40k-lore-chat

[barren tapir]

Red>blue

[storm jungle]

[gaunt vector]

yes

[glad prism]

Vibes

[open marsh]

? There are a handful of them, but deff not everyone of them

[odd sparrow]

space marine discussions are invalid

[glad prism]

Having an emblem be vaguely pointy and reminiscent of another doesn't mean they're descended from x or y

[odd sparrow]

they're a necessary evil so GW gets its money

[glad prism]

Someone just thought it was cool

[open marsh]

Um...Okay??

[gaunt vector]

There is a loyal chapter which has the exact same symbol as the death guard

[barren tapir]

The mighty unplaugued marines?

[gaunt vector]

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Sons_of_Medusa

[open marsh]

Normally it takes more than just the emblem. You have to look closer at the chapter. It's combat style. Its behaviors. etc.

[barren tapir]

Oh, they, funny story theirs

[vapid tiger]

Sons of Medusa are like

definitely not from traitor stock

[glad prism]

Coincidences do exist, be it deliberate or not on the writer's part.

[gaunt vector]

I know, but someone made a comment about the symbol so I brought this up to show that there is more to it than the symbol

[open marsh]

Yup

[gaunt vector]

to u perhaps but I love them

[open marsh]

idk where some people get the take that I just reduce if they are traitor stock or not based on 1 single thing about them, like an emblem.

[odd sparrow]

boring metal men begone bring me the interesting factions

[vapid tiger]

The only chapters that are super on the nose about being from traitor stock are some of the ultima founding chapters

[odd sparrow]

excepting the blood ravens

im emotionally attached to them

[vapid tiger]

Eh

[gaunt vector]

if you look hard enough for a comparison u will find it even if it is dumb

[vapid tiger]

Blood Ravens are still ambigious enough

[odd sparrow]

nah i meant i like the blood ravens

[odd tulip]

'haha sons of the phoenix are totally from loyalist stock guys'

[open marsh]

Saying they are "ambiguous" is a stretch. Those boyos are Tsons and we love them for it

[gaunt vector]

ok, go find their content. let me keep my metal clad lads

they are cool

[odd sparrow]

ur taste in plastic crack is weak and ur bloodline shall fade

[gaunt vector]

yeah we're not ECs, not at all

[odd tulip]

Nothing EC here at all!

[gaunt vector]

ur commitment to this is as suprising as ur insults are ineffective

[barren tapir]

We could say that... They stole your heart

[open marsh]

Covenent of Fire pokes their head in "Hey....have you heard the word of Lorgar I mean Vulkan?"

[gaunt vector]

absolutely nothing

[barren tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-punchline-gif-7320811

[vapid tiger]

I'd say it's a weird situation with the blood ravens simply because it's a case of multiple writers having different ideas of where they come from and hinting that ended up leading nowhere and being redirected explicitly to keep it unconfirmed

Compared to the likes of the Sons of the Phoenix they're tame

[odd sparrow]

blood ravens primarch is actually a pygmy

[open marsh]

The "hints" of them being Tsons continues even in the Index.

Wait. wasnt it you who really wants them to be Word Bearers because of the planet they come from being called Aurellian?

[odd sparrow]

GW is covering it up

[gaunt vector]

I like to think that the Blood Ravens are the new army that the Emperor promised to Magnus at the Siege of Terra

[vapid tiger]

Exactly, the hints keep going back and forth

[open marsh]

[barren tapir]

Aurelia, not aurellian, and it was one of many

[open marsh]

They....really dont tho. The Word Bearers thing pretty much ends at the name of their world. While more and more built up about them being Tsons.

If you want loyalist word bearers, check out the Covenant of Fire

[gaunt vector]

they have a lot of psykers, are stable (which is probably the update to the TS geneseed that the emperor had made for them), their primarch is a secret and they are nerds, who hoard artifacts and knowledge

[open marsh]

[barren tapir]

Their geneseed isn't really stable though

[vapid tiger]

So you get to the first game and its expansions and there's not a lot of hints about it outside of "we have a weird focus on librarians and don't know who our primarch is"

Then the 1k sons thing starts getting pushed starting with Goto and sort of continuing into DOW 2

Then we get Arvida and that story being so obvious about it that it was soft confirmed

[gaunt vector]

it is by 15th legion standards

[barren tapir]

Touché

[vapid tiger]

And then

"Okay now make him Janus"

"And then have multiple authors repeat that they're not 1k sons successors because it was probably said in some editing meeting"

And then years afterwards it starts getting pushed again in 8th ed

[open marsh]

By multiple authors you mean just Aaron Dempski "Only Abbadon is Chaos Unidivided" Bowden?

[vapid tiger]

ADB and I remember someone else saying it

But I also remember there being some huge drama that stemmed from an IP manager that got hired by GW who is the guy mainly responsible for Revuel Arvida's story instead leading into Janus rather than the Blood Ravens explicitly because he hated the idea of Blood Ravens being from traitor genestock at all, who probably told ADB and presumably others this in a conversation, and then ADB repeated it to fans

i can't remember the manager's name

i do remember that he was some horus heresy fan forum moderator or something before he got hired by gw and has since left gw or something

[open marsh]

Whats funny is Arvida becoming Janus actually furthers the links to the Blood Ravens. Since it explains how they have mostly avoided the Flesh Change and Rubric effects

[vapid tiger]

It kind of does, but it's a known fact that it was originally an attempt to pivot away from that

[open marsh]

Also for this wondering, this is in the 8e Index: Blood Ravens:

[open marsh]

An attempt that seems to have failed horribly. With even GW telling writers like ABD to not.

[vapid tiger]

My theory is that it has gone from "they're 1k sons successors" to "they're totally not stfu" back to "they're 1k sons successors"

Which is supported by the fact that apparently GW's handling of the IP and the Black Library go through "phases" where how things are handled radically shift every few years

[cerulean wagon]

yeah its down to current management

last shift was just after AOS launch

[open marsh]

Sort of yeah. It was "they are tsons". Then ABD had a fit because he cant stand traitor legion successors. Then GW told him to shut up and they are back on track as Tsons successors.

Plus whose word are you going to take? "Talon of Horus" ABD. or Dan Abbett, the guy writing DarkTide

Since it was Dan that gave us soft confirmation that the Blood Ravens are Tsons

(borderline hard confirm)

[vapid tiger]

I don't think ADB has anything to do with it, he hasn't written blood ravens ever and is just another writer. I think he just passed along some information at one point which has now been changed

Especially since ADB now goes "well there's several chapters from traitor geneseed it's just that no one is allowed to explicitly confirm them as such"

I'm convinced the man is just mentioning information on his mind from author meetings and putting it on his blog

[open marsh]

He did. Thats where all the confusion originally started. After the release of Prospero Burns (Dan Abbett), ABD went ballistic and got on one of the forums popular at the time and said that Blood Ravens arent Tsons

And yeah, his change in stance comes from GW smacking him upside the back of the head

[odd sparrow]

this is what happens when u get unhealthily obsessed with canon

[vapid tiger]

He has mentioned before that he used to get "too uppity" or something about his own personal preferences before having some conversation about 40k not having canon

with some higher up

And I'm not sure about "smacking him upside the head"

i think some people are way too attached to a narrative that adb is some mustache twirling villain at black library who gw has to constantly wrangle because they don't like that his novels have women in them or portray the emperor as a shitty person rather than sigmar in space

[open marsh]

Eh its more that he wanted to try and retcon things like make Abbadon the only champion of Chaos Undivided. To retcon out Lorgar, Perturabo, and Be'lakor. etc

Because he wanted Abbadon to be the most specialest chaos boy ever

[storm jungle]

Mood tbh

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/643088187123695630/835564250671480842/canonfanfanonenjoyer.mp4

[vapid tiger]

I think his "chaos undivided" rant a while back was dumb yeah but I can somewhat see what he was trying to get across

It seems that he was conflating the idea of "chaos undivided" with "chaos ascendant," the latter of which is exclusive the Abaddon, Horus and Be'lakor

And possibly Lorgar and Perturabo but that's up in the air until we get more details on their ascension

Blog was an overly zealous rant though

about fucking abaddon

[open marsh]

yeh

[vapid tiger]

I understand that ADB and GW at large want to eliminate the idea of Abaddon being a joke among the fandom since apparently it confuses them, and I sympathize with that goal, but it seems that they also don't understand why he's a joke

Well, ADB might but if he did he wouldn't be able to say it out loud anyway

They don't seem to understand that in order for Abaddon to be a threat you have to make him threatening to the readers

Which the Black Legion series accomplishes, and the additional details about Abaddon achieving his goals in each BC helps with, but then they turn around and go "and then the vengeful spirit gets its ass kicked at vigilus and abaddon runs with his tail between his legs"

They desperately want Abaddon to be viewed as 40k's Archaon because that's exactly what he is, but the studio writers don't actually want to bother with making him come across as scary in the same vein as Archaon

A Black Library series, details about Abaddon achieving his goals, even Cadia falling doesn't help when you go right back to Failbaddon the Armless in the next story he's featured in

But that's also something that affects everyone in 40k that isn't imperial unless you're lamenters

It's a symptom of a wider issue

[plucky moth]

Abaddon also doesn't look as cool

[dim totem]

oh big text

luckily i am illiterate

[primal tide]

Hell yeah dude, I forgot how to read yesterday myself

[atomic pelican]

Just port archaon into 40k so he can oneshot abaddon with Kingslayer

[storm jungle]

Theres actually a oneshot fanfic about that its amazing

the chaos gods just teleport Archaon to the bridge of the vengeful spirit and he beats the shit out of him

its a crack-fic but still gets me

[atomic pelican]

LMAO

[frosty cobalt]

where do u read all ur fanfic, cause ao3 has v little or am i just not looking hard enough

[storm jungle]

AO3 funnily enough

[frosty cobalt]

dang

[storm jungle]

fanfic.net is really bad imo

[frosty cobalt]

ill look harder lol

[storm jungle]

AO3's format is really helpful

[frosty cobalt]

always has been

[storm jungle]

lmao yep

also yeah you hit it on the head sadly the 40k section for AO3 is incredibly desolate

compared to like any other fandom where you get fics on a daily basis

[frosty cobalt]

cough rpf cough

[vapid tiger]

honestly if archaon appeared in 40k right now, wrested control from Abaddon and made him his right hand bitch I'd be excited

though it would imply that 40k is one of the multiple universes Archaon is implied to have destroyed before aos in addition to warhammer fantasy

[storm jungle]

Speaking of

A tear opened up in front of him, a hole in time and space. "This one has been particularly impressive," Tzeentch said. "Another realm where we are also present. Our powers are much weaker there, it is so much smaller. But it produced such wonderful results. Including a champion that truly and irreversibly made it ours. We have no further use for it not, but it would be a shame to let his magnificent talents go to waste. Archaon the Everchosen."

The portal widened and a man stepped out. He was tall by regular human standards, but short compared to Abbadon. Clad in red armor as opposed to Abaddon's black, he looked as if he was from a feudal world. Nothing on his person was technologically advanced. His armor was plate, from the horns on his helmet to the skulls on the chest, to his shield styled in the eight-pointed star, to his long, two-handed sword. The sword, however, burned with its own fire. Doubtless, a Greater Daemon lurked within it.

What truly drew Abbadon's eye, however, was the crown that rested upon Archaon's full helmet. A wrought iron crown with a deep blue gem in the center of it. It wasn't a sapphire, the color of it was too deep to be natural. Tzeentch's mark.

Archaon looked around the bridge of the Vengeful Spirit. His eyes, burning like hot coals, blinked. "Where is Dorghar?" he asked simply.

"You'll have your horse back when we're done with you," Khorne growled. "We've another world for you to reshape in our image. It's far more than just one planet, and you'll be leading armies far beyond what you've done before. Ensure that you're up to the task, do not invoke our displeasure!"

Archaon's eyes turned to focus on Abbadon, the Warmaster's temper writing like a burning bonfire. If the situation had been slightly different, the Talon of Horus would have already peeled this feudal savage to pieces the second he had stepped onto his bridge. The presence of all four gods was the only thing that stayed his hand. "Abbadon will either serve you as a subordinate or become a Daemon Prince," Tzeentch said. "He has long since earned his ascension to Daemonhood. But his time as Warmaster is over. We will impart you with all the needed knowledge about this new world, your armies and the technologies that have been made available."

Archaon nodded. Then, half a second later, took a step back to lift his shield up. The Talon of Horus clashed into the eight-pointed star. Abbadon snarled, his arm and terminator armor both straining with as much strength as was possible. Archaon was grunting with the strain of keeping the talon at bay but was holding firm. Abbadon's mind raced. Even with the blessings of the Powers, the man before him should have crumpled under the strain, what with his lack of power armor. "What is this?" he hissed.

"Archaon exceeded our expectations," Nurgle said good-naturedly. "He battled against a reincarnated god, not unlike the Anathema. The god failed to defend his realm, Archaon rendered it asunder. An entire realm destroyed, far more thoroughly than you have ever managed. As such, we rewarded our most outstanding disciple accordingly. The greatest blessings we have ever bestowed for our true Everchosen."

"Be wise," Archaon said, his voice cold. "I would have use for a warrior of your caliber. But if you dare to raise your hand against me again, I will flay your body, your mind, and then your very soul until nothing is left. I have felled better than you long before I was given these new gifts. Do not be so eager to rush to your death." As a response, the storm bolter on the wrist of the talon burst to life, aiming directly at the crown Archaon was wearing. Whatever it was, it had to be a powerful artifact. He would take it for himself if he could, but if not it needed to be destroyed.

Archaon asking where his horse is amazing

[frosty cobalt]

mans got priorities, if i was a chaos warlord, the only one i could trust to talk to would prolly be my horse or hound

[vapid tiger]

The implication that 40k is one of Archaon's many trials leading up to AoS in that fanfic is hilarious

[storm jungle]

God I know, like i said its probably suppose to be comedic but its still great

and might as well provide the source: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13195248/1/The-Despoiler-s-Plight

I was wrong it wasnt from AO3, faulty memory

[frosty cobalt]

LOL i was about to say

thanks tho ill give it a read

[storm jungle]

[frosty cobalt]

god u make me wanna get nitro just so i can steal all ur fantastic 40k emotes

[atomic pelican]

Same. Lov Archaon

I rlly wanna start building Slaves to darknesd just for him

[frosty cobalt]

not for sigvalds assless armor? thats why i wanna start fantasy

[storm jungle]

a valorous goal imo

[frosty cobalt]

(idk if thats how u spell that name)

i mean its such a funny and fantastic design

i hate it so much that i love it

[lusty osprey]

Would be kek if Abaddon got replaced by Archaon

[open marsh]

Sigvald is one of the few things I like in AoS that doesnt have a close equivalent in 40k.

[atomic pelican]

New sigvald good too

[open marsh]

40k should delete Lucius the Eternal and replace with the Silver Knight. Who can be 40k's version of Sigvald

[storm jungle]

Isnt that Fulgrim

even though he hasnt done anything important in lore for like the last 30 years

[frosty cobalt]

i just want perty and guli to have a logistics-off

and both hate on lorgar together

[open marsh]

Too sneky

Needs less snek, and more assless chaps

[open marsh]

Pert would win. Given how much that Guilliman had to copy off of him to even make his Codex Astartes

[frosty cobalt]

perts better with the tech, guli is better with people, it be a close fight

[gusty fulcrum]

Pert fights like a 40k tabeltop gamer

or like a strategy game

like total war

To him his troops are just units in a game cuz dont they say in his novel he will just straight up hijack there bodies with some kinda implant and control them like its game of command and conquer?

[frosty cobalt]

he has incredible battlefield control, with access to marines picture and sound if he wants and can give orders directly, but i dont remember anything about mind control

[gusty fulcrum]

Im reading the wiki right now for stuff bout him cuz i had initially read that on 1d4chan so it mighta just been they way they wrote it

I thought Pert wasnt considered a true deamon prince?

CUz he didnt go for that and it was the result of like suped up obliterator virus that changed him

[gusty fulcrum]

huh so far the wiki doesnt really get into teh details of how he really led his troops

Just keeps pointing out his cold ruthlessness and corpse grinding

[open marsh]

Read Hammer of Olympia, The Emperor's Architect, and listen to the audio drama Stone and Iron

[open marsh]

This is why you cant trust wikis

[gusty fulcrum]

Ya im just gonna go to 1d4chan and see if that peice i read is still there

I think its kinda funny how google wont acknowledge its back up and running

cuz whne ya google it all the links it gives say its still down

ya gotta try and go duck duck go or just manually type it in

the changed it from com to org

but theyve been updating stuff on teh site so who knows if the bit is still there

Ok my bad i misrememebred he just akes direct control of the machines an shit

Perturabo would enact it himself by plugging straight into the data feeds and absorbing all the info at once, circumventing the chain of command and issuing orders directly to squads, taking direct control of gun turrets and mechanised units and plotting their firing trajectories, even taking over starship systems and running them himself.

But either way would backseat drive individual squads ignoring wahtever skills teh actaul squad might have had

Thus lies the problem: Perturabo is a general as much as any player of Warhammer 40,000 is a "general": he sees the battlefield in terms of units with stat blocks; every soldier can be reduced to a number based on his armament or capability which would factor in to his arithmetic of war. Even Guilliman recognised the random nature of war and how small moments of heroism could change the flow of battle; other generals could trust their men to follow their orders to the best of their abilities and even exceed them from time to time and pull off something spectacular. On the other hand, in sincerely believing in his own superiority Perturabo would micromanage everything and instead remove the agency of his officers and men. His soldiers would never get their chance to succeed or fail on their own terms and were essentially reduced to minis on a tabletop. Which in turn would make his men paranoid, wondering if they would be thrown away into the grinder or be blamed for failure when they couldn't match Perturabo's expectations.

thats the part im getting mixed up with him taking direct control

Man i gotta get the books centered around him

[coarse mirage]

I did not read that.

[storm jungle]

basically

all the primarchs are overrated

the plot in the end demands who wins and loses lol

so all these boasts about "this primarch would beat the others ass" is usually pointless

[gusty fulcrum]

Fiar

[coarse mirage]

:p

[cloud kindle]

yeah but.....

who doesnt want to see corax beat the shit out of lorgar again

[errant mauve]

11th Primarch > 2nd Primarch

[cerulean wagon]

these are numbers

[open marsh]

What do the numbers mean, Mason?!

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/何もない-ナッシング-ゼロ-つまらない-退屈-gif-15680851

[karmic gulch]

Who actually knows about the primarchs who rebelled?

There was a scene in some book where someone was surprised to find more primarchs on a old picture than there are loyalist primarchs

[errant mauve]

Malcador, Big E, and some if not all the primarchs

[storm jungle]

Yeah and if lucky like a few REALLY old imperial officials

[karmic gulch]

In modern 40k

[storm jungle]

Almost nobody in that case

[errant mauve]

Ah.

Lost to sands of time, more than likely.

[storm jungle]

^

[karmic gulch]

Would the high lords of terra know?

They are basically the first in most chains of command

[storm jungle]

Its unlikely because the people holding their positions tend to change

especially now with Guilliman's purge of half its members

the traitor primarchs are basically treated like multiple Satans, aka someone you should know is evil in the religious texts and simplified as "these are bigger demonic bad dudes" in some holy books a regular imperial citizen would read

[karmic gulch]

So cawl would probably know right?

[storm jungle]

Oh absolutely, he was around during the Heresy

[errant mauve]

I'd honestly say the most educated of High Lords would be lucky to know about Perturabo and Lorgar.

[karmic gulch]

Put angron aswell in that group

And you got the 3 most active traitor legions and their primarchs

[errant mauve]

The only reason why I don't put Angron/Magnus/Morty in there is because they're very emphasized in recent Imperial Guard campaigns, Armageddon, Plague war and all that.

[storm jungle]

Yeah tbh aside from that the traitor primarchs have absolutely done nothing for the lore

Unless popping up like two times in the last 10 years counts

Morty is the most active one at the moment at least

[errant mauve]

My headcanon is that Perturabo is a massive pain in the arse to Imperial Logistics, given than we learn he has an entire Empire(!!!!) in segmentum tempestus(I think, it's been a while) in Faith and Fury. But given the fact that it was IW not written by Graham McNeil it was and never will be expanded upon ever again.

[storm jungle]

it was never expanded upon ever again.
Sounds like 40k lore alright

[errant mauve]

Ha

[storm jungle]

[errant mauve]

GW please release a new IW book I have read the Honsou Omnibus 8 times already

[storm jungle]

denied

[errant mauve]

I am going to invent a time machine and travel back in time 11 years and tell young me to get into Blood Angels or something

[storm jungle]

I agree it is the sexier legion

[errant mauve]

Then again

Is becoming a Mephiston fan really worth it?

I don't think so

[storm jungle]

He's a literal walking jojo character

not in a good way either

[errant mauve]

Have you read Darkness in the Blood?

[storm jungle]

Yup!

like around the time it first came out

[errant mauve]

Did you like it

[storm jungle]

[errant mauve]

What? You mean you don't like Mephiston ||becoming a second Astronomicon?||

[storm jungle]

god the part where he does a ZA WARUDO killed me tho ngl

https://tenor.com/view/za-warudo-toki-wo-tomare-gif-8629953

[errant mauve]

That is the power of my stand: 「Guy Haley's Random BS」Abaddon! I can do whatever I want!

[storm jungle]

[final spruce]

[gaunt vector]

Mephiston is honestly one of my favourite characters

mostly because of the "oh heck what the fuk is he going to do this time?" effect

[coarse mirage]

I just looked him up and yeah it reads like a Jojo character

Mephiston awakened his kekei genkai and went super sayian

[storm jungle]

Yeah I wasnt joking

it made me take a pause

[coarse mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-ultra-instinct-dragon-ball-super-gif-11395844

Mephiston

"Orkz? You can't stop the power of friendship."

[gusty fulcrum]

Wut

[serene eagle]

The true answer to any VS GULLIMAN argument is that Gulliman loses the battle, then wins the war because Logistics lul

[open marsh]

Mephiston looks like someone from the Emperor's Children

[glad prism]

Fulgrim doesn't have a monopoly on being pretty. Also, that's more traditionally vampiric looking than Fulgrim.

[ashen zenith]

You consider that to be pretty?

[storm jungle]

ye

[open marsh]

I never understood why people think a gaunt corpse looks attractive

[storm jungle]

Thats just one artwork among many

[open marsh]

I mean about vampires in general

[storm jungle]

Because... they're not corpses?

Vampires change from media to media

not every one of them is undead either

[open marsh]

I still fail to see the attractiveness

[storm jungle]

Thats probably just a you thing

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/castlevania/images/2/21/Alucard_(animated_series)_-_01.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180801070148

[glad prism]

Just look up some other art if you don't see it there

Or use your ✨ imagination ✨

[storm jungle]

[open marsh]

Still dont see it

[storm jungle]

[glad prism]

Damn, you lack imagination too?

Rip

[open marsh]

no? I just dont see whats attractive about him

But if we are already going to insults, Ill be blunt. You are a jackass

[storm jungle]

But yeah they're just attractive, im not sure whats really more there to explain about it.

[glad prism]

So true, bestie 💚

[open marsh]

See thats a fair answer

[storm jungle]

👍

[proven condor]

I'm comfortable enough in my masculinity to assert I would smash the shit out of Alucard

[storm jungle]

Alucard is stan

hes basically a twink version of Sanguinius

[proven condor]

Deffo a power bottom

[storm jungle]

[glad prism]

My man's a verse and proud of it

[proven condor]

Proven in the show too

[storm jungle]

[glad prism]

UwU

[open marsh]

Now i do see the attractiveness here. Just look at him

[coarse mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-philip-j-fry-heart-beat-in-love-heart-gif-5162648

[storm jungle]

A good scruffy beard for starters

[open marsh]

Yesssss

Tho its not scruffy. Its so well kept

A man of class and culture

[median canyon]

Most adorable one in all 40k by far

[open marsh]

I like him because he broke tradition and restored his dad's axe

[median canyon]

He beats the shit out of Erebus

Everybody likes him

[open marsh]

They copied that scene from Saints Row 2

[coarse mirage]

fucking finally a book does what I complain at other books for: an important guard actually had a heart monitor so when he was killed it triggered an alarm

[odd sparrow]

maybe i do just have a thing for blonde twunks tbh

that said, dracula is also the ultimate dilf

no i do not care that he's happily married

[gaunt vector]

😄

[odd sparrow]

i dont really like lion tho. idk

i think i'm just meh about beards

[gaunt vector]

u can't put a Lion's mane on a human without the beard

[dim totem]

Why do all primarchs have cool names except

Lion L jonson

[storm jungle]

Because obvious novel reference is obvious

[dim totem]

No disrespect to the poet but

[storm jungle]

and yeah i get what you mean, theres a reason everybody calls him the lion

instead of "Hey Johnson, whats up"

[dim totem]

Yeah but

It's so on the nose

[storm jungle]

ikr

[gaunt vector]

I don't get the reference

what is it?

[dim totem]

Uhhh

Lionel Johnson is a writer

[gaunt vector]

oh

[dim totem]

If that is what you mean?

[gaunt vector]

yeah I think it is

I just didn't realise that

[dim totem]

The others all have cool names

No jokes I think Roboute Guilliman is a great name

It's outlandish and isnt

[gaunt vector]

yeah

[dim totem]

Sale with like Lehman Russ

[odd tulip]

It also lends itself well to memes

[dim totem]

It sounds like it could be a real name but it isnt

[gaunt vector]

Well I always found it a little odd that Ferrus Hands has the name name as Iron Manus

[median canyon]

It is forbidden to pronounce it correctly u know

[dim totem]

Yeah true

About ferrus Manus I mean

[storm jungle]

Iron Hand Hand Iron

[gaunt vector]

Iron Hands was using an Iron by holding it in his Hands

[dim totem]

Does wh40k do the uh

Noun+noun or variations thereof

For last names of characters?

It's a fantasy trope I dislike

Whf does it

So does warcraft

[gaunt vector]

I'm not entirely sure what u mean by that, pls could u give an example?

[dim totem]

Like in warcraft you got a bunch of names like

[median canyon]

kharn the betrayer means betrayer the betrayer

[dim totem]

Windrunner

[odd tulip]

Yo we talkin about Robert gorillaman in here?

[dim totem]

Sunstrider

[median canyon]

if thats wat u ask

[gaunt vector]

oh ok

[median canyon]

ye about rawboot girlyman

[gaunt vector]

Robot Gorillaman

[dim totem]

Guess it's a pet peeve people don't share then

[odd tulip]

I recognise that it exists but I cannot say it bothers me

in fact, it arguably makes sense. In history, most surnames were gained by simply doing something repeatedly. Smith, Fletcher, Thatcher, etc.

[storm jungle]

@dim totem Oh ABSOLUTELY, the most guilty one is orks but it fits their blunt nature with names like Gitstompa

The Imperium has some incredibly cringe ones tho

like

Emil Darkhammer

[dim totem]

With orks I don't mind

[storm jungle]

Yeee like i said

but every faction uses them

Imperium and Eldar the most iirc

[dim totem]

I guess it's sort of like whatchamacallit

[odd tulip]

Does Farsight count?

[storm jungle]

Yeah it counts but i think barely since its pretty cool as much as these names go

meanwhile Emil Darkhammer is

some imperials have really ridiculous names like that in general

Right next to Admiral Bonetopick

[dim totem]

I'm pretty sure it came bout from Tolkien reading Norse mythology

How grendel would have nicknames in beowulf

Usually word+word

[storm jungle]

Yeah i think with lotr is just titles and not surnames tho, like Aragon being dubbed the "Strider" and such etc

[dim totem]

Lotr does it idd

But you could say lotr is OG

At this point I do think it's lazy when others do it

I do think uh

Aragorns name in quenya was ellesar isn't it?

Elfstone

Anyway it's not really important

It's just a pet peeve after over thinking stuff

[storm jungle]

Yeee its a fair one tho dont worry

[dim totem]

I'm just glad most primarchs have good names

And whf seems worse in that regard

But most of my whf knowledge is from total war so take from that what you will

For me it'd be better if it was acknowledged like

This ridiculous surname is actually a nickname

/ rant over

[storm jungle]

Yeah warhammer fantasy is a lot more cheesy with it

it kinda matches with 40k's spectrum at times

[median canyon]

I always think primarchs are themes instead of individuals thus their name is usually about their theme

Angron, angry

conrad curze

well cursed

vulkan, volcano

etc

[odd tulip]

Vulkan is actually based on Vulcan, the Roman name for Hephaestus, the god of the forge

[median canyon]

Hah maybe word volcano comes from ancient greek than

[odd tulip]

Almost certainly. F's in chat for Pompeii

[open marsh]

F in chat for the guy who died in Pompeii while masterbating

||he wasnt really masterbating, but it looks like it||

[barren tapir]

F

[final spruce]

Went out with a bang

[dim totem]

How can you tell he wasn't

Charred man with hand on groin as if he was spanking the monkey

[tawdry wyvern]

Conrad curze was a reference to Joseph Conrad and George antoine Kurtz or Walter e. Kurtz too

And the character in the movie or book was quite emo edgy too at the end

[gusty fulcrum]

Well your not entirly wrong each was meant to be shard of teh emperors own personality and by extension aspects of the human mindset/personality in general

Vulkan is the emperors comapssion,humanity and for some reason pyromania

[gaunt vector]

his emotional warmth became litteral

[gusty fulcrum]

Curze was his sense of law and ordered but twisted

[gaunt vector]

Angron was his empathy but then got butchers nailed

[gusty fulcrum]

Maybe

[gaunt vector]

Sanguinius = noble plus grumpy

Lion = pride, resolve

Dorn = wall

Fulgrim = his frat years

[gusty fulcrum]

Petarabo was his logic, resolve, brilliance and some might say spite

maybe will?

[gaunt vector]

Magnus = neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerd

[gusty fulcrum]

instead of resolve?

[gaunt vector]

true

[gusty fulcrum]

Basicly the embodyment of his willingess to do the horrible shit to get things done

[gaunt vector]

yeah

[gusty fulcrum]

Guilliman an ovelapping sense of Law an order like curze but more in regard to the function of society

Basicly beuracracy

But also his desire for improvment perhaps?

Or he could be an aspect of the emperos sense of stability?

[gaunt vector]

Guilliman is for ensuring stability and prosperity

Curze is for ensuring that those on the edge of damnation can be brought back into line no matter what

[gusty fulcrum]

Man i feel like if curze coulda had a chance to chill with magnus more he mighta been able to help witht the whole crazy thing at least a little

Cuz i get the impression theyve never interacted much

[placid timber]

my feelings towards Curz is the same as a prison wife

i know he did terrible things but I CAN FIX THAT SWEET BOY DAMNIT

[frosty cobalt]

me at angron

and perty

[jaunty bobcat]

i love Lion and the dark angels

[open marsh]

This is an example of a correct opinion

[cloud kindle]

Cuz i get the impression theyve never interacted much
@gusty fulcrum they interacted once and werent a fan of each other

Curze was going to demolish a library and magnus tried to talk him out of it so his sons could study it

[smoky mauve]

Started reading warhammer crime, and man if this isnt a detectives view on Las vs solid shot

[vapid tiger]

It's like the opposite of how Ciaphas Cain prefers the laspistol over the bolt pistol

[smoky mauve]

Yeah, different ideas. Same conversations happened with my old ffg 40k rpg group. Some liked solid projectiles, others enjoyed las

[odd tulip]

typically in ttrpg's my decision to use solid or las is based entirely around whether or not the GM makes us keep track of ammunition

[smoky mauve]

Good choice.

Had a player lugging around a small pouch full of plasma gun reloads. I felt they were tempting fate, but they never died... so didn't need to use those fantastic self immolation tables

Would that last bit, while not heretical, at least get the person thinking it a bit if a talking to?

[odd tulip]

Oh yes. Thats the kind of thing that, if said aloud, would end very badly for you. "Citizen, did you really just say that you think there's something the emperor can't do?"

Best case scenario: some flogging and a few visits to the local cathedral as penance. Worst case, turned into a servitor.

[odd tulip]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Rocks_Are_Not_Free!

[smoky mauve]

An oldie but a goodie

[odd tulip]

This is both good reading and a good thing to link someone if they make the dumb "just use rocks lmao" argument

Remember, sit in the BLUE chair.

[smoky mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/efc-funny-man-chairs-stair-blue-chairs-gif-14799093

When you get their, they're all blue

[odd tulip]

That'd be accurate for an administratum auditorium

[open marsh]

That makes me think he is carrying an M1911. Not saying for sure. But M1911s have 8 round round magazines

[gusty fulcrum]

Well i gues some of that might eb a lack of exposure to the wider galaxy and its ridiculas bs

CLearly has never met an ork

also might not have seen the wierd bs psykers can doo

Cuz ya for as much as the preach about demons and stuff alotta people especially those froma a more modern world still have apretty down to earth view untill theyve seen some shit

Ive seen stories were people dont really belielve psyker powers are really a thing till theyve seen tehm in action

Theres also proabably still plenty of people left who are more less rational but ya like you said would be skiriting a line if they brought it up. They might not also get reprmanded but just have their ear preached off

and they just dont wanna deal with that either

[barren tapir]

This is an amazing description, and it is extremely true, while the killing power of las and solid projectile weapons are similar there are many other factors than could be considered, in this case he point out one thing that it is very important imo, stopping power, las weapons have pretty much none, while solid projectile do

[gusty fulcrum]

Well against a normal human a lasgun actaully is suppose to have stopping power cuz against one not wearing modern flack it can rip apart limbs

pop heads all taht good stuff

But yes there is appeal in sold projectiles such as also having teh option of special ammo

The general stopping power and the flexibility of having special rounds is the big advantage of solid projectile weapons

at least to me

THey just have more modibility

[tawdry wyvern]

Isn't the flak armour pointless against lasweapons too? I mean, it protects against shrapnels, but laser shots probably don't care for it

[cursive hull]

Actually, no.

Flak armor, the standard issue stuff the Guard wear? It can stop las shots, typically.

Maybe not on full power, like something fired out of a Longlas or a lasgun set to max power.

But that's not the standard power output used by the guard or most forces half the time.

I think they use it on the lowest power setting to save battery capacity, maximize number of shots, and all that.

[tawdry wyvern]

Ah well. Something new learnt today ✅

[cursive hull]

But yeah, Guard standard issue flak armor will also stop bullets.

Its why Flak armor is actually not bad. Sure, it ain't space marine power armor, but it doesn't have to be.

The armor itself isn't bad, its just the Guard get thrown against stuff they aren't able to beat in a one to one comparison.

Anyway, key word is can

not will

Not all flak armor is made to the same standards, not all situations are the same. I think it is still generally true that flak armor will absorb a las gun blast, but its not always going to, hence why Guard try not to get shot.

[tawdry wyvern]

We could test the effects of lasguns on flak armour in darktide, if it were out

[gusty fulcrum]

Its implied to stop coventional bullistics fire

So anything from our time period is basicly pretty weak against it

Armor piercing rounds will still work faily well though

Ya gotta rememeber its not that gaurdsmen gear is actaully weak its jsut everything were fighting is very damn strong by comaprison

It says more about the ridiculously tough enemies normal humans face

Bolters are generally thought of as having been made originolly to fight things like orks

And people have calculated a lasgun at full power can be conparable to early world war antitank weaponry

its just that laser weapons dont really penetrate the way solid projectiles do the vaporize wahtever material tehy hit on contact

so its alotta explosive/plsmic surface damge

So lascannon Burns through a target while an autocannon penetrates

Orkz can tank lasgun due to teh sheer muscle mass tehy have and physcal toughness where they can survive having literal chunks blown outta them

[barren tapir]

Orks also survive bolts so saying that orks can survive las weapons is kinda normal

[gusty fulcrum]

Ya but bolters are infenently more effective

THe bit about bolters being made to fight orks is in actaul lore too

Its more an in unerverse theory then known for fact

[barren tapir]

Oh, interesting, got any source?

[gusty fulcrum]

SOme of its from teh various tabletop rpgs

[barren tapir]

Ah, so it isn't lore, or canon, it is a theory

[gusty fulcrum]

In uneverse theory

As in its canon and heavily implied

but because 40k being 40k nobody has exact historical documents

So its more stuff that techpreists have made guesses at

let me see if i can find any of the actaul quates

[barren tapir]

First time i read about this theory, which is weird since i have the ttrpgs books, if you manage to find precise source could you please share them here?

[barren tapir]

This would be amazing

[gusty fulcrum]

and some of its from description of bolter like weapons that they think are predessacor models to the modern boltor

but thats once again more from ttrpg lore

so i guess it depends on if you consider the lore from fatasy flight books canon

or at least cononicalish

[barren tapir]

I take FFG manuals canon, but if a more recent novel say something different the novel got an higher rank for me

Like, FFG manuals can say that bolters were made for fighting orks, or that there are prototype of them from the Age of Tech, but if a novel say that they were invented by the emperor, well, then they were invented by him, and any "prototype" from the Age of Tech isn't really a bolter anymore

[gusty fulcrum]

Well some of its also just like reasoning

Cuz orks were some of the first xenos humans fought

bolters are overkill against most things EXCEPT orkz

cuz this is like dark age of technology period bolers and the like

Fuck i might actaully have to dig through my book n shit google just fails me latley

some of it used to be little fun facts in ork lore

Well i found video on like teh actaull conecpion of the boltor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glu0GmyTJyo

[frigid mesa]

good video mate

[coarse mirage]

It popped up in my recommendations yesterday

[vapid tiger]

Hot take: Boltguns are overrated by those who only play the video games and read wikis

They're only str 4 🤣

[storm jungle]

bastard

[smoky mauve]

Warhammer crime has thus been a treasure trove in terms of lore, the common persons perspective, and now colorful invectives

[coarse mirage]

Nuts to that

[cerulean wagon]

amazing

[odd sparrow]

sangys balls u say

sadly fulgrim isn't included there so it's incomplete

[keen nova]

Ya know, I love the fact that commissars can claim guardsmen. Like, "Ah yes, this is my personal aid now-fuck what they want" and then take them wherever lol.

[keen nova]

I've heard that a guardsman is practically a space marine to your average rebel. I'm guessing that's way off.

[keen nova]

I've heard that and/or 50 cal

[atomic pelican]

I wouldnt say a space marine

They can still get beaned by autoguns

[keen nova]

That creates a bit of a problem if you ask me. Why do regular humans use bolt guns when they can just get an auto gun with explosive ammo?

[keen nova]

Because autoguns are aren't just modern-day firearms yeah? They're like super modern-day firearms? And stubbers are modern-day firearms?

Apologies for odd wording

[atomic pelican]

Something like that yeah

[vapid tiger]

Autoguns are basically just space ak-47s usually

[atomic pelican]

Its also because flak is bullet resistant, not proof

[vapid tiger]

^

[atomic pelican]

Like any other bodyarmor

[vapid tiger]

A guardsman isn't going to be tanking bullets like a space marine

There's really heavy duty autoguns like the armageddon pattern but that has like

A 15 round mag and we can deduce that firing it in full auto all the time is a bad idea

[keen nova]

See but that's the inconsistency I've been coming across. I've been told guards stomps rebels. That their (let's say Cadian here to make things simple) armor (not the green bits) can stop bullets.

And other times I'm told they're wearing t-shirts (essentially)

[atomic pelican]

If you want stories of rebels stomping guard, look at GSC where the majority of them are basically human

Neophytes and atalans

Since most are 4th gens

[keen nova]

I can't think of a time guard isn't getting stomped lol

[vapid tiger]

Usually the reason the guard will stomp common pdf rebellions is because they'll outgun them and outsmart/overwhelm them

Using armored assets and artillery combined with their troops being of higher quality

usually moreso when it comes to training than equipment, even though they do have better equipment unless it's a rebellion from a very wealthy world

[keen nova]

I remember a Tau player saying that the discrepancy between firewarrior and guardsmen is all right because "guardsmen are always winning against rebels, which is what they're mostly fighting. That's what makes them cocky. Tau deserves the W"

[atomic pelican]

Thats not too inaccurate

[vapid tiger]

but their armor isn't straight up bulletproof

[keen nova]

You're clearing up alot, thank you

[vapid tiger]

It's just enough to where a shot that might kill a PDF member wearing sub-flak armor might only wound a guardsman

[keen nova]

How about this one though?

[gusty fulcrum]

Cuz its not the same bolt rounds have different properties and larger paykoad

[cursive hull]

It is. In general the guard have better discipline and training, but they're not doing anything anyone else couldn't do with the same.

[gusty fulcrum]

they also lack teh armor penetration of bolt round or even standard armor peicring bullet

[cursive hull]

Answer is yes and no. Depends on the gun. Generally speaking yes, many Autoguns are of the 21st century.

(Or older. The Heavy Stubber is typically the very famous M2 Browning HMG)

(Or the MG3, for that matter.)

[gusty fulcrum]

Theres alotta deabate between what the exact dif between stubbers and auto are but its generall accepted that auto tend to have full auto cpabilities adn otehr little gimmicks while stubbers tend to to not be automatic unless heavy and use bigger round or are more simple and reliable

Like revolver is a stub pistol while like i dont know a glock or somethign would be a form of autopistol

A bolt action rifle would be stubber to i believe

[cursive hull]

Stub Rifle*

[gusty fulcrum]

Whereas something like an ar even civilian model would probabl still fall under autorifle

Something like like an M20 would probabaly fall intoa grey area

or not m20

or maybe it was shit i cant think of the gun

basicly looks like a big garand

but auto and has liek 20 rounds

Ah it was th M19 im pretty sure im thinking of

aka the browning

[gusty fulcrum]

I wouldnt go quite as far as a space marine but yes they can be pretty damn tough to eople of a lower tech

[gusty fulcrum]

The actual vests can stop bullets ya but those dont even cover as much of your torso as even a modern bullet proof vest does

keyword CAN

[keen nova]

I really like the guard 😄

[gusty fulcrum]

techincally what guardsmen wears is mix of flack cloth adn flk vest

Flack cloth is proably comparable to modern ballistic resistent materail

While the actual flack armour is comparable to a future version of proabably our best Heavy vests or slightly better like the ones they make outta liek solid plates of metal or whatever or a bombsquads suit

since it has some energy dispertion properties

Carapace is on anotehr level

Since its made outta ceramite or equally tough material which is what they use for teh outer lyer on space marine armor

So ya a rebel trooper fighting a Stormtrooper or kyrsakin or tempestus is proabbaly like fighting a space marine light

So basicly a less tough scout

cuz scouts and Stortooper/tempestus use alotta teh same basic gear jut instead of bolters the lean towards hellguns

well old scouts cant say the same for primaris scouts dont know enough bout them

and being spacemarines even if junior ones they still have aspace marines toughness

but take away the toughness bonus and theyre not to different

[final spruce]

Well there is the strength, toughness and surhuman reflexes

[coarse mirage]

I'm getting the feeling that Guilliman was the wrong primarch to bring back, he's simply incapable to grasp faith.

[gaunt vector]

He grasped the Imperium's logistics and beaurocracy

thats 2/3

Sanguinius could probably understand the faith part of the modern imperium

he wouldn't like it

[open marsh]

Out of all of them. He is the only one who'd even tolerate it.

[gaunt vector]

but he has experienced it before

[gaunt vector]

true

[storm jungle]

oh god Dorn would be like "I dont want this church here."

"Father please no we can explain!"

[open marsh]

Imagine bringing the Lion or Russ back. They'd have already purged the churches. Damage be damned

[gaunt vector]

The Lion or Russ returning would have been a disaster

[storm jungle]

except Morkai, Morkai is cool

[coarse mirage]

Listenign to Guilliman rage at his Militant Apostolic is fun though

[storm jungle]

god that part was great

[open marsh]

High Lords: We disagree with-

Lion: immediately decapitates him "Any other questions?"

[storm jungle]

Russ would just lock the door and release thunderwolves in there

which ill admit would be really medieval and metal

[open marsh]

Hell yeah

[gaunt vector]

his what?

[storm jungle]

no wait i just realised the political crisis that would cause dont do it!

[coarse mirage]

pet priest

[open marsh]

Yeah. Atleast Guilliman managed to hold it in until that point. None of the other loyalist Primarchs would have tolerated the church even that long.

[gaunt vector]

What book did that happen in? I'm not up to date with what Guilliman has been doing I only started reading BL books recently

[coarse mirage]

Plague Wars

listening to it right in this moment

[storm jungle]

Yeah hes mostly in the book and arguing faith can bring lots of good things while Robot-G is critizing the shit extreme religion can do to people

The guy even tries to cut into his rant and guilliman is like

SHUT UP BEFORE I KILL YOU, IM TALKING HERE

[open marsh]

imagine trying to back talk a pissed off Primarch

[storm jungle]

Anyone else would have slapped his body to a wall

[open marsh]

Yup

[frosty cobalt]

Tfw u think ur space magic book belief is important enough to interrupt the son of your god

[gaunt vector]

ah yes: interrupt a Primarch.
That is something that should be at the top of everyone's good idea list

[coarse mirage]

Would be kinda fun to have another of hte primarchs not be nice about it too

like Russ

[open marsh]

The Lion is next in the cut to return

So

[coarse mirage]

Oh boy

[storm jungle]

God i hope that happens in a year or two

[coarse mirage]

That's gonna be a circus

[gaunt vector]

Well the last time that Guilliman and the Lion tried to run anything together they lost Konrad and had to have Sanguinius keep them from sh*tmixing each other

[storm jungle]

Guilliman reined his anger in, his voice fell to a harsh whisper. ‘You cannot be trusted.’ He swallowed and continued in more measured tones. ‘The man that created me did His job well. The battle would have been won without any intervention from the powers of the warp. That girl was a psyker of rare ability, nothing more, whose presence on the field could have done a great deal of harm. By ordering Iolanth–’

‘But, my lord, I ordered nothing!’

‘Do not interrupt me!’ Guilliman said. He held up his hands as if he were going to grab Mathieu by his homespun robes and haul him up into the air and crush his skull, but his fingers stopped short of the priest, where they trembled with rage. ‘By ordering Iolanth,’ Guilliman repeated, ‘to bring her to the battle, you risked the annihilation of all our forces. If she had not mastered her ability, if she had become a conduit into the warp…’ Guilliman bared his teeth.

Mathieu had never suspected the primarch might harbour such depths of rage. Guilliman had always been described as such a bland fellow, a competent genius untroubled by the miseries of unbounded humours.

[open marsh]

The Lion is also the only surviving loyalist Primarch who Guilliman respected enough to see as a big brother. So could boss him around to a degree

[coarse mirage]

The priests reactions is kidna disgusting too

[frosty cobalt]

Theoretically, the lions sword is practically itching for necks

[storm jungle]

Yeah it basically shows hes just brainwashed

[coarse mirage]

He's about to coom over hte idea of being smashed by Guilliman

[open marsh]

The priest was a creeper

Had the BDSM hots for his teacher in the schola

[coarse mirage]

"Chaos has tried to decieve me three times. ME! Do you think you are below such attentions?!"

[open marsh]

And when she was killed in an attack, he turned her skull into his servo-skull

[coarse mirage]

So this begs the question, are the SoB just gonna get erased with enough primarchs around?

[gaunt vector]

oh it was that guy

[coarse mirage]

He an absolute creep

[gaunt vector]

I did not realise that they were the same person

[odd sparrow]

tbh guilliman is v chill, if any other primarch comes back he's totally just gonna seem like a dick compared to gboy

[gaunt vector]

yup

[odd sparrow]

,, which to be fair most of them are

[open marsh]

Spoilers for God Blight:
||Big E used Matheau as a conduit to manifest and smash Nurgle's cauldron. Then kept Matheau alive and told him his plans to pass on to Guilliman||

[storm jungle]

I'd say mostly likely until they have outlived their usefulness, alternative is being brought to heel to accept a new imperial regime

[coarse mirage]

Gonna get God Blight next

[odd sparrow]

wow just straight up vandalising godly apparatus

dick move

i cant hurt u BUT I CAN DESTROY UR COOKWARE

[coarse mirage]

It makes me wonder what is actually going on with that faith stuff.

[storm jungle]

Yeah its really stupid imo

[open marsh]

Oh. He hurts Nurgle too

[storm jungle]

its just dumb deus ex machina shit

that literally ALWAYS happens randomly

[odd sparrow]

Man was very attached to his wonderful enamelled cast iron cauldron

[gaunt vector]

||Big E: "well if I'm going to accidentally burn out anyone's soul today it might as well be this guy"||

[open marsh]

Big E gave the Plague God a nice, big, permanent scar as a warning.

[odd sparrow]

passed down through generations

[coarse mirage]

To make it doubtful, uncertain

"It is your fathers plan for me!" Oh boy, just kill him.

You can tell why the Tau think the Imperium is fucking insane.

[open marsh]

Matheau was truthful this time. Telling Guilliman stuff that only Big E would have known

[open marsh]

As if they have room to talk.

[storm jungle]

They do

They got metal gears

Your point is invalid

[gaunt vector]

they don't

I refuse to elaborate

[storm jungle]

bastard

[coarse mirage]

But then, it doesnt seem beyond the EMperor to have lied about that too

[storm jungle]

the Emperor was Revolver Ocelot the whole time?

[gaunt vector]

at least I'm not a Tau bastard

[atomic pelican]

you like space marines

that's even worse.

[gaunt vector]

to you

[atomic pelican]

to.. a few of us, at least

[coarse mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/qi-fight-fight-me-encourage-encouragement-gif-14621691

[gaunt vector]

but not me

and there is nothing wrong with that

there is also nothing wrong with u liking tau

[atomic pelican]

I think there is

[gaunt vector]

I disagree

[storm jungle]

I got his left leg Proud

[atomic pelican]

rip him apart

[storm jungle]

you swing the sledgehammer

🔨

[gaunt vector]

I'm wearing power armour

and I have plot armour

[storm jungle]

fuck

[gaunt vector]

ur also using melee as Tau

[atomic pelican]

who said we were tau

[storm jungle]

[atomic pelican]

we just want space marines ripped apart

[odd sparrow]

bug time

🪳

[atomic pelican]

[storm jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/735951004989784104/849245735370096640/aaaaaaa.mp4

get em boys

[gaunt vector]

already tried that

Baal remains

[storm jungle]

"AA-"*

[atomic pelican]

Didnt baal lose like 90% of its planets

[odd sparrow]

yeah sadly we can't quite break through marine casharmour

[atomic pelican]

and get saved by essentially plot armor

[odd sparrow]

but we did well

xenos gang

[gaunt vector]

the red scar. Baal is just one system

[atomic pelican]

Yee sorry that's what I mean

[gaunt vector]

no it got saved by BA being BA. by the time Guilliman turned up the BA had already won but had also taken almost total causalties

[odd sparrow]

BA are space marines and space marines win when they reasonably shouldn't

[atomic pelican]

Seems to be the case of most large nid/space marine wars

Get saved by plot armor in the end, after having lost almost the entire chapter

ex: Tyrannic wars and such

[odd sparrow]

which is like, fine, it's plot armour and that's sorta essential for these types of books to really read well and not just be Congratulations! Your faction is gonna get curbstomped

[atomic pelican]

Yeah I actually don't mind plot armor against tyranids in most cases tbh

Since they kinda uh

destined to win in full eventually

[odd sparrow]

yeah nids are SLIGHTLY overpowered

[atomic pelican]

Losing a hivefleet means nothing

[gaunt vector]

It could be a lot more plot armoury than it was

[odd sparrow]

just a bit

u know endless extragalactic threat of potentially effectively infinite size

[atomic pelican]

Yeee DSFHN

Jokes aside I generally like the way nids are portrayed in most cases

They seem to be one of the xenos the plot takes seriously

[gusty fulcrum]

Dad mood

[odd sparrow]

i still maintain the tau should rapidly expand soon using the startide nexus tech to establish exclaves throughout the galaxy. so like

u can actually include them in plots

[cursive hull]

The fact that everyone drops what they are doing to deal with the Nids before anything else (Or just fuck off as quickly as possible.) It does somewhat sustain the feeling of the Nids being a massive threat.

[atomic pelican]

They should but this relies on phil kelly

[odd sparrow]

,, fair point

[gaunt vector]

Have the nids properly gone for the Tau yet?

[atomic pelican]

I also like that nids can pretty much, at any point, be a threat anywhere

And yes

[odd sparrow]

they have and the tau predictably shat themselves for a while before eventually figuring out how to deal with it

[cursive hull]

Also, honestly? That does sound pretty T'au.

Spreading and seeding enclaves and settlements everywhere just to see what sticks.

[odd sparrow]

which is like

how 90% of their conflicts go

[atomic pelican]

lmao new hivefleet showing up out of nowhere

Tyranids are also the only faction who learned the galaxy is 3D and you can go under/above it to travel

[storm jungle]

The worst part about the nids is realistically they'd have destroyed half the galaxy by now by adapting and evolving newer bioforms to fight every combat unit avaliable from their foes, but they cant do jackshit because countless planets would be nommed

[odd sparrow]

yeah! Like, i get it's not a huge deal strictly speaking but i've never like how tau are basically a tiny dot that can only ever be involved in plots in the immediate vicinity of that dot

[storm jungle]

including Big E

[gaunt vector]

any conflict with the nids is going to be something that takes multiple systems and a large force to beat, which assures a good read for fans of both sides imo

[atomic pelican]

Consoom

Yeee

[odd sparrow]

tau dont come to plots plots are just

built

in that tiny dot where the tau are

[atomic pelican]

Yeah either they need enclaves or to like

actually manage to expand further into imperial space

[storm jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/516724764904259585/861998275725099028/unknown.png

do you see the tau territory

[cursive hull]

Which, lore wise, I thought the T'au were actively doing.

[atomic pelican]

Supposedly

There's the atoll

[cursive hull]

Like, it was a slow expanse.

[gaunt vector]

If the Tau expand then they wil draw enough of the Imperium's attention to threaten their existance

[cursive hull]

But it was happening.

[odd sparrow]

They established some wormhole tech that allows them to establish lightspeed travel to a given spot

[gaunt vector]

that or Chaos will decide to try to corrupt them

[cursive hull]

Chaos is already breaking down their door

[odd sparrow]

which is like,, idk if GW is gonna build that up further or if it's just gonna vibe

[gaunt vector]

as in frontal assault or corrupting tau COs and starting some civil wars to bring them down as a society like what it did to the Imperium?

[odd sparrow]

it would establish the tau as a legitimate threat cus like, they can show up basically anywhere and start slowly assimilating planets without even having any territory on that side of the galaxy

like

what the fuck how are there pulse rifles here

[atomic pelican]

I wonder what the next big hivefleet incursion will be

[cursive hull]

Kinda both, actually.

I seem to remember an Ethereal being possessed somewhat recently.

And the Death Guard have been actively attempting to breach T'au Space.

[odd sparrow]

WE'RE LIKE 2 MILES FROM TERRA

[gaunt vector]

I would like to see the Tau try to deal with chaos corruption within their ranks

[cursive hull]

It won't go well

[atomic pelican]

I believe that's already happened

[odd sparrow]

hide and seek, find the water caste diplomats before they start disseminating railguns to anti imperial militants

[gaunt vector]

nah

[atomic pelican]

Ethereals have a ability to help deal with it

[coarse mirage]

there's more Nid stuff coming?

[atomic pelican]

Oh no, not confirmed

[odd sparrow]

they do?

[atomic pelican]

I was just wondering

Someone posted a excerpt here awhile back about some tau fighting khorne forces

[gaunt vector]

so they get a thing to fix it right away? thats bs

[atomic pelican]

and a ethereal calms the khornerage

[odd sparrow]

! i actually like that

[gaunt vector]

how

[atomic pelican]

Yess It's good

[gaunt vector]

thats b

s

[odd sparrow]

Ethereals should be mysterious and confusing

[cursive hull]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/a/aa/TauBattle8th.jpg Also yes.

[odd sparrow]

not queen ants like other fluff says lol

[atomic pelican]

Ethereals have always had some sort of.. weird abilities

[odd sparrow]

fucking p h e r e m o n e s

[odd sparrow]

pulse blasters my beloved

[atomic pelican]

It also makes sense

Since they're spiritual leaders

That they'd be able to harden the minds of other tau

[cursive hull]

I will admit.

The T'au Aesthetic is definitely on point.

[odd sparrow]

Yeah. Like, i love the idea of ethereals being this mystical mysterious force that nobody really fully gets

it adds a lot of depth

[gaunt vector]

but to the extent that they closed off Khorne's acces to the field?

[atomic pelican]

Closed off access?

I meant they just stopped some tau from going bloodrage

[odd sparrow]

i love the recentish art of them

[cursive hull]

Like, sure, their pulse weapons are literally just rectangles with triggers, but I like blocky guns.

[gaunt vector]

I have to be honest I still don't see how they could have done that

[atomic pelican]

Like, It's pretty much they just bolstered their will

[gaunt vector]

dug the rage back out of the other tau

[odd sparrow]

The art for tau have been p hit and miss but i think they've finally gotten the proportions down

[atomic pelican]

god the one screaming

[cursive hull]

I still love the on in the center

[odd sparrow]

like, they used to have the olde times space marines issue of the artists like, sorta using the tabletop proportions? and it looked bad

[gaunt vector]

like an imperial political officer would have in the face of the HH

but that didnt work

[cursive hull]

https://gyazo.com/ef1923c15ba852d37e81f9d73a966d53

[gaunt vector]

so why did this?

[odd sparrow]

giant ass guns, unwieldy looking pauldrons etc

[atomic pelican]

SoB literally have faith based magic

[cursive hull]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-15058124

[odd sparrow]

im in danger

[atomic pelican]

it's not that big of a stretch to say that ethereals could do something similar

[odd sparrow]

on the upside pulse blasters are totally capable of 1shotting marines

[atomic pelican]

yess

[gaunt vector]

the Tau are much less psychic than humans right?

[odd sparrow]

u just have to be like

[atomic pelican]

But not entirely not

[odd sparrow]

5 inches from them to get the proper damage profile

[atomic pelican]

If they can be possessed, they can also develop ways to resist possession

Like

Every other faction

lol

[gaunt vector]

so how do etherials generate that level of aura?

[odd sparrow]

ye i originally got the vibe they were meant to be the anti psychic race but more recent fluff indicates they can get up into warpfuckery

[atomic pelican]

It's not really explained

[cursive hull]

So far as I'm aware, yeah, its a recent development.

[atomic pelican]

And yeah

Tau are def warp connected to some degree now

[odd sparrow]

they honestly seem just as vulnerable to warp stuff as humans, they just can't use it in the same way

[cursive hull]

The T'au are becoming more aware of the dangers of the Warp.

[gaunt vector]

I assume that they gave that to the necrons because the necrons are already a lot scarier

[odd sparrow]

there was a discussion here about whether the necrons have souls now too

they originally didn't, now ✨ who knows ✨

[tiny nova]

Probably cause no one's taught them about it and they were living in a vaccum

[gaunt vector]

???

I didn't know that

[cursive hull]

Well, in fairness.

The T'au are surrounded by the Imperium. The Imperium cannot stop talking about the danger of the warp.

Sooooo

[odd sparrow]

i think the general vibe GW takes for it is like, the older a race gets the more warp attuned they become

hence why humans only got their powers some thousands of years AD

[atomic pelican]

The true explanation is that "It's Space Magic" and ethereals are like monks

[gaunt vector]

but the tau are speedrunners so will get their sooner

[odd sparrow]

and why eldar and the WHFB Carryover Toads™️ are ridiculous

[atomic pelican]

Le Froge

[odd sparrow]

tau fast

live fast, technologically advance fast, die fast, speedy blueberry™️

[coarse mirage]

that Divine guy talked about having felt like he had one when he went super sayian

[atomic pelican]

I love the lore bits about piranhas divebombing ork vehicles

[gaunt vector]

that also means that they will age of strife themselves a lot sooner as well

[odd sparrow]

sduigfad

not so subtle banzai

[atomic pelican]

Subtle GW

Also did you see that interview with The Phil, ratty?

Confirmed alot of stuff about farsight and such

like him being a chaos god puppet

[cursive hull]

...I wonder if the dive bombers of 40k have dive sirens...

[atomic pelican]

or a attempt

[odd sparrow]

!! i didn't actually

Link?

[gaunt vector]

good

kill

[atomic pelican]

Not like

a possessed puppet

but a attempt to weaken the empire

[gaunt vector]

damn

[atomic pelican]

I gotta find it

[odd sparrow]

i like the idea that farsight is an attempt at corrupting tau

[gaunt vector]

I wanted to see Tau Horus

[atomic pelican]

I only saw the summary of it

[odd sparrow]

like, not fully chaos'd, but the influence is there™️

thank

[coarse mirage]

Well that just makes Farsight seem kinda shit

[atomic pelican]

No no It's not that bad

So like

[coarse mirage]

I've always thought of him as a good guy rebel

[atomic pelican]

They WANTED that to happen

But he put himself into exile

Instead of starting a rebellion

[coarse mirage]

Ah

[atomic pelican]

So he spurned them

[odd sparrow]

!!

I love that

[tiny nova]

Only reason they were fast was they got an stc right?

[coarse mirage]

So Tau nature won over the attempted manipulation

[odd sparrow]

Just Say No™️

[gaunt vector]

sonofa

so close

[odd sparrow]

No sir i will not serve extradimensional madness gods ima just fuck off and become farmer thanos

also occasionally murk some orks

[atomic pelican]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShaskaisWarhamBits/comments/ile274/interesting_bits_from_warhammer_community_podcast/

Found the summary

[coarse mirage]

Farsight is like, Lu Bu

[atomic pelican]

It also links the actual podcast

if you wanna watch it urself

One of the examples of this is the Damocles Crusade. The early Imperial victories in the Damocles Crusade were swift and easy but this was by the design of the Ethereals. They allowed the Imperial crusade to overwhelm their far flung colonies so that the Imperials would become overconfident and overextend themselves. This indeed happened when the Damocles Crusade attacked the capital worlds of the T'au Empire. They expected more swift victories only to find that their momentum was stalled ultimately leading to their withdrawal. This gave the T'au a moral victory that they needed to keep believing in their manifest destiny. Through the sacrifice of the colonies, the Ethereals saved the T'au Empire. Farsight is just now discovering this fact

Lmao

-Phil says that he doesn't think there will be Chaos T'au in the T'au books he is writing because they don't work that way. However, they will feature them hearing Chaos whispers.

[gaunt vector]

Also the nids arrived

[odd sparrow]

-The Ethereals are akin to the Emperor. They withhold information and refuse to explain their actions and decisions but they are doing them for the right reasons. Farsight is beginning to see that.
so basically farsight is the tau guilliman

yo this shit is fucked but also i can sorta get it

[atomic pelican]

Yepp

[odd sparrow]

also that conflicts with the disney villain ethereal depictions

so i approve

[atomic pelican]

Yeah It's actually not tooo bad

This interview redeemed phil a little bit for me

BUT HE'S ON THIN ICE.

[odd sparrow]

-Farsight unwittingly wins a victory against the Chaos Gods and frustrates them when he decides to go into exile thus removing himself as pawn for them. According to Phil Kelly, Farsight by doing this has stepped aside from the Path to Glory. This is huge in the setting. We haven't seen anyone step aside from the Path to glory before. Farsight with his zen T'au philosophy and mentality beat the lure of Chaos. Indeed, Farsight won a great victory against the Ruinous Powers though he does not realise it.
i love this too

[atomic pelican]

OH MY GOD

-Phil Kelly hopes to write the apocalyptic finale books of 40K one day. He hopes by that time the Farsight Eight characters would be fully fleshed out.

PHIL WANTS TO WRITE THE 40K END TIMES

[odd sparrow]

like, how it isn't framing the tau philosophy is irrelevant or putting their fingers in their ears like imperium stans frame it. is nice

[odd sparrow]

OH DEAR

will he live that long

[atomic pelican]

Also it explains that the tau philosophy can help to defeat chaos' corruption

Which is rlly Neat

It shows that chaos can be defeated by soundness of mind

[odd sparrow]

ye! it gives the tau smthn unique and like, groundbreaking in the setting

So they're not just Human Empire 2.0, they're unique

[atomic pelican]

Yesss

-If there is anyone capable of fixing the problems of the 40K universe it's arguably the T'au. The Aeldari look at the T'au and think that their approach might work. However, it's too late. If the T'au had risen a few millennia ago, then they might have ascended into being a galactic empire that would acted as a bulwark against Chaos and maybe the Tyranids as well. Though, the T'au now are doomed as the rest of the galaxy, you still want to root for them.

DOUBLE LMAO

[odd sparrow]

tau be late

[atomic pelican]

Phil Kelly, the unlikely shield of tau stans

SDFUHNDS

[odd sparrow]

IKR

headass just saying ye if the tau were around in 30k and not the imperium everything would be fine

virgin emperor vs chad ethereal caste

[atomic pelican]

The Emperor would get beaten up by a unusually ripped ethereal guard

[odd sparrow]

they're just aun'vas stand

[atomic pelican]

BASICALLY YEAH

[tiny nova]

The Tau cannot be corrupted however, then can be smashed into dust, I'm sure the emperor killed a bunch of different xenos races that would help against chaos

[atomic pelican]

Yeah but he's talking about if they ascended awhile back

They would've turbo accelerated past humanity

[tiny nova]

Isn't one of the theories that they found an stc?

[odd sparrow]

it's basically like

[atomic pelican]

A theory that has no real confirmation

[gaunt vector]

this is all assuming that they don't have a flaw that brings them down from within

which is something that everyone in 40k has

[odd sparrow]

Big E gets crippled, Tau not able to pick up the pieces for the next few thousands of years
Timeline:

[tiny nova]

Which humans made, if it's true then showing up prior doesn't really matter. But that's an if

[odd sparrow]

-The T'au tend to reproduce artificially rather than naturally since it's faster, predictable, and you can optimise the results. the tau have powergamed meiosis

[atomic pelican]

fucking minmaxers

[tiny nova]

If they're power gamers they have no place at my table

[gaunt vector]

they have no place at mine either

[tiny nova]

I like to call minmaxing mingemaxing

[atomic pelican]

The drukhari do something similar which is kinda funny

Well, in a more fucked up way of course but you know the drill

Most drukhari are artifically born

[gaunt vector]

the Drukhari have no place at my table either

[odd sparrow]

the drukhari have no place at anyone's table

[atomic pelican]

Drukhari show up anyway

[odd sparrow]

proceed to turn u into blanche art

this is why we need exodites as a counterbalance