40k-lore-chat

[gusty fulcrum]

but that might not be his fault entirely eitehr might jsut be the result of being a godlike being of infinninte power compared to teh rest of your species

The corrution and flaws of the primarchs in genreal?

[open marsh]

Its something touched on in the Valdor book. Big E struggled with that. He would do certain things specifically to help anchor him and not allow him to seperate himself from humanity

Didnt always work but he tried

[gusty fulcrum]

The even allude to it in teh last church short where the preist comes to the idea that the emperer simply cant relate to normal humans adn their need for beileif and otehr basic human needs

[open marsh]

No. Just the Lion. Everything about him worked as designed by Big E. Chaos wasnt able to alter him. So anything he can be blamed for have their roots solely in Big E's designs. Nooone elses

[gusty fulcrum]

Well youve read how tehy are made with teh power stolen from chaos right? its implied tehy mighta slipped shit in with that power

[open marsh]

Well...it wasnt for Chaos. I point to what has become of Corax as an example

He disproved that

[gusty fulcrum]

but yes its mostly implied to be what results in the ones that turn traitor

[open marsh]

No. Its just what Lorgar believes. He doesnt understand that Chaos =/= the whole of the warp

[gusty fulcrum]

No thats cuz he came to teh relization tehyre are bascily Imperial princes

Aka deamon prince of order

[open marsh]

Thats how he disproved that it was the powers of chaos that is within them

[gusty fulcrum]

No that proves they are made of teh warp

Not chaos WARP

[open marsh]

Im not arguing against that

[gusty fulcrum]

Ya but its still implied to be part of their flaws

if youve read various lore

Theyre not saying that all tehir faults are the result of chaos influence

As its implied the ones that were truly affected were thones that turned traitor

[open marsh]

I was just disagreeing that they were inherently made of chaos energies.

And yes, yes i have. And some were more....chaos touched than others. Like Perturabo's strange connection to the Eye of Terror and how he felt the gods watching / judging him

[gusty fulcrum]

but its also suppose to be hinted thats why Sanguinus has angel wings its CHaos taint

[open marsh]

Not to sure about that one. Remember "The Angel"? the original one. Not Sanguinius

[gusty fulcrum]

Was actaulyl gonna touch on that

cuz some say its nod to teh angel he made

[open marsh]

I do think Sanguinius was intended to be The Angel 2.0

[gusty fulcrum]

I wouldnt be surprised

kinda funny how all teh new ones are kinda downgrades fromt eh originol models

[open marsh]

Well....The Angel had....flaws.....big ones

[gusty fulcrum]

SM watered down custodes/thunder worriors

Oh ya

thats why the end up getting watered down pretty much

its either due to flaws or instability

[open marsh]

brb phone call

back

On the thunder warriors. cool thing. There were a few Thunder Warriors who became space marines. keeping the best of both worlds (physically)

They were stabilized with Astartes geneseed implants

But for one reason or another, this was only done to a small minority of them. Personally, i think it was only allowed for those both mentally stable enough and had unwavering loyalty to Big E

[slow prawn]

Can you name some of these TWs?

[open marsh]

Endryd Haar & Autek Mor.

Autek Mor isnt covered much, but even in universe, its noted that he was different enough from the others that his creation was questioned. And his mannerisms match those of the Thunder Warriors

Endryd Haar is confirmed to have been one. Besides his strength/speed being greater than the other Astartes, him having a barely contained berzerk rage (despite not having the Butcher's Nails), he has scarring consistent with getting the black caparace after having already become an adult, and tattoos consistent with the Thunder Warriors.

And then there is this line, when confronting an agent of Malcador. The agent mentions that he knows quite alot about Haar. Haar asks him what he knows, and among other things, he reponds with this:
"I know that there are no nails in your skull. I know that your savagry comes from a deeper well. Tell me, Hound. Do you dream of thunder?"

[slow prawn]

There are also some possibilities that he couldn’t be one:
Several other Astartes are mentioned as being above average strong and swift, mainly Abaddon and Pollux. The rage could also be a genetic trait as it’s noted that War Hounds were already incredibly savage and violent. The black carapace could be from just getting it planted late as an early Astartes, before the process is perfected. And the thunder thing may be from the fact that there was a revolt on the planet of Cerberus started by Thunder Warriors that The Hounds quelled

[dreamy crest]

All we know about Haar is he’s a big old Astartes. The rest are personal inferences you’ve made. Can’t speak on the other fellow. Another question about Haar being a TW how has he survived A so long and B most importantly how has he stayed mentally stable.

[slow prawn]

Plus, why would the Emperor bring back a Thunder Warriors at all? As far as he’s concerned they’re a done project that he wiped his hands with

[open marsh]

Its wasteful to discard a tool that still has its uses. As Malcador once mentioned to Endryd Haar

[errant mauve]

Autek Mor definitely isn't a Thunder Warrior. His creation wasn't questioned, it was the origins of his geneseed.

[open marsh]

Yeah, but all that combined, as you have just stated. It a yoga-class stretch. Since noone else at the cerberus insurection got those tattoos

[errant mauve]

That and alongside the fact that DuCaine definitely isn't a Thunder Warrior.

[open marsh]

Never said DuCaine was one

[slow prawn]

We don’t know that for certain. They may have been common tattoos of the time that everyone got

[open marsh]

Evidence of anyone else in the War Hounds having those tattoos?

[slow prawn]

No, but there’s also no evidence of them not having those tattoos either

[open marsh]

Ah yes, "The Absence of Evidence". Edit: better comparison. "Russel's Teapot"

[errant mauve]

I'm adding this on because DuCaine was also part of the first wave of Iron hands, also being Terran by birth, aggressive, and of questioned origins.

[open marsh]

Where was his origins questioned

Also @slow prawn Endryd Haar had his rage that was far worse than the other War Hounds. Again, its more comparible to the War Hounds after they had the Butcher's Nail's. They werent like that before. But he had no nails.

The words of that agent of Malcador seals it, tbh.

[slow prawn]

You could very well be right. It just seems kinda weird to go through all the trouble of making a TW an Astartes too

Especially since Haar is now dead

[open marsh]

A useful tool. And yeah, he only died due to Abbadon's plot armour

[errant mauve]

Black Book 2.

Arguably also in the Meduson Short Story but that's reading in between the lines

[open marsh]

Alot of 40k lore requires reading between the lines

[errant mauve]

In that instance I'll put in the Meduson short story too

[open marsh]

Sounds good. Ill give it read

[errant mauve]

Issa good un

[open marsh]

Because he has been on my radar for awhile. Ever since someone mentioned that he wears MkI Thunder Armour

[errant mauve]

Indeed he does

[slow prawn]

Wait he wat?

[errant mauve]

Though the Mark 1 thing was in Ferrus Manus: Gorgon of Medusa

and offhandedly in a single line

"Amadeus DuCaine thumped shoulder-first into the rockcrete wall. He dropped to one knee, turned his back, calmly ejected the spent magazine from his bolter and snapped home another of the specially tagged sickle-mags. As he did so he noticed the las-burn on his vambrace, cursed aloud, and took a moment to buff it out using the wrist of the opposite gauntlet. He’d been taught to go into battle looking as he’d want the Apothecaries to find him. Today was no different.

The thick harness of his Mk I Thunder Armour was so polished a black that it shone under the inconstant light and creeping ice like volcanic glass, covered in company and campaign citations, most of which the Legion no longer officially recognised."

It seems that he has artificier mk 1 that's been void sealed

[open marsh]

Yeah, which made me raise my eye brow

Also because that is a whole mood. I like using older thing that still have use. Even when something new is available. I'd rather just upgrade the old stuff as needed to meet newer requirements. Without outright replacement

[errant mauve]

Makes sense to me that a curmudgeonly old astartes would want to use a curmudgeonly old armour mark like himself

DuCaine is fucking rad

[slow prawn]

The Salamanders 🔥

[open marsh]

Doesnt make sense for an Iron Hand tho. They....they liked their tech

[slow prawn]

That’s exactly what they do

[open marsh]

The Salamanders throw old stuff into a volcano

[errant mauve]

Hence why he upgraded it to be artificer and voidsealed
I think of it like how people refurbish old vehicles

[open marsh]

Oh I know. That gets my motor running like you wouldnt believe

[slow prawn]

In the Black Book it’s expressly stated they prefer to keep older armor and weapons upgraded

[open marsh]

@errant mauveI should show you some of my work sometime. I restore vintage tools back to as close to new condition as I can get them.

[errant mauve]

Shit, that's cool as hell. I mainly do mechantronics stuff so I never really do anything like restorations.

[open marsh]

I disassemble them, clean/derust them, reuse as many of the original parts as are salvageable. Replace parts that aren't, and give them a fresh coat of paint and relabel them

[errant mauve]

Very nice, though we should probably migrate to #735951004989784104 or #40k-minis-and-armies lol

[dreamy crest]

Something else about Haar the Aquila as we know it wasn’t the first symbol of the Imperium. There were lightning bolts and the Aquila crossed with lightning if I remember correctly. Frankly with how old Haar is it’s likely he just has tattoos similar to the thunder warriors since the legions did still fight in the waining days of the unification wars. As well you imagine there was a transitional phase from lightning bolts to Aquila the two in the early imperium being tightly tied to it by way of memory and changing out symbols.

[open marsh]

It ties into lore. Its why the Mechanicus are probably my overall favorite faction

[slow prawn]

Also I just Wanna

Post this here

[errant mauve]

mk II best mk

[slow prawn]

Salamanders do keep their weapons up to date

[open marsh]

MkI updated to MkII Standards tho

[errant mauve]

Mk 2 > Mk 5 > Mk 3 > Mk 6 = Mk 4 = Mk 7 > Mk 8 > Mk 10 for me

I don't really have an opinion on mk 1

its pretty dope

[open marsh]

Without retrofitting, its honestly the worst of them. besides what they symbolized

[errant mauve]

My controversial opinion is that mk 5 looks really cool in any form

[errant mauve]

Oh I was ranking by aesthetics haha

My tastes are probably influenced by the fact that my 30k armies are mainly IW and WS

[open marsh]

IW is the correct choice

Because. If you know their lore. You know you can play them as loyalist or traitor, yet still deploy in legion strength formations

[errant mauve]

We've discussed a lot of it on the IW discord xP

[open marsh]

Aw yiss

And you know I am a huge IW loyalist fan

Best of the Legion. The Iron that did not break

[errant mauve]

I play mine as the Traitor elements of the 114th Grand Battalion but Dreygur and Vhalen do be poggin

Dantioch too

[glad prism]

Iron Reaver bois?

[open marsh]

Dantioch symbolized the absolute best of the IVth legion and he proved that at the Pharos

[errant mauve]

Yessir. My 30k army ties into my 40k one.

[glad prism]

I love them and what little of their lore I know

[dreamy crest]

I do envy chaos players a lot of times

[glad prism]

Most based of the Iron Warriors armies I've seen among friends

[errant mauve]

thats on me for not putting more to paper

[open marsh]

@errant mauveAre you familiar with Warsmith Auric Saxton?

[errant mauve]

Based Emperor's Children slayer

I prefer traitor IW to loyalist but anyone that dabs on an EC lord commander is a king 👑

[open marsh]

Slew either a Chaos Champion, or a Daemon Prince of the EC. depending on your interpretation

I like traitor legion loyalists and loyalist legion traitors. Since they give a "what could have been" look if things had played out differently

[errant mauve]

My favourite "obscure" 30k IW character is Ker Thelon

"Alright lads, we're still traitors but we're gonna bugger off because fuck the Alpha Legion"

👑

[open marsh]

Like my favorite chaos warbands in 40k are ones like the Blood Wolves (Space Wolves) and Adhuron's Reavers (Ultramarines)

Also the Dragon Warriors (Salamanders)

I'd love for GW to do a campaign where a bunch of first founding loyalist legion traitor warbands fight a bunch of "suspected" (for you naysayers) traitor legion successor chapters

Like imagine a battle between the Silver Skulls and Adhuron's Reavers. Loyalist Iron Warriors adopted into the Ultramarines, vs an Ultramarines traitor warband

[glad prism]

Doesn't sound particularly imaginative to me

[vapid tiger]

thank you for alerting me to the existence of the dragon warriors

[errant mauve]

Patiently waiting for Honsou to get another book

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-waiting-still-waiting-gif-13052487

[vapid tiger]

Minotaurs are the real Iron Warrior descendants

Well probably both tbh

[open marsh]

Yeah both the Minotaurs and Silver Skulls are Iron Warriors

[vapid tiger]

I'm totally convinced Blood Ravens are descended from Thousand Sons or Word Bearer geneseed though

[open marsh]

They are TSons

[vapid tiger]

EhhhhhhhHhHHh

Flesh change but at the same time Word Bearers purged their loyalists before the heresy

[open marsh]

Even in their newest fluff, their Index, it was alluded too

[open marsh]

They still suffer it to a degree. Their aspirants sometimes fall to it and they get locked away for study

[glad prism]

Take allusions with a pinch of salt

[vapid tiger]

Yeah that makes sense

[glad prism]

Coincidences are a thing

[open marsh]

When you see how many "allusions" the Blood Ravens have at being TSons. Trying to take them all with a grain of salt will health issues from too much sodium

[vapid tiger]

But at the same time a lot of the original 1ksons allusions were from c.s. goto and very vague in the original games and its expansions

Word Bearers would work better with the games, TSons is the accepted truth

because it makes dark crusade better

[desert gate]

Loyalist traitors

yawn

[glad prism]

Its just a lazy idea to me

[open marsh]

A huge nail in that coffin is the words of that future scrying psyker the TSons Covidae cult used. Foretelling them becoming the Blood Ravens

[desert gate]

Its super lazy

[open marsh]

And in their Index. They point out that the Blood Ravens own use of future scrying if comparable to that of Amon giving council to Magnus

[desert gate]

But the worst part is that you can't even disprove it 100% because people will be like "But how can you be sure."

Even when black library authors and other authorities on the lore say so

[glad prism]

Like if you can work out they're descended from traitor stock out of universe, surely someone in the inquisition with even an iota of sense would know to suspect something. Special circumstances aside, its just a lazy way to write up a "special" chapter.

[gusty fulcrum]

Well the Blood ravens also could be considered as having show small sign of teh FLesh change like TS

If youve read the novels

cuz near the end one of the new scouts is shown to have minor mutation of tntacle fingers on one hand

but theyre to pressed for new recruits to deem him a reject

[desert gate]

I dont think the flesh change has ever been known to call minor mutations

[gusty fulcrum]

Im just saying it could be nod

But they also had sai somehting bout how they were kinda rushing it and they might see more mutations then normal

i think

is been ahwil since i read the bllod raven novels

[desert gate]

Plus after the rubric anyone with TS geneseed is either a dusty boy or a sorcerer

[gusty fulcrum]

That might just be for those who were still loyal sons

[desert gate]

Thats not how that works though

That's not how geneseed works

[coarse tree]

What's child birth for the Mechanicus like. With all of the machine part replacement

[glad prism]

I would argue it could be if they actually were able to lessen the effects, but even still, I don't wager that to be a particularly compelling argument to them being loyalist Thousand Sons

[gusty fulcrum]

Cuz did they ever say TS who weren theyre for the ritual in person get dusted?

[desert gate]

Yes

[gusty fulcrum]

Mmk

[desert gate]

All of them did

[glad prism]

I'm pretty sure it was universal to their genseseed

[gusty fulcrum]

See i was never sure if it was just those on teh planet and i just assumed the pretty much all were

[glad prism]

They surrendered their geneseed to Tzeentch, like I might be wrong, but that seemed fairly explicit

[vapid tiger]

Oh that's true

[gusty fulcrum]

So maybe the blood ravens didnt get counted?

since they are loyalists no lnger with teh sons?

[open marsh]

Yeah. Their new recruits risk the Flesh Change until they get the full geneseed suite

[gusty fulcrum]

Or what about the stored geneseed of the TS?

[glad prism]

There was that one time where a few were returned from being dust and then immediately slaughtered, but those were only a select few and Ahriman was absolutely livid over it by being driven off. Don't see how that could be applicable to the Blood Ravens

[vapid tiger]

Also easiest excuse for blood ravens to be 1k sons successors is them being from the 21st founding, simply because GW dropped the hints of a 2nd founding origin

[open marsh]

Yeah. Could be some form of stabalized geneseed. Or it being magic, them just not knowing their are TSons may be enough to hold off the rubric

[glad prism]

Another sorta lazy way to go about it, but might just be me

[vapid tiger]

Also explains why the flesh change isn't quite as common as it was amongst the thousand sons, though that could also be due to not recruiting from Prospero

[gusty fulcrum]

Actaully isnt there story or two of someone finding a stash of thousand son geneseed?

[vapid tiger]

but at the same time the flesh change also threatened the legion when it was all Terran

[open marsh]

And it would explain why it seems their secret council is so intent on keeping the rest of the chapter in the dark. Since of the chapter learned of their true heritage, they'd get dusted with the rest of the legion

[vapid tiger]

Yep

Also would help wipe away the fact they're from the Cursed Founding

[glad prism]

I'm pretty sure using the geneseed would still mean them turning to dust if that was legitimately somehow thousand sons geneseed, but I digress

[vapid tiger]

Hell

It's probably likely they had a totally different name prior to M37 and Vidya or whatever his name is

And then changed it to reflect the Corvidae cult after they found out

And wiped the rest of their history

[open marsh]

I don't think they are cursed founding. Their ties lead back to the legion directly. Not just via geneseed

[vapid tiger]

eh, the thing is that the plot thread that leads to that was dropped

[gusty fulcrum]

Well i mean they say BIG MECHBOI Cawl working with traitor geneseed?

[vapid tiger]

and redirected to Janus

[gusty fulcrum]

so i wouldnt be surprised if some ts is being thrown around

[open marsh]

Like specifically they have unsubtle links to the TSons corvidae cult. Even in their newest lore

[gusty fulcrum]

And people point out their ascetic is pretty much preheresy TS

[glad prism]

If it is legitimate, I'm calling that author's thinking behind them to be uninspired

[vapid tiger]

I mean they could easily have learned their heritage and then made those links themselves

[open marsh]

Except they don't know their heritage

That's their thing

[gusty fulcrum]

Ya the higher ups keep that shit as tight or tighter then the DA

[vapid tiger]

I mean in M37, where their history starts for them and something occurred that wiped their history from themselves and the imperium

[gusty fulcrum]

and someof it has just been outright deleted fro chapter records and whats stored is on super lockdown somehwere else

[desert gate]

Woke: Loyal sons who happen to emulate traitor traits sometimes

Broke: Loyalist Traitors

[vapid tiger]

The chapter could've had a totally different name, learned their heritage and had a goddamned civil war or some other drama over it, then emerged later as the Blood Ravens to get a fresh start

[gusty fulcrum]

I mean wouldnt that make ultramiarines and few otehr broke?

[open marsh]

I mean their direct links to the Corvidae cult not only come from the Blood Ravens, but from the Corvidae Cult as well. With that psyker for seeing that the cult would become the Blood Ravens somehow

[vapid tiger]

The Angels Penitent did it relatively recently in galactic history

[gusty fulcrum]

since they include traitor geneseed in teh mix

[desert gate]

There aren't any ultramarines successors with traitor geneseed. No matter what tinfoil hat bois say @gusty fulcrum

[vapid tiger]

Hmmm.

Fair enough

[desert gate]

They may have absorbed some loyalists at the time but their genelines ended their

[gusty fulcrum]

They inducted loyal members of several traior legions and its never said they seprated the geneseeds

[desert gate]

They obviously did.

[vapid tiger]

Still the fact that the primary plot thread leading to that was dropped because the character representing it was made into Janus specifically to avoid explicitly tying the Blood Ravens to TSons

[desert gate]

Because gman in 40k is absolutely against any use of traitor geneseed

And he wouldn't be for it in 30k either

[vapid tiger]

To keep up the "no confirmed traitor descendant loyalists" thing

[gusty fulcrum]

Ya but there also all teh time he spent ya know dead

[glad prism]

I'd say ceremonially they were inducted into the chapters but then died, and with it their stories as being of being the loyalists of the legions that turned away from the emperor. To be ultimately forgotten despite their efforts.

[gusty fulcrum]

and not really having asay

[gusty fulcrum]

But its never stated they never had their geneseed taken

And its not like chimera chapters arnt a thing

albiet as far as we know rare

[glad prism]

Didn't say they surrendered their geneseed to them, only that they were inducted into the loyalist side if at all. Once they died, all their ties to the legion they came from also died with them.

Chimeric doesn't mean it had to include traitorous stock

The Relictors are Ultramarines and Dark Angels too if I recall, and that's still considered a bit fucky by the higher ups

[vapid tiger]

Ijustatefood kind of has a point - I've had this discussion before with someone. Basically, it's totally possible that the Silver Skulls were originally formed with several loyalist Iron Warriors as members, but also not unlikely that those guys didn't have their geneseed survive into the modern day, supplanted by ultramarine geneseed on purpose

[gusty fulcrum]

No im pondering whther the ultramarines actaully might have chimeric geneseed or at lesat have genestrains from those loyal traitors

Cuz its never stated what happeened to those guys and thier geneseed

[glad prism]

My instincts say odds are they didn't let those genes be carried over to the next generation

That's under the assumption they had any sense, anyway.

[gusty fulcrum]

did they just get left to die unharvested or did the apothecaries just include it witht eh rest of the collected geneseed

or send it to terra and let them sort it out maybe?

[vapid tiger]

But it's also possible that by that same token, the Silver Skulls are just mostly Ultramarines descended but have a few Iron Warriors descended marines mixed in and contributing to the geneseed stock

[vapid tiger]

That or they could've contributed it to Terra itself...who would proceed to provide it to the Minotaurs

[gusty fulcrum]

Well they also say ya that the traior loyalists mighta jsut became new chapters

[glad prism]

I'm pretty sure those were the exceptions, maybe extracted them and then disposed of them as to not allow the Inquisition or any other to trace the traitor stock back to them

Or hell, maybe they did send it back to Terra, my thing is that I doubt they hung onto it and used it for future Astartes despite it being potentially useful to do so

[gusty fulcrum]

Well i mean part of what make the curesed founding cursed is that they boothed tweaked loyalists genes but also used traitor geneseed

[vapid tiger]

Silver Skulls are probably just Ultramarines who had some Iron Warriors marines mixed in with their founding though, in all likelihood

Minotaurs are the actual loyalist Iron Warriors and basically kept on a leash and used as a private army for the High Lords

[glad prism]

They dicked around plenty, sure, I just have some doubts behind a lot of it outright

[gusty fulcrum]

Well that would make them chimeric

Cuz after atime theyed hybridize the two geneseeds with the main genes comign from ultamirine stock

[vapid tiger]

Unless the geneseed from the iron warriors geneseed was sent to Terra instead

But it's also possible it's chimeric yes

I do suspect that Red Scorpions aren't actually EC loyalists as many fans believe they are though

[gusty fulcrum]

No theres some otehr loyal chapter thats very on teh nose

I think tehyre called like sons of teh pheonix

And theyre colors are mostly white with purple trim i believe

and are perfectionists

[vapid tiger]

Because there's not enough links other than "they're kinda assholes and have pure geneseed and don't tithe their geneseed"

[vapid tiger]

That's an ultima founding successor and yeah it's very on the nose

I honestly believe that the Red Scorpions, instead of being EC successors, are an elaborate joke.

[open marsh]

The Covenant of Fire are painfully obvious Word Bearers

[gusty fulcrum]

And their a PRimaris chapter

Which leads alotta people to think thier one of Cawls attempts to sneack traitor genes by

[open marsh]

Yeah. They are a modern incarnation of the Ashen Circle. They just need Jumpoacks and hookswords

[vapid tiger]

Because, despite the fact they're literal nazi marines who value genetic purity above all else and claim to have THE PUREST of geneseed and follow the codex astartes to the letter, to a degree the Ultramarines find ridiculous, they're doing this to compensate for themselves.

You see

It's stated they have an overactive Betcher's Gland

[gusty fulcrum]

I mean cmon

[open marsh]

Yeah. Those are Fulgrims boyos

They trear War like a big rock concert and they are the band. With the religious zealots who follow in their wake being like groupies

[gusty fulcrum]

Their crusades are so impressive in spectacle they pave the way for the Imperial Creed to spread across the galaxy, and hence are followed by a great many holy men and women of the Adeptus Ministorum.

Their crusades are so impressive in spectacle

[vapid tiger]

The Red Scorpions are probably some mundane successor who forgot their original founding chapter (the case for many mundane "unknown primarch" chapters) who value genetic purity to an insane extent but try to hide from the rest of the Imperium that their geneseed is actually not 100% pure and slightly mutated

I don't think they're some weird EC successor

Sons of the Phoenix and Death Eagles are the real ones

Since Sons of the Phoenix are way too on the nose and Death Eagles have too many hints for them not to be

[gusty fulcrum]

If EC is a hair metal band of destruction then SOP are a christian metal band on crusade

[open marsh]

But yeah. I don't think the Red Scorpions are EC. They have a focus on their geneseed and nothing else.

And given the purity of their geneseed. That sounds more like Ultramarines

[gusty fulcrum]

Ya cuz teh Ec were about being perfectionists in anything they do not jsut one thing

[open marsh]

Yeah

[gusty fulcrum]

So teh super zealotry and spectacle of it sounds like something the ec would translate to as loyalists pretty well

Wasnt one thing the EC good at was ship to ship boardign actions?

[vapid tiger]

Yeah

Exactly

[open marsh]

The SotP are noise Marines. Just with bolters and artillery instead of Sonic blasters

[vapid tiger]

wait a minute

aurelia

lorgar aurelian

[gusty fulcrum]

HMMMMMM

[open marsh]

Yeah that's a planet the Blood Ravens recruit from

[vapid tiger]

hm

what was relic trying to say

[gusty fulcrum]

THE BLOOD RAVENS ARE TS AND WB

[open marsh]

That they didnt think to double check the name of the planet

[open marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-press-x-la-noire-meme-x-button-gif-19259237

[vapid tiger]

Where's the source for flesh change amongst blood ravens recruits

[open marsh]

Index: Blood Ravens

[gusty fulcrum]

Meh eitehre way teh blood ravens arnt zealous or religous enough to be possible wb candidates

[gusty fulcrum]

Also the last dawn of war blood ravens novel

[open marsh]

They have two "links" to the WBs.

1. the name of their planet is similar to Lorgar's surname

2. their old motto "Knowledge is power" is something Erebus once said.

however, it is also something the Thousand Son Revuel Arvida said

[gusty fulcrum]

Like i said earlier newest scout had tentacle fingers on one hand

[open marsh]

I wouldnt be surprised if Aurelia was a former WB world tho

Like one of the planets they conqoured during the Great Crusade before Big E smacked them

[gusty fulcrum]

And he just gets told to wear a glove XD

[open marsh]

brb. I just got good news in the mail and Im freaking out

[vapid tiger]

Fair enough

[vapid tiger]

tbf

"HELLOOOOOOO BROOOOOOTTHHHEEEEEEERRRR"

third "link"

[open marsh]

Back

Got a letter confirming I have a job interview

This is more than I have gotten in over a year in my job hunt

And its for a state job. So good pay, great benefits, job security, easier-in-government mobility, and perfectly within my skill set

Ill be an IRL version of an Administratum Adept

[gusty fulcrum]

I shall return i hunger and must go in search of grox borger

[vapid tiger]

I accepted a job offer a couple of weeks ago, sent some information to them to get officially hired, haven't heard back yet though. Which is troubling because I've been planning to move based on this job offer

[open marsh]

Corpse Starch is cheaper

[vapid tiger]

so they better not fake out on me

[gusty fulcrum]

True but i saved my crowns and hunger for something more

[open marsh]

yeah. Ill have to move for this one too. and my interview is just a couple of weeks before my lease is up

So this is a fear for me too

I think I have a good chance tho. I made the second highest score on the job exam

[open marsh]

@errant mauveYou shouldnt have mentioned that exceprt from Gorgon of Medusa. Now my brain is wondering: Why the Xth legion no longer officially recognized DuCaine's company and campaign honours,

[gusty fulcrum]

I have returne with grox borg in cheese sauce, and deepfreied cheesespheres

and carbonated flavoured hydro

[errant mauve]

The story goes into pretty much how the Medusans look down or otherwise disrespect the Terran 10th

[open marsh]

Yeh

[errant mauve]

My interpretation is that those were all awarded by him to himself during campaigns when they were still Stormwalkers, and are no longer recognized as a sign of Ferrus' dominance over the legion.

[open marsh]

Still is legion history. I can see the company badges no longer recognized since those companies no longer exist.

But the campaign badges are a different story

@errant mauve another thing that's making me think he might have links to the Thunder Warriors. Even if it just a subconscious thing. Is his portrait is an edited version of Endryd Haar

[slow prawn]

Yep it totally is. Everguild edits photos and art for characters that don’t have any

[open marsh]

Yeh. Which is meh

[errant mauve]

Tbcf Everguild, as Sanctus mentioned, does that a lot.

Did it with what's his name too

Marius Gage

[errant mauve]

I guess it's a thing you'd have to read the book to come to an interpretation of. There was a while thing of Ferrus coming to dominate the 10th with medusan culture, and the divide between Terrans and Medusans, so it fits quite nicely for me.

[open marsh]

Yeah. Either way DuCaine is a lad. Rocking MkI and just keeping it updated

Fucking chad

[errant mauve]

And getting rid of some livery is a much less extreme action compared to what certain primarchs did. Looks at Corvus with discontent

[open marsh]

Well he didnt order DuCaine to remove his livery

[crisp heath]

@open marsh gluck

[open marsh]

That sounded vaguely sexual

[crisp heath]

https://tenor.com/view/if-the-emperor-had-a-text-to-speech-device-slaanesh-patrol-gif-14922012

Slaanesh makes everything sexual wink wink

But yes
Good luck on your job application

[open marsh]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/583590294600024066/853266336117293096/video0.mp4

Anyway, in something I want to be unrelated

I just realized that in the demo combat area that looks like a waiting room, you can see into the bathrooms in the back. Like, right into a stall. I guess this planet doesnt care much for privacy

[dawn bronze]

You mean the two doors sitting next to each other?

[open marsh]

Yeah

you can see the bathroom stall through the left doorway

[gusty fulcrum]

maybe they had curtain at one point and they all got torn down amidst teh crazymess?

But ya on hive world especially if were in sub levels that really doesnt surprise me what surprises me more is that they even have a proper bathroom even

even with the lack of privacy

[tawdry wyvern]

Where are the shells tho? This isn't a real bathroom, probably warp spaghetti

[open marsh]

shells?

[gusty fulcrum]

Its movie ref

[open marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/fubuki-confused-hololive-gif-18015941

[gusty fulcrum]

Also the imperium is waaaaaaaaaay to hostile for that kinda silly shit

unless your paradise worlder

[open marsh]

Do you mean the stalls?

[tawdry wyvern]

Demolition man ref

[open marsh]

I have never seen that

[gusty fulcrum]

Its basicly syslester stallone is hardass action cop after a massive osych

[tawdry wyvern]

You should, its hilarious trash

[gusty fulcrum]

cathes him they both get cryod

ANd they wake up to future where most poeple have the mentality and personality of toddler

[tawdry wyvern]

I'm sure the big e has them on his golden throne too

[gusty fulcrum]

Its suppose to take the piss outta nanny laws

[odd tulip]

"Look at this guy! He doesn't know how to use the 3 sea shells!"

[gusty fulcrum]

But yes a running gag is at some point they replace toilet paper with three shells

And no one ever relaly tells him how it works

He jsut figures it out as part of the end movie montage XD

[tawdry wyvern]

They enacted a total anti violence society. Even police doesn't go any further than order the suspect to stop his activities. The only thing allowed in their protocols are vague threats. Cursing is also fined. Stallone makes his toilet paper with cursing

[gusty fulcrum]

Not even that at that point the didnt even know what an arrest was

So they went super fuckign hard on everything

cuz rememebr they didnt even have actaul sex anymore

It was total nanny law policy to protect you from you

Basicly everything was childproof

too

That movie is both hilarous and disturbding

[tawdry wyvern]

I need to rewatch this movie again. It felt so totally out of its frame compared to other movies at that time

[gusty fulcrum]

Oh ya

it was definently something different

Its kinda like if idiocracy was a more serious action movie

But rather then it being cuz stupid people outbred smart people its more like wally where everyone is kept super safe and pampered to the point theyre like toddlers

Theyre radio sounds like kids bop

[tawdry wyvern]

Yep, that fits quite well

[gusty fulcrum]

Taco bell became a 5 star restuarnt as a result of literally live fire war between the big food companies

ANd now you get to pay 50 bucks for one really fancy nacho ona pl;ate

Its one of those movies where ya ya know its silly shit but you can also sorta see it happening in real life

[tawdry wyvern]

I mean, our big fast food franchises try to dip their toes from time to time into the "Premium fast food pool"

So at least they try

[storm jungle]

https://j.gifs.com/yoQjdl.gif

[heavy pine]

then he use the language taxes paper for the toilet

[open marsh]

That sounds extra uncomfortable if you have hemorrhoids

Tho I guess if the shells are sharp, then you won't have them for long

[dim totem]

I think it was implied the three seashells somehow controlled a bidet?

Idk been a while since I saw demolition man

[coarse mirage]

It's prophetic

[open marsh]

Apparently, from one of the writers. You hook two of the shells together to make a spreader to spread your ass cheeks, then you use the 3rd to scrap off and dispose of any residue

Which sounds extraordinarily unsanitary since they arent disposable.

[storm jungle]

Too grimdark

[dim totem]

Also sounds like a recipe for hemmoroidisaster

[open marsh]

Like I said. If they are sharp. You wont have that issue for long

[open marsh]

Anyway. More 40k lore: a tech-priest makes the mistake of trying to teach people how machines actually work:

The Mechanicus are just 40k Apple Inc.

[barren tapir]

There was a post on reddit asking this

[open marsh]

That was me

[barren tapir]

Ah, a levelist

[barren tapir]

So you got your answer

[open marsh]

yeh

[barren tapir]

Did you asked here too?

[open marsh]

One of the responses was the heretek's name. And thats all my brain needed to unlock the rest of the memory

[barren tapir]

Because i knew about him, but i don't have reddit

[prisma lark]

so the reason why stuff from the DAOT might not work is actually because of... planned obsolescence?

[open marsh]

idk. maybe I asked on several servers. and my question was ignored on every single one

[storm jungle]

cant blame you blank, r/40klore is usually shit lol

i asked a custodian question once and half of it was TTS jokes

[barren tapir]

Eh, i make sure to read only all messages on this channel, if you asked in other channels here i probably missed it

Levelist are a very interesting faction btw

[open marsh]

This is why I ask very specific questions about the deeper / more niche lore that TTS hasnt gotten around to ruining yet

[barren tapir]

Not as heretics as logicians

[storm jungle]

god I know

[barren tapir]

But close, really close as Ryne found out

[open marsh]

And to be fair. Its information i already knew, just the full memory was locked away in the back of my brain and I couldnt access all of it

All I could remember was that there was a heretek who was declared such for trying to teach common people. and the lore was somewhere in the Dark heresy gamebooks

[storm jungle]

thanks reddit

[barren tapir]

Lol, it was you?

Damn, i should check more often the person who post

[storm jungle]

lmao yeah secondary account i use to post questions and such, i dont want my main one getting clogged up

my main account uses the same name i use here anyway and its just for posting memes half the time

[barren tapir]

I remember seeing some of your post

[storm jungle]

[barren tapir]

I was expecting that post to be full of "making carpets" comments, that is also why i didn't open it... I guess i was saved from awful comments, although not of the type i was thinking

[visual pumice]

Overused joke >40k

[storm jungle]

man me too

because i know its either that or "one of them does yoga"

[cerulean wagon]

they do the jojo dilara

smh

[storm jungle]

oh yeah good timing

i seriously wish TTS memes were banned there lol

[cerulean wagon]

yeaaaaah

[crisp heath]

ahahaha

TTS WILL NEVER DIE

ngl at this rate it'll outlive the franchise

[storm jungle]

I hope it does with the pace alfabusa makes episodes

https://tenor.com/view/trash-good-riddance-garbage-bye-gif-17322254

[crisp heath]

https://tenor.com/view/emperor-wh40k-warhammer-warhammer40k-tts-gif-21268269

[storm jungle]

https://youtu.be/CBE_eo_JGPM

[open marsh]

To be fair. TTS isnt the problem. Its the unimagiantive shitbirds who think endlessly spamming jokes from it makes them funny

[storm jungle]

Too true

[crisp heath]

life in general.

People who think knowing references and jokes substitutes for personality smh

[coarse mirage]

Are Grey Knights already "primaris"?

[open marsh]

No

[coarse mirage]

did Cawl not get that geneseed then?

[storm jungle]

Im pretty sure Primaris GK is down the pipeline

[coarse mirage]

Seems like it would be an extremely, absurdly difficult recruitment process

[storm jungle]

you mean the 666 trials

kill me

and yeah jokes aside the GK recruitment is INCREDIBLY dumb and makes no sense

the recruit numbers are nightmarish

[peak hamlet]

You mere mortal!

[barren tapir]

Really? I mean, their chapter number is also 666, and the words of power are also 666

[storm jungle]

Yeah i get what it references but like its so on the nose and edgy

[barren tapir]

I understand that symbolsim is stonk in the warp, but that is BS, especially since it is symbolism of a dead religion too

[storm jungle]

Dont question it

[barren tapir]

Ok, i will judge them then

Harshly too

[storm jungle]

They deserve it

[coarse mirage]

is it correct that Chaos would be able to do whatever if daemons weren't so bound by ritual?

[barren tapir]

No, because then they wouldn't be able to interact

The powers of the warp entities is linked to what people think they can do

If you don't need rituals to keep them under control it mean that they are weak, and since they are weak they can't do shiz...
But if they need rituals to be kept in check that mean they are strong, but limited

[coarse mirage]

How can that be the case if their power is linked to if people thikn they are powerful?

[barren tapir]

Do you need rituals to bind a fly? No, because it is weak, but you need a ritual to bind a force that you think is so strong that cannot be left without control... It is a very circular thing, but instead of starting with the entity being strong it start with you thinking that it need a ritual to be controlled

Instead of thinking "oh, that is so strong and that is because it need rituals" think " it need rituals, so it must be strong"

There is a reason as why chaos entities don't like to stand near bile, and that is because he weaken them by simply telling them they are worthless

[coarse mirage]

But if it's a greater daemon, you would need to bind it because that's just what they are, regardless of what you think it is

[barren tapir]

Eeehh, that still follow my train of thought, just in a bigger picture

[coarse mirage]

I think that's more about Bile being a disbeliever, it gives him a blank power

[crisp heath]

iirc it's a bit of a two way street

[barren tapir]

They are still part of a god, and you think that god is strong

[crisp heath]

demons get stronger with belief
but some of them are just naturally strong

You don't need to believe in a bloodthirster being strong for it to cleave you in half for instance

it'll do it regardless

[barren tapir]

Nah, their "natural" strength is still linked to the how much strong you think they are

[barren tapir]

If you are strong enough of will you can

[crisp heath]

not always, because demons are borne from the essence of their patron god

[barren tapir]

And again, greater demons are just bigger chunks of warp entities

[coarse mirage]

But they are strong without that when they're in the Warwp

I think you've misunderstood the way Bile works

[crisp heath]

Yeah but that's never going to happen

[barren tapir]

What is the warp if not the materialisation of beliefs?

[barren tapir]

Big E disagree

[coarse mirage]

Splitting hairs

[crisp heath]

Big E is also the only one of his kind ( atm )

which is why you split dreams /goals to current, applicable facts

and reasonable outcomes

[barren tapir]

No, it is literally what it is, without people beliefs it is nothing, exactly what warp entities are too

[coarse mirage]

For Bile it's about force of will, his disbelief works like a blank would work, he is an ACT of disbelief with is a belief in itself. That is what makes him yucky to daemons.

[crisp heath]

you're technically correct that if nobody cares or feeds the chaos gods, they'll all just go hungry and poof away

but that's not how the 40k universe works atm

at least not realistically

[barren tapir]

Yes, so you thinking a demons is weak weaken them

[crisp heath]

because even if you don't fear the big scary demon
it's still going to kill you

[barren tapir]

Which is what i was saying from the beginning

[crisp heath]

that said, this statement also has inherent issues

[coarse mirage]

No

[crisp heath]

since demons basically have no physical manifestation

which is why they need to be binded to something/summoned

without a physical link, they taper off and die on their own

[barren tapir]

You said that yourself

[crisp heath]

which is why they usually get a host

Also
Van is right that you do need binds

mainly because it's not worth going through the effort of summoning a demon

if you just grab an imp

demon summoning is a pain in the ass, with a lot of magical stupid mystic mumbo jumbo

if you're going to summon a weak demon, it's not only a waste of your time

it's probably not strong enough to do whatever you want it to do to begin with

the balancing act is summoning a demon that is actually strong

but not strong enough to break through your seals and devour your soul

which is why demon summoning tends to be.. high profile?

why would you summon a daemonette that's fairly limited in what it can do

[barren tapir]

The original question was "if the demons wouldn't need rituals would they break stuff?", and the asnwer is no, because you use rituals only for strong things, if they don't need rituals they aren't strong, and will not break anything

[crisp heath]

you'll learn and get to do nothing

[coarse mirage]

He doesn't think daemons are weak though. He thinks they are garbage, not worth the time, he detests them. Believing in them does give them strength obviously, but they are strong without that belief too. It doesn't matter how much Bile thinks Skarbrand is garbage, Skarbrand would still kill him.

[crisp heath]

is it correct that Chaos would be able to do whatever if daemons weren't so bound by ritual?

tldr
they need hosts

or the planet to be in the warp

Demons are just emotions/psychic bullshit made manifest

[barren tapir]

Bile is just one

And i said he think they are worthless

[crisp heath]

so i guess the answer to that specific question is
it depends

[barren tapir]

Which manage to weaken them when in proximity

[crisp heath]

does it have a host?
is the planet in the warp?

[coarse mirage]

Like a blank would

[crisp heath]

and
how strong is the base demon to begin with

daemon princes are ( in lore ) able to basically fuck around the world they conquer

once they pull it into the warp

[barren tapir]

Blanks are definitely stronger in effect

[crisp heath]

but out of the warp, they're much more limited

[barren tapir]

Still talking about blanks wasn't the focus of the question

[coarse mirage]

Well I can see your point.

[barren tapir]

BTW i think that bile kill one, or maybe it was a keeper of secret with a serum made with blank blood

So, yes, i think he can harm skarjband if he want

[coarse mirage]

THen would Necron have this effect?

or Tyranid

[barren tapir]

Necrons don't have souls, they don't have an innate effect on the warp, but they can reach the same goal with their pylons

[crisp heath]

of killing/hurting demons?

hard answer since they don't really power the demons to begin with

tho Tyranids have brawled with demons before

[barren tapir]

Nids with their shadow in the warp can prevent demons to spawn in the materium

[crisp heath]

Devastation of Baal had a Bloodthirster fighting off the Tyranids

[barren tapir]

There is an hive fleet that specialise in fighting chaos forces, and even demons

[crisp heath]

I think they can stop demons from manifesting, yea

but I don't think they can "kill" demons

unless they can somehow get into the warp and kill a chaos god

banishing them back to the warp's the closest they can do methinks

[barren tapir]

Well, that depend on what we mean when we say killing demons

[crisp heath]

ye

kill their physical presence, sure.

But kill as in wipe their existence, much harder

[barren tapir]

We mean sending back to the warp?
Or erasing their energies?

[crisp heath]

Former's possible
Latter, don't believe so

I think the same goes with the Necrons

Or with most conventional "killing" of demons anyway.

[barren tapir]

The first is easily done by the nids
The second nope, but they also don't care since they prevent demons to manifest

[crisp heath]

Really can't "hurt" demons conventionally

[coarse mirage]

That was about the blood spillt

[crisp heath]

which is what Van means by disbelief being the strongest weapon

[barren tapir]

Remember to erase the warp energies of demons you need strong will

Nids aren't really strong willed are they?

[coarse mirage]

But you'd have to be a being with a soul to have that disbelief effect then

[barren tapir]

And necrons haven't the connection to modify the warp

[crisp heath]

hard technicality to think of

Can you be strong willed if you have no emotion other than to serve

[coarse mirage]

Only the shadow in the warp the swarm makes

[crisp heath]

which is like nids in general lmao

but really, Nids don't care about Demons anyway

other than if they're interrupting their meals

[coarse mirage]

So you gotta not believe, really hard

[barren tapir]

Nids hate demons because no biomass

[crisp heath]

that's the ultimate, eventual pipe-dream, yes

which is really fucking hard

[coarse mirage]

They do have a swarm specialised in killing daemons

[barren tapir]

Yes, and that is why the Imperial Truth wasn't a lie, contrary to what many people think, it is just easier to think that a god protect you than thinking that you don't need protection

[crisp heath]

ye but that's not because they're "preying" on them

it's more of an eventual side effect

[barren tapir]

Yes, i have said the same some comments up

[crisp heath]

since they were eating too many chaos cultists

that demons got pissy

in a neutral state, they probably wouldn't care about each other tbh

[barren tapir]

Hive fleet kronos btw, the fleet that actively hunt chaos followers

[crisp heath]

but when tyranids wanna eat cultists, and chaos demons wanna eat cultists

it's inevitable they clash

[storm jungle]

I mean

[coarse mirage]

I think they know that they needed to

[storm jungle]

that wouldnt matter tho

the nids get the flesh, the demons get the souls pledged to them

its a win-win

[crisp heath]

kinda

but they still need living culltists now and then

yknow

[storm jungle]

its fine

the galaxy is filled with em

[barren tapir]

Demons need cultists

[coarse mirage]

But we also know that zoanthropes feed on souls

[barren tapir]

Living cultists

[storm jungle]

[crisp heath]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-hersey-kiss-gif-13625285

[coarse mirage]

floaty brain nids

[barren tapir]

The shadow in the warp also feed on souls

And that is also why i need to make an obligatory post pro-blanks: souls are so a liability, blanks are the next step of mankind! Big E was wrong all the time!!

[storm jungle]

I mean

has anyone actually denied a race of Blanks being a bad thing?

Its literally one of the best solutions

[crisp heath]

tbf
I'm already a blank.

[storm jungle]

same

[crisp heath]

aka
my head = empty

[storm jungle]

mine is uni stuff draining my soul

im halfway empty by now

[crisp heath]

gluck
Ull be fine

[storm jungle]

uwu

but yeah Blanks are neat

bring back pariahs already GW you fuckheads

[barren tapir]

Yeah, someone stated that blanks couldn't travel via the warp... Which is wrong since SoS were used to make warp travel possible between warp storms

[storm jungle]

I mean its a lot better than getting demon'd thats for sure

[crisp heath]

I dunno I think a Slaaneshi demon can make those last moments fun
yknowwhatimean-

[barren tapir]

There is a lot of misinformation regarding blanks though

[grand minnow]

Its kinda weird to have pariahs new lore wise, since they were made via biotransference whitch i assume they hate

[atomic pelican]

[coarse mirage]

wrong section

[open marsh]

The Necrons arent unified in their hatred of biotransference. Some dynasties embrace it

[grand minnow]

Oh ok, dam i gotta read more on them

[coarse mirage]

Found a cool chapter

Space Naga's

Might be a player made one, not sure, but I like the design

[open marsh]

That's a homebrew

[storm jungle]

better than most official successors thats for sure

[final spruce]

Breeding stock intensifies

[vapid tiger]

Better than some homebrew designs that end up looking way too weird or busy

Would be neat to see marines in the same color scheme as the marines in the totally-not-40k cover art for Bolt Thrower's Realm of Chaos album that's a result of not being able to use the RT cover art because of some contract expiring

They had to hunt down the guy who drew the original rogue trader cover art to draw this

[odd sparrow]

y

[open marsh]

Know what would be cool? A renegade/traitor Astartes chapter that joins the T'au for safe harbor. Eventually incorporating Tau tech into their wargear

[odd sparrow]

that would def be the best way to handle tau aligned marines imo

[tawdry wyvern]

I thought the very reason of the gellar field is to build a real space bubble around the ship to make it somewhat save to travel in the warp. So, if blanks are in this field, where would there be a problem to begin with?

[open marsh]

Yee. Since its the same mentality for joining Chaos. Just Tau instead

I mentioned the idea on Reddit and I'm fairly sure it's my lowest voted post yet. The amount of salt was insane

[summer niche]

tau equiped marines would be horrifying

[crisp heath]

I find it hard to believe unless they're renegades
But it could work

Honeslty surprised that hasn't happened yet

[summer niche]

alpharius did work with the cabal for a bit

but it's obvious he kinda hated them at the same time

lol

[crisp heath]

Chapters turning to chaos because they're renegadea now is believable for people (somehow) but SM renegades working with Tau isn't?

[cerulean wagon]

I think the issue is that if they are giving up one oppressive overseer why would they move to another

[open marsh]

Yeah it wouldn't happen unless they had already turned against the Imperium. The Tau tried to convert a captured Raven Guard. He blammed himself

[cerulean wagon]

chaos is a fall from grace, moving to tau is a choice

[crisp heath]

Chaos, Xenos

Same potato

[open marsh]

^

[cerulean wagon]

not really same potato

[crisp heath]

Unless the idea is that

[cerulean wagon]

chaos is a corruption, you don't just go "oh yeah no i feel like joining" unless your a psychopath

its something that turns you against your will usualy

[crisp heath]

That implies that all SM turn just because of chaos

And not because sometimes they're alienated by bureaucracy

If that's the canon then sure
No space marine tau regenades

[open marsh]

There was a group of loyalist Alpha Legion who upgraded their plasma guns with Tau tech. So they no longer GOT HOT

[summer niche]

hue

FEAR

[crisp heath]

But i'm pretty sure we have instances of renegades who move away from the imperium

Cos they hate some shit about it

[final spruce]

A lot of CSM joined Chaos for different reasons

[cerulean wagon]

Oh 100% there are renegades who arent chaos and just move away from the imperium

[crisp heath]

If that's still canon
Then that shows that not all renegades/traitors are because of chaos

[final spruce]

Some got charmed by Chaos, others were tired of working for humans meanwhile being "superior" themselves, some wanted more freedom

[open marsh]

The Night Reapers are an example they didn't turn to Chaos. Tho they did have a bunch of Xenos WMDs

[cerulean wagon]

but as i said if they are moving away because "fuck this bureaucracy n shit" i don't really see them joining the tau, the politics faction

[crisp heath]

And if they can have a difference of opinion like that
Then tau working isn't really the worst lol

[crisp heath]

Not really that there has to be one
But the possibility is now there because the gap has widened imo

[summer niche]

i get where skeleton is coming from

[crisp heath]

Same

[summer niche]

don't most marines have that hypnotherapy ingrained in them?

to hate xenos

[cerulean wagon]

That too

[crisp heath]

Kinda

[cerulean wagon]

most SM hate xenos even post renegade

[summer niche]

imperial space marins already slaughter xenox

[cerulean wagon]

theres a reason chaos forces don't have some of the chaos xenos races in their fold

[summer niche]

chaos space mariens do even worse

[crisp heath]

Ultimately it's really down to how you understand/interpret a character that undergoes a radical shift of character

[barren tapir]

I have no idea, i tried to understand their "reasons" but that is exactly what they lack reason

[summer niche]

i could see some space marines somehow ending up under lik farsight

or something

[crisp heath]

Since the only thing keeping a space marine sane is "faith" being their only character

[summer niche]

cause farsight is ap retty cool dude

[final spruce]

So much so that usually, even after joining Chaos, they willingly slaughter xenos

[crisp heath]

Tbf that's just chaos in general

[final spruce]

More than before

[cerulean wagon]

Basically the gellar field keeps the warp at bay making a real space bubble, so blanks would not affects that as they would be in a bubble of real space not interacting with the warp still

[crisp heath]

They'd slaughter their friends happily

Saying they'd slaughter xenos is par for the course

[barren tapir]

He was asking why some people think that blanks couldn't warp travel

[cerulean wagon]

because some poeple are stupid

[crisp heath]

Blanks can warp travel
How else would Jurgen get anywhere

[barren tapir]

Eh, same conclusion i reached

[odd tulip]

Isn't one of the big secrets of gellar field generators that they have a blank('s corpse) inside of them?

[cerulean wagon]

walking

smh

[open marsh]

Might not even be "I hate beaucracy". Could have been that the Imperium left them out to dry. Like refused to resupply them for one form or another. While always demanding they do more. And never honoured their sacrifices.

Que them eventually telling the Imperium to piss off. The Imperium getting their whoppin' stick. The (now renegade) chapter fleeing. Where in the Tau offer them an outstretched hand.

With no real choice, the chapter begrudgingly accepts. But over time, realize the Tau treat them better than the Imperium did. Keep them well supplied. Honour their victories and sacrifices. Etc.

So they stick around. They get to strike back at the Imperium than abused and abandoned them, while fighting for someone (even if they are xenos) who value them

[cerulean wagon]

🤷 depends who you ask

[crisp heath]

Hahaha
Considering it's Jurgen I wouldn't even be surprised

[barren tapir]

Go tell that to the people that say " a blank race cannot exist because they wouldn't be able to expand and use the warp"

[cerulean wagon]

looks at tau

[odd tulip]

Aren't necrons basically a blank race?

[cerulean wagon]

[crisp heath]

Dan Abnett himself has a blank in his books casually space travel while reading porn slates

[cerulean wagon]

And ye pmuch gawain

[crisp heath]

( and telling it to like a 14 year old boy )

Zael moment

[open marsh]

They have souls. Just very smol ones

[crisp heath]

I mean
Ahem
Hyperion*

[barren tapir]

No... A book with a stoned GK say that gellars fields are made from comatose psykers, ignoring that gellar fields existed way before psykers started appearing in mankind in significant numbers

[final spruce]

Wait what ?

[odd sparrow]

i thought necrons souls were meant to have been nommed by the starbastards

[final spruce]

They have

[odd sparrow]

hence nothing psychic

[crisp heath]

Ye they have

I dunno if they somehow recovered it or w/e tho
Newcrons r weird

[final spruce]

Unless Bio-transferance gives you a soul, which is stupid

[odd sparrow]

,, just gives u a soul

that's weird

[crisp heath]

Pariahs still make me sad

[open marsh]

Yeah. They have the smallest fragment of a soul in them. Just enough to animate their robotic bodies

Lucius the Eternal was able to possess one that killed him

[final spruce]

You mean mister plot armor ?

[summer niche]

[crisp heath]

Tbf Lucius is a cheating fuck

[summer niche]

lucious

[odd sparrow]

we dont talk about lucius and his dumbass ability

fuck that

[crisp heath]

He stepped on a landmine

And some poor factory worker turned into him cos slaanesh thought it was hilarious

[odd sparrow]

lucius died like 9k years ago

this is my hc and i will not be dissuaded

[final spruce]

Yeah especially when the lower necrons are supposed to have no emotions and just destroy

[crisp heath]

What a cheat

[open marsh]

Also Orikan was able to basically astral project his soul out of his robot body

[barren tapir]

TBF lucius don't even need a body to reincarnate, it is just slaneesh that find that process funny

[final spruce]

Which is why bbasic necrons that get the destroyer virus barely get noticed

[odd sparrow]

so why can't necrons use or really perceive psychic stuff then

[crisp heath]

Yup lol

[odd sparrow]

if they do have lil souls

[crisp heath]

I bet Slaanesh was just lmaoing

When he turned a necron into Lucius

BUT IT ENJOYS KILLING PEOPLE HUEUEUE LOOPHOLE WOOO

[summer niche]

i can just imagine khorne starting at him from across teh table

[barren tapir]

I always knew that they weren't really connected to the warp, and that their souls got nommed by the c'tan after the bio stuff

[summer niche]

"you can't keep doing this"

[crisp heath]

Tbf he does it with Kharn too

He's just much less pretentious about it iirc

[barren tapir]

But maybe my info are quite outdated

[open marsh]

Most don't have enough of a soul. Orikan is different. Due to being a chief chronomancer

[final spruce]

Nah even the 9th edition necron codex says so

That they are souless

[odd sparrow]

weird fluff

[cerulean wagon]

lets just be honest, most chaos writing is just bad

[summer niche]

orikan makes it work through sheer amounts of salt produced

[odd sparrow]

orikan my beloved

[summer niche]

bio-transference REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[open marsh]

The codex gives the most basic easy to understand info so readers don't get swamped in the minutia of try to explain the situation

[crisp heath]

Abnett still has the best

[barren tapir]

And lets be honest, many authors just write what they think is cool don't giving a shit about established lore

[crisp heath]

Even if some of it is a bit weird sometimes

[odd sparrow]

good lord dont pass it off as an it's quite complex so the codex abridges it! thing

[crisp heath]

Blood pact is awesome

[odd sparrow]

it's inconsistent writing

[crisp heath]

The pacifist chaos Cultist is hilarious

[tawdry wyvern]

Yes, I think this is exactly the reason. Anything else seems pointless

[crisp heath]

The engines of woe
More like
Engines of WOAHH

Chaos can be so much more fun and weird

[summer niche]

lmao

[crisp heath]

But most authors are like

[cerulean wagon]

"However, while psykers channel the energies of the Warp to accomplish their seemingly supernatural feats, a Cryptek uses their highly advanced knowledge of science and technology to manipulate the purely physical universe's fundamental forces and produce many of the same seemingly magical effects."

[open marsh]

I mean it often does

[crisp heath]

EHEHEHE EVIL PLOTTING like they're just roided skaven

[cerulean wagon]

so he does it without being a psyker

hes just using magic science

[odd sparrow]

40k is never sufficiently complex that there would even be any point

meh weird

[summer niche]

ye orikan uses those runes

[odd sparrow]

Ye that's how i always interpreted it

[summer niche]

pretty cool stuff honestly

[open marsh]

Question. Does the codex say if the Iron Hands like xenos tech? Like would they plug xenos tech into their bionics?

[cerulean wagon]

its expected its the necrons

[summer niche]

he a cheater doh, keeps rewinding time when he fucks up

[cerulean wagon]

they dont have psykers

[open marsh]

Yeah thats fair

They have the excuse of "significantly advanced technology = magic"

[tawdry wyvern]

You mean he uses qicksave/quickload scumming?

[open marsh]

Yup

Thats exactly what he did

[odd sparrow]

tfw you savescum your trial like 5 times before realising that ur found guilty in every possible timeline

[tawdry wyvern]

So basically he's the protagonist of the story and everything else, even emperor are npcs

[barren tapir]

Wait... Valdoris too can do something similar

[open marsh]

Also says that the Destroyers had a few "embers" of their soul left....which they gave up to be even more killy

[final spruce]

Isn't it the same argument as "Codex lore isn't 100% true" ? Or are you just using it when it fits your views ?

[odd sparrow]

it's just inconsistent. a million diff things refer to crons as soulless and like, they still have a lil bit of their souls left! sorta neuters their fluff

given it completely revolves around them having lost their souls

so my hc is they have nothing

[crisp heath]

Usual bad writing syndrome popping up

[odd sparrow]

™️

[crisp heath]

40K's honestly always had this lmao

Shit is too focused on being cool

[odd sparrow]

ye duh 40k is super inconsistent and up to the author

[crisp heath]

That they tend to contradict themselves

[odd sparrow]

tbh i dont expect GW to never contradict itself

[crisp heath]

Cos YEEEE WHAT'S MORE METAL THAN SOMEONE GIVING UP THEIR SOUL

[open marsh]

No. Just what I was getting at earlier. The main sections of the codex go with a simplier story to get the general point across. To give the feel of the faction

[barren tapir]

I think that was the author derping out, as they may intend as coscience as soul

[odd sparrow]

that's inevitable working with a setting this big and with this many authors

[crisp heath]

Way too many authors-

Ye

Plus considering they're not rlly coordinating with each other

Good luck

[odd sparrow]

GW has at least had the decency to not attempt to establish a cohesive canon

[cerulean wagon]

its weird cause

[crisp heath]

Look at horus heresy

[odd sparrow]

their policy is just choose ur own hc

[cerulean wagon]

they have the capacity to coordinate

see: HH

they just dont

[odd sparrow]

yeah it's sorta odd

[barren tapir]

Since destroyes lose themself in their hate for living stuff, so it would make sense that they use soul=coscience

[crisp heath]

I'd say that's the opposite-

Horus Heresy if anything is the show that they rlly don't understand each other

Since instead of esch author writing a specific character

They just kinda write about specific events
And muck up motivations and character plots

:whenlife:

[cerulean wagon]

thats the thing tho rin

HH was done with guide lines and coordination

cause it had a preset story

[crisp heath]

Done super badly then

[cerulean wagon]

well yeah, cause it went from

[crisp heath]

I don't wanna sound like an abnett fanboy but

[cerulean wagon]

the first 3-4 books which are amazing

[crisp heath]

Real nosedive-

Ye

[cerulean wagon]

too

a mess

and like

abnett kicks it off strong with book 1

2 and 3 were great follow ups

im less enthused with 4 but its alright

Abnett, mcneil and counter did a great job tho

[open marsh]

Huh. i forgot the Silent King can just hijack the webway when he feels like

blanks out for a second

[crisp heath]

Bet he does it

Silently

[open marsh]

The Silent King's big man chair.....does almost the same thing as Big E's big man chair

[barren tapir]

Well, wasn't stated that the golden throne was of xeno origin? And that it was being studied on terra during the Age of Tech? And that the glass one was an imperial prototype, maybe even older?

[open marsh]

And both need an extreme....one would say godly.....power source

[open marsh]

Or what if both were older versions of the Silent King's big man chair? Both prototypes for his

[barren tapir]

Also if big E fought a c'tan shard, well guess from where it may have come on terra

[barren tapir]

Also probable yes

[tawdry wyvern]

4th was Eisenstein, right?

[cerulean wagon]

ye

[barren tapir]

I was more on golden throne same as silent king throne

[open marsh]

It would explain so much. How it was able to access the webway, yet really didnt feel.....Aeldari. Since their webway gates dont work like that

[tawdry wyvern]

Ah well, it had the Lord of flies, I don't know how it changed the impact because I heard the audio book, but damn, that plot was dope af

[open marsh]

@barren tapirWasnt the Golden Throne dug up in Egypt?

[barren tapir]

It way to enter the webway it is definitely too crude for being eldar stuff, but it seems also crude to be necron stuff to me... Unless as you theorised was a prototype, and even a necron prototype would be considered super advanced tech even for big E

[barren tapir]

IIRC middle-east

Or maybe himalaya

[tawdry wyvern]

Hymalaya would be comfortable for the big golden boi

[open marsh]

okay nvm

[barren tapir]

IIRC big E was thinking where to build the palace and then found out the throne and went "well, that is kinda nice"

[open marsh]

Yeah I remembered after you said it

He didnt risk moving the device

he just built around it

[barren tapir]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/448690561541603349/831668882107924510/ThinkAboutIt.gif

[tawdry wyvern]

I like bardins bushy nosehair

Still don't understand how he can breath through them

Probably stubbornness

[open marsh]

Also. real talk. The destruction of the Dark Glass station hurt my soul

Imagine if the station could have been secured. Another "golden throne" even if its a lesser/earlier version

It could have been studied so we'd have a better idea how the Golden Throne works

[tawdry wyvern]

True

[barren tapir]

Same with the pharos

[tawdry wyvern]

A bit off topic, but does somebody know in which time w40k gladius takes place? Because the chatter of the IG troops talks about Guilliman as he is alive

[open marsh]

The Pharos repaired itself. Then Cawl visited it and downloaded all the relevant data from its cogitators

[tawdry wyvern]

Which btw is hilarious in the german translation, because they still use Guillaume

[open marsh]

The current setting

[barren tapir]

In its entirety? I understood it repaired some damage but not all

[open marsh]

Yeah. It was fully operational again by the time Cawl revisited it

[tawdry wyvern]

So, sooner or later the space marines+ might also enter the game as dlc

[barren tapir]

Noice, that make me wishing for a return of Dantioch with something like, "yeah, i uploaded my mind in the machine, and now i have a new body, lets kick some traitors assess!"

[open marsh]

It doesnt happen. In fact, even the Scythes of the Emperor have all but forgotten him.

Hnnngggg....rereading Path to Heaven. Them finding and boarding the Dark Glass station. Trying to get it back on line

Finding derelict, ancient ships or space stations, and getting them back online.....ooohhh that hits buttons for me

[storm jungle]

[barren tapir]

It is interesting to me too

I lore recovering stuff

Recycling or simply refitting stuff

That also remember me that the Ad. Mech. do that regularly, and that they were prohibited to do so with chaos vessels in the big G fleet in the indomitus crusade

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Salvator_Ark

Here... I discovered this when updating my knowledge of the Ad. Mech., and it only added to my interest for the faction...

[open marsh]

Imagine finding an ancient, derelict fleet floating in the void. And getting all those ships back up to snuff

[barren tapir]

Heavy binaric breathing

[storm jungle]

[barren tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/kane-dance-command-and-conquer-gif-11455202

Is excitement the same as being horny?

[open marsh]

No

[storm jungle]

Yah

[barren tapir]

🤔 🤔

[open marsh]

@barren tapirWe should totally start a Rogue Trader house who builds their fleet by salvaging such ancient ships

[barren tapir]

Uhm... Ok, i'm interested...

[open marsh]

[weak fern]

🧐

I refuse to play the Magos Explorator ! I refuse to build your ship !

[barren tapir]

AH! I just saw your post on reddit Nuclear, the one regarding tau SM

[vapid tiger]

y

[storm jungle]

a tau SM thread?

man that'd get locked fast

the mods are assholes most of the time when it comes to those posts

[final spruce]

As I'd expect from a grimdank mod

[barren tapir]

It is still open

46 comments

[storm jungle]

a good streak

[weak fern]

Women and guys, give love to your Skitarii

[cloud kindle]

thats a dangerous topic you have there

[open marsh]

And it's all salt

Cool idea: a tech-marine training with the Earth Caste

[barren tapir]

Ah, there is already an homebrew tau mechanicus sect

[odd sparrow]

sir you can just use one of our cranes they're far less inconvenient and
CRANES GO ON BACK

[tawdry wyvern]

Can you post a link?

[open marsh]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/oao6rh/we_need_a_chapter_of_tau_marines_gueronvesa_in/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[tawdry wyvern]

Ohhh, was looking in the wrong sub reddit, thanks

Lol, some reasonable arguments with how their indoctrination might go against it, and then full on the salt/sarcasm train. Fans being fan-atics is always funny

[odd sparrow]

Ah yes

for it is known that space marines began defecting to fucking chaos within the first few centuries of their existence

[open marsh]

Yeah. Normally their indoctrination would prevent them from joining the Tau. But indoctrination can (and does) fail. Like they aren't supposed to be joining Chaos....but guess what happens

[odd sparrow]

but an alien race unpopular among neckbeards? unthinkable

inconceivable

[open marsh]

But Ratty. Muh indoctrination.

[cerulean wagon]

tbf theres a difference between psychic taint and blue people

[barren tapir]

One is purple, the other is blue i guess

[open marsh]

Chaos doesn't always corrupt chapters psychically

[odd sparrow]

idk the way i see it is like. astartes group goes renegade for whatever reason, usually probs relating to some scuffle with the human authorities, and eventually the indoctrination becomes less of an influence

so u can p much write them into joining up with whoever

[open marsh]

Exactly

[odd sparrow]

like obvs at the end of the day most of this is for like, kitbashed armies and stuff

which is just whatever fun army u wanna make, who cares about the fluff

But still, yeah idk

[tawdry wyvern]

The amount of googly eyes is too damn low!

[tawdry wyvern]

To be fair, emps created some legions, that a blind idiot could foresee, that they would defect. Especially with the world eaters, they were just the khornates cosplaying loyal Marines

[open marsh]

Gue'Vesa haven't gotten rules updates since 6e

[open marsh]

The World Eaters weren't like that until they got the Butcher's Nails