UHF | RFID for flipper

[lime hull]

It has software that directs the hardware to talk to various credentials and calculate keys

Some SIMs have software that works with phones to do NFC things. For example, the "ISIS" payment network combined an EMV applet (europay/mastercard/visa) with a phone SIM applet.

[vernal cape]

nice, thanks for the quick course @lime hull , I actually understood most of it! I remember applets on SIMs from a defcon talk about building your own mobile network by hacking/reprogramming sim cards or something

[vernal cape]

fully enclosed case

and more secure open case!

[true shadow]

..just joined this awesome project here, I don't suppose the NARD board is available to buy anywhere yet?

[vernal cape]

did you google it?

[true shadow]

As in how i found this project?

I got here from the Frux repo, just spent a good half hour catching up. Saw that you are really close to releasing it.

[limber pelican]

NARD isn't UHF it's just the SAMs

[lime hull]

You can get a NARD SAM board on red team tools

SAMs are getting harder to get

[true shadow]

I misspoke, I was talking about the board referenced here: https://github.com/Didgitalpunk/UHF-RFID_NARD_Board where you can install a SAM and a UHF module

[stark bay]

I wonder if 👆should be renamed to avoid confusion. It’s not really a nard board but just a board with the sec1210

[true shadow]

Yeah but doesn't it mean I'll be able to add a SAM on it and use a Seader app?

[harsh igloo]

you will: I think the point is that the "nard" is a thing, and this isn't that, even if it shares some functionality, so it should have different name

[true shadow]

I see what you mean. Is there something NARD board can do that this won't be able to? (Other then NARD having 2 sim slots that is)

[harsh igloo]

not that I can think of

[stark bay]

NARD is a bad name for the other board too... no need to extend that to this one

[wicked wigeon]

Is nard supposed to be an acronym?

[stark bay]

"Not An Rfid Device" would fit the acronym

[wicked wigeon]

Haha alright

[vernal cape]

Good point. Is there a way to rename the repo?

[harsh igloo]

https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/creating-and-managing-repositories/renaming-a-repository

[vernal cape]

Yep, found it just as you posted it ^^
It is done, it's now UHF-RFID_SAM-interface_Board

[vernal cape]

Not available yet simply because the component order didn't go through, so it'll be mid January.

[lime hull]

Got a bunch ready to go out to various people, if you want to DM me your details so it goes out when I send the others.

Have a few to send out this week

[vernal cape]

Will do!

[candid scarab]

finally able to read my fastrak pass.. there's a few differences between each occupancy setting, but one of the nibbles is a hex 1, 2, or 3 depending on the setting!

[vernal cape]

One of these?

[limber pelican]

Neat. Is that an active tag (has a battery) or passive?

[vernal cape]

I'm not sure, I see a teardown of one from def on 2008 with a battery in it though, not sure if it's the same as the one pictured

What I want to know is, does the tag actually have I/O and read the state of the switch, or does that switch actually select between three different tags...

[candid scarab]

yep, but a different shape

[candid scarab]

mine is just a tag antenna, and the switch moves a chip to make contact with it

[lime sleet]

Has anyone been able to read an EZ-Pass or EPass/SunPass with one of these yet?

[true shadow]

I have the 60mm module. For me the inner distance between holes is 61mm

[vernal cape]

Nice, thanks! I'll check with my footprint to see if I got it right

[true shadow]

Anyone had issues with connecting their YRM1004 module? I switched the tx/rx and wired it in parallel with usb stick but still get device not found. The reader works correctly when I use it through usb and it does blink once when I power on the flipper

[stuck nymph]

Yeah I had that exact same issue

The pin out on the usb is not the same as it is in the connector

We mostly just cut the wires and follow the diagram in the website coming from the module itself

I don’t remember who gave me the website but it really helped when I get home I can try and find the message but if you scroll up a bit it should be there

[true shadow]

Ok so I have to go to wires directly and bypass usb?

[stark bay]

Yeah the usb is wonky. Direct would be better

#1136167977708957737 message

[stuck nymph]

@true shadow I found the image I dont remember who sent it but this is the correct pinout i have made a couple different module boards with it and it works. hope this helps.

[true shadow]

Oh yes I saw that thank you!

I am gonna try to cut out the usb thing. It shouldn’t matter since it’s hooked up in parallel but just in. Are

[stuck nymph]

the usb aint worth it tbh just cut the cables and split them

but you can just unplug it form the USB lol

[true shadow]

yeah looks like connecting in parallel with usb is what made it not work. Everything is working now

[eager moss]

hola

it’s holiday time

[vernal cape]

Indeed! Happy holidays, UHF RFID gang!

[stuck nymph]

Happy holidays gang!

[limber pelican]

oh yeah what was the connector? JST PH2.0 looks slightly different? looks like the JST SH1.0 but the pin spacing on SH1.0 is too small

ah GH is 1.25mm, of course there's in-between sizes, and that matches measuring the pins

[vernal cape]

the one on the module?

Picoblade by MOLEX

when I finally get the parts order done through work, there will be a crimping plier and some contacts in there too, so i can make custom length cables

[limber pelican]

Hrm apparently the two are similar enough you can physically plug them in together, but sounds like there's subtle differences

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/507451/are-molex-picoblade-connectors-compatible-with-jst-gh

comparing the two side by side picoblade does seem to be the right one, cheers!

[vernal cape]

that feels wrong, GH looks like it has two blades on either side on the socket, contacting a 'track' on the connector, whereas picoblade is just a (weird) pin-goes-in-mating-hole thing
so to me, trying to put pico in GH would just result in the GH contact blades resting on the pico's housing.
(after typing all this, I realized I probably have at least one GH set somwhere in the bucket of cables. brb)

[vernal cape]

can't seem to find one in my bin, so it might have been at work that I saw one go by

found it

GH

vs

Picoblade

[limber pelican]

yup that was the conclusion I reached eventually too when comparing the two connectors

Cheers for the sanity check though

[meager echo]

Cool to read the updates, looking forward for when the board is available 🙂

[vernal cape]

Thanks for reading!
parts order should go through this work week, so i'd tentatively say boards should be available at the end of the month if all goes well 🙂

[vernal cape]

I'm gonna be making a 1.2 version at one point removing/changing some stuff that either wasn't needed (enable switch, enable pin, possibly moving the SEC1210 to try and fit the second SAM slot in there as well)

but that's a long ways away most likey.

[meager echo]

Cool, what are the SAM slots for? My main interest is the UHF bit, as these tags got used a lot here.

[vernal cape]

SAM, or Secure Access Module, (as far as I understand it) enables you to read certain encrypted cards like DESfire and such

it works with the Seader app developped by Bettse, aka NFC Gandalf

[meager echo]

Ah, neat

[limber pelican]

specifically it interfaces with a SAM card (ISO 7816), the most common use today is to throw in a HID SAM card which has HID keys on it which allows reading HID encoded iClass SE, SEOS, and DESFire cards (at least when standard keyed are used)

but in theory can interface with any SAM card not just HIDs

[vernal cape]

thanks for the explanation @limber pelican! I am very flaky on how all that works , but the people asked for it, so it's on the board! 😛

[limber pelican]

for sure it'd be very neat

[vernal cape]

yep!

I have a SAM in the mail courtesy of Mistiald so that I can test boards after assembly

[waxen tapir]

Is there a consensus on recommended UHF hardware?

[vernal cape]

what do you mean?

[waxen tapir]

I know there's UHF GPIO addons for the flipper, not really sure what hardware there is or if there's a recommended chip to use

[vernal cape]

check the github

[waxen tapir]

Basically I want to play with UHF without spending ridiculous amounts of money for an independant UHF reader, and I figured an addon for the Flipper is the way to go

[vernal cape]

it has links to aliexpress listings for reader modules

also the only add-on board out there is currently in my hands :p

[waxen tapir]

Not finding any such thing...

[vernal cape]

https://github.com/frux-c/uhf_rfid#requirements

🙂

[waxen tapir]

Ahhh wrong repo 😅

[vernal cape]

xD

no worries

it's pinned in the project

[waxen tapir]

I see that now

If one already has the app via alternative FW is using the code from that repo required?

[vernal cape]

no clue, I'd wager you'd be good to go, but if you have any bugs I doubt we could help you since we wouldn't know it it's the CFW or the code causing them 🙂

[waxen tapir]

Makes sense

[vernal cape]

started working on V2 proper, gonna try to add the secon SAM slot

[vernal cape]

V2 is done. idk if there ever will be a run of this version, but it'll be on github regardless

[vernal cape]

forgot to link the github 🤦‍♀️
https://github.com/Didgitalpunk/UHF-RFID_SAM-interface_Board/

[vernal cape]

any other feature requests I could squeeze in there?

[upbeat kettle]

hey Digits (and Frux!), great work 👏
Can I still get in on that first batch of boards that you're expecting?

or are they all "booked" already 😆

[vernal cape]

I literally have not kept a list, but I have at least 10 available! I know people have shown interest but since nothing is available yet (still waiting on parts), there's that ^^
But sure! I'll post a message here once they're all assembled to see who wants to buy one. I made a tindie account but it feels way complicated.

thanks for the interest ^^

[lone turtle]

this is incredibly cool

[vernal cape]

wait until you realize they make super thin LEDs!

btw, yay or nay? status LED for the SEC chip.

board edge recessed mount

[limber pelican]

oh that's cool, connect it to a gpio so multi purpose?

[vernal cape]

nope, the SEC chip has a status LED output, so using that. it'll be sandwiched right beween the SAM cards basically

[limber pelican]

ah

[vernal cape]

nay?

[limber pelican]

I kinda want a bunch of addressable ones (does that even exist?) along the whole edge seeing that now 😂

[vernal cape]

xD

I know they exist, but I never seen ones that small

[limber pelican]

silliness aside status makes sense though

I'd never seen side mounted LEDs like that at all

[vernal cape]

btw on that pic, that's two LEDS stacked on top of each other. they're .6mm thick xD

[vernal cape]

me neither!

[limber pelican]

What's the part number btw?

[vernal cape]

was looking at what existed to try and make a properly slim field detector card

[limber pelican]

The proxgrind one is at least nice and smooth thanks to the resin coating

[vernal cape]

Kingbright APA1606 should get you in the ballpark

got a few of them in the next order

look at that shit! .2mm!

[vernal cape]

yeah, it looks very nice

I wanted to make a credit cared sized one with lf, hf, and UHF

running into some trouble though

mainly, I have no clue what I'm doing antenna-wise xD

and UHF seems hard to make work with just an LED

[limber pelican]

So cool, I'd never even thought about mounting an led like that

Would be a bitch to solder though I expect

[vernal cape]

I had seen these UHF LED tagshttps://www.rfidhy.com/what-are-the-applications-of-uhf-led-tags/

[limber pelican]

Yeah I can't imagine UHF being easy

https://www.adafruit.com/product/4892 hah addressable exists!

[vernal cape]

yeah ^^ I'm guessing kapton tape on the bottom, led stuck to it, and reflow with the pad holes stuffed with solder paste

[vernal cape]

omg

[limber pelican]

Oh that's fucking cool

[vernal cape]

awww, that would be proper hell to design edge pads for xD

[vernal cape]

ikr?

[limber pelican]

Yeah but imagine a multicoloured chasing effect all around the edge of a PCB

[vernal cape]

he
heheh
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEH
mouser has them, work can buy'em :p

damnit they're not the same ones :c

but these are 😄
https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/Adafruit/4892?qs=pBJMDPsKWf11yWoge8Ai4g%3D%3D

I really don't know how to go about making pads for them though.

[limber pelican]

yeah definitely an odd footprint for side mounting

[vernal cape]

I don't know any service that'd do side plating with a middle split either 🤔

if only it had been just four strips of contacts down the width 😮‍💨

Ill have to do some testing I guess

maybe cutting vias in the middle of the board with an exacto blade

aaactually, PCBway does back-drilling, where they drill out a portion of the via

[limber pelican]

Yeah I'm a little confused why they didn't go this route

[limber pelican]

4 layer board with stacked vias between 1-2 and 3-4 then routed out? 😂

Blind vias that is

[vernal cape]

Something like this

[stark bay]

I don’t think we have seen it work for some reason

[vernal cape]

The documentation does mention something about LED programming

[stark bay]

And the chips I think come pre programmed without it.

[vernal cape]

Damnit

Do you know if anyone tried programming them at all?

[distant flare]

Looking good so far, sign me up. Do you plan on including the YRM module or is there a specific one we should pick up from Aliexpress?

[vernal cape]

No YRM module as I want.to let people choose what module they prefer. That being said, the board was made with the 35*35 module in mind, with a 25*25mm antenna
Links are in Frux's repo pinned in the channel 🙂

[distant flare]

Cool yeah I’ve had one in my cart for months, was going to just build a board but I prefer having nicer boards than I can cobble together. And the SAM support makes me want it more too, I’ve been looking at the NARD but why not kill 2 birds with one stone

[vernal cape]

Exactly!

[lime hull]

Speaking of which, the SAMs were slightly delayed

Part of that is the lack of running water the past week 🙂

[vernal cape]

no worries, I hope you have water again now.
I was starting to wonder if the post hadn't lost them so thanks for the update 🙂

[lime hull]

Yeah, that won't happen for a while.

[vernal cape]

Oh damn. US?

[lime hull]

Yeah

[vernal cape]

We got like, a cm of snow here in France. Trains are stopped, busses aren't running

[lime hull]

It rarely snows here, basically every couple years

[vernal cape]

Any more and it'd be the end of civilization

[lime hull]

20cm shut down everything

I could really go for some global warming

[vernal cape]

At least that's a proper amount of snow! Enough to make snow angels and snowmen

[vernal cape]

XD

[lime hull]

I keep trying to point out to Canadians that a few degrees of warming would be great for Canada, and open up a lot of land.

lives about 2km from Canada

To go anywhere but the gas station and the grocery store requires going through canada

that little part that sticks out

[vernal cape]

oh

that's.... inconvenient xD

istg, motherfuckers and their rulers just be drawing lines willy-nilly

[limber pelican]

Very strange

[vernal cape]

can't be worse than these guys

[meager echo]

@vernal cape would really like one of the boards and I'm in europe if that helps

[meager echo]

the road there is actually still border area and not just france. So technically one wouldn't have to go into france to cross. All bit mood with the eu and schengen though.

[vernal cape]

Very much moot ^^

[vernal cape]

Sure!

[upbeat kettle]

forgot to mention I'm also in Europe!

[vernal cape]

noice

[wicked wigeon]

Wait you're in that annexed part of Canada that we claimed?
Always thought that was a funny predicament being "on an island that's land locked"

[lime hull]

49th parallel baby

Come and take it.

[wicked wigeon]

@lime hull I like you more each day lmao

[lime hull]

is actually considering opening up a gun store in Point Roberts

because getting things through Canada is not really feasible for most people

The county has declared the entire exclave as a "no shooting" zone, which complicates things

Since I want to set up a range.

[vernal cape]

@lime hull you got one of those SAM cards with a chip on top you can measure? I need to know how far up the chip sticks off the board so that I can leave clearance for it in the case I'm making

[lime hull]

Yeah, let me see if I have some here.

[true shadow]

plus one for me, take my money!! 😂

What size UHF modules do you guys mostly have? Mine is YRM100, I got the 60mm

[eager moss]

I have the 25mm

[vernal cape]

25 as well

[wooden tapir]

Definitely interested in getting my FZ up and running with the YRM1002 module I just bought, I write a lot of the server side software that processes these transponders at the toll lanes for every state, and am interested to see if I can pull the relevent specifications from SeGo, 6C, and Title21 tags. I believe that is a 6C Switchable tag, which should follow this spec or one very similar:

http://6c-toc.com/sites/default/files/6CTOC AVI Standard v3.1 rev1.pdf

[stuck nymph]

I hope that there are enough boards in the first run for all of us lol

[candid scarab]

me realizing i can't find the dumps of my fastrak tag

o wait they're probably on the other flipper

yep

[vernal cape]

I think there should be, yeah 😄

[vernal cape]

That seems really cool, you're gonna have to work with @eager moss on the code!

[vernal cape]

If there isn't, that's fine, I'll just have to do a new batch!

[true shadow]

@eager moss the TID writing is not supported yet, correct?

...yes i have some fancy tags where i can write TIDs

[eager moss]

i just have it disabled, because its not writable

i should make it an option to enable it in settings

[true shadow]

ooh love that

[eager moss]

for now you should be just able to edit the source and add it yourself temporarly

refer to the function at line 63 in uhf_worker.c

[true shadow]

sick, thank you!

these are the bad boys that i have https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256801619681844.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.55.1c601802AtD0vw&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

[eager moss]

nice. I heard comments on those being a little finicky. I guess you could review it for us

[true shadow]

when i use the usb dev tools it writes them fine

and i also have another UHF reader / writer and it writes my 2 tags correctly ..

..but i do have a UHF reader that is finicky with it

had to do it a few times till it actually writes it, so i was blaming it on the reader. Was gonna try it with our YRM UHF module and Flipper.. ill just wait until you release the update since i am not in a rush 🙂

[eager moss]

coolio. I think the tag needs certain orientation to be read

[obsidian oak]

Hi, when approximately we can expect that V2 will be for sell or V1 ? I am interested in one that Frux is using for UHF and yrm1001

[obsidian oak]

what software is used in windows to handle this device ?

[true shadow]

any UHF reader will read that tag, the UHF readers from Aliexpress come with dev kits demos, they ussually allow you to read/ write uhf tags

[vernal cape]

V2, probably never if I have enough boards for everyone. V1, still a bit away, I'm still waiting on work to process my parts order, someone is taking forever to sign off on it so it can move forwards and actually get ordered. Hopefully in a couple weeks they'll be here.

[obsidian oak]

So then can I get one from you?

[vernal cape]

of course! I'll let everyone know when the boards are ready to order, I still have to figure out pricing and look at shipping when I'll know who's ordering and from where

[limber pelican]

1 to AU for me 😁

[stuck nymph]

USA all the way baby

[candid scarab]

the moon

[vernal cape]

cheesus christ, why so far!
It's gonna cost you so much T.T

[limber pelican]

yeah 😔, where abouts are you again?

[meager echo]

europe right?

[vernal cape]

Yep, France

[obsidian oak]

so cheaper to Poland 😄

[vernal cape]

probably yes, but no clue tbh. I have to check with my sis how she ships her stuff, I'm fairly sure she has sent stuff to australia before

[stuck nymph]

So with the SAM slot on the board, would we have to source our own SAMs or would you be able to get your hands on a few and add ship them with the boards? (For an extra of course)

[vernal cape]

You'd have to source your own SAM, I know too little about that stuff to stock any of it 😓

[stuck nymph]

Oh damn, so follow up, where the fuck would I get a SAM lol

[vernal cape]

There are some website over on the seader repo

[stuck nymph]

I’ll take a look! Thanks

[vernal cape]

And I'm sure the NFC devs can give you pointers too, I have a SAM on the way courtesy of @lime hull

[stuck nymph]

Well if anyone has an extra or two and is willing to sell them let me know!

My understanding is also quite basic but it seems like a great way to learn, who knows might be useful later on

[candid scarab]

for some reason i wanted to make a custom design for the SAM a few days ago

[stuck nymph]

Yeah see my urges are different I typically want to smoke a cigarette and have to remind myself that I don’t smoke anymore, I don’t get urges to redesign boards lol

[candid scarab]

i dont mean the nard sam, i mean the sam itself

[lime hull]

Are you in the US?

[stuck nymph]

Yep AZ

[candid scarab]

partly because the 3d printed case i have is a bit too short for it, and partly because - hey i'm in arizona too!

[stuck nymph]

Beyond my realm of knowledge lol

[candid scarab]

- its fun

[stuck nymph]

Hell yeah enjoying the weather before it gets scalding hot?

[lime hull]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204533453585

Not my listing

But that should be what you want

[stuck nymph]

Oh damn thanks! Really appreciate it

[lime hull]

AZ doesn't get scalding hot.

At best it gets toasty.

[candid scarab]

yeah, can't wait for the snow on friday

[lime hull]

Flagstaff?

[stuck nymph]

The 120 degree weather begs to differ

[stuck nymph]

So not in Phoenix got it

[lime hull]

Try schlepping bags at Sky Harbor 🙂

[candid scarab]

prescott!

[lime hull]

OSHA found temps up to 150 inside the bins

That was actually oppressively hot, but I loved it.

[stuck nymph]

I used to work at sky harbor a few years ago actually!

[lime hull]

I was the only one who could load bags into a CRJ-900 without a beltloader, and still close the netting afterwards.

Who with? I was with Mesa, US Airways, and AWA.

You with a FBO?

[stuck nymph]

I worked with international operations

[lime hull]

Ah, nice.

I really do miss it. The bags never follow you home after work.

[stuck nymph]

Yeah it was nice but hated the hours I always got the “you don’t have kids go work at 3AM” calls

[candid scarab]

at embry-riddle, figured i'd mention due to the plane talk

[lime hull]

Our last flight at Mesa was like 10-11:30, depending on the day.

I'd occasionally have to do a push back for a maintenance guy or something, stage some carts.

Then I went home. There were never 2AM calls.

[stuck nymph]

Yeah most of my weeks I had at least one call for 3 AM

[lime hull]

Eww.

[stuck nymph]

I got to drive tugs around though which was fun tbh

We had those little Toyota tugs that were fast af

[lime hull]

Isn't it? 🙂

We had lambos.

[stuck nymph]

The beltloaders though those are fast as fuck

I saw one too many accidents with idiots flooring it thinking it was slow

[stuck nymph]

Oh so you’re like smart smart

[candid scarab]

am not

i'm not even studying anything to do with aviation

[stuck nymph]

What degree are you working in?

[candid scarab]

cybersecurity

if

being in this server wasn't enough of a hint

[stuck nymph]

I guess that makes sense

[lime hull]

That brings back flashbacks. Some gal mixed up brake and accelerator on one of ours. Bent the frame on a CR-9.

They had to ship the airframe by train since it wasn't airworthy. Royal screwup.

[stuck nymph]

Well I was a business major! I mean yeah my homework was basically making macaroni pictures but hey got my MBA and moved up at least

[stuck nymph]

That sounds like a very expensive mistake

[candid scarab]

i wish my homework was macaroni pictures

[stuck nymph]

You can make a macaroni picture of a flipper as your homework

[stuck nymph]

Did insurance cover that? Lol that’s a couple hundred grand at least feel bad for whoever did it lol

[lime hull]

It was millions.

I think something like 4 million on 24 million dollar plane, but that was years ago. I wasn't on the business side.

It was more one of those 'someone screwed up, don't let the next one be you' kinds of things.

Yes, the airline had insurance.

[stuck nymph]

Oh my I was going to say 4 mill on a 24 mill plane seems like a lot, how fast was she going on that beltloader

[candid scarab]

struggling to figure out what package this is

[stuck nymph]

Yeah I’m tapping out and leaving it to the pros, I’ll be here in the shadows let me know if you need me

[vernal cape]

I'll have a look tomorrow, in bed with the cat right now ^^
Fairly sure I saw something like it in kicad

[candid scarab]

oh i already mocked some bullcrap up

[vernal cape]

Ooh, nice!

[vernal cape]

Honestly.... If I can put it secondary footprints on my V2 board to either have the sam card, or solder the chip directly....

[vernal cape]

Looking nice

How's the pinout looking though from chip to card?

[candid scarab]

working on it,, i dont have a great multimeter

[vernal cape]

I believe there's a fap for that xD

[candid scarab]

thats what i'm talking about

[vernal cape]

XDDDDD

[lime hull]

It doesn't take much

[lime hull]

http://www.longtrump.com.tw/ezfiles/604/1604/img/5601/iclass-se-processor-ds-en_0.pdf

[lime hull]

The sam pinout is in that datasheet HID released.

[vernal cape]

Sweet, thanks!

[candid scarab]

hm

[lime hull]

That help?

[stuck nymph]

Yeah I remember we once had a close call with a DC-10 that UPS had nearly tipping back, we had them do brace poles in the back after that, we didn’t want to deal with the paperwork lol

[candid scarab]

slightly, i can't find any premade footprints but i could probably find a layout for that package and make one myself

[vernal cape]

http://smisioto.no-ip.org/elettronica/kicad/kicad-en.htm
This might have it

[candid scarab]

time: wasted

[vernal cape]

it's not wasted, it's put to a non-standard project!

plus now you have a sim card Footprint!

[vernal cape]

although now you can do one for the omnikey chip, since the iClas SE processor chip is apparently discontinued :/
https://www.hidglobal.com/products/sio-processor
https://www.hidglobal.com/products/secure-element

[vernal cape]

made my own footprint too

with the underside pad bridging to ground for the card PRSNT pin to work if you have a soldered on chip instead of a card tray

[true shadow]

Also in Az 😂

[true shadow]

Wouldn’t any used HID iclass se reader have a SAM inside it so it can read the HID cards?

[harsh igloo]

Yes, although the reader might be potted and make accessing that difficult.

[limber pelican]

Buying a SAM on the ID-1 carrier board while you can is definitely the easy option

[harsh igloo]

On top of eBay, I have six extra for when we get desperate

[true shadow]

Nice, I guess I should be always on a lookout for an old use SE reader

[lime hull]

That's hard mode.

Omnikeys are easier to extract

Bare PCB.

I did get some bulk readers for cheap, so I might send them to someone for extraction

[vernal cape]

god these HID datasheets are hot garbage. pin names? clip'em!

[vernal cape]

made a case for V2 board, because why not.
both open and close backs

light guides for the YRM leds

[stuck nymph]

I was just going to ask you that lol

About the lights

[vernal cape]

:p

[stuck nymph]

Looks great!

[vernal cape]

already done on the current case, I'm using pieces of SPIDF cable as light guides :p

[stuck nymph]

I’m excited for the board!

[vernal cape]

me too! order should get the OK from the top brass monday for V1 components,

[stuck nymph]

I think the lights are bright enough to shine through without but I’m pretty sure it would look great with the cables as pass through for the light

Let us know how that goes!

[vernal cape]

goes pretty well I think :p

way less bright in person, the blue is thrwing my camera off a lot

oh shit, I forgot I'll be using inserts for the nuts on the back of the case 🤦‍♀️

eh, I'll wait until they arrive so I can tet some instals with them, see how good of an idea it is

[meager echo]

ooh, neat!

[vernal cape]

thanks!

[stuck nymph]

It looks awesome

[vernal cape]

[true shadow]

Love the case maybe have an option with a slit on the left side so if you have a bigger uhf antenna it can just stick out of the case

Or have the part where antenna is open

[vernal cape]

yep, planned future case bottom

possibly with inserts for different size antennas

[true shadow]

Nice!

Got to have some cool logo or saying on that case 😂

I can also help design the case for a bigger version

[vernal cape]

I wish, but alas the only printer I have access to is FDM. not so great for tiny logos

[vernal cape]

already on it, just reopened SW :p

[true shadow]

Nice, I also only have the fdm

Is there official name of this board? like U-SAMy

[stuck nymph]

I like the name Todd

[true shadow]

lol!

[stuck nymph]

Or Theodore

[vernal cape]

not really? I just took the project name and added SAM at the end :p

[true shadow]

Digits' Digital Delights

[stuck nymph]

Teddy McBoardface

[vernal cape]

I guess we do have FlipperMeister on there xD

or...

flippgrMeister....

xDDDDD

[stuck nymph]

Yes my graphical master piece

[true shadow]

i always thought that was a g

[vernal cape]

yes :p

[stuck nymph]

It was supposed to be a backwards e but it works lol

[vernal cape]

It came out beautiful too

[stuck nymph]

I like that

It did come out quite nicely lol

[true shadow]

i love it

maybe have qr code go through a link shortner so you can track how many people scan it from the board and also you can update the link if the repo changes etc

[stuck nymph]

That sounds like a good idea to keep it up to date

And change it to a rickroll every third day of the month and don’t tell anyone

[vernal cape]

xD

[vernal cape]

hehehe

it's ridiculously big

[stuck nymph]

Perfect

[vernal cape]

12 cm wide. Thing is almost a standalone board, with the flipper as the addon xD

[stuck nymph]

Perfectly fits in my pocket

[vernal cape]

xD

[true shadow]

Just add backpack carrying straps to that one and we are good 😂

[vernal cape]

pretty much 🙃

[true shadow]

Also where did you get that sick ruler

[vernal cape]

Adafruit!

PCBway has very similar ones, but with colors!

[vernal cape]

aaaand I'm stuck.

dunno the thickness of the other modules, so I can't make the outer casing for the huge antenna edition

[stuck nymph]

I was about to type something but realized it’s not that type of server lol

[vernal cape]

I mean, I've seen weird shit in random :p

[stuck nymph]

As soon as you typed im stuck I was going to type step bro coming to the rescue

[vernal cape]

xDDD

[stuck nymph]

But I don’t know the thickness either so any other stepbros here know?

[vernal cape]

stepbros.... thickness....
yeah this is really going sideways xD

[stuck nymph]

Let’s try not to bring up girth and casting of any sort and we are good

[vernal cape]

welp, casting we're good. case is gonna be 3D printed
girth should be good too

got close there for a sec

[stuck nymph]

It’s about walking the line and not crossing it

[vernal cape]

yup

[vernal cape]

anyone know if there's a comparison list of the available UHF RFID chips out there? like alien H3, impinj, etc.. ?
edit: Gurusteve over on iceman's provided this link: https://www.dipolerfid.com/rfid-blog/types-of-rfid-chips

[vernal cape]

uh.... I'm just reading some tags, looking at the TID prefix to see what tags I have.... WTF is this ?!

rewritable TID?

[true shadow]

i don't think so, I have rewritable TID tag and it shows up as a normal Alien tag (until i changed it) i use this list to map the prefixes https://www.dipolerfid.com/rfid-blog/types-of-rfid-chips

[vernal cape]

me too ^^;
I cpied that list into excell to make it a bit more.... complete and far-reaching. if work is chill tomorrow I'll be downloading as many datasheets as I can to put as many ICs on it as I can

[true shadow]

sick!!

nxp website has additional mapping of their TIDs to products that they carry

if you don't have that i can send you a link

[vernal cape]

got quite a few tags that aren't mentioned on that list, sadly they're right off retail products so I don't know what tag they actually are to link the TID prefix to the IC name.
Also have an H3 tag (aliexpress listing...) that doesn't match the TID prefix from the list? E200 3412 is what the list says for H3, E200 0019 is what mine says...

[vernal cape]

oooh, yes please!

it was next on my todo list, with EM microelectronics last

EM has some funky dual-frequency-single-IC tags

[true shadow]

never seen those in real life yet

I'll see if i can dig it up when i get home

[vernal cape]

https://www.emmicroelectronic.com/zh-hans/node/409

[upbeat kettle]

scrap the final "e" and I'm down!

[eager moss]

is that from the SDK?

[vernal cape]

Yep, only tag I have that does that, and only one that's card shaped, but not a size standard I know. Halfway between passport and bankcard

[eager moss]

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't that the epc bank

[vernal cape]

First 8 digits are part of the TID, if I understand correctly

Or I'm completely mistaken and was looking at the wrong thing the whole time and the fact that those 8 first digits matched up with known TIP prefixes on a few of my tags is pure luck.

[eager moss]

to look at your tid

you'd have to go to select the tag

and then read the tid bank with a special command which the sdk has

@vernal cape

[eager moss]

thats how you read the other banks

that way you can double confirm without the TID prefix

[vernal cape]

Goddamnit, guess who left every single fucking UHF tags at home

[vernal cape]

Thanks for the infographic, I'll try it out tonight

[eager moss]

i gotta refractor my uart code for the new framework😅

[vernal cape]

I'm getting "disabe truncation" on step 4 and "memory overrun" on step 5's [READ] with TID selected from MemBank. I'm in way over my head this is not my area 😅

oop, and "failed to read tag memory" at step 5 on some tags

[eager moss]

if you look at the command frame pdf
https://github.com/frux-c/uhf_rfid/blob/master/assets/res/MagicRF_M100%26QM100_Firmware_manual_en.pdf
on the select command theres a truncate byte, compare it to what you're sending when you click on set select button

[vernal cape]

huh, getting this

BB 00 0C 00 13 01 00 00 00 00 60 00 E2 00 00 19 62 12 02 75 20 10 F4 91 1B 7E [set select output]
++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ -- ++ ++ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- [ ++ same   -- different]```
truncate byte is the same as in the example

[vernal cape]

would I have to change that byte to something else? I don't see anything else in the doc when I look for truncate

[eager moss]

try 0x01

and you're getting memory overrun because you're trying to read more bytes than the space it has on the bank

[vernal cape]

0x01 returns invalid command

[eager moss]

try decreasing it, the counter is in hex 0x08

[eager moss]

oh its because you have to recalculate the checksum

uint8_t checksum(const uint8_t* data, size_t length) {
    // CheckSum8 Modulo 256
    // Sum of Bytes % 256
    uint64_t sum_val = 0x00;
    for(size_t i = 0; i < length; i++) {
        sum_val += data[i];
    }
    return (uint8_t)(sum_val % 0x100);
}

the checksum is calculated by taking the second byte all the way till the end byte before where the checksum would go

BB 00 0C 00 13 00 00 00 00 20 60 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 A0 7E [command frame]
-- 00 0C 00 13 00 00 00 00 20 60 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 _ _ - [values that go in the checksum]

[vernal cape]

IT WORKS!

(used this to calculate checksum https://www.scadacore.com/tools/programming-calculators/online-checksum-calculator/)

and guess what, my first four bytes of EPC don't match with my first four bytes of TID 🙃 🥁 🥁 📀

at all

but hey, now at least what I'm getting matches up with known TIDs in my excell sheet!

thanks for the help Frux!

huh, I guess I did get lucky at least once...

same first four bytes of EPC and TID

[vernal cape]

I wanted to make a nice infographic like you did for the entire process tonight....
I got sidetracked.

[eager moss]

nicee

[vernal cape]

made a little tutorial to determine IC type. feedback greatly appreciated!

[vernal cape]

did you manage to find that NXP list? or were you talking about the dual frequency ICs?

[vernal cape]

well alright! parts order should be sent to Mouser tomorrow!

https://tenor.com/sESr.gif

but I got a very big nope on the crimping plier for picoblade

so I have to buy that myself.

yes to the contacts, connectors, housings, but no on the one tool it needs. Our dean is a fucking idiot it's insane

[eager moss]

are u in school?

[lime hull]

I generally use the Engineer tools to do those

They work, but aren't the best

They also aren't over $500 for a single set of tools

[vernal cape]

Yes and no, I work at a university as an electronics tech, helping out with projects and the likes.

[vernal cape]

Yeah, all they had when I arrived last year to take over the job was a one of those crimp all electronics pliers. Still looking for the contacts it actually does crimp properly xD

[vernal cape]

Crimping pliers are the type of tool where you can't necessarily do without, and once you actually get one, you understand why you need it. But yeah they're horribly expensive

[true shadow]

…Yeah so my bookmarked nxp link is now a 404. Pretty annoyed about that. I’ll try to see if I can find it again

[vernal cape]

Ah crap

[vernal cape]

do you still have the bookmark? maybe wayback machine has something?

[vernal cape]

https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/NXP-Semiconductors/MF4SAM3HN-9BA659Z?qs=9vOqFld9vZXkDAzvsfh3Yg%3D%3D so apparently NXP make SAMs as well for mifare, Ntag DNA, iCode DNA, Ucode DNA etc.

and it's available-ish on mouser?!

[limber pelican]

Blank SAMs without keys aren't very interesting though

[vernal cape]

aaaaah, they're blank. that makes sense

I guess there's a way to put keys on it though, right?

[limber pelican]

Sure, but at that point if the keys are known you could just put them in your code too

[vernal cape]

ah, yeah xD

oh, so that why seader repo straight up tells you to buy a finished product and rip the sam out of it as an option? because it has unknown keys in it?

[limber pelican]

Yeah, the keys in the HID SAM that Seader uses aren't publicly known

[vernal cape]

Gotcha, it's all clicking into place in my brain

[lime hull]

HID is a bit different from the other companies

NXP SAMs exist to put your keys in them. They protect your keys from other people.

HID SAMs exist to protect HIDs keys from you.

[limber pelican]

To be fair you can load custom keys in HID SAMs too, but that is a lot rarer

NXP is an chip OEM though, I'm sure vendors use NXP SAMs like HID use Infineon SAM chips

There may be some system that uses NXP SAMs that could be interesting to extract them out

[lime hull]

Not much point when they don't give you the KDF.

[limber pelican]

True, I was just more meaningful it's not just HID keys being protected from customers at that point

Definitely isn't just a general purpose device you can whack in any other system at that point

[vernal cape]

does KDF stand for key derivation function?

[limber pelican]

Yes

[vernal cape]

https://github.com/Didgitalpunk/UHF-tag-and-IC-database
@eager moss for the IC identification :p

[eager moss]

i have saved a pdf of that page

[vernal cape]

oooh, I wouldn't mind seeing that

[eager moss]

im not on my computer atm

but ill send you a screenshot

[vernal cape]

no worries, it can wait ^^

[vernal cape]

oh wait, that I already have, it's from https://www.dipolerfid.com/rfid-blog/types-of-rfid-chips

I think @true shadow was talking about a link made by NXP for their own tags

[vernal cape]

and their TID prefix for Ucode7 is wrong in that list

[eager moss]

im also trying to decided best way to implement this

do i want to read it from a file

or hard code it

[vernal cape]

I'd say file. lists change and get patched with new additions

and new data that was missing before, like for the Alien series, most TID prefixes are missing, and some tags straight up have 0 info (H10)

some stuff you probably wil hage to hard-code, like for Impinj R6-A and R6-B, they share the same TID prefix, they get differenciated by "wafer mask revision value on Bits 30h-32h. Monza R6-A has a wafer mask revision value of 0002 while Monza R6-B has a wafer mask revision value of 0012."

M830 and 850 also share TID prefixes, but the datasheet didn't specify how to differenciate the two (unless I missed that part)

[true shadow]

I was, they had a page where they compared their own tags to each other

[vernal cape]

Finished adding what I could find / understand for EM microchip.
They don't have a lot of products but holy crap do they have fun stuff. Shared HF/NFC-UHF tag, tags with tamper alarms, output pins for LEDs /sensors / uC connections over i2C, their shit looks like a bag of fun if I'm honest.

[eager moss]

you should contact them as a “customer”, it never hurts to ask for samples

[vernal cape]

started work on the tags, added Alien's to start with, Impinj is nigh impossible to do since they apparently don't make their own, but use 3rd party manufacturers (Murata for super small ceramic antenna-on-IC products, etc.)
if I have time at work tomorrow, I'll start working on Checkpoint Systems' tags

[meager echo]

Any news on when they're available?

[vernal cape]

soon™️

the mouser parts order went out on the 9th, so I'm guestimating around a week and a half/ two weeks for it to get there, and maybe another for assembly and we'll be good!
I'm thinking of opening a Tindie store to sell my stuff, but I'm still figuring out shipping. got a good lead that shouldn't be insanely expensive for outside europe, but we'll see.

TL:DR, we're getting there!

[meager echo]

Got my canarchy via tindie, worked well.

[willow basin]

hello everyone

[vernal cape]

Heyo!

[vernal cape]

https://github.com/Didgitalpunk/UHF-tag-and-IC-database Added a search page to the database to look up IC types by entering the TID prefix

[vernal cape]

I have started looking at opening a Tindie store, looking at packaging and shipping.

[stuck nymph]

Great! Sounds awesome!

Let me know how we can help

[vernal cape]

Not much to be done really. I think I figured out my packaging already, and postal fees. Tbh it's pretty much ready, just need to go forth with it.

Also, shipping shouldn't be three arms and several thousand legs for Australia :p

Like, 15usd for international shipping

(looking at you @limber pelican ^^)

[wicked wigeon]

That include the US?

[eager moss]

whats a good ui @true shadow , I'm having some issues fitting all this info on one small screen, i'm thinking sliders like the info window

[vernal cape]

Yup!

[eager moss]

@vernal cape as much as I'd like to go thru every single pdf and find the infos, can we make an excel spreadsheet and update it so i can make csv out of it

[vernal cape]

Of course, it's already in progress!

[eager moss]

oh i see it

in the front

[vernal cape]

I can simplify it and commit a CSV file with just TID prefix and name though if you want?

[eager moss]

yea, if you could add a new sheet in the exisiting file with the simplified columns

or i can make a python parser for it

im improving the uart right now before I change the UI

[vernal cape]

I'll add it after dinner, no worries.
How should I mark reused TID prefixes though?

[eager moss]

i would just have duplicates its fine

we can sacrifice space

[vernal cape]

Some iCs correspond to multiple TIDp and some TIDp correspond to multiple iCs

I can make a third column with just 1s and zeros to mark those

[eager moss]

hmm, we could do database normalization but this isn't really a real schema for the flipper

[vernal cape]

Yeah

[eager moss]

I wonder if a producer/consumer idea would work on the flipper instead of an array buffer

[vernal cape]

I guess we can just mark those when they pop up, like [Monza R6-A / R6-B]

Although that's a bad example since there is a way to differentiate those two, it's in the Excell

But yeah

[vernal cape]

alright, so, how's this sound: four collumns - Brand, IC name, EPC bits, and TID prefix.

EPC bits can be used to differentiate between Monza 830 and 850, the first has 128 and the second 96

there we go, it's up @eager moss

[vernal cape]

aw fuck.

I started reading the GS1 datasheet you have on your repo. then I looked up "TAG MDID", thinking, hey, that might quicken my search for tag manufacturers!.
big mistake. https://www.gs1.org/epcglobal/standards/mdid

I think I might need to make a new CSV file splitting the TID prefix a bit more...

ph, they also have a .JSON file available with the TAG MDID list on it!

......

AND tag model numbers......

fruuuuuuuuuuuux

https://www.gs1.org/docs/epc/mdid_list.json

@eager moss I think you'll want to see this....

so, E2(h) + [TAG MDID] + [TMN] = TID prefix. also actually properly called Short TID.

[true shadow]

For UI, we can have a summary screen that shows key info like:

• Card Manufacturer
• EPC
• TID
  Followed by a More tab in the corner where it shows additional banks

This will be consistent with other NFC cards

Say if you look at saved Desfire nfc card, first you have actions you can do (like rename, delete, info etc)

clicking info shows a quick summary. In our case it would follow same format but in stead of UID it would show EPC followed by TID, we can even add CRC, PC stuff there

and more would take you to tabs where you can see other crap like user banks etc

So pressing card info would result in just list of items like this:

anyway.. i think you get the idea 🙂

most of the cards have user banks not used so i think those are safe to put under more info.

the card details like memory size, features it supports can also go under card info

[vernal cape]

<@&932724996210573333>, can someone pin this for me please?

[next kelp]

done

[vernal cape]

Thanks Axum!

[stark bay]

Shoot did you not know that was a thing, sorry I wasn’t paying enough attention to mention it

[vernal cape]

worth noting this dataset doesn't include all the tags in mine...

[vernal cape]

no worries ^^

[stark bay]

Neat you have more

[vernal cape]

in some places yes, I'm guessing very new products like monza 830/850

770 775 too

but yeah, I felt super dumb not imagining that the people making the damn standard would have all that info somewhere

xD

[limber pelican]

Nice

[vernal cape]

ok what the hell, I'm finding the same mistakes I found in the GS1 dataset and the Dipolerfid.com dataset .....

Ucode 7m's tag model number, 810 on both. datasheet, says 890.

oh god damn. datasheet gives you the TMN as 1 0001 0010000, so 890, with the second chunk as "Sub Version Number". set that to 0000 and you get 🥁
810 !

adding both.

[vernal cape]

done.
https://github.com/Didgitalpunk/UHF-tag-and-IC-database/blob/main/Digits'_mdid_list.json

@eager moss that should help a lot with the chip IDing process

[eager moss]

indeed, thank you

[vernal cape]

no worries, I'm glad I could help!
plus that file's pretty well set-up to add more details if need be, like say a "usecase" field for, well, usecases 🙂

and it's easy to just add more ICs if you have the TMN and ic name!

[vernal cape]

@main stratus ask here 🙂

[vernal cape]

Sooo... PCBway no likey... Sent them those pics, we'll see what they say/suggest

They suggest nothing at all, just make them half holes and align the board edge. Booooo

[upbeat kettle]

JLCPCB?

[vernal cape]

pcbway

but it'll be the same from anyone i think, it's a weird operation to do with very small endmills

iirc those two corner holes are .3, so the endmill vould be .3mm in diameter

very too small

[upbeat kettle]

yeah I meant have you tried Jlcpcb. Could be the same but might as well

[vernal cape]

ah, yeah, nah I haven't tried them but I'm so used to PCBway and I have a discount with them

[vernal cape]

see? this is why you do test runs.

nobody wants melty sim slots

nobody

[harsh igloo]

ewww

[vernal cape]

good thing I had extra boards and components ||LIES||

[fiery idol]

Hi all! Just spent some time catching up and pretty much everything is way over my head, but I'm very curious and would like to raise my hand for ordering one of these if there's anticipated availability! Really admire the work done in here!

[vernal cape]

out of those five, 1 is good, one is acceptible, and 2 just need a new sim slot. one's fucked though, used it to see if my solder had actualy reflowed. it did and I ripped up four pads.

[eager moss]

im so confused, how’d they melt? were you soldering them on with a hot plate?

[vernal cape]

thanks for the interest! no anticipated availability, I'll have them up on my tindie when they're available, and I will make sure to serve those working on the project first

[vernal cape]

reflow oven!

the kind with hot IR quartz lamps

and they were off to the side right under the lamps and they did not enjoy that, and I also had my reflow time set waaaaaay too long

[vernal cape]

and I'll post a link here once the shop is up

[eager moss]

gotcha, would heat tape work? considering its a directional flow

[vernal cape]

Possibly, but I don't have any, and the contacts are under the slot

I just need to set my preheat temp high enough so reflow can be very short (10s)

That way my board just needs a tiny nudge in temp and my connectors don't have time to melt

[eager moss]

good luck. like to see how it turns out

[vernal cape]

Le Oven

Way better settings. No melty plastic, very melty solder

Now I just need to use the brainpower to make a jig to hold my board for the second pasting...

I absolutely overlooked that part tbh...

Thought of the heat sensitive glue to hold down one side while the other gets reflowed though

[eager moss]

lol. you could try stacking some scrap pcb under it

[vernal cape]

Yep

Although, we do have a laser cutter, I can make me a nice tabletop with a hole in it for that sim tray to drop in!

[eager moss]

could work too. just would be extra work

[vernal cape]

eh, it's a tool, I'm sure I'll reuse it at one point!

just tested two of those melty ones with a sim card, it actually still fits in the slot ok....

might give those a steep discount if I don't rework the sim slot

[vernal cape]

update: We have bodges, people.

[vernal cape]

I separated my 5V from my ground successfully, turns out that one fucked board was very useful in figuring out my cuts

[vernal cape]

Gentlefolks, we seem to have a working unit

Now I just need to wait for @lime hull 's care package to get here to test the SAM part!

[lime hull]

Thanks for the reminder. I'll see about getting that out today.

[vernal cape]

^^

[vernal cape]

I have assembled... 3 so far. in an entire day.

took a long time to set everything up, get all my parts tapes set up right and labeled so I know what's what

and reflow take a bit of time

and I can do two boards at once at most

also, so much fixing to do.

flipper header holes? wrong diameter. gotta drill them out with a slightly bigger bit.

noob mistake, which I already had made for an arduino mega shield. that was a painful half week inserting headers with a vise

at least now my mistakes are all fixed 🙃

[meager echo]

Thanks for the amazing work!

[stuck nymph]

It looks amazing! Nearly there!

[wicked wigeon]

I can't wait, these are cool

[main stratus]

Hey, I'm a new Flipper user. I wanted to ask you these few question regarding UHF, what extensions that I could possibly purchase to read and write a UHF and also do I need add some software to the flipper? Thanks alot!!

[vernal cape]

Check out the repo in the pins, that's Frux's work developing the app for us, he's got an AliExpress listing linked in there for some easy to use modules. There's also the UHF module from M5stack, but full disclaimer, it's an AliExpress module in a suit. And to make it look nice you can buy my board when it comes out! ^^

Knowledge-wise, read datasheets. Impinj make very good ones. Also read the GS1 UHF RFID standard, it explains everything, and most importantly, how the data is structured.

[main stratus]

Alright Thanks!!

[vernal cape]

Go and search TID in the GS1 datasheet to see how it's structured, and what short TID, XTID, MDID, TMN mean. That should get you started off well 🙂

[vernal cape]

turns out the three boards I partialy did yesterday.... I didn't complete the bodge. at least it's only 1 component that I need to remove to do that

[vernal cape]

Uh.... I think I found a way to test my boards without a SAM card 🤔

That's the error message it gives ya if you try and run Seader with a SIM card xD

Which is different from just an empty slot!

I'll still try them all out with a real SAM when they get here, but that let me at least verify thaty solder job ain't bad

[limber pelican]

Nice, yeah that should do a pretty decent job of testing the hardware

[vernal cape]

Boards are finally all assembled!
Next comes testing, rework if need be, and then Tindie!

@eager moss, if you want to update the repo with these photos 🙂

[eager moss]

fancy

[stuck nymph]

It looks awesome

[true shadow]

So sweet!

[brazen gale]

looks so goooood

[vernal cape]

step 1 OK!

Two needed some rework on the card slot, I think those might have been in the first solder batch...
But other than that, 13/15 boards is a good score for a first time doing super small stuff like this!

[vernal cape]

All boards work with UHF!

[limber pelican]

Awesome work

[brazen gale]

nice

[vernal cape]

Updating the MDID list, added Fudan-microelectronics, Kiloway, working on Quanray. No TMN though for the first two, they have no proper datasheets.

[vernal cape]

wow. quanray is fucking shit. their datasheets are shit, their website product pages are shit. in one page, they talk of three different products. Qstar 5R page, Qstar-5X data, and Qstar-5A datasheet. fucking yikes

[wicked wigeon]

Bon travail! They look great

[candid scarab]

i have been not following the progress of this

anyways

https://tenor.com/view/credit-card-smacking-credit-card-on-table-gif-21340324

[vernal cape]

At this rate I might need to make a second batch... O.O

[vernal cape]

just a quick poll, what module do you intend on using this with?
1 - YRM1001
2 - YRM1002
3 - YRM1003
4 - YRM1004
5 - YRM1005
6 - YRM1006
7 - M5 Stack uhf module
8 - other

[stuck nymph]

I have an 01 and 02 so either of those

[limber pelican]

What's the easiest way to tell? Mine says JRD-100

[stuck nymph]

what dbi antenna do you have?

[limber pelican]

That's a great question

[stuck nymph]

I just looked yours up on aliexpress and by roughly eyeballing it it seems to be about the size of #2 on the list

[limber pelican]

3 dBi according to the AliExpress listing

[stuck nymph]

yep same size as #2 on the list

[limber pelican]

Just a hair under 50x50mm on the outer pcb

[stuck nymph]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805110198094.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.97.23881802YhtmxA&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

these are the ones most of us have they have measurements and model number in the picture that could help out a bit better

and I just realized that I dont have the 02 i have an 01 and an 03 still the 02 apparently i fucking lost it

someone needs to take aliexpress away from me man i swear

I went in to lookup your module and bought a hackrf

[stark bay]

my uhf module was working previously wired up to a proto board however with up to date firmware when I plug it in the flipper seems to crash. I got the app compiled with https://github.com/frux-c/uhf_rfid/tree/uart_refractor branch but not sure if something else needs to change?

hum, less issues when I turn off expansion modules > listen uart and guessing just the branch isnt fully ready.

[meager echo]

That's already 15 replies, so atleast 15 takers

[vernal cape]

nah, I voted once on all those to get the reactions set up ^^

but yeah, still, 8 replies 🤩

[meager echo]

I voted 2 as I'll probably get the most common one, but I still have to pick.

[vernal cape]

also some folks voted twice but I'm fairly sure they won't get 2 boards at once

[stuck nymph]

I was just gonna say that

I voted since I have a couple different sizes but most likely will get one board and give some space for everyone else to get one as well

[vernal cape]

YRM1001 is the size the board was destined to take, and YRM1003 is the next size up, which the board has mounting holes for 🙂

[meager echo]

I'll get the YRM1001 then.

[vernal cape]

they did a dick move with the sizes, they actually go 1001, 1003, 1002, 1004, 5, 6

[stuck nymph]

Yeah someone messed up with the numbering lol

[vernal cape]

also, inside the M5Stack module... is just a yrm1003 :p

[stuck nymph]

But way more expensive

[vernal cape]

yep

and with that shitty grove connector to top it off

BUT

with lego peg-compatible mounting holes :p

also YANPODO on aliexpress has the M5 stack module as well as bigger sizes in similar packaging

[vernal cape]

Here's how it looks-ish with the YRM 1003 module, back and front mount

[meager echo]

yeah, I don't think I need it that big, don't need much range anyway.

[brazen gale]

cant wait to buy one of these

[vernal cape]

For sure, so keep in mind that read range is dependant on the YRM module AND the tag's own antenna. And when you get down to tiny little shits like these 😂

Header for reference :p

And reference, for.... reference...

[stuck nymph]

I think it looks cleaner with the 01 on it to be honest it just fits

Have you figured out what to do with the rest of the long ass cable it comes with? Or are you cutting it and just crimping a new connector to make it shorter?

[vernal cape]

Plan was to make a brand new short cable to go with each order, unfortunately my idiot N+2 denied that request. ( it was gonna be used for work anyways, but oh welp. Guess I just won't be able to do some of the stuff I need to do!)

[stuck nymph]

Lol that sucks

[vernal cape]

Yup 😦

[stuck nymph]

Tell them to approve it, that some random guy on discord said so

[vernal cape]

I might have a backup plan, but if it works out it'll still most likely be too late.

[stuck nymph]

Damn that sucks

I mean I guess I can cut it and just solder it shorter but having a shorty cable would be nice

[vernal cape]

Hopefully it'll be done for V2 🤷‍♀️

[stuck nymph]

I guess I’ll have to buy two then

[vernal cape]

I'll add an extra if I get repeat buyers from V1 boards for sure

[stuck nymph]

That sounds like a great deal

[vernal cape]

I also plan on offering longer cables for folks who want to use bigger modules.

[meager echo]

ah, so you can read smaller tags with a bigger antenna.. hmm,

[vernal cape]

Yup!

I will say though, tags that small are the exception out there

[meager echo]

Yeah, the main ones I've seen are fairly big and meant to work at like a meter distance.

[vernal cape]

Yep

[limber pelican]

How's weight on the pins? I'm wondering if non angled headers out the back of it might have less strain 😅

Otherwise could design a case which could support some of the load

[vernal cape]

with the YRM1001, tbh it's not that bad!

[vernal cape]

after seeing what they did with the VGM, it's very tempting! but I've barely seen what horors the people from the clear case project have gone through and I want none of that xD

I already have a case designed, but it's just for the module's protection

[stuck nymph]

quick question, what FW is everyone running?

[limber pelican]

Official, which is the only firmware that can be discussed on this server

Also not sure how it's relevant to this chat

[stuck nymph]

Was gonna ask a question with the app but ill just ask in another server thanks

[stark bay]

You can discuss apps here, I can’t get the uhf reader to work since the refactor.

[vernal cape]

Official as well, jumping back and forth between current release and 94.1 for UHF

[true shadow]

Is there official waiting list somewhere for the first batch or you going to launch a website of sorts?

[wicked wigeon]

Hunger games battle for the first drop;
may the odds always be in your favor

[true shadow]

... what kind of weapons can we expect to find

[vernal cape]

indeed. 13 packages, one of them has just a picture of the module. fight.

[vernal cape]

on a more serious note, I made a Tindie and it'll be on there when it drops 🙂

and I'll share the link here of course

[vernal cape]

actually since so many people kept asking if a list existed, I made one. mostly to make sure I actually have enough boards

hoping I didn't miss anyonw wanting to buy a board (If I did reply to this), we have 11 21 buyers
@true shadow
@fiery idol
@meager echo
@upbeat kettle
@stuck nymph
@candid scarab
@lone turtle
@eager moss
@obsidian oak
@limber pelican
@mint egret
@wicked wigeon
@next kelp
@stark bay
@harsh igloo
@quaint pulsar
@silent trench
@nova silo
@half quest
@main stratus
@distant flare

@wicked wigeon, can't remember if you wanted one, @next kelp as well

[wicked wigeon]

I was about to say, yes I do, if there are any left

bettse may also want one first

[vernal cape]

added you to the list

[vernal cape]

@harsh igloo indeed, you interested in one?

@stark bay as well

[limber pelican]

@lime hull would almost certainly be interested too I imagine

[next kelp]

I am down for one

[vernal cape]

roger that, added you to the list

[stark bay]

Yes I would like one

[vernal cape]

added to the list as well!

[harsh igloo]

yup

[vernal cape]

added to the list too!

[lime hull]

@vernal cape did the SAM arrive?

[vernal cape]

Not yet

It still in California last I checked

Ready to leave the US, apparently

[quaint pulsar]

Are there any boards left or the list is closed ? I would like to buy one.

[silent trench]

Ditto!

[mint egret]

Sounds like a tindie page will get created and dropped here

[vernal cape]

Added to the list!
It's not closed at all, it's just a list for me to gauge how many I'll sell / if I need to make another run right away. Which by the looks of it, will need to happen sooner rather than later ^^;

[vernal cape]

Added to the list!

[nova silo]

I’ll wait for the tindie but amazing work

[vernal cape]

Added to the list!

[half quest]

Hey @vernal cape I'm interested in the board as well if you've got anymore? Thanks!

[vernal cape]

Added to the list!

[vernal cape]

At this point the list exceeda the amount of boards I have, but I'll make another run soon

[half quest]

No worries at all, thank you so much

[stuck nymph]

Im excited for it!

[vernal cape]

Me too ^^

[vernal cape]

tiny update on this. I have jerry rigged my board with this in mind, but no go, LED doesn't light up. I'll test again when I have the SAMs to see if that changes something, and if it still doesn't I'll have to look at trying to enable that pin or even seeing if it actually does anything electrically, it feels weird to have it biased at 3.3 when not in use, and have the pin act as a sink for the LED... also the suggested 330R LED resistor from the datasheet seems... off. 330R at 3.3V with ~2Vf gives about 3.5mA, that's very low for any LED.
also, I might have fried my SEC chip's USB side by wiring the USB power backwards... noob

[half quest]

Meanwhile im over here just trying to figure out how to plug it into my board with some breadboard jumper cables I bought off Amazon

[main stratus]

Hey @vernal cape I'm really interested in the UHF board, please add me to the list! Thank you!

[half quest]

Would anyone be able to help me figure out if I'm plugging everything in correctly to my flipper? I've got the YRM1001 here and just trying to get it working with GPIO. Thought I had everything layed out correctly after viewing the github m5 schematics and what not but it doesn't appear to be recognizing my YRM

[limber pelican]

Check continuity, some breadboards suck

[stark bay]

When we did the nard I don’t think we could get usb to work. There seem to be things that are poorly documented with that chip.

[vernal cape]

Yeah, I remember having that discution with you a few months back. The documentation really is very light on details in some parts...

Heck, even just getting the OTP programming software was a pain.

[vernal cape]

Added to the list!

[half quest]

Do you recommend any in specific if you’ve tried?

[limber pelican]

sadly not

[half quest]

I’m only using breadboard cables to try and get it to work though. Not even a breadboard itself

[limber pelican]

Oh the jumpers are usually fine, just the breadboards I've found can be iffie

[half quest]

Ok good to know, now just to figure out what will get it recognized. I seem to get power no problem but I need the flipper to recognize the YRM

[vernal cape]

Did you wire the enable pin?

@half quest

Also, what module are you using? Give us a picture

[half quest]

@vernal cape

Don’t have it plugged into flipper at the moment. Just kinda how I left it and went to bed last night after work

[vernal cape]

Alrighty, first off, good, you're not using the stupid header on the side. It's absolutely not the same.pina as the connector as we found out post board making.
The enable pin you can forget, it does nothing because it's unconnected on the yrm1001. Dunno about other module sizes, but I suspect it isn't either.
If you get lights then your power is set up correctly, ( GND to GND , 5v to 5v).
If your module doesn't connect automatically upon app launch, that's a known issue I think, just spam retry and it should work at one point. If it still doesn't work try and flip the Tx and Rx pins

[stark bay]

The chips we got were already OTP programmed.

[vernal cape]

Ah, maybe that's why we don't get LED? They program it without and you need to ask for a special batch that's either unprogrammed or programmed with LED?

[stark bay]

Yep

[vernal cape]

Seems weird to do that though, especially when you can just no populate the LED to not have blinkenlights...

[half quest]

Which one is the enable pin on the flipper? @vernal cape

[stark bay]

#1136167977708957737 message guess I could have elaborated here

[vernal cape]

Nonono, enable pin on the module

[vernal cape]

Eh it's fine. I'll still try it, who knows,maybe you got the random end of someone's preprogrammed batch or something during testing

[stark bay]

Unlikely, been the same over multiple orders from different distributors.

[vernal cape]

Damn

Well, looks like you're likely to get that LED to a flipper pin after all then!
Or just no LED at all, after all there's an led on the flipper

[half quest]

So @vernal cape this is where I’m at with it. Tried pressing retry a bunch of times like you said and didn’t seem to do much. I swapped the tx and rx but that just crashed the flipper

[vernal cape]

Try again post-crash, the 94.1 release is veeeeeery fucky.

[half quest]

Just keeps crashing haha

[quaint pulsar]

I'm also trying that. Was able to connect and scan tag but only once

[vernal cape]

Hmm....

Get back to an up to date release and try going into GPIO, USB- UART bridge, set the baud rate at 115200 and try running the YRM demo software

it's here https://od.lk/f/NDFfNTQ1NjI1OTZf

That should at least tell you if your module works

And if you got it wired correctly

[half quest]

What firmware are we using?

[quaint pulsar]

Module works. Just tested with PC over USB

XFW latest dev version

[vernal cape]

For testing with UART bridge, get back to the latest official

That way you avoid the random crashes of 94.1

[half quest]

Im gonna hop on the PC and try this now.

[half quest]

Question about the demo software you linked. Does that need to be dragged onto the flippers files somewhere? @vernal cape

[vernal cape]

No, there's a .exe file in there somewhere, called DEMO or something iirc, run that on your PC with your flipper connected via USB acting as the usb-uart link

[half quest]

So i went with this one

How exactly do I tell if its good or not with this open now?

[vernal cape]

Look on the top right, there should be a thing that says connection or port, with a drop-down menu

Select the com port which tour flipper is connected to. if you don't know which is which, just try them all one after the other

I'm in the bus omw back home so this is all from memory, might get some deets wrong

[half quest]

its all good

can only assume this is no good @vernal cape

[quaint pulsar]

You need to open UART Bridge on Flipper

[half quest]

That's open as well

[vernal cape]

Hmm...

Try flipping tx and Rx?

[half quest]

This is looking correct, yeah?

[vernal cape]

Yup

[vernal cape]

No luck?

[half quest]

Doesnt seem like it

[quaint pulsar]

In my case it's very stange. When Flipper is connect to PC (without Demo app). UHF app on fliper detects module without problem. After disconecting USB fails to detect. still on XFW

[vernal cape]

That's probably a power thing, when connected to USB, the flipper turns on 5v out by default.

[half quest]

I dont need to change the USB channel within the configuration of UART do i?

[vernal cape]

You shouldn't have to, no.

Do you only have one device in the drop-down menu on the demo software?

[quaint pulsar]

Yes. Just cheked. 5v was off. Now it works

[half quest]

Pretty sure it's COM3

[vernal cape]

Try disconnecting your flipper, whichever one goes away is it

[half quest]

Oh ive done that its for sure 3

[quaint pulsar]

you can check the port in qFlipper but need to close it before connecting

[vernal cape]

Then yeah, it's 3.

I think it'll have to wait till when I get home to help you out better, this feels funky

[half quest]

@vernal cape Fair enough, appreciate it regardless

Hey @quaint pulsar where did you get your cables from?

I see yours are a bit different from mine

[quaint pulsar]

I bought it from amazon https://www.amazon.pl/gp/product/B0BMDNQWF7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've also noticed that I'm getting the same error from DEMO app when UART Bridge is not enabled while connecting

[vernal cape]

Damn, fucking spot on, Picoblade to DuPont clone!

[vernal cape]

Interesting...

[half quest]

thats in a whole other language haha

[quaint pulsar]

it is Picoblade 1.25 to Dupont 2,54

[vernal cape]

Maybe try this:
Connect the Tx/Rx to pins C1 and C0, and in the UART bridge menu make sure you select pins 15/16 as your UART pins, then try again with the software

Picoblade is the connector lineup name that's on the YRM module, DuPont is a brand name turned generic to designate breadboard compatible connectors

[half quest]

ok yeah so maybe not that different

just colorwise i suppose

[vernal cape]

Yep

[half quest]

hm

sad

new cable still nothing

wonder if im connecting these cables incorrectly

[quaint pulsar]

send pic of module and flipper

[half quest]

Updating firmware back to XFW just a second

[quaint pulsar]

That works in my case

[vernal cape]

Green you can leave out. It does nothing

[half quest]

this is what im doing @quaint pulsar @vernal cape

[quaint pulsar]

it seems wrong

[half quest]

my cables are also different colors then what you have remember

[quaint pulsar]

I'm comparing colors on the module end and on flipper.

[vernal cape]

agreed

[quaint pulsar]

Black is ok

[vernal cape]

yup

[quaint pulsar]

green goes to 14

[vernal cape]

red should go on GND

blue to 13 (my bad)

white you can leave unconnected

[half quest]

oh oops

moving blue

[vernal cape]

yep, sorry

[half quest]

that seemed to have crashed the app

oh its good now

[vernal cape]

there ya go 🙂

[half quest]

still no module found though

[vernal cape]

ah

spam retry?

[quaint pulsar]

turn 5v on in GPIO

[vernal cape]

also that

or relaunch the app

[half quest]

yep

it got shut off

for some reason

its working now

THANK YOU

[vernal cape]

yep, if it no longer detects enough drain on 5V it shuts it down entirely to conserve power

no worries ^^

so now the UART bridge should also work 🙂

[quaint pulsar]

No comes the real question. How to write a tag with the app. In case of PC app you need to follow some steps (picture in this thread) but how to use flipper app ?

[vernal cape]

I think for now it's not (completely?) implemented

tbh I haven't tried it

[quaint pulsar]

understood

[half quest]

Can you link to how to write with the app?

[quaint pulsar]

#1136167977708957737 message

[half quest]

@quaint pulsar @vernal cape I was able to write a tag via the flipper just now

[quaint pulsar]

Different than original one or read and write the same tag ?

[half quest]

So I went out to my car and read a UHF RFID sticker I have there because I live in a gated community @quaint pulsar

Was able to write it to a blank sticker I ordered alongside my YRM

[vernal cape]

nice, then that means it actually is implemented!

[half quest]

Now will this sticker I wrote to actually work? That's another question

Don't see why it wouldnt

[quaint pulsar]

I tried that with no luck but I don't have blanks All tags are pre-written. Able to write with pc app.

[half quest]

I wonder if I'm able to write to a tag that already has something written on it

Maybe I try it with the card they sent and this sticker I just wrote

[vernal cape]

just tried it with the app, sure enough it works. now when reading through the PC demo it only shows one EPC in the list, but counts by 2's since I have both the OG and the written tag in scanning range

[quaint pulsar]

So you just scan tag. Save it. And then open flipper app open saved file and select write ?

[vernal cape]

the vast majority of tags come pre-serialized, meaning the EPC is already all set up. very usefull if you just want to stick a tag to something and tell your inventory software (for example) "hey, take this random ass number and assign it to this exact product"

[half quest]

Yep

[vernal cape]

yup

[half quest]

I will say sometimes the app just freezes and i have to force reboot

but upon reboot it works most of the time

[vernal cape]

Read this. Search EPC and read all the bits that have it

TL:DR, EPC can be blank (all 0's) or preserialized-- either random or a set number that repeats across tags, say 1 2 3 and 4, for tag 1 2 3 and 4 respectively, but then repeats across the next 4 tags

so tag 5 will have EPC of 1, tag 6 EPC of 2, etc.