September Patch Changelog and Discussions

[lethal thunder]

So she needs a little tune down and

I mean if someone blocks it they should have decent chances of surviving

[tidal bluff]

Guranteed kill at 27 empowerment lol

[lethal thunder]

Fern is currently too survivable because people no longer use barrage

Playing to a high barrage snipe end game seems a bit too potent

[low flint]

I do

[tidal bluff]

In a fern v fern game, barrage is unviable

[lethal thunder]

Well it’s not specifically the mirror I worry about

But basically snipe shouldn’t be a guarantee kill through block unless Fern gets into absurd territory

Because as is she can get to that state even when the opponent is aggressively whittling her down

[topaz steppe]

Which is super interesting tbh. Meta evolving

[lethal thunder]

Yeah it’s really interesting

[lethal thunder]

So looking at the math currently for Snipe vs Barrage, Snipe and Barrage have negligible differences in total damage currently but Barrage costs more HP over time and pierces less

Like Barrage at 5 stacks at 10 empower deals 60 DMG over 5 turns

Snipe+10 with 5 stacks deals 44 DMG

So Barrage is 16 more total damage for the same stacks

But has only 25% pierce and costs Fern 24 HP vs 50% pierce and 8 HP

Snipe also does it all at once which is generally a positive (though it depends on circumstances)

Suggestion is to adjust Snipe to 10+2 or 9+2 or even 8+2 DMG

[low flint]

Or you buff Barrage

[lethal thunder]

Fern is already the highest WR character at the moment

You do not buff the best character in the meta for balance purposes

It’s also not a complete nerf to Snipe

It boosts its low barrage stack damage by quite a bit

In exchange for reducing its endgame damage

[topaz steppe]

Yeah I think that's fair

Why did we nerf Snipe before?

I mean

hmm

Cus wasn't that old Snipe's damage?

[lethal thunder]

Which values?

[lethal thunder]

Snipe was buffed because Fern became weaker due to the mana concealment change

But mana concealment got reverted

[topaz steppe]

Right

[lethal thunder]

She’s not grossly overpowered but she still is the winningest character and probably needs some slight nerf

Which I think is best done by weakening snipe a little

[opal sedge]

Goodbye Zoltraak nuke

[tidal bluff]

@topaz steppe when methode does hypnotic compulsion turn 1 can the opponent have the move of heal 10 (wait) or discard instead of do nothing?

considering it already reduces atk it makes it less annoying to face

[topaz steppe]

Yeah

I think that's fair

[lethal thunder]

Suggestion to Edel’s issue with multihitters

Make telekinesis reduce ATK by 2 for 3 turns and 1 permanently (3 ATK down for 3 turns in total) in exchange lower the number of discards it provides from 3 to 2

[opal sedge]

Will it scale by .2 per empower? I feel like 2 atk is less than a dent for the more notorious multihitters

[lethal thunder]

Well -3 ATK for 3 turns is a decent amount

I mean it could be -2/-2

[opal sedge]

Oh the permanent stacks on top

[lethal thunder]

Yeah

[opal sedge]

-3 is nice then I suppose

Aura and Denken can outdo that in a turn tho

But overadjust and Linie's fucked

[lethal thunder]

Well Aura is changing

And Denken is like two turns

More depending on empower of telekinesis

[opal sedge]

Most of the Aura reforms are in regard to AS

[lethal thunder]

She just needs more of a chance anyway against them

[lethal thunder]

Well summons going back to 1 means her stat gains get reduced back to 2 per summon spell

[opal sedge]

I do suppose implementing it is the first step. Numbers are easy to adjust from there.

[opal sedge]

Ah we're doing that? Nice.

[lethal thunder]

I would imagine or else summons would be very strange

[lethal thunder]

For Linie: maybe make her ability scale off of individual hits instead of one per turn if she’s attacking

It’s kinda hard to build chains without interrupts

As many characters have ways to forcefully end her chain atm

Especially since her ability only works on base DMG iirc

So chain’s boost is not even that potent on her weaker attacks

[balmy nest]

I think jab needs do do +2 def instead of one, cause otherwise, the only other way to boost his defence is by using one of his blocks

[neat viper]

True. Literally unplayable.

WE NEED EDEL BUFF

[lethal thunder]

Wirbel also probably needs some anti-stall mod to his kit

Maybe exchange a Jubelade for a Bolt or Captain’s order

[tidal bluff]

Oh yeah, hag and I were discussing that it should get 1-2% pierce on all attacks for each point of true def active

[opal sedge]

Offensive Jubelade. If Captain’s Orders is used during Jubelade, the petals go and shank the opponent.

[topaz steppe]

I actually will have a vacation on both of the October weeks planned for the TCG event, and I still haven't done much work on Kanne/Lawine...

well, I'll see what I can pull off

[low flint]

@topaz steppe Catastravia hitting before Jilwer end

[tidal bluff]

I've already asked it for vs fern

[low flint]

Apologies boss

[tidal bluff]

Can flamme millenium barrier can be nerfed to only make permanent stat increases = 0. Or reduce its active turns because it is obnoxious

[opal sedge]

Her WR is in a sweet spot rn but I kinda agree. What about making the barrier apply to her as well?

[fierce crag]

nerf methode

[opal sedge]

I'd propose making Goddess' Healing Magic always wait for the next turn even if Methode has a spd advantage, the def gain on that is really strong.

[fierce crag]

restraint magic has basically no draw back

as the debuff is applied first

a double restraint magic is even dumber

[opal sedge]

If empowered a lot. Perhaps reducing the amount in her deck would be in order?

[fierce crag]

there are so many ways to drag the game o nwith methode

also hypnotic compulsion with one step ahead is like 30 damage

you can also use it for a free reversed polarity

or a free retstraint magic

[fierce crag]

yeah 1 restraint magic would be a lot better

but what would it be replaced with

every one of her cards are good besides maybe polymath

[opal sedge]

Polymath would be more useful if the amount of restrains are reduced. Methode would use it to go fishing for it. If we do the Goddess nerf I proposed earlier maybe she can get a second one to compensate?

[fierce crag]

i think spot weakness buff is way too strong

methode is a controller but her stats are so great

and she has 3 blocks

which arent even basic ones

[opal sedge]

Her offensive stats aren't that hot imo

[orchid dock]

Testing

Jump

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[fierce crag]

consider this case study

it isnt atypical either

[opal sedge]

23 atk by turn 19 is pretty normal for most characters

[fierce crag]

restraing magic + attacks + hypnotic compulsion is peak controlling

yeah but methode reduces the opponent's character's stats

if you dont have a scaling character you are literally finished

[opal sedge]

Restaint stacking is annoying, but if done incorrectly ends up buffing the opponent since they can't be reduced below 1

[fierce crag]

the fact that it's going to 1 is already concerning

ubel is the dps chraacter and im out here with
-22 net attack
-20 net def
-16 net speed

[opal sedge]

Most characters are scaling characters. And if not they scale of a single stat like Laufen does for spd, or a feature like Edel's discards. Ubel's an exception, her stat gains are meh in exchange for def ignore

[fierce crag]

sure, but does she not scale as high as other scaling characters for a character that isn't meant to be dps?

[opal sedge]

She's dps because scaling outside of speed is (almost) irrelevant due to ignoring def.

[fierce crag]

are you referring to the ubel matchup?

a <5 def ignore is not doing many favours for me

[opal sedge]

Wait I though you were talking about Ubel's dps

[fierce crag]

nah i mean methode

from spot weakness

polymath

hypnotic compulsion attac reduce

godess healing magic def buff

restraing magic temporary stat nerf

[opal sedge]

Early Methode got royally fucked without good atk gain because of all the multihit attacks she has. She became reliant on Piercing Shot.

[fierce crag]

she has 2 piercing shots

which is also reason for concern imo

she has balanced cards on paper i suppose btu she has multiple of every one

also the blocks are an extreme annoyance

and you need to constantly play around hypnotic compulsion

when she has two of them

[opal sedge]

She has one

[fierce crag]

o

mb then

i guess it's just common to get back from polymath

[low flint]

Her issue is not the cards themselves

It's that by the time she has kind of cycled her stuff she already has everything back

And I don't mean by Turn 14

I mean by Turn 10

[fierce crag]

Yeah

Decent cards that become great because they are so accessible

[obtuse steeple]

Methode should only have 1 restraint

2 restraint magics just become way too oppressive

And the opponent cannot do anything

Especially if it’s a character which doesn’t attack much

[fierce crag]

Ita vero

[obtuse steeple]

Which isn’t helped by how it barely nerfs her anyways

[obtuse steeple]

English

[fierce crag]

But if u replace restraint with another methode card it’s still good

Because all of methode’s cards are strong

Asides from polymath maybe

But polymath has its uses

[obtuse steeple]

Yeah so 1 restraint and nerf her more

Maybe a polymath because I barely see it in her deck

[fierce crag]

There’s 2

[obtuse steeple]

Rlly damn

But like yeah 2 restraints are way too oppressive

And rlly like take the fun out of anything

[fierce crag]

Certainly

[lethal thunder]

I am against the reversion back to one restraint

Methode was dead last and absolutely terrible with one restraint

[obtuse steeple]

Oh

[lethal thunder]

She had 20% WR

[obtuse steeple]

Well it’s rlly unfun to play against her when she just spams restraints tho

[lethal thunder]

In that patch

[obtuse steeple]

I see…

[lethal thunder]

Like she has historically been very weak

This is the first patch where she’s actually been consistently viable

And she’s not even overpowered

Like Aura had 65% WR a few patches back

[obtuse steeple]

Honestly yeah she’s not she’s just really unfun against

[lethal thunder]

What makes her unfun exactly?

Like I don’t really find it to be that bad playing against her

I do agree restraint probably should have some of the ordering fixed so that the ATK penalty and DEF reduction dont harshly interact with each other so she’s punished for restraining

[obtuse steeple]

She’s too controlling with not a major weakness for me at least ig although it rlly depends some games you out buff her restraints quickly enough it’s good

Other times you get horribly bogged down by her restraint magic and compulsions

[lethal thunder]

I mean she is weak in long term scaling

And you can punish that with someone like Fern or Sense pretty easily

Her recovery isn’t super great relatively speaking

And her HP costs are quite high if you don’t have any buffs from spot weakness or restraint active

[obtuse steeple]

Yeah at least with a game I just had as stark against her I very quickly outbuffed her attacks

Would it be possible to like lower her early game but allow her to gain stats a bit easier?

[lethal thunder]

So make Spot Weakness stronger but restraint weaker?

She’s also incredibly bad at SPD gain

[fierce crag]

Spot weakness is the most broken card

An insane buff with no drawback

[lethal thunder]

+3 ATK and +3 SPD while good is only one card

It’s her only real permanent buffing card

She otherwise has no other true scaling other then Goddess Magic read

[fierce crag]

Polymath

Hypnotic compulsion nerfs the enemy

[lethal thunder]

That’s hardly relevant considering how low the buff is

[lethal thunder]

I mean you could argue Fern is much worse in terms of buffing

Sein has absurd ATK gain

So does Frieren

[obtuse steeple]

Hmm maybe replace one of her blocks or restraint with another buff card or maybe buff polymath a bit

Polymath needs more love-

I hardly ever see it

[fierce crag]

Why are we buffing methode now

[lethal thunder]

Polymath has a very strong effect

[lethal thunder]

I mean why are we nerfing her?

She’s not outrageously strong currently

Like yeah you can make adjustments

But you’re acting like she’s super powerful atm like Sein was

Like irreversibility is incredibly frustrating

But that’s sticking around

[fierce crag]

She has the second highest winrate

And the first character just got nerfed

[lethal thunder]

It’s not that high man

[fierce crag]

She went from like the lowest to the highest

[lethal thunder]

Sein was 60 WR for 3 straight patches

[obtuse steeple]

I mean if we remove one restraint magic and replace it with a slightly buffed polymath methode won’t take that much of a hit as she can discard it quicker and she’ll be able to increase stats better to make her more viable

[fierce crag]

Which is why he was nerfed

[dire rapids]

I think that might be the main source of frustration

[lethal thunder]

And Methode has had 1 patch which I’m not even sure will remain consistent

[dire rapids]

Rather than her being actually overpowered she's just more relevant now

[lethal thunder]

Like she was 20 WR before

Like legit one of the worst characters in terms of success

And now she’s got to a point where she’s actually playable

[lethal thunder]

I wonder if piercing shot was implemented like how I initially envisioned if it would make a difference

[dire rapids]

What was the original idea

[lethal thunder]

Rather than a 2x hit it was just a 1 hit with conditional higher damage and pierce

It interacts with restraint which it was never really intended to do

[dire rapids]

Oh yeah that would do doubly better against defense