at the end of the Devastation of ball
#40k-lore-chat
atomic pelican
Cock and Ball Devastation
atomic pelican
It's not about how hard you hit
It's about how hard you can get hit, and get reborn at a new fleet
strange depot
it's about the music you make?
storm jungle
but yeah they're still around apparently,
???.M42: The Red Scar Campaign
???.M42 - The Angel's Halo Campaign against Hive Fleet Leviathan[30b]
???.M42 - Battle on Duomos against Orks[43b]
so good on them i guess lol
open marsh
The Imperium also rebuilds more famous chapters. Like what happened with the Imperial Fists
The original Imperial Fists were 100% wiped out during the War of the Beast
storm jungle
Imperium in this case means the fanbase because models sell
also god, the War of the Beast
odd sparrow
my hc would probs be like. each big major first founding chapter with maybe a few exceptions has gone through like a dozen different iterations with no relation between them
hey it's more grimdark that oh ye the ogs died thousands of years ago the administratum just figured that we should keep it alive for PR
open marsh
Well there is relations. They are rebuilt so that noone knows they were wiped out. and rebuilt using successor chapters who best knew the original's culture / tactis and could conform to them
Tho. afaik. that has only happened once.
Like I dont see the Dark Angels getting wiped out. Because they are still a legion
Same with the Space Wolves
final spruce
Same for the Cadians
open marsh
Ultramarines probably have. tbh. Tho so many of their successors are just "Ultramarines in different colored armour" it wouldnt be hard to rebuild them
open marsh
Same for the Cadians
Basically
New idea: Cadia is a warp entity. When it was destroyed, it somehow caused a time warping effect that retroactively turned all IG and IA units into Cadians
storm jungle
final spruce
Good we need more cadians to replace the losses
open marsh
Good we need more cadians to replace the losses
Replace with a real regiment. Like Death Korps. 
cursive hull
I do kinda sorta wish the Cadians had more identity.
odd sparrow
🍆
atomic pelican
They do have some of the best IG characters imo
Pask is Good
That reminds me actually
open marsh
like woad warriors
Acceptable
atomic pelican
@final spruce Are Pask/Creed regiment locked in TT?
cursive hull
I mean more... Cultural identity.
Like, the Ultramarines are generic Space Marines, but they have identity.
The Cadians are just "Soldiers who had to grow up in bunkers and learn to reassemble a lasgun blind folded before they could walk or they die." or whatever.
odd sparrow
ye cadians dont have that much of a unique cultural gimmick like most of them do
atomic pelican
I think they're most meant to be the rounded/less particular one
I actually prefer them for that reason
Their entire identity isn't centered around a gimmick
odd sparrow
Ye they are, but to me that does make them feel a lil more boring
I like the gimmicks
final spruce
<@!202451712252968960> Are Pask/Creed regiment locked in TT?
Cadians only yeah
odd sparrow
pretty good at everything isn't v engaging for me
atomic pelican
Tbh I wish faction locks weren't a thing in TT
final spruce
Hey, Guard is 8th
atomic pelican
Literally every named HQ in tau for example are regiment locked I believe 
cursive hull
I mean, I'd also take a rounded regiment, but I just feel like they could do something a bit more interesting to be that way.
final spruce
Since 9th is all about Cadians stealing from other regiments
I wouldn't be surprised if we ahd something akin to deathwatch where you can have a squad with a regiment specific trait etc
open marsh
A good example is the Elysian Drop Troops and Harkoni Warhawks. On the surface, the are the same. Jump troops. But when you look at them, you can instantly tell them apart
cursive hull
Aren't one of them based on the screaming Eagles?
open marsh
Yeh, the Warhawks
cerulean wagon
ye they have a few
open marsh
Which one of these is a Cadian? The answer could save your life :u
grand minnow
Green
grand minnow
Fuk
primal tide
What's the problem?
vast frigate
Thats actually a pretty good song
cerulean wagon
They do have some of the best IG characters imo
And ye they got some decent characters, mostly just through sheer quantity. Kinda helps that they are just humans, so its easy to write decent characters
and dont ask that chapin he'll meltdown again
atomic pelican
Yeeep
vast frigate
Fun fact about the Harakoni Warhawks. Their initiation ritual is uh;, youre taken to sub-orbital height and told to ride a dragon down to the ground.
primal tide
and dont ask that chapin he'll meltdown again
hehehe
cursive hull
Do you actually ride a Dragon?
atomic pelican
Beyond my favorite factions, my faction preferences tend to be pretty shallow
Lov green
lov cadia
open marsh
Do you actually ride a Dragon?
cerulean wagon
Cadias decent, prefer valhallans mostly because of the cain books
vast frigate
Do you actually ride a Dragon?
they float on the gas clouds surrounding the surface, so you have to hit one in the back and stay on or fall to your death
or... if youre lucky the jumpmaster follows youi
cursive hull
lol
cursive hull
But yeah. I think part of the issue is just that the Cadians don't really...
I dunno. They could definitely have something a bit more interesting to them and yet remain the generic IG regiment.
Its hard to describe.
storm jungle
Yeah they are forced to be bland
atomic pelican
I suppose their 'gimmick' is being probably the most prepared IG regiment to fight chaos
open marsh
Why does this remind me of early TF2 concept art? Or the comics art
vast frigate
Why does this remind me of early TF2 concept art? Or the comics art
its the flat color style
cursive hull
Lewd
cerulean wagon
lmao
storm jungle
Why does this remind me of early TF2 concept art? Or the comics art
Flat color as said and the 80's look they have
open marsh
Flat color as said and the 80's look they have
Fair
open marsh
https://www.teamfortress.com/images/posts/_01_28_09/scout_4.jpg
He angy
cerulean wagon
In which case their gimmick is being "veterans"
well trained and prepared with few morale issues
storm jungle
Yeee
open marsh
Catachans? By the book? Are ye mad?
atomic pelican
Also they're the Artillery Regiment, no?
open marsh
The Catachans?!
atomic pelican
Talking abt cadians
cerulean wagon
uhhh
open marsh
Oh Cadians are the bare basic bitch regiment
storm jungle
lmao okay
atomic pelican
I know in TT they are centered around artillery iirc
cursive hull
Shrug
Favorite IG regiments is the Steel Legion, I think, with Catachans and Kriegers tied for second?
atomic pelican
So I figured that had some precedent in lore
storm jungle
yeah Catachan's gimmick is just incredibly meh
cerulean wagon
artillery is just a guard thing in general, think its mostly krieg/valhalla that have an abundance of it
open marsh
*Shrug*
Favorite IG regiments is the Steel Legion, I think, with Catachans and ...
You have fine tastes
cursive hull
If only because at least the Steel Legion fights in a way I understand on a deep level, lol.
storm jungle
also TTS turning Sly Marborillo into a meme doesnt help either
cerulean wagon
but cadia basically has a regimebt ig every type
open marsh
If only because at least the Steel Legion fights in a way I understand on a deep...
I served in the U.S. Army in an armour regiment. So I identify hard with the Steel Legion
cursive hull
...Actually, I wonder if there is an IG regiment that fights like the Soviets did. Deep battle.
storm jungle
Valhallans?
vast frigate
Definitely valhallans
open marsh
Valhallans
storm jungle
their entire meme is being forced to do rush tactics by their Enemy at the Gates commissars
its pretty stupid
open marsh
They can be summed up as "Soviets in Spess"
cursive hull
Yeah, but we don't get many examples of it in Cain's books.
Deep battle is kinda the opposite as bum rush human wave.
storm jungle
Yeah thats the case of the codex hamming it up
in the books they're shown as pretty competent and strategic
cursive hull
I think the best example of Deep Battle we ever get is the Orks on Armageddon led by ghazghkull thraka
Break the line in one place, then jam as many elements through that hole as physically possible as quickly as possible, wreaking havoc and breaking shit as you go.
cerulean wagon
...Actually, I wonder if there is an IG regiment that fights like the Soviets di...
valhallans, although its regimebt dependant
open marsh
Break the line in one place, then jam as many elements through that hole as phys...
lewd
cursive hull
open marsh
cerulean wagon
each regiment tends to take some notee from their tradition but not exclusivley
final spruce
Cadians are the "Hold the line" soldiers
open marsh
Krieg are "we will level your entire civilization to the ground, ya feckin traitor"
barren tapir
Cadians are the starship troopers of WH40K, or so say 1d4chan, and i think it is a reliable source
open marsh
its not far wrong
cursive hull
I mean, I was going to say that but its kinda funny to say.
barren tapir
They also say that elysians are french in speees
open marsh
1d4chan has good lore if you can mentally seperate it from the memes
barren tapir
With their famas
storm jungle
Krieg are "we will level your entire civilization to the ground, ya feckin trait...
oh god why did you remind me of their stupid hive shelling story
what a waste of time and resources that was
cursive hull
Because the Starship Troopers are actually called the mobile infantry
Which is hilarious when you consider the Cadians spend most of their time in a trench
open marsh
Its amazing
storm jungle
Its really not
barren tapir
Cadians weren't really into trenches
strange depot
well your main issue is the erosion of the soul by coming into contact with channers in general
open marsh
They were making a point and they leveled it
cursive hull
Cadians weren't really into trenches
You get what I mean
cursive hull
They fight defensively and then counter attack, but try to stay flexible.
open marsh
What point?
"If you turn traitor, you will be given no mercy."
barren tapir
You get what I mean
Maybe... They were more like the UNSC army tbf
storm jungle
"If you turn traitor, you will be given no mercy."
Imperium faces rebellion on a daily basis, that wouldnt put anyone in that sector in line
but yeah point proven i guess
open marsh
Imperium faces rebellion on a daily basis, that wouldnt put anyone in that secto...
Yeah but the Death Korp had to make sure that others knew how they handle the situation
i.e.: utter destruction
storm jungle
Even after everyone was dead?
open marsh
YEP
barren tapir
Remember that symbolism has also an importance in the imperium
storm jungle
Literally any other regiment could have done a better clean sweep job
barren tapir
That hive levelling waste of ordance was just for that
storm jungle
looks at Vraks
cursive hull
Anyway. I feel like the Kriegers aren't really about that.
They're the ones big into trench lines and besieging a target. They're ww1's grinding attrition based warfare made into an entity.
The zeal and brain washing is just a bonus to their main gimmick.
barren tapir
Literally any other regiment could have done a better clean sweep job
Even the DKoK could have done that, but that wasn't really the point they wanted to make
storm jungle
Again, it was a pretty stupid way of going about it imo
then again that entire excerpt was just grimderp so beats me
barren tapir
Remember that one of the consequences of do something bad for the imperium is to erase your "history"
storm jungle
They didnt erase anything though
barren tapir
Again, it was a pretty stupid way of going about it imo
It all depend on what you want to accomplish
storm jungle
it was just one hive city
barren tapir
Mine was an example of what the imprium do for "punishing" traitors
Like removing your standard from the imperial palace, erasing all the reports that mention you etc etc
cerulean wagon
Because the Starship Troopers are actually called the *mobile infantry*
Which i...
think the comparison comes from the amount of mechanized they have
barren tapir
That was a way to erase that city
storm jungle
open marsh
Its not the only time stuff like this has happened. The Iron Warriors once wiped out a company of Black Consuls who were defending a Hive City....by leveling the entire Hive City
barren tapir
Look, i agree that from our POV it was a waste and a dumb thing to do, but in universe POV it had its reasons, and were quite good once you get into the imperium way of thinking
storm jungle
Its not the only time stuff like this has happened. The Iron Warriors once wiped...
Theres a difference between wanting to wipe out a company of enemy marines and just shelling a hive city even after everyone in it is dead to send a "message" literally nobody will remember after like 2 decades
cursive hull
Reminds me of the Feudal Japanese and their extreme punishments.
open marsh
Theres a difference between wanting to wipe out a company of enemy marines and j...
Make it makes more sense to me because Im American, and I could totally see us doing that
storm jungle
Of course of course
barren tapir
Theres a difference between wanting to wipe out a company of enemy marines and j...
It hardly will be forgotten in so short time though, especially by the nobles, which are the people who the imperium wanted to warn
storm jungle
storm jungle
It hardly will be forgotten in so short time though, especially by the nobles, w...
....the ones lying dead in the rubble?
cursive hull
You start a fire and you get caught?
You die, your family is executed, anyone who knew you is sworn to silence or forced to commit suicide, and then your name is forbidden to be spoken, because starting fires in a place where the entire city and the castle is made of wood is considered a direct threat against everyone.
That sort of thing
barren tapir
....the ones lying dead in the rubble?
Lol, no, the ones that administered the other hives
storm jungle
open marsh
Remember that the planet of Krieg is almost a forgeworld with its levels of weapons/armour production. It makes almost all the ammo the Death Korp uses. So its not like the Munitorium was like "Well we cant give you that much ammo to waste"
barren tapir
You start a fire and you get caught?
You die, your family is executed, anyone w...
Yup, you kinda got the point perfectly
cursive hull
The Feudal Japanese took fire safety very seriously.
storm jungle
Remember that the planet of Krieg is almost a forgeworld with its levels of weap...
Then why do other stories in 40k bring up the point of supply lines being a problem if you just get infinite amounts of it though
barren tapir
Remember that the planet of Krieg is almost a forgeworld with its levels of weap...
The DKoK take their weapons from the Lucius forge world though
open marsh
Then why do other stories in 40k bring up the point of supply lines being a prob...
Because other regiments arent Death Korps
primal tide
Just goes to show one person's lore win is another person's grimderp
storm jungle
Because other regiments arent Death Korps
They why did the administratum want to pull them out of Vraks if they could get supplies forever? lol
Its just inconsistent
open marsh
They why did the administratum want to pull them out of Vraks if they could get ...
Because they wanted to deploy the Death Korp and all their supplies elsewhere
Not because they were running out
barren tapir
TBF it is the first time that i heard that krieg produce so much... And it doesn't bode well with the special position of quartermaster in the DKoK... Which i imagine you know what they do, right Nuclear?
open marsh
How do you think they afforded that 4 day long artillery barrige using 70,000 artillery cannons?
storm jungle
By the writer writing random numbers on the codex and thinking it sounds extreme enough?
open marsh
The Death Korp just has that many resources for itself
barren tapir
How do you think they afforded that 4 day long artillery barrige using 70,000 ar...
Being bad at counting i imagine... Otherwise using stockpiles
storm jungle
Ehhh
cursive hull
Or exaggeration?
storm jungle
yeah that too lol
cursive hull
If the Krieg are ww1 esque... A lot of battles in ww1 ended up with skewed statistics thanks to exaggeration from the time.
primal tide
"they used one turbojillion bullets! The lore experts will love this excerpt!"
barren tapir
The Death Korp just has that many resources for itself
I disagree, unless you have something that prove that i will still think that DKoK are instead under equipped
cerulean wagon
its literaly written into lore that Kriegers were seen as a detriment at vraks and extended the length of the siege through their incompetence
barren tapir
I repeat, their quartermasters have a special role because they don't have a lot of equipment
cerulean wagon
And thats why they tried to issue a withdrawl for kriegers
cursive hull
I'm more under the idea that the DKoK are just better at rationing out what they have because they have to be.
You have to use what you have carefully if your plan is entirely based around attrition.
open marsh
I disagree, unless you have something that prove that i will still think that DK...
Afformentioned shelling a hive city constantly for years, and the breaking the Vraks defensive line with 70,000 cannons in a 4 day long barriage. For starters
primal tide
40k numbers are fake tho
primal tide
So you can't use them to prove anything
storm jungle
the entire point of that story is its over the top and nobody won in the end
barren tapir
Afformentioned shelling a hive city constantly for years, and the breaking the V...
Which both can be explained with the authors having no clue on what they were talking about...
cerulean wagon
I'm more under the idea that the DKoK are just better at rationing out what they...
Thats how they used to be yeah, they haven't functioned like that in lore for a hot minute now tho
open marsh
The Death Korp have never suffered supply shortages. Their only issues on Vraks was the Munitorum wanted to use them elsewhere. Not because they couldnt get supplies
cerulean wagon
not since like, armageddon
storm jungle
yeah basically that
cursive hull
Vraks is literally just a battle of ww1 turned up to 11.
open marsh
Which both can be explained with the authors having no clue on what they were ta...
You mean....the guys who wrote the Death Korp....dont understand the Death Korp?
primal tide
You mean....the guys who wrote the Death Korp....dont understand the Death Korp?
Next you'll say gav Thorpe understands eldar
barren tapir
The Death Korp have never suffered supply shortages. Their only issues on Vraks ...
If they have supplies in aboundance then explain to me why their quartermaster kill the dying to recover their gear
storm jungle
Next you'll say gav Thorpe understands eldar
LOL
cerulean wagon
lmao chapin
storm jungle
open marsh
Next you'll say gav Thorpe understands eldar
If they arent being deleted entirely, then they arent being understood
cursive hull
its a bit more then that carro
Well, maybe not entirely literally, but you know what I mean.
primal tide
It's official, medic is stinky
storm jungle
he is but alas
open marsh
If they have supplies in aboundance then explain to me why their quartermaster k...
Its a reason they have supplies in abundance
Recycling gear = dont have to make more gear = more resources for ammo and artillery shells
cerulean wagon
basically DKoK lore is bad and inconsistent, even by 40k standards
i miss when they used to use actual tactics
storm jungle
they live through the belief of shovel memes skelly
storm jungle
go get em boyo
cursive hull
I do wish the DKoK were better written.
storm jungle
I always roll my eyes when people recommend stories like Dead Men Walking
open marsh
I do wish the DKoK were better written.
Have you read their Imperial Armour fluff?
cursive hull
Like, I love them because of how they fight.
storm jungle
it was so funny
open marsh
Cause I get the feeling very few have actually read the fluff and just look at memes
cursive hull
Field guns be like
cerulean wagon
I do wish the DKoK were better written.
Hang on lemme get u an instance of good krieg writing
cause they exist
cursive hull
I do love that the Kriegers use genuine field guns.
The above may or may not be one.
I forget, the Kriegers have a special name for their field guns.
Typically small caliber... 75mm or so?
cerulean wagon
" The Death Korps of Krieg regiments counterattacked, unleashing timed mortar barrages that pinned the Orks down while Krieg infantry and armoured units burrowed deep into the Ork lines. Once in place the Death Korps redirected their mortar batteries, herding the Orks together. Well-supplied by Hive Tartarus' munitions factories, the Death Korps regiments fired non-stop. Disjointed and unable to act coherently, Morfang's Boyz were wiped out"
storm jungle
" The Death Korps of Krieg regiments counterattacked, unleashing timed mortar ba...
But skelly why would they be supplied by the hive munitions ;_;
cursive hull
Yeah, sounds as they should be.
cerulean wagon
actually the best exert of krieg lore
open marsh
Rememeber when Tallarn hid so many tanks underground that it launched a counter attack, after getting nuked and virus bombed, that is still the largest tank battle in Imperial history?
cursive hull
A genuine ww1 esque counter attack with artillery and hard pushes.
open marsh
storm jungle
Rememeber when Tallarn hid so many tanks underground that it launched a counter ...
I mean, so?
are large tanks battles a good thing
i dont know how army-men work
cerulean wagon
they can be, they are just a lot rarer now
storm jungle
ah i see
open marsh
i dont know how army-men work
Apparently know enough to take issue with some artillery shelling
storm jungle
cerulean wagon
ye cause the artillery shelling is straight stupid
don't need to know military stats to know what wasting your time is
storm jungle
Apparently know enough to take issue with some artillery shelling
And you dont have to be a soldier to find a stupid excerpt silly
open marsh
ye cause the artillery shelling is straight stupid
So are there still being Cadians despite their planet going pop. But here we are
40k isn't made to be super realistic
storm jungle
it is in books most of the time
at least thats what the authors ATTEMPT to do
hence the numbers issues and whatnot
It's a middle-limbo
cerulean wagon
we aren't asking for super realism, just asking that its not complete drivel
primal tide
storm jungle
lmao
open marsh
we aren't asking for super realism, just asking that its not complete drivel
Then you are in the wrong franchise. Things happen here because it's awesome. Not becausenit makes sense
cerulean wagon
shelling a city when theres no one there isnt awesome
primal tide
I'm getting 'necromunda is super big guys' flashbacks
primal tide
Oh I went there
open marsh
storm jungle
Genocide is badass
but yeah, grimderp excerpt does the job
so thats all i can ask for the most part
cerulean wagon
ye
cursive hull
I was thinking they had those... uh...
cerulean wagon
they have field cannon style basalisks
cursive hull
https://i.imgur.com/ATetMZw.mp4 Like the BF-1 field gun
I could have sworn they had something akin to it
Unless this is old lore I heard from a... Unreliable source.
I guess it might have just been the heavy mortars I was hearing described by an idiot.
cursive hull
Yeah, I know they've got those.
Yeah, guess my brain was just mixing their heavy and light artillery together, lol.
I do love those ww1 style heavy pieces
storm jungle
its good fam dont worry
cursive hull
...I'm also sad so many people give them Nebelwerfers too.
That's not what they're about, reeeee
peak hamlet
This reminds me of these awful knights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiyHHh2itYk
storm jungle
noooOOO
peak hamlet
Fucking gasmask on a knight :(
open marsh
NICE
dim totem
That's stupid
peak hamlet
I dont like it at all
dim totem
How do those ppl not fall off
cursive hull
I feel like if you want a hardpoint to fix artillery on, you can find a better vehicle than a knight
Just let the Knight do Knight stuff because its probably more effective that way.
open marsh
I feel like if you want a hardpoint to fix artillery on, you can find a better v...
Unless you are in 40k. Then thats an amazing point. ION SHIELDS
cursive hull
Not... Really?
Its obvious, its high above the trench lines, and therefore, an easy target.
You'll spend most of the time trying to see through the flaring Voidshield/whatever.
Just use an SPG smh
open marsh
I also do think yall are trying to apply too much real world logic to an IG regiment that is WWI in spess.
But at the same time there is a regiment that just run around completely naked
dim totem
See I want those
cursive hull
There's a difference between 40k's silliness and being ineffective.
Especially being ineffective... At what you specialize at
open marsh
There's a difference between 40k's silliness and being ineffective.
In 40k, such silliness is effective. Such is the way of 40k
Hence why Titans exist at all
cursive hull
Titans make sense from a certain point of view.
That thing above is like stacking a knight onto a Titan.
storm jungle
Yeah, passing off everything as "its 40k" is lazy
open marsh
Uh yeah? Titans even have landing pads on them
open marsh
Yeah, passing off everything as "its 40k" is lazy
Question then. What isnt "just lazy" in 40k?
cursive hull
Landing pads are reasonable.
open marsh
storm jungle
Question then. What *isnt* "just lazy" in 40k?
Because even the authors use a sense of realism here and there...?
If that didnt exist it'd be just rogue trader
open marsh
Realism
storm jungle
Not my point but sure?
You make it sound like I'm saying everything in 40k should be realistic
median sundial
As much realism as you can fit in the setting.
open marsh
Green fungus people who think war is a game and they just having fun. Fart to reproduce. And have bolted together scrap work as world ending mechs....just because they believe it: 100%
Someone using WWI tactics and really like using artillery: UNREALISTIC! LAZY ASDFGHJKL:
cursive hull
No?
Putting your artillery up on something high to get advantage? Realistic, good, even.
Putting it on a mobile mecha walker that will spend most of its time maneuvering and moving to avoid heavier anti-tank weapons? Bad.
Its one thing for a full sized Titan to have heavy artillery on it.
Not a Knight though.
open marsh
Putting your artillery up on something high to get advantage? Realistic, good, e...
Hence why that is homebrew. Amazing homebrew
cursive hull
Its stupid
primal tide
Little known fact: robots do not in fact breathe, so gas masks have little effect on them
open marsh
Its *stupid*
Yes. and thats why its amazing
cursive hull
I hope you like firing that cannon and hitting nothing
storm jungle
open marsh
primal tide
Holds up spork
open marsh
I hope you like firing that cannon and hitting *nothing*
You mean like on the Siege Titan?
Its got a big artillery cannon on its back
cursive hull
You're not getting the point.
Siege Titan? Heavy unit, won't do much moving because it doesn't have to.
open marsh
A knight wont move much if its loadout is very heavy.
cursive hull
Knight? Its a light Titan, hardly able to be considered a Titan, only by virtue of its resemblance.
It'll get smashed if it stands still in the open.
open marsh
There are Siege Knights
cursive hull
It'd be like treating a Panzer II C with a field gun strapped on like a Tiger II H.
It just doesn't work that way?
open marsh
gaunt vector
Its *stupid*
AND THEREFORE FUN
open marsh
open marsh
AND THEREFORE FUN
Thank you
gaunt vector
np
gaunt vector
It'd be like treating a Panzer II C with a field gun strapped on like a Tiger II...
Like the Marder3 or whatever it is with a Pak 40 or something on a PZ38t hull?
or the Hetzer
cursive hull
I'm just saying.
Any of those heavy Knights stand still with what may be a Titan Killer weapon around? They die.
Because that's how balance works.
gaunt vector
which is just that but stronger
cursive hull
The Marder 3 doesn't sit out in the open though?
open marsh
I'm just saying.
Any of those heavy Knights stand still with what may be a Tita...
Doesnt have to make sense. Its just fun.
cursive hull
Nor did the Hetzer
gaunt vector
https://tenor.com/view/marvel-avengers-finally-someone-who-speaks-english-captai...
I understood that reference
cursive hull
They're Tank destroyers
Not heavy vehicles.
The better comparison is the JagdTiger or Jagdpanther.
gaunt vector
The better comparison is the JagdTiger or Jagdpanther.
in 40k that would be one of those superheavy tanks, which still is not comparable to a walker
open marsh
cursive hull
Whatever, I can't be arsed.
open marsh
Realism
gaunt vector
FUN
gaunt vector
to me the shape of that helmet makes it look as if the person under the helmet has a massive beard
open marsh
heh
gaunt vector
also that is an incredible kitbash
dim totem
I forgot about those
gaunt vector
Emperor class titans?
open marsh
gaunt vector
that one will always be awesome
cursive hull
The only thing I'm going to say is.
By the logic stated here.
That Reaver should be killing that Emperor class there.
Because "fun."
storm jungle
Not so poggers indeed
dim totem
It'd be a bit sad if the church on stop got shot to bits
open marsh
Because "fun."
It can happen, yes
cursive hull
Only with about a thousand other things going on because its complex
Almost as though the setting has a sense of balance
and when that balance is violated, it becomes a mess that makes people stop caring.
open marsh
Its most standances, yeah, a reaver would get stomped, but there are conditions under which it would win
Like how a bunch of Imperial Knights killed a maniple of Titans during the defense of Ryza
gaunt vector
that was awesome
gaunt vector
lmao
cloud kindle
Knights are pretty legit though
cursive hull
I mean, said Imperial Knights were almost killed to a mech
Killed to a man doesn't really work here
But yes, they bum rushed a Chaos Titan or something and almost all died
open marsh
It was a whole manible of traitor titans, and whie many of the died, they werent "nearly wiped out to a mech", and they killed those titans
cursive hull
I swear I remember this from somewhere but hell if I can remember from where.
And I swear they took considerable damage.
...And I never said they didn't killed said titan/titans
That is possible.
But it is a suicidal maneuver at best, from memory.
They ran their engines full speed to get into the voidshields of said titans, from my faulty memory. Got in close so the Titans had trouble shooting back.
Either way.
Yes Knights can kill Titans. I never said this wasn't true.
But to bumrush a gun platform like they did was still foolhardy.
proper bison
Hellsreach?
open marsh
But to bumrush a gun platform like they did was still foolhardy.
It worked. And the only other option was retreat. Which the loyalist titans had ordered. But the Imperial Knights were having none of that noise
The loyalist Titans were planning to leave the citizens of that city to the traitors. In order to save their own war machines. While the Knights, due to their nature, care about the citizenry far more.
cursive hull
"Of the 200 Knights who charged the city, barely one quarter made it to the walls themselves."
So, yes, the Knights did play a role in saving the city, but they'd have been dead without the presence of the friendly Titans.
And also, around 50 Knights of 200?
That's almost a complete wipe.
open marsh
Still badass and still worth it
And the loyalist titans only really provided a distraction and stole the final kill
cursive hull
No.
They didn't.
According to Leutin, they played a critical role, especially the Reavers with their rocket batteries.
Both the Knights and the Titans were key to the success of the operation,.
I'm just saying.
This kind of battle is interesting, flavorful, that kind of thing. It happened all for good reasons.
Its not stupid or silly, because it makes sense in lore.
But there is such a thing as bad writing, bad design, or bad concepts as applied to 40k.
open marsh
No.
They didn't.
Yes. They did. According to the actual book
The actions of the loyalist titans
Osedax, aghast at the monumental loss of life playing out
before her, called for her allies to withdraw. When her pleas
fell upon deaf ears, Nuvas spurred her Titans into action,
shamed by the courage of her allies, hoping the might of the
Titan Legion could secure victory. Striding over the corpses of
Knight armours scattered across the plain before Endeavour,
Legio Osedax unleashed its guns upon its Traitorous kin,
drawing a measure of the foe’s ire away from the Knights
racing across the plain```
```Ordering the Titans Fated Warrior and Lost
Son forwards, the two Reavers let fly an unrelenting storm
of missiles, each warhead tipped with a unique payload. As
one Tsaue and the machine spirit of Vita Messorem roared in
challenge, turning their guns upon the advancing Reavers, the
Warlord’s volcano cannon felling Lost Son in a barrage that taxed
Vita Messorem’s reactor. Roaring in triumph, the machine spirit’s
lust to kill overcame Tsaue and it was too late that the Princeps
noticed his reactor flaring red. In the moments before his death,
Tsaue realised Legio Osedax intended a fate other than mere
death. Atop the carapace of Fated Warrior a final barrage of
missiles was unleashed, the warheads striking the shields of Vita
Messorem.Though they failed to breach the formidable barrier,
that was not their intent. Within the Titan the reactor failed, its
containment breaching as a wave of heat engulfed the Warlord.
With a final roar of hate Vita Messorem was torn apart from
within, the subsequent explosion consuming the Titans of Legio
Mortis arrayed around it. When the nova faded the surrounding
city blocks were nothing but a molten crater, seven Death’s
Heads Titans left as smoking ruins ```That's four Titans dead because their reactors were overloaded by missile fire from Reaver Titans.
dim totem
V cool
open marsh
That's four Titans dead because their reactors were overloaded by missile fire f...
As I said. They stole the final kill.
The Knight had them pinned in and were moving in to finish them. The Traitor Titans were to the point of just trying to survivr long enough for another legio to reinforce them to save them from the Knights
cursive hull
A:) Its not stealing if you're on the same side.
B:) Four Titans is hardly something to scoff at. That's an incredible blow to any force of Titans, period.
C:) This puts the Loyalist Titans and the Knights at dead even for kills, four each.
open marsh
Gladius Ignium of House Taranis, one of the few remaining
Knights to have been forged upon Mars and reconnected with
distant kin, which struck the first blow, shearing the stabilisers
of the Mors Foedus to topple the ancient Reaver that had stood
since the Dark Age of Technology. Emboldened by the sight
of the fallen Titan, Nuvas and her battlegroup quickened their
steps, piling pressure upon the Traitors as the Loyalist Knights
ran rampant through their rank```
```The breach of the walls signalled a turning point in the
battle for Endeavour. As with House Ioeden during the fall
of Conveyance Terminus Nine-Omega, the confines of the
city streets offered advantage to the Loyalist Knights, hiding
them from the wrath of the Traitors’ guns. Four Titans were
claimed by the Knights of Taranis and Zavora, the rest trapped
between their tormentors within the city and the advancing
Loyalist Titans without, unable to turn upon one without
exposing themselves to the other. In response, Tsaue ordered
his forces to close ranks, each maniple merging void shields
and isolating themselves, the Titans amongst them facing
all directions as each guarded the flanks of those closest to
them. Such a tactic blunted the efforts of House Taranis
and Zavora to assail their foes but ensured the weight of fire
unleashed upon the advancing Legio Osedax was lessened.
For Tsaue, this manoeuvre was intended to buy time for those
of House Morbidia within Endeavour to answer the calls
for aid and engage the decimated Loyalist Knights, leaving
Legio Osedax easy prey```And again, according to how its written, it was a requirement that the Loyalist Titans be there. Else the Knights wouldn't have nearly been as effective.
open marsh
As i said, the titans provided a distraction
Hit them with that wombo combo
And the Knights wouldnt have been in nearly as bad a position if they had ignored the original calls to retreat
As they lost most of their forces charging back into the city.
Had they remained in the first place, it would have been 200 Knights, as opposed to a mere 50
And even without the loyalist titan's support, the Knights were already felling Titans
Gladius Ignium of House Taranis, one of the few remaining
Knights to have been forged upon Mars and reconnected with
distant kin, which struck the first blow, shearing the stabilisers
of the Mors Foedus to topple the ancient Reaver that had stood
since the Dark Age of Technology.```Four Titans were claimed by the Knights of Taranis and Zavora
of Conveyance Terminus Nine-Omega, the confines of the
city streets offered advantage to the Loyalist Knights, hiding
them from the wrath of the Traitors’ guns.```so knights were a distraction while titans did the actual work of taking out targets
cerulean wagon
I'm just saying.
This kind of battle *is* interesting, flavorful, that kind of ...
Its nice when it happens but rare, much easier to just take a lazy out
would be nice to see more actually fleshed out engagements
open marsh
/s ofc
why /s. Vraks was great
Oh wait, forgot. "Because Death Korp and Death Korp iz dum. lol."
peak hamlet
Strategys at vraks were stupid af
open marsh
Such as?
in b4 "lol 4 day artillery bombardment dum. because I havent actually read the Imperial Armour books so I dunno why they chose that option"
peak hamlet
Like engaging in a war in the first place, they lost way more equipment and manpower than if they would have just exterminatused the planet in the first place. All of the reserve vehicles, weapons and ammunition that were stored on vraks were exhausted by the end of the war, usefull fortifications were leveled. The world had no worth to anyone after the war.
cerulean wagon
And even outside of that, the war was extended due to kriegers disobeying orders and fucking everything up
Like its not even out of setting bad, its in setting viewed as a disaster by everyone involved, with kriegers being the main issue
open marsh
Like engaging in a war in the first place, they lost way more equipment and manp...
Sure. If they had known ahead of time what it would cost, they would have just cracked the planet and been done with it
But hindsight is 20/20
peak hamlet
"Even as the shells exploded amongst the ranks of advancing guardsmen, the Death Korps, resolute and steadfast, continued to advance in parade ground order. And so, they died, scythed down by enemy fire, as they walked long into a pitiless hurricane of enemy fire"
Smort
open marsh
"Even as the shells exploded amongst the ranks of advancing guardsmen, the Death...
Welcome to 40k. I really do not see what the confusion is here
dim totem
Before that
open marsh
open marsh
Didn't we discuss this at length yesterdy
idk man. They keep getting all up about 40k not being 110% realistic. I keep explaining that its 40k, not reality, and in 40k shit happens because its awesome, not because it makes some objective concept of realism
peak hamlet
You were literally defending the siege of vraks as not stupid
And now you admit it is?
peak hamlet
Never said its realistic, just stated its stupid
open marsh
stupid if you try to apply it to reality
but it makes sense in the bounds of 40k. Also its awesome
peak hamlet
It sure is awesome but like.. even in 40k its stupid to send platoon after platoon into certain death after all pervious attempts failed.
Like how about trying something different
open marsh
It sure is awesome but like.. even in 40k its stupid to send platoon after plato...
Not in 40k. not if that is the doctrine and thats how they are trained. and you have the man power to throw like that. It would take more effort to completely change your tactics
again: guardsmen who run around naked.
peak hamlet
It is stupid even in 40k
You cant just excuse every dumb decision by saying "its 40k"
open marsh
You could spend the time and effort to teach them about clothes and armour and that body armour protects them better than faith....and they probably wont like that and thus it causes a ton of problems
Or you can give them a firm slap on their naked ass and say "What ever. Just go get 'em, tiger."
peak hamlet
Yes, the naked guardsmen exist but that doesnt make throwing your troops into a meat grinder until you run out of troops less stupid
open marsh
Good thing the Death Korp have no shortage of troops
peak hamlet
Again that doesnt make it less stupid
open marsh
Makes sense if thats how they are trained and they have the man power / dont care about individual lives.
peak hamlet
Not really
open marsh
Do I need to start mentioning the void ships that are operated via punch cards and ticker tape read outs?
Or how sword fighting is still considered an effective form of combat?
I already mentioned the 50 meter tall robots with cathedrals on their backs.
peak hamlet
Again just because thing a is stupid doesnt make thing b less stupid
peak hamlet
???
Are we still talking that wasting millions of troops is stupid?
Or what are you trying to defend at this point
open marsh
No Im wondering what you consider "not stupid" in 40k.
Because so far, every single thing in 40k is "stupid" to you
peak hamlet
Well using ranged weapons for example isnt all that stupid to me but thats pretty offtopic
peak hamlet
If you obviously control the orbit you could bombard their fortifications instead of throwing your troops in them, armored assault would be much smarter than massed infantry charges, they even had space marines in later stages who could just dropped in.
Ok so im trying to tell you that the siege of vraks was stupid and you are trying to tell me it was smart because 40k in general is stupid right?
open marsh
-
The Vraks had anti-orbital cannons keeping the ships from just bombing the lines.
-
They had tried armoured charges and those were just as ineffective yet far more costly (since tanks are far more valuable to them than individual soldiers),
-
The Space Marines did not answer to the Death Korps. They did their own thing.
peak hamlet
Ok so how did they land their troops then?
open marsh
Who the Space marines or Death Korp
peak hamlet
Doesnt matter, if you cant get into orbit (which you wouldnt have to anyway if you want to bombard the planet) then landing craft cant either
open marsh
The Space Marines had drop pods, that they could deploy while the ship flew over the general area, before they could be shot down. Even then, they normally landed away from the heaviest anti-orbital defenses
While the Death Korp were stuck with far slower bulk landers that they had to deploy far away from the orbital cannons because those absolutely would be shot down
peak hamlet
Where did you read they tried armored assaults first? They pinned the enemy with artillery to dig their trenches and then proceeded to throw their troops at them
open marsh
Where did you read they tried armored assaults first? They pinned the enemy with...
Let me go get my IA book
cursive hull
You can't use "Its 40k" as an excuse for everything. Period. End of argument. In that case, Gav Thorpe is a fucking genius reborn and there are no flaws in the setting nor flaws in any of the materials surrounding it.
There are things too absurd for a setting reliant on the absurd.
cerulean wagon
ye "its 40k" isnt a good excuse for lazy writing
sometimes we actually want good content
peak hamlet
Also like "well all of 40k is stupid but this event here where they waste tons of troops is actually pretty smart"
cursive hull
It'd be like shrugging your shoulders and saying "Its fast food." because someone gave you human excrement on a plate.
cerulean wagon
open marsh
It'd be like shrugging your shoulders and saying "Its fast food." because someon...
If you dont like it, why are you here? Because apparently 40k is shit to you?
cursive hull
You completely miss the point, again.
Okay, baby steps.
Question: Are there bad moments or bad writing in 40k?
Answer truthfully.
cerulean wagon
we havent said 40k is bad, we have said specific writing within 40k is bad
cursive hull
Clarification: These moments or writing does not mean the entire setting, I'm just asking on a case by case basis.
dim totem
I'm bored at work
peak hamlet
Well i have mostly said this specific event was stupid
dim totem
But reading this is worse
open marsh
I'm bored at work
Welcome to the Darktide server. Where appearntly everyone is excited for a 40k game, yet somehow hates anything that happens in 40k. Because "its stupid"
cursive hull
Answer the question.
peak hamlet
Welcome to the Darktide server. Where appearntly everyone is excited for a 40k g...
You were the one saying all of 40k is stupid
dim totem
cerulean wagon
peak hamlet
You were the one saying all of 40k is stupid
Or well all of 40k except this one event
cursive hull
https://tenor.com/view/whichone-siliconvalley-jared-gif-5544063
Are there bad moments or bad writing in 40k?
Does it exist, even in a singular example.
open marsh
Are there bad moments or bad writing in 40k?
Erda. Her character was pretty useless. Alot of the "Perpetual" side story is tbh
cursive hull
Then you've just found the point, good sire.
Because we're here for the good moments, and groan when its bad.
open marsh
But thats a narrative issue. Not a "Hurr. everything this factions does is stupid because its not realistic"
cursive hull
Its not about realism even.
Its about obeying the laws of the setting itself.
peak hamlet
Even within the 40k universe the siege of vraks was seen as extremely stupid
open marsh
Even within the 40k universe the siege of vraks was seen as extremely stupid
As I said. Hindsight 20/20. It wasnt the tactics that failed. It was the whole mess of it. Even down to the Vindicare Assassin failing to kill his target
And the overall mission was a success. It kept the majority of that archeotech from leaving the planet in enemy hands
The usual 40k pyrric victory
peak hamlet
"But the planet and its star system were no longer of any value to the Emperor, save as a memorial to the valour of those who had fought and died there for the sake of Mankind."
cursive hull
Going back to the DKoK Knight with the artillery up top for a moment.
Lore says that stabilizers and other tech for firing on the move is relatively rare, as are auto-loaders and other modern aspects of weaponry.
Lore also states that an Imperial Knight is a very light walker compared even to a Warhound Titan, let alone anything specializing in siege warfare.
Lore then goes on to state that Imperial Knights get bodied by Titan killer tech, something you cannot rule out of a battle after Titans or heavy walkers are deployed.
Mix these things together.
An artillery piece mounted on a Knight with no real means of aiming or fire correction beyond the manual operation of the device by those atop of the vehicle is just stupid.
Its dumb. That Knight is going to stay mobile, because it has to. It may have shields, but it can't rely on those all the time. It can not, and will not, sit in the open where a Shadowsword or Titan will just blow it to dust. Which means the artillery is going to miss, because its being fired from a then unstable and mobile platform with no real guidance beyond the trajectories set by the gunners themselves, who I might add are going to be jostled about constantly by the motion of the Knight.
Its one thing if the weapon is built into the Knight, something that can be consciously aimed by the pilot. Having a scaffolding for additional infantry to desperately hold onto so they can guess work at firing a cannon at something is Fucking stupid, even by the idea of the setting. It'd be like expecting a Basilisk to fire accurately on the move, it just isn't done.
open marsh
"But the planet and its star system were no longer of any value to the Emperor, ...
Uh yeah? The planet is worthless. But the point was they didnt want an entire armoury world loading archeotech successfully succeed from the Imperium thus give the enemies of said Imperium unrestricted access to that archeotech that they could use elsewhere
Such as the TP3 gas
Or the Valdor Tank Hunters
Better it was all used up there than taken elsewhere where they could done more damage
peak hamlet
Could have just exterminatused it then. The goal was to get the stuff back so they can use it themself at one point in the future, not destroy it.
open marsh
If possible. Yes. That was the original hope
peak hamlet
But we are drifting off, the main argument that the siege of vraks is stupid still stands
peak hamlet
Going back to the DKoK Knight with the artillery up top for a moment.
Lore says...
Nobody questioned that tho right?
open marsh
But we are drifting off, the main argument that the siege of vraks is stupid sti...
Not really, but moving on
open marsh
Going back to the DKoK Knight with the artillery up top for a moment.
Lore says...
Are you still pissed about that Imperial Knight kitbash?
Like...holy shit
Really?
cursive hull
I'm more pissed at the fact that we have to somehow come to some massive consensus on a case by case basis that warhammer does in fact contain bits and pieces of lore or otherwise silliness.
I was using it as an example, not really a main complaint.
open marsh
No no, You were going into detail specifically about a homebrewed kitbash
peak hamlet
Ok im really confused rn so you are saying that both the siege of vraks and slapping mortars on knight is smart?
open marsh
The siege of vraks was a usual 40k pyrric victory.
The mortar thing is silly, but fun and awesome
cursive hull
You compared it to a siege Titan earlier.
Which isn't the case.
cerulean wagon
siege of vraks isnt usual at all
open marsh
You compared it to a siege Titan earlier.
Which isn't the case.
I was trying to show you that things which seem silly to us, make perfect sense in 40k
cursive hull
Also yes, Vraks wouldn't be such a big deal in setting if it was usual.
cerulean wagon
it was so bad its aknowledge in lore as incopetence of the highest order
peak hamlet
The siege of vraks was a usual 40k pyrric victory.
The mortar thing is silly, b...
Ok so no, neither of them was smart. Discussion over thx
cursive hull
But also, a Siege Titan isn't stupid.
open marsh
Also yes, Vraks wouldn't be such a big deal in setting if it was usual.
It is usual tho....
cerulean wagon
its not tho
cursive hull
So why isn't every Imperial battle talked about with fear and veneration?
open marsh
Have you not read novels like "Dark Imperium"? The battle on Espandor?
cursive hull
The phrase "You weren't at Vraks" definitely indicates it as somehow different from the soul crushing battles usually fought by the Imperium.
dim totem
I suggest you guys throw down irl now
cursive hull
We, an audience, see all the crazy shit that happens because those are the interesting make or break moments.
peak hamlet
There is a huge difference between a huge titan which moves slow and got a huge cannon on top and a small fast moving knight with people and mortars on top
open marsh
Like. the entirety of the Horus Heresy was a pyrric victory
Its a consistent theme in 40k
cursive hull
The Horus Heresy was also incredibly unusual. That's why it was such a big deal.
peak hamlet
I suggest you guys throw down irl now
Good idea, ill leave for now
open marsh
*The Horus Heresy was also incredibly unusual. That's why it was such a big deal...
The Horus Heresy takes up half, if not more of the entire setting by this point
open marsh
I suggest you guys throw down irl now
Fair. this is going no where
I forget I shouldnt try and argue with people who get all their info from youtube videos and wiki entries
cursive hull
Mkay.
peak hamlet
Ah yes you are so superior because you spend money on a book of wich a way better summary exists for free
dim totem
I have no stakes in this btw
peak hamlet
Dont attack us, i thought we were leaving this discussion
dim totem
Dont implicate me in the homicide
open marsh
Ah yes you are so superior because you spend money on a book of wich a way bette...
When it comes to knowing the lore? Yes. Thats exactly correct, besides that the summaries are objectively worse.
We finally agree on something
Can we move on now?
cerulean wagon
dont get involved then ET lmao, nuclears on the war path again
peak hamlet
When it comes to knowing the lore? Yes. Thats exactly correct, besides that the ...
It really isnt but ok, go ahead and buy every single book out there and search through them whenever you get into an argument. Since im 99% sure you quote everything from memory i would indeed say wikis are a more reliable source
Since they include like the text from the books
???
cursive hull
Bit too late for that
restive turtle
Wikis are okay'ish, but aren't more reliable than that.
cursive hull
The Lexicanum includes actual excerpts and citations from said books.
For free.
There is some uncited stuff that can't exactly be used for 100%, but its good enough for government work.
peak hamlet
They are more reliable than remembering something you read once
open marsh
The Lexicanum includes actual excerpts and citations from said books.
I know. I write alot of them.
restive turtle
True, but it still has the flaws of a standard Wiki with some sources having the chance of being mixed up and stuff, but at least it has citations.
open marsh
And they are as stripped down as I can make them. Missing alot of nuance. To avoid getting into big copywrite trouble
restive turtle
Yea
cerulean wagon
cool
they still cover that in lore vraks is a tragedy caused mostly by the kriegers
open marsh
True, but it still has the flaws of a standard Wiki with some sources having the...
yeah I find incorrect info frequently.
restive turtle
Kriegers never cause tragedy.
storm jungle
restive turtle
I can still eat it if you dont want to
open marsh
True, but it still has the flaws of a standard Wiki with some sources having the...
Like on the page dedicated to the Forgebreaker hammer, there was a huge thing about how the Iron Hands reclaimed it and yada yada.....and there was a cited source....and I read that cited source.....and it was for something completely unrelated. Not even involving the Iron Hands, Iron Warriors, or Forgebreaker
and that info had been on the Lexicanum for 8 years
restive turtle
I have seen it a few times, there also was a page about some gliche name like Deathbringer or something, with some people stating the page had correct info that was explained inccorectly, some things that never happened and some that did but was not actually related to the page as well as some mixing up characters.
open marsh
I remember some incorrect info I put in when I was first getting into the lore. Because I had found that info on another wiki and didnt question it. A picture of an Escher with a lasgun, and the other wiki had mistaken that for a 'Necromunda pattern" lasgun
So I put that on the page, and totally forgot about it. The error wasnt caught for 2 years
Its a reason I actually bother to get the primary sources and check them myself now
restive turtle
At least its cited so one has the possibility of checking it. I wanted to check the 40k Wiki page about the death toll of the Horus Heresy to see if it was from a Novel or Codex, but it wasn't cited.
open marsh
At least its cited so one has the possibility of checking it. I wanted to check ...
The fandom wiki is just.....oof its bad
restive turtle
It has a lot of text tho
open marsh
Lots of info....but GOOD LUCK checking if its right
storm jungle
Isnt it just straight up copy pasted
open marsh
Thats where I got that non-existent pattern of lasgun
restive turtle
to some extent
storm jungle
i remember reading the whirlwind page and the same sentence was repeated like
4 times
restive turtle
I've never edited a Wiki, the only reason I am tempted to is to add in the few places where some info of "Order of Battle" is missing. I love those.
restive turtle
o waz diz
peak hamlet
I only edit wikipedia whenever something bothers me like no image althrough there exist a few on wikimedia commons, typos, outdated info ect ect
open marsh
Edit history of the lexicanum page on lasguns
Im the biggest contributor to that page and am responsible for its current format
restive turtle
You make the Emperor proud.
peak hamlet
Im also quite active on the mordhau wiki because reasons
restive turtle
Altho he would be more proud if you made a page about Bayonets and shovels.
open marsh
You make the Emperor proud.
I got tired of the pictures and lore of lasguns being seperate
I wanted the reader (all in 1 sections) be able to see:
The name of the pattern
The image of the pattern
and the lore of the pattern
Fan fact. As much people say the Cadians have the standard wargear. Their lasguns are not the standard pattern
The Cadian's issue lasgun is the "Kantrael Pattern M36 Lasrifle"
While the most common pattern issued to the Imperial Guard around the galaxy is the "M35 M-Galaxy Short Pattern"
The M35 is far more flexable. In its standard configuration, its closer to that of a lascarbine. But its barrel, stock, and laspack can be easily swapped (and a long range optic added) to make it into a long las.
restive turtle
And Codexes
thick badge
The Elden ring news slapped so good, all I need now is some yummy Darktide drips and my life is officially complete
median sundial
I'm curious as to what all of the sniper weapons in the Imperium are.
Ok so we got Needler, Las, stubber, bigger Needler for Marines, and Bolt snipers.
The Stubber sniper is what I assume to be the equivalent to one of our modern day snipers, and is as effective as you'd expect.
And finally, the creme de la creme, the Piece de resistance: The Exitus. Crafted to perfection and loaded with the best possible bullets the Mechanicus can make; and they can only afford to make them for the most accurate shot because they're a pain in the ass to make.
Did I miss any?
open marsh
stub rifle*
There is also the las-fusil.
Which is basically a long long but with an mini-hellgun power pack
And the Absolution Sniper Rifle, which is basically a .50 BMG rifle
median sundial
And the Absolution Sniper Rifle, which is basically a .50 BMG rifle
Didn't know about Hellgun Longlas, but the Stubber Sniper is the nickname I've given to the Absolution. Just goes to show how tough a lot of shit in 40k is where 50 BMG is only good against ''lightly armored targets''.
open marsh
irl .50 BMg is only useful against lightly armoured vehicles
median sundial
I mean yeah but it still chews through normal people yeah?
open marsh
Yup
median sundial
50 BMG wouldn't even make a dent in half of the shit the Imperium and Chaos has, and don't even get me started on Xenos.
open marsh
I mean, for what its designed for. it still would
Except Astartes and Custodes power armour. Because scifi bullshit
median sundial
Case and point.
open marsh
Yeah. As seen in the Astartes short film, Astartes armour can tank was is essentially 20mm cannon rounds
median sundial
Any thing Astartes related, you might as well not even bring anything below the power level of a Plasma gun or a Melta.
open marsh
at point blank range (yes, the range at which he was firing that thing is considered point blank. since that is still too close for the round to have any drop off)
median sundial
Big scary Hulk Hogan clones.
elfin isle
@open marsh do you know how the lasgun's clips works ? Is it just a battery or something more exotic ? Are they one use only or can be recharged ?
open marsh
powerpack
and yeah, its pretty much just a really powerful, rechargeable battery
The battery can be recharged in a variety of ways. Besides hooking it to a charger, it has a small solar cell on it. So you can charge it by leaving it in solar light. Or you can put it nnear (or more dangerously) slightly inside of a camp fire
elfin isle
The battery can be recharged in a variety of ways. Besides hooking it to a charg...
Cool ! Can you use it to power vox coms ? Or flashlights ?
open marsh
If you can rig it to trickle-charge the devices
elfin isle
That's not related, but I was wondering why isn't there a single model of base lasgun, isn't the Adeptus Mechanicus in charge of all the forge world and so of the schematics used ?
open marsh
That's not related, but I was wondering why isn't there a single model of base l...
Lasguns arent just made by forgeworlds
vapid tiger
Which is basically a long long but with an mini-hellgun power pack
I thought a long-las used hotshot power packs to deliver the increased punch and that the las-fusil is basically a mini-lascannon designed as anti-personnel weapon for use by marine eliminators
Essentially a laser anti-material rifle that can fuck up tanks if the need arises
cerulean wagon
the one ingame is the m35 galaxy
dim totem
ah yes a gun
cerulean wagon
they confirmed it in an article a few months back
coarse mirage
What races in AoS can't be raised as undead?
median sundial
Greenskins maybe, going off of dialogue from Necromancers in Total Warhammer talking about how hard to work with Ork Corpses are.
odd sparrow
it's sorta a fluffy grey area
on paper everything should be raisable, some old fluff even had orcs and lizardmen included there
buuut also the vampire roster is mostly just humans so u dont wanna overcomplicate things
median sundial
Yeah that I guess.
cerulean wagon
What races in AoS can't be raised as undead?
think literaly only the water elves because they dont have souls
atomic pelican
The IDK have souls, the majority of then are just weak and kinda fail without supplement
atomic pelican
Im p sure basically anything can be raised as undead. Its just a technical limit of a miniature game
Which then translates into video games
cerulean wagon
one of the necromancers used to have an undead ork army in fluff
so yeah its just a TT limitation
median sundial
Now I assume you CAN have an undead Ork army, it's just really hard because I think Ork souls are like really fuckin cantankerous even in death.
coarse mirage
think literaly only the water elves because they dont have souls
I remember Arkhan saying that lilleath has claim on the sylvaneth
cerulean wagon
sylvaneth are wood elves
atomic pelican
That and Lileath is Gone
The IDK are pretty neat for that. Dont rlly have a living patron god
They venerate Manaan but in a "hes dead rip" kinda way
storm jungle
I assumed pretty much anyone can be undead
but its just the thing of making models for each seperate race that gets undead-ified is the real issue
storm jungle
Yeeee
atomic pelican
Humans are the majority of undead/GSC, so it makes the most sense just to do them
primal tide
i didnt see it before and it made me laugh 👍
cerulean wagon
HA
peak hamlet
HA
barren tapir
HA
prisma lark
Stayin alive! Stayin alive!
open marsh
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/298/a/c/m35_m_galaxy_short_pattern_lasgun...
Wrong pattern. That's the Kantrael M36
M35 M-Galaxy Short Pattern
vast frigate
Replace the <gun> with a <Galvanic Rifle, Mars Pattern> and we have a good start
crisp heath
BTW
In the Dan Abnet video
They were talking about progression system
In which we built up reputation with Inqusiton
open marsh
storm jungle
vapid tiger
the real question is how the game will handle melta weaponry
because they work differently in every visual medium
storm jungle
I'm just gonna place 5 bucks on focused beam
open marsh
I prefer when they are essentially energy-weapon shotguns
vernal zinc
I unironically think pert is my favourite traitor primarch
open marsh
He is absolutely my favorite traitor primarch
vernal zinc
I always thought he would have models of old as fuck tanks and planes from our era
strange depot
I think he wouldn't and would be really mad because Malcador had all that shit hidden away in his fancy villas
just imagining him bidding for stuff on Ebay and getting sniped all the time
strange depot
Big E the straight up klepto
willow hornet
"Yay" - Big E
vernal zinc
I can see pert being like “UNCLE MAL LET ME SEE THE inserts some tank from modern day PLEASE”
I think pert knows how to make them and made a primarch sized Abrams tank for himself
willow hornet
That would be pretty cool though
vernal zinc
It’s somewhere on his demon planet
strange depot
with a big recliner on the back for the good days
vernal zinc
He probably has a pinup of a female iron warrior on the side sitting on a pile of imperial fist helmets
strange depot
Pert is the Primarch most likely, after Fulgrim, to have anime girl statues
Magnus would have secret anime girl statues
vernal zinc
pert loves his tank very much
it's like a baneblade
but on roids
like primarch roids
rose thorn
hey what up with the adeptus arbites, has anything really like big happened with them or have they always just been police
final spruce
As far as I know, they were and still are the main police force yes
rose thorn
i havent heard much of them, i kinda wish they would get an update
i actually really want to make a kill team of them
final spruce
They arent minis so it severely limits those updates
rose thorn
i know there are ones back from when they were metal
final spruce
The closest you can get are the palatines troopers from necromunda
rose thorn
yea, i might use either guard or try to use neophyte rules in killteams
since they have alot of similar weapons
final spruce
Tempestus are the closest yeah
rose thorn
yea, but they dont have shotguns just hotshot volley gun
final spruce
I know the vet have those
rose thorn
tempestus cant have grenade launchers in killteams so id have 1 special special weapon gunner with a grenade launcher
oh shit apparently they also have hell guns
ok nice
rose thorn
i could also maybe get away with death watch
open marsh
oh shit apparently they also have hell guns
Yeah, Scions's primary weapons are their hellguns
rose thorn
I meant the adeptus arbites
grand minnow
Are there deep sea divers in the imperium? And are they called the adeptus adeeptus?
median sundial
I think a better name would be Adeptus Aquaticus.
cursive hull
Presumably there are divers, but they're probably few and far between.
plucky moth
imperial doom divers 
cursive hull
I'd even presume the Imperium has a few designs, haphazard though they may be, of ocean going vessels for planetary defense or trade.
I know Armageddon had something of the sort.
Even if the waters were toxic and corrosive in the extreme.
dim totem
Latching on to this, I wish you could purchase like seperate imperium symbols like aquilae and those admech skulls to attach to kitbashed vehicles
Like you could do a little diorama with a 40k tugboat
vast frigate
they should have upgrade sprues for that tbh
dim totem
And it's obviously imperium looking
I agree
I wish they had those
And you probably won't see 3rd party producers making imperial aquilas
Bc of trademark
You can get vehicle upgrade sprues but those don't include imagery I think
gusty fulcrum
Tervian Prime Hell Divers - Astra Militarum Aquatic/highpressure Deathworld Specialists
some dudes oc gaurd im assumin
Im pretty sure there is at least one official ig regiment that specializes in amphibious/aquatic based assault tactics
barren tapir
@vast frigate, you may find that interesting
gusty fulcrum
I dont know how much its shown in game but various novels particularly i think it was last chancers implies chimeras are semi amphibious vehicles
barren tapir
some dudes oc gaurd im assumin
Pretty sure it is OC, since those seems to be solar auxilia suits
gusty fulcrum
They dont float but are sealed enough to go underwater as long as the pressure isnt to great
obtuse vault
i dont know shit about chaos all i know is that these guys fuck. everything else is bad
barren tapir
Im pretty sure there is at least one official ig regiment that specializes in am...
Not really, since those are extremely niche
gusty fulcrum
Thats why i said i think there is suppose to be one
barren tapir
Like, tahanel is an ocean world, but it use huge amount of drop troops as doctrine
gusty fulcrum
Kinda one offs like how the elysians a suppose to be specialist drop troopers
barren tapir
The elysians are specialist drop troopers... But aren't the only one
Harakoni are similar
gusty fulcrum
I think these dudes are suppose to hail froma world thats bascily a buncha archipligaos interconnected
strange depot
did they get rid of the keyboard style guitar things they had?
gusty fulcrum
did they get rid of the keyboard style guitar things they had?
I think they brought them back as an equipment option
obtuse vault
from what i know they discontinued the models
but they are allowed to be used in game/they have rules to be used in game at least
fucking sad
the only cool option was assassinated
gusty fulcrum
Well i think its cuz lore wise theyre bascily the originol devices the modern sonic weapons they use are based on
barren tapir
It would be also hard for a regiment to be amphibious as the ships would be under the authority of the imperil navy... Although this would be a weak excuse since there are known episodes where the regiment have its own vehicles
strange depot
I liked how they looked more techie but anachronistic
gusty fulcrum
It would be also hard for a regiment to be amphibious as the ships would be unde...
Well therre suppose to still use alotta chimeras n shit cuz like i said before chimeras are suppose to be amphibious to a point i alost think they were suppose to also use hovercraft and airdrops to i dont think they around now from an older edition
obtuse vault
Well i think its cuz lore wise theyre bascily the originol devices the modern so...
who the fuck cares they dont look sexy and dont have guitars anymore whats the point
gusty fulcrum
No thought the guitars were the option
atomic pelican
If slaanesh marines get a separate codex like deathguard, we may see them get cooler
I hope that becomes the case
storm jungle
if they ever creatively branch out like they did with the Death Guard, I hope so
because JESUS did they get so many models
wheres my halfling gimps like the AOS slaanesh kits and scantily clad men
cowards is what GW is
obtuse vault
if they ever creatively branch out like they did with the Death Guard, I hope so
so youll answer to HER but not me?
i see you 👀
obtuse vault
If slaanesh marines get a separate codex like deathguard, we may see them get co...
also u shill i see you with ur pink name
obtuse vault
Im watching MCU with my partner AAA
storm jungle
<:LILEATH_BONK:852733664487407636>
obtuse vault
I was out!!! Aa
I MEANT U BOOSTED THE SERVER TO GET A PINK NAME
atomic pelican
The best CSM are those with their own codex(TS and DG)
U get free boosts with nitro
U can go pink too
rotund siren
obtuse vault
plucky moth
<:LILEATH_BONK:852733664487407636>
obtuse vault
<:KerSquish:852729967673344030>
/ccf06a83119a202.s.siteapi.org/img/c65a9c54686e9ab94266868dbee6b7a4288422ed.jpg){kind=link}
final spruce
Right ?
plucky moth
I've been known to do so from time to time
plucky moth
vapid tiger
i dont know shit about chaos all i know is that these guys fuck. everything else...
based
vernal zinc
vapid tiger
they should have upgrade sprues for that tbh
they should honestly have upgrade sprues for a lot of things
tau gue'vesa come to mind
obtuse vault
btw love your and onut's pfps
thank u UWU i had them commissioned a while back
vapid tiger
when emperor's children eventually get an update with a codex they should use the uh
older style of noise marines with the guitars
or else
crisp heath
I rewatched Helsreach recently and what is the point of it, that Grimaldus is uncertain of himself so he is forced into impossible odds to force him to overcome his personal weakness? Or what was Helbrecht's goal with mistreating Grimaldus and understaffing him, and for that matter was Helbrecht mistreating him in the first place?
strange depot
he needed someone to lead them and there was no other option?
Chaplins are there to lead from the front and keep people fighting
obtuse vault
<@!352079158068772865>Them some nice ears you got there. *axe gleams*
pardon me when did i say that you could address me? shoo
now then back to more pressing matters
strange depot
he didn't mistreat Grimaldus, Grimaldus felt mistreated because he didn't want to die a pointless death
atomic pelican
pardon me when did i say that you could address me? shoo
He likes to be talked down by women better than him I believe
Happens when you look like shit and smell like arizona cheese
strange depot
I'm sure you can look good and want women to talk down to you
atomic pelican
That's true
obtuse vault
final spruce
Battle between elf haters and elf lovers.
final spruce
Ah ?
obtuse vault
Battle between elf haters and elf lovers.
atomic pelican
mothman