40k-lore-chat

[storm jungle]

LMAO yeah

its just locked down for no reason

[cunning wigeon]

ahh okay

shows how much attention I pay to that channel

[storm jungle]

iirc Hedge said it was gonna be retired since this is a Memetide server

[shadow plover]

I had that channel muted the moment I joined this server

[storm jungle]

maenwhile off-topic is locked because uh

idk

[cunning wigeon]

fair enough

[cunning wigeon]

based

[storm jungle]

Honestly it was fine.

Minus like some 4chan dude shoving modern military shit in there

[woven sandal]

I kinda wanna make a set of M3 based Leman Russes if I ever made a 40k army.

[shadow plover]

because knowing 40k fans mixed with military/history buffs will not mix

[storm jungle]

This is a certified Wehrmacht Moment

[shadow plover]

😩

[cunning wigeon]

nah 40k needs more janky british tanks

[woven sandal]

With a sponson mounted main gun instead of a bunch of sponson mounted bolters.

[cunning wigeon]

the ones that should barely fucking work

[shadow plover]

certified bri'ish moment

[cunning wigeon]

britain do be the senile grandpa of the world

[woven sandal]

Look at this beast of a tank and tell me it isn't janky.

[shadow plover]

I'm on a server where someone sculpted and printed american inspired 40k tanks, those were really cool when often ideas like that fall really short

[cunning wigeon]

haha I always thought it was unfair that kreigers have to be associated with 'those' people but at the same time you're kinda asking for it with that aesthetic

[scenic bolt]

you almost have to lead with the disclaimer

[cunning wigeon]

im not racist but?

or an actual one lol

[plush mason]

eh the original M1 used a 105 rifled barrel. ofc i dont think it had SABOT rounds

[woven sandal]

The original M1 is also a 42 year old tank design.

[cunning wigeon]

"listen, I just like gas masks and trench apparel okay?"

[scenic bolt]

couldve had doughboy kriegers

[plush mason]

that is true lol

[woven sandal]

There's as much time between the first M1 and today as there was between the start of WW2 and the first M1.

[shadow plover]

found the pics

[plush mason]

the fact the doughboy is a literal medieval design is crazy to me

[storm jungle]

yeah ngl

this is like

a lot more fallout

[barren tapir]

Roane Deepers

[shadow plover]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/900318377027969044/976133110158741565/20220517_014115.jpg

[storm jungle]

than 40k

[cunning wigeon]

its the weird nuclear age roundness i think

[shadow plover]

well it's the round american tank design philosophy

makes it look retro

[cunning wigeon]

everything had to be round

[woven sandal]

This was the cutting edge of tank design 42 years before the first M1.

[cunning wigeon]

tbf as far as wars go ww1 was pretty medieval lol

[plush mason]

yeah true

[woven sandal]

I wouldn't really want to use like mid war and late war US tanks as the design basis. I'd use interwar tanks as the basis. Like, the latest I'd go is the Lee and maybe a literal carbon copy Sherman.

[plush mason]

if only GW had opted for this helmet for the DKOK

[woven sandal]

I present to you late interwar US tank design.

[shadow plover]

The Russ variant is very Sherman

[woven sandal]

There's 4 of those sponsons on that tank BTW.

[plush mason]

the lee. or Grant if its for the brits lol

[woven sandal]

That's an M2 Medium.

[plush mason]

yes its name was the Lee after general Lee

[shadow plover]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/900318377027969044/958496394568695808/20220329_174106.jpg

[woven sandal]

No, the Lee was the M3 Medium.

[plush mason]

oh right lol

[woven sandal]

I'm pretty sure that's actually a Sherman model modified to have some Russ like qualities.

Like, it's got the lifting hooks on the Transmission cover.

Which no 40k model would ever have. It's not a detail GW designers would care about.

[shadow plover]

Well it was sculpted from the ground up by him but obviously he took every design cue from the actual real life tank

[woven sandal]

I guess that makes sense. I'm kinda surprised there's not more inspiration taken from those insane multi-turreted interwar designs.

Don't talk to me or my son ever again.

[shadow plover]

by him or in general in 40k?

[woven sandal]

In 40k in general.

[shadow plover]

Pretty sure some ork designs have multiturrets

[woven sandal]

You put bolters in the tiny turret and replace the top turret with a Russ turret and it's a 40k tank.

[scenic bolt]

baneblades are just super russes

casemate and everything

[serene eagle]

girls like hugo boss and its ok

I like hugo boss and everyone loses their minds

I wish GeeDubs would use more WW2 tanks in their designs

The sherman and churchill are very rad

[storm jungle]

We'll see what the new Rogal Dorn tank is like

[barren tapir]

If it is not brick shaped can we really call it rogal dorn?

And even if it is i will still not call it rogal dorn...

Fuck the primarchs

Name it like a true hero, Lukas Bastonne tank

[final spruce]

Whomst ?

[barren tapir]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lukas_Bastonne

Fucking GW let him die

FFS

[final spruce]

That was a joke because Lukas is not relevant at all

[barren tapir]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Zher, that is not a based take

Lukas was on par with Creed imo

And having it still alive wold have been better

[rose thorn]

What was that gsc that lived on a planet that has no sun?

That sounds like such a fucking easy gsc to paint

All you do is spray black and only paint where the light affect would be on the model

‘Behold, my acolytes’

[storm jungle]

LMFAO

That killed me holy hell

[rose thorn]

Lmao

Thank you

[storm jungle]

[smoky mauve]

Paint in stuart semples blackest black paint, zenithal highlighr in white. Done lmao

[cinder sphinx]

remember to mix in some phthalo blue. for the sake of it.

[abstract zealot]

There is something I have been wondering about for awhile. You know the character named Slan from Berserk? They seem to be exactly the same as Slaanesh, even the name is essentially the same. Is one of them inspired by the other?

[storm jungle]

Its most likely a giant coincidence but we can never really know

its the same as how Griffith is literally Fulgrim

• Same color scheme
• Same hair color
• Same bird-like crest on one shoulder
• Same obsession with perfection/power
• Same betrayal of his close friends to attain demonhood

etc etc

[rose thorn]

If you could have any black library book rewritten, which one would it be and why

[alpine ingot]

That also implies Ferrus is Guts, and that is a tad bit insulting to Guts because he actually has character.

[storm jungle]

LMFAO

JESUS THAT JAB

||its sad because its true||

[alpine ingot]

Ferrus was relevant for like maybe a third of the book at best, and then the rest of the HH his legions whole thing is "bloooood feuuuuud!"

[abstract zealot]

I was guessing that Guts would be a traumatized guardsman that keeps surviving and no one knows how

[plush mason]

pure bad luck

[alpine ingot]

Guts is the founder of the Lamenters if anything

[grand minnow]

Im curious, you guys think the votann are gonna basicaly be tau v2 lore wise? or you think they might have some grey to their morality?
I dont mind either way, but so far there seems to be nothing messed up that they do/ did
(moved from theory crafting cause i think this channel fits it better)

[lyric ember]

idk, currently from what i see it just seems like

tau but scottish, on the imperiums side, not "communist" and not long ranged, with a vendetta against orks and eldar probably

[final spruce]

So far they do seem Tau 2.0 but Imperium yeah, since their only "fault" is them being slow to take decisions

Which isn't bad since they ruined the Tau's noblebright aspect

[storm jungle]

They are already looking pretty good. Its important to remember though that warhammer community is pretty shit at giving away lore fragments since its all marketing talk

I like them having noble aspects since its a pretty nice change of pace but I still gotta see more

Yeeee

im sure they'll give the votann some darker aspects

though I dont really expect it to be probably super heavy grimdark

YEP

but the best you can do with space dwarves is like Warhammer Fantasy where they are a tough crowd and dont give a shit about other races half the time so just stick to their own business/trade etc

They are looking way too nice so I expect some dark stuff at some point

Them having robot soldiers and helpers that are fully aware of their intelligence is great

Men of Rock and Stone more like

[upbeat saddle]

Slap a warhammer logo on it and bam

[storm jungle]

Yeah i feel like WarCom is making it sound a lot more "positive" for marketing purposes

in-lore that shit sounds like hell lmao

[upbeat saddle]

Martin Freeman better be careful with who he associates himself with in the future

[scenic bolt]

everyone's the hero in their own codex

[storm jungle]

I mean thats a codex

WarCom makes everything goofy and dumb

in the Horus Heresy posts they literally use outdated grimdank memes

[upbeat saddle]

Necron codex 👀

[rose thorn]

Is it just me or is it weird CSMs is getting an over time escalating buff system like drukhari?

[atomic pelican]

Well, its not really like Drukhari since its not cumulative

Its moreso just the CSM version of SM doctrines

[rose thorn]

Ahhh Ight

[granite gull]

question

are there psykers in the astra militarum

[final spruce]

Yes

You have multiple kinds too

[granite gull]

oh

[final spruce]

They got astropaths to navigate the ships and help the generals foresee the future, you got primaris psykers that are an actual force and, in some regiments like Cadia they can even be officers

[granite gull]

think theres psykers in the kriegsmen?

[final spruce]

And they got wyrdvane psykers, small fry psykers that need to be together to cast a spell, but they are expendable as they are quite weak and a bit unstable

They most likely have all 3 psykers amongst their regiment

[granite gull]

hm

[final spruce]

But I don't know the lore of krieg nor do I care for it so I might be wrong on that

[wind flicker]

Yeah but they look like nazi wizards from wolfenstein

[granite gull]

[wind flicker]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/74/22/8a/74228a92ee526fc30f001adabc0a780e.jpg

[granite gull]

oh

[wind flicker]

This but more

Psykery

[storm jungle]

Psykers are "attached" to regiments and are an outside unit

imperial guard regiments dont have their own psykers and if any pops up they gotta give them away to black ships

[scenic bolt]

They’re similar recruitment to commissars/scions

They all filter out of a central imperial org, and then disbursed to wherever the imperium thinks they should go

[granite gull]

hm

[vapid tiger]

It's like how krieg commissars aren't actual kriegers

Or how cain is not a valhallan

Or how gaunt is not from tanith

But with sanctioned psykers instead of commissars

[granite gull]

interesting

[crisp orbit]

yo is there a video that explains the different types of weapons different factions and units use in the wh40k universe

ive seen some introduction videos explaining about the factions but im reading dan abnett's book series gaunt's ghosts and often he mentions different kinds of weapons, vehicles and ships, but i have no idea what hes talking about

[wind flicker]

Imperium or overall

[crisp orbit]

i think start with imperium cause its relevant to darktide players' weapons

i mean we are imperium in darktide right?

[wind flicker]

Yes

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbPlvqVBKyJ5chvM7RT5tVb3cGkIHiIVh

[crisp orbit]

lasgunz or whatever

[wind flicker]

This should be ok

[crisp orbit]

thanks

[wind flicker]

Covers most of the guns in dt

Lemme skim it rq to make sure it's not garbage

If you can stand their voice the info is good

[crisp orbit]

lol

its too much lol

its like lasgun encyclopedia

id probably be cool with a third or a quarter of that information

whats its name, what it looks like, what its used for and by whom, next

basically the way to watch his video is skip the 1st minute, watch around 1-5 min and move on to the next video

[vapid tiger]

https://twitter.com/El_Jackinton/status/1538485019043409922?t=k5JNGadJ5ANEwFHmIOq3Vw&s=19

Jack Harvey (@El_Jackinton)

So that paragraph Games Workshop put out about how only males can be Space Marines caused quite a stir huh? So here we go: Why GW decided all Marines had to be male. Why that's not inherently a bad idea. Why people want female Marines. Why the discussion matters. Thread:

Likes

395

Twitter · Jun 19, 2022, 11:33 AM

Good thread

This is why gw should either make female marines canon OR even better actually acknowledge the homoerotic aspects of "warrior brotherhood" societies

[upbeat saddle]

you pick it up over time tbh you can't just read about all of it, you gotta play some 40k games or something

I mean you can read about all of it but

v i s u a l learning

[rose thorn]

Well the thing was, there use to be female space marines, but they didn’t sell well, so they made them into their own thing called sisters of battle. And even people like me, who hate the imperium, adore, they are so unique, dark, and over all amazingly written and designed that female space marines would be redundant.

Also gay marines are great

Honestly I’m jealous chaos doenst have an equivalence

[vapid tiger]

That's what the thread says

[rose thorn]

Ah

I didn’t know that

YAYYyyy I’m not the idiot this time

[wind flicker]

Sisters of battle are better then space marines anyway

[rose thorn]

Yes

I think the miracles are kinda dumb. But besides that they is literally nothing wrong with them

They can bring such amazing stories and designs

Hell I want to make a sisters of battle knight

[upbeat saddle]

Majority of the homies are castrated I feel for them

Anyone is better than space marines if we’re talking about character interest lol

They’re very one dimensional

[rose thorn]

Yeah, I think space marines are so over expanded on in the lore there’s no like, way to make them interesting

Why do you fight

4 responses

‘My dad/god’
‘The imperium’
‘BLOOD MURDER AHSHEHSHGSUEJE’
‘Glory.’

[jaunty bobcat]

i mean, it is a Grimdark depiction of someone that was bred for war, and isnt allowed to have a personality X)

Also, Question. i havnt been up to date on lore

but my Boy lion

[upbeat saddle]

They have the personality of an intelligent assault rifle

Purposefully

[rose thorn]

Counter argument

Chaos Is 100 times more interesting

[jaunty bobcat]

Has anything been revealed about his whereabouts?

[rose thorn]

And have alor more depth

[rose thorn]

The lion?

[jaunty bobcat]

they get to be more interesting because they dont follow a set of rules, Its well... CHAOS

[rose thorn]

Comatose

[jaunty bobcat]

hm

So hes alive

[rose thorn]

Kinda

[jaunty bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-dance-boy-gif-23762739

[rose thorn]

I don’t count being in a coma for 10k years alive

[jaunty bobcat]

So basically, sleeping until the writers decide to do something with him?

[rose thorn]

And his legion have been on wild goose chases for any rumor of anytning that can wake him up

And hunting down and killing as much fallen as possible

[jaunty bobcat]

oo, dope. il take a look at the current stuff

[lyric ember]

They put lifealert out of business

[rose thorn]

Lmao

[lyric ember]

"Help ive fallen and i- "
bolter shot

[jaunty bobcat]

i read a few DA stuff for HH

[rose thorn]

Well, not really,

Word bearers have had some amazing character and are extremely organized

Really the lesser organized legions (besides night lords) aren’t as interesting

I mean world eaters are getting a lot more lore

But iron warriors are kinda lacking in the character department

[jaunty bobcat]

For better wording, i think Space marines are kinda stuck into Bland archetypes of personality.

While chaos can be expanded with more ease

So writers are kinda more inclined to give better stuff to chaos

[rose thorn]

With exception of fabius emperors children have zero characters

[rose thorn]

Yeah, it sucks a lot

[jaunty bobcat]

i mean, it is what it is

[rose thorn]

I wish there was more, alternative motivations and more other angles with space marines

[jaunty bobcat]

Thats heresy X)

(kinda why i think they maintain the Status quo of being bland)

While mostly the primarchs are where all the personality resides

[rose thorn]

But it’s weird because other loyalists don’t struggle with that

[jaunty bobcat]

since they get to actually do what they want

[rose thorn]

Imperial guard brim with personality

Even cadians

[jaunty bobcat]

they arnt jaded superhumans though

[rose thorn]

Hell imperial knights

[jaunty bobcat]

They still maintain the biggest aspect of their humanity

Which is fear, a inherent weakness

[rose thorn]

It’s ENCOURAGED you give each of your knights personality and flavor

[jaunty bobcat]

Space marines were just made to be, No fucks given.. get this done kinda mindset bred for war superhuman

[rose thorn]

But

Space marines a

Are space marines

[jaunty bobcat]

Imperial guard are just regular people

[lyric ember]

Mechanicus have more personality than space marines ironically

[rose thorn]

ITS FUCKING CRAZY

Death watch are cool at least

[jaunty bobcat]

yeah, but like i said. Its a reality we kinda gotta accept as fanboys of 40k lol. its a status quo

[rose thorn]

Because it’s ‘we fucking HATE ALIENS’

Not ‘we hate enemies of the imperium.’

[lyric ember]

I like the exorcists

[rose thorn]

‘Alien heresyyyyYy….’

[lyric ember]

Not brimming with personality but they're dope

[rose thorn]

Oh yeah don’t they get their own allies possessed?

[lyric ember]

They have their recruits possessed and then exorcised by an inquisitor

They have 3 scout companies instead of 1 as well i think

[jaunty bobcat]

everyone stands out, which is dope

[lyric ember]

Cause a lot of their recruits die

[rose thorn]

Lamenters are great because it’s always a losing battle, and they aid people out of a reason of self doubt. Their angle is that they think they can’t save them selves.

[jaunty bobcat]

since each marine comes from different backgrounds, and legions

[rose thorn]

So they aid others

[rose thorn]

Oh yeah

Definitely

Actually most of the cursed founding is great

[lyric ember]

Wasnt there a lamenter dreadnought in the deathwatch that thought he was the last of his chapter?

[jaunty bobcat]

so you kinda get the ideia of each one representing their specific Marine legion

[rose thorn]

OH YEAHhhH

I think so actually

[lyric ember]

That shit is depressing

[rose thorn]

Sounds right

[lyric ember]

Like when you really think about it

The LAST of his chapter

And he's a dreadnought too so he probably cant make more

[rose thorn]

I think it was captain or something

[lyric ember]

Very existential

I kinda wish the lamenters were dead and gone

[rose thorn]

Meh they are a bit too iconic

[lyric ember]

But like died on a high note

[rose thorn]

A lot of people like them, including me

Plus prolonged suffering

There’s. A story where a bunch of them just gave up

And while fighting (tryanids i think) alot of them just got on a knee to accept their death, and I think only one survived because the nids ran past him or something

[lyric ember]

Wut

[rose thorn]

Don’t quote me

[lyric ember]

Why would they do that

I know gw has weird writing so i cant tell if you're accidentally lying

[rose thorn]

I think he thought it was a blessing and that their legion must keep going?

[lyric ember]

God thats masochistic

[rose thorn]

Yeah

Side note

Anyone know the black suns space marines, I found it on a list of space marine chapters but can’t find anything on them

I think it might just be one of those, by name only chapters

From@that fucking lost GW dropped a while back

Cracking our da wiki

Yeah they might not even exist lmao

[lyric ember]

Black hole sun, wont ya come, and wash away the rain! Black hole sun, wont you come, wont you comeeeeee!

[shadow plover]

I hope that's not a real chapter 😬

[lyric ember]

Whys that?

[shadow plover]

black sun is a nazi symbol

[rose thorn]

Ahhhhh

[lyric ember]

Ah

[rose thorn]

Here’s where I found it on Pinterest

[crisp heath]

They got drip tho

[rose thorn]

I KNOW ITS SO SAD

[lyric ember]

Do they have a reddit upvote on their shoulder

[shadow plover]

could very well be a homebrew

[rose thorn]

True

[lyric ember]

I thought the blood reavers were the blood beavers

Very confused for a moment

[rose thorn]

So did I Lmao

[atomic pelican]

When we lock blades with the Space Marines of loyal Chapters, and they pour scorn upon us for a bitterness that has lasted ten thousand years. When we have little idea which thin-blooded newborn conclave of hypno-indoctrinated soldiers is hurling itself against us with oaths the Emperor Himself would have found insane.

I thought youd find this funny FBDBD

[rose thorn]

HAHSHSHSHEVAHAHZHEHEH

PLEASE TELL ME WHO SAID THIS

[atomic pelican]

Ishkandar Khayon of the Black Legion

[rose thorn]

AHAHAAHAH

[atomic pelican]

One of the members of the ezekarion

When the Legions left the eye. They didnt rlly know what had happened to the loyalist legions

They only figured out what a Black templar was after eating a brain

[real stone]

a chad

[atomic pelican]

They knew abt their origins of course

Hes great

[shadow plover]

black legion books are great

still waiting for the third

[atomic pelican]

Oh yeah, all the characters are amazing

[atomic pelican]

Basically LMAO

The first Black crusade pretty much wrecked realspace, funny enough the Legion was expecting heavy resistance but the Imperium had p much just tried to pretend they didnt exist

[rose thorn]

Y’all know you have an issue when the people who were literally born to form cults from super insect aliens are less fanatical then you

[atomic pelican]

They find a Black templar because they had jumped directly into the Eye on a 'crusade after traitors'

Went abt as well as youd expect

[rose thorn]

Man I want to meet an imperium fan and just ask

‘How’

[atomic pelican]

Ripped apart by daemons and on a husk ship

[rose thorn]

Specially space marines

I tried, I tried really hard to like loyal space marines

But something just doesn’t sit right

[atomic pelican]

Its because everything loyalist SM do, CSM can do with more personality

[real stone]

The imperium is a cool idea, I am a fan of that idea. Will I ever go so far as to say that they're the "good guys" or that I'd ever want to live in the imperium even in a place of power? Fuck no.

[rose thorn]

Lmao probably

[rose thorn]

I get it, I think most of the imperium is metal as fuck, but what’s so interesting about space marines?

Unless it’s a specific character

I can’t understand

[crisp heath]

I like the imperium for the guard

[shadow plover]

potato represents the depth of the marines

[rose thorn]

Lmao

[shadow plover]

but I enjoy them quite a bit

[rose thorn]

Ye I haven’t met someone who doesn’t like guard

[shadow plover]

(I don't like the guard)

[crisp heath]

Big dudes with big weapons fuck shit up simple as

[atomic pelican]

There is a very simple like of big men in armor

I also dont rlly like guard

[rose thorn]

Any specific?

Oh

[atomic pelican]

Beyond being cannonfodder for xenos or csm

[rose thorn]

Well

2 ppl

[shadow plover]

guard for me is the boring human faction with nothing interesting going on for them, just like the empire in Fantasy

[atomic pelican]

I still wish that Abaddon had crunched Creed in whole

But taking a arm is poetic enough

[shadow plover]

choosing the normal human faction in a fantasy/sci-fi setting is always boring to me

[rose thorn]

If you like cities of sigmar then you would probably like guard

[atomic pelican]

I like Cities but not guard tbh

[rose thorn]

Fair

[crisp heath]

Yea any fantasy game I just play as a human with a 2 handed weapon

[atomic pelican]

Cities is alot more wholesome since it feels more plucky

With all different peoples

[rose thorn]

I adore tallarn desert raiders

[atomic pelican]

Fuckin Orkz can be Free city civilians

Its great

[rose thorn]

In AOS?

[atomic pelican]

Yes

[rose thorn]

I never knew that

That’s super fuckinh cool lmao

[atomic pelican]

There are gobbo traders welcomed in skyports too!

Dwarf skyports

[shadow plover]

ye Cities is pretty nifty

though I don't know too much about them

[rose thorn]

I really like cities, I’d probably really like them on table top too because

‘Man I’m bored of painting little men… WELP time to paint tanks and dragons’

[atomic pelican]

Cities have an actual sense of heroism, Guard are sympathetic, but are ultimately fools dying in the name of a corpse

[rose thorn]

‘Oh wow I’m out of blue, we’ll congrats you are green now’

[atomic pelican]

Also Im tired of WW1 lit and I think theres so much WW1 inspired litersture and media that its a poisonous smog

[rose thorn]

I really like Tallarn desert raiders

[signal hill]

For most factions it's more or less obvious, but did the eldari (craftworld, exodite) >recently< commit any atrocities/warcrimes that make them 'not the good guys' ?

[signal hill]

I feel Like that about WW2, especially with Video games

[atomic pelican]

Probably on the better end, but theyre isolationists who willingly manipulate others to their dooms if it means saving themselves

Theyre def on the lighter side

[atomic pelican]

Same

It also depends wildly on the craftworld

Biel Tan is probably the most evil of the CWs

Or perhaps Lugganath, who allies directly with corsairs

[signal hill]

Kind of what i figured, but I Like that my Hypothesis is true :P

[atomic pelican]

Yus

Theyre sort of too isolationist to rlly do loads of evil

[signal hill]

That's fair

[rose thorn]

Hey what was that GSC that live on sunless planets?

[signal hill]

I kinda Hope for one craftworld allying with the farsight enclave, but some fanboys would probably Scream about them beeing to friendly of an alliance xD

[atomic pelican]

Theres always the chance a random CWE bladewind shows up from the webway to slaughter a civilian populace to save their skin in the future bt some skein of fate

But its ultimately for their own survival, not wanton slaughter or debauchery

[signal hill]

Cwe?

[atomic pelican]

And they feel guilt about it

Yeee

Craftworld Eldar

[signal hill]

I mean, ensuring the own survival isnat least somewhat reasonably

[atomic pelican]

Yee exactly

[crisp heath]

I feel like everyone is fighting for their survival in 40k

[atomic pelican]

Well, to varying degrees

[signal hill]

Orcs Fight for fun :P

[atomic pelican]

The Imperium can lose 40 planets and still be fine

Trillions of himans

[rose thorn]

Oh yeha they have like

[atomic pelican]

One dead major craftworld could spell the end of them

[rose thorn]

A million planets

Imperium

I honestly hate the imperium had a million planets lmao

[lyric ember]

Reminds me, wasnt there some craftworld that got buttfucked by nids and deathwatch proceeded to also get buttfucked by said nids

[crisp heath]

I mean they basically own majority of the Galaxy so it makes since

[atomic pelican]

Iyanden I think

Never hesrd abt Deathwatch involvement tho

Iyanden is thr only CW I remember being hit by nids

[signal hill]

If anything they got their Butts eaten :p

[lyric ember]

I was reading about deathwarch fortresses a while back and it said something about that

[atomic pelican]

Couldve been a minor CW, I wouldnt know in that case

[lyric ember]

Didnt know there were minor ones

[atomic pelican]

Oh yeah theres 10s of Craftworlds in the galaxy

Just most of them just.. float and survive

[lyric ember]

Tbh i thought there were like

5

[crisp heath]

There should be 0

[atomic pelican]

Nah, theres.. 6(?) Major ones, like 8 named minor ones, and likely several more

Iyanden, Biel Tan, Alaitoc, Ulthwe , Saim Hann

5 major ones

[lyric ember]

Wow

[atomic pelican]

I can only remember a few minor ones

Uhh, Lugganath.. and..

I forget

[signal hill]

Which was the Dow one again?

[atomic pelican]

Depends on the game

Iirc Biel Tan in the first

Ulthwe in soulstorm

If its green, biel tan

Black ulthwe

Actually it mightve been all Ulthwe

They tend to be the spotlight so

[lyric ember]

Whats your favorite craftworld

[signal hill]

Probably
Funny how they needed a custom chapter but a Mainline cw

[atomic pelican]

Probably Biel Tan

I like green and they focus on Aspect warriors

Theyre also wildly xenophobic. And I find a tinge of ironic comedy in Biel Tan reaping the same 'get off this maiden world or we extinguish you' warning, much the same as the Imperium would to minor xenos in the Great Crusade

Then, not being taken srsly and the planet being wiped of humanity

Apparently they also made good friends with Tallarn somehow

Iirc a mutual respect of warriors

Biel Tan and Iyanden are also big reasons Necrons and Daemons didnt eat the galaxy postfall. Stomping skele grandpa in his grave, and killing daemonic incursions

[lyric ember]

Does stygies specifically like eldar tech or do they want to fuck every races toasters

[atomic pelican]

I think its everyones LMAO

[lyric ember]

I know in the mechanicus game scaevola (best waifu) was really grabby with necron shit

[atomic pelican]

Just Eldar are one of the few named xenos with tech worth seeking

Im sure they love all sorts of stuff they can get

[lyric ember]

I wonder how every race makes their toasters

And how they would be functionally different

Like tau shit would use plasma and ai to make toast instantly without burning it

[crisp heath]

I want chaos toast

[atomic pelican]

Chaos toast is just imperial toast extra spiky

Yum!

[crisp heath]

Mmmmm spiky

[lyric ember]

Orks would barely work half the time as always, and their toast is arguably pretty ass when it does come out

Eldar probably have the best toast but it'd be the hardest to get, their toasters would just be super eldar in design idk enough about them to make a guess

Mechanicus toasters would be well oiled 👀

Imp guard toasters would just be like

Normal toasters

They work

They're alright

Space marine toasters dont exist

[atomic pelican]

Their armor does it

[lyric ember]

Drukhari toasters use the flesh of their enemies and are actually just a controlled burn of a pile of people

Like a campfire with a spit

[signal hill]

On one Hand as engineer i tend to say 'thats bullshit and not how physics works' in the other Hand i remember that we Deal with gw, so ...who knows?

But you better don't invent an Toaster in an imperial world or you will get flayed for Tech heresy or something

[lyric ember]

Nids dont eat toast

[signal hill]

Well, if they find it

[lyric ember]

Yeah

They dont make toast

I suppose

Wait fuck is that everyone

[crisp heath]

They evolve to have a toaster on them

[lyric ember]

Tau orks eldar drukhari humans nids

Necrons

Uhhh

Idk

I dont know anything about necrons

[crisp heath]

Giant pyramid toaster

[lyric ember]

Sure

[crisp heath]

Shoots green laser to toast

[upbeat saddle]

Sounds about right

[crisp heath]

Trazyn has a museum full of toasters

[lyric ember]

Lemme see

Minor xenos

Uhh

Hrud

Manipulate time so that bread is eventually toast

I guess

Uhh

The fucking maggot men

Cant remember their name

They scare me, no toasters for them actually

The dog traders from the (korunus expanse i think?)

Various races toasters mostly

[crisp heath]

Xenos like the maggot men make me a proud Imperium enjoyer

[upbeat saddle]

tomb guard are so badass

such a cool necron unit

[signal hill]

Sororitas Toaster has a weaponizable rosary and a purity Mark attached to it

But besides that is a fancy normal toaster

[plush mason]

so any other inter chapter feuds among the loyalist SM besides the DA and SW?

[viral vessel]

Did you mean to say feuds?

[plush mason]

yes

its 3am so my brain isnt working at 100% rn lol

[shadow plover]

I'm sure some are still a bit vary of the primaris brethren that have joined their ranks

[real stone]

Marines malevolent and salamanders

Really, marines malevolent and everybody they ever come in contact with

they're assholes

[plush mason]

oh i just remembered. the blood ravens and the black templars

iirc the black templars where helping the blood ravens and the BR in charge was a psyker and that fact plus something else lead to the black templars up and leaving them to finish the battle alone

the 2 chapters hated each other since lol

[tired umbra]

Space Wolves and the Grey Knights

But that's mostly the Inquisition fucking around and finding out.

[plush mason]

yeah thats why i dont really count it. that and idk if they are still feuding over it or not

[tired umbra]

They aren't actively shooting eachother

I am pretty sure The Minotaurs also have beef with people.

[signal hill]

I Wonder how well space wolves would Work together with a felinid of Regiment
I Imagine slaughter

[upbeat saddle]

Depends if they have the support of Carlos McConnell

[signal hill]

That Guys Name already drips swagger

[storm jungle]

They would just joke about how they look like cats and nothing else

space wolves arent that fascist against abhumans lol

[signal hill]

Was moe a dogs/Cats Joke :p

[storm jungle]

💀

[signal hill]

Can abhumans become Marines though?

Would probably be considered heresy

[storm jungle]

Nah

they are genetically defunct to be Marines

[tired umbra]

They could probably. But they would never be allowed

[signal hill]

And here I have both expected answers and am mit one step further

[storm jungle]

Abhumans cannot become marines

so yeah

[tired umbra]

It's a no either way

Even if you physically could make one. It'd never ever be allowed

[vast frigate]

Thats where custodes come in

With alchemy and magic

[signal hill]

Brings me to another question that likely has No official answer

We know that Marines DNA is modded extensively
I also remember that there are, of very few, space Marine chapters where the Marines can keep a Connection to their family
Now I wonder of they can have children and of they are part space Marine themselves

[storm jungle]

Marines cant have children.

They are sterile.

and every Space Marine genetic enhancement is done artifically through years of surgery and applications.

You cant just "inherit" being a space marine.

[shadow plover]

ye you can't grow a geneseed gland yourself

[storm jungle]

Yeah any Marine that is allowed to spend time with mortals is entirely for bonding purposes than having anything like families or other lives

[shadow plover]

is it btw stated that the SM neophytes are sterilised

because I don't know

[storm jungle]

Yeah it is. Now I have to dig it up lmao

[shadow plover]

Yes. Yes you do

[storm jungle]

"As has been mentioned, the Custodian Guard and the Space Marines are related in form, as perhaps might be expected of works of a same creator's hand, but they are very different in function and capacity. There are of course similarities between the two. Both are physically transformed well beyond 'natural' human limits in terms of strength, endurance and fortitude, and fitted for inhuman environmental adaption and resilience, though in this the Legio Custodes are the markedly superior of the two in might, if not in adaptability.

Both are subject to extensive psychological and cognitive conditioning, and are physically and mentally reworked to render most of their baser drives inert and their beings rechannelled towards aggression, goal acquisition and the fulfilment of duty, and as a further safeguard against distraction and as a biological control, both are of course incapable of procreation.

In both cases all that is left are beings of singular purpose; in the case of each Legiones Astartes, what is created is a living engine of conquest that cares for little else, and in the Custodian Guard, each is created protector of unrelenting diligence and savage capability-a watchman whose vigilance will never tire".

[signal hill]

Well, then that answer is questioned

...wait...

facepalms

[shadow plover]

incapable physically or mentally

[plush mason]

likely both

removing the sex drive isnt something that can be done purely with mental conditioning as it is more a biological thing than a psychological one

[storm jungle]

To be fair

you assume these writers know anything about how the human body functions

"Just give them acid glands in their mouth. That could never go wrong and melt off their jaw."

[plush mason]

lol

[signal hill]

Sounds right
Either their healing Factor is enough which would indicate a comparatively mild Acid or they need regular jaw replacement surgery

[shadow plover]

just say some scifi mumbo jumbo and state it only activates it's corrosive properties once it has left the mouth

also afaik it doesn't produce acid constantly but only once it's been activated by the person marine in question

[signal hill]

The last part makes...a certain degree of Sense
But the activation is...iffy at best

[vast frigate]

From what i remember reading its neutralized by their saliva until it leaves the body or some shit

[plush mason]

lol why just just have special tubes in their mouths that are acid proof? much like the venom tubes of the spiting cobra

[storm jungle]

If you want a "realistic" depiction of what all those organs would do to a space marine watch this vid

https://youtu.be/Xl6xKGAUsA0

its great

[signal hill]

The Problem with that would be that, after leaving the Body, it would still be mixed with neutralizing saliva

[plush mason]

yup

[plush mason]

my med student friend will love this thanks

[storm jungle]

no worries

[plush mason]

its kinda funny how his art looked so much like the old SM art lol

idfk why GW prettied them up like they did

[vast frigate]

Yes

So idk

I showed the concept to a canadian friend, she works in biochemistry

"The fuck" was her answer

[plush mason]

also the placement of the proganoid glands is stupid as hell

[final spruce]

Sell more

Can't be a great power fantasy if it makes you ugly

[plush mason]

fail

i mean. its clear from the lore that they where never meant to be what they are now so what changed?

[signal hill]

Well...don't neednto be pretty of you
A) wear a helmet all the time
B) don't fuck anyway
And, while it's mit universally the Case
With b my Personal Power Fantasy would Go down the drain anyway xD

[cerulean wagon]

thanks for posting this 🙏

[noble zodiac]

Tbf old lore suggested marines did (rarely) have wives and kids.

New HH lore suggests this is mostly because they weren’t opposed to recruiting grown adults until after the HH. Though IIRC the black templars still do.

[cerulean wagon]

wives and kids from before transformation

[noble zodiac]

That’s what’s implied.

[cerulean wagon]

y..yes?

thats not changed

[crisp orbit]

yo btw someone linked some youtube playlist explaining all the WH40K guns yesterday, it was like 15min per weapon, going in way too deep than necessary, and the guy's voice was super annoying. i just googled and found this video instead, it gives a much better showcase in about 10min https://youtu.be/6ueQKSGXc1o?t=81

[final spruce]

So its either Luetin or Majorkill, thats not much of a choice but atleast I imagine Majorkill is less boring

[crisp orbit]

i saw Luetin's take on guns, it the first video was 45min so i skipped it for now

ogryn is large enough to use a bolter, will they let him use one? 🤔

[final spruce]

Moopshark said he'll have a heavy one

So we will see

[tranquil umbra]

the heavy type has been pretty much confirmed for enemies, not sure about the smaller oes

[final spruce]

Ever since the PCGamer article, human sized bolters have been confirmed, Moopshark said it was a shared weapon between the vet and the zealot recently

[sleek canyon]

Luetin's videos are very detailed, he puts a lot of thoughts and research in each one of his videos. Although I find most of them very interesting, although sometimes a bit too lengthy for my taste, I don't think it's a good "entry point" for someone beginning in 40k.

Majorkill's videos are much more condensed and entertaining (if he doesn't get on your nerves), they're more of an overview of the subject matter.

There are some 40k lore channels you'd better avoid, as those are just people reading wikipedia pages about 40k with no added value whatsoever. But in Luetin and Majorkill's cases, their style may be completely different, but they both do a lot of research to document their videos.

[crisp orbit]

yeah i was referring to Luetin, i do like his videos

i actually knew him from his Arma or Dayz videos, i think he used to make those

[real hare]

Hi all, trying to remember the name of those Nurgle worshipper units that like take stock of how many planets have succumbed and all that, can someone help me out? Haha

[storm jungle]

The ones that use these?

[real hare]

Yes exactly lol

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tallymen_(Death_Guard)

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/1/1d/Tallyman.jpg

[real hare]

OMG that's it Tallymen thanks @storm jungle I was wracking my brain for too long on that one

[storm jungle]

No worries lmao

remember, the lexi is your friend

[plush mason]

so mortal blightbearers more or less lol

[storm jungle]

Sort of.

They at least know math.

[plush mason]

dont the blightbearers also count like that? leading them to also be called the tallymen of nurgle?

[storm jungle]

I'm... actually not sure

[plush mason]

i know they did in fantasy but idk about 40k

[vapid tiger]

Plaguebearers

Yeah they constantly count

The number of plagues

they are not happy

[plush mason]

ah that was their name lol

[plush mason]

why do the black templars hate psykers?

its seems very counter intuitive to hate psykers when you worship one as a god + need them in battle and else where

ah i see

well i was basing it more off of DOW2 lore that said the fact the blood ravens has so many psykers that it lead the black templars to hate them lol

yeah

hell working along the blood ravens under the command of a librarian is what lead to the feud between them iirc lol

thats really true for the blood ravens as they have a lot more librarians than most other chapters. to the point that the roles of chapter master and chief librarian where often held by one person lol

[final spruce]

Yeah they toned it down in 9th edition

This quote was also posted back then during the BT new minis release by WC

[dry epoch]

Interesting theological clash between a Black Templar and Silver Skull in the Deathwatch.

Given how much stock the Skullies put in omens and portents and how that winds the BT up to the max (always a pleasure, never a chore)

[austere crystal]

where in the world do i begin to learn all of this? like what's a good beginning book for the beginning of all this? im mostly focused on 40k imperial stuff, like with humans, the space marines, chaos, etc. im not well-versed, sorry if the question is lacking in detail.

[wind flicker]

Browsing the wiki is probably the least awful way

Lexicanus specifically

Fandom suggs

[storm jungle]

Lexicanum :
"Khorne is the god of blood and murder. He hates wizards and loves berzerkers"

Wikia :
"Khorne is the god of blood and murder, murderous blood and bloody killing. He is sated by acts of murder and blood. Warriors of blood and murder call to Khorne and Khorne demands of them blood and murder. Every time a bloody murderer wants to commit murdery blood, he invites Khorne into him. Khorne despises wizards and uses bloody murder to murder out all of the wizard blood. Khorne has no wizards, and hates them. Khorne favors only the bloodiest of murderers for his blood murdering.

[wind flicker]

True

They omitted talking about murder blood death killing though

[storm jungle]

What copying entire pages from a codex does to a mf'er

[viral vessel]

The Lexicanum site would be your online go to. For lore and background book-wise I'd start with the Horus Heresy series.

[vapid tiger]

Better than all of the above:

Nab 40k codices. Doesn't have to be through legitimate means. Read em, the Imperial ones especially if that's what you're interested in. Any discrepancies can usually found on the lexicanum.

Second, grab the following older sources that are largely still canon:

Index Astartes
Codex Imperialis

If interested in the horus heresy, grab the Horus Heresy Black Book series. Again, there's ways of getting it without paying for it.

And finally, FIND A SCANNED COPY OF THE ORIGINAL 1987 ROGUE TRADER RULEBOOK. It's quite relevant and mostly accurate to the modern setting, it's referenced a lot more than you'd think in modern 40k, and it gives the best thematic view of the setting out of any source, period. 40k's primary source

[austere crystal]

Damn, I really appreciate all that guys, I gotta screenshot all this lmao

[atomic pelican]

Yeah, Codex of faction u like into their books is p good

40k is so subsectioned you can pretty easily just enjoy a field of interest without reading a 50 book prequel

[austere crystal]

ah okay cool, good to know

[plush mason]

thats almost as bad as the space wolves wiki lol

[storm jungle]

Alas it is how it is

[wind flicker]

Someone could replace the space wolf wiki with WOOF WOOF AROOOOO and it would mean the same

[final spruce]

Btw, how many wolf in the wiki

Lemme check

More than 1000

Search engine cannot count em all

[plush mason]

over 2k in total

[final spruce]

[wind flicker]

Aroooo

[vapid tiger]

dan abnett be like:

Space wolves are space vikings, the vlka fynryka. The wolf thing is largely the result of outsiders misunderstanding them, but they DO have a wolf fetish.

Studio writers:

WOLFWOLFWOLFWOLFWOLFWOLFWOLFWOLF

[wind flicker]

On all levels except the warp, I am a wolf

morphs into a furry

[formal wind]

So the "Darktide" is just slang for the allure of xenos / Chaos ideology? I would love to see multiple chaos gods working together even though we only see signs of Nurgle's work so far.

[wind flicker]

Its all of xenos/chaos

[viral vessel]

It's a catchall for the general "tide of darkness" humanity faces in the 40k setting.

[wind flicker]

that and chaostide isnt as catchy

[formal wind]

The end of "Hammer & Bolter : Bound for Greatness" had a good visualization for the dark essence of chaos (the Darktide) falling over a planet while the occupants don't really notice anything changing. With the backstory of this legion we have to fight they seem like they were tired and underappreciated by the overall Imperium, literally rotting away their faith while reinforcing their resolve to fight for their own people. Which brings me to a quote from plague song that is befitting to Nurgle turning one of the Imperium's most effective Legions against us: A plan precedes action. Our work is already done. You are as blunt to the grandfather's teaching as Moria was. In the right storm, the seeds of the future can be blown to take root in the past. Do you feel it yet Seftus? The ill seeds of tomorrow swollen ripe. It is already too late, listen...." We saw in the trailers the active takeover of the city and the converting of civilians using a plague to affect civilians but honestly a lot of the enemy designs remind me of blood cult soldiers of khorne other than the big plague papa boss. & with the scale of the city housing billions of people we could still see other plots arise from other cults that want the planet for their own God since its an older planet on the edge of Imperium space (if im remembering correctly).

[lusty lantern]

I knew it was a term!

[granite gull]

so uh

how do lasguns have recoil

[upbeat saddle]

Because

[shadow plover]

because it feels better in gameplay

and I suppose there has been some attempts to explain it in the lore as well

[wispy vector]

The ionization of the laser through the air pushes air molecules away, resulting in recoil

The molecules have to go somewhere. So there a pseudoscientific explanation

[viral vessel]

I'm willing to tolerate it for the sake of gameplay reasons.

[formal wind]

Don't they have the same stopping power as a .50 cal?? Bound to have some kind of kickback when you have that much concentrated energy coming from a gun barrel with a smaller caliber size.

[viral vessel]

Because without recoil, lasguns would just be too powerful a weapon.

Uh

The gun doesn't have a caliber in the traditional sense.

It's ionized gas.

There isn't a massive amount of kinetic energy being transferred to whatever you hit.

There's not an appreciable amount of mass in the shot.

So the only stopping power would come from the pain of the laser wound and internal damage to organs.

[signal hill]

Electromagnet for Ionisation goes 'clack' and kicks back to make ions Go fast

[formal wind]

not physical mass but pure energy coming from an unanchored source would be the equivalent of being pushed back by a small jet burst.

[viral vessel]

There's no such thing as "pure energy". It's a reaction where molecules of gas are being ionized. The only mass present to convey any kinetic energy would be from those molecules.

Otherwise, the sun's energy would be crushing every human on Earth.

I've also seen suggestions that they're a form of pulse weapon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_energy_projectile

[wispy vector]

Well, it doesn't completely work like a PEP. Though there are similarities (mostly the lasgun cooking whatever is on the receiving end)

[noble zodiac]

My head cannon, the recoil is actually air being thrust through the weapon to cool it off.

[noble zodiac]

The lasgun in the lore works pretty much the same way as described in the PEP article.

It’s basically a ‘pulse laser’ in generics sci fi speak

[viral vessel]

The issue is how it's described in lore doesn't exactly match up with how they refer to it.

Which could potentially be explained by the general ignorance and loss of scientific knowledge over time within the Imperium.

Hence they refer to it as a laser despite the fact it's actually pulsed energy.

[noble zodiac]

Potentially yes. .50 cal has about 18,000 joules of muzzle energy.

It’s probably much less than this but long-las sniper rifles could easily be in this range.

[viral vessel]

Descriptions of its performance and damage profile against the enemy is filled with inconsistencies.

[noble zodiac]

A PEP is a ‘pulse laser’. There isn’t any such thing as ‘pulsed energy’

The principal of a Pulse laser is you fire photons in discrete ‘pulses’ like a child might turn a torch on and off. This also alabative gases to disperse instead of absorbing some of the incoming photons.

The frequency can also be incredibly high. To the point that people would not see any discrete ‘flashes’ in a shot. It would instead appear to be a continuous ’beam’ for the duration of the shot.

[tawdry escarp]

Are they going to have to rename this chat to Lasgun Recoil?

[wispy vector]

Well, it's an interesting topic, seeing laser weapons are not really prevalent in the 21st century. And technically, a laser does not have recoil (look at laser cutters). So when a lasgun has recoil, it might not be a laser weapon

Besides, being corrected is nice, because it shows i have waaay more to learn when it comes down to lasers

[noble zodiac]

Fun lore fact. Lasgun are not 100% efficient and do expel a small amount of invisible UV light. Enough that using them extensively without eye protection will eventually blind you 🐸

[scenic bolt]

probably more immediately blind you

[wispy vector]

That sounds like a guardsman problem, not an administratum problem 😂

[scenic bolt]

eyes arent very resilient

[noble zodiac]

Sometimes we get eye drops

[scenic bolt]

my favorite explanation is lasguns got recoil due to the machine spirit

cant argue against it

[wispy vector]

the machine spirit dislikes this proceeds to give you a shove

[scenic bolt]

100%

[noble zodiac]

The awks moment where I have to say that photons have mass so it will have recoil.

If the muzzle energy is 6k joules we can work the very smol photon reaction force via some maths

[tawdry escarp]

You wouldn't happen to be some kind of physicist, would you, miner?

[scenic bolt]

alternatively the lasgun model added in recoil to conserve ammo

armies have done dumber things

[noble zodiac]

But yeah lasguns could only realistically have recoil due to two reasons (physics wise)

1. Venting of cooling gases
2. A plasma expansion bubble forming at the muzzle. Which does appear to be present in the darktide cinematics

[noble zodiac]

Engineer . So gravity is 10ms^2 not 9.81ms^2

[wispy vector]

The m14 comes to mind

[scenic bolt]

that was where my mind went too

[austere ridge]

yeah loads of things were done to discourage spray n pray

[tawdry escarp]

It'd be weird if trying to find out if lasguns have recoil causes someone to make a real laser rifle

[noble zodiac]

Didn’t the army just want a cheaper BAR for everyone?

Armies are conservative beasts, and there’s logistics to consider . So while the EM2 might of been a better weapon…

[scenic bolt]

specifically they removed full auto off the m14 because they didnt want soldiers wasting ammo

[noble zodiac]

M16 being full auto. Then being changed to burst or single fire only

[tawdry escarp]

Well, the m16 thing was done because of maintenance issues

[noble zodiac]

I thought it was because it was too circumstantial and hard to use?

[noble zodiac]

Ah, too much fouling?

[tawdry escarp]

Soldiers would fire it full auto and it would get dirty really quickly

They had to clean them constantly

[sleek canyon]

Luetin made a very lengthy video about the lasgun recoil question with some interesting points (what if the term "lasgun" is incorrect for instance?) and also shows various instances in the lore where authors say it has recoil, others don't and so on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF8ex1Fgj0Q

I'd tend to say that if you like the idea of lasguns having recoil, then whatever the reason is, they have recoil.

[wispy vector]

I have to rack my mind for a moment, but i think you might be right with "BAR's for everyone". Later during the war it turned out the automatic fire was too much to control for new recruits. So they removed it. Invalidating the accuracy by volume principle it was built on. If i'm correct the army did a few maths in ww2 and came to the conclusion most deaths where caused by automatic surpressing fire.

So if you give every single man in a platoon a fully automatic gun, the numbers state you will kill more through volume of fire

Or my brain is currently giving me a runaround and i'm saying inaccurate things

[tawdry escarp]

Ah, the quality of quantity

[wispy vector]

Yup, you can't dodge the bullets if the air is replaced by bullets

See, the orks aren't wrong

[tawdry escarp]

Real bullet hell hours

[scenic bolt]

ultimately yea it comes down to it's a fictional setting so it's weird when lasgun recoil gets knocked as unrealistic, but not, say plasma weapons existing at all

[shadow plover]

are the blaster in star wars any different

is the recoil explained for those

[scenic bolt]

not really

[wispy vector]

Blaster in star wars use magnetically contained tibanna gas plasma to create the "laser"

[scenic bolt]

thats where star wars went right and stayed mostly soft scifi

[wispy vector]

Because plasma is given a sort of "feasable" explanation. Seeing it's 'just' superheated plasma magnetically contained. Which makes the get's hot rule nice, because magnetic fields can fail

[noble zodiac]

They’re basically plasma guns if IRRC

[scenic bolt]

therein lies the problem, the non-descript force required to contain it would be like earth shatteringly large, and if it's trivial to produce in that universe, it'd be equally common as defensive field

[wispy vector]

Fair, but i remember hearing about an ark mechanicus ship with black hole guns, and the ability to "telefrag" other vessels

[upbeat saddle]

Age of technology goofiness

[wispy vector]

So seeing how much knowledge was lost, and innovation is a no-no word in the mechanicum. I'm not surprised that the admech isn't making deployable plasma cover

[noble zodiac]

What’s unrealistic about the plasma gun?

[scenic bolt]

it basically circles back to the og point that on the scale of unrealistic weapon shenanigans, lasgun recoil is towards the bottom of the list compared to other things

[noble zodiac]

Other than the fuel source/energy density

[scenic bolt]

mostly due to the fact it's a gas

[upbeat saddle]

Lasgun recoil channel Lasgun recoil channel

[scenic bolt]

you can have a plasma weapon but it'd look like a welding torch or a flamethrower at best

[noble zodiac]

It’s not a gas the whole time

Plasma rather

[wispy vector]

Disregarding the enormous energy costs of the magnetic field. They do state it's contained. And if something is contained you could project it right?

[noble zodiac]

Pulse weapons the tau use for example are actually solid projectile that reach a plasma state in flight and on impact

[noble zodiac]

Yes

[wispy vector]

So yeah, a plasma gun could work, if not for the otherworldy power requirements for the containment of the plasma

[noble zodiac]

Pretty much. There’s some engineering hurdles, like how did we make a magnetic field and project it?

Same with the lasgun. It’s feasible with real world physics. But the battery pack is beyond anything we can do atm.

[wispy vector]

I remember reading something that with the projected power output of a lasgun, you'd need weeks to charge one shot with the current power supplies combined on earth. Simply because there is no proper scale for 40k

[noble zodiac]

Not sure about this part. I imagine a single shot would be about 2,000 joules at least.

Which would mean that a power supply in par with a microwave over should charge it full of 60 shots in 1 minute assuming 100% charging efficiency

And 100% firing efficiency

Irl lasers are like 5-20% efficient off the top of my head. In the end, the rated wattage of a lasgun battery would have to be massive. Even if the capacity isn’t.

[scenic bolt]

The plasma would expand according to the virial theorem, in short it'll want to equalize its pressure to the surrounding atmospheric pressure. If it's done at a high pressure this is an explosion. Ultimately this means you have to contain said explosion along the pathway to the target, and contained in such a way that counteracts its low density to prevent it from rising due to buoyancy, now you can get around that by trying to use high velocity, but at that point you've created a particle beam and not the ball thats popularly depicted

[wispy vector]

Isn't that technically a melta weapon? Or am i on the completely wrong thought track here.

Or more like volkite?

[scenic bolt]

meltas are a weird thing

Ive always seen them as like a 50s sci fi type heat ray or a fusion gun

[wispy vector]

I vaguely know something about the melta's and it using superagitation to heat the molecules

To be fair, most of my knowledge comes from 1d4chan.

[scenic bolt]

yea the two most popular depictions for meltas are that they dump a beam of heat on the target, others the beam triggers a fusion reaction on the target

[wispy vector]

Yeah, both space marine and battle sister depict it as dumping a wave of heat

And the ultimate apocalypse mod for DoW shows them being more like heat rays

[scenic bolt]

I think most games Ive seen meltas in it's been hot beam basically, SM1 was an outlier in that regard

[upbeat saddle]

Mf’s really discussing the physics of funny laser sci fi gun

Please discuss the physics of psyker lightning thanks

[scenic bolt]

thats basically my point

cant be examined

[dusk widget]

Just think of it as the waste heat being converted to kinetic to disperse it immediately or whatever.

Hell, it could even be a factory defect.

[final spruce]

Thats because Miguel worked on Abnett for that, Abnett being the one that wrote the Blood pact irc so ofc you'll see similarities like them retaining their training, doctrines and equipment even after joining Chaos.

[storm jungle]

oh my god

LASGUN RECOIL CHAT AGAIN?

[storm jungle]

https://c.tenor.com/pyGugHcm4XcAAAAC/michael-scott-the-office.gif

[vapid tiger]

lasguns make your shoulders explode

regular humans must use MORTAL LASGUNS to survive firing them

[fierce pendant]

wait they're discussing what here

[storm jungle]

a certified "mortal bolter" moment

[fierce pendant]

oh no

[storm jungle]

"why do lasguns have recoil"

[fierce pendant]

time to post a meme in lore chat and break the rules

ezz

[storm jungle]

and that pareloida guy went into like uh

scientific shit

because idk

lmao

[fierce pendant]

https://i.imgur.com/PkOaMAR.png

[storm jungle]

🙏

[fierce pendant]

fun fact about this meme

it's taken as quotes one from reddit and one from a person in this discord

[vapid tiger]

ha

Explain the lore behind this

[storm jungle]

My favorite is the uh

"lost tech"

meanwhile primaris get anti-grav vehicles daily

[fierce pendant]

lost tech deez nuts

[storm jungle]

[fierce pendant]

acc are grav-guns made for humans too

or w/e they're called

[storm jungle]

Nah they are astartes only

[fierce pendant]

Just remember one in that funky diablo-esque warhammer40k game

[scenic bolt]

theyre not used by 'mortals'

[storm jungle]

DONT DO THIS TO ME

[scenic bolt]

only the immortals get grav weps

[fierce pendant]

lmaooo

[storm jungle]

[fierce pendant]

mortal bolters amirite fellas

[scenic bolt]

ONLY POWER ARMOR CAN HANDLE GRAVITY

[storm jungle]

dont, hes actually gonna show up

[scenic bolt]

AND NOT SISTER POWER ARMOR

CAUSE THEYRE WOMEN

[storm jungle]

OOF.

[cerulean wagon]

OKAY SO

ALL GUNS

[fierce pendant]

actual sacred canon for 40k fans

[cerulean wagon]

HAVE HUMAN VERSIONS

LITERALLY ALL OF THEM

[fierce pendant]

grav gun too?

noice

[scenic bolt]

ratling grav guns

[cerulean wagon]

yes, incredibly rare but they exist

[fierce pendant]

cool

cue in "FS add x to the game"

[cerulean wagon]

just don't let an SM fan hear you say that

[storm jungle]

this is a certified marine moment

[fierce pendant]

I would tag one of them SM boys but they got banned from discord so

[storm jungle]

LMAO

[cerulean wagon]

[fierce pendant]

And Alexandrus's based so

kinda can't get to meme on anyone

[storm jungle]

hes a chaos fan so naturally

and not a l*yalist 🤢

[cerulean wagon]

rood

[scenic bolt]

obviously chaos has the immortal thing going on better

[shadow plover]

I'm the most based loyalist fan

[scenic bolt]

seeing as they have actual horus heresy vets still

[shadow plover]

I'd use a dab emote if I had one

[fierce pendant]

here

[shadow plover]

thank you

[fierce pendant]

dab emote be upon ye

[final spruce]

People still going at it ?

On god

[fierce pendant]

on what

no we're memeing

[vapid tiger]

Only ASTARTES can use peepeepoopoo guns as HUMANS cannot handle it

[scenic bolt]

regular humans cannot possibly handle the reverberation of a chainsword

their arm would melt

and the bones liquefy

[shadow plover]

mortals can't kiss space marines for their face would melt

check mate

[storm jungle]

Nah yeah we're memeing

the lasgun crowd left like 3 hours ago lmao

[final spruce]

Thankfully

[scenic bolt]

theyre on union time

after their break is done it will recommence

[final spruce]

Nah, these people don't unionise, they don't have the collective braincells to

[storm jungle]

Blame this guy for making up lore on the spot

thankfully he has me blocked so I don'!t have to worry about retaliation 😎

[fierce pendant]

lmao

[signal hill]

Can orks become Chaos corrupted?

[final spruce]

Yeah they can

But since all orks are connected by their gestalt powers, they can sense when something is sussy and beat the shit out of the chaos orks

[signal hill]

Ugh...did you have to use that Slang? At least use proper Low gothic

[slate gate]

Orks acting strange get krumped.

[storm jungle]

[storm jungle]

Veteran was being ironic

||theres this uh Gunnar dude here who keeps saying "mortals cant use marine bolters" and other wanky stuff so we were just memeing on it||

Yeah but he spams it a lot

and keeps saying "mortal"

it gets a bit funny

Honestly thats just tomayto, tomahto

yeah that

its not like, that important

at the end of the day the surface 40k lore doesnt pay much attention to intricacies like that

[cerulean wagon]

actually they'd be fine

[storm jungle]

Yeah that

[cerulean wagon]

people over exagerate bolters because "muh SM are the angels of death"

they wouldn't honestly

[barren tapir]

Nah, both sister and arbites bolters are the same

[cerulean wagon]

other than being horribly shaped and unergonomic

but thats part of the charm

[barren tapir]

And in fact, if we go with calibers we have SM bolters can be the same caliber of human bolters

[barren tapir]

They work well as hammers because of this though

[cerulean wagon]

on hit sure, firing it tho wouldn't be aweful

cause its not a real .75

[barren tapir]

I meant for characteristics, i know well that the sisters have a pattern different than the arbites one

[cerulean wagon]

okay but

its not a normal bullet

[barren tapir]

I mean, we got bolters for goliaths and orlocks on necromunda

[cerulean wagon]

and its weird scifi advanced tech

partially, its 2 stage

[barren tapir]

In fact, if we go with what bolt ammo is, they would have less recoil than an actual 0.75 normal bullet

[cerulean wagon]

the initial charge is weaker than a normal bullet, its just there to kick start it

also like, its a dumb scifi gun

so recoil compensation on dumb scifi guns

[barren tapir]

Also, before an awful retcon that i simply ignore, SoS bolters were stated to be special as they would use SM ammo but being used by normal humans

What is simple? Because Skele stated the truth about gyrojet ammo

So no argument ok

🤣

[storm jungle]

https://i.imgflip.com/6km6aj.gif

[barren tapir]

Because they ask you arguments?

[cerulean wagon]

then avoid better if its that much of a problem captain

if you don't like having arguments dont start them

lmao hes blocked me

[barren tapir]

Eh, bolter calibers and ammo is just a mess, no wonder people get it wrong most of the time

Sadly just the meme of "hurr durr a bolter will rip your arm when you shoot it" endures

[distant parcel]

its funny that the most popular weapons in 40k are the fucking messiest in terms of lore and how they work

[cerulean wagon]

they have to be

every setting has it

"its a god killing uber weapon"

but also

"heres it being functional and used generally"

[distant parcel]

pew pew machine gun

?

the lore is literally all over the fuckin place between the 100 different books written by different authors

theres no clear answer on most stuff

[cerulean wagon]

dont say that fluffy, he might block you

[prisma lark]

gah, enough about the bolter... how about we talk about the practicality of the chainsword instead?

[distant parcel]

you can be "well informed" but still be wrong because there are a ton of different information sources that all disagree with each other

my sources are better

than yours

top trumps

10 score

vs 8

rekt

[barren tapir]

True true, like people that over hype bolters and think they can rip the arm of who shoot them

Or those that think that bolters have super huge recoil

[distant parcel]

its probably a bait

[barren tapir]

We get all types of people... Like with bolters, there is one for every type

[distant parcel]

cant be sure these days

ah yeah probably bait

same guy is being contrarian and argumentative over some random topic in general

probably an account that got banned here in the past

[storm jungle]

give it a few days

we'll get another one

[barren tapir]

For a moment i was fearing you we calling me a bait Fluffy, and was getting ready to challenge you to a duel with bolt pistols, so we could end both without an arm

[storm jungle]

[barren tapir]

🔫

You should thank me Dilara, for i will help you fighting heat with my might gun

[distant parcel]

lmao he blocked me as well

[cerulean wagon]

not surprised

mans a 30k player

[distant parcel]

oof

yeah 100% guy got banned here in the past

and is coming back to get another serving of salt

and bait

[barren tapir]

You know that this is just a marketing thing of the old times right?

Original SM were also female

And the "lore" was made after to kinda justify the market thing

[shadow plover]

Isn't this a charming fellow

[barren tapir]

ROFTL

Mate, do you even know the origin of WH40K?

Because it is clear you don't

Like, we have models of female SM from the origin

[distant parcel]

cursed paintjob

lmao