ark-2

[south lance]

pvp kit bps arent that expensive

[untold ingot]

Maybe, but the game definitely isn't balanced around 450 tames lol

[south lance]

the game overall wasnt ya

which makes this kinda interesting

[past wind]

You don’t think flak bps are important? Really?

[south lance]

i literally just said i misworded lol

[past wind]

Ah ok

[untold ingot]

Again, the issue I have isn't the actual cost. It's just the imbalance between structure cost and gear cost

Ark1 makes it work by having stupid amounts of turrets

I don't want ark2 to have as many turrets and paper spam

[south lance]

i dont think its a mismatch, just thay structures should be stronger and costs go up

i think you just want to condense things down

[untold ingot]

That comes back to me not liking inflation lol

I could care less about the overall inflation of it iff there was a better structure to gear cost ratio

[south lance]

instead of 350 slots, 30, instead of 100 turrets, 10 or 20, instead of thousands of walls, hundreds, this is what i imagine

[untold ingot]

But I would prefer smaller numbers for simplicity

[south lance]

id like gear to be cheaper i suppose

[untold ingot]

It should be cheaper, but equally difficult to get

[south lance]

youll still lose all your shit anyhow

at least let us embrace the temporary lives our little bobs have

[blissful perch]

They weren’t. They were build to be an exponential process where you’d need exponentially more materials to make something with marginally less gain. The values aren’t checked or even decided: they’re randomized along a value curve based on the loot quality

[past wind]

Special resources completely fit here

[untold ingot]

Yup, and this is the crux of the issue lol

[past wind]

Create a “reinforced savaged metal wall” where to craft it you need, let’s say, savaged tek items

[untold ingot]

As long as it takes more than 5 c4 to break lol

[south lance]

i mean the actual effort involved with those resources also goes down because of your capped tames, but otherwise fair enough

[blissful perch]

The advantage of the system was that it was SUPER easy to allow costs to scale with whatever the heck loot value you wanted on your server. The down side is weird issues like crafting station slot capping and having plain silly requirements to craft something became pervasive

[past wind]

I believe there won’t be any c4s

[blissful perch]

Sure, but the BP system predates breeding 😅

[south lance]

how long?

[past wind]

Day one

[untold ingot]

Not really, but sure

[south lance]

?

[untold ingot]

A capped anky is no better than a 400% anky

[blissful perch]

The current BP system I believe wasn’t day 1 but it was extremely early in ark’s life

(The randomized alone a curve costs part that is)

[south lance]

time saved before your carry tame has to go back to unload does linearly decrease

[past wind]

I think I got bps on air drops day one

[south lance]

but yes, it doesnt quite match exponential changes in costs

[untold ingot]

Which imo that's how it should be

[blissful perch]

Yes. But I don’t think the costs were hard randomized like they are now based on quality…but it’s been ages. Had to have been a super early days change

[untold ingot]

Better gear should require more farming and more effort to get

Late game items should be harder for late game players to get that early game items for early game players

[blissful perch]

My hope is that very few gear items become blatantly obsolete

[untold ingot]

But structure costs need to balance for botg

[south lance]

its still effectively linear how much time people at various progression stages have to spend to farm X bp corresponding to that stage i think, i couldnt fully describe how tho

[untold ingot]

This would be ideal I suppose

[south lance]

but its not significantly harder to farm a couple sets of decent flak as a solo compared to several hundred sets of capped flak in a beta/alpha

[blissful perch]

You’re comparing apples to oranges

[untold ingot]

I disagree, but I am not going to argue this point because I don't think it's super relevant really

[blissful perch]

You should be comparing a prim flak set and a capped one

[lavish rain]

Very few ideally none

[south lance]

i just wanna compare time investments

[lavish rain]

My gripe would be that there are so many issues with having so many items

[south lance]

ultimately thats the only way to compare difficulty cause resource costs are only as important as their time investment + some less important things related to accessibility

[blissful perch]

Not really. It boils down to how storage and hauling work

Lots of games have a crap ton of resource types. The question is how useful are they and how does a player interface with them

[untold ingot]

I would love for dinos to have saddle bags, and for players to need backpacks or something similar to transport gear lol

Especially since we no longer have implants

[south lance]

making 300 trips to do something vs 1 is ultimately a time issue more than anything else, though at my level of view literally everything in this game is a time issue

[blissful perch]

If you have to haul 400 of each wood type around all the time it’s a huge chore. If you need 40 wood in a pinch and any of the 15 wood types works…and you only sometimes need to trek for special wood A for a rare component I see that as pretty good design

[covert tapir]

so no more having 1k of pure metak inside of your arm? big sadge 😦

[blissful perch]

Agree that time is a horrid balancing knob

[prisma pike]

Pretty sure that kid in the trailer has an implant but okay lol

[split dove]

huh, pretty sure we still do lol as the first trailer showed them

[untold ingot]

Hmm, I hope they don't work then

[blissful perch]

I’d much rather be asked to take a 1-2 hour trip to a rare biome to get a resource then spend 4-5 hours grinding hide next to base

[south lance]

^

[untold ingot]

I want an actual storage system, and transport system. Not a minecraft inventory

[prisma pike]

Only for big things maybe

[south lance]

actually needing to explore and look at something different is so much more tolerable

[untold ingot]

For everything really lol

[split dove]

i shouldn't be able to shove a giant forge up my ass 😂

[covert tapir]

why stop at 1

we can get thousands of forges up our ass

[south lance]

idk the minecraft like inventory is almost necessary for building

[untold ingot]

It's really not

[south lance]

how do you build a forge anywhere nearly as easily otherwise

like, set up a whole scaffolding system and whatever ig

[covert tapir]

its not supposed to be easy

[untold ingot]

Loads of newer games have different building mechanics that make it not necessary

[south lance]

but then you cant adjust for small errors

[blissful perch]

A functional UI is paramount to any game that asks you to juggle resources

[covert tapir]

you think its easy builidng a forge irl

[south lance]

ark is not irl

[blissful perch]

It should be easier to build a forge in a game than irl 😂

[south lance]

i do not want to have medicine mechanics, realistic wound healing, etc

[split dove]

yum yum food heals me

[untold ingot]

Me neither, but I do want better storage and inventory

[covert tapir]

tbh idk if forges are difficult to build lol

[south lance]

they arent conceptually hard

a really cheap forge is just a glorified bucket with a lid and some heat source

main issue is raising heat to some degrees

that requires some physics knowledge i suppose

[winged dome]

Fire hot, good heat

[south lance]

hairdryer for blower

[untold ingot]

Fire is rarely hot enough to melt metal lol

It does take quite a bit usually, especially for more valuable metals

[blissful perch]

Depends a great deal on the metal. But again, the point is that ark isn’t a sim where we’re supposed to experiment with that each time we want to smelt something

It would be nice if storage across a base was synced up so you could open any of them to access all of them

[untold ingot]

Yeah, I don't want it to be too realistic, but there are things that I want to see

[covert tapir]

we dont decide the point of ark, only almighty wildcard-god of forges up our ass, does

[untold ingot]

That would be ridiculously op lol

[blissful perch]

Not sure how it would be OP. It would be convenient

[south lance]

thats what some unofficials do with mods i think

[covert tapir]

bruh animal crossing had that and it sucked balls sucks balls will suck balls

[blissful perch]

Animal crossing also has like 4 inventory slots in a pocket 😂

[untold ingot]

Turrets count as storage. You would be able to instantly refill turrets. That's waaaay op lol

[blissful perch]

In what world would you imply that

Simply don’t class turrets as storage? That was easy

[south lance]

were ammoboxes really op tho

[untold ingot]

Then you put a storage box near turrets, and it's the same thing

[covert tapir]

only pvp people know

[prisma pike]

No cause they take 30 minutes to fill after turrets shot

[blissful perch]

It would be no more op than the ammo box ark 1 already has

[south lance]

oh bruh

[untold ingot]

Full access to every inventory in a base is waaaaaaay more op than an ammo box lol

[blissful perch]

Every storage

Is NOT every inventory

[south lance]

i made it in reference to the turret thing

[prisma pike]

Remember when exo mek could fill turrets lol

[untold ingot]

Same difference

It would be too op

[winged dome]

🍻

[south lance]

the most official release date is just 2023

[prisma pike]

June 26 2023

[winged dome]

Check the pins

[south lance]

he learned of it in a dream

also something microsoft said once

[blissful perch]

You’re asking to reduce turret counts right? Wouldn’t that also be op because it’s easier to fill fewer turrets?

Seems like debatable logic

[untold ingot]

I generally ask to reduce the numbers of everything. That hardly equates to adding a new mechanic

[blissful perch]

I don’t see how ease of access is OP either. So it’s quicker to access what you made…how is that OP?

You still need the bullets, and if you run out you’re still screwed

[untold ingot]

It's easier to grab important stuff and run away too

Easier to popcorn everything

[south lance]

i dont think raids are short enough where thats an issue

[blissful perch]

Pretty sure from the PvP I’ve seen it’s obvious when a lost raid is incoming so you have tons of time to transfer or popcorn most of your stuff unless you’re offline

[untold ingot]

Doesn't mean a mechanic should be added to make it easier to do

[winged dome]

Glad you checked - because there is no release date 😂

But now you know where to look!

[south lance]

we have a year

👍

[blissful perch]

By that logic the search function in your inventory is OP because it makes it easier to find a rare item

[untold ingot]

That is entirely different logic lol

[blissful perch]

It’s QoL to be able to not need to sift through every single storage to find something

[untold ingot]

There is a reason the pull from s+ was not added to official

Some qol stuff that is good for pve, should remain as mods

[south lance]

youd need to change the range for it

[blissful perch]

I’m not asking for a pull function - it has tons of official implications that are negative

[south lance]

cause otherwise you give people access to a literal war room of stuff anywhere they go

[blissful perch]

Synching storages has basically no downside except convenience

[untold ingot]

What you are asking for is more op than a pull

[blissful perch]

Definitely less…with pull you can yank infinite weight anywhere

[untold ingot]

Unless you can't interact with the items

[untold ingot]

Place a random storage box, pull to fill it with your inventory manager

Makes no difference

[blissful perch]

You’re inventing things I never said

[south lance]

make it tied to a structure with X radius

[blissful perch]

The idea is having six vaults next to each other sharing an inventory

[untold ingot]

How

[blissful perch]

At worst all vaults on the same foundation connection share an inventory. That’s it

[south lance]

ark shouldve given us smart homes before they quit updates

[blissful perch]

…how? I’m a bit confused. You just merge the inventories

[untold ingot]

Sharing inventories is a very exploitable bit of math, that's why minecraft only allows 2 to do that

[south lance]

dunno exactly how youd go about exploiting it

[blissful perch]

I’m holding X to doubt the math is exploitable

[prisma pike]

The potential duping with that by taking an item during a merge would be absurd

[south lance]

fair

[blissful perch]

I believe for minecraft it’s 2 because the model for the double chest gets wonky and confusing when you try a triple chest

[south lance]

i dunno why the algo is dupe prone but im not the one with dev kit or knowledge of base code

maybe something with server saves

[prisma pike]

Because technically both inventories stop existing and copy themselves into a larger inventory

[blissful perch]

If that’s a major issue simply require everyone be out of the inventory before a new one can merge

[untold ingot]

There is a lot that makes things dupe prone, copying or sharing inventories is the main one

[untold ingot]

So the qol becomes not qol, because only one person can use it?

[south lance]

i guess copying is inevitable

you can probably set up some sort of system without copying

so itd just be a UI thing

[blissful perch]

What are you talking about? I just said that to MERGE two vaults nobody must be actively using either vault

How on earth do you take that to mean only one person can use a storage unit

[south lance]

the game already stores every structure based inventory you own, just add an alternative route to accessing it

[untold ingot]

I have to be honest, I am not seeing the value of a system like that

[untold ingot]

Lack of a precise explanation of what you mean is the reason

[south lance]

as long as you dont have to actually move then its qol++

[blissful perch]

I think it’s a you problem

[untold ingot]

Are you merging 2 vaults together, or every vault in a base

[blissful perch]

It’s not complicated. If I have to search one “mega vault” instead of six smaller ones for an item, that’s QoL

[south lance]

you can set what inventories are included through some other means

[blissful perch]

The system can extend to be an entire base or just adjacent vaults based on how buggy or difficult it is to do or balance, idc

Even just the most simple iteration of fusing adjacent storages is a massive QoL improvement

[south lance]

fusing would require copying

[untold ingot]

If it is limited to adjecent vaults that combine together then I am fine with it. Otherwise it makes it really really easy to resupply or store kits at the back of a base and insta transfer them to the front

[south lance]

you could just have an access page instead

[untold ingot]

Very exploitable

[blissful perch]

Which I resolved by mandating all players must not be in the inventory for a merge to occur

So the copy wouldn’t matter

[south lance]

i dunno if that necessarily matters

[untold ingot]

If it is just fusing 2 adjecent vaults together, I don't see the value of that

[south lance]

so like, im imagining a dupe scenario would go like, try to get it to merge but then cause some server issue to break the process during the moment

so then the server saves the originals and the copies

[blissful perch]

Right now ark has so few resources that most bases are organized as one vault per resource. Now add 15 wood types etc etc. if I want to find something I don’t want to play hide and seek with my storage setup

[south lance]

before deleting originals

[untold ingot]

Larger stack size?

[blissful perch]

Right, so to fix that simply don’t allow players to access the original while the merge is occurring. It sounds extremely solvable

[untold ingot]

It's not lol

[south lance]

well the player doesnt need to access it

[blissful perch]

Larger stack size won’t matter if I’m looking for one stack of one item in a hack stack of garbage

[south lance]

cause the game needs to create 2 copies

like, no matter what youd need to activate a merge right

[prisma pike]

Vault? For resources? Bro dedis exist.

[south lance]

manually

[blissful perch]

Not in ark 2 - no tek tier

[untold ingot]

Use a search. If you have 600 slots in a vault, and 300 resource types, then you still have 300 slots open

[prisma pike]

I doubt they wouldn't incorporate the same idea at least in some capacity

[blissful perch]

Cool so see above - it’s tedious to search every vault for something

[prisma pike]

Especially considering how much server performance it saves

[untold ingot]

So have a better sorting system?

[south lance]

you just need a separate accessing page that has it all laid out well

[blissful perch]

The point of dedis was to deal with needing stupid amounts of a resource to do something. Raq is turning in his grave at the thought of needing that many of a single resource

[blissful perch]

Could work too, I’m flexible

[south lance]

so say you are looking for a neat chestpiece, search up said chestpiece in accessor page and itll list out every possible vault alongside the chests in it

in a single page

[untold ingot]

Honestly it seems like a lot of work for minimal benefit

[blissful perch]

Some form of improved UI to find where my stuff is would be acceptable

Especially since the number of types of stuff seems to be increasing in ark 2

[south lance]

idk how much extra work itd be tbh

the game alr saves every inventory, you judt retrieve a safe version of that data

[prisma pike]

Auto sorting that puts all wood stacks or whatever next to each other would be nice

[blissful perch]

The hard work would probably be from concepting 😂

[south lance]

you might not even need to have items pullable

just have a marker point to where something is

that would be really fucking helpful imo

[untold ingot]

Have a wood pile for wood storage, an armor stand for kits, a weapon stand for weapons. The issue is solved by having a variety of different storage options rather than a catchall vault

[south lance]

more work on the player

which is why this is qol, less work for player

[untold ingot]

Hardly

[split dove]

oh boy, the fruits of my good game design opinion 🍿

[south lance]

i dont think its necessarily hardly worth it

if you have 10 vaults of armor of varying qualities, and you want just X quality one then this works

[untold ingot]

If they implement a system that requires no inventory management, then I'll be disappointed tbh

[lavish rain]

Of various quality when we are all going to use capped gear

[blissful perch]

Inventory management is gonna be required to a degree, but it doesn’t need to be tedious and irritating

[south lance]

inventory management is sometimes fun but i dont trust tribemates

[blissful perch]

Much as I’d enjoy crashland’s inventory lol

[untold ingot]

I think different types of storage is better than a catchall

[prisma pike]

If they do that they better make those items have very large inventories to make them even worth making over an organized vault

[lavish rain]

You guys are complaining about issues that can be solved by just being teh leader of a 30 man mega tribe

[south lance]

as a solo this isnt necessary since youll have like 4 inventories to manage

[lavish rain]

That's what I did

[prisma pike]

Thirty people isn't mega

[south lance]

i legit talk here more than i play ark

[blissful perch]

Ok but how cluttered will things get? And will it really SOLVE anything? If all armor has to go on an armor rack but you can’t tell what’s on the rack without opening it..:kinda back to square one if you’ve got tons of them

[lavish rain]

In 9 different servers.

[prisma pike]

So 270 members?

[untold ingot]

It's an issue that doesn't NEED to be solved lol

[blissful perch]

It’s an issue that should be solved

[untold ingot]

I don't think so

[south lance]

itd be a neat little thing

its like whistle options

most arent necessary, but they are cool

[lavish rain]

It was around the 150+mark. I had 30 people manage say 2 servers instead of just 1

"I know a guy who knows a guy" so to speak

[untold ingot]

In pve you only need one of each type of armor at most anyway, in pvp, armor is replaceable anyway

[south lance]

betas dont always have super standardized kits cause they are still farming bps

[untold ingot]

Having slight organizational principles suffices for a game like ark imo

[blissful perch]

None of this matters if you only have one vault

[untold ingot]

They suck as players then tbh

[lavish rain]

Omni vault 🧠

[untold ingot]

Yes, until you get inside and lose everything

[south lance]

how is having a base for 2 weeks and not having decent enough bps a skill issue

[blissful perch]

If your tribe is big enough to be insided you’ve likely got more than one storage unit

[south lance]

how to get capped flak bps in under a month

[blissful perch]

Which now gets us into the QoL discussion of “where is X”

[untold ingot]

This idea seems like a great one for a mod, but not for the base game

[lavish rain]

You suck at farming bps?

[south lance]

nah

[untold ingot]

If you are a beta, literally just borrow it lol

[blissful perch]

If I’m solo I can find X because I placed it somewhere. No guarantee the other guys in my tribe though will be as organized

[untold ingot]

If not, run osds

[south lance]

shitty alpha 😢

or at least 0 trust lol

[lavish rain]

This is why you admin lock a room with personal items

[untold ingot]

Either way, I am hoping the BP system is entirely removed lol

[blissful perch]

I’m down

[prisma pike]

Bro just farm gen 2 missions for most of them

[untold ingot]

Personally owned storage then. With different unique storages for resources

[south lance]

no way this actually works that well i havent played in too long

[lavish rain]

Osds are better lmao

[blissful perch]

So if someone grabs something and puts it into a private storage I guess I just don’t know it exists 😂

[prisma pike]

Osds are only good for suit bps and rifle bps

[untold ingot]

For starting flak they are good too

And loads of saddles

[prisma pike]

Yeah cause osds give you bps that can go to 337 damage

Gen 2 bps are literally superior

[lavish rain]

No they fucking arent

[untold ingot]

And take longer to get

[untold ingot]

Don't leave important stuff out then

[prisma pike]

I wanna see your 337 dmg osd fabi

Gen 2 bps have higher caps then regular ones

[lavish rain]

You play official?

[prisma pike]

Yeah

[lavish rain]

I call cap

[untold ingot]

Yes, but you don't need that for starting tribes, you just need something

[blissful perch]

I’ll cap your cap lotus, when did you last open ark

[lavish rain]

I farmed teh hell out of gen2 bos, they are not superior

[untold ingot]

It's not cap lol, gen2 bps can overcap

[prisma pike]

Says the guy who thinks osds are good for bps

[lavish rain]

Like a week ago?

[untold ingot]

It's just rare and takes a long time

[lavish rain]

I never found none

Osds are more fun anyway

[prisma pike]

I've gotten 150+ armor Tek saddle bps from gen 2 missions

[untold ingot]

They literally are. They are not the best. But for any tribe getting established that doesn't have a nice alpha they are the best way to quickly get lots of useful bps

Either way, BP farming methods is an ark1 topic that I hope never comes to ark2

[prisma pike]

Gen 2 missions are faster and gets you points as well, they're also more consistent and are always there.

[lavish rain]

What gen2 mission

[prisma pike]

Velo

[lavish rain]

Now I know for sure your bullshitting

[untold ingot]

You are not guaranteed to get overcap anything from gen2 missions, you are not even guaranteed to get bps from them

You are with an osd

[prisma pike]

You're guaranteed to get at least a few bps from a gen 2 mission lol

[untold ingot]

Not as many as an osd.

[prisma pike]

Most osd bps are bootycheeks and are way too expensive for what they are

[untold ingot]

When establishing a new tribe, momentum is more important than the chance of overcap tek from a velo mission

[prisma pike]

Best flak bps I've gotten from one only had 600 dura and was expensive

[untold ingot]

Osds give more momentum

[untold ingot]

You had bad luck.

[prisma pike]

Oh yeah ik lol

[untold ingot]

Osd flak is no different than any other pre gen2 flak BP.

[prisma pike]

I've ran at least 30 osds in the past months and only gotten like 5 meks lol

[untold ingot]

I got a full set of capped apprentice from osds back in 2021 I think it was. 1500 dura too

[lavish rain]

That's bad luck

[untold ingot]

But this is an ark1 topic

[blissful perch]

Both of these people typing had best not ask about release date

[spice jewel]

ark 2

[mint swan]

Does the "souls like combat" mean Ark 2 is gonna be like Elden Ring with its combat?

[untold ingot]

Maybe

[prisma pike]

Hopefully not

[lavish rain]

That's what it implies

[untold ingot]

Most likely more like Conan tbh

[blissful perch]

Great question…unknown at the moment beyond that we will be seeing blocks parries and staggers

[lavish rain]

I just care about the movement tbh

[blissful perch]

Hoping it’ll be like monster hunter and less like elden ring

[prisma pike]

^

[mint swan]

im more into the building aspects lol.

[untold ingot]

It has to be good, but not too fast lol

[prisma pike]

Hopefully dinos get better movement as well in some capacity since players are

[blissful perch]

Movement ≠ travel times

[prisma pike]

Nobody said that

[untold ingot]

Yeah, I don't want to do 100 point turns on a Rex lol

[lavish rain]

This is why I want teleporters to stay

[untold ingot]

In ark1 for the most part it is

[split dove]

no

[blissful perch]

The movement of an enforcer has tons of potential (just needs to carry momentum after blinks) but it’s not ruining travel times like a maewing

[untold ingot]

Nah

[mint swan]

well now youre just being unreasonable lol

[blissful perch]

@prisma pike gonna refer you to this

[prisma pike]

He said that after this is rigged

[lavish rain]

Keep teleporters if I've reached endgame it just saves time

[blissful perch]

I’d also like it if attacks had more variance

[lavish rain]

This is w h y I want tek

[untold ingot]

Just think of a creature that had good movement in ark one, that wasn't just because it was faster lol

[untold ingot]

Nooooooo

[prisma pike]

Bloodstalker?

[blissful perch]

I’m fine with fast travel but im more interested in that being global rather than fixed to teleporters

[untold ingot]

Bloodstalker was the fastest until maewing

[mint swan]

imagine if taming became more of a beat down mechanic with this implied souls combat. beat a rex into submission rather than force feeding its sleeping body

[blissful perch]

I did. The enforcer has really entertaining movement lol

[prisma pike]

Yeah but it was also very maneuverable

[lavish rain]

Common shifter w take

[untold ingot]

Still counts

[mint swan]

Bloodstalker was my favorite tame. could cover large distance with its web fling, glide over water super fast.

[untold ingot]

Fjordhawk be like 😳, also it broke the game lol

[prisma pike]

Also skiff was and still is the fastest get it right

[untold ingot]

Skiff doesn't count

[prisma pike]

Lol

[blissful perch]

I’d argue the hawk isn’t fast travel so much as death protection 😂

[split dove]

i remember when at the early part of gen 1's launch it could pull the forest and desert titans

[blissful perch]

Then again dying may be the ultimate fast travel tbh

[prisma pike]

Skiffs for ark 2?

[lavish rain]

Til they nerfed it to the ground

[untold ingot]

Before it's crazy nerf it literally was fast travel

They nerfed it to the ground because it was fast travel lol

[lavish rain]

Which made it useless outside fast travel lol

[untold ingot]

If fats travel takes time to load up, (like a fjordur portal) and only works between beds then it's fine imo, as long as cryos are not a thing

And there is a 5 min cool down on the bed once you fast travel on it

[blissful perch]

You could also do the much loved and 100% not problematic Gen 1 style 😂

[untold ingot]

Which is like the fjordur portal, because it is lol

[prisma pike]

Nah just only let us fast travel at a tp in the ship since y'all wanna complain about any other way

[untold ingot]

I don't want fast travel at all lol. I like long travel times

[blissful perch]

Maps 10x bigger than the largest ark maps are gonna make me want fast travel

[prisma pike]

If they're gonna be long make them at least interesting

[untold ingot]

Sure, but it should be limited

[blissful perch]

Fast travel into someone’s base - optimal 🧠

[untold ingot]

You shouldnt have free reign of the map just for spawning in. You should have to get to the spots you want to go organically

[blissful perch]

Unlockable fast travel has been an open world staple for ages, so that’s almost an assumed given if a system like that is added

[lavish rain]

Hence teleporters

[untold ingot]

Not for the survival pvp ones lol

To my knowledge ark is the only survival pvp game with fast travel

[blissful perch]

All…2-3 of them?

There’s not a massive selection or history of that type of game

[untold ingot]

There are way more than 2 or 3 of them lol

Although most are zombie ones lol

[prisma pike]

We got uhhhh, rust, ark, Conan and atlas

[untold ingot]

Dayz, minecraft, miscreated, scum

[blissful perch]

Minecraft as a survival PvP game is a meme. Pls

[prisma pike]

Minecraft lol

[untold ingot]

Tarkov could even count to a degree

[blissful perch]

Tarkov is an extraction PvP game

[untold ingot]

Maybe

Either way, usually they don't have fast travel. Thats usually uniquely a pve mechanic

[blissful perch]

I’ll throw lost oasis into the mix for survival PvP games. But that type of game is super new

There aren’t any hard and fast rules because that type of game is still identifying itself and fixing some major kinks intrinsic to the model

[untold ingot]

While I don't categorically condemn fast travel, it has to be limited and cryos can't be a thing

[untold ingot]

The hard and fast rule is that fast travel is easily exploitable in pvp

Usually

[prisma pike]

Hopefully the new engine and better coding makes cryos less essential for server performance

[untold ingot]

I bet something will take the place, but I am hoping a stable structure or something rather than a pokeball

[prisma pike]

I'm hoping nothing takes the place tbh

[split dove]

keep them in the dark abyss

[untold ingot]

Something has to, if only for server stability

[blissful perch]

Dino storage is a must - pokeballs not so much

[prisma pike]

Nah

[untold ingot]

Yup.

Cryos, fliers, and numbers need a nerf for ark2 to be fun imo

[prisma pike]

The more I play sotf the more I realize I'm right about fliers being ass for the game lol

[blissful perch]

Lmao I’ve been in here for ages saying that

Fliers are a mess for balance. Ab was so damn good in large part due to their absence

[prisma pike]

Fliers weren't that bad until stuff like diving and omnidirectional flight with high speeds became a thing.

[blissful perch]

Wyverns?

[prisma pike]

Wyverns aren't op lol

[blissful perch]

They weren’t op prior to extinction? You sure lol

[prisma pike]

Yeah

Only thing good about them really was that lightnings breath ignored armor

And they were fast

[ripe cedar]

When will wildcard learn to not make the faster creatures also deal the most damage? And have ranged attacks

[potent hull]

they will not learn if they do not make shifter in to a dino then and only then they will learn lol

[ripe cedar]

No, i dont think they should add pokemon, that sounds like a bad idea

[split dove]

pokeballs were already bad enough, now these madmen want actual pokemons?

[potent hull]

no just you to tern in to one in game lol

[lavish rain]

They should add me into the game

[split dove]

go promote your movie

[lavish rain]

No

[blissful perch]

A new creature with my name that performs phase shifting would be awesome

@ripe cedar if you could stop being a hater pls

[lavish rain]

Enforcer with trapinch skin

[blissful perch]

Ok but real talk a more functional burrowing tame would be sick

[lavish rain]

Basilisk gives the fix just fine

[blissful perch]

Excuse you?

It has an awful underground turning radius and can’t climb walls with it

[lavish rain]

Meh I don't see much use for them

[stray elm]

Playing Sons-of-the-Forest, and companions like Kelvin only makes me want humanoid companions in ARK-2.

[lime forge]

Join a good tribe. You can find some great companions that way.

[tropic forge]

although a.i. bumps against walls you made it works great gathering stuff for you while youre busy doing something else, that on ark2 would be a great addiction

[tropic forge]

until the day someone in that tribe decides they should have everything for themselves and leaves you whit almost nothing

[lime forge]

I personally don’t see that going anywhere other than solo mega tribes. I’d much rather it not become a thing.

[tropic forge]

well its great for pve and maybe a little help for pvp but then someone could spot that npc and knowing someone as a base nearby

[marble flame]

whens ark 2 coming out ?

[elfin pumice]

Thats the risk, but if you can claim and protect a certain area, the npc will be safe there

[elfin pumice]

🍻

[limpid kernel]

Will megalosaurus be in ark 2 ? And will they be actually usable during the day

[verbal wind]

we know as much as you do

[untold ingot]

Tf is a solo megatribe lol

[winged dome]

is a solo megatribe

[tropic forge]

i have seeing ppl on ark chat sometimes calling themselves megatribes on pve 🤣 and yes some were solo so guess thats where that name comes from

[untold ingot]

Mega tribe has nothing to do with the amount of resources lol

Even if it did I have never once seen a pve player or group have the same amount of resources as a mediocre mega lol

[tropic forge]

i think they consider themselves "megatribe" cause either they have mega lag castle or mega lag box

[lavish rain]

Megatribe to me is a matter of people. And how many servers you have

[untold ingot]

Big base != mega lol

I wouldn't even count a 20 person tribe to be a mega lol

[lavish rain]

I think 40+ does it

[untold ingot]

Yeah seems reasonable

[lavish rain]

Big base just means big base

At my peak ark game I was on 9 servers each with 30-50 players in the tribe

[untold ingot]

This is ark in 2023, anyone and their pet gerbil can make a massive base lol

[lavish rain]

You really don't need a massive base tbh

[untold ingot]

Massive bases are useless outside of breeding operations. I have had tiny ratholes as successful as an island ice lol

[lavish rain]

Even in pve it just causes the server to crash

Like I know I had some big stuff. But I didn't need no 50 cloners. I had like 20

Speaking of cloners. I think somthing like that should stay in ark 2

It wasn't that busted tbh

[untold ingot]

It is a little bit

It's considerably faster than breeding

[lime forge]

A mega tribe that exists from the existence of npc companions in Ark that do your bidding

[untold ingot]

Can't happen.

[lime forge]

Why couldn’t it happen

[untold ingot]

Because whatever a solo can do, a mega can do at 20x speed or more. Usually way more

Really doesn't matter who the solo is either

[lime forge]

….

Bro

[tropic forge]

well kinda for yes but if so limited for 1 per tribe

[untold ingot]

I don't think cloners should be a thing

[untold totem]

Ooh boy more NPCs that can clog up the server's creature/npc limit until no one tames anymore

We already have automated tames that can auto harvest and fight back

[lavish rain]

Hell no to tek katanas

[untold ingot]

What

[tropic crag]

If anything, I think that Sons of the Forest shows that NPC automation is the next big thing for the genre and should be innovated upon

At least, in the singleplayer side of things I guess

[untold totem]

Not related to ARK 2 lol

[untold ingot]

Watching a video on it, and it seems simplistic. Could be good later, but it doesn't seem to be now

[tropic crag]

But no reason it couldn't be the same for multiplayer with ankys going out and harvesting metal and lugging it back

[untold ingot]

Other than server lag?

[untold totem]

Conan does the same thing with Golems in their new season but it's more of a "make your own robot"

[untold ingot]

And no practical reason for which a dinosaur would do an automated task by itself lol

[tropic crag]

It's really basic, but honestly should've been implemented far sooner

[untold totem]

Harvesting and Defense

[tropic crag]

This is a non-issue if the servers are just better and/or the NPC count isn't inflated a fuck like Ark 1 was, you gotta admit 😂

[untold ingot]

Server lag is never a non issue lol

[tropic crag]

"Oh yeah, let's have 30 raptors here for no reason other than for the meme"

You're ignoring the point

[untold ingot]

Yes because a wild dinosaur should be able to do useful things by itself

[blissful perch]

There’s a lot of extremely simple automation that tames could do

[untold totem]

I remember the massive egg explosion that actually clogged the server's tame limit in Gen 2

[tropic crag]

Which means I'm right

[untold ingot]

Yes, but harvesting is not one of them

[tropic crag]

W

[blissful perch]

They already do that in ark 1

[untold ingot]

Not really

[past wind]

I think that’s why they are planning a creature manager system. Probably tames won’t be laying around anymore.

[untold totem]

You can with some tame lol

[blissful perch]

Objectively they do Raq lol

[untold totem]

Doeds can auto harvest

[untold ingot]

You can't send them out to auto harvest things. You still have to tell them where to go

Auto swinging is not automated harvesting

[blissful perch]

The most basic form of automation is automating a single task

[past wind]

The gigantopithecus does that

[untold totem]

They do, just let them roam

[untold ingot]

You still have to stand around and watch them

[untold totem]

Theris, doeds, beavers, monkeys, and anks can do all that

[blissful perch]

Like any other primitively automated thing?

[untold totem]

No, they still auto harvest until they reached the limit

Even off render

[blissful perch]

It’s like any early game setup in an automation game - something that harvests X until it’s full and needs you to empty

[untold ingot]

I think it's objectively obvious that the npc pet in forest is significantly different than a doed autoswinging

[blissful perch]

These tames can wander around and harvest until full. They just don’t know to return anywhere or dump their haul

[untold ingot]

They get lost, dinos in ark1 on wander, even if they swing is not auto harvestinf

[untold totem]

The only difference is you have to empty them

And that is it

[untold totem]

Leash FTW

[untold ingot]

It is not even remotely useful unless you carry them in an argy

[past wind]

Using leashes help

[untold ingot]

At that point you may as well just manually harvest lol

[past wind]

Indeed. Auto harvest on Ark isn’t efficient 🤣

[untold totem]

They auto swing and the resources is in their inventory

That is "harvesting" is it not?

If it's just a swing, it's more destroying the nodes

[past wind]

Only mods improve on that regard

[blissful perch]

Auto harvest ≠ auto mat grinding

It would be nice if your tames could deposit stuff, but the most simple form of automation doesn’t mandate that

[untold ingot]

The idea was that dinos automate material gathering for you. They objectively do not do that in ark1. Regardless of an autoswing you still have to manually deal with everything lol

[untold totem]

Since mods are gonna be in consoles as well

Auto Harvesters are gonna be better than vanilla

[tropic crag]

That's... not how it works, it's still automation lmao

[blissful perch]

The idea was that they’d fill their inventory with nearby mats they can auto harvest. Which they do. It’s just never enough to practically do anything with ark 1’s stupid mat requirements

[untold ingot]

Auto harvesters should not be in vanilla

[untold ingot]

No

[tropic crag]

Some L takes here today, starting the day off wrong

[untold ingot]

There is literally no automation in ark1

[split dove]

i found out my hearing is slightly worse in one ear today, sadly didn't lose my vision for this disastrous chat rng

[untold totem]

It will be the standard

Now that most survival games have their own variation of "auto NPCs"

[untold ingot]

For sp sure. For multi-player no

[tropic crag]

Aka, everyone is still Ark 1-brained, as usual

[split dove]

nothing surprising tbh

[untold totem]

Conan may have it, Sons of The Forest has it, even ARK 1 has it (a be it basic compared to the other examples)

[untold ingot]

Saying ark1 has it is a stretch

The forest is meant to play solo or with a small group

[untold totem]

I said 'basic' for a reason lol

[untold ingot]

Conan has said they'll have lots of things, and they rarely delivef

[untold totem]

It's part of chapter 3, so... Yes they will have an auto Harvester

[untold ingot]

They also barely have a multi-player playerbase

Definitely nothing like ark

Automation (without severely stretching the word) takes up a lot of server performance and is not really suitable for multi-player ark imo

[untold totem]

you'll be surprised by the sheer number of high pop ERP servers exist

But back to ARK 2

[untold ingot]

I am talking ark2...

[tender flint]

Ark 2 pvp will be more melee focused?

[untold totem]

No one knows

[untold ingot]

Check the steam page

[tender flint]

no doubt

[untold ingot]

That is the impression everyone gets

[tender flint]

ty

[lime forge]

That was in regards to having npc companions that can harvest for you. A solo mega tribe in this sense would be a solo player utilizing NPCs to match numbers of an actual tribe. I feel like that would be obvious had you read the context of the discussion.

[untold ingot]

We had a discussion of how that does not constitute anything near a mega, also that it would be impractical to have that level of automation in a multi-player game like ark

[lime forge]

I agree it would be impractical, but it’s what would happen if ai harvesting was implemented. Currently auto harvesting is just a step above solo harvesting because in the end you are still required to be involved. Given free reign, npc harvesting would absolutely match a large tribes production numbers without requiring a large tribe’s population.

It just has no place in the game.

[untold ingot]

There is loads more needed to match a large tribes production, and resource gathering is probably the smallest factor lol

[lime forge]

Like what? Moving it from one inventory into the fabricator and work bench?

[untold ingot]

Breeding/building

Both take longer and more skill than just resource gathering

Neither can be automated on official

[lime forge]

Resource gathering is easily one of the largest factors in a tribes success. It limits literally every single aspect of gameplay in Ark currently.

[untold ingot]

It is not lol

[lime forge]

Less resources means less good armor, less good weaponry, less ammo, less taming materials, less breeding materials.

[untold ingot]

Resources in ark1 pvp are literally dirt cheap

[tropic crag]

I mean, you need resources to make things, so it kinda is lmao

[untold ingot]

Raiding is way better than farming for resources anyway

[lime forge]

That’s less resources to raid with, less resources to build with. It’s literally less actual gameplay.

[untold ingot]

Yes, but it's not a huge percentage of the time people spend

You don't need lots of resources to raid. Especially earlygame

And there are always early game raids to do

[tropic crag]

Because breeding is stupid long in Ark 1, sure. But that by no means trivializes the need for materials just because of the comparison

[lime forge]

Maybe if you’re raiding bobs. The only way to raid an alpha is to throw resources at it unless you’re cheating

[tropic crag]

Since when were we talking about early game, anyway? Lol

[split dove]

this chat shifts topics more than lotus when he's under influence

[untold ingot]

We are talking ark pvp. Early game is anything before you have a wall of 100 turrets capped

[untold ingot]

That doesn't mean resource gathering is the among the most important uses of time lol

[tropic crag]

Then I have nothing left to talk to you about on the matter LMAO

[lime forge]

That absolutely does.

[untold ingot]

It takes literally half an hour to farm 1 million metal in ark currently

That same half an hour can get 100k poly easy, 1 million stone, or a slot cap of electronics

It takes way more dedicated time to build a base well, or get Dino lines and such

Farming has to be done, but it is not the most important thing to do lol

[lime forge]

Right. So if one person is currently farming 1 million metal in half an hour, then how much are 10 people farming in a half an hour?

10x more.

[untold ingot]

With 1 million metal you can offline any base in the world.

[tropic crag]

r/whoosh

[lime forge]

If you aren’t burning more ammo from a turret wall in an hour than a tribe can refill in an hour then you’re at a deficit and are doomed for failure.

[untold ingot]

Soaking is not the raiding meta lol

[lime forge]

Off-lining bobs is yeah?

The point remains the same

[untold ingot]

No, rocket running is

Or tek rexing

[lime forge]

At the end of the day resource generation is king. It’s true for literally every economy both real and fictional.

[untold ingot]

There is a lot more to resource generation than a metal farm

[lime forge]

If you can’t tear something down faster than someone can put it up then your raid is gonna fail,

[untold ingot]

Which is why rocket running is the meta

[lime forge]

Rocket running is fantastic if the enemy is at work or sleeping yes.

[untold ingot]

In any case, regardless of the effort, a mega will always, always beat a solo, even if the solo has infinite tames and resources

[untold ingot]

Have you ever raided? Or seen raids?

[lavish rain]

And yall call me the crazy one

[lime forge]

I likely have more hours specifically defending bases and raiding bases then you have in Ark in general

[untold ingot]

And you think rocket running only works in an offline?

[lavish rain]

@lime forge @untold ingot I'd like yall to see how many hour you each got

[lime forge]

Yeah. Rocket running an online tribe is essentially delivering them however many rockets you have left after you inevitably get bodied. In the run.

[untold ingot]

2 rockets, 1 set of flak, maybe a grapple and beer. Literally the cheapest thing ever lol

[untold ingot]

I am sure you would lol 😂

[lavish rain]

Like I know I am a degenerate. But from the sounds of it it sounds like yall dedicated your entire lives to the game at some point

[lime forge]

Yeah you’re gonna get bodied, and if anymore than one person is online every bit of damage you managed to do, is gonna be rebuilt and then some before your respawn timer runs out,

[untold ingot]

Maybe. If they are good and quick on the rebuild

[untold ingot]

I had a year that I did nothing but ark every day for like 16 hours a day lol

[lavish rain]

How tf did u pay bills

[untold ingot]

I couldn't lol, I couldn't even get out of bed lol

[lavish rain]

Then who did

[untold ingot]

I am not going to spill my whole life story in ark2 chat lol 😂

I was really sick though, so I had to do something to keep from going crazy

[lavish rain]

Fair

[untold ingot]

I got cracked at the game during that time lol, as you can imagine. My skill level now is way lower because I haven't really touched pvp since except occasionally

[lavish rain]

I did the math, you have around 6k hours in the game

[untold ingot]

In that one year yeah, that sounds about right

[lavish rain]

Don't you dare tell me you have more then 10k

[untold ingot]

I think 8 or 9k probably

[lavish rain]

Back to ark 2, I suggest new borrow tames. Basilisk dosent do it

[untold ingot]

Burrow?

Yeah I would like that

[stray elm]

That's what I'm saying!

Imagine sending out a Aratai to go harvest metal, while the players in a tribe do more important shit like crafting, building, taming, etc.

[split dove]

and on pvp someone kills your Aratai called Ash bc their iq mistook it for a hostile wild one 😂

[stray elm]

Okay, that's when painting and armor dyes come in handy.

[split dove]

it's the Ark community, you need floating name tags in red for them to understand

[lavish rain]

Even then you don't know

[stray elm]

I feel like ARK-2 needs to up its game if it wants to 'reinvent the survival genre'
Cause Sons-of-the-Forest is kind of already doing that.

[stray elm]

Fair

[lavish rain]

How so

[past wind]

So... well... last day friday in february

any chance we will get new tidbits?

[split dove]

unlikely as we got carno last week

[stray elm]

The AI in the game is fucking astounding (besides the pathfinding.)
Kelvin will do whatever you say to the T, but also do his own shit inbetween, like pick up berries and eat them, drink from a river if he's near one, lay down near a active campfire or even sleep next to it.
The cannibals have also heavily been improved with their AI, and I fucking swear they know how to deceive you, cause some fucker knocked on my house and I came out and saw a cannibal, and he just fucking ran away.
Fucker played 'ding-dong ditch'

[past wind]

next friday the window for the roadmap will be open

[stray elm]

Not only the AI, but the building is by far the best I've seen in a survival game.
Heavily interactable.

[split dove]

''we've come to ask if you were interested in our girl scout cookies''

[stray elm]

Damn, if I knew that I'd get some

[untold ingot]

It seems to be improvements, but not re inventing lol

[stray elm]

Better AI then most, if not all survival games.

[untold ingot]

But still not amazing imo 😅, but I have only seen videos

[stray elm]

So yeah, kind of does reinvent it if other studios still want to make generic as fuck 'attack if sees player' AI

[stray elm]

Videos don't do justice.

[untold ingot]

Fair

[past wind]

Talking about Sons, I hope Ark 2 comes with some pre-built buildings BPs

Would make it faster for begginers to learn about the building system

[stray elm]

May I send you a video?

[past wind]

I mean basic buildings

[untold ingot]

Sure

[stray elm]

Point isn't 100% how smart the AI are, but the standard that needs to be increased for survival games, which this genre specifically relies on both NPC and player interactions.

[untold ingot]

I mean, from what I have seen the Kelvin thing is not a smart ai as ai go

I'm sure the nuts and bolts of how they did it are complicated, but it doesn't really seem like an ai.

[past wind]

Based on the description so far, I think the Ark 2 creatures will have the ability to hunt. That alone will improve a lot the survival aspects of the game

[stray elm]

As actual AI goes, yes.
But the point that you're not getting is he's pretty damn smart for an AI in the survival genre, which like I just said above, relies heavily on AI and player interactions.

[untold ingot]

I agree that the standard needs to increase, but tbh other than ark most survival games are just glorified zombie survival that takes little to no actual ai

[stray elm]

So the standard of AI's like Kelvin need to be more of the norm, then generic AI's you'll see in most survival games

[untold ingot]

So the bar has been rock bottom really

[stray elm]

And why should it stay like that, is the point

[untold ingot]

It shouldn't

In any game lol

[stray elm]

Right.
So my point is, Sons-of-the-Forest does reinvent the survival genre when it's standards isn't rockbottom.

[untold ingot]

The tech available in 2023 is so far advanced to what was bossible in 2016, and earlier, that there is really no excuse for any new game to not have good npc ai

[lavish rain]

Damn, bossible tech

Revolutionary

[untold ingot]

Lol

Gotta love the bossible tech, gotta hate spellcheck lol

[broken flower]

When does ark 2 come out?

[winged dome]

🍻

[blissful perch]

Yea to be clear about my point - while it is simple automation, it’s functionally useless to an ark 1 player because it gathers very little and can’t repeat itself without manual emptying…which means it’s better to just do it all yourself

For ai, it boils down to how relevant it is for a player to interface with it. Nobody is gonna care if ark 1’s creature AI was top notch because it would lag servers out or be flat out ignored because everything in ark 1 is a walking bag of hide and meat

[blissful perch]

Is the genre reinvented or is the series reinvented? I feel like you can have companions in other survival games right?

[south lance]

minecraft

[blissful perch]

If ark 2 can pull off complex ecosystems with pack (or even true multi sensory) AI that’s a pretty big shift in the genre

[south lance]

i think at some point any morr automation reduces the survival aspect and turns a game into more of a sandbox

[blissful perch]

Boils extremely heavily down to what the automation is and how it’s incorporated into the gameplay

[stray elm]

Not really.
Most survival games I know have simple stationary companions, not actual good ones.

[south lance]

you can have a survival sandbox technically but its really just a sandbox with grind (grind to endgame)

[blissful perch]

That’s ark 1

[south lance]

maybe

im not sure where it wouldnt be the case

[blissful perch]

Lots of survival games have “collector” or “farm” tech that automates what you used to have to gather by hand

[south lance]

yes and that reduces how much of a survival experience those games can be imo

[blissful perch]

But the gameplay doesn’t center around optimizing or building out increasingly complex automation - that sort of gameplay is better suited for factorio

[blissful perch]

I’d argue it’s normal if you want progression

[south lance]

fair enougu

i think the game definitely is better for it

[blissful perch]

If a player has X time to spend…having them spend all of it gathering a basic resource at the start of the game is alright, but if you want them to gather advanced resources you may want to give them a way to simplify or automate basic resource gathering (as an example)

[south lance]

maybe im emphasizing semantics too much idk

that whole progressioj system of needing more of a low tier resource, wonder if many games shirk that route

like i think some solo games do, instead of farming a ton of low tier shit you explore for a better item

[blissful perch]

Depends a ton on the specific game

[south lance]

i dont think this has any use for ark2 since its almost guaranteed to require farming

but generally i think people love the latter method of progression more across i think any game

[blissful perch]

Ark 2 could rely on more collectors/farmers and less on manual bulk material gathering but who can say

I’d argue that if you want to make the AI more complex and the combat more engaging you’d want the loot from such encounters to be higher value per kill

So by nature more time is spent getting to and accessing hide rather than spent hauling it around

[south lance]

true

im gonna go back to finishing my last minute assignment

[lavish rain]

And making booze

[south lance]

[potent hull]

i hop music in ark2 will be better then ark 1

[blissful perch]

Ark 1 music was insanely good

[lavish rain]

No

[tight nest]

I'm sure it will be 🤞

wait is it gonna come out on ps4/5 (I don't think games are coming out on 4 anymore, could be wrong)

apologies if it was already talked abt LOL

[split dove]

if/when it comes to ps it will be next gen only so PS5 only

for now it's a timed early access launch exclusive period for PC and Xbox series x/s when it releases

[tight nest]

OHH ty makes sense

[split dove]

mostly bc of timed exclusive contract with microsoft and sony not liking early access games that much

[split dove]

Gareth has no pun intended **evolved **the music over Ark 1's lifetime, i'm positive it will either be the same insanely good quality or even better. we've only really had one track so far i think

[winged dome]

🍻

Never stopped anyone else from asking

[mint swan]

Is ark 2 gonna do cross platform because I’ve got alot of friends who play ark on other platforms

[winged dome]

Cross platform PC and Xbox, PS unknown at this time

[mint swan]

Ok

[flint bay]

Ark 2 not coming out for some years 💀

Hopefully it’s like ark 1 and has Dino’s to tame and caves to build and not just thatch bases on the beach

[split dove]

For Playstation likely yh. Read the steam page, same core mechanics like taming and survival and some updated and new mechanics

[potent hull]

flobs i hop we get new next month on ark 2 if not we will tack over ark we got the numbers to do now you will be the new ark king flobs lol

[junior adder]

Will server hosting in ark 2 be free

(I would assume not)

[lime forge]

We don’t know. But I would assume not as well.

Well. I highly doubt hosting a dedicated or non dedicated would be any different than it is now at least.

[untold ingot]

Self hosting probably will be free. Using a hosting service definitely will not be free

[verbal wind]

the cost is having a good computer and connection

[mint swan]

Hey, can we please get some gameplay teaser?

the way you advertise it seems too good to be true lol

[untold ingot]

I mean, they haven't advertised too much yet, but I am hoping that it is true lol

[drowsy hamlet]

Will this support vr I wanne try that in ark not gonna lie

😳

[stray elm]

Doubt, since it'll be third person

[drowsy hamlet]

:(

[untold ingot]

Imagine a third person vr game

[drowsy hamlet]

Well at least I won't have to buy a vr headset for 1500 euros then

[untold ingot]

Yeah, don't waste money on vr lol

[drowsy hamlet]

I mean it do still be scary getting them raptors after you

[mint swan]

Using arrows and any sort of projectile is going to suck in this game cuz of the third person thing lol

[winged dome]

Plenty of 3rd person games use projectiles just fine

[astral token]

No.

[elfin pumice]

Camera might have to momentarily shift to fp if theres any very long ranged weapon though

[untold ingot]

Really hope there isn't

[elfin pumice]

Me too

[past wind]

Usually tp games do that when using scopes, for example

[untold ingot]

I really hope there is not any ranged weapons that use scope

[elfin pumice]

They do that because theres a physical scope that is useless unless you look directly through it. I dont know of any tp game that switches you to fp when aiming unless youre using a scope, which will probably not be in ark 2

Im talking about switching to fp with a longbow or something

[untold ingot]

Really hope not tbh

[elfin pumice]

You cant really aim far away in tp

[untold ingot]

That is what I am wanting

Ark1 is way to easy because you can aim from far away lol

I want a different kind of game that isn't an fps. Because I am bored of fps games

[elfin pumice]

That is mainly because of hitscan weapons. Long ranged projectile weapons would only benefit highly skilled players

[untold ingot]

Hitscan or not. There are loads of fps games out there and I am above average on most of them. I get bored of it

I would much rather have something totally different

[elfin pumice]

An arrow wont travel nearly as fast as a bullet

[untold ingot]

Especially because I don't forsee myself playing pvp anymore. A shooter pve is ridiculously easy

[untold ingot]

And? It's still not hard

[elfin pumice]

Hitting a moving target at 150+ m with a bow and arrow isnt hard?

[untold ingot]

Don't have to hit a 150+ shot

Only have to hit a 50

Or a 30

[elfin pumice]

If youre sniping then yes

[untold ingot]

If it's a melee mostly game, then 30 meters is sniping lol

[elfin pumice]

Wasnt this conversation about long ranged combat?

[elfin pumice]

I can throw a stone 30 m away. Its not sniping

[untold ingot]

Again, if most combat is melee, then 30 meters is plenty for beating them lol

[elfin pumice]

That is assuming most combat will be melee

[untold ingot]

Why do I need a 150 shot when a 30 shot out ranges

[untold ingot]

That is what is implied and that is what I want

[elfin pumice]

So all your arguments are based on an assumpion?

Im 100% sure that there will be bows

Maybe even crossbows

So 30 m isnt long ranged combat

[untold ingot]

It's based on the assumption that most combat is melee. And for pve it probably will be

[elfin pumice]

How have you reached this conclusion?

[untold ingot]

Because rexes don't shoot bows...

[elfin pumice]

Humans do. Its s basic hunting strategy

[untold ingot]

Lol, no

Using a ranged weapon is not strategy

[elfin pumice]

English isnt my first language so my definition of strategy may be incorrect, but im pretty sure it is a strategy

[untold ingot]

Use of a weapon is not strategy

It's just use of a weapon

[elfin pumice]

"A hunting strategy, or hunting method, is a tactic that is used to target, pursue, and hunt an animal."

Strategy or not, long ranged combat is very important for survival

You arent hunting a para with an axe

[untold ingot]

In ark1

I am hoping ark2 is different

[elfin pumice]

You hope to be able to hunt a para with an axe in ark 2?

[winged dome]

Pretty sure even the choice of weapons is strategy. If someone has a bow, I'd think twice about rushing them if I only had a knife

[untold ingot]

I am hoping that it is not just an fps. As I have made it abundantkh clear

[elfin pumice]

How are you hunting then?

[untold ingot]

Use of weapon is strategy. Simply firing a weapon is not

[elfin pumice]

And fp would only be for very long range weapons

[untold ingot]

I don't want ig

It makes games too easy

[elfin pumice]

Its a survival game

You need to hunt

[winged dome]

Depends on the capabilities of the weapon. If headshots deal more damage, then it takes strategy (albeit, not much) to know to aim for the head or other weak points. Shoot the legs to slow the target down to make an escape or an easier kill, ect

[untold ingot]

Takes skill, not strategy

[winged dome]

Skill to shoot the head, strategy to know to aim for it

[untold ingot]

Go play monster hunter. You hund just fine without ranged weapons. Go play conan even lol

[elfin pumice]

How do you use a bow without firing it

[untold ingot]

I don't want a ranged meta, because the game is too easy

[elfin pumice]

Its unrealistic to expect otherwise

[untold ingot]

Why

[elfin pumice]

Bc its a survival game

[untold ingot]

Read the steam page and the announcements, and tell me what part implies a ranged meta?

[untold ingot]

It is not so far lol

[elfin pumice]

Its implied in the genre itself

How are you hunting a para with an axe

[untold ingot]

Again, ark2 is not listed anywhere credible as a survival game yet

[untold ingot]

You seem very fixated in hunting paras with axes

[snow wadi]

J a personal hope, but I need to see my beloved para in ark 2

[split dove]

there were models for normal bows, so it's 99% likely to be there

[untold ingot]

I don't want it to be the meta

[elfin pumice]

It literally says "survival" in the game tags on steam

[past wind]

New combat system

[elfin pumice]

Cause it works

[past wind]

More strategy, less pew pew pew

[elfin pumice]

Being stealthy and using long ranged combat is a strategy

[untold ingot]

You get that those are added by normal people and not wildcard?

[past wind]

Not a primitive era strategy

[untold ingot]

Sure, it's just too easy

[elfin pumice]

i would expect wc to say something if the steam page wasnt accurate

[untold ingot]

Why would they say something about user defined tags... They didn't put them in

[elfin pumice]

Wdym user defines tags?

[winged dome]

Literally the first word on the Steam page description 🤔

[past wind]

This time you are wrong, they've said that on their Founders thing june last year and I quote their title: "Redefining the Survival Genre with ARK 2 and an Update from our Studio Founders"

[winged dome]

'Survive the past. Tame the future. Suddenly awakened on a primal world filled with dinosaurs and humans struggling for dominance(...)'

[elfin pumice]

Is steam info not reviewed by the devs?

[untold ingot]

Okay, fair point. But exactly what about survival requires a ranged meta

[untold ingot]

Learn how tags work

[past wind]

On that regard you are completely right

[winged dome]

I agree, I don't want to see a ranged meta - nothing official implies it will be

It should be viable, but everything should be in some respect

[elfin pumice]

Having ranged weapons doesnt make them the only viable option

[untold ingot]

Tbh, having them be equally good does make them the only viable option

[elfin pumice]

They could be good at taking down large creatures, but bad at dealing with smaller ones

[winged dome]

I don't think anyone is saying they should be equal

[untold ingot]

This is exactly what I don't want

[elfin pumice]

If theyre equaly good theyre not the only viable option

[untold ingot]

If they are equally good with damage then the range difference makes ranges the only viable option

[elfin pumice]

I dont think it should be nearly as easy to take down a rex with a bow than with a pike

[untold ingot]

Equally good ranged and melee means ranged is superior

[untold ingot]

You should not be able to take down a Rex with a bow

[elfin pumice]

By definition they wouldnt be equally good

Equally good menas equally good in total number of scenarios and with range into consideration

[untold ingot]

I am tired of this argument, come up with something better. I don't want good ranged weapons, and there is nothing in the steam page to imply that there will be good ranged weapons

[elfin pumice]

Melee weapons could be really good at killing small dinos like raptors cause theyre way easier to aim and could stun them more

You arent hitting an agile raptor with a bow

[untold ingot]

I am hitting an agile raptor with a bow

[winged dome]

If anything, ranged would be better for smaller creatures. One arrow is dealing a lot more damage to a Raptor compared to a Rex

[elfin pumice]

If you are very skilled then yes, but it wouldnt be viable for the average player. If you are very skilled you could also kill a rex with a pike, but it wouldnt be viable for the average player

[winged dome]

Unless we're talking like Monster Hunter bows, or Anor Londo Great Bows

[elfin pumice]

Not if the raptor is smart enough to not stay still

Or come at you in a straight line

[elfin pumice]

I wanted to reply to this message btw

[untold ingot]

Any moderately decent player can hit headshot on raptors that are charging, if you can't, then that is a skill issue. That doesn't mean that ranged weapons should work against rexes

[elfin pumice]

How do bows work in mh

[elfin pumice]

I hope the ai is good enough to not come make a pack lf raptors come at you in a straight line

[untold ingot]

Bruh, it won't matter lol. I have headshot guys off maewings at full speed going perpendicular to me. A pve raptor, regardless of its ai is not as hard a shot to hit

If ranged is the meta it'll be too easy

[elfin pumice]

So you are in fact more skilled than the average player

[untold ingot]

I said that didn't I? But even the average player can hit raptors

[south lance]

it helps to have frames

[winged dome]

They're really big, and arrows to match

[south lance]

the majority of people ik who play ark pvp have decent rigs

[winged dome]

And it takes like ... 500+ arrows to drop a Monster

[elfin pumice]

A pack of raptors will probably notice you before you notice them and will try to ambush or something

[untold ingot]

That is a skill issue

Not a game issue

[elfin pumice]

You sound like a cocky dark souls player

[untold ingot]

Tell me I am wrong

[south lance]

youre wrong

[potent hull]

ark 2 you should be playing

[south lance]

boom

the biggest issue with ranged in ark is hitreg

[untold ingot]

I don't usually like to come across as cocky, but seriously

[elfin pumice]

You arein fact more skiled than the average player, for the 3rd time

[south lance]

the actual hitbox is usually a decent bit in front of the visible hitbox

and if you have shitty computer then you also wont be able to accurately guage small changes in movement cause lack of fps

[untold ingot]

Than the average pve player yes. Than the average cod player yes. Than the average pvp ark player? No. I am about average

[untold ingot]

There is truth to this

[elfin pumice]

I love when an ovis completely ignores the 10 cm of arrow penetrating its brains

[south lance]

part of its also just experience

actually all of this is experience

despite hitscan you still need to lead

cause performance and maybe latency idk about the latter part

[untold ingot]

The reason I don't want a ranged meta, is because everyone and their dog is ridiculously good at ranged weapons in games, because the average gamer has like 5k or more hours of practice just doing ranged weapons. It's time for a change of pace to a play style that doesn't make the game too easy

[south lance]

also in pvp especially ark players are way harder to hit than most games

even ignoring game bugs and stuff. cause even moving sideways ark players are way faster than players in other games

[untold ingot]

Yup, and people still consistently manage to do it

[south lance]

thats valid too

but i think this might change with 3p view maybe

[untold ingot]

A good pvp player with a ranged weapon is a God cod sniper lol

[south lance]

depends if the actual gun and where the crosshair is are misaligned

[untold ingot]

True, that is a game issue though

[south lance]

also hitscan makes the ceiling basically infinite

projectiles at least allow dodging to be a thing

[untold ingot]

Bows should be a secondary, not primary weapon imo. Good for raptors and bobs, terrible against anything bigger

[south lance]

melee against bulkier creatures should be a thing

[untold ingot]

Maybe an eye shot on a Rex, but there is no way someone's ragtag bow made in the woods could kill a rex

[south lance]

ranged should be effective against fast stuff, melee against tanks

i think that design philo is already existent in wc

highest dps being from melee, though shotguns are pretty good

[elfin pumice]

Fighting a tank melle and on foot will probably get you killed

[south lance]

well itd depend on how hit aoe works

so like

[elfin pumice]

I hope dodges and rolls dont have i frames

[untold ingot]

Not if the movement and hitboxes are up to par

[elfin pumice]

True

[south lance]

maybe you bring a super agile dino with enough hp to survive one or two bites, but has abilities to dodge and completely avoid said bites if youre good enough

and someone with decent ranged can murk you

[elfin pumice]

Bleed would probably work very well to kill large dinos

[south lance]

rock paper scissors

[elfin pumice]

Like ripping off its flesh

[south lance]

ofc people riding big dinos will just bring ranged

but the balance is possible

and theres probably other routes

[untold ingot]

Ranged should be ineffective against big dinos, period

[lime forge]

Skills should determine what’s effective against what period

[south lance]

all the big dinos we have seen are super spikey and stuff

[untold ingot]

Unless it's maybe a ridiculously hard shot

[elfin pumice]

Probably better than what i said earlier tbh

Inless you hit an eye shot or something

I agreed with you

[untold ingot]

Everyone going in from ark1 to ark2 has the same basic skills.

[untold ingot]

Yeah, I noticed after

[elfin pumice]

np

[lime forge]

Skills like skill tree skills.

[south lance]

ark2 needs to dis incentivize ranged or else we will see the same sweats dominate

[untold ingot]

I am so used to you disagreeing with me that I didn't notice it 😅😅

[elfin pumice]

Ranged skills yes

[south lance]

or at least make alternative modes of play more viable

[elfin pumice]

Melee combat is very diferent

[south lance]

actually now that i think about it

[untold ingot]

If there is a skill tree skill that makes ranged become practical, then that is all people will use

[south lance]

itll be basically impossible to 0revent sweats from dominating given that ark combat is so fucking fast

this means theyll adapt to rapid and complex melee

esp since everyone has positioning experience with dinos

[elfin pumice]

Ranged should be about hitting key spots on a target and not damage

[lime forge]

The meta is gonna exist one way or another. Forcing players who enjoy range to use melee weapons and vice versa is just bad business

[elfin pumice]

Like incapacitating a leg or something

So you cant kill something just by spamming arrows form a safe distance

[lime forge]

This is almost exactly what I’m hoping for

[untold ingot]

This is true. But I want the change for pve, since I probably won't go back to pvp

[velvet willow]

Ark 2 2 realistic

[untold ingot]

It will look realistic. It won't play realistic

[wanton pike]

Ark 2 to be released in 2026, get hyped everyone ♥️

[winged dome]

Proof?

[potent hull]

what if wild card mad a game system will it be name ark or new name

[blissful perch]

Ranged weapons will be relevant because it won’t risk the user. It’ll be extremely difficult to break that intrinsic quality

If I can stand on a bluff and shoot down it onto a creature or player, I have an advantage. The question will instead become one of how the defending player reacts…is it better to equip a ranged weapon or is it better to close the distance and engage at melee range?

A huge part of ark 1’s ranged superiority lay in 1.) hitscan being the most reliable way to hit anything 2.) any player at melee range against a tame (usually the way melee damage was dealt) almost instantly died 3.) there is nearly no way to close the distance to a ranged attacker

[untold ingot]

Ranged will always be relevant because it is the easiest safest way to engage a fight. It should be harder to do by making ranged less viable against bigger tames

[blissful perch]

That’s always going to be the case if the large tames have high hp and/or take reduced ranged damage

Removing the hitscan and mandating weakspots may be a helpful way to make ranged less ubiquitous…but it’ll always be relevant. May as well make aiming it possible

Even in MH the ranged perspective changes your third person orbital to third person over the shoulder

[untold ingot]

In ark one it's not the case. Comp bows and shotguns absolutely shred tames

I want to avoid items like that

[blissful perch]

Armor piercing ranged weapons and burst damage ranged weapons would certainly run counter to large creatures being resistant to ranged

Then again ark 1 has issue 2. I highlighted above. If a melee tame reaches a player, they’re usually in trouble…you can’t really win or even try to win a fair melee fight

[winged dome]

Unchecked power creep on both sides

[blissful perch]

Breeding is partly to blame, but ark 1 also has extremely simple melee

[winged dome]

And awful durability mechanics for armor

[blissful perch]

You simply can’t win in a fair melee fight against a tame. But you can certainly win by standing far away

All the armor does is give you time to create distance again…since it’s still not enough to survive against a tame to melee it down in a fair fight lol

[untold ingot]

The hope is that melee actually works, or if not, hiding works

If someone comes at you with a Rex and you have a bow and arrow, you shouldn't win. You shouldn't win with a sword either