Cave Noire

[delicate radish]

Just picked this up, very cool gb game. Wish I would have played this over stafy on my flight, should still have time to finish it. Love the screen when you find the door out of the dungeon haha

[hybrid jacinth]

I wonder how close to the end I am 🤔

This is level 7, the others are level 3

[hybrid jacinth]

Yeah I love that part too

[vapid robin]

This game was indeed really fun. I think I’ll continue past level 6 on these quests

[last yacht]

Bout 3/4 just gotta get each one to 6 and fill out the medal

Or rather to 7

[thin prawn]

I remember it also being much much bigger as a game

[ancient tulip]

the one im shocked nobody recommended yet is azure dreams, kinda underrated console roguelike

play the PSX version if you dont want the pokemon type mechanics and the GBC version if you dont want the town building mechanics

[obtuse gale]

Azure dreams is interesting. I think of it more like an rpg. The tower I guess does play like a rogue like, but it’s kind of persona 3 Tartarus like I guess.

[raven wind]

Shiren the wanderer is another great console roguelike (series)

A translation patch for the 4th game on PSP came out, it looks like, about a week ago

I just started and it looks like this is where some of the features from tower of fortune came from, eg night/day, training dungeons, the beautiful sprite work...

[maiden falcon]

Yeah, this one was my favorite. Simple, but tightly executed and ahead of it's time.

I'd be tempted to keep playing if I didn't have so many other games to get to

[obtuse gale]

DQ5 and R4 taking all my extra time for the foreseeable future.

[thin prawn]

Back in the day I played quite a bit of the DS remake of the first Shiren. I remember it being brutal difficulty-wise, but fun

[regal rock]

Turns out killing monsters was my comfort zone and other dungeons are kicking my butt

[ancient tulip]

finally got around to starting this, such a cute lil game

any cross progression between each quest?

[errant widget]

nope, each quest is independent of the others

[lone warren]

Fairy is also pretty easy

[regal rock]

Stuck on fairy 5 and gold 6 rn, gonna try some more later today

[lone warren]

Gold was the hardest for me .

Well I guess it all pretty much depends on luck

Maybe I just had a harder path in gold

Had a hard time with orb also but suddenly I had an easy path

[ancient tulip]

neat, this is such a casual lil game, think i'll do all the retroachievements

[obtuse gale]

I’m definitely coming back for this.

[ancient tulip]

luckly the set seems pretty straightforward

[obtuse gale]

Yeah, basic. The game does seem to take a difficulty spike after level 6. I’ve only messed with the killing monster one higher. But it got quite a bit harder.

[ancient tulip]

yeah a lot of dodging enemies, i've been using some rewind cause it seems once you lock unto an enemy you HAVE to attack or skip turn

[obtuse gale]

Yes. You do.

[ancient tulip]

oof, i figured there had to be a way of avoiding it, rewind it is

[obtuse gale]

Yeah, movement actions are permanent. You have to be sure when moving what you’re doing.

Rewind, think ahead, whatever.

[thin prawn]

But only for one turn from what I've seen

[raven wind]

Ive never gotten past the swamp myself. And getting past the cave with the flame monsters was pure luck the one time I did it. I think "inflict status effect and run" is the main strategy for that series

[ancient tulip]

i just rewind cause i make dumb mistakes and then think how to correct them lmao

[ancient tulip]

i never won any of these games and im still an old timer in that community lol

its less a skill gap and more a knowledge gap, tho grinding high quality items helps, and THAT is a skill gap since it requires, well, not dying

[raven wind]

I had a +15 naginata once. That was the time I got furthest, but I still used all my items and died lol

[ancient tulip]

i mean it helps, but in the first game you cant grind yourself to a win, in the post shiren 3 games you sorta can tho, due to weapon XP

[raven wind]

I got obsessed with the dungeon center in the latest one. I barely made it out onto the regular course tbh. I love the one where you can befriend monsters, what a creative idea

Well... It's just Pokemon now that I think about ot

[ancient tulip]

i still havent played shiren 5 cause the DS version hasnt been translated, didnt have a vita and the PC version was and is overpriced as fuck

wait befriend monsters?

[raven wind]

It's out on switch now if you have one of those

[ancient tulip]

azure dreams?

[ancient tulip]

i dont, and its also overpriced there lol

wait is 6 out?

[raven wind]

Yeah I recall that sometimes when you kill them a monster will drop an item that turns every subsequent monster of that type to your side

[ancient tulip]

oh shit shiren 6 comes out THIS WEEK

[raven wind]

So if you keep the bee item, later on in the dungeon - wait wtf

Whoaa

[ancient tulip]

oh neat, didnt play 5 so i didnt know

[ancient tulip]

im still iffy on the art style shift honestly

like i love the character art but not replacing the pixel art with the shiren 2 style prerendered chibi models

tho i get it, its apparently VERY shiren 2 inspired

like to the point of ditching some of the more RPG-y mechanics of the newer ones

[raven wind]

Interesting. Isn't the whole point of shiren 2 steady progress outside of the dungeon environment though?

[ancient tulip]

wait are we talking shiren 2 or shiren GB2/DS2?

[raven wind]

I'm thinking of n64 shiren

Where you slowly build a castle

I haven't played it much, though it's on my list

[ancient tulip]

oh yeah that one, shiren 2 is about progressing an objective but not meta progression

like you dont get better at dungeons, that progress is mostly stuck there, rather you obtain progress for the main objective, through the dungeons

closer to something like cladun or other NIS games

or the ambition mode in dynasty warriors 8 lol

[raven wind]

I didn't know that's what cladun was

Now I'm kind of intrigued

[smoky iron]

cladun is a banger DC game

should give it a try

fun to create your stuff

[ancient tulip]

DC? its a PSP game

[ancient tulip]

really fun series, 2 of them got PC ports but avoid buying them cause they are both iffy (specially 2's) and NISA doesnt deserve a penny from us

the first one has a really fun story, shame its stuck on PSP

[smoky iron]

dungeon crawling

I know it's on psp I played it a ton lol

I just didn't play the vita sengoku version

x2 is my fav

[raven wind]

Aw I love my PSP. Anyway, thanks, sold, I'll look into it

[ancient tulip]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[smoky iron]

now that I read that it does sound weird

but I meant Dungeon Crawling lol

It`s super fun, but I never finished it

NIS systems were wacky for my young mind

[ancient tulip]

not missing much if you played X2, its basically a sengoku themed expansion of X2 with more movesets and a new type of dungeon, and finally a half decent coop mode

[smoky iron]

but I did like drawing characters and weapons

[ancient tulip]

i never finished X2 or 3 lol

[ancient tulip]

wacky is a good word, i was too dumb to finish most of them

[smoky iron]

yeah I didn`t have much interest in it

[smoky iron]

it is relatable indeed

they are very deep if you like that kind of stuff

but kid me just wanted to create weapons/characters and tackle dungeons

[ancient tulip]

the issue is that i was too dumb for any sort of depth lol
it took me like 4 years to beat cladun 1, and most of that was being driven by the really cute story

x2 just didnt hook me that way

the randomized loot was nice but the plot was sorta eh, i'll go back to it when it has retroacheivements

[smoky iron]

I do want to finish it still

[ancient tulip]

what carried me through most NIS games i finished is the story and X2 didnt hook me at all, sadly

[smoky iron]

I want to finish X2 and ZHP

[ancient tulip]

and im not doing a huge grind when i could be doing it with RA on lol

[smoky iron]

zhp is very fucking good man

love me some sentai shit

[ancient tulip]

ZHP is another i didnt finish, mostly because the sentai stuff didnt hook me as much as the core roguelike gameplay and the funny dialog did

[smoky iron]

https://tenor.com/view/ultraman-spacium-ray-ultraman-finisher-bad-opinion-detected-funny-meme-gif-25438223

sentai is peak

😎

but fr tho

while I love the sentai parts

the sprite changes with different parts really gets me going

discovering new equips and shit

[ancient tulip]

lol i just never got hooked on it myself

i did like armored core-y it got with the utility and visual change of each part

[hybrid jacinth]

On the last few levels

Finally

[unique plover]

You can do it!

[regal rock]

Got an easy dungeon and finally bested fairy 6, off to orbs

[ancient tulip]

im half way through all the quests

[ancient tulip]

anyone know how to kill the puzzle piece enemies?

or the gas ones?

i just get 0 all the time when hitting them

[errant widget]

burn them I think

[obtuse gale]

They’re immune to physical attacks. You have to use magic, and it’s usually not worth it. Just run by them.

[ancient tulip]

yep, i figured that fire and blaze work, anything else?

[tranquil flame]

If you use the invisibility cloak, they move away from you. Saved me once when I got cornered with no burn spells

[ancient tulip]

yeah i've done so too

[ancient tulip]

ok i got to M on orb, by far the orb quest is the worst, so much inventory fuckery

one more of these and im done with dropping items constantly

[ancient tulip]

finally

god the orb quest m was awful

i get the concept but i got bad RNG and was holding nothing but robs, a sword and a shield for a good 3 floors

the other quests are a lot more fun

[ancient tulip]

ok got credits, im gonna do all the retroachievements tho

fun lil game, punching waaaaaaaaaay above its weight

[ancient tulip]

fr tho, really fun game

[obtuse gale]

https://tenor.com/view/encanto-pepa-madrigal-we-dont-talk-about-bruno-no-no-no-disney-gif-24935713

[regal rock]

I think I find fairies to be the worst, buy maybe I just got the worst rng on that one

Ultimately, the more you play, the more you see that you live or die by the rng and you can have runs that are beyond saving

There was a number of times in fairies that it started me in a really small and difficult room and I didn't have any items to avoid getting rekt to 2-3 hp

I think if you move really fast after entering the room, the game doesn't record your first input, and there were couple times it got me thrown into the lava

[tranquil flame]

Orbs should have been the hardest, but I actually found gold the hardest. Reaching the target fold of. Level 6, then not being able to find an exit for 4 floors was nail-bighting

[ancient tulip]

as long as you keep some magic items handy you can avoid the worst of bad RNG

which you cant in the orb quest because you literally dont have enough space lmao

[regal rock]

Well, barely nothing drops in fairy dungeon lol, you can't stack up in orb, but you can always throw orb for a moment if you need to use an item that you find in a chest

[ancient tulip]

yeah but you can manage by dodging enemies, in the fairy dungeon i dont engage enemies i dont need to

[regal rock]

I guess I'm just bad at dodging them.

[pure tinsel]

95% of enemies can be safely avoided. I only ever had problem with one dragon I couldn't get around without cloak and sometimes the stupid strong skeletons were in a bad spot. If a skeleton is in the room you need, try leaving the room and wasting a few turns. The skeleton will move away and you can possibly get what you needed unscathed

[regal rock]

This seems straightforward on paper. But the scenarios you will find yourself into involve skeletons in both rooms and you can't really skip enough turns in either without getting hit, or a room with that large snake thing and a skeleton and a narrow lava bridge. Some layouts you can manoeuvre around, but not all.

[obtuse gale]

There have been a couple times where I've been caught with a skeleton on both sides of a door and I don't have a fire spell. It's only happened like twice, but it's pretty much game over when it happens. Skeletons, or those black kngiht guys.

[delicate radish]

I also hate getting stuck in between two gas cloud guys. I basically got softlocked between them

[regal rock]

About those gas clouds, if you have a wall to walk into, they will actually move if you keep walking into the wall, didn't work with skipping turns for me

[delicate radish]

Ah I didn't try that, I tried to skip and was just stuck

[ancient tulip]

you can kite skellies most of the time

[hexed tangle]

I agree

How long is it taking people to beat?

I just beat stafy and am wondering if I can finish this game in time. I'm on level 5 for all the choices

[lone warren]

Starfy took me 6 hours I think.

[hexed tangle]

I just beat stafy, how long did cave take you?

[idle fjord]

it should be less, and also if you are in level 5 you are almost there. At the same time, level 6 is when things start needing more care and thought; but if you have the grasp of the game you can do it in 1 hour or so. Depends on your luck with monsters and maps as well.

This game is short, but not as short as it looks 😅 And I don't like that in RA they require you to complete all caverns until level M to mark the game as completed

[regal rock]

The game took me 6 hours

[lone warren]

Sorry I misunderstood . Cave noire took me 5 hours

[ancient tulip]

cave noire took me some 6 hours or so, on and off for 3 days

its very pick up and play

takes longer to beat depending on the quests you do

[obtuse gale]

Achievements are always excessive. Retroachievements included. I don’t know of a single game where just a single, normal playthrough unlocks everything. It’s more a completionist thing.

[idle fjord]

sorry I meant beaten not completed 😅

[obtuse gale]

Might just be the set needs to be updated. The whole beaten thing is a brand new feature. Many games don’t have it yet.

[gray imp]

Is getting the ribbon (beating level 6) on all four enough to consider it conpleted by GOTM standards or do you have to beat level 7s as well?

[tranquil flame]

The credits role after you complete level 6 on each of the 4 dungeons. That’s the screen you need to take a photo of for completion

[gray imp]

Thank goodness lol

I'm enjoying the game but I've had some roooooooooough RNG these past few attempts

[ancient tulip]

if just getting to credits was the "completion" that'd miss the point, if anything this is a good set because beating the game JUST requires beating all the M quests, and the small challenges are optional to get the completion medal

[obtuse gale]

Except I think most people typically consider seeing credits counting as beating the game. The level 7 - M quests are additional challenges.

[ancient tulip]

i guess but i didnt get the credits until i beat one M quest so at least one is needed

[obtuse gale]

Nope. you just need level 1-6 on all quests completed. When you complete the 6th level on the final quest, you see the credits.

[ancient tulip]

that is certainly not my experience

i didnt see the credits till i got all the medals

[obtuse gale]

I don't know what to tell you. I'm nowhere near completing any of the beyond level 6 quests and I got credits.
#1102540186790928415 message

[gray imp]

Just completed my final Level 6

Credits rolled

[obtuse gale]

look at that expression of pure ecstasy. 🤣

[ancient tulip]

maybe thats not the completion criteria?

maybe its doing a certain amount of quests?

side note, i ended up using the GBC dark blue palette

really easy on the eyes and bi colored

[ancient tulip]

i love that the default name is pentaro

[ancient tulip]

bruh

[obtuse gale]

teleport away and skip that one. lol.

[ancient tulip]

wdym teleport

[obtuse gale]

the square in the bottom right... it's like a teleport to a different room thing.

[ancient tulip]

i know but i need it Q_Q

[obtuse gale]

Actually, can you even get it? Hitting A to open your menu to use the key will activate the teleport?

[ancient tulip]

yep

you cant

[obtuse gale]

XD

It's all a lie. Cave Noire is terrible.

[ancient tulip]

nah, this game is neat but like all RLs, some map gen bugs are expected

[slow silo]

Didn’t think it would take me a month to finish this short game, but i rolled credits. I didn’t know you only had to do 6 levels each, i have been doing 10 for the first 3 group of stages. Those 99 gold was annoying. Anyway, this is my first one for game of the month.

[lunar orchid]

Very first gotm here. Beat level six on all but gold. It's testing my patience, literally. Not a patient man it seems. Was fun to begin with though.

[ancient tulip]

great game with rewind lol

[lunar orchid]

Did not think of that. Would have saved some frustration the 20th time I hit a direction key too quickly in haste and fell down a level.

[tranquil flame]

Level 6 gold was the one I found toughest too

[spiral moat]

I think this game is best played without save states or rewind. You must be punished for your mistakes!

Finding 25 gold was definitely the hardest.

[lone warren]

True . I think I used save state just once , when I had enough of … level 6 gold lol. But I didn’t die anyway .

[obtuse gale]

That’s part of the rogue like formula. Make mistakes, but recognize where you went wrong and improve from there.

[ancient tulip]

the problem is that a lot of the mechanics are too jank to not have to fall back on that, in shiren if you target an enemy then regret it, you dont have to skip a turn and get hit to cancel it

[spiral moat]

I mean, that's the strategy. If you go into a fight you regret, you move away.

[ancient tulip]

the problem is that when moving, you get auto target

[obtuse gale]

You only get auto target when you move into a square you’re going to be fighting from. You can still skip, but you’re also going to be attacked. Make a smarter move next time. Unless it’s one of those occasions where you are just stuck. But like 85% of this game is learning the enemies movement patterns and exploiting them.

[ancient tulip]

again, i understand this, i still think its a valid criticism that you shouldnt be locked into combat because you approached an enemy from one angle but not from another

[obtuse gale]

Angle has nothing to do with it? If you move into a square adjacent to a monster, you will fight it.

[ancient tulip]

yeah but if you skip a turn and let the enemy move to you OR move into a square the same time a monster does an adjecent one, that doesnt auto lock

hence the inconsistency

[errant widget]

The turn order is: you move, you attack, enemy attacks, enemy moves.

So not an inconsistency from the game’s system. It was designed that way and can be played around.

[ancient tulip]

i really dont think it was on purpose as much as it was made that way due to the limited controls

it auto targets so combat isnt cumbersome cause the attack button is also the inventory button

[errant widget]

I’d guess you autotarget because the game considers item use to be a move action rather than an attack action. So the autotarget tells you that you can’t move anymore. As for the turn order being intentional I definitely think it is. The order allows you to run away from an adjacent enemy.

[ancient tulip]

again, the auto target is there to make the combat fluid, not because some purposeful puzzle game type design choice

[smoky iron]

it clearly is because you can literally stand besides an enemy moving along with it and not auto target

[ancient tulip]

again, i dont think thats intentional as much as its so you dont soft lock people

[smoky iron]

it feels like it is because all of the mechanics are consistent with each other

I didn't have the auto targeting problem once I figured how it works

when it locks and when it doesn't

it's not random or inconsistent at all

you could argue that you don't like it, but it definetly feels consistent

[ancient tulip]

i figured out how it works, it still annoying because sometimes RNG makes it so that the auto target means you HAVE to fight or use a handful of items to skip a battle, multiple times due to backtracking sometimes

[ancient tulip]

i dont like it cause shiren 1 on GB managed to do this same sort of combat system without needing to do this :P

[smoky iron]

If you think there is rng makes auto targeting happens, you did not figure it out dude :(

[smoky iron]

Not the same game and different intent

The only time rng makes you fight is when they spawn those ridiculous skeletons/warriors

Besides that, there is no rng in moving or attacking

Not counting damage value and dodges ofx

[ancient tulip]

?????

i feel like you are not engaging with what im saying

like thats just not what i said

besides all im saying is that its a small design problem that could have been fixed with a toggle setting, this game in general is lacking in certain things that make no sense outside of the context of this being an ultra minimalist game for the gameboy

like how sword and shield upgrades dont stack so you have to throw the previous one and grab the new one

like i just got 3 magic swords in one floor

why

[obtuse gale]

Stacking swords and shield upgrades makes less sense. You need four arms to wield two swords and two shields. It an I not understanding something?

I just don’t see your complaint as a design flaw I guess. To me, it all seems pretty deliberate and executed well.

[errant widget]

yeah maybe we lost the thread. I thought you were saying "I use rewind because the times when you auto-target don't make sense." and then a bunch of us said "but it does make sense and you're supposed to be avoid the situations where you'd be locked into combat." you're free to play with rewind if that makes the game more fun/tolerable for you.

[smoky iron]

please explain to me then

I don't get your complaint regarding the atuo targeting

I do get tht other games do not work like that

I played a couple of mystery dungeons

[ancient tulip]

sense? this is a fantasy game lmao
realism isnt fun

[ancient tulip]

no i said, i use rewind because i gotta tip toe around every monster otherwise, which makes backtracking annoying

[smoky iron]

Naw man no way you're dissing the risk/reward of exploring on an exploration game 😔

[ancient tulip]

there is no reward, its all risk

and besides, this isnt exploring, backtracking means literally redoing puzzles you already solved

[smoky iron]

alright, so you just want to skip mechanics you don't like in the game

that you consider "bad design"

every time you go down a floor, you take a risk, when you enter a room, when you take a step

going down means taking more risks, and higher level missions forces you to take those risks

but you gotta take calculated risks ofc, avoid every battle that you can, because 90% of them are avoidable

[regal rock]

I'm a save abuser, but it's kinda pointless in this game, cause that would destroy the gameplay loop, like if you were to save at the beginning of every room in hades to make perfect clears, breaks the point of the game

[ancient tulip]

yes, just like how games nowadays give you unlimited stamina when backtracking, i dont think you should before to redo puzzle solutions to go back and check one room you missed, that most likely had nothing in it

[smoky iron]

I get why you like the cut in mechanics they made in AC6

that is an insane take for me

actions have risks

even backtracking

specially in a roguelike

you risk dying by going back to check something if you think you have to

games that give you unlimited stamina when backtracking

Like which ones?

[ancient tulip]

i really dont think its that insane to ask that i dont need to drop my other sword to check if the sword on the floor is the exact same, worse, or better, because there is more complexity than that, its number go up

[ancient tulip]

remnant 2 off the top of my head

but even brogue had the auto explore option that when the floor is clear just takes you to the exit automatically

[smoky iron]

MHW goves you infinite stamina when you're not in combat

[smoky iron]

damn that sounds like ass

[ancient tulip]

oh that too

[smoky iron]

you have no reason to explore

when the game tells you there is not more to explore

[ancient tulip]

how is it ass to give you the basic QoL of not having to manually walk to the exit once you are done

[smoky iron]

you say QoL, I say streamlining

[ancient tulip]

you are done, if there is no more to explore and the game doesnt tell you thats just bad signaling

you are wandering around aimlessly

thats not exploration

[smoky iron]

lmao you have to exsplore on an exploration game man

it's not mindlessly walking around

[ancient tulip]

yes, and when you are done, you head to the next floor to do it again

not bump into every wall to see if its a secret

[smoky iron]

ifyou have not cleared rooms, you don't know if you're done

[ancient tulip]

by this same logic you can say cave noire shouldnt tell you when a secret wall can be broken and you just need to figure it out yourself by bumping into every wall

[ancient tulip]

cave noire literally has a mechanic to tell you if there is nothing in the room

thats what the orb is for

[smoky iron]

yes, and you gotta have inventory space

it's not free

[ancient tulip]

it even tells you what type of item it is

[smoky iron]

nothing in cave noire is free

except coin purse aparently lol

[ancient tulip]

its literally one inventory space for infinite uses, and in one 4th of the game you are forced to have multiple ones

[smoky iron]

because hiden rooms sometimes contain items necessary for progrees

it's not just "extra stuff"

[ancient tulip]

again, i get why the sword and shield take inventory spaces, i just dont get why if its just number go up, why you have to do so much inventory fiddling every time you find another one

[smoky iron]

so you need 1 inventory space, not free

there is a huge difference between virtually free and actually free in a game like this

[ancient tulip]

no they dont

hidden rooms can speed up progress, but they arent vital

its literally extra stuff

[smoky iron]

alright, you can keep going down, instead of searching for the extra room

[ancient tulip]

so? it makes no difference to me when in a good chunk of the game im obligated to carry them around

[smoky iron]

so you like infinite whetstones and pickaxes and the infinite stamina in MHW

I don't like it

[ancient tulip]

like you do realize that the auto exit option in brogue isnt literally free either, right? you need to explore every corner of the floor, every tile of fog of war

[smoky iron]

just keep removing aspects and making stuff "unnecessary"

[ancient tulip]

yes, its called quality of life, having to cancel the hunt because you forgot to bring more whetstones is lame as shit and makes coop a nightmare

[smoky iron]

lmao just learn to carry items man it's not hard

[ancient tulip]

you can like your clunky stuff all you like, it doesnt change the fact that objectively, people dont want to have to drop a sword, grab another one, only to figure out its the exact same sword and that they wasted their time

[smoky iron]

it's not QoL, it's treamnlining, blacksmith in MP is QoL, this is just streamlining

[smoky iron]

you, in this case, not "people"

and it's not objective at all

both of us are just fighting opinions

[ancient tulip]

"just learn the armor ability system man" "just choose a random quest man" "just "just remember to clumsily aim a paintball at the monster every single time, 5 times per hunt total, man"

totally not tedious at all

[smoky iron]

it's tedious, for you

[ancient tulip]

its tedious for everyone

you just see tedium as something to overcome

[smoky iron]

nope

[ancient tulip]

i see tedium as something getting in the way of me having fun

[smoky iron]

don't try to tell me what I like or don't man lol

it's not tedious

[ancient tulip]

i play games to have fun, not to do chores

[smoky iron]

it's a part of the hunt I miss dearly on World

if it's a chore for you you can just play other games man

there are games that are just "fun"

no "chores" involved as you said

cave noire is one of those tho

[ancient tulip]

next you'll tell me that actually when armored core 3 let you sell parts straight from the garage thats bad because you have to FEEL like you are going to the shop to buy stuff

[smoky iron]

nope, that would be QoL for me

I would complain if they removed a bunch of stats to make the game more streamlined

which is what happened and stuff

remove parts people "don't use", or "stats that matter less"

[ancient tulip]

i dunno man, it truly seems like you are not engaging with my point and just celebrating bad, dated design, separating "streamlining" and "QoL" with arbitrary barriers that only make sense for you personally, rather than acknowledging that on the era of developer feedback, this stuff would never happen.

[ancient tulip]

what stats, there are 3 stats in cave noire and they all just go up

luck medalions dont even occupy inventory slots

[smoky iron]

lmao I was talking about AC

[ancient tulip]

and HP boosts carry over for no reason

[smoky iron]

cave noire has a lot of systems to manage and huge risk/reward even if you see it just as risk

[ancient tulip]

like did y'all even realize that? HP boosts carry over from quest to quest, it was driving me crazy that everyone said quests are self contained

[smoky iron]

I am definetly not, even tho I do like old MH and old AC more than the newer ones

[ancient tulip]

wdym with a lot, it literally has like 5 mechanics, its a really simple game

[smoky iron]

just saying that what you see as "dated" is as much as an opinion as mine is

[smoky iron]

and you don't want to engage with them, and that is fine, but it's not really dated nor badly designed

[ancient tulip]

*after i already engaged with them, beat all the challenges, and dont want to just do it backwards again for a small or nonexistent reward

again, shiren had this figured out on the same platform

[smoky iron]

again, it's not the same game and design

and if you already beat the challenges, why are you comming back if comming back does not appeal to you?

[ancient tulip]

because there is a room i missed and its the only thing im missing?

[smoky iron]

yeah

then go back and do it

you clearly can do it just fine

[ancient tulip]

i literally started this conversation by saying i use rewind and fast forward to get that stuff over with quick

[smoky iron]

if you think it's a waste of time don't

yeah, and while "do what you want", you're just nto engaging with the game on it's terms

[ancient tulip]

if i thought it was a waste of time 100% of the time i wouldnt play this game, because it'd be badly designed

the issue is that the way levels are generated leads to a lot of dead end rooms

[smoky iron]

yeah, that is the thing

[ancient tulip]

yes, its bad lol

its bad that i missed one room so if i didnt have rewind and fast forward i'd have to redo all my hard work because i missed one room, or just exit the floor and hope that didnt have the one orb i was missing

[smoky iron]

alright, if you think your opinion on game design are facts, just have fun your way and beat the game on your terms

it's more fun that way anyways

[ancient tulip]

i did

and it was more fun lol

[smoky iron]

then good :)

[ancient tulip]

my entire point here is that i can fix the game somewhat, but that doesnt mean i cant make a point in this discussion forum to discuss a game that the game design is flawed

[smoky iron]

there is nothing to fix that is your opinion, that is my point

anyways that is that

[ancient tulip]

then why are we talking, whats the point of talking about this if the game is perfect and unimpeachable???

[smoky iron]

not perfect, just nothing to fix design wise

seems to be just what they wanted to make

else they would make shiren 1

as you said

[smoky iron]

we are talking because talking about it is just fun

but when you think opinions are facts it gets kinda bad

I personaly think MHW is bad, but I know it's not

[ancient tulip]

no, i said the game has multiple problems, i pointed out the problems, i compared it to a game of the same genre on the same platform and others in other platforms, and you said "actually no, you are wrong, the game has no problems"

[smoky iron]

stuff like that

[ancient tulip]

MHW isnt bad, you just dont like it, you are mixing up "not liking" and "this thing is bad"

[smoky iron]

no I said what you think are problems are just your perception of what should be good

[ancient tulip]

i like cave noire, its a good game, its not flawless tho

[smoky iron]

yeah exatctly, you think it's bad, I think it's opinion, and the reverse with MHW

[ancient tulip]

yes, a perception informed by playing a ton of games of the same genre and decades worth of game design advancements the devs didnt have the foresight to use

[smoky iron]

definetly not

[smoky iron]

samesies

[ancient tulip]

this is a circular argument, when you say something is bad, its bad, when i say something its bad, its my opinion and therefore not truly a reflection of how we should percieve the game

[smoky iron]

but MH in this case, I only played a couple of "Mystery dungeons" like this

[smoky iron]

nah man, every time I said it, I said personally

I don't think what I complained about MHW is universal, I think like 5 people agree with me

[ancient tulip]

all the stuff i say is personal, all the stuff we all say is personal

[smoky iron]

then good :D

it's what I've been trying to say for a while

[ancient tulip]

again, it just seems like you are looking for a roundabout way to invalidiate my opinion, which makes having a serious, adult discussion about its merits and faults very hard

[smoky iron]

not at all, because liquid also agrees that what you pointed out seems wrong

there is no invalidating opinions

I just happen to think it's wrong based on what I said

it's not like what you said is wrong or anything like that

I just said it's worng because of this this and that

and you said it isn't because of that that and this

it's definetly gonna be circular because you can't convince me and I can't convince you

we're just talking about it

[obtuse gale]

At the end of the day, realize there are just different opinions. Axcelon thinks it’s accidental and bad design. I think it’s deliberate and would ruin a big part of what makes the game work. It’s okay to disagree. Just accept you have differences and move one.

[smoky iron]

https://tenor.com/view/star-trek-william-shatner-agree-agreed-yes-gif-4477489

[lone warren]

As a monster hunter fan, I didn’t even bother with world and subsequent releases. Monster hunter is supposed to be tedious , it’s part of the fun. Well for me but obviously not for the majority since mh is way more popular than ever before .

[smoky iron]

I mean, selling on 3 huge platforms instead of a portable waaaaaaay less popular one is a big reason

but I don't think it was tedious at all

I always saw hunting monsters as the reward for gathering and preparation

not the actual drops and stuff

I also didn't buy rise, world was already way too loose on everything that was not hunting

if AC7 comes out and it's still more like 6 I ain't buying it

it's too easy and action focused

[lone warren]

Oh I think I get it now . You are doing retro achievements right ? I can totally imagine that this would not be fun in a game like cave noire .

[lone warren]

Tedious might not be the right word then. I mean it needs a lot of preparation , and that’s part of the fun .

[smoky iron]

yes, this 100%

preparation to hunt, and the hunt as reward for being ready was my shit

https://tenor.com/view/mhfu-monster-hunter-hunting-horn-mh-game-gif-24603330

[lone warren]

I was on monster hunter discord , playing monster hunter generations ultimate , and all old school fans were saying that world and rise are too easy . Fuck that

[smoky iron]

I still play GenU on 3ds to this day

game is too good

I think World and Rise are waaay too cracked, you have more tools to make it easier, but I don't like them so it's way haerder 😔

[smoky iron]

ya play on switch?

[lone warren]

Yeah . Well I stopped playing about a year ago and won’t go back . It would be too hard to get into it again . I already forgot everything lol

[smoky iron]

nah man that shit is muscle memory

I spend a couple of gens without playing and couple of hours in on 4u and I was back again

but it is a huuuge time sink

that worries me way more than forgeting stuff lol

[lone warren]

Yeah you’re right , I was literally not playing anything else for 2 years .

If I go back I will be out of gotm lol

[smoky iron]

lmao it is a complicated afair

[ancient tulip]

nah honestly the retroachievements are pretty decent, i already did all the M quests and beyond that i just have to get the highest tier of gear and reach the final floor (30th)

[pure radish]

Really loved this one, normally don't enjoy rouge likes but this one was great. Definitely keeping it in the rotation for when I need a game to play in short windows.

[ancient tulip]

Anyone with RNG tips for the HP boost achievement? im really struggling to find 2 in one run

[ancient tulip]

NVM, got the last achievement, just had to get lucky with the seed

[tranquil flame]

That’s what she said