UHF | RFID for flipper

[vernal cape]

or all the same number, which could be, say, the tag manufacture info (date, location, prod line, etc).

most tags will let you re-write the EPC.

[half quest]

Yeah looks like it did let me rewrite it

took a few tries because it kept crashing but it worked eventually

[quaint pulsar]

Hangs on 'Write Sucess' but tag is not written. I will try later with different fw

[vernal cape]

but most pre-used tags (like, let's say clothing tags for stores, hint hint) will not let you do that without a password

either password protected or permanently locked in this case, I'd have to check the datasheet for this specific tag to know

[half quest]

Wonder if my work is like that

They have all the electric vehicle charging behind a gate

One that requires UHF RFID tags

[vernal cape]

probably perma-locked, changing the password to anything other than 00000000 prevents reading and says "check password"

so, toying about with this a bit

seems the first four words of the EPC are either not writable (first two words are the CRC) or not settable to 00 00 (PC)

[half quest]

Explain it to me like im 5?

[vernal cape]

see, this for example is a brand new strip of these: https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Murata-Electronics/LXMS21NCMH-230?qs=xZFQr2mActek7RIeJVjcFw%3D%3D

Monza M750 iC in a tiny ass 0805-style glue-on package with integrated antenna

[vernal cape]

I'm coming

[vernal cape]

E2 80 11 90 is the code for Impinj (xx x0 1x xx), Monza M750 chips(xx xx x1 90).

and you find that info in the EPC, which you can overwrite, and the TID, which you can't overwrite

[quaint pulsar]

Checked again and flipper app crashes on Write Sucess but writes EPC

[half quest]

mine does that too sometimes

[vernal cape]

EPC stands for Electronic Product Code. I'm not entirely sure of how it's structured because I have yet to read up on it, but here it seems fairly obvious that it's CRC (one word), PC (one word, Product classification perhaps? no clue), and then the actual product code which you can do whatever you want with

there is clearly some part of the EPC that is important here. changing the product code from 34 00 to 05 00 made it not show the EPC when doing a scan. still had the EPC when you specifically read it, but the list didn't show it.

the CRC changes because the entire EPC changes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check

[vernal cape]

I'm dumb. the CRC and PC are part of the EPC memory bank, but not the EPC. dum

[half quest]

I wouldnt call yourself dumb

[vernal cape]

^^

agreed, I'm just still learning

[half quest]

This is literally called learning

Oop

I type slow im standing up

[vernal cape]

xD

https://tenor.com/1Qle.gif

[half quest]

I just wanna know if this will work with a tag from work

My hopes are high and ready to be shot down

[vernal cape]

xD

make sure you have permission from work/security/building owner.

[distant flare]

Missed me 😦

[vernal cape]

I did! added you to the list!

[distant flare]

Thanks 🙏

[vernal cape]

no worries! again, this is just a list to gauge interest, product will be on my tindie when it goes live 🙂

[half quest]

Of course haha

[vernal cape]

aHA! PC is not Product Classification, it's Protocol Control!

[distant flare]

If you are willing and can remember please ping me when they are live, I don’t check in here enough, I’ll buy one the minute I see it lol

Any estimate on price?

[vernal cape]

no clue what that entails for now though

for now they're set at 65$ for the V1 boards. V2 will be a bit more expensive.

without shipping obviously

[distant flare]

Nice sounds good

[vernal cape]

but international shipping shouldnt be a problem, less than 15$ probably

[vernal cape]

I will ping the devs/reasearchers first (nfc gang and all those folks), try and go by a chronological order of interest

[distant flare]

Of course, thanks

[vernal cape]

and if there's any leftover from V1 after they've got the chance at it I'll ping everyone

[vernal cape]

that explains the no EPC when PC = 05 00

Impinj Datasheets really are the GOAT

motherfuckers just straight up walk you through every single detail. I love them

[vernal cape]

and furthermore, Impinj straight up tells you how they do it 🙏
https://support.impinj.com/hc/en-us/articles/203444983-TID-Memory-Maps-for-Monza-Self-Serialization

[harsh igloo]

not dumb, I remember learning that at defcon only a couple years ago

[vernal cape]

you know, coming from someone like you this actually made my ego just explode

[vernal cape]

oh man, this is getting really fun actually, just toying with the EPC and PC rn

same tag, different PC (34 00 and 2C 00, changes the EPC length from 6 to 5 words) my last word just disapears, but is still detected when reading "out of bounds" of the EPC length declared by the PC

[vernal cape]

aaah, ok, the EPC length declared in the PC with the L bits don't actually lock you out of the rest of the EPC, it just controlled what's sent back with a normal ACK command

[vernal cape]

toying aroundwith those tiny murata chips with monza iCs inside, I tried just adding a length of wire to the outside.

literally just a length of wire as long as the ideal dipole for 910MHz.

Got the read range up from sub 10mm to >100mm

[half quest]

@vernal cape So I was able to get to reading one of those stickers at work and got this from the read 🤔

[vernal cape]

what's the TID say?

[vernal cape]

yeah no that ain't right

[half quest]

Yeah wonder what’s wrong with it

[vernal cape]

E2 is just GS1 specs, 8 tells us the tag supposrts XTID, and 0 tells us it's probably in the first few makers on the MDID list

[half quest]

I wonder if that tag is just no good

Maybe need to try another

Or these tags are just locked up behind some sort of security?

[vernal cape]

also entirely possible

is there anything written on the tag?

[half quest]

Hmm, I’m gonna see if there’s another they’ll let me try

[vernal cape]

can you see through it if you shine a light on the other side maybe?

[half quest]

I mean there should be but I have no idea

[vernal cape]

take pictures

[half quest]

Next time I go down there I will. It’s all the way in the garage

[vernal cape]

just tried it with a known tag and EPC and TID show up fine

[vernal cape]

no worries

[vernal cape]

it very well might be password protected. that's why @lime hull (sorry for the ping) had the idea of integrating the SAM reader on the board I made, so tha you can plug in a SAM with keys for UHF tags

or something along those lines, I'm stil a bit fuzzy on how that all works ^^;

[vernal cape]

oh, also this might be because the L bits of PC are set to 00000, indicating a 0 length EPC! I just saw this! learning works 🎉 🥂 .
they might do this because they don't actually need the EPC to be unique, the TID is right there and absolutely 1000% worldwide forever unique.

[half quest]

So it would work maybe ?

Explain it like im 5 again haha

[vernal cape]

basically the app saying [EPC bank length : 0] could be because it's doing weird password protected reading sneaky shit, OR simply because the Protocol control, which has at the start of it 5 bits called "L bits", Length bits, are all set to zero.

(a word is two bytes, or 16 bits)

[vernal cape]

(which is why if you look at this the digits are grouped by two. each digit represents a bytewritten in hex(0 to 9, then A B C D E F).)

so if the L bits are 00000, when the tag is asked for the length of the EPC prior to actually being asked the EPC, it'll say "0 words", and the reader won't even bother trying to read it.

any questions?

[half quest]

uh huh

I think it makes sense

[vernal cape]

as for the TID not actually showing up.... my money's on password protection, but we'll see.

actually, simple question, the tag. was it a sticker?

[half quest]

it was a sticker

inside a cars winshield

[vernal cape]

ok, that helps a tiny bit.

a very tiny bit.

the equivalent of asking "are they human" in guess who

[half quest]

lmfao

[vernal cape]

there are some special snowflake tags that are waaaaaay smarter than just the sticker kind you see everywhere.
Sensor inputs, LED outputs, data communication over I2C or similar busses for microcontroler data exchange, wake-on-read output pins to get uCs out of deep sleep, Battery powered modes for extremely long range communication, you name it they probably made it.

but usually those tags are not in sticker format, they come in thicker plastic molding, or even PCB mounted inside an enclosure which can actually get fairly big.

so simple sticker? not those.

[half quest]

simple sticker for sure

my company is too cheap to do any of the fancy stuff

any corner to cut costs

[eager moss]

you need to wake up the yrm module by replugging 3v pin while in the app

[half quest]

I think I just had everything plugged in the wrong way 😅

[vernal cape]

3V pin does nothing

[eager moss]

oh lol, I'm going to work on fixing the bugs, I put the ui changes on hold

[half quest]

I got it working thanks to Digits help

[eager moss]

it doesn't? mine module something i have to replug the EN pin

enable pin, i'm using 3v to enable it instead of the digital pins

[vernal cape]

the EN pin is not actually routed on the YRM1001 module, but it is present on the daughterboard on top. it seems to be routed on bigger boards (at least M5Stack UFH/YRM1003)
edited for correction.

wait

maybe is is

it sure isn't on the YRM1001.

but on the bigger ones, maybe

taking apart a yrm1003 (the next size up)

[eager moss]

alright, lmk

[vernal cape]

huh, it actually is routed after all on YRM1003

goes to pin4 of a chip bearing ESS 00G

okay, got it

package fits, naming scheme fits

and pinout works for EN on pin4 !

so now I guess the question is... WHY THE FUCK IS IT NOT WIRED ON YRM1001?!?!?!?

i guess now you actually do have to add the code to enable the output on pin7 when you want the module to run ^^

[eager moss]

uhumm, mostly I recommend to just plug the module to 3v pin because everytime it wakes up the select is reset

[vernal cape]

you mean each time it wakes up the 5V is reset?

[eager moss]

Thats my assumption; yes

let me know if you have a different findings

[vernal cape]

I'll try tomorrow, my YRM1003 doesn't have a connector anymore ^^; might have melted it a bit while removing ti to see wtf was going on underneath it...

got a bunch of spare ones at work though, so that'll do it

[half quest]

@vernal cape A little more info for you continuing from yesterdays. So here’s a pic of what those stickers look like (this one just happens to be in a case they put it in so it doesn’t get wet)

[half quest]

I scanned this one and it gave me a bit more info after scanning. Still nothing in the EPC Bank but take a look at the TID Bank.

User Bank is filled with 46 bytes of just 00’s

[vernal cape]

That's an Alien Higgs 3 tag

Try and take a picture while shining a light through the tag if you can

[vernal cape]

just tried it, and I get the result you'd normally expect, module wakes up and reads

[vernal cape]

I'm coming back to this to say that yep. USB no worky. I guess they disable the USB on UART chips and vice-versa.

brand new chip, cables are the right way around, and it doesn't even show up as unknown in device manager.
welp, I got some USB breakout and LEDs to remove from my V2 board then :/

[half quest]

I’ll see what I can do

I’m also confused as to why even the tag that I have read and copied over to one of the stickers I received with the yrm (this one has all the EPC data) isn’t working when brought to the gate that it’s supposed to work with

[vernal cape]

be confused no more!

the thing your gate is probably reading is the TID, which is read-only.

since the system is trying to differentiate between cars, the TID which is unique worldwide is a very nice solution. don't need to bother programming the EPC upon recieving new tags, no need to set lock bits and stuff, just read and enter in system, then modify in the software which car it belongs to and presto, you're done.

now, like all things, there are some 'TID is read only' exception. kinda like there are Magic tags for NFC, there are rewritable-TID tags, but they're very expensive and you won't find them in the wild

TID rewritable tag

[half quest]

So are you saying it’s possible for me to do this?

If I get the right tag?

Does the EPC even matter then either or just the TID? @vernal cape

[vernal cape]

it might be possible, yes.

[half quest]

I take it the tag you linked “should” do the trick?

[vernal cape]

if it works as intended and they're not doing some password-protected-read stuff for the EPC on your car's tag, then yeah

I got one on the way, I'll post what I find here anyways 🙂

[half quest]

Oh nice. Might order one too. How many did you order?

You only really need 1, right?

[vernal cape]

yep, got 1 because they're expenseive 🥲

[half quest]

I’ll get two in case I F something up like I’m known to do

[vernal cape]

^^

[half quest]

Scratch that I just ordered one cause I buy too many things and need to save money 😆 @vernal cape

[vernal cape]

xD

[vernal cape]

speak of the rewritable TID devil

[half quest]

whats that other one you ordered

[vernal cape]

first one's a temp sensor tag, and the third I think was just some tags from an asian manufacturer for which I had no info

[half quest]

Wonder if those would work for what im trying to do also

Were you just testing those out for shits and giggles?

[vernal cape]

they're not TID rewritable though

[vernal cape]

yep, pure curiosity

[half quest]

Ahhh

[vernal cape]

also, temp sensor!

you can measure through windows for example!

[half quest]

my paypal wouldnt go through on like the first few times i tried to order now I have like tons of notifications telling me to finish my payment 🙄

[vernal cape]

nice

[half quest]

Eh I just paid with CC

[half quest]

Interesting!

[vernal cape]

yup!

IIRC, they store the measured data in the EPC or something like that

maybe user memory actually

[half quest]

Ok maybe stupid question but what is EPC exaclty?

[vernal cape]

EPC stands for Electronic Product Code.
it's the main part of the memory bank of the same name, and usually stores a non-unique number that defines a specific product, like say [Red, Tshirt, coton, size M]

[half quest]

ahhh ok

Im pretty sure you explained that before to me but im just a moron and dont read things

[vernal cape]

no worries, we're all learning!

[vernal cape]

Alright, I started tinkering lightly with the temp sensor tag (Magnus-S M3D), no luck for now for reading temps from it.

[half quest]

what about the rfid tag?

[lime hull]

Electronic barcode, basically.

Different tags will have different unique IDs, but all the products of the same type could have the same EPC. They don't, but come close with something like (with Walmart) the UPC plus a unique serial number.

The main thing is that it lets them know "this product is this specific red shirt", even though you might get a completely random tag from a pile for one shirt and the next one in the pile goes to a different product type entirely.

[vernal cape]

haven't tried it yet

I have one last V1 board to assemble, had forgotten I kept one at home to potentially keep for testing

but didn't end up needing it, so we're up to 13 for sale!

[half quest]

Thank you!

[harsh igloo]

if you get an EPC memory bank from a product you bought, try dropping it into the bottom of https://www.gs1.org/services/epc-encoderdecoder

[vernal cape]

ooooh, nice1

pretty much all my tags are from products!

speqking of tags, adding some entries in the MDID list right now

[harsh igloo]

its fun to get it get broken down and to see the UPC come out (in some cases)

[meager echo]

I like to scan my bike tag mainly 🙂

but those temprature stickers seem neat

[vernal cape]

Very! There exists humidity ones too, and temp + humidity

Mostly for process and cold chain control

[vernal cape]

alright, picking this back up

so, I can definetly write the TID, which is good news!

that said, the TID memory block is 8 words long, I'm not sure how systems that would expect a longer/shorter TID would work out?

shorter, potentially no problems, the system might just dismiss the extra information

ALSO, that re-writable TID tab is very much bare. that means it's just a plastic foil with aluminium on top and the chip glued up. one nick or wrong move and you fuck it up. I'd suggect leaving it in a box/thick packaging to make sure it stays intact until you cut the floil down to size for installation.

[half quest]

Maybe just put it in clear casing like that one photo I showed you

Wonder if there’s another tag we could get that’s not as bare and allows for more info? @vernal cape

Just found this??? https://shop.mtoolstec.com/product/tid-changeable-uhf-900mhz-tag @vernal cape

[vernal cape]

It might work as well, yeah.
Site seems a bit sketch, mixing TID, UID and the comments look fake as hell xD

I'd just buy what we know works and put an extra layer of packing tape around the tag to encapsulate it

[half quest]

I’d probably buy something from Amazon or a more trusted place

[vernal cape]

My warning was meant more as a 'handle with care' disclaimer

[half quest]

@vernal cape if the thing works I’m treating it like a child

[vernal cape]

Honestly I've never had bad stuff from AliExpress, but I also don't buy everything from there, just stuff I can't easily get for cheap elsewhere

[half quest]

I’ve never bought anything until I got these items

*from Ali

[vernal cape]

It's a pretty good site imo. Just don't go for sellers that look sketch, and know that usually, if you see a listing twice from two shops at two prices, they're probably the same storage space with two storefronts.
Tldr, don't bother paying more thinking you're getting more.

Same with Chinese eBay sellers tbh

[half quest]

Makes sense

@vernal cape this too good to be true? https://a.co/d/dKN3Aw2

Nvm TID read only damn

[vernal cape]

Yep

[half quest]

@vernal cape https://a.co/d/adXIO2P can’t seem to find anything that says you can or can’t with these

The only reason I’m interested is it says delivery today by 5 pm

[vernal cape]

Can't

[half quest]

What gives it away?

[vernal cape]

It says Alien H3 , so it's not rewritable

[half quest]

Balls

[vernal cape]

If it's rewritable you could put any TID on it, and so, make it pass as a whole bunch of different tags

[half quest]

Yeah I’m just getting my hopes up lol

I’m impatient for AliExpress tag clearly

[vernal cape]

^^

[half quest]

@vernal cape https://a.co/d/9XKiIl4

What about this? Hahaha

Oh wait it says it’s an alien Higgs 3. I can’t win

[vernal cape]

yep.

just like magic tags, those things are very special use case, I really doubt you'll find it oustide aliexpress sellers and specialized stores like maybe lab401 (but with a huge markup on that last one)

also the fact that it is super bare and not neately cut makes me think that this might be a tiny batch hot off a production line that was maybe used between runs or something

[half quest]

I’m on a mission to find something apparently

[vernal cape]

seems like it ^^

[half quest]

Shopping around is fun haha

[eager moss]

i see, I'm going to try that with my module and see if i get the same results

btw, I'm very close to refractoring for the new uart framework change, once i finish that then i can start on implementing the tag dictionary + other UI changes

[vernal cape]

yay!

(maybe if we could get a realease for a more recent firmware in the middle 🥺 )

pweeeeaaaaase

[eager moss]

thats what im planning to do

[vernal cape]

you da best

[eager moss]

I wish I had time like the last summer when i first built this app haha, the amount of free time i had to just wake up and just grind this lol. Now its just work then school then senior projects haha

[vernal cape]

I hear ya

I oversee projects and I see the students work their ass off, sometimes staying well past school closing to work

[eager moss]

yup, i have a team of 9 to manage. i took the "team leader" position. so gotta keep everyone on their asses so we can graduate in peace

being able to read into a built in buffer might come in handy i'll see what i come up with

[vernal cape]

oooh, yes, buffer!

[true shadow]

its a chinese site, i ordered a few things from there, everything arrived within a few weeks. It's just one dude running it

[vernal cape]

huh, damn, welp at least we know it's not fake! thanks @true shadow !

[true shadow]

i think i am gonna order it hahah, i have one from aliexpress thats rewritable it works great, this one looks way different though

[true shadow]

would this allow you to read a bunch of tags at once? Cause that would be an amazing feature.

[eager moss]

thats in the feature list of the readme

[true shadow]

yeah i saw that, didnt know how far away you were from it

[half quest]

Which one from Ali do you have?

[true shadow]

there is only one place that sells it there, its like pisco something

[half quest]

Oh ok so the same one I just ordered

Is it super flimsy that one? @true shadow

[true shadow]

yep

[half quest]

Might need to cover it with something then

Hmm

[true shadow]

what reader/writer are you gonna use to write to it

[half quest]

Probably just the flipper @true shadow

If that’s even possible. I’ve got no idea I’m still new to this uhf rfid stuff

I’m pretty sure it is possible since I’ve done it with these other tags before but they weren’t TID modifiable

[true shadow]

the current flipper app doesn't allow tid writing

[half quest]

Can you recommend one?

[true shadow]

you can use the demo app that the reader comes with but it's a pain in the dick to use

i use this one actually https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804252208373.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.50.65411802654sYZ&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

it has an easy to use demo app that it comes with, and it has keyboard mode

you can just connect it to your iphone / ipad and it acts as a keyboard so you can scan cards into a notepad app and then later write stuff into your tags

[true shadow]

and it also is pretty cheap

[half quest]

Interesting

Might just get one to fuck around with

[true shadow]

its good for testing, i have a few other ones, like i have a reader that Pisco sells , it's about the same range but a bit more glitchy and no keyboard mode. There are some more expensive ones you can get from amazon they are about $100+ they have a bit longer range but come with similar demo apps.

[half quest]

As long as this one can read and write to the tag and the tag work afterwards I’m ok with it lol

[true shadow]

yeah that one can read and write TIDs

[half quest]

Nice

[true shadow]

the app is really easy to understand you just pick the databank you want to write, the length of the crap you are writing and press write

when it reads it can auto convert it to different formats for you from hex

[half quest]

There any videos for it?

[true shadow]

Nope but I can help you if you get it, or you can just ask the seller in the chat

[half quest]

Sounds good, I ordered one just for shits and giggles since apparently im into this stuff haha

Appreciate it!

[eager moss]

not close, but there haha. There’s gonna be a limit to it considering the app heap and stack size. might use disk to temporary read

[true shadow]

oh yeah, after X read it can store it

[vernal cape]

that's the one I got, I saw your post about it somewhere and kept it in mind all this time

[lime hull]

Higgs 3 is one of the two UHF tag types used by HID. The other is Monza 4QT.

"User memory can also be read and or write locked on 64-bit boundaries, supporting a variety of public/private usage models."

HID's UHF stuff is part of the SE platform, so they don't want just an unprotected SIO sitting around.

They have certain privacy guarantees they try to meet, and part of that is shielding the SIO from reading without authentication.

[vernal cape]

I am just getting nothing trying to scan this stupid temperature tag. temp is nowhere to be found. I'm starting to think this demo software is hiding some info from me

[vernal cape]

datasheet says to read in sectors that do not seem to exist.... wtf?!

[true shadow]

you have to read from the right bank as well

and sometime it can be encoded

that demo app is the worst too

[vernal cape]

yeah

I tried reading from the right bank, that's where the problem is tbh. RFU bank seems to have just a hole in it on their datasheets

also apparently you need to put out the right select command, then keep powering for 3ms, then the read command. I am fairly sure the demo app does not allow that kind of behaviour

just, following all the instructions to actually read the temperature always ends with me cursing at the damn thing because the software spews a memory overrun when trying to read the right memory bank with the right settings.

[vernal cape]

no Axum, don't tell me it's dead just yet, leave me some hope!

[next kelp]

oh the device is probably not dead, now your sanity on the other hand might be an entirely different story 🤣

[vernal cape]

xD

very true o.o

also if I ever end up just putting the temp sensor on hold, I still have LED tags to lower my sanity even more!

it's like Amnesia, looking at the special tags drains your sanity

[distant flare]

Aliexpress says low stock on that small YRM module so I picked one up in anticipation. Already picked up the SAM so just waiting to give you 💵 whenever my turn is up 🙂

[vernal cape]

@eager moss in case it's not already implemented, you should get the app to dump the RFU memory block as well, I see it's not present in the files I saved

[vernal cape]

Good thinking! You get a USB to UART adapter with it regardless, so you can use it with your PC to learn a bit in the meantime 😊

[vernal cape]

SAM arrived! I can finally do final testing!

But I'm on vacation on my way toa nice mountain range called the Alps to do some snowboarding 🙃

[meager echo]

Enjoy!

[vernal cape]

I will!

[eager moss]

i’ll see

[sly flint]

#1136167977708957737 message

[lime hull]

Hopefully the cards arrived, too 🙂

[vernal cape]

Probably, if they were in the same package! It got delivered the day we left for snow time, but after we left 😖

[lime hull]

Ahh.

Should be iClass+UHF and Prox+Seos, along with an R8.9.2.1 SAM and a R7 SAM.

[vernal cape]

Sweet! I'd say I can't wait to get home, but imma enjoy all this snow first ^^

Thanks a lot @lime hull ,

[lime hull]

I need to sniff the protocol

[vernal cape]

O.O

[limber pelican]

Which one?

[lime hull]

The u90 sam

[half quest]

Trying to see what this read says but the "back" button seems to be in the way of the two bytes there. Anyone know how I can see what those two are reading?

[mint egret]

I hesitate to ask, but does the down arrow on the Flipper help?

like to get it to scroll

[half quest]

Haha I get why you'd be hesitant but unfortunately it does not help

@eager moss Sorry to bother but is there anyway to do what I mentioned above?

[vernal cape]

Probably is a way to make it work, Frux just need time to implement it

[vernal cape]

Why do you need the entire TID for?

[half quest]

Trying to write it onto that new tag I just received

Don't think the flipper is writing it over. Not sure if its supposed to do that or not

Wanted to see if I could write it using that program we used before out of curiosity

[vernal cape]

Ah, I see

[half quest]

You got anything for me? hahah

[lime hull]

Looks like removing the spaces might help

On the code side

[half quest]

Wonder if I can edit it on flipper itself 🤔

I haven’t messed with it too much

[meager echo]

Got the radio module in the mail \o/

[vernal cape]

Still in the car omw back from snowlidays, I'll see if I get the same results as you when I get home

[vernal cape]

Yay!

[half quest]

Appreciate you !

[vernal cape]

Board update!

• I'm back home and now in possession of some lovely SAMs and fancy HID cards courtesy of @lime hull

• I have tested all the boards with a SAM card and they all read HID cards fine.

• They all got a final cleaning to remove my dirty fingerprints and almost all flux residue

• They are now sleeping in their little antistatic bags inside bubble pouches, awaiting the boxes I have yet to order 🙂

[vernal cape]

alright, just tried to write on the TID changeable tag with the flipper, it does indeed not work...

[half quest]

Wonder if you can use that demo program to do it?

[vernal cape]

Definitely can, already did it a week back 🙂

[half quest]

Oooh ok nice nice, now I gotta figure out how haha

[vernal cape]

Should be pretty easy. Scan the tag you want to copy the TID from, then save that somewhere, then scan the TID rewritable tag, and paste the 'new' TID in the field and click write

[half quest]

Just in case, can you send me a quick screenshot of how you did it so I don't screw it up? lol

Cause i'm getting a "No Tag Response" error

[vernal cape]

you get that when trying to read TID?

try this

skip step 2 when you go back to select the TID memory bank

also that doc need a new version, I've learned a bit since then

[meager echo]

Is this a feature that is expected to come to the flipper?

[vernal cape]

to the UHF RFID app, yes.

like how NFC has a magic tag fap

[vernal cape]

I'm sure Frux has it on their list somewhere, it's not gonna be high priority though I'm sure. it's very niche and there's a lot of work to be done on just the bare app

you could definetly start a branch to integrate that function though!

[half quest]

I’ll have to try this way. I’ve got so many questions but I’ll tackle one thing at a time I suppose

[vernal cape]

Don't hesitate to ask if you have questions, I might not have the answer but that'll make me learn as well!

[half quest]

Thank you much! I’m gonna sleep more then try later lol

[vernal cape]

sleep well!

[half quest]

@vernal cape do I only need to copy over the TID to the rewritable tag? Or does the other stuff like EPC and User bank need to go on it as well?

I haven’t even tried what you sent yet just asking

[vernal cape]

I say copy it all!

idk if it matters, because that all depends on how the system is set-up

[half quest]

Fair enough. Yeah I’ll have to test with something I have around the house first since I’m not at work to try that one

[half quest]

@vernal cape So is it a bad thing if the tag im scanning pops up like this when following the first few steps of those instructions you sent?

[vernal cape]

nope

it's fine, it just means the PC is set up to return no EPC

[half quest]

Ok so next question

Now that im back on this page how do I know which 0x00 byte to change to 0x01? @vernal cape

[vernal cape]

go back to the previous page, select the tag, and click "Set Select"

[vernal cape]

then come back to this

the message should be different

[half quest]

I did that and thats what it comes up with

[vernal cape]

that's wierd....

[half quest]

When I select the tag on the other page like in the screenshot the mask field does not fill in with anything

[vernal cape]

lemme get my flipper

[half quest]

Maybe I have to try this with a tag thats actually written... I thought this one I'm using was but I guess not

I'm trying it on the TID rewritable one at the moment only cause my tag I want to try it on is in my car and dont feel like bringing my laptop over to it lol

So that's probably why I'm not getting much

[vernal cape]

yes and no

hmmmmm

welp, good news is, if I set my PC words the same as you, I get the same results!

\

try and skip the entire steps where it says to modify stuff in the [send] line

just click [Set Select], then go down to MemBank and select [TID] and press read

that should give you something starting with E2 xx xx .....

did that do it?

[half quest]

did this

[vernal cape]

yay! there's your TID!

[half quest]

what if the tag still doesnt work though on what its supposed to be used on

cause im pretty sure I wrote that TID to it last night

[vernal cape]

try it!

if that doesnt's do it, try and copy the EPC and user memory to it too

[half quest]

yeah I did both those things last night as well

hmm

[vernal cape]

with just the flipper?

[half quest]

With this program

Maybe I wrote it wrong?

[vernal cape]

oh, then yeah, you should be all good!

did the tag you scan look different in the program?

[half quest]

Is everything I selected look good here?

[vernal cape]

looks good to me

wait

the word counter for the EPC length depends on what your original tag supports

the OG EPC might be longer than 8 words, and you truncated it by only looking at 8 instead of maybe 12

gimme just a sec

[half quest]

Also give me just a moment gotta finish something here at work

If I don’t respond

[vernal cape]

no worries

I'll keep blabering as I figure out what you should do

alright, your OG tag is an Alien Higgs3. it has:
• 96-EPC Bits, extensible to 480 Bits
• 512 User Bits
• 64 Bit Unique TID

SO.

you have to make sure that you copied AAAAAALLL of the data from the OG tag to the RW tag

to do that, you have to play with the fields named [Word Pointer] and [Word Counter]

ok, got a higgs 3 myself on hand

32 bits = 4 bytes = 1 word

1 word = [xx xx]

say [E2 00] for example

[half quest]

Interesting

This is gonna be a pain lol

[vernal cape]

naaaah

well, kinda

[half quest]

So the tag I'm looking to duplicate is named this "AWID UHF WS-UHF-0-0"

[vernal cape]

because you can only display so many words at once with this stupid program

[half quest]

looks just like this

Maybe we can find something online regarding this tag and I can figure out how many bits/bytes I need

[vernal cape]

hmmmmm

👀

well well well

[half quest]

What'd you discover lol

[vernal cape]

just found the manufacturer spec sheet 🙂

[half quest]

I was looking at this earlier myself, it doesnt look like its showing too much info?

[vernal cape]

nope :/

that said, this part kinda tells us it's gonna be a "standard" code used throughout the facility

[half quest]

I found this site, maybe something is here. Gonna dig around it maybe you want to also so here's the link: https://www.awid.com/support/downloads

[vernal cape]

So, if I was to guess, your complete epc and user data might look something like:
12 67 D3 89 7A 56 89 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

basically, actual data with a shitton of trailing zeros.

or the oposite, a shitton of leading zeros and then your data at the very end.

so, you could try to read the OG tag, copying ALL of the data from it in, say , notepad, and then looking at how it's structured

[half quest]

I have all that info actually from last night when i read it

[vernal cape]

ah, good!

[half quest]

I took pictures of it

[vernal cape]

very good

[half quest]

Hopefully its the full length

[vernal cape]

I have my reservations, but we'll see

[vernal cape]

because of this

[half quest]

So TID:
E2 00 34 12 01 2D 01 00 08 A5 DF 75 15 1D 01 58

EPC:
39 0D 00 58 62 D5 4D CA 9B 09 C9 C9 C9 C9 C9 09

User:

00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

[vernal cape]

yeah, I doubt that's complete

even just the TID is incomplete

[half quest]

hmm

wonder how long it actually is then

So what do i need to do? Just mess with the word count?

[vernal cape]

basically

yep

[half quest]

when i do it for this tag currently its saying read failed memory overrun

wonder if its because all it has is 08?

[vernal cape]

possibly, yes

[half quest]

so i need the OG tag

and try it with that

[vernal cape]

yep

[half quest]

ahhhhhhh

how fun is this!

[vernal cape]

there is another problem possibly, but we'll get to that if it turns up

[half quest]

oh god haha

ok give me a minute gotta go fix something and try to get ahold of the OG tag

[vernal cape]

tyt

alright, here's what I get from my H3, MemBank (word counter)

TID (0C)
E2 00 34 12 01 32 02 00 00 31 74 3D 12 0F 01 5D 70 0D 5F FB FF FF DC 50 
EPC (08)
A3 FD 30 00 E2 00 00 19 62 12 02 58 20 20 E7 0D 
user (1F)
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 
reserved/RFU (04)
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

[half quest]

@vernal cape so change this to look like this?

[vernal cape]

yep

[half quest]

should i go larger you think?

[vernal cape]

yep, I could go up to 1F

if it says memory overrun, you've gone to big

[half quest]

i dont need to get the exact number correct do i?

hm

[vernal cape]

not on the first try, no

[half quest]

I think the max is 9

because i try to do 10 and it says overrun

@vernal cape

[vernal cape]

hehe

it's hex bud 😛

[half quest]

oh

[vernal cape]

0 1 2 3 ... 9 A B C D E F

[half quest]

i hate everything

[vernal cape]

xDDDD

I feel ya

[half quest]

what is 10?

0xA?

[vernal cape]

yep

[half quest]

that just crashes it it seems like lol

[vernal cape]

happened to me too

close program, unplug and replug flipper, and it should work again

[half quest]

ill give it a go

0C

seems to be the sweet spot

@vernal cape

[vernal cape]

for TID?

[half quest]

yes

I tried 0D and it was giving me an overrun

[vernal cape]

yep, that's normal, TID is unchangeable

so if datasheet says it's x bits long, you can expect to read x bits :p

[half quest]

Does the user data matter? @vernal cape

Cause that thing is going on for like ever

[vernal cape]

depends if there's anything in it

[half quest]

just 00 00 00 00 00

All 00's

[vernal cape]

put in 1F, it should read everything

then CTRL+A the data

[half quest]

RFU? @vernal cape

[vernal cape]

try 04, same as TID, that should be fixed length

doubt there's anything in there though

[half quest]

that one just said memory locked

[vernal cape]

ooooh

a mystery!

[half quest]

Would that one matter?

[vernal cape]

it could, but I doubt it, though the fact that it is locked is certainly not standard

[half quest]

should i try writing to the RW tag and giving it a go?

[vernal cape]

I guess if you have a spare several years on your hands you could try inputting passwords to try and unlock it

[vernal cape]

sure!

[half quest]

oh god

[vernal cape]

^^

I'm sure there's better ways, maybe someone who has better knowledge than me in that regard has some way of calculating the password out of the rest of the tag info

[half quest]

when trying to write the TID its telling me memory overrun

hmm

[vernal cape]

ah

[vernal cape]

here comes this

the other problem:
we have absolutely fuckall info on those RW tags

no memory map or anything.

[half quest]

Lovely haha

[vernal cape]

no maker, specs, datasheets, nada

and in this case, apparently the memory length of the TID on the RW tag seems to be shorter than the Higgs3's 96 bits

which, as you say, lovely

I guess try and cut out words one by one starting from the very end until it fits

hopefully it still works in the end, but if it doesn't, that'll likely be the cause

imma message the seller, try and get some shred of info on these tags

[half quest]

yeah so i removed some stuff from the end and it eventually wrote

[vernal cape]

hmmm, actually the listing has some shreds of info, 96bit EPC, 512 bit user.

[half quest]

nothing about the TID though?

[vernal cape]

nope

just "changeable"

[half quest]

intrigue

[vernal cape]

very

[half quest]

Unfortunately it did not work with the cut off info @vernal cape

[vernal cape]

damnit

[half quest]

Wonder if that other tag I found that you called sketchy would work

[vernal cape]

I wonder too

apparently that site is legit too, don't remember who but someone here bought from there already

[half quest]

Yeah I remember seeing them say that

Aren’t too many tags to really choose from it seems

[vernal cape]

yeah, it's a very niche thing

there are only a handfull of applications that you would require TID changeable tags for

and it's a handfull with a few missing fingers

[half quest]

@vernal cape I ordered that tag because curious

[vernal cape]

I'll be sure to nag you to get info on it then when you get it in the mail

😛

[half quest]

haha as much as I nag you, by all means nag away

[vernal cape]

^^

[true shadow]

The tid writing is not implemented yet, I tried it as well @half quest Frux pointed a line in a code where he currently disabled it, he will make it an option in the future

[half quest]

Yeah figured that one out unfortunately. I just started using the demo software digits mentioned way earlier

[true shadow]

Yeah you can do it with that one apparently I never tried it though

I used a different reader and demo app to do it, that was simpler

[half quest]

Yeah the one you’re using is on order for me still. Should be coming soon I think. I actually dm’ed you to see if I could get help setting that application up

[eager moss]

hey @here i forgot who it was that had the tid rewritable tag but if you compile from tag-id-detail branch, I have the options to enable whichever bank to write including tid, lmk if you try it

[eager moss]

hehe ^

[eager moss]

that means you’re trying to write more bytes than it can handle

try truncating the length

[half quest]

Truncating worked and I was able to write however the tag didn’t work

Which is unfortunate

[eager moss]

yea :(.

[vernal cape]

I blame the lack of docs on that RW tag

[half quest]

I bought the other one though so maybe that one’s a bit nicer?

[candid scarab]

the magic tag...

[vernal cape]

yup, looks as shit as ours ^^

[half quest]

Thats the one!

I even forgot it in my bag and my laptop squished and bent it last night 🙃

But it still works somehow

[true shadow]

you got that one from aliexpress or somewhere else?

[balmy stone]

What's a Magic Tag?

[vernal cape]

it's originally a very special kind of NFC tag that has the ability to have it's UID, it's serial number, changed. here it's used by extention in a UHF RFID setting to mean the same thing, but with TID instead of UID

[balmy stone]

Alright

So what ur saying is that it generates new codes?

[vernal cape]

No

What I'm saying is that TID can be changed by you, which is not the case normaly

[vernal cape]

Alright lil board update:

• I have boxes!
  I'm waiting just a bit to see if something related works itself out, but we've never been closer!

[stuck nymph]

Almost there!! I’m excited

[vernal cape]

so almost there it's not even fun anymore!

I've been prepping my order for V2

the sim/sam connectors are out of stock, 25 weeks lead time 😭

[stuck nymph]

McXcuse me? 25 weeks? Holy shit

It will be fine I didn’t want a V2 until 2027 anyways

[vernal cape]

XD

Hopefully they come back in stock sooner, but yeah, lead times are insane

[lime hull]

We ended up switching some parts on the NARD boards

[vernal cape]

yeah, I did the dumb aproach and did not use a multi-part footprint, so I'm stuck with needing those for now

LCSC, Mouser, Farnell, Digikey: nada (apart from the one I know that's out of stock at farnell)

[vernal cape]

https://tenor.com/3K7V.gif

I bit the bullet. my wallet is bleeding. cables will be happening.

[vernal cape]

alright, what cable(s) options would people be needing? right now I'm looking at a short cable option tailored for the YRM1001, and a 10cm pigtail option

[true shadow]

Would this be for those of us who removed the stock cable already?

[vernal cape]

Yes, or just those that want a cleaner build without two feet of cable dangling on the side ^^

Or those that want to use a module that doesn't use Picoblade!

[stuck nymph]

600 euros holy shit

I’m good with a short cable for the 01 module

[vernal cape]

yeah, it's the crimper work was supposed to buy so many moons ago.

if work don't buy it (for work + me), then I'll have to (for me)

[stuck nymph]

are they going to cover it after the fact at all?

[vernal cape]

nope

[stuck nymph]

It’s kind of messed up if you need it for work and they don’t supply it

[vernal cape]

what might happen is my idiot N+2 learns I'm using my personal tool for work purposes, and has me buy one for work

[stuck nymph]

Hopefully within the return window of buying yours lol

[vernal cape]

and that's the leitmotiv in my work.

[vernal cape]

I'll keep mine, it's an investment

kinda the whole if all you have is a hammer thing

if all you have is a picoblade crimper, every connector starts being picoblade

^^

[stuck nymph]

Yeah I guess it makes sense if you actually plan on using it a whole lot

[stuck nymph]

lol yeah

We do things a bit different here lol can’t imagine shooting ourselves in the foot like that if one of our engineers told me they need something I just assume it’s to either work faster or better so it’s an almost automatic yes

[vernal cape]

they'll be on sale for 5 bucks each, and as an add-on for 4, how does that sound?

regardless of cable length , pigtail or full cable, etc.

[stuck nymph]

I did have to tell one of them no however last week because the guy wanted 5 extra X1Cs and that is just not happening he already has 5 to play with

[stuck nymph]

As long as you’re actually making a profit on them it’s fine

It’s a big investment, make sure it pays out a little bit or at the very least breaks even lol

[vernal cape]

it should, provided I make a lot of cables ^^

also it's a molex crimper, from my (very short) experience with another crimper from them (spox crimper, for certain robotics servomotors, AX12, MX64, ...), they're very very nice

[left oak]

Will you be selling any unassembled boards while waiting for parts?

[vernal cape]

I can if people want, but none of the parts are made to be hand-assembled apart from the headers, and the SEC1210 is very much only solderable with hot-air (or reflow)

That said, apart from the SIM sockets and whatever UHF module you pick (apart from the M5 stack one), everything is sourceable from Mouser

Also, this being a double sided board means you pretty much need adhesive to hold the bottom parts as you solder the top

TLDR, not the simplest board to assemble if you don't have very good tools

[distant flare]

shorty for the YRM1001 sounds good to me

I guess that means I can cut the existing cable now to test the module

[meager echo]

oooh, I never thought about that issue with soldering double sided smd... 🙂

[vernal cape]

yeah, I ot lucky and salvaged more boards than I want to admit, and ran across this on a double sided board. glad I did too ^^

[vernal cape]

cries in wallet

[vernal cape]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

IT'S THE WRONG LOCATOR

FOR FUCKS SAKE

and the tool I actually need was cheaper 😭

[rotund token]

That’s horrible luck 😦

[meager echo]

fuck 😦

can't sent it back?

[vernal cape]

opened a return request, we'll see 🥲

[eager moss]

oh no

[vernal cape]

eh, it happens

if I don't get authorisation to send it back, I guess I'm gonna have to start using picoblade PCB-to-cable terminatls

unless they're just male pins for cable to cable interconnects?

oh. yep. just male cable ends for cable-cable connections

[vernal cape]

No Return for Freya :c

[stuck nymph]

Oh damn

[vernal cape]

I'm thinking I'll try and see if I can still use the crimper without the locator that comes with it, if if it works I'll just order the correct locator.

[vernal cape]

Hmmm.... Not great 🤔

Eh. Investment.

[vernal cape]

Tiny Board Update!
-V2 works.
-V2 is feasible to assemble by hand, with nothing other than a good iron, a fine hoof tip for it, and hot air.

[brazen gale]

i want that

[stuck nymph]

It looks awesome damn

[vernal cape]

Alright, I'll have sent the order for the correct crimping plier by Monday I think, so in a week it should be there pretty much.

Also I will be selling off all the V1s first so I don't have to deal with double stock. Also I only had 2 sim slots leftover from the first production run ^^;

So can't build them even if I wanted.

[stuck nymph]

So remind me what’s the difference between v1 and v2?

[vernal cape]

Slightly more logical component placement, and an extra SAM slot.
The extra SAM slot is there for... Well for not much for now, as I just learned talking to @harsh igloo ^^
But it gives us options for doing things down the line, and that's good!

[stuck nymph]

I guess it makes sense I mean both work as intended for UHF so I guess that’s all that matters really lol but it’s nice to have the SAMs

[vernal cape]

Oh, also, there's an option to use SAM chips instead of a SAM slot.

[lime hull]

Those are probably going to get used more for seader and nfc, but I'm going to have fun with a U90 SAM.

Regular SAMs are usually 20-60 dollars US

U90s are $300-400

[vernal cape]

YIKES!
why so expensive, just rare/specialized ?

[vernal cape]

Tiny cable update: I crimped one as best I could, and it works exactly as planned 😄

[true shadow]

So sick!

what are the side pin-outs for?

[vernal cape]

ICSP and SPI connectors!

[true shadow]

very awesome

[vernal cape]

Yep! That way you can dump and program AVR uCs as well, and read SPI memory for example!

[true shadow]

yes, why are they so expensive? Do they have some very specialized hard to get keys on them or some unique functionality?

[vernal cape]

Both I think

[true shadow]

oh nice, so i no longer need to wire up stuff using wires when using AVR flasher

do v1 boards have that as well?

[vernal cape]

Yep, but they use 10 pin ICSP instead

Thinking of, I could propose some 2x3 and 2x5 DuPont clone housings 🤔

[haughty drum]

Hey, im new here so sorry for any dumb questions, is the yrm100 module the only additional module i need for the uhf functionality or is there anything else? Thank you in advance

[lime hull]

Because HID doesn't sell those standalone.

Regular reader SAMs don't have the keys that the U90 does, or the firmware.

So, the only way to get a U90 SAM is from a U90, and those aren't cheap.

$300-400 is the used price.

https://www.id-enhancements.com/hid-iclass-se-u90-long-range-reader-rdrseu909k00000/

New is a bit more expensive

[stuck nymph]

Yeah if you scroll up far enough you’ll see our first attempts at making them work, you can just wire it directly to the flipper with some jumpers. Unless you mean with the board that digits is making in which case the answer is also yes you only need the module

[haughty drum]

Thank you 🙏

[stuck nymph]

Wiring is not as straightforward as one would hope out of the box, it doesn’t line up to the usb ttl you get so that would be the tricky part but hey drop a message if you have any questions there are some pretty smart cookies in this project that could help

[haughty drum]

Ill probably have questions, just an aliexpress shipment time away 🙂

Thanks for the help

[vernal cape]

alright, order's up for the correct crimping plier, stated to arrive this friday

[vernal cape]

Little break while I wait for stuff to arrive.
The prototype, the finished product. Little NFC selector puck, can hold 12 chips!

On an id card for size

[limber pelican]

Neat

[vernal cape]

I wanted to put ntag 215s on there, but I can't find just the ICs for sale/ in stock anywhere it seems ^^;

[stark bay]

I think you can get them with just the wire antenna.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms9pOHk

[willow basin]

Anyone with yrm1002 and has some spare time to help me out here? 👉 👈

[vernal cape]

Don't ask to ask, just ask 🙂

[vernal cape]

ooh, that might work!

wait, nope. Ntag 213

[stark bay]

Probably message some vendors

[half quest]

@vernal cape so remember that tag I ordered that looked different?

[vernal cape]

uhhhhh, remind me again ^^;

the other TID rw tag?

[half quest]

@vernal cape this one haha https://shop.mtoolstec.com/product/tid-changeable-uhf-900mhz-tag

[vernal cape]

ah, yeah!

[half quest]

Well I got it in the mail yesterday and take a look 😂 @vernal cape

[true shadow]

lol! Well at least they sent you a writable tag

[vernal cape]

but

but

but

IT'S THE SAME THING?!

[half quest]

Hahahahhaha

[vernal cape]

xDDDDDD

[half quest]

That’s what I’m saying

[vernal cape]

damnit

hey, maybe they might respond to datasheet asks!

[half quest]

Possibly yeah

[vernal cape]

he

hehe

hehehehehehe

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

they sent me... a shipping box of 5 crimp tools

instead of a single unit

xD

[vernal cape]

(and I only paid for 1 unit )

[limber pelican]

Lol

[vernal cape]

and just like that, the tindie listing has been submited for aproval!

[harsh igloo]

that's really cool looking!

[distant flare]

And just like that, ordered 😄 lol

[vernal cape]

Thanks!

[vernal cape]

Alrighty, I messaged a few of you to give you a bit of a head start to order because you're devs/part of the design input.
I'll drop the Tindie link here Monday for everyone to see 🙂
If you don't make it in time don't worry, V2 will be a thing a bit later on.

[distant flare]

Oh boy sorry if I went out of order there but I knew your tindie link heh

[vernal cape]

No worries, you're good! 😉

[lone turtle]

Tindie is killing me

their backend gateway keeps timing out

got it

[vernal cape]

[lone turtle]

any recommended sellers for the yrm100 by the way? the one linked off the github no longer sells the product, plus my success on ali has been really hit or miss

[next kelp]

This is probably the store you want: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804035982302.html
make sure to read the options carefully, as you dont want to accidentally buy 100 UHF tags lol
I think you'll want this 25x40mm one
@vernal cape might need to confirm I'm remembering the right size of YRM100

Because I probably need to get on it and order one myself now that I have the main host board ordered from tindie 😅

#1136167977708957737 message
Yeah if nothing has changed, it 'should' be correct, and can also support the 2 & 3 dbi ones

[vernal cape]

Here's the right one
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EQm83HR

Yanpodo is the seller, you want YRM1001, 25x35

[limber pelican]

But the big one 😂

[next kelp]

Funny enough while both our links go to the same seller, your link has cheaper shipping than mine 😂

[vernal cape]

Aliexpress in a nutshell xD

[vernal cape]

Also my link has the module that fite the cutout in the board

[vernal cape]

for reference, I have updated the listing with the link for the aliexpress page 🙂

making cables right now!

[vernal cape]

coming back to this, while I'm thinking cables, making cables, eating cables,
what connector does this thing have?

[vapid basin]

I just saw this ping lol uhhhh which connector do you speak of

[vernal cape]

The one(s?) on the modules you got from the auction ^^

[vernal cape]

The Caen RFID modules

[vapid basin]

Ahhhh I have to figure that out

Also I just picked up one of these boards of tindie to finally play with lol

[vernal cape]

send me a pic, I might be able to help!

[vernal cape]

I saw that! I think you got the last one too!

[stuck nymph]

Damn guess I’ll wait for V2 🥲

[vernal cape]

🫂

went so fast

no bodgy board for you! only matte black bodgless perfection!

I should make stickers....

[stuck nymph]

It did lol literally just walked out of the airport and saw the whole think and I was like damn the one day I’m not on my phone

But it just shows that there is actually a lot of interest!

[vernal cape]

yep!

there's some stuff going on in the background that shows that A LOT. might talk about it if it ever happens but for now, radio silence 😉

but yeah. V2 is some ways away :/

[stuck nymph]

Well hopefully whatever it is it happens

[vernal cape]

got everything ready apart from the sim slots, those are out of stock at my supplier :c

and the replacement that might work....

also out of stock.

[stuck nymph]

Yeah i remember by like 30 weeks right?

[vernal cape]

I might have a lead on a fix, but I still have to make sure it'll work

[vernal cape]

something like that yeah. basically august I think

it sucks

[stuck nymph]

Damn that does suck

It’s fine though I’ll wait but I’m the meantime I’m going to bed, the flight was kind of horrible but I made it to Paris!

[vernal cape]

WAIT

YOU'RE IN PARIS?!

[stuck nymph]

Just landed yep

[vernal cape]

ok.

ok.

wait.

there is one left that I wasn't planning on selling...

but this might be too good an oportunity

[stuck nymph]

Aw shit lol

[vernal cape]

how long are you there for?

[stuck nymph]

Im here with my boss lol

[vernal cape]

xD

[stuck nymph]

We leave at 3

[vernal cape]

ah, you leave paris?

wait, just layover?

[stuck nymph]

To Grenoble and fly out of Grenoble to South Korea in about a day lol

[vernal cape]

🙃

[stuck nymph]

It was just cheaper to Paris lol

[vernal cape]

damnit

[stuck nymph]

Yeah no worries, I am coming back in like a month and a half ish I think and actually staying in Paris for a few days so I’ll definitely let you know!

[vernal cape]

sweet! please do!

[stuck nymph]

But thanks for even considering it that’s pretty cool

[vernal cape]

hey, when I get chances like that, I'll take em!

[stuck nymph]

Alright well my body says it’s 3 in the morning so I’ll let yall go for a few hours!

[vernal cape]

have a safe flight!

[vapid basin]

I can get some close up photos later today

[vernal cape]

sweet!

[wicked wigeon]

Reminder that it's later tomorrow now if you're at the lab lol

[vernal cape]

xD

[vernal cape]

alright all boards and cables and inlays are packed! now to figure out address stickers!

[vapid basin]

Know anywhere I can pick up one of the modules btw?

[vernal cape]

there's a link on the product page 🙂

[brittle vale]

Hello all ,i am researching the UHF RFID as the there is less research i can find on the internet on the security of UHF TAGS ,i have been reading the datasheets posted here and and the findings this community is sharing i am thankfull for the knowledge , i will share my findings as i progress,i do own a flipper zero i have ordered the YRM100.@Digits i am looking foward to buy your next batch of boards are you able to sell them with the SAM included?

[vernal cape]

Nope, you'll have to source the SAM yourself!

[lime hull]

Just to be clear, there are many different types of SAMs. HID SE SAMs in particular fall in a few different types, but can basically be divided into 3 types: omnikey SAMs (designed to be controlled by something else), reader SAMs (designed to control everything), and the U90 SAMs (which are a special thing and kinda like an omnikey).

U90 would be the UHF reader HID makes, and that is not presently supported by seader.
Omnikey SAMs are the ones sold for external use (the ones you can buy retail), and they are supported for Seader. It should let you read SEOS, HID Mifare, HID Desfire EV1, iClass/Picopass SE.

I can't tell you for certain that reader SAMs won't work with seader, but it might need some modifications to seader.

[true shadow]

Those messages should be pinned 🙂

[vernal cape]

we need to make a cheat-sheet everytime Mistal give us info tbh, stuff's gold for noobs like me

[limber pelican]

Legit

[meager echo]

Hi, sorry been offline for a bit

Can we order?

[vernal cape]

not anymore! sold out in about a day ^^;

[meager echo]

Damn 😦

[vernal cape]

don't worry, V2 will come. not soon, but soon™️

[meager echo]

Ok, can I reserve one?

[stuck nymph]

Sad dolphin noises

[vernal cape]

it'll be a bigger batch this time, and I'll order more components than just enough this time too, so I'll have a quicker turnaround 🙂

I might have a lead to make soon™️ become soon, but I still have some stuff to check before that, and shipping stuff before that too.

[stuck nymph]

Keep us posted 🫡

[meager echo]

Yes please, I might also be able to pick up depending, got some train travel happening this year

[vernal cape]

I will 🫡

[vernal cape]

that could be good! I get in paris about once a month or so for a day

[meager echo]

I'll be in paris this sunday and on the 28 this month.

after that, probably september.

(mostly passing through)

[vernal cape]

definetly later then, the leadtime on the missing components is 25 weeks 🥲
and the soon™️ to soon option will probably take about a month or so to get here if it happens

[meager echo]

For june I'll be doing ams-italy and haven't picked my routes yet

damn, that's half a year 😦

[vernal cape]

yeah, it sucks

[meager echo]

Was so hoping on v1

[vernal cape]

dunno why it's out of stock everywhere, it sucks :/

[meager echo]

after october travel south is unlikely at the moment.

actually after september

But I'll keep checking in here, fingers crossed.

[brittle vale]

ok that is going to be quite a mission HID is no longer selling them,but hopefully i will get some.

[brittle vale]

someone buy NFC Elendil the Tall a drink

[vernal cape]

to be 100% clear, you do not need the SAM part to work with UHF, unless you're looking for U90 sams like Mistial is working on.

[brittle vale]

i will take 2 please count me twice

[vernal cape]

no counting, they'll be up on my store once it goes live, and I will post a link in here when it does 🙂

[brittle vale]

awesome

[brittle vale]

i was reading on the U90 it. would be nice to have the U90 SAMs,its like having a UHF VAULT

[vernal cape]

you can get them, they just are prohibitively expensive because you need to buy the reader with it. Also Seader is not yet set up to work with them.

[willow basin]

hi guys, i have everything working. i would like to check how much space is there on my tag, what would be the best way to do so?

[limber pelican]

I'd figure out the model and look at the datasheet

[vernal cape]

Look at the TID, grab the first 8 digits, should look something like E28x xxxx
What does it say exactly?

[willow basin]

E2 80 6F 12 20 00 68 02 29 D8

its these:

[willow basin]

I did that already. But there’s two different ones that look identical and I need to determine which size is the one I got.

[vernal cape]

https://github.com/Didgitalpunk/UHF-tag-and-IC-database
go in my repo, open [Digits' MDID list], and look for NXP, and the Ucode 7 and 7xm listings. whichever one matches the last three numbers (F12h) is what you have 🙂

[willow basin]

thanks a lot! It is the bigger one. Thats great!

[vernal cape]

update for my buyers: I finally figured out all the shit with customs declarations and shipping labels and tracking (trust me it's non-trivial), and packages should ship tomorrow/monday.
Sorry for the delay, it's the first time I need to do this stuff, and it took a while to figure out on my own ^^;

Regarding tracking: there is tracking provided, but it might be partial tracking for certain destinations, with tracking in france up to the border and then nothing untill it arrives at your adress. (for this sale we're all good, you're all on the following list)
(1) List of 45 destinations with tracking all the way to your door* (french) : Allemagne, Australie, Autriche, Belgique, Brésil, Bulgarie, Canada, Chine, Chypre, Corée du Sud, Croatie, Danemark, Espagne, Estonie, Etats-Unis, Finlande, Grèce, Hong-Kong, Hongrie, Inde, Irlande, Islande, Israël, Italie, Japon, Lettonie, Lituanie, Luxembourg, Malte, Norvège, Nouvelle-Zélande, Pays-Bas, Pologne, Portugal, Roumanie, Royaume-Uni, Russie, Singapour, Slovaquie, Slovénie, Suède, Suisse, République Tchèque, Taiwan, Turquie (liste susceptible d’évoluer au long de l’année).

[limber pelican]

woot

[vernal cape]

woot indeed!

[harsh igloo]

Surprised I don't see the USA

[limber pelican]

I'm surprised you don't too because it's there

In between Estonia and Finland

[vernal cape]

xD

Etats-unis :p

[limber pelican]

Exactly

This guy can't even recognise his own country, jeez 😂

[vernal cape]

think spanish, Estados-unidos

[vernal cape]

in my best hard-french accent Psssss, Americans

[harsh igloo]

it's always weird/strange how countries have names for other countries and the other country is like "that's not what we call ourselves..."

[vernal cape]

very

sometimes it's waaaaay out there too

[limber pelican]

To be fair I call a lot of people "cunt" and that's not what they call themselves either and that's all within the one country 😂

On the topic of French though, came across this earlier 😂

[brittle vale]

Hi ALL,I have been tinkering withe uhf readers at work in most cases i realised that most applications use the EPC as the identifier not the TID i assume most readers are set to read EPC and use it as the identifier like a UID on an RFID TAG.With that said someone here was tryng to clone a uhf tag on a windshield, i wiill suggest 1st get a similar tag as the one on your windshield and change the EPC of newly acquired tag to the same value as original tag and test if it does not work change user memory bank to be the same as the original tag if the reader is set to read EPC and User memory the clone should work.

if it doesnt work then you can use the rewrittable tag and coppy all the data on original tag to TID rewittable tag that will work.

[vernal cape]

alright, hopefully ship tomorrow. I have five left to finish packing/taping/stickering/declaring. shit's loooong.

[next kelp]

Wait you mean this isn't prime 2-day shipping? /s

[vernal cape]

alright! it's al shipped! I'll update the shipping numbers a bit later today 😄

well, it's later today, all tracking has been sent to tindie, you should probably recieve an email saying it's shipped!

[vernal cape]

I am absofuckinglutely pooped.

Packing and shipping all the orders in basically 24 hours... Would not recommend

I'll probably do drops for V2, say 10 boards every two weeks or something.

I hate drops. Fucking despise it as a customer. But I don't think I can work without something like it going forward :c

[stark bay]

How many did you ship?

[vernal cape]

all of them + 1

13 packages total, some crazy Aussie bloke bought one for a friend. good'on ya Aussie!

[lime hull]

Have you considered contract assembly?

For the seader, we let macrofab handle it.

Just had to get the volume.

[vernal cape]

I have, but I actually enjoy the fab work ^^
It's really the packing/shipping/paperwork that sucks

[lime hull]

Ah.

[vernal cape]

I just need to figure out a better workflow for that part I think. Streamline it so it takes less time, etc.

[harsh igloo]

Have you gotten the UHF app into the app catalog?

[stuck nymph]

Looking good!

[vernal cape]

I was about to say "wait that's my design!"

😄

[distant flare]

Hey while you’re here, how were you mounting the YRM1001 to the board?

[vernal cape]

I'm always here :p

take some snips and cut the four little tabs holding the qr code bit

[distant flare]

Then solder the small holes? Or use some sort screw etc in the larger ones

[vernal cape]

no solder, screws on each corner of the module

M2.5 iirc

[distant flare]

Got it

So I’m assuming the smaller holes are unused and I don’t need them aligned then

[vernal cape]

exactly. we thought they might have been an alternative way to connect the reader module. they are very much not

[distant flare]

Welp I need screws but so far so good

[vernal cape]

YAY!

[stuck nymph]

Amazon has a nice little nylon screw bundle pretty cheap thats what I like to use most on PCBs since I am a bit of an overtorquer and have ruined a few boards lol

and nylon screws are pretty neat since you can snip them off and leave them flush to the nut

[vernal cape]

I should make a little guide on how the thing is meant to be assembled

it still feels super weird to see shit I made in other's hands ^^

[wicked wigeon]

I also got mine in today, Jay have been at work and didn't get to futz with it yet

[harsh igloo]

mine is in my city: I highly suspect it'll be in my mailbox tomorrow

[limber pelican]

Mine hasn't had a tracking update from the day it was posted, "cleared and awaiting international departure", but that's not uncommon with auspost...

[vernal cape]

Damnit, you'd think they'd fucking scan the thing once in a while 😑

[limber pelican]

You'd think

[willow basin]

morning!

quck question, i cant read TID of my tag, im using this SDK uhf reader but im getting memory overrun when i try reading TID. Do you know why could it be?

[vernal cape]

How many words are you trying to read on the TID?
Grab screens

[vernal cape]

forgot to tag you in my reply 🤦‍♀️ ⬆️

[willow basin]

I tried 8, it should be 6 or 4 or?

[vernal cape]

it should be whatever the tag you're scanning has, and not longer. it's like your teacher telling you "read up to page 139" but your book only has 100 pages

[lime hull]

I think mine just arrived.

[upbeat kettle]

I just went to pick mine up! 🎉

[limber pelican]

Meanwhile my last tracking update is in France on the 16th 😅

[upbeat kettle]

doesn't look like it 😆

[vernal cape]

Nah, it's not on there (yet?). there still seems to be quite a few bugs and crashes with it

[harsh igloo]

I noticed it didn't pick up the UHF module on initial run, and sometimes when scanning i'd move it so it was facing a tag and that'd crash it.

Seader is somewhat simlar in using uart, which is itself just stealing a bunch of code from the GPIO app, you're always welcome to steal code from it

[vernal cape]

yeah, the initial module detection seems to be a wierd behaviour, when you're connected to 5V via USB during that it seems to pick up the module way faster/instantly

[maiden barn]

Does a delay just need to be added between the furi_hal_power_enable_otg(); and scene_manager_next_scene(uhf_app->scene_manager, UHFSceneModuleInfo);? Same seems to be true of starting w/ 5V over GPIO already enabled

[harsh igloo]

Maybe it needs to turn on 5v (https://github.com/bettse/seader/blob/main/seader.c#L28C9-L28C34) and then do a brief wait before continuing on

[harsh igloo]

samesies!!!

[maiden barn]

Beat ya to it!

[vernal cape]

yep, that's what I think it is as well

[maiden barn]

Some kind of auto-retry interval might be a solid solution, if the issue persists, so folks don't have to spam LEFT

[harsh igloo]

yeah, seader has 3 attempts before it gives up

I'd jump in, but I'm worries I'll end up maintaining another app, and I'm already doing 2

[maiden barn]

Lmao I couldn't even keep up maintaining 1

[vernal cape]

maybe just dip your toes? tini dip? 😛

but yeah, a wait after 5V power and then a few retries to connect before saying module not found would be nice

[maiden barn]

I can prob PR that tonight

[harsh igloo]

I'm blanking, what app did you do?

[vernal cape]

that'd be sweet, thank you

[maiden barn]

Magspoof; could never get it happy on the internal RFID/NFC coils, but had it working over GPIO

Just lost steam

Seems other folks have kept the code alive through API changes as it's still bundled with a few of the CFWs (+ some changes), but AFAIK only for GPIO use, no one has been trying another hand at internal TX

[vernal cape]

plus @candid scarab made a cool board for it, so.....

[limber pelican]

Got a link handy to a current fork? I patched it once but haven't updated it since it last broke

[maiden barn]

Lmao the way I found out folks were building boards for my app was I literally got an ad on Instagram for a board; was surreal seeing them writeup a blog post walking through the interface I made for my own testing purposes

[vernal cape]

xD

wild