#40k-book-club

1 messages Β· Page 81 of 1

runic fiber
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I've yet to read a single 40k book

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feel like I'd be best off listening to audiobooks if I did try to

copper sphinx
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defi a good idea inca

fickle falcon
copper sphinx
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their audiobooks are pretty good

wooden harbor
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yeah

runic fiber
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πŸ™

tawdry forum
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yeah same, i always liked the idea of them being like the federation or something but less optimistic but they never really pick on a solid thee

copper sphinx
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relatively high quality

wooden harbor
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also there's Helsreach pt1 as a fan animation that is exceptionally well done

tawdry forum
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who knows maybe one day they'll get a new named alien auxiliary model species

copper sphinx
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that's most 40k faction though tbh

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just look at the eldar

wooden harbor
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like, that one is inspiring

tawdry forum
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mmmm, eldar have some good novels

reef lily
# copper sphinx that's most 40k faction though tbh

See the Tau take it to a special next level. A great example of the absurdity level of the Tau is that they had a Dyson Sphere at one point, and while it was destroyed by the Imperium during the half-assed crusade against them, the fact that it existed at all is insane.

copper sphinx
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they have phoenix lords that can literally rend space in two, to just get beat by regular space marines in the next scene

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it's silly

wooden harbor
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I'm still wilded out that Helsreach was done using Dawn of War 2 stuff

copper sphinx
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yeah i feel you vikscar

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but a si said, almost all factions have shit like that

tawdry forum
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oh man, the new wave of necron novels have been good

wooden harbor
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it was a machinima in DoWII's engine rather

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or was it reggular DoW

tawdry forum
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the infinite and the divine was just so much fun

reef lily
fickle falcon
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Only read the Infinite and the Divine which was pretty nice. Had Brutal Kunnin' last month which I weirdly enjoyed even more (which I didn't expect)

copper sphinx
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emperor is another one

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goes from infinite power, to having his sons just snatched away

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lol

tawdry forum
wooden harbor
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also if you guys wanna learn about an Inquisitor with a literal horse face, Gaunt's Ghosts series

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good ol Gholesh Heldane

fickle falcon
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Is that the same Heldane from Eisenhorn or am I mixing up names?

wooden harbor
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it is!

fickle falcon
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Sweet, nice to see characters return in other books

reef lily
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The fact that the Tau created one from scratch means they should by all rights be absurdly more advanced than the Imperium, not just the little edge they're shown to have. A Dyson Sphere really isn't something that you can just have getting mentioned just to be destroyed in essentially the same passage without any context. .-.

radiant jay
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Have both of'em and don't remember shit

wooden harbor
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in Eisenhorn he didnt have the horse's head yet

copper sphinx
reef lily
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it's baby Heldane

fickle falcon
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I was hoping they did a new novel on the Tinkerer (named Jokaero from an Inquisition short story which popt up in the second Blackstone Fortress book 2)

copper sphinx
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and then you got necrons literally denying the warp through anchors

wooden harbor
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it was after ||he was mauled by a space lion creature that he had his face surgically reconstructed using a literal horse's head.||

copper sphinx
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it's great

fickle falcon
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That party animal is my fav little xenos

copper sphinx
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but also widely unreliable

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depending on whos book you're reading

tawdry forum
copper sphinx
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you assume whoever is the main race for a book, will be the op one

reef lily
# copper sphinx and the emperor was literally building his own webway

yeah but that was like a big thing and it was back during the great crusade 30k, the problem with the Tau is that they're a little babi race who should be for all intents and purposes insignificant next to the Imperium, but then writers are like "oh yeah btw they had this -insert absurd world breaking tech level- and then the imperium destroyed it, so sad πŸ˜” ."

tawdry forum
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hmmm, that reminds me of a certain former BL author recently complaining about the lack of creative freedom BL is allowed

copper sphinx
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unless you're written by gav thorpe

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||aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa||

fiery jay
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Yeah, the problem is that Astartes ARE cool, and people forget that being a protagonist doesn't mean you're the good guy.
It gets more complicated when you start talking about the Wolves, Blood Angels, and Salamanders which are all... At least capable of passing as people instead of inhuman monsters?

tawdry forum
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i just want to know what its like to live on a tau world

wooden harbor
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Haldane kinda is one of the inspirations for my hawk beastman inquisitor. That and official art of heraldry depicting grey knights with eagle heads

copper sphinx
runic fiber
copper sphinx
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no doubt

tawdry forum
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or uhh, some earth caste models would be neat

copper sphinx
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space romans lead a tight ship

fickle falcon
tawdry forum
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give me a tau forklift

tawdry forum
runic fiber
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honestly a good chunk of 40k factions get more ruined by the memes or fanfare around them than the actual lore itself

copper sphinx
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otherwise it's ignoreable

tawdry forum
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i love the idea of lil marines with scutum art designs

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that would be adorable

reef lily
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This is why I tend to just invent my own factions for when I GM dark heresy.

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and leave the familiar faces to be cameos

copper sphinx
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and how they do things

tawdry forum
tawdry forum
runic fiber
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headcanon is best canon dw

wooden harbor
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like the years of 'spiritual liege' and other dumb memes and hate

radiant jay
reef lily
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The Ultramarines are actually one of the coolest astartes factions. Their political machinations are very interesting and entertaining to watch.

tawdry forum
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there was that old bit of hammk art

copper sphinx
tawdry forum
copper sphinx
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as much as anything is cared for in 40k ofc

fiery jay
# copper sphinx i'd live on a smurf planet

Yeah, the thing about smurfs is that Robobooty decided that his astartes were all going to be trained to be fantastic governors, so the realms of Ultramar are actually one of the two competently managed places in the Imperium. The other being places under Alpha Legion control, which appear to be competently run loyalist systems.
That said, the smurfs are still awful in a lot of other ways. They're responsible for governing people, but they're brainwashed child soldiers who went through a violence puberty into war golems, so they're fundamentally incapable of understanding humans on a very basic level.

tawdry forum
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thinking of nice astartes aesthetics makes me want to try and learn zbrush properly again

copper sphinx
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do it fam

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aslong as you got the motivation to do it continously

tawdry forum
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lol i got no artistic talent

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sadly i do not have the motivation

copper sphinx
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don't need talent

fiery jay
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Always, always, always remember that Astartes are post-human the way nuggets are post-chicken

copper sphinx
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you need hours

fickle falcon
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For me Marines (as protagonists) never hit the spot, but tbf I'm not into superhero or superhuman stuff. I prefer the underdog or something more relatable. Nothing better than a puny human fighting the horrors of the universe

reef lily
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the Ultramarines still aren't the good guys, have them show up in a political intrigue plot and they will be the faction of "the assassinations will continue until the legislation is passed."

wooden harbor
# radiant jay Can you spoiler a bit? I just can't remember that part

At one point in the Eisenhorn series ||he is savagely mauled by a carnodon iirc, which ruined his upper body and face. He then gets reconstructive surgery at one point, as he slowly goes mad and falls to renegade tendencies. By the time he shows back up in Gaunt's Ghosts, he is effectively a beastman, his face is a fully animate horse's face by then. He chose to use the head of a horse as it made him look more terrifying.||

copper sphinx
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they'd just crush skulls until they got everythign under control

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kek

reef lily
tawdry forum
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oh man there was someone who made an stl for like a cuman space marine helmet that was incredible

copper sphinx
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the reason why i said i'd live on a smurf planet is mostly cause it would be stable

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ultramarines = stability imo

reef lily
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until the plague war

radiant jay
fickle falcon
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Was hoping there would be a dedicated story for Obsidius Mallex (CSM lord), don't want to spoil why tho

fiery jay
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Ultramarines absolutely use assassination to secure political power, as it's generally better for securing order after the fact.

fiery jay
wooden harbor
tawdry forum
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hmm, wonder if we'll ever see something like the old tyrannic war vet models

reef lily
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Honestly, the Plague War is one of those things that I really wish GW had done differently. Mortarion is just not an interesting foil to Guilliman.

copper sphinx
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mortarion isn't very interesting at all

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i can't remember him doing anything interesting in any of hte books tbh

fickle falcon
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yeah he stinks

copper sphinx
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he is such a gloomy character

radiant jay
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Does he make an appearance in the Bequin series?

wooden harbor
reef lily
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They have a character that would be perfect, in the form of Lorgar, but they seem utterly incapable of using him effectively.

wooden harbor
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I think our boi ADB just needs to get ahold of Lorgar and ho boy

fickle falcon
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Ima get something to eat, have a good day/evening/night (depending on where you are)

copper sphinx
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it feels like they've painted themselves into a corner with mortarion lol

wooden harbor
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I am looking forward to ADB's take on the daemon primarch

reef lily
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Lorgar and Guilliman have hands down the most interesting ideological conflict of all the Primarchs, and if GW were smart they'd set Lorgar up as Guilliman's dark mirror in the Dark Imperium. He's a far more compelling villain than Mortarion or Abaddon.

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He has so much fucking potential

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but they just waste it

wooden harbor
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yes

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Also as a thing, yeah this is a roleplay related thing, but hey so, what do you believe me and mine do when Word Bearer's show up?

reef lily
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idk, what?

copper sphinx
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you run the other way?

wooden harbor
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Pretty much, while firing everything.

tawdry forum
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man, i miss josh reynolds

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the bile books and apocalypse are great

wooden harbor
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Word Bearers are so dangerous, not because they are peerless warriors

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every second the faithful fight a Word Bearer, the more likely they fall to chaos.

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for the Word Bearers preach as they fight, and they have silver tongues, their chants and battle sermons can almost turn any of the most devout loyalist into slaves of darkness.

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Your only defense is to be deaf

copper sphinx
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i'm not a super fan of word bearers mostly due to erebus

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god i hated reading horus heresy

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cause you knew, the moment erebus showed

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another primarch would fall

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for some dumbass reason

reef lily
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retract before impact is what that's called

tawdry forum
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idk if there are any good wordbearers books but they were great villains in apocalypse

reef lily
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I personally really enjoyed The First Heretic

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The First Heretic

copper sphinx
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i enjoy the look of wordbearers

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the tattet prayers on the skin

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looks dope

tawdry forum
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i love some of the pre heresy word bearers art i've seen

reef lily
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Also, gotta give props to the writers of Gothic Fleet Armada 2 for the alternate chaos ending.

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Monarchia Redeemed

copper sphinx
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love me some goth fleet

wooden harbor
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I don't take the threat of the Word Bearer's Legion lightly.
and I hope that they can do Lorgar justice, if anyone could turn the faithful to slaves of darkness in droves, it'd be him.

tawdry forum
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this pic is honestly the best pre-heresy wordbearers piece anyone has done

copper sphinx
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oh wow those banners look real oldschool haha

tawdry forum
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elijah ahrpriest has done some incredible art

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great guy

hearty niche
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Eisenhorn series is a great start! Tobby Longworth also does the audio books. There's also adjacent stories and series featuring the other characters they are a great read!

reef lily
wooden harbor
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also I am repeatedly being ||brought to tears when it comes to Angron. I legit want to give that mad daemon a hug||

fiery jay
tawdry forum
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angron did just need a hug

wooden harbor
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ye

tawdry forum
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stopping his revolution was a dick move the guy needed a win

fiery jay
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Angron needed to not have been called a "failed experiment" to his face by the Emperor.

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If the Emperor had said "Removing the butcher's nails will probably kill you, so you're probably going to die." and then just yoinked them, that would have been happier for everybody.

inner yacht
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what dingleberry at'd me

wooden harbor
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Angron was in many ways one of the more human of the Primarchs, ||his moments of lucidity were special, even after he was lost and damned and achieved apotheosis, him weeping as a full fledged daemon primarch asking "Father... Is it over?" hit hard||

fiery jay
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Everything traces back to the Emperor being a really shitty person who is bad at his job

tawdry forum
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rip embeds for the time being lol

wooden harbor
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I need to get some rest, toodles!
as well as read the csm codex

reef lily
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IIRC The Emperor didn't remove the butcher's nails because he realized that the thing he'd get if he did would not be an improvement. Angron was the most empathetic of the primarchs, he would have been a broken and pathetic being indeed without something to constantly keep pushing him onward. The Butchers Nails were really the only thing keeping Angron going past a certain point.

Without them he would have been a mentally broken and tortured wreck with no will to fight.

The Emperor made the decision to use Angron as the faulty too he was, rather than break him completely, which is what would have happened even if Angron had survived the nails being removed.

rotund pilot
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did someone ping me

reef lily
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It's sad realizing the Emperor could have removed the nails but didn't, but the real tragedy is realizing that it wouldn't have made anything better for Angron.

fiery jay
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The best outcome would have been Angron dying in surgery.

reef lily
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Book Club ping, check pins

reef lily
fiery jay
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And the Emperor Not shit talking him to his face in front of the others

reef lily
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The butcher's nails broke him some completely that his only options were Abject Misery or Constant Agony.

rotund pilot
reef lily
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Death would have been a sweet release.

fiery jay
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The emperor didn't learn his lesson about unstable tools from the Thunder Warriors

tawdry forum
reef lily
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no he could not

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he is definitely the most tragic primarch.

fiery jay
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I mean, heck, if he had explained things to Angron, and then had Angron choose, any path forward would have been a win.

reef lily
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Yeah, indeed, sadly the Emperor at the end of the day saw the primarchs as tools not as people.

fiery jay
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Yeah, and he is as bad at using tools as you would expect from a bronze-age barbarian.

reef lily
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He didn't even consider angron as a person or what he would want, he just looked at it and said, "okay he's fucked but what use can I still get out of him before he breaks completely."

fiery jay
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Ugh, and the Thunder Warriors wouldn't have even been a problem if he had told them "You're going to be like gods among men for 10-20 years then die, but you'll create a world for your families where they will never need know fear"

reef lily
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Just remember, there's another universe out there where Lorgar never got the nails, never fell to chaos, and he and Sanguinius were best bros.

fiery jay
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Then there wouldn't have been Astartes hunting down rogue tools that outlived their usefulness

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Yeah, that'd the nobelbright universe

reef lily
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Lorgar pre-nails would have been a perfect compliment to Sanguinius, Sanguinius with his boisterous inspiration and Lorgar with his calm understanding.

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They're literally 2/3rds of a Shounen main caste

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Throw in Guilliman and then you've got the Protagonist, the Heart, and the Brains.

fiery jay
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Leman Russ would also work

reef lily
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he would indeed

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if we expanded this to a more traditional 5-man band instead of a Shounen 3

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Russ makes a great Lancer

fiery jay
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Yep

wooden harbor
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Angron probably could have overcome the misery and grown stronger had the nails been removed. Facing one's failures and accepting them leads to growth

ornate trellis
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+1

clear wasp
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ok i'll do it

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2 books left till release

fiery jay
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This is what is known as a "Multi-media cross-promotion campaign", FYI limesBlep

orchid kelp
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Where can I find an ebook version?
The Google store only has it in Spanish and, as much as I would just love to read about the Spanish Inquisition, my Spanish is a bit rusty

fickle falcon
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There are a few sketchy youtube channels that either post BL audiobooks or steal ones from people like aborder prince

orchid kelp
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Eisenhorn: Xenos, the one from the pin

magic sable
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Thought the channel exploded with intense book discussion

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Anyway Eisenhorn fucks read it right now

orchid kelp
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Looks like I can get it on the Black Library

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Hm, I should check the bookstore I buy my books from. See if they have the omnibus trilogy

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I think I'd rather read it as a paper novel

magic sable
cedar citrus
orchid kelp
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Hearing people read aloud irritates me

elfin galleon
timid cove
toxic nebula
runic fiber
dreamy ledge
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holy fuck perfection is so fucking good

hard tulip
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lol the amount of people crying over getting pinged when its as simple as mute or just ignore it

wicked hedge
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can also confirm the eisenhorn series are fantastic books, i went from there onto gaunts ghosts and then onto ciaphas cain, all within the last 2 years or so πŸ˜…

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all as paper, i find it difficult listening to audio books and would much rather it over a file on a tablet

hot venture
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I do a lot of audiobooks at work. Mindless factory work.

ionic shore
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Is this gonna be the first of a series of book club readalongs or just a one time thing? (currently in middle of some Nightlords stuff but def interested in the idea of this haha)

timid cove
ionic shore
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ah cewl πŸ‘Œ

hearty niche
jaunty stratus
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makes me wonder who is faster, the book club reaching the bequin series, abnett finishing the series or me arriving just in time, because I still wait for a localised audiobook

glass sparrow
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I will not go back into my hole, for I have never left it.

glass sparrow
dreamy ledge
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and 20% spite

glass sparrow
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it was EC, of course there was spite, and yeah the big thing about the start was "who done it?" and the suspect just start killing each other off one by one.

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a part of me started to laugh once I got to the end though.

floral grove
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hi

bleak mauve
floral grove
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there's no other way

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there is no other way

fiery jay
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If you want a good view into how awful the Emperor is, Master of Mankind is a great book.

thorn bison
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I'm reading that one right now!

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||Fun to see it from a daemons perspective|| That rarely happens in there novels

fiery jay
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Well, ||daemons aren't people||, so it makes sense for it to be rare

fossil anchor
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why was i ghost pinged tho

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hope this game flops

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suck my cock fat nerds

bleak mauve
thorn bison
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I think I've only seen that same concept in Astorath: Angel of Mercy and First Heretic with Argel Tal

glass sparrow
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wow, that's the response of a mature individual

fresh sun
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Them leaving just raised the average IQ of this whole server by several points
incredible
ANYWAY I just read the first few chapters of Eisenhorn, and man this is a good intro to a story. I think I should have started with this instead of Gaunt's Ghosts

ionic shore
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lmao, wow... yeah

agile hedge
toxic nebula
thorn bison
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The quality rises considerably by book 4

fresh sun
thorn bison
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mumper did

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Kinda cringe of him ngl

fresh sun
oak pollen
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he got pissed over a ghost ping?

thorn bison
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babybrain reaction honestly

agile hedge
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Before that its passable

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Dunno how but I feel like Dan sometimes has issues writing women though ?

fresh sun
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Yeah, the first book was alright, I'm just kinda stuck in the second one. Not a fan of the disconnected vignette thing that's going on

agile hedge
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Yeah and I feel like, the disconnection feeling there is harder compared to what Mitchell does for example ?

fresh sun
agile hedge
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That's just a gut feeling, moreso the wait they are written and how Gaunt reacts to them aka him being on the defensive, feeling aggressed

thorn bison
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I don't write but I'd guess it's harder to write a character of the opposite sex than it is writing one of the same

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I wouldn't know tho

fresh sun
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True, I know I wouldn't be able to

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Then again I probably can't write a decent character of the same sex either lmao

thorn bison
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Probably why Severina Raine is the most well written female character I've found so far

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Because the author is Rachel Harrison

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But that same book also depicts the men (or, really all non-main characters) as pretty shallow and uninteresting

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So who knows

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I might be reading too far into it

fresh sun
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Yeah, it can be hard to tell sometimes

thorn bison
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As always the fault is human and difficult to fix

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Can it be fixed?

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Maybe

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Guy Haley writes all his characters really well imo

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Women and men alike

fresh sun
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Is Dan Abnett considered a very good author within the Black Library, or is it that his work is the most accessible and thus the best introduction to 40k fiction in general?

thorn bison
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He's considered a very good author

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But yes, his work is very accessible

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He has written over 50 works for BL after all

fresh sun
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That many? Wow. Yeah, the only point of reference I really had oh him before starting Ghosts was the fact that it was a big enough of a deal to make a video saying Darktide's story has Abnett at the helm.

thorn bison
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Abnett is considered one of the "High Lords" of Warhammer writers and along with a bunch of other authors he has a hand in writing the lore for the universes of 40k and AoE

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Or so I have understood it

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The title High Lord is one he uses to describe fellow veteran authors

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It's kinda funny

fresh sun
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lmao

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A true mark of distinction

thorn bison
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He did write two of the best selling series in BL history so he has proof to back this title up

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And he wrote the first book of the Horus Heresy series

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I think he's been writing for 30 or so years

desert carbon
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Dan is a great writer

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understands the series

fresh sun
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Does he do much outside of 40k?

ionic shore
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Ive found his endings in books to be very meh tho

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(for ones ive read so far anyways) being ||xenos and malleus.||
Soft spoilers for xenos ||I found the ending to be very rushed. There was alot happening. Bunch of tension and excitement building up, and then it just ends. Kinda outta no where. Felt like there should of been a whole extra chapter or something imo||

thorn bison
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He might

fresh sun
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Well, nothing wrong with sticking with what you know I suppose, especially if you can do it well

ionic shore
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He's written for a bunch of other stuff

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namely SCIFI

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some marvel stuff too

fresh sun
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Ah, Abnett did some 2000 A.D. stuff too, neat.

sinful basin
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i think the start of the next book is kind of anticlimatic with the end of the last one. but that is very ussual even with the same author

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the phase of the end of a book is not the same as the start of another

keen cave
random marlin
# agile hedge Dunno how but I feel like Dan sometimes has issues writing women though ?

Hey Zherlum, I have the same feeling but I assumed it was youthful mistakes from Dan Abnett as I only read from him the GG's series until His Last Command. As Abnett seems to be improving as a writer the more he writes (actually, I find him very good from the start in some departments, but there's room improvement for others, such as the way he writes women), I'm assuming this issue will be settled for him at some point.

The two examples I have in mind of Abnett having issue writing female characters are from Necropolis and Traitor General:

  • In Necropolis, ||there's a noble female character who meets Gaunt a couple of times and although they've barely spoken, it's enough for her to fall in love with him, culminating in a sex scene while the city is falling iirc. This character never felt real to me and was just "well as she's a woman, obviously she'll fall in love with the hero!".||
  • In Traitor General, ||the two main female characters are fighting each other for Gaunt's attention. Ok, I get that it's because of Chaos' influence, but did it have to make women around Gaunt just horny for him, as a woman fall to Chaos can only be linked to her relationship to sex and the next powerful man near her?||

So I'm not sure that Abnett's earlier works pass the Bechdel test. However, in the last GG books I read, there was already an improvement with characters like Tona Criid who seemed not to be only defined by their relationship to a man ||(although she is in a couple with Caffran, but that's not the only thing defining her)||.

Anyway, I share the feeling that Dan has issues writing women, but is it still the cases in more recent works?

random marlin
# thorn bison I don't write but I'd guess it's harder to write a character of the opposite sex...

I don't know why there are so many male authors who have trouble writing good female characters, but it's definitely the case, to the point where there are articles on the Internet on how to write them. This one, for instance, gives hilarious instances of male writers writing female characters poorly: https://richiebilling.com/writing-tips/men-writing-women-5-mistakes-to-watch-out-for

I really liked GG Martin's answer in an interview about how he writes compelling, interesting female characters:

Interviewer: "There's one thing that's interesting about your books. I noticed that you write women really well and really different. Where does that come from?"
GG Martin: "You know I've always considered women to be people."

That about sums it up. Some male writers tend to write women as strange, mysterious creatures from their point of view only defined by their relationships to men when they should be written, well, just as people with dreams, hopes, flaws.

random marlin
full wave
# random marlin Hey Zherlum, I have the same feeling but I assumed it was youthful mistakes from...

Definitenely not if you read the Bequin Trilogy. πŸ˜‰ The best I have read of him so far.
One thing people must understand and that now a days it is commonly missed, regarding Dan Abnett Β΄s work in the 40k novel scene, is how pivotal and transformational it was.
Before Dan started to write for 40k, the novels in general were trash. With an absolute lack of vision to portray the 40k universe in a relatable and believable way. All the works done before Dan, were sticking to the extremely narrow view given by the tabletop game descriptions, resulting in lame, simplistic and cartoonish representations of the verse. They were afraid to create anything outside that limited boundary and felt short to create meaningful representations of the 40k verse.
Dan Abnett understood the insane potential the 40k verse had to represent a very compelling universe outside just battles and explosions. He was the very first to dive into the possibilities outside that narrow view of the tabletop game, and started to expand and world-build the verse of 40k in a relatable and believable way. Without him and his initial contribution we wouldnt have the rich verse we enjoy now in the form of the vast amount of novels and other media. He was a pioneer that carved the path for many other authors to follow, me included.
I can say without a doubt, that his work has been very influential in my own work πŸ˜‰

copper sphinx
#

It's gonna be so much fun to get to know the inquisitor we follow in DT

#

Curious how much of a puritan or radical they will be

random marlin
# full wave Definitenely not if you read the Bequin Trilogy. πŸ˜‰ The best I have read of him ...

Everything you said is true Miguel, and it's indeed important to stress it. From what I heard, Abnett is so good in worldbuilding that he's the one who imagined names for things like vox-casters, ihlo-sticks and then it was made canon and used widely in the lore and other books by other authors.

I have the feeling that, from the get-go, worldbuilding, action scenes and making characters relatable were his strong points, and he definitely had a huge impact on BL productions. As I only started reading it a couple of years ago, I was surprised by the fact that he also had weaknesses (female characters, pacing in some of his novels with the final battle being very quick, as if he rushed to finish it), as he's a very praised author. But he did pave the way for other authors such as Demski-Bowden, Fehervari or tchaikovsky who are very talented and have unique takes on the universe, and you can also see his style improving, keeping his strong points and getting better on some of his weaker points.

I'm looking forward to read the Inquisitor novels leading to Bequin, but I have to wait for my wife to read them first. Thought Eisenhorn would be a good entry point for her from everything I heard about it. πŸ™‚

copper sphinx
#

Eisenhorn is great

#

Well worth a read

mellow knot
#

On the subject of women writing for women in a male dominated IP… when I was asked to write for a reasonably prominent female character, I was then asked β€˜you don’t mind that she’s a woman, do you, because people will just assume we’ve asked you to write for this character BECAUSE she’s a she…’

thorn bison
#

Wait nevermind

#

There is ACTUALLY an author named Tchaikovsky, just like the Russian composer

#

I thought you were being funny but you were dead serious

copper sphinx
#

I also did a "huh" when I read that

thorn bison
#

"Huh, didn't know he was still alive, good for him"

random marlin
random marlin
copper sphinx
#

Oh that sounds pretty cool

#

Different perspective too

full wave
random marlin
mellow knot
#

It’s a tough audience.

thorn bison
#

I'm not gonna assume you're writing her because she's a woman, I'm gonna assume you're writing her because you're a competent author

#

Simple as

#

Alas, everyone has their own view on things

#

I'm just one in the crowd

mellow knot
#

Which should be the assumption, and I thank you for it πŸ™‚

random marlin
#

That reminds me of when I put my review of Honourbound on Goodreads. I disliked the book because of the angle chosen (basically, putting aside the satirical/critical aspects of the setting and being dead serious about all of it). I disliked it because of this, not because it was written by a woman and/or because the main protagonist was a woman.

Still, I had someone commenting "yeah, BL are going woke these days!". I facepalmed hard on this one. That... was not the point I was making. At all.

glass sparrow
#

So I am currently listening to Ahriman: Unchanged and I just wanted to meme about this bit.
Ahriman: "nothing like reliving old traumatic events to get you where you need to!"

glass sparrow
thorn bison
#

I thought it was good but there's definitely room for improvement

#

Should you read it? Yes

#

Will you like it? No idea

glass sparrow
#

I tend to finish things once I start them at least book wise. for instance Fulgrim the HH book not the primarchs series book. I did not care about half the things in it, but I still finished it.

mellow knot
#

It’s a tough thing being a female writer in a male dominated IP and that’s the tragedy of it all.

thorn bison
mellow knot
#

I love Fulgrim. I also love that other people don’t necessarily like what I do - it’s all a matter of personal preference.

#

And it’d be outrageously dull if everyone liked the same things πŸ™‚

random marlin
# glass sparrow I've been constantly going back and forth on whether or not I should pick that o...

I think ultimately, it depends of what you're looking for in an Astra Militarum novel.

I wrote a review about it on Goodreads which may answer your question: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/3225991132

And I'm in the minority on disliking that book, so take that into account too. πŸ™‚

This review was tough to write. I always try to write reviews in a way which is as respectful as possible to the author, because I can only imagine how much effort and patience it must have taken to write such a book.

Oh and also, it was before GW released a statement reaffirming that the Imperium must be seen as satire, which kind of reassured me because I was starting to think they really wanted to forget about the origins of the setting to move in more "the Imperium are the good guys and they have no choice but to do what they do", which is the vibe Honourbound is giving.

glass sparrow
#

Might give it a check then. I am not a massive fan of the idea of this faction is the defacto "good guys" when it comes to 40k. I more look for the parts that make you forget everything else is mired in an ocean of shit. Like cain and the Sabbat crusade series of books. Hell it's why I enjoy Ahriman, and the first farsight book that was released on audible a few months ago.

orchid kelp
#

Well, unfortunately the bookstore I go to doesn't have Eisenhorn

#

I think I'm just going to buy an ebook version from the Black Library

abstract cliff
#

Ebook is honestly the way to go with 40k books

void stirrup
#

Feel like people make a base association between organization and individual. The Imperium is awful. Individual chapters, regiments, inquisitors can be noble and good. That is one reason why I love Guilliman being awake.

#

Ultramar in 30k had labor unions, fair work conditions (even on forge worlds!), education, allowed voluntary transfer and transport between worlds, voluntary military service, all while being one of the most productive regions in of the Imperium.

#

It gave the lie to Mechanicum and Imperial cruelty. It took four traitor legions, Daemons, and a massive Ruinstorm just to damage it. Now the being who built all that has to helm the modern Imperium, flying corpse babies and all. Or let humanity collapse and die.

abstract cliff
void stirrup
#

What is their alternative?

abstract cliff
#

Fair point. And they have also been conditioned to see some of the horrific shit as acceptable.

#

Like Cain doesn't even blink when he looks at servitors

void stirrup
#

En masse I disagree with and am horrified by them. As a general concept, the thought of turning murderers and rapists into lobotomized machines to perform tasks that are dangerous, no-one wants to, or physically can has some merit to me.
Still only remotely sane in practice, even in 40k, due to the Men of Iron/Gold/Stone problem and the proscription on automatons.

#

Robots almost wipe out humanity, gotta look at alternatives tldr

abstract cliff
#

"As a general concept, the thought of turning murderers and rapists into lobotomized machines to perform tasks that are dangerous, no-one wants to, or physically can has some merit to me. "

agile hedge
void stirrup
agile hedge
#

Its the Imperium you'll die a painful death either way what happens

#

Which is why there are so much rebellion and Chaos incursions

abstract cliff
#

Or be turned into a servitor which is probably the most horrific shit you could do to a person.

tall phoenix
void stirrup
#

Daemons exist, as do inquisitorial torture planets (seriously, entire planets dedicated to torture). 40k is awful

agile hedge
#

Like Big G said " A line must be drawn between what is good and what is evil, for if the Great Enemy comes with offers of power to a wretch, what reason does he have to refuse hell if he dwells in it already?"

tall phoenix
#

god

#

I love that quote

agile hedge
#

Same

#

Really emcompasses the situation in 40k

void stirrup
#

For anyone who hasn't read the Mechanicus Forge trilogy, there is a horrifying first person description of being turned into an arco-flagellant

tall phoenix
#

the new chaos codex establishes as well that many imperial worlds or almost all of them have a chaos cult in them since people seek the most deranged ways to escape the punishing existence they already have under the Imperium and seek an equally worse alternative too

void stirrup
abstract cliff
#

Rowboat has also probably glassed up hundreds of worlds to ruin

agile hedge
#

You say as he is literally trying to fix the Imperium in all of his books

void stirrup
#

He can't do everything, but different authors really seem to muck with his personality

agile hedge
#

They do yeah, which is why HH is ass after the first 5-8 books

tall phoenix
#

no wait some were human

#

ANYWAY

void stirrup
#

Still working through that. On 29, Spirit of Vengeance. Books by ADB and Abnett are ones I look forward to.

#

Straight, McNeil and Haley are hit and miss. Others make me groan and skim.

void stirrup
abstract cliff
#

Alright the alternative is that he just beat them to submission and told them "Join us or you all die."

#

Still a bad guy

tall phoenix
#

Well yeah

#

thats the joke

#

all the Primarchs are genocidal warlords

void stirrup
#

The irony that rampant Exterminatus was a tactic of the daemon worshipping crazies, and is a favorite tactic of the inquisition is just great

chilly loom
#

BL'S attempts to woobify Guilliman after, like every primarch, participated in the genocide campaign that was the great crusade ByTheNine

void stirrup
abstract cliff
#

And when diplomacy fails?

#

They beat the shit out of them

#

The primarchs aren't good. They're just less shit

void stirrup
#

Yes? That is what you do when you run into miniature versions of modern 40k

tall phoenix
#

Ultramarines put kids through a machine-gun field where wolves rip them apart under barbwire or they step on landmines

#

so

void stirrup
#

Modern 40k

tall phoenix
#

thats in modern 40k

#

yes

void stirrup
#

So... Completely inapplicable to 30k

abstract cliff
#

You're high as hell if you think 30k Imperium was much better.

tall phoenix
#

^

#

30k Imperium was the same as 40k

abstract cliff
#

The Emperor has always been a mad dictator

tall phoenix
#

just less active leaders

#

and war machines

#

and YEP

#

The Emperor was just the warlord with the biggest stick at the time

void stirrup
#

Literally just posted about how Ultramar had labor unions, education, worker protection, etc. The whole point of Guilliman being different

abstract cliff
#

Yeah. He literally goes "Yeah we're doing it my way. If you disagree you get turned into a living automaton or get killed. No questions. No debate. My way or the highway."

void stirrup
#

Yes, every other book has characters huffing copium as to why it is okay they slaughter people

void stirrup
abstract cliff
#

Still talking about the Emperor. Whom Guilliman pledge his undying loyalty to.

void stirrup
#

Again, the guy uses his own power to make something better. Versus the alternative of rebelling, which would just result in death for him and everyone he has made things better for.

#

At some point you have to try to improve a system instead of railing against it.

abstract cliff
#

Still supports a genocidial turbo dictator.

#

No amount of copium is gonna change that

void stirrup
#

It's why I like Perty. He doesn't get an opportunity to do good. In that instance, yes, rebellion is the only sound option

abstract cliff
#

You are also the guy who said this.

#

"As a general concept, the thought of turning murderers and rapists into lobotomized machines to perform tasks that are dangerous, no-one wants to, or physically can has some merit to me. "

void stirrup
#

Logic/=copium. Your argument is effectively that no-one should work for an immoral government or leader. There isn't a society of any significant size on the planet that can claim that.

chilly loom
#

There isnt a government as immoral as the imperium

#

Thats kind of the point

abstract cliff
#

I don't think there's winning this argument with the military grade amounts of copium this dude is huffing

chilly loom
#

Yeah this is just My Faction are goodguys ultra copium

void stirrup
#

Yes, I did. Seeing as how the death penalty and it's merits are something that have been discussed for over three thousand, the hypothetical of doing something productive has SOME merit. I didn't give it a ringing endorsement. In effect it is more awful, torturous, and even inefficient than any alternative and still only passes muster in 40k due to the Men of Iron/Gold/Stone, which is also what I said.

void stirrup
#

Can't really get behind playing most Imperials on tabletop. Would be like choosing to play Nazis in Bolt Action.

copper sphinx
#

Was a good attempt @void stirrup

void stirrup
copper sphinx
#

You're not really allowed to think anything is good in warhammer on this server lul

proud hare
#

Boltguns are pretty good

void stirrup
#

Oh well. Kind of hard to change anyone's mind if there is no stake or shared rules for arbitration/decision. Time to go pick up πŸ•

abstract cliff
#

Kharn is a good lad.

#

What a boy he is.

tall phoenix
agile hedge
#

We're just saying, don't think the genocidal and full of warcrimes Empire are the good guys

chilly loom
#

Woe as me, no one here actually likes warhammer sadbob

talking to ppl who own several armies

#

Genuinely hilarious

glass sparrow
#

damn, we must really hate the setting if we can go into detail about the lore of 40k just so we can point out why everything went to shit.

magic sable
#

I just like to read the books and look at the minis

glass sparrow
#

well, it is the book club channel so it's a given that we all like books here.

tall phoenix
#

Books are evil

abstract cliff
#

Words can go to hell tbh

glass sparrow
#

you sound like the Catholic church

magic sable
tall phoenix
#

Reading is not allowed

wintry tinsel
copper sphinx
#

Started listening to eisenhorn xenos today, was a few years since I read it last time. Starts out a lot stronger than I remember .

#

Honestly thought I would remember more than I did lul

tepid blaze
#

Great Crusade was neccesary cant change my mind

craggy sphinx
tall phoenix
craggy sphinx
glass sparrow
#

shame that the few ruined the ability for the rest to use gifs in book club

tall phoenix
#

It can probably get turned on later

#

at worst just ask Aqshy in private since the channel is calm now that the lurkers left

wintry tinsel
#

Lurkers? πŸ‘€

#

Also trying to find new prints of the Gotrek books will not happen

glass sparrow
#

It'll probably get turned on after the first book club meeting probably, or not. Either way I'll cope lol.

fresh sun
#

Alright, question about Eisenhorn, Chapter 5: ||So Eisenhorn just knew about Pontius from old readings he did during his Inquisitorial training? Was this "Pontius heresy" some larger event in the 40k timeline that is explained elsewhere? Or is this elaborated on later in the novel? Feels almost like this information suddenly came out of nowhere to keep the plot moving, was wondering if I was missing something here.||

glass sparrow
#

it is a event that more will be disclosed as the book and the series goes on.

#

and it's more so that it was a pretty big event in that sector to be specific than anything really.

toxic nebula
fresh sun
#

Gotcha, thank you both. I guess in my head I was thinking that finding out ||who or what Pontius was|| was going to be a bigger mystery to be worked towards, but then if felt like a few pages later Eisenhorn is like "actually I already know lol" and that threw me off.

toxic nebula
#

the key thing to understand with books around the inquisition is that because a character thinks they know, doesn't mean they are right

#

also iirc ||his confusion is less on what pontius heresy was and more why is it turning up here of all places||

#

been a while since i read the book, got a new copy for my bday froma cousin tho so gonna crack it open for book club stuff

fresh sun
#

Yes, that's true, unreliable narrator and all that.

sinful basin
tulip imp
#

Anything as good as Valdor: Birth of the Imperium come out in the last few years?

drowsy urchin
#

The Infinite & The Divine

#

best 40k book to come out in years

tulip imp
#

Read it.

drowsy urchin
#

excellent

#

if you liked it I'd say Twice Dead King is great as well

#

Penitent was also fucking great, although you'd need to go through all the books before it

tulip imp
#

Been so long since I read any of the Eisenhorn or Ravenor books.

drowsy urchin
#

I've heard they get even better on the second time around

copper sphinx
glass sparrow
#

the Ghazkull book that was released

#

and I'd say the first book in the Twice Dead King series: Ruin.

grizzled raptor
#

Anyone able to recommend and good Krieg or Thousand Sons reading material?

toxic nebula
#

only krieg book i've read is dead men standing, it wasn't good

#

idk about TS i'm afraid

glass sparrow
#

there is the Ahriman series of books

chilly loom
#

So I have heard

#

Its also not TSons, but Talon of Horus and Black Legion has a formerly TSons character and I love those books

grizzled raptor
#

Oh okay I'll have to check them out, thanks for the recommendations

clear wasp
#

how do you pronounce "Arbites" ?

tall phoenix
#

Ar-bites

#

or well bytes i guess

#

some people say it as "Ar-biteez" but thats really weird

sweet slate
#

Ar - like arrrrr imma pirate
bit - like bit the basic brick in computer science
es - like free real EStates

drowsy urchin
#

ar-by-tee

tall phoenix
#

^

#

most just say Arbiters

#

which is easier

clear wasp
#

there's a whole reddit thread about it

#

thanks πŸ‘

sweet slate
#

You are welcome

tall phoenix
clear wasp
tall phoenix
#

Oh no i was sad about that spelling reddit thread but thanks KEK

sweet slate
drowsy urchin
#

english is a stupid language

#

or rather most languages are

sweet slate
drowsy urchin
#

chad languages pronounce the same letter always the same way regardless of the word

#

like mine

sweet slate
#

Chad languages pronounce how they write

drowsy urchin
#

exactly so

oak pollen
midnight wind
#

I finally finished Horus Rising and Holy shit. I want to continue the series so bad but also want to read my other non-Horus Heresy books. How do people juggle that? Like obviously I know how it ends, but why do I still feel worried that I'll be spoiled?

tall phoenix
#

Honestly theres not many huge spoilers?

#

you already get enough winks of whats going to happen so most of these characters are not gonna die anytime soon

midnight wind
# tall phoenix Honestly theres not many huge spoilers?

See and I know that, I truly do. It just feels that way because it's so far in the future, you know what I mean? It's like refusing to watch the Original trilogy of starwars before finishing the prequels if that makes sense

#

I think the large part of it is Loken, I've grown attached to Loken

tall phoenix
#

Oh god yeah dont worry Loken is gonna be AROUUUND

#

I wont say too much but dont be scared of anything happening to any of the loyalist parts of the traitor legions

midnight wind
#

Honestly I naively thought that all of the Luna Wolves turned traitor

#

Especially with how Loken looks at Horus. So I'm super excited to see how that turns out

tall phoenix
#

Oh no yeah, like a majority do because they are all Horus stans but many traitor legions got loyalist elements in them.

#

but yep not gonna spoil beyond that so good luck πŸ‘€

oak pollen
#

and some loyalist had traitors πŸ˜›

midnight wind
#

Thank you! Also, it's possible to find all of the Horus Heresy books, right? Or at least through ebook if possible? That's my main concern. Because aren't there like 50??

tall phoenix
#

Uhhh

#

let me see

tall phoenix
#

Theres books, short stories, primarch books

#

the Horus Heresy officialy ends with Burried Dagger, then its the Siege of Terra

steep patio
#

"so, ye. the heresy is over. nothing else to see here. see you next week for the first installment of THE SIEGE. bring your friends. bye!"

magic sable
copper sphinx
#

ar-biteez is how the official audiobook pronounces it

copper sphinx
#

||but then again, the narrator keeps calling one of the smaller ships a "navy penis" lul ||

tulip imp
#

Sounds like are-bee-teez to me.

#

At least in the audiobook for Xenos

copper sphinx
#

alright so looking up the book he actually is trying to say Navy Pinnace

#

lmao

teal igloo
#

Arr-bit-ezs is how I read it phonetically

sweet slate
#

Cannot believe that even GW audiobooks pronounce it wrong lol

copper sphinx
#

it's a madeup word, and english is a crapshot when it comes to grammar

#

is there even a known correct way to say it?

sweet slate
#

While being a madeup word it is based on latin, and we can use it to get the correct pronunciation

slender fulcrum
#

Pronounce it like arbiter but not arbiter lol

#

As silver said

#

Arr-bit-es

orchid kelp
#

I picked up the ebook version of the Eisenhorn Trilogy and have begun to read it. ||Wow. The first thing that happens is one of his retinue members dying. That's crazy.||

tulip imp
orchid kelp
#

I know 40k is a 'Abandon Ye Hope, All Who Enter Here' sort of deal but geez.

tall phoenix
#

Its mostly just Abnett being george martin

#

in a good way

#

πŸ—‘οΈ

fresh gazelle
#

What are some good aos books to start with

tall phoenix
#

@grizzled raptor

real basalt
#

I've been trying to look into getting the Warhammer Chronicles series set in paperback, but it just looks like a nightmare in trying to buy

jaunty stratus
#

And the fourth book too

copper sphinx
#

but i'll leave that for bookclub!

thorn bison
#

Both are good

#

Granted, they are the only AoS books I've read, but still

fresh sun
#

Some thoughts on Eisenhorn, Ch. 12: ||Damn, the Helican Schism. They're really starting to up the ante here at the midpoint, which is pretty exciting. Makes me wonder just how far Fatshark plans to go with Darktide's evolving storyline post launch. ||

vernal ginkgo
#

I am still mystified at the ending to Pariah soo ||possibly pretty far if it has Dan Abnett attached||

orchid kelp
#

I'm four chapters in and this feels like a spy novel

#

Not that it's a bad thing

#

Just something to note

tulip imp
void stirrup
# fresh gazelle What are some good aos books to start with

Kinda depends on faction. If you like audiobooks, the AoS start of Gotrek is a good launching point. For Stormcast, the big realmgate wars omnibi, or Plague Garden. Scourge of Fate is a really fun Chaos book. Gloomspite is great as both a every day person book, and for gobbos

#

Overlords of the Iron Dragon is a Kharadron (steampunk sky pirate dwarfs) book. Really great for that faction, not really great for the setting. Extremely self contained.

scenic wadi
orchid kelp
#

Xenos

scenic wadi
wet portal
#

Got my first Warhammer novels. Dark Imperium; Deathwatch: The Long Vigil and the Sons of Sanguinius omnibus.

mellow knot
#

I love the Deathwatch.

ionic shore
stark relic
#

who else here is a fan of the night lords trilogy? i love the books and the audiobooks and cant wait to reread them

orchid kelp
#

I like Betancore so far

#

He's an interesting guy

fresh sun
fresh sun
#

How many people do we have reading Xenos atm?

ivory wadi
#

Think I'm on chapter 13 rn.

copper sphinx
#

i've got like 1-2 hours left to read

#

but i got a nightshift tonight so i'll be finished at that point

brittle pumice
#

Been peripherally aware of Warhammer for many years, and the "wargaming isn't for girls" mentality that I think used to put me off has evidently shifted on the whole, so Darktide served as a motivator to get more into the franchise.

copper sphinx
#

eisenhorn is as aqshy said a great intro to warhammer books

#

A lot of the books exist as audiobooks as well, if you like to multitask

brittle pumice
#

Yeah, I have some personal issues with some of Dan's writing I've read in the past (English Major background, it happens) but I'm not going to lie that Eisenhorn is just a fun read. I haven't read fiction in ages but it's just a nice, easy, fun romp that honestly constructs the world sooo well.

copper sphinx
#

i feel ya

#

i can't get myself to read dresden files anymore

#

cause i find the main character so fucking awful

#

and i can't help but feel that he is a self-insert of the author

timid cove
#

Checking on on week 1 of the book club! How's everyone doing? Can someone explain to me why one of the characters in the intro has blue skin? Is there significance to that or just 40k Things? ℒ️

tulip imp
#

What is being read?

toxic nebula
#

if i remember rightly its a significant thing

toxic nebula
tulip imp
#

Oh

#

Blue skin... Is this on Hubris?

#

And if it is, is it one of the characters in the court that wants Eisenhorn arrested?

toxic nebula
#

bear in mind to spoiler tag if ur aboutta spoiler, fair few first time readers

tulip imp
#

I'm not. I am just trying to get a feeling for where this mention is because I can't remember a prominent character with blue skin in Xenos.

#

Unrelated, but part of the reason why I hope that if there is eventually a fifth class that it's an Arbites is because of Fischig's armor on the new cover of Xenos.

timid cove
#

Nah, it was in the intro ||where one of the fighters died stuck to some cryotube iirc||?

toxic nebula
#

ooooh you mean right at the start ||during the chase through the stasis chambers on the ice world?||

tulip imp
#

||Yeah, that's Hubris. Are you talking about the one in Eisenhorn's retinue or just some dude that gets plugged?||

#

Look how baller that is

timid cove
#

||pretty sure she just gets plugged. She's dead now afaik||

tulip imp
#

||Don't think there was any significance to that beyond being cold and she lost a lot of blood before dying. Abnett is pretty good about telling you what information is important and what is just fluff.||

copper sphinx
#

almost looks like an ogryn on that pic lmao

nimble zealot
#

He makes that Arbite gear look good

fresh sun
timid cove
clear wasp
#

ok so regicide is a chess-like game in the 40k universe

#

i had to look it up because i had trouble imagining eisenhorn roleplaying with betancore about murdering kings

tulip imp
#

That's functionally what you do in chess.

oak pollen
#

^

#

chess started as a means to practice strategy for military officers

copper sphinx
#

a question to the newbies of warhammer 40k here

#

how do you feel about books and awrhammer using its own words for things?

#

like voxthief, regicide, or similar?

#

do you just continue on in the book assume you know what it is based on the word?

#

||cause eisenhorn mentions oscura, and i don't think it explains what it is at all ||

#

recaf turns up a lot in the ciaphas cain books

hearty niche
#

Trademarked name

clear wasp
#

i just look those words up, there are two (2) whole warhammer 40k wikis and i'm gonna use them

tall phoenix
#

it only gets wonky when you realise they cant say stuff like "fuck" and instead say "feth"

#

which comes across as really childish lul

copper sphinx
#

yeah, personally i love it, but i also know all these terms so i don't think about it

#

when iread

tall phoenix
#

Yeee as the others said just google them

#

recaf, lumen, vox, etc and other stuff is pretty common

#

if its anything confusing the lexi usually has a list of meanings of them

copper sphinx
#

yeah for sure

hearty niche
#

Gimmi too Dilara

#

Pwease

copper sphinx
#

like i get they cna't say fuck, and that's childish

#

but like feth has never taken me out of immersion

tall phoenix
#

It kinda has for me since they always censor it in other books with made up swears for it too

#

but for some reason can say shit, cunt, bitch, whore KEK

#

its a bit weird but so is book censorship laws

copper sphinx
#

maybe it's just cause i swear so weirdly irl haha

#

my goto swear irl is "gudars skymning"

#

which roughly tanslates to twilligt of gods

#

basicly the end is near

#

considering we aren't norse pagans anymore it doesnt really count as a swear i suppose

#

maybe that's why i don't mind the madeup swear in the books as much

torpid seal
#

out of all the books i've read i ony remember the night lords omnibus and saturnine to have swear words

#

maybe even jaghatai's book

toxic nebula
copper sphinx
#

ahhh that's true

toxic nebula
#

that and i genuinly just think the cain books are stellar

copper sphinx
#

so the reason why i brought this is up is that as a generally "experiened" diver into 40k you just automatically translate all teh odd terms

#

was curious if the newbies felt it was annoying or not

toxic nebula
#

all fantasy/scifi settings are full of things ive never seen before

#

you just get used to guessing

copper sphinx
#

apparently not everyone does that though skele, guess haha

#

i would say most terms are sort of easy to guess though

#

like obscura den

#

defi a nod to opium den

toxic nebula
#

oh im sure, but like

#

you don't need someone to explain exactly what obscura does

#

"oh ye its a drug den"

copper sphinx
#

ye

toxic nebula
#

thats all you need to know, and thats what the book gives you

#

you can fill the rest in yourself

copper sphinx
#

yeah, also a good point, how important is it really to know exactly what it is

#

found a bigger version of the cover

magic sable
tall phoenix
#

That genuinely shocked me when I was reading them will admit

magic sable
#

Same here.

#

Highly recommend the Warhammer Crime books to anyone who digs the detective aspects of Eisenhorn btw

copper sphinx
#

the warhammer crime books?

#

uh

#

is that some specific book about the arbites?

magic sable
copper sphinx
#

it's a whole genre

#

whaaaat

magic sable
#

I’ve read both Bloodlines as well as Flesh and Steel, both were very enjoyable reads

#

I should be starting Grim Repast once I finish the Fulgrim heresy book

copper sphinx
#

this is cool, had no idea

#

they all seem to be about the city varangantua

#

sounds a bit like necromunda

#

but instead of gangs

#

it's probators

#

haha

magic sable
#

Yeah pretty much lol. They all do take place in a hive city called Varangantua but the stories arent interconnected iirc.

copper sphinx
#

yeah from the descriptions they seem to be oneshots

magic sable
#

They do a really good job of showing what it’s like to be a more or less regular person in a 40k hive city

toxic nebula
#

atm you have standard mixed books, crime and horror

brisk arrow
#

I got that collectors edition twice dead king book last year and still haven’t read it

fallen warren
#

Hey, 40k noob here. Where do I jump in with the books to get a primer before darktide?

#

I've heard Gaunts Ghosts is a good entry point?

drowsy urchin
#

for example yeah

#

or eisenhorn, people are doing a book club on that at the moment as well

#

or if you want space marines and more "current" timeline probably Dark Imperium trilogy

fallen warren
#

Thanks!

brisk arrow
#

I’d recommend the ciaphas cain series of novels

lime verge
fallen warren
#

I appreciate the recs!

teal igloo
#

ciaphus cain will spoil you since the rest arent as good

vocal quest
mellow knot
#

A lot of Warhammer terminology is very contextual and I found it easy to work out what things were for the most part. I also love that lot of 40k tech is utterly borked.

clear wasp
toxic nebula
#

dance for us

#

in all seriousness i believe aqshy did a post saying when they'd do a book review

clear wasp
#

i would have but it says no gifs

toxic nebula
#

believe its pinned

clear wasp
#

i NEED to read, i'll just read the rest of the trilogy i can't wait for the end of the month sorry

fresh sun
#

Trip report on Xenos, Ch. 20: || Eisenhorn is the luckiest mf'er. Oberon getting beefed by a transport explosion felt a little too convenient, though I did like the bit with Mandragore getting killed because of the book. The description of the aliens and the "wrongness" of the planet was really neat. ||

oak pollen
#

||plot armor moment||

fresh sun
#

|| For real, just checkov's gun a fuel tank or something, then when Eisenhorn is about to be blasted just have him drop a one-liner and shoot it. It's cliche but it's better then "rocks fall, bad guy dies."||

tulip imp
#

||I always really liked the idea of the alien's hands being able to perfectly form a face by how they interconnect. It reminds me of that scene from the Mark Twain claymation episode where they meet Lucifer and he uses a mask on a stick but has no head.||

fresh sun
#

|| Yes, that was weird and awesome. I kinda wish more time was spent talking or interacting with the saruthi. ||

brisk arrow
#

Bruh the special edition twice dead king ruin is hella expensive now

orchid kelp
#

||It's somewhat unfortunate that it was the saruthi's method of perceiving the world that led to their corruption.||

orchid kelp
#

I have finished Xenos and have moved on to Malleus

#

Good book 10/10

#

Would read again

void stirrup
#

Over in the Heresy, I always thought the Dark Angels were kind of cool, but the legion equivalent of the guy who just HAS to one up everyone. On book 38, Angels of Caliban and it is like the authors are trying to make me hate the Dark Angels.

drowsy urchin
#

They're jackasses through and through lul

void stirrup
#

Everyone is overly convoluted (two, TWO separate characters even point this out), and they take the one-upmanship to new heights. Glaives are rare. Well, they have super duper Glaives that fire warp beams.

drowsy urchin
#

they've got cool arsenals though and the wings are neat

void stirrup
#

They have a level of "don't give a feth about civilians" that would be kind of extreme in 40k, only the Word Bearers or Night Lords seem to care less about people

drowsy urchin
#

hm, actually don't really remember that about them in the HH books

#

but it's been a while

void stirrup
#

The master of the death wing goes on a two and a half page inner monologue about how much he loves killing, is proud of killing, and isn't particularly choosey, all while fighting World Eaters.

#

Astelan and the boys back on Caliban outright say mortal lives are worthless. The Lion doesn't even seem to give a damn about skeleton towers made of millions of people, leaves survivors high and dry, and during a briefing says he doesn't care how the Night Lords brutalize the people of Ultramar

#

Like. Holy hell. And for a Knightly order that values honor and oaths... Not. A. Damn. One. Keeps. Their. Oath. Up to their Primarch who zooms off on a personal vendetta after swearing to protect Imperium Secundis and Sanguinius, directly leading to Sanguinius almost getting assassinated and Sotha getting destroyed (meaning the Lion is responsible for Tyranids)

#

The traitors are more likeable. (Well, except the Word Bearers)

drowsy urchin
#

All that really didn't come as much of a shock to me for I always saw the dark angels as jackasses but you're right lots of traitors are more likable than the angels

#

it doesn't really help that the HH DA books are pretty weak in general

#

Lion is an alright character though

#

Jackass too still

void stirrup
#

The Lion is a character that initially was "Ooh, he is mysterious and interesting. Secretive. Wonder what goes on in his head?". After 38 books, you can only drag that schtick out for so long.

#

We honestly get more insight into the Emperor than we do the Lion, or it feels like it to me.

drowsy urchin
#

Well Lion isn't in all of those 38 books thank god lul

#

he get's better later on

#

oh wait Angels of Caliban was one of the better DA books, did forget it was the latter one not one of the earlier ones

void stirrup
#

About a third of the way through

#

Hopefully gets better

drowsy urchin
#

He's pretty good in Unremembered Empire iirc

slim thistle
#

Man. I read Eisenhorn Omnibus almost a decade ago now probably. Just started Ravenor Omnibus to keep my Darktide hype going and it's good so far.

drowsy urchin
#

and it just gets better

slim thistle
drowsy urchin
#

Thankfully it doesn't

#

and Bequin gets EVEN better

slim thistle
#

Dang I didn't know there was another one. I'm behind.

#

Guess I'll get that too.

tribal crater
#

Now we just need to hope Dan doesn't pull a Winds of Winter and never write it

lime verge
#

Okay, what Horus Heresy books are actually worth reading to get the build up to it? I started the Siege of Terra books and most of em I get, but on occassion a character comes up that I have no idea who they are and they have 'history' lmao.

I did pick up know no fear, which on a quick search is basically described as the best of the HH novels.

lime verge
#

Listening to the audiobook of it while doing dishes. Pretty good setup

fervent eagle
#

I am curious

void stirrup
#

The Pharos is a device on Sotha that basically acts as a miniature Astronomicon.

#

It is what let's Secundis function

#

The Lion is SUPPOSED to be the Lord Protector (read Warmaster) of Secundis.

#

He ditches all responsibility to go chase Curze.... Who never left Macragge. So Guilliman and Sanguinius have to keep their forces on Macragge and other worlds

#

Sotha gets attacked by the Night Lords, the Lion can't be reached, so the loyalists only move is to blow it up or else the Night Lords will use it to reunify their legion.

#

The Pharos blowing up is what brings the Tyranids.

#

So I blame the Lion for not being there to even try. Obviously the Night Lords too.

fervent eagle
#

Ahh dope, thanks for explaining that to me

#

Fuck the dark angels amirite?

torpid seal
#

fr

#

night lords gang

fervent eagle
#

Dark angels kill more loyalists than the traitors lmao

drowsy urchin
# lime verge Okay, what Horus Heresy books are actually worth reading to get the build up to ...

Going straight to Siege of Terra will miss out on quite a lot but I do think it may stand on it's own pretty well as well. If you want to know more about the primarchs and their legions present in the Siege I'll list a couple novels in which they are featured the most

Horus Rising,
False Gods,
Galaxy in Flames,
Flight of the Eisenstein,
Fulgrim,
Angel Exterminatus,
Scars,
The Path of Heaven,
The Thousand Sons,
The Crimson King,
The Praetorian of Dorn,
Pharos,
Master of Mankind,
Wolfsbane,
Titandeath,
Slaves to Darkness,
The Buried Dagger.

Then you've also got the Ultramarines/Word Bearers story line which also involves the World Eaters quite heavily and they're present in the Siege as well

glass sparrow
#

DA's got a cool look and vibe to them, and hell they have some cool characters; but fuck me does their lore get fucked up by the whole Fallen story plotline

tall phoenix
#

bruh

#

their lore gets fucked up by the fallen storyline even IN 40k

#

they literally got nothing to do

glass sparrow
#

depending on your outlook, I think Prospero Burns is a good story to add to that list (if it is a things to read before the siege list) completes the story for the Prospero storyline and actually gives some depth to the wolves instead of mindless barbarians.

drowsy urchin
#

Oh I meant to add it to it yeah

#

but it's still mainly a wolves book and they're not at the Siege itself

#

I actually postponed reading it for ages because I didn't care for the Wolves at all but the book turned out to be alright

#

although I don't actually see it as mandatory or even important addition for the siege

glass sparrow
#

they have nothing to do besides chase the fallen

tall phoenix
#

RIP

glass sparrow
drowsy urchin
#

I do

#

they're jackasses

#

also they've got loads of different weapons most don't

glass sparrow
#

I hate to say it, but being a jackass isn't a DA exclusive trait

drowsy urchin
#

well true

#

though their jackassery does surpass most

glass sparrow
#

but is it Marines Malevolent levels of jackassery

drowsy urchin
#

oh, sure

#

was mostly regarding the original legions

lime verge
drowsy urchin
#

I see πŸ˜„
Most of those are worth a read on their own as well too

lime verge
#

I started a 30k Imperial fists army, so I may just focus on the Imperial Fists ones to keep me motivated lol

drowsy urchin
#

You're in luck for they get the most attention in the Siege series lul

#

but there are a few before it as well

thorn bison
drowsy urchin
#

Hmm true, even though they're not super active during the siege itself they do fight in the sol system

#

Also Legion is a brilliant book anyways

void stirrup
#

I begrudge Legion that it was the start of the Perpetuals and the Cabal

#

Abnett does some of the best work in the Black library. But he has this predilection for overly contrived/convoluted schemes

#

The literary equivalent of Rube Goldberg machines

#

I loathe the Perpetuals as a plot device. The Cabal is one step above Ian Watson's junk about the Ordo Hydra.

thorn bison
#

β€œOverly convoluted/contrived”

You are aware we're talking about the legion famed for this?

drowsy urchin
#

I don't really have negative opinions of the perpetuals

void stirrup
#

And Abnett started letting his prose wax toward Tolkien (and Watson) in Magos and the Bequin books. The story is still great, but geez. Did he feel like his literary lexicon was constrained previously or something?

void stirrup
#

They are honestly fairly straightforward. It is the secondary setting spanning plot he starts in that book I am referring to

thorn bison
#

The secondary plot is connected to maybe two individuals of note so I wouldn't say it's unreasonable for him to add it

#

I for one enjoy the extra story and lore it adds

void stirrup
# drowsy urchin I don't really have negative opinions of the perpetuals

The Horus Heresy was already dominated by Primarchs, these huge larger than life characters. But there still existed stories and space for Marines or even mortal heroes. By introducing a SECOND cast of immortal, more informed beings, more pivotal to the plot than any mundane/mortal actor it devalues and reduces literary space for any such actor to exist. Basically, the number of important non Perpetual, non Primarch characters drops to one or two captains a legion. The occasional Lotarra. Each of the Perpetuals roles could be filled by more conventional characters without adding another layer of abstraction.

#

This is more just me grumbling than any attempt to convince anyone

thorn bison
#

I have found three perpetual characters (not counting Vulkan) in all the HH books I've read

drowsy urchin
#

I don't really think having what 3 or 4 perpetuals diminishes other possibilities that much

thorn bison
#

I don't think they take up to much of the spotlight

void stirrup
#

On book 38 I'm up to 6?

drowsy urchin
#

the cabal has a couple that are only mentioned once iirc

void stirrup
#

Three of which have appeared multiple times, one stealing the spotlight repeatedly.

drowsy urchin
#

but re-occurring there are only the three or four I mentioned

thorn bison
#

Ollanius Pius, that guy who works for the cabal and the guy who tried to save the WB saint woman

#

That's the three I know of

void stirrup
#

John Grammaticus

#

Alivia, Erda, and Damon are the other big roles

#

There are 2-3 others that get name dropped but haven't done anything really yet

lime verge
#

Then theres this guy

thorn bison
#

Vulcan doesn't count as he's in the primarch category

#

He can't keep getting away with having both perpetual plot armour and primarch plot armour

void stirrup
#

Alivia and Damon are super egregious. Both have failed at every task they've had, with no interconnection requiring the same character. Each time they pop up could have been a different character, inject some variation. An eldar assassin. An ancient member of the Lunar cult, etc.

drowsy urchin
#

granted it's great to have a rekillable primarch

void stirrup
#

And yeah. Vulkan has the best plot armor

#

"Vulkan Lives!"

#

Stomp

#

STOMP

thorn bison
#

Yeah, I love the scene from Vulkan Lives ||where he gets killed by a fork||

drowsy urchin
#

lmao what

thorn bison
#

Yup it's great

drowsy urchin
#

the Salamander books are the only ones I've not read/listened

void stirrup
#

Curze is mean to big man

#

Really mean

drowsy urchin
#

Nick Kyme is a bit πŸ›Œ

void stirrup
#

Repeatedly

#

And creatively

thorn bison
#

Vulkan Lives is a must read imo

drowsy urchin
#

The Curze torture I've read at least in one book

#

oh I lied, I do have Vulkan Lives in my library

#

I just forgot

#

didn't go further than that in the Salamanders

void stirrup
#

It gave me the comedic moment I loved in Unremembered Empire. Curze getting hit by surprise by insane Vulkan and going "JUST DIE ALREADY!"

thorn bison
#

I love the β€œit's still a hammer” scene

#

Him just clocking Curze and then leaving without another word

void stirrup
#

Side note, the bit where Curze is arguably shown to be one of the fiercest Primarchs in a fight has made his death more poignant to me.

drowsy urchin
#

I really like Curze in the mainline HH books

void stirrup
#

The only one to get an edge on him so far has been Sanguinius. He freaking beat Guilliman and The Lion at the same time.

#

That book was great. So many moments were just perfect.

#

The wolves showing up and threatening Guilliman, only for him to say I just beat 10 space Marines alone, they go "But those were Word Bearers, we are the Vlyka Fenryka Tropica Ultimicia"

thorn bison
void stirrup
#

Only for G man to go "I was unarmed and unarmored" and the librarian goes "the Wolf is now VERY impressed"

#

He lost to KhaBhanda, what other time am I forgetting?

thorn bison
#

Ka’Bandha and Horus

void stirrup
#

Ah

#

That

#

Yes

thorn bison
#

He got so sad that he died when fighting Ka’bandha

#

That's pretty funny

#

Everyone has such convoluted ways of beating their opponents and then there's this fuckin daemon that was like: β€œyou are crybaby now”

#

death

void stirrup
#

Still don't get why they made up Kabandha when Angrrath existed already. And Skarbrand

#

Makes it feel like the nemesis of Sanguinius was "just another Bloodthirster"

drowsy urchin
#

I feel if it were someone already known, like Kabandha I would've reacted "oh it's just Kabandha again"

#

sorry meant to say Skarbrand

void stirrup
#

Seeeeee?

#

At least Angrrath is supposed to be the greatest Bloodthirster, and Skarbrand is Rage Incarnate.

#

Could have procced well with the Red Thirst, and later the Black Rage

fresh sun
#

Finally finished Xenos, not too bad overall. Looking forward to the book club meeting.

thorn bison
#

Hence the use of Ka’bandha

remote flare
#

What book should I start with to get into the lore?

tulip imp
#

Eisenhorn.

glass sparrow
#

really depends on what part of the lore you want to get into

tulip imp
#

Unless he's got a specific thing he wants to read from the perspective of, I am still gonna say Eisenhorn since it's the training wheels book.

remote flare
#

ty

void stirrup
#

@drowsy urchin so, yeah. I just reached the end of the book, || the breaking of the Lion Sword. The Lion called out for being a lying oath breaker by Guilliman, by Sanguinius, even by Curze. The Lion is officially the worst loyalist||

#

I really want the Lion back in 40k now. For the drama. Reality TV style

drowsy urchin
#

It would be pretty interesting

thorn bison
#

I can't believe people keep making terrible Morbius memes when I'm sitting here reading Ghoulslayer where they literally go to a place called Morbium

#

How have people not noticed?

teal igloo
#

Shhhh

#

Dont talk about the morbarium

void stirrup
#

Don't get terrible memes wrapped up in Gotrek. Let it stay pure. At least until we get Felix back

upbeat gyro
fluid yarrow
#

New Vaults Of Terra book releases on the 23rd pogryn

lime verge
#

Think the release of an Emperor mini will coincide with the last book? Or do you think they'll stat the dude for the new Horus hersy release?

void stirrup
#

I don't think they will do the Emperor. Hope they will, I will buy him in a heartbeat. But I don't expect it.

lime verge
#

I mean horus heresy has an ascended horus clocking in at 1000 points. And the custodes/armies of the imperium book for heresy comes out october... so... Β―_(ツ)_/Β―

void stirrup
#

For sure he won't be in that

#

If they do make rules for him it will be a year or two down the road

#

Final book out. The semi final book lands this year, the finale is next year. If Abnett can finish it on time

stray root
jaunty stratus
#

question about the opening of xenos, adressed to those that read all the eisenhorn books already ||that recorded scene was foreshadowing the events with book 2 right? Or am I mixing this up?||

magic sable
tall phoenix
#

They are pretty neat

#

also a good insight/look into life on terra

void stirrup
#

Feel like they get a little grim-dumb. The Custodes books cover the same timeframe and deal with the bigger picture, feel better written. The moment in one of the Vault books where they lift a guild Navigator from Dune wholesale is fun though.

magic sable
#

Finished the Fulgrim heresy book and that may be the most β€œmeh” book I’ve ever read

jaunty stratus
#

its too long, isn't it?

tall phoenix
#

Its pretty mediocre yeah

torpid seal
#

that's what she said

jaunty stratus
#

It's a fulgrim book after all. It was written that way with pure intent

thorn bison
jaunty stratus
#

Make it 200. One of those books, that get the better movie adaption, because the writers most likely cut out all the fillers in the script and it makes an entertaining movie

#

At least theoretically, because I'm not sure if this ever gets a movie

agile hedge
#

Ahhh

#

Ciaphas Cain books have too many quotable moments

tribal crater
void stirrup
#

Correction, it gets resources from everyone. Both series make a point of how CONSTANT traffic from orbit is, worldwide, of everything, from every corner of the Imperium

#

But Vaults then goes on to contradict it with shortages. Then contradict that with how efficient the administratum and Mechanicum are. Then security. Hooh. Boy.

#

The level of contradictions and stupidity for security are astounding. Of the Astronomicon. Of the Imperial Palace. The 100 companions exist. The book flat out ignores them.

#

Also, Terra is TERRA. The peak of humanity besides Mars. The Vault books make it out to be worse than Necromunda.

tall phoenix
#

Because it is a shithole?

#

There is no peak of humanity

#

its a dying world

#

Also that and like chaos/GSC cults among god knows how many horrible creatures run rampant in its surface

#

Unless you are near the Palace and its districts you are kinda screwed

void stirrup
#

Increasingly convinced you are just a troll Dil.

tall phoenix
#

HOW.

void stirrup
#

The imperial palace is there. A permanent garrison of Fists is there. The lords of Terra and their retinues. The Navigator houses. The established rogue trader houses. The inquisitorial headquarters. Two assassin temples. The trade guilds. The Administratum. And, point, Vaults takes place near and around the palace.

agile hedge
#

I mean reading Dark Imperium and Shadowthrone have made it obvious that Terra is riddled with those kind of issues and is as unsafe as other planets

tall phoenix
#

Yeah I'm just gonna zip it and let others say the obvious.

void stirrup
#

Shadow throne makes a point that it isn't, and the Custodes will even go out to deal with major threats

#

That is the actual box set.

agile hedge
#

Exactly, there are threats down there so bad even the custodes are having issues / dying

#

And if anything, the numbers of acolytes they slaughter and the fact that they controlled a decent bunch fo the sewers showed that, the cult had been there for a while and wasn't too far off from reaching critical mass aswell

#

And the fact that they'd let a GS cult grow to that size shows that, as always the Imperium is just a giant Golem with mud feet

toxic nebula
#

ye literally all the custodes die in shadowthrone

#

The ones involved in it that is

agile hedge
#

And Shadowthrone does goes out of this way to say that, even though the Custodes destroy this sect, there are other ones ready to take their place

#

I remember clearly the story since I literally proof-read Dilara's post when she put everything on Reddit

tribal crater
void stirrup
void stirrup
tribal crater
#

Except there's not enough to police everything. That's why they strictly guard the palace

void stirrup
#

No. See. This is part of grimderp and why other books outright contradict it.

tribal crater
void stirrup
#

The inquisition and custodes are completely fine with leveling entire sections of the city with ordnance.

#

This has been stated. More importantly, it has been DONE.

tribal crater
#

....

void stirrup
#

Also, keep glossing over how Vaults outright ignores the 100 companions exist.

tall phoenix
#

The Companions stick to the throne room and nowhere else

#

they wont leave their station

void stirrup
#

Yes...

#

Which is VERY relevant for Vaults

tall phoenix
#

Also like

#

why would they destroy half of Terra

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thats just impossible and wouldnt be done

void stirrup
#

There is a section with the throne room. A character sees the edge of the throne itself.

teal igloo
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terra is one of those collab writing hells where everything is clusterfucked 8 ways to sunday

tall phoenix
#

That too

tribal crater
#

Yeah the Inquisition doesn't "level entire sections of the city with ordinance"

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That's a Reddit meme