40k-lore-chat

[dim totem]

I can't speak French anymore unless it's with a ridiculous accent

[weak fern]

Boonk german empore with swedish empire, funny

[peak hamlet]

something "the germans will attack our whine?"

[cursive hull]

The only french I know is maybe a couple of Lyrics from Verdun! On ne passe pas

And only a few

And only because I listen to it while playing French tanks in WT

[weak fern]

👆

Gandalf was french

[dim totem]

Yes that was it hobo

[weak fern]

He say to the german Balrog "You shall not pass"

But after

[dim totem]

BTW carro

[weak fern]

Rommel win the Tour de France

[dim totem]

I recently got an at rifle in enlisted

So far only weak thunks achieved on armor

But it annihilates infantry

How does this work

[weak fern]

What was dat rifle

[cursive hull]

The AT Rifle is... Well.

[dim totem]

Hmmm the first at rifle you get in battle for moscow

[cursive hull]

Its hard to use. It will obliterate infantry, yeah, but, basically.

[cursive hull]

I should ask, although it doesn't matter, German or Russian?

[dim totem]

I thought I'd position myself at a straight angle in front of a Russian tank

Two non pens before I got machinegunned

[cursive hull]

Yeah, don't do that.

T-60's and T-26's and so on are too touch to pen from the front.

[dim totem]

It was a first try so I was willing too die

And I thought hey shooting at it straight is better than at an angle

[cursive hull]

Always attack from the rear or the side. Preferably the side for more flat angles.

[dim totem]

Ahhh, thought so

But still

[weak fern]

I hate to play german in early ww2 with german try to get off a T60...

Urgh

[dim totem]

Will it be a crap shoot if I shoot from the side?

[cursive hull]

But yes, that's the thing. Those Ruskie tanks are tough from the front.

Also

Depends.

Remember, your firing solids out of that AT rifle. The bullet won't explode.

You gotta aim for the crew

[dim totem]

Hmm

[cursive hull]

Try to incapacitate the driver first, then the gunner, and keep shooting the tank's crew till it dies.

[dim totem]

Oki

I don't see how I'm going to successfully flank with just 4 guys rn but ok

[cursive hull]

The advantage of the AT rifle is that you can certainly do damage from further away than with bombs, but bombs are more expediant.

Oh and

[weak fern]

I alway shot in the turret

[cursive hull]

The trick is to get in close, which sounds counter intuitive.

[dim totem]

And the moment the atman gets shot its all for nothing

[cursive hull]

The russian tanks are practically blind from most angles, so sneaking around them is an option.

[dim totem]

Yeah but

Infantry

[cursive hull]

I know

[weak fern]

Or throw an AT grenade

[cursive hull]

It sucks.

[weak fern]

And pray

[dim totem]

And like I said

One at gunner

He'll die so easily

Maybe it's just unbalanced rn?

[cursive hull]

The thing you gotta learn is that your not going to kill a well placed tank with the AT rifle.

Its those who make the mistake of sticking around in one spot for too long, or pushing into your own guys who you can punish.

But yeah

Armor pen and post pen damage is borked rn

So it'll get better with time.

For the record, the AT launchers in the other campaigns are also completely borked too.

[dim totem]

I guess

It just seems too situational to be useful

[cursive hull]

Its one of those units you unlock to slap into another squad just to take along.

[dim totem]

I did put an at guy in my rifle squad so that might yield better results

Yh

[cursive hull]

My rifle squad in the Moscow campaign is mostly rifles, with a single radio operator, AT rifleman, and a Machine gunner.

It works out since my rifles can then do anything I need them to when it comes to pushing or holding.

The one thing they can't do is build crap because no engi but I don't need my rifles for that.

Although, if you want a tip?

[dim totem]

I put an engi in my assault squad

So good

Sure

[cursive hull]

Give your AT dude a grenade pouch, give him as many AT grenades as he can carry.

That way, even if the AT rifle doesn't work out, he can still just toss a bomb.

(Also yeah, I also put an engineer in my assault squad too. its a good idea.)

(Although, I always have a full engineer squad as a back up for when I absolutely must put down a reinforcement point.)

[dim totem]

Yus, I did!

People don't usually expect you having two grenades either

My rifle squad leader has two and it always catches people off guard

[cursive hull]

Yeah. Always good to take a smoke and a grenade along on your primary dude, and then throw in a guy with two frags on him.

Only guy who should ever take ammo pouches in MG's and a few assaulters.

[dim totem]

I feel like I want 1mmo for my snipers

I usually just kinda run out and go die

[cursive hull]

Don't use snipers. Good for spotting, but since the game doesn't reward you for it... Well...

But that's enough of this in lore, lol.

[dim totem]

I do hope we can respecc squads soon

[final spruce]

@storm jungle I need the Dan abnett comment about how 40k is a parody of the terrible regimes of history, do you have it ?

[cerulean wagon]

"They were all essentially satirical responses to the Thatcherite government and what life was like back then. So there is a huge element of knowing satire and commentary within them and in things like Judge Dredd that is sort of on the nose. It's obvious that it's a sort of a satirical take on the fascist police state, I suppose. In Warhammer, I think it's more deeply hidden because it's also a game and people get lost in the sheer fun of playing it, but I think it always comes back to that."

[cerulean wagon]

got it

[final spruce]

That got the screencap aswell ?

I need to shut up some nazis and only "solid" evidence will do it

[cerulean wagon]

I can do you one better

https://www.cbr.com/interview-warhammer-40k-darktide-dan-abnett-anders-de-geer/

heres the article

[final spruce]

Ty

[dim totem]

Noob question

Who is de geers

pls no hurt if it's stupid

[cerulean wagon]

Director for Vermintide

[dim totem]

Ahh

[coarse mirage]

He's de geers of the operation

[cerulean wagon]

booooo]

[tawdry wyvern]

That was an interesting read, thanks for sharing the link

[cerulean wagon]

np

[crisp heath]

Yeah it's gonna be interesting there should be more life in Darktide than in Vermintide, I wonder how the game will display that

[cerulean wagon]

yii

should be good

[dim totem]

fine have your gears upvote

[open marsh]

There should be an Astartes chapter called the Cogs of Battle

[primal tide]

The sprockets of fightytime

[odd tulip]

God, eldar are such pricks

From Dark Imperium: Godblight

[crisp heath]

"you're so dumb lol gottem"

[atomic pelican]

owned

[storm jungle]

[atomic pelican]

[peak hamlet]

I like how active u got here over the past few days 💖

[odd tulip]

Who, me?

[peak hamlet]

Yee

Like posting ur minis and all

[odd tulip]

I have a desk again, so I finally have a place to work on my 40k stuff. Guess you could say it re-lit my spark for the setting.

For context, I spent about 3 months moving to a new house

[peak hamlet]

Ohh nice to hear :)

[rotund siren]

fun

[barren tapir]

Indeed

[crisp heath]

They're not eldar if they're not talking about their innate superiority while also hinting about how grim and dark their fate is oh woe is them

Kinda makes sense since they supposedly feel emotions better than other sentient races ( which explains why they're always haughty, arrogant pricks ) but ehh

Space elves bad

[odd tulip]

There's a part earlier in the book where Natase (the eldar in question) has to sheepishly admit that Guilliman is better than he is. I get immense satisfaction from it

[crisp heath]

Haha

That's really just how they're hardwired in the end.

Imagine having to force themselves to an aspect just so they don't fall prey to She Who Thirsts.

They're basically feast on emotional crack, and the superiority complex tends to show that when they have to physically force themselves to calm and slow down.

[storm jungle]

p a i n

[open marsh]

Hey. He actually voiced his disdain directly instead of being a subversive hostile prick. That's an improvement

[odd tulip]

Well he has spent the last 100 or so years hanging out with humans, so maybe he's picked up a thing or two.

[open marsh]

Me and you. We can be friends

[odd tulip]

I'm told that friendship is magic, and magic is heresy.

[open marsh]

Big E was friends with Malcador. Are you calling Big E a heretic?

[odd tulip]

Well, he didn't believe in his own divinity, so... yes?

[open marsh]

[gaunt vector]

the eldar language is just gothic but said in the most condescending way possible. change my mind

[potent swift]

I may be confusing fanon but isn't the written Eldar language super convoluted? Like, even the material it's written on can change the meaning of words and such?

[crisp heath]

depends on who's writing

CS Goto kinda butchered the Eldar language stuff iirc

so not sure how it stands now

[primal tide]

its just gothic but in yoda speak sentence structure

its why theyre hard to understand

[storm jungle]

Yeah this

[atomic pelican]

didnt some smoothie(thorpe) say that eldar didnt have articles or something

then wrote articles in still

[storm jungle]

Articles?

[primal tide]

hahaha

[atomic pelican]

Like "The"

Connecting words and such

[storm jungle]

OH

[primal tide]

like, how you gonna call humans monkeys when having no articles means you sound like a caveman

good writing

[storm jungle]

Tbh mon'keigh isnt even exclusively for humans

its just that the writers have taken to using it in that manner lol

[primal tide]

classic

this is new to me

[potent swift]

I mean, depending on how you look at it, cavemen are an ancient race like the Eldar sooo...

[primal tide]

craftworlders are just cavemen with flying caves

and dark eldar live in a extradimensional cave

[rotund siren]

Hey, don't insult the Russians for not having articles!

err, Eldar

[potent swift]

Dark Eldar are so backwards instead of inventing fire they just steal more suns

[open marsh]

CS Goto doesn't count. For anything.

[crisp heath]

exactly

but "canon is canon"

multilaser land raider 👁️

[open marsh]

Except when the other writers have made sure to retcon CS Goto's "lore"

[crisp heath]

thankfully

Emperor bless them

[potent swift]

When everything is canon than nothing is, pick and choose as you please

[open marsh]

Even tho that included the one thing I liked from Goto. in Tempest, Goto said the Imperial Guard won the battle of Lorn V and successful secured the Titan

[crisp heath]

That's why my canon is that TTS is the true canon.

[open marsh]

FFG's Only War retconned that

[crisp heath]

https://tenor.com/view/dorn-rogal-tts-texttospeech-draigo-gif-21363270

[open marsh]

To an extent. Some people take it too far....

[storm jungle]

Its just a mcguffin titan

there like

dime a dozen

yeet

[crisp heath]

Could be worse

You could be Dawn of War 3

[storm jungle]

AAAAAAAAAA

I'll take the Borealum over that anyday

[crisp heath]

I love Borealum

Literally devoid of any imagination

[storm jungle]

was it a temple they made in his honor?

[open marsh]

Dawn of War 3 had Lady Solaria and that made the game acceptable. She carried that whole game

[storm jungle]

I keep forgetting

[potent swift]

Gorgutz abandoning his own Waaagh after conquering an entire solar system for a pointy stick

[crisp heath]

more or less, yeah

The Space Marine ending was like

we killed everyone
Inquisitors: Why?
Blood Ravens: lol idk

[atomic pelican]

BLOOD RAEVENS

[crisp heath]

also now since we own this, new recruiting world. BOREALUM

[atomic pelican]

PREPARE TO DEEP STRIKE

[open marsh]

But....there was a Pointy stikk

[storm jungle]

I love it because its like boraele's deathbed fantasy before the bolter shell in his skull finally killed him

[crisp heath]

Gotta admit, he had some pretty good alliterations.

MULTIPLE
SIMULTANEOUS
DEFENSIVE DEEP STRIKES

[atomic pelican]

STEHL RAIN

YES

[storm jungle]

Soulstorm at least had memes

DoW3 had jack shit

[open marsh]

Lady Solaria tho

[crisp heath]

Dawn of War 3 had a good Imperial Knight(?)

[storm jungle]

shes really minor

[crisp heath]

also Taldeer was like what, a Wraithguard, right?

which was pretty based I guess

[storm jungle]

Wraithknight

because oh my god

HOW MANY TIMES

DOES SHE HAVE TO COME BACK

HER AND HER FUCKING SOULSTONE

[potent swift]

It gave us Ork rock music, Lady Solaria, and Wraith Taldeer

[atomic pelican]

Chad Taldeer

[crisp heath]

Reminder that CS Goto killed her(?) in Dawn of War 1

[storm jungle]

She also is a plot device in like 3 other games

[atomic pelican]

real farseers dont die they just regroup in the wraithknight ✊

[crisp heath]

so failing to actually kill her in canon

[atomic pelican]

Taldeer outlived goto's writing career

[crisp heath]

he just stuck her in a soulstone after long, ardous torture by Kyras

Kyras: I AM A PSYKER LORD TURNING TO CHAOS
Also him: idk I'll worship Khorne I guess lul

[open marsh]

That's another reason I liked DoW3. I get the chance to kill Taldeer myself

[potent swift]

NGL, that they had to use in-universe necromancy to bring Taldeer back is hilarious and her Wraith Knight was actually badass looking

[atomic pelican]

I do like the models in DoW3

[crisp heath]

Dawn of War 3 art models were good

[atomic pelican]

I wish I could take them and put them in a better game

like dow1

[crisp heath]

the ... filter?

[atomic pelican]

well

some of them

[crisp heath]

not so good

[atomic pelican]

Yeah

Exactly

imo I just wish they'd remaster DoW

[crisp heath]

It' s okay we have some good mods for it at least

[atomic pelican]

Simple, and everyone'd love it

[cerulean wagon]

a reminder then the orks originally had no animation for firing

bullets just came out with muzzle flash

[storm jungle]

oh god

[cerulean wagon]

[storm jungle]

they just stood still and fired

statues

[crisp heath]

In line with lore

[cerulean wagon]

Also the wraithknight gets a knee slide

[crisp heath]

"They use their magical powers to fire their bullets"

[open marsh]

I mean. Thats not out of place for Orkz

[atomic pelican]

cha cha real smooth

[storm jungle]

no like

they literally dont move

and its just muzzle flashes

[cerulean wagon]

It is cause orks love recoil and kick

they want the guns to be big and loud

they just

[open marsh]

I know what he means

[cerulean wagon]

were entirely still

[crisp heath]

ye haha we're just memeing

[storm jungle]

Yeah but like

they dont move bro

[crisp heath]

anyway
I'm out 👋 Have fun

[open marsh]

Neither did your mom

[crisp heath]

imma make some breakfast and pass out after a long night shift of work

[storm jungle]

My mom's dead

[potent swift]

If you can't fight your own gun while delivering dakka, than what's the point?

[crisp heath]

Condolences 😦

[open marsh]

I retract my joke.

Sorry for your loss

[storm jungle]

Lmao

thanks

I think

[cerulean wagon]

exactly

[storm jungle]

Im kidding though shes healthy and alive

[atomic pelican]

Yeah I know

I saw her last night

[cerulean wagon]

[storm jungle]

[cerulean wagon]

got some ground poundin goin down

[rotund siren]

some WHAT?

[open marsh]

Lady Solaria is just stomping the broken shell of Taldeer's wraith knight in the background

[frosty cobalt]

the codex astartes calls this maneuver, STEEL RAIN

[atomic pelican]

YES!

BROTHER

[rotund siren]

What have I walked in on

[atomic pelican]

I am PINNNNNEEED

[storm jungle]

AAaaaaaaAAAAA

[cerulean wagon]

Ye old Dow atleast had that

Dow 3 had uhh

that one song

the trailer

and uhhh

[frosty cobalt]

ork song best song

[storm jungle]

that trailer was better than that entire game

[cerulean wagon]

the ork trucks i guess were okay?

the ork trukks were the only orky unit

[tame fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/indrick-boreale-dance-dawn-of-war-warhammer40k-warhammer40000-danceing-gif-20659219

[cerulean wagon]

they threw the orks as ammo

[frosty cobalt]

boreale flash backs intensify

[storm jungle]

I hate that gif

[potent swift]

METAL BAWKSES

[storm jungle]

gm_atomic is like the worst place you can pick

[cerulean wagon]

lol

[open marsh]

On the plus side of DoW 3. The Orkz won again

He got his pointy stikk

[storm jungle]

I'd rather have my money back tbh

never again

[atomic pelican]

[frosty cobalt]

HUH

[potent swift]

I will never forgive DoW3 for teasing necrons and then never delivering

[frosty cobalt]

im impressed

[atomic pelican]

81+ ACHIEVEMENTS DILARA?

[open marsh]

It was worth the money to me. Again: I can kill Taldeer....with Lady Solaria. That is the best

[frosty cobalt]

full 100% ghat dang

[potent swift]

Dilara I'm surprised, of all the games to no life you picked DOW3?

[storm jungle]

I solely did it because if anyone ever tries to defend this game ill show them that i went through all this shit and effort to prove that its an unfun and boring trash of an experience

[atomic pelican]

[open marsh]

Dilara: "This game sucks. I want my money back!"

Also Dilara: gets all the achievements and plays it more than the rest of the player base combined

[cerulean wagon]

Its such a bad game like

[storm jungle]

see answer above

[potent swift]

I demand to see how many hours you put into it

[cerulean wagon]

Such a shoddy RTS

with no redeeming features

[storm jungle]

Just pain

[open marsh]

Deff. They were chasing trends. And didn't even do that very well. They wanted an eSports game like League, DOTA, or StarCraft. And managed to make it the worst parts of all of them

[cerulean wagon]

Like, none of it felt satisfying

especially the skirmish mode

[storm jungle]

the best part was them saying "it didnt meet our expectations"

yeah

no shit

[cerulean wagon]

"guys we have support coming"

[atomic pelican]

[cerulean wagon]

dont even drop the first teased dlc

and these are the people being trusted with the new age of empires

[potent swift]

"Quick, make more cosmetics! That'll fix things!"

[cerulean wagon]

WHICH THEY HAVE ADDED HERO UNITS TOO

[tame fiber]

they already did that with DoW 2, but it was at least decent

[open marsh]

Its like Mass Effect Andromeda. With the teased post-game DLC expansion to go rescue the Quarians. They just....didn't

[cerulean wagon]

DOW2 redeaming features is its tactical side

its more a tactical squad rts than a standard RTS

[storm jungle]

thats the best part tbh, like DoW 1 and 2 might be really different but at least it has its loving large portion of fans

3 was just left in the street lmao

[open marsh]

And spawning the meme of the Blood Ravens stealing everything

[tame fiber]

I expected them to drop Andromeda and the franchise, but it's back now so whatever

[cerulean wagon]

god i am dreading

AoE4

because the last gameplay trailer revealed hero units

in age of empires

named heroes

[storm jungle]

everyone wants to be total war

[cerulean wagon]

[storm jungle]

[cerulean wagon]

jean d'arc

[storm jungle]

Game D'flop

[cerulean wagon]

we can only hope

[open marsh]

Thats because EA's policy of "make everything into a slot machine" has been outlawed in several countries. So they are having to find other ways to make money. And that will require alot of kissing the fandom's ass due to the years of abuse

[tame fiber]

yeah also mainly because the MP didn't make dosh like ME3 did, while it just was a copy&paste

[open marsh]

yeah

Good ol' EA. proving that the "free market" being a objectively positive thing is nothing but bunk

[tame fiber]

oh wait Relic is on AoE4? I forgot about that, but it explains why I have zero interest in it

[cerulean wagon]

yup

[tame fiber]

at least someone competent is doing Homeworld 3 now

[potent swift]

Just looking at the differences between Dows 1, 2, & 3 I question if they really ever understood why people liked DOW

[storm jungle]

They didnt

its like a good case of Dead Rising 4

where they keep saying "the playtesters we had didnt like it!"

and deviate from what makes the game so good in the first place as much as possible

[open marsh]

translation: "its not a game the players want. Its the game the stockholders think they want and they wont listen to us."

[storm jungle]

yeah this pretty much

funny because that always kills a franchise

[open marsh]

Yep

[storm jungle]

its always either the 3rd or 4th game that does it

[open marsh]

How to be a smart investor with creative medium: give them the money. and step the hell away. You are paying them to do a certain job....let them do that job.

[primal tide]

no

want money

make money now

lot of money make now

[open marsh]

ikr?

[median sundial]

So I'll be here every now and then getting the exact levels of destruction weapons are in 40k; Imperial or not; and I'll start with the obvious choice: Bolt Weapons.

[odd sparrow]

very powerful with volcanic force

[open marsh]

Bolt Weapon destructive capability: a .50 round mixed with an RPG

[potent swift]

If your target is still identifiable after firing than either they weren't human or you messed up

[median sundial]

Human Bolt Pistol - Something akin to a hollow point BMG, very painful but you're body'll still be in one piece.

Human Bolter/Astarted Bolt Pistol - Blasts a big ass hole in you, aimed at the right spot and you can lose limbs

Astartes Bolter - Completely blows apart the human body, leaving either half of your torso intact. Some times even just a pile of limbs drenched in gore.

Heavy Bolter - Complete mistification, and thing bigger and it's just overkill.

The exact Bolter calibers divided for expect specifics.

Am I wrong?

[cursive hull]

Not... Entirely...

Depends on munitions being fired.

[median sundial]

Oh I forgot Kraken Bolts.

[atomic pelican]

It's nerf or nothing

[cursive hull]

lol

[cursive hull]

Not to mention the other kinds of munitions the Deathwatch have.

But more or less, yeah, you got it in one.

Although it also depends on the writer. I remember some books make it so even having bolts detonate too close to you pulp your organs if you aren't in power armor/a space marine.

[median sundial]

Heavy Bolts maybe.

Oh I forgot the Stalker Bolter. I assume that one tears a man in half when it penetrates his body and just reduces the victim into a pair of legs surrounded by gore when it explodes.

WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME THE GREY KNIGHTS HAD ANTI DAEMON BOLT ROUNDS?

[vapid tiger]

Stalker bolt rounds are more akin to getting shot by an anti-material rifle

Since they don't actually have explosive cores

And replace it with dense mercury

[cursive hull]

So... If I have it right, SM bolters are, what, .75 caliber?

based on what I understand, that's like getting shot with a 20mm autocannon round.

[vapid tiger]

Yes.

Well I think that sm boltguns aren't quite as powerful as 20mm autocannons but damn near close

[cursive hull]

Definitely close enough to have similar effects.

[median sundial]

Does an Anti Material still tear dudes in half?

[vapid tiger]

Simply because ".75 caliber" doesn't always mean it's just as powerful as a 20mm cannon

Both a Barrett and a Desert Eagle are .50 caliber, but have a massive difference in power

[vapid tiger]

It can

And usually will

If you hit the torso in the right spot

[cursive hull]

Course, its also so much overkill that the only time you're gonna get shot with an anti-material rifle is if you're in a vehicle and somebody puts a round through the hull.

At least, in reality.

[vapid tiger]

Yep

[median sundial]

So I was right barring the explosion because there isn't an explosive in there.

[cursive hull]

Yeah, typically solid core rounds.

[vapid tiger]

In 40k? Nothing is overkill because crazy whacko cocaine setting

[cursive hull]

Yeah.

[vapid tiger]

I mean it's not going to reduce someone to a couple of legs

[median sundial]

I say ''anything bigger is overkill'' in relative terms to infantry. Sky's the fucking limit with titans and star ships.

[cursive hull]

Eh, comes down to "If all you have is a hammer."

Like, if you get attacked and all you've got set up as a weapon team is your las cannon or a plasma cannon or something...

[median sundial]

Oh I'll touch on those other weapon types, don't you worry.

[rose thorn]

i am so close to loving alpha legion, its just that something feels one off like they are kinda just thrown in

i love their secrecy and their dragon like style, but god they dont feel completed at all

they feel completely forgotten

their only depth is 'OOooo they could still be loyal, oOOoo'

[odd tulip]

I always liked their portrayal in the fandom, where essentially every chapter has at least one alpha legionnaire in its ranks

[open marsh]

Well because some are. Yet some aren't. What people tend to forget is that the Alpha legion isn't a single unified force

The majority of the legion are traitors. But they still had loyalists in their ranks, lead by Omegon

[crisp heath]

Man if people like the alpha legion
I wonder how they'll think of the sigma legion-
/badjoke

[open marsh]

I did an analysis awhile back. Going through every piece of Alpha Legion lore released to that point

https://amp.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/dyu7kk/omegons_plan_the_third_paradox/

[storm jungle]

@rose thorn Yeah as Medic says the fandom is responsible for the most part

they make it way more complicated than it is with stupid memes when the actual conundrum isnt that complex at all

like how nobody wants to get over Alpharius being actually dead

[restive turtle]

GW could get away with him not being dead, but I think he is thus far.

[fallen marsh]

Isn't that speculation? Or it got confirmed somewhere?

[fallen marsh]

Thats because it was stupid on GW side to kill him when one of the most important things about Alpha Legion was that nobody knew what happened to him and every one is called Alpharius.

Plus whole fight was lame and out of character for him.

[storm jungle]

Good riddance either way

they're an obnoxious legion

[primal tide]

Makes me mad how annoying they are, cuz I love their aesthetic

I did laugh how dorn is essentially "you are so predictable because you try so fucking hard to be unpredictable"

A la Thor vs Loki in Ragnarok lmao

[storm jungle]

Couldn't have said it better myself

[coarse mirage]

Alpha Legion implies the existance of a Beta Legion

[cursive hull]

Never really liked the Alpha Legion.

Found them ultimately kinda boring.

[crisp heath]

Which faction in 40k could be considered an allegory for illuminati?

Uh...
Literally the Illuminati.

Probs

[primal tide]

Yeah lmao, tho it's old lore so it's slightly more questionably canon than other 40k lore

[crisp heath]

Don't remember if they're still canon but they were a thing

Back when it was... what again

The Emperor as a star child or something?

And sensei and whatever obscure stuff

[primal tide]

Yee they seek to sacrifice the sensei when the emperor finally dies, so that he can be reborn

It's kinda neat but kinda dumb

[crisp heath]

Can't be any sillier than Perpetuals and uh what's his name
Oll Person

Still really have that tbh

[odd tulip]

I'm fairly certain oll person got obliterated out of existence by horus

I don't think he's comin' back from that one

[storm jungle]

Nah that hasnt happened yet

we got like 3 books to go but thats being hinted at whats going to happen

[vapid tiger]

he's going to get dominated and plowed by horus's mace of power

[crisp heath]

yeah he's a Perpetual

I don't think Horus can obliterate him, right?

[storm jungle]

He probably can since he has become the avatar of the chaos gods

they can just write it in about how hes so powerful that he just deleted him out of existence

[primal tide]

''look see horus' eye lazers are super dooper strong now guys''

[odd tulip]

In old lore, Horus' talon literally obliterates his soul. Perpetuals can survive physical injuries, but warp-based ones are different

[crisp heath]

In old lore, he was also just a random dude 🤔

It's why I'm just
uhh

super confused is all

[storm jungle]

Its not that complicated tbh

[crisp heath]

Eh maybe
I just really hate perpetuals

[storm jungle]

Same

[crisp heath]

since they're kinda just randomly bs

[storm jungle]

the most unecessary part of HH in general

[crisp heath]

I can take Primaris, but Perpetuals are just-

yeah

[open marsh]

I like Ollanius story and being a perpetual. Since it explains a couple of things:

1. Why was a otherwise normal dude there on the vengeful spirit?

2. Why did Big E take the gloves off when he was killed?

Especially that second one

But seeing your oldest friend brutally perma-killed infront of you. Yeah I can see Big E getting pissed

[crisp heath]

I think I'm fine with it theoretically. It just feels uhh...

silly I guess, in a universe where death is rampant, to be essentially "immortal"

[odd tulip]

I can't think of anything worse than being a perpetual. What happens if someone throws a vortex grenade at you? Do you just sit in the warp forever?

What if your spaceship explodes? Have fun floating through space for the rest of time

Or you could end up as a dark eldar plaything, which is perhaps the single worst outcome

[open marsh]

Well apparently, if they are killed somewhere they cant rez, they revive somewhere they can. Mostly someplace they have already been

[odd tulip]

sounds like warp fuckery to me

[open marsh]

Tis what it is

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/lazy-writing-deadpool-that-just-lazy-writing-gif-11030401

[dim totem]

every day i am reminded of how much i dont like that movie

[storm jungle]

Alas

[odd tulip]

Didn't mind the first one, didn't like the second one

[open marsh]

Know whats fun writing tho? When a writer makes a meme canon

[dim totem]

are shovels good writing?

[open marsh]

Spoilers for Godblight:
||The outer wall of the cauldron chamber burst in. A Leman Russ battle tank bearing the personal heraldry of Colonel Odrameyer roared through the wall and straight at the Great Unclean One. Before Ku’Gath could react, the rusting cannon barrel speared the monster right through the chest, and the tank reared at the impact, shoved the daemon off its balance and carried it backwards, the treads ripping swathes of foul, rotting flesh free before they bit into the paving slabs. Ku’Gath was pinned to the wall, its fat head wobbling and gaping in a manner that would have been comical in any other circumstance.
Black filth poured over Odrameyer’s tank. It was simultaneously falling to pieces and mutating under the touch of Ku’Gath’s blood. Patches of it throbbed as plasteel transmuted to sore flesh. Puckered orifices opened below the turret and belched moans of stinking gas. The power of the warp was on it. A heavy bolter fell and hit the floor mount with a soft thump, turned soft and began to crawl away. The engine coughed black smoke and died. Streaks of rust and fleshy growths spidered over it, running up onto the colonel himself.
Justinian and his men were firing. Plaguebearers were dying. Odrameyer pulled free his hand, ripping flesh that was melding to the metal. His skin was running like wax, but he crawled doggedly on, leaving crimson streaks of blood behind.
He got to his feet, somehow, and stared into Ku’Gath’s remaining eye.
‘My, my, my, what do we have here?’ said Ku’Gath, and ichor sheeted down its chins.
‘A loyal servant of the Emperor,’ said Odrameyer. With the last of his strength, he thrust his power sword into Ku’Gath’s empty eye socket. A final burst of power from the failing generator cooked Ku’Gath’s brains.
‘Praise be,’ Odrameyer whispered, then he died.
With a sorry sigh, Ku’Gath’s soul fled back to the garden and his Grandfather’s disapproval.||

Nonspoiler summary:

[storm jungle]

I feel like thats just a coinsidence tbh

[odd tulip]

I'm on page 147, am I safe to read that?

[dim totem]

uhhh

[storm jungle]

Has a character death

so probably not

[dim totem]

im gonna say no but i dunno

[open marsh]

No its like, end of book stuff

[odd tulip]

Sick, ty

[open marsh]

jer velcome, dahlink

Just know it involves an Imperial Guardsman once again showing that the IG have the biggest set of pure brass balls of any force in the Imperium

[gaunt vector]

||Ku'Gath nodding his head like the churchill insurance dog lmao|| (don't read this Gawain)

[crisp heath]

So CS Goto-

and yeah, IG have some big balls.

Space Marines are the poster boys, and they do some crazy shit, but you have to admit that being a Guardsman is the pinnacle of (forced) bravery.

repeatedly putting yourself into situations where your soul can get eaten, you can get taken prisoner by Dark Eldar, you can get nommed on by an Ork or a Tyranid or w/e xenos fuckery exists...

youch

[open marsh]

Space Marine: sees a giant daemon. Begins to strategize a "tactical withdrawl.

Guardsman: "LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOO"

[barren tapir]

You have chosen the fucking wrong planet to invade boy

[tiny nova]

When you choose to roar instead up put your sword up

[peak hamlet]

Or smack him with his bolter

[open marsh]

POV: You are that Word Bearer

[peak hamlet]

Lore: space marines can aim so good, they can throw you across the room and blast your head off mid fly
IG books:

[atomic pelican]

Ah ah ah! Loyalist space marines only

[peak hamlet]

Oh right, my bad

[gaunt vector]

or named

[dim totem]

i like that helmet more than the standard cadian one, looks less boring

[open marsh]

i like that helmet more than the standard cadian one, looks less boring

[atomic pelican]

green my beloved

[peak hamlet]

Is there some kind of tool you can use for that? Ive seen this quite a few times now with different shit

[atomic pelican]

yee there's a generator

[peak hamlet]

😳

U got a link or something 👀

[atomic pelican]

https://makesweet.com/my/heart-locket

[peak hamlet]

Hell yeah! THX!

[storm jungle]

Go get em hobo

[peak hamlet]

I shall

[visual pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/heart-locket-gif-21792233

[peak hamlet]

😔

[rotund siren]

neeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrd

[peak hamlet]

Shut up ur a nerd too 😩

[rotund siren]

oh yeah? name 1 nerdy thing I've said

name 1 thought I have ever had

[peak hamlet]

Ur on a warhammer discord

Lmao

[open marsh]

You are on a 40k video game server's lore channel

[rotund siren]

;-;

[peak hamlet]

Epic defence attempt fail

😎

For real tho what did u expect from me 😔

[primal tide]

This isn't a Warhammer discord, it's a vaporware discord

[open marsh]

Eh. Its just Valve Time

Look at Half-Life:Alyx. We waited 13 years for that game and it was still great

[primal tide]

Is joke

[storm jungle]

It was just a tech demo

[open marsh]

You're a tech demo

[storm jungle]

[open marsh]

But yeah. All of Valves games are tech demos

[primal tide]

Everything is a tech demo

[rotund siren]

I think the only game that was only half a tech demo was TF2, and that went pretty well

for a long while too

[open marsh]

Its still going

[storm jungle]

Let the fandom patch the game up with shitty maps and workshop items and you can milk a game like tf2 forever

💰

[open marsh]

Needs a 40k crossover. Give Soldier a Cadian-style helmet. Pyro gets a Krieg gas mask.

Would be harder to give soldier some Krieg stuff. Even tho he already has a shovel for melee

[peak hamlet]

shovel

[open marsh]

Give sniper a Vindicare mask

[peak hamlet]

😔

[open marsh]

That one mini comic of a Krieger opening the box of a newly issued shovel is extremely satisfying. Speaking as an Army veteran, rememebering the feeling of cracking open the boxes of freshly issued gear

[storm jungle]

Escape Plan > any shitty shovel

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/27/Escape_Plan.png/250px-Escape_Plan.png

[open marsh]

This is an example of a correct opinion. Everyone take notes

[storm jungle]

Look its worth it for the nades alone

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/thumb/2/25/Soldiergrenadekilltaunt.png/250px-Soldiergrenadekilltaunt.png

[open marsh]

I can accept Soldier as looking like a Cadian. Because soldier is also the basic bitch of his series

(and I am meaning this in a loving way)

[primal tide]

RIP old equalizer

[crisp heath]

Rip

Tbf cadia's got nothing on Boreallum

[tiny nova]

Cadias a hole in space where debris lives now

[vernal zinc]

imperial guard rocket launchers look like they'r ebased off the carl gustaf

[open marsh]

Unfortunately. GW seems to have forgotten that. Since Cadian regiments are still by far the most commonly used IG force in the lore

[tiny nova]

That doesn't get rid of all the armor that got produced by the forge worlds making them

[open marsh]

Like in Godblight. The Plague War is Ultramar. Far side of the galaxy from Cadia.

Do we see the Ultramar Auxilia, the IG/PDF force of Ultramar? No.

We see Cadians

[open marsh]

Im not talking about the pattern of their armor. Thats a different gripe I have. Im talking about Cadian regiments themselves

[tiny nova]

The reason why we see cadians everywhere cause gw hates guard cause recast and 3d prints suck up all their profits

[open marsh]

The Regiment that fights on Iax in Godblight is the Cadian 421 Armour Regiment.

[odd tulip]

The Auxillia is tied up in the siege of Hera

[vapid tiger]

"Cadians are everywhere" issue is just as bad as the "First founding chapters are everywhere" issue

[open marsh]

That would be okay. If the Auxillia was just Maccragge's PDF. And not the backbone military force of all of Ultramar.

[open marsh]

Im aware. That bugs me too

[odd tulip]

Also I seem to recall that that particular Cadian regiment follows frater Mathiu due to his seemingly prophetic nature, having been there when emps possessed that little girl during Plague Wars

The cadians were an offshoot of the indomitus crusade, iirc

[open marsh]

GW: "Oh the Dark Angels are fighting the Tau because the Tau tried to annex one of their recruitment worlds"

Me: "....why do they have a recruitment world on the far side of the galaxy, where the Tau are. Why isnt that a Dark Angels successor"

[tiny nova]

Cause dark angel make money and need book!

People know dark angel, and they make funny successor chapter as their homebrew thing with a few examples to follow

[open marsh]

Even then.

The best way Ive seen the lore use these scattered Cadians is with the Auric Auxillia. The Imperial Fists recruited them to replenish their losses. These mortal warriors defend / operate the Phalanx. While they are still Cadians, they atleast repaint their armor to those of the Imperial Fists, and no longer call themselves Cadians. They are the Auric Guard.

[odd tulip]

Sure, I'd agree they need a new coat of paint. Seems like Mathiu might be working on that though, what with his whole 'reeeee holy crusade' thing

[crisp heath]

Just one of those things

The silly thing is that despite cadia exploding

I'm pretty sure we'll still see plenty of cadians

[open marsh]

Im certain we will. Because we do

And it keeps happening

[crisp heath]

Tho tbf that's not really that unique of an issue to just cadians.

Even Abnett's got an issue with Tanith

And that wasn't even that obtrusive

[open marsh]

Oh there is a chaos cultist / heretic astartes invasion of the homeworld of the Ultramarine chapter master. Who do we call for mortal aid? the Ultramar Auxilia? Or some Cadians

[crisp heath]

Saves em the effort of thinking up some new paint jobs

And it's also "iconic"

Cos everyone knows Cadia

[open marsh]

You mean that ball of dust and debris floating in the cold void?

Virgin Cadians vs the Chad Ultramar Auxilia

[tiny nova]

Tanith have been thinning out, we've been getting more and more mergers

[crisp heath]

Oh yes I know

But that didn't stop plenty of massacres

[open marsh]

I wish we had artwork an Auxilia with their actual helmets. This gasmask + hood isnt the normal look. They were just in a hazmat zone

[crisp heath]

That should've wiped em but didn't really

Hinzerhaus for instance

And as it is, Abnett's already a great writer too

[tiny nova]

They had all 3 at hinzer already though

[open marsh]

It would be awesome if the Solar Auxilia was brought back, to atleast a limited extent

[tiny nova]

so verunhive and the i forgetsem that has mags also are there

[crisp heath]

Belladon

[tiny nova]

Yeah

[crisp heath]

But that's kind of my point
They keep losing X Tanith but not enough that they're all permanently wiped
And they were barely 2k as it was iirc

It's just one of those hard to believe things really

At least he's toned down on (mostly) the plot armor the officers had.

[tiny nova]

When you look at the mortality rate of the odds put against Corbec and Dorden in that one story where they stay with the wounded

[crisp heath]

rip Anarch

They took like 50% casualties at hinzerhaus iirc
And they repeatedly take losses of that number because the plot tends to hate them.

[open marsh]

Severan Dominate Scion.

[crisp heath]

Got bombed by Lugo
Got used as frontline repeatedly
It's pretty fethed

[tiny nova]

Those read as useless casualties but they've never been like "killed to a man" in most cases its like 20-30 dying in a book

I think the most tanith that have died at once was that one group that|| got locked outside of the gate and fought to the last man||

[crisp heath]

There was also that uhh
Pretty awful fight in || the space station where Meryn was a dickhead ||

[vapid tiger]

What's weird about it is that there's so many successors to choose for each first founding chapter barring space wolves and salamanders

[open marsh]

yep

[vapid tiger]

And it's explicitly stated that many successors maintain similar cultures to their parent chapter

[crisp heath]

|| the one where they lost Dorden and co iirc ||
That was also pretty bad for em

[vast frigate]

imagine not using soalr auxilia in 40k

as chadmechians

in diving suits

with bird feet

lmao losers

[open marsh]

The Dark Angels are almost all carbon copies of their "original" chapter.

Because they are still a legion. Im not meming

[crisp heath]

The worst part is that you somehow have to reason that they're following 1000 max marines, right?

So they're literally just everywhere somehow despite limited manpower
Which is... iffy

Feels a lot like the GRRM/sci fi handwave of numbers that happens when it's just supposed to feel epic

[vast frigate]

Well the wolves wipe their ass with the codex

[vapid tiger]

Like, using the Siege of Vraks as an example and thus the Dark Angels, they could've easily substituted them for the Angels of Absolution or something.

and nothing would change

[crisp heath]

throw a buncha numbers and memorable names around and kablam memorable setup

[vast frigate]

and im not even sure if they dont do that literally considering i see them ordering stacks of codices just to do so

[vapid tiger]

Exactly

It makes the galaxy feel smaller

[vast frigate]

it doesnt when you factor in how many chapters there would be but

its hard

[crisp heath]

Tho tbf I think part of that is also the difficulty the books have at establishing chronology

[vast frigate]

oh right this is a good time for me to nerdgasm on my chapter, which ill some day paint

[crisp heath]

It really makes the world(s) feel smaller when they don't establish proper timelines

Abnett's GG ( and Ravenor and eisenhorn ) paint a pretty clear like of what happens and when

But that's because it's his series

The rest just kind of
don't connect to anything if you don't look properly.

Black Library really needs properly chronology for their books

[tiny nova]

eh thats kind of the point though for 40k

In 10 years from now half of the stuff wont be proper cannon anyway

[vapid tiger]

eh

everything is canon

not everything is true

a lot of older stuff still slots in well with current 40k material

[crisp heath]

Probably
But it makes it kinda poop when they cba to write it out properly

[vast frigate]

here, i have these guys

[crisp heath]

Even the star wars books for EU had better chronology

[vast frigate]

the forge hounds

[crisp heath]

And that was
Weird

[vapid tiger]

Neat color scheme, what's their deal

[vast frigate]

Theyre chimeric geneseed

Salamanders/World Eaters

[vapid tiger]

which genelines

ah

[open marsh]

They have been trying to fix that. Like the rewrites of Dark Imperium and Plague War. With the end of the Godblight showing which books happen next.

[vapid tiger]

Ultima Founding?

[vast frigate]

Pretty much full primaris upgraded

[crisp heath]

Ye thankfully.

[vast frigate]

Theyve had a 87% chapter wipe down the tailpipe

backup stock wasnt exactly what they ordered

I never finished the logo but its a hammer with an anubis template

[vapid tiger]

For some arbitrary reason I find chimeric/traitor geneseed in homebrew chapters to be a lot more acceptable when it's either Ultima founding or 13th founding

[open marsh]

From what Ive read of the BL novels so far. Not counting the game books.

Watchers of the Throne Series -> Dawn of Fire series -> Dark Imperium Series -> Devestation of Baal -> Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work

[vast frigate]

the thing with chimeric geneseed is that

their stigma is hard

people often make bad mixes, see Ultramarines and Night Lords

that wont mix well, at all

You really have to dig into the lore to figure out what geneseeds can mix and what cant

i also have something WAY more heretekal

let me put it like this, their placeholder chapter insignia was....

their thing is totally not uploading to ai frames

[vapid tiger]

btw @vast frigate do people just use ms paint for coloring that template?

[lofty storm]

You probably could use any paint program.

Pretty straightforward.

[dim totem]

you guys have a template?

[vast frigate]

paint.net

[primal tide]

Paint net is great

[peak hamlet]

100% agree

[primal tide]

It's like an actually good go-between of classic Ms paint and Photoshop

And it's free

[peak hamlet]

Indeed

Perfect for all sorts of things

Sketching shit, cropping images, ect ect

And no long load times (im looking at you photoshop)

[native surge]

just got done watching helsreach for the first time..that ending

[crisp heath]

:sad:

[storm jungle]

🫂

[native surge]

oh hi elf

[barren tapir]

Grimaldus: did you find her?
Guard: yes... yes i found her...
😭 😭 😭

[primal tide]

Another dumb country name from 40k's terra pseudo history: AEthiopia

@storm jungle

You should compile a meme image of all the dumb country names

[storm jungle]

I cant

theres too many

[primal tide]

Lmao

The new version of "can it run crysis" is "can it load an image containing all the dumb 40k names"

[storm jungle]

an impossibility

[barren tapir]

I heard the new quantum computers were developed to try to load those images

[odd tulip]

||I have now read this part of the book. Odrameyer was an absolute beast right until the very end.||

(Spoilers for godblight, obv)

[open marsh]

Damn right

[jagged cedar]

Ngl, I've always wanted to try my hand at writing little bits and pieces for WH40K, but ehhhh, I'd be too terrified rofl

[tender igloo]

just remember, you'll never be as bad as C.S. Goto

[odd tulip]

M U L T I L A S E R S

Also can't be as bad as Ian Watson

[open marsh]

Whats bad is that Godblight ||, the scene where Guilliman speaks to the Emperor, is a semi-continuation of his depiction in Ian Watson's novels. Tho luckily changed just enough to continue to keep those horrid books non-canon||

[odd tulip]

||Oh I loved that part. Haley's depiction of the emperor is equal parts forboding and hopeful. It's like Natase said, to paraphrase; 'either he'll save us all, or doom the galaxy. Can't be sure which.'||

[vapid tiger]

||hey i like titans who flip the finger in the middle of combat||

[open marsh]

The Blood Raven index actually keeps one of his bookssemi-canon. Aleast that Angelos' Godbreaker hammer has a shard of Wailing Doom in it

[vapid tiger]

:(

[open marsh]

Tho they didnt retcon the Guard losing Lorn V

[vapid tiger]

||Speaking of Ian Watson, what's odd about him is that despite his novels being mostly hot garbage, Space Marine is still somewhat enthralling simply because it's not taking itself seriously in the slightest despite the baroque language. which is something some others could learn from||

[steel osprey]

Any reading Siege of Terra that was as disappointed as I was with Mortis?

[storm jungle]

I was tbh

Mortis felt really bland in terms of story since nothing really that important happened. I feel like half of the plotpoints could be summed up in like two pages

[steel osprey]

Thank you, at first I saw a bunch of positive reviews for it. But as time goes on, more and more people seemed to have the same opinion on it. The plot went nowhere, the characters were shoe horned in. Like you said, they could have summed it up in two pages.

I thought things would get spicy when ||Alpharius|| appeared, but that still went nowhere. A lot of panic and suspense build up with no relief.

[storm jungle]

YEAH I know right? It was weird seeing everyone like it then going "well actually that was kinda boring"

and yeah i gues they're just trying to really stretch it since we only got 3 books to go

[steel osprey]

With characters like Katsuhiro (One of the only redeeming qualities in that book is his perspective) Oll and Grammaticus you'd think they'd play on the storylines established in the first and second book of the series, no?

Alteast Katsuhiro got a bit of development, even though it was decent, it feels sort of half-arsed.

[steel osprey]

Normally gets like this when they are trying to meet a deadline

[storm jungle]

THIS too

like it just felt as if its running out of steam at this point

[steel osprey]

Yeah but they weren't short on material to use, they used the wrong sort is all. ||What about the subplot about the 2 Alpha Legion operatives that Katsuhiro was suspicious of?|| They could have easily put that into Mortis with the whole fact that ||''Alpharius''|| appears and spun off something there.

[storm jungle]

Im gonna guess they might appear in one of the last 3 books doing something redundant then get thrown away lol

[steel osprey]

I'm hoping so, if not its the War of the Beast book 5 all over again.

[cerulean wagon]

mortis was bad because its a piece of lore that had already been covered before being recovered

so the writer prob had minimal creative freedom

[steel osprey]

And they really robbed titans of their glory, humanizing them and that.

[cerulean wagon]

havent read how they handle titans but i always think of titanicus for how princeps n stuff are

I imagine a lot of the issue of siege of terra is the writers are most likely given a frame for a story and have to work backwards from there

it really doesnt work for some authors

[elfin isle]

Hi, I just finished "The Founding", and it was amazing. I browsed through the Black Library and I found the first tome of "The Victory". IS that the book right after "The Founding" or is there more in between ?

I checked, and the Saint seem to be next in line

[cerulean wagon]

glad you enjoyed it

[steel osprey]

Gaunt's Ghosts is the best fiction I've ever read, even outside of Black Library. You're reading omnibuses, which is trilogies all wrapped up into one book.
The First three books is

1. First and Only
2. Ghostmaker
3. Necropolis

The next is set of three is
4. Honour Guard
5. Guns of Tanith
6. Straight Silver

Hope this helps you identify which books you need to read

[elfin isle]

It does, thank you !

[crisp heath]

Enjoy!

GG is really solid.

It gets shaky in some areas, but Abnett's world building is just topnotch

[steel osprey]

With a series which has what, 16 books? Things are bound to get shaky at times, every diamond has an imperfection.

[crisp heath]

Mostly in some minor details really.

[vapid tiger]

it still sort of holds up simply because it's abnett and the fact that it's one author

[crisp heath]

Yup

[vapid tiger]

it's near-perfect in comparison to the likes of the horus heresy

[crisp heath]

Horus Heresy's best works...

Are all incidentally written by him too

And Abnett's an excellent horror writer

Wish he wrote more of those disturbing horror pieces

[vapid tiger]

yep

[crisp heath]

Plus the last book I read of GG

[vapid tiger]

abnett and adb's hh books are the best stuff in the hh and everything else is a gamble to read

[crisp heath]

The Anarch? Almost broke me

[steel osprey]

Absolutely

[vapid tiger]

and mostly bad

[crisp heath]

Yeah ADB's goodish too.

[steel osprey]

Horus Heresy is just a bunch of filler mostly. The first 3 books, with a few off shoots like Betrayer and Legion are fantastic. The rest is forgettable (Dont even get me started on Battle for the Abyss)

[vapid tiger]

ADB's not abnett but I'd say he's the second best author in the BL

[crisp heath]

Also super soft on Ben

His Grey Knight books have some really weird dialogue

[steel osprey]

He has some hit and miss. Abnett is on a different level.
For one, Master of Mankind was terrible and probably one of ADB's worst books.

[crisp heath]

But the settings he makes are fine.

[steel osprey]

But Betrayer is incredible.

[crisp heath]

And ofc
Sandy Mitchell's Ciaphas Cain

[steel osprey]

Okay so, the Cain books are okay books. Nothing spectacular.
They are what I would consider 'Easy Reads'. Light and entertaining, but ultimately, a bit repetitive and predictable.

[crisp heath]

Love the Cain novels much more light hearted stuff

Ye

[steel osprey]

Spot on, great books for a light hearted fun time

Nothing to write home about in terms of overarching story lines

[crisp heath]

I think overall nothing spectacular
But it's perfect light reading ( and a bit of nonsensical poking at the setting )

Which is always good

[steel osprey]

I think we're on the same wave length

[vapid tiger]

Yep

[vapid tiger]

Yeah, but I do prefer ADB over say, Guy Haley

I would've said before that Josh Reynolds is the second best BL author but now he's gone

[steel osprey]

Guy Haley has made me stop reading his books. The ONE good book from him, is Dante. That book is decent.

Graham McNeill is pretty okay, but his recent entries in HH has been lackluster to say the least. His Ultramarines trilogies are some of the best marine books in BL

ADB is the second best writer in BL I think.

[elfin isle]

Is there any good ork books you can recommand ?

[vapid tiger]

Brutal Kunnin

[steel osprey]

Sorry, I have not read any Ork focused books.

[elfin isle]

It seems like the BL have bad books as well as good ones and the website doesn't help to sort it out

[elfin isle]

Noted, thank you

[vapid tiger]

Speaking of Brutal Kunnin, Mike Brooks is shaping up to be one of the better bl authors

But time will tell on that front

[steel osprey]

Yeah, the thing about Warhammer books is that they are either terrible or fantastic. There's almost no in between. I don't think its entirely the writers, it all depends on how they manage their projects and deadlines. Sadly, MOST (not all) 40k novels are terrible on a pure story telling perspective. A lot of it is there to justify other things. i.e filler.

Then you'll hit real gems like Gaunt's Ghosts, the Ultramarines Omnibus, Xenos, Ravenor etc that can hold their own, even without the reader knowing its 40k.

I think a good book from BL needs to fulfill one criteria: Can this book be read by someone new to the universe? If the answer is no, then its not going to be a great book. The reason for this is because all readers have such varying levels of knowledge. So as an Author, you need to possess some unreal skills in story telling and world building to write these things in and make the reader feel comfortable without making it repetitive for veterans of 40k lore.

[vapid tiger]

They're pulp science fantasy novels, so of course they're mostly terrible and even a fair number of the good ones can usually be considered "meh" from a pure storytelling perspective

[elfin isle]

I agree with you, I think the trick with GG is the likeness with the WWII that allowes the reader to tap in already existing atmosphere

[vapid tiger]

Which is why I get annoyed when people start treating the horus heresy series like it's the holy grail of literature

I've had someone tell me that Horus Heresy books should be taught in schools. Their hardcore fanbase is insane

"But it has seventy-plus books !!!"

[crisp heath]

GG's also a lot more realistic and grounded.

[steel osprey]

Its not, Horus Heresy is meant to be Mythology in 40k. And 80% of it is not affecting 40k over all anymore. Plus things have changed dramatically as a result, the very fabric of reality has been amended by faith and war. They make a point about this in the most recent 40k books. They also make a point of this in the later entries in the Siege of Terra series.

Like I said earlier, you can get the whole gist about the Horus Heresy by reading at most 10 of the books. The first 3 basically sets the whole scene and sets that up for 40k whilst leaving the rest up to imagination and interpretation.

[crisp heath]

It puts you in the shoes of a grunt

And has realistic problems

Like ammunition and street fighting and urban warfare

[steel osprey]

And you can releate to the characters because theyre not 7ft Genetically engineered super warriors.

[crisp heath]

Yup

Like I love space marines and all

And I like grey knights

[steel osprey]

Mate, we're like telepathically linked, I swear

[crisp heath]

But it's impossible to sympathize with dudes who basically just

Eat pray and train 24/7

Plenty of writers can't make that interesting without seeming overly convoluted or silly

[steel osprey]

Yeah same here, they are cool, but theyre meant to be a spectacle. It makes them a bit 2 dimensional. Its a blessing and a curse

[crisp heath]

Yup.

If anything
Abnett's glimpses of space marines humanizes them better than whole books about them.

Holofurnace and his 2 space marine brothers are much more relatable when interacting with the normal guard folk

Compared to entire books about the SMs in general imo.

[steel osprey]

In the First GG book, ||they run into 1 marine and the whole scene makes them TERRIFYING.|| This is the right way to make marines feel and seem like marines

[crisp heath]

The only real flaw I have of GG is how || much plot armor Mkoll has ||

But that's fine.

[vapid tiger]

What's very strange about ADB is that he almost exclusively writes about space marines but manages to make them both more inhuman and more relatable than most other bl authors

[steel osprey]

Some other books, like Nightbringer by Graham Mcneill does a fantastic job at showing how Marines actually operate and doesnt focus solely on the Astartes.

[crisp heath]

|| Dude is just that broken anyway ||

[steel osprey]

He has a talent for that, he makes Marines believable - and that's the crux to writing good marines. Not making them relatable, but believable.

[vapid tiger]

Yeah

[steel osprey]

True, but then he tears your heart out when ||Bragg gets killed by Cuu||

[crisp heath]

|| Ikr. And Corbec ||

|| also holy fuck Banda and Ezra ||

[vapid tiger]

He makes you want to read about Talos the Night Lord who tortures people and owns slaves and considers humans chattel

[crisp heath]

|| I'm still not over Dalin either ||

[vapid tiger]

Not because Talos is relatable as much as he is written well

[crisp heath]

Also really like his portrayal of chaos not just as crazies

But also as fanatics that are almost mirror images of themselves

[steel osprey]

Its like morbid fascination - You want to know why and the thought process behind it. The second it makes sense, the marine is suddenly scary and believable.

[crisp heath]

Blood Pact is a lot more relatable than just generic jerk off

I put 100 spikes on my back durr

[steel osprey]

And yeah, I mean look at Abaddon. He has been memed into hell and back, but he's a sane warrior who doesn't bend to Chaos' will because he doesnt want to repeat the mistakes Horus made.

[vapid tiger]

Yeah, Chaos is still insane in his novels but the characters aren't just total whackos who screech about the glory of chaos

In general most of the best chaos novels and chaos antagonists in the bl tend to be like that

[steel osprey]

Yeah, they're not mindless. They have their motivations and goals, which again, ADB makes believable.

[crisp heath]

I actually like the || pacifist chaos Cultist too||

Surprisingly relatable

That in a universe of eternal war and conflicting ideologies, ||someone loses themselves and just says fuck it. ||

[steel osprey]

Abnett makes a good point in one of the books that the Blood Pact soldiers dont know what they are actually fighting for

[crisp heath]

Helps that I'm pretty soft on Rawne tbh

[steel osprey]

Theyre forced, or dont know the whole truth, which again, makes a lot of sense

Not even the Imperials know the whole truth

[crisp heath]

I'm gonna be sad if/when he bites the dust

[steel osprey]

Knowing Abnett, characters are going to die

[crisp heath]

Only fair.

[steel osprey]

Yeah, its war after all, on a scale we can't even comprehend.

[crisp heath]

They had some unreasonable plot armor like in the middle parts of the books

[steel osprey]

Ive only gotten up to book 6.

[crisp heath]

Ah
You're gonna love it.

[steel osprey]

Im late to the party with GG.

[crisp heath]

I better not spoil more.

No worries
Enjoy it!

[steel osprey]

Thank you, Im sure I will.

[crisp heath]

It's really solid.

[slim hearth]

i have no idea what u guys are talking about but its entertaining to read is that weird? 😂

[frosty cobalt]

me getting into 40k lore

(they are chatting about a book series called "Gaunts Ghosts" about a group of imperial soldiers from a doomed planet)

[slim hearth]

idk anything about 40k i just like the games rlly 😂

[frosty cobalt]

hey fair and valid

ive seen peeps with over $3000 of models painted, and they have never played a game, or those who play and know v little about the lore

[slim hearth]

ahaha 😂

its hard to tell story in the games sadly

[slim hearth]

bu tthats a heavy $$

[frosty cobalt]

yeap

hey i just spent like 450 on tau, and they suck in the current game soooooooooo

also yea the story is hard to tell in a game thats mostly kill burn maim ur opponent

[slim hearth]

hahaha and yea pretty much

i honestly wanted to play the game that was like vermintide but i feel like that game wont be fun unless u play in a group

[frosty cobalt]

if u want to get into some of the lore theres great channels out there to listen too

and ye i dont play vt (plz dont immolate me fantasy fans) so idk about that but i bet u could find folks who do and would be down to game on here

[slim hearth]

oh i dont mean vermintide i mean the 40k game that was like vermintide just dont remember the name space hulk? something like that idk

its sad darktide isnt out yet tbh

[frosty cobalt]

oh yea space hulk thats definitely better with friends

[slim hearth]

ye i thought so

game seems alright

tho

[frosty cobalt]

it is, but the single player is way outshined by the multi

also its an SM game so bleh

if there was a versus mode like l4d that be sick as helll

[slim hearth]

thats fair

[hoary moat]

How do y'all feel about Bellisarius Cawl: The Great Work? If you've read it.

Just your overall feelings

[peak hamlet]

$3000 and never played a game. That sounds like me 😅

[storm jungle]

I'd say if you like Cawl and want to see him explored more its a pretty good book

It has a simple plot but is pretty straightforward and has some fun bits I think

.

Also incase anyone wants to read the summary of the new Ghaz book:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShaskaisWarhamBits/comments/nzvjf6/interesting_bits_from_ghazghkull_thraka_prophet/

Some highlights include:

||The group moved on to the subject of pronouns. Hendriksen asked Biter why does he keep referring to Ghaz as they when Ghaz is a he. The confused Biter replied that Ghaz isn't a man. Flax reminded Hendriksen that Orks don't have reproductive organs and don't understand sex and gender. Biter objected, saying that some Orks do understand it, and he personally finds it quite funny. To prevent any further confusion, Flax ordered Biter to refer to Ghaz as a he from now on.||

||-Joining Inquisitor in the interrogation of Makari was a Deathwatch Rune Priest called Orm Hendriksen and a female psyker ogryn called Cassia. In the past, there was hostility between Cassia and Hendriksen. Now any real enmity between them has been buried by their mutual respect for each other. However, they still took snipes at each other as a habit. Cassia knew that despite Hendriksen's outward dislike toward her, he desired to help her and guide her to make the best of herself and her immense psychic potential.||

||-Ghaz then headbutted the Warp rift. To the Orks; headbutts are spiritual. Using what both Gork and Mork gifted the Orks. Using what you think with to hit something is pure Gork and Mork. In a pulse of green energy, the Warp Rift was sealed.||

[slow prawn]

||Okay, hold up a second. A Female Psyker Ogryn?!||

[gaunt vector]

||that sounds like a vortex grenade with extra steps||

[barren tapir]

||Yeah, WTH?!||

[storm jungle]

Let the mayhem begin

[barren tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-hell-yeah-destruction-chaos-gif-8718346

[storm jungle]

But yeah this entire story is... weird

that and makari constantly respawning through reincarnation, which was established before but like its so overdone

I think it happens like 4 times

[atomic pelican]

Psyker ogryn

I think someone was asking abt that a few days ago

[barren tapir]

What do you think Dilara, is a good book that deserve to be canon or to be forgotten and mocked in the future?

[final spruce]

Slender did

[storm jungle]

I'd say its fine?

But it has some pretty weird parts

its a long summary but i suggest a read

[barren tapir]

Indeed, and some people shared the few sources that state that there are no know ogryn psykers... Until now

[storm jungle]

Yeah the summary says its because of the psychic awakening caused by the rift

[atomic pelican]

Seems like the rift will be used to change alot of previous 'set in stone' stuff

Which is good

It reminds me of the necroquake

[peak hamlet]

Wait a sec female ogryns and orgy psykers exist???

[storm jungle]

according to this book at least

go take a read

[atomic pelican]

We sing for slaanesh

[peak hamlet]

Oh god ogryn not orgy

[odd tulip]

Spoiler for godblight: ||The rift is also empowering the emperor, leading many powerful people (chaos gods included) to believe that he is about to become active again||

[barren tapir]

I hope that the blanks lore get expanded and changed to something reasonable (like not having grades of power, it doesn't make any sense, since if you have a soul you can have different level of connection to the warp, but if you are soulless there can be o grade of not having a connection to the warp)

[storm jungle]

ngl tho

[barren tapir]

Too late, those are already canon now

[storm jungle]

that ork pronoun part was great

The confused Biter replied that Ghaz isn't a man. Flax reminded Hendriksen that Orks don't have reproductive organs and don't understand sex and gender. Biter objected, saying that some Orks do understand it, and he personally finds it quite funny. To prevent any further confusion, Flax ordered Biter to refer to Ghaz as a he from now on.

[peak hamlet]

Oh god 🙃

[storm jungle]

very insightful

[barren tapir]

Also extremely true

And NGL kinda pissed that it was ordered to use a wrong pronun

[storm jungle]

is Mushroom a gender

[barren tapir]

Just use it

It is a mushroom after all

[peak hamlet]

Dont question it

[barren tapir]

Yes, it is it

[storm jungle]

AAA-

[barren tapir]

It is a mushroom, so it is it

[storm jungle]

but yeah the book is pretty wack from the looks of it

also ork translators and stuff

the memes continue to grow

[cerulean wagon]

the book sounds like a fanfiction ngl

i'm not a fan

[vapid tiger]

||Yeah I heard about that, I will shit the bed and screech if the emperor gets off the throne and 40k becomes great crusade electric boogaloo, unless they handle it well||

Also I like aspects of that story but most of it just sounds meh

Brutal Kunnin superior

Like, a female ogryn psyker who can write is cool

A blood axe translator is cool

Makari reincarnating a shitload of times as a plot device does not sound cool, and Ghazghkull never even sits on him

[odd tulip]

Guy Haley is really good at writing primarchs, so I trust him with it

[vapid tiger]

i don't because it eliminates a core facet of the setting and might end up shunting core themes with it, that's end times level stuff

||But doesn't Guilliman also fear that should the Emperor become active again that it wouldn't be the Emperor he knew and be something else entirely||

||Like I'd be fine if instead of the emperor getting off the throne he just became what amounts to a 5th chaos god of order who has a legion of daemons and weirdos that's cool but him getting off the throne and running around doing things is just...boring. Not mention that the Emperor being a corpse on a throne on Earth is as foundational to the setting as space marines are||

[primal tide]

its only as much a foundation to the setting as gw decides it is

||my pet theory is that if he does become actually active in the setting, it will be to leave a part of himself on the throne while he goes into the webway portal to make his way to the city of dust||

[vapid tiger]

||still risks the "okay guys see the humans are the good guys look at the emperor crushing a demon's head in" sort of thing that happens in marketing bleeding over into 40k proper, also more importantly xenos need some love before that happens since the Emperor actually getting up would soak up a lot of attention and emphasize the problem of gw treating non-Imperial factions like they're npcs||

[primal tide]

you call that a 'problem' of the setting when in reality it is more of a 'feature' or standard operating procedure, as it were

[vapid tiger]

._.

[primal tide]

i dont think the imperium is the 'good guys' of the setting, and anyone who does is a fool

[vapid tiger]

that's not what i'm baffled at since you never implied it

[primal tide]

but that doesn't mean they aren't necessarily the protagonist of the story, either