40k's theme isnt really coherent enough to define. One could argue grimdark but that varies wildly too
#40k-lore-chat
atomic pelican
vagrant osprey
C.S. Goto didn't get fired for writing Blood Raven x Taldeer snuff porn, even though it contradicted how things actually went in DOW
The theme is "Maximize awful"
open marsh
Well he certainly wrote aweful. on multiple levels
vagrant osprey
Yes.
crisp heath
I like 40k books 🙂
eternal ledge
C.S. Goto didn't get fired for writing Blood Raven x Taldeer snuff porn, even th...
I only bought the first 2 books because I was a DoW fan and didn't even know about the 3rd till like a year ago
I also read his Blood Angels duology which was just as bad
vagrant osprey
I can only imagine how awful that was for you.
A fan of DoW who decides to get the novels, and you're ambushed by C.S. Goto's writing
eternal ledge
I was on summer break in high-school
I read alot of dumb stuff
Like the Inquisitor trilogy, or a bunch of bad Battletech books
eternal ledge
The DS9 Millennium trilogy that ended with a literal Deus Ex Machina
crisp heath
So who's da real lore expert here?
storm jungle
Kinda varies.
peak hamlet
Whats it about? 👀
peak hamlet
Which one? Homebrew?
crisp heath
Lamenters
crisp heath
He more needs help with just the way hiveworld battles work and space marine company structure i guess
atomic pelican
Funny enough I feel that this is probably one of the few warhammer spaces where not alot of the vocal community members care much about space marines
But that kind of information is probably just listed on a wiki somewhere
especially company structure
atomic pelican
Yus
atomic pelican
Hiveworld battles is probably just gonna be something you surmise
or they surmise, rather
cerulean wagon
He more needs help with just the way hiveworld battles work and space marine com...
Company structure you can find online, as far as hiveworld battles, check into any kind of urban warfare tactics used for modern day and find one he likes. Don't be afraid to adjust it for some vertical warfare from mountaining regiments or w/e. Every chapter handles it differently, but the lamenters are pretty grounded standard stuff from what i remember so nato military manoeuvres is probably a good place to start
peak hamlet
Honestly i would just lay siege to a hive and shell it untill they surrender.
crisp heath
He's having the battle take place in the desert-type wastelands between the hive spires
peak hamlet
Oh so they are already on the hive
crisp heath
Ye
crisp heath
Reading Fear to Tread and im up to the part where the blood angels are fighting living street lamps
Fuck yeah
Oh shit now the roads are attacking them!
And the buildings are transformers!
crisp heath
I am enjoying this book
open marsh
The Horus Heresy (and 40k books) become extremely enjoyable when you remove the memes from your mind
storm jungle
Depends.
While i agree for the general novels a lot of the HH stuff is just bolter-porn and straight up boring at times.
It does have its gems though.
crisp heath
This book rocks
Its just a straight horror movie
Didnt even know there was a book that featured Sangunius so prominently
daring hill
I love Iron within, Iron without
open marsh
Barabas is the best boy
Did you read the rest of his lore?
Hammer of Olympia, Unremembered Empire, and Pharos?
hallow apex
Betrayer is my favorite heresy book.
summer niche
I can barely Keep the books apart in my mind
It's all so samey in the end
With different colours
I did enjoy some short grey knight novel though cause they ended up fighting "data daemons"
Pretty novell
vagrant osprey
Did they actually fight data daemons? Or was that the grey knights being literally insane, like when that one insisted that the geller fields were a sleeping psyker being tortured?
summer niche
I think it was literally data demons
They were jumping between cogitators to attack
vagrant osprey
Ah, unruly Machine Spirits
storm jungle
Welcome to the reason why i hate everything
when we cant be as glorious as him whats the point
storm jungle
gaunt vector
they get a duel vs each other I think
on Prospero
bc the Khan gets back from the edge of everything and kinda has a "the guy who walks into the burning room holding pizzas" moment
crisp heath
LOL
And what was Mortarion/DeathGuard's role before he turned to Chaos?
like in the imperial legions
gaunt vector
They changed after morty was found
barren tapir
Biological warfare
gaunt vector
the Dusk Raiders appeared to be very chill but the Death Guard were warcrimes incarnate
crisp heath
😮
barren tapir
Like the dark angels had a lot of old technology the death guard had a lot of old biological weapons
IIRC it was all according to big E plan
novel fulcrum
if i recall correctly
vast frigate
If i recall corrextly
gaunt vector
IIRC it was all according to big E plan
well the Dusk Raiders did appear to be a bit of a WW1 reference, only attacking at Dawn/Dusk
so it makes sense that they would also have chemical weapons
also they usualy advanced as a relentless line like WW1 tactics
the main difference being that SM have armour so it isn't a completely stupid idea to advance like that
cunning lantern
Did that.
peak hamlet
Oh i meant horus is a dick but whatever
vagrant osprey
Which is ironic as fuck considering they spend all day playing fetch with dog daemons ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Oh, Horus had already fallen to chaos at that point.
peak hamlet
Thats no excuse lol
gaunt vector
yup
crisp heath
Big dingus
gaunt vector
Big dingus
Sanguinius to Horus on the bridge of the Vengeful Spirit circa M31
storm jungle
Also to make it worse
after the deed was done you'd think Russ would feel bad, but no he just felt bad about the aspect of being tricked by Horus
not that
you know
he half-murdered his own brother
and burned his homeworld
lol
gaunt vector
Magnus was trying REALLY hard to be loyal as well
15th is my favouite traitor legion
peak hamlet
Death guard and night lords are my favourite traitor legions. And thousand sons because they wouldn't have gone traitor if big e told him about his webway project
crisp heath
There are no trader lesbians * traitor Legions for the emperor is false and a contract contingent on fraud is invalid.
*Thank you voice to text for that gem
rotund siren
lmao
I'm sure there are at least some trader lesbians, especially among the Rogue Traders
novel fulcrum
yeah, i genuinely don't think russ ever wanted to kill magnus
he just had a duty to fulfill as the emperor's executioner
crisp heath
It rather demonstrates how bad of a role that was for him to take upon himself. I mean not only did he try to kill Magnus and his legion, he also wiped out a planet full of innocent civilians. And then for some reason the Space Wolves have the audacity to think that they're the ones that need to get revenge.
jagged aurora
#Magnusdidnothingwrong russ really is a bad guy for the whole burning of prospero. Sure Horus manipulated him, and Magnus should have been arrested but everything would have gone smoothly from then on if he didn't go full wolffucker
crisp heath
#russdidnothingwrong 😂
cloud kindle
summer niche
I've always had a soft spot for the thousand sons
Reading prospero burns was heartbreaking
open marsh
Reading prospero burns was heartbreaking
Wait until you read Fury of Magnus
summer niche
"It’s very much a story of Magnus figuring out, once and for all, whose side he is on. It’s his last chance to turn back and embrace the Emperor again."
Nooooope
I'm not ready for this kind of pain
open marsh
I wasnt either
summer niche
🫂
open marsh
novel fulcrum
"I assure you, ||letting 90% of my sons die alongside a number of innocent civilians and PDF forces on top of letting the one bastion of humanity on Prospero be turned to ash, all because I felt bad about accidentally being used by Tzeentch was of vital importance to my plan of turning to Chaos anyway.||" -Magnus the Red
cloud kindle
father number 3 was the worst father for magnus
ebon terrace
yes
open marsh
@summer niche Know what also pained me?
How familiar are you with the story of Barabas Dantioch
summer niche
Yeah
That's the iron within worn without book isn't it?
I've read the book but boy am i bad at remembering
cloud kindle
wasnt that the ummm
loyalist iron warrior?
who crushed failbaddon with his corpse?
or was that another lad
open marsh
That's the iron within worn without book isn't it?
It was in:
Hammer of Olympia (Novel)
Iron Within (Short Story)
Unremembered Empire (Novel)
Pharos (Novel)
@cloud kindle He was a loyalist Iron Warrior, but he never faced Abbadon
cloud kindle
okay a different guy
open marsh
After he embarrassed the traitor IWs by holding them in a siege for just over a year. With a far numerically inferior force. Then blew up the fort they were trying to take.
He was assigned to figure out WTF was the Pharos facility on the planet Sotha
He figured it out, got it to a somewhat functional state. But then the Night Lords attacked and tried to take it. They almost did.....but they didnt realize what Dantioch's signature tactic is: if he is about to be defeated, he is going to blow up whatever he was defending. Because he damn sure isnt going to let you have it
So Dantioch overloaded the Pharos to prevent the Night Lords from using it
cloud kindle
ah that guy
open marsh
He was declared a HERO OF THE IMPERIUM by Guilliman
cloud kindle
and sadly attracted the tyranids
open marsh
But what made me said is in the novel Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work
The last surviving Firstborn of the Scythes return to Sotha to join with an expedition back into the Pharos
They come across Dantioch's funeral pyre....and its mentioned that whoever was laid to rest upon it (if anyone) was lost to legends.
open marsh
A myth of a "traitor redeemed" just one of many surrounding it
summer niche
it's very easy to empathise with him
poor guy had it rough
he was everything a space marine should be
cloud kindle
was forgotten about then suddenly like wtf were traitors?
open marsh
?
cloud kindle
if i remember he and his force were in some forsaken place and forgotten about before the heresy broke out
open marsh
No they just have forgotten who Dantioch was. And many myths about who was burned upon his funeral pyre exist. Like some in the chapter say that it was where the first settler on Sotha was burned
open marsh
if i remember he and his force were in some forsaken place and forgotten about b...
Thats from Hammer of Olympia. Where he and his surviving company were exiled to Lesser Damantyne
There, when the heresy rolled around, Dantioch and his remaining Iron Warriors refused to turn traitor.
summer niche
i like the lil scenes in that book where they're in the temple
the iron warrior temples are pretty neat
open marsh
When Warsmith Krendl (formerly a Captain under Dantioch's command and chosen as his replacement upon Dantioch's exile) came to Lesser Damantyne with orders that Dantioch turn traitor with the rest of the legion. This was Dantioch's response"
the renegade Warmaster. My garrison and I are loyal to the Emperor: we will not share in your
damnation.’ The cold pride that afflicted the Legion, as well as their Iron father, glinted in Dantioch’s
cloudy eyes. ‘It seems I have one last opportunity to prove my worthiness to the primarch. I will not fail
him this time. The Schadenhold will never fall. Do you hear me, Idriss? This stronghold and the men that
defend it will never be yours. The Iron Warriors on Lesser Damantyne fight for their Emperor and they
fight for me. You will taste failure and it will be your turn to return to the primarch’s wrath. Now run,
you cur. Back to your renegade fleet and take this heretic dog with you.’```my heart
open marsh
I loved how Dantioch even showed the petty spite of the Iron Warriors. Refusing to recognize Krendl as a Warsmith. Calling him "Captain" and speaking like Krendl was still under his command. Just being a rebellous little shit
summer niche
yeah he was very much an iron warrior til the end
open marsh
in my fortress. I know you keep company with traitors and stand in the shadow of the Collegia Titanica’s
god-machines. Faced with such odds, I am speaking to you for the last time. And I say to you again that
this fortress will not serve the interests of our unloving father or his renegade Warmaster. But, Captain, I
was wrong when I told you that the Schadenhold would never fall. Idriss, it will fall…’ ```petty as fuck
summer niche
i remember feeling equally pained over the death legion guy
the one who brought news from istvan
open marsh
Death Guard
summer niche
yeah death guard jesus
open marsh
Nathaniel Garro
He is still kicking and according to the HH black books, survived the war and lead a force of loyalist Death Guard
summer niche
yeah but the pain
the pain of having your brothers
brothers of hundreds of years
turncoat
open marsh
Take Barabas Dantioch, give him a bad temper, and a sailor's vocabulary
open marsh
Saul Tarviz
open marsh
Known as the "First Loyalist"
cloud kindle
yeah saul was torn i believe
and then just before the bombs dropped he fled to warn the loyalists
cloud kindle
do you know the story of rylanor
open marsh
@summer niche With Kyr Vhalen. He was ambushed by trailer Alpha Legion. They crippled his ship's cannons when they realized he wasnt a traitor (hell Kyr didnt even know their was a civil war going on)
cloud kindle
the emperors children dreadnought that has left a permanent wound on daemon fulgrims pride
open marsh
Lemme finish about Vhalen and Ill talk about Rylanor
cloud kindle
open marsh
Anyway. Vhalen's response was to basically grab the controls of his ship himself and hit the thrusters to full ramming speed. Catching the Alpha Legion off guard. They barely managed to dodge a deathblow....only to see Vhalen's ship banking around for another ramming run.
He then lead the defense of the world, but was driven off. Tho, in typical IW defense tactics fashion, making damn sure that the enemy lost more than they gained.
summer niche
cause i've read like 28 or 30 horus heresy books
in chronoogical order
i kinda burned out
after taht
summer niche
oh you don't have to post them friendo
open marsh
@summer niche Anyway, Rylanor. He was friends with Saul Tarviz. Rylanor managed to get to a bunker and surviving the orbital bombing. He tried to get aboard a Thunderhawk to escape, but the bunker caved in and a life bomb fell in, but didnt explode. Later some traitor EC found him, and attacked, damaging his leg and making escape completely impossible. Trapping him on the planet.
But he had a plan. He rigged the EC's sonic weapons to act as a beacon. A lure. And then rigged the virus bomb with a detonator.
Some traitor Tsons heard the beacon thousands of years later and went to investigate. They found Rylanor. Then Fulgrim also finally showed up. Rylanor tried to detonate the bomb, but the Tsons used their powers to slow the explosion down in time. Fulgrim tried to corrupt Rylanor, but Rylanor rejected him on the spot. Rylanor's pride and loyalty moved the Tsons, who tend decided to let the explosion go off
summer niche
that sounds familiar
lmao
that last part though
"dang what acool guy. fuck fulgrim i guess"
cloud kindle
yup
open marsh
Pretty much
Rylanor was such a chad that he made traitors from another legion turn loyal again
summer niche
does anyone actually like fulgrim? not even fulgrim seems to like fulgrim in the last stages before he gets possessed
cloud kindle
sec let me get the excerpt
open marsh
'Never! All we have left between us is that we will die together!' roared the Dreadnought, the upper portion of his carapace burning with blue flames. 'I am Rylanor of the Emperor's Children, Ancient of Rites, Venerable of the Palatine Host, and proud servant of the Emperor of Mankind, Beloved by all! I reject you now and always!'
open marsh
cloud kindle
Fulgrim laughed and said, 'I'm sorry, did it sound like I was offering you a choice?'
The primarch wrenched his hand from Rylanor's sarcophagus, dragging a sopping mass of fluid and matter with him. Glutinous ropes dripped from his fingers; he was like a midwife holding a mewling newborn. Ruptured cables spilled amniotic fluid so stagnant it must surely have been poisoning Rylanor with every passing second.
'I will remake you, brother,' said Fulgrim. 'You will be my crowning achievement.'
Though his body was little more than rags of wet meat, Vistario sensed Rylanor's horror at the last violation. An inescapable destiny where he would become what he hated most.
+What do we do?+
The question was Murshid's and the connection between the Thousand Sons was so strong that Athanaean's perception for emotion spread to all three of them.
Vistario felt Fulgrim's infinite malice, his cruel enjoyment of Rylanor's anguish and the helplessness of the Thousand Sons. The primarch of the Emperor's Children revelled in his overwhelming pride, a trait Magnus had more than once told Vistario had been present long before his fall.
But more than anything, stronger even than Fulgrim's spite, Vistario felt Rylanor's pride and honour, the unbending core of greatness that had set him against his brothers and had seen him descend into obsessive madness beneath the surface of a dead world.
Vistario took the measure of Fulgrim, seeing nothing worthy in him.
His warriors felt the moment his decision was made.
+Primarch Fulgrim!+ sent Vistario. +Rylanor deserves better than you.+
The primarch looked up, his once bright eyes now black and filled with the darkest poison.
+He deserves better than all of us.+
He raised his bolter and fired a mass-reactive into the back of Akhtar's skull. The Raptora's head exploded and with his death, the psychic force holding back the warhead's detonation ended.
Vistario saw fire.
And once more, all life burned.
summer niche
ohh athaneans was there
open marsh
Yeah
open marsh
And Rylanor turned them loyal again with pure chad energy
cloud kindle
and no one in the imperium will remember rylanor
though the one person that will is fulgrim
open marsh
and no one in the imperium will remember rylanor
It matters not. Loyalty is its own reward
open marsh
Fulgrim damn sure isnt going to forget. The event permanently scarred his soul
cloud kindle
at the peak of his power and perfection he was rejected by one of his own sons
summer niche
is fulgrim even fulgrim at this point?
open marsh
Probably not
summer niche
he was possessed after all
open marsh
There is a clone that seems to have gotten Fulgrim's actual soul
cloud kindle
thats what clone fulgrim is for dw
summer niche
and got ttrapped inside his own soul or some shit right?
ohhh yeah
bile made a clone
lmao
we've talked about this
open marsh
Also I want this to happen
cloud kindle
fuck thats going to wrap rowboaty girlymans head for a spin
summer niche
the super loyal clone
cloud kindle
i FUCKING WANT THAT TO HAPPEN NOW
fulgrim attempting to sway some poor bastards
suddenly legion of the damned appears and a ghostly voice is hear
We reject you now and always
open marsh
Total. Fuckin. Boner.
cloud kindle
and just for extra fuck you fulgrim points
open marsh
A LotD unit made up completely of loyalist EC
cloud kindle
he is the one to banish fulgrim back into the warp
cloud kindle
and have the thousand sons show up as well
all im saying is i want to say fuck you to fulgrim in the biggest way possible
open marsh
They popped up in the webway to help Big E fight daemons
open marsh
Already on it
He didn’t speak. He didn’t look at any of His warriors. The sword came down. The webway caught fire.
<...>
Shapes raged in the flames – shadows and suggestions doing battle with the daemons, their fiery forms indistinct and ever-changing. The fire-born avatars of fallen Ten Thousand, knee-deep in psychic fire and thrusting with lances of flame. The silhouettes of Space Marines, the betrayed dead of Isstvan bearing axes and blades and claws; half-seen sigils of slaughtered Legions obscured by the ash of their blackened armour. A giant among giants, its great hands bared and ready as it seared forwards at the crest of the tidal fire. The tenth son of a dying empire, so briefly reborn in his father’s immolating wrath.```fucking quickdraw over here
open marsh
Yeah. I used to overlook this passage, until I noticed that it just says "Isstvan" not "Isstvan V"
The loyalists from the traitor legions were the first betrayed, on Isstvan III
summer niche
actually bringing tears to my eyes
people always joke about how ridiculous and grim warhammer is
but the actuall biggest part of 40k is and will always be camraderie
cloud kindle
i want loyalist fulgrim out of the pokeball
trazyins teleports onto the macragges honour and is like sup girlyman got a gift for you
pop
alright have fun!
austere ridge
fulgrim 2 i choose youuu!!!
summer niche
ye
i honestly don't mind tropes and mcguffins
aslong as they're fun or really well written
open marsh
Im getting an excerpt of a Horus Heresy-era Ultramarine, whose soul awakens to protect his successor in M41. And joins the Legion of the Damned
cloud kindle
i know of the one
it was ummmmmmmmm
whats the other major ultramarine
that isnt sicarius
open marsh
Uriel Ventris
open marsh
For context, Uriel Ventris and gang have traveled to Calth, to the tomb of Remus Ventanus to recover a McGuffin artefact they need. With the Iron Warriors after them too
Iron Warriors are kicking their asses, when suddenly the LoTD show up:
A dozen shapes moved in the upper reaches of the tomb, obscured by the strange mist, yet with the unmistakable broad-shouldered bulk of Astartes. Uriel’s first thought was that these were Ultramarines reinforcements, but these half-glimpsed warriors were armoured in sable black ceramite, their plates bedecked in shimmering images of bones and skulls. The blue haze of the dome’s light made it hard to be certain, but Uriel swore that ethereal fire crackled around the feet of these warriors as they marched with funereal slowness down the tiered steps towards the battle.
Their guns fired again, hurling blazing comets from their barrels and leaving bright contrails in their wake. Each shot saw an Iron Warrior slain, and Uriel’s heart leapt as the tide of the battle had suddenly changed. The enemy were taken by surprise, but they still had the edge in numbers. The outcome of the battle now hung on a knife-edge. All it needed was a push to tip it over.```Honsou kicks Uriel's ass and is about to finish him off. When Remus finally decided to wake up and hop his ghosted ass out of his tomb
It fired once, and Honsou raised a warding arm as he was punched from his feet by the enormous impact. He slammed into the ground and skidded over onto his side. Blood poured from a great gouge torn in his chest. Uriel tried to get to his feet, but the pain was too great. The giant figure reached down and Uriel felt the heat of its nearness, as though the flames slowly appearing on the plates of his armour were those that had escaped the inferno raging within his flesh.
Uriel looked into the visor of this giant, seeing an azure light burning there that spoke of ancient heroism and noble deeds of valour beyond anything Uriel could comprehend. This warrior was unlike the others that had come to their aid, for his armour retained traces of its former allegiance, gold trims, a pale eagle on the shoulder and a faded, barely legible, inverted omega symbol. In the centre of the “U” was the symbol for a captain, but it was old, ancient even, a standard of rank insignia that had not been used for ten thousand years.
“It’s you, isn’t it?” said Uriel. “I mean…”```Remus tells Uriel what he needs to know and gives him the artefact. Uriel gets up and notices the shooting has stopped
He turned back to the giant warrior, and wasn’t surprised to find him gone.```the biggest crime in 40k is that honsou is still alive
open marsh
I am just interested in this part because I find it ends the debate of just what the Legion of the Damned are
Since we see the soul of Remus join them
With his armour turning black and his Ultramarine emblem fading
cloud kindle
seriously honsou needs to be sent to a humonculous to be made into a stress ball
off topic but i cant wait to see rylanor in TTS
open marsh
I can because I hate TTS
They meant well. But people take TTS memes as canon
And it gets frustrating
cloud kindle
those are just memers
royal herald
TTS is about as appropriate to treat as canon as like half of the actual novels
cloud kindle
i just want to see kitten beat the void dragon in a card game
open marsh
TTS is about as appropriate to treat as canon as like half of the actual novels
^ example of a memer
royal herald
yes
cloud kindle
some novels are trash
royal herald
but also 40k is so full of retcons and horseshit that I can't imagine taking anyone seriously on either side of "whats canon"
open marsh
You'd be surprised what few contradiction there are if you actually bother to read the novels, instead of getting lore from memes and salty boyos rants on Discord
royal herald
I mean more like, tone changes and the like
different writers have different visions on what is grimdark enough, and how successful the protagonists of a novel can be, and how powerful a given antagonist should be
open marsh
Most of the time. When people in the fandom rreeee about "retcons" it's not an actual retcon. It's something that conflicts with their own headcanon
royal herald
and the massive inconsistencies from that make it difficult to take anyone seriously who is going on about "mah canon"
coarse mirage
I expect it from a franchise that's like 30 years old and written by dozens of people.
restive turtle
It isn't super unusual. Star Wars Legends also had its fair share of inconsistencies due to its age. And they did world building slightly different.
plucky moth
I mean there are a lot of cannons
placid timber
But like a fucking timeline of any events doesnt really hold up
open marsh
Also cannon in 40k doesnt really exsist
Everything is canon, not everything is true.
placid timber
Lutin made a good video on it. It all has to do with how time works and how the imperial clock and calander system is a fucking shambled lie and events recorded dont have real times slapped on them
Sure a small event or battle happened, but when did it TRUELY happen nobody really knows
Im not even touching upon how warp travel further complicates that
That just makes it even worse
open marsh
Canon: [event was marked at happening on "x" date]
Truth: [recorders were using their local time]
placid timber
Time is essentially irrelevant in 40k and it takes the finer details of cannon with it lol
placid timber
Canon: [event was marked at happening on "x" date]
Truth: [recorders were using...
EXACTLY
open marsh
Canon: [The Minotaurs have unknown geneseed source. Possibly chimeric]
Truth: [There have been 2 chapters of Minotaurs. 1 Chimeric, 1 Iron Warriors]
placid timber
The science of time as we know it now basically is a fucking myth we made up to help out our monkey brains grapple with the fact we cant record time on a interplanetary scale, let alone barely on a planetary scale
Legit, time on mars moves and would be recorded different then time on earth and the two would never link up properly
If we applied our current recording of time to the situation
open marsh
The chronostrife was cooked up by GW so they could claim its still really M41 (somewhere), since that was the last pretty much confirmed accurate date before the galaxy was split in two and the timey-wimey ball got all jimmyjumbled.
Also so they could justify the Ultramarines being everywere at once. Because apparently they are the only chapter the exists -_-
placid timber
We havent even talked about how warp travel complicates it further lmao
You could tell some one "hey im on my way" and fucking end up there a week before you sent that message
Or 500 years later
Who the fuck knows
storm jungle
Sheesh what a mess
placid timber
Yup
storm jungle
Its still pretty dumb imo
but its a good plot device + excuse to make up anything you want basically
open marsh
"GW. why is everyone now Marneus Calgar?"
GW: "Chronostrife"
storm jungle
A good example of writing
open marsh
it sure is a writing I have seen
Im memeing, obvs. But it does annoy me that the Ultramarines are bloody everywhere. Especially in places they have no business being. Like Vigilus. When thats on the far side of the galaxy.
They could use a Ultramarine successor. One whose territory is near there, sure. That would be fine.
But nope. Ultramarines. Also lead by Marneus Calgar.
Not like he has any responsibilities in Ultramar
barren tapir
With how spread they are, and how numerous they are it come to mind the idea that they aren't really strict about following the codex astartes... After all they should have max 1000 SM
open marsh
yup
Its like. Whats the point of having even successor chapters, if you are just going to have the Ultramarines everywhere at once?
Like, where is the Genesis Chapter? Anyone remember them?
storm jungle
Its like. Whats the point of having even successor chapters, if you are just goi...
To die in the lore-excerpts of other factions.
gaunt vector
dies in unnamed character
rotund siren
drinking their ultramartinis
open marsh
in b4 the Custodes are replaced with Ultramarines
Who had been secretly stationed in the Imperial Palace all alone
storm jungle
AAAA-
rotund siren
worst nightmare
storm jungle
open marsh
"Ultramarines did it" is even lazier
storm jungle
They have, otherwise the fandom would tear them apart more than they already do
But im not an expert so my best guess is its mostly pyrric losses unless medic pops in later to give more info on that.
gaunt vector
fair enough
cerulean wagon
they lost some which were retroactivley made into lesser losses or grand scope victories
like that time they released the nighbringer, then it turned out it was just a fragment so they beat it
plucky moth
really where they lost was being made completely blue
gaunt vector
yeah
plucky moth
hot wheels lookin' bastards
gaunt vector
When and Why did GW decide to become Ultramarines fans?
they have other legions and 1st founding chapters
storm jungle
I think its because blue is an eye-catching color? So that makes it great for marketing.
open marsh
have the Ultramarines chapter ever outright lost a war?
The Horus Heresy-era Ultramarines that Trayzn set loose on Cadia.
But everyone took the L at Cadia
plucky moth
I think its because blue is an eye-catching color? So that makes it great for ma...
it's so tacky though
gaunt vector
The Horus Heresy-era Ultramarines that Trayzn set loose on Cadia.
yeah. that was a plothammer not a loss by them just being outdone
plucky moth
if they went with like, a super deep royal/navy blue then I could maybe vibe with it
potent swift
I think it's because they're as close to bog-standard as Marines get
storm jungle
Its the same reason why they changed the logo so it only matches them too lol
potent swift
We'd have a very different 40K if, say, the Flesh Tearers were the posterboys for the Astartes
open marsh
I think it's because they're as close to bog-standard as Marines get
I dont mind them being poster boys. I just hate them being used in everything. Its like. Dudes. You have 60%+ of all successor chapters. Just use them. Stop with the "Ultramarines are all the way on the far side of the galaxy" when that aint their turf.
storm jungle
Yeah you cant sell them to kids sadly
plucky moth
sure you can
plucky moth
nurgle models are just a social engineering tool so kids know what happens when they don't wash their hands
potent swift
Gotta love that fly arm
storm jungle
I dont mind them being poster boys. I just hate them being used in everything. I...
And yeah this is the main issue for me too, ultramarines are neat but holy fuck they really make it look like they're the only marines that exists in 40k. It actually makes me hate them as a chapter and i dont want that.
plucky moth
plucky moth
SCREM
storm jungle
@shell pebble you ruined it
cerulean wagon
And yeah this is the main issue for me too, ultramarines are neat but holy fuck ...
their concept is neat, their handling is not
shell pebble
Moom
cerulean wagon
as is the poster boi curse
open marsh
And yeah this is the main issue for me too, ultramarines are neat but holy fuck ...
I dont let anyone get away with it either. When the Dark Angels 9e codex suppelement came out and it said that the DA have a recruitment world on the edges of Tau territory. I was like "Hold the fuck up" that shit is on the far side of the galaxy....so no. Thats dumb
potent swift
And yeah this is the main issue for me too, ultramarines are neat but holy fuck ...
I still remember when the... Rievers? (I don't know, the covert ops not!scouts) that got released a while back and they had them be Ultramarines too despite Raven Guard existing.
storm jungle
Yep thats them!
And yeah thats another deal
Literally any task a tactical marine can do; they split it up
open marsh
I still remember when the... Rievers? (I don't know, the covert ops not!scouts) ...
Oh I have a laundry list of problems with Rievers. First up: FUCK THEM FOR WEARING SKULL HELMETS. THATS THE CHAPLINS THING! THEY HAVENT THE RIGHT TO WEAR THAT
storm jungle
And it scares their enemies apparently?
Like...what?
Im half sure it also stole the howling banshee thing of sonic screams iirc
cerulean wagon
they did ye dilara
storm jungle
faaaaaaack
storm jungle
lmao
thats what I mean, tactical marines were.... uh you know; tactical?
Now its:
Heavy gunner duty? Make a unit for that
Plasma weapons? Make a unit for that
Sniper duty? Make a unit for that
Close quarters? Make a unit for that
cerulean wagon
i miss tacticals cause it fits the idea of SM so much better
Theres not a lot of em left so they are all multitools
they can do any task they are put too, with a very set amount of specialists
storm jungle
I miss when the seperate units for marines were things that actually required a different sect of knowledge.
Like you know, piloting vehicles and such.
Not handling a bolter but with a longer barrel lol
open marsh
Something like this was pointed out in the newest Dawn of War novel
cerulean wagon
i think part of it is to make it easier to SM players heads hurt less
point costs for weapons? thats hard
just make unique squads for each weapon
open marsh
A tactical marine picks up and uses a Bolt Rifle with no issue and it confuses a primaris, because the firstborn guy had never been trained on the bolt rifle
storm jungle
A tactical marine picks up and uses a Bolt Rifle with no issue and it confuses a...
LOL
Wow thats just.... yeah
odd sparrow
,,,
potent swift
That's actually hilarious
open marsh
I just figure that Primaris are trained more through hypnoindoctrination, instead of actual traditional training.
storm jungle
Its like a soldier irl seeing a civilian pick up a pistol and going:
"How did you do that?"
"It... has a trigger doesnt it."
potent swift
Next your gonna get Primaris losing it when he sees a Devestator squad wielding 3 different kinds of heavy weapon.
cerulean wagon
primaris having actual breakdowns when they see firstborn fighting
"what do you mean that squad is using plasma, bolters AND flamers?!"
open marsh
gives Primaris a combi-plasma
The Primaris has a mental breakdown
potent swift
That reminds me, there is no actual 'all-flamer' Primaris yet is there?
summer niche
Man primaris is the dumbest crap
storm jungle
Lmao, you said it Deyj
summer niche
Have they shown the chaos sm variants?
storm jungle
Not yet but we're all sure its gonna happen soon
cerulean wagon
we'll get em eventually
atm its just "they cant be tainted and when they do they are killed by their watchers"
open marsh
Fabius Bile has been collecting Primaris Geneseed, and now he knows a bit about the Custodes process
storm jungle
Hm hes a good and smart lad
shell pebble
I kinda dont want Chaos Marines primaris tbh
Do something else with daemon magic or heretek stuff idk
shell pebble
No
cerulean wagon
you mean like
do death guard
for the other factions
which is 100% what they should do
potent swift
I can't wait for the salt when Calgar punches Abbadon's head off only for Fabulous Billy to Rubicon him into Chaos Primaris Abbadon
shell pebble
Sure, but also do something with hereteks for some factions like Iron Warriors
open marsh
do death guard
Death Guard have been collecting primaris geneseed too
storm jungle
I can't wait for the salt when Calgar punches Abbadon's head off only for Fabulo...
I fucking hate how GW would do that
im not even memeing
storm jungle
Yup
storm jungle
Oh yeah remember the Silent King?
potent swift
They'd do it to the silent king
Don't forget Vect, once the Haemonculi remember there supposed to the top tier bio-tinkerers, their gonna turn him into Captain Commorragh
summer niche
storm jungle
shell pebble
Watch them kill Vect and the Haemonculi suddenly forget how to revive him
storm jungle
Vect is the only person i excuse
hes the same guy that allegedly had himself killed so he can rise at his own funeral, make his goons kill his underling archons, resurrect them AND go "you assholes belong to me now"
shell pebble
Plans within plans
storm jungle
yeah its great lmao
vect i think might be the only person in 40k who's bullshit you accept
summer niche
Truf
shell pebble
I wonder how there isnt a Vect/Thousand Sons thing yet considering how much planning they both do
potent swift
I've always headcanon'd it that the only reason the Haemonculi don't make a better Space Marine for the DE is because they're all too artsy to do something that derivative. Honestly, there's already like four different iterations of marine out there, no true artist would be caught dead making a fifth.
shell pebble
I dunno why there isnt a xenos space marine like in Tau or Dark Eldar ranks
potent swift
I dunno why there isnt a xenos space marine like in Tau or Dark Eldar ranks
But Tau kinda do though? Like I know the Ethereal have straight up pillar man looking bodyguards and I'm pretty sure that's not normal for fire caste.
shell pebble
Ive heard the tau do take in humans into their ranks, but the fact that there's no official model(s) boggles my mind considering its GW we're talking about
Plus considering there's renegade space marines, there must be at least a few of those defectors that have joined other sides for various reasons
potent swift
You'd think so but renegades marines always go Chaos. Then again, it would really grind my gears if Gdubs started releasing Marine models for Xenos factions.
summer niche
Marines just hate xenos too much
shell pebble
I also hate that almost all renegades just somehow equal chaos
shell pebble
Why cant there be pirate/true neutral space marines?
Not aligned with anyone and just doing their own thing?
shell pebble
Undivided tend to do it out of spite for the Imperium and for the Chaos Gods in general
potent swift
That actually reminds me, aren't there pirate Eldar who aren't Drukhari? I'm pretty sure that's a thing
summer niche
Corsairs
I believe they go by
Free spirits
That don't follow aspects
A lot of them fall eventually though from what I remember
Into becoming DE that is
storm jungle
I dunno why there isnt a xenos space marine like in Tau or Dark Eldar ranks
Dark Eldar are all about speed attacks and moving around constantly, they already got pain engines that act as their heavies/counters to more sturdy opponents most of the time
storm jungle
Why cant there be pirate/true neutral space marines?
Because GW is lazy and we cant have nice things, renegade and actually NOT chaos marines rarely appear in some books but other than that they arent ever mentioned again
I hate it too
placid timber
Ngl
Rogue traders as a faction might fit the whole space pirate thing or at least allow you to build them as
open marsh
Why cant there be pirate/true neutral space marines?
There are
storm jungle
Yeah but like i said they're few and far between
i dont blame them for thinking they dont exist
storm jungle
open marsh
Fun fact. Many Fallen Dark Angels are this. They were never Chaos followers and either fight the Imperium in revenge for Caliban. Or just try and fight to keep from getting strapped to a Dark Angels repenting table
The Fallen are probably the largest non-Chaos renegade force in the galaxy.
Granted some ARE full on Chaos. But AFAIK, the other Fallen don't like those guys
shell pebble
I barely know much of the fallen other than Raven Guard dont like talking about them
Ive only really learned of them via memes
open marsh
Dark Angels. Not Raven Guard
open marsh
Basically, during the Horus Heresy. Some Dark Angels decided they didn't like the Imperium and secretly started a sort of 2nd Dark Angels legion on the homeworld of Caliban. Seeking to succeed from the Imperium
open marsh
After the Horus Heresy, the Lion and the Dark Angels returned to Caliban. Only for this 2nd legion to open fire on them. Leading to a huge battle where the planet was destroyed and a warp rift tore open a portal in time, and flung them into the future.
open marsh
Now the Fallen pop up randomly across the galaxy, and across time
And their alignment runs the full spectrum. From Fallen who realize they were tricked and were still loyal to the Imperium; Fallen who hate the Imperium and seek revenge for the destruction of Caliban; full on Chaos worshippers
Granted. The Dark Angels see little difference in any of these.
Traitor is traitor
open marsh
You are welcome
Also fun note. If a captured Fallen quickly confesses to their crime and repents for it (such as by telling the Dark Angels were they can find more Fallen), the Dark Angels won't torture them.
They will painlessly execute them and bury them with the honours of a loyal battle-brother
shell pebble
Sounds like a rock and a hard place for them tbh
open marsh
Oh yeah. They fucked no matter what way you look at it
But either dying in combat, or repenting, are the least bad options
summer niche
Lal because of that guy with sm lust
open marsh
?
summer niche
That second guy that was never made space narine
open marsh
Luther
summer niche
Yeeboi
open marsh
Still was badass enough to take down the Lion. Even if he had to chug warp juice first
Considering Lion took down greater daemons, including Keiros Fateweaver, who are pure warp juice, it says something of Luther's own abilities
summer niche
I just remember him as a shortstack with a craving for sm geneseed
open marsh
Luther had self-esteem issues. Basically he used to be the biggest dick around. He was even the leader of the Knights of the Order.
Then they found the Lion, with Luther basically taking him under his wing.
But.... Primarch. He quickly started completely outdoing Luther. And then the Emperor showed up with the 1st Legion. Which Lion was given command. And the Order was abolished.
So he went from the biggest thing around, to second fiddle at best
crisp heath
why were only the space wolves present at cadia during the 13th?
open marsh
What?
open marsh
Yeah...alot of others
crisp heath
yeah
storm jungle
I forget anyone else was there lol
storm jungle
yeah it was pretty much a "what chapters can we throw in here"
crisp heath
why was that doe? was it just super sudden?
storm jungle
Its a mix of things yeah
the only chapter i can excuse for not being there was the Blood Angels because ummm
open marsh
iron hands, templars, fists, and dark angels
The Dark Angels actually took a HARD L. They lost their entire 4th company
crisp heath
pwned
crisp heath
i liked devastation of baal
storm jungle
Same its awesome
gaunt vector
I love the BA
crisp heath
blood angles r cool
crisp heath
tru
i like how dante was so emotional about losing his serf
that was my favorite part
open marsh
Blood Angels are massively overblown to me. I'm not a fan of vampires in much of anything
potent swift
the only chapter i can excuse for not being there was the Blood Angels because u...
What? They sent 4 companies
storm jungle
I cant even remember lol
storm jungle
Blood Angels are massively overblown to me. I'm not a fan of vampires in much of...
False but I understand.
🦇
open marsh
Fun fact. There is a chapter of Blood Angels who used to think they were Ultramarines
crisp heath
LOL
potent swift
As far as I can tell, the only OG Chapter to not be at Cadia were the Raven Guard
crisp heath
I just imagine them being super super irritable from the red thirst but having no idea why they feel so weird
open marsh
I just imagine them being super super irritable from the red thirst but having n...
That's basically what happened
They had Astartes going insane or mutating and had 0 idea why
crisp heath
ohmygod based
open marsh
It wasn't until Asteroth sensed the Black Rage in them that it was revealed they were Blood Angels
potent swift
Fun fact. There is a chapter of Blood Angels who used to think they were Ultrama...
The Carmine Blades
crisp heath
Astaroth is based
open marsh
The Carmine Blades
Yup
potent swift
"Man, who are we descended from?"
"No clue, Ultramarines I guess?"
open marsh
So when people say the Silver Skulls cant be Iron Warriors, because they are listed as Ultramarines, I point to these guys
open marsh
Shut up, Leandros. Noone likes you
potent swift
Man, I wonder who these guys could possibly hail from?
crisp heath
forever screaming
open marsh
Man, I wonder who these guys could *possibly* hail from?
That was after they were revealed to be Blood Angels
We dont know what they looked like when they thought they were Ultramarines
...actually
potent swift
That was after they were revealed to be Blood Angels
I figured, but it's funnier to imagine it this way
open marsh
I figured, but it's funnier to imagine it this way
Thinking about it....they probably did still look like that
The Silver Skulls look like this. "We totally arent Iron Warriors, we swear!"
Inquisitor: "So....what is your specialization?"
Silver Skulls: "Siege warfare. Why?"
summer niche
sniffs
crisp heath
bros
reading about cursed founding
cool chapters there
8th edition codex art was from a chapter no one knows about!? cool
open marsh
reading about cursed founding
Note on the Cursed Founding: The "Minotaurs" listed in that founding are actually the 2nd Chapter called the "Minotaurs"
crisp heath
i gotta find out about those dicks
apparently they nearly wiped out the lamenters at some point 😠
hell yes
open marsh
I wish 1d4chan was still up. Their info on it. Memes aside. was actually more accurate than the wiki or lexicanum
crisp heath
spiky boys
crisp heath
I wish 1d4chan was still up. Their info on it. Memes aside. was actually more ac...
i fully agree
open marsh
apparently they nearly wiped out the lamenters at some point 😠
They saved the Lamenters from damnation
crisp heath
There were a lot of innacuracies for the sake of jokes, but i feel anyone with a brain could decipher that
open marsh
You'd be surprised
shell pebble
Like some pages dont work but the main page does
open marsh
Oh 1d4chan, I missed you
open marsh
But yeah, these guys are the Cursed Founding/Chimeric Geneseed Minotaurs
summer niche
looks like some autist got smoted and built a bot to reduce 1d4chan to dust
happens sometimes on the boards too
summer niche
certain vg threads just get spammed
open marsh
These guys are actually a secret 2nd Founding/Iron Warriors boyos
summer niche
to oblivion by bots
open marsh
looks like some autist got smoted and built a bot to reduce 1d4chan to dust
Probably. There are alot of autists on 1d4chan. Saw 1 guy have a break down. Claiming that the Grey Knight's geneseed isnt made from Big E's genecode because he just "didnt believe it"
even tho every single piece of GK lore reinforces that they do
crisp heath
The guy i play with on TTS said that to me
He was just like "no thats not true"
and i was like "but.... it is"
and he got real mad at me
shell pebble
It takes a strong man to deny whats right in front of him
crisp heath
i mean yeah it dont really make much sense but still
crisp heath
It takes a strong man to deny whats right in front of him
i see it as the weakest thing one can do
cowardly
summer niche
yeah, but it takes a particular kind of spiteful bastard to ruin a whole website over retarded internet arguments
crisp heath
LOL
open marsh
i mean yeah it dont really make much sense but still
I never understood how it didnt make sense....Big E modified his genecode to make the Primarchs, then modified their genecodes to make the Astartes.
What would be stopping him from cutting the middle man and making geneseed from his own genecode
summer niche
GW
crisp heath
oh
summer niche
😄
open marsh
Thats not what I mean
shell pebble
Fuck now that I think of it
Why havent they actually tried cloning the emperor himself?
Like there's already tech for it
crisp heath
Werent the original Grey Knights all from different chapters?
open marsh
The original Grand Masters of the Grey Knights didnt use the Big E's geneseed. They had their own from their original legions
But everyone after these used Big E's geneseed. The fortress-monestary on Titan was stocked with it when they arrived
potent swift
Why havent they actually tried cloning the emperor himself?
Probably the same reason the only person to ever clone a Primarch was Fabulous Billy, it's probably a lot harder than cloning a bog standard human.
crisp heath
Oh okay okay dat makes sense
crisp heath
Probably the same reason the only person to ever clone a Primarch was Fabulous B...
I would imagine cloning the universe's most powerful psyker would be even harder than a primarch
open marsh
Why havent they actually tried cloning the emperor himself?
Fabus Bile wants too. But otherwise. its heresy. Because good fucking luck getting a sample of Big E's unmodified genecode
crisp heath
Fabulous Bill tried cloning Horus a bunch of times if I remember correctly
storm jungle
Wasnt the entire emperor gene-seed thing just to make the Grey Knights look cool at first.
crisp heath
and the best clone was still completely insane
shell pebble
Well they are his sons so just take their own geneseed then go backwards with it lmao
Ez peasy
crisp heath
Wasnt the entire emperor gene-seed thing just to make the Grey Knights look cool...
Probably. It was Ward's writing and one of his favorite chapters
storm jungle
Yeah i didnt want to assume
crisp heath
Doesn't make it not canon though
open marsh
Wasnt the entire emperor gene-seed thing just to make the Grey Knights look cool...
It was to make them uncorruptable. Basically they are a kind of "daemon prince" of Big E.
open marsh
Eh. Just to make them a dedicated Anti-Chaos force
summer niche
isn't it the whole possession expulsion thing that makes em immune?
open marsh
Im talking about in reality. This was back when GW actually cared to have lore explainations for why some factions are the way they are
Instead of "because reasons"
storm jungle
open marsh
Why are Grey Knights incorruptable by Chaos?
"They have geneseed made from Big E's own genecode. And Big E is pretty much anti-chaos made manifest. So that was transferred to them too."
Okay cool.
Why are Primaris incorruptable by Chaos?
"Reason. Thats why. Buy the new models"
storm jungle
Seems like the same shit to me
shell pebble
Nothing would stop a primaris from just defecting tbh
austere ridge
Primaris are incorruptable?
storm jungle
one just has a better excuse
potent swift
NGL, it makes the Grey Knight's less impressive knowing that Chaos just doesn't do anything to them rather than through any effort on their part.
open marsh
Seems like the same shit to me
I dont get what your point is.
storm jungle
Likewise lol
But yeah i just find it weird how they can just get big e's geneseed all willy nilly.
open marsh
Im just pointing out that them using Big E's geneseed isnt to make them look cooler. Its to explain why they are so powerful against Chaos. Because GW wanted a dedicated anti-chaos Space Marine chapter
open marsh
They did the same again with the Exorcists. Space Marines who let themselves be possessed, then by sheer force of will, expell the daemon from them. Which also tears out much of their soul. But leaves them even harder to corrupt/possess and makes them mostly invisible to daemons
open marsh
Nope
potent swift
See, that's actually badass rather than some innate resistance
open marsh
See, that's actually badass rather than some innate resistance
To be fair, the Grey Knights were cooked up way earlier than the Exorcists
It used to be theorized that the Exorcists used GK geneseed. Because there was an offhand mention on it in the thoughts of an Ordo Malleus inquisitor in one of the fluff novels
Even tho that pretty much makes no sense. Because the GKs are all about NO TOUCHY their geneseed
coarse mirage
Probably the same reason the only person to ever clone a Primarch was Fabulous B...
ARISE CHICKEN
barren tapir
Big e geneseed being used for the GK was never confirmed though iirc, and i'm more prone to think that big e used magnus genetic code to create the GK, janus, the first GK grandmaster was also a loyal thousand son with a shard of magnus soul put into him by Malcador the Hero
open marsh
Big e geneseed being used for the GK was never confirmed though iirc, and i'm mo...
...it is confirmed tho
repeatedly
barren tapir
Also GK aren't really immune to chaos
open marsh
Also GK aren't really immune to chaos
No Gk as even been even tainted by Chaos
barren tapir
...it is confirmed tho
Really? Source? I may have missed those
open marsh
Really? Source? I may have missed those
pretty much every GK codex
barren tapir
No Gk as even been even tainted by Chaos
I never said that one had fallen though, i said they aren't incorruptible, otherwise the purifier rank wouldn't exist
barren tapir
pretty much every GK codex
Time to check then
gaunt vector
No Gk as even been even tainted by Chaos
what about the boi who went through all of the bait trials at Slaanesh's palace and made it to the Slaanesh itself before being corrupted bc u can't 1v1 a god? I thought that was a GK
open marsh
Time to check then
8e codex, pg 7
open marsh
what about the boi who went through all of the bait trials at Slaanesh's palace ...
Thats not a GK
gaunt vector
what was it?
open marsh
Thats just a fan theory that he is a GK
gaunt vector
so what unit was the marine from?
open marsh
its never said
open marsh
I never said that one had fallen though, i said they aren't incorruptible, other...
GK's are incorruptable, Purifiers take it a step farther and become anathemas
Chance of corrupting a Grey Knight = 0
Change of corrupting a Purifier = -100
summer niche
do they work like blanks?
just being disgusting to be around for things with souls?
open marsh
do they work like blanks?
Sort of. But specifically against chaos
open marsh
Its more like...anti-chaos
summer niche
not as disruptive
barren tapir
Interesting... Really interesting... I indeed missed those parts... I only know that GK can become blanks...
open marsh
sounds more useful than blanks
Anathemas are still psychic tho.
gaunt vector
seems more like they are blank to chaos but not to the warp
gaunt vector
that sounds hilariously op
hence the inquisition calling dibs
open marsh
seems more like they are blank to chaos but not to the warp
As i said, they are Anti-Chaos.
summer niche
just go full blast all day erryrday
gaunt vector
As i said, they are Anti-Chaos.
indeed
summer niche
fuck daemons yo
barren tapir
All my homie hate daemons
gaunt vector
just go full blast all day erryrday
I don't think that attitude is how u become anathema
summer niche
that's for after you become anathema!
gaunt vector
is it a position that is possible to lose?
open marsh
People who say that Grey Knights can be corrupted either dont understand the idea that something can be anti-chaos, or they just hate GKs and want to reeee bad memes
summer niche
grey knights are really cool
they just feel a bit too op to bring into anything where you are a player
cerulean wagon
hol up
summer niche
imo
open marsh
they just feel a bit too op to bring into anything where you are a player
Fun fact. The GKs are only OP against Chaos. Against anything else, they are often boned
gaunt vector
cause primarchs
I think they had A LOT more f*ckery in them than just big E genes
cerulean wagon
so its the same as primaris?
open marsh
cause primarchs
Their genes were modified, and they werent even finished development before being yeeted through the warp.
Tho some were better than others. Look at The Lion
cerulean wagon
"they just are"
gaunt vector
nah there's got to be more to it than that
with the GK its the entire point of their existance
summer niche
Fun fact. The GKs are only OP against Chaos. Against anything else, they are oft...
they're still a super elite chapter, do they really get boned?
not that they usually deploy against anything that isn't daemons though
gaunt vector
they're still a super elite chapter, do they really get boned?
Angron killed 500 of them once
barren tapir
We discover that it is not big e genes that are important, but those of chad Maclador the Hero
open marsh
cause primarchs
Like the Lion's whole schtick is his incorruptibility. As Chaos tried to corrupt him when he was still a child in the forests of Caliban. He had no concept of the Emperor, or Chaos, or anything. And it still couldnt corrupt him
summer niche
angrons a moving catastrophe doh
crisp heath
There was one time space wolves killed some gks or something
cerulean wagon
We discover that it is not big e genes that are important, but those of chad Mac...
the real power was the friends we made along the way
gaunt vector
We discover that it is not big e genes that are important, but those of chad Mac...
Because Malcador brings loyalty whereas big E brings big E behaviour? Which is just a psychic black airforces meme
crisp heath
Like the Lion's whole schtick is his incorruptibility. As Chaos tried to corrupt...
Should I read the Descent of Angels?
open marsh
Should I read the Descent of Angels?
You should read all Dark Angels fluff
summer niche
Because Malcador brings loyalty whereas big E brings big E behaviour? Which is ...
psychic black airforces meme
cerulean wagon
its written by gav and his amazing writing genious
barren tapir
There was one time space wolves killed some gks or something
Logan grimnar iirc, he killed a GK (don't remember the rank) with one swing
gaunt vector
psychic black airforces meme <:lul:825836255853674540>
so, my ppl is in a dark age.... time to 1 v 4 A DARK PANTHEON
summer niche
Big E pre golden throne is so funny to read about
gaunt vector
I sent something that was spoiler af and had to delete it but forgot how to spoiler tag it sry
barren tapir
Put everything you want to put under spoiler between || both at the start and the end
Or, if you are on pc, just select all the text you want to put under spoiler and a pop up menu should appear
barren tapir
Nice, glad to help
vagrant osprey
Even tho that pretty much makes no sense. Because the GKs are all about ***NO TO...
GK are paranoid about their geneseed because, if you look at the timeline, the GK project had already had to be scrapped in the planning stages because the Alpha Legion stole all the research and destroyed the copies the Emperor had. So they might claim they're from the Emperor, buuuut...
open marsh
GK are paranoid about their geneseed because, if you look at the timeline, the G...
Thats the Raptor Project, not the Grey Knights
vagrant osprey
Really? It wasn't the Grey Knights that were on the moon Titan?
open marsh
The Grey Knights are on titan, yes. But the Raptor Project has nothing to do with that
open marsh
?
storm jungle
coarse mirage
"they just are"
It just works
vagrant osprey
The GK claim the Emperor ordered their creation at the end of the Horus Heresy.
cloud kindle
I imagine it was malcador
vagrant osprey
But the Alpha Legion stole the Geneseed technology very early on. IIRC, before Horus even fell.
cloud kindle
Fuckin alpha legion
vagrant osprey
So even if the Emperor ordered their creation, no loyalist could possibly have fulfilled that order.
Because by then the Imperium no longer knew about Geneseed.
coarse mirage
Ah, but Cawl
vagrant osprey
Cawl spent 10,000 years researching it.
There are multiple chapters which are heavily implied to be the result of Cawl researching Geneseed, such as the Minotaurs and carcarodons.
coarse mirage
I figured he just spent that time learning how to IMPROVE space marines
and the Primaris spent a long time on Mars
Minotaurs, according to what?
vagrant osprey
The later Minotaurs? The ones without any known geneseed flaws who took over the name of an extinct chapter in a High Lord cover-up?
vagrant osprey
They're pretty damn secretive.
coarse mirage
So no apparent iteration of the Minotaurs is known in the slightest
Why would Cawl give the High Lords anything, ever?
vagrant osprey
Point is that there was a lot of time for research, and Cawl had all the research materials he wanted.
Oh, that's easy. Sanction.
coarse mirage
And the Minotaurs being any part of it has no basis in anything.
You're making it up.
Well, Cawl spent a lot of time doing that regardless.
And seemingly had access to gene-seed that nobody else had.
vagrant osprey
I'm not making things up, I'm inferring it.
Oh, yes. Like traitor legion geneseed
It's confirmed that the current Minotaurs are Iron Warriors.
coarse mirage
Yeah, making it up. THere's nothing to suggest it. You're reading into it. Minotaurs are not an experiment by Cawl, there is absolutely nothing that suggests it.
Is it?
vagrant osprey
Yes.
coarse mirage
From where is that?
coarse mirage
He's an author I take it?
open marsh
The GK claim the Emperor ordered their creation at the *end* of the Horus Heresy...
Its not a claim. We see it happen in the HH novels
coarse mirage
I'm gonna have to be a little anal about this and say that canon isn't written on Twitter.
Or wait, that looks like Facebook
open marsh
I'm gonna have to be a little anal about this and say that canon isn't written o...
Its hinted at in the IA books. Eadwine, the guy who made the chapter for the IA books, its just clarifiying what was written
coarse mirage
Its hinted at in the IA books. Eadwine, the guy who made the chapter for the IA ...
Ah alright
open marsh
Yeah, unfortunately, the IA books have them written a little too subtly. The intent was to get across that there were 2 chapters, one Chimeric, one Iron Warriors. With the Chimeric ones being the Cursed Founding ones and that they died off.
coarse mirage
In that Emperor's Legion book, a Custodes notes about the Minotaurs that they've barely restrained rage, as if constantly angry but with incredible discipline.
open marsh
But too many people dont know how to read between the lines like they wanted
so he had to clarify things
coarse mirage
Ah okay
open marsh
In that Emperor's Legion book, a Custodes notes about the Minotaurs that they've...
Yeah....thats an Iron Warrior
Like some who couldnt control their rage as well as Perturabo wanted, got exiled
Like Captain Metallos Morax
coarse mirage
What was even more fascinating is the end of the book
gonna check if I can write spoiler [spoiler]correctly[/spoiler]
Nope, I can't
coarse mirage
||sss|||
Oke
When at the end of the book ||One of the High Lords that the Minotaurs were fighting AGAINST goes up to their Chapter Master, shows their sigil, tells them something and the the CM is just "Oh okay." and leaves like there wasn't just open conflict||
That was very peculiar
Is that in line with Iron Warriors?
I don't know anything about how they are
open marsh
||Its because the Minotaurs werent actually traitors. They had been tasked with rounding up the traitors, but werent told that the High Lord of the Assassins wasnt actually a traitor. So the Minotaurs thought that the Custodes were protecting a traitor.||
coarse mirage
||But the Minotaurs appeared to have sided with the traitors and worked openly against the efforts of the loyalists. Was that just a ploy?||
open marsh
||Yes. It was. Why do you think Moloc was conveniently absent from the room when the kill order was given?||
open marsh
Not everyone had all the info
This was high level stuff. Pretty much only the Captain-General of the Custodes knew fully what was going on.
coarse mirage
Tzeentch must've been sitting there fapping furiosly to it
AAA HYES PLOTS MMMYES MORE PLOTS
Yeah I loved the Captain-General
open marsh
basically the plan was:
||Have the Astartes investigate the cultists. Use the Minotaurs to get the traitor high lords to drop their guard. Have the Minotaurs get them all in one place to make sure all the traitors were together. Then off them. However, one of the "traitors" was a double agent who was actually working to identify the traitors. The Minotaurs couldnt know of this double agent, for risk they might accidentally give away something was up. So in order to protect him, the captain-general maneuvered things so that the Custodes would be deployed to protect the double agent from the Minotaurs||
ashen zenith
what happens if you accidentally inhale an ork spore
shell pebble
I asked this once on another server and I dont think they grow inside human bodies
You wont end up with a Chest Bursting Grechin
Theorically it could
But I dont think it actually can
ashen zenith
lammmmeee but maybe it would be too op if they could
open marsh
Ork spores dont grow that fast. And your digestive system would kill it
shell pebble
Tbf they're pretty resilient
Resilient enough to grow in most conditions
Maybe its more that there's not alot of nutrients in a human body for an ork to grow
open marsh
Resilient enough to grow in most conditions
Not enough to survive an extended bath in hydrochloric acid
shell pebble
Ehhh these things survive in volcanic planets and such
Even the void of space
At least apparently
They could most definitely survive low pH
Id say they cant survive because there's not alot of nutrients to really get a hold of
On top of the fact that he said inhale a spore, not swallow
open marsh
On top of the fact that he said inhale a spore, not swallow
Fair