Frieren fakemon concepts

[normal pier]

Himmel: Flying/Fairy
-Abilities: Sharpness
-Hidden Ability: Intrepid Sword
-Attacks: Sacred Sword, Aero-Ace, Air Cutter, Air Slash, Slash, Cut, Spirit Break, Dazzling Gleam, Charm, U-Turn,
[Hp: 70, Atk: 155, Def: 80, SpAtk: 90, SpDef 70, Int: 135]

Frieren: Ice/Electric
-Abilities: Truant, Slow Start
-Hidden Ability: Levitate
-Attacks: Blizzard, Aurora Veil, Snowscape, Freeze Dry, Ice Beam, Icy Wind, Thunderbolt, Thunderbolt, Discharge, Electro Web, Charge Beam, Thunder Shock, Thunder Wave
[can learn every TM]
[Hp: 70, Atk: 90, Def: 55, SpAtk: 155, SpDef 135, Int: 95]

Eisen: Steel/Fighting
-Abilities: Stamina, Thick Fat
-Hidden Ability: Guts
-Attacks: Body Press, Iron Defense, Behemoth Bash, Iron Head, Close Combat, U-Turn, Coaching, Fake Out, Bulk Up, Stone Axe
[Hp: 110, Atk: 125, Def: 130, SpAtk: 80, SpDef 95, Int: 60]

Heiter: Normal/Poison
-Abilities: Poison Heal, Tangled Feet
-Hidden Ability: Friend Guard
-Attacks: Follow Me, Helping Hand, Reflect, Light Screen, Heal Pulse, Encore, Fake Out, 
[Hp: 135, Atk: 95, Def: 100, SpAtk: 125, SpDef 110, Int: 35]

Fern: Water/Electric
-Abilities: Torrent
-Hidden Ability: Sniper
-Attacks: Snipe Shot, Water Gun, Water Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Rain Dance, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Discharge, Volt Switch, Electro Web, Charge Beam, Thunder Shock, Thunder Wave
[Hp: 70, Atk: 80, Def: 55, SpAtk: 135, SpDef 60, Int: 130]

Stark: Fire/Steel
-Abilities: Blaze
-Hidden Ability: Sharpness
-Attacks: [Flaming Axe: 90 bp, 100% accurate, Fire type, Slicing Move], [Mountain Splitter: 120 bp, 90% accurate, Steel Type, Slicing move, lowers atk by 2 stages after use], Stone Axe, Sacred Sword, Slash, Cut, Fury Cutter
[Hp: 110, Atk: 125, Def: 70, SpAtk: 80, SpDef 70, Int: 75]

Sein: Grass/Poison
-Abilities: Overgrow
-Hidden Ability: Hospitality
-Attacks: Pollen Puff, Spore, Absorb, Growth, Stun Spore, Rage Powder, Mega Drain, Synthesis, Clear Smog, Giga Drain, Ingrain, Toxic, Solar Beam
[Hp: 130, Atk: 85, Def: 90, SpAtk: 95, SpDef 90, Int: 40]

Übel: Dark
-Abilities: No Guard
-Hidden Ability: (?)
-Attacks: Nasty Plot
[Hp: 50, Atk: 65, Def: 50, SpAtk: 135, SpDef 65, Int: 115]

Land: Ground/Ghost
-Abilities: Disguise, Illusion
-Hidden Ability: (?)
-Attacks: Substitute, Shed Tail
[Hp: 55, Atk: 50, Def: 80, SpAtk: 110, SpDef 105, Int: 90]

Denken: Psychic
-Abilities: Magic Bounce, Telepathie
-Hidden Ability: Iron Fist
-Attacks: [most punching moves exempt from some signature moves], instruct, Trick Room, Calm Mind
[Hp: 110, Atk: 85, Def: 80, SpAtk: 120, SpDef 85, Int: 30]

Flamme: Fire/Fairy
-Abilities: Drought
-Attacks: Eruption, Heat Wave, Sacred Fire, Dazzling Gleam,
[Hp: 100, Atk: 100, Def: 90, SpAtk: 150, SpDef 140, Int: 90]

Serie: Normal
-Abilities: Terashell
-Attacks: Sketch
[can learn every TM]
[Hp: 70, Atk: 100, Def: 60, SpAtk: 170, SpDef 170, Int: 100]

[timid sundial]

gotta make denken part fighting

bro threw hands like nobody else

[normal pier]

nah, but I could give him Mach Punch as a levelup move

[timid sundial]

that was not a Mach punch he did

that was definitely a mega punch

(normal type move for some reason)

[normal pier]

nah, Mach Punch is much better

no better move to trow hands

or bullet punch

perhaps just give him every punch move cuz funny

or well almoust all

prolly should stay away from signature moves

actually

just close combat, no?

close combat should do the trick

hmm

giving Serie Sketch would be very thematic but also make her completely busted

[mental quarry]

This sucks

Just kidding

[normal pier]

[mental quarry]

Good work, Ham

[normal pier]

[fathom thunder]

What happend here

[normal pier]

not much

why you askin?

[fathom thunder]

Idk

[normal pier]

[normal pier]

but yea if any of you have suggestions I am happy to hear em

[normal pier]

same with giving Übel an OHKO move

btw, have we seen Land ever make a copy of another person?

not really right?

Illusion is kind of thematic but also not really

[thorny saddle]

i will be following this thread

[normal pier]

btw, to anyone who reads this, what ability of the ones I wrote for Flamme do you guys think makes the most sense?

ok, so changing Denken getting close combat to him getting a punch of punching moves with the hidden ability "Iron Fist"

[normal pier]

so yea, Turbo blaze is prolly the least powerful of these, Serene Grace is a good middle ground and Drought would prolly be the most busted of these

especially cause I am thinking of giving her Eruption

however I also think of giving her sacred fire

and with serene grace that shit goes hard

actually

I can give her 2 abilities

i though legendary pokemon don't get more than one

but some do have a hidden ability

[nimble bone]

hmm

[normal pier]

I am fearful of some of the mostrocities I create here, ngl

[normal pier]

@nimble bone so I have some inital stat spreads for them now

tho I kinda feel bad, cause some are just powercrept versions of existing mons

but hey, Frieren characters

[nimble bone]

thats fine

its nothing too serious anyways

[normal pier]

^^

[hasty rock]

[nimble bone]

Bars?

Anyways I got the main logic setup on spawning characters

its kinda rudimentary but https://github.com/TheOreoTM/friemon/blob/main/data/character/characters.go is how characters are created. But one thing i need to clear up is the stats calculation idk if this is the best formula. I googled around and found like 4 different ones but i settled on this

[normal pier]

ah I did give Himmel intrepid sword?

hmm

[hasty rock]

As a hidden ability

[normal pier]

I mean it is thematic

[hasty rock]

Yeah it definitely fits in my opinion

[normal pier]

oh yea I was missing a hidden Eisen ability

[normal pier]

it does, but it also clashes with Sharpness a lot

[thorny saddle]

If stone axe doesn't get used...

[normal pier]

it is worse sharpness in most cases

[thorny saddle]

Or iron bash

[normal pier]

pretty sure it will

oh ye I gave stark Behemoth blade, oooof

[thorny saddle]

Is Oreo trying to make like actual pokemon or are they doing some flexibility

[normal pier]

unsure, but they asked for pokemons to copy for the characters and I said I would have fun designing new fakemons

[thorny saddle]

Ye

I mightve said earlier but this thread will be very useful to me as well when I make my Frieren character battler

[normal pier]

you mean double Iron Bash btw?

sure, use as you like

and you can always ask for my opinion

[thorny saddle]

Maybe that too idk
I was thinking the one Aegislash has

[hasty rock]

Hidden abilities should be thematic right?

[normal pier]

I didn't worry about Stark that much, but now I think I may have overtuned him tbh

[normal pier]

don't have to, but I tried to keep most of them thematic

[hasty rock]

Stamina seems a really good fit for Eisen already

[normal pier]

while also giving specific playstiles

[hasty rock]

Like uh, other abilities would probably be useless

[normal pier]

oh yea def is

[normal pier]

not entierly, stamina is mostly good for some body press shenanigans

but we could give him another option in playstyles

[hasty rock]

I mean like, giving Eisen Battle Armor would be a waste

Idk if berry pouch or something could work because of Eisen loving grapes

[normal pier]

hmm not the worst idea, but it would prolly not be picked most of the time

[normal pier]

hmm

also a fun idea

[hasty rock]

Or Defiant

Maybe Sheer Force

[normal pier]

no

that is not an ability I will hand out easily

[hasty rock]

Defiant?

[hasty rock]

[normal pier]

oh wait

man I always confuse sheer force and huge power

actually guts may be a good fit

[hasty rock]

Right, Status conditions

[normal pier]

ye, he tanks those

[hasty rock]

Defense could work for Eisen too, like uh Marvel Scale

[normal pier]

I think most defensive ones are just second to stamina prob

[hasty rock]

Right

[normal pier]

just cause of body press

I think I will go with guts

[hasty rock]

Huge power and pure power do the same thing right?

[normal pier]

ye

one is just a bunny pun in japanese

so thats why only bunny pokemon have it

[hasty rock]

oh lol

[normal pier]

yes mega mawhile passed as a bunny

[hasty rock]

It has 2 large ''ears''

[normal pier]

yep

ok, Sein

my beloved

do I leave you at Friend Guard?

[hasty rock]

Eisen role
Sein my beloved

[hasty rock]

I got to search up what it does

[normal pier]

all of em are my beloveds

[hasty rock]

the only good answer:

[normal pier]

[hasty rock]

Ah I see, only usuable in double and team battles then right?

[normal pier]

yes

but very powerful in them

[hasty rock]

I think it fits him

[normal pier]

he is kinda already build as a double mon

[normal pier]

kind of

I was also thinking hospitality

or perhaps Regenerator

Regenerator is also usable in singles

but I am scared to give it to him

[hasty rock]

Hospitality could definitely work too, both reference Sein bailing Stark and the party

[hasty rock]

And yeah this would help to give Sein the possibility to function as its own mon

[hasty rock]

Why?

[normal pier]

well Supportive mons are always worse than non supportive ones in singles

[normal pier]

because I already made him into a stat buffed amoongus

and amoongus is a monstrocity

[hasty rock]

[normal pier]

one of the most consistently strong pokemon ever

the only stat I nerfed for Sein is the speed stat

[hasty rock]

Yeah that's fitting, same for Heiter

[normal pier]

amoongus has 30 and Sein has 40

[hasty rock]

Sein can run, Amoongus is a mushroom

[normal pier]

had to waste 10 statpoints

[hasty rock]

Man, trick room Priest Pokémon would be something

[normal pier]

well thing is at these low speeds having less is actually better

[normal pier]

oh I already gave some Trick Room

Denken I think

and Heiter/Sein might get em too

[hasty rock]

That would make them pretty powerful offensively too, Heiter mostly

[hasty rock]

But yeah I think Sein's abilities are fine

[normal pier]

prolly

but like the hidden one will prolly be his primarily used one

I only have this one shot

actually gonna make it hospitality

[hasty rock]

Yeah uh, I guess magic guard and magic bounce wouldn't work well eitehr

[normal pier]

it's the most thematic I feel like

actually not that I think about it

it's perfect

Sein comes into the story, heals, leaves

[normal pier]

ye, also Denken has one of them already

oh btw good that you mention it

I think I confused em for Denken

[hasty rock]

Manga spoilers:
Oh wait, magic bounce is basically ||Mistilziela||?

[normal pier]

ye

[hasty rock]

I wonder what Macht would be then, hypothetically

[normal pier]

oh I have ideas already

[hasty rock]

Wonder Guard Immortal Böse is too much isn't it?

[normal pier]

yes

[hasty rock]

I mean, fairy and fighting would be effective

Nah nvm I won't try to argue for it

[normal pier]

good

I will prolly not be handing out Huge/Pure Power and wonder guard

unless for very good reasons

and with some restrictions

man the more I think about it Stark is prolly not ok

[hasty rock]

Another pretty random mention, Iris could have Immunity

[hasty rock]

Lemme take a look

Or well, my sense of power creep is clearly too far out there so maybe I shouldn't 🤐

[normal pier]

oh go take a look at the monster I created

[normal pier]

Primarily I want you to look at Stone Axe, Bitter Blade and Behemoth Blade

[hasty rock]

Okay so:

Stone Axe is an approximately base 100 attack that sets up stealth rock
Bitter Blade is base 135 attack that gives half the damage it dealt back to the user as heal
Behemoth Blade is base 100 that does double damage against dyna-/gigantamax pokemon

[normal pier]

dyna giga isn't important

also I think you forgot a 50 there

[hasty rock]

OH WAIT

lmfao yeah

[normal pier]

[hasty rock]

Yeah Stark especially in comparison with Fern and Sein is OP

[normal pier]

and like He is a medium fast bulky attacker with a 135 healing move

[hasty rock]

yes

[normal pier]

Heiter?

[hasty rock]

*Sein

[normal pier]

ah ye

[hasty rock]

[normal pier]

unsure

I did give Fern some dumb stuff as well

and I mean they all will get more moves obviously

[hasty rock]

I like how different the starters all are

Sein is basically stall, Stark is a bulky attacker and Fern is a fast attacker

[normal pier]

yep

[hasty rock]

Stark is a titanium nuke

albeit a slow-moving one

Übel and Land must be a bit difficult

[normal pier]

kinda

[hasty rock]

Double team would probably make sense for Land right?

[normal pier]

for Übel I thought I would lean into the no guard hard

[normal pier]

prolly

disguise is already great

I prolly cut Illusion

it sounds thematic but isn't

or well

[hasty rock]

Yeah Land doesn't really copy anyone else, just himself

[normal pier]

ye

and like disguise is an amazing ability

and shed tail is great as well

[hasty rock]

Oh yeah definitely

[normal pier]

tho he doesn't have that much HP to make use of it

may bump that a tiny amount

we'll see

@nimble bone hey you think you can handle some minor custom moves? I think I need Stark to have some less dumb ones

[hasty rock]

[normal pier]

bitter blade being 90 is kinda crazy ngl

[hasty rock]

I feel like you can remove bitter blade (would help a bit in nerfing him), I don't think Stark has been shown to be able to do anything like that, right?

[normal pier]

well he is resiliant

but yea I would prolly remove the drain effect

I generally just wanted to have a steel and a fire sharpness boosted move

turns out the only steel and fire moves boosted by sharpness are very strong signature moves

[hasty rock]

This is like when those scientists created Mewtwo

[normal pier]

Might make bitter blade just 90 without any additional effects

[hasty rock]

Yeah that makes it more fair

[normal pier]

and perhaps make a 120 base power steel move that is affected by sharpness that lovers attack by 2 stages

[hasty rock]

[normal pier]

oh speaking of 120 bp moves that lover the attacking stat by 2 stages

look at Make it Rain, thats one move I wanna give Macht

oh and look at the ability of the associated pokemon

[hasty rock]

There is actually a Pokémon associated with gold?!

What are the chances

[normal pier]

I think giving Stark a nuke that leaves him weak after is pretty fitting

[normal pier]

^^

[normal pier]

btw funny story about this ability

it also makes you immune to allied pokemons status moves

[normal pier]

^^

I think it is fairly fitting

[hasty rock]

Yeah I agree

[normal pier]

prolly will make him physical tho

[hasty rock]

I mean I can see Macht as a physical and special attacker

[normal pier]

ye but right now we have a lack of physical attackers

and he fights more with a sword

[hasty rock]

That's what you get in a series about mages

[normal pier]

but make it rain is thematic and with a decent special attack still usable cause it won't lower attack when used

like how some physical dragons still use draco meteor

[hasty rock]

Manga spoilers:
Had Sheer Cold been something like gold, it would be perfect ||for Macht using Diagoldze on a person,|| I think

[hasty rock]

oh yeah definitely

[hasty rock]

There's the Shadow Warriors too that could maybe be added

---

Manga spoilers:
||Hero of the South, Rivale and|| Linie too

[normal pier]

oh I will add a lot more

[normal pier]

oh I have plans for Linie

diabolical plans

[hasty rock]

[normal pier]

Transformation plans

[hasty rock]

lmfao

[normal pier]

not as an ability tho

just the move

[hasty rock]

[normal pier]

however I will give her stuff to setup

and decent HP

so if you don't stop her

and she yanks a good mon on your side

[hasty rock]

If only the canonical Linie had that

It reminds me of the Spiegel too, but I don't think that one can be added

[normal pier]

ye

perhaps

[hasty rock]

The Spiegel is basically a trainer

[normal pier]

[hasty rock]

I mean, I guess Serie is like Mewtwo too then, a pokémon and a trainer, with own Pokémon (First-Class Mages)

[normal pier]

they don't have to be perfect representations

[hasty rock]

Right, just found some of the connections funny

[normal pier]

I try to give them fun nods as much as I can

[hasty rock]

Maybe this should be limited to just physical attackers though

[normal pier]

hmm, is it mentioned that it doesn't work on mages?

[hasty rock]

Not that I recall, but Linie becoming like, Serie, is uh 😅

[normal pier]

well

than that is kind your fault for allowing it to happen

[hasty rock]

Doesn't Sketch kind of fit Linie too?

[normal pier]

hmm

[hasty rock]

Copying moves...

[normal pier]

kinda, yea

[hasty rock]

Or well, I guess copycat could work too iirc

[normal pier]

but I think it's too strong to give to her

[normal pier]

uh that is a good thematic addition

[hasty rock]

Will Linie copy the enemy's stats too?

Because in the anime/manga, she doesn't

[normal pier]

yes

[normal pier]

she does somewhat

[hasty rock]

[hasty rock]

Technique yes, but she doesn't have the same strength of a swing like say, Eisen

[normal pier]

not as busted as you may think

[normal pier]

I think she mentions also having his strength, but I am unsure

how I remember it was that she doesn't have the same experience and the original but I may remember wrong

nah wiki says otherwise

oops

but yea, Sketch in pokemon is kinda stronger than transform funnily enough

[hasty rock]

These panels probably summarize it very quickly

[hasty rock]

Sketch probably got a buff with gen 9

Because before that, I don't think there were that many moves that sketch could really like, takeover

[normal pier]

????

um

[hasty rock]

Okay wait let me rephrase that-

[normal pier]

signature moves have always existed

[hasty rock]

Gen 9 gave more regular Pokémon more powerful moves

[normal pier]

and the most busted move smeargle ever got was created in gen 4

[normal pier]

kinda

it kinda only really gave legendary move privileges to normal mons

to give them a relevant niche

and considering that Sketch is on a not very offensive pokemon

[hasty rock]

Yeah Smeargle itself holds it back a lot

[normal pier]

having slightly stronger offensive moves really don't help much

[normal pier]

well that is by design

[hasty rock]

Yeah, just like with the new gen 9 pokémon

[normal pier]

oh I adore them

have I introduced you to Clodsire?

[hasty rock]

[normal pier]

ah I see

you are already in the know

but yea

there is only very few mons I don't actually like in that gen

it's my favorite pokedex imma be real

[normal pier]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-rika-wooper-clodsire-pokemon-scarlet-and-violet-gif-27308996

oh

btw

look what I got in Japan

[hasty rock]

I remember this I think

[normal pier]

ah

[hasty rock]

Whimsicott and Clodsire

https://tenor.com/view/clodsire-pokemon-scarlet-and-violet-pokemon-gif-27263018

[normal pier]

yep

two of my favorite mons

didn't find my number 1 tho

but ey

still a good haul

[hasty rock]

What's your first?

[normal pier]

Volcarona

[hasty rock]

Oh right wait, you told me that before but I forgor

[normal pier]

no worries

I forgot I told you as well

[hasty rock]

[normal pier]

man

[hasty rock]

Ah yeah it was this:

[normal pier]

gen 9 would have been a banger if it where released around this time

[normal pier]

ah thank you for your kind reactions

[hasty rock]

[normal pier]

imagine

2.5 years more development

5 whole frames more in a second

only half as many camera gliches

[hasty rock]

[normal pier]

I am joking

they would prolly have achieved more in that time

houses you can break in

[hasty rock]

How much development time did Scarlet and Violet have? Comparable to the previous games?

^ My little brother has Scarlet and Violet, I haven't even finished Legends Arceus yet though

I am truly out of touch

[normal pier]

2 years

200 developers

tho they did outsource the pokemon model upgrades

and those look very nice

[hasty rock]

Do you have both by the way?

[normal pier]

btw the first pokemon games had 6 years of development

[normal pier]

nah just violet

[normal pier]

tho a smaller team obviously

[hasty rock]

I guess that makes it more fair

[normal pier]

silver and gold had around 3 years

[normal pier]

kind of

first gen also had to invent a lot of groundwork for the series

tho gen 9 had to move to an open world

not to mention simmilar struggles with size of the project and capabilities of the system they are on

[hasty rock]

Probably same thing as X&Y then?

^ Of course to a larger scale

[normal pier]

all in all Scarlet and Violet where fucked over by the development time

[normal pier]

somewhat yea

let's look at their development time

around 3 years it seems

[hasty rock]

yeah

[normal pier]

ah seems my developer count was wrong

wiki for XY states about 500 where involved

prolly 200 are main gamefreak employees

but yea, gamefreak hasn't really grown since

and yea, Legends Arceus and Scarlet and Violet where developed simultaneously

so not even full capacity

[hasty rock]

Okay yeah that's uh...

[normal pier]

that is also the reason why when people say "why didn't they just take the legends arceus ball trowing mechanic and stuff?"

well cause they only had one year to put that stuff in after seeing how the reception was

a lot of features missing and people always say "why did they remove it?"

well they didn't put it in in the first place

ah man

talking about the topic makes me sad

as a wannabe game dev

well

at least gamefreak seems to hire new staff now

and hearing how Legends Z-A is still some time to go gives me hope

also I hope Ishikawa stays

I gaslight myself into thinking she is the reason Scarlet and Violets story is so good

also I should prolly be off

stressed my little data enough I feel like

internet in 3 days prayge

[hasty rock]

Cya then ham

I am probably also going to sleep

[nimble bone]

Sure yeah, as long as it's nothing too complicated

[nimble bone]

Actually I think it should be fine even if it's a bit complicated

Since I haven't started on the battle logic I can write around whatever idea u have

[thorny saddle]

turn based rpg code architecture
i am VERY interested in this conversation

[normal pier]

do you want to make that from scratch?

you could prolly make use of the pokemon showdown/smogon github

not sure tho

but some pokemon battle logic is a bit tricky

also I might be able to help with the logic

I know it prolly a bit better than you

I am a programmer as well after all

[nimble bone]

I kinda have to since I don't think their is a golang library for Pokémon battling

The bot is made with golang

[normal pier]

sure, but I think you can prolly make use of the showdown git

[nimble bone]

Lemme look at it

I didn't know it was open source

2800 lines of code

I've been looking at be poketwo code as of now

https://github.com/poketwo/poketwo/blob/master/cogs/battling.py

[nimble bone]

@normal pier also i noticed that you didnt make a spd stat but instead have an intelligence stat. are we not gonna use speed?

Top Because im tired of scrolling to the top

[hasty rock]

I am just now realizing that every time I mentioned speed, I meant intelligence

[nimble bone]

whats the difference

im always used to hearing speed

[hasty rock]

Intelligence doesn't exist in Pokémon so I just confused it with Speed on instinct :/

[nimble bone]

oh so the Int stat is just Spd

[hasty rock]

I read it like that but...

[nimble bone]

im so confused lol

i just added whatever ham set as Int as Spd in the character sheet

[hasty rock]

I think that's fine, otherwise ham could respond and specify

[hasty rock]

https://github.com/TheOreoTM/friemon/tree/main
Should this be put here too?

[nimble bone]

perhaps

[nimble bone]

yes hello

https://github.com/TheOreoTM/friemon/blob/main/entities/move.go

i require ur assistance

with how to declare a move

so that i can fit all the data required to make a move function properly

ive been referring pokemon-showdown/data/moves.ts to get the data but they have a lot of fields on MoveData which i think i dont need.

[normal pier]

that is correct, sorry thats from the german "initiative" "int" I did stop myself from writing "KP" instead of "HP", but didn't notice the mistake with int

[nimble bone]

Oh

No problem

[nimble bone]

[normal pier]

ah, in a few days

hopefully I will get an internet connection the day after tomorrow

than I can properly work from home

also I will look into it but I may have a nice custom ability for Fern

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1292254586018594847/1292254586257801237/sense_dance_sticker.gif

[nimble bone]

why does stark look so goofy

anyways

This is what I got up to today

[thorny saddle]

When the stark is resolute

[normal pier]

ayy

gettin somewhere

ah so you are making a discord bot?

might be able to use some of the pokemon discord bot as well

at least to get like other pokemon in there

or you want it to be just frieren characters?

ah we can just use the german pokemon names, than they are frieren characters

[nimble bone]

Starting off that way yes

Because less code

[normal pier]

I see

ok

[nimble bone]

And yeah this will be easy to add

[normal pier]

weeeeeeell

there is 1000 pokemon

[nimble bone]

Not to worry I have a CSV of a few hundred Pokémon (the ones in poketwo) with all the base stats, names and everything

I can just loop through that

[normal pier]

I see, and the structure on how you save them and how poketwo saves them is the same?

[nimble bone]

I can just map the stuff I want

[normal pier]

true I guess

[nimble bone]

https://github.com/TheOreoTM/friemon/blob/main/entities/characters.go

https://github.com/TheOreoTM/friemon/blob/main/entities/character.go

[normal pier]

yepyep, took a look already

[nimble bone]

So yeah

I can't get the poketwo link on mobile

Holdon

Bc it was an old commit

Oh btw I don't think I'm using a suitable formula for stat calculations

Bc it doesnt take into account ev

https://github.com/poketwo/data/tree/758aa829b8223418ea92e48dce78fd885f0b9f04

[normal pier]

[nimble bone]

the csv files

[normal pier]

ok I have looked a bit into https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/tree/master

I think this is prolly the best place to rip battle logic from

this prolly means we need to rework how you save your mon, but using .ts files should work pretty easily with discord bots

aren't they in js even?

bulbasaur: {
        num: 1,
        name: "Bulbasaur",
        types: ["Grass", "Poison"],
        genderRatio: {M: 0.875, F: 0.125},
        baseStats: {hp: 45, atk: 49, def: 49, spa: 65, spd: 65, spe: 45},
        abilities: {0: "Overgrow", H: "Chlorophyll"},
        heightm: 0.7,
        weightkg: 6.9,
        color: "Green",
        evos: ["Ivysaur"],
        eggGroups: ["Monster", "Grass"],
    },```

this also seems pretty workable

just need to find all needed files rip them and modify them slightly to fit our needs

gen 9 battle logic obviously I would say

[nimble bone]

Hm

I can rewrite the bot in ts

[normal pier]

I don't think that is nessecary

you can access ts files from js I am pretty sure

like build in

no library needed

ts files are only save files to begin with I think

[nimble bone]

well im not using js or ts in the bot yet

so wont it be easier if i just start off with ts?

if we are using ts/js

[normal pier]

what is the bot written in than?

I thought I remember discord bots being written in js

[nimble bone]

JS is the best language to write bots in

[normal pier]

but I guess I am wrong on that

ah but you can use others?

[nimble bone]

but im tryna learn Go so im making this one in Go

[normal pier]

uuh

perhaps go can also read ts files

let's see

[nimble bone]

yeah theres a library for almost every popular language

[normal pier]

I see

hmm

seems there are libraries that can work with ts for go

but they seem to be under construction

so may not be the best option

I can look if there is another pokemon battle logic git out there

but smogon might be the best

https://github.com/StevensSEC/pokemonbattlelib/blob/main/pokemon.go

not sure how reliable this one is, but it may be workable

[nimble bone]

ill look into it

if its mid ill just port over the ts code to go

[normal pier]

I am looking over it and some coding decisions seem sus to me

also it's 3 years old

meaning it's def not gen 9

[normal pier]

(tho I am not a great programmer myself so that may just be a wrong hunch)

but like they save all the types as strings

and like I mean thats fine

but code intern you don't really need it

you only need a small int

actually

I may have read this wrongly

I am not familliar with go

but yea, prolly best to work with the pokemon showdown battle logic

it's def the most widely used

[nimble bone]

did any basic battle logic change in gen 9?

[normal pier]

hmm

well the new gimmic mostly

and some tweaks to effects and such

some new abilites/moves

obviously new pokemon

reworked the hail weather condition to snow

anything else?

it's all stuff you could prolly get done fairly easily once you understand how they implemented the battle logic

what I am mostly worried about with them is that they may have tried to implement the pokemon battle logic but work differently in some edge cases

[nimble bone]

alright

[normal pier]

cause they are a relatively small team

[nimble bone]

the git repo says "simulate battles accurately" so i would hope that they atleast did that

but what im thinking is

if we arent using any gen 9 moves

we can just use the Go implementation

and then add on it

by looking at the showdown code

[normal pier]

well I had already made use of some gen 9 stuff

but prolly all things you can implement rater easily

[nimble bone]

ah

[normal pier]

"good as gold" that I had in mind for Macht may be tricky

depends on how they make it work tho

[normal pier]

ok

so I got cloned both repositories for now

lemme make a Pro vs Con list for them

[normal pier]

Pokemonbattlelib:
Pros:
- probably easier to build into your current discord bot framework
- seems to be a bit simpler in it's coding so we may be able to grasp how it works faster
Cons:
- not completely up to date on current Pokemon, moves, abilities or logic
- may not be bug free
- may not completely replicate Pokemon battle logic (such as the speed stat being changed mid turn and adjusting turn order)

Pokemon Showdown:
Pros:
- up to date
- actively maintained, meaning bugs on their part will prolly be fixed if there are any left, new stuff will be added rather quickly
- pretty much flawless replication of Pokemon battle logic
- probably easier to implement new things due to it's inherent need to be flexible
Cons:
- harder to implement in current bot framework (I was wrong ts is a language it's not just the pokemon safedata, everything is in ts)
- alternatively full rework to build the bot in ts, meaning you won't train go programming
- May be less readable and harder to get into due to it's flexible and more complex programming

@nimble bone

we can also look if there is something else, but I think for another Go framework there will prolly be simmilar Pro's/Con's

[nimble bone]

There aren't any good go repos

I checked

[normal pier]

ye

but I think the battle lib should be workable

we just may have to retroactively fix more stuff

[nimble bone]

Also I think it's best to port th showdown code bc the go code is all over the place

[normal pier]

or well we build our own based on showdown

[nimble bone]

It's hard to read ngl

[nimble bone]

Ye

[normal pier]

so I was actually wrong

[nimble bone]

I literally couldn't find the main logic loop for battles

[normal pier]

I found it

[nimble bone]

Which file was it in

[normal pier]

battle_round.go in the base directory

[nimble bone]

Hmm alright

[normal pier]

or well that is like the main round processing function

but like yea there are a bunch of test files

that may or may not be relevant

like

[normal pier]

yea I guess this is the best option if you want to stay in go

[nimble bone]

I think it would be easier to just port the typescript code

Bc there is a lot of underlying logic and stuff in the go repo

[normal pier]

ye

are there good porting tools? or you think doing it by hand is better?

[nimble bone]

I think the only option is doing it by hand

There's a tool to convert ts types to go types

That's the only thing I can think of

[normal pier]

hmhm

so first step is gathering the needed files

[nimble bone]

The battle logic is in one file for showdown

So it should be easy

[normal pier]

sure but it makes use of other functions, no?

I mean I guess we can just go by dependencies of battle.ts

and their dependencies recursively obviously

[nimble bone]

Yeah it shouldn't be that hard

The code is pretty well structured

[normal pier]

yea it is def competently coded

actually

lemme have a quick lookie

[thorny saddle]

Hamdepaf you program too?

[normal pier]

//all the imports from outside the sim directory:

//imports from /lib:
utils.ts
streams.ts
fs.ts

//imports from /data:
tags.ts

//imports I haven't located:
path
assert

[normal pier]

yes I just started a "digital media and games" study

[thorny saddle]

Oh cool! New to the field or nah

[normal pier]

and previously studies IT for 3 years but gave up on that cause I couldn't find my fooding

[normal pier]

nope

I think I have now about 7 years of IT experience

tho like

[thorny saddle]

It is growing way faster rn I think

I'm considering

[normal pier]

sometimes more sometimes less active

[thorny saddle]

That's cool though!

[nimble bone]

Almost all of these imports we won't need

Most of those are just streaming data to the connected clients

And rng bot stuff

Since we are doing player v player we won't need to do any ai player

[normal pier]

I dunno, ai player might be fun

but we can add that later if we want to

[nimble bone]

How would it work

It would either be really op or stupid

[normal pier]

[nimble bone]

Bc either it picks the perfect counters for the players picks

Or random everything

[normal pier]

like normal pokemon, no?

nah, bots in pokemon are generally worse than humans

unless they cheat

and know what your move is

[normal pier]

oh yea, no

you can make an Ai that has as much information as the player without being entierly random in their approach

also like

they literally made an Ai for us

so we just have to port it

no need to make it ourselves

[thorny saddle]

There's also the option of letting the bot cheat but not be smart

[normal pier]

yea

that is also always an option

[nimble bone]

I see

I've never made an ai before

[normal pier]

can range from simple to very complex

^^

also I missed a bunch of imports that are still internally inside the sim directory

cause they where in the tools directory, they pointed to ../ meaning sim directory

[nimble bone]

Anyways I'll start work on it probably tmr

[normal pier]

also removed the random ai, but it also just needs the ObjectReadWriteStream

[normal pier]

sure, imma hop in when I find the time

I am not used to go programming, so I will prolly let you do the groundwork if that is aright

[nimble bone]

Makes sense

Go should be pretty easy to pick up if u know C

[normal pier]

yea I am familiar

[normal pier]

ok, I shrank down the scope again

[nimble bone]

utils.ts is probably the only one I'll need port

[normal pier]

not sure

the steams might be the whole thing running that shit

not sure

but I can't track down the path and assert files right now

where ya hiding pretties?

oh wait

there is an assert.js file in the test directory

[nimble bone]

Hmm

[normal pier]

so perhaps something we need to define ourselves anyways

actually, that test is completely .js

huh

well anyways

for now let's just see how we can make the sim folder work

[nimble bone]

Ye

[normal pier]

ok I made a folder with most of the interconnected files for now

should I push that to firemon?

should I make a new branch?

[thorny saddle]

Make a submodule

[normal pier]

never done that, no clue how

actually might have

and just don't remember

[thorny saddle]

It is not good advice for this case lol

[nimble bone]

Pull request probably

[normal pier]

no I meant as in should I make a new branch, so that stuff isn't in main

dunno how you want your workflow

keeping all these things nice and seperated is important if multiple people work on it

[nimble bone]

i mean its fine

since i dont think u are able to actually push to my repo

its just ur fork right

[normal pier]

um unsure, I think when I try to push it will be a push request send to you

unless you made the mistake and the whole thing is openly editable

[nimble bone]

it probably isnt

probably

surely not

its the default settings

so yeah

[normal pier]

well it's a seperate folder, so it's not so bad

imma just push it to main

ah yea, asks me to make a fork cause I don't have permission

you wanna give me permission, so you have the files nice and easy? or just do it yourselves?

[thorny saddle]

usually people make forks and then open a pull request

[normal pier]

I see

[nimble bone]

ye ^

[normal pier]

oki

there, pull request is out

[nimble bone]

hmm wont this throw an error inside the go project tho?

bc its not a typescript project

[normal pier]

shouldn't

I mean depends on your coding program I guess

but like

in the end those are just files for now

[nimble bone]

alright lemme see

[thorny saddle]

whats the repo

lemme follow

[normal pier]

https://github.com/TheOreoTM/friemon

[thorny saddle]

thanks

[nimble bone]

should probably import the types too

[normal pier]

oh oops

[thorny saddle]

right side view explorer

huh

[normal pier]

fairly common

[nimble bone]

yeah so the code doesnt move when i collapse the explorer

[thorny saddle]

ohhh yeah no i can see that

also have it aligned

[normal pier]

uuh shmart

[thorny saddle]

lemme know something i can do

i wanna assist at least briefly

[normal pier]

[normal pier]

ideas and feedback to the friemon concepts are always helpful

[thorny saddle]

im not too well-hearsed in pokemon to begin with

[normal pier]

I see

no worries

just having ideas on concepts is also helpful

like giving Denken a Physical punching niche

[thorny saddle]

"not out of options"

can use when all other moves have no PP

[normal pier]

that is generally struggle, what where you thinking about?

[thorny saddle]

oh yeah

maybe denken's struggle is just renamed as an easter egg

[normal pier]

ooh

that would be fun as well

but we already have something for this easter egg

[thorny saddle]

ooh what

[normal pier]

Denken: Psychic
-Abilities: Magic Bounce, Telepathie
-Hidden Ability: Iron Fist
-Attacks: [most punching moves exempt from some signature moves], instruct, Trick Room, Calm Mind
[Hp: 110, Atk: 85, Def: 80, SpAtk: 120, SpDef 85, Int: 30]

[thorny saddle]

flamme should have barrier

[normal pier]

these are not all finished yet

[thorny saddle]

for sure

oh ok

[normal pier]

I just picked some things I tought would make thematic sense

[thorny saddle]

are some mons going to have moves by default

[normal pier]

well the learn set, yea

[thorny saddle]

sure

yeah the defaults arent as important as the learn set

is there an editable doc or something for comments

[normal pier]

defaults?

defaults are level 1 learnset moves for the most part

[thorny saddle]

ye like pidgey always has tackle

[normal pier]

oh actually they aren't level one

[thorny saddle]

im assuming some of these will also have a base level
itd be weird to have level 1 serie i think

[normal pier]

hmhm

more like base 0

pidgey learnset for example

only move it has guaranteed is tackle

[thorny saddle]

its listed as level 1 on bulbapedia but for practical purposes it doesnt really matter

[normal pier]

yea it doesn't

[nimble bone]

surely i can do this?

[nimble bone]

okay i can probably use better emojis

well anyways

if you guys want to change an emoji just send it here

or make a pr with the updated id and link of the emoji https://github.com/TheOreoTM/friemon/blob/main/entities/sprites.go

-> https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1157066757018746980.webp?size=128&quality=lossless

so that i can download it

[normal pier]

[nimble bone]

okay im having a hard time adding moves

https://github.com/TheOreoTM/friemon/blob/main/entities/moves.go

As for the unique logic for some moves ill just have a method on each move called something like Attack() or something

where it does some stuff and returns some data

so that will be easy

but the porting moves is kinda annoying

[normal pier]

I can look into that

maybe we can have a small custom bot run over it

[nimble bone]

maybe

anyways ill work on the other systems first

like character selection, leveling etc

[nimble bone]

Leveling works

and stats change properly

[normal pier]

[nimble bone]

i think now i have to start making battle logic

[normal pier]

I do have time atm, so if you wanna work on it together, hit me up

[nimble bone]

yeah i would like that

what do u think is the easiest way to port the moves?

[normal pier]

ok lemme take a looksie

so, first up we should prolly decide on how we want to save the data

I don't really know what .go has for options

but it does prolly have like a standart file format it can easily read, no?

[nimble bone]

i mean go is pretty flexible

it can read json and csv

there isnt a standard file format tho

[normal pier]

ok, but .json should prolly be workable

[nimble bone]

ye

[normal pier]

especially cause the "moves.ts" file is like a few steps from just being a .json file, no?

actually

no it's not that easy

hmm

[nimble bone]

ye they have custom functions and types in there

[normal pier]

I am currently just trying the idea of just making it a go file

and that works... surprisingly well, ngl

the syntax is pretty simmilar

and I just changed all ' to " cause go seem to not use '

and

the programm sees no fault with the file

that seems kinda insane to me

actually

something did go awry

ok

only 2 cases of pretty easy fixes

ah, no there is more

this shockingly works

I mean we prolly still have to like fit it for our own needs

but like

it seems to be able to be used pretty much as is

Imma push it so you can look at it

put it in my pokemon showdownts directory for now

[nimble bone]

hmm

[normal pier]

so how pokemon showdown seems to handle it is make a Moves object that has the moves as a MoveDataTable object with all the moves in it

[nimble bone]

yeah

[normal pier]

what I did for now is leave it as is

and just changed the ' Strings to " Strings

and some of the previous ' Strings has " as a symbol for '

so I canged those to '

like 'King"s Shield'

after I changed all ' to " it obviously made problems

so I went through the file and found all places where Strings flowed over

weirdest occurrence was a "King\"s Shield"

[nimble bone]

and it just works?

[normal pier]

well

I mean I don't have .go code to try

but like

vs code says

"seems like a legit go file"

[nimble bone]

if it doesnt show an error it will work

[normal pier]

which is kinda crazy

[nimble bone]

anyways this is how pokemonbattlelib stores their data

a ton of csv files

[normal pier]

hmhm

[nimble bone]

but its just weird stuff like this

idk why u need an entire csv file for this

[normal pier]

uum

style

but yea, you should have a pull request to look into the file yourself

[nimble bone]

okay so

Go LSP is weird

notice how there is a red line under export

go doesnt have an export keyword

so thats an error

but for some reason

go doesnt show anyother errors until u fix that error

yeah its not that easy to convert this to Go compatible code

and the text is too large to use the tool that converts ts to go

is there a json file with all the move data somewhere on github?

[normal pier]

oh yea, no I just left that to however you wanted to structure it

[nimble bone]

Go cant do json inside the code

so

[normal pier]

hmm

ah no

don't make it a string

doesn't something like var moves = { "10000000voltthunderbolt": { work?

unless you can't make such an object

but as go seems to be type insensitive

shouldn't that be possible?

[nimble bone]

go is very type sensitive

you cant make an object like you can in js

[normal pier]

didn't you write the "var"?

yea

you don't declare a type to be int or string

the language handles that

thats what being type insensitive means I think

[nimble bone]

yeah but it wont infer the type

[normal pier]

hmm

[nimble bone]

It only infers basic types

It's not like typescript

[normal pier]

hmm

yea I need to learn a bit more go to be of big use here

[normal pier]

@nimble bone ok, I have an idea

can you like figure out how you want your moves to be saved?

while keeping in mind they also need unique functions saved with them

and I will then figure out how to modify the file with regex to fit that format

that is something I can do

and like

in the worst case I can do all by hand

not the first time I did something like that

[nimble bone]

Probably how I'm storing them right now

Using go structs

Which are I guess classes

Not really but that's the closest explanation

And that allows me to add unique functionality to them

Bc each move will have a .Attack() method

Which can be overriden

[normal pier]

ok, I'll see what I can do

should they be stored in an array?

/list

[nimble bone]

No

Bc I'm adding moves by putting the full struct inside the character moves list

[normal pier]

can you make like 2 example moves in your moves.go file, so I can look at it?

oh wait

you want it to be just 1 massive struct?

hmmm

[nimble bone]

Each move one struct

[nimble bone]

I did I think

Is it not there

https://github.com/TheOreoTM/friemon/blob/main/entities/moves.go

[thorny saddle]

what typescript stuff needs to be done

[normal pier]

well we have the problem that the best pokemon battle logic library out there is written in typescript while Oreo is writing their bot in go

[thorny saddle]

oh the bot is in go

are they converting to go or just using both

[normal pier]

we decided to convert the ts library to go

[nimble bone]

Okay so,
To make things simpler and more manageable

1. First we convert the important base logic for battles.
2. At first only try to keep things simple, so maybe till like gen 6
3. Get things working first and then add gen 9 stuff

What do we think about this?

[normal pier]

ah sorry I wasn't able to think much about this project the last week

hmm, the battle logic in itself hasn't really changed much since generation 6

only 3 new gimmics 2 of which have already been removed again

[nimble bone]

The Question: Should Friemon focus on intense 1v1 battles with incredibly deep and complex characters, or stick with team-based combat where you build squads of 3?

Why I'm considering 1v1:

• I could make each character WAY more complex and unique
• Battles would be faster and more intense (3-5 minutes vs 10-15 minutes)
• Much easier for me to balance and polish to perfection
• Creates clearer skill expression - your wins are purely about mastering your character
• Could launch much sooner with higher quality

What we'd lose:

• Team composition strategy
• Character synergies and combos between teammates
• The need to collect multiple characters for different team roles

What we'd gain:

• Each character could have multiple fighting stances, complex ability trees, and unique mechanics
• Deep mastery systems where you unlock new abilities by getting good with a character
• Every character pick feels super meaningful

What do you think? Would you rather have 3v3 team strategy, or 1v1 battles where each character is incredibly deep and complex?

Drop your thoughts below

And for those confused on what friemon is, its basically a pokemon x frieren discord bot where u collect characters. train then and fight other users (exactly like pokemon yes)

[wanton vector]

I like 3v3 because the TCG in a sense already captures a 1v1 experience so I want to see a more team-based take on a fan game

[nimble bone]

Yeah I was gonna say a 1v1 is too close to tcg

[wanton vector]

I also feel like 1v1 does put constraints on balancing since each character has to be viable in a sense

Whereas in teams you’re essentially allowed to have more “one-dimensional” roles that don’t have to stand on their own

Like Sein and Heiter work better thematically in actual teams than as individual fighters for example

[cloud trail]

Also having 3v3 but with simpler characters also probably would make it easier to include more characters, like simpler side characters that don't have much room to stand as full tcg kits

think your ||shadow warriors|| or lange or voll etc

or heiter yeah

[safe ravine]

Exactly what I was thinkin

[wanton vector]

Yeah and even simple characters can have complex dynamics in the context of team composition

[nimble bone]

Thanks

[normal pier]

making 4 person teams would fit with Frierens 4 party members theme

[safe ravine]

Fair enough, but 3 matches up with the exam

[wanton vector]

So is the game going to be Pokémon with a Frieren skin or are there going to be unique mechanics?

[nimble bone]

There are a few unique mechanics right now and I'm planning on adding more after I iron out some bugs in the battle system

[fallen flume]

Whimiscott also does a lot of stuff with tailwind which idk if this has yet so

Maybe Länge as a pseudo whimiscott could work tho whims relies a ton on focus sash + prankster

[normal pier]

remind me what Länges powers are

[fallen flume]

Jackshit but she had a star theme going on