Popularity event suggestions/concerns

[astral frigate]

It’s not politics or a business poll

It’s a silly goofy character tournament with basically zero stakes besides your time

And they didn’t change the rules on a whim they warned us about it for a good while before it changed and took a lot of suggestions

I think out of all ways to handle it that was the best way

[potent scarab]

The point of method remains.You cannot know how things would have turned out. You have effectively invalidated the time (which costs) of those who wanted to support previously eliminated characters under different rules.

[somber monolith]

yeah. I hate change rule midgame.
better just keep old rule and let people have fun than please the people not even care about event at all

[astral frigate]

I’m pretty sure we knew exactly how things would’ve turned out considered how it went was how we expected it to turn out

Without log sense and Serie dominate

With log sense/linie/stille/sein falls off and then is knocked out in losers bracket

Serie was the outlier here basically

[somber monolith]

if I know about new rule from the begining
I probably don't care about event at all (maybe until only at final round)

[potent scarab]

It still does not invalidate my point.

[somber monolith]

But because I invested to this event to much from the start so I have follow it to the end

[astral frigate]

It doesn’t invalidate the opposite point either

What your doing here is effectively useless because the owner mods and most participants simply don’t share your ideology

[somber monolith]

If they keeping old rule I would support the bird to beat crap out Serie

[astral frigate]

Honestly I’d deserve it LMFAO

I’m glad Himmel fans didn’t get revenge on me

[potent scarab]

The problem is not mine. If you change the rules on the run you simply invalidate the tournament. This doesn't change that.
Better to have an ugly tournament with nonsensical rules but carried through to the end than to change them on the fly.
You 4 told me that overly stringent rules invalidate the attractiveness of the tournament, those are even further from what I would do. But if they were those to the end I couldn't say anything, it's a chosen direction.

[potent scarab]

That's spicy tho.

[somber monolith]

I thought you talking making voter matter?
if you talking about keeping the rule from start to then end then I totally agree with you

It should be that way

but the rule from the start is no propaganda at all
so actually I only want the rule when it start include propaganda and keep it until the end

[potent scarab]

I am always oriented to my idea about voting. But I'm not so dense that I want to change the rules on the fly once they've been decided.

I may not agree with them, they can really gross me out, but if I know you play with those from start to finish I'm definitely in the game.

[astral frigate]

Again: nobody really cares if it’s a valid tournament

The rules changed and we were given enough warning that a lot of the old posters stuck around/returned later

[potent scarab]

Even this change, if made even after only one vote, has in fact invalidated the tournament.
They could have been trivially the subject of aesthetic accompaniment (figuring that everything else was already included in the rules: referring to dungeons, trivia, and I don't know what else).

[astral frigate]

I was one of the people most effected by said changes considering quite literally almost every chsracyer I’ve to fight for has been the underdog

And yeah it stopped me from posting ganda for a bit and play the other games of which I did uh

Varying success

But in the end I joined back in anyways cahss I realized literally who cares it’s fun

The virtual discord anime elf contest is shockingly

Not that deep

Trying to make it that serious and deep is what would ruin it

[potent scarab]

It remains a problem despite anyone's opinion.

[astral frigate]

Does it really

Mods seem pretty happen, majority of the participants seem pretty happy, even the people who lost in the end accepted it and thought it was fun

I know a lot more people now and we have like 50 new emotes

Great success I’d say

[potent scarab]

The concept of competitive integrity exists.

[astral frigate]

Sure but does it look like anyone cares

Like I like think that’s what it boils down to

Objectivity is useless when the entire thing was subjective to begin with

[somber monolith]

I think it is fine cause it add more not changing
basically it like in the game where difficult changing
like most of those sport in qualified round there is less thing to make it faster
but later round you add more thing

[neon axle]

There was a minimal amount of rule changes to preserve the integrity of the tournamet. They did as less stuff as possible and the participants voted for allbof the changes

If tnere was never a rule change we would have never gotten propaganda (which lead to like 20 new stickers/emojis in the server), a literal TCG made from the ground up or a hand crafted multi-hour escape room with fully original art assets. The point of the tournament was first and foremost to have fun.

[potent scarab]

The point remains. How would the pre-change rounds have gone under the new rules?

[astral frigate]

It was an event with tournament-like characteristics tbh

[astral frigate]

Your point remains but the point doesn’t matter

I don’t get what you don’t see here

[neon axle]

Meetings?

[astral frigate]

It’s like saying “This party wasn’t good because there wasn’t beer” when everybody enjoyed the party and nobody wanted beer in the first place

[potent scarab]

Soz, my T9 lol

[neon axle]

What?

[potent scarab]

You see lol

[neon axle]

"Soz, my T9 lol"
???

[astral frigate]

No clue vang no clue 😭

[neon axle]

Chat, what language is this 😭

[somber monolith]

I fine with they add beer
but not fun is the part they change beer to wine mid game (aka nerf propaganda)

[potent scarab]

Sometimes my phone is a bit dumb. But it is what It is

[astral frigate]

Yeah that was kinda lame but people did vote for it

And I can see why it was required

And it’s not like they upped and chances rules every single section

They always waited

And after that each section got a new gimmick

So it was hardly a rule change and more a gimmick change

[neon axle]

The majority avreed that propaganda should have been nerfed and it made every fight muchlre meaningful. Would you have even bothered with the countless frieren artworks if there was no nerf? Frieren would have lost to Series by 3000 points at least (the total votes fro both participants were like 300 lmao)

[potent scarab]

Still the problem. This could ruin having fun for someone.

[astral frigate]

Ok

So they can just

Not partake in the event

That is an option

[neon axle]

The reason why the rule changed even happened was because people stopped having fun and complaoned

[astral frigate]

If a voter thinks they don’t have enough power, participate more. If they don’t like that, then don’t

It really isn’t that big of a deal

[potent scarab]

But changing them simply makes things worse. As bad as they are you keep them as they are.

[astral frigate]

Not really

Things definitely got better

Participation went up

In fact we ended up with more prospgsnds

All things point to that statement just being incorrect

[neon axle]

Once again, if the tournament has zero rule changes.

There would be:

• NO Propaganda at all
• NO TCG/RPG game
• NO Werewolf game
• NO Dungeon (with fully original art)
• NO Loser Bracket

[potent scarab]

Yes but who cares? Still a rule change... And still a problem. If you don't see the reason I can't do anything about it

[astral frigate]

Nobody cares!it was fun! It was not a problem

That’s the end of it

[potent scarab]

Well ok, still a decision.

[neon axle]

Rule change >>>>>>>>>> Rule that completely destroys the tournament

[astral frigate]

^

It worked out for the better and you can’t deny that

[potent scarab]

Rule change destroys a tournament...

[astral frigate]

Mmmm too bad it didn’t tho

[neon axle]

If it were up to you Danic we would just have regular agh polls for the entire tournament

[astral frigate]

You can’t just repeat the same thing 8 times

Told you’re factually wrong 8 times

And then repeat it a ninth time

[gaunt cloud]

@potent scarab you seem to approach this from a scientific/competitive perspective, we're organizing it with a content/entertainment perspective.

[astral frigate]

We were definitely entertained

[neon axle]

Even competitive tournaments add changes mid event if they completely destroy the event

[somber monolith]

not like that. if not nerf propaganda Frieren would lost to to Sense
then it about Sense vs Serie

[astral frigate]

It’d be like going to a summer fair for kindergartens and getting mad the kids can no longer hit eachother with sledgehammers as a loophole in the rules

[neon axle]

Ah, he is just salty Sense lost?

[somber monolith]

and grand final would be 50 vs 50 not me vs Serie hivemind

[astral frigate]

Sense and Serie would’ve faced eachother earlier

[neon axle]

If there were no rule changes there would be no rule change, so no propaganda. So frieren sweep

[astral frigate]

So it’d be sense vs sein or serie vs sein

And then frieren always wins losers brackets

[somber monolith]

okay then grand final would be sense vs linie

[astral frigate]

Oh yeah Linie would’ve won huh

But then it’d be Serie vs Linie and then it’d be Serie vs frieren again

All roads lead to Rome…

[neon axle]

No rule change => No loser bracket, No propaganda

[gaunt cloud]

We don't really care about who's most popular. It's Frieren. Tournament is not about that.

I will agree on the lack of commitment to one aspect (straight fair polls vs gimmick). The polls were there to easily set the stage for people to ease into the event, and progressively adapt to the increasingly high effort alternative methods to gain points.
Maybe we should have marketed the tournament more as being bullshit or polls to only be a source of points. Who knows.

But it's weird that you're telling us that people will complain if we don't do XYZ when you're the only one complaining and we've been pulling 500 people for the finals (ie the same amount of people we had in the first few rounds 7 weeks (!!!) ago).

[potent scarab]

I actually live in Rome. Lol

[astral frigate]

Timothi is specifically complaining about the propaganda nerf so I’m just going based off that

[neon axle]

Everyone voted for it to change. So I don't see a problem

[somber monolith]

hey. no propaganda nerf then no loser basket

[astral frigate]

Yeah it sucked for some of us but was healthier in the end

[gaunt cloud]

There will be a post event survey posted today with the possibility to rate the overall and individual events and give extended feedback. We will take a look at the results and then learn from it.

[astral frigate]

“Why didn’t frieren win the frieren tournament”

[somber monolith]

It would be Sense vs Linie final

no grand final

[neon axle]

I will write a 500 word essay about the april fool's event (which was the after party of the event)

[somber monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/gordon-ramsay-idiot-sandwich-angry-mad-what-are-you-gif-4169547

[astral frigate]

Honestly if we wanted a torusnmemt where polls and propaganda was equal I’d just look at the official polls and check the art channels

Wouldn’t be anything special

[potent scarab]

I just hope that for the next one, the rules won't be changed in the running. Even changing one, looking at it from the mere entertainment point, you go and ruin somebody's experience.
Otherwise as said above, I will see what the format will be like for the next one when it is. In case I will see whether to participate

[astral frigate]

No matter what happens I will be there to fight for Länge

[gaunt cloud]

I'd even say we more than enough accounted for the lurkers that only click a button and can't be bothered to check out the propaganda channel by having a poll only loser bracket — I advocated for this despite the rest of the team and tournament regulars asking to at least add minimal gimmicks to the loser bracket.

Lurkers/bare minimum participants (click poll boom done people) already had a character that's go into the grand finals through the loser bracket by default.

Now I'm sorry but if the 80% of this server that favor frieren over serie couldn't be bothered to set aside some time this weekend for the event so they could take part in a quick event here a quick event there or react to some propaganda (the tournament had been going on for 7 weeks by then so everyone knows how these things compound) I don't think they deserve to win.

Frankly had just 5 more people reacted to timothi's shit then frieren would have won. Had there just be one dude making 4-5 more pieces for frieren then frieren then she probably would have won.

Propaganda and gimmick only overturned what, 3-4 poll results since we settled on the propaganda formula in the round of 32?

The sheer amount of content and engagement (tournament discussion was the second biggest channel activity wise after the cursed general), emotes, memes, joy, great feedback and such far outweigh the "competitive integrity" of the tournament. Every member had the same info about what happened, some people decided to publicly ban together, other didn't.

[somber monolith]

if only you don't nerf propaganda so hard

then everyone would have happy ending

[astral frigate]

Out of semi finals the major upsets were Serie v Frieren pt 1 and 2, Sein v Stark and that’s about it really. Linie and Laufen, Stille all lost and then sein lost to Serie which also reflected polls

[astral frigate]

Yeah I suggested waaay above a cap to the log

Cause once you’re above like 1000 raw reacts atp the value of a react shouldn’t go down anymore out of sheer fear

[somber monolith]

I too. cap is fine. but the cap is too low

[somber monolith]

ah. It would actually Laufen vs Sense

forgot about Laufen

[astral frigate]

It was a sad day when she eliminated 💔

[somber monolith]

final would be 50vs50

not fun when 1 vs 99 serie

[astral frigate]

A few Frierenatics joined in the end but Serie kinda rallied the server for revenge against frieren

[grand dirge]

Hello tournament chat

[astral frigate]

That and Lyu locked in and unlocked serienojutsu

[somber monolith]

it is revenge against system

[gaunt cloud]

You have no idea how much complaining we got privately from the serie fans because they felt like they were fighting windmills after the TCG games

[astral frigate]

I don’t think any of us expected that we dominated trivia so thoroughly

[gaunt cloud]

Like "we been prepping for this all week and timothi is just spitting out masterpiece after masterpiece what even the fuck are we supposed to do we're running two hours sleep please tell us if it's even worth keeping going"

[astral frigate]

Don’t worry frieren fan. we have 10,009 more Serie propaganda, Lyu, more Serie art on the double!

At some points it did feel like we fighting timothi and math as a concept rather than frieren fans as a whole

[grand dirge]

It's coz the tcg scoring points were upfront and known ahead of the end

[astral frigate]

Turns out those windmills were giants and all giants can be toppled!!!

[somber monolith]

it clearly as day that trivia matter

[astral frigate]

Definitely, it’s where our wikibros shined

Which great work btw giving a place not just for artist and haha funny guys to shine

Felt like everyone had a role

[grand dirge]

It would be kind of fairer if like, it's known ahead of time that the winning side of the trivia will get 200, loser gets 100. Or some other predetermined point calculation

[potent scarab]

I'm still learning new mechanics about the tournament that I was ignoring... Thx discord... Lol

[astral frigate]

I mean we didn’t really know the propaganda scores either to be fair

[grand dirge]

There's enough to guess

[somber monolith]

you are meat that mods throwing at war

[astral frigate]

Haiju kept track of it but I don’t think anyone wanted to go and count trivia points besides the mod team lmfao

[astral frigate]

fabricated war for more elf emotes

The mods have tricked us all

[potent scarab]

Yeah, kinda. Still meh to me, but seems it was fun, so ok I guess.

[grand dirge]

So points: tcg, polls, known before it happen. The dungeon and the spam events, known only after it finished, trivia and propaganda, only announced at the end of the match

[astral frigate]

Adds some suspense to it

Which I think is a good thing

Don’t wanna know exactly what’s gonna happen

It was a glorious feeling seeing the trivia scores knowing this might be the thing that gives us a chance

[neon axle]

You are like the number 1 person who would get screwed over during Frieren VS Serie

[astral frigate]

Honestly with the existence of Lyu alone I could see sense being beaten by Serie

[grand dirge]

lyu would be on Sense's side, no?

[astral frigate]

Not to mention throwing Isu and the others into there who aren’t primarily senslings

[astral frigate]

I don’t think so

No sense role, not in the sense server

Serie doesn’t need a server because this is already her server

[somber monolith]

no. it would not be Frieren vs serie

if no propaganda nerf

[neon axle]

Why not?

[astral frigate]

Frieren would be dead and gone tbh

[neon axle]

In which round

[somber monolith]

cause Frieren would lose to Sense

[astral frigate]

She got eliminated by Serie already but she would’ve lose to sense

[neon axle]

Okay.... but Frieren would still win the losers bracket... so?

[somber monolith]

no propaganda nerf mean no loser basket

[neon axle]

Why

[astral frigate]

Of course we could get the worst ending and Stille beats Serie, sense, and then wins finals

Fully possible outcome

[neon axle]

The loser bracket was an inevitability

[somber monolith]

cause loser basket and propagand nerf is there for mods to please people only vote

[neon axle]

So you wanted every rule change except those that were to help the people who only voted?

[somber monolith]

it is one rule change

[neon axle]

Loser brackdt and propaganda nerf are 2 rule changes

[astral frigate]

They came in a pair iirc

[somber monolith]

even if loser basket happen.
not sure people will all opposite Frieren

[astral frigate]

And then losers bracket explicitly had propaganda banned as a secondary nerf to propaganda

I could see frieren losing in losers bracket if propaganda was allowed there

[neon axle]

You say you only complain about a single "rule change" but the fact of the matter is that there are way too many variables.

The introduction of propaganda itself was a rule change. The propaganda nerf wasba rule change. The introduction of a loser bracket with a specific anti propaganda nerf is a rule change.

[astral frigate]

Funny how a fuckass bird may or may not have caused all this

It all started with goku

Ok no it started with the tie

[neon axle]

You are not proposing keeping a single rule same. You are proposing an entirely different tournament.

[astral frigate]

But it’s funnier to say goku

[astral frigate]

Most relevant thing Falsch has ever done

[neon axle]

Goku did in fact play a huge role

And Goku VS Stille happened before thebFalsch tie

[astral frigate]

Goku Vs Stille, Richter vs Stille, and then Himmel vs Stille

Linie vs Fern was the double whammy

[neon axle]

Too many factors led to the state of propaganda

[astral frigate]

And then stark got offed by sein and frieren by Serie twice after the nerfs

[neon axle]

If it wasn't for those we mighy have never ever gotten prop in the first place

[somber monolith]

one rule change is mods make propaganda happen.
and it is adding

[neon axle]

What?

I am not really sure what you are trying to say. But the winner of the tournament being decided by the winner of the 2 brackets is a huge rule change.

[somber monolith]

mean no propaganda nerf mean no rule change. mean nothing change

[gaunt cloud]

Yeah we dropped the ball on that one.

[somber monolith]

the propaganda keep as it is

[neon axle]

@gaunt cloud would loser brackets happen if Propaganda never got nerfed?

[somber monolith]

to the end

[neon axle]

The tournament already had like 10 rule changes. Why does no propaganda nerf also mean no other change?

[gaunt cloud]

Nope.

[neon axle]

Was the fact that the propaganda got nerfed the sole reason for introducing a losers vracket? Seems weird to me

[gaunt cloud]

We only made the loser bracket and nerfed propaganda because we saw the massive impact the elimination of fern himmel and Ubel had on the morale + we felt bad for the denkenbros.

[neon axle]

The cause for making the loser bracket was not nerfing the propaganda. So I don't see why excluding oje of them affects the other

[gaunt cloud]

I came up with the loser bracket for several reasons

• Calm down the outcry against propaganda
• Correct the effects of the very unbalanced propaganda
• Give us something interesting to do in the down time between big events rather than meaningless friendlies

Then announced it as a "haha this was the plan all along!”

[neon axle]

Sounds to me like not nerfing the propaganda provides even more of a reason for a losers bracket :/

[gaunt cloud]

The thing is that we felt that the ganda was unbalanced any way (sense got 5x the total turnout in terms of Ganda...) and that if we'd scale up other events to match the Ganda the polls would be even more meaningless.
Maybe that'd have been the right call to make but as you might notice it's a damn if you do damn if you don't situation.

[neon axle]

(If you just said "we might have added a losers bracket regardless", Timothy would have no basis to complain)

[gaunt cloud]

Also the logic for the Ganda was to prevent brigading and people try harding too much, because basically if the active base of propaganda makers settled on a character, there was just no fighting against it.

[neon axle]

(Which still happened)

[gaunt cloud]

The log function used yields more points for small amounts of propaganda (by more I mean that for low react amounts you get more points than with a linear raw react count), which in theory should encourage the leading faction to make propaganda to keep themselves safe.

The diminishing returns were to limit the sweatshop effect.

[gaunt cloud]

I've never lied publicly for PR reasons.

[neon axle]

The formula was perfect as is. You just lacked the foresight when a brand new mechanic was introduced

[somber monolith]

hey. I can tell when people lying

[gaunt cloud]

It's not for a lack of public discussion (in this channel) and describing it in tournament discussion

[neon axle]

I was just joking obviously

[gaunt cloud]

Then again people generally don't bother reading shit when information is given as you vange should well know since you've modded communities too.

[neon axle]

Timothi would you have been happy if when Propaganda was introduced they said "the effect of propaganda might be tweaked in the next 2 rounds"?

[somber monolith]

ah yeah. then I would support himmel and ubel to win

cause the bird would lose anyway

[potent scarab]

I hope in some better things for next one... It's viable in some way, but let see... I'll give a read at the next tournament regulation when it comes...

[kindred swan]

lyu was Denken side lmao

[grand dirge]

in a hypothetical Serie vs Sense!

[kindred swan]

Nahhhh - they love Serie too much in the wiki channel

would have been a crazy fight though

[nova palm]

lyu is one of the og serie flairs haha

[grand dirge]

I see

[nova palm]

also this whole convo is wild given danic joined the server March 22 of this year, so there is only one tournament format they were even here for

[potent scarab]

Fun fact, i'm having a similar discussion right now on another server (a bit more serious with the topic, lol)

[gaunt cloud]

🤔

I'm sorry we're not up to your standards of seriousness

[potent scarab]

No need to apologize, nothing happened! We just have different views: it's just normal!

[gaunt cloud]

It's sarcasm

[potent scarab]

Yes, I know! But still, it's also the way I am: I never found things made specifically to “be funny” to be amusing, maybe hot a couple of times it happened, but once the euphoria passed I felt like a jerk when I thought about it again. I'm weird. Everyone has their own weirdness.

[gaunt cloud]

It's fine

I just think it's weird that you'd plop here, spend 4 hours discussing a topic with us, seemingly not understanding where we come from, and then snark about another server being more serious about the topic.