40k-book-club

[meager trench]

so much wrong there, but you know what, if it makes you happy, you and lucerne can jerk yourselves off!

[sage gale]

"No" (refuses to elaborate) - this doofus

you know what

[meager trench]

fap fap fap fap fap - mr fellatio here

[sage gale]

i'll give you points

i've been styled on

[sage gale]

I'll have you know my head is legendary

thank you very much

[sage gale]

do you care to elabroate tho

[zenith mountain]

I mean I suppose guy haley needs someone to willingly consume his books

god knows they're not gonna sell on actual quality

[sage gale]

well yeah not everyone can be force fed

or buy them on the principle of owner all the SoT novels

inspite of the fact that the lost and the damend is unironically the worst novel in the SoT

and a strong contender for the worst in the HH

right next to "prospero burns"

[meager trench]

the takes in this chat right now are giving me mad constipation they're so bad

brb imma get myself some pepto and be back in like an hour

[sage gale]

Lmao

"Your wrong" refuses to elaborate

@meager trench you cannot tell me you enjoyed the lost and the damned

I refuse to believe you can tell me that without the slightest bit of satire

@zenith mountain I don't think ADB would have been a good pick either tho for DoF

ADB writes decent stuff, but he writes incredibly slowly

[zenith mountain]

The thing about ADB is that his "astartes and POV side characters" standard works GREAT for dawn of fire

and that he unlike Haley understands thematics

[sage gale]

Yeah

[zenith mountain]

and nuanced multiple POV

[sage gale]

but he writes incredibly slowly

[zenith mountain]

To put it bluntly they needed a writer

instead they had haley

[sage gale]

and thats the important part

[zenith mountain]

Honestly?

If it was quality or quantity they made the wrong call

[sage gale]

Agreeable

but there are writers who write just as good, if not better, than Haley

and write faster

like Chris Wraight

[zenith mountain]

I mean haley is bottom half of BL roster

[sage gale]

Who would have been my pick

[zenith mountain]

hell even Kyme recently hasn't been as bad

amazingly

[sage gale]

Nick kyme unironically isn't a bad writer

[zenith mountain]

ehhh

[sage gale]

he just only does good work with what he likes

[zenith mountain]

burned a lot by his earlier work

heh

[sage gale]

I mean sure

but his stuff in Empire at War was good

so was hisu story in Sons of the Emperor

He was definitely a better fantasy writer than 40k writer

Gave Thorpe or John French also wouldn't have been bad

[zenith mountain]

Thorpe is...not my first pic for this sort of thing TBH

French is either amazing or WTF

[sage gale]

cough mortis

[sage gale]

fair enough, but I havent hated anything he writes, and most of his stuff is just bland enough that it can be enjoyed if not loved by most people

[zenith mountain]

Problem is I'd argue he's basically "Haley tier but understands slightly more that if you want a story not based around your antagonists being literally NPCs, you need to develop them"

Both have the same issues of "these ideas have potential in the hands of a real writer"

[sage gale]

I haven't been dissapointed with anything thorpe has written recently

I will reitterate

Chris Wraight would have been my pick of the liter

but he was too busy writing warhawk

[sage gale]

I think your being too harsh on thorpe TBH a lot of his stuff was kinda mid, but it wasn't terrible either

and a few of those were actually really good like Luther was quite rad, and so was the first wall

like, if were using haley as a measurement

[zenith mountain]

First Wall was a bit anemic TBH

The problem with Thorpe is he's a bit more an ideas guy than a writer

and some of his ideas are wacky

[sage gale]

as far as I can tell he still hasn't written anything down as eggregious as "and then the harlequins wasted untold eldar lives, but because they have plot amor they dueled like a bajillion custodes and fought the captain general to a stale mate"

[sage gale]

fair enough

[zenith mountain]

To be fair, we were overdue for banana smoothies

Like that scene was silly for other reasons

[sage gale]

I

[zenith mountain]

but not because bananas get smushed

[sage gale]

Factually incorrect?

[zenith mountain]

No really

Custodes are ridiculous in the codex take on them

they're ideally one trick ponies

[sage gale]

Outcast dead and first heretic would like your location

[zenith mountain]

yes and how many years

has it been

since we had that sensible take on them

[sage gale]

between those two

like

3

4 maybe

[zenith mountain]

Look if we were still running on first heretic's take

[sage gale]

(between those two and throneworld)

[zenith mountain]

I'd be fine

we're not

[sage gale]

well no
because the first heretics take was bad for other reasons too lmao

[zenith mountain]

The Custodes lore got very stupid and honestly even with ||end and the death|| being sensible

nah it was perfect

[sage gale]

really played down the gal vorbak imo

[zenith mountain]

ehhhhhhhh

[sage gale]

I feel custodes are pgood where they are in lore

[zenith mountain]

nah like the writers vastly overinflate their usefulness and general lack of flaws

[sage gale]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[zenith mountain]

they're Codex: Emperor's secret service

not "Bestest Evah With No Chances of Fucky Wuckies"

[sage gale]

I mean sure?

but we also

don't get alot form them either

they have like 3 books where they are the star of the show

4 if you count valdor

and everywhere else they are side characters

so the "perfect to to a fault" works well for them

when we get to see their PoV, we tend to get interesting takes

like the custodes feeling doubt in the book Master of Mankind

or the schism of ideologies present between staying on terra and defending the emperor passively, or taking the fight to his enemies, like in the watchers of the throne series

I don't expect any more nuance out of custodes in 40k books where they aren't the focus than i do a random gondorian in LotR

[zenith mountain]

Problem is their redefined role makes them narrative black holes

[sage gale]

I disagree?

[zenith mountain]

that just by being a thing on screen limit storytelling options especially because a lot of writers are hacks

They're GK without the interesting aspects

[sage gale]

except they're not

[zenith mountain]

and with even more of a license to derail the plot

If I wanted emotionally stunted supersoldiers I'd read a space marines book

[sage gale]

and as far as I can tell they've never been written that way

[zenith mountain]

if I wanted stories where falling isn't an option and there's a crisis, I'd read grey knights

[sage gale]

atleast not when we get their POVs

[zenith mountain]

if I wanted two dimensional cut outs I'd read ultramarines

Custodes post redefinition are just every negative GW storytelling quality in one

[sage gale]

Question
Have you read any of the 4 actually custodes stories in existence

or are you just taking their appearances as being flat background characters from other peoples perspective

because yes, when they aren't the focus of a story, theyre flat and uninteresting

[zenith mountain]

I've slogged through them and honestly don't have the spoons to bother again

[sage gale]

Because the custodes books out there are actually really good

and are

[zenith mountain]

What, Emperor's Legion? lol

[sage gale]

nothing like what you described

[zenith mountain]

yeah no the best thing about those novels would be deleting the custodes

the other subplots I recall as being vaguely interesting but honestly I'm not rereading them anytime soon

[sage gale]

interesting custodes stories aren't stories about them in battle

because yes, they are mary sues in battle as they should be

their interesting stories comes from them outside of combat

especially in 40k

where they have to play in an imperium they despise

working for creations they hate

to protect an emperor they shamed

Custodes took the two biggest Ls in the setting, and have spent the last 11 thousand years trying to repent

Master of mankind does a great job showing off the updates custodes lore, while also humbling them down and beating them up

if you don't remember

they loose the war in the webway, and it's not even close

like
sure

when we see space marines and normal humans talk about custodes they're basically cardboard cutouts

and when they're not the focus of a nocel, the secondary background character is flat

this is like complaining that grimma wormtongue isn't a dynamic and interesting character with a 3 novel character arch

One could argue pmuch the same thing about space marines TBH, those that aren't the focus of the novels are just either cannon fodder, or pallid uninteresting characters who never make any decisions for themselves

IDK the whole argument that custodes are uninteresting typically fails to mention all the things that makes them interesting and focuses on the fact that in single combat they don't loose

I remember a time when space marines were written that way

Nobody ever seems to complain about the early heresy books tho when space marines jsut walked over a galaxy that had been developing for over 5000 years since being cut off from tera because some guy in funky armor gave them exploding guns

but when custodes get some minor hardfought dubs here and there they're mary sues

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[zenith mountain]

Space Marines actually 1.

take losses routinely

2. the story is literally about them imploding

3. have real flaws

4. have far less plot armor even with protagonist power

MoM also is the exception not the rule, it's by adb who sadly doesn't get a monopoly on writing them

[sage gale]

Space marines conquered entire planets with ~ 1-2k soldiers and took double digit losses

Anything over 100 was seen as extreme losses

[zenith mountain]

Space Marines also lost chapters even in the first few novels

also the numbers got retconned massively upwards

[sage gale]

The like 300 lost taking the entire laer system was considered a great tragedy

[zenith mountain]

why yes because that was literally a whole legion, and not a numerically huge one

[sage gale]

No they deployed like

3 or 4 companies

They were just abd expeditionairy fleet

Just like every other

Custodes have real flaws

They just dont have a blanket cross legipm character flaw like "being too full of myself"

[zenith mountain]

Custodes aren't allowed meaningful flaws though

[sage gale]

Factually incorrect?

Trajann Valoris is known to be staunch and stubborn, preferring that the world, and specifically the Custodes, remain stagnant and dont ever change, a decision which had he not held is implied to have potentially helped save cadia

Thats

A substantial flaw

Valperian is hot headed and tends to act quite emotionally, something which almost sends the entire adeptas terra into anarchy, thats a substantial and meaningful flaw

[sage gale]

Ah i missresd

[zenith mountain]

Oh no, their flaw is that they're too good at their jobs and if they did anything it'd upend the story

such tragic

[sage gale]

My apologies

[zenith mountain]

much depth

[sage gale]

None of that reads as their too good at their job

[zenith mountain]

The problem is that it doesn't matter if they have some immaturity

if they never actually suffer for it

That's a funny quirk, not a consequence

[sage gale]

Its how they interpret it, and that yes in these specific circumstances, the captain general of the adeptas cuatodes, a fighting force larger than even a space marine chapter could have swayed a major confrontation

[zenith mountain]

and I'll be real "idiot that could save Cadia but didn't" isn't a real story

or "blowhard that is never at risk of consequences"

[sage gale]

Your right it isnt and thats why it wasnt its own story, but a sub theme implied at later times

[sage gale]

For a blowhard that is never at any risk of concequences he seema to find alot of concequences for his actions, successes and failures alike

[zenith mountain]

The problem with custodes

is that they cut off too many chances to struggle or fail

[sage gale]

They dont?

Unless the only place to struggle or fail is in combat

[zenith mountain]

It's 40k, a lot is

problem is they're not even real characters for intrigue either

[sage gale]

Interesting cuatodes stories arent combat focused

[zenith mountain]

which just leaves...sitting around and deciding whether or not to win already

that's honestly like what memes about space marine writing are like

I mean the problem is they're if anything even less interesting for intrigue

because they have i-win buttons

[sage gale]

The 2nd watchers of the trhone book says otherwise imo

[zenith mountain]

The problem is they're cutouts in a setting where ambiguity and uncertainty are key

and that means they'll never be good subjects for stories to focus on

they'[re scenery

[sage gale]

I mean yeah in their whole ass 2 nivels where theyve been main characters they havent had much room to grow

[zenith mountain]

I mean let's not give more

frankly their dex was a horrid mistake

[sage gale]

You complain they have no nuance

And then dont want them to ahve anymore nuance

[sage gale]

Dont disagree on tbis tho

[zenith mountain]

Look you know memes about metal nids?

[sage gale]

As a custodes player, adding them to thr game was a mistake

[zenith mountain]

Custodes are basically those memes but true

[sage gale]

I do not tbh

[zenith mountain]

It's a complaint about depth or motivation

it's a (false) claim that old necrons didn't have room for characterization

[sage gale]

I mean they didnt really

They were all jist enslaved autamata

[slow pilot]

Was horus heresy supposed to go on as long as it did

[zenith mountain]

enslaved is what the rank and file are now

[sage gale]

Yes

[zenith mountain]

oldcrons were willing participants

[sage gale]

Sort of?

[zenith mountain]

Nah like they were pretty on board with plan "feed the fleshlings to the c'tan"

[sage gale]

I mean sure

But like
They werent exactly more intereating for it

[zenith mountain]

def were

[sage gale]

They were still rather incredibly one minded in most things

Now that sir

[zenith mountain]

I mean they did weird inscrutable shit

[sage gale]

Is a spicy as fuck take

[zenith mountain]

newcrons are just bad

Like one of the worst narrative choices GW ever made

[sage gale]

I respect the fucking gall of that take

I disagree

[zenith mountain]

wacky cartoon characters

[sage gale]

But i respect that

[zenith mountain]

Fun fact

[sage gale]

Aside for trazyn disagree

[zenith mountain]

newcrons are canonically forced to be boring

Literally have enforcers to make sure they're all boring and onenote nobles

literally not allowed to have more interesting ways of warfare

because MUH HONOR CODES

I'm not even joking

[sage gale]

Yeah

[zenith mountain]

I'm talking about the fluff for the ridiculous praetorians

[sage gale]

Theyre stuck in their ways

[zenith mountain]

the problem is those ways are stupidly written

and too specific

as written by people really bad at writing sci fi

[sage gale]

I mean sure ig

But we also know what happens when necrons are allowed to run around all willy nilly

Thry fucking kill eachother more than the enemy

[zenith mountain]

I mean that's because bad writing

[sage gale]

No thats

Because thats who they are

They are dynastic

[zenith mountain]

because, again, bad writing

[sage gale]

Disagree

[zenith mountain]

Are you telling me a post-scarcity immortal race of androids is gonna be stuck in MUH NOBILITY CRAP

[sage gale]

I think rival dynasties is a more intereating factuon than

[zenith mountain]

god fucking no

[sage gale]

Feed the flesh to ribot god

[zenith mountain]

it's the cheapest fucking take on immortal tech zombies ever

"oh they're space tomb kigns"

[sage gale]

No, hence why the necrons are rad

[zenith mountain]

"but less interesting"

but they ARE

newcrons are stuck in boring dynasty mode

[sage gale]

Yeah

Thats

[zenith mountain]

or "lol literally mindwiped this is what you like right"

That's dull

[sage gale]

What makes them kinda interesting

[zenith mountain]

so many backstabbign noble factions

necrons should not be one

[sage gale]

Theyre petty as fuck

And their leadership is downrifht childish when it comea to fighting one another

[zenith mountain]

Dark Eldar/Imperial nobles but not fun

[sage gale]

They squabble and bicker

[zenith mountain]

I mean that's just stupid

so many factions alraedy did that

[sage gale]

Yeah

Sure

But

[zenith mountain]

it's just bad writing

[sage gale]

Thats jyst stupid is how i describe 40k to my friends

[sage gale]

I disagree

[zenith mountain]

Look anyone still stuck playing newcrons obviously likes that nonsense

but it's still objectively bad writing

[sage gale]

I feel like immortal beings who will outlast all life in the galaxy wouldnt have anything better to care about aside from whos going to be incharge after

[zenith mountain]

But like

that's not what we get

[sage gale]

Thats

Exactly what we got

[zenith mountain]

we get basically normal people in robot costumes

instead of characters that realize they'll live that long

and thus don't think in the same timeframes

[sage gale]

They do

[zenith mountain]

they relaly don't they just read as meatbags

[sage gale]

That is exactly what they do

[zenith mountain]

right dow nto MUH HONOR

why

[sage gale]

So your telling me

[zenith mountain]

I'm telling you that they read as basically Imperial humans doing cosplay

[sage gale]

Youd rather blank faced nid knock offs

[zenith mountain]

Yes in a heartbeat

far better

[sage gale]

Who may have slightly more personality

Yeah thats

[zenith mountain]

taht's a dumb meme but it's still better even as the meme

[sage gale]

Thats a hot and spicy take my friend

[zenith mountain]

the newcrons are some of 40k's worst writing possible

[sage gale]

Ill respect it

I dont agree

But i respect it

I think what we git is hella intereating and is poorly represented by the fact that the indomotus crusade is currently primarily imperium versus necrons

Which shortens the time we can see the necrons play out

The infinite and the divine shows pmuch exactly the opposite abd ita really good

[quiet yew]

I can't get to the bloody product page

fug

[hearty niche]

Gonna put The End and The Death Part 1 on A

[sage gale]

L, ratio

[quiet yew]

I agree

I read the scene where ||the Emperor is bullrushing his way into Nurgle's Garden to fuck shit up|| and by God it was so mediocre it actually hurt

and any time at all when Mortarion is on screen in a Haley novel I want to gouge my eyes out

Haley likes contrast too much - he overly humanizes superhuman characters and makes mortal characters a little more heroic than they should be

He also fails to capture the sense of grand spectacle that the setting constantly depicts in its visual media in the same way ADB or Abnett do

[slender willow]

What'd he do

[quiet yew]

He's just not the best writer is all

[slender willow]

You said he makes mortal characters more heroic

Juat wondering how so

[quiet yew]

Haley's mortal characters routinely stand up to superhuman challenges and conquer them

nothing wrong with that, I read Shadowsword and it was cool seeing a mortal tank crew playing a key role in defeating a daemon-supported Chaos invasion

[sage gale]

It just happens with every single mortal chracter he writes

He cant get enough of it lmao

[quiet yew]

it only really becomes a problem because the superhuman characters who are in the same novel as the mortals are routinely portrayed as being... emotional

Nothing wrong with emotion, but reducing Mortarion from daemonic God-King to petulant son who's still sad his father doesnt like him is uhhh

[sage gale]

I mean to be fair to haley with Morty

He wasnt given much material to work with

[quiet yew]

Doesn't help that the daddy issues extend to Typhus and their strained father-son relationship becomes the one dimension by which their characters operate in a Haley novel

[sage gale]

Ye

Just to he fair to haley, alot of the deathfuard stuff was bad kong before him and he had to try and piece it together

He def wasnt the man for the job

[quiet yew]

This propensity to make superhuman characters relatable by showing them as emotional and vulnerable really gives off the impression that Haley can't really wrap his head around the "chainsaw sword and cathedrals with guns" craziness aspect of 40k

[quiet yew]

That's fair, I like Haley's imperial guard stuff at least

[slender willow]

Maybe because in those the IG are supposed to be heroic

And there's no immortals to feck it up

[sage gale]

I dont feel like this is the key flaw with haleys witing tbh

[quiet yew]

The combined-arms operation between the Titanicus, Imperial Navy, Imperial Guard, and Black Templars to take out a Chaos Titan maniple remains one of my favorite chapters

[sage gale]

This has beeb a thing going on since the start of the horus heresy series

Humanizing the inhuman characters we see to make them relatable so you can tell an interesting story

[quiet yew]

I get that, but Haley does it too much and doesn't depict the superhumans doing superhuman things enough

[sage gale]

I have always felt Haley just doesnt do a good job with his characteruzations

[quiet yew]

So his Space Marines feel more like a homoerotic college football team instead of demigod supersoldiers

[sage gale]

Idk

[quiet yew]

Yeah, I think characterization is his problem

[sage gale]

Thats my headcannon on astartes lmao

"Brother show me your battle barge"

[quiet yew]

lol

What's your favorite chapter, Purist?

Mine is the Blood Ravens

yes, I do not play tabletop

[sage gale]

But yeah i dont think the problem is hes tring to characterize and show less heroic super human stuff, i think the problem is hes characterizing them in wierd ways that dont fully make sense

[sage gale]

Straight blood angels

I like their 30k shtick alot

(I do play table top lmao)

[quiet yew]

Cool, what is their 30k shtick?

[sage gale]

They are largely what reinnisance era europe thought rome was

[quiet yew]

Ah, the sculpted aquiline noses and the curly locks look?

[sage gale]

Yeee

They really play up the noble barbarian very well, and are contrasted hard against thier darker secrets

[quiet yew]

Yeah, some people don't like Sang because he's too perfect

but in the scene where he was meeting his legion for the first time

man that was unironically inspiring

I quite like the darker aspects of their bloodline

Knights of Blood and Flesh Tearers come to mind

Gabriel Seth is pretty based because he hates primaris marines (just like me)

[sage gale]

He is the ideals of the imperium made manifest

[quiet yew]

He has the soul of my perfect girlfriend

[sage gale]

Hence why him dying to horus on the vengeful spirit is important symbology

[quiet yew]

cough

Yeah

Horus killed my spiritual girlfriend

[sage gale]

Thats litteraly the dream of the imperium dying

[quiet yew]

and that is why I hate Chaos

[sage gale]

L

Id let sanguinious top me ngl

[quiet yew]

Oh I can't imagine doing anything naughty with the Primarchs

because they're nukes in human form

I can't sexualize that

also I'm not gay

[sage gale]

Death is a plus!

You mean to tell me its a megative that i dont have to pay rent anymore?

[drowsy urchin]

let's fucking go

[sage gale]

Cring

I dont get my copy until tonight

[deft temple]

So I cant really commit to a new book series at the moment, but does anyone here read the comics? Any recommendatiosn on where to start?

[mellow knot]

My, you guys have been having a big ol' chat!

[sage gale]

What do ypu mean you cant just start reading the heresy, its only 54 novels + novellas + short atories + 9 sot + 3 sot novellas + primarchs novellas

Lol

[drowsy urchin]

Hey I started them in late 2018 and caught up before Saturnine released

[sage gale]

Have you consideres touching gradd
And no the grass on your mini doesnt count

[drowsy urchin]

No time, need to get through The End and The Death Part I

Granted, I did skip the later novella collections and the Salamanders books

[tacit raft]

I remember starting w40k like 15 years ago, and horus heresy almost, almost done

its like a constant race, and you still cant keep up

ive finished Assasinorum Kingmaker. And i found it pretty good. I guess Robert Rath's got some talent for sure considering he wrote Trazyn/Orikan "smurf competition" in a good way

[drowsy urchin]

yeah his work is quite great, another newish BL author who's work I've really fallen love into is Nate Crowley

[tacit raft]

Fehervari still my favourite

so how the impession on volume one?

[drowsy urchin]

haven't gotten too far, two hours into it thus far and I've been enjoying it. Terribly much hasn't happened yet though

building up slowly

[meager trench]

It does start slowly, but the build is worth it

[drowsy urchin]

yeah no doubt

[idle berry]

popping in to suggest the night lords omnibus, thats all

[forest spruce]

just got into the books half way through last year, finished infinate and divine, the dark imperium trilogy, watchers of the throne and regents shadow, and now im reading vaults of terra. ive enjoyed every book so far.

[quiet yew]

I got into reading the odd 40k novel every now and then like 10+ years ago

[sage gale]

Vaults of terra is fun how did you feel about watchers?

[sage gale]

I am a diehard custodes fan and so I am always looking to indoctrinate the (relative) youth lmao

[quiet yew]

Bro I still can't access the End and the Death's webpage on the bl website

[meager trench]

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/horus-heresy-siege-of-terra-the-end-and-the-death-vol-1-hb-2023-eng seems to be up

[quiet yew]

I just wanna get the epub from the black library website

[sage gale]

L

659 pages

[sage gale]

Give it a day, ita probably experiencing some heavy global traffic, this is only one of the most anticipated BL releases

[quiet yew]

I can't access Iron Kingdom or other releases that are supposedly being published at the same time as tEatD

[sage gale]

I would omagone all of BL is down, those are some very cloaely timed major releases

Whether your into 40k lore or 30k lore this weekend was some major releases

And BL webaite, given how shoddy it is, probably cant handle the thruput

[forest spruce]

i loved it

[midnight wind]

Does anyone here have the Rogal Dorn primarch book? The Emperor's Crusader? Are you guys missing chapter pages?

[sage gale]

@midnight wind all of mine are present

[midnight wind]

Could you send me a page of the end of chapter 1 beginning of chapter 2?

[midnight wind]

^ should have directly responded to you

[sage gale]

In a bit sure

[midnight wind]

Cool thanks.

For references here's my edition

[sage gale]

sorry i lied to you

The book is all one chapter

So you arent missing pages

It just never stops

@midnight wind

[midnight wind]

Jesus, but good to know

I guess a fist can't be separated LOL

@sage gale

[sage gale]

Nope

Yeah I had to check my copy for a sec

Ive read so many of these novels and novellas its hard to keep track

[quiet yew]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/502474281406693386/1079629114564157480/image.png

FINALLY

[quaint siren]

It’s definitely showing it’s age. It feels like a website from the late 2000’s

[quiet yew]

Reading this book my heart swells with love and loyalty for the Emperor

[quiet yew]

And ||Horus|| too for that matter

[opal meadow]

just wanted to share my happiness here
they have arrived

[quiet yew]

Minor spoiler alert

Ulkair, the Great Unclean One from DoW2: Chaos Rising and Retribution, is confirmed to have participated in the Siege of Terra

[jaunty stratus]

but did the metal bawkses also pariticpate?

[quiet yew]

Maybe Aramus and Thaddeus were sent back in time during their penitent crusade in the Eye and did fight at the Palace as unexpected reinforcements

[jaunty stratus]

whos aramus? mean avitus?

[quiet yew]

Force Commander Hairgel

[jaunty stratus]

oh, they gave him a name, didn't know

[quiet yew]

Yeah in the novelization of DoW2, which I heard was not so good

Still, pretty cool. Two companies of Blood Ravens (including the player's strike force) defeat a Black Legion warband and banish a greater daemon that fought at the very walls of the Imperial Palace 10,000 years ago. Let it not be said that the magpies have been found wanting

[buoyant shore]

The magpies lost their Chapter Master and what, two thirds of their ranks to heresy?

Pretty sure they were found wanting and needed some time to recover.

[quiet yew]

Yes but the loyalist Blood Ravens were heroic and won in the end

[jaunty stratus]

also, they can now backflip in terminator armor

[quiet yew]

Truly one of the finest chapters in the rolls of the Index Astartes

[deft temple]

Comic book suggestions anyone?

[jaunty stratus]

Batman returns

[deft temple]

Thats a movie. Although I am current on most batman titles right now. Batman and Detective Comics being the major ones

Also reading limited run Deadly Duo and Urban Legends

Both great.

[jaunty stratus]

eh, did mean the frank miller one, something something returns

[deft temple]

Ah, The Dark Knight Returns and Batman Year One

[jaunty stratus]

yup

the ones where that sub par director stole all the one shot scenes from

awesome comics

[deft temple]

Very good indeed. He also did a one shot All Star Batman and Robin which wasnt bad if you like his stuff.

and a Superman Year One run, which was pretty neat (although not many people liked it. I did though)

[jaunty stratus]

ye, I got myself a kind of "must read" collection of the classics, the two you mentioned and killing joke, hush, knightfall, long halloween (though I really did not like the artstyle of the last one)

but sadly not yet felt the urge to read any other comics

[deft temple]

Well, may I suggest?

[jaunty stratus]

except maybe fables, if they werent so god damn expensive here where I live

sure, shoot

[deft temple]

Everything you mentioned are like "classics". You cant go wrong with them. If I was gonna rank them (and this is entirely subjective) I'd go Long Halloween, Killing Joke, Knighfall, and Hush. BUT, if you want to take a total side step and read something new, with really great art (particularly great silent portraits), read Geoff Johns Batman: Three Jokers

Its three issues (which I believe are in omnibus), and the first couple pages will hook you.

Just a suggestion

Probably some of the best batman facial expressions I have ever seen in comics

[jaunty stratus]

noted, will look into it, thank you🙏

[deft temple]

Great! If you ever do, let me konw what you think. He uses hyper-realistic style which I think fits well with batman

[jaunty stratus]

I mean, I also have arkham asylum, which is also quite unique, cool fever dream of a graphic novel

but will do

[deft temple]

Oh yeah, those are fun too. He takes more of a Gothic Surrealism style with those. I have to be in the right frame of mind for those

[slow pilot]

The xenos Chelka from dawn of fire is my new favorite warhammer character

I love how people insult her and she roasts them every time

[meager trench]

She's got wit

[slow pilot]

im going back through dawn of fire and writing down the names of the characters and who they are lol

the first book

i was starting to get confused. i have 7 already

at the point i am at in the book the important characters are

fabbin - adept, finnula - first LT, athagey - LT, messinius - space marine, nawra - crazy lady, lacrante - soldier, antoniato - inq memeber, rostov - inquisitor, chelka - Xenos

am i forgetting anyone i am on chapter 16

||he is showing off the new space marines ||

[slow pilot]

im glad i made the list because i have been confusing rostov with messinius

[meager trench]

[quiet yew]

I read 550 pages or so of the End and the Death yesterday

Time to finish the book today

[quiet yew]

AWww come on

[slow pilot]

when does the next come out

[quiet yew]

Supposedly Q3 2023

[sage gale]

Not soon enough

@quiet yew what did you think

[quiet yew]

Pretty damn alright

Dan Abnett's sense of scale is grand as ever

"They have crucified Titans along the Ultimate Wall."

powerful

[sage gale]

Yeee

[quiet yew]

My least favorite sequences were Fafnir Rann's

because as much as I like space marines, combat is just combat

[sage gale]

Sure, but i hope it builds up to something

I liked seeing dominion zephon there

[quiet yew]

His encounter with the ||daemon|| in the archivists' room was pretty baller

[sage gale]

It mighr cap off both their stories pretry well

Yeah

||Valdor stabbing the ship with the appolonian spear, and muttering the vengeful spirits true name was pretty damn baller||

[quiet yew]

That was baller as well

I also like how Abnett described the psychological effects of the will of Chaos by

basically letting it drive the narration, attempting to gaslight both the pov character and to a lesser extent, the reader

It felt to me that Chaos itself was taking command of the prose and therefore destiny itself

And the gods were talking to me even if they weren't aware of me

sounds melodramatic? well I enjoyed the book

[sage gale]

Book was good

Its yhe litterary version of edging

Abnett knows we know whats coming, so hea not pussyfooting around by making some wierd narrative

[quiet yew]

Book was good, loved the cameo of Aramus and Thaddeus when they came out of their penitent crusade in the Eye, traveling back in time to help defend the Palace

[sage gale]

Yee

I loved the ||forshadowing of the fallen on caliban||

[quiet yew]

I've only read one Dark Angels book, and only one

and Zahariel was completely different in this book to the one I read

I don't know what happened to him during the Heresy

but I'm sad that he seems to have lost his enthusiasm

Also like I said last night, Ulkair was namedropped as one of the greater daemons participating in the attack on the Palace

Further connecting the Blood Ravens to the canon of the setting, which is cool

[sage gale]

Yee

Blood ravens have always been cannon lmao

[quiet yew]

Yes but now they're more canon

Oh I fondly remember killing Ulkair

But I'm not sure what to think of ||the Custodes being puppeted by Chaos to turn against the Emperor||

[sage gale]

Thats rad

[quiet yew]

||Primarchs are primarchs, but that seems physically impossible for Custodes and the book even outright mentions it||

[sage gale]

||As a custodes player, and an avid fan of their lore, when the chaos gods themselves directly intervene, they are going to be turned against their lord and master||

||This isnt some pussy bitch like drach'nyen trying to win iver a cuatodians heart, this it the gods themselves practically posessing the damn custodians||

[quiet yew]

||I understand that, intellectually, but it seemed to me that the Four weren't too much there since Horus kept on being mentioned over and over again. I know he's the Dark King and everything and potentially a nascent Chaos God but still||

[sage gale]

||The fact that so many of them fought it off so sucrssfully is a testament to just how unbreakable they truly are||

||The four are there, were told that throughout the books, hprus doesnt want to believe it||

||Horus still believes he can chain chaos, he says so himself. He doesntnwant to admit that his entire victory up to this point is their doing, and not his||

[quiet yew]

||My selection of the HH series has not been comprehensive, so I'm not sure of Horus' mental state throughout the war. Ironically I dropped False Gods because McNeill's writing bored me. This is the first time I've seen Horus so characterized since Horus Rising and it seems to me that he's been completely hoodwinked by Chaos dementia, so much so that he's not even a shadow of his former self||

[sage gale]

||Hes gone, hes entirely dunked on. His descent from a loving father to what he is now is impressive. Chaos dementia is a good wya to describe it.||

[quiet yew]

||When he rises from his throne and astartes and greater daemon alike start getting seizures at the mere sight of him, it was awesome||

[sage gale]

||Yeeee||

||The horus dating sim was rad||

[quiet yew]

this is zephon? whistles

[sage gale]

Zephon is rad

[slow pilot]

Are there any good books that are about (Gana spell this wrong) adeptas mechanicas

[jaunty stratus]

to the people from the last bookclub that got an amazon gift card and are sitting in europe: Did you get anything ordered from amazon.se? I managed to annoy my brother long enough to get his credit card, but there is like exactly nothing that gets shipped out of sweden

I even was about to look for really useless stuff I don't need, nothing gets shipped to where I live

[sage gale]

Mechanicus from the horus heresy
Skittarius
Therea a few others but those are the big two

[slow pilot]

The tech priests

[sage gale]

Those arw the books your lookin for

[slow pilot]

There are none around the current time

[sage gale]

Oh yeah

Most books arent

[sage gale]

Radical

I was gonna buy that one and then the owner of my LGS kept it lmao

[slow pilot]

Had to leave for class but I'm gana open it when I get home

[meager trench]

the Forge of Mars series is pretty good

I remember starting to read Imperator Wrath of the Omnissiah but i don't remember why i stopped, i think some other novel came out at around the same time so i switched over to that. it seemed alright

Belisarius Cawl The Great Work is a banger

Titanicus

don't remember others off the top of my head

[sage gale]

the only ones I can remember are the books mechanicus and skitarrius

[hardy trench]

I finally want to get around to reading 40k, was trying to see if anyone could suggest a solid Salamanders one.

[deft temple]

Grabbed at library. First warhammer read. Good or temper my expectations?

[tacit raft]

havent tried it yet, on this saturday or sunday ill try

[jaunty stratus]

would you keep me updated?

[deft temple]

Well chapter one sure is good

[meager trench]

It's a classic novel

[meager trench]

There isn't much on the salamanders, just the Tome of Fire series and some HH novels. Soooo....

Tome of Fire is aight I guess

[tacit raft]

ok, ill try not to forget

[vernal nacelle]

So I started reading the Horus heresy books, see you next year

[tacit raft]

😅 maybe 5 years later

[magic prawn]

I read the Macharius trilogy and still couldn't tell if "Solar" was his first name or part of the "Lord" title

[sage gale]

Part of the title

His name is leontus

Or in your case macharius

[orchid herald]

Lord solar is the postion occupied. Simillar the is a lord obscuriat. Lord tempest ect the sector lords

[slow pilot]

i think avenging son is my favorite book from warhammer

based i know

[sage gale]

Its a decebr one thats for sure

Def not my personal favorite

But its good

[slow pilot]

i love every character

they are all so different

[slow pilot]

dont know how people call this average

[sage gale]

Becauze its kinda mid tbh

Ita a good book

[slow pilot]

do people like non stop action?

[sage gale]

But not GW's best

Aome particularly good ones are

anything from caiphas cain

echoes of eternity, warhawk, or saturnine from SoT

Cadia Stands

The Infinite and the Divine

@slow pilot curuous how many 40k books have you actually read

And how many of them arent the "moden" ones (dark imperium, dawn of fire, etc)

[slow pilot]

this is my 7th

[sage gale]

Aight

[slow pilot]

and i watched a lot of lore videos

[sage gale]

Mhm

More just trhing to guage general exposure

[slow pilot]

i dont want to read horus herecy because i know how it ends to an extent

[meager trench]

a recommendation for cadia stands? lmfao

yikes

that's...not anywhere even close to a good novel

[sage gale]

Thats part of the fun

[meager trench]

[sage gale]

You also think the beast arises is good so

[meager trench]

[sage gale]

Part of the fun for recomending cadua standa is that ita pretty mediocre lmao

[sage gale]

To an wxtent thats part of the enjoyment for SoT and HH as a whole

[meager trench]

like granted, the cadia series gets generally more well written the longer it goes but....no. just...no.

[sage gale]

I liked it enough to muscle through it

Definitely not the best novel to be written

Still better than throneworld

[meager trench]

https://tenor.com/view/lolol-lmao-gif-22173456

[sage gale]

Although the shit under my shoe leaves a better taste in my mouth than throneworld

[slow pilot]

i love teh lore behind cadia though

[meager trench]

cadia's cool

the novel cadia stands, really isn't

[slow pilot]

i also listened to a way out

predictable ending but still pretty good

[sage gale]

Fair

[meager trench]

you want cadia, you can read ADB's blackmane novella which was kinda super awesome, Wraight's The Helwinter Gate

[sage gale]

Truth

[meager trench]

Cadian Blood is a classic, older novel that recently received a reprint

[slow pilot]

i love the purple eye thing

dont know why but i just find it cool

its like a badge of honor

[meager trench]

though the latter doesn't take place on cadia, just has cadians in it. i guess by that definition, Kasrkin is aight, Steel Tread is good. there are a lot of novels with cadians in them

[slow pilot]

my character in darktide is cadian

[meager trench]

since they're The Archetype for the IG

s'what happens when you have a planet who's main export pretty much is highly trained regiments for ~8-9k years

[sage gale]

Man i wish i could buy nivels from like
3 years ago

BL limited publishing runs brung me pain

Like
Valdor: birth of the imperium being 70 dollars at the cheapest

And thats like 4-5 years old

Like I get that BL isnt penguin or scholastic

But still

@slow pilot if you like guilliman, id reccomend the novel Know no Fear
It is horus heresy, but its rad as helll

It is the novel that mafe me lobe the UM

[slow pilot]

i like him but dont trust him

he acts with logic

[sage gale]

That is his superpower

Thinking before he acts

[slow pilot]

i would rather be invisible

[sage gale]

I would highly recommend know no fear

[slow pilot]

fear can be a good thing

[sage gale]

The book

[slow pilot]

oh lol

my point stands

[sage gale]

Ventanus is based

Too bad he never got a model of him searing a wordbearer with the legion vexilla

[slow pilot]

i only know stuff about some of the primarchs and i have no idea how to spell that

[sage gale]

The what?

Horus Heresy?

Legiones Astartes?

@slow pilot can you describe it?

[slow pilot]

weird it deleted the word

i dont know if that is right

[sage gale]

Primarch is right

[slow pilot]

damn

i spell everything wrong

I suck at spelling even though I read a lot

[sage gale]

Mhm

Mood

[slow pilot]

Book is small

I have 3 now because I ordered the stuff separately

[sage gale]

Ye

Lol

[main plover]

reading his new book, Angron aint even barely featured and its supposed to be his own book lol
its basically a GK novel tbh

[dusk vortex]

I forgot I spat out my on flight meal at Plague Wars

there is a moment the brand new impulsor tanks come out

and an Iron Warrior tries the old tactic of "jump between the tracks and sticky bomb it from underneath to blow it up while not getting crushed by the treads"

but becuase Impulsors are grav lifted the IW gets liquified by the gravity field before he can get his bombs off

hilarious way to go out

[dusk vortex]

Angron POV: FUCKING AAAAAAAA KILL KILL KILL KILL AAAA IT HURTS I NEED TO KILL

don't think that would make a compelling novel

[meager trench]

It's a GK/ renegades novel and imo done very well. Angron isn't really an individual like other traitor Primarchs are. He's just a ball of rage that infects everything else around it

[forest spruce]

Yeah angron really isnt a character you can write from the pov of. Same with the tyranids

[meager trench]

You can kinda get away with a teeny bit here and there but yeah generally it's better to keep it very minimal

[deft temple]

A few chapters in on the Space Wolf omnibus. My first Warhammer read. I must say its quite good.

[slow pilot]

Need to get 1 - 3 off ebay

[meager trench]

I imagine there will be a reprint before the series is over

Or right after it

[slow pilot]

I was hoping I would be number 69 or 420

I plan on buying a normal copy because this one is for display

[mossy needle]

Has anyone read the new Iron kingdom book, the plot sounds interesting, but like the little reviews that are available said it's garbage

[meager trench]

yeah, i liked it

[sage gale]

Got it today

Ill give you my verdict by saturdY

[slow pilot]

People have been shiting on dawn of fire but I think they are great

[sage gale]

TBH

Alot of people who shit on dawn of fire are more or less upset that the setting is moving forward

Or are just pissy that its moving forward in a way they themselves wouldnt have done

Often forgetting that a stagnated setting is part of what sealed the tomb for fantasy

[shrewd silo]

Is iron kingdom iron warriors or iron hands?

[sage gale]

No

[meager trench]

the Iron Kingdom is a series of Knight Worlds

[slow pilot]

What

That sounds a little childish lol

[sage gale]

Warhammer Fantasy Battles (WHFB) came before 40k, and was the original "Warhammer", It's now known as "the old world" or "the world that was"

[slow pilot]

What

Every time I think I have warhammer lore down something new pops up

[sage gale]

Fantasy and 40k are unrelated, mostly

[slow pilot]

[sage gale]

their lores are separate and only cross each other in passing warp based fever dreams

[slow pilot]

Sorry but I need to go to bed its 1am here

[sage gale]

Anyway WHFB had it's story dunked on in mid 2014

with something called "the end times"

very unpopular

and then aos came around

and basically spent it's entire first eddition shitting on old fantasy players

even more unpopular

and now instead of a unique setting with interesting lore and unique gameplay

we have sigmarines vs chaos and everyone else is irrelevent in the 40k knock off that is Age of Sigmar

(I do not like aos)

[meager trench]

and in the process revitalized the entire setting and actually started selling miniatures...whether you like it or not is largely irrelevant, as it's been a success. WHFB was a dinosaur and got put down like a dinosaur.

CA is the only reason the old world is coming back in any shape

[sage gale]

The old world was only a dinosaur because GW refused to do anything with the setting and actively degraded the game

old world is only marginally older than 40k, by less than a decade

heck
rogue trader and WFB released in the same year in 1986

WFB was no more a "dinosaur" than 40k is, GW just neglected doing anything with it

@meager trench

The game could have easily maintained it's popularity had GW decided to
Make new sculpts
refine the points down to balance the game
or bother not creating a ridiculous barrier to entry

I do agree the game was dying and CA did alot to bring it back to life

But lets not kid ourselves here and act like it wasn't salvageable at any point, or that GW could have revitalized interest in the setting by refining the game, instead of allowing it to flounder in exchange for their poster child, 40k

[meager trench]

not a dinosaur as in, age. as in, it was completely mismanaged, as you already said, and was running on practices that should've evolved years and years before they nuked it. I suspect the entire division just needed to be booted in the ass to revitalize that aspect of the setting, and AOS did it. WHFB had to die. The people running 40k were doing things vaguely right (well, until they had to kickstart that too with 8th), WHFB wasn't. It passed the point of no return long before they killed it

[sage gale]

I disagree

[meager trench]

to the surprise of no one

[sage gale]

The point of no return was the move from 6th to 7th, they had every opportunity there to fix the game

I doa gree by the end of 8th, the ending of the setting was inevitable

But there were opportunities both between 6th and 7th (where the game really started to hit the fan with points problems) and 7th to 8th (where the game started to teeter on the edge of unplayable) that they could have taken some fairly simple steps to fix the game

I will also say that AoS is a fine setting to itself, but is a poor spiritual replacement to WFB

AoS nwo that is

AoS first can suck my balls

[meager trench]

I think that the problems with WHFB were quite multifaceted and probably couldn't have been solved with 'fairly simple steps'. If they could've they would've, but they didn't due to varying reasons, probably including a lot of gross mismanagement on that side of the business.

[sage gale]

I mean yeah the steps would seem simple on the outside and we have the benefit of heindsight

[meager trench]

personally, I like AOS overall, but I haven't really gotten into it much. There are a few novels I'm interested in vaguely but mostly just been browsing the wikis

[sage gale]

i'm sure attempting to convince gw upper management to allow the game to be smaller to allow players to enter the game would have been quite the task

[sage gale]

AoS isn't terrible, its just young

it doesnt have 40 years of lore behind it

and so it feels weak in comparison to 40k and Fantasy

AoS as a game also just feels like hero hammer

[drowsy urchin]

WHFB was a bloated mess and AoS blows it out of the park gamewise, that is pretty much the public consciousness about it these days

[sage gale]

It mostly comes down to taste TBH

WHFB was fun for different reasons than AoS

IMO WFB felt much more like a strategic game, where AoS feels lot more like a tactical game, intermixed with your big hero fights

[frank mirage]

My copy of the infinite and the divine arrived yesterday am looking forward to that

[forest spruce]

Hope you enjoy it. Its a very good book

[main plover]

Enjoyed SoT: The End and the Death Vol. 1, can’t wait for Vol. 2

[summer beacon]

does anyone know where there is a good source of audiobooks?

i tried spotify but apparently its only in german T_T

[forest spruce]

Audible

[sage gale]

GW also has an audiobook app, but honeatly your better off using audible

[slow pilot]

ok i will die on the hill that dawn of fire is the best series in warhammer

[sage gale]

Now that is a hot take

[meager trench]

Well, you haven't read much right, so hard to judge

But yeah I like the series as well, a good spiritual successor to TBA

[summer beacon]

whats up yall, was wondering how to start 40k

i have a free audiobook was wondering which one to pick

i kinda have a big picture of whats going

and im most familiar with the imperium and space marines, kinda wanna look into the sororitas

also i hear 40k has a horror series if theres any i should look out for

[sage gale]

Theres a few links here but to give you my opinions

Eisenhorn is a good start, but doesn't really do 40k super well

Its basically a crime story with a bit of 40k flavor

making it easy to get in too

and it is a very good novel

The infinite and the divine requires a bit more lore knowledge but is distinctly very warhammer, and is quite a fun read

Caiphas cain is also really, really good

and IMO does 40k pretty well, but is still fairly aporachable

[sage gale]

There is warhammer horror

it's a subgenre on black library

https://www.blacklibrary.com/

Black library is the 40k novels

Keeping up with the new lore
the dawn of fire series is quite rad
and i'm partial to watchers of the throne

[summer beacon]

thanks for you recs will def check them out

[sage gale]

If you like sisters of battle

[summer beacon]

im assuming most of the stories are from the imperium pov?

[sage gale]

the vast majority yes

[summer beacon]

listeningggg

i kinda have a big picture on the age of apostese?

dunno how to spell

[sage gale]

The book of martyrs is a really good anthology

[sage gale]

apostasy

theres also a audio drama

[summer beacon]

awesome ill check it

[sage gale]

the name ecsapes me but i'm sure you could find it on audible

its pretty good and features a custodian form the age of apostasy

but

you have to put up with greyfax being the main character

which is a definite negative

[summer beacon]

is that the guy who became leader of the government and the chruch?

[sage gale]

no

Inquisitor greyfax is an inquisitor of the ordo hereticus

(also from the age of apostasy, but shes weird, and is also a very meh character)

[summer beacon]

ah well kinda perfect from darktide i guess

[sage gale]

Inquisitor Greyfax is very much the "memehammer" inquisitor

[summer beacon]

lul

[sage gale]

I personally don't like her

and couldnt get thru the audiodrama

[summer beacon]

cool cool cool

[sage gale]

book of martyrs is a good anthology tho

would reccomend

[summer beacon]

ill start here and work my way out

is that the sisters of battle one

[sage gale]

also, do note an audiodrama isn't like an audiobook

[sage gale]

yes

[summer beacon]

ahh...

the audio drama is what has the production in it?

im guessing, its what drew me in

[sage gale]

its an audioplay

so rather than describing a scene with words

your given alot of sounds

and people tend to give an aggressive amount of exposition

[summer beacon]

sec i queued

[sage gale]

?

[summer beacon]

for darktide

[sage gale]

ah yeah

[summer beacon]

so yeah im gonna check out book of martyrs

soroitas are super cool

thanks mang

[deft temple]

Anyone read the Space Wolf omnibus? My first read and it is just plain good

Leans a little too heavy on Norse or Viking style characterizations of the Space Wolves, but its great.

[slow pilot]

there is an hour long audio short story called "a way out" you should look up

[summer beacon]

is that the one with a navigator who leads everyone to their doom with the eldritch horror at the end, then repeats the process with the vet?

cause thats the reason why i was looking for horror

super dead space vibes

[slow pilot]

ya

[summer beacon]

liked it a lot

theres a lore youtube guy who went over the whole story

[slow pilot]

i called the ending in the first 15 min but it was a good story

[summer beacon]

lul

[slow pilot]

the way it was acted and they added the sound effects of everything was great

it was like one of those things they did on the radio

[stable sphinx]

Did the book club cosmetic drop yet?

[slow pilot]

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/black-eyed-saint-pb-eng-2023

this looks good

[drowsy urchin]

https://www.trackofwords.com/2023/03/04/rapid-fire-dan-abnett-talks-the-end-and-the-death-volume-1/

[slow pilot]

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/searchResults?N=3933563954+3173267427

only 2 days left to order

[slow pilot]

do you think they will ever have a seige of tera box set

[meager trench]

some kind of collection of the siege of terra, i'd expect it. exorbitantly expensive as well

place your bets now as to how much you think it'll cost

[slow pilot]

300

i wrote down all hte names of the characters in dawn of fire so i wouldent lose track and my dog at it

need to go through and write them all down again

cant get mad at that face

[sage gale]

Isnt it already written down in thr dramatus personae

[main plover]

i enjoyed the last SoT book and tbh im gonna look forward what would the next volume would be about but kinda obvious itll be the last in the SoT series

[wicked tree]

Iirc they stated 8 novels for the SoT mini series

[main plover]

well i guess volume 2 of the end and the death still counts as one book just in two parts, since its obvious we would get a 2nd volume anyway since they announced it i think last year

[slow pilot]

i write notes as i read

[sage gale]

Ahhh

[slow pilot]

if i need to remember something i just look over

only do that for books with a lot of characters

[sage gale]

Makes sense

I jsut read it all in one sitting and then look up a synopsis for whatever I missed lmao

(this is not a good way to do it)

[quiet yew]

The Horus Heresy books are cool but the only two good covers are for Horus Rising and Know No Fear

The monochrome art inserts are cool but bland

I know Black Library makes up for only 1% of GW's yearly profits but surely they could have spent some of those $2 million pounds on giving the visual arts some love?

[sage gale]

Monochrome art inserts?

oh the

ones in the ahrdbacks nevermind

[sage gale]

I dunno, all of the SoT ones are really good

Alos I feel like alot more of the covers are good than those two

I actually didn't like horus risings TBH

The first 3 books all had the exact same cover

Overcrowded marines in indescript battlefield fighting something uncertain

[quiet yew]

Well I don't know about book 2 and 3 but I found book 1's cover to be cool

The marines look thick and meaty and girded with steel

and look just different enough from 40k marines to show you that it's a different era

I liked Guilliman punching Word Bearers in Know no Fear's cover

[sage gale]

They also completely redid horus risings cover

as well as a few of the other early heresy books

[quiet yew]

And I'm pretty sure that the Imperial Fists boarding action is another cover? But I don't know what book its for

[sage gale]

later on

[quiet yew]

That looks like a mid-20th century sci fi cover

I don't know if I like it or not

Anyway what I really wanted to say was

[sage gale]

this one

[quiet yew]

The book covers for the End and the Death novels are both pretty lame

[sage gale]

Spicy take

[quiet yew]

Conceptually they're cool - the Emperor on His Throne, and Horus fighting Sang

BUT

[quiet yew]

I don't think the artist did those two concepts justice

[sage gale]

are you seriously telling me marine meatfest is a better cover than this

[quiet yew]

Yes because both Horus and Sang look silly in that picture

[sage gale]

Thats a spicy take

i'll give you that

that takes fuckin

Caliente

[quiet yew]

We do not lack for great art of Horus and Sang

[sage gale]

Yeah

but why not more

[quiet yew]

Exactly

[sage gale]

Also this image is absolute dated and could not at all be used for the cover lmao

[quiet yew]

The book covers don't do the end of the HH saga justice

[sage gale]

this cover is nice

I like this cover

[quiet yew]

Honestly I'd rather have seen this one

It'd come full circle

Old art to finish an old book series

[sage gale]

If it were an updated art sure

[quiet yew]

Also one of the most recognizable artworks for 40k

Failing that, I don't know - maybe just a better cover than what we have

I'll still read the books but when I saw the Emperor for TEaTD volume 1's cover I was like

"Holy 1990's computer generated graphics Batman"

[sage gale]

It was good imo

the golden throne was such a huge part of that novel from start to finish

[quiet yew]

I think the concept of it is appropriate yeah

I just wish they got a different (better) artist to do it

[sage gale]

Its the same artist lmao

all the HH books have been done by the exact same guy

like

99% of the novels art is done by the exact same guy

His name is Niel Roberts

[quiet yew]

Yes and age is either getting to him or he's getting lazy

[sage gale]

I disagree TBH

I agree that some of his covers aren't the best

But i also feel your not giving him enough credit

especially syaing the only two good cover arts are Horus rising and know no fear

My man is going to sit here and tell met hat horus rising had better cover art than fear to tred

[quiet yew]

I checked out his art station

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Qn6Wzx

He's actually really capable

now I'm just confused

[sage gale]

I think your cover art opinions are bad

Specifically your one about horus rising being one of HH's best covers

[quiet yew]

I think my cover art opinions are good

[sage gale]

well stop that

and think better

lol

[quiet yew]

If he can do this

Why did he do this?

Tomato horus

And his +3 mace of lighting (uncommon)

[sage gale]

I agree his face is a little goofy

but I liek the rest of the cover over all

[quiet yew]

Well I guess it's deliberate

He's clearly been keeping the same art style for all of HH

[sage gale]

yeah

[quiet yew]

Either way, and regardless of my cover art opinions

I'm still looking forward to volume 2

I hope the Emperor crushes Horus

[sage gale]

Man

so long as the stupid sanguinius thing people keep circle jerking about doesn't happen

i'll be happy

[quiet yew]

You mean the theory that Sang killed Horus and then turned on the Emperor?

[sage gale]

ye

[quiet yew]

That theory is silly yeah

[sage gale]

It would be such a cheap trick to pull

and would really just feel shallow

It's also dumb ebcause why TF would big E have to put his ass down, he let fucking angron live with the nails

[main plover]

lol that will be a bad twist tbh, i rather have it that Sanguinius became overwhelmed by the red thirst suddenly when fighting Horus, but still Horus managed to kill him- which explains why Horus got his suit broken due to Sanguinius' ferocity

[dusk vortex]

I have lots of work to do this coming 2 weeks

what are the quintesntial Siege Of Terra Books to listen to before starting The End

[slow pilot]

did Belisarius Cawl make the ultramarines

[wicked tree]

What do you mean by that?

[slow pilot]

i forget what guy made them

who did gilliman have make the new space marines

the one who yoinked the kids

[wicked tree]

Yeah Cawl, but they're primaris. The Ultramarines are a former legion now first founding chapter

[slow pilot]

just wanted to make sure he was the one

there is a book about him i want to pick up