "performance uplift"
but more like battery, ergo, screen, cooling , better low W perf ... that the 30W+ "plugged" perf
acoustic crest
in my dreams they would add thunderbolt 4 egpu support rather than being locked to the asus ones... but lets be honest there's no point for asus to do that
slate laurel
with a bit bigger battery
acoustic crest
not many people are complaining about it and locking them to the asus ones definitely sells a few egpus
slate laurel
I could never justify the price of an xgm
especially owning a desktop. I guess if it's your ONLY pc and you have it by the tv or something. But still the prices are ludicrous
karmic marten
these kind of moves are kinda ontraproductive for overal market
acoustic crest
if they were the same price as the desktop models I would get it. but the xgm's are not even a little more expensive, they're a LOT more expensive
slate laurel
you can almost build a whole gaming tower with the same performance for the price of the xgm alone
acoustic crest
500 for a 6800xt, like 900 for a 6850m
slate laurel
If you can even buy one
Right now I only see the 4090 for $2k on Best buy
For that price you can build a desktop with a 4070 and buy an ally and use moonlight lol
And still have some leftover money possibly
acoustic crest
For that price you can build a desktop with a 4070 and buy an ally and use moonl...
shit you can build a desktop with a 7900xtx
or 4080 super
for 2k
slate laurel
Yeah. I don't get it.
You could buy a Z1 ally and 7 years of geforce now ultimate
lol
acoustic crest
https://www.newegg.com/onyx-grey-lenovo-legion-pro-7-16irx8h-82wq005cus-gaming/p/N82E16834840207
for the price of a z1e and a 4090 mobile I guess it adds up to a 4090 laptop so it kinda makes sense
but at the sametime this has much less cpu performance, and its nowhere near the whole package size and everything
I don't get why they don't offer cheaper options
why is it ONLY the 4090
dense gull
I'm still excited to check it out! 😅 Hopefully MSI and Intel pick up the slack. 
I wasn't optimistic about performance from when we checked it out at CES. 😭
wow, I leave for an hour or two and it's crazy busy in here 🤣
slate laurel
wow, I leave for an hour or two and it's crazy busy in here 🤣
Everyone has been curious about the intel chip so you stirred the pot
dense gull
Oh yea, I knew these numbers were going to be interesting for more than just the X1 
rose canopy
I'm still excited to check it out! 😅 Hopefully MSI and Intel pick up the slack...
Couldn't you just have fudged some numbers
dense gull
Couldn't you just have fudged some numbers
I checked them way too many times 🤣 That was an exhausting video to make
golden leaf
feral depot
Definitely will be interesting to see how well Intel improves performance through drivers.
marble eagle
even at 400 with the next lite at 350 most the time after the early bird price
It'll start at $300 when it comes back next month.
And Ally wise, the extreme is available more, but more expensive than the USA, $700 in the UK.
The Z1 non-extreme generally isn't sold in most countries.
trail sundial
was never an early bird price, just an early bird SKU
caused a bit of confusion, was very confused about it too
rose canopy
This $457 in the UK? - https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-Handheld-Processor-Touchscreen-Graphics/dp/B0CKJ7WZ6Y
can't tell what currency it's using
trail sundial
sterling pounds yeah
aka 577 USD approx
used to be 630 USD
jfc y'all I'm moving to the UK
sand jewel
550 pounds is like 700 usd
More like just over a quarter ton.
trail sundial
This handheld is so disappointing I keep forgetting it's not even out yet
you keep thinking it released and immediately got forgotten?
marble eagle
I love how the hype for this device is so low, preorders have opened, and no-one has even noted it.
rose canopy
Still take this over the Next Lite 10/10 times.
marble eagle
It's in a slightly different price range 🤔
I think I'll stick to playing TotK on the Next Lite 
rose canopy
Oh I thought we were talking about under hyped devices, my mind just instantly goes to Ayaneo.
marble eagle
To be fair, the Next Lite did have zero hype. It just sort of got announced, shipped a few weeks later 🙂
plucky stirrup
next lite has an agreeable level of pc-gaming/emulation power and ergo
marble eagle
Aye. I am loving mine. Plays TotK well, does PC games well, I've got Wiimotes and a Wii guitar working in it for the kids to mess around with....great fun.
grizzled blade
I love how the hype for this device is so low, preorders have opened, and no-one...
Still no preorders in the US. Regardless it will have hype if it can outdo the rog ally in performance and battery life. The form factor and size is great but battery is the biggest weakness for me.
marble eagle
Still no preorders in the US. Regardless it will have hype if it can outdo the r...
I think pretty much every x86 of a similar level of power will beat the Rog Ally when comparing the same game. 40wh battery is really small. Even the Next Lite has a 47wh battery.
That said, even with the Rog Ally, the battery isn't awful if you are not pushing it. It'll do 3 hours 20 mins on GC paper mario at 3x res. Which isn't awful really. It's true you need to use a low TDP to get semi decent battery life, but the thing is so powerful it can do quite a lot on a low TDP.
Performance....I mean, I know nothing other than what the Phawx etc say, but it does seem like compatiblity will be sketchy with this chip.
grizzled blade
I think pretty much every x86 of a similar level of power will beat the Rog Ally...
Oh yeah for sure. Mine is pretty much stuck on 10w TDP and battery life is acceptable all things considered. In the next generation of these handhelds I’d love to see the ally get an oled with vrr and use the extra room for a larger battery. And better thumb sticks lol
slate laurel
Oh yeah for sure. Mine is pretty much stuck on 10w TDP and battery life is accep...
I'd even settle for same screen, just get rid of the corner that pokes your palm, slightly more grip on the back, bigger battery, sticks with more resistance.
Fine tuning
marble eagle
Seriously though. Is anyone actually buying the claw?
I mean not for YouTube content, but because they think it's worth the money?
rose canopy
<--
marble eagle
Well, I hope it works out well for you 🙂
trail sundial
x86 is the one spot where you always just want the best in, cause everything els...
aged like milk
this is the x86 equivalent to buying the RGB20SX
rose canopy
this is the x86 equivalent to buying the RGB20SX
Next lite is the x86 equivalent to the r36s
This is like buying a 405m
trail sundial
eh
don't see the point of buying a device that's been shown multiple times to perform like shit
the one time ETA's measurements were right 
rose canopy
This whole discord exists because people buy devices that perform like shit
The most active channels are ewaste devices
But also my excitement for this device is because I've actually held it and used it, so I'm in the small minority that knows what I'll be getting
rose canopy
I hope the review is better than the ACE one.
Certainly can't be as broken as that thing was
tight coyote
I usually agree with joey on everything, but I disagree that you would want the absolute best x86. Mostly from a perspective of rapid depreciating value. You know what actually feels bad? The device you paid a lot of money for losing half its value less than 2 years later
Buying something one or two generations old is the sweet spot
MSI Claw is basically a slightly more ergonomic Ally, with a good screen and good buttons and controls. The only disappointing aspect is the Intel chip which makes it such a shame
Imagine if it had a z1e in it, with that larger battery and better ergos
plucky stirrup
If they sold this with no storage or ram, I'd be cool with it
I really wish they sold barebones units.
golden silo
I usually agree with joey on everything, but I disagree that you would want the ...
Imagine buying a Next for $1200-1400 and seeing them go on sale for $350(5825u ver) less than 2 years later. Then they make new ones with what is essentially the same chip(4800u ver) for $399. MEanwhile you can get an Ally for like $500 on sale, that has got to sting.
next peak
to be fair the next was considered a waste of money even back then lol
it was a handheld that released during a transitional period that offered nothing new
tired scarab
I'm still interested (after a massive discount)
tight coyote
I mean you can already get the Ally for that amount
For this to be interesting it has to be like 400 or less
marble eagle
Imagine buying a Next for $1200-1400 and seeing them go on sale for $350(5825u v...
The original Next is still more powerful than the Next Lite's. So it's got that. You were always paying a big premium for something slightly more powerful than the Steam Deck (on the CPU side), but double the price.
marble eagle
I usually agree with joey on everything, but I disagree that you would want the ...
One thing the Next Lite has really brought home to me is this point. It still plays all the PC games, just at lowest graphics settings for the latest AAA. Emulation wise, it's only at PS3/360 emu that more advanced systems can play games it can't, and most of those consoles have PC versions that run better than emulation anyway.
Pay more and get a better system, yeah. But the extra money isn't exactly unlocking entire new consoles to emulate, or hundreds of new PC games.
rose canopy
I usually agree with joey on everything, but I disagree that you would want the ...
Guess it depends on the person, but I'm not buying anything thinking what its value will be in two years. That value could be zero and I'd still buy the same thing. I'd take two years of an ROG Ally with zero value after over two years with a Next Lite and getting my money back. I couldn't imagine buying any x86 device where I'm willingly wanting to deal with all the concessions in that handheld. But that's me, I'm not looking to play games on low, 30fps. Going by sales, majority agree.
marble eagle
It would be interesting to see what would happen if Valve or Asus or whoever decided to release a handheld at a lower price point with older specs.
Perhaps that will be a legacy of Valve keeping the the same APU for 4 years or so. By the end of the life of the console, more people start thinking they don't need the latest CPU/GPU for a good time.
And handhelds just become like gaming on the PC/laptops.
Sure, you can update once a year if you want. But if you only want to update once every 2/3/4/whatever years, and not go with the top spec thing out when you do, that's also fine.
karmic marten
I'm not looking to play games on low, 30fps.
then majority of these devices are not for you
the tech is just ot there ... to do stuff like UE5 at mre than low/30
karmic marten
And handhelds just become like gaming on the PC/laptops.
Sure, you can update ...
And handhelds just become like gaming on the PC/laptops.
yup its what the corpos want ... to sell enough to be just another yearly released sku
thats why there are already rumours for Ally/LeGo refreshes by the end of the year
rose canopy
> I'm not looking to play games on low, 30fps.
then majority of these devices ...
marble eagle
> And handhelds just become like gaming on the PC/laptops.
yup its what the cor...
That little bit closer to playing cyberpunk on full settings 😄
karmic marten
That little bit closer to playing cyberpunk on full settings 😄
yeah on your little handheld devies connected to nuclear powerplant and a freezer
slate laurel
It would be interesting to see what would happen if Valve or Asus or whoever dec...
Steam deck is already older specs
I don’t buy phones or laptops based on their value depreciation possibility. I buy them because they do something I want them to do.
I think something like the next lite has an appropriate place for some uses. But I’ll agree with Joey that for newer games I’m not interested in endless tweaking to get an inconsistent 30fps at best.
plucky stirrup
Joey has his eye on the quality experience, not the "can I fix her" experience.
golden leaf
Joey has his eye on the quality experience, not the "can I fix her" experience.
Then he got it wrong if he is going with a Intel handheld. lol. It is still going to be a "fix it" device compared to AMD.
plucky stirrup
the main benchmark was cyberpunk at 1600x900, low graphics. with fsr it could lock 60 at 25-30w, or sustain 35w and hit 43fps with fsr off, which is -fine-. it's about the same as the rog ally z1 extreme. both are power-chuggers.
If you're a user with -zero- technical knowledge, it's an apples/oranges question. If you're a neurotic tech-phile, you look at the 16c/22t/24mb cache cpu and ask yourself "wtf is wrong with this thing; it's 4x stronger than the steam deck and the numbers aren't adding up" and you start pacing around like a crazy person.
i dunno man. its a toy. don't beat yourself up over it.
golden leaf
If you're a user with -zero- technical knowledge, it's an apples/oranges questio...
zero technical knowledge, I would tell them to just get a switch.
I just don't understand how someone buys the top of the line pc handheld with 64gb ram and 4tb and just plays games like flappy bird and N64 emulation.
karmic marten
tbh Z1E or this intel one rent really the "perfect" for AAAs either
its barely above deck's Aertih APU unless in handheld-positive W
but yes it can kinda go but higher at "docked/1h of play" modes
slate laurel
Tbh I use moonlight from my desktop for AAAs anyway. But being able to play indie games at 1080p/120 is a plus on systems like the Ally.
I don’t think the MSI claw is going to be better than 7840u/z1e in performance though. Unless Intel really gets some improvements via drivers or something
I am still somewhat interested in this as a more comfortable alternative to the Ally. Though probably not at $700 unless performance drastically improves.
marble eagle
marble eagle
plucky stirrup
like was said earlier. it needs FSR:performance just like every other apu on the market.
the cheaper Iris Lake 64 igpu's could easily round up to 48 or 60fps with FSR despite being less than half the gpu/cpu power. not much has changed for intel on this front. only difference is it reached that on a 9w/8mb-cache cpu and 12-25w gpu.
Basically, the first GPD Win Max
rose canopy
Preorders up in Canada, says shipping March 29th. $1099 for the 7.
tired scarab
I expect to see open box returns mid -April.
tight coyote
So I guess the market for this device is anybody who doesn't look up performance benchmarks and then decides to not return it
marble eagle
I guess they just told everyone not to review it until after launch day or something? The things out in 3 days, and I've not seen anything more than first impressions videos. But there have been a lot of impressions takes from a month ago, so they presumably could have done a review in that time.
rose canopy
We were all told review units are delayed, so most of us are just buying it in store when it releases.
slate laurel
I guess they just told everyone not to review it until after launch day or somet...
They want people to buy it before more reviews about how its performance compared to AMD sucks come out?
dense gull
Just leaving this here... https://youtu.be/r0JJiiKfwGY?si=CG7WyOx1LhPfZf93&t=1122
We will see if the Claw's performance will be similar
tight coyote
They want people to buy it before more reviews about how its performance compare...
This. The only reason to not want reviews is you know your product sucks
slate laurel
We will see if the Claw's performance will be similar
The only hope would be if Intel royally screwed up drivers and a future update unlocks more performance.
golden leaf
We will see if the Claw's performance will be similar
You mean performance as worse as X1. 😏
plucky stirrup
But would MSI really do that? Just nerf their own hardware? /s
golden leaf
Apparently claw has insane battery life
karmic marten
isnt it just 1 more WH than LeGo has?
marble eagle
Retro tech dads video did show some impressive low TDP emulation. Less impressive PC gaming.
golden leaf
timid rapids
Apparently claw has insane battery life
And 50% worser performance than other gaming handheld
plucky stirrup
yeah. the Rog Ally Z1 hits its cyberpunk performance at like 10w comparatively
marble eagle
yeah. the Rog Ally Z1 hits its cyberpunk performance at like 10w comparatively
Even the Next Lite can match the 40w TDP of The Claw at about 20w (in cyberpunk).
And the Next Lites strength is really emulation, rather than PC gaming.
I think The Claw can beat the Loki Zero at Cyberpunk, particularly if it's allowed to go to a 40w TDP. So it's got that I guess.
plucky stirrup
its simply not built for late 8th/early 9th gen. you don't get that until the first GPD Win Max
dense gull
This launch seems like a disaster
acoustic crest
So wait, reviewers just don't have models... At all?
rose canopy
I can confirm, my contact said no review units available until late March
So after the actual release
rose canopy
I bought, but it doesn't show until March 29th in Canada
dense gull
because the pre-orders and dates are all out of whack
marble eagle
dense gull
🤣
sand jewel
So today is the launch date, barely any were available, and none were given to reviewers beforehand. Doesn’t leave a lot of faith into this one, but I’ve bought worse.
dense gull
So today is the launch date, barely any were available, and none were given to r...
We both have 😅
rose canopy
Really curious about battery life
Deck OLED showing 2-2.30 hours for that same game, which is interesting
golden leaf
If I was interested in cyberpunk, I would test it out on the legion go.
since it has a 49.2Wh battery.
golden leaf
looks like we are back to no vrr
article posted today
https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/handheld-gaming/msi-claw-handheld-pc-with-intel-meteor-lake-now-available-dollar699-device-targets-steak-deck-rog-ally
rose canopy
Ain't no way
rose canopy
Yeah
golden leaf
just trying to save joey some future grief. let's compare what is out there right now
asus
gpd
msi
golden leaf
No grief on my part, I just think that article might be wrong
is msi web page wrong too? no vrr mentioned at all.
rose canopy
I'm just going by when they confirmed it
I'm not their marketing team, I got no idea
golden leaf
just saying.... lol
at least we should know on the first batch next week. before yours is shipped.
keep hope alive Joey!
golden leaf
It doesn’t sound like they have it in hand though
this guy had it for a week. no mention of vrr
https://youtu.be/QHpnwoCgwqI?feature=shared
And he is Canadian @rose canopy. no review units is a lie! haha.
dense gull
MSI sends one person a review unit and tells them to talk only about the hall sticks
lol
rose canopy
Msi sponsored the video and all they did was talk about sticks
golden leaf
I guess the english version would look like this for intel
MSI marketing really screwed this up
tight coyote
Just the sheer fact they've been sketchy about whether it has vrr or not since the beginning should give anyone pause
They don't even seem to know themselves
Consumers to this day are still confused about whether it has it or not
I don't think they could have done a worse job if they tried
dense gull
Agreed, MSI has completely botched this launch and the marketing of their product
golden leaf
https://youtu.be/AA8Se7BEKTA
40w intel vs 30w Z1e cyberpunk test and claw is way behind ally
dense gull
40w intel vs 30w Z1e cyberpunk test and claw is way behind ally
Yup, pretty much what I expected
golden leaf
Make @rose canopy happy. here it is in english. vrr menu setting.
rose canopy
40w intel vs 30w Z1e cyberpunk test and claw is way behind ally
ok
golden leaf
MSI is out so we are going to move the conversation to #🐲│msi
