So is Gav, like, the only person who writes Eldar stuff or is he just the most memorable?
#40k-lore-chat
potent swift
atomic pelican
There are small novels made by not gav which are okayish
cerulean wagon
ye other people have got short stories
gav has done any of the main lore or multi book series
almost fall of alaitoc, fall of biel tan, death of eldran (he got better)
all written into lore poorly by gav
atomic pelican
Eldrad getting ran over by deathwatch only to get bavk up LOL
Unnamed deathwatch too iirc
potent swift
Wow, even Ghaz had the grace to be killed by a dude with a name.
atomic pelican
I wish Farseers, the best divineers in the galaxy supposedly, actually divined once to help rather than be some "gotcha! Actually gets u killed" moment
Tho that applies to alot of CWE rn
potent swift
I get ya. On the one hand 'everything goes exactly as foretold' isn't most riveting storyline but 'oh noes! We misinterpreted the prophecy' only works the first few times.
atomic pelican
Yep
Thats p much the issue
Farseers are supposedly amazing divineers, but when they fail so often it leaves to wonder why anyone follows them
Thats actually the premise of my craftworld
The autarchs forcefully demoted the farseers 
potent swift
I feel like BL just don't know how to write effective CWE because other Xenos are easier. Orks use troll logic to fuel hooliganism. DE are literal supervillains. Tyranids eat. Necrons and Tau open doors to more complex things but not in the same direction CWE plotlines would necesarrily go.
elfin isle
Why oh why do they butcher the sanctionned psykers so much ?
cerulean wagon
what do you mean?
elfin isle
I'm still deep into G's G series
And one of the characters has been sent to the black ships, after a while he's back but with an enormous amount of mutilation. Like sawed eyes and mouth, chopped off limbs...
And it seemed to be a recuring method to "train psykers"
cursive hull
It depends.
Being on a blackship is basically constant torture as is.
Most Psykers don't come back without a bit of wear and tear.
The rest though, I wouldn't know.
As I understand it, Black Ships basically shove said Psykers into labyrinthine series of holds blaring constant noise and static, with strobe lights and force fed sedative laced food. Additional anti-Psy devices basically render the Psyker cargo unable to think let alone reason.
They're tested mentally and physically to see which is actually useful and which is going to go into the blender for Big E's daily meal of Psyker souls, and then finally let go.
Its somewhat common for some Psykers, particularly Astropaths, for their eyes to literally melt in their sockets during the sanctification process. So even the normal processing of Psykers to sanction them can damage them permanently.
So again, it depends.
I'm sure Blank or Skele has a better explanation or idea.
final spruce
Seems in line with what the lore says
Hell on the tabletop you can even equip a Tempestor Prime with one of those anti-psy devices
barren tapir
Black ships are also manned by SoS
So yes, for psykers those aren't fun travels... About mutilation and stuff it is indeed weird, since the only thing that i can think is minor corruption that got removed, or pain as focus for mental exercise... TBF Dan writes things that aren't entirely canon friendly, like blanks that receives telepatic messages
elfin isle
As I understand it, Black Ships basically shove said Psykers into labyrinthine s...
Who's big E ?
elfin isle
Is the Emperor eating souls or is that a metaphoric saying
crisp heath
And it seemed to be a recuring method to "train psykers"
Pain ( and implants ) can amplify psychic mcguffins
Psykers are pretty much always fluctuating from
final spruce
You need to throw 1000 psykers per day into the Golden Throne to keep the Astronomicon working and Big E alive
barren tapir
Metaphoric, he isn't eating souls, the astronomican is using those souls, and the psykers then end of exhaustion
crisp heath
Haha eccentric weirdo
To holy fuck what the fuck why did they have to saw your entire body off
final spruce
Pain ( and implants ) can amplify psychic mcguffins
It's usually the other way around
Most psykers lose a decent part of their casting abilities once they have the implants to secure their powers
crisp heath
It's actually kind of hilarious that being a Psyker can be the best thing of your life
storm jungle
Im pretty sure the Emperor is also eating souls
crisp heath
Or literally the worst
final spruce
Especially those of the Astra Telephatica
barren tapir
Im pretty sure the Emperor is also eating souls
It is a misconception
storm jungle
You sure?
crisp heath
Most psykers lose a decent part of their casting abilities once they have the im...
Depends really on what ( or who ) is writing the thing.
crisp heath
And uhh
Well
The Emperor's consuming them in some way iirc
Or taking them in at least.
I remember Abnett's Eisenhorn talking to an Emperor with the worst split personality ever
final spruce
Depends really on what ( or who ) is writing the thing.
I'm citing basic lore here
crisp heath
I'm citing basic lore here
I know you are.
final spruce
Also its the whole schtick of the Primaris Psykers
crisp heath
But basic lore gets trumped by writing memes anyway.
barren tapir
I remember Abnett's Eisenhorn talking to an Emperor with the worst split persona...
That is because big E is indeed fragmented, but not because he is absorbing other souls
storm jungle
Im pretty sure he is
final spruce
Aka they were pretty powerful so they stuck as many safety implants as possible but it severely diminushed their abilities
crisp heath
Chaeacters like Agun Soric got explicitly more powerful
storm jungle
the writers wouldnt miss a grim oppoturnity like that
final spruce
Thus why they are allowed with the IG
crisp heath
Or at least it's not conveyed properly
About how unlocking potential blah blah
But lore is scuffed
You have implants that can reduce blanks
But also not really.
barren tapir
Lore regarding psykers is fuzzy
crisp heath
Ye
storm jungle
Lore regarding 40k is fuzzy
crisp heath
Also ye
storm jungle
barren tapir
And for sure Dan isn't a great source regarding balnks and psykers
crisp heath
That is because big E is indeed fragmented, but not because he is absorbing othe...
That's a good distinction then.
They never really make it clear lol
crisp heath
And for sure Dan isn't a great source regarding balnks and psykers
Definitely not
But a lot of psyker lore tends to be handwavey mcguffins anyway as far as I can tell
barren tapir
The mind of the emperor is completely fragmented, that is also why big G is called in different titles when he met with big E
crisp heath
I still remember plenty of rando. short stories where psyker power is just
hand wave it becomes true just because convenient story stuff
The only reason it really passes is because psykers have done worse in lore
When you can explode into a demon randomly
I'm not really going to doubt much of anything tbh
cerulean wagon
psykers can have basically any manifestation of power because it is a manifestation of will pmuch
final spruce
Lore wise they are usually rated on their "power level"
crisp heath
At least weapons and doctrines tend to be much more baseline
Unless they're special snowflakes anyway
final spruce
Aka psykers with few powers end up in groups in the Astra Milaitrum because they need to be 4-5 to actually cast something
crisp heath
Like land raiders with multilasers
cerulean wagon
ngl i tend not to touch blackship lore cause like
crisp heath
👀
crisp heath
Tends not to be
cerulean wagon
hurhur grimderp usualy happens
barren tapir
It is a mess
barren tapir
Theoretically they were always manned by SoS, but that conflict with the lore that put the SoS as exiled
cerulean wagon
a lot of the horrors of a blackship can be explained by the fact you have literaly thousands of psykers trying to be active in one place
barren tapir
Then who the hell manned them?
barren tapir
Blackships also were stated to keep the psykers in stasis or in null cells
final spruce
I wouldn't call them incompetent because else it wouldn't work
crisp heath
When like 3/4th of it is blatantly corrupt
final spruce
Hell the Adminsitratum is pretty skilled when you see how much you have to manage
crisp heath
They're definitely incompetent, mostly due to the thing keeping them alive in the first place.
And I'm an imperium fan.
You have commanders who are literally just
"Yeah bury them in bodies lol"
final spruce
Dunno you seem more like a memelord than anything else tbh
crisp heath
In explicit situations that don't work
That's because 40k lore is a mess
Paradoxes happen daily
It has millions of bodies to throw into the flame at will
But at the same time, it also doesn't when its convenient
Because black lore writing logistics isn't very smart most of the time.
It has entire worlds fall in hours just because it's convenient for epic scale
And while the Administratum works
It's incompetent and corrupt and most definitely ignorant, especially when in-lore the Imperium isn't fighting just xenos and chaos, but also itself
If I was a memelord
I'd just call it grimderp as usual and not pay any mind
But it's more of a sore point on how inconsistent the lore is when it can't decide if the Imperium is always based
Or always weird and backwards
And sometimes it's both at the same time
which
Just doesn't make sense tbh
Like
Seriously
Just look at Grey Knights killing IG regiments
cerulean wagon
its because a lot of the writting is lazy and written for shock factor over any sense
crisp heath
How is that standard practice like
Ever
cerulean wagon
ye its fuckin dumb
crisp heath
The only good thing is the lore is finally saying that it's NOT standard practice
cerulean wagon
na rin
crisp heath
But considering how many actual demon encounters there are
cerulean wagon
new lore like
crisp heath
It's basically genocide
cerulean wagon
a month ago reconfirmed it
cerulean wagon
with inquis and grey knights purging regiments mid battle
cerulean wagon
I think tho what zher meant is that
crisp heath
Just regiment them into an Inquisitorial IG battalion or smth
cerulean wagon
overall, for well written lore, a lot of the core of the imperium (the admin n stuff) isnt incompetant
crisp heath
Mass purge them if needed
But mass execution seems like such an overdramatic meme
crisp heath
Ye
cerulean wagon
see: all the recent core lore from gav thorpe
crisp heath
I think the general idea they wanna make is that
Even with how messed up the imperium is, they still survive
cerulean wagon
its why, even tho it still has a few issues, i think Dan Abnett has a much better grasp of the setting than most other authors
crisp heath
But that just seems backwards to me
Ye thank god for Abnettverse
And the Sabbat worlds.
Even if there's sometimes way too much plot armor, it's all stuff that makes sense
cerulean wagon
theres plot armour ofc, its a story so its not always perfect
but the overall setting utilization is great
crisp heath
Yup
Tbh the only bullshit plot armor is Mkoll anyway.
Man can duel big E himself and probably win with how based he is
barren tapir
Mkoll being a shard of big E confirmed???
final spruce
Wouldn't explain the amount of plot armor he is wearing
crisp heath
Ye
Even Big E lost to Horus
Mkoll fried a chaos dreadnought, snuck past TWO enemy camps full of bad guys, killed a possessed sorcerer demon guy
And a ton of weird, cool stuff
cloud kindle
mkoll?
barren tapir
The chief scout of the Tanith
cloud kindle
ah kk
tiny nova
That stuff is a little odd but I think them wiping a chaos marine squad with ,8~ guardsmen is one of the more impressive ghost feats
cloud kindle
was wondering if it was a weird way of saying malcador
tiny nova
Though at one wound a piece who wouldn't wipe a chaos marine squad
cursive hull
I remembered a particular Commissar, can't remember if it was Gaunt or not, fought a Khornate Berserker in melee and won.
...That might have been Cain?
cerulean wagon
Ye was
cursive hull
I did just remember he was pissing himself in the moment.
Course, its Gaunt who has the stupidly OP powersword.
cerulean wagon
Think the zerker had also had the piss shot out of him, and they make a point of having cain not try and strength check that shit
cursive hull
Well yeah
Cain is definitely not stupid enough to try and brute force a Space Marine, let alone even a wounded Berserker.
cerulean wagon
yup
not like that time he dueled an genestealer patriarch to a standstill which is a bit more on the "wut" side
but atleast he didnt win that one
cursive hull
Didn't he run away from that particular fight as quickly as possible? Or did he get rescued? I still haven't found my Cain books to reread the whole thing.
cerulean wagon
that was ||won by the melta, as all good fights are||
cerulean wagon
haha
But ye cain is an exceptional swordsman to the point of being offered to participate in a spar with a space marine
gets fucking floored
but its neat that its not just hes crazy good and people act like its normal
cursive hull
Well yeah. He's good, for a human.
Which is kinda his whole thing.
He thinks he's not as good as he is.
But he is in a pretty high percentile as far as non-genehanced humans go.
cerulean wagon
yup
cursive hull
Partially because he uses common sense.
final spruce
Think the zerker had also had the piss shot out of him, and they make a point of...
Cain Parried twice the Khornate, Jurgen used his Deus Ex Melta
cursive hull
For the uninitiated.
Burnside here is one of the potential origins for the word Side burns
cerulean wagon
id like to see old caine, like 2nd siege of perlia caine
but reguvination treatments
cursive hull
yee
cerulean wagon
Cain Parried twice the Khornate, Jurgen used his Deus Ex Melta
ah right thx
based melta
cursive hull
Melta is underappreciated
The Melta pistol makes me feel happy inside as a concept.
The uh
final spruce
But Cain narrates him as his instincts and years of training barely keeping him alive and also noting that the Khornate beserker was abnormally slow (injured)
cursive hull
Inferno pistol*
final spruce
And Jurgen just blasts it with his melta, as always
cerulean wagon
goood
cursive hull
I don't care how hopped up on the dark gods you are.
Super heated molecules punted at you at incredible speeds will wreck your shit
final spruce
It destroys leman russes, a spess mhrens don't stand a chance
cursive hull
...TBH, as somewhat insane as it was for Space Marine to make the Melta into your horde clearing shotgun...
plucky moth
The plot armour is thicker
cursive hull
I don't think its far off to say anything caught even near to the Melta beam should catch on fire.
I still hated that in Space Marine the Melta gun had like...
No AP
What the fuck is this
final spruce
The plot armour is thicker
Not to Jurgen's Melta it uses charges of pure scenarium as ammo
tiny nova
gets fucking floored
But he chips the top layer of ceramite
cerulean wagon
You thinking of the same bit I am? with ||the reclaimers?||
tiny nova
Yes
cerulean wagon
been a while since i read it
tiny nova
He loses but he manages to get a lick in
cerulean wagon
yi
tiny nova
Interesting book and chapter
cerulean wagon
very yeah
crisp heath
Ye
I think that's pretty much the only time I remember a Space Marine ever thinking of a normal human with something like camaraderie/respect.
cerulean wagon
So i didnt know where to put this but ive decided on putting it here
because i have suffered and so shall you
someone who obviously loves the american army has tried to do marines art and there are so many things wrong wtih this image it hurts my soul
cursive hull
They seem to have missed the fucking point
Honestly, going over the top with a red white and blue colorscheme, stars and stripes chapter markings, and a pumped out bolter would have done well.
cerulean wagon
instead we got NVGs to go over his helmet
cursive hull
I was going to say
cursive hull
Really, fucking NODs on a helm that has autosenses with everything icnluded?
cerulean wagon
SO THEY CANT EVEN MOVE OVER THEY EYES
cerulean wagon
i dont mind the camo
just everything else
the AR-15 style gun with controls too small for a marine to use
crisp heath
instead we got NVGs to go over his helmet
Ye that was
literally the first thing I noticed.
I'm okay with the color scheme
but the NVG over his helmet
that's already got better sensors than that
wtfug
cerulean wagon
cursive hull
Does this person thing Space Marines are their armor? Or something?
barren tapir
Actual camo?
There are chapters that use actual camo yes
And yes, some other chapters think they are coward or simply don't have honour
cursive hull
I was going to say
Best example of marines using stealth and obscuring methods is the uh... Raven Guard, right?
I like the Raven Guard, tbh. But I'm going to be honest.
This person probably imagines Marines shy away from melee.
glad prism
Thunder Warrior, I grant you, but this is by the same artist, he's certainly aware of melee being a proficiency of Astartes
That particular example of his though, I will call a blunder.
cursive hull
It feels like he didn't realize you can't really slap a modern set of equipment onto a space marine and call it a theme
dim totem
with the camo marine skele posted?
cursive hull
I meant
Raven Guard are the closest to the aesthetic he was going for, but done right.
dim totem
yh
i hate the rifle and the stupid night goggles thing the most
it looks like they dont fit over the eyes
cursive hull
They don't.
dim totem
also it's probably already added in the armor
cursive hull
It is
cerulean wagon
he also has earnuffs on the outside of his helmet
dim totem
and the rifle
dim totem
who even made that lol
glad prism
George Abalayan
barren tapir
Raven Guard are the closest to the aesthetic he was going for, but done right.
Nah, the raptors are
barren tapir
glad prism
I sort of can overlook the earmuffs in that they do look like they're part of the helm itself, just metallic, but the rest of the additions are not for me
barren tapir
Raptors SM, also called reasonable marines
Because they are... Reasonable in their approach
glad prism
Reasonable Marines are the memes made from them for the most part.
A child of 1d4chan I'm pretty sure.
storm jungle
Yeah dont they just act tactically sensible?
storm jungle
i dont get this impression of people thinking every marine chapter charges into melee combat like its the first thing on their mind
barren tapir
Then 1d4chan expanded on it
glad prism
Raptors are much more like, you know, regular marines. Reasonable Marines are just the meme made from them.
barren tapir
i dont get this impression of people thinking **every** marine chapter charges i...
Me too, but i blame black templars and blood angels
glad prism
I very much blame the Templars more
storm jungle
Me too, but i blame black templars and blood angels
Same
Templars in general just are boring to me though so i cant say much about them 
cursive hull
I don';t mean to imply Space Marines elect melee over ranged
storm jungle
Damn, Murica rollin' in like that 
glad prism
They're so bland.
cursive hull
I just meant like
barren tapir
Their cross isn't even that of the templars, it is of the hospitalier
cursive hull
A Space Marine is universally dangerous in melee, so it'd be weird to eschew it entirely.
cerulean wagon
we really gonna be actin like the raptors are the only one using tactics
dim totem
most big metal things are
cerulean wagon
doing raven guard dirty like that
barren tapir
No no, it is just that raptors are more like the image you posted than raven guard
cursive hull
Also, while kinda stereotypical and semi-canon, the Blood Ravens.
They've got a bit of the same vibe as Raven Guard.
glad prism
Aesthetically, kind of, but not much else, they're just greener Raven Guard
dim totem
barren tapir
A lot of chapters make use of tactics, raptors are peculiar though as they prefer ranged instead of melee like the raven guard
dim totem
so beause theyre green they ressemble modern marines?
cerulean wagon
barren tapir
Raven guard really love their lighting claws
barren tapir
https://i.redd.it/l7mxh3t149m31.jpg
I recognize Hammk work when i see it
storm jungle
🐦
cursive hull
I do love the explanation for beakies actually kinda... Making sense.
glad prism
The Hussar as a Blood Angel was pretty slick
dim totem
i wonder what beakies keep in their beak
glad prism
Aerodynamics of a lobster
dim totem
i thought worms for prechewing
cursive hull
Why not both?
tiny nova
It's where they store the nuclear materials in the suit
storm jungle
Beak-Nuke
dim totem
so where do the nuclear materials go in the regular marines hmmm?
cursive hull
You don't want to know.
glad prism
In the power pack :)
restive turtle
When my big brother started reading a lot of 40k Novels, he was surprised at how absurdly rare charge-Marines were.
cursive hull
You mean, melee happy Space Marines?
Long story short, no reason to give up a superior position or situation to engage in fisticuffs sometimes.
cerulean wagon
so where do the nuclear materials go in the regular marines hmmm?
nuclear power is stored in the balls
cursive hull
Like, yes, Space Marines are undeniably great in melee, especially in crowded and cramped interiors of starships or fortifications.
But they aren't dumb.
That's what the really bad Khornate Berserkers tend to do and get killed doing.
restive turtle
Something like Space Wolves and Black Templars can be pretty melee happy, but even they can be smart about it.
cursive hull
Well, the Black Templars and Space Wolves kinda specialize in melee, but yeah, they too aren't dumb.
Space Wolves still have a devastator equiv for good reason.
Putting Space Marine Neophytes into melee though, that I think is still a bit silly on both their parts.
There's a reason Neophytes are used as scouts in most chapters.
restive turtle
The Blood Claws are stronger and closer to ordinary Marines than Scouts iirc, probably force grown, but they dont fill the same useful tactical role.
cursive hull
This is true.
But I still dislike the idea. It seems fool hardy.
Like, I get its to let the Blood Claws vent and try to learn how to control their Wulfen-ism, and shock infantry is definitely useful.
But its weird to put your less experienced troops into cqc so often.
I especially dislike it with the Black Templars
restive turtle
Funny enough, Wolf Scouts are often very experienced.
cursive hull
In all seriousness though.
Its one thing to hand your Space Marine scouts flamers, shotguns, stalker bolters, etc.
Its entirely another to hand your neophytes a bolt pistol and a CQC weapon.
Black Templars make little sense to me.
And I know not all BT Neophytes get stuck into melee.
Some do use the typical scout roster of weapons.
It just feels off.
odd sparrow
black templars are not valid
storm jungle
Black Templars are pretty deleet worthy
vapid tiger
Black templars are crazy and insane that's why
Tbf the templar neophyte will constantly be accompanied by a fully fledged marine but still
visual pumice
Take their great swords
vapid tiger
What's weird to me is that the templars don't have devastators
cursive hull
Apparently their Neophytes can carry heavy bolters into battle.
Also
Are we sure they don't even have a Dev equiv?
visual pumice
I’ll carry them to their grave
cursive hull
Because that seems... Suicidal.
Its one thing to try to murder-charge an enemy with your cqc blender infantry.
Its entirely another to try it while being shot at because no one is suppressing the enemy with a hail of gun fire.
Or, hell, have any dependable long range infantry carried AT.
restive turtle
The BL Recruits who survive are heulva good at melee tho lol
vapid tiger
Are we *sure* they don't even have a Dev equiv?
It's a weird situation because I think technically black templars can field devastators on tt
Since they haven't had a codex in a very long time
So I guess they have them?
maybe?
cursive hull
I hope that's true in canon too. Because... Its like...
It'd be like the Dark Angels not having Assault Marines or something.
It'd be really weird.
vapid tiger
Yep
restive turtle
They do have them, its just more rare.
vapid tiger
Yeah that makes more sense
restive turtle
But both the Space Wolves and Black Templars seems to have changed somewhat doctrine with Primaris.
cursive hull
I kinda hate how messy Primaris have made everything. Not only do they often overlap roles just enough to be frustrating, they still act like specialists more than generalists, making it really awkward.
cerulean wagon
its because instead of having "heavy weapons" who deal with that sector of stuff
primaris have entire squads dedicated to a single gun
"this is the plasma gun squad"
vapid tiger
I imagine the primaris space wolves and black templars still follow the doctrines of their chapters in a broad sense, but lean towards the codex a little bit more when it comes to fighting and organization
But yeah
No details on it
Even in the space wolves codex supplement it's not really elaborated upon
Which is annoying
restive turtle
But do recruits of either exist in the new versions?
Arent they just Primaris Scouts?
vapid tiger
It's established that primaris still have scouts that are functionally the same as firstborn scouts
cursive hull
I do hope the Primaris stay specialists based on weapon.
If they could equip anything they liked, Tac Marines are just gone.
vapid tiger
But I imagine wolf scouts are going the way of the dodo in the space wolves due to primaris marines
Slowly being replaced by vanguard marines
Due to wolf scouts always being a veteran position
Like, I still imagine they're similar in how they operate but not the same
It's established that among codex compliant chapters it's
Scout > vanguard marine > fire support > close support > battleline > veteran (and any of the last few can apparently still assume vanguard roles when the situation calls for it)
cursive hull
You mean assault? Vanguard is something else?
vapid tiger
Vanguard marines are the infiltrators and whatnot
cursive hull
fair enough.
cursive hull
Wait
Doesn't that now mean we have two squads based on the name Vanguard?
The melee veterans and the Phobos armor folks?
vapid tiger
Yes.
Well actuall6
Vanguard vets are a squad type
Vanguard marines is a broad classification for the tacticool primaris squad types
the guys in phobos and the suppressor
cursive hull
yee
vapid tiger
it's confusing
cerulean wagon
vapid tiger
Anyway I imagine for primaris space wolves it's
Assault Intercessor "Blood Claw" > Battleline "Grey Hunter" > Fire Support "Long Fang"
And then inceptors are sky claws and vanguard marines are wolf scouts but in proper squads and taking up those roles
Like I'd be surprised if primaris space wolves didn't still use the names but just applied them on a broader scale
restive turtle
I am pretty satisfied with some of the new Primaris units, the ones that annoys me the most are the Assault Intercessors.
storm jungle
I am pretty satisfied with some of the new Primaris units, the ones that annoys ...
you'll take your ATV and you'll like it
restive turtle
I dont care about the racing cars
I only care about that they removed Jump packs and now made them run on foot.
restive turtle
The thing about Primaris was that they were supposed to be more mobile, why remove the jump pack when they gave the semi Terminator and the guy with the AutoCannon it.
vapid tiger
And then for primaris black templars I imagine it's
Neophyte > Assault Intercessor/Battleline "Initiate" > Veteran Intercessor/Bladeguard "Sword Brethren"
And then everything else is seen as a specialist role
It's stated that black templars use vanguard marines but I imagine they just take up vanguard roles when the situation calls for it or have ritualized it in some way
barren tapir
Has ever been given an explanation for why they don't get jump packs anymore?
restive turtle
I mean they give it to a semi Terminator, and someone with an AutoCannon.
They arent lacking it
vapid tiger
I only care about that they removed Jump packs and now made them run on foot.
Technically you could do that before
restive turtle
What do Assault Intercessors do of use on the Tabletop compared to Assault Marines?
vapid tiger
You could take assault marines without the jump packs
So they were a thing
It's just that you'd be an idiot not to give them jump packs
vapid tiger
What do Assault Intercessors do of use on the Tabletop compared to Assault Marin...
They're assault marines but punchier
But less mobile
That's it
That's the difference
And assault intercessors are troops
which is the big difference
storm jungle
are those the stupid marines with oversized boots
vapid tiger
no assault intercessors are the reg primaris marines but with chainswords
Oversized boot boys are inceptors
errant mauve
are those the stupid marines with oversized boots
That description encompasses A LOT of marines 
storm jungle
I didnt know holding a chainsword and a pistol was a fucking expertise
restive turtle
lol
storm jungle
cant wait for Pilotcessors
because Marines are too dumb to fly aircrafts
or Drivercessors
because driving is also hard
also Fragcessors
because throwing is also extremely difficult
vapid tiger
It's supposed to be some kind of unit role or something since primaris marines are established as frequently switching squad types on the fly between campaigns
since their armor is modular or w/e
Assault intercessors
errant mauve
I don't have any primaris in my Marine armies because I stopped collecting LSM in 2014 
vapid tiger
Inceptors
"Inceptors" is a stupid name when you're already using "Intercessors" as a name
barren tapir
Inceptors would be stupid even if there weren't intercessors
vapid tiger
Yeah
errant mauve
All primaris marine names are a big dumb
barren tapir
What the hell are they incepting?
vapid tiger
It's a word apparently but it's a stupid word
errant mauve
Alright fellas let's go with the naming convention of "verb starting with IN" and end it as a noun with "OR", this won't be confusing at all!
vapid tiger
I like the copyrightable stormcast unit names more
The primaris unit names sound like stormcast unit names but really stupid
errant mauve
Can't wait for primaris Introvertors to hit the market
barren tapir
It is a word indeed, and it is linked to inception iirc, but it kinda mean start
storm jungle
I like the copyrightable stormcast unit names more
The primaris unit names soun...
Shit like ANNIHILATORS sounds a lot more fucking metal
vapid tiger
Primaris Investors
Truly the most inhuman and uncaring of primaris marines
barren tapir
Can't wait for primaris Introvertors to hit the market
Finally something in which i can see myself... Of course there will be no squad, they will be alone, and they will also stay away from your other troops
storm jungle
So yeah stormcasts got the primaris beat on the naming department i think
vapid tiger
Like geedubs if you were gonna give primaris marines dumb names at least make them metal sounding
There's like three primaris unit names that sound decent
Aggressors, Eradicators and Bladeguard
errant mauve
Man, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place rn
I either have to
- say SCE are good at something
- Day something nice about primaris
I don't like this
vapid tiger
The rest are dumb
storm jungle
Man, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place rn
I either have to
- say SCE are...
Stormcasts are fine tbh
they fill their fantasy role well enough
errant mauve
I don't really care for SCE
storm jungle
that and they arent oversaturated
errant mauve
I find them the worst out of the new AoS factions tbch
storm jungle
vapid tiger
I forgot
"Eliminators"
I like that one too
For the sniper primaris boys
That sounds cool
But "incursors"
"Suppressors"
errant mauve
Look stormcast are just every single new Space Marine homebrew ever rolled into one for me 
errant mauve
Reivers sounds pretty cool imo
storm jungle
just them attempting to not say "reaver"
also i agree Reavers are actually fucking great
vapid tiger
Reiver is a word that sounds just like reaver but it's a real word that means "raiders"
vapid tiger
But
errant mauve
Reiver is a word yeah
errant mauve
I think Reiver sounds better than raider tbch
errant mauve
I hate the Reiver sculpys
vapid tiger
It sounds too similar to land raiders
errant mauve
The name is pretty dope
vapid tiger
But GW also has no problem with half of the primaris units having names that start with the letters "inc"
vapid tiger
I hate the Reiver sculpys
Imo they should've given the reivers beaky helmets
vapid tiger
Beaky helmets with shark teeth painted on like the flesh eaters
that would be cool
As it stands they look like derpy chaplains or a bunch of marines who want to attend a white nationalist march and hit people with sticks
errant mauve
What bothers me about reivers is pretty much
- wire mesh abs for some reason
- tiny ankles
- teeny tiny shoulderpads
- skull mask (literally cool on any other unit)
-muh knives - muh thigh pouches
vapid tiger
They'd look way better if you changed the helmet
The infiltrators look fine and they have a better helmet and otherwise identical armor outside of the antenna on their backpack
errant mauve
They look way better if they didn't have exposed abs and Manlet ankles
storm jungle
silence fool
errant mauve
Feel free to disagree
vapid tiger
I'm wondering how the primaris terminators will look when they're inevitably unveiled
errant mauve
But the ankles just look atrocious to me
storm jungle
I'm wondering how the primaris terminators will look when they're inevitably unv...
I think they already have havent they?
the gravis guys or whatever
vapid tiger
Gravis armor is a poor man's terminator armor
errant mauve
I'm wondering how the primaris terminators will look when they're inevitably unv...
My prediction is "much too circular"
storm jungle
agreed
but like
im worried since the terminator design is Iconic™️
its almost impossible to top it
vapid tiger
They'll make primaris termies because primaris marines are a money printer
atomic pelican
Probably look kinda cadian tbh...
vapid tiger
They're gonna squeeze out as many units as they can
errant mauve
im worried since the terminator design is **Iconic**™️
That's what people said about rhinos and we got a fuckin Confederate rally pickup truck for the primaris equivalent 
storm jungle
WHAT
errant mauve
To quote a friend
errant mauve
Also
vapid tiger
I kind of like how inceptors are a callback to a certain piece of rt artwork tbh tho
storm jungle
I hate the anti-grav trend so much
cerulean wagon
and then make gocarts
storm jungle
ehhh
errant mauve
Drip
errant mauve
Drown
storm jungle
i miss it when the custodes were the only faction with an entire anti-grav vehicle arsenal
it makes the tech much more "rare" looking
errant mauve
I like how GW talks about how primaris get all this lost and rare tech but doesn't let anyone but 2 dudes have Jumppacks
Oh three
The awful RG model has one too
storm jungle
They treat the primaris like fashion models
"i dont want to wear this, i miss my old costume
"YOU'LL WEAR IT AND YOU'LL FUCKING LIKE IT"
vapid tiger
"Part of what made 40k aesthetic distinct I feel is the anachronistic (I think that's the word??) design that went into things. Like land raiders are straight up just ww1 tanks but with laser cannons attached, and then transhuman power armoured monsters come pouring out of the hatches"
vapid tiger
"grav tanks just don't hit the same way"
"Land Raiders and Rhinos: Based, cool, impractical rad ww1 designs
Primaris Hover tanks: Cringe, what is going on??? everything and nothing happening??? tank or floating gun??? occupies tau and eldar turf"
errant mauve
Reject poo-maris, embrace Chowse
vapid tiger
speaking of occupying eldar turf
Eradicators, despite having cool minis and a cool name, still kind of rub me the wrong way
They're space marine fire dragons
But 100% better than fire dragons
errant mauve
I miss the days when every single marine model ever didn't have a completely unique weapon no one else can use
vapid tiger
Reject poo-maris, embrace Chowse
very cool and good
cerulean wagon
yup
errant mauve
6th edition: "Yeah my sternguard vets have 4 plasma guns and one melta"
"Ok cool, I know what those do since many models can take them"
9th edition: "Yeah my primaris introperstivinundators have a sugondese aleph-null hunter killer pattern bolt gun, that's different from the Candice ultra killy Pattern bolt rifles my interroultrmancigators have though"
Dies from aneurysm
vapid tiger
I miss the days when every single marine model ever didn't have a completely uni...
I find the 1st ed rulebook fascinating since instead of every faction (and unit nowadays) having unique weapons that no one else can use wasn't there at all
Anyone could take any weapon, and each weapon served as more of a broad weapon class than a specific weapon in universe
Like how a 19th century shotgun is a very different weapon compared to an AA-12 but they're both in the category of "shotgun"
errant mauve
Yessir
It's one of my main gripes about the new edition
Everyone has to explain what their shit does
vapid tiger
So eldar run around with boltguns and autoguns despite the shuriken catapult still being their most used weapon
Marines had said catapults too
Orks could run around with lasguns
cerulean wagon
how about them dakka rules
errant mauve
Instead just going "yeah these guys have a melta"
cerulean wagon
it makes it faster cause the updated factions are OP and table the old ones quicker
vapid tiger
i would shill for 1pr again since it has universal rules that apply to everyone mostly but that didn't go over well last time
cerulean wagon
errant mauve
it makes it faster cause the updated factions are OP and table the old ones quic...
GW truly is big brain
I guess I should put it this way
Imo
9th is faster for beginners compared to the old system, but the old system is much faster for more familiar players
cerulean wagon
kinda
atomic pelican
Rapid fire but a set amount rather than double
cerulean wagon
but not really
atomic pelican
How so
cerulean wagon
its not double like u said
keep track of your dakka per gun
cause each one is different
vapid tiger
I'm looking forward to new kill team more
atomic pelican
A big shootah will always be 3/5
vapid tiger
More accessible game with very exciting looking mechanics compared to the 8th ed version
atomic pelican
Yee new KT is hype
atomic pelican
Also the only new codex I'd say is overly complicated is the admech one
vapid tiger
hopefully
vapid tiger
I should get some of those raven guard primaris beaky helmets and put them on my reivers
Because I haven't touched them
because they're ugly
atomic pelican
Im counting on new nids and cults with octavius sector stuff
errant mauve
Tfw your 3.5 codex was so kino GW took the liberty of nerfing you for the next 5 editions
vapid tiger
fr
errant mauve
Certified "what did we do to justify this 4th edition marines were just as OP" moment
vapid tiger
Imo they should also combine daemons with marines again but maybe do it on a more limited level than ye olde chaos codex
cerulean wagon
they have been doing that but in the like
vapid tiger
Like maybe base csm could only take lesser daemons from all gods as troops but cult legions got access to the full roster of their respective god
Kind of like aos but slightly expanded compared to it
cerulean wagon
specific chapter for chaos codex
errant mauve
GW in 4th Ed be like:
Marines: can take an all T5 army that moves 13 inches every turn and can still charge - Balanced and fair!
WE can take Bezerkers and Chaos Spawn as troops - OY MATE THINK ABOUT THE GAME BALANCE
cerulean wagon
like death guard and uhh
vapid tiger
specific chapter for chaos codex
Did they add thay for death guard and 1ksons?
cerulean wagon
thousand sons is next right?
atomic pelican
Yee
cerulean wagon
i think so
vapid tiger
Do death guard have access to nurgle daemons now
cerulean wagon
correct me if im wrong tho
errant mauve
Tsons and GK yeah
errant mauve
I'm playing pretty much only Heresy and AoS till codex CSM comes out. Not fun playing CSM currently.
atomic pelican
Im p sure the cycle of 9e has been, "new codex releases, everyone shits their pants to adjust, meta shifts and then the next boogeyman releases"
cerulean wagon
admit it proud, u just wanna shit ur pants
atomic pelican
😩
errant mauve
atomic pelican
I consider myself a professional elf slayer after all the drukhari Ive fought
Cults feel oddly amazing in a vs drukhari meta
vapid tiger
In AoS chaos armies can run mortals and daemons in the same army without the daemons being allies but only if you take that god's list
Which is how it should be in 40k
atomic pelican
I'd chalk it up to handflamers and skirmishers fast enough to detonate raiders
vapid tiger
and honestly when it comes to 40k base csm should have some level of access to daemons because they feel almost underpowered compared to loyalists without being able to drop bloodletter bombs
well
Right now
And for a long time
atomic pelican
I wish 40k had a decent ally system
vapid tiger
They have been very
atomic pelican
AoS' slaps
vapid tiger
Very underpowered compared to loyalists
errant mauve
Just give us 2w GW 
vapid tiger
Since like 5th edition chaos marines have fucking sucked ass compared to loyalists
vapid tiger
On the table
errant mauve
In 5th
atomic pelican
Sorry CSM, ur the main antagonist and thus have to be easy for marines to kill
Calgar is going to get a sheet ability to oneshot lord of skulls
vapid tiger
Get back in the punching bag chaos legions
marneus calgar has to show you some manners again
errant mauve
SM had Know no fear (ignore morale) and +1 attack on the charge, as well as 2 chaoter abilities they got for free. They cost 13 points
CSM had uhhh. The marine statlines. They cost 12 points
vapid tiger
And in 3.5 csm were identical to marines except they were insanely customizable and could purchase big boy buffs, especially on their characters
With the tradeoff being that getting these buffs resulted in them costing more than loyalists
They were loyalists but more elite usually
atomic pelican
Speaking of Good point balance. Incubi are only 1 point more expensive than banshees
vapid tiger
Because they had bargained their souls to chaos in exchange for moar power
errant mauve
vapid tiger
nowadays they're just kind of worse than loyalists
errant mauve
I loved playing 3.5e IW because they were hilariously overpowered.
CSM 3.5 def needed a nerf but not what Gav did where he just removed 80% of the content
atomic pelican
Run from it. Hide from it.
Gav comes all the same
vapid tiger
Death Guard are an improvement but only if you like nurgle
Your standard marines can still kiss guilliman's ass
errant mauve
Rip in peaces my obliterator Virus infected basilisks
cerulean wagon
Gav heading the new csm books next
errant mauve
cerulean wagon
bet
atomic pelican
Prepare for a love triangle between 3 greater daemons
cerulean wagon
we already got the sparks for that is fall of bieltan
vapid tiger
"Hmmmm, what if we reduced the forgefiend's bs even further, I feel like bs 4+ is too much, it killed my primaris gladiator last game"
atomic pelican
Lov can blum on the rift
cerulean wagon
steve blum
vapid tiger
The forgefiend pisses me off actually
It's tankier than a predator sure and has better guns but it has bs 4+
it might not do much at all on a given turn
The only way to have it reliably deal damage is to have a sorcerer park next to it and buff its accuracy
plucky moth
Blumhaus Produkshuns
errant mauve
"Hmmmm, what if we reduced the forgefiend's bs even further, I feel like bs 4+ i...
"Hmmm, CSM armour really looks ramshackle compared to primaris stuff, and their mutations probably take away their astartes strength, let's make the WS 4 BS 4 S 3 T 3 W 1 SV 5+ Ld 6"
vapid tiger
"And their boltguns are probably not maintained very well, let's make them Str 3. We can mention chaos marines being shoddy compared to regular marines in some novel release later"
vapid tiger
months later
"Why is everyone fielding cultists instead of marines?"
errant mauve
Now
Ibwill say
I always fielded a lot of cultists because it was fluffy for my brew
But in 8th I never ever fielded marines because they sucked so bad 😎
vapid tiger
I remember the community articles that came out weeks before the 8th ed chaos codex release
New models revealed and all
And they kept mentioning that they wanted to "give players more of a reason to field marines again over cultists"
and then they didn't
errant mauve
But Guys! We gave you marine rules but worse again!
atomic pelican
Marines are the chaff now
errant mauve
Smh ungrateful chaos fans
vapid tiger
Meanwhile some imperium fans are like "Why do those chaos fans never stop complaining, let me post a very angry response to someone complaining about chaos being underpowered on social media"
"and then post a meme later today about how chaos must be purged by le epic imperium"
errant mauve
To quote Goonhammer
"Chaos Space Marine fans are the whiniest in the community, which would suck if they weren't right"
vapid tiger
like it's true
There's this one really whiny channel on youtube I watched back in the day (but veered into shitty territory later) who made a bunch of harshly worded videos about how fucked over chaos had been and how people shouldn't be surprised a lot of chaos fans migrated over to horus heresy despite it costing a boatload more than 40k
and he always had a point?
errant mauve
Macca?
vapid tiger
Yeah
errant mauve
Same
I really don't agree with a lot of his opinions but he nails Chaos spot on in What Broke the Fans
vapid tiger
I don't like him nowadays but he was talking about space marine power creep and gw's price model before it was cool
Like it's only when 9th ed released that people at large went "wait a minute"
errant mauve
I think he has good takes on rules and business but terrible takes on the community
vapid tiger
Yeah
Same
He also has narrative takes on 40k's fluff but that's hit-or-miss generally
errant mauve
Yeah
vapid tiger
Like, "8th edition's narrative changes mean nothing because the status quo has barely changed from a practical standpoint and it has only gotten worse since godblight"
Good take
But then he'll rant about how anyone who likes primaris marines is a "cumguzzler"
errant mauve
It's like
Macca: "I would've preferred if Guilliman didn't return, especially in the way he did"
Me: "Yeah! It was a rather lazily thought out!"
Macca: "And that's why Black people can't be ultramarines."
Me: 
storm jungle
speaking of all of this, and just as im cruising through r/40klore
Just finished reading “Beneath the Flesh”, a short story for the Flesh Tearers (part of the Trial by Blood, which is really good).
It’s literally 5 Flesh Tearers against 4078 World Eaters. And the Flesh Tearers absolutely trash the World Eaters. 3 of the 5 make it out alive, and Gabriel Seth not Chaplain Apollus were present during the fighting.
vapid tiger
what the FUCK
storm jungle
I dont have the capacity to understand tabletop but man i legit feel bad for chaos players with fluff when its shit like this
vapid tiger
I love how shit like this exists but if you go on that sub and claim that gw's writing is often terrible people will jump down your throat
storm jungle
errant mauve
> Just finished reading “Beneath the Flesh”, a short story for the Flesh Tearers...
posts a notably shit like 10 y old BL novel
Acts as though it's irrefutable proof
Certified Reddit moment
vapid tiger
What the fuck
vapid tiger
Okay land raiders with multilasers
I'm gonna
I'm gonna kinda defend cs goto on some random detail
that is how they were equipped in 1st ed
but yeah other than that goto shit
errant mauve
ITS FROM 2012
Also, if this is what they believe you could make the argument that a Flesh Tearer is significantly stronger than a Custode
The absolute state of marine novels
storm jungle
I'm just happy everyone in that thread is just in depression
just going about "yeah this is never gonna change, bartender, another round please 🥃 "
errant mauve
I'm just happy everyone in that thread is just in depression
I remember when a marine even surviving a melee encounter with a Berserker was considered impressive 
storm jungle
restive turtle
I assume the Flesh Tearers didnt kill all the World Eaters in a go
Altho Seth bae
gaunt vector
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/oqarpu/are_loyalist_marines_significan...
I have read that, its quite bizzare but it basically seems that the FT just try to gtfo not stand and fight. a single assault squad runs into a traitor held facility with an apothecary and collects some stuff, then they run their way back out using traps and maximum situational advantages to survive. its not as bad as this says, I got the impression that there were perhaps a couple of hundred WE most of whom either failed to get to the Flesh Tearers before they gtfo'd or lost too much time getting through traps and killboxes to inflict casualties. the FT had a crashed vehicle (I think it was a StormRaven) that did a lot of the work. It still had some severe loyalist bias but i don't recall it being that dumb.
restive turtle
Even with that number proper context is needed
gaunt vector
thats the equivilant of tableing multiple armies with 1 squad
errant mauve
The way OP put it, at least to me, it sounded like 5 marines fought off 4000+ WE
But if its just 5 Flesh Tearers tryna dip that's a lot easier to comprehend
restive turtle
Like, there could be 5 kilometers between each World Eater and the 4 Marines could be Veterans plus Seth, knowing the proper context is important.
vapid tiger
Reminder that khorne berserkers were once considered enough to kill primarchs in sufficient numbers
Before 7th ed Dorn's entire skeleton was on display in the Phalanx thanks to khorne zerkers
gaunt vector
the only redeeming features are as follows: the FT were legging it not fighting, their crashed Stormraven and a bunch of traps that they laid also bought them a lot of time. I think there might have been 4k WE on the planet but I do not think that 4k WE assaulted the FT's position. From what i remember there were some raptors that tried to get over a wall but were killed by the stormraven then a bunch of beserkers broke through the main gate, an aspiring champion was spooky for a couple of pages before getting killed by a future member of Seth's own command squad and then the FT successfully ran away
basically Left for Dead 2 but with World Eaters
restive turtle
Tryna swarm Seth after he survived Leviathan
gaunt vector
nice
cursive hull
This sounds like someone trying to make it out that Dawn of War 2 is canon and happened exactly as portrayed in game.
Read: A single Space Marine squad saves an entire subsector... Three times.
storm jungle
AND
Even in DoW2 it atleast makes a bit more sense in some parts
since its all suppose to be tactical strikes
but I do say "A BIT"
cursive hull
Yeah. They're doing surgical strikes. So its not... Terrible?
But its still bad
Fun game though.
storm jungle
Yeah its gets ridiculous when they can kill like an entire army of 1000 hormogaunts
but otherwise yeah its fun
cursive hull
although, in my opinion, the fact Cyrus is the strongest character out of the bunch, only barely caught by Jonah Orion really makes it
storm jungle
Cyrus could kill the entire hivefleet and I wouldn't mind
Hes that smooth
Anyone else though now that'd be bad
cursive hull
He'd be mad about it the whole fuckin' time.
Also yeah.
It makes sense your reconnaissance specialist and stealthiest dude on the team is the best at the surgical strikes you're doing
Also, the "Throne of Explosives" (Democharge thrown onto a det pack.) along with... I think its a sniper rifle that fires a delayed explosive charge into a target?
cursive hull
Meanwhile, Jonah Orion telling perils of the warp to go fuck itself as he shits out smites/avengers/vortex's of doom, most of it for free while being practically invincible cuz he keeps healing himself and speeding himself up.
Frankly speaking?
Dawn of War 2 is a cake walk whenever the Tyranids are involved. Its almost comical how non-threatening they are if you bring Cyrus, and you really should.
crisp heath
This sounds like someone trying to make it out that Dawn of War 2 is canon and h...
I really didn't get the feel they were doing it singlehandedly. Half the vanilla campaign is either helping other BR, waiting for help from other BR or getting help from the imperial government
Also they frequently mention guard units failing to deal with eldar, tyranids, implying they are fighting there
It's more just you're there for the decisive surgical strikes
The system wasn't just saved by you
You were providing relief and plugging leaks to a wider front
cursive hull
No, but you as the Force Commander are the lynch pin to Imperial victory.
The fact that if you personally fail to keep Tyranid infestation in check you lose the campaign makes it ultimately clear that its still a bit absurd.
Yes, there are guard units in the system, tons of em and plenty of other Blood Ravens around, but they kinda make it clear you're doing the heavy lifting.
crisp heath
Yeah but even when you are dealing with Tyranid threats, you aren't going on a mission to exterminate them but to either defend a key asset or eliminate a synapse creature
You're not forming a frontline or holding it
Someone's there, even if it's just turrets
I think DoW1's latter 2 expansions are far more guilty of that tbh
Imperial Guard General roams around the planet wiping out everything in his path with OP honour guard and his army never gets too thinned out no matter how much area he holds or losses he takes
Or y'know 300 Space Marines holding an entire planet
Which is somehow in canon described as a regular thing?
restive turtle
Depends, against humans its because they kill the leadership and do guerrilla warfare, with aliens it can be this combined with mass killing or just that the invasion force isn't that big.
crisp heath
They are specifically depicted in dc and ss holding bases and having garrisons, there is literally a purchase garrison option
Meh it doesn't matter anyways
I just don't think DoW2's portrayal is bad. I found it incredibly refreshing a decade ago and it left me with a big positive impression regarding how well it, imho, depicted SM being impactful. Surgical strikes, bolstering up a general effort
Not doing it all by themselves and even often being told stuff like "The Guard will take it from here" by Derosa
cursive hull
Its definitely a better interpretation than usual.
restive turtle
DoW1 was more more similar to Starcraft by throwing endless Marines into the meat grinder. No clue how they did it in lore.
Besides having Terminators standing on top of morphing Rhinos/Land Raiders wielding Multilazorz.
crisp heath
Rediscovering geneseed every battle
I just imagine a space marine having it removed and then inserted back in every battle
proper helm
So when the Guard actually forms an army, do regiments get lumped into proper divisions?
cursive hull
More or less?
They somewhat have to coordinate closely, given most Regiments are heavily specialized.
I think the two most flexible Regimental types the Guard has is Mechanized/Motorized and Infantry, even then, they're often intentionally lacking things like artillery, aircraft, heavy armor, etc.
So it follows that Regiments would be grouped to cover one another's weaknesses.
proper helm
Yeah, I imagine your average infantry regiment being allowed a dedicated mortar company, but no real big guns like the earthshakers for that reason
hmm, you know I feel like at this point "your average" is very slightly a dirty word when talking about 40k lore
cursive hull
I believe that's more or less accurate.
Its not like they can't have none of those other things, its just they're not allowed to have very much and not usually of any real significant power.
Also, its not entirely a dirty word. Depends on the regiment and thing we're talking about.
proper helm
Yeah, I just sorta meant in general. There's at least one opposite example for everything in it at this point
cursive hull
There is.
median sundial
Did the Emperor actually try to ban religion or is it something the fandom blew out of proportion?
storm jungle
Yes he did
The guy pretty much destroyed every church in the world during the unification wars so its why he's pretty much seen as a member of r/atheism
weak fern
One question, what became the Solar Auxilia after the HH ?
cursive hull
It should be noted, Emps banned religion partially out of an attempt to weaken the Chaos gods by depriving them of sources of worship. Course, that's not how they work.
I don't know how aware of this he was, but I think by time the Heresy hit he realized it wasn't working.
Least, it would have been a pretty damn good sign it wasn't working.
The other reasons mostly have to do with Religious division being something he wanted to avoid.
vapid tiger
The only exception he made was the Mechanicum
simply because they were too good of allies to pass up
And they weren't quite as religious as they are by 40k
but still religious
cursive hull
Well, that, and their religion was ultimately more a cargo cult than an actual full blown religion.
vapid tiger
Yeah
storm jungle
It's a mix of that and as usual bad writing
cursive hull
It was more the worship and obsession with knowledge than anything else.
storm jungle
because with the Siege of Terra the writers are sneaking in the thing with Malcador where hes like "let them pray to Big E maybe it will do some magic shit"
since in the original lore it was pretty stupid and weird on Big E's part so at least they're trying to fix it a bit so it makes sense with modern 40k
vapid tiger
It was more the worship and obsession with knowledge than anything else.
I mean yeah but the hh novels also establish that they definitely worshipped the Omnissiah as a god, or at least that's my impression
But at times it feels like they're worshipping the Omnissiah as more of an ideal compared to 40k
cursive hull
Well, not really the Omnissiah
Its a trinity
The Machine God, the Omnissiah, and the motive force.
vapid tiger
ya
glad prism
Part of their compromise to Terra, and the Emperor being one of the facets of the Omnissiah, or his avatar anyway
cursive hull
Primarily because Big E could mysteriously fix anything merely by touching it
Probably some psychic fuckery
But if it works, it works.
vapid tiger
Yeah
Imperial Truth was waived with them with the excuse that "ehhhhhhh they're not quite imperial but we don't talk about that"
cursive hull
Well that and they'd literally not be able to get the great crusade off the ground without the Mechanicum.
vapid tiger
Yeah that too
cursive hull
The Mechanicum had ships and tech required for the Crusade.
vapid tiger
It was a necessary compromise
But it helps that the Mechanicum was more of a seperate, extremely ingrained ally to the Imperium compared to the later Adeptus Mechanicus which is directly part of the Imperium
cursive hull
Sorta kinda, yeah.
Well, there's still some separation with the Mechanicus, but not as much as the Mechanicum
High ranking Mechanicus can and do often tell Inquisitors to go fuck themselves.
storm jungle
"I swear we sent you your tanks they must have gotten lost in transport or something!"
cursive hull
Losing a thousand baneblade heavy tanks intensifies
...I wonder if the Mechanicus bothers the Dark Angels about retrieving some of their cooler toys.
Like Sammael's jetbike
weak fern
cursive hull
Not like they'd do anything with it other than put it in storage and worship it as a relic, given they believe reverse engineering is heresy and is genuinely too risky.
But it does seem like a Mechanicus thing to do.
Bother someone who has cool tech until they give it to them.
cursive hull
(Or steal it)
crisp heath
what you're telling me is that
the next GW plot reveal is
the Emperor is secretly the father of all Orks too
🤔
cursive hull
Theeeen again
Maybe the AdMech already have a few Crusade/Heresy era jetbikes laying around.
coarse mirage
Came across someone who said it was counterintuitive that the Tyranids use cults to weaken planets before invasion when their thing is overwhelming numbers.
cursive hull
Wat
Counter intuitive? That's just...
I don't think they understand how war works.
You want every last advantage you can get.
So what it doesn't fit their stereotype? It makes sense and is good strategy.
atomic pelican
The funniest part abt that complaint is that genestealers pre-date actual tyranids by technicality and fluff
They are the vanguard after all
That and overwhelming numbers is a oversimplification
gaunt vector
I only recently discovered how genestealers generate their cults. ||Specifically the bit where they inject the "hippity hoppity your parental instincts are now the brood mind's property"|| and man that is hecked up
atomic pelican
gaunt vector
nah
atomic pelican
To quote
To think that Tyranids are mindless beasts is a grave mistake. When you fight Tyranids you face not only those before you on the battlefield, but the untold thousands which seek to surround you, which attack your supporting units and destroy your supply lines in perfect synchronicity. These aliens have shown evidence of both tactics and strategy that speaks of a far worse threat than that posed by a mere beast.
Nids dont just swarm
Theyre guided by a great intelligence
cursive hull
Well, yeah.
They're basically a macro-organism constantly evolving to best kick your ass.
gaunt vector
Theyre guided by a great intelligence
yeah its the hive mind not the hive dumbass
gaunt vector
lmao
storm jungle
Theyre guided by a great intelligence
Not when its against the Imperium and Calgar's big hands
atomic pelican
His massive hands easily outdid them
How can one even compete with the mits
Well, until swarmlord took them but
gaunt vector
Hivesmoothmind
fun fact: painting ur tyranids with smooth/ gloss paint will make them dumber than if u paint them in matte (this works even better if you do NOT thin your paints first!) then they will be more intelligent!
storm jungle
I do love how the Nid's first big gig was gonna be so awesome then GW just came in and was like "hey kid change of plans, throw some punches first but then you gotta get knocked out by the Ultramarines"
atomic pelican
Incredibly smart and glossy
cursive hull
Big daddy Calgar spanking the swarmlord
atomic pelican
I think the tyrannic wars were p good up until recently
Since Cawl just confirmed he can asspull entire new biospheres and soil for baal and macragge
Atleast before it was a pyrrhic victory
restive turtle
I mean it still takes time for Cawl and he is among the few who can do it
gaunt vector
Since Cawl just confirmed he can asspull entire new biospheres and soil for baal...
Baal was always dead anyway. The hive mind only went there because it was grumpy
dim totem
Question about tyranids
restive turtle
You are not yourself when you're hungry, eat a Snickers.
dim totem
Those weird guns they have
gaunt vector
You are not yourself when you're hungry, eat a Snickers.
*sector
restive turtle
Thaz what I said
gaunt vector
lmao
restive turtle
ish
dim totem
Are those biological guns they're holding or just part of their body?
storm jungle
Biological