ark-2

[blissful perch]

The question I feel is best boiled down to “does TLC add depth to a creature that allows it to fill a unique niche in either the tame or wild creature roster?” - if it’s just to respond to powercreep for example I see it as a failure

But in this case, the spider was basically a 2016 creature that limped its way into 2026 and was in dire need of some flavor of upgrade from what was basically a grounded “tiny garbage cave creature”

[mystic wharf]

Araneo is so boring for me i wanted other creatures

[winged dome]

I think Araneo is a good example of 'creature condensation', which I believe we'll see more in Ark2

What I mean is, it took things other creatures can do and smooshed them all into one creature that can fulfill multiple niches. It can torpor like a Scorpion, mobility like a Ravager and Megalania, grapple and swing like a Bloodstalker (though to a much less degree) - this could potentially allow those other creatures to be dropped for brand new creatures for Ark2

Hit mammals and reptiles with a few of these condensations and I wouldn't be surprised if the roster could be cut in half without much, if any, loss in mechanics/roles

[rare rock]

theri is getting a tlc this pains me everytime , of all creatures we get this already op guy?

[winged dome]

Might not get too much aside from a model update, but who knows 🤷

[blissful perch]

I think the quality > quantity argument certainly rings true if this is the new standard for a creature, though I’d also push back a pinch and say that I think what could set Ark 2 apart is having a diverse and mechanically deep roster that has creatures with similar but not identical roles for players to toy around with

While it’s true there are shared traits with other creatures, what rings true here is that the spider is definitely a unique blend of these traits such that it isn’t just “small bloodstalker”

[blissful perch]

Tbh I also see this as a mistake, since other creatures need it more urgently. But it’s also Ark famous so I’m not shocked it won the vote

[untold ingot]

Ideally we get both quality and quantity

[mystic wharf]

Araneo is a joke

[vernal glen]

Tbh theri alr op, MAINLY it alr had one TLC

[rare rock]

yeah exactly what I’m on about

[rare rock]

then it’s a waste , a big fat waste of a tlc on the theri. There’s so many other Dino’s that need it more than this guy bro

[rare rock]

also exactly what I’m saying. And I am surprised, ark fans are stupid (respectfully and playfully)

[winged dome]

Wholeheartedly agree. Dozens of creatures deserve it more, but Theri got the votes because it's popular

Araneo and Megalosaurus were the only ones that won that actually need a TLC

[rare rock]

what about our big shy flyer ?

in my opinion its the one that deserves it the most out of all, and the one I am most excited for

[winged dome]

I think Quetz is in a decent spot already, but I don't usually use fliers anyway as they trivialize the vast majority of content

[untold ingot]

I want the better quetz.

[blissful perch]

Prioritizing quality over quantity I agree should hopefully not mean entirely sacrificing quantity of content

[blissful perch]

Agree on issue of fliers

[blissful perch]

Gamers often don’t know what they really want . What I do want to caution is that TLC and “op” imo shouldn’t be used together

TLC is about creating depth to a creature that has seen its comparative quality drop over the years as WC and Ark have grown more complex. A balance pass is how you’d expect to handle creature viabilities and “the meta”

Part of why imo theri is a bad pick is because it’s already a complex creature. It has multiple attacks, harvesting and combat roles, and an entire separate level up system for harvesting skills. It’s just not as outdated and in need of depth as other creatures. I’d argue giga is a much better choice because it’s an extremely basic tame that is almost strictly outclassed by Charca

(We hope every day not to see two almost identical creatures, one being complex and one being a very simple version of the same thing, in ark 2)

[blissful perch]

Oh, and on quetz I think the issue is that its old role as an air fortress and/or hauler is fully and completely outclassed by the Skiff. It does imo desperately need TLC to give it a new role beyond crappy skiff

[winged dome]

Oh yeah, forgot the Skiff

[mystic wharf]

Ye it is lacking good camera

[blissful perch]

Tbh quetz also used to be used for metal runs and even that’s dead because of Argi TLC + Argi/anky TLC

[hearty osprey]

Oh great even the TLC talk here

[hearty osprey]

It was just Syntac and his fan that made the theri win

Before he made his vid literally saying he wants theri to be the top TLC winner, like the day before the EL and also donating 5k to theri,

Theri was 16th or below

And spending a good chunk of his stream punching down anyone suggesting araneo to win

[untold ingot]

Yeah, he tried to pull his weight a little much for this.

[tiny glade]

Ark 2 is a myth

[blissful perch]

We gotta! TLC is game design and shows what could be coming in ark 2 after

[hearty osprey]

Not that part of the TLC talk

[blissful perch]

Oh lol

[tribal chasm]

I think they have shifted their target audience completely for ASA, not a single person I used to play Ark with is playing ASA. I wish I could say that was because of older age, other games etc, but mostly it is because they dislike what ASA has done.

They are testing all this stuff in ASA for 'Ark 2' but it is already showing to push away their original playerbase

I feel it's a bit similar to the Runescape 2 --> Runescape 3 situation, if they are familiar with that

[obsidian rock]

As a massive fan of Ark SE, and currently not playing ASA, its not about the design decisions of ASA. Its purely just about optimisation and horrible performance. Between my wife and I we have a 3070 Ti and a 4070 and our performance sucks(atleast if you dont want to put your graphics on low).

Im not going to buy a new GPU in this current shortage market just to play ASA when there are so many other engaging games around, so then I just don't play. If the game was better optimised, it would have been the game I spent 80% + of my gaming time on.

[rare rock]

yeah true. And by op I guess I also mean it’s complex enough and already has enough depth AND love from the community

compared to stuff like megalo and araneo which are completely useless

the guy is very op

[rare rock]

no way

[rare rock]

Syntac? Really

unexpected, that makes it even worse im ngl

[blissful perch]

Ah, gotcha. I’d use “overhyped” or “overused” to be a bit more clear, but that’s just me 😛

[winged dome]

Typical Streamer behavior

[rare rock]

no you’re 100 percent right I should’ve worded it better

[rare rock]

yeah but I just don’t expect it from Syntac

by punching down, what do you mean specifically?

anyway about Syntac , he knocked out a giga using a max level araneo

[winged dome]

That's not really impressive considering Araneos have ranged Torpor+slowing attacks

All creatures are brainless to KO if you can deal torpor from a safe distance

Araneo just made it so you don't need to build a trap to do so

[rare rock]

i guess. also, this torpor of it keeps building up nonstop (almost)

like it keeps going for a veeery long time

id like to see big hairy demonic spiders in ark2, the typical aussie one

i always wanted ark2 to be mainly focused on mythical creatures but is that the best thing? asa is focusing on them sooo much right now

[winged dome]

Ark2 is probably going to have a bigger focus on alien creatures over mythical ones if I had to guess

More weird stuff like Gloom, Shadowmane, Summoners; as they're all unique(ish) creations over pulling from mythology

[hearty osprey]

still seems to have the basic dinos, with all those Ark2 concepst of 3ys ago

[winged dome]

Yeah there will be some Dinos, but I think the new creatures will be alien critters from Arat

[mystic wharf]

Yes asa is trash as i said a lot of times i agree

Ark 2 performance better than asa ?

[rare rock]

thats very fine, anything other than real life dinos is good

less cool looking awesome dps dinos , like the upcoming cerberus its getting too repetitive and i dont like them icl

[winged dome]

WC can't stray away too far from the elemental trio of Fire, Poison, Lightning. It's in their contract

[worldly garden]

Cerberax is acid anyway, not poison.

[winged dome]

So like a Reaper's blood?

[rare rock]

cerberax , blud said cerberus 😭

[worldly garden]

Arthropleura spit, or Dreadnoughtus vomit

[hearty osprey]

isn't dread vomit just a cannon ball?

[worldly garden]

cannon ball covered in acid vomit

[hearty osprey]

don't remenber if they act any different than normal ones

outside of damage scaling with dread

[blissful perch]

I’m just glad we could talk it out! I love me a good chat about game design and I’ve been starving here

[blissful perch]

Bird catchers in ark 2 to bag fliers would be so funny. Imagine net guns from a tame

[blissful perch]

My guess is a core roster of dinosaurs and a bunch of unique creatures from Arat. Though I’m very curious what they plan to do with Ark 1’s fantasy roster

[tribal chasm]

Makes me miss the Chain Bola days on Quetzals 🙁

Makes me wonder if that will be part of the Quetzal TLC, ability to use turrets on its back without another rider (like Minigun/Ballista etc)

[blissful perch]

IMO there are a lot of good quetz TLC options. If they go hard into “air fortress” features I can definitely see either the return of turrets or perhaps some other special utility to air bases

[rare rock]

these things terrify me i dont think i would even have the heart to tame them now that i think about it

[rare rock]

yes i need that, air fortress

[blissful perch]

Tbh we do need more arthropods in ark. Such amazing insects and crustaceans out there that we can and should see

Orchid mantis for Ark 2 for example? Amazing pick. Or getting YOINKED by a trapdoor spider that’s allo sized

[blissful perch]

I could see such a model being really cool if done well. You’d need to balance it which may prove difficult but I suppose the bar is set pretty high with desert titans and skiffs

[winged dome]

Nah, we get lame ass bugs instead - none of them could even climb walls until Araneo TLC!

[rare rock]

aint no one tame dat useless ahh desert titan , but yeah you can just make the quetz not so easy to tame and an end game tame, most people would not even use him so

[rare rock]

100% we do

most of the them already in the game are useless , if not all

except for new araneo ofc

[winged dome]

Unrelated, but everytime I read 'ahh', my brain just assumes the typer is struggling to find the word they're looking for lol

'dat useless ... derrrrrrr ... Desert Titan! Yeah, dassit!'

[blissful perch]

I really like dung beetles on principle (little fella energy) but I agree the whole arthropod class has been done filthy

Ridable giant crabs would also be fun, but I’d guess they would be pretty bad lol

[winged dome]

It's funny, we have a crab tame, but I don't even associate Karkinos with crab because it seems so ... not crab-like

[blissful perch]

I mean what do we have:

crustaceans (crabs, lobsters, shrimp, crayfish)
Insects (huge variety, beetles, bees/wasps/termites/ants, butterflies and months, mantids, flies, dragonflies, grasshoppers, etc)
Arachnids (spiders, ticks, scorpions)

Not all inclusive or anything, but yea the only real reps are Karkinos, bee queens, rhino, scorpion (dire need of a TLC imo!) and spider

A giant grasshopper would be pretty cool

[hearty osprey]

what we need is a thyla size Mantis Shrimp

[winged dome]

I could see a Grasshopper as a nice early game travel glider that also gathers fiber well

Maybe give it some Cricket inspiration and have various buffing calls to boost harvesting efficiency for allies

[hearty osprey]

would prob fill the procp/frog travel nich that now the bunny also exist in

[winged dome]

Same vein yeah, but each still has their own abilities that sets them apart - Roo has passenger and crazy knockback on kick, while Frog gets paste and can swim

[blissful perch]

Could be fun movement too to alternate between hopping and short flying stints

[blissful perch]

I also love this idea of giant cricket with its own songs. Hunting horn mains will eat very good lol

[rare rock]

😂

[mystic wharf]

Ark 2 performance will be better im sure , but camera Even better since the camera is the most frustrating to me since the camera is very boring in asa lack of feel inside the world, directional Moving is the best for me , but performance isnt really an issue for me

[balmy shale]

we have lobsters

but it's from a dlc we don't EVER talk about
(aqu*tica)

Aside yeah i want more crabs

Karkinos😭😭😭

[hearty osprey]

Yeah a karkinos reskin

[mystic wharf]

Meh i find them boring i could care less about karkinos

A lot like asa camera

[worldly garden]

ARK 2 will be a reskin..... wait for it...............

[mystic wharf]

Huh , What are you on about ?

What would be a reskin? Graphics ?
Ark 2 will have better graphics than asa and not a reskin asa graphics are ugly i have enough of asa bad graphics @worldly garden so dont say nonsense

[cunning carbon]

Ark 2 will be abandoned… wait for it…😭

[rare rock]

🤣

[barren obsidian]

i think they are collecting enough budget for ark 2 so we wont end up with a bad game

[rare rock]

kalrim im a big fan

[blissful star]

ew

[hasty mist]

Homi

[tribal chasm]

I wonder if in Ark 2 they can 'fix' the issues of dinos sticking heads through terrain/walls etc. Even if it means their heads bending awkwardly to fit through a gap, rather than just meshing through

[blissful perch]

My guess is that the simple answer of making creatures require spaces larger than their bodies to fit their heads would probably be the result

[rare rock]

Lewis Hamilton p2 what a day this is going to be chat i am extremely very much happy

[stray elm]

It's called.
"You can't have a next-gen stable game on outdated consoles"

Halo-Infinite on the Xbox-One is a prime example of this.

[hidden furnace]

fr I'm pissed because my playstation 1 isn't able to run ark 2 wtf literally i don't have the type of money to upgrade lmfao

[stray elm]

Right?
God, gotta spend money now?

[hallow owl]

lmfao except next gen is almost impossible to get retail because of scalpers

[cloud wave]

Ik I was just excited when heard vin diesel was gonna be in the game

[hidden furnace]

it's fine you can just build your own, oh wait you can't do that because consoles are a closed market, almost forgot

[stray elm]

Don't know about Playstation, but the Series X-S's are going down in price.

[hallow owl]

people selling for up to 2k in states

[cloud wave]

My point exactly

[hidden furnace]

get a pc?

[stray elm]

You could also buy a pre-built PC for cheaper.

[hidden furnace]

mhm

[hallow owl]

not everyone can blow that kind of money we have responsibilities

[cloud wave]

Sorry cant afford a over thousand dollar electric bill

[stray elm]

But either way, the marketing of next-gen consoles will go down.
That's how marketing works.

[stray elm]

If you can blow money on a next-gen console, you can buy a PC.

[untold ingot]

Ps4 hardware isn't really compatible with ue5. Ark loses more money by not keeping up to date with technology than by not lol

[hidden furnace]

^^^

[hallow owl]

my wife getting me ps5 for christmas hopefully

[stray elm]

As long as you don't care for graphics. A pc that can run ARK-2 is going to be cheaper then buying a whole new console.

[tropic forge]

no need to rush for a ps player you will have to wait around 1 year at very least

[stray elm]

True

Since it's coming out in Early-Access

PS players aren't even getting it next year.

[tropic forge]

and we dont know when only its suppose to be on 2023

[stray elm]

Don't quite me on this. But i'd say roughly June 2023 or before.
The Xbox-Showcase was showing games coming within the next '12 months'
So, i'd say that's a safe bet. But of course isn't official.

[hallow owl]

so i have time to get my console sweet

go to know thank you all

[stray elm]

Basically you have till 2024

[hallow owl]

much appreciated for information

[stray elm]

Which by that time, next-gen consoles are 100% going down in price.

[hallow owl]

yeah definetely

[tropic forge]

well the game can be push back again another year but i dont think so but still possible and time for realease i can see it on march for the holidays

[hallow owl]

i need one sooner than later i have a gen1 slim still works great but its a gen1

shit can take a shit tomorrow n boom no game

[stray elm]

Right.
But that's if another delay happens.
As of right now, i think it'd be June 2023 or before.
I could totally see it coming in March, on the Anniversary of the original games release.

[stray elm]

Same.
I have a gen1 Xbox-One. And i've had this baby for 5 years.
I fear she'll kick the hay at any moment.

[hallow owl]

yeah i've had some issues but nothing i can fix

[stray elm]

Oh hey, apparently 2023-2024 is the rough timeline for when the PS5-Pro's and X-2's are coming out.
Yeah, the originals are 100% going down in price at that time.

[hallow owl]

my ps3 i rebuilt that thing once every other month

kept it alive for a year till i got my ps4 at tax time

[royal nebula]

Ark 2 will probably be out sometime around March-may next year

Atleast that’s my thoughts and guess

February seems too early and June seems too late

[zinc mantle]

2023 is too early. 2 years passed and 0 gameplay video

[rough gulch]

i would expect december 2023

[stray elm]

I'm expecting late 2023 also. But there's a chance it could come out mid-2023

[mighty lion]

If no hard release date by extralife, december 2023 is what I'm going with

[royal nebula]

If they had original plans for 2022 then I can’t really see it being late 2023

[stray elm]

True

Even Genesis-2 with it's last delay was from December to mid 2021.

[zinc mantle]

Ark2 was announced at 2020 and now still cant show any gameplay so will be late 2023or delay to 2024

[stray elm]

And another delay all depends on how smooth development is going.
With them being on a new engine with (hopefully) better coding, it could be going more smoother then any DLC has gone, they just overestimated the 2022 release.
At the same time, it is a whole new game, which comes with its own issue

[royal nebula]

They have to space out the trailers so hype stays…

[stray elm]

No-gameplay doesn't mean it isn't done at all.
Could mean they just don't want to show any gameplay yet.

[royal nebula]

If they showed us everything at once then people who don’t play ark will be like “hey that’s cool” then forget about it

[stray elm]

We're in a time within the gaming industry that a lot of companies like to show gameplay at the last second.

[zinc mantle]

hope so

[royal nebula]

And then if they want hype again they have to make another trailer which takes time on its own

[stray elm]

Or when the game is more closer to release, and marketing of the game starts to happen. 'Then' they'll probably show gameplay.

If they're not just waiting till Extra-Life

[royal nebula]

Yeah

[stray elm]

Which is probably what they're doing.

I just want to see how the herd system will work

And if you can be trampled, i wanna see some fucking fights in the eye-of-the-storm of a massive herd

Imagine you're fighting some Aratai's and you make a herd of trikes panic, and you kick one of the motherfuckers into a trike.
That fucker is dead.

[zinc mantle]

I just want play ark with no hack

[royal nebula]

I hope the combat is more polished then Conan (if it is like Conan combat)

[stray elm]

Well, ARK-2 isn't going to be exactly like ARK-1

[stray elm]

I really like the idea and concept of Conan's combat.
But yeah, it's janky as all fuck due to not being polished and bothered with post-launch.

[royal nebula]

Yeah it looks fun but it looks goofy sometimes

Also I want parry’s which idk if Conan has or not

[stray elm]

Welcome to 2016 survival game animation that have yet to be reworked since lauch.

[stray elm]

Kind of.

[untold ingot]

Imagine parrying a trike though

[stray elm]

Just like FromSoft-games.
"Parry, but hole"

[royal nebula]

I want to be able to block someone else’s sword with my sword and so on

I think In Conan it’s only shields that can block

[stray elm]

Yeah.
The block button is kicking without a shield

One thing i love, is shields aren't the 'end all' means of defense.
Cause with a fucking warhammer, you can slam down on someone with a shield and damage them. Even with their shield up

[royal nebula]

Yeah heavy weapon shield counters make sense

[stray elm]

Yep.

[mighty lion]

That's comparing a dlc release to a full game release.

[stray elm]

Yes.
A dlc on a hella unstable modified version of Unreal 4.

Versus a more fresh, hopefully less janky coding on Unreal 5

[mighty lion]

Using a great deal of preexisting assets.

[stray elm]

Assets are a lot more easier to make then the coding itself.

[mighty lion]

Yah hopefully the put in some good coding practices. I work in software and some of the guys with 30+ years experience write messy confusing code.

[stray elm]

Which was more or less my point.

[mighty lion]

Given the combat in the trailer, I think there's a good chance we can do that

[untold ingot]

Shields as a means of impenetrable defense exist only in video games lol

[mighty lion]

Ac valhalla does a good job with destructible sheilds and counters

[stray elm]

No shit, Sherlock

[frosty summit]

"Giga might be strong, but tribe is stronger together" - Vin Diesel 2023

[ripe marsh]

same

I hope it's reduced in size

[limpid pebble]

if manas are extinct in ark 2. do you think it's an ironic joke on wildcard's end simply based on a fact that manas have broke the game so many times at so many scales that they are just all Gone now from the base game

well they're not from the base game but yknow what i mean. the playable game

i too remember the era of people paying $20 just to get a mana themselves... literally the most iconic gamebreaker i can think of that we've had

[mighty lion]

I mean people paid that for top stat till the end. I hope they just do extensive tests before releasing creatures...

[graceful smelt]

all ark 2 is going to be is vin disel riding a rex around, and you fighting other vin disel's

[mint swan]

https://tenor.com/view/family-fast-and-furious-endgame-bald-vin-diesel-gif-24765937

[graceful smelt]

i see you guys are getting your character builds ready lmao

is that the default outfit we will spawn in with now as well?

no longer naked on a beach but fully dressed

[untold ingot]

I read that first time as fully depressed😂😂

[split dove]

you never know 😂

[tropic crag]

I'm fully depressed

ᶦⁿᵗᵒ ᵐʸ ᵇᵉᵈ

[fiery wedge]

Facts

[worldly badger]

Wait where u see that

[limpid pebble]

its a hypothetical

[left arch]

Damn bro, what kind of PC are you thinking of

500w does not cost $1000

[untold ingot]

Take out the bed part and this is me lol

[mighty lion]

Or or he lives in california where running a house fan will cost you $500 a month

[tropic crag]

Can confirm, west coast electric bills are mad for almost no reason other than the big tech companies consuming more than we do and us having to pay the premium like they do (WA resident here)

[plain orchid]

cough cough nuclear cough cough

[untold ingot]

This lol. Or at least letting musk put out his solar factories lol

[rugged flame]

So I'm seeing ark2 is only gonna be 3rd person only if so I will not be getting it

[agile jackal]

whats the next event

[tropic forge]

news?

[odd ice]

Wait really?

[odd ice]

Hasn't it already shrinked in size? I remember last time I played years ago it was much bigger along with titanosaurus and recently it seemed to me that it's much smaller. Might be memory problems though a few posts I've seen have people thinking the same.

[ripe marsh]

Dunno about that but what I meant was a size reduction on par with rex and Spino

[rugged flame]

Yeah

[odd ice]

Well it might help with the combat system if it's 3rd person

Not sure why it's forced 3rd person though

[rugged flame]

I won't get it

[odd ice]

Why not

[odd ice]

Have they been made smaller?

[rugged flame]

I'll find the video speaking of it

[ripe marsh]

You do you bro, but personally I’d wait until I see some gameplay

[ripe marsh]

No, oversized actually. It’s just giga is even more oversized

[odd ice]

Actually I'm disappointed it's smaller than I thought instead lol

[rugged flame]

Look up why ark2 might fail

I can't post the link to the video

[lapis storm]

Hi

[ripe marsh]

Yeah that’s kinda why I don’t like exaggeration of prehistoric creatures in media.

[rugged flame]

I meant it says it

[tropic forge]

cause you dont know last couple years theres being a trend of every sequel being "doom to fail" and after a 3rd sequel comes out the second one after all was a good one and so on

[rugged flame]

It's in the forums

[tropic forge]

and?

no one as see a single clip of gameplay

[rugged flame]

Just watch that

I sent it to you

[ripe marsh]

Dm me it

[rugged flame]

Sent

[mortal kestrel]

😂

[rugged flame]

https://survivetheark.com/index.php?/articles.html/redefining-the-survival-genre-with-ark-2-and-an-update-from-our-studio-founders-r1949/

There yall go read

[odd ice]

Yeah I see your point

What's ark 2 release supposed to be?

[abstract birch]

2023

[rugged flame]

3rd person ark will not be good

[ripe marsh]

According to Xbox, all the games shown at their event would release in the next 12 months. Meaning Ark2’s maximum release would be June 2023

[odd ice]

So they made a trailer at 2020 meaning they started on the production earlier than that?

Just thinking they may have invested on the 3rd person aspect too much for the point of return

[tropic forge]

well its suppose to be 2023 but pc/xbox ps gonna wait around one year after

[rugged flame]

On dinos is fine but person it's not

[odd ice]

Maybe they could make servers that split first person and third person

[ripe marsh]

I like to see my character so It’s not a big deal for me

[tropic forge]

that makes no sense

[rugged flame]

Ark is known for first person

[odd ice]

Wym

They could have separate mechanics

[tropic forge]

true but not separated servers lol

[rugged flame]

Ark has been first person for years why change it

[odd ice]

I mean for launch so people can experience the difference

How the different servers play out

[tropic forge]

that have being discuss here to a point that made it pointless so you gonna wait to see the first gameplays

[rugged flame]

Or why take it out for people that like it

[abstract birch]

Combat might be a reason for 3rd person cause "Souls" like.

[ripe marsh]

Tbh when I heard of Ark, I didn’t wanna play it cause it was 1st person but because there were dinosaurs

[odd ice]

What?

[rugged flame]

But there is a 3rd person Option

[odd ice]

Devs in the game industry aren't really known to be flexible with the community

[rugged flame]

Yeah they do not care

[odd ice]

Or someone who decided the production just chooses that on a whim

[tropic forge]

i have suggest when you engage in combat you go for 3rd view only but the rest would remain 1st view and couple ppl here just when about 3rd only and thats it so i dont even believe that the devs read this chat and take it on consideration

[rugged flame]

Maybe it's only 3rd person in missions

[stray elm]

[tropic forge]

if that was the case there wouldn't be the need to mention only 3rd view would it

[rugged flame]

But I doubt it

[abstract birch]

It will be full third person and modders can make a first person option (which WC stated) but that will only work on unofficial servers or in SP. Doubt it will be a thing on official.

[stray elm]

That'd also just flatout be poor design.
To have missions exclusively third-person while the rest of the game isn't for no reason?

[odd ice]

Well some poll on a video showed that only 14% of people are alright with the forced 3rd person, pretty sure the studio took that to consideration.

Or maybe they'll blow our expectations by a miracle and make 3rd person seem alright

Though pretty sure 1st person will be a thing except you may not be able to play as well with it as 3rd person

[tropic forge]

was that pool made by wildcard?

[stray elm]

Yeah, sure.
Go with a poll on a platform that has bots on it, and that usually the voters cater towards the Youtuber, since people are suckers.

[odd ice]

Since they'll likely base alot of features and mechanics around 3rd person

[odd ice]

Well I've seen plenty polls on YouTube that don't go with the youtuber

Unless you have female youtubers and egirls in your YouTube feed

[stray elm]

Right, and i don't doubt it.
But this is a ARK poll. No one can make up their damn minds, or are just suckers.

[tropic forge]

dosent matter who made those poll if aint wildcard dosent matter a thing

[odd ice]

If they didn't make an official poll for that they must be confident

[tropic crag]

K, bye bye then

[rugged flame]

Yeah wildcard does not care if the people like 1st person

[rugged flame]

See this is prime example

[stray elm]

You hear that?
"Unga-Lunga, u prime example!"

[tropic crag]

"Some poll on a video" doesn't mean jack diddly squat to the devs, if they needed input they'd hold their own poll, not some biased one where everyone votes what the youtuber did to gain brownie points lol

[rugged flame]

It's not just a poll on a video

[stray elm]

It is, in fact, just a poll on a video.

[odd ice]

Not for it to matter to the devs but the general opinion of the audience

[rugged flame]

No it's not

[stray elm]

What audience?
The few hundred if not 10k people watching. When there's hundred thousands of players that all have different opinions?

[stray elm]

Don't DM me shit.

[rugged flame]

I did anyways

[stray elm]

Well, for future reference.
'Don't!'

[rugged flame]

I don't care

[stray elm]

And i don't care about your opinion.
Your point?

[tropic crag]

The audience that, as I stated, is sucking up to the biased opinion of the youtuber most times. Look at the Nooblets poll lmao

[rugged flame]

They have a block button

[stray elm]

And i'll use it if need be.

[rugged flame]

Good whatever helps you sleep at night

[stray elm]

A nice warm cup of milk also helps.
If you're so willing to help, can you get me some?

[tropic crag]

Don't dm me either, especially basic info I've known for a looooong time before you even joined the discord. I know you're new here, but that's not the way to make friends buddy

[rugged flame]

I'm not new here

[tropic crag]

Uhhh

[stray elm]

Your icon says otherwise

"I'm new here, say hi!"

[rugged flame]

I join awhile back then left

[tropic crag]

Ok, and?

[stray elm]

Soooooo.
You're new

[rugged flame]

Then came back

[tropic crag]

🤦‍♂️

[rugged flame]

I'm not new to ark

[stray elm]

No one asked if you're new to ARK

[rugged flame]

Idc

[stray elm]

Damn, they must be a robot if their default response of not knowing how to respond properly is "i don't care"

Damn, gonna need to find my Error 303 book to try to fix this bullshittery.

[mint swan]

Damn

[stray elm]

Damn

[tropic crag]

Dam

[stray elm]

Damn

[tropic crag]

(A beaver made it)

[stray elm]

Dom

[tropic crag]

Sub

[stray elm]

D-d....dom......... 'Gears of War 3 flashbacks'

"All around me are familiar faces. Warn out places, warn out faces."

[tropic crag]

Worn*

[craggy fog]

Is it rude of me, as a newbie, to want to correct spelling errors? 🤣 Btw, hi I'm pretty new to this server. Exploring the tabs and such lol

[stray elm]

.....FUCK!

[craggy fog]

Oh you already did it 🤣🤣

[odd ice]

@stray elm @tropic crag Go to the Ark subreddit and use the Tag "poll" and type "ark 2 " next to it.
You'll see the majority by far wants 1stp rather than forced 3rdp

[mint swan]

I am also new

[stray elm]

To be fair for you. That'd be a lot more welcoming then whatever James is on.

[stray elm]

Which ARK subreddit?
There's like 3

[odd ice]

Both the YouTube pill and Subreddit poll suggest the audience dislikes forced 3ed person and do you yet have to oppose?

[tropic crag]

The vocal ones, yes. But not every shmuck who plays Ark goes on... shudders... Reddit 🤮

[odd ice]

"Ark"

Lol still denying the polls

Man I swear this hotel internet is throughly crappy

[tropic crag]

Because it's not official, nor do they have 100% of the players making their vote

[craggy fog]

I was reading all that. Honestly could care less about other people's opinions on polls on a YouTubers channel. If it's not the company themselves, it doesn't make a difference. Personally I don't like third person for ARK, but that's just me. I'll probably be on ARK 1 for a long time before even thinking of ARK 2

[stray elm]

Okay, i may be a dumbass when it comes to Reddit, since i don't use it often.
Can you take a screenshot for me of the post, and how many people voted?

[chilly osprey]

We'll get used to third person if we have to.

[native linden]

Forced 3rd person ruins immersion

[rugged flame]

Not

[craggy fog]

Agreed. It's however the developers make the game. It's still going to be a good game! I'm just not going to be able to afford it lol. I'm happy on ARK right now anyways. 😊

[tropic crag]

And who knows, the third could be spectacular, we have no idea, we've literally read words on a store page and seen pre-rendered cutscenes.

[craggy fog]

Then don't buy the game and have a fun life. All you gotta do is play what you wanna play

[tropic crag]

Go play Red Dead or Mass Effect, I dare you

[noble oak]

lol can we keep the chat relevant please ffs

[rugged flame]

Oh I wasn't gonna get it if it's gonna be 3rd only

[stray elm]

I'm not 'too' bothered by it being 3rd-person only (despite the name) but i do agree, it does ruin the immersion for me.
But hey. My official days are over and i only play unofficial anyway, so more modding for me.

[native linden]

Imagine trying to access your mortar and pestle right next to a smithy

[stray elm]

Mass-Effect has a great story. But i'd hardly call the gameplay 'immersive'
The characters are immersive, but the gameplay itself isn't.
Red-Dead 2 actually does have first-person.

[tropic crag]

As if that is even going to be a problem in a completely-designed-for-third-person game, lol

[craggy fog]

I've tried to play it in 3rd person before, and it's ok. Nothing too major to get used to. Only issue I've had is with handling my weapons like netting or tranquing tames

[rugged flame]

I only play unofficial too

[stray elm]

"IDC"

[noble oak]

jeez

[tropic crag]

You get my point though, there are immersive third person games, and not everyone has the same idea of what immersion is, either

[rugged flame]

You started it

[noble oak]

child

[stray elm]

What're we, fucking 5?

[native linden]

immersion isn't as good in third person

[tropic crag]

For you, maybe. I can be more immersed in a third person game sometimes, like in Red Dead

[stray elm]

Oh, i 100% get it.
.....i just still want a 1st person even if it's janky as all fuck. 👀

[native linden]

getting chased by a raptor or rex in first person as a new player is a lot more terrifying than in 3rd person

[stray elm]

OOOH, 'fair'
You stopped after 'i' so i was confused with 'fai?'

[tropic crag]

Those darn emojis, never where I left em 😅

[rugged flame]

This is why ark1 will be better

[craggy fog]

Either way it's not a question of if you can outrun it or hide from it. It's a matter of WHEN you get CHOMPED on lol

[tropic crag]

Jesus, who called the FPS fanboys lmao 7 "this"'s

[untold totem]

for a moment until you realized, you are not the one who is being chased by a raptor, your character are

[stray elm]

Unironically, would love if they had their first gameplay trailer for ARK-2 have it as a recreation of the beginning scene of the first ever ARK trailer.

[chilly osprey]

Nostalgia value.

[stray elm]

Bruh, those have like 200 votes. @odd ice

That's not even a quarter of the Reddit's community

[odd ice]

Wouldn't want first person to be as fixed like orbitalview either

[craggy fog]

Do they have anything out on new dinos in ARK 2? I haven't looked since I'm not getting it for a while, but I might get it eventually.

[odd ice]

It's like everyone who participated in the poll what of the low amount?

[tropic crag]

Nope, just the ones in the trailers that we know of currently

[odd ice]

It roughly shows the percentile

[stray elm]

Which the Reddit community is like a quarter of the community of ARK as a whole.
So that's like 'mumbles in math' like.....0.5% of the whole community.

[odd ice]

And division

[wispy sierra]

we were showed dodos and raptors and a rex but not much betond trailer footage

[craggy fog]

Dang. I'm sure they'll have stuff out at some point though

[stray elm]

There's around 200 votes on the post, right?

[tropic crag]

That is NOT how that works, lol

[wispy sierra]

not how that works at all

[odd ice]

You never works when it's not to your favor

[stray elm]

200 votes.
In a subreddit.
With 200,000 people.

[rugged flame]

@stray elm got all butt hurt because I dm you

[wispy sierra]

nah if i put up a poll and like 5/5 people said they wanted no dinos in ark 2 would that be a percentile

[odd ice]

Not that few obviously

[tropic crag]

Oh yeah, I'm sure we'll get the monthly dino/biome reveals like we did with Ark 1 in EA, super excited for that tbh (oh and the dino suggestion posts too!)

[stray elm]

Ayo, we in pre-school now and calling out people infront of everyone who doesn't give a shit?

[odd ice]

As more people participated the division would be roughly the same

Indicating where the majority goes

[craggy fog]

Dino suggestion posts?? 🧐🧐

[chilly osprey]

That's not how surveys work.

[wispy sierra]

yes but 200 is pitifully small.

[rugged flame]

You the one let it out in group chat

[odd ice]

Significantly larger than we bunch however

[mint swan]

I hope Ark 2 doesn’t have that host barrier

[stray elm]

You're the one still going on about it when we've moved on.

[odd ice]

Well it's gonna because hardware limitations on ps4 being really low

[wispy sierra]

i won't deny that most people probably want fps but polls with like a couple hundred votes don't prove much

[tropic crag]

Yeah, they made posts asking for suggestions eventually and stuff like the thylacoleo and tusoteuthis were actually player suggestions that they added to the game

[mint swan]

And on ps5?

[native linden]

I mean tbh I'd be hard pressed to find many people who'd support removing first person entirely

[odd ice]

Likely an even tighter border because ark 2 is gonna be more demanding than ark 1

[wispy sierra]

i'm indifferent about it

[craggy fog]

That's what he's trying to say @odd ice . If you took a city populated at 100,000 and 3,000 participated in a survey saying they should ban people wearing shoes. What kind of percentile would that be? Only 3,000 out of the full 100,000 populace voted. So does it count?

[odd ice]

Ps5 since it has better hardware may have a much larger barrier, I'm not exactly sure about how good the hardware is compared to PC though never looked into it.

[tropic crag]

Highly doubt it will, what with being current-gen consoles only and all

[mint swan]

Okay thanks

[craggy fog]

That's amazing!

[stray elm]

Can i just state that the subreddit has 200k members. Which is also only around a quarter of the whole community.
Just saying, but that vote has only like .5% of the whole community with it so far.

[tropic crag]

Won't be on PS4, current-gen only

[odd ice]

Yeah figures, fps drops occur even on ark 1.

[odd ice]

If you took 3000 people at random and the majority still landed on "yes" then it's likely that when you take the rest of the city it's gonna be the same divison

[craggy fog]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that too! I have a ps4, so I won't even be able to get ARK 2 🤣 So forgetful I am!

[rugged flame]

Are you on ps4

[odd ice]

Yeah

My ps4 is quite old though

[tropic crag]

Well that and it's on Unreal 5, they can't take full advantage if they are held back by last-gen tech

[rugged flame]

It's better on next gens

[craggy fog]

It's still only a small percent of the entirety. It doesn't matter if it's at random or not. It's such a small number you never know what the overall tally will be.

[odd ice]

Yeah unfortunately gotta shrink the audience from there

Not gonna be buying ark 2 anyway

[chilly osprey]

With such a small sample size, the results could easily be biased. Also people aren't chosen randomly.

[tropic crag]

Then why do you care so much, lol? That always puzzles me, why care if you aren't getting it?

[odd ice]

What decided people aren't chosen randomly, like your pushing that condition.

[odd ice]

Doesn't neccessary mean I won't change my mind in the future

[chilly osprey]

People on Reddit may have similarities, and the specific people who decided to vote may too.

[odd ice]

I just have a lot of games in my library so maybe if I'm exhausted with them I'll look for something new

[tropic crag]

Still don't understand the reasoning behind wanting a feature in a game you (currently or otherwise) aren't getting

That's like me wanting the next Assassin's Creed to have lasers and take place underground on the moon

[odd ice]

Well the poll on YouTube and reddit still shows majority, besides people obviously dislike being forced in 3rd person which makes common sense that most people will also say no.

[craggy fog]

Maybe if you're exhausted with the games, try going out on a nature walk. Maybe you won't care about games you don't currently intend to buy? Also, it's what I do when I don't want to stay inside anymore 😊 Being outside helps

[odd ice]

Well if I ever get exhausted lol

[native linden]

ark 2 devs gonna fumble the bag by implementing features that most people don't want

[tropic crag]

I have no dogs in that race, so IDGAF if they make it about cavemen templars or outer space or make the same game 20 more times

[native linden]

game dies out in 3 months

[odd ice]

I have my time plenty outside, thanks for your suggestion though.

[tropic crag]

This does help when facing burnout with games, I will say

[odd ice]

Altough I myself would like third person forced because it gives mmorpg vibes and I'm attracted to that

[odd ice]

Honestly when I come home after a healthy time outside It makes me feel guilt to sit back and play games

[tropic crag]

I'm just happy they're making the game the way they want to make it tbh

[stray elm]

[craggy fog]

It really does! I know most gamers don't get out enough, I've been guilty included, but it's great to once in a while.

[tropic crag]

To each their own

[rugged flame]

Well the game won't make alot of money like that

[tropic crag]

It's like how if you try to beat a level in something, and you keep losing and get angry, sometimes a break is all you need, go eat, walk it out, take a nap. You'll get back and beat the level first try, most times

[odd ice]

Sometimes no matter how much you wish to indulge yourself in pleasure of playing video games you often realize you're indifferent from staring at a wall

[tropic crag]

We'll see

[rugged flame]

Yeah

[native linden]

Probably won't sell well with pvp players

[odd ice]

Well warthunder devs are pushing that money template hard

[craggy fog]

Yes! Or a snack or just something.

[tropic crag]

When we haven't seen gameplay, it's foolish to jump to such a conclusion that it's just going to die on arrival, but to each their own

[craggy fog]

Yeah. Right now it may seem like it won't be good, but they've given so little to actually know how the game is getting set up.

Which, I think is good.

[odd ice]

I'm rather more concerned about the price assuming the game is decent

[tropic crag]

They're literally drip feeding us to intentionally keep the hype managed and not out of hand like they did with Ark 1 DLC

[native linden]

I still think it could be a good game but not as a sequel to ark 1

ruined to many core mechanics that are intrinsic to the core gameplay of ark 1

[tropic crag]

It'll be on gamepass, and releasing in EA for the first little while, so it won't be more than 40 at first

[odd ice]

Which platforms does gamepass involve?

[tropic crag]

How do you know they "ruined" anything? You played it? lol

[native linden]

not looking for a souls type survival game

[rugged flame]

We all know wildcard breaks their game

[odd ice]

Imo something combined with mmorpg and ark would be very unique and interesting

[tropic crag]

Xbox and Windows PC, it's a Microsoft thing

[odd ice]

Ahh fuc..

[native linden]

I'd agree but not as a sequel to the original ark

[tropic crag]

But it'll be cheap (aka not full price) for early access, so it won't be too bad, as long as Sony let's them put it on there in EA, which I doubt, sadly

[royal nebula]

If you rather have the sucky pvp we have now then stay on ark 1 I guess

[odd ice]

Well if Ark 2 wants to retain alot of players over the long term they need to change things somewhat to keep it refreshing

Can't just be a few mechanics, dinos and DLCs included

[tropic forge]

unless they pull a bulder's gate 3 🤣

[odd ice]

Aren't early access games more expensive? Maybe I'm mixing up with pre- order

[tropic crag]

Sony is dropping the ball with crossplay and early access games not generally being allowed on their platform, they could be making so much money and retaining so many gamers

[tropic crag]

Nah, they aren't allowed to be as they aren't the full game

[rugged flame]

its still gonna be shitty

[odd ice]

Doesn't it cost to join the crossplatform along with Microsoft?

[native linden]

They could improve the pvp without completely changing it

[short fulcrum]

If you want to play ark 1, play ark 1
If you want to play ark souls, play ark 2
The first game isn't gonna disappear when the sequel comes out

[odd ice]

They can't be leaving playstation isolated for their own joy right?

[tropic forge]

well.... the official servers will the question is how long they will remain on

[craggy fog]

Honestly, over any other improvements at all, I'd take server lag and stability over a new game/better mechanics/story/all the stuff you guys are saying any day

[rugged flame]

it probably will come to ps a year later

[short fulcrum]

Unofficial exists

[tropic forge]

yeh those will exist as long there's ppl willing to pay the servers

[odd ice]

Warthunder somehow manages it with stability and server lag and new features constantly

They might be pushing some of the load onto the player's client though because a large performance loss occurred a few years ago

[rugged flame]

i play on modded unofficial servers

like primal fear, eternal

[short fulcrum]

People will be
Ark has tons of dedicated players that will probably set up unofficial official rates servers when the official ones shut down

[odd ice]

Like cs 1.6

Alot of unofficial servers

[rugged flame]

pugnacia and parados

[craggy fog]

Anyways, I'm going to focus on my show now. Nighty night, have fun! I'm excited to possibly play with some of you! If I ever run into you, make sure to say hi. I mostly play pve servers, except for one pvp. I don't do a lot in the pvp server with my tribe, but I'll get there 😁

[odd ice]

Goodnight

[tropic crag]

No, Sony just doesn't like crossplay lol

[rugged flame]

no they dont

[odd ice]

Really? Pretty sure it must cost them something

Because they are very disadvantageous being isolated like that

Minecraft ps4 for example

[rugged flame]

come to xbox or pc @odd ice

[tropic crag]

Which is going to be forever, as long as people will be able to host servers for the game at least

[odd ice]

Nah lol

[rugged flame]

lol

[odd ice]

I don't intend to pay that much for just that

Pretty satisfied with the choice of games I have now

[rugged flame]

i paid $611 for my series x

[odd ice]

The only reason I opened my ps4 years later is because my laptop can't run warthunder anymore after 1600 hours of playing it

[tropic crag]

Night yo, good chattin with ya

[odd ice]

It sucks that you can use your ps4 account on PC but can't use your PC account on Ps4 warthunder

And I guess were getting out of topic

[tropic crag]

The consoles cost the same, iirc, but I understand the preference thing, it is what it is (even though Sony is very consumer unfriendly, at times, like with crossplay)

[odd ice]

Well I don't have a preference as I grew up with multiple ps4 and xbox generations

[rugged flame]

i use to play ark on my xbox for years but i play on my pc now

i think i sent 3k on my pc

built it myself

[tropic forge]

and you gonna have to open a ps5 cause otherwise no ark 2 if you want it

[stray elm]

[odd ice]

Having played for thousands of hours on a laptop with beyond potato specs, I switch games and not hardware lol.

I have a screenshot of playing warthunder on single digit fps and 144p resolution

[tropic forge]

lol i had and pentium 4 for for like 10 years it was to the point even facebook couldn't run 🤣 but if you want new games nowdays you gotta open the wallet

[tropic crag]

I wouldn't if Sony was more understanding or had something slightly as good as gamepass, I used to buy every console until the PS2 when they started doing the whole "we're going to just get as many exclusives as possible" thing to try and kill off the other companies

[tropic forge]

aint about trying to killing other companies its just to make a reason for a person to chose them over the others

[abstract birch]

[fiery wedge]

Which would hopefully drain other companies of resources

[abstract birch]

XBox/Microsoft does nothing different with their gamepass now.

[tropic crag]

No, they've specified they want Microsoft and Nintendo out of the game, it's not just the player preference (which would draw them away from Xbox and Switch anyways, lol)

[odd ice]

Well I just went with whatever my brother bought

[fiery wedge]

Lol, playstation wants them out but they'll never do anything to get them out. Sony is an L company.

[odd ice]

My most notable memories on xbox were GTA SA, mafia and rainbow six siege vegas 2.

[abstract birch]

Gamepass makes it easy to play all the games on it without paying for them, an option Steam, etc. don't have and it is marketing to make people chose XBox/Mocrosoft store over others.. and to built a monopol, so other platforms slowly die.. normal marketing.

[tropic crag]

It's nothing like what Sony is doing, it's more for the gamers and not as oppressively priced as the whole PSPlus garbage lol

[abstract birch]

And why is it gamer friendly ? To draw in more customers.

[odd ice]

In this country I only have to pay €25 for a year of ps plus lol

Like 2.5x cheaper

[royal nebula]

I mean other companies can be encouraged to pretty much copy them to stay alive, which is just a win for all of us

[tropic crag]

They have PC too, it's not about platform, they wanted to put gamepass on Switch and give Nintendo a large cut lmao

[abstract birch]

Microsoft Store is PC.. but steam is not Microsoft store.

And if Nitendo would have taken their "offer" they would have been absorbed my Microsoft.

[fiery wedge]

I wish, Nintendo is ass.

[tropic crag]

Steam isn't a platform??? It's a service made by a developer... not the same at all dude

[abstract birch]

Steam is still a sepperate service that is not connected to Microsoft.

[tropic crag]

100% wrong

[odd ice]

Not sure what it is now but they were pretty trend in the past

[tropic crag]

And PC players aren't forced to use the Microsoft store OR Steam, they can use GOG if they want, or Origin, or all or even none

[abstract birch]

Sooner or later that would have happend cause I am pretty sure the gamepass would have come with some "hooks"

[tropic crag]

Your point makes no sense here lol

[odd ice]

You can pirate nearly any game with PC and that's the fun part

Not different with ps4 jailbreak

[tropic crag]

Nintendo is the reason gaming is as good as it is now, Birdwoman just doesn't know their history lmao

[fiery wedge]

I do know the history of their company. And it's shit now.

[tropic crag]

So many significant things that all the companies have done that have furthered gaming as a whole, and even now, they're still making innovations, so no apparently you don't

Everyone makes missteps, remember the Kinect? 🤮

Shit was soooooooooo trash

Wii was better at it

[fiery wedge]

What have they innovated recently lmao

[royal nebula]

Kinda miss people having it tho, because it was hilarious

[fiery wedge]

Bruh you could scream Xbox off and it their party came outta their tv it'd turn off lmao

[tropic crag]

Putting the Witcher 3 on a handheld device, they were the first by like days

[royal nebula]

I remember people on black ops 2 having their Xbox gamertag as “Xbox off” or something so then when people read it, it would shut it off lmao

[fiery wedge]

Porting a game isn't innovating

[tropic crag]

Ok lol, then why is everyone doing the handheld gaming thing, explain that 🤣

"It's just porting so it doesn't matter"

What a joke of a take

[fiery wedge]

Yeah the switch is innovating because you can play your Xbox on your phone

And you're saying my takes a joke

Fortnite is innovating going by that because they put their game on the phone

[tropic crag]

The Switch contains the software AND hardware to run the game, it's entirely different... what are you even on about lol

[fiery wedge]

What're you on about? What other companies have a handheld console?

Besides that shitty one that flopped

[tropic crag]

Well, let's see... Sony, Valve, Microsoft may be developing one (but I won't count it for ya 😉 ) and some of the Oculus variants are all inclusive hardware-wise, so, quite a few (those are the ones I could think of off the top of my head)

Technically, with the way the new attachment for the Series S works, it could be considered a handheld console, if you hold it while playing it 😅

[fiery wedge]

So, 2 companies? And vr headsets aren't consoles

[tropic crag]

Except, they are sooooo

Like I said, off the top of my head, not an all-encompassing list lol

[fiery wedge]

If you're using the technical term then my phone's a console too and so is every other phone ever made

[tropic crag]

Standalone VR headsets are gaming consoles, if that makes your phone one then sure I guess, you stream games to your phone, not run them on it but ok go off I guess lmao

[fiery wedge]

Mobile games?

C'mon bro I aint streaming clash royale

[wispy sierra]

Speak for yourself I need to play clash royale with RTX 4K 350 fps

[tropic crag]

Mobile games are hardly AAA productions like CoD and other such games, if you want to argue semantics like that some more, find someone who will entertain that extremely askew viewpoint of yours, I'm done with it lol

[lavish rain]

Ugh owning 4k rtx GPS systens

[fiery wedge]

Nintendo games are hardly even AAA games anymore either lmao. Only decent games they have now are ports, rise and Pokemon.

And all of those games run like ass

[tropic crag]

Like I said, everyone makes missteps, Nintendo not making any sort of announcement on when Pikmin 4 comes out is certainly one of them... especially when it was "close to completion" almost 5 years ago, according to Shigeru

[lavish rain]

So you bruised them over ut?

[tropic crag]

Hell yeah, roughed em up a lil, told em to speed up the timetable, knaw mean

[desert tangle]

Is the pvp in ark 2 actually gonna be dark souls like

[fiery wedge]

Supposedly

No gameplay footage yet

[lavish rain]

Handcuffs

[fiery wedge]

Kinky?

[lavish rain]

No

[desert tangle]

I hope not

[tropic crag]

Souls-like is a buzzword, Bluestone said it himself as it's just kinda become synonymous with skill based combat

[desert tangle]

Ark is already a unique thing idk why they want too change it

[lavish rain]

I don't see dark souls over ark 2

[fiery wedge]

Because enough people (mostly PvE players) complained about the combat in ark 1

[desert tangle]

Pvp in ark isn’t bad

Minus cheaters

[lavish rain]

No it is

[tropic crag]

Because they want to make a game the way they want to make it, nothing wrong with that, besides, some of the mechanics in Ark 1 are a little dated/bad

[fiery wedge]

Yeah ik

People in here are fat bobs tho

[tropic crag]

The fact that you even have to say this is sad enough

[desert tangle]

Yeah there’s is cheating in any game tho

[fiery wedge]

That's an anticheat issue not a combat system issue

[tropic crag]

Go back to your PvP elitist server, jesus christ it's tiring

[fiery wedge]

I'm just stating the truth. Most people in this discord really don't know how to play the game.

[desert tangle]

If there isn’t suit pvp a lot of people are gonna quit the game lol

[fiery wedge]

^

[tropic crag]

Cringe take

[mint swan]

If things werent improved in ark2 there wouldnt be much point in a 2nd game.

You guys are going to love the improvements, but its understandable to be unsure about changes and the unknown.

[lavish rain]

Why is pickman always anger

[fiery wedge]

That phrase to you just means something you don't agree with lmao

[desert tangle]

Is there gonna be ranged combat or is it all meks based

[fiery wedge]

It has no meaning when you say it

[fiery wedge]

There'll be bows n stuff

[mint swan]

Not all melee combat.

[tropic crag]

I'm only angry when people are PvP elitists and/or have no clue what they're talking about, to be fair (or are trolls, like Birdwoman, who is all of the above)

[tropic forge]

can you say if we gonna tame dinos like before or will be a new way?

[fiery wedge]

Yeah I'm trolling come cross this bridge

[desert tangle]

I hope there is still tek in ark 2

[lavish rain]

So I'm a troll

[abstract birch]

Ark 2 will be primitive and no Tek was stated in a crunch.

[tropic crag]

Boy, are you gonna be disappointed

[lavish rain]

I gess

[fiery wedge]

Everyone in this chat says you're trolling if you don't agree with them lmao

[mint swan]

If you are talking about methods i have no comment. If you just mean can you still tame dinos then of course, vin rides a rex in promo content as an example

[odd ice]

Will there be an option to view from first person be available even if it cannot function as good as third person? like what orbital camera is currently

[mint swan]

Ark2 is planned to be third person only.

[tropic forge]

was about the methods but i understand you cant say nothing, it was a little hope of my part to know that

[odd ice]

[tropic crag]

No, you just have some... misinformed ideas, and liked to go waaaaay off topic, which is counter-intuitive to the discussions

[mint swan]

Get out of my swamp!! 😄

[desert tangle]

Is there gonna be turrets?

[mint swan]

Shhh i know

Ogre not troll

[lavish rain]

What you mean liked

Why slanted word

[tropic crag]

You have improved greatly since I first met you, if it wasn't obvious what I was implying

[odd ice]

Do you get to know secret stuff anyway?

[mint swan]

Who me? I seen some things.

I am very excited based on what ive seen, and i cant wait till more is ready to show you all.

[tropic forge]

that will be on november maybe?

[mighty lion]

That's reassuring

[tropic crag]

Me neither, but I will wait. But I can't. But I will.

[mighty lion]

Hes not gonna give you an announcement date, not how their hype train operates

[abstract birch]

I think Blue simply has no date himself lol

[fiery wedge]

Just forget the games gonna come out, ez.

[odd ice]

Spill what you know blue

[mint swan]

I was about to type one of those fake made up dates that dont exist but folks might still read into it somehow lol

[odd ice]

Or something else will spill instead

[tropic crag]

What I wouldn't give to play certain games for the first time, heh

[odd ice]

[fiery wedge]

Oh yeah especially the people here lmao

[abstract birch]

Yeah some will claim you said it is a fact XD

[mighty lion]

Youd see it in youtube vids and game articles

[lavish rain]

Loaded crisis specific

[tropic forge]

it would be milk for a month or more at least

[fiery wedge]

Or some generic copy paste publishers

[mint swan]

Maybe if people get bored then lol

😈

"Ark II CONFIRMED for Octvember 53rd???"

[mighty lion]

Just randomly post a fake date without saying anything else, so we can see break down analysis vids on what it means

[mint swan]

I was gunna go with novembruary but octvember has a nice ring to it too

The 42th

lol

[abstract birch]

XDD

[fiery wedge]

Bruh

[abstract birch]

And then people will read it as October the 4th XD

[fiery wedge]

Ong

Alright boys wish me luck I just got to Armstrong in mgr on revengeance difficulty

[prisma sparrow]

lol

[fiery wedge]

Ik this shits boutta be pain

[mint swan]

best of luck

[tropic crag]

Nanomachines, SON!

[fiery wedge]

Wow the Jetstream sam fight for him really is a joke huh?

I'm at the phase 2 checkpoint rn and I'm almost killing him every try

[mint swan]

if you know how to use his moveset it's really easy

[fiery wedge]

I'm just taunting and holding Y lol

Does like an eighth of his health every time

Got em lol

He did the fire wall attack and I got 2 hits in and killed him

Technically 3 cause the 2nd one knocked him down and got me another

[uncut hill]

GL

[fiery wedge]

He already dead lol

[uncut hill]

oh W

[fiery wedge]

Preciate it tho

[uncut hill]

gj lmao

[static warren]

Hey guys, anyone wanna make I wild guess on Ark2 System requirements? I’m still running on an i7 6700k and a asus rog strix 1070 oc both overclocked 10-15% wich gives me decent 70 fps on 1080p in ark. I’m trying to find out if I should upgrade or wait.

[fiery wedge]

Well you're gonna need series x to play it. So at least the specs that a modern Xbox has.

[static warren]

I have a series x that’s not the point but pc versions allways different

[lavish rain]

So yall know how the skins of the aratao are dark and scales? Skin cancer might be somthing we have to micromanage ontop of traditional survival needs

It's a completely different star we are dealing with after all

[plain jackal]

What if Ark 2 has.

Ultra Mega Rabies

[lavish rain]

Rabies that mimics real life

[short fulcrum]

Aratao? Do you mean aratai?
I'm guessing the devs are going to implement different diseases and illnesses, like swamp fever

[lavish rain]

I definetly believe in the sun (or whatever the star on the planet would be called, but we will go with sun for now) being an important part of gameplay

In other words:
The sun is a deadly lazer

[short fulcrum]

Would be cool if you needed different complicated antidotes for different diseases
And if you could build you character to specialize in medicine

[short fulcrum]

Sunburn confirmed for ark ll?

[lavish rain]

So sunscreen will be like carrying around a canteen

[short fulcrum]

Yes

[lavish rain]

Skin cancer

[plain jackal]

If they do more what they did with the Giant turtle from Gen 1 by making its body change depending on the environment I'll be happy

Aka Grass grows on its back if left on land instead of water

[short fulcrum]

That would be very cool

[plain jackal]

Dorime should play everytime you see a Trex

[proven zinc]

imagine if ark 2 had indian curry

[minor prism]

Man your still here tryna shit on ark 2 😂 well I can’t say you don’t commit fully lmao

[proven zinc]

no no im not trying to shit on ark 2 i just want indian food bro

[minor prism]

😂 only if they include the shits with it then I’m 100% with u til the end

[proven zinc]

ur a real one bro #indian curry for ark 2

[minor prism]

Toilets and paper for all 👊

[proven zinc]

💪

[mighty lion]

I could see a general curry icon for food like in pokemon sword and shield

[tepid briar]

we already got the obscenely annoying-to-craft toilet, we could do with some nice curry
great boost to stats at first, but then big downside after effect ends (the shits)

[floral plover]

Ark 2 should have masks so I don’t get swamp fever from bobs

[lapis fossil]

Ark 2 should have Concavenator, a Spanish dinosaur 🫡🇪🇸

Viva España 🇪🇸

[floral plover]

It should also have a mini game while on the toilet sort of like taming a strider

[untold ingot]

The mod concavenator is terrible, and Spanish didn't even exist with the dinosaurs lol

[lapis fossil]

Yeah but it was found in Spain bruh😐

[floral plover]

The dinosaurs didn’t speak Spanish

[lapis fossil]

And also, Im saying a Concavenator, not The One from The mod

[floral plover]

It should speak Spanish in game though

[south lance]

Roar in spanish

[lapis fossil]

Yeah

A Concavenator should pull up in front of you and say: que pasa pibe, dame todo lo que tengas o te doy de comer a mis crias que están un poquito hambrientas

[south lance]

Yeah remind everyone that they slept on their duolingo homework

[lapis fossil]

XD

[south lance]

The owl found you in ark 💀

[lapis fossil]

Nah, Im just Spanish xd

[south lance]

Gonna wipe your thatch 5by5

[south lance]

Im not tho 😭

[lapis fossil]

#beachbobsforever

[south lance]

I love thatch aesthetic

Soft and fluffy

[floral plover]

Not that fluffy

[lapis fossil]

Entonces nadie en este servidor entiendo lo que digo xd?

[south lance]

My midget character loves not having to sleep on cold hard metal for 2 hours before getting eaten

Welp, its either getting eaten or blown up

Or ig shot?

[floral plover]

Man! I forgot how to say you smell like my mom in Spanish 🤦‍♂️

[mighty lion]

Googled" concavenator " and its 90% dudes on reddit trying to fit it upside down onto other dinos

[south lance]

🤨

[iron sequoia]

:/

[floral plover]

You got to get that small hit box

[south lance]

Name of the game

Sadge that being big is completely useless

[mighty lion]

They should make a downside to being mini

Like not as far of reach or something

[south lance]

Could have at least conferred melee/fortitude/hp buffs to compensate for being a no aim shot

But then ark kinda hates player stats so they circumvent it all witj tames and guns and flak

[lapis fossil]

Hueles como mi madre

[floral plover]

The size of your body in ark 2 should effect your stats

[floral plover]

That’s it

[lapis fossil]

Yep

[south lance]

The big 8 ft tall build should be able to ko a raptor with one punch

I know Bob can do it

[royal nebula]

Well bob can do almost anything

[south lance]

I wanna be like Bob

[royal nebula]

He solos any universe

[south lance]

Literally tho

Bro defeated element 💀

[royal nebula]

Bob>Steve

[south lance]

🙏 🙏

[lapis fossil]

Bob>> reality

[south lance]

Rip Bob sticker advertising his glorious beef

[lapis fossil]

Bob solos Rockwell😂🙏

[south lance]

Now i gotta expend 30 finger motions in order to find Bob

[mighty lion]

I'm mean counter to popular believe short people often far out-lift taller lanker people. A study said it's because they have more muscle per square inch

[south lance]

I think that only applies after around 6 10 ish

Which is by no means short

Thats a good foot above most of humanity if not more

Like the strongest strongmen are all around 6 5 iirc

Or 190-200 cm

[mighty lion]

Average olympic weightlifter is like 5ft 5

[south lance]

What?

[mighty lion]

Just pulled it from the Olympic website

Strongmen dedicate their lives to being strongmen

[south lance]

Idk how thats possible since theres just physically not enough space to fit that much muscle on a shorter body

Plus if you just look at strongman stats all the champions are in the 6ft range

[mighty lion]

They've worked hard, theybhave the ability to be strong, it just takes greater effort. I've done about 8 year of weightlifting, and people stating atblike 6 2 start having a more difficult time reaching lifting targets

[south lance]

Yk what the olympics link is named

Ik you cant post links in chat

[mighty lion]

Google olympic weightlifter height and it give all their stats

I'll dm you

[floral plover]

Wait

Olympics are in ark 2

[mighty lion]

We were talking about stats vs character size

[floral plover]

Ahh

Bigger upper face size = smarter character

[untold ingot]

Big chin == Bob

[mortal kestrel]

bob chin

[scenic wave]

They start off 6’ and by the time they’re done lifting they’re 5’5

[odd ice]

So far on a poll of 3560 votes, 68% seems not okay with 3rd person only on Ark 2 and 31% says okay.

[tropic crag]

You're really still on about that... I admire the dedication, I guess...

[odd ice]

No?

I was just curious to see what others think so I made a poll, simply.

Not sure how you find it in yourself to facepalm that

[tropic crag]

Because no matter the sample size, it won't matter, unless it's by Wildcard or you somehow (by the grace of a god, aka excessively unlikely) get every person who has ever played Ark to vote

Still even then, Wildcard themselves may not give a shit, and continue making it TPP because that's how they're making their game

[odd ice]

Every poll upto now has the majority with people disagreeing on 3rd person only and "sample size doesn't matter" whatever you like mate

[odd ice]

That's not even the point, I don't care if they give a shit.

[tropic crag]

Well it would seem that you (and apparently everyone else in the playerbase, according to those who want FPP) do care, and do want it in the game, so...

[odd ice]

Seem?

I in fact said I want third person

[tropic crag]

Sorry I mistook the interest that all the FPP players seem to share for wanting it in the game, and for assuming you wanted FPP, usually those who care about the polls and such are the FPP fanboys 😅

[odd ice]

Well it's fine

When did FPP fanboy even become a term lol?

[tropic crag]

It's hard to keep track of who wants what here, because most that come by just spout "muh first person" and never clarify or even chat again lol

[odd ice]

I gotta eat now though I'll continue later if there's anything to

[tropic crag]

Eat well, and FPP fanboys are just what I call the whiners haha

[stray elm]

Love you too.

[odd ice]

Even with singleplayer settings off, leveling feels quick

Like you unlock much more than you get time for

Got stone engrams before even finishing my small wood house and let alone living a few days in it

Or a long neck rifle before even breaking my crossbow

[south lance]

Tbf those things should be relatively quick

I suppose itd be nice to lengthen early and shorten late game

[tropic crag]

With base stats and no explorer notes/xp buffs, the early game is fine tbh. But in singleplayer it's a little quickened, even with singleplayer settings disabled. Idk why they did it that way, but the only things that the singleplayer settings, well, setting change are how many engram points you get per level and the health of the bosses

The stats are different inherently in singleplayer (as opposed to a hosted server) no matter what, again no idea why it is that way but it is, probably just to make it easier to play as a singleplayer game. But then again, those stats should've been lumped in with the setting, so idk it's very confusing

[mighty lion]

Well yeah, its exponential. It starts taking a while once you hit 120

[fiery wedge]

132 is when it starts taking a while

[odd ice]

No need to increase the pace on higher levels, just make lvl requirements a bit higher on lower lvls aswell

[odd ice]

Wait in singleplayer it's quicker even with those settings disabled?

[ripe cedar]

Yeah the xp needed and engrams gain are different in singleplayer

[tropic crag]

Yepperooni

I don't remember the exact numbers but it's like roughly 1.3-1.4 times faster iirc (again, not sure on the specifics lol but it's noticeable) than official stats in singleplayer, even with it off

Not to mention, these days it is also just generally easier base stats than it was back in the day, since they've gradually raised it over time (used to be 1x, then they increased it to the then-current 2x, then again to the then-current 2x, making it effectively 4x the OG rates on release)

So if you want OG rates, you have to set your difficulty down to 0.25x lol

(Which I've done, for nostalgia reasons. Highly advise against it though lmao, it was a snail's pace like I remembered 🤣 )

[odd ice]

Thanks for the suggestion lol, I'm gonna do it since I spend quite some expanding, polishing and decorating my base, aswell as go hunting dinos alone like mini-boss fights.
So I believe I'll be fine.

Now how much do I have to divide and reduce the amount of xp I earnt since I've been playing with much easier settings?

[willow anvil]

ark 2 mid

its no where even near ark 1 why they changing everything that mae

[south lance]

Youre mid

[willow anvil]

made ark,ark

[willow anvil]

alr tell me how ark 2 is an improvment

[south lance]

Got the whole feathered raptors n shit

Family and uh UE5

[willow anvil]

damn bro

[south lance]

On a more serious note ark2 is the devs chance to go back and remake ark in a way consistent with what the playerbase most generally wanted over the past couple years

Atm the biggest gripe ive seen yet is literally just the third person only thing

[willow anvil]

its only on third person- which ruisn immersion n shit they copied the darksouls combat which makes no sense in a dino game taming has completely change which is good because it needs some improvements but its going 2 be story based and progression is also changed

i dont see ark 2 as that much of an improvment

i see it as a differnt game

[south lance]

But compared to a perhaps decent engine, better progression scheme, better looking game, potential to rebalance the meta to properly maintain the parts of ark people enjoyed, its not much

[willow anvil]

yea this is what really makes me mad rn

[south lance]

Despite whats been implied, we dont really have any clue how exactly the souls like combat is going to be implemented

[willow anvil]

and also the combat locking thing

which only lets you 2 lock onto one enemy which is so stupid

[south lance]

Combat locking is almost guaranteed to be optional

Thats how it is with anything like aim assist in almost every game

[willow anvil]

i dont think dark souls combat fits in this game

[willow anvil]

hmm prob

[south lance]

We dont know the extent to which itll mimic dark souls

[willow anvil]

i mean they called it souls combat so

[south lance]

Souls like combat might just imply a couple cool mechanics like dodging and stuff

[willow anvil]

im pretty sure they are pretty simillar

[south lance]

Like, it doesnt need to be a perfect copy of darksouls

And given that its still gonna be an mmo it probably wont

[willow anvil]

for me to much changed

it looks like they are trying to find a new audience

[south lance]

Honestly i think theyre probably overplaying it in the hopes that it would get better public responses, obviously its done less than spectacularly though

[willow anvil]

the public responses arnt that good as everything was annoyed to the fact that the game would only be third person

[south lance]

People always xomplained about lmb spam combat, they responded by making combat not lmb spam

[tropic crag]

I have no idea, but have fun tho

[south lance]

Come release i doubt itll be hard to add in some mediocre fp

[willow anvil]

i think grabbing ppl with griffins and tickshotting ppl with bolas is prime pvp

[south lance]

Yeah and their decision to keep it primal is probably a shift towards that older style of pvp

Admittedly, flyers should be reworked to create a viable ground tame meta plus a ton of other things but in any case it should be closer to ark before extinction

Which everyone wants evidently

[tropic crag]

Souls-like combat is a term that has become the poster boy for skill-based combat, it doesn't in any way mean that the devs are completely copying Dark Souls, and it saddens me when people legitimately believe that

[willow anvil]

how does it sadden you

[warped stream]

I've seen a few people get pissed at that direction but I 100% believe those people sucked at souls and that's why they are scared. But tbh I doubt highly that they mean anything other than dodges and some cool moves.

[mortal kestrel]

nah souls like is the poster boy for a combat system with a dodge roll

[warped stream]

^

[mortal kestrel]

Im personally excited at the new direction

I've long hated arks current combat and leveling system

I mean come on, flat stat boosts are so boring

[warped stream]

Same, new engine, better focus on the community I think if they focus on improving mod loading, lod, and some other neat things it will be a hit.

[mortal kestrel]

Im also sad the grapple hook never got any physics after the bloodstalker was added

[warped stream]

Ark with legit physics would be a shadowmane nightmare

It'd be fun though

[tropic crag]

Because it's misinformed and just generally sad because they may not get the game (and potentially enjoy it a lot)

[warped stream]

Yeah it's straight jumping to conclusions without just thinking hey... They are excited about this and think we'd like it so let's just wait and see.

[tropic crag]

I do hope they improve the physics quite a bit, seeing what they've said about movement has me giddy and imagining things involving said physics

[mortal kestrel]

Im hoping Ill be able to jump attack off walls like monster hunter and do some mid-slide attacks

[odd ice]

While combat locking may save you a hand it just feels like a form of auto-attack and aim-assist for me, I'd like things a bit more manual, but I suppose some servers will turn it off for people who exactly seek that.

[mortal kestrel]

the lock on is less an aim assist a more used to keep your character facing the enemy while you dodge and run around

its quite handy

[odd ice]

Yeah it being quite handy is like hand holding

[mortal kestrel]

meh

ark is a survival game, some hand holding is fine

[odd ice]

Yeah

[mortal kestrel]

it doesnt need to be ultra hardcore

[odd ice]

I'll just seek servers that have it off

[tropic crag]

Nothing saying you'll be forced to use it, from what I read at least

[odd ice]

Unless it proves to be much more advantageous

[mortal kestrel]

nah it will likely work like monster hunter, where all it does is make you face the targeted enemy

[odd ice]

Which it likely will

[mortal kestrel]

I doubt it will make that big of a difference

[tropic crag]

Most games with skill based combat don't have it forced to my knowledge, and I doubt it'll give you any sort of advantage, it's literally just locking on for purposes of not having to whip your screen around constantly in most cases

[mortal kestrel]

unless you are using a ranged weapon I guess

[odd ice]

Well you'll have a 100% hit chance be it their sword, shield or them

[warped stream]

I'd love for the "floaty" feeling to go away..have weight to things and I don't mean the four billion pounds of raw meat

[odd ice]

I like the aspect of missing due aim on top of also having to account for directional attacks and parries

[tropic crag]

Lock on for ranged is highly unlikely, that'd be grounds for aimbotting being implemented eventually, which again I doubt

[odd ice]

That would be like WoT

[odd ice]

Maybe you could express your thoughts with words instead of an emoji so we all get to understand each other better as to why you feel so

[tropic crag]

I just don't get what you mean there, locking on doesn't guarantee a 100% hit chance

Hence the confused face

[warped stream]

I would also like to see them expand on the types of human weapons

But I realize that's going farther into monster hunter area

[odd ice]

Well I mean it removes the chance of you missing due aiming

On top of them dodging

Have you played mount&banner?

[tropic crag]

Mount and Blade? Yes, but not Bannerlord though, just the original

That's still just one of the very few that has ranged lock-on, and I doubt they'd do that as it would accelerate the development of an aimbot

Which is already an issue in Ark 1, a game without a lock-on feature, where we didn't see aimbots until much later down the line than in a game with lock-on for ranged weapons

[fiery wedge]

Ranged weapons is souls like games are ass even with lock on

[tropic crag]

Maybe if you are ass with them, sure. But I rocked some crossbows myself in 3 lmao

[fiery wedge]

It's literally impossible to be bad with them lol

[tropic crag]

You just contradicted yourself entirely...

[fiery wedge]

How? There's no skill required and they're still ass.

Can't read much?

[odd ice]

You know where I come from then having to aim yourself

[tropic crag]

I never did ranged on M&B, so I don't know actually lol, I thought you were citing it as one with lock-on 😅

[iron sequoia]

Keep channel on topic please.

[tight glade]

Something I’d like to see even tho Ark is kinda hitting somewhat of a different storyline than before.
Have the character find a way back to earth, to where extinction was, and discover the aftermath of the battle that took place there after the events of the main story.
Maybe have a cutscene or something with the rusted mega-mek and the skeleton of the King Titan as a landmark of the great battle.

[short fulcrum]

I want a whole game set on earth after the events of extinction
But it's probably too early to be talking about ark 3

[sweet onyx]

will ark 2 flop

[tight glade]

No

I see lots of potential for Ark

2, at least

[lapis fossil]

Ark 2 ps5

[lapis fossil]

Yes

I hope they put first person in Ark 2🙁

Because

There are moments when you want to observe things with your survivor pov

Idk, i just think its cool

[formal flower]

I doubt it man. How tf are they gonna move the main games playerbase to a overhauled new game. It's prolly boutta flop like Overwatch 2 will

[lapis fossil]

Maybe making a better game?

[tight glade]

Also, I see that they have more accurate representations of Dinosaurs in Ark 2
Feathered Raptors, Floof Rex, wider Pteranodons.
If any creature from Ark needs a reality check, it’s a Giga.
Size down and smooth out the body.

[formal flower]

Yea but that could be fixed with a update. If you think realisticly how much can they really change to make it a whole new experience, still keep it like ark and make it a completely different game from Ark SE

[formal flower]

[tight glade]

I’d like to see a paleo spino in Ark 2, that could be a step up