#Flamme Kit brainstorming

1184 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

steady phoenix
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Yeah there's a few cases like that for sure

still goblet
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And then have it go into another cycle

steady phoenix
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Unless you wanted to go the route where theory cards usually have the highest empower

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In essence though yeah

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You're right it would be easily one of the most interesting matchups

still goblet
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Like Flamme’s deck could be very thin in practice actually

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Hmm maybe it can be add it Theory cards to your deck instead of directly to your hand?

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It would make it interesting because Flamme’s in essence about trying to get through her deck fast

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Like her core idea would be currently on a empower^2 set

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Would be to get 4 theory cards in play ASAP

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Get the card in hand to let it empower

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And then survive using whatever disruption tools she has

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Until she can play Pinnacle to kill

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I do think one theory card probably has to be a regen card of some kind

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Like once in play Flamme heals 5 HP every turn or something

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I do like the idea that theory cards should empower so there’s a risk/reward in just playing them immediately vs letting them be more potent with empower

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They might even scale differently instead of the standard 10%

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Like a regen theory could be heal HP equal to 0.5*this card’s empower level

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So its power increases by a factor of 1 instead of a factor of 0.1

bitter zealot
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Theory of Goddess' Magic: Heal 2 HP + 0.2 x Turn Count every turn

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really fun at least thematically

bitter zealot
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Also just cus YuGiOh nostalgia (and the fact you only have 2 copies of it)

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Another idea I do have though, is to have Theory not empower, and make her Barrier cards be the empower ones instead

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Thousand Year Sanctuary, Tree Of Life etc

still goblet
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I can use this now for immediate help in survival

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Or I can maybe delay and get some increased benefits

bitter zealot
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Truuu

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tho theory cards not empowering feels more interesting in a "Theory" or "Thematical" sense ykno

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but these are all just theories

still goblet
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lol I just like her being empowered focused

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And well why not lean into it and have even those cards use empower

bitter zealot
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Truuuu

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I just think that if Theory are about theory then it would be nice if like, one is about Empower, one is about stats, one is about this or that

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but we'll have to work it out

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though in essence her deck would have like

  • Theory cards that interact with the mechanics one way or another, affecting both characters, be it as a disruption or stall
  • Barrier cards that are meant to stall or disrupt. Thematically might make more sense as a stall item but we can take it in different ways
    But essentially a lot of control-esque cards meant to be disruptive or stalling in a way that's not too Discard-related (cus that's Edel's territory)
    (we can make it about Empower control too)
bitter zealot
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gonna pin that so i can get back to this convo later

still goblet
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Part of me even thought that her deck could literally be mostly Notes and then disruption cards lol

bitter zealot
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Honestly would be a fun idea too

still goblet
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Though 4 random theories is uh maybe not as good as having the theories themselves just be in the deck

bitter zealot
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"Flamme's Notes: Add a random Theory card to your Discard pile. Remove this card from play."

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I think both ideas have merits

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Ultimately it depends on how thick or thin her final deck would be

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and what discard speed she would want to have

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or deck recycling speed

still goblet
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Barrier that deals damage if opponent attacks while it’s active

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Lowers threshold for Pinnacle to kill

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Without actively attacking opponent

bitter zealot
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If I'm going with empower ^ empower then at 4 the card would deal like 256 damage

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obviously can change tho

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like empower ^ 2

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but that might take a mighty longer time, considering you can only start empowering it once you played all your theories and cycled through your deck a couple of times

still goblet
bitter zealot
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Ah

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icic

still goblet
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Like a theory that doubles rate of empower growth

bitter zealot
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For both characters

still goblet
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Or Flamme’s notes having added effect of empowering random card in hand by its empower level or something

bitter zealot
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I'll sit down next weekend and grind something out probably

still goblet
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lol though the idea of theories makes me think of what it’d be like if other characters had similar “Power” cards like Slay the Spire

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Like a single use card that doubles analysis growth for Frieren

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Or a single use card that lengthens the barrier timer of Serie

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Or gives Stark resolve on damage etc.

bitter zealot
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What even are Power cards anw?

still goblet
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Like you play “After Image” and from that point onward you get 1 point of block every time you play a card

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Or “Demon Form” you play it once and you get essentially a permanent +2 ATK boost every turn

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Like in practice it could be a card for Frieren that say once in play refunds 1 extra analysis every time she attacks

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Or it extends the barriers of Serie by 1 turn

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Stuff like that

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lol I think it would be fun if the decks could be customized like that

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So you can choose 16 cards from a deck of like 20 cards per character and customize that

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Though that is like much more difficult to balance lol

bitter zealot
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Ahhhh

still goblet
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Stuff like that would be cool like for late game revitalization or something lol

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Like hey we ran out of new characters

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But here’s more cards and sets to play with and customize

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And then it’s really more like a true deck builder as you literally build the deck

steady phoenix
steady phoenix
granite pike
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now that I've cooled off, I'm just going to say, it's incredibly fucking annoying being told to sit the fuck down and not share ideas because you don't play the game as much as others. if you want to gatekeep theory crafting to x games played, sure, but then don't make this a public forum. when I pitched prio for 2 turns for fern, largely because it's in line with character lore, I got told that I don't play enough, except lo and behold, mana concealment is hardly meta breaking on fern because she has high speed, and in the end a diff character will have the quick draw priority attack archetype, so was it really that broken? when I say that I like hexa's idea for flamme's ability because it's fitting for her lore, I get told that I don't play enough despite nothing even being beta tested yet, and despite me not even being the one that outlined the exact ability, and despite no final decision having been made yet one way or another about what the ability would be. if you disagreed, you could at least respect the thought process lore-wise that went into the theorizing before dismissing (what isn't even) my idea wholesale, or you could just ignore my arguments, because everything is being considered, so with more game knowledge your arguments should be more sound than mine anyways

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anyhow, I'm sure flamme will be fun.

still goblet
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Second I do respect the thought process behind the lore

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I always have

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Your contributions are very much appreciated and I like them

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I just give my opinion based on my experience playing the game in terms of gameplay

still goblet
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Oh boy I think isu actually may have blocked me

steady phoenix
still goblet
steady phoenix
still goblet
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Ah well, I really do like isu and respect them so it sucks if they blocked me over this. But whatever that’s ultimately their choice.

final gulch
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I feel like a big attack skill for Flamme could be called "How a great mage thinks"

bitter zealot
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That could be a status card too

final gulch
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Maybe, but its pretty early in the series when she vaporizes 3-4 demons after saying the line

bitter zealot
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Pinnacle of Human Magic

final gulch
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that would be a really cool Abillity/sub abillity

bitter zealot
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Right now I'm thinking of giving her a card that's only usable after certain setup that deals Empower ^ Empower damage

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cus it seems cool

final gulch
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what does empower damage do?

bitter zealot
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like if the card's empower level is 0 it deals 0 ^ 0 = 1 damage

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if it's empower 1 it deals 1 ^ 1 = 1 damage

still goblet
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Instead of a set value

bitter zealot
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2: 2^2 = 4
3: 3^3 = 27
4: 4^4 = 256
5: 5^5 = 3125

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etc etc

final gulch
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oooo, so hella damage hijinks

bitter zealot
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It's basically an instant win card but you need a lot of researching and theorizing on the Foundation of Humanity's Magic to arrive at that

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(play a certain number of Theory cards)

final gulch
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so abillity count

bitter zealot
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Kinda

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Right now my draft is that her deck has 4 (or 5 maybe) theory cards that once used is removed from her deck

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Once she used all 4/5 theory cards, a "Pinnacle of Humanity's Magic" card is added to her Discard pile

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the card being the stupid damage card

final gulch
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draws are based on rng right?

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Like that is exodia

bitter zealot
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yeah lmao

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it is exodia

stiff pawn
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Exodia! Obliterate FlammeChildExcited

final gulch
bitter zealot
bitter zealot
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ALRIGHT

slim gulch
bitter zealot
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FlammeSmile2 Flamme

HP: 100
ATK: 12
DEF: 12
SPD: 12

Ability: Founder of Humanity's Magic - After playing 4 Theory cards, add 1 "Pinnacle of Humanity's Magic" to your Discard pile. Pinnacle of Humanity's Magic: ATK**+100** DEF**+100** SPD**+100**. Deal 100 DMG

Sub-Ability: Deceitful - This character's stat is always displayed as 10/1/1/1. This character can also see past the opponent's Mana Suppression.

Deck: 16 Cards + 4 Theory Cards

  • Incantation: Barrier x3: Heal 5 HP. Gain 2 Sigils. If you have less than 2 Flamme's Note cards in your hand, discard a random card, add 1 Flamme's Note from the active or discard pile to your hand.
  • Incantation: Field of Flowers x2: Heal 5 HP. At the next 3 turns' ends, heal 3 HP. Gain 1 Sigil at the end of every turn.
  • Incantation: Seduction Technique x2: Heal 3 HP. Opp's ATK-2. Opp's SPD-1. Gain 1 Sigil.

(14 sigils gained per rotation)

  • Millenium Barrier x1: DEF+5 and SPD+5. If Theory of Irreversibilty is active, all opponent's stat increases are set to 0. At the end of every turn, HP-3, -3 Sigils. This effect lasts until the number of Sigil you have is <= 0.

  • Thousand Year Sanctuary x2: Opp's ATK-3 and Opp's SPD-3. If Theory of Balance is active, the turn count stops increasing. At the end of every turn, HP-2, -2 Sigils. This effect lasts until the number of Sigil you have is <= 0.

  • Tree of Life x2: Heal 10 HP. Roll an additional dice during card activation phase. If Theory of Prescience is active, this roll of dice will always be 4. At the end of every turn, HP-1, -1 Sigil. This effect lasts until the number of Sigil you have is <= 0.

  • Flamme's Notes x2: Discard a random card. If there is no Theory card in your deck, draw 1 card. Otherwise, add a random Theory card to your hand, and if Theory of Souls is not active, -1 Sigil.

  • Primitive Defensive Technique x2: Priority+2. TrueDEF+20 for 1 turn. -1 Sigil. If "Pinnacle of Humanity's Magic" is in your hand, discard it. Draw 1 card.

  • Theory of Irreversibility x 1: All stat changes for both players are halved. HP can no longer be recovered. Remove this card from the deck once it is used.

  • Theory of Balance x 1: The Empower level for all card is now equal to the Turn Count. Remove this card from the deck once it is used.

  • Theory of Prescience x 1: The roll of the first 4 dices for both players for which cards are active for any given turn will always be 0, 1, 2, 3. Remove this card from the deck once it is used.

  • Theory of Souls x 1: Both players swap their own active and discard piles. Remove this card from the deck once it is used.

bitter zealot
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@still goblet @steady phoenix What do we think

steady phoenix
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Instead of removing the cards I think they need to be replaced

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Unless you want to make that really intentional

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That she has a super fast cycle

bitter zealot
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Her starting cycle is 16 cards + 4 theory, so 20 in total

steady phoenix
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Oh okay

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Flammes notes needs and upgrade if no theories

bitter zealot
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Truu

steady phoenix
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And sigil shouldn't heal I don't think

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She already has field of flowers, can't be too much of a defensive menace

bitter zealot
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Thousand Year Sanctuary has such a healing vibe to it tho....

steady phoenix
bitter zealot
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It doesn't give DEF

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Well Barrier does but that's a separate card

steady phoenix
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Then why's it called barrier sigil

bitter zealot
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Common mechanism AuraShrug

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A sanctuary is a barrier

steady phoenix
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Alright

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In any case basically everything here is health or defense

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She'd be un killable

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Best tank in the game can't rival this

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Also not sure if the theory cards will actually be fun or beneficial

bitter zealot
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We can adjust the numbers accordingly if we feel that it's too much

steady phoenix
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I like the concept of flammes notes

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And ye that's my feedback

bitter zealot
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She doesn't have thaaat much perma DEF up unlike Sense, so she's actually rather vulnerable

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Will need testing though

steady phoenix
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She's got better passive healing than sein

slim gulch
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There isn’t a diff between true def and def right?

steady phoenix
slim gulch
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Ohhhh oke

bitter zealot
steady phoenix
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In essence, she's really tanky and while the idea of discovering and using perm effects on the game is fun idk about these

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Wonder what red will say

bitter zealot
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Prescience probably is good

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since both players can basically use whichever cards they have in hand

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irreversibility is more beneficial to her since that means she doesn't lose stats from barrier expiring, though it renders certain cards useless, like serie's various barriers

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Souls is more tactical since for a bit you can know exactly what cards your opponent would use

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Irreversibility and Balance are a bit of a question mark rn

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And I probably should remove the part about stat adjustment obfuscation since fighting against that as a tank is kinda crazy

slim gulch
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I like the idea of that. maybe that should be saved for a demon character

bitter zealot
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Might be perfect for ||Solitar|| actually

slim gulch
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Exactly who I was thinking of

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||My favorite demon ngl. Just so well-written and portrayed.||

bitter zealot
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i love her sm omg

still goblet
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I mean I think Flamme is gonna be very strange since she’s very passive and it doesn’t really feel there’s going to be a back and forth between players

bitter zealot
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yeahh since it's mostly flamme doing flamme things while the opponent tries to react

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In exodia type deck it's also mostly one side tries their best to stall and draw cards until they get all exodia while the others tries to get their own game going to overpower the other

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tried to do a similar thing (the more exodia cards you have in hand the less handspace you have to work with) by making it so that the theory cards are actively detrimental