GameForce ACE

[hollow nymph]

Called BredOs

[viral mesa]

hmmm

[hollow nymph]

Damn someone has an rk3588 prototype and its not orange pi powkiddy or gameforce

Holy

[light verge]

Who?

[hollow nymph]

Dunno if i can say

But its not the rk3588s

The proper rk3588

3d mario world running on it the switch version

7inch screen

Easier to run ps2 games upscale to 1080p

[spiral path]

As far as I know, the cores are the same on RK3588 and RK3588S, the difference is in I/O that are largely irrelevant for a handheld

But there's no performance difference

[hollow nymph]

So we can assume the same from the gameforce

Probably will look even better on the smaller screen

[acoustic umbra]

[somber flower]

Calm man lets keep things calm

👀

It is to give a "green" loking

[austere palm]

For the dpad

[somber flower]

LoL

[austere palm]

The overall device may be decent but I doubt the dpad will be better than meh

[deft ocean]

glad that the rk3588 wave is starting

it's been fun rk3566 and t618

[hollow nymph]

Dunno who is making that device but they let devs put their dorritos hands on it

Im very happy

[deft ocean]

too bad s922x/a311d didn't take off. those chips would make excellent options for budget linux devices more powerful than rk3566

[austere palm]

Hoping this drives down T618 prices, it's the most budget chip we have commonly in handhelds that do very good N64, DC and PSP

3566 can do them, but just ok

And the T610 can as well, but that's just the 2s

[clear flare]

Still might - the s922x/a311d kernel support was still not great until fairly recently (jelos just fixed the screen tearing in the DSI driver like a month ago?)

[quartz jewel]

i have a bad feeing about this device

[dark gorge]

no. let amlogic die in aliexpress android box hell

[deft ocean]

damn, aren't you the OGU #1 fan?

[dark gorge]

not anymore. just scroll on through the rgb10max3electricboogaloo room

it was me who burned up not one, but two ogu's and burned through two batteries, before i got to the third only for the second soc to die.

(caresses x18s)

[foggy crest]

I agree....I haven't seen any good amlogic points except the cheap price. But but....I don't want Rockchip in the space solo.

[gleaming shore]

do we know if linux actually possible on this device

given it is a RK3588 afterall

[dark gorge]

amlogic "works" as long as you don't try to max out the soc(without active cooling). 1800mhz should be a hard lock. beyond that, you need a heatsink and a fan, or it melts

[dark gorge]

slaminger said they're working on it

right now linux is alphaware though. not much is optimized for the soc

[gleaming shore]

then the question is..........

do i wait for OP or Gameforce

[dark gorge]

if you like android, and have a gameplan, gameforce. otherwise, go with something else. win600 peaced out, and the loki zero is still waiting to be born

[gleaming shore]

what you mean by gameplan?

[dark gorge]

as in you know exactly what you want to play

[gleaming shore]

oh, i have odin2 coming

if i buy this, it would legit be for linux

or the hope it would have linux

otherwise i would not touch this or OP at all

[dark gorge]

gameforce indie + lemuroid + ppsspp + play store stuff is kind of my "maybe i will, maybe i won't" option

[gleaming shore]

nah, i want the higher end emu

so it will need to be 3588

guess i will put my faith into slaminger

[clear flare]

I wouldn’t buy anything on the hopes of a future operating system tbh

[gleaming shore]

😭

but the pre-order is such a good price...........

[clear flare]

Jelos was expecting dev units of this but haven’t heard anything yet

If you’d be fine with the cost even if it stayed Android only then go ahead and buy would be my advice

[dark gorge]

(sideloads animus and pascal's wager to his x18s) i'll go with what stimulates my bloodlust.

they really should have hired an intern to make them a screenmapping app.

[clear flare]

Do we have details of what comes installed?

[dark gorge]

all we know is LineageOS (android 12). Which means it could be anything ranging from ULTRA-barebones to barebones+whattheythinkgamerslike

it's safe to assume, if you've ever installed lineageOS on amlogic or an rpi4, it will be ultra barebones without even the play store. having a gameplan would be you buying a 512gb microSD and putting the apps and roms you plan to use on that card, including the aurora store apk if it even works anymore

[frosty flume]

isn't RK3588 better run linux instead of android?

[clear flare]

if you prefer linux or want to run stuff that doesn't have android software

but right now I think linux for 3588 is actually in pretty rough shape driver/kernel wise

it'll probably get better pretty quick once more 3588 devices are around to hack on

[past lintel]

They make 3588 SBC now, no?

Would be interested in this if it ends up getting JELOS support; have been loving my experience with the 35xx/MM+ and Max 3 Pro lately, so much more like Batocera and less like using my phone.

[clear flare]

yeah, jelos currently supports a couple 3588 SBCs but only on BSP kernel

to really get the linux side as powerful as the android side it'll have to go mainline linux I think

[past lintel]

ah

[quaint wadi]

The zero is shipping now, isn't it?

[dull turtle]

it is, yeah

[orchid pumice]

Same. Nobody needs another rectangle slab

[quartz jewel]

would the next version of this be called the GameForce ARO

[little nexus]

hahaha

[keen lintel]

All things considered, the safer way to go would be wait until the 9th of Oct. for a review and then order ..
That price is so good for what this thing can (in theory) do, even looking at it just with lineage os.
The possibility of Linux is just gravy to be honest 😚

That giant GAMEFORCE beneath the screen though 🙃

[quaint wadi]

Aye. All things considered, the retail price is still a great deal if this is good.

[true vault]

Gotta risk it for the biscuit

[foggy niche]

we can always get some stickers

[quaint wadi]

I don't mind the idea of preordering for a discount from a console you can look at and think, yup, they have a good track record of a decent length, and the console looks hard to mess up.

This....has neither of those things. Could be another Odin (pushing things forward), could be another X18S (good specs, bad everything else). I'd feel more comfortable waiting and paying the extra $60 personally.

I mean, again, it looks like the Powkiddy X51, which is a $50 switch knock off. I'll wait.

[keen lintel]

That's what i'm thinking too..
Honestly I have a limited budget for this things, this price for me at least is sensible..
But I really don't have a lot of experience in this medium, I bought an Rg35xx for my daughter and liked it so much I ended up getting an x55 for myself, it would be perfect for me if it could do N64 , DC, PSP a litle better, so I started looking at t618's. Then I Saw this and the performance for the same price, at least in my region is just too good to pass up

But the gear of the dud is real 😅

*fear

[quaint wadi]

Yeah, I get you.

It's a funny time right now. We could well have seen the last T618 console come out. So on the face of it, it seems like a bad time to buy one, if the next big thing is on it's way.

But then again....the T618's are still really good value, still cheaper than what this thing will retail at.

And even if this chip is the next big thing....who knows how long it is until it makes it into a good console? The X18S was the first T618, and everyone hated it. It took over a year for the next T618 console to come out. Could be that again.

And even when a good console with this chip does land...will it be in the right form factor for you, or be missing a feature you need?

Depends how much of a rush you are in I guess. If you are in a rush, I'd just get a T618. it'll still add N64/DC/PSP/Saturn to what you can play, and you can take your pick from an array of form factors and features.
If not in a rush, maybe wait and see how this one pans out. Danger there is that, in a month or two when reviews land, there's another one that gets announced, and then you wait for that.....🤷‍♂️

I've seen people just constantly preordering and cancelling stuff on indiegogo when something else turns up. There's always something potentially better coming out....

[earnest saddle]

Or just spring big for an Odin 2 and call it a day? That’s still more powerful than a 3688, right?

[foggy niche]

yes it is, but for value this is damn good

[keen lintel]

For me a mid specced Odin 2 would be about 430€ shipped, this GAMEFORCE is 164€...
I tried an Odin , loved it , but to put it in context, my Steam deck ( which I don't really take anywhere outside the house) was 330€ used with warranty..
It's too much for what I want , the ayaneo Pocket air is on the same boat, looks awesome for the price but I cant really justify it..
This would be a substitute for an x55 and I would call it a day, I toss that thing in the bag and play it during down time at work or whenever I want

[keen lintel]

You're absolutely on point..
I will wait for a review to be sure but for my budget this is beyond my expectations, I would be more inclined to trade if went for an t618 because I actually play a few 6th gen systems and the 3588 has that extra headroom.
The Chi was weird but wasnt terribad, I think if this os quirky it Will still be worth it

I need a review to make up my mind 😅

[quaint wadi]

Also, the Odin 2 is double the price of this. And for that extra money, you get the more difficult 30% of 3DS/PS2 games, plus half the Switch catalogue, or something along those lines. This should be fine for Gamecube/Wii.

It's better, but this console does make it look like less good value if it turns out to be good.

[quaint wadi]

This is probably good news for you. Retail price only kicks in in December.

So if you want to wait for the reviews, you'll only pay $20 extra.

I'll be blunt. Do not buy this before the reviews come out to save $20. That would be a silly, dumb move.

[tepid cedar]

Well... if it doesn't ship until the end of October, you could cancel if a bad review comes out before then?

[hollow nymph]

Or just wait

[hollow nymph]

This can be the usual legal mumbo jumbo or as spineless as it can get

They pase they revealed details is already shocking

[quaint wadi]

Yeah, they've posted that on the Indie channel. It's not on the Ace page. But as I said over there, it might just not be up because they have not been able to upload it yet. People have already paid, before the disclaimer went up, so clearly they don't feel in a rush to put it up there.

Even if it doesn't go on the Ace page. It's another sign that a company that has released nothing for 2 years and suddenly has game changing specs is something to be a bit concerned about.

[quaint wadi]

It's just a random website from a company in (I assume) a different company to the one you are in. I would put more faith in using a credit card and getting your money back from the credit card provider (depending on who they are), than gameforce refunding you after bad reviews. They don't have to give you a refund.

[hollow nymph]

They might just get sd8 gen2 before launch

[quaint wadi]

Or just save yourself the hassle and wait for the reviews.

[quaint wadi]

The ultimate bait and switch. SURPRISE ODIN 2 SPECS FOR ALL PREORDERS!!!!

[hollow nymph]

Just a small thank you for all the supporters

That saw through the dodgy mess that this release is

When the 3566 is bait lol

[light verge]

This sounds like the device is still not finished and it's hard to belive that it will ship in time

[hollow nymph]

40 quid off as a preorder perk seems like a lot doesnt it?

[quaint wadi]

That bits fine. The first preorder is like the super earlybird stuff on indiegogo. 30% isn't unheard of.

[quaint wadi]

I have no doubt this device is unfinished in many ways. 2 colours, the most basic shell there is, a website that took preorders without giving basic details......
They've clearly rushed, a lot. Even if they do ship in time, I doubt this was their initial plan.

As I said before, I suspect they think Retroid/powkiddy/anbernic have this chip, so they are just trying to sell as many as possible before they announce.

[hollow nymph]

Yes being first is the most important thing in tech. Everybody remembers the first foldable phone that beat samsung to it ...

Ive heard there are quite few players entering the 3588 race

It was nice knowing you T618

[light verge]

I guess it will rain 3588s handhelds next year

[acoustic umbra]

This SOC is very power hungry also. So I would wait to see certain things first

[light verge]

That's true but you won't get ps2/GC emulation otherwise

[quaint wadi]

It may or may not help your brand in the long run. But it will certainly help short term sales if you are the only 3588 game in town.

[quaint wadi]

Maybe. Took over a year for the second t618 (3+) to arrive after the X18S, but covid might have played a role in that.

[quaint wadi]

Luckily, this has a really big battery.....hold on a second.....

[split stag]

thats more about cooling than battery

[tepid cedar]

I mean... by the stats everything about this looks amazing (except maybe the battery). It's really just build quality that is up in the air?

If anything thought, this could set the trend for 3588 devices. If $220 is the final MSRP, I suspect others will be around there too.

if the build quality is half decent though, $167 is going to be a steal

[clear flare]

that was the leaked price of the OPI one

they denied it though

honestly don't love the switch lite form factor on this or the OPI

so I'll probably be waiting for others

[tepid cedar]

i think more main-line producers will launch at ~$220, and $10 off for the preorders, lol

that said, I'd probably wait until October 9th before I consider preordering at the current price

[quaint wadi]

Yes, and build quality can make or (literally break) a console.

But also the way it's turned up. A half arsed website update, taking preorders before confirming details as basic as how big it is...

If this has the specs and good build quality it will be a gamechanger. It just feels like if that were true, this device would have had a better entry into the world than this.

[tepid cedar]

i mean, small companies can surprise you

nobody cared about Miyoo until the Mini... which also had build quality issues, haha

Their details were just a couple days late, I suspect they didn't think people would be watching their site like a hawk.

[dark gorge]

you know... if this has a variable refresh panel, it might be king.

[quaint wadi]

🤷‍♂️ If you take peoples money, you should be ready. If the website wasn't ready, that option should not have been turned on.

[dark gorge]

30-40hz, vsync-locked wii-u and switch would be pretty much lagless.

[quaint wadi]

Nothing against small companies. Ayn did the Odin first time.

But there are warning signs on this one.

[tepid cedar]

I make websites for small clients, they put stuff up while they're working on it all the damn time, lol. What they should do and what they actually do, is not always the same, because they're small.

[quaint wadi]

I'm not sure that is as reassuring as you mean it to be 😄

[dark gorge]

X does bad thing. It's okay because Y also does bad thing.

this is the reasoning you're using.

[tepid cedar]

I'm just saying, small companies do deserve a little bit of slack when it comes to best practices for web.

but I'm also waiting until the most data is available at this price before I preorder

[acoustic umbra]

OH

[tepid cedar]

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

[quaint wadi]

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to wait, there's no downside as opposed to buying now, it won't sell out.

But I doubt must new info will come out between now and the 9th. We now have the specs, we have pictures, we have a video of gameplay on the console.....I doubt there will be much more to know until the reviews hit. Which are a month away at least I imagine.

[dark gorge]

megacity one philosophy. all perps get a body bag.

[tepid cedar]

They probably don't have a proper marketing team, so you've got website amateurs making the call. Best practices are out the window. I'm impressed they have a website at all. Miyoo's website doesn't even have a valid security certificate, lol.

[tepid cedar]

god I love judge dredd comics

[dark gorge]

not everyone can be ayaneo and -overmarket while selling nothing-

[quaint wadi]

Miyoo has a website?

[quaint wadi]

They sell their 300 units per console on indiegogo and are proud to do so.

[dark gorge]

rip, mendocino

[tepid cedar]

From what i've been able to find, this seems to be their official site: https://www.lomiyoo.com/en/index.html

[quaint wadi]

I still say the pocket air was a really good deal. But a lot of their stuff also sells 300ish on IGG, and I can't imagine many people pay full retail on their website later. RRP on the top spec Kun is $2k

[tepid cedar]

Which has many more redflags than the gameforce one, lol

[quaint wadi]

My computer does not like that website

[tepid cedar]

yup, that's what I said about their security certificate being expired

gotta hit "Advanced" and continue anyway

[dark gorge]

ouch

[quaint wadi]

Yeah, I know, just thought it was funny 😄

[quaint wadi]

Even more ouch when you remember the $2k Kun is actually going to deliver basically the same performace as the $700 Rog Ally.

[spiral path]

I mean, reviews aside, every single company in this hobby had issues in their first batches at some point. Anbernic, Retroid, Powkiddy, Miyoo

So yeah, really don't understand preorders for handhelds

[quaint wadi]

I think I could make them a better website than that.

And I don't know how to make a website.

[tepid cedar]

it wouldn't be hard

now go ahead and download some sketchy large firmware files from a site with an invalid security certificate

[dark gorge]

it's either trust sketchy handheld makers or continue hacking your vita/switch/3ds/phone to play old/current stuff. you see the line people are willing to walk in terms of financial risk all the time here.

[tepid cedar]

haha, totally

and I only buy things from 1st party sites like this with a credit card that has a very good charge back policy

[quaint wadi]

Yeah. Everyone draws the line differently.

Personally, I don't mind pre-ordering, but from a company with a good track record of consistant delivery.

[quaint wadi]

And this as well. Credit card won't help you on indiegogo, but for websites like gameforce, you'd be silly not to use a credit card.

IGG, once the campaign is over

https://tenor.com/view/its-in-gods-hand-now-randy-marsh-south-park-s7e7-red-mans-greed-gif-22098541

[acoustic umbra]

I always use a CC for the rewards from using them.

[acoustic umbra]

I hope it is a great handheld

[quaint wadi]

Puts on adult voice

As long as you can deal with the debt responsibly......

[quaint wadi]

Same. I really hope this is the first of the post T618 era.

[acoustic umbra]

I use the CC then login to it and pay it off that day. How I fund most of the family vacations for cheap.

[acoustic umbra]

I really love the T618. I wish there was one with a better 4inch 4:3 screen.

[clear flare]

I literally transfer funds to pay off the CC within 5 minutes of spending money

never carry a balance at all any longer than it takes the payment to transfer (my cc and chequing accounts are with different banks so sometimes that's a few business days)

[quaint wadi]

Best way to use it to be honest.

[quaint wadi]

Yeah, a T618 4inch 4:3 clamshell would be great for me. Basically the flip, but 2/3rds of the size. Dreamcast to fit into even the smallest of pockets.

[acoustic umbra]

I think fitting in all together in the form factor would be hard to do.

[quaint wadi]

Yeah. But I can dream....

[keen lintel]

So.... after watching retro game corps ayaneo Pocket air review this became harder too resist 🙃

[quaint wadi]

Yeah, that was disappointing. Still a great device, but I was hoping for more.

I certainly was not expecting my T618 to do better Saturn than it did 😬

[light verge]

That can't be. Maybe he used a different emulator?

[keen lintel]

Saturn was disheartening to watch..

[quaint wadi]

3/4 of the catalogue played at 1x. Issue with compatability with the yaba sanshiro emu.

https://youtu.be/oW_ClEoEoRw?feature=shared&t=1498

I think it runs PS2 better than in runs Saturn 😄

Which is not something I ever expected to say.

Sega Saturn...still flipping awkward in 2023.

[flint path]

He's using the retroarch version which is known to perform worse than standalone

Even without Vulkan

[quaint wadi]

He switched to the standalone midway through, it was worse.

[flint path]

https://tenor.com/view/something-is-very-wrong-here-stan-south-park-sketchy-somethings-not-right-gif-20754104

[quaint wadi]

Compatability with chip set issues, not the chipset itself

Russ has been in this game long enough to know to try standalone yaba 😄

[gleaming shore]

What's the difference between the 3588 vs 3588s

[half oar]

3588 has more pcie lanes I think

Also the 3588S only supports one HDMI and one display port output vs 2 of each in the regular 3588

None of this matters for its use as a handheld so the 3588S is just a cost optimized version of the 3588

[tepid cedar]

isn't this the same chip rumored to be on the 406/506?

the D1200

[quaint wadi]

It is the D1200. I don't know about those rumours though, so.....maybe 🤷‍♂️

Basically Aya were going to go a lot of D1200 devices, and then got offered an unexpectedly good deal on the new snap dragon chips. Which was great, but then meant they needed to offload the d1200's. So they are making 1.2k units of the pocket air, and after that, they are not making any more, as they are just doing it to use up the chips. Not even selling them at a profit, they are just avoiding a loss.

[gleaming shore]

i did see in the specs that we can install m.2 on it?

that would be so awesom

cheap storage

[half oar]

I mean SD cards are cheaper than 2242 cards

But fast storage, yes

Maybe not a 1TB SD card these days

[keen lintel]

🤯I hadnt noticed that yet, that's pretty cool actually

[quaint wadi]

They are in the UK.

Good 2242 cards that would work are this sort of price.

https://www.newegg.com/global/uk-en/visiontek-2tb-dlx4/p/N82E16820367137

I can get two 2tb SD cards for that and still have change.

It's more expensive than the ACE itself 😬

[half oar]

That's what I was thinking. I didn't 2242 card prices had crashed like 2280s did

[gleaming shore]

i have a 512gb 2242 on hand for my loki mini pro (which i cancelled)

gotta use it somehow!

[half oar]

I have a 512 2230 from my steam deck. Or I could pull the 2tb 2230 out of my deck 🤔

[gleaming shore]

yea man, solid storage, without the need to pull it in and out all the time (which can damage)

but i wonder how it would work on this device

im thinking its not a simple: install, format and it would work

[quaint wadi]

The Legion Go uses the same SSD (2242). A lot of the people over there seem to think the 2230 would work with an extender on the Go. Dunno if this has any space constraints which would mean it wouldn't work, but maybe?

2230 is way cheaper

[half oar]

Yeah I'm thinking an extender should work...

.

[quaint wadi]

There's something to be said for having more memory internal. You always have it available etc.

But with the 2242, I struggle to justify why it's worth the faff of opening it up and potentially damaging something to put in storage that is more expensive than just buying an SD card. Loads of stories on the Ayaneo forum of people changing SSD and knocking out audio and stuff 😬

[quaint wadi]

Yeah, that sort of thing is what they think might work. 2230+ an extender is way cheaper than a 2242.

[half oar]

Transfer speed is the only advantage I can think of

Which should only really be important when first loading up the internal storage with roms

[quaint wadi]

🤷‍♂️

Yeah. Really no advantage.

[half oar]

I'm curious about the math here. 30 + 18 ≠ 42

Oh I guess it slides about 6mm in when connected

[quaint wadi]

If you really want a project, you could try and get 4tb in there, Rod Ally modder style 😄

As it appears, it is still possible to free up some space inside the console for a higher-capacity M.2-2280 SSD by destroying removing stiffening ribs, moving antenna out of the way, and isolating the drive. This will get you up to 4 TB of storage space using a single-sided M.2-2280 SSD, but will void the warranty as removal of stiffening ribs is an irreversible change.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/18941/modders-equip-asus-rog-ally-with-4-tb-m2-2280-ssd

All SSD and no SD cards makes Rog Ally fans dull boys.

[half oar]

I wonder if there's an m.2 to sd card adapter 🤔

SD cards are back on the menu boys

Oh wait maybe it's keyed wrong

There's some B keyed ones as well that should work

[quaint wadi]

Has anyone ever opened up their computer to put in an SD card???

I guess if you just have some lying around.

This is dumb. But would still be cheaper than buying a 2242 🤷‍♂️

[gleaming shore]

i have

[quaint wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

[gleaming shore]

and yes it would be cheaper than buying a 2242, but some of us already have one ON hand

[half oar]

Some mini PCs have internal SD card slots for primary storage

[quaint wadi]

Ohh, ok. Mini PC's are a world I know nothing about

[half oar]

Not usually an x86 one

But some of the arm mini PCs

[quaint wadi]

I didn't even know there were arm mini pc's

This stuff is not really my world 🤷‍♂️

I am learning though.

[half oar]

SBC is the better word probably. Like the 3588 boards (banana pi has one)

[gleaming shore]

Linux on this device when

[clear flare]

Ask gameforce to send jelos dev units (including the kernel devs that hang out over there so we can get mainline)

[gleaming shore]

already asked

so linux on this device when

[dark gorge]

speaking of which, anyone here have an rk3566 or 3588 mini pc?

[half oar]

I've got a NanoPi R5S (3568) and a NanoPi R6S (3588S) that I've never taken out of the boxes

[velvet niche]

it’s probably been mentioned above already, but …have we been given an expected release date yet?

[velvet niche]

Sweet! Thanks

[velvet niche]

Can anyone point me towards the gameforce discord channel?
If one exists...

[vital fossil]

I don't believe one exists

[velvet niche]

No worries! Just curious 🤷

[vital fossil]

Yeah! They've only had 1 device so it's not hard to see why they don't have it

[lyric pecan]

And the Chi made almost no waves. Gameforce wasn't really on any one's radar until last week.

[jade hemlock]

Shame, it would be great if somebody could get them to confirm that there will be an unlocked bootloader

[gleaming shore]

i think a bunch of us sent email to check if it is open source/unlocked bootloader

see what they say

im super torn. on one side i want this device coz it is the big nice (hopefully) linux device i've been wanting

but on the other the RGB10 pro max 3 is already that. with dpad on top mainly, so it slike the perfect psp replacement

[half oar]

There will be more 3588S in the future

[gleaming shore]

Anbernic device: with 552 screen

perfect device

[clear flare]

Anbernic I think is going Android only going forward outside of outright clones like the funkey/nano

[past lintel]

I didn't realize Jelos already had a 3588 branch.

[delicate prairie]

just noticed no rumble or gyro mentioned on the product page

[clear flare]

Tbf until recently they didn’t even have screen res on the product page so who knows

[dark gorge]

it's an sbc driven by LineageOS with a blower assembly, controller, and screen stapled to it all mounted together by a 3d-printed shell. we're not getting top of the line here

Gameforce, for all intensive purposes, is one dude. That said, he's a lot more cautious about final quality than niluanxy

[lost ether]

Do you think that Indie battery life would be better? It's just a lower spec CPU/RAM with the same battery

[clear flare]

probably depends on the task - indie battery life on something really easy like gbc could be better because the 3566 may have a lower minimum wattage draw, but for something like n64 that is hard for the 3566 but easy for the 3588 the 3588 may come out ahead, or it may not - you'd need pretty detailed testing of various tasks

[lost ether]

Ok, so I realized that the ACE proc is the same 4 cores of the Indie + 4 more powerful cores. Easy tasks should draw the same amount of battery, I guess.

[clear flare]

as long as the firmware allows you to park the cores you aren't using fully

[lost ether]

You know, I am trying to convince myself that I made the right call pre-ordering the Indie and not the ACE. Because at best the Indie will be a good quality low end device (which is fine for me, I don't want more), while ACE could unlock ps2/gc (well... I have no idea but some people say that it should) and here comes FOMO.

I am pretty sure I am going to email gameforce to change my order before the night...

[light verge]

Ps2/GC will be pretty good on the ace but battery life won't be the best. Maybe 3-4 hours max for ps2/gc

[quaint wadi]

Who knows. Russ was getting 8-9 hours on a PS2 game at 2.5x res with the pocket air. That's got a battery that's a third bigger than this, but with the same sized screen.

You can never really tell until the console is tested.

https://twitter.com/RetroGameCorps/status/1705281243997405204

Retro Game Corps (@RetroGameCorps)

Regarding battery life on the Pocket Air: playing DQ8 at 2.5x resolution in Performance Mode (max CPU clocks) for an hour resulted in an 11% decrease in battery. Fan speed was set to low and CPU temp stayed at 42C. I would expect about 8-9 hours of battery in this scenario.

Likes

167

▶ Play video

Twitter · Sep 22, 2023, 6:01 PM

[dark gorge]

it's the same on the gpd xp+

not sure about that bleached fetus color scheme though

[lost ether]

If it's 3-4 hours for high demanding gaming, that would not be bad imo.

[quaint wadi]

It comes with different coloured joystick caps (red, and I think black), so I guess they know a lot of people don't like the condom sticks.

[quaint wadi]

I know people hate on handhelds for bad battery life, but really, how many people are away from a plug in a setting where they can play games for 3-4 hours at a time?

I haven't seen battery life as an issue since rechargable AA's became affordable.

[light verge]

I'm not saying 3-4 hours for demanding stuff is bad but I wouldn't expect much more or you could be dissapointed.

[dusty shadow]

Tbf even the switch has a similar battery with really demanding games.

[kindred matrix]

what are those games? I'm getting 5.5h playing BotW

[dusty shadow]

Oh with v1 switches the battery isn't great, I forgot there were multiple versions. The V2/OLED are much stronger battery wise

[lost ether]

Some news from GameForce #1153356411934343228 message

[spiral path]

https://discord.gg/Pz3XqnwS

Very barebones, but here it is

[gray barn]

They should keep the logo and make it neon green again.

[clear flare]

The device or the logo?

[gray barn]

The device sorry lol

[half oar]

Nope get rid of it

You can buy a sticker if you want it

[gray barn]

Nope. Ugly logo. Ugly colour. All in. Dill with it everyone.

[hollow nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/pickle-dill-with-it-gif-8229752

[velvet niche]

Sweet! Thank you, kindly!

[sterile totem]

https://gameforce.fun/blogs/news/controller-boards-and-full-cnc-heatsink

Credit to gameforce discord. Just want to share here.

[acoustic umbra]

Wish this didn't saye gameforce on it.

[clear flare]

Good news: they’re considering removing it

[acoustic umbra]

Oh I must of missed that. Would be a great idea.

[dawn sentinel]

Anyone have discord link?

[quaint wadi]

https://discord.gg/dEp7xSmh

I'll be honest though, it is the least effort attempt at a discord you will ever find.

[kindred matrix]

What was the power comparison between this and a D1200 again?

Or this and the 845

The $160 pre order price is looking juicy, but the $220 final price seems like way too much for what this is, no?

[quaint wadi]

Not as powerful.

It'll be similar in performance to the Pimax or Odin Pro.

[kindred matrix]

Oh

Yeah ain't no way this is worth $220 then lmao

[quaint wadi]

🤷‍♂️ $220 is still a lot cheaper than the Pimax or Odin Pro.

[quaint wadi]

But also looks a bit rushed, so I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope for good out of the box software.

Or build quality, judging from the pics.

My advice would still eb to wait for some reviews before jumping in. And if this is still worth it to you after the reviews, then great.

[kindred matrix]

The Odin Lite is $220 and has the same performance as the Pro tho

According to Russ

And apparently the Anbernic D1200 is going to be sub-$200

But yeah I'm in no rush

My plan is to save up for a deck (which will probably take me 4-5 months more)

[quaint wadi]

Uhh, there's not a huge difference, but the lite isn't as powerful as the original Odin, let alone the Pro.
Still just going from some GC to a lot of GC, so I can see why someone would see it as similar.

[kindred matrix]

And if anything comes out in the meantime that can play 100% of GC and PS2 at 720p, has great controls and ergonomics and costs under $200, I'll buy that

But if that doesn't happen, I'll just get the Deck instead. 😛

[quaint wadi]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[kindred matrix]

Same tbh

Right now I was interested in the Ayaneo thing, but it was too expensive

And the Odin 2 looks sweet, but... At $360 retail + shipping + EU tax it's going to cost me $480.

For comparison, Steam Deck with tax and Shipping included would cost me $450 LOL

[quaint wadi]

Then you are waiting for SDG2/D1200 chip at under $200, well, you could be waiting a few years.

The Deck will only just do 100% of PS2 at at least 1x, and even then has to compromise on other specs to make it.

[kindred matrix]

Wdym, I saw people running GoW 2 at 3x res no problem on the Deck lol

The main problem that makes Android handhelds much less desirable than the Deck is Android

Even if an 8Gen2 device would be better at emulation than the deck (), it still can't do anything besides emulation

[quaint wadi]

Dirge of cerberus won't run on steam deck without turning off a lot of settings.

[quaint wadi]

I mean, they can do Android stuff as well. And have much better battery life and can have a smaller form factor, due to producing less heat.

But they also miss out on Wii U/PS3/Xbox/Xbox 360 emulation, and PC stuff, obviously.

It's not better or worse, just a trade off 🤷‍♂️

[kindred matrix]

Name one good Android game, though

I do prefer ARM chips for the battery life

As long as they can run Linux

[quaint wadi]

I meant stuff you would normally do on an android tablet. But yes, there are android games as well.

[kindred matrix]

Android is a horrible operating system (I'm unfortunately typing this on an Android phone)

[quaint wadi]

Oh, I am staying well away from Android/linux/windows/steam debates 😛

[kindred matrix]

Genshin Impact is probably the least predatory when it comes to monetisation out of all the "good" Android games and that's one hell of a statement 😛

I'm an Apple user, but obviously for gaming that's not ideal

I made the mistake of choosing the Pixel 7 over the iPhone 12 Pro last year and uh I'm suffering

[light verge]

android is pretty much the perfect smartphone os imo

but terrible for everything else

[grand arrow]

I’d say Vampire Survivors is a good game with optional DLC, and Iron Marines was real fun too!

[kindred matrix]

Agree to disagree. But it's mainly the quality of apps that's an issue for me. iOS apps tend to be more polished, better optimised and have fewer ads in them.

I'm using AdGuard on Android and still somehow getting more ads than I did on iOS LOL

[quaint wadi]

FYI, you know how the Odin 2 is powerful enough to run all switch games, at least in handheld mode, but it only does about 20% of them or whatever, due to the emulator?

I suspect that's sort of true for the RK3588 and PS2. Once we get well optimised PS2 emulation, I think the RK3588 will be enough to do all of it. But obviously, it's not there right now.

[clear flare]

Unfortunately there is no true ps2 emulator development on arm right now. NetherSX2 is just hacking a closed source aether blob since they don’t have the aether source code to make real under the hood improvements - somebody is going to have to fork pcsx2 again as a proper FOSS project, catch up to aether in optimization, and then continue to improve before we see any arm ps2 software advancements.

[quaint wadi]

Yup. It's a pain.

[kindred matrix]

That's why buying an expensive Android device feels so bad.

You get better battery life than an x86 handheld, yes, but the emulators are not nearly as well optimised and the native games SUCK

[lost ether]

But you have game pass

[quaint wadi]

Also, smaller sizes. I mean that in a good way.

[kindred matrix]

On Windows yes, not on Android

[lost ether]

With ultimate you have the game pass cloud, with very decent games here.

[kindred matrix]

Ah no, I don't do streaming.

If I can't run a game locally, I just wait until I have money for better hardware.

[lost ether]

In that case, you have indeed very few options, because they don't care about proper controller support and because nobody wants to buy a game on android, so you have in-app purchase or ads (or both).

[kindred matrix]

Yeah

And since I refuse to play games with ads, that limits the pool even more 😅

[grand arrow]

I’m cautiously optimistic about streaming. I’ve had surprisingly bad experiences, like the lag of trying to airplay video on a local network, Sony’s official PS Remote Play app… but I also used a cloud streaming app somewhen back in 2008-9 ish which let me play on a really old PowerMac laptop G4, you’d think it would be worse but actually it felt great and I was super impressed playing Crysis 1 and 2 on it. GeForce Now was pretty good too, but I haven’t tried it in awhile.

[kindred matrix]

the only remotely decent streaming experience I had was OnLive LMAO

[grand arrow]

If you get a chance at a free trial of Gamepass (or GeForce Now), I say give it a shot!

[kindred matrix]

but still

I like to own my games and my hardware

[grand arrow]

I feel ya, I still buy physical copies when I can. Just saying.

[brazen kayak]

@sullen ether welcome to the discord

[heavy notch]

Just got a shipment email!!!!

Way sooner than i expected

[tacit basalt]

Just got it too. No tracking number though. I am wondering if it was sent by mistake.

[heavy notch]

🙏 hope not

[quaint wadi]

Well, I hope it goes well anyway

[heavy notch]

Apparently this is correct. They are indeed shipping. Tracking info going on later

[drifting dawn]

Wasn't someone just saying that they might remove the name off the screen like a day or so ago, and now we are into shipping???

[quaint wadi]

Gameforce gonna force you to game before you even want to.

[clear flare]

Yeah they said they hadn’t decided and I have yet to see a non-3D printed unit lol

I don’t think this has actually shipped to anyone

[heavy notch]

We are the beta testers 😂

[vernal shard]

It would probably have to be a consideration for later units to not delay the launch, idk

[drifting dawn]

Fairy enuff - if they turn up with duct tape across the logo, please let me know 😉

[light verge]

I just got an email saying they made a shipping label

[modern tundra]

Just spoke to them via email, still working on dev units and off for the holiday, but will be sending me a preview unit when it's ready

So some good news!

I just read up - guessing the shipment notices are a mistake if they're just working on dev units right now

[quaint wadi]

That's a shame. Would have been great to see what the RK3588 can do. I really want to see how it handles wii emulation and heat.

I.e. explore the possibility of smaller form factors with something powerful enough to cover GC/Wii emulation.

I'm not buying this thing, but I really want it to be successful.

[clear flare]

This is how a feel about a lot of handhelds these days. I’m pretty happy with what I have but newer cooler shit is still super exciting

[grand arrow]

Maybe they want a lot of prototype reviews LOL

[lost ether]

Someone rightfully suggested to just watch RK3588S SBC review, and there are a lot of them. Taki has one or two.

[lost ether]

I watched one and I have mixed feelings. I am not convinced enough to actually order the ACE

[quaint wadi]

Yeah, it'll be good to see it with different heat/ram/software set ups though.

[zenith moat]

Caved in and put in a pre-order for the Ace. The small discount with the OBSCURE coupon tipped me over the edge haha. Plus I checked my account and had more in my personal spending budget than I thought. Forgot another month had ticked over now haha ...

If it gets supported by JELOS, that'll be excellent. If not, I'll do my best to live with Android and sell it if I can't stand it.

Came to $277.59 AUD shipped in case anyone in Aus is wondering

[zenith moat]

Hmmm so the nvme 2242 m.2 interface must be PCIe 2.1, since the PCIe 3.0 lanes are dropped on the RK3588s (vs RK3588)

[lost ether]

How much is shipping to AU?

[zenith moat]

$15 US

So like $24 / $25 AUD

[lost ether]

😭 I paid 25 usd to ship to france (which can't be right, retroid charges 15 usd for their handheld)

I'll simulate a new order and check if prices changed. I know that shipping options changed a lot at the beggining...

[zenith moat]

Right

Strange yeah

[lost ether]

And I didn't know there was the OBSCURE code, so I really took the full supporter pack 😅

[zenith moat]

I was surprised it worked!

Half surprised

[lost ether]

And I thought about it later: when purchasing with paypal, I think it's better to get a usd account, send the amount needed, and pay with that balance. That way, you can ask refund and the refund won't have usd <-> whatever conversion fee. That's the other part where I screwed myself: paid with paypal, but using my credit card: can't change my order or I will lose 10 euros with euros.

[zenith moat]

Ahhhh that's a gotcha

I used PayPal but paid in USD and got my bank exchange rate plus fee

Was $3 cheaper that way

I hope it's good, cost $200 AUD more than my RG35XX and that's excellent

[lost ether]

Nope, it doesn't seem to be a mistake...

[zenith moat]

Hmmm, I don't think Aus is that much closer than France

[dull turtle]

to china?

[gleaming shore]

its actually shipping?

wtf

that is fast

[quaint wadi]

Nope

#1103790234451324928 message

[zenith moat]

Yeah

[sly vector]

👀👀👀

[foggy niche]

nice

[clear flare]

[foggy niche]

tbh the logo is starting to grow on me

[brazen kayak]

If I was a marketing guy for this I would edit together a video of the Nintendo 64 kid getting his Nintendo for Christmas, and change it to Game Fooooooooooorce

[foggy niche]

they should put it on the handheld as large as possible

[brazen kayak]

People really be putting up with obnoxious front-facing branding, just because of the price to performance

[clear flare]

We don’t know yet whether they kept the screen bezel logo

[vernal shard]

wait WHAT

[sly vector]

might just be the indie

he only held it in front of the camera without commenting on it

[vernal shard]

why would he do that
@honest pelican how could you do that 😭

[light verge]

GameForce Delivers!

[brazen kayak]

I feel like somehow you could edit the Berserk song Forces into GameForce as like a theme song

Hai Yai Game Foooorce
Hai Yai Game Fooooooooooorce

[honest pelican]

🤣 That's just the Chi

[sly vector]

Don’t tell em 🤫

[light verge]

Heck I've been using the Chi lately, it runs way better with the recent versions of Emuelec then what it had 2 years ago

[vernal shard]

god DANG it I've been bamboozled

[dark gorge]

emuelec has gotten better, tbh. so has batocera

[light verge]

A lot of games that people were struggling to run 2 years ago on CHI are running a lot better now, I need to test a few more like donkey kong 64

[split stag]

I wonder how many lanes do they use, but I guess we will get 2. Or maybe even 1

[jade hemlock]

Any chance we will see a preview/review before the early bird closes? Guessing it's unlikely

[acoustic umbra]

One more day for the preorder. Do we wait?

[thorn marsh]

Yep

[zenith moat]

Jump on it! (I may eat my words when the reviews come out ...). Looking forward to using it for Dosbox when it ships.

Edit: and Dreamcast ...

[foggy niche]

Solidigm™ P41 Plus Series 2TB PCIe GEN 4 NVMe 4.0 x4 M.2 2280 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (2TB, M.2 80mm, PCIe 4.0 x4) SSDPFKNU020TZX1 https://a.co/d/h6uUijt

65$

worth to pick one up for the ace?

crap, wrong size sorry

[forest hatch]

The ace doesn't support nvme gen 4 speed anyway

https://youtu.be/fHQ1GpYRHPo?t=12m6s

Its pcie 2.1

[split stag]

Apparently 1 lane. So I guess if this supports sata drives, you can pick whatever, it will be about the same

[zenith moat]

From the board photos on the Gameforce site it looks like an M key ... So no SATA support unless I'm mistaken.

[dark gorge]

i assume the rk3588 on battery power will have the same issues as the s922x/a311d on battery power.

either the firmware will handle soc-starvation at low battery settings in linux by scaling max output, or it will be hit&miss and the system will shutdown midgame when it reaches ~25-30%. 12w tdp soc... 😕

[zenith moat]

When you say 'scaling max output', you mean down-clocking to run at lower voltage?

[dark gorge]

Yep

[zenith moat]

Price is still showing up as $160 US for me strangely.

[dark gorge]

android is pretty good at voltage control, so that's a relief.

[zenith moat]

Yeah I'm realising there's a few plus points to Lineage vs Linux CFW

Power management, Vulkan, PS2 emulation, Steam Link

[dark gorge]

the reason we've been bugging notime2d8 to add joy2mouse controls to LineageOS for ogu, tbh.

[dark gorge]

that and android ports which run way better than emulation

[zenith moat]

Wait I'm wrong, there is PS2 emulation for ARM Linux. Not a big Android fan for emulation, but LineageOS is the best form of Android IMO.

[clear flare]

open source linux > open source android > closed source android > closed source linux imo

since at least closed source android you usually can debloat and configure a decent bit even when confined to userspace

[lost ether]

Does closed source linux exists? Because the linux kernel itself is GPL, so any derivative can only be distributed under GPL-compliant license. Of course, some parts, such as emulators or drivers can be closed-source, but the system itself isn't likely to be closed source, and closed source can be replaced with open ones if it exists.

[clear flare]

Loads of closed source Linux firmwares in this scene unfortunately

Most stock firmwares for example

[lost ether]

Obviously, you just have to ignore rules and you can distribute closed source Linux...

[clear flare]

You are right that they are obligated to share sources, but many of them do not because they’re a small company in China that the free software foundation is unlikely to pursue

Technically the same applies to android kernel sources etc too

[lost ether]

I honestly don't see the point doing so. Because community always fixes their bugs for free when it can, and enhance their device.

Unless you have something to hide because you are doing nasty things in your OS. But I won't believe there is something to hide from competitor devices, really...

[charred tulip]

One concern is sharing the source makes it easier for other companies to clone a device. It happened to ODroid and FunKey S several times.

Or in the worst case the device itself contains cloned code.

[split stag]

something tells me this guy banks on being the first with 3588s handheld, so he will probably have reasonable success regardless

[clear flare]

not sharing source on a well documented SoC is only gonna make cloning your device mildly more inconvenient

like the only thing you're doing is preventing them from using your screen and controls kernel stuff

which they can't use if they don't use the exact same screen anyway

it would be one thing if you somehow were the first to get the GPU working on a t618 in linux and didn't want to share that code (still wrong under the terms of the linux license)

but thinking denying your screen driver is gonna stop someone from cloning your shit is naive

[zenith moat]

So good reading the Q&A on the Gameforce Discord this morning, really great to have some communication and more details

[zenith moat]

Particularly about the display choice ... seems it started off as a concept with a 4:3 display, but just couldn't find actual screens to use to deliver the concept.

[clear flare]

Yeah, its a shame but it seems like finding 4:3 screens higher res than 640x480 is very hard

960x720 is my holy grail res

Integer scales basically every system I give a shit about very well

[zenith moat]

Huh! Trying to work out how large the screen is in the flesh. My Motorola Edge 30 Fusion has a 20:9 6.55" 1080p screen. Using https://shauninman.com/utils/screens/ it turns out that for 16:9 and 4:3 content the viewable area is identical to the Gameforce Ace. Very helpful exercise!

[clear flare]

http://www.displaywars.com/5,5-inch-16x9-vs-7-inch-16x10

Display wars is great for size comparisons

Here looking at the ACE vs the steam deck

Doesn’t do anything with resolution, which is where I love Shaun’s screen util

[zenith moat]

Yeah that one reveals straight away that my phone has the same size screen as the Gameforce Ace, with just some extra (useless) width.

http://www.displaywars.com/5,5-inch-16x9-vs-6,55-inch-d{20x9}

[clear flare]

5.5” 16:9 is also where you start to get into being a bigger display area than any of the 4:3 screens on the market even for 4:3 content

Outside of #1139926082640941116

[lyric pecan]

5.5-6" 16:9 is my goldilocks spot. Not too big, not too small. And PSP/DS is

[zenith moat]

I'm just dreaming perhaps ... but I wonder how this will go with Winlator? If it could run Need for Speed Porsche Unleashed / 2000 (with the OpenGL renderer patch from Verok), that would be amazing.

[jade hemlock]

Why use winlator when you could run Linux on the device and use box86/64 directly?

I haven't seen any benchmarks but it makes sense to think that winlator adds a decent amount of overhead

[zenith moat]

If / when ... Can only rely on Lineage OS support for the time being.

[jade hemlock]

I think the likelihood of Linux support on this is high

[split stag]

indeed, jelos devs are promised with dev kits

[versed pond]

Anybody got a working link to the gameforce discord? The one on their website isnt working

[sterile totem]

https://discord.com/invite/F86HcPjP

[dark gorge]

I hope the indie also gets 2166mhz ram.

[light verge]

From what I remember reading, the Indie will have 1866 Mhz but I can't find where it was stated. I wonder if I can slip the question to Gao, hopefully gets through all 100,000 messages from everyone else asking for the gameforce logo to be removed lol

[dark gorge]

Hmmm... I guess its going to be better than every other rk3566 at the very least with a slightly-above-50% memory bottleneck

All other units on the market are at 38%

[light verge]

It'll be the best 3566 on the market if the indie gets the 2166mhz

At least to my knowledge

You have a good point about the bottleneck with the clock speeds on the ram being an issue

[dark gorge]

If they put in four 1gb chips, all clocked at 1866, that would be one thing. You'd get a true 1:1 i/o ratio and lose no speed on the board itself.

[light verge]

Funny thing happened, at least within the last hour, the Indies pre-order page is completely gone. I wonder if Gao is updating it now

Might have sold out and the page was removed, very strange

[dark gorge]

hoo boy

RIP

[clear flare]

Apes are gone

[lyric pecan]

Nah this kind of thing is pretty normal for small businesses. They updated the site with missing details and placeholder text when the new consoles were announced. I wouldn't stress about it.

[dark gorge]

Gao was like "oh shi- forgot we canceled the indie!" (Deletes entire html file)

[gleaming shore]

wait

is this cancelled

[sly vector]

yes, the factory that was supposed to produce the gameforce ace was attacked by the flying spaghetti monster

prayers go out to injured factory workers and their families 😔

[lost ether]

We don't know yet, but I guess it could be that. Seems like he already is quite busy with the ACE (checking that no mistakes were made on pcb). I guess that having two boards is twice the trouble, and Indie did probably not interest people as much as ACE.

I hope it's nothing, because if my order is refunded, I am likely to lose like 10 euros because of paypal conversion fees for nothing 😓

But I guess it's the deal with pre-orders...

[queen osprey]

Website is working for me not that I want to preorder but I am interested to see how the chip does .Seems too cheap otherwise anbernic at retroid would have 3588 devices on the go

[lyric pecan]

I think Gameforce just beat Anbernic and Powkiddy to market. Those two will definitely have 3588 options, and the Orange Pi was announced with that processor but has gone silent since then.

3588 is going to be like 3566 ad T618, it'll be all over the place soon.

[clear flare]

I don’t know if that’s true. Thermals on the 3588 might preclude it’s use in pocketable handhelds and anbernic has expressed interest in going mediatek instead

Powkiddy will probably make a 3588

But I imagine anbernic will probably use the same chip as retroid’s next one which should be revealed soon

[lyric pecan]

True, Retroid's thing is pocketable devices so they may never pick up the 3588. But I think Powkiddy absolutely will, especially if they can meet or beat Gameforce's price.

[light verge]

The website was fine, it was just the Indies preorder page is missing, and people on the Gameforce Discord are starting lose their minds, threatening chargebacks because the page is missing. Also they want an update, but I suspect we'll get one by wednesday.

[lost ether]

Some forget that the gameforce (afaiu mainly one guy) has better to do than chatting on discord. He did a Q&A live like one week ago, probably around 2AM in his timezone. But people want "daily updates" 🤷

[sterile totem]

Well he promise emulation demo videos during the q&a. That has not happened.

People dont want another kt-r1 situation.

[zenith moat]

That screenshot shows the Chi though

[weary skiff]

My bad, i never owned Chi, I assume that was the one…. 😂

I deleted the message to avoid confusion… thanks for pointing out

[zenith moat]

Honestly, Gameforce has proven to be a reliable company with the Chi, this isn't their first device. It'll get there, better late (and working) than never (or full of bugs).

[abstract wind]

I want the ACE so bad, I need someone somewhere to get an early unit and show it off

[sly vector]

From 1 hour ago

[light verge]

I am going to ask Gao about the buttons, if we're getting dome or membrane, I rather have dome based on the limitations we had with the chi.

[lost ether]

I don't know if it helps

[abstract wind]

I'm just happy it continues to exist

[light verge]

I am going to imagine traditional as in dome buttons then, aha membrane is more of a modern design

[clear flare]

silicone pad I assume means rubber membrane

[sterile totem]

I wanted to hop in for the early bird but decided not to due to potential for delay. Being one man team and all.

[light verge]

Sounds like GF is now using a different company for the molds, so we should see a quality boost. As I can attest the quality of the pads on the CHI weren't that great, and since the sizing and buttons were so odd, I couldn't find anything close to replace them with. But I will admit the CHI is still my daily driver handheld, been knocking out a lot of crazy Retro Achievements lately on it lol.

[clear flare]

I think the prototype shells were 3d prints

[light verge]

Yeah, Thats right! The early review models were really bad, but were improved on the actual release, but still lacked the tactile effect you'd hope for from a neogeo pocket/GBA lookalike haha

Looks like the Indie might be actually in the trash, but he is considering sending indie backers the ACE to make up for the cancelation thats pretty big

[lost ether]

And that would be great (for me 😈)

[deft ocean]

lucky you

[sterile totem]

Gameforce is giving free upgrades to calm the backers. Since they will miss the NOV shipping date. Not happening during christmas since china also celebrate christmas now a day. I think this may be shipped after chinese new year. The favorite holiday that manufacturers like to "delay" their product release. Lot of fluff in thr chat. He promised videos in the first q&a and I have not seen any.

[lost ether]

Q&A notes: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1160692973294583949/1166842741330804837/1_Question_Answer_25102023.md?ex=654bf5fc&is=653980fc&hm=26e81a4a714be50c6b2ea37be0e7c90a82a704937474675d77be57f284366174&

(note mine)

[zenith moat]

Would be kind of incredible to have pre-ordered the Indie and get upgraded to the Ace as compensation for the Indie being cancelled.

Don't mind this being delayed until next year regardless, but double the storage and newer Android with OTA updates are definitely nice to have.

Others may be in more of a rush to get the Ace I suppose

[sterile totem]

I mean that is how these one man team drag it out. I will buy it full price. Dont want to tie up money up front. Check your credit card for chargeback period. Just saying.

[forest hatch]

I was excited because this would be my first handheld purchase and already expected that there will be delays, but experiencing it myself kills the hype a little bit

I guess this is the true retro handheld experience

I think I will just get the MM+ for the time being

[foggy niche]

as a first purchase, I think this will be a rocky journey

I mean, it already is, 2+ delays already

[forest hatch]

I'm fine waiting if the product is decent

If it's another KTR1 then I will bail

The MM+ will fill the void in the meantime

[foggy niche]

with ktr1 there was an update every 1 month and it was usually a 1 month delay

GF is a bit better on the communication it seems, but still delays

[forest hatch]

I was not following the KTR1 very closely but I've heard the end product comes with lots of issues

If there's another RK3588 handheld coming then I could change my mind

[lyric pecan]

MM+ is a great device. You'll be happy with it, and even once you get a bigger, more powerful device like the ACE the MM+ still has a place as being ultra-portable. It's my 'errand and quickplay' device. It's a shame the ACE got delayed, but after being a KT-R1 backer and the debacle that was, I am very suspect of any one-man product.

And there will 100% be more 3588 devices coming. I was really excited for the ACE, but then the Odin 2 was announced, so...

[deft ocean]

I wonder how orange pi is doing with their upcoming rk3588 handheld

[weary skiff]

I receive notification that my order is in the way…

Not sure if it really shipped…

[deft ocean]

a few days earlier peeps mentioned they received that notification too but it turned out to be a false alarm

[weary skiff]

😭

[unkempt patrol]

It's delayed till Christmas or New Years sadly but it's a one man team so I guess I can't complain too much... really wanted to play on it before next year

[lost ether]

There is a new entry blog (also, you can check the previous blog post about the false shipment notification).

https://gameforce.fun/blogs/news/estimated-shipping-date-compensation-for-delay-os-update-to-android-13-ota-and-more

It looks like GF is having hard time doing the ACE.

Not sure GameForce team promised too much, we will try out best to bring a good device with good user experience to you all.

[timber dawn]

Looks like all pre-orders get the storage bump, and not just the pre-price change orders?

[neon kernel]

Still haven't heard anything on Indie orders, a ~$90 Ace upgrade for them would be crazy compared to the what ~$20? emmc upgrade for Ace orders? But maybe there wasn't many Indie orders (hence the cancelation).

[static arch]

Yeah I pre-ordered the Ace and am wondering if they are actually going to deliver on this.

To GF's credit, he was surprisingly responsive when contacted via the email address found on the website.

[static arch]

My understanding is that the Indie has been canceled entirely and those orders will be upgraded to the base level Ace device.

[static arch]

I think all Ace pre-orders get the storage bump.

Which I'm not really sure how helpful that would be if you were planning to keep all of your ROMs on a separate SD card anyway.

[timber dawn]

Lol, for a half a second I thought you were doing a your mom joke

[static arch]

I was confused by this but then saw that "ROMs" was auto changed to Moms 😅

Sorry for the confusion

[timber dawn]

No worries, made me laugh

[long cape]

Nope 😊

Bruh, with Linux Support these Handhelds will be lit as fuck.

[clear flare]

yeah I don't see a better linux handheld dropping to obsolete the ACE anytime too too son

[acoustic umbra]

When. As far as I knew these were running Android.

[clear flare]

this will definitely get a linux distro

[acoustic umbra]

only

[clear flare]

just needs to exist first lol

[acoustic umbra]

If they come out.

[clear flare]

jelos intends to support whatever 3588 handhelds come their way

[acoustic umbra]

I am glad I pump the brakes on it.

even anbernics?

kidding

[long cape]

@acoustic umbra GameForce said they'll try to get the JELOS Team to work on the GameForce ACE and maybe the GameForce Indie too.

[clear flare]

I would love to see anbernic try to jump on the 3588 bandwagon then see the consequences of their failure to appreciate the dev community when it flops compared to orangepi and gameforce, but I think instead they'll just stick with android going forward to XX6

[clear flare]

the indie got cancelled

[gentle delta]

i wonder what he was thinking making the most generic looking 3566 ever

at least the ace is special just for its chip

[long cape]

@clear flare When?

[acoustic umbra]

I will wait the OGU and Max3 are still not there yet. I hope this works better in a handheld.

[long cape]

Bruh, so if I probably bought the Indie I'd get the ACE instead!? 😕

[deft ocean]

deal of the century lol

[gentle delta]

(if he decides to send anything to anyone)

[acoustic umbra]

I am sure he will.

Might now be timely

[static arch]

Correct, all ACE pre-orders are being upgraded to ACE.

[static arch]

Assuming the ACE comes to fruition...

Hoping it does 🙏🏾

[long cape]

@static arch It should.

[versed pond]

Couple new screenshots and a video from the ACE discord

Its a prototype, so the shell hasnt been painted

Personally I hope the final product doesnt have a gameforce logo on the bottom. Maybe on the back

[sterile totem]

Control via bluetooth. Asia is obsessed with kof. I wish they would test something else.

[abstract wind]

They tested dying in god of war

[grand arrow]

What do you want, Demon Souls?

[drifting canyon]

No I want SpongeBob Squarepants.

[surreal drum]

I abandoned my pre-order, by postponing the release of their consoles I had the impression of being in the shoes of a person who pre-ordered the Pyra console 😂

[sterile totem]

Not gonna dignify your stupid question with an answer.

[grand arrow]

Waaaaaow, hahaha 😂

https://tenor.com/view/0to100-real-quick-drake-gif-11172122

[versed pond]

Nerd fight Nerd fight Nerd fight

[light verge]

it just looks so...bland

[acoustic umbra]

ACE

[vital fossil]

ACE

[dark gorge]

it's a gaming device, not a fashion statement. stop zooming so hard kiddo

[stray coyote]

Asia and Mexico

[versed pond]

Realistically all I wanted was a RP3+ with the left stick on top, but this seems to be even better so no complaints

assuming it lives up to the hype

[light verge]

if it looks bad, it sells bad

I would never buy an ugly device no matter how good it is tbh

[clear flare]

For me I either want something that looks gorgeous or looks so ugly I think it’s funny

It’s the stuff in between that’s just garden variety ugly or very boring looking that sucks

I think I actually prefer the funny ugly to anything else

Like the wood grain 405v

[foggy crest]

Yeah, I just need functional hardware. Don't really care about the looks. Like the new PlayStation handheld looks good...kinda worthless. 🤔 that being said...I actually didn't keep a steam deck cause I thought it was ugly. 😞

[clear flare]

For me the steam deck is a perfect example of something I consider boring looking more than anything else

[zenith moat]

Functionality over form for me, very much so

Ace looks fine anyway

[clear flare]

Yeah I have aesthetic preferences but I definitely value functionality over them

I have a lot of devices I don’t actually enjoy the appearance of

Then there are some I absolutely love the appearance of but don’t think I’d actually use so I haven’t bought them yet (405v wood grain)

[zenith moat]

I find they grow on you over time anyway, as long as they work well and you enjoy using them

[light verge]

to be fair, to me there aren't many handhelds right now that I consider good looking

I completely disagree about the PS Portal looking good though, I think it looks terrible

but it is true that it's something that grows on you over time, I hated the deck when I first saw it and right now I actually like it. Still don't see it as a beautiful device by any means but I don't mind it nowadays

[dark gorge]

as a fan of lenovo, i'm well into the "ugly is only skin-deep" mantra. do like some people and blanket your device with stickers

[grand arrow]

I did that to my violin case to feel cool, like an electric guitar case. But really, nobody said anything either way.

[grand arrow]

Are you not entertained? Is this not what you came here for??!? Oh, you didn’t, you’re just here for the shared love of games and handhelds? Ah, yeah me too 😂

[long cape]

Still waiting for my GameForce ACE. ☹️

By the time I get it I'll be in my new Apartment.

[lost ether]

It will ship early 2024 at best according to GF.

[sterile totem]

It will be after lunar new year.

[long cape]

Dammit! 😣

[stray coyote]

That's in february, right?

[clear flare]

Feb 10 this year

[stray coyote]

Oof, that's a long wait. I only hope that at least they do ship it, even if it in another six months wait, lol.

[sterile totem]

The thing is Orangepi arent getting done and it has been around 6 months or maybe longer. It would be a miracle if gameforce comes to fruition.

I do want it.

[zenith moat]

I'm fine with the delays ... More time to play my other handhelds / laptop / desktop, then it'll be a nice surprise when it's turns up

[long cape]

Time to change my shipping address. 😥

[cloud kestrel]

Their last blog post says this:

1.Estimated start to ship date, Christmas Day or New Year (If Holidays disturb our work, will have one-two weeks delay). This is the goal and plan.

Has there been an additional update somewhere else to suggest lunar new year?

[lost ether]

No.

But, according to last updates, they should have received their testing PCB or should receive it this week. Then produce 20 units for testing. And if everything goes well, they are doing the mass production of PCB. Producing PCB for testing needed 25 days. I guess that mass production should take at least the same time, but I don't know. We have no precise info about the screen, and as far as I understood they are currently doing tests as well. Android 13 is not ready yet.

[past lintel]

Feeling pretty glad that I skipped this one. Someone else will probably ship a 3588 device by time this thing is realized. Reminds me of the KTR1 project.

[pastel niche]

Handhelds take time to build, software support, hardware support. This is one dude, cut him some slack

Most of these projects are just one guy in his basement, not Nintendo

[whole parrot]

I think maybe he meant in a way that he is the brains in planning and developing it, but there is of course a whole network of poeple he is working with to get the PCB online and produced.

lol he's in the wrong line of work if he can program and design all the production with no assistance throughout the entire process. Heck he needed help from EmuElec to get the OS working on the Chi

[ancient edge]

Whoa didn't know this device existed. Rk3588s? Dual boot Linux? Ps2 and GCN emulation? Less than £200? Now I want that 406M

[whole parrot]

Its just delayed a few weeks, because the process of programing Android 13 on the RK3588s turned out to be a lot more intensive then Gao thought it would be.

[clear flare]

Android 13 you mean

[whole parrot]

lol fixed it

I think when its all said and done it'll have real good Linux support, i hope

[ancient edge]

I'm still happy from knowing the existence of this chip

[clear flare]

Yeah I hope so too

[ancient edge]

Gcn on Linux would be so nice

[dark gorge]

always been possible on x86 linux

[lyric pecan]

I'd jump at a Linux device with this much power, assuming they can get touch support to work and we get an EmuDeck-like installer for it.

[dark gorge]

the rk3588 shows its colors in SOTC.
https://youtu.be/xmvP5wecrPk?t=1007

Weirdly enough, 3mb L3 rk3588 vs. 2mb L3 sd845 + 1mb NPU becomes a sort of night/day scenario. cpu bottleneck vs. gpu bottleneck. slowmotion gameplay vs. inconsistent-fps full motion gameplay.

https://youtu.be/e6QyBGWzmgY

the way the naked rk3588 chugs just from the cloth simulation when the character jumps in the first video... just depressing

[quaint wadi]

SOTC is tough though. Even the more powerful D1200 needs an slight underclock to run it well.

[dark gorge]

Its a good "how much raw power is it cooking" test though, like nfs:underground for gc is with the t618 and s922x/a311d. Like, the t618 can't handle rendering four cars worth of reflection maps on screen due to the weak gpu, whereas the s922x is best as that, but can't deal with four queues of real-time pathfinding like the a311d and t618 can once a race starts. you see two struggle in different ways, and the a311d accomplish everything, just not very well.

[quaint wadi]

Sure, I do agree. I just mean that it's a tough test to pass, and doesn't mean the chip could be bad for PS2 generally.

I know that's not what you said, but I just wanted to clarify 😄

That said, @true vault has been testing this chip on a board, and said it's decent for PS2/3DS (but below D1200), but not as good as he expected on GC/Wii (but above T618). I think he said that anyway 😄

Might end up being like the SD720 in the G Cloud. Better at GC/WII/3DS/PS2 than a T618, without really dominating any of the systems.

[acoustic umbra]

So these are still not shipping?

[quaint wadi]

Might ship end of Dec. Maybe.

[acoustic umbra]

Well I hope so. Did not preorder one. But would like to see a review on these.

[zenith moat]

Mmm so the A76 cores in the RK3588 are also used (tweaked version) in the Snapdragon 855. That kind of gives a performance baseline.

[zenith moat]

And maybe twice as powerful as the A73 cores in the Odroid Go Ultra / RGB10 Max 3 Pro.

[dark gorge]

I think this and the GCloud are on the same level, which is a decent place to be.

[zenith moat]

I did not know the 720G in the G Cloud had (admittedly only 2) A76 cores, assumed from the '720' label they would be very basic. Now I can see why people would want a G Cloud for more than just streaming. Conversely it means the Ace should be excellent for streaming too I suppose.

[dark gorge]

yeah. the 720g has a similar cpu layout with a DSP instead of an npu

[quaint wadi]

The problem with the G Cloud was the price more than anything else. The just get a Steam Deck crew have a point with that one.

[acoustic umbra]

I just worry about if this SOC will have the same linux problems that s922x/a311d had with sleep functions along with the other issues. I guess a android ROM fixes these issues.

[zenith moat]

I honestly don't mind not having sleep on my OGU, for my use case it's not a big deal. I don't even use the excellent sleep mode on my OGA. But yeah, I can see how it could be problematic for some (many?). I imagine it'd be a fairly typical issue for any Linux-first SBC SOC.

[clear flare]

I'd be completely fine with no sleep if I got an arkOS style quick mode shutdown/boot script on my max 3

[dark gorge]

LineageoOS has a sleep mode, but sometimes it just turns the device off Lol.

[dark gorge]

Macroing in the power off quick menu for mouse mode was a necessity

[quaint wadi]

I've literally never used sleep mode on anything, I just turn it off. Am I weird?

Actually, that's not true. I use it on my RP Flip, but that's just because it's so easy to close and the sleep happens.

[thorn marsh]

Eepy mode

[lyric pecan]

The MM+ has amazing power management and I wish all the other CFWs would do something similar... power enables sleep, and then it'll autoshutdown on its own after a few mins. I don't always know if I'm putting the device down temporarily, or for a couple of hours. Best of both worlds.

[quaint wadi]

From the gameforce discord

[dark gorge]

will the gameforce ace run box64droid well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqW1eiEMsXg&ab_channel=MicroLinux
Hollow Knight & Sundered footage

Timestamped at the beginning of Mount & Blade Warband footage
https://youtu.be/FBPRre39PtI?t=697

Will probably never play gta5, since even the sd888 can't pass 15fps on that one, but everything from 2008 backwards should work. Mount&Blade, GTA4, and Fallout 3 all came out in the same year. You might even be able to force-feed it some skyrim and new vegas with some ini-modding to lower system requirements

[clear flare]

New Vegas I doubt will even need it if fallout 3 runs

[dark gorge]

yeah, good point. used the same assets

[clear flare]

Oblivion could be fun on handheld if mods exist to let you use a gamepad properly. Hate that era for having all those games that had gamepad support on console but they didn’t bother supporting it on Pc

[dark gorge]

it actually does. there's a mod that adds gamepad functionality

https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/48577

[clear flare]

That’s sick, I’ll have to try that out on my steam deck

[dark gorge]

it should work pretty well. i did a bit of oblivion on my win600 before I got sucked back into skyrim.

it might even be powerful enough to play the pc gog version of DOA 5. the weird parallel is the rk3588 is about as strong as the Intel n5095.

[dark gorge]

this community needs an rk3588 guru with installs of armbian and android to test this stuff out.

[zenith moat]

All I want from Box86 / Wine is Need for Speed Porsche 2000. Then it will be complete ...

I'll try my luck with Winlator on the Android build it ships with first

[dark gorge]

if my Nuc 5i5ryk mini(daily driver) ever dies, I'll swap it out with an rk3588 box running android and win10,

[versed pond]

Updates from GF on the gameforce discord

He also goes into more detail about the other handhelds he's working on here

[clear flare]

well hopefully Ganimoth says so and we can get the candybar

[steel fjord]

oh awesome, i keep forgetting i ordered this, but could be a fun one.

[split stag]

your wish is my command

can I pull Taki and claim I made that handheld?

[whole parrot]

Massive battery!

CHI 2.0 confirmed!

FPGA is great since they have less latency and input lag when compared to the emulator android SBCs but like no retroachievements of course

[quaint wadi]

It's definitely a good thing the battery was increased, the original set up could have led to pimax levels of battery life.

It was the same sized battery as in my RPflip. A smaller, less powerful device.

[acoustic umbra]

anything new. we need something for our monkey brains

[whole parrot]

I guess once they get the first 20 units tested and Quality checked/assured, we'll see an update on when the production is completed for PCBs. Gao mentioned its not hard to produce the cases and everything else appears to be ready to go for full assembly. I doubt we'll get it by new years though...

[dark gorge]

as good as it seems, this device is getting beat to the market by better products at this point

[foggy crest]

Android devices....but not Linux ones. But...more people do want an Android device so yeah. 😮‍💨

This should still have a 1080p screen, nvme storage, 3x display support, Linux and open source upgrades over the competition for now.

[lost ether]

I see people complaining about android instead of linux. But what can do linux that android can't?

[clear flare]

Way more customizable

[foggy crest]

Hmm.... Android has Vulkan and Linux usually doesn't. But Linux lets you run pc ports, a desktop if desired, and anything you can do on a Linux computer. And usually freedom to update and upgrade. And I've gotten Android to run on most Linux handhelds released so you can get the best of both worlds.

[clear flare]

Emulation station is better than any Android frontend too

[lost ether]

Ok... I doubt the "anything you can do with a linux computer" actually is a thing (I mean... linux without a physical keyboard? 😭😭😭) so what I heard is that it is just a frontend preference.

[clear flare]

You can plug in a keyboard

People do all kinds of cool projects with Linux handhelds like running the m8c software to control a dirty wave m8 headless teensy

[foggy crest]

Yeah, you can build your own kernel on the device then use it. 😎 But this should be the same as a rk3588 SBC. Lots of software and projects out.

[lost ether]

Of course you can plug in a keyboard, compile stuff and so on. But why do you want to do this on a gaming handheld?

(and also, who actually do it among people wanting linux better than android?)

Again, you do what you want, I just had an honest question about the why. I have my answer, thanks.

[clear flare]

The dirtywave m8 example I gave is done, because it lets you replicate an $800 piece of music equipment with a 353vs and a teensy

Portmaster also has a lot of titles you can’t run on Android

And real pico-8 doesn’t run on Android either

You can run littleGPTracker on the v90

The ACE may even be able to run the rpi version of renoise

Surge XT 1.3 now has a headless version and also runs on arm Linux if you were inclined to code a front end control schema that makes sense with the inputs provided

Surge xt supports OSC so loads of example apps exist for that sort of interfacing

I imagine for many users Linux isn’t even about the extra stuff you can do so much as the extra stuff you can remove

There’s something nice about your retro handheld being 100% a gaming device instead of having touch gestures for settings and google chrome installed lol

[foggy crest]

I'm going to try triple booting mines with android, Jelos, and Ubuntu or Chrome. It can go in a sling bag and let's me game, code, and email. I was close to this with my rg552. Lots of freedom no locked bootloaders.

[clear flare]

A little mini keyboard and a stand could make this a nice cyberdeck for general computing and/or MS-DOS emulation

I like the idea of plugging in a little usb midi controller for controlling surge XT patches

Elektroplankton pro lol

[zenith moat]

Mmm a JELOS and Ubuntu dual boot (or better yet, vanilla Debian) would be excellent. JELOS on the EMMC storage for on the go, and Debian on the NVME storage with a USB-C dock for display and peripherals for home.

I guess you could somehow wrangle Android on the EMMC, JELOS on a SD card and desktop Linux on the NVME.

I am going to give Android a fair chance, mostly for Redream.

[split stag]

Ahem, isnt emmc storage on the m2 module? How are you planning to use it same time?

[dark gorge]

there's three routes. linux desktop or windows desktop via box64 or wine with the x86 translation layer for running pc ports.

[dark gorge]

there needs to be a proper GRUB implementation for that

several root accounts properly linked

it's simple on something like the win600 to use several partitions to set up windows, linux, and android, but most linux handhelds don't have a boot manager set up for that

[split stag]

Oh I rather meant that he seems to think there can be a separate emmc and nvme storage, which unless I am mistaken is incorrect

[dark gorge]

probably not for the portable version. maybe if you're diying a box unit into a steamdeck-at-home

[split stag]

Ooh right

[dark gorge]

basically with the Pi4-sized version, a mini-touchpanel, a dissassembled/reassembled joystick, and some patience with wire, hotglue, solder, and a 3d printer, you could make a decent handheld

i don't think most people here are CNCDan-tier, though

[steel fjord]

Honestly, the front end alone is enough for me. I may be alone in this, but I flat out hate dealing with Android

[foggy crest]

Yeah, the Ace has an emmc on board and a M2 slot for expandable storage.

[split stag]

oh, I thought its on module as well

[foggy crest]

Arrows hard to see, but ones the emmc and the other the M2 slot.

[split stag]

like those cheap windows laptops with emmc storage

nice

that opens some possibilities then

[tropic spade]

I know I could theoretically pre-order for $180, but, if/when it goes back to $220, will that still compete with the RP4 Pro? I like to wait for reviews, but I like the Linux potential of the RK3588.

[acoustic umbra]

I would wait for reviews and for Linux CFW to work in. Plus there is always people who will buy and sell in the next couple days.

[zenith moat]

Yes, built in EMMC and separate M.2 slot from what I understand. Just need a way to hook in GRUB somewhere yeah.

Edit: thanks for the board pic @foggy crest

[whole parrot]

Gao mentioned that this was a 10 layer PCB, so it took quiet a bit of time.

20 PCBs were sent to SMT company to put all the final parts on, so we'll see how that goes within a week or two

"Then we do the rest all pre-orders SMT, and assembling, and the whole pre-order can can be shipped out in two week and little more after the new year, which means Mid Jan 2024" - Gao

[stray coyote]

So that's at least 300 devices right?

[quaint wadi]

I think shipping has been a month away since September, hasn't it?

I'm sure it'll ship eventually. But I'd take deadlines with a pinch of salt.

[orchid pumice]

Why is that Xbox controller wearing a McNugget costume?

[acoustic umbra]

q2 of 2024?

[ancient edge]

q3.5

[acoustic umbra]

October?

[ancient edge]

I think 3.5 would be August, but I was just kidding, I have no idea unfortunately

[abstract wind]

Depends if you mean halfway through Q3 or 3.5 quarters through the year

[ancient edge]

😂😂😂😂

[lost ether]

Any real news about this device?

[zenith moat]

Nice, got a 512 GB M.2 2242 NVME drive for Christmas (Samsung PM9B1). That'll slot into the ACE nicely.

As for news... https://gameforce.fun/blogs/news/lastest-update-about-ace

[lost ether]

Thanks.

[whole parrot]

higher res photos

[drifting dawn]

How far away from delivery do you think we are?

[sacred terrace]

6-8 weeks?

[dark gorge]

If every day is a day of debugging hardware/software issues and battling driver development, it could still be weeks/months

Rockchip + mali + new hardware interface = kernel hell. Add on that rk3588 is still betaware, and we're looking at a waiting game

[spiral path]

Personally I'm just curious to see reviews for this thing to understand what kind of battery life and thermals an RK3588 handheld can have

Then again, I don't really need PS2/GC on a handheld, I just want PSP at 2x with rewind in a Smart Pro-like Linux device as my endgame

[dark gorge]

I imagine its going to be a smaller batch device like the Portal Retro and sell out in the first week. Its weird to see the first wave of those and ktr1's come and go while this is still cooking in the testing phase.

[timber dawn]

Looks like the RAM upgrade will be $35, https://gameforce.fun/products/only-for-early-ace-pre-orders-update-from-8gb-128gb-to-12gb-256gb-black-only

[split stag]

what emulator would benefit from the extra ram over 8GB? Yuzu?

[quaint wadi]

I doubt even that with this chip.

[zenith moat]

I'm thinking PC games, box86 / box64 with / without wine

But I doubt the CPU could handle anything that would need that much RAM

Native Android games?

I don't play any so don't know how demanding they can get

[jolly wharf]

surely if i ordered the 8gb 128gb but was within the free 256gb upgrade period that counts as an 8gb + 128gb preorder

[true vault]

Why is it black only

[clear flare]

Opening gmail

[split stag]

in Chrome

[clear flare]

Yeah, the android native email app obviously is fine with low ram

But if you want to run a Linux desktop environment 8gb would be fine but more would be better

[dark gorge]

On this platform, you can play simpler switch stuff in yuzu. Think Souldiers, No One Saves the World, Tetris Effect, Steamworld Franchise, etc.

If you're planning on Box64Droid play, think 2008 backwards. Two Worlds, Mass Effect 1, DIRT 1&2, Mount & Blade 1/Warband/Fire&Sword, etc.

all of these pc games require no more than 4gb of ram even with integrated graphics. (they all also play perfectly on the gpd win1)

[split stag]

I think im going to be fine with the "free" 256GB emmc upgrade and keep it at 8GB.

[zenith moat]

Ok good point. I'd be interested in playing stuff I run on my 32-bit WinXP desktop. Need for Speed Porsche, Star Wars KOTOR, Mass Effect, original COD, Bioshock, System Shock 2, Richard Burns Rally, GT Legends, Age of Mythology, Deux Ex, Half Life 2 etc. That machine only has 4 GB DDR3 installed by design, so 8 GB would be enough even with the emulation layers.

[solid merlin]

Just send it already! When is the shipping date?

[astral eagle]

I wonder if the 8gb will be dual channel and not the 12. I'd be happy to pay more for 16gb if so lol

Or would the 12 even be triple channel I wonder. That would be nice

[zenith moat]

No one knows, not even Gao I'd say. There have been several delays, with some compensation and improvements. I'm not optimistic about it getting to me in Australia by my birthday in mid-February.

Happy to wait though, got plenty of other stuff to play games on.

I'd rather it be well-tested before shipping.

I've got an NVME drive waiting for it when it comes.

[solid merlin]

Who's Gao ?

[quaint wadi]

The main dude behind the ACE.

[thorn marsh]

lets gooo

[quartz gorge]

https://gameforce.fun/blogs/news/lastest-update-about-ace

Update today. Parts to arrive on 22nd, hoping to ship end of month.

Thinking of getting this instead of rp4 for bigger screen if it can run GameCube ok…

[lost ether]

What is the battery again? Specs say 5500mah, but I remember it change to two ??? mah batteries instead for higher voltage.

[silk oyster]

I think it was changed to 2x 3700mah

[quaint wadi]

Which is a very good thing. 5500mah is a bit more than the RP4 pro, so it isn't awful. But it wasn't ideal either. It made more sense when you could only have one battery for this and the indie.

[silk oyster]

Sorry, 2x 3600mah in series.
Since energy is in watt hours.
2x 3600mah is 3.6ah x 7.4v = 26.6wh

5500mah would have been 5.5ah x 3.7v = 20.35wh

It's more efficient to drop down voltage than to boost

[zenith moat]

That is a nice capacity now for sure

[silk oyster]

It's about 43% more capacity than the retroid pocket 4 with the 5000mah battery.

Should help offset the larger screen power draw.

Does anyone have any idea how the power draw compares on rk3588s vs dimensity 1100?

The D1100 is A78 and smaller process vs rk3588s using A76 and older litho process.

The advantage of the rk3588s is in Linux support and drivers as opposed to the closed source Android only blobs for mediatek chips.

What I really want is a nice simple jelos flash and operate system like we have with 3566 systems, but with support for GameCube, Wii and PS2

Along with much better Saturn, N64 and Dreamcast

[quaint wadi]

There's some past that going on with the 4 pro. Maybe needing to run the fan a lot or something is draining the battery.

Cause the Pocket Air has a D1200 and great battery life. OLED screen, but it is a bigger OLED. Bigger battery, but it doesn't scale to how much more battery life you get out of it at all.

Shadow did a live stream today and it lost 75% of its battery in 2 hours. That's x86 battery life.

[lost ether]

I can only say that according to https://gadgetversus.com/processor/mediatek-mt6891z-dimensity-1100-vs-rockchip-rk3588s/

Performance / watt ratio
RP4P: 1 319 pts / W
ACE: 672 pts / W

I don't know if we can say anything about it, but my intuition is that you should not expect a miracle when asking for demanding games and battery life.

Of course, performance is not only about GFLOPS. But RK3588s is 8nm versus 6nm for d110, so needing more power for the same performancea is to be expected, right?

[quartz gorge]

The rp4pro lost 75% in 2 hours!?

I’ll just play my air 1S at that point

[silk oyster]

People have gotten PS2 and GameCube running on the raspberry pi 5 and this has both higher clock speed and a real GPU, so it should be capable of running them

[jolly wharf]

i've been running PS2 and Gamecube on an RK3588 since i got my QuartzPro64 dev board, it's definitely capable of both. im not optimistic about battery life however

still, it should be a very nice handheld to meet the "simple linux based handheld with ps2/gc capability" niche. hopefully it ships out anytime soon

(as in no major delays. optimistic i know)

[quartz gorge]

Can it run then at 3x/1080p?

[delicate prairie]

How do you calculate/derive 7.4V? Thought a battery itself is already 7.6V based on the picture from gao.

#1160668075872493719 message

[silk oyster]

Lithium ion battery chemistry, for a standard li battery you can assume a 3.7v nominal voltage, 2x in series is 7.4v.
There have been several posts from Gao on the battery ranging from 3000 - 3800 mah.
I'm not sure what the final part capacity is

[silk oyster]

I wouldn't worry too much about 3.6 vs 3.7 vs 3.8v
Lithium batteries like all batteries discharge on a voltage curve, full with no load they measure 4.2v, at discharge, depending on how completely drained it could be 3.2-3.4v so when they state 3.6-3.8 it's just where they are measuring on the discharge curve.
Same with nominal capacity, it may be a 3800mah cell and they may only discharge 3000 mah to preserve more battery cycles or it could be due to cell variation.

[quaint wadi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW6XB4xtWZU

It's @foggy niche channel

[foggy niche]

7:10 it reads 94%

then towards the end of the stream continuation (it's split because my internet went down) it was 25%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U_QirfaHjg&t=2323s

[next path]

The fan really kills RP4P battery.
What was Shadow playing?

[dark gorge]

welcome to high gigaflop performance and power draw

rk3588 will get that too, since its base draw is 12w not counting peripherals

[foggy niche]

ps2 games

[zenith moat]

Depends how accurate that percentage estimate is. I can play Dreamcast upscaled for literally 3 hours when my Odroid Go Ultra reads 0% battery.

[foggy niche]

yes, I also had this problem on the RGB30 as well

[dark gorge]

(tips hat) the last handheld hardkernel has left

[zenith moat]

They must be cooking something up. Surely ...

Whatever it is, I'll most likely buy one, big fan of their stuff

🤣

[dark gorge]

they ban/delete/block all forum posts about cloning their devices on sight now

i'm expecting an h3-based intel device for their next project

[solid merlin]

Can I hope for a February delivery?

[split stag]

Sure, 2025

[quaint wadi]

I hear dev units are getting sent out soonish. So hopefully they are actually closer now, and the delay will only be....4 months on what was promised at preorder?

Better than the T80 and orange pi I guess

I didn't preorder this. But I remain really interested in how powerful Linux thing works out.

[pastel niche]

Linux won’t be at full potential until vulkan userspace drivers are given to us by ARM

[jade hemlock]

Or the panvk team starts working on panvk again

[long cape]

@pastel niche @jade hemlock Plus Linux hasn't been Mainlined for RK3588 processors either. 😥

[pastel niche]

Yeah, these things take time. Glad to see it will get mainline though. And it’s not Pi, always a win

[sour matrix]

heh. I don't know that I count it as a win until mainline kernel and some sort of Vulkan driver.

[quartz gorge]

Hmm. gamble $40 price difference on this (preorder vs retail), or wait for rg556 pricing info to drop.

[quaint wadi]

Or just wait for reviews. It's not like the Ace is going to sell out for months.

[quartz gorge]

I just meant for the discount.

[split stag]

556 is probably going to have quite a better screen

[quartz gorge]

It's probably not going to have enough performance for what I want though.

[solid merlin]

How fast are people getting the retroid pocket 4 pro delivery? Should I buy one when I am waiting for the gameforce ace? Should I just wait? The gameforce is supposed to be ready soon. I pre- ordered. Is there any inventory issues with the retroid?

[foggy niche]

they have a spreadsheet for this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1D-AWR5CtZoGnsJ-v2vCZNwu9p32K7Nm-7bwf0PEppi4/htmlview

[lost ether]

If the RP4P is just meant for waiting, just wait.

[solid merlin]

Has anyone received the retroid pocket 4 pro are they shipping or is there inventory issues? Waiting for the gameforce ace. Need something my psp died after almost 20 years of use. 2 screen replacement and replaced joysticks and I tb memory card expansion upgrade. All I have is the M17 now. No retro games. My son has ps 5 so I get to play games. I really miss the psp. Emulation has improved in the last few years. I'm hopeful that more recent console will be Emulated.

[foggy niche]

yes

[solid merlin]

@foggy niche Did you get it or they having inventory issues? Did you pre-order ?

[foggy niche]

preordered first minute it started in dec

I think their production capacity isn’t that high and they have a lot of orders

[lost ether]

According to retroid discord, they had like 10k pre-orders to fulfill. A lot of people already received their handheld but most don't have it yet. Mine was picked up by 4px 3 days and a half ago, and now seems to wait who knows what in "Shatian, Dongguan, China".

[lost ether]

If you really can't wait, maybe find a used rp3+ instead of rp4p. Now that rp3+ price dropped, used one should be pretty cheap. They run psp at 2x/3x with no problem.

And hopefully, you won't have to wait in the dark for your order to ship.

[modern tundra]

I forgot I preordered this lol excited to see the release finally

[quartz gorge]

Went to order this… shipping for the 12gb model is 30 and it’s 15 for the 8gb lol. Wut.

Base model it is

[crisp crypt]

Are there any other rk3588s handhelds out there? Pre-ordered this in early November (White model). With the possiblity of CFW, a bigger screen, and -- I'm guessing faster storage with NVME -- this could be better fit for me than the pocket 4 pro. Will see if the controls and ergonomics are good.

[quaint wadi]

None that look likely to come out soon (orangepi/T80)

[quartz gorge]

Anyone in the GF discord? Looks like last update was test assembly to start today.

[sacred terrace]

Haha generally, we don't get an update on the day when something was supposed to happen. A few days or weeks later, we get an update saying there's been another delay

[stray coyote]

Why not get another PSP in the meantime? They're dirty cheap.

[thorn marsh]

We are so back

[quartz gorge]

Might come in time for my birthday

(Late Feb)

[crisp crypt]

The preorder page is down https://gameforce.fun/products/gameforce-ace-rk3588s-gaming-handheld. Not sure what that means.

And blog is up https://gameforce.fun/blogs/news/shipping-date-all-pre-orders-will-be-shipped-out-before-9th-of-feb-before-chinese-new-year

[quartz gorge]

Full price listing is present now https://gameforce.fun/products/gameforce-ace-rk3588s-12gb-256gb-black-only-pre-order-read-red-highlights

Only the 12gb

[crisp crypt]

Wow! So that's a price increase and a half.

[quartz gorge]

That’s what it always said it would be for the 12gb model

Maybe they’re not going to bother with the 8gb post launch? Or just haven’t updated the shop

Anyway yea feeling better about ordering the base at 180 a few days ago!

[dark gorge]

Well, its now in mini pc territory, so it makes sense.

sd855-tier with the ability to play pre-2010 windows titles And modern indies in mobox/box64droid. Might as well charge college laptop prices

[zenith moat]

Yeah, GF said the long term price has to be much higher than the pre-order to be sustainable due to high SOC costs. They will come down in due time I suppose.

Great that a case is included 😍

I was just going to start shopping for a Switch Lite case to fit it.

[crisp crypt]

It doesn't look to be a custom fit case though like the retriod ones

Totally a nice bonus still.

[solid merlin]

I want to get the upgrade of ram but I don't get paid until Wednesday the 31 hope they didn't put mine before then. I don't want any more delays I will settle for what ever they send

[foggy niche]

things could still go wrong

bad batch of screens, design issue, cases not finished properly

just being realistic

I’d prefer end Feb shipping if the parts just came in

[lost ether]

Nothing about the Indie? I canceled my order anyway back in december, but I wonder if there is any communication about the plan for this.

PS: Sorry, I can't find the Indie section since I only picked a few threads to be displayed in settings and I don't know how to get the others back 😬

[forest hatch]

I agree, hopefully it went through enough testing so things that you mentioned doesn't come up later on

The worst feeling is having to return these products after getting excited for so long and then waiting again

[forest hatch]

None yet, honestly it's sad seeing indie buyers kept on getting ghosted for months

One guy in GF discord would ask about Indie status every week and the answer would be will make decision next week, next week and now after CNY

[foggy niche]

if we’re at this stage then I’m slightly more optimistic

I thought he literally just got the parts and they were putting them together

[crisp crypt]

That was my thought as well. Assembly seems to be incredibly fast for these devices. All of the parts just came in.

[foggy niche]

it looks like 50 pieces in that photo

crazy

[long cape]

I need to change my address I'm moving!!!

[quartz gorge]

I didn’t even know it was still a thing. Pretty much everything related to it was removed from site.

[quaint wadi]

They got told they would probably get upgraded to an Ace. And then....

[dark gorge]

well, gameforce probably estimated cost of assembly and decided "huh, we're gonna go bankrupt if we don't slice off a whole SKU"

[quartz gorge]

Yeah they also seem to have deleted 8gb as an option once preorders closed. Just the one 12gb sku now for sale

[quaint wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/phawx-gpd-gpdwin-max2-gif-26215880

[charred tulip]

I still want my Indie 🥺

[foggy niche]

powkiddy got you covered with the rgb10max3?

[dark gorge]

"It only needs a 4000mah battery"
(laugh track)

[jolly wharf]

apparently some people have received tracking numbers 👀

[forest hatch]

Yeah just received mine

[split stag]

yep

[indigo steppe]

Mine too

[lost ether]

They said that they will prepare tracking numbers before actually shipping

[gray oriole]

Yes GF has said that they would be doing shipping information and labels before the devices are all assembled because it took "very careful work." Hopefully they actually ship in the middle of next week to avoid Chinese New Years and the delays that will cause.

[lost ether]

Editing shipping info and printing labels will take some time, so will do it earlier than actual shipping out date.