ark-2

[blissful perch]

The charges are fixed for each bed

[untold ingot]

Yes, but they are all separate distinct calculations. Done with a single integer calculation

[blissful perch]

Yes, so do the same thing with beds

[untold ingot]

That makes it even worse lol

[blissful perch]

You’re imagining that I want to link all the beds together for a tribe. I do not. I don’t have any interest in linking how many times a specific player died either. What matters is #respawns from a given bed

[untold ingot]

You said the respawn timer would change based on the number of beds

[blissful perch]

Number of CHARGES

So a bed at X charges has Y time, and at X-1 it has Y+Z time to respawn

[untold ingot]

So putting out 2000 beds named 1-2000 would mean you get 2000 spawns at the first timer?

[blissful perch]

If you could stack 2000 beds in one spot, yep. Although with any form of building restrictions you could easily block that scenario

[untold ingot]

Because that is what would happen

[blissful perch]

Blocking bed density beyond X amount per area is the easiest

[untold ingot]

Imo that caters too heavily to smaller tribes

[blissful perch]

Why?

You don’t need 2000 beds at any tribe size in a tiny area

Larger tribes should be forced to use more space anyway. I see this as a win

[untold ingot]

You get 6 people who are insanely good at the game, they get x number of beds. They fight 40 moderately good players with x number of beds. In almost every scenario assuming ark2 pvp is even remotely similar to any pvp game, and the 6 will almost always win

[blissful perch]

Ok, but if 40 players can hold the same space as 6, the 40 should be at a disadvantage

[untold ingot]

I don't. It forces base size to increase significantly, being nothing but a giant platform of beds

[untold ingot]

Why?

[blissful perch]

Bases are already massive because of breeding. Don’t meme that beds will be the culprit if breeding stays

[tropic crag]

Good, screw the megas /j ||but not really||

[blissful perch]

…because it means the 40 sucks? Not sure how else to phrase it

[untold ingot]

That's not how it works lol

[blissful perch]

If 6 people can occupy and defend the same space as 40, it means 40 = 6

[tropic crag]

I understood the scenario

[untold ingot]

6 people can hold ice cave. 40 people can also hold it. Even 1 person can hold it.

[blissful perch]

Right, but the 40 should have a way easier time holding it than 6

[tropic crag]

You're still thinking in weird Ark 1 terms

[untold ingot]

No. Having bed charges with a cooldown based on beds would mean every fob a has to be a mega base. It would make raiding significantly worse, with minimal positive gains

[untold ingot]

Again, for a game called Ark2 it seems logical to think that some things will be at least remotely similar

[blissful perch]

Sounds like a good thing, since the alternative is the aggressor can spam beds outside the confines of the base and get way more respawns

[untold ingot]

That is why the respawns get longer after every death...

[blissful perch]

It’s bad design to make players wait while dead. It’s the simple truth

[untold ingot]

You are basically just convincing me even more that ark1 made the right choice lol

[blissful perch]

Especially to punish them more for dying back to back

So having a system that soft caps #respawns is an extremely viable solution. Since I agree infinite respawns is a bad idea

[untold ingot]

That is subjective. I would argue that it is fairly good design

[tropic crag]

It also seems logical to think that a platypus gives live birth, but here we are

[untold ingot]

That's not even remotely similar lol

[blissful perch]

Your argument holds no water given I’ve not seen you present one for why it needs to be scaling and per player

[untold ingot]

No, you just ignore the points I make lol

[blissful perch]

The argument to soft cap #respawns per time is solid, and I conceded the point

Please direct me to why the soft cap MUST take the form of a scaling timer for each player. From a balance perspective, since I find the code/calculations argument to be shoddy (since I can’t see why on earth it would take more calculations than what I proposed)

[untold ingot]

It doesn't have to. So far it is just the simplest way to do it

[untold ingot]

Do you code?

[tropic crag]

Simple ≠ good (at least in some cases)

[blissful perch]

I coded enough to know there’s no way my bed proposal is gonna cause massive server lag if it results in cutting other calculations elsewhere

[untold ingot]

From a coding perspective simple always means good lol

[blissful perch]

Simple = fast, but a dumb calculation run quickly is still dumb

[untold ingot]

It is very easy to write code that seems safe, only to have the simplest calculations take exponentially longer with each iteration

The all around best way to do that is with compounding multiple unnecessary variables in a single computation

[blissful perch]

Correct

Which is why I suggested taking variables for EVERY dead player and making it one variable for each bed; number of charges

At worst it’s a 1-1 conversion of variables

[untold ingot]

So keeping timer on the player you have 70 variables. Keeping timer on beds and you have 200ish^x *70 variables

It's not one to one

Granted there are ways to reduce that number, (maybe even by a lot) but you can see why I would be leery of doing things that way

[blissful perch]

You’re saying each second is a variable? I swear when I coded time was a single variable

[untold ingot]

No, 200 beds, with x charges, by 70 players

[blissful perch]

Where the hell is the 70 players coming from

[untold ingot]

It shouldn't be an ^ it should be a *

[blissful perch]

The bed charges ignores player count

[tropic crag]

You're still calculating the players 😂

[blissful perch]

It doesn’t matter who died

[untold ingot]

You have to. Because you have to send that information to the players computers....

[blissful perch]

It just matters that the bed was used to respawn

[blissful perch]

Ok but that has to be done to communicate to the server you clicked a bed to respawn in. That’s moot

[untold ingot]

Like I said, there would be ways to reduce the number, but you'll never get to as few calculations as just calculating based on player number of times died

[blissful perch]

Ok but your entire argument as I see it…is that my solution is invalid because it would ruin server performance

[untold ingot]

So 2*70 with a boolean for each bed. That is significantly less workload than what you are suggesting

[untold ingot]

No, it is inefficient coding, and wouldn't have the positive benefits because people would just spam beds more

[tropic crag]

Hence the limit per area

[blissful perch]

🙄 an easily addressed solution with bed limits per area was also posed

[untold ingot]

Which drastically increases base size (for little to no benefit)

[blissful perch]

Which I told you is bs

[tropic crag]

As it should be, for gargantuan tribes

[blissful perch]

Since bases are huge already and don’t have beds everywhere

[untold ingot]

It would force everyone to have a gargantuan base, which obviously caters even more heavily to nolifers

[tropic crag]

It would be a middling hinderance for a mega to have to decide... who gets to respawn at the 40 beds, lmao

[blissful perch]

It would force large groups to have large bases, yes. Is that not what you want to encourage?

[untold ingot]

Yes, because there is a respawn system that doesn't rely on the number of beds down

[tropic crag]

I'd even like them to have to do so

[untold ingot]

It would force it on smaller tribes too

Fobs would increase in size making every raid more costly as well.

Honestly, it's a good thought, but I only see negative effects coming out of it

[tropic crag]

The cooldowns for one person are nowhere near the cooldowns for 40, wat

The same amount of beds would provide little to no benefit for a smaller tribe, lol

[untold ingot]

Not true. It would make smaller tribes of more skilled players equal in manpower to a 40 man tribe

[tropic crag]

Net gain imo

[untold ingot]

Net gain by making raids possible only to people who spend all day ingame?

That is not a net gain

[tropic crag]

Which, as we stated before, is already a skill issue and not a respawn issue

[untold ingot]

It is absolutely a respawn issue lol

[meager timber]

When’s arks 2 drop date?

[untold ingot]

Sometime in 2023

[meager timber]

Smh

[untold ingot]

It is in the pins

[meager timber]

Ty

[tropic crag]

How so? You even said yourself that a one man can hold ice cave against 40, how is this any different from the skill comparison there? If he keeps dying, and the respawn is as-is, how is that at all a respawn issue? I fail to understand your logic, because, by your own logic, that should not be the case

[untold ingot]

I am not going to explain how to defend an ice cave here

There are plenty of videos on that

[blissful perch]

The point isn’t how it’s done: it’s that it IS done

Clearly the current respawn rate is not altering the 40 v 1 scenario ending in the 1’s favor: so with the new system what’s the difference?

If the outcomes are identical?

[tropic crag]

Exactly; by Raq's logic, that (holding ice cave as a one man) shouldn't be possible in the current way that it is, but yet, it is

Which makes it very much a skill issue, because that one man must be really damn good in this scenario

[blissful perch]

Or the 40 suck

[tropic crag]

Or that, true

[blissful perch]

Or the ice cave is a bad example because it’s so easy to defend. But otherwise the example of “one beating many” is already present in ark 1, so why would a respawn mechanic that requires larger groups to use more beds to have the same respawns per unit time create dramatically different outcomes?

[tropic crag]

The respawns either side have make no difference in the current form is all I'm saying, so I don't see how it would suddenly change with beds having the charges instead of players getting longer timers (and getting annoyed at having to sit for minutes at a time, when most other PvP video games in the world have less than ten seconds per respawn)

[blissful perch]

The goal imo is to reduce things that are unfun

[tropic crag]

Oh for sure

[blissful perch]

I’d argue sitting around waiting to respawn is top 5 least fun things to do in a game. Balance comes after fixing that frustration in play experience

[tropic crag]

And sitting around waiting when you could be playing instead is a prime example of unfun, at least for me You said it better lol

[untold ingot]

I am fairly convinced that you don't know my logic lol

[tropic crag]

Then please, explain

I can only relay what I perceive and understand, I'm not omnipotent lol

[blissful perch]

*Omniscient

[tropic crag]

Oop

You right

Get those mixed up far too often

[blissful perch]

I’m just a bit confused at how 40 people needing a larger space to defend suddenly makes 6 people OP

Unless it’s a perfect 1:1 correlation between tribe size and bed count needed, the 40 should still retain the advantage all else being equal

[untold ingot]

Most of those aren't pvp looter shooters though

If you are looking for a pvp with fast respawns for constant action, then ark never was the genre to pick

[tropic crag]

Ok, but you get my point though, right? People will quit the game over lesser issues than a ridiculously long respawn timer, let alone when compared to other PvP games that have these faster respawns (which they will do, everyone always tries to draw comparisons when evaluating whether or not they like a game)

[untold ingot]

Yes, but that is balanced out by having a small amount of time for people raiding to actually make some progress.

[untold ingot]

No, I don't get that point

Battle Royale was and is vasty popular, even when it has no respawns

[tropic crag]

Then why does fibercraft exist? Isn't that constant action?

[untold ingot]

Fibercraft is not official, so it doesn't even affect this conversation

[tropic crag]

That's entirely different, and is an example of something not to compare Ark to, since there's a revive mechanic that overwrites respawning (also, some of them do have respawning, just sayin. Even a really popular one...)

[untold ingot]

I kind of strictly keep my arguments related to ark2 official

[untold ingot]

Again that is my point. Comparing a different genre of pvp games to ark typically doesn't work lol

[tropic crag]

Fair, but that is something that can be done with the game and should not be completely discounted purely on the basis of it not being an official game mode

[untold ingot]

I am not discounting it at all...

[tropic crag]

There's still the ability to do so and therefore makes it fit for those looking for that type of gameplay

[untold ingot]

It doesn't even factor into anything I have said

[tropic crag]

[blissful perch]

Hold

[tropic crag]

.

[blissful perch]

Battle royales don’t have respawns but they DO put people into games quickly

[south lance]

what happen

[blissful perch]

When you die -> you spectate someone else or about 99% of folks will find a new lobby and get right back into the action

There is ZERO time spent looking at the respawn screen like in ark

[untold ingot]

It takes longer than 1 minute for thst usually though

[untold ingot]

So you are arguing to add a spectate screen?

[south lance]

people just watch each other in discord streams while waiting on cooldown id imagine

[untold ingot]

Because there absolutely has to be time in between respawns, especially in a game like ark

[blissful perch]

No. I’m arguing ark 1 is a great example of a terribly frustrating gameplay element: which is sitting at the respawn screen waiting around

[tropic crag]

What if

Hear me out

[blissful perch]

There’s a myriad of solutions to this issue

[untold ingot]

I get that. But it's even more frustrating to be unable to raid a base because someone has infinite no time respawns

[south lance]

imagine how easy itd be to crash a server with bodies

[untold ingot]

That is why people do offline raids in the first place lol

[lavish rain]

🍄

[tropic crag]

They make it so we can be dinos in the meantime while waiting to spawn, like they're already doing in some form with SotF?

[blissful perch]

A short cooldown at minimum is required for a game like ark, of that there’s no question

[blissful perch]

This would be an excellent solution

[south lance]

why do that with offi tho

[untold ingot]

If things like gigas are around it woukd not be a good solution imo

[blissful perch]

There’s a major problem pertaining to design: which is sitting at the respawn screen

[untold ingot]

Even theris lol

[blissful perch]

We are inventing solutions to it

[south lance]

it could be fun i suppose

[untold ingot]

Honestly, in a game where raids take hours, waiting a minute really isn't that bad lol

[south lance]

imo^

[blissful perch]

You in theory could whistle gigas to aggro anyway: the human control aspect just makes it viable instead of “oops you kited my giga and now it died”

[south lance]

i think the game is already shifted towards super long term commitments for saving respawn time to matter much

[blissful perch]

It really is that bad, especially if you want to DO something and the game says “nah, just sit here and stare at your naked survivor”

[south lance]

go get a snack while respawning

[tropic crag]

You're still thinking in Ark 1 terms, I hope that raiding does not take hours or I will quit PvP immediately

[paper phoenix]

take a piss break cus you been in your chair for over 6 hours

[south lance]

thats like a staple of how ark works tho

[untold ingot]

Forgive me if I am wrong, but you already quit pvp

[south lance]

you dont give people the ability to dump 5000 hours into a base and have it go down in 10 minutes

[tropic crag]

Yeah, it just circumvents the issue of you being dead = your dinos are now potatoes and will follow a wyvern off a cliff

[paper phoenix]

you're a bob, that's the fun of raiding. Time & Effort to win or lose.

[south lance]

that just wastes so much time allowing people to do something theyd eventually never do

[tropic crag]

We are talking about Ark 2, are we not? I haven't quit on a game that isn't out yet... lmao

[south lance]

isnt respawn timer like only a big thing for pvp?

[blissful perch]

People who enjoy ark 1 PvP will not want to see the basic design altered for ark 2. Those who dislike ark 1 PvP will want major changes. Not hard to see why that would be

[untold ingot]

The issue with respawns is that it is already hard enough to raid online. Instant respawns makes that problem significantly worse

[blissful perch]

Yes, this whole conversation is basically about PvP

[south lance]

ok that clears and confuses it for me

if you died you should not be able to jump back onto your mount 2 seconds later

i dont like ark1 pvp but its mainly because of how gatekept it is from casuals

[blissful perch]

A cooldown of 20 seconds before you can do anything is essential

[south lance]

you need some significant cooldown

[blissful perch]

But if you’re gonna block player spawns for as long as 10 minutes, you need to give them something to do. Even something as primitive as spectating a tribe mate

[south lance]

enough so if someone kills you they can proceed to kill your tame or snatch your kit or whatever

[untold ingot]

Why?

[blissful perch]

Because it’s frustrating and unfun? To not play the game and stare at a respawn screen?

[south lance]

10 minutes is probably excessive

[untold ingot]

Yes, but the gatekeeper is not respawning lol

[tropic crag]

Our whole point here

[south lance]

yeah i dont mean that

[blissful perch]

The gatekeeper spawns faster than the person who died 4 times to kill the gatekeeper once and now has to wait longer

[south lance]

like respawn also affects defenders

[untold ingot]

I could argue that taming or breeding or imprinting or farming berries or metal is less fun.

[blissful perch]

Tedium isn’t fun either (to many but not all folks) but it beats not playing the game at all and just sitting at the respawn screen

[south lance]

i thought pvp respawn timer was like 3 minutes atm

[tropic crag]

Hardly, at least you're actually doing something

[south lance]

that seems fine as is

[untold ingot]

Believe me, it is significantly less fun to raid (in a game where raiding is the staple of fun,) when the defender gets to come back immediately every time they die

[south lance]

i mean the defender is gonna lose 2000 hours of work

[blissful perch]

According to person, the staple of fun is foot PvP and stealing kits

[south lance]

you might lose a couple hundred in war gear

both spread across multiple players ofc

[untold ingot]

I brought up the case of ice cave, because it is near impossible to do an online raid already. With near infinite respawns it would be quite literally impossible

[tropic crag]

That's far too long, in comparison to literally almost any other PvP game, including Rust (since we need really close comparisons, here)

[blissful perch]

Ok but nobody suggested infinite respawns

You’re imagining that scenario again because you magically dismissed the last hour of discussion

[untold ingot]

The respawn system you mentioned would give near infinite respawns

I already brought up that point

[blissful perch]

You literally provided arguments that said limited respawns would force large bases and limit large tribes

How on EARTH is that the same as infinite respawns?

[south lance]

ice cave is kind of a special issue tho

[untold ingot]

Not really

[south lance]

i dont think most base spots are as hard to raid as ice

[tropic crag]

Yes really

[untold ingot]

Some are actually harder lol

[south lance]

some are

[blissful perch]

Independent of ice cave Raq you’ve contradicted yourself

[tropic crag]

And those are also special cases

[blissful perch]

You’re simultaneously arguing that the proposed solution is too limiting on respawns and allows too many respawns

[south lance]

but again, its those some that themselves are probably the issue balance wise

[untold ingot]

Lol, what?

[south lance]

crouch caves shouldn't exist tbh

at least not massive ones

[untold ingot]

I don't disagree, I want to move away from the cave meta

[tropic crag]

Don't we all

[blissful perch]

Here you argue there’s a limit to respawns

[blissful perch]

Here you say nearly infinite

[lavish rain]

What's the topic

[untold ingot]

But barring drastic changes to how the game is played, the defender will always be at the advantage

[south lance]

respawn timers

[untold ingot]

That is not what I said lol

[tropic crag]

It is, effectively

[lavish rain]

Shouldn't exist

[untold ingot]

I said fobs would be bigger...

[south lance]

why?

[tropic crag]

Limited beds = limited spawns

Simple

[untold ingot]

Hence people make bigger fobs to not have limited beds

[south lance]

they already dont exist for pve anyhow, its mainly pvp that gets affected

[blissful perch]

Which implies current FOBs would be limited

[lavish rain]

It's stupid

[blissful perch]

IE: a limit

And ofc no matter how big the fob, the size (and thus beds) will always be limited

[tropic crag]

So it's either build bigger fob, or keep it small

[south lance]

just stack beds on each other?

[untold ingot]

Technically yes. that it is not necessarily an effective limit though

[blissful perch]

You need context: come back when you have it 🙂

[tropic crag]

This is taking into account that that is silly and hopefully is removed

[south lance]

the context is like 300 messages back

[blissful perch]

Search function or some light scrolling

[tropic crag]

There ya go

There's the context

[blissful perch]

Lmao or that

[south lance]

-_-

[tropic crag]

Oh yeah, bed limit too lol in a radius

[blissful perch]

Which is that this solution includes a hard cap on bed density

[south lance]

oh ok

[untold ingot]

If you put out 500 beds and only die 30 times, it doesn't make a difference if there were 500 beds or infinite beds

[tropic crag]

Which was my point earlier with your analogy, that you said you didn't understand

[untold ingot]

Which point

[tropic crag]

The one man ice cave thing

[untold ingot]

And?

[tropic crag]

With beds limited, that wouldn't change for the one man, but would for the 40

[untold ingot]

Your argument seemed to be a scramble to find a contradiction in my argument lol

[untold ingot]

You wouldn't be able to limit the beds either for the 40 or for the 1, without severely limiting the size of buildings. And you can't do that since there won't be cryos

[tropic crag]

Wat

[untold ingot]

Even if you did a 100 beds in range type of thing like with turrets it would have no impact

[tropic crag]

You lost me

[untold ingot]

I am aware of that lol

I just don't know of any other way to say it

[blissful perch]

How about 20

[untold ingot]

How does that change things?

You just move a slight distance away, and place 20 more

[blissful perch]

Although I’m cautious to use actual values because you’re creating strawmen. The values can be changed to whatever provides the needed constraint

[tropic crag]

Fob will have to be bigger? Lol

[untold ingot]

Hence more expensive, therefore less accessible to casual players, which was my original point when I brought that up lol

[tropic crag]

If you're in a tribe that needs that many beds, needless to say, you aren't a casual player lmao

[untold ingot]

You are talking about removing gatekeeping, and I see this proposed change as being nothing but more gatekeeping

[untold ingot]

And if you don't have that many beds, you can't even compete

Again, that is what I was saying lol

[blissful perch]

That’s a major argument pivot

[tropic crag]

Yeaaaaaah, lol

[untold ingot]

No it's not.

[blissful perch]

Before you said it’s limitless respawns; now it’s gatekeeping?

It’s clearly not limitless if people are functionally limited by available space and resources

[tropic crag]

The logic hardens

Thickens, even

[untold ingot]

It is effectively limitless with more hours put into farming

[split dove]

god this is entertaining 🍿

[blissful perch]

That goes for everything in ark. So that point is instantly moot

[untold ingot]

Lol, no

[tropic crag]

Lol, yes

[untold ingot]

Because right now, it doesn't matter how much you farm if you have 0 skill and die often. With that system it would

[blissful perch]

Right but you’re specifically stating that the proposal is GATEKEEPING

[untold ingot]

Yes, but that is a separate point

They are not contradictory at all

[blissful perch]

This right here says lacking skill can be compensated for with getting a larger fob with more beds

IE: it counters skill based gate keeping

[untold ingot]

In favor of nolife farming

[blissful perch]

If ark 2 somehow doesn’t promote no life farming on official I’ll concede that point to you

But I suspect it won’t

[untold ingot]

Let me rephrase. Excessive no life farming making a ridiculous number of beds

[blissful perch]

And requiring more players and PvP skill to hold a larger fob

It’s not just a mats game

[tropic crag]

At that point, you're just insinuating that the no-lifers are going to be ahead of everyone else; which we already know will be the case, because, like cheaters and Thanos, they're inevitable. So it's a very moot point as Shifter said

[blissful perch]

The solution does not alter what already happens: which is that more gathering and hours sunk = more prep and more advantage

[untold ingot]

I am utterly lost lol. You want the game to be more accessible to more players, and concede that your change caters almost exclusively to no life play styles

[blissful perch]

I severely doubt that such a solution would be as big an advantage as the already massive advantage gained from hours spent breeding and farming kits for yourself

[untold ingot]

You also argued for keeping kits on death...

[tropic crag]

I, for one, am hoping that this is a best case scenario and that no-lifing has been dealt with in some capacity... wishful thinking, I know

[blissful perch]

Independently from this discussion

[blissful perch]

The proposed solution has no impact on gatekeeping is my argument: your argument seems to want to be that by making it more consistent to respawn you nerf new players

Which I see as nonsense. The bed system simply caps the number of spawns per time, which we agreed at the top of the discussion was required for PvP to work

[untold ingot]

Yet, with the proposed change, increasing the number of beds decreases the spawn timer

As a pvp player that is a net loss

[blissful perch]

Indeed. It would mean that larger bases require more effort to drain the spawn charges from their beds

[untold ingot]

If you want a constant respawn timer sure. But don't have it based on the number of beds placed

[blissful perch]

Which means that large groups need large bases to keep up with their respawns if they die as often as a small group

A major net win for PvP, since it’s very hard to scale things negatively with tribe size

[tropic crag]

Which, as I've said ad nauseam, is a skill thing, not a respawn thing

Just to clarify

[untold ingot]

Again, as a pvp player who would like to see the game be more casual, I do not see the number of beds placed affecting respawn time as a net win

[sonic elbow]

A really good way to pull this off is to have the cinematic kill slow down the rest of the environment, as to not be disturbed mid-kill. That won't work in ARK 2, though.

[blissful perch]

This system has no impact on casual vs hardcore play

[blissful perch]

Yea the cinematics would probably need to animation lock but not movement lock to work in ark 2

[sonic elbow]

Wym?

[blissful perch]

Meaning when you do the cinematic kill you can still move the rex forward and back as it swallows the player you ate

[untold ingot]

That is not even remotely true lol

[tropic crag]

It's more of a fun vs unfun thing 😂

[sonic elbow]

Ohhh, okay okay, that makes sense.

Movement would obviously have to be slowed, but that could actually work.

[blissful perch]

If anything it forces large tribes, often composed of less casual players, to build larger and harder to defend bases. So I admit it’s untrue; it benefits new players more

[untold ingot]

Which they do already...

[blissful perch]

Since new casual players play solo or in small groups (and this is an incontestable point: we literally call them bobs)

[untold ingot]

Solos and small groups are not the same thing as bobs though

[lean night]

when comes ark 2 out?

[sonic elbow]

2020

[south lance]

next year

[sonic elbow]

[lean night]

no specific date?

[south lance]

nop

[sonic elbow]

Nope.

[lean night]

yikes

[blissful perch]

So you’d argue more casual players play in megas than in small groups and solo? I’d need some convincing proof of that one since I seriously doubt it

[sonic elbow]

Well, Q1 iirc

Q2 latest, not taking into account another delay

[south lance]

its not clear cut, a bunch of casuals on 1x play in megatribe betas

[untold ingot]

I am saying that the number of players in a tribe has no impact on whether a player is a Bob or not

[tropic crag]

Semantics, classic move

[blissful perch]

Ok, so what does that have to do with gatekeeping casual players? Do bobs not count?

[south lance]

id argue more casuals that actually stick around on 1x are in megatribe betas

[untold ingot]

I would and have made that same point lol

[south lance]

since betas are like rec grounds for megatribes to get ppl who wont inside

[untold ingot]

Being in a mega tribe actually means you can be more casual

[blissful perch]

Ok, so solo and small tribe casuals are being pushed out. Makes me think that large tribes need a bit of a nerf then to promote those folks who were edged out

[south lance]

specifically betas in my point tho, usually the best players are part of main megas

[untold ingot]

Yeah

[south lance]

they do

[blissful perch]

This is getting into tangent territory: since the argument I’m not seeing is a compelling reason that bed based respawning is somehow more gatekeepy than literally punishing you for dying more often with waiting longer

[untold ingot]

Often you will find some of the best players as solos as well

[south lance]

currently the only viable way to play ark solo is quetz platform

ironically exploiting the somewhat broken saddle mechanic

[sonic elbow]

Singleplayer ftw...

[south lance]

solo on pvp

[south lance]

fair

[sonic elbow]

Legacy Maps at least, Genesis 1/2 SP 100% is impossible.

[south lance]

usually theyre all over the place

[untold ingot]

I have already argued that point.

[sonic elbow]

Mfw I can't take on Alpha CMC because some of the Missions are impossible solo.

[tropic crag]

I must have missed it...

[sonic elbow]

I hope ARK 2 Missions don't suffer from the same problems the Genesis Missions have.

[blissful perch]

Your argument that I saw was “at least you have more time to raid someone who was skilled you managed to kill”. Which is extremely moot if a bad player took four deaths to achieve that one kill and must now wait longer than the skilled player they killed to respawn

[untold ingot]

Lol, no

[tropic crag]

Which is how the current respawning works, just to clarify

[tropic crag]

Lol, yes

[untold ingot]

If you want me to write an essay of everything I have said and compile it into a concise argument on why it is a bad idea. I could do that. I don't want to because I would just be repeating things I have already said

[blissful perch]

You’ve already repeated your arguments: and I’m saying it feels flimsy at best due to the lack of compelling reason why the old system is in any way superior to the solution

Your gate keeping argument fell flat, your argument about 1 vs many fell flat, I’m not really sure what other arguments you have left

[untold ingot]

I don't see how any of my arguments fell flat lol

On the contrary I would say that every argument presented against them was an attempt to (incorrectly) show that I somehow made a contradiction

[sonic elbow]

Mfw I want to talk about ARK 2 (There is currently an argument in session)

[blissful perch]

You did lol I’m crying 😂. You said “the solution would make 6 beat 40” then turned around and used ice cave as an example where this already happens with the current respawn system

[blissful perch]

We are talking about ark 2. We’re talking about booting the cringe “wait at the spawn screen” mechanic in PvP

[south lance]

ark1 mechanics and dynamics are taken as an approximation for what we can expect or imagine in ark2

[untold ingot]

If you review the words I used I did not say 6 beats 40. I said 6 skilled players beat 40 moderate players

[blissful perch]

To which you provided that in ark 1 that ALREADY happens with the current system

[sonic elbow]

You know what's worse? Being hit with that in Singleplayer after being killed in quick succession.

[untold ingot]

Currently even on an ice cave that rarely happens

[blissful perch]

You just said a solo can defend an ice cave. Now they can’t?

[sonic elbow]

I'm literally in Singleplayer, WHAT are you trying to balance?

[untold ingot]

It is extremely rare to 6v40, even with an ice cave

[untold ingot]

Can doesn't mean it is consistent

[blissful perch]

@tropic crag am I blind? Is this not what was said?

[south lance]

it was implied but not technically said

more on the point of likelihood tho

[blissful perch]

So I ask again: what about the solution is so mind breakingly in favor of small groups if ark 1 already allows them to hold defensive locations against larger groups?

[untold ingot]

I have defended an ice cave against 40 people before. But that is because they were really bad, and I was a higher skill player. That scenario is extremely rare in practice

To give a percentage I would say a solo has a 5% chance to defend against 40 equalky skilled or even organized players. With an infinite respawn using hundreds of beds that percentage would climb to closer to 30 or 40

[tropic crag]

I've given up, most of the points are moot and I think we can all agree that sitting for 30+ seconds doing fuck-all is possibly the most unfun, boring thing that they could implement into a video game in history

[untold ingot]

I never disagreed with that

I only disagreed that respawn timer should not depend on how many beds you have placed

[tropic crag]

Hence why I said we can all agree...

[south lance]

itd be simpler to have it tied to how many people are online imo 🤷‍♂️

[tropic crag]

It really wouldn't

[untold ingot]

That might work better

[blissful perch]

So what, a hard cap on spawn rates based on number of tribe members online?

[south lance]

i think yea

youd have a min and max ofc

[tropic crag]

Wait a tic, I thought you were against putting complication into the code?

[untold ingot]

It would be less computationally intensive and would cater more to smaller tribes. But it would be easily exploitable

[south lance]

but theyd scale maybe in steps based on ranges of people online

[untold ingot]

That isn't putting much more complication in the code

[tropic crag]

Neither is the charges, though

[untold ingot]

Do you want me to write the algorithm?

Would that convince you?

[south lance]

1-3? maybe 30 second respawn, idk exactly but reserve a short respawn here, 20-30? 5 minutes, go watch your friends on the discord stream bob

neither number is something i actuallt am beholden to

just an outline for what could work

[untold ingot]

The issue I see with that is that a large tribe picks its top 3 players and funds them to raid, and then everyone else logs off

[south lance]

that already happens no?

[plain token]

who is going to quit ark for ark 2 🤝

[south lance]

but yes they are affected by the same respawn

[blissful perch]

Me. Instantly

[tropic crag]

Eh, it'll depend greatly on some things

[untold ingot]

Not really, at least not on the same scals

[south lance]

though usually the best players arent significantly affected by respawn in any case unless i underestimate suicide raiding

pt/deino rockets and whatever

point being, they dont really die much anyhow

[split dove]

only thing i do before i start is do the gen 2 rockwell fight to have a better story transition imo

[untold ingot]

But that brings back a point that I haven't said enough. Any change made to game play should not uniquely cater to a specific class of players. In this case smaller tribes

Players should not be penalized for wanting to okay in a large grouo

[tropic crag]

Hard disagree

[thick moat]

if most of what they promised is true, ill go into ark 2 in a heartbeat

[south lance]

there should be soft nerfs to playing in large tribes

atm the only real soft nerf is that youre raided daily

[untold ingot]

That's your prerogative, but I will consistently disagree lol

[tropic crag]

At the very least

[untold ingot]

It should be harder to raid and harder to move around the map, but the game play itself should be essentially equivalent

[south lance]

playing in groups exponentially increases your output since you can specialize and dedicate harder tasks to better players

[untold ingot]

Yes, and the issue with that is?

[blissful perch]

With a player cap on a server that’s a major issue

[south lance]

the issue is its not just linearly proportional if thats the right word

[untold ingot]

I'll agree with that

[blissful perch]

Because one massive tribe can server slot cap and see no competitor of another equally large tribe

[south lance]

the 3000 metal you farm in a tribe js worth more than the 3000 metal you farm by yourself

[tropic crag]

I think the word you're looking for is: fair

[blissful perch]

So there is need for them to be competing with other tribes of smaller sizes, at least to some degree

[south lance]

because it will be put to use in more powerful things

like a 100 turret wall

instead of some dingy vault

but thats not all, since you also gain more metal in a large tribe

and you also get all this faster

[untold ingot]

I could say that if you need a crutch to play ark pvp, then maybe pick another game, or go to unofficial. But I feel like you probably won't like that lol

[south lance]

theres too many benefits basically imo

[untold ingot]

Yeah

[tropic crag]

You are 100% correct, didn't care for it 😂

[south lance]

i dont wanna crutch, i want megas to force players to need to learn to play

[blissful perch]

A crutch is not the same as balancing the game design to not severely favor large alpha tribes

[untold ingot]

Again I don't disagree with that

[south lance]

i literally had 200 hours on pvp and i got into a mega because i could slot cap some dedis with a stryder for 20 hours a week during the summer

had 0 clue how pvp works

[untold ingot]

I would argue that that is a net positive

[south lance]

2 summers ago

[blissful perch]

This is, imo, net stupid to see

[south lance]

the issue is that megas also have the best players

so my metal isnt just way more than any smaller tribe would ever see, but itll be used most effectively

[untold ingot]

Not everyone who plays games can be skilled at the whole thing at the level you would have to be. Megas have a place for lesser skilled players who want to feel part of a community

[blissful perch]

If it’s called “menial laborer jobs in a video game” it’s bad design

[south lance]

thats the good part about megas yeah, though i literally never saw a raid

[blissful perch]

Horrible COD PvP players can still play COD

[south lance]

100 hours in their beta and never could raid because of mismanagement and restrictions

[untold ingot]

I would argue that the issue isn't that megas have too many advantages. I would argue that transportation and scouting are too overpowered

[south lance]

probably

but imagine nerfing travel tames now

[untold ingot]

The is the argument I have mad me the entire time lol

[south lance]

remember people crying over flyer nerf

[blissful perch]

This guy is literally saying “I can’t PvP in a mega because their admin structure won’t let me”. That’s a massive problem lol

[untold ingot]

Actually it is a very necessary thing

[south lance]

in fairness i quit like 2 days into getting into the main tribe because school

its mainly the beta i had issues with

[tropic crag]

Wait, that's... gatekeeping!

[south lance]

never playing with germans again 😔

[tropic crag]

Sound the alarm

[untold ingot]

Preventing insiding and gatekeeping is not the same thing

[south lance]

you do need the beta tribe to recruit from

but betas are largely made of casuals or idiots otherwise

[blissful perch]

That’s actual BS lol. You’re telling me a beta tribe member shouldn’t be able to raid?

[south lance]

the beta can raid lol

my personal experience is that one

i could probably join a different beta and participate in some raids

[untold ingot]

Have you actually ever played in a beta or a mega?

[tropic crag]

Here it comes

[blissful perch]

I apologize: I forgot ark PvP is a roleplaying experience. My mistake

[untold ingot]

You can raid. You just can't have complete access to all tames, blueprints and generators

Because that would be completely stupid

[south lance]

but i think more important is that betas are basically just amalgamations of people who are handheld through the game by megas in order to find like 2 people to replace quitting members

[dry silo]

K

[south lance]

you arent forced to learn, they just pick the people who play the most

the learning process itself takes place after youve invested fuckall amounts of time

but even thats limited since even megas have specialization of labor

[untold ingot]

It's a bit of a different game

[mint swan]

whats the conversation about rn

[untold ingot]

Lots of stuff lol

[south lance]

idek i think i steered it off course but the original convo was about respawn timers

[tropic crag]

Mostly gatekeeping

[south lance]

ill roll with that

[mint swan]

.... ok so lots of stuff gatekeeping and respawns

[tropic crag]

😏

[mint swan]

so how are we going to gate keep new players from playing ark 2

[tropic crag]

Love the enthusiasm

[south lance]

how important will 1x dynamics even be in ark2 i wonder

cause theres also smalltribes, unofficial which is modified smalltribes generally, etc

arkpoc even

the past convo is largely only useful for 1x

[mint swan]

true i think that the 1x dynamics will depend on how much things like hatchets picks ankys ect can gather

[south lance]

i dont think farming rates are the most significant aspect

[mint swan]

fair, what do you think the leveling up rates will be like

[south lance]

well kinda

rates are important

its probably the biggest offput to casuals from 1x

since they cant even set up a thatch base in a "reasonable " amount of time

[untold ingot]

I think and hope thst leveling will have more to do with exploration rather than mass murder of recently hatched spinos

[mint swan]

yea or maybe certain creatures at adult give more exp like a adult rex gives a high amount where if you kill a baby you get like idk a tenth

[south lance]

id just like gameplay necessary engrams werent only available after killing bosses

took me like 5 weeks just to get the damn shotgun

(only playing weekends)

90% of people who play this game on multi just afk to one side as their friend does the boss for them

[mint swan]

thats also a fair thing, i think bosses need to be changed a bit

[south lance]

im like 50/50 on whether bosses or rng is the issue

[mint swan]

maybe the more people that are in the boss arena the harder the boss is so it incentivises everyone to actually fight it

[south lance]

thats already the case

its just that people figured out the easiest way to finish bosses

[mint swan]

true

[south lance]

which is just getting some cheap tank and some capped velos

[mint swan]

well hopefully with the better AI the fights will be hardere

[south lance]

they probably will be

[mint swan]

hmmm what is the likelyhood that we see details at the game awards

[south lance]

low

nobody actually knows, but low expectations are how you stay winning

[mint swan]

true that, i mean i have a little hope due to the fact that they haven't really announced anything about pushing it back and the steam page still says that it will come out on 2023 soo i have some hope

but not a lot

[split dove]

there's always the 50/50 chance of it being there and not being there without any confirmation by devs. but nothing shared about it puts it on the lower end

[thick moat]

at least we know xbox will be there

so that gives some hope

[mint swan]

yea

[split dove]

i guess we will know for certain after tomorrow

[winged dome]

Is that how probability works? Two outcomes so they're always 50/50%? 😂

[minor prism]

What is happening tomorrow🤔 my bad come in on you saying that and I’m interested lmao

[winged dome]

Game Awards, where there's a chance of new Ark2 info

[minor prism]

My guy 👊

[past wind]

Right? 🤣

“Yes or no =50/50 chance” 🤣

[split dove]

quick maths

[thick moat]

A lot of studios are starting to announce they are on TGA maybe we are a few hours away from wc tweeting something😭

[tribal geyser]

How long till we see first gameplay?

[tropic crag]

I view it more like Schrodinger's Cat; until The Game Awards happen, there is, simultaneously, a reality where they do show something there, and a reality where they don't 😂

(Also, everyone may or may not be dead from radiation, or something)

[thick moat]

No one knows bossman

[tribal geyser]

Okey lad ;)

[light coyote]

All we know is next time they share anything ark 2 related it'll be gameplay

[tribal geyser]

Okey ty! can't wait

[worldly garden]

My guess is next year now.

[split dove]

don't bring quantum mechanics into this, i'd rather get radiation poisoning than figure that out

[potent hull]

how many flobes dos it tack to make ark 2

just one

lol

[south lance]

itll take 2 at this rate

[thick moat]

what do you mean🗿

[lavish rain]

Nah, 3

[potent hull]

is a joke it take 1 to make ark 2

[long marlin]

I am so keen, I hope it has a bigger focus on survival and exploration though. Gen and Gen 2 just seemed grindy.

[split dove]

they already stated survival elements won't be drasticly different from ark 1 player survival and will basicly still be food/water and hot/cold. exploration is seemingly getting a bigger focus with the new player movement systems.

[rugged coral]

I think it’s fair to say the biggest impact on survival in ark is the environment you’re in and not necessarily the survival mechanics themselves

[blissful perch]

As it should be. Dying from nutrient deficiency is lame lol, better to keep that in management games. I’d rather the survival be avoiding predators

[rugged coral]

I’m not opposed to combating the elements either, something like scorched earth is a bit excessive. But the red zone in aberration is very cool

[winged dome]

Having weather actually affecting survival gameplay is good, but it should be more interesting than just 'wait till it's over' like SE Sandstorm/Electrical Storms and Ext Meteors

[frail jackal]

Is there supposed to be pvp?

Having a debate with a friend

[fallow niche]

Yep, see all info in the pins.

[small forum]

Wildcard, Gameplay the ARK 2 in the game adwards?

[split dove]

nothing confirmed. could be, could also not be as they haven't said anything about it yet. only way to know if they'll surprise us like they did with ark 2's announcement at the 2020 game awards is to watch it unless they state nothing will appear at the game awards

[small forum]

In 2020 they did notify that they would be there, but they did not say that they were going to announce, what remains is that they appear as a surprise, which is their favorite thing xd

[split dove]

i forgot about that small detail (they announced they would be there)

[desert swallow]

so you're saying there's a chance!

[split dove]

Oh boy, here i go speculating again!

[past wind]

The two times they attended TGA, they’ve hinted it in advance (first for Atlas and then for Ark 2).

[desert swallow]

They said "next time you see anything Ark 2 it will be gameplay" That's a clue!

[past wind]

For Atlas, there was even the leaked trailer 🤣

[fallow niche]

Atlas was not Wildcard

[past wind]

They have plenty of stuff to show on those 3 last weeks of 2022. Like scorched ascension and the new content of Ark. And also SOTF. So, I wouldn’t expect anything this year.

[past wind]

But it is, just under a different brand

[fallow niche]

No, it's not. It's GrapeShot, the sister company.

[desert swallow]

A curse upon your house!

[fallow niche]

There are some members of Wildcard, that does not mean it is Wildcard

Either way, not on topic.

[past wind]

We both know lots of big names of Wc were in GS in the beginning. Like Jat, bubble etc. but whatever. To me WC is all over the place. Actually the trailer of Atlas was leaked in the Ark channel. 🤣

[fallow niche]

.....it's still not Wildcard. It was GrapeShot.

[past wind]

I’m all hyped for the gameplay, but I’m just trying to set our expectations right.

[fallow niche]

How was Atlas leaked in this discord when it was only made 2 years ago.

[split dove]

i think he meant the ark youtube channel

[desert swallow]

speculation

[past wind]

Yes

[fallow niche]

Because that's their sister company, it still is not Wildcard

[twilit sky]

Grapeshot is a sister company of wildcard, but still not wildcard

XD

Jinx

[desert swallow]

Anyways, I went out and bought snacks, drinks and an adjustable viewing chair for tomorrows gameplay reveal.

[split dove]

🍿

[fallow niche]

Any info regarding Ark 2 will get pinned here if/when anything gets shown or announced

[split dove]

for me it starts at 1:30 am on the 9th. i love timezones

[twilit sky]

No a new dev team

Literally why the private company was made

[desert swallow]

timezones are but a made up construct by man, what you should really be thanking is the earths orbit and tilt relative to the sun.

[twilit sky]

So wildcard could focus on ark, and new team could do atlas

We can continue this chat in general though 😉 it’s turning less and less ark 2 here

[desert swallow]

do you guys think we'll be able to poop in ark2?

[fallow niche]

Why

[split dove]

no, we will summon/cast it with the magic alien plants

[fallow niche]

PLANTS?

[desert swallow]

I think that's how the game play trailer should start. A close up of a bob panning down their body then "You defecacted". Fin.

[stray elm]

I hope so.

[split dove]

yes, i use them in my poop soup

[stray elm]

Being able to shit was a staple in ARK-1.

[fallow niche]

Rude

[stray elm]

Not many survival games had actual bowel system.

Then Scum came around and allows you to also piss.

[desert swallow]

They could make constipation a debuff

[stray elm]

Scum does have a whole system with your bowels.

Basically, when you eat something, of course you'll need to use the bathroom like in ARK.
But in Scum, you can also take a number-1, which will help regulate your sodium intake.

[desert swallow]

interesting. This appeals to me

[south lance]

piss on the bobs

[stray elm]

But sadly ARK-2 isn't going to improve on the survival mechanics, so we'll probably see the same food and thirst system in ARK-2.

[fallow niche]

Can we not 🙃

[stray elm]

To be fair. Depending on the gameplay of ARK-2, I'd love a true-survival mode.

Maybe they can introduce that as a gamemode later-on.
Needing to worry about more stats then just food and thirst, limbs have their own healthpools like in the Fallout games, everything does more damage but you do more damage back, etc.

[blissful perch]

It’s possible we get hitzones which would maybe include limbs and “wounding” beyond the “lol broken bones” status ark 1 has

[stray elm]

Yeah, being able to cripple a limb would be cool.

[winged dome]

Don't forget the bleeding eyes status 😂

[stray elm]

I've always wondered "what the fuck does crippling the torso do?" in Fallout games.

[blissful perch]

Even just basic hitzones like requiring bolas hit the legs/feet or having damage vary based on where you hit something would be interesting

[stray elm]

Yeah, actually needing to fucking aim with bola's would be nice.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't tranq darts more potent near the heart irl?

[winged dome]

Whatever gets their contents into circulation better, probably

[stray elm]

OOOOH, crippling torso's gives you negative Endurance in Fallout.
Well, instead of that in ARK-2, why not make it that you get dealt a bit extra damage if your torso is crippled?

[stray elm]

I'd think the heart, since that's literally where blood flows from

[desert swallow]

I wonder if hitting below the belt will be allowed in pvp

[past wind]

Nah, go play The sims. I think Ark already covers very well basic needs and body care.

More than that it would be too much. It’s funny the first 5 minutes, but then it will be just annoying.

They can improve the system, yeah, but they shouldn’t make it more complex.

[stray elm]

Silence you.

This is why I said 'a gamemode'

[past wind]

Sure, but a fundamental change like that can’t be “just a mode”, I guess

[thick moat]

there's a constipation debuff actually on ark 1 when the hunger bar is white

[stray elm]

It very much can.

Who's saying they can't?

[thick moat]

primitve plus?

[past wind]

My point is it will need a lot of work. Not that simple

[stray elm]

Exactly.
Fucking primitive+ changed the whole gameplay loop of ARK.

[stray elm]

Never said it'd be simple.

[past wind]

I remember it was cancelled because it was too much work 🤣

[thick moat]

no it was Ced that started working at Wildcard

[past wind]

Man, IF people want it, they might do it

[thick moat]

it's like codigoalex with Titan

[stray elm]

Yeah, it was more cause Cedric wasn't working on it anymore, since he had other things to do.

[past wind]

I remember all of that. It was basically at the same time the issues started and scorched came.

[past wind]

Also cancelled

[stray elm]

Cancelled 'for now'

[past wind]

You are not helping the idea of having multiple modes

[stray elm]

He stated he might work on it again later on.

[thick moat]

it all depends on the x amount of the playerbase asking for it

[past wind]

Sure, like everything else they would work again “in the future”

[past wind]

Exactly

[stray elm]

Or if someone made a mod and how popular it is.

The-Hunted 2.0 GUYS!!

[thick moat]

ohhh ye

[past wind]

I really hope they keep the mods contests

[stray elm]

I doubt they wont

[past wind]

That’s the best approach IMO

[thick moat]

y

[past wind]

And now having mod.io it will be even better

Mods for all platforms

[tidal tundra]

whens ark 2 coming out

[fallow niche]

2023 is all we know. Pins for all official info.

[tidal tundra]

damn

[stray elm]

We're about to see if tomorrow will have the gameplay stuff.

But I'm still want my Xcom 3.

[crisp hill]

do u reckon the graphics will be that much better than ark 1? steam page doesnt rlly look that promising

unless im missing smt

[stray elm]

The trailers are in-engine, so they're already a lot better model-wise then ARK-1.

With also tools like Nanite, I don't see why they'd lower the quality of the creatures from the trailers.
That'd kind of would defeat the purpose of Nanite.

[winged dome]

Nanite? Whuzzat?

[stray elm]

You don't know?

[winged dome]

N-no

Unless you mean like tiny robots

[stray elm]

Nope, hang on

[stray elm]

TL:DR: a tool that's featured in Unreal-5 that's an AI-system that removes the point of LoD's. (Level of Details)
So for the longest time till now (still will, since seems like this is a Unreal-only feature) dev's had to make multiple versions of the same model for every single mesh.
You have the highly detailed one for up close viewing, then you have the medium view-distance one of them loosing some triangles (the shape that makes up a mesh) so it's still understandable from a distance, then you got the very far away ones, aka the fucking butchered ones that look like they're from Half-Life 1.
Some dev's do different amounts of LoD's to make the transition more smoother then just three, but the point is that LoD's take a LOT of room for the game.

Weeeeell, Nanite said 'fuck you' and ignores all of this.
Basically, it gets a highly detailed model, and will automatically butcherize it the farther a player is to the mesh.
This is a BIG fucking deal, since now dev's wont have to make 20+ versions of the same fucking model just for render-distance.

Yes, that's the TL:DR of Nanite to give an idea of it.
A very barebone TL:DR though is "Nanite good."

[crisp hill]

Damnnnn, that's actually very interesting

so, would they use that for all models? or just dinos/terrain?

[stray elm]

Dinosaurs are models, and Nanite effects all models/meshes.
And recently, all fucking foliage.

[winged dome]

Very cool, thanks for the explanation

[stray elm]

No more 2D fucking trees!!!

If you ever notice in games, trees go into a 2D state if they're like a mile away.

Which is normally the minimal LoD (a literal 2D picture)
But yet again, Nanite says "Fuck this, have good trees" and with version 5.1 of Unreal-5, Nanite now effects foliage.

[stray elm]

So in short, there should be no reasoning (that I can think of) why Wildcard wouldn't just use the models they have in the trailers for the final product.

Then there's LUMEN, that I don't know as much as I do with Nanite.
But I believe it's the same thing, but for shadows and lighting.

[crisp hill]

honestly, if the models in the trailer are the ones theyll use in game, then that's a real improvement

but would the calculations put extra strain on performance?

[stray elm]

Funny story 'No'
They thought about this with Nanite, and (I don't fucking know how, this shit is cracked) they somehow made it very performance friendly.

I can send you a video if you want me to of someone stress testing it, and placing (if I recall) like 1.5 Million triangles worth of meshes to test Nanite.
They got a steady 40-50 fps if I recall.
A decent dip, for having a shitload of stuff happening at once.

[mortal raven]

lumen is real time lighting. long story short tho UE5 is OP.

[untold ingot]

It's worth the watch of that video

Basically Ue5 took graphics and said let's make it look real on a potato

[stray elm]

Basically.
UE5 is going to be revolutionary.

[untold ingot]

If the other engines don't figure out how to replicate it I could see Ue5 taking over everything lol

[stray elm]

Cause it'll (in theory) force other companies to actually give a shit about their engines when they see this free software is miles better then their own private ones.

[mortal raven]

yea lmao

[latent hornet]

Is there anye chance we could see tonight anye gameplay of ark2? Because last year they did on this event well

[fallow niche]

Some of us are hoping for it, but no one knows aside from Wildcard.

[tough bolt]

Bros are they gonna show ark 2 gameplay today?

[fallow niche]

@tough bolt

[tough bolt]

Oh...

Bro I can't wait for it

They need to show it lol.

[royal nebula]

I hope

We all praying for it at this point lmao

What time are the game awards?

[fallow niche]

7:30 EST

[blissful perch]

I’m in class during the awards so this will be interesting. @split dove can you hold the fort while I’m gone 😂

Maybe even be the best person ever and hit me up with a time stamp if any extra news comes out?

[split dove]

my guy it starts at 1:30 am for me

good thing i'm uneployed atm and i got time

[ripe cedar]

[blissful perch]

Maybe @stray elm can cover for you Flobs 🤣

I’m trusting Lotus will DM me instantly if they don’t show so he can reee

[bold juniper]

7 pm eat?

Est

[fallow niche]

I'll be watching too, 7:30 est

[desert swallow]

I heard it was 8:30 est?

oh ok just googled it

[fallow niche]

Pre-show is at 7:30, the actual awards are at 8:30

[desert swallow]

Tailgate party at 5:30

BYOB

[lavish rain]

I'll try

[worldly garden]

00:30 - 03:00 for me, no way i'm staying up to watch it. 😆

[pure siren]

I feel like a kid on Christmas morning! I so hope we aren't all disappointed today!!!

[grand lynx]

Bring your own bob

[small forum]

You the UK o America?

[worldly garden]

UK

[small forum]

Oh ok

[blissful perch]

no idea why you'd be so excited though lol

wait until we actually have official confirmation of news 😂

[small forum]

I thought you were from America, but when you see that the game awards you start to see it the same way I do, well, I'm surprised, that's why I asked you

[worldly garden]

I'm confident there won't be any ARK, the main reason why i'm not staying up for it. 😆

[mint swan]

Lol

[small forum]

Well, I do trust, since wildcard is a surprise factor, they don't say anything and appear out of nowhere, ced already said it in a tweet xd

[desert swallow]

They know if they do nothing we riot

I trust they will pull through for us

[gentle night]

But they’ve not said they’ll do anything? That’ll be on you for expecting them to satisfy your needs

[tropic crag]

A wise man once said, "A rushed game is forever bad, a delayed game is eventually good."

[gentle night]

Frfr

[desert swallow]

yes, but you want to please your customer base to not lose sales and more importantly gain sales. You don't think they have employees like ced watching these kind of convos? I understand what you are saying, but to disappoint when they've had a trend of exposing more info at the game awards would be a marketing mistake on their part.

[tropic crag]

Not really, lol

[gentle night]

There’s promising something, then there’s someone expecting someone to come to a concert without them saying they’re coming

[small forum]

is that today is the day, it is the perfect day to teach Ark 2 gameplay, it will attract a lot of new people

[tropic crag]

The game isn't even up for pre-purchase, they ain't "losing" jack squat 😂

[upbeat panther]

i get what jordan is saying

[desert swallow]

Exactly, gain sales, they have every motivation to $how their game to a large audience beyond just the ark audience.

[upbeat panther]

but it probably doesnt matter

[tropic crag]

In the grand scheme of things, them showing up at one particular show does not indeed matter, for the most part

[iron sequoia]

Just dont get hopes up
As they haven’t stated they will be there.

[nocturne raptor]

"Today we doing 100 days b4 ark gameplay gets released"

"Day 96, I sat about in bed waiting for ark devs to send a vid of ark2, all they sent was exploit fixes and many more trolls"

[tropic crag]

And if people don't buy the game simply because it didn't show at The Game Awards, they weren't real fans anyways

[upbeat panther]

mm true

[gentle night]

Unfortunately 95% of the people on this discord think they’re entitled to the game :P

[tropic crag]

Yeah, that's kinda the eternal issue nowadays, entitlement... and the repercussions of it

[gentle night]

Sure I was sad when they delayed it, but a. As if I’d buy the game at the start anyways and B. Who cares if it means a much more stable game

[tropic crag]

See: CoD, or literally almost any AAA game these days

If the game is better for it, delay the hell out of it. Delay it til 2030, idgaf. Just don't become Star Citizen, that's all I ask (feature creep and shady business practices aren't my forte 😅 )

[sinful ermine]

What does entitled mean in this context?

[gentle night]

basically they expect wildcard to give them what they want, when they want it

[sinful ermine]

Well that’s unrealistic

Did they say they won’t be at Game Awards?

[tropic crag]

No, but they also haven't said they will

[gentle night]

it's not unrealistic, if it's literally what's happening every single time there's some kinda games event

[tropic crag]

So it's unrealistic to demand that they show something every time there's an event, yeah. But not to call the players that do so entitled (just to cover both potential contexts, lol)

[inland oak]

Thing about Ark2 gameplay is that WC announce if they putting Ark2 gameplay they will inform which we dint get any infor yet

[worldly garden]

I don't think WC have ever said they would actually inform us.

[split dove]

yh they only said the next time they shared anything ark 2 related it would be gameplay.

[desert swallow]

Look at people thinking they are entitled to be informed.

[worldly garden]

I don't think anyone is thinking like that, at least not in this conversation.

[desert swallow]

It was a jab at the accusation of entitlement above.

[tropic crag]

Is it not entitled to expect and demand them to show the game off before it's ready? Lmao

[inland oak]

they told

anyway I also want to see today

[tropic crag]

What did they tell?

[worldly garden]

All they said about showing ARK 2 gameplay was this:

"We see your interest buuut...

the next time we talk about or share anything related to ark 2, it will be gameplay (yay!)"

[inland oak]

when they gonna say anything related to ark2 its gameplay

[pure siren]

I don't think anyone is "expecting or demanding" them to show the game. People are just excited and really hope to see game play. If a game is to be released in the first half of 2023 which has been communicated, it would be in their best interest to share something with the community. Build hype.

[inland oak]

yea

well I too hype

I thought they will show at charity event

but gaming award is the best I guess lets see

[worldly garden]

That basically means the next time they show or talk Ark 2 it will be gameplay. It doesn't say they would inform us when they are going to do it.

[inland oak]

or ced say mic check 1,2, 1,2 maybe 12th gameplay who knows lol surprice

[worldly garden]

Now that's tinfoil hat territory lol. That's just Ced returning for holiday. 😆

[inland oak]

well we can keep expect and wait lets see

its hard to guess now

[quiet shore]

Well, tonight's the night.

[inland oak]

live in 7hours xD

[stoic brook]

By informing us of ark 2 reveal would then be talk of ark 2 thus they can’t tell us they are showing gameplay at the awards as that would then be talking of ark 2 and they’d be going against their word.

[mortal kestrel]

real fans would want arkII to release in 2024 in a buggy mess in traditional wildcard standard

[tropic crag]

Big brain think right here

[mortal kestrel]

all jokes aside, I dont really care if it shows up in any events as long as I can play it in 2023, wildcard already said it will be released in early access, so Im expecting bugs anyway... as long as the game is playable Im down to vibe with 5 years of early access again ngl

[tropic crag]

Early access does give a lot of leeway as far as the overall functionality of the game, it really only barely has to be playable and they could release it, like Ark 1 was

Same here

[gentle night]

lol

[iron sequoia]

[gentle night]

om nom nom

oh wait no that look slike im eating the otter

[inland oak]

yea its gonna release on early access with ofc bug

but optimize I am expecting

my rtx 3080ti drops fps on Ark1 lol wtf xD

[gentle night]

yeah i hope it's properly optimised

[inland oak]

yea

also UE 5 cant wait

[mortal kestrel]

I just hope they dont rush the coding, as that is the primary source of most of arkIs problems

[inland oak]

yea they had 2 years

next year gonna be 3rd

[mortal kestrel]

terrible base code, so naturally the code built off of it is also terrible

[gentle night]

i shouldn't have to buy a full 1tb just for one single game, or have to buy 16gb of ram only to have it fully used

[inland oak]

I think more than enough time

[mortal kestrel]

that isnt actually

arkI for example was made in only 7 months by 9 people

[inland oak]

this time they really had enough time

[mortal kestrel]

I do believe wildcard said at some point they have been working on arkII as early as extinctions release

[gentle night]

probably

[mint swan]

ark 2 is gonna be vin diesel simulator

[inland oak]

well Microsoft also involve

[gentle night]

as ark 1 originally ended at extinction right

[mortal kestrel]

so its been longer than 2 years, but of course, progress in 2020-21 is probably slower than normal due to the impact of covid

[inland oak]

yea but ending it makes a sound right

[mint swan]

tho props to vin diesel for survival of the fittest

[gentle night]

what are you on about?

[mortal kestrel]

yes and no

extinction was meant to be arkIs original ending, but wildcard took a different route with the games story during its production

[gentle night]

i mean

it's yes to my question then

[stoic pier]

Have you watched the game awards trailer ?

[mint swan]

vin diesel and how he is a major influence in the development of ark 2

[gentle night]

because it was originally meant to

[inland oak]

no

[gentle night]

no, as i couldn't care less

[mortal kestrel]

so currently, the island through extinction is essentially the first book of arks story, and genesis marks the second book of the story... Arat will be book 3

[inland oak]

anything interested?

[stoic pier]

Could be hints in it

[gentle night]

don't get your hopes up

[stoic pier]

But your not the only one in the channel

[mortal kestrel]

yeah, its pretty awesome ngl

I love the crashed ring we saw at the end

[mortal kestrel]

hints for what?

[stoic pier]

Dont know

Ark2 ?

[mortal kestrel]

also arkII aint going to be a vin diesel simulator

its already said to be the same type of game as arkI, so I imagine santiago will play a similar role to hlna in arkII, guiding you through the world and telling you about events

[mortal kestrel]

yeah but what about arkII?

[gentle night]

i'm not expecting anything too exciting, probably the trailer we've seen before

[mint swan]

vin diesel simulator but it's fast and furious with dinosaurs

[mortal kestrel]

hints mean nothing if you dont know what they apply to, and naming the entire game doesnt narrow it down much

[inland oak]

yea if its all vin diesel chars then it will awkward and surely they will allow us to customized the chars

[mortal kestrel]

you can literally see on the steam page for arkII that we wont be playing as vin diesel

[inland oak]

yea

[mortal kestrel]

santiago will be an npc

[mint swan]

I'm sure we can customize our character to look like santiago

[mortal kestrel]

and it would be weird for the survivors to look like santiago when he is already in the game world indepenedently

[gentle night]

heh, like most people in this channel /j

[inland oak]

trailer is just to show off but map looks like we gonna play on it

[wanton pike]

Next thing they will show is gameplay, which is pretty exciting if you ask me

[mortal kestrel]

Im sure they "shot" the trailer on bits of the map itself, with some cinematic flair of course

[inland oak]

yea it is

[gentle night]

but imnot talking about what wildcard have said, im talking about the event thing tonight

[mortal kestrel]

I want to see arkIIs parkour in action

[split dove]

as long as there are tattoos and double swords i can become Kratos in Ark 2

[mortal kestrel]

I want to see some wall running, and grappling hooks with swing physics

[inland oak]

if u see clearly again trailer, there is lots of places to climb

[past wind]

And what makes you think Ark 2 will be presented there?

[mint swan]

I'm gonna be gigachad

[gentle night]

oml

[wanton pike]

Oh, since this is a ark 2 only topic I figured you were talking about that lol mb

[gentle night]

i said im not expecting anything.

[mortal kestrel]

Im sure arkII will have a pretty detailed character creator.. arkI has a pretty good one compared to most survival games, and ue5 has hell of a lot more options

[inland oak]

yea

[ripe cedar]

And will use a helluva lot more storage space

[inland oak]

I believe in UE 5

but still its our WC xD

[mint swan]

We all know some clown is gonna make every U.S president

[wintry urchin]

It would be cool if you could change age in Ark 2, like u could be old as fuck for no reason

[mortal kestrel]

personally I dont care how much better the arkII character creator is as long as I can make my survivors ass bigger without deforming their stomach, like what happens in arkI

[past wind]

You’ve said they will present the same trailer: “i'm not expecting anything too exciting, probably the trailer we've seen before”

[gentle night]

that pretty much means nothing, as it's nothing new

[wanton pike]

Lol

[mint swan]

Walter White in ark 2 confirmed

[inland oak]

NPC thing is nice I like Arati something

[mortal kestrel]

jeef beezos in arkII

[mortal kestrel]

aratai*

[stoic pier]

funny

[inland oak]

also that Anky is promising

[mortal kestrel]

the anky looks epic

[ripe cedar]

If they are not showing it at game awards then when? They shared nothing at extra life so obviously they are waiting for something to happen before actually talking about the game

[past wind]

Not so ergonomic though

[mortal kestrel]

meh

[inland oak]

yea

[gentle night]

ya be patient till it happens :3

[inland oak]

if they dint show us today

[past wind]

Whenever they are ready to

[inland oak]

then we cant expect untill they really show us lol

[ripe cedar]

If they are waiting to reach a certain point in development then they could at least share concept art and stuff like that beforehand

[inland oak]

I think scared to give us something and maybe ruin

[mortal kestrel]

I dont think wildcard would promise gameplay if the games development is that far behind

[ripe cedar]

Who said it was behind?

[past wind]

They’ve done that already and the next time they will share gameplay footage. When? Whenever they are ready

[ripe cedar]

1 png

[mint swan]

they could at least show the all awaited rat hole spots

[wanton pike]

They announced ark 2 in bloody 2021 😅 and they’ve delayed it by a year. I hope the development is nearly done hahah

[mortal kestrel]

it could be worse

[inland oak]

Yea

[mortal kestrel]

it could be hytale, announced way back in 2019 and still not out

[past wind]

No. There’s a lot of info on their posts and talks they did

[gentle night]

games take time to develop :P

[mint swan]

I swear, meshing in ark 2 might be worse

[blissful perch]

They didn’t show ark 2 in extra life. Sooo I wouldn’t assume 😛

[inland oak]

well any way if they gonna release next year it will be on 25th of December 2023 for sure

[gentle night]

nah it wouldn't be a Christmas release

[mint swan]

I have found rat holes in horizon forbidden west before

[wanton pike]

Hytale is a entire different story though. But they delayed for a lot of good reasons

[past wind]

Huge probability of it being released at H1

Based on the gamepass banner

[inland oak]

well lots of release happens on June month

[mortal kestrel]

it will definitely be worse, with parkour being a core game mechanic

[inland oak]

still doubt

[wanton pike]

They said it’ll be the first half of 2023, so probs June then lol

[inland oak]

yea maybe

[mortal kestrel]

june 29th

[inland oak]

its not full release right so can atleast guess next year release

[pure siren]

Ced said something along the lines at Extra life, that he has seen game play and seeing that is what really sold him on the new third person etc...if I am recalling correctly.

[past wind]

They didn’t say anything, but the gamepass banner set a deadline (all games will be released on the next 12 months, until July/2023)

[mortal kestrel]

yeah it will be an early access release

[past wind]

He said that on Twitter actually

[mint swan]

you think they might recreate some custom maps from ark 1 into ark 2 like ragnarok or crystal isles?

[wanton pike]

No they said it’ll be released in the first half of 2023.

[past wind]

No they didn’t

[wanton pike]

Okay

[inland oak]

ofc they will put atleast 50% copy paste ark1

[mortal kestrel]

idk about that

but I personally want to see aberration recreated

[mint swan]

I dont think so

[pure siren]

regardless, where it was said - it is at a point where game play is able to be done

[blissful perch]

Ok but Ced also likely has access to the internal build lol. We do not. Someone is playing the game since it’s being made by someone 😂

[past wind]

What? It’s a new map/world

[mint swan]

aberration would look sweet in better lighting and higher quality textures

[mint swan]

Why would they do that??

[inland oak]

I know, I mean the design, like trees

because its easy

[mortal kestrel]

thats not possible, as their version of ue4 isnt compatible with ue5

[blissful perch]

They may copy paste some visual assets tho

[inland oak]

I dint say coding

[past wind]

But 50%? No way.

[mint swan]

Ark 2 is on a completely different planet its not going to look the same at all as the old maps

[inland oak]

maybe visual yes

[mint swan]

that's where you rebuild the entire map from scratch and copy it just as it was

[past wind]

UE5 has its own new library they will use I believe

[mortal kestrel]

well Im not complaining if visual assets are copied here and there, its not like arkI is a terrible looking game

[wanton pike]

I wonder if we will start with one playable map or more

[blissful perch]

It’s not a knock that I could tell if WC conserves assets where possible. It’s just efficient 🤷‍♂️

[inland oak]

ofc they will give us dlc later on

[past wind]

One I guess

[mortal kestrel]

but I dont see why wildcard wouldnt use ue5 foliage that probably works better with the new engine anyway, seeing as they are looking to push boundaries of the survival genre with arkII

[past wind]

Reading in between the lines: “massive alien planet”

[mortal kestrel]

arkIis combat is looking like it will be hella lit

[past wind]

It will be massive, but just one

[mint swan]

ue4 foliage looks gross imo

[inland oak]

yea Ark1 only just bad in 2 things, one is optimize and 2nd is server crash

if they fix those on ARk2 will be better

[mortal kestrel]

actually I've personally never experienced a single server crash in my 6k hours of ark

[past wind]

Man, looking Fortnite I would say nanite makes a huge difference

[wanton pike]

Maybe we will have combat skills with different weapons

[inland oak]

then u dint play gen2

[wanton pike]

That’ll be lit

[mortal kestrel]

I did