40k-lore-chat

[barren tapir]

I was taken seriously

[jagged ember]

:)

[storm jungle]

I also died 5 times

: )

[atomic pelican]

Cats out here

Wild

[storm jungle]

@barren tapir Im sorry blank

[jagged ember]

Dilara perpetual confirmed ?

[atomic pelican]

Yall have so many good cat emotes.. omg..

[jagged ember]

https://tenor.com/view/hella-sus-among-us-imposter-impostor-digibyte-gif-19824591

[storm jungle]

[cerulean wagon]

can we put gav in the bin yet

[storm jungle]

I hope so

[visual pumice]

I don’t know where mine are from. Mobile discord is wank

[cerulean wagon]

[jagged ember]

xD

[storm jungle]

Also ngl

i need to use this emote more

[obtuse vault]

Ahh it's much quieter in here now

[visual pumice]

[open marsh]

Not if I have any say in the matter

[cerulean wagon]

blelelele

[jagged ember]

When they say Cadia stands xD

[storm jungle]

Medic your hate for eldar is as shallow as a puddle

lol

[cerulean wagon]

[storm jungle]

its either that or "uwu destroy soulstones"

[atomic pelican]

Medic is as shallow as a puddle

Its not shocking

[obtuse vault]

Thank God I can't see it 😎

[cerulean wagon]

this tbh

[visual pumice]

Stealing that

[jagged ember]

Non can match my hate on Xenos

[cerulean wagon]

lmao

[atomic pelican]

I love democracy

[jagged ember]

All of them are bligiht to the galaxy and must be purged

[obtuse vault]

It's a beautiful thing

[open marsh]

Agreed

[barren tapir]

It is incredible how a discussion about different faction can escalate in people thinking that other are racist or bad people

[storm jungle]

I mean

its a majority against like 2 people tho

lol

and their argument isnt that much beyond "hehe alien bad"

[cursive hull]

I wouldn't call it racist. Personally.

Its just played out.

[storm jungle]

Yeah this

[plucky moth]

😳

[atomic pelican]

Oh my god saar can you make a contribution that isnt theatrical devils advocate

[cerulean wagon]

of all the bits for incan to pick up on

[atomic pelican]

😳

[barren tapir]

I don't think it is the majority, also even if it was it doesn't make it right to attack others

[storm jungle]

I'm just tired and having tea while waiting for my next class to start so

[plucky moth]

look

Dilara knows I've had a busy day

[atomic pelican]

Its the best part to pickup on

[barren tapir]

Yes

[cerulean wagon]

that doesnt mean you can relax with xeno cum

[open marsh]

He finds the actually important bits nod

[jagged ember]

Ok so Eldar race are arrogant scumabs who created Slaanesh

[atomic pelican]

Scumabs

[jagged ember]

Because they were bored :l

[atomic pelican]

Typo get his ass

[cerulean wagon]

scum abbs

[storm jungle]

And humanity fucked itself over a single knife and a stupid bald person

[plucky moth]

well my partner would probably be upset about that yeah

[storm jungle]

because erebus was bored

[atomic pelican]

skooma bags

[storm jungle]

[barren tapir]

But to make a contribution i need first to find a decent discussion

[visual pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/typo-cat-kitten-type-busy-gif-5809199

[plucky moth]

unless it's my..let's not go there actually

[atomic pelican]

Precisely

[storm jungle]

GET EM

[cerulean wagon]

lmao incan

[storm jungle]

also scumabs no joke sounds like a star wars insult

im borrowing it

[atomic pelican]

Ur right

[visual pumice]

Weakness found. Exploiting

What did greedo call han

Scumab

[storm jungle]

DSFKS

[jagged ember]

When did my typo turned into a real word xD

[atomic pelican]

Now

[visual pumice]

Doolo

[storm jungle]

Since now, deal with it

[obtuse vault]

New stance: I'm putting everyone who likes the imperium on a watchlist

[jagged ember]

Not the elf :(

[atomic pelican]

post based emote

[open marsh]

How to have any sort of positive interaction here:
Have only positive comments about Eldar.

[jagged ember]

Burn the tree of something idk

[barren tapir]

Shouldn't be better a ignore list?

[storm jungle]

Its not about positive

[jagged ember]

Wood elf tree xD

[storm jungle]

you literally hate them for the dumbest reasons lmao

[plucky moth]

tfw not on Elf's watchlist

[storm jungle]

like i get not liking a faction

[cerulean wagon]

I like the imperium so i probably am

[cursive hull]

Its more about keeping your personality and hating a fictional faction separate.

[cerulean wagon]

[storm jungle]

i dont like the imperium but you dont see me ridiculing them unless someone here is actually like "wow they're good people"

[atomic pelican]

Ppl dont like you because your antieldar, they dont like you because you have the personality of a mudpuddle medic

[obtuse vault]

Friend list :3

[plucky moth]

[storm jungle]

anyway i die

[atomic pelican]

😳

[jagged ember]

:(

[visual pumice]

MACLUNKY

[open marsh]

Nani? Its a game, my guy

[cursive hull]

Its boring

[cerulean wagon]

rejected, get into your wraith construct

[plucky moth]

Dilara you can't die, I'm a day ahead of you and you're still alive rn

[open marsh]

I'm talking about 40k

[barren tapir]

Aaaand this is the sixth time

[jagged ember]

I don't like how eldars see themself how arroganty they are

Orks jhst detroy Everyrhing

[cerulean wagon]

The prophet has spoken

[jagged ember]

Can't communicate

[storm jungle]

T....The imperium literally says the galaxy belongs to humanity

how is that any better

lol

[obtuse vault]

Damn I made the racists mad today lmao

[jagged ember]

Tryands idk who likes trynads anyways

[cursive hull]

Yes?

[atomic pelican]

Konstantin speaks in symbols and runes never seen before

[cursive hull]

Fiction

[visual pumice]

It’s wrong aswell realistically

[jagged ember]

Human master race ?

[storm jungle]

SDDFKSJ

[visual pumice]

Rons and that

[jagged ember]

Me be human me like human xD

[plucky moth]

Eldar are just kinda....

look I'm sorry but the condom helmets look dumb

[atomic pelican]

Damn

[open marsh]

Its not. That's the opinion of every faction. Who is good and who is bad depends entirely on whose perspective you look through

[atomic pelican]

Owned

[storm jungle]

OOF

[cerulean wagon]

lmao

[plucky moth]

I said it

[cerulean wagon]

Eldar update when

[visual pumice]

Get condom hatted

[cursive hull]

I mean, the tall helmets are flanderized a bit.

[cerulean wagon]

[storm jungle]

It is but sure

[barren tapir]

Can this be called headshot?

[plucky moth]

aside from the helmets though, Eldar pretty neat

[obtuse vault]

Anyway time to go earn my engineering salary see y'all later then 😏

[atomic pelican]

Mod opinion confirmed

[plucky moth]

[jagged ember]

He is right there is no bad or good opinions only perspectives

[storm jungle]

LOL

Okay anakin skywalker

[obtuse vault]

Hell yeah LMAO

[atomic pelican]

Perceive deze nutz boy

[cursive hull]

No, there are definitely bad opinions.

[cerulean wagon]

gotem

[jagged ember]

For my point of view me no like xenos xD

[storm jungle]

FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THE SENATE IS EVIL

[plucky moth]

don't tempt me

[atomic pelican]

😳

[storm jungle]

incan nooo

[visual pumice]

😳

[obtuse vault]

OOP

[cerulean wagon]

[cursive hull]

I mean, I could push this from banter to something objectively much worse by stating a genuine bad opinion.

They definitely exist.

[obtuse vault]

👀

[storm jungle]

WOT

[summer niche]

this feels far beyond banter at this point

[obtuse vault]

WAIT MY NUTS TOO?

[open marsh]

Idk it feels like some people care taking this personal

[obtuse vault]

PLEASE

[atomic pelican]

Yes

Ur nuts too

[plucky moth]

hold on

[obtuse vault]

YEES

[visual pumice]

Deez

[storm jungle]

When someones points dont go beyond "they're so arrogant" yeah

[jagged ember]

Quality 40k lore

[cerulean wagon]

aight

[storm jungle]

but hey

[cerulean wagon]

nut inspection day

[atomic pelican]

Have you heard the tale of deezus the wise

[cerulean wagon]

hand em over

[plucky moth]

I'm lost in the nuts, what are we talking about?

[jagged ember]

It this 10th edition xD

[visual pumice]

Unclipping them, one sec

[atomic pelican]

Helicopter johnson please report for penis inspection day

[plucky moth]

tbf 40k lore is pretty nutty

[open marsh]

I have no idea. Apparently you aren't allowed to dislike any faction in 40k.

[cerulean wagon]

[cursive hull]

No, you are allowed.

Just not for silly reasons.

[plucky moth]

you're allowed to dislike the imperium

[summer niche]

yeah, everyone who likes it are facists and racists apparently. we should probably cancel it.

[cursive hull]

All the factions are arrogant.

[jagged ember]

HERESY

[storm jungle]

Yeah lol

[plucky moth]

ok but no like

[jagged ember]

https://tenor.com/view/heresy-detected-war-hammer-40k-gif-9829547

[open marsh]

Its a game. I can dislike them for any reason I want. And I don't just dislike them "because they are arrogant"

[plucky moth]

I like certain parts of the imperium tho

like IG are pretty cool...when they're not being fucking stupid

[visual pumice]

Gothic is cool

[obtuse vault]

😏

[jagged ember]

They have some reason

[open marsh]

That's most everyone in 40k

[plucky moth]

yeaaaaa

[summer niche]

it depends on who is the main guy in the book you're reading

[barren tapir]

What i'm seeing lately is people liking the imperium, and getting attacked by other people that don't even were part of the discussion

[plucky moth]

recurring theme in 40k is that all the major players are kinda like

fucking dumb

[cursive hull]

Its required of the plot.

[obtuse vault]

Ah the goon squad. Here to defend the racists and fascists media.

[summer niche]

||except eldar, they get the pole anyway||

[atomic pelican]

😳

[plucky moth]

like their reasoning for things sometimes just boils down to BECAUSE IT'S EDGY, DAD

[obtuse vault]

😎 👍

[atomic pelican]

owned

[obtuse vault]

Good one fellas

[storm jungle]

I feel like this chat would be less confusing if Konstantin stopped copy pasting heresy memes every 10 seconds

[jagged ember]

:(

[summer niche]

Are you forreal?

[atomic pelican]

Konstantins shitty okbuddyheretic posting keeps me sane

Dont be mean to him

[storm jungle]

no onut noOOO

[jagged ember]

https://tenor.com/view/brooklyn-nine-nine-brooklyn99-cry-all-right-im-gonna-go-cry-gif-16628980

[plucky moth]

Konstantin is the one Konstant in this chat

[cerulean wagon]

[storm jungle]

I DIDNT MEAN IT KONS DONT GO

[plucky moth]

we must protect him

[atomic pelican]

Protecc

[cerulean wagon]

atacc

[storm jungle]

[plucky moth]

nutsacc

[open marsh]

P-much. There has been a weird trend recently where people think 40k is some kind of political commentary, and not a background to buy overpriced plastic models and paintpots

[storm jungle]

it isnt tho

[visual pumice]

Maclunky

[storm jungle]

40k stopped being a commentary like

20 years ago

[obtuse vault]

I'm 100% serious for the blocked man asking

Die mad

[atomic pelican]

demolished

[summer niche]

???

[final spruce]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/556759549143678977/844660590755708968/tenor_3.gif

[jagged ember]

xD

[plucky moth]

Orks are a commentary on British football hooligans

that's...about it really tbh

[barren tapir]

I think Bug Elf blocked you

[visual pumice]

What’s wrong with his face

[final spruce]

Its Thanos

[visual pumice]

He morphs

[open marsh]

The 80s were 40 years ago

[summer niche]

Yeah i get that, i just don't understand why.

[atomic pelican]

Purple guy??

[cerulean wagon]

genuinly why i think orks are the least interesting faction

[storm jungle]

same thing

yeet

[cerulean wagon]

[visual pumice]

T hanos

[storm jungle]

But yeah i think my main point is at least dont be a brainwashed imperial stan like Boreale

lmao

[cerulean wagon]

th anos

[plucky moth]

Orks would've been cooler if they were just mad max in space tbh

[atomic pelican]

anos?

[barren tapir]

Did you said that you like the imperium? Or that you like vulkan?

[storm jungle]

Vulkan is likable

[visual pumice]

Unus anos

[final spruce]

They havea faction like that, Speed Freaks

[summer niche]

Neither, i just said this chat was being a tad hostile

[cursive hull]

The entirity of Gorka Morka

[atomic pelican]

Swedes logging on to preach peace and love on earth

If you cant handle the blood go home

[plucky moth]

https://tenor.com/view/aggression-this-aggression-will-not-stand-this-aggression-will-not-stand-man-the-big-lewoski-jeff-bridges-gif-3569577

[jagged ember]

I posted so many okbuddyheretic memes Inqusition should promote me to Lord Inquisator xD

[barren tapir]

Ah, so it was that i imagine, you "defending racist and fascist" or something IDRK

[final spruce]

@plucky moth

[cerulean wagon]

vroom

[storm jungle]

Lord Konkistator

[plucky moth]

powerful

[jagged ember]

Hmmm xD

[summer niche]

That buggy is such a cool model

[jagged ember]

In warhammer 3 kiselv has a weird version of konstantin xD

[final spruce]

The models are amazing yes

[plucky moth]

speed freaks I feel like would have a lot of marital problems though

[visual pumice]

Erm. Kinda copying mad max aren’t they. Erm kinda stupid

Erm

Erm

[atomic pelican]

Erm um

[cloud kindle]

that grot on the front of the buggy will ride

shiny and chrome

[plucky moth]

[storm jungle]

anyway getting back on point, the Emperor was not a nice dude okay I got sources to back this up

[final spruce]

If you like madmax GSC also has this

[storm jungle]

also eyyyy thats a good model

[plucky moth]

ok that's neat as fuck

[jagged ember]

And so ? :)

[atomic pelican]

Cult models some of the best xeno models atm imo

[summer niche]

Yeah

[atomic pelican]

On basis of being newer

[plucky moth]

the emperor was a nice guy™️

[visual pumice]

Also is a corpse. Kinda cring

[cursive hull]

Big E is an Autocrat.

Its basically inevitable he's going to be pretty terrible.

[storm jungle]

SDJFDFKS

[barren tapir]

GSC get a lot of cool models, too bad for their heads

[storm jungle]

We tried our best Big E

sorry

[cloud kindle]

idk some people are into that

[storm jungle]

nOOO

[visual pumice]

[final spruce]

I mean that's how it works

[atomic pelican]

Yep

Thats how mafia works

[storm jungle]

also isnt the emperor big to the point that you can fit inside his ribs

[plucky moth]

[jagged ember]

We waiting the moment when big e will turn into a 5th chaos god xD

[visual pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-how-mafia-works-meme-dank-meme-deal-with-it-how-it-works-gif-13222794

[cloud kindle]

do you think his corpse projects his image?

[plucky moth]

so I could sit inside his ribcage?

[storm jungle]

sdfsfds

god i hate that picture

HOW THE FUCK DOES THE EMPEROR SIT

[visual pumice]

Pilot him

[storm jungle]

OR LIKE GO AROUND SOMEWHERE

[final spruce]

Big E is a mech for Malcador confirmed

[open marsh]

Emperor: Brings humanity back from the brink of extinction and makes us the most powerful force in the galaxy.

Some people: The Emperor was a bad person because people didn't vote for him

[storm jungle]

oh right biomancy

[jagged ember]

Walking ?

[cloud kindle]

the universe move around for him

[summer niche]

wasn't he projecting his size anyway?

[storm jungle]

Doors

[summer niche]

like he is actually humansized

[storm jungle]

yeah its weird

[jagged ember]

https://tenor.com/view/god-emperor-warhammer-40k-gif-14288735

[barren tapir]

He is

[cursive hull]

By force, without any choice, with the penalty of death.

[cloud kindle]

doors do not obey the laws of physics

[visual pumice]

Segway

[plucky moth]

the emperor was defo compensating for something...

[storm jungle]

The Emperor was bad tho

[cloud kindle]

how dare

[visual pumice]

His big, Huuuuuuuge

[storm jungle]

but he was doing it out of necessity

so thats fine

[visual pumice]

Psychic powers

[cloud kindle]

yeah true

[storm jungle]

You gotta crack some eggs

[jagged ember]

No one is good or bad in 40k xD

[cursive hull]

Saving the human race by being exactly the same as every warlord on the planet only evens out, at the most.

[plucky moth]

I'll crack some eggs in a minute

[open marsh]

Still saved the species. You don't have to be a nice person to be a good person

[summer niche]

we're making one helluva omelette here yvrain

you gotta break a few eggs

[storm jungle]

DFDFS

[barren tapir]

For a moment i thought you were talking about much of the other races lol

[storm jungle]

i read that in kronk's voice

[atomic pelican]

Your memes end here jack

[summer niche]

[cursive hull]

I'm not saying it wasn't a net good to save humanity.

[storm jungle]

But yeah the Emperor is evil with good intentions

[cursive hull]

I'm just saying that it doesn't make him a center of morality.

[storm jungle]

thats his character

[cloud kindle]

^

[visual pumice]

And corpse

[storm jungle]

NOO

[cerulean wagon]

incan finna bust a move

[final spruce]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkUmTx5gEBU

[atomic pelican]

The 40k universe at large would probs be better off with humanity dead

[plucky moth]

I thought his character was just being a bad dad

[atomic pelican]

Considering minor xenos

[cursive hull]

I hate I can't bring up real world stuff as an ergo example.

[cloud kindle]

he was willing to sacrifice anything if it meant obtaining his goal

[jagged ember]

You can't say someone is evil or good in 40k

[cursive hull]

Oh, you definitely can.

[jagged ember]

Everyone has diffirent belifs and perspecrives

[summer niche]

i'm sure some other big empire would just be fighting in its place at that point @atomic pelican

[final spruce]

That's the point of 40k

[plucky moth]

like the imperium ends up pretty much fine if E read a basic parenting guide

[storm jungle]

The entire fandom literally says every faction is evil and universally agrees on it

so idk

[cursive hull]

They're all bad.

[jagged ember]

No ... :(

[storm jungle]

Yes :3

[final spruce]

Everybody is evil and this is where its fun

[open marsh]

He isn't evil Tho. He is good but with pragmatic methodology. A true Machiavellian

[cursive hull]

Its not a point of perspective because you don't get to have a different opinion on genocide.

[barren tapir]

Have you seen how much big he is? He have room for a lot of char

[final spruce]

Maybe a bit less the Tau

[cloud kindle]

yeah but the imperium has cool god machines

[jagged ember]

I lile Imperium :l

[atomic pelican]

I think you can measure degrees

Like drukhari

[jagged ember]

Inqusition even more

[plucky moth]

truuuu

[storm jungle]

Im gonna Machiavellian you in a minute

🗡️

but yeah its varying degrees of bad

[jagged ember]

:O

[cloud kindle]

"The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions"

[storm jungle]

^

[final spruce]

Big gap between Drukhari and Tau

[plucky moth]

I've been to hell, 99% sure it's bitumen

[cloud kindle]

yeah drukhari are cooler

[visual pumice]

Cod mw death screen

[storm jungle]

Imperium, Chaos and Dark Eldar are the top 3 i think

[atomic pelican]

Yeah probs

[open marsh]

So what were the alternatives? Just kick back and watch everyone die as they tore each other apart?

[jagged ember]

For what ?

[barren tapir]

I mean, the end justify the means was used big big E more than once

[cloud kindle]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/551/186/949.gif

[storm jungle]

the most evil factions basically

Chaos is literally Rated R decepticons

[jagged ember]

I don't Empire is evil :l

[visual pumice]

[cloud kindle]

chaos is most

[open marsh]

Yep. And he was right.

[cerulean wagon]

isn't hell just your back garden

[storm jungle]

Abaddon is megatron, Erebus gets to be his starscream lol

[jagged ember]

Impierum is the only hope for humanity

[cloud kindle]

id put dark eldar right after

[open marsh]

This

[storm jungle]

It isnt tho, thats the entire point of 40k

[summer niche]

god i hate erebus so much

[storm jungle]

humanity doesnt have to be like this

it hits itself in the knee and makes it all worse

[cloud kindle]

who actually likes erebus though

[cursive hull]

I'd like Abaddon a whole lot more if he had a genuine megatron voice.

Like G1

[jagged ember]

Well too late :(

[plucky moth]

no I mean I've been to hell hole falls

[summer niche]

erebus has got the be the most unlikeable person in the entirety of warhammer

[storm jungle]

ANYWAY GIF TIME

[cursive hull]

Erebus was designed to be unlikable.

[cloud kindle]

he is literally the worst person in 40k

[visual pumice]

He can’t be starscream

[plucky moth]

https://www.alltrails.com/trail/australia/queensland/hell-hole-falls

[barren tapir]

Well, it is debatable, but it could be said that extreme situations require extreme solutions...

[visual pumice]

Starscream is likeable

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/just-go-to-sleep-megatron-star-scream-choke-strangle-gif-14668497

[cloud kindle]

i mean its in queensland

[jagged ember]

Fixing the imperium is not easy

[cloud kindle]

so its already a hellhole

[storm jungle]

That gif is chaos in a nutshell

[plucky moth]

[open marsh]

No the point of the Imperium in 40k is that despite it being so horrible, its humanity's best hope

[storm jungle]

no

lmao

[plucky moth]

[cursive hull]

Literally no.

[visual pumice]

Me at me

[cerulean wagon]

fixing the imperium isnt easy, no one ever said that

[cloud kindle]

[cerulean wagon]

but thats kinda the point

[storm jungle]

The Emperor HIMSELF literally says the Imperium is going to die a slow death and fight against the dying of the light

[cerulean wagon]

they still are evil

[storm jungle]

like rome COUGH

[jagged ember]

Thats why I choose Imperium

[cursive hull]

The Imperium is the worst possible outcome for humanity, bar none.

[storm jungle]

^

[open marsh]

Same

[cloud kindle]

chaos id say is worse

[visual pumice]

Rome wasn’t built in a day

[cursive hull]

Well, technically Rome survived for a longer time than most people think.

[storm jungle]

Yeee exactly

[cursive hull]

But only if we consider Byzantium Rome.

[cloud kindle]

being utterly corrupted and mutated

[storm jungle]

it dragged itself through

[open marsh]

Ummm....I think you forget that chaos and xenos exist

[atomic pelican]

You know in the past 2 days ive heard literally the worst 2 40k takes ever, the 1st being "the imperium isnt xenophobic"

[storm jungle]

"for humanity"

[barren tapir]

I see the imperium as one of the solutions, not necessarily the best, but one in many

[cursive hull]

But they aren't the current human government, are they?

The point is that Fascism is stupidly fucking bad, for everyone.

[open marsh]

The Imperium isn't facist

[atomic pelican]

Boot moments

[visual pumice]

😳

[cursive hull]

That's an adorable line of thinking

[jagged ember]

Imperium isin't facist

[cloud kindle]

imperium just really fucking hates xenos

[jagged ember]

:(

[storm jungle]

Its fascist but it isnt its main alignment.

since like

its the compilation of EVERY bad regime

[barren tapir]

That wasn't said though, it was said that the imperium has the right to be that...

[cursive hull]

To think the Imperium doesn't have some line of Authoritarian governance is hilarious.

[atomic pelican]

No it was literally word for word said

[cursive hull]

You're born into a job and you work it till you die.

[storm jungle]

^

Oppression of the masses and wanton murder of its own citizens already puts it there

[open marsh]

Its a tributary empire....does no one actually bother to study political ideologies and structures?

[storm jungle]

oh my god

lol

Yeah sure

[barren tapir]

Where, because i only saw that said by Dilara when paraphrasing another person

[storm jungle]

Considering its what he said yeah

[barren tapir]

Oi, i do

[storm jungle]

but to be fair Boreale is literally an imperial stan

so its hard to really argue with him

[atomic pelican]

It was a day before you got into the convo, because as usual, you joined in 75% thru withoht knowing what was happening

[cloud kindle]

look we cant let anyone know fapping with barbed wire might summon a daemon so its better to just blow up that entire section of the hive just to be safe

[cursive hull]

Tributary? It uses basically direct rule. Just because you have a military governorship doesn't mean shit.

[storm jungle]

DAMN IT

[barren tapir]

Eeeehh, still not said word by word as claimed by Proud

[visual pumice]

[jagged ember]

https://youtu.be/S2o-LmI3kiE

First 11 seconds xD

[storm jungle]

But yeah I wasnt saying the Imperium is fully fascist. It's just one shit 'ism among many in their bloated carcarss of a ruling body

[gaunt vector]

The Imperium is humanity's best chance in 40k

like it or not

[cursive hull]

But it doesn't have to be

[storm jungle]

No

thats Primaris

[summer niche]

i'm sure you can find any and all types of governments on all the planets that it contains

[open marsh]

Its not. Planets and even systems are left to their own devices, as long as they follow certain guidelines and pay their taxes

[cloud kindle]

thats girlyman

[atomic pelican]

Click it or ticket

[storm jungle]

YEEEE HALLOWEEEN

[barren tapir]

I was referring to what happened with Boreale and Mullokad, are you referring to something other?

[summer niche]

the imperium is just too big

[jagged ember]

Humanity = Imperium

[cloud kindle]

wait

[cursive hull]

Only just barely, and even then, not all the time.

[cloud kindle]

how did i get involved

[gaunt vector]

No. you are funny for using that meme

[jagged ember]

I don't like how coorupt its

[storm jungle]

Yeah as Deyj says, its literally a mess of EVERY ruling system imaginable

[jagged ember]

But still best chance of humanity :l

[storm jungle]

so saying it doesnt have any of those is false lol

[gaunt vector]

true

[open marsh]

Yup

[cursive hull]

In theory, the provinces of Rome were okay doing whatever they wanted, but they were governed by a representative of the state. The Planetary Governor's authority comes from his Imperial backing, not from his own power.

[cerulean wagon]

it doesnt fucking matter what you call it the imperium is a mix of the worst possible outcomes

[jagged ember]

Like or not

Emperor protects

[storm jungle]

no he doesnt

LOL

[jagged ember]

:D

[storm jungle]

Now come here and be a lobotimized flesh slave to hold a door

[cloud kindle]

i mean he tries

[jagged ember]

:O

[cloud kindle]

oh fuck yeah

[gaunt vector]

Actually, Dilara. What would u propose as an alternative within the bounds of 40k logic?

[cloud kindle]

sign me up

[gaunt vector]

does

[storm jungle]

Which alternative

[jagged ember]

He talked bad to imperium

[storm jungle]

tell me m'boi

[cursive hull]

Literally anything?

[storm jungle]

Or was just an innocent mother protecting her kid?

[summer niche]

there was that technological state they ran into quite early... what were they called

[cursive hull]

A direct monarchy would be an improvement.

[storm jungle]

like the mechanicus novel?

lmao

[cloud kindle]

interex?

[gaunt vector]

any. I want to know what u think humanity should do instead of being the imperium

[summer niche]

yeeee

[storm jungle]

Be more like the Interex

[summer niche]

they were doing pretty alright weren't they?

[cloud kindle]

which EREBUS FUCKING RUINED

FUCKING EREBUS

[storm jungle]

FUCKING EREBUS

[summer niche]

EREEEEEEEEEEBUS

[gaunt vector]

that statement is as cheap as it is wrong

[atomic pelican]

Vect wakes up and tows terra into the webway and the imperium collapses

[storm jungle]

"eyyyy its ya boi"

[cursive hull]

Its true, though.

[open marsh]

You mean like...an autocratic Emperor?

[storm jungle]

Oh yeah people forget the Necrons can just click on terra and make it explode

[jagged ember]

Doesn't Imperium had high lords of terra ?

[gaunt vector]

do we even know anything about them?

[cursive hull]

He's more of a god king, not really a true monarch.

[storm jungle]

Yes???

[cursive hull]

But even then

[storm jungle]

Like an entire opening chapter

[cloud kindle]

yeah but they had a bit of a shakeup since girlyman returned

[jagged ember]

And some of them sacked by guirli man xD

[plucky moth]

guess I'll mention for reasons of clarity: fascism isn't an ideology with a strict system per se, it's more about power structures than the actual specifics of governance/systems

[gaunt vector]

no ❤️

[cursive hull]

A proper autocrat, like a genuine Emperor would be much fucking better.

[cloud kindle]

and then a couple of former high lords lost their heads

literally

[cursive hull]

And even then

Big E isn't even in charge anymore.

He's a skeleton in a chair.

[storm jungle]

Yeah hes just a corpse on a chair

[summer niche]

high lords of terra

[cloud kindle]

he is more active in the warp

[cursive hull]

The High Lords are also unimaginally terrible.

[summer niche]

more like High NERDS of terra

[atomic pelican]

Owned

[jagged ember]

Emperor helps mavigate in warp

[plucky moth]

wow I can't believe Settra lived long enough to rule the imperium in 40k

[atomic pelican]

😳

[plucky moth]

truly imperishable

[storm jungle]

noOO

[cloud kindle]

like spoilers he ||LITERALLY PULLED STERNS SHIP THROUGH THE TEAR||

[visual pumice]

High loser of nerd planet

[open marsh]

You mean like..

Most kings in history who held power by claiming they held their position by the will of the divine? Or just claimed to be divine themselves like Japanese and Chinese Emperors?

[jagged ember]

And fights deamons :l

[obtuse vault]

Damn y'all still Poppin off?

[atomic pelican]

Settra would be an improvement

[plucky moth]

I'll pop ya

[storm jungle]

Settra would make an orbital pyramid

which ngl sounds really cool

[jagged ember]

We can't chnaged the imperium in 2 days

Give it like 10k xD

[storm jungle]

Im gonna change you in a minute

[jagged ember]

Warhamer 52K

[storm jungle]

[plucky moth]

I think you could solve the imperium in a weekend tbh

[cloud kindle]

Do it

[jagged ember]

:O

[cloud kindle]

pull the trigger

[cursive hull]

So, again, to get to the point of my general thrust.

The Imperium is bad as its entire thematic purpose. Its bad to show that its at the bottom of the barrel.

If it began to, oh, I don't know, integrate Xenos as subjects rather than genocide them, they'd come off better?

[storm jungle]

Everybody really IS working for the weekend

[cursive hull]

Like the interex

[jagged ember]

:O

[cerulean wagon]

I dont want the imperium to change because its a fun setting

[cursive hull]

I mean, no.

[cerulean wagon]

just want people to aknowledge its stupid

[cursive hull]

It shouldn't change

[storm jungle]

I agree people dying is funny, and no i say this honestly

[cloud kindle]

i mean genocide is the safer option

[jagged ember]

Where is the COMMISAR

[open marsh]

Yeah. Just march right in there and tell them they are bad and should be all democratic and not fight anyone

[barren tapir]

I was just aways some times checking if anyone ever said recently if the imperium wasn't xenophobic, no result, but what are we talking about now?

[cloud kindle]

jeez thats going to sound fucking bad out of context

[jagged ember]

EXECUTE DILARA FOR TREASON

[storm jungle]

the entirety of the imperium is us having joy through the suffering of others

[atomic pelican]

I would like another human faction, thatd be neat

[storm jungle]

and its great

[atomic pelican]

Like a minor one

[jagged ember]

commisar do your duty :)

[storm jungle]

• Dilara 2021

[cerulean wagon]

we got one proud

interex

🙂

[atomic pelican]

Yee

[summer niche]

bro, he was literally just lift hte blackpyramid

[cursive hull]

You don't have to be a true democracy or even a republic to be better than the Imperium is right now.

[atomic pelican]

I mean one thats alive

[cloud kindle]

blame erebus.

[summer niche]

[atomic pelican]

Like now

[cerulean wagon]

[jagged ember]

Chaos ?

[storm jungle]

[obtuse vault]

I have a slam dunk for y'all

Imperium. Spelled not like empire, but like Imperialism... :thinking:

[atomic pelican]

Tru

[open marsh]

Severan Dominate

[cloud kindle]

republic?

[storm jungle]

Chaos is boring

[jagged ember]

Like isint chaos a human faction

At this point xD

[cursive hull]

No?

[storm jungle]

like i said they're literally deceptions in space lol

[cursive hull]

Not fully.

[cerulean wagon]

when do we get

[storm jungle]

"DECEPTICONS, RETREAAAAT"

[atomic pelican]

Ones that actuallt a playable TT faction with its own identity. Not one of the several imperium rebellions

[cloud kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/thorn-clone-wars-machine-gun-clone-clone-trooper-gif-16953342

[cerulean wagon]

40k power rangers

[cursive hull]

They don't follow the same general rules a human civilization does.

[cerulean wagon]

WAIT NO

THE PRIMARCHS

[open marsh]

Apparently Chaos is better for humanity according to Carroboi

[cerulean wagon]

THE PRIMARCHS ARE POWER RANGERS

[cursive hull]

No, god damn it.

[obtuse vault]

I have another slam dunk.

Age of Sigmar is the inherently more interesting and fun setting

[atomic pelican]

Chais based

Chaos

[storm jungle]

Khoas

[cloud kindle]

chaos is not based

[cursive hull]

Just because one faction is worse than another, does not make the Imperium a city upon a hill.

Ffs

[visual pumice]

Caos

[cursive hull]

THat's not an argument.

[jagged ember]

SIGMAR :/

[atomic pelican]

Caocao

[plucky moth]

you just gotta hop on a mechanicus computer, find the imperium.config and then set "func: imperium good = true"

it'll all be sorted by monday

[atomic pelican]

Ez

[storm jungle]

Anyway im gonna order some food then come back, you guys better keep arguing

🚶‍♀️

[gaunt vector]

have to be honest, I disagree completely. Space is just cooler imo

[cerulean wagon]

what u orderin

[atomic pelican]

Blood flows and the gods revel

[storm jungle]

Pizza

[visual pumice]

Beans i hope

[cursive hull]

I don't get AOS

[visual pumice]

Oh

[jagged ember]

:O

[cerulean wagon]

AoS is fine, i prefer old WHF tho

[cursive hull]

It doesn't feel as grounded as WHF

[atomic pelican]

THIS ELF EATING BEANS

[cerulean wagon]

not a fan of the AOS high fantasy vibes

[cursive hull]

Like...

[jagged ember]

From where ?

[obtuse vault]

Awesome I'm blocking you for taking me seriously

[jagged ember]

Dominos xD

[atomic pelican]

damn

[cloud kindle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/735819155608961044/846556986661404702/xALw7fUm9lMsaNF7.mp4

[atomic pelican]

powerful

[gaunt vector]

that's fair

[storm jungle]

Also as bad as the Empire of Man was they were still good guys minus all the parody of medieval evilism and shit

[obtuse vault]

Lmao AND lol

[atomic pelican]

Respecc

[cursive hull]

This

[visual pumice]

I liked alot of the whf factions that don’t exist in aos

[cursive hull]

They're functionally just the HRE

[storm jungle]

Yeeee

actually that too

[barren tapir]

Tilea supreme!

[storm jungle]

the parody of the evil shit they do is just there for laughs

compared to the Imperium where its just "eat this corpse meat"

[atomic pelican]

Consoom the starch

[cloud kindle]

whoops daemon invasion better purge the planet just to be safe

[cerulean wagon]

dan abnetts take on the imperium is preferable to the actual lore

[cursive hull]

And "You've committed the crime of stealing bread, become servitor now."

[atomic pelican]

Yee

[cerulean wagon]

where its just people living, but life is shit

[atomic pelican]

Abnett pretty good

[open marsh]

That's a resource issue. Its that or starve

[cerulean wagon]

i actually cant wait for eisenhorn live action

to have some of it covered

[cursive hull]

Same

[atomic pelican]

Also lul I love Abnett outright saying the imperium was a critique of fascism

[cerulean wagon]

no they have the resources available, its just there to be edgy

[atomic pelican]

Official statement vs softbrainism

[obtuse vault]

Also don't worry @cerulean wagon ur cool

[jagged ember]

Still I'm a Imperium Loyalist xD

[cerulean wagon]

thats fine konstantin

[gaunt vector]

same

[cloud kindle]

eisenhorn series in a nutshell

[cerulean wagon]

I'm an IG main

[cerulean wagon]

but the imperiums still fuckin dumb

[atomic pelican]

Yeah I love how ppl whine abt "u just hate the imperium!!" When its clearly not that. @cerulean wagon is one of my favorites here

[open marsh]

No that happens in Hive cities where there are way more people than local resources can comfortably handle

[cerulean wagon]

[gaunt vector]

yes. its 40k. everyone is and that's why its fun

[jagged ember]

I know but we have a lot of practice dummies :D

[cursive hull]

The Imperium has entire worlds that do nothing but produce food.

[jagged ember]

Like eldar

Or tau

[cerulean wagon]

exactly yible

[jagged ember]

Or necrons

[obtuse vault]

Yep see this is why I love this guy

[jagged ember]

Or trtnaids

[obtuse vault]

He gets it

[jagged ember]

xD

[cloud kindle]

imperiums great

[storm jungle]

How's that going out for you

[atomic pelican]

Necron'd

[visual pumice]

Love that man

[jagged ember]

So far so good

Making progress xD

[storm jungle]

Get gauss'd

[gaunt vector]

just unplug them

[storm jungle]

[open marsh]

Yeah. And it's still not enough. Due to the sheer amount of humans it has

[visual pumice]

We of the destroyer cult have decided we want to try legs

[storm jungle]

https://youtu.be/6wJQw6jNp0w

[visual pumice]

[cursive hull]

Anyway, despite what someone might think, I like the Imperium thematically.

I just have to point out that they're not the best possible outcome, even in setting.

Although I like the Ad Mech even more.

[cloud kindle]

wheres the quote where its eldar discussing dont underestimated the imperium they will bury you with their dead

[storm jungle]

[storm jungle]

This

[atomic pelican]

Droids(star wars) are legit some of the best robots in any setting

[open marsh]

Who is a better one then?

[cursive hull]

And are also basically enslaved Androids.

[atomic pelican]

Just for meme factor

[summer niche]

i think that's the point, honestly. the big e tried to get the best possible outcome

but mang

[cloud kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/just-g-ot-roger-rogerd-starwars-droid-dance-gif-15825707

[summer niche]

it did not go as planned

[storm jungle]

Yeah thats the entire irony

[cursive hull]

Not anyone in the setting, that's the point?

[obtuse vault]

@atomic pelican has permission to dunk on folks in my absence I must go to work now. Farewell

[atomic pelican]

The memey prequels vs the actual lore is hilarious

[storm jungle]

the Imperium is fucked lol

[peak hamlet]

Holy shit whats going on

[storm jungle]

Imperium argument

save yourself

[atomic pelican]

Elf gave me permission to bait

[storm jungle]

for the love of god

[open marsh]

Star Wars droids are just Men of Iron

[cloud kindle]

we are going on

[cloud kindle]

and going off

[peak hamlet]

Oh god

[cloud kindle]

thank you big e

[atomic pelican]

I must perform as my lover takes her absense

[storm jungle]

SAVE YOURSELF

[plucky moth]

big E's bara tiddies tho

[obtuse vault]

💖

[storm jungle]

But yeah people act like when the End Times happens in 40k the Imperium will survive it lmao

[atomic pelican]

😳

[gaunt vector]

which one. answer carefully the inquisitor is listening

[open marsh]

Already happened

[storm jungle]

its entire fate is to be destroyed eventually

[plucky moth]

jesus I might actually have to ban myself proper

[storm jungle]

jesus christ medic

it didnt

[summer niche]

considering GW writing, nothing will prob survive

[peak hamlet]

😳

[storm jungle]

the Time of Ending was just a dramatic title

[cursive hull]

The Heresy doesn't count, and neither does the fall of Cadia.

[jagged ember]

Empire will survie you know why ?

[open marsh]

It was literally called the Time of Ending

[storm jungle]

yeah

i just said it

[atomic pelican]

No dude they squatted regimentd!!11 I swear!!

[storm jungle]

lol

[jagged ember]

GW sells a lot of SM figures

[barren tapir]

Why?

[summer niche]

Hahahahha

[cerulean wagon]

Okay so on this actually

One of the only things i dont like is Big E and his attatchments. I feel like originally he wasn't a god till post crusade, but now everything is back written as him knowing things would go this way and letting them happen, which is the stupidest shit int he setting.

Think it would be much more interesting if he was a man with a vision and the will to achieve it, even if his vision is wrong and achieves nothing good in the long run

[atomic pelican]

Hes already banned dont believe him

[peak hamlet]

Ok time to not waste my lunch break

[open marsh]

Take me with you

[summer niche]

best answer in this whole thread so far

[atomic pelican]

I did it

[jagged ember]

Gw will write a plot armor story about how imperium survied the endtimes xD

[plucky moth]

#40k-lore-chat message

[barren tapir]

Oh

[storm jungle]

1 sec incan

[gaunt vector]

gud

[cerulean wagon]

gimme mod so i can ban you incan

its the only way

[storm jungle]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/516726759010336772/820245252383965194/image0.png?width=607&height=609

my faceapp powers bear fruit once more

[visual pumice]

Cute

[atomic pelican]

Long live the king

[visual pumice]

Is she single?

[summer niche]

reminds me so much of sienna

[summer niche]

[storm jungle]

But yeah the Imperium is gonna decay and die

[jagged ember]

Death the false emperor

[storm jungle]

Big E said it himself

thats all i need

lol

[jagged ember]

Where is the true emperor

:(

[atomic pelican]

Hes got four arms bro

[cloud kindle]

hes on the throne

[atomic pelican]

Silly

[plucky moth]

ok so Big Empress, played by Eva Green, let's go

[storm jungle]

LETS GOOO

[atomic pelican]

LES GOE BUGS

COMRADE LEVIATHAN

[open marsh]

In the hearts of all those loyal to his Imperium

[jagged ember]

Big Empress is an impostor

[atomic pelican]

SEND IN THE NIDS

[jagged ember]

Sus

[storm jungle]

You do know that hes the imposter right

he can shapeshift

[atomic pelican]

Sus?!?!

[storm jungle]

LEL

[cursive hull]

anyway, Big E could have abdicated post unification of Terra, and become a figure head, that already improves the chances the Imperium becomes only as fucked as most modern nations.

Big E could have remained an Autocrat but declare an actual heir apparent, or institute an HRE vote system.

He could of done anything other than "We're going into space to kill everyone and rule forevers."

But he did that, so that's what happened, and then it went down the toilet as we all know.

[atomic pelican]

Big E is amogus?

[visual pumice]

Sussus amongus

[atomic pelican]

ErebeSUS

[cloud kindle]

look

[cursive hull]

That is the point

[open marsh]

Stopping at your first point:

HE PLANNED TO DO JUST THAT.

[cloud kindle]

as long as erebus dies first

[summer niche]

it's probably erebus fault tbh

[visual pumice]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[cursive hull]

But he didn't, did he?

[cloud kindle]

he actually planned it

[storm jungle]

Get em!

[atomic pelican]

Horsus heresy xd

[storm jungle]

56 books

fuckin' hell

[cursive hull]

Good intentions, paved roads of bad ideas, etc.

[cloud kindle]

the first high lords were kind of sensible

[cerulean wagon]

i actually

only like the first 3 hh books

[open marsh]

He was going to after the great Crusade. Its why he delegated more and more power to the Senate

[cloud kindle]

with malcador at the head

[cerulean wagon]

the rest can be ignored

[plucky moth]

Emps is on some tzeentch shit level of planning unplanned shit that unravels his unplanned plans

[atomic pelican]

Arent most of them filler anyways?

[plucky moth]

but it was all planned

[storm jungle]

Best part of 40k

[jagged ember]

But funny thing

[storm jungle]

making up dumb shit to fill plotholes of bad writing

WE WERE PERPETUALS ALL ALONG

[jagged ember]

Big Emp got stronger in 10k

Because praying buffs xD

[cerulean wagon]

entirely. Its all filler and MY PRIMARCH IS BETTER THAN YOUR PRIMARCH

[atomic pelican]

LUL

[cursive hull]

It was still mostly a dual system at most. The fact when he fell it all went to shit shows that they still lacked the power of governance to avoid the Imperium entirely.

[cloud kindle]

dilara i dont want to be a perpetual

[cerulean wagon]

tough

[cloud kindle]

stab me with fulgurite

[cursive hull]

Modern Imperium*

[cursive hull]

Too bad

[visual pumice]

What are we in, some kind of horus heresy?

[atomic pelican]

Ur ass going perpetual

[plucky moth]

the only thing that's perpetual is the depressive malaise

[cursive hull]

Truuuu

[storm jungle]

https://preview.redd.it/04ocs72252171.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=3697a47cc5b245a9e1b879e6175271516849d28f

[plucky moth]

[visual pumice]

Mayonnaise

[jagged ember]

Well Vulakns seems happy xD

[atomic pelican]

Ur not allowed to sadpost

Only happy post

[jagged ember]

He got nuked into face

[atomic pelican]

In this discord we encourage positivity

[jagged ember]

And survived xD

[open marsh]

It didn't fall apart. The Imperium still remained. It just changed because of the will of the people. Ironically. The Emperor wanted no religions, especially none of him. Yet when he fell, that's exactly the opposite of what happened

[storm jungle]

"will of the people"

LOL

[cursive hull]

His vision of the Imperium fell apart.

And "Will of the people."

[plucky moth]

tbf I'm actually really happy rn since I now have a significant other as of today

[cursive hull]

lol

[storm jungle]

WILL. OF. THE. PEOPLE.

[atomic pelican]

GOOD

[jagged ember]

Yes but this benefited more to E than Imperium

[cursive hull]

You mean the will of the Rich and powerful?

[storm jungle]

^

and religious assholes

[atomic pelican]

Is it someone I know 😳

[cloud kindle]

whats that

[jagged ember]

He got so strong because of how many 28637287382738 prayings he is getting each dau xD

[cursive hull]

It basically became a military Junta with people cosplaying as a civilian goverment.

[final spruce]

Damn you guys are really having a nerd rage because of a 40y old mess of a storyline ?

[open marsh]

Its sad but true. The Imperial Cult is in direct opposition to the Emperor's will and wishes. So you can't blame him for that

[atomic pelican]

Yeah join in the fight

[final spruce]

Nah I'm eating fruits

[atomic pelican]

Get in loser we're going killin

[plucky moth]

you share a server but I don't think you two have ever interacted lol

[storm jungle]

get em boys get em

[summer niche]

Good choice

[cloud kindle]

kill me first

[final spruce]

Plus I have decided not to care with 40k lore anymore

[storm jungle]

Chad

[atomic pelican]

Good choice

[final spruce]

If the authors don't so will I

[open marsh]

I'm just sitting here being amused that people take 40k as some kind of political commentary

[atomic pelican]

Zherlum you're a legend and I mean that

[storm jungle]

what political commentary

[jagged ember]

Still Imperial Cult benefits to emperor than the Imperium

[cursive hull]

The ultimate point is that no Autocrat wants the worst for his people. (Well, some do.)

But most think themselves the good guys of their own story.

[storm jungle]

we are literally talking about how the imperium is shitty lol

you make it sound like someone said the imperium is nazi germany

[atomic pelican]

Damn bro, guess Abnett literally didnt just say that it was a commentary

[jagged ember]

:(

[final spruce]

Thank you Onut

[jagged ember]

Xenos be bad

[cursive hull]

I'm sure many dictators through out time and space thought they were doing a good job

Doesn't mean they were though.

[open marsh]

And he still had a net good. He saved humanity from extinction and brought them back to dominance

[cloud kindle]

i dont have time to die, im too busy

[plucky moth]

the imperium is shitty in the sense that it's not out of necessity, it's out of...bad writing tbh

[storm jungle]

LOL

[cerulean wagon]

niiice

[storm jungle]

INCAN DROPPING THE ATOM BOMB

[summer niche]

[jagged ember]

https://tenor.com/view/heresy-silly-warhammer40000-space-marine-purge-intensifies-gif-7691332

So many heresy in here

[storm jungle]

yeah we get it holy shit

[cloud kindle]

thats heresy your talking right there incan

[jagged ember]

Calling the inqusition for exterminatus

[open marsh]

Also a dictator =/= facism

[plucky moth]

like the imperium, hell ALL the factions could be written wayyy better

[cursive hull]

Any idiot with two brain cells and an army of super soldiers could have done it.

The only difference is that Emps had planed it out.

[cloud kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/heresy-detected-war-hammer-40k-gif-9829547

[barren tapir]

Extremely happy to hear that Incan

[cursive hull]

Okay?

[plucky moth]

[storm jungle]

Nobody said the imperium is fully fascist either, CHRIST

it has elements of it

[atomic pelican]

I cooka da pasta

[plucky moth]

she's a sweetheart too, am lucky

[cursive hull]

Its definitely Authoritarian of some flavor or another though.

[atomic pelican]

Aaa thats so cute

[open marsh]

It has elements of a democratic meritocracy but noone says it's that,cever

[cursive hull]

Because they're rare and usually not of any merit?

[storm jungle]

It has the elements of every ruling system imaginable

[atomic pelican]

Damn bro cant wait to go vote after being turned into mulch