40k-book-club

[celest heron]

until they introduce the main characters

[wide mica]

and Animal Farm was banned in some schools in Georgia, Wisconsin, Florida and Connecticut

Again no universal ban, like it saw in the Soviet Union or China, but in certain schools

[final adder]

Just school boards being run by morons as usual

[celest heron]

I still want to find a good scan of the pre-70s anarchist cookbook

[final adder]

That'll get you on a watchlist lmfao

[celest heron]

Too late

[final adder]

Side's I heard the official army counterpart book to that actually has better recipes for explosives and such

[celest heron]

It does

[celest heron]

Marines*

[wide mica]

Even mentioning it has put everyone in this channel on a watchlist

[final adder]

Right, mb

[tall phoenix]

isnt that the david cage game

[tall phoenix]

same thing

[celest heron]

Nah army needs like 5 more iq points

[tall phoenix]

YEET

[celest heron]

Up to 70 from 65

[wide mica]

Na that was just Fahrenheit or Indigo Prophecy if you're American

[tall phoenix]

Eh same thing

[wide mica]

Plot of that game was weird but interesting, but then went completely off the rails

Like dude gets possessed to commit a murder and you're playing as both the guy who got possessed trying to cover the tracks of what happened while figuring out why and also the person investigating the murder. Pretty cool.

But then it's like "Oh yea you got possessed by a Mayan Shaman who is fighting against a Super AI and both of them are trying to find a Magic Fetus which can see the future"

[tall phoenix]

Literally average 40k book

[wide mica]

Genuinely would have been better if it was about trying to catch a supernatural serial killer who was possessing innocent people to commit murders rather than you know, all that.

[smoky bronze]

david cage is incredible at making games that are complete nonsense

[tall phoenix]

Remember guys, Detroit Become Human is 100% absolutely not a commentary on racism or civil rights, Cage said so himself!

[smoky bronze]

now androids to the back of the bus!

apolitically!

[tall phoenix]

god lmao

[smoky bronze]

it'd be one thing if there was ANY subtlety

did the writing team not tell him what the game was

[plush kindle]

David Cage, you did it again

[tall phoenix]

I mean you say this

[plush kindle]

Call him 007.
0 planned story beats
0 human connections
7 sexual assault scenes per woman

[tall phoenix]

people already have started the "clanker" trend and theres a big percentage of people that hate robots of any kind

shit like this would absolutely happen lol

the more human they look the more aggressive people also get tbh

[severe trail]

David cage is such a fucking hack lol

[tall phoenix]

"I don't make games for f*gs."

💀

[smoky bronze]

i'd never seen that it was a separate room with a window lmao

[wide mica]

https://klipy.com/gifs/yeah-about-that-paul

[severe trail]

https://tenor.com/view/heavy-jason-gif-9705314

[tall phoenix]

Same guy who also said:

"All the women in my games are whores."

[severe trail]

What ?????

[tall phoenix]

YEP LMAO

[severe trail]

I didn’t like him for being ass at writing

But now I have another reason to hate him

[tall phoenix]

You really need to look up some of the shit he said on interviews.

Guy is an absolute creep

[smoky bronze]

Remember when he put a nude model of elliot paige in a game without asking permission

[odd skiff]

That game was amazing homie don’t diss

[wide mica]

It was I still remember the first few missions being incredibly hype, trying to hide all the evidence and avoid getting caught then being the person to try and find anything you missed. It just went off the rails

[sonic walrus]

Ahh yes... Quantic Deam, the studio that brought us a classic example of the toxic workplace.

Ubisoft will hire him any day now.

[fickle scroll]

So I finished "watchers of the throne" and once again the assassins steal the show at the most unexpected moment. I really like these moments

[celest heron]

I think the breast milk thieves are competing for that title

[viral oasis]

Anyone read the one votann book?

[tall phoenix]

Its mid.

unfortunately

[viral oasis]

Tbh mids a bit harsh

I’d say it’s above average

[severe trail]

It’s mid, good worldbuilding

[tall phoenix]

Its really not.

The book just... does nothing.

[viral oasis]

That might have carried it for me

[tall phoenix]

Theres no memorable characters, epic moments, interesting lore explorations, any antagonists.

etc

[viral oasis]

But I really liked the brokhyr character

Seeing him triumph in the end was nice

And the khal upper cutting the ork warlord was especially cool

I also liked how they wrote an ironkins thought process.

Only thing that upset me was no meaningful interaction with other factions besides the imperium.

[tall phoenix]

Basically yeah. The book like i said just does barely anything interesting. I hope another author that can write these things tackles the Votann next.

this is their only novel rn and it really doesnt do them justice compared to rulebook lore.

[viral oasis]

It’s a okay opener

But a solid series would help

[tall phoenix]

deffo

[viral oasis]

Next on my chopping block is the Genestealer book

[tacit void]

It gave what the Votann needed though at least, some worldbuilding, Gav can certainly do that

[viral oasis]

I’ve read the first chapter, I’m hoping it’s not one of those books that books that tricks you on who the protag is.

[tall phoenix]

Day of Acension?

[viral oasis]

Yeah yeah that one

[tall phoenix]

ABSOLUTE CINEMA 🙌

[tacit void]

Oh hell yeah

[tall phoenix]

also theres no trick

its a GSC protag and admech secondary protag

pretty basic

[viral oasis]

Waiter waiter, more humanized xenos pls

[tall phoenix]

It just does the classic 40k thing of uhhh

opening is a completely unrelated character/or isnt relavent until later

which i wont spoil for now lol

but its a great book

[viral oasis]

Yeah they did the same thing with the big dakka

[tall phoenix]

Yeah authors do it a lot

its literally that person also dying half the time

so you go "What the hell was the point of that" lmao

tho what the kellermorph does in the opening is pretty connected later on

[viral oasis]

Tbh it was pretty funny how they did in the big dakka

The pseudo archon has a whole paragraph describing his cape

Just for it too be described as a “rag” next chapter

[tall phoenix]

https://klipy.com/gifs/me-atrapaste-es-cine

[viral oasis]

I also felt sorta bad for the drukhari that got sold of at the end

“Curling up into a ball” is a brutal description

[tall phoenix]

the book is great but does dark eldar extremely badly portrayal wise lol

they basically do nothing but bumrush and get killed, also half their weapons just dont work on Ufthak because Brooks the author is an ork fanboy

[viral oasis]

Could be worse.

[tall phoenix]

It is

[viral oasis]

Heard horror stories of gotto.

[tall phoenix]

I mean Gotto is just a horrible writer in general

its more annoying when its a purposeful handicap in an overall good book

[autumn willow]

He has terrible writing

[viral oasis]

At least he redeemed himself with the Corsair book seemingly.

It’s on my list.

[tall phoenix]

The corsair book is peak.

[viral oasis]

Plus trans succubus 👍

[autumn willow]

The only good thing I remember from him was the Omnis Arcanum Lore Battle Barge thats more Library than Battleship and Blood Ravens secret council of librarians

[tall phoenix]

Yeah Brooks does a lot of subtle queer representation in his books

its very nice

[autumn willow]

thats it from gotto

[tall phoenix]

the Corsair book also has a m/m main romance couple which is really good

[viral oasis]

I prefer the subtle approach compared to more front forward rep

[tall phoenix]

Thats what he does yeah.

its never dwelled upon, just mentioned

one of the best sci-fi tropes is just everyone being bisexual lol

[autumn willow]

Relic abaddoned the Blood Ravens secret masters or Council though

[viral oasis]

Bisexuality is an inevitability in sci fi apparently lmao

[tacit void]

Too many good options

You just go for it all

[tall phoenix]

we must blame how horny older sci-fi works are, it rocketed from there lol

[tall phoenix]

Also that, Captain Kirk moment

[viral oasis]

Does Lucius have a good book. His character fascinates me.

[tacit void]

Lucius: Faultless Blade is aight

According to my local ECnut

[viral oasis]

Heheh nut

[tacit void]

[tall phoenix]

Yeah Lucius' books are kinda old because mid-2000's but pretty good

[autumn willow]

isnt it the new fulgrim book?

I remember Lucius was mentioned?

[tacit void]

I didnt hear of him there afaik

But Lucius has got his own book with some wacky adventures, Drukhari killin, and my favourite Chief Apothecary

Thats all ill say

[autumn willow]

ah nvm

[tall phoenix]

Lucius has no appearance in the new Fulgrim book

just like the man himself who barely even appears in his own novel lol

[viral oasis]

Fulgrim is a cameo appearance

[tall phoenix]

even thats being generous lol

[viral oasis]

Does he Atleast say his iconic catch phrase

[tall phoenix]

Nope

he just appears, tells people off, then fucks off

the book is shit too so it doesnt even excuse him not appearing much in it lol

[viral oasis]

Lore accurate primarch lmao

All aura no substance

[quaint canopy]

There's a necron short story where LoV show up, attack their ship, fail, and then are like please take my precious ores, and let us leave. And the necron main char is just like, I don't need your dirt, we've been collecting super rare elements for 60 M years mf, die.

[viral oasis]

That was most possibly the lamest description I’ve ever heard

[severe trail]

lol

[quaint canopy]

It's a short story and kinda funny. Called One Million Years

[severe trail]

It’s a necron book tbf

[frigid osprey]

the lucius book is good

[mental cobalt]

opinion on ghost legion by mike brooks

is it better than lion: mid of the forest

[tall phoenix]

Its not even out yet is it lol

[mental cobalt]

i don't think so, just saw a post and figured everyone probably already read it except me

[tall phoenix]

Nah it was unrelated

but its by Mike Brooks so deffo gonna be peak

[mental cobalt]

idk about that one...

lion could have been better

maybe he makes it up in voidscarred

[tall phoenix]

Lion is great, Voidscarred is also good

appreciate peak or else

[mental cobalt]

[autumn willow]

Mike Brooks should Revive Alpha Legion Memes. Give us metal boxes

[tall phoenix]

I should bury you alive in a grave

[autumn willow]

[high willow]

Glad I’m not the only one🤣

The disconnect between the Lion in son of the forest and in the heresy is unreal, and it’s just hand-waved. He’s been out cold for 10k years. The last thing he did was destroy his own home planet to kill some traitors. Now he wakes up and just goes “welp, I was being a dick about all that, sorry. Yall been good? Ok, great. It’s a whole new me!” I struggle to imagine 30k Lion as the same person as 40k Lion.

[odd skiff]

He didn’t destroy caliban

Neither him nor Luther’s side did. The warp storm that opened up above Caliban ripped it apart.

[high willow]

Name checks out. DA at it again😉

[viral oasis]

whats that book where emperor childrens book were their fighting genestealer

[tacit void]

Lords of Excess?

[viral oasis]

Yep that one. I had trouble identifying it.

Got through chapter 3 of ascension day. A lot of conflicting morality going on.

I feel really really sorry for genestealers. More sorry than any explanation of their faction I’ve gotten

[smoky bronze]

Genestealers have a pretty raw deal lol

[tall phoenix]

I mean they literally live under ultra nazi germany

i dont think its really that conflicting lol

[smoky bronze]

live in the worst society in the galaxy
get divine revelations to overthrow it
throw planet into chaos
a bunch of bugs turn you into goop

[tall phoenix]

based af

[viral oasis]

thinking ard

turning to goop sounds preferable

[smoky bronze]

if you want to get melted in the imperium theres easier ways to do it

honestly theres like a 20% chance you end up melted no matter what

[tall phoenix]

yeah but downside is you cant be slaughtering fascists while doing it

and you dont always get melted

[smoky bronze]

do they ship off non purestrains?

i know the sedentary fleet has their cults fly ships home to turn to goop there

[tall phoenix]

Not really tbh.

[tall phoenix]

Entirely depends. The 9th and 10th codexes have some wild examples.

Like down to cults taking off of planets to fight alongside hiveships in void warfare before being "permitted" to leave as the tyranids entirely ignore them

[smoky bronze]

that makes sense tbh

at that point you may as well let them go do whatever and further the fleets goals they're already inconvenient to recycle

[tall phoenix]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Genestealer_Cult

Its a thing most people dont know about so i ended up making an entire section in the lexi for it with the "Interstellar Cults" bit

its likely stemming from GW realising its a bit lame that your cult just gets wiped out en-masse which can be pretty lame

(also one of the biggest points some people make on why GSC "suck" which i think is a bit of a stupid argument lol)

[smoky bronze]

i like the "GSC make every effort to get on the refugee ships" interpretation

it makes practical sense while keeping the cult going

[tall phoenix]

They DID always do that but their first codex mostly mentioned them sending smaller vectors of members. 9th and then 10th make a bigger case of larger contingents being sent off or forever being voidbound.

[autumn willow]

Look at the Cult of the Pauper Princes

[tall phoenix]

because yeah as you say them spreading en-masse makes a lot more sense.

[autumn willow]

they have their own empire

[smoky bronze]

if its just genestealers on the ship how do they navigate

[autumn willow]

But failed to take vigilus due to plot armor

[tall phoenix]

They have their own psykers so

[autumn willow]

The only Genestealer Cult who has their own Mini Empire or Consolidated territory so far

[tall phoenix]

Nah. The codexes say some GSC can hold entire systems for multiple centuries if a occurence happens for it, its not just the Pauper Princes

[smoky bronze]

cant normal psykers without the navigator genes not navigate? though i suppose if they're navigating by the hive mind instead of the astronomican it can all be different

[autumn willow]

I thought Pauper Princes is the Largest?

[tall phoenix]

thats Cult of the Four Armed Emperor

[autumn willow]

I remember they have more territory and own navy

ah

[autumn willow]

Too Risky

Navigators are needed because of their eye

Its used to move in the warp

[tall phoenix]

Its not really explored but we got examples of regular psykers being used to navigate ships sometimes in costly manner so i wouldnt really think too hard about it

they prob just infect a navigator

[smoky bronze]

fair

[autumn willow]

Normal Psykers rarely can help navigate the ship through the sea of souls

[tall phoenix]

not exactly the hardest thing when they have taken over entire systems or planets lol

[smoky bronze]

genestealers getting stolen by Enslavers is pretty funny

[autumn willow]

IIRC its like Navigators can see The Emperor’s light due to the Astronomican

I think very few none navigators can see his light while in the warp navigating a ship

Thats why Psykers barely hired to handle a ship

[tall phoenix]

Mephiston guides the Blood Angels flagship through the imperium nihilus, though he's hardly a regular psyker. An ultramarine librarian in Godblight comments that marine librarians are trained to do so in an emergency.

Xeno Psykers perform Navigatorial duties all the time. Eldar, Kroot, Nicassar, and even Orks. Its just more harder.

[autumn willow]

Orks dont need psykers though

[tall phoenix]

They do

[autumn willow]

they enter and fight and luckily got out

[tall phoenix]

[smoky bronze]

when they're not space hulking around they need weirdboyz

[autumn willow]

yeah

battlefield gothic armada books had detailed breakdowns

[smoky bronze]

but no one needs psykers for space hulks they're just doing their own thing

[autumn willow]

they kinda do

Some Black Legion Or Chaos Warband repurposed Space Hulks into cursed run down ships

Atleast out of desperation

[smoky bronze]

you can pilot at least some of them but they'll warp travel on their own from what we've seen

god knows why lol

space hulks are very mysterious theres not really a why or how to them

[autumn willow]

yeah

Unless your Abaddon

[smoky bronze]

like why would a bunch of ships combine like that in the first place??

[tall phoenix]

I mean

[smoky bronze]

often from completely different places and eras

[autumn willow]

He is the only telling people to jury rig space hulks

[tall phoenix]

why do you think gigantic trash islands form in the ocean?

the Warp is literally like that lol

[smoky bronze]

huh, warp gyres

[tall phoenix]

its current take stuff and meld stuff together

[smoky bronze]

i guess they do describe it as having tides and currents

[tall phoenix]

Indeed.

[autumn willow]

Space Hulk is like the ocean during wars

Where some wreck ships would merge or whats the term congregate

[tall phoenix]

The Warp is like the ocean

space hulks are just one aftermath of it

[autumn willow]

so a dark
tide

[smoky bronze]

it makes sense that there would be areas in the warp where currents converge and flotsam bashes into each other

[tall phoenix]

that....

that has been the case for like 30 years

the Warp is constantly described as such lmao

[smoky bronze]

and then i guess the warp engines triggering randomly is a fine reason for them to pop in and out of the warp

[tall phoenix]

THATS LITERALLY ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE

[smoky bronze]

though they're often a little uh, large

[tall phoenix]

[smoky bronze]

like how does any one warp drive propel a hulk big enough to have an atmosphere

someone is out there jury rigging them together...

vashtorr prank...

[tall phoenix]

theres nothing jury rigging them

hulks form naturally

again, literal trash islands

the ones that are rigged are very rare and take massive effort to do so, thats what Arks of Omens were

and naturally made space hulks sometimes even dwarf those

[autumn willow]

I mean the only time Jury Rigging on a large scale during Battlefleet gothic

[smoky bronze]

what im talking about is wouldnt an unrigged hulk need to be entering the warp on the power of a single randomly activating drive

[tall phoenix]

Im aware

[smoky bronze]

they wouldnt be in sync otherwise

[tall phoenix]

I mean yes?

then they modify it?

💀

like, its space magic

its not that deep

[autumn willow]

They drive yes

[smoky bronze]

it happens with unmodified ones though!

[tall phoenix]

oh my god man

[smoky bronze]

they just do it!

[tall phoenix]

ITS SPACE MAGIC

WHO CARES

[smoky bronze]

yeah fair whatever

[autumn willow]

You got two engines, Plasma and Warp

[tall phoenix]

this aint the setting to be neil degrasse tysoning over

[autumn willow]

Plasma for none warp movements

Warp Engines or Drive when moving to hell

[smoky bronze]

i was just curious how a warp engine was propelling a ship 100x the one it was built for im a curious guy

[autumn willow]

Usually The Warp Ignores traditonal physics

Sometimes engines make you faster or slows you down

Plasma Engines are used when traditionally exploring space

[smoky bronze]

its making the big hole i was concerned with, but yeah, space magic whatever

[tall phoenix]

40k cannot do proper physics because the authors knowledge of the subjects come from wikipedia reading

[autumn willow]

Warp usually opens the portal to hell via Navigators or special button

[odd skiff]

I mean you could just quickly check. It was the daemon and the warp storm that destroyed caliban. If the lion wanted to destroy caliban then he wouldn’t have descended to the surface and then blown it up.

40K lion really isn’t much different to 30K lion. Most bad opinions of him come from perspectives of someone else’s book and usually not without reason. Like when leman Russ attacked a rebel ship and blew it up and then got surrounded by the Dark Angels and got talked to like shit by the lion because 10 squads of his sons were on the ship when Russ blew it up.

[snow siren]

Weirdly, I thought Russ’ book gave a great showing of the Lion

It really cemented how much Wraight hates Russ, and whilst his Wolves are good, his anti-Russ bias really shows through

He makes all primarchs balanced except Russ, who he makes a loser

[odd skiff]

I didn’t think Russ was a loser, I thought it was a good showing that even Primarchs make mistakes and have issues. I didn’t like Russ before, Russ’ book made me like him. Especially this part showing Russ more than anyone grieved for the lion.

[snow siren]

Lion beats him twice in the one fight

It’s also believed Wraight hadn’t read Prospero Burns when he wrote Wolf King

(apparently, the audio book version was abridged and didn’t include the message Russ sent through Hawser, so when I raised how you could read that message and come away with Russ hated Magnus, someone actually asked him and apparently he didn’t know what they were talking about)

[odd skiff]

People always bring up that the lion was a cvnt and the space wolf dark angel beef was his fault for stealing lemans kill but they don’t mention that the lion waited and waited for Russ whilst the planet was still fighting back and only when the dark angels could wait no longer the lion went in and killed their leader.

[snow siren]

Exactly my point!

Russ is the problem, right the way throughout his primarch book

And there’s no real reason for Russ to want the kill

I feel like there’s a dropped plot line about the politics behind the scenes, maybe a lot watching to see if the Wolves can expand past chasing down oath breakers and this is Russ’ attempt to grow the legion past E’s original intention

And Lion scuppers that because he gets the kill. Cool, adds depth to both, hints at a deeper political background for the Primarchs, but no. No Russ is just a tool.

And lion comes across fantastically whereas Russ is a dumbass

[tall phoenix]

Russ is a prime example of a primarch whos fans largely deflect any criticism because he has "hype and aura moments" lol

Same guy who literally just didnt kill Horus because uhhhh

https://klipy.com/gifs/plot-thickens-3

[snow siren]

Exactly the problem

And it’s wholly the authors just couldn’t be arsed

[tall phoenix]

Yeah thats 30k in a nutshell

"Hey so I wrote this character like this!"

"Oh you wrote him like that? Im gonna ignore that and write him like this"

I hate hate hate people who excuse this shit in the fandom

saying it makes complete sense when it just doesnt lol

[odd skiff]

Their fight was pretty epic though

[tall phoenix]

Another MCU primarch fight

[odd skiff]

I LOVE my Lion El’Jonson slop

[tall phoenix]

[odd skiff]

Give me more First Legion slop

[tall phoenix]

DONT DO IT

[odd skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/taco-feed-me-feed-me-more-give-me-food-rage-gif-15715969

[autumn willow]

we thank you cousins for the gifts when you save us on Kronus

[odd skiff]

Brothers you mean

https://tenor.com/view/anton-chigurh-no-country-for-old-men-ok-oops-javier-bardem-gif-10579690

We all know Lion is your papa

[autumn willow]

Roboute because its due to the gifts but depends if Lion give us bling too

[tall phoenix]

Yeah because hes a straight villain

40k as at its best with them lol

Yeah its also hard to go askew from Lorgar as a character

unlike some moron like Morty

Morty is hilarious tbh

hes like a new primarch in every book

"MUAHAHA GAROU, IM GONNA INFECT YOU AND HAVE YOU AS MY ZOMBIE PUPPET BECAUSE IM EVIL"

falls for the hero lettign him stab him so they can pull themselves forward and impale his neck trick

[autumn willow]

TFW lords of silence have a better plot line

[tacit void]

Wraight gets it

[autumn willow]

Nurgling being big doggos was wholesome

especially when one of the characters headpats one during a meeting

[snow siren]

This is my beef with Wraight’s Russ

Wraight is one of the best writers

But fuck does he hate Russ

[tacit void]

Tfw when i get witchified (witchery not bad now)

[tacit void]

I didnt read his SW stuff

What happened

[snow siren]

His SW stuff (Blood of Asaheim, Stormcaller, the third one that’s alright but not great), is pretty good

It’s his HH Russ stuff that is really well written, which makes the issues with Russ intentional

[tacit void]

The Primarch book?

[odd skiff]

Space wolves fuck up, Dark Angels save the day, space wolves rage quit and leman attacks lion and loses.

[tacit void]

Oh this story

Dulan was ir

[odd skiff]

Yes

[tacit void]

Yeah i heard the gist of it

And it does make russ sound like a dumbass

[odd skiff]

“Noooo lion you can’t steal my kill” “we waited for you for hours, cope”

[snow siren]

That and Wolf King

In both Russ is just ridiculous

[tacit void]

Tbh i didnt get that, isnt russ supposed to be a man faking beasthood and the lion a beast faking humanity

[snow siren]

Whereas say, Aurelian

Lorgar psychically ragdolls Magnus, but Magnus has an out for why it happened at least (he didn’t know anyone could psychically interact with his astral projection)

[snow siren]

Lion’s view I think

A bit like how the Night Lords also get a snippy comment about how they murder the enemy rather than just straight kill them

[tacit void]

Magnus says as much You have changed...

He didnt see it coming

[tacit void]

Ah i see

[odd skiff]

That’s just a fanon saying

“One is an animal pretending to be a Knight and one is a Knight pretending to be an animal”

[snow siren]

Exactly

There’s a lot of unbalanced nonsense (Lion vs Curze in that last fight, when the others had been fairly balanced) that’re definitely due to author bias

But then there’s some authors who write cool stuff where it shows they’re all pretty hardcore,

[odd skiff]

Clearly from a space wolf fan since leman is the knight pretending to be an animal in the saying

[tacit void]

Oh i know its not real in the setting i mean the contrast, Leman is a more civilised people person than the Lion who is more of a forest man but their perceptions are reversed

[odd skiff]

Basically

[tacit void]

I see the bias now that you put it that way

[odd skiff]

The lion part is kind of (emphasis on kind of) shown in how Luther found him, the lion stalked them through the Forrest and was standing behind them when they finally saw him and even though he did not speak, there was a clear intelligence and predator instinct in his eyes.

[tacit void]

Mmm i see, by forest man do i mean intelligent predator btw not like an unga bonga caveman

[snow siren]

Even then

Russ was literally raised by Wolves on a semi-warp present hell world, he’d be just as much a bestial predator as Lion

[odd skiff]

Savage weapons when Curze and lion fight the first time Curze is strangling the lion and nearly killed him but then in Prince of crows you find out lion put Curze in a coma, decimated his fleet and killed half his high command in that same first fight .

So yes author bias

[snow siren]

But then the next fight, Curze captures a third of the Invincible Reason and Lion is too…scared is the wrong word so cautious to send his men in, only going solo because he knows the Astartes will die (alt, Lion captured Curze, so I’d put that as a draw personally)

The fourth fight has Lion get a building collapsed on him

Then the fifth has Lion win because he’s cool

[tacit void]

I admit i dont know jack all, but ive heard leman is more "civilised" and "sociable" than the lion, he is a lethal predator but he was also a king who ruled, whereas the Lion had just conquered the planet as the Master of the Order when the Emperor came afaik

[odd skiff]

Supreme Grand Master was basically just a fancy way of saying King of caliban tbh

[tacit void]

Fair enough

[odd skiff]

The different knights of caliban orders ruled Caliban and the order ruled the knights of caliban and supreme grand master rules the order.

[snow siren]

Somehow I’m even more confused

[mystic grotto]

groups of knights ruled Caliban. the order governed the groups of knights. The supreme grand master rules the order

[odd skiff]

Caliban was ruled by the knight orders, the lions order called just “The Order” rose to power over them all, the order merged all the orders into the order, by governing structure from top to bottom it went

Lion
Luther
The Order
The Knights of Caliban
The People of Caliban.

If this makes more sense

[mystic grotto]

The legacy of Caliban series shows a lil bit about the command structure too

but that's modern 40k, so it's azrael

[tacit void]

The Order was the Covenant of Caliban by the time the Lion got done, ahh makes sense to me now

[odd skiff]

Descent of Angels shows the orders founding and rise to power above all the other orders and then shows the merging of the orders under the lion as Supreme Grand Master.

[fickle scroll]

Does anyone know who Cypher is?

[tall phoenix]

Left in the air.

[smoky bronze]

No, might not even be the same guy after all this time

[fickle scroll]

Ah okay, that's fair

[odd skiff]

Which one?

I assume you mean 4th Cypher. I personally believe it is 2nd Cypher The knight of lupus and he somehow survived his duel with 3rd Cypher Zahariel.

But it could also still be Zahariel or the last candidate really is Corswain

I’d hazard a guess that Zahariel became Lohoc and 4th Cypher is the knight of lupus or Corswain.

I only really think that 4th could be 2nd cypher again because 4ths armour and weapons are the exact same as 2nds, despite apparently being killed by Zahariel who became 3rd cypher but never took 2nds weapons or armour.

Corswain is only really a candidate because the last time him or Zahariel were confirmed seen was in their duel at the fall of caliban, but again if Corswain defeated Zahariel and by the traditions of Caliban became Lord Cypher, why does the cypher today have the exact armour and weapons of 2nd cypher.

2nd Cypher/The Knight of Lupus official art
3rd Cypher/Zahariel official art
Corswain official art
40Ks Cypher official minis

Long story short, highly likely 40K cypher is 2nd cypher/the knight of lupus again and he somehow survived his fight with Zahriel

[quaint canopy]

But did the knight of Lupus art come before the miniature or after? Which inspired which?

[odd skiff]

After

Well

His original mini was first

Then the art of the knight of lupus

And then his new mini

All armour and weapons are the same in all three

But yet Zahariels art came out before the cypher mini and then his new art which went on the same style as his first art came out after the cypher mini.

But I’ve also seen official cypher art pre the mini

Even this one of 40K cypher is the same as the art for the knight of lupus

This is Zahariel and Nemiel and as said before, Zahariel did not take the 2nd cyphers weapons or armour after apparently killing him

Another thing of note

Zahariel and Corswain have their big duel at the fall of caliban whilst Luther and Lion are ages away having their duel. Luther noted he never saw who won and when lion and Luther wounded eachother and lion got dragged away by the watchers and then the loyalist dark angels showed up and arrested Luther literally moments later, lions sword had been taken by cypher. If Corswain defeated Zahariel and made it over to take lions sword why didn’t he show himself to his brothers? And if Zahariel won, how did he get from there to the lion and Luther’s duel, get the sword and escape within moments before the Loyal DA showed up and why didn’t he help Luther? It doesn’t make sense, the lion was dragged away and moments later his loyalists turn up and seize Luther, it’s almost like whoever took the sword (40K cypher) was in the shadows of the lion and Luther’s duel and swooped in and took the sword the moment lion got dragged away.

[fickle scroll]

The one from the Cypher book

[odd skiff]

IMO it’s the Cypher from before Zahariel got Cypher, I think he somehow survived his death at the hands of Zahariel before Zahariel became the 3rd Lord Cypher and I think 2nd Cypher is back as 40K book Cypher.

But I done a full rant above

[fickle scroll]

Yeah I noticed😂

[odd skiff]

Lord Cypher is a complicated subject with it being a single person rank passed from Dark Angel to Dark Angel either by the supreme grand masters decree or by defeating the previous cypher in a duel💀

But if Zahariel didn’t actually kill the 2nd cypher and it wasn’t passed on by the SGMs decree then 2nd cypher is still the legitimate cypher. If it actually is him again.

[fickle scroll]

Wouldnt his weapons of choice be a give away?

[odd skiff]

Well yes

Dual pistols one being bolt and one being plasma is quite a unique combo I’ve only seen on the knight of lupus and new cypher.

1st cypher had a old Calibanite bolt pistol an sword

2nd cypher had dual pistols, one plasma and one bolt

Zahariel had a sword an bolt pistol

New cypher has dual pistols, one bolt and one plasma. And obviously, the lions sword.

Would be cool to see the 1st cyphers last ride, considering we never saw him die, we only saw he was getting too old and asked for the lions permission to go out hunting the beasts one last time.

[fickle scroll]

well whoever it may be, they really know how to play chess. In that book he outplayed so many factions

[odd skiff]

Knight of lupus outplayed the lion, Luther, dark angels

So makes sense it’s him again

[fickle scroll]

dayum, 4d chess

[fringe thorn]

Arrived today

[mental cobalt]

there is too much DA in here 🤮

[mental cobalt]

so new cypher is zahariel

[odd skiff]

New cypher is the cypher before Zahariel imo

[fickle scroll]

Zahariel is also a sorcerer, but I didn't see any magic

[snow siren]

I quite liked these

Not a huge fan of the end, but I liked these rest

[mental wren]

Welp, I found the channel I'll be lurking in between bouts of purging heretics, though the Black Library content I like tends to be the opposite of most, haha

[fickle scroll]

I felt like the end was too open, I can't remember how it ends, but I've been waiting for a sequel. Guess I missed smth

[mental wren]

The next on my to be read list is Tomb World. I'd liked the last BL novel I'd read from Jonathan D. Beer, Dominion Genesis, so I'm excited.

My last BL read was Archmagos, which I did like despite my mixed feelings on Cawl in general. My biggest criticism of the novel isn't really the author's fault, since I'm fairly certain they were told to include all the different factions in the novel.

Oh, and the title of the novel itself. There's a completely unrelated, non-Cawl series of AdMech novels — Sktarius and Tech Priest by Rob Sanders — and based on the title, you'd think that it's a follow-up, but it is not related at all, outside of them all being AdMech novels.

I have actual salient thoughts about the novel, but I don't want to spoil much. There were some very interesting ideas thrown out.

[tall phoenix]

Tomb World is a very fun read

i love my terrorist necrons 🙏

[snow siren]

There’s 3, the ending of the third I don’t love

That is quite definitely closed

[tall phoenix]

Archmagos is such a weird book

the entire blackhole plot just being wrapped up only to rush to the defense of that not-space wolves chapter also just felt really clunky

especially since the entirety of Book 2 was a setup for this novel lol

[mellow knot]

Welcome, Little Cephalopod

[forest spruce]

Dilara keeps trying to get me to continue them.

[viral oasis]

Not really storytelling related but what’s with that weird era in the 2000s where all space marine books had one particular artstyle

The ones with the white backgrounds and the space marine looking semi realistic

I think it was non Sullivan who did most of those

[snow siren]

They’re worth it like, the first two are really good

The third is decent but I just didn’t love how it ended

[mellow knot]

They were a specific series - Space Marine Battles and yes, Jon Sullivan did the artwork.

[viral oasis]

I guess it was a large series

Cause there were several with similar styles

[mellow knot]

Yep, there were quite a lot of them

They were fun. Bolter porn pick-ups that didn’t try to be mighty or highbrow

[tall phoenix]

They were also just very experimental

some are literally just

marines go to place

everyone blows up and dies

or

kills generic evil antagonist

[mellow knot]

Most of them were based on specific lore points or, in at least one case that I know of, a single sentence in a codex.

[tall phoenix]

Absolutely cooked

[mellow knot]

Author: Here is a cool sentence!

Editor: Great, now make it a 100k book.

Literally word for word what happened

[tall phoenix]

yeah uh explains why most of them were just bland as hell

[mellow knot]

It was fun making the transition from sentence to story

[mental cobalt]

most DA books

[odd skiff]

Absolute nonsense

DA books carry warhammer

[drowsy urchin]

[odd skiff]

https://tenor.com/view/cope-mald-warhammer-40k-gangnam-style-space-marine-gif-8246058212714888499

[hearty niche]

My favorite part of Fall of Cadia was when John Cadia said “it’s Cadianing time” and proceeded to Cadia all over the heretics

[autumn willow]

Meanwhile in the Astroids of Cadia, Remnants of the planet is alive somehow and Creeds Daugther was shocked that she and her troops can breath in space

[hearty niche]

Absolute 🖐️ Cadia 🖐️

[solemn jewel]

Just started Fulgrim, I hope nothing bad happens

[tall phoenix]

Spoilers; he falls to chaos

[autumn willow]

He is a DLC unit for the upcomming Total War 40k

its spoils his story from CA

[odd skiff]

They have a murder/sex orgy

[fringe thorn]

in that order

[mystic grotto]

Perfectly ordered

as all Emperor's Children are

[mental wren]

I'll ask on here in case someone might know: does anyone recall the name / anthology featuring a short story that showed the Imperium pulling out of a world after they'd extracted all its resources?

[shy lark]

The Rose at War?

[mental wren]

It wouldn't have been a Sisters of Battle story

I do love all of the Danie Ware SoB content and recommend them to anyone

I'm pretty sure the one I'm thinking of was Guard-focused

[shy lark]

Maybe the Planetkill anthology then, I haven't read that one

[mental wren]

Ohhhhhhh yes thank you

I'm pretty sure Mortal Fuel in that anthology is the one

[tall phoenix]

Yeah it is

tho the planetary exodus is like the intro of the story

after that its a boring generic navy one

[rough inlet]

just finished the space shark trilogy

i was wondering if the ciaphas cain series is any good cause im thinking about staring that next

[mental wren]

I'm a big fan. The tone is typically a lot lighter than almost any other 40K content, though I've had a friend bounce off of them at the style

[shy lark]

Just don't read them one after another

imo

[rough inlet]

which book is the best out of the series

[shy lark]

Possibly the first one for me, or whichever Death or Glory was

I'd personally just read them between other stuff, going back to it at times and start with the first one and go along

[mental wren]

I can second that approach!

[mental wren]

I never realized there was a follow-up novel. I'd just read the anthology, haha

[tall phoenix]

Yeah i bought the anthology thinking the Short was gonna be entirely that then i realised its just the opener

then its jus ta generic dark eldar/navy story 💀

[mental wren]

I tend to forget there's a second part, haha. The opening was the section that stuck with me all these years

[tall phoenix]

yeah same lol

[final adder]

Any good astra militarum novels out there about the kasrkin?

[snow siren]

Malleus has them feature and they’re pretty badass

[final adder]

I'll check it out, ty

[tall phoenix]

Kasrkin got like 1 core novel and its absolutely terrible

also got universally panned 💀

[autumn willow]

Malleus for like 1 chapter. The Kasrkin book was just bad

I think theres the Only War lore pages

[tall phoenix]

just read the new Scion book but imagine them as Kasrkins tbh

[snow siren]

And boy do they rule in that chapter

[autumn willow]

yeah

[fickle scroll]

yeah the scion books were interesting, mostly cause you have a specops team that is going rogue in a way

[wide mica]

Ye just read this

and this

They've got Scions, which are cooler than Kasrkin

[quaint canopy]

What's that behind the commissar? An ogryn in a super creepy get up?

[tacit void]

A Tempestus Scion

[quaint canopy]

Looks well fed around the waste 😆

[tacit void]

Probably got all the crazy ass gear get up

[wide mica]

That's Captain Andren Fel of the Dusk Hounds, the Scions of the Antari Rifles

and he's not fat, Raine is just a skinny bitch

It's how she dodges all the heresy

[fickle scroll]

and IED

[tacit void]

Omg im literally raine

[fickle scroll]

he looks like the bad batch

https://giphy.com/gifs/star-wars-the-bad-batch-KAhg5CLij0jvYu0Vde

[final adder]

Damn 😭 my poor boys

[tall phoenix]

yeah its VERY not good lol

you can google some reddit threads that explains the plot and its oof

[chrome badge]

just need to gush over this because i absolutely love this book

[wide mica]

Genuine peak

[grim gate]

Are there any good Dark Angels books that aren't about The Fallen

[grim gate]

I know I'm probably asking for a pizza with no cheese but I wonder if Dark Angels get to have any other plot lines than "the fallen"

[shy lark]

There's some but all I can remember right now is Pandorax and Eye of Ezekiel unless I'm misremembering on the latter one

[odd skiff]

Descent of Angels
Call of the lion
Lion El:Jonson: Lord of The First
Fallen Angels (misleading name)
Savage weapons
Prince of crows
The lion
By the lions command
Master of The First (Goated)
The Long night
Angels of Caliban

Dreadwing

[tall phoenix]

I love the 30k recommendations as the Fallen dont even exist in them yet

Okay I checked literally all of these are Horus Heresy novels bruh 😭

we are COOKED

[odd skiff]

Well obviously all of 30K is Horus heresy

Leman Russ primarch book is a good dark angels one too

[tall phoenix]

I was making sure that maybe there was some actual 40k books in here

[odd skiff]

Listen bro

This is 40K

There’s no DA books the fallen aren’t in

Horus heresy is your only option

And half of them are how the fallen happened💀

[tall phoenix]

[odd skiff]

Lazarus book is a good one where he kind of mocks the fallen

And finds all that his brothers do stupid

[potent warren]

I unironically might enjoy the DA if every single book wasn't a fallen plotline ngl

Its like, a genuine blight upon them

[tall phoenix]

Its one case where you go in thinking people are exaggerating then see that indeed EVERY. SINGLE dark angel book is a fucking fallen plotline

lmao

[odd skiff]

30K DA books are very good

If you don’t know the fallen storyline from 40K you wouldn’t really notice the signs

Like

[autumn willow]

Wait till dawn of war iv its the fallen

[odd skiff]

30K books are more focused on just dark angels, the lion, the heresy etc etc normal stuff, if you don’t know the fallen from 40K you won’t notice but if you do it’s like when you watch a movie a second time and you see all different clues n shit you didn’t see the first time

[odd skiff]

Doubt it

The hunt for the fallen has been sidelined by the lion and for the most part banned, unofficially of course.

So we should start to see more DA books and less DA fallen books

[potent warren]

regrettably i do

[tall phoenix]

tbh

"the signs"

book named FALLEN ANGELS

😭

[odd skiff]

To be fair only half of that book has Luther and Caliban in it

And they haven’t fallen yet

[tall phoenix]

yet

https://klipy.com/gifs/doakes-bar

[grim gate]

Dangles have my favorite look of any of the og chapters but I just hear "the fallen the fallen the fallen the fallen" and i wonder if black library has any other ideas

[odd skiff]

And most of the parts they are in is investigating and doing battle with the daemon of caliban that lurks under the planets crust.

And the watchers in the dark appearing periodically to stare down Zahariel menacingly

[tall phoenix]

yeah the DA like i said are one chapter where the memes are COMPLETELY correct.

like EVERY SINGLE THING they do is about the Fallen

Vraks? Fallen

Vigilus? Fallen

Terra? Fallen

Indomitus Crusade? Still Fallen

fuck me lmao

[odd skiff]

I hope with the lion back they can go back to just being Arthurian Knights in space

Descent of Angels ? Absolute peak Arthurian knightism

The entire thramas crusade was just Nightlord vs Dark Angel peak

[forest spruce]

The fallen are a lessen on the sucken cost fallacy

If they just admitted "yeah some of us went traitor we arnt sure where they went but we'll hunt them down" instead of hiding it for 10k years

Other legions had Marines declare traitor the dark angels arnt the only ones

[grim gate]

Honestly it's the fact fallen still exist after 10 000 years and the Dangles STILL treat them like they're the greatest threat to the Imperium

[drowsy urchin]

I'm glad that Lion: Son of the Forest has finally made the Fallen storylines interesting, if it were ever to continue it

[tacit void]

Dangles are just scared

They have been these perfect loyalists, the 1st Legion

The Fallen are anathema to that

iirc Azrael reckoned Guilliman was going to kill them all over the Fallen

[grim gate]

Yeah but apparently according to the writers it's pretty much the ONLY thing they do

[tacit void]

Yeah id admit its a little too much atp

They should have stories without the Fallen

[grim gate]

Maybe one that's about how they apparently have some real freaky tech stored away and like the Admech or T'au wanna research it

[tacit void]

Better yet

If any Excindio still exist

One escapes containment

[autumn willow]

We never have any POV with Cypher

[tacit void]

Cypher: Lord of the Fallen

Its good

[autumn willow]

ah nvm

I forgot that

[odd skiff]

It was their sheer numbers and the fact that not all of them have emerged from the warp yet.

There was 30 thousand Dark Angels on caliban before the Lion, Corswain and the Dark Angels fleet arrived

Roughly 5000 of those knew something was going on with Luther and plotted a coup to reinstall legion protocols and a new Legion Master until they could make contact with the lion or the emperor and tell them everything they’ve saw.
Luther’s angels found this out and ambushed, killed and captured them. So takes the number to 25 thousand ish.

We now know that once the DA fleet arrived and descended to the surface to fight Luther’s forces, the lions DA got dragged into the warp too and they got mistaken as fallen and had to go renegade. So really if you include the loyalists, the number could be closer to 40 thousand.

And whilst most fallen work in squads and are spread out, 25-40 thousand is still a major force especially after the heresy when a lot of loyalist and traitor legions didn’t even number this anymore.

A smaller part of why they obsess so much could probably be put down to the fact that it was DreadBringer Redloss who became the Legion master since he was the highest rank in orbit when caliban blew up and he founded the second foundings and declared their total mission as vengeance. Redloss was already one of the most vicious and destructive of the Dark Angels, being the commander of the Dreadwing and all.

[fickle scroll]

25 to 40k of full fledged marines????

[tacit void]

Luther and Astelan were running one of the best recruitment joints at Caliban

[quaint canopy]

Oh boy, that meeting between him and Azrael 😂

[odd skiff]

Lazarus and azrael?

[odd skiff]

In Master of the First the number of full space marines on caliban under Luther’s command were numbered at 30 thousand

The lion had roughly an equal force when he arrived back to caliban but cut out a few thousand due to probable casualties on both sides I would estimate the amount of dark angels pulled into the warp to be between 30-45 or even 50 thousand.

Luther’s and lions but unfortunately the dark angels in orbit who rebuilt the chapter assumed all who emerged from the warp to be fallen and hunted them all hence why we have loyalist fallen, renegade fallen and chaos fallen.

[drowsy stone]

What do I read after prospero burns

[odd skiff]

The crimson king

[drowsy stone]

Dang that far?

Prospero burns is book 15, crimson king is 40 something

[tall phoenix]

Most HH books are barely connected to each other and all tell loosely related, unrelated or plots that go nowhere

you can skip about 80% of the series and miss nothing

so that book jump isnt really that important to Crimson King

[drowsy stone]

Ok what would you suggest for the really good one's I have barebones list and crimson king is on that list but later on

[tall phoenix]

Well good for you dear fan GW made a list just for that

hold on

[drowsy stone]

Okie thank you

[tall phoenix]

This would be my personal picks before you get to Siege of Terra

(the order is left to right each row lol)

[drowsy stone]

Ah thank you, I guess uhh know no fear is next for me but I might dip into the outcast dead cause it interests me

[tall phoenix]

Yeah Outcast Dead is neat

Know No Fear is very peak

[drowsy stone]

Might skip betrayer cause angron is kinda ehhhh

[tall phoenix]

na hdont

Betrayer is one of THE best HH novels

it might legit make you love angron

[drowsy stone]

Okie then I will give it a shot

[tall phoenix]

and even if you dont, the other parts are still great

yeah trust me

like im not a huge HH fan and even I loved it + know of its universal praise lol

[drowsy stone]

Okay then I will give it a shot

Most praise Ive heard of the whole saga siege of terra included has been saturnine

Which was great I agree with the praise

This is my second read through trying to cover more bases than just the basic few and SoT

[odd skiff]

In chronological order of space wolves and thousand sons timeline crimson king is after prospero burns

[drowsy stone]

Ah makes sense, I dont mind the time skips and flashbacks tho since it's cool seeing some stuff revisited from different perspectives

[tall phoenix]

its uhhh

Saturnine and Echoes of Eternity

those are THE most universally praised ones

[odd skiff]

Dark Angels storyline is god tier HH peak.

[final adder]

Guilliman going "FUCK IT WE BALL" the novel

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-12869046600151364058

Turning word bearers into paste in space

[tacit void]

The First Heretic -> Aurelian -> Know No Fear -> (optionally: Mark of Calth) -> Betrayer

Can't go wrong this way

[tacit void]

Id take 150k for 50k

[sonic walrus]

https://tenor.com/view/roboute-guilliman-40k-dr-livsey-gif-27350249

[vale wren]

Just finished Archmagos

When the Iron Warrior says something so warp-phobic you gotta hit them with that Vashtorr stare

[odd skiff]

Homeboy just don’t like demons

It’s not racist

He has warp affiliated friends

[forest spruce]

Vashtoor just j chillin is gold

[muted cloak]

Only good demons are demon engines

[autumn willow]

no, Nurglings

The only good demons when grandfather give us adorable pets

[muted cloak]

Don't diss my boys forgefiend and decimator

[tacit void]

99% of Good Daemons are Daemon Engines and Daemon Possessed Weapons

Then we have a few good buddies like Pink Horrors and Kairos

[elfin raft]

whats that book again where the inquisitor lowk folds for the callidus assassin who only has genestealer mode

[violet sable]

Inquisitor

by Ian Watson

[last goblet]

What a weird thing to photoshop

[snow siren]

I should really give that another go

I was 13 when I got it and the mental assault scene at the start really put me off

[drowsy urchin]

It is not very well regarded book

[tall phoenix]

Its only downside is its "weird" but i think thats the fun of it lol

40k books play shit way too safely

[fickle scroll]

the best asssassin book has to be Kingslayer

it might also be the only assassin book

[drowsy urchin]

Nemesis also exists which is fine

[tall phoenix]

theres a novella but its nowhere good as Kingmaker

one of my fav 40k books ever

[autumn willow]

there are 2 and IIRC a Short story but it was in a rulebook?

I remember the Assassination squad box had a short story inside too

[snow siren]

Terrible assassin book

A pretty decent crime novel hidden inside though

[drowsy urchin]

Why is it a terrible assassin book

maybe because the assassins do pretty little assassination? Though the whole reason for the book is that the assassins are sent out to do a singular impossible task

[tall phoenix]

Said task everyone reading the book knows they'll also fail at

makes for a questionably gripping but very lame premise

[drowsy urchin]

I don't think a doomed quest is inherently a lame premise

[tall phoenix]

It is when you consider the scope tbh

a doomed quest is better when you sometimes dont know its outcome

"assassinating horus" one of the most plot armored beings in the entire HH setting is very mid

[drowsy urchin]

I mean sure but just knowing how it will end doesn't make it bad

Like is Rogue One bad because you know the rebels will get the message out but will die doing so?

[tall phoenix]

I mean it does because the execution was lame. You giving Rogue One is a terrible example because the storytelling in that is almost flawless in comparison

The prior point is also why a lot of people find Nemesis meddling, because the book is just "Well i guess it was okay"

[drowsy urchin]

As I said it was "fine" not that it was amazing or even great. I was asking why it was terrible

[tall phoenix]

Because it takes like half the book to get where its going with not really interesting characters and once we get the ball rolling the book is basically over already.

Something Kingmaker does similiarly but in a much better light because it just has a better premise and characters.

[snow siren]

Because it was terribly written

It reads more like a heist novel than anything in particular

I also felt the sibling relationship was forced

But the detective novel was great

[drowsy urchin]

sure these are fine points

[tall phoenix]

Also the author was too busy gooning over the female assassins

[drowsy urchin]

whatever Dilara was saying wasn't

[tall phoenix]

[tall phoenix]

Deffo was.

sorry buddy

Its basically just another nothing-filler HH book

[drowsy urchin]

You can't always just "nu uh" yourself through every argument you have

[tall phoenix]

Thats literally what everyone here does bruh

[drowsy urchin]

it's fine to concede sometimes

[tall phoenix]

I mean no?

conceding is for nerds

[merry orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/all-your-base-are-belong-to-us-meme-zero-wing-game-intro-song-cats-all-your-base-are-belong-to-us-main-screen-turn-on-somebody-set-up-us-the-bomb-you-have-no-chance-to-survive-make-your-time-gif-17402493793372008535

[plush kindle]

Completely real

[snow siren]

I bet he plays Thousand Son

[odd skiff]

Shadow wizard money gang

[snow siren]

“‘I did nothing wrong’

Despite clearly doing many many things horrifically wrong” gang

[last goblet]

A quick google search shows different

[plush kindle]

What you saw was fake dw

Huge HH fan

[tacit void]

Its true he came to our LGS and kept trying to tell everyone Magnus did nothing wrong

[tall phoenix]

Reading a book

Wondering im not enjoying it as much as i should

turn cover

Its by Nick Kyme

I really should have checked when i was taking it out of my library but it was Warhammer Horror and i didnt bother looking expecting peak literature....

[forest spruce]

Yeah that's on you

[tall phoenix]

[wise yew]

ah yes the flavorful chicken paradox, you go to the restaurant expecting the usual tasty food but the chef was different today and cooked you something mid

[wide mica]

Which book?

[tall phoenix]

Sepultrum, noticed it was in my Drive and took it for a read due to the interesting premise but then the plot just dragged lol

[wide mica]

Oh yea damn that premise sounds real good

Shame

[tall phoenix]

Yeah tell me about it lol

big yapper story unfortunately

[frigid osprey]

every time tbh

try reading some of the iron hands heresy shorts
its all by nick kyme

[slow elm]

FUCK YOU DAN ABNET

fUCK YOU

[drowsy urchin]

[slow elm]

MF KIlLED OFF My FAvORITE characrer

https://tenor.com/view/no-noooo-british-cop-screaming-no-despair-crying-gif-14408871079120163442

[drowsy urchin]

https://klipy.com/gifs/do-you-have-any-idea-how-little-that-narrows-it-down-blight

[slow elm]

Bragg

From gaunts ghosts

[drowsy urchin]

ah

I managed to think at least 3 other characters before him

[slow elm]

I thought „no way he‘ll die! He has a mini! He can’t possibly kill him off like that!“

But no

This fucker

[drowsy urchin]

GG has a couple proper hearth-wrenchers

to be fair, the mini was released like 10 years after the book where he dies

[slow elm]

I hope that cu fucker gets killed good and proper

[drowsy urchin]

you just gotta wait and read to see if that happens

[slow elm]

What’s the book after guns of tanith?

I want to see him dead

[drowsy urchin]

Straight Silver iirc?

[slow elm]

Actually devastated rn

Im going to murder Dan abnett

[slow elm]

Yep

Thx

[drowsy urchin]

🫡

[slow elm]

After that Sabbat martyr yes?

[odd skiff]

Good.

[drowsy urchin]

Yeah

[slow elm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1395392089369608324/1396348839723667547/togif-1.gif

[odd skiff]

They are dead, move on.

[slow elm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586774500855644160/1439465673662136441/image_48_1.gif

[slow elm]

This feffer

Tried to kill Larkin

I hope he dies

Soon

Like

Immediately

[drowsy urchin]

[slow elm]

What the fuck is wrong with Dan abnett

He makes me like a character and then 3 pages kills them off

[drowsy urchin]

It's the good ol' "give this character a bunch of attention like never before and kill them in the next chapter"

[tall phoenix]

They had 2 days till retirement!

Also were gonna get married.

[slow elm]

Whenever it goes a tiny bit deeper than usual with a character I like I start praying that they aren’t about to die

[drowsy urchin]

[slow elm]

I mean props to him for writing good enough characters that even the prospect of them maybe dying gets me anxious but god emperor damnit

With warhammer it always depends on the writer

[autumn willow]

He does that alot

remember the Kasrkin Captain or was it sgt?

Whose that person again

[slow elm]

Sometimes it’s chill a bit fun some comedy relief and sometimes they just leave me like this

[autumn willow]

i think one the pilots he wrote dies 3 chaps later

[slow elm]

From which book?

[autumn willow]

Malleus

The one where Eisenhorn, Bequin and Grandma Inquisitor apprehend a cult on cadia

[slow elm]

Haven’t read that one yet

[tall phoenix]

Im sure the beloved heroic and valiant Imperium will remember their sacrifice as great, kind, loving soldiers to the federation 🫡

[autumn willow]

fuck

💀 💀 💀 💀 💀

i should have added spoiler

[tall phoenix]

[paper maple]

lol nice

[slow elm]

Going from the cain books to gaunts ghosts definitely was quite a tone shift

[autumn willow]

Poor Larkin

Larkin and the Mk Venner later books

[autumn willow]

Another one was Try Again Bragg

[slow elm]

Ye

Read that one yesterday

Was actually devastated

[autumn willow]

I wish Dan wasnt super busy

He could have wrapped up the books

[slow elm]

I was waiting for the point where gaunt or sum comes from behind and blows cuus head schmoove off but no

[tall phoenix]

Tbh Cain is a comedy series that has the exact same thing happen in each novel verbatim, Gaunt is just a Sharpe Rifles copy thing where they go against EVIL ARROGANT officers while the heroic Ghosts who basically have zero negative traits fight against their asshole commanders while proving themselves every plotline as some nice characters die here and there like every episode of the TV show.

[autumn willow]

I know it ends with Bittersweet ending.

Its gonna be tanith regiment dies but they get to have planet named after them

[slow elm]

I see quite a lot negative traits in almost every ghost

[slow elm]

Vro

Why

[tall phoenix]

Im talking more about actual fascist soldiers serving a fascist regime stuff.

not

[autumn willow]

Its Dan Abnett

[tall phoenix]

"erm hes mean"

[paper maple]

Yeah thats every Guard book mostly though tbh

[autumn willow]

remember his books with Eisenhorn

[tall phoenix]

Yeah because you dont wanna alienate your reader

[autumn willow]

[slow elm]

Yes but I’m not even close to the end of the books

[tall phoenix]

nobody wants to read about the Ghosts pillaging some civillian city because they need supplies

[autumn willow]

Anarch was the latest book

[tall phoenix]

(which is what real soldiers usually do especially in the historic period the Ghosts book draw parallels from)

[paper maple]

Yeah its sensible but gets a bit formulaic

[slow elm]

Ye I’m on straight silver

[tall phoenix]

It does but it sells so lol

people like Cuu are ironically what most guardsmen would be like

[paper maple]

Low blow but i agree

[tall phoenix]

[autumn willow]

I wonder who goes first

[slow elm]

I mean

[autumn willow]

The bequin book or we go to gaunt finale

Because lord executioner gaunt is promoted and 2nd in command to the Lord General

Plus oh god I forgot the crusade name

Its been like decades already

[fickle scroll]

My favourite weirdo was the steel legion stormtrooper that almost got kidnapped by the Black templars. When he was listed under the death, i got very sad

[slow elm]

From how I understood it anyone under gaunt who pillages/loots is either shoot or gets punished in other ways

[autumn willow]

Andrej?

[tall phoenix]

Yeah but they really don't.

Do you want to read about Ghosts executing civilians because they are suspected "heretics" at the other of their officers among other miserable stuff soldiers do in wars.

[fickle scroll]

Sabat

[fickle scroll]

YESSS

[autumn willow]

thanks

[tall phoenix]

Its an understandable "hero group" choice because again it would be very droggy to read lol

[autumn willow]

Sabat Worlds Crusade is like decades already

[tall phoenix]

its why IG books are very filtered

or any evil regiment is just some group the protagonists rally/clash against

[lofty thunder]

Need a guard book where the mc group is the one from the cover of the 9e codex

[fickle scroll]

usually based on culture clashes too

[tall phoenix]

REAL.

[tall phoenix]

Yeah but again it doesnt go that deep into it

[autumn willow]

Dan barely did it

Culture clash did happen

It was that one regiment wearing carapace armor

[paper maple]

I always found the "no looting/pillaging" thing very funny because the Napoleonic period which the Gaunt books copy had tons of that stuff even under the threat of punishment lol

[tall phoenix]

Tbh yeah you cannot stop soldiers from pillaging and looting

realistically they'd always do it even in 40k

[fickle scroll]

but yeah, in 40k books a lot of chapters start with a new character that never survives till the end of the chapter

[autumn willow]

Even Duke of Wellington looked the other way

[tall phoenix]

the Guard just likes to keep a image of "professionalism" when the infantry primer literally tells them they can take anything they want from civillians for the war effort

[lofty thunder]

You can limit it but all towns an army enters will be left with significantly fewer spoons no matter what

[fickle scroll]

gotta have spoons

[tall phoenix]

Yeah spoons.

And food.

And women.

And other "entertainment"

lol

[slow elm]

Ye war is quite a horrible thing

[fickle scroll]

true, but I don't think they really go into depth on those... interesting subjects

[autumn willow]

Oh right the biggest culture clash was the doctrines iirc

[slow elm]

I wish we could all just love each other n all

[autumn willow]

Atleast in Gaunts books

[slow elm]

A bit

[fickle scroll]

yeah, sending light infantry to a trench war

[tall phoenix]

Found the image i was looking for

[slow elm]

But it’s mostly just

[tall phoenix]

its on the primer where it says guardsman are encouraged to "take" items people dont give them

[slow elm]

„Ye if you do that gaunt is gonna punish yo ahh“

[tall phoenix]

yeah because Gaunt is also the rare "good commissar"

which is like funny considering those are usualy non-existant

[autumn willow]

siege combat

[fickle scroll]

not if the medic saves you

[slow elm]

Ye

[tall phoenix]

https://klipy.com/gifs/mustafa-necohaus

[autumn willow]

Meanwhile relic portrayed commissar shooting their own men

[slow elm]

Was actually surprised he barley executed anyone

[tall phoenix]

Yeah lmao

just uh "DONT DO THAT"

https://klipy.com/gifs/cat-1628

[autumn willow]

Dont forget relic encouraged gameplay wise to increase damage

[fickle scroll]

didn't gaunt only execute other divisions?

[autumn willow]

Yeah

his uncle

his cousin

[tall phoenix]

Yeah lol

[tacit void]

You die fast if you keep shooting your men

[autumn willow]

His childhood friend?

[tall phoenix]

Because having him execute "coward" guardsmen would make readers not like him

[fickle scroll]

bro doesn't like his family huh

[tacit void]

Another Commissar was shot by him i think

[slow elm]

Cain philosophy

[autumn willow]

I mean his uncle was a gloryhound

[autumn willow]

Cain admitted that was a bad idea

[tacit void]

Literal facts though

[slow elm]

Ye

[autumn willow]

He knew killing the men and women under your command will die faster

[tacit void]

That's why he never does it

[autumn willow]

thats why Catachans had the highest deaths

[fickle scroll]

you never know when you walk into a cause of accidental friendly fire

[tacit void]

Fragging exists in 40k folks

[tall phoenix]

Well yeah thats why you shoot ones in single digits

a single example of a person to be executed sets a better tone

[autumn willow]

Mordians are the only where commissars are fined for not being disciplinary officers

[tall phoenix]

if you are in double digits that means you are bad at your job

[autumn willow]

[tall phoenix]

Commissars are political officers first and foremost

[slow elm]

Political animals

[tacit void]

Don't give suicidal orders

Try not to make everyone hate you

[autumn willow]

I think it was 5th edition or 6th mentioned Mordians are so disciplined that Commissar assigned there are penalized for not doing their jobs

[fickle scroll]

would there be krieg commisars? like commissars that are from krieg

[tall phoenix]

Yes they exist.

[autumn willow]

Legally No

[tall phoenix]

oh lol no

[fickle scroll]

or do they always outsource

[tall phoenix]

Commissars are outsiders

they get attached to regiments

[autumn willow]

Because I remember reading Commissars are always offworlders

[tacit void]

They must be from the Schola Progenium

[tall phoenix]

Krieg also doesnt give out that kind of thing, everyone on Krieg is born a soldier

[fickle scroll]

gotcha

[tacit void]

If a Krieger was sent there they wouldn't grow into a Krieger anyway

[autumn willow]

Darktide gave us Krieg Psykers

Which is by far the only one where they can use none outsiders?

[tall phoenix]

Thats Psykers adorning Krieg gear

the Krieg commissar minis show they can put on the outfits/motif of the regimetns they lead or get attached to

[tacit void]

No more krieger than Cain is valhallan when he puts on a valhallan coat

[tall phoenix]

Psykers, Zealots, Ogryns, Commissars etc are all auxillary folk who get paired up from the outside with Regiments.

its just for cosmetic matchup/identity

[autumn willow]

I thought like its less on the character and more on the role atleast for the golden skull skin

[fickle scroll]

i'd like to see an Elysian Orgryn

[tall phoenix]

yeah thats for the krieg psyker