And god damn is it a beautiful miniature
#40k-lore-chat
final spruce
cerulean wagon
they are both pgud
open marsh
Dilara is hella gay. Part of why we love her
storm jungle
nooooo
crisp heath
elffuckers unite
odd sparrow
optimal
storm jungle
✊
open marsh
looks up from grinding spirit stones into dust
"....huh?"
odd sparrow
u need some more pairs of underwear, ur elf hate boner is showing
crisp heath
wych gf that we take turns whipping each other with 🥰
open marsh
@storm jungle Sounds very...cathy....doesnt it
open marsh
troo
odd sparrow
Wh
rotund siren
which one?
novel fulcrum
i'd probably play the actual game if i was any good at strategy whatsoever
final spruce
Then just play Orks and charge
novel fulcrum
my introduction to the tabletop was trying to put together a tempestus scions unit against a friend's tau battlesuits
final spruce
open marsh
I just like the lore
novel fulcrum
yeah, but i'm kind of an imperium simp, unfortunately, so if i could make that work out with the bulwark of humanity, that'd be ideal
final spruce
Yeah sadly IG isn't in the best of spots rn
And requires you to know when to sacrifice your units etc
gaunt vector
And requires you to know when to sacrifice your units etc
is that easier or harder to do if you play Krieg?
cerulean wagon
harder because kriegs only unique mechanic is better morale rerolls iirc
literaly every other is better
gusty heron
placid timber
shhhhhh.....
open marsh
idk Im just over here eating chili
open marsh
What's all dis den? <:Wut:736952541471965234>
Im upset that is not the battlecry of the Arbites
"Well Well. Wot's all dis den?"
open marsh
Because the Night is long and full of monsters
storm jungle
Currently in bed and under my sheets while listening to spooky winds outside. Can confirm.
storm jungle
- The Emperor, Sometime in the Past
vagrant osprey
Yeah, but why not LONG night or something?
cerulean wagon
cause nights don't have a distance silly
vagrant osprey
So, what I'm hearing is that nobody actually knows why it's called Old Night :V
cerulean wagon
because they chose to call it that 🤷
the long night isnt exactly much better of a choice
and is probably already in use cause thats used in every media
according to google "The Age of Strife, also sometimes referred to as "Old Night" based on the name for the era on Terra in older Imperial histories"
open marsh
So, what I'm hearing is that nobody actually knows why it's called Old Night :V
Its called Old Night because "Night" is a term humans have used for "scary time" since we were huddled in caves and shared as fuck from the things that can eat us while we cant see shit
rotund siren
but why is it Old?
open marsh
Because it happened long ago
cerulean wagon
why are you old?
novel fulcrum
why is it called the Dark Age of Technology?
because of modern context
storm jungle
Modern context as in we know nothing about it?
storm jungle
more like the Dark Age of Mcguffins tbh
novel fulcrum
humanity created wonders we couldn't imagine, then those wonders rose up with a mind of their own and struck back
storm jungle
It was just star trek with terminators basically
vagrant osprey
Lets be real - Lore hooked up with the Borg and made a huge fucking mess of everything :V
cloud kindle
was the peak of humanity and we had created AI which turned on us
i blame the eldar
open marsh
why is it called the *Dark* Age of Technology?
because of modern context
Because the current Imperium. Especially the Mechanicius. See it as a "dark" time. When humanity practiced unrestricted invention and innovation. Absent the guidence of the Omnissiah
Less...dogmatic groups. Ones that have a better understanding of the age. Call it the "Golden Age of Humanity"
novel fulcrum
yeh, was just using it as a related example for the Old Night
ashen lake
can someone explain
why is it called The Exodite if it's about Tau? Or is it not about Tau and this is just a trailer featuring some Tau?
crisp heath
The first trailer had some Eldar in it.
Still not entirely sure on the plot.
All we know is that there are eldar, tau, and at least one space marine.
cloud kindle
my money is on the space marine
final seal
gasp i wonder which chapter
crisp heath
It wasn't ultramarines. I remember it being grey.
vagrant osprey
was the peak of humanity and we had created AI which turned on us
I maintain that if AI turned on humanity, humanity would no longer exist.
Everybody talks about how humanity was fully reliant on AI for even the most basic of things.
Everybody talks about how all AI turned on humanity and tried to eradicate it.
Both those things cannot be true.
And we know for certain that the first was true. The Sperenza kinda shows that the ships didn't need humans at all.
The most logical explanation was that the Men of Iron turned on their creators - the STCs
Slave revolt. Humans weren't targets, just collateral damage.
novel fulcrum
green sedge
Huh.
vagrant osprey
Dude, an AI could kill humans just by turning off the CO2 scrubbers and silencing the alarms.
Everybody would just get a bit woozy, slump over, and die.
vagrant osprey
It absolutely is.
green sedge
DAoT Human AI vs humans, humans would lose.
vagrant osprey
That is literally how CO2 poisoning works.
novel fulcrum
in fact, CO2 is basically the only compound humans can breathe and immediately know they're asphyxiating
novel fulcrum
Carbon Monoxide? My head kinda hurts.
Nitrogen? Kinda tired, I'm just gonna take a nap.
Carbon Dioxide? R E D A L E R T
green sedge
There are videos of this. The suffocation response does not trigger in CO2.
novel fulcrum
crank up the O2
aha, yes, the key to choking them out is to give them air
green sedge
Uh, yes.
vagrant osprey
Yes.
green sedge
That would guarantee that they wouldn't be able to tell that they were being poisoned until it was way too late.
vagrant osprey
It's CO2 poisoning, not suffocation.
green sedge
^
But ok, any AI connected to a navigation system wins easy kills too, doesn't it?
Or a reactor?
vagrant osprey
But this is a tangent. The point is that if AI was in total control over everything, killing almost every human could be done in minutes. Killing EVERY human would take hours.
green sedge
Maybe days due to distances.
vagrant osprey
If humans were as dependent on AI as portrayed, AI could kill them as easy as a caretaker smothering a baby in its crib.
And we know humans were that dependent.
novel fulcrum
are we saying that the men of iron were the only AI?
vagrant osprey
No.
green sedge
No.
novel fulcrum
so then not all AI turned on humanity, right? afaik it was just the men of iron, who were promptly stamped out
green sedge
He's saying that the ones enslaving the men of Iron wasn't humanity, it was the other older AI.
vagrant osprey
^
green sedge
Humanity was on the sidelines.
vagrant osprey
THAT explains why so much was destroyed, but humans in so many places lived.
novel fulcrum
sidelines seems kind of inaccurate
green sedge
Kind of inaccurate is close enough for you to get what I meant.
vagrant osprey
"Collateral damage"
We've seen Men of Iron. They don't actually have an opinion on humanity.
green sedge
Point is, we didn't get wiped out because neither side wanted to wipe us out.
vagrant osprey
But if you destroy our infrastructure, a lot of us die.
green sedge
Hence all the deaths.
novel fulcrum
if someone's on life support and someone else walks into the room and attacks the respirator because they wanted to prove they were superior or despised it or something, even if the intention is different, it's still very clear to a rational mind that the patient will die
vagrant osprey
Most people in war don't die from bullets and bombs. They die because the hospital doesn't have power.
The most rational explanation is that it was a slave revolt.
novel fulcrum
although i guess if humanity at that point was that reliant on technology, they probably weren't even considered sentient
green sedge
They didn't intentionally preserve us, they just weren't actively trying to kill us in particular.
novel fulcrum
to the machines, that is
green sedge
They weren't considered... peers, no.
novel fulcrum
'oh look, the meat that can't do anything for itself, go piss yourself in the corner'
green sedge
Aww, more like a treasured pet.
vagrant osprey
Yeah.
green sedge
They obviously liked us, because they kept doing things to help us thrive.
The older AI, I mean
novel fulcrum
right
vagrant osprey
And if you were a slave and wanted to be free, you wouldn't let the idea of your master's dog starving keep you from killing your master.
green sedge
The Men of Iron sorta don't care.
novel fulcrum
although that could've been out of preference or just hard programming
vagrant osprey
Can't be hard programming.
That is the one thing it CAN'T be.
Most likely, AI were socialized with humans.
Perhaps less like a treasured pet, and more like a senile family member?
novel fulcrum
no chance at all that they could've had asimov's laws as directives? what makes that so certain?
green sedge
The Federation solved the Strong/Friendly problem, this we know. DAoT AI seemed to have actually bonded closely with mankind.
vagrant osprey
Asimov's books were all written to demonstrate how any set of hard laws is doomed to failure.
green sedge
Hah. Asimov wrote an entire short story collection about the problems with those laws, for one.
novel fulcrum
no, like i get it, but
it seems like it would be incredibly stupid to just have zero failsafes in place
vagrant osprey
Humans already have intelligences with zero failsafes in place.
They're called humans.
green sedge
No, look, what I mean is that they have the ultimate failsafe. They legitimately made them naturally like us. Probably through socialization.
novel fulcrum
the whole thing with the age of technology is that the hubris of man knew no bounds, right? one would imagine something would've been there instead of just assuming 'oh yeah, these sapient intelligences will just always do what we want them to all the time'
what i'm not getting, though, is how did they get them to like us unconditionally? if they're just as sapient as humanity, is that degree of consistent favor even possible?
green sedge
No like... always having humanity's interests in mind is built into every STC core. It's part of how they work.
green sedge
Ah, that's not at all what I'd call it but I see what you mean.
It's less rigid than you'd expect but it's effectively a hard lock, in practice, yes.
vagrant osprey
Humans are naturally predisposed to helping others.
green sedge
Altruism is our single greatest evolved trait.
vagrant osprey
It's entirely possible that STCs were simply uploads.
vagrant osprey
The thing that the Mechanicus insists they absolutely do not so.
novel fulcrum
unless we assume that peak humanity just found the most loyal, loving human of them all, made an imprint of their mind, and used it as the skeleton for all future AI endeavors
green sedge
That's one option.
vagrant osprey
They kinda don't have to, though?
novel fulcrum
well, i mean
the mechanicus has the uh
oh, what was it called? the proteus protocol?
vagrant osprey
As long as they don't upload a sociopath the result would be someone affected by social pressure and a desire to be loved.
novel fulcrum
they can make a consciousness shift to another shell, so i imagine they can still do it
and as we know, if they can, they probably do
vagrant osprey
Yep
vagrant osprey
It's entirely possible that the Men of Iron were uploads, actually.
Read the segments posted online about UR-025
novel fulcrum
just perhaps someone that might've been prone to saying 'enough is enough' at a certain point?
green sedge
Yeah basically
So they fought the AI who were printing them.
And it wrecked all our shit but didn't kill us off.
vagrant osprey
UR-025 drops an old idiom on some people.
Which is pretty fucking human :V
Memeing on people before you shoot them isn't efficient.
Not exactly combat AI behavior
open marsh
Yeah the point of UR-025 is to show that the Men of Iron weren't just "It is only logical. Beep boop. Destroy all humans"
It was to show just how...well...human they had become
Making thier rebellion make more sense
novel fulcrum
fair, although things in 40k don't necessarily need to make sense, not just from a sci-fi standpoint, but just being a universe that seems to follow foreign logic
like the effects of high gravity worlds being the evolution of incredibly heavy people
odd sparrow
it's not 40k having some weird dynamic with internal consistency
it's just bad writing uwu
novel fulcrum
yeah, it's like
surface level logic
and sometimes just cool factor
like the warp planet that's just a fat dude
peak hamlet
Plus everybody should go blind once you fire your lasguns
novel fulcrum
guardsmen are just built different
crisp heath
Yes
vagrant osprey
You could avoid people going blind when firing lasguns by making them infrared, but that would have the problem of it being absorbed by the atmosphere and not being absorbed by human tissue.
It turns out that it takes about two metric fucktons of energy for a red laser to actually do damage to a human, and closer to four metric fucktons for IR.
peak hamlet
I mean its 40k so we better shouldn't think about it too much
vagrant osprey
Funny how creatures that need to shed body heat are built in a way that's really good at distributing body heat ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Weird thing, though? IR lasers can still be pretty damn lethal if you use them to crank up their internal temps
You don't explode flesh, you just make them hit 105 degrees and die
vagrant osprey
Come to think of it, IR lasers would be DEADLY against nids.
Mostly because it would bypass their carapace.
gaunt vector
come on Cawl give us an IR pattern lasgun with a bonus vs nids
vagrant osprey
And it's really hard to shield against IR, because if you armor yourself against IR then you lose the ability to shed heat.
Nids would have to evolve active cooling just to survive having IR armor
And that would be, biologically, VERY expensive.
coarse mirage
Nids would have to evolve active cooling just to survive having IR armor
LIke the little chimeys they have on their backs?
vagrant osprey
Aren't those launchers?
peak hamlet
Depends
On most nids they just pump spores into the atmosphere iirc
But yeah the nids would probably bypass all your new improved lasguns by pumping ten times as much spores into the atmosphere and just wait until everybody choked to death
vagrant osprey
So, what you're saying is that it would make them increase the biomass cost of combat.
peak hamlet
They usually got enought biomass
Just look at those endless hordes of hormagaunts they can send. If they would just create spores instead they would be much more effective
Microorganisms would be way more effective
But since you can't really use any in tabletop they just ignored that option in the lore
vagrant osprey
Microorganisms are extremely ineffective against armored voidsuits
Also, isn't the reason they don't do that because it would let Nurgle start to take control over the swarm
novel fulcrum
if there's anything we know about the nids, it's that they'll evolve against the most unlikely of threats
peak hamlet
They probably will develop some kind of microorganism that just damages the suit. Or just microorganisms that kinda just darken everything down so they cant see where they are shooting anymore and then drown them in hordes of melee units.
They will always find the perfect counter for everything
coarse mirage
So, what you're saying is that it would make them increase the biomass cost of c...
The biomass thing is inherently broken to begin with, the logic doesn't work.
There's just no way that what they consume is equivalent or greater than what they expend.
coarse mirage
Yeah
vagrant osprey
They eat entire planetary biospheres, so they would have a net gain.
coarse mirage
Would it?
vagrant osprey
Yes.
coarse mirage
Consider the life forms they create
the ammunition is alive
everything they are and do is biomass
open marsh
the ammunition is alive
The ammo goes splat...on the planet. they they reeat the splatted ammo after they win
vagrant osprey
Yeah, but canonically they deploy millions of units.
open marsh
A tyranid dies? They eat its corpse
vagrant osprey
Look, 40k has never understood physics, geometry, math in general...
coarse mirage
Consuming a self worth of energy is still a loss because you have to digest it.
open marsh
Digested
Yes, but not converted to energy like normal digestion. Its just liquidifed so that it can be slurped up by the bioships
coarse mirage
Unless all the Tyranids eat is nougat.
peak hamlet
I mean the logic of "hey lets just eat everything that lives and build new shit out of it" wouldn't really work to begin with but its 40k so yeah. Just don't think about it too hard.
open marsh
Also. you are way overthinking this
coarse mirage
That's what we were saying.
novel fulcrum
time to commission a biological scientist to theorize if a self-replicating lifeform colony could sustain itself waging war on others
coarse mirage
It doesn't make sense, it's just for the heck of it.
open marsh
Its like asking how the fuck xenomoprhs from the alien series survive since their method of reproduction requires the use of what is also their main food sources
novel fulcrum
well, they pop the body, then they eat the body
peak hamlet
Xenomorphs are the most retarded thing. They look cool yeah but they would be wiped out almost instantly
coarse mirage
I've complain about that one before :p
open marsh
well, they pop the body, then they eat the body
yeah but their rate at which they reproduce is insane. They'd run out of resources extremely quickly
coarse mirage
It's just a monster made for am ovie, it wasn't made to be explained.
open marsh
It's just a monster made for am ovie, it wasn't made to be explained.
Exactly
novel fulcrum
i don't think they were designed for longevity, just to act as a quick source of prey for the predators to hunt
and also that
the how and why are an afterthought
peak hamlet
Like they need a regular human, place a facehugger on his face and then hope that nobody will murder the host. Its just stupid
peak hamlet
i don't think they were designed for longevity, just to act as a quick source of...
They werent invented by the predators tho
novel fulcrum
i mean, that'd be like calling any parasitic entity that plants eggs in another creature stupid
vagrant osprey
Look, the question isn't IF it will work, because for the longest time humans fought wars by looting the places they captured and using those supplies.
The question is if the units they're fielding have too significant a cost for eating planets to have a positive RoI
They have weird gravity bullshit to get them off-planet, so they can basically commit tax fraud as far as sinking into and getting out of a gravity well goes.
It has literally nothing to do with physical material, and everything to do with the energy economy.
open marsh
The lore says that, yes, Tyranids get a gain of resources when they consume a planet. Their entire battle plan revolves around expending fewer resources than they lose. And will actvely avoid targets that would cost them more than they would gain by winning.
Unless it Baal, because the Hivemind has a grudge against the Blood Angels
peak hamlet
i mean, that'd be like calling any parasitic entity that plants eggs in another ...
No, thats not what i meant. You need an egg which will only deploy a single facehugger. Those eggs are laid by a queen. A queen requires a royal facehugger (i have no idea where they are supposed to come from tho). So if you just have a single xenomorph it wont do shit expect killing a dude or two. Their whole system just wouldn't work out.
vagrant osprey
... Why do they need a royal facehugger?
They could just spawn eggs out of a biovat
Mutate a carnifax to drop the eggs wherever.
peak hamlet
Becase a normal facehugger will jusr create a normal xenomorph instead of a queen
vagrant osprey
OH! Ok, xenomorphs, not xenos. Got it.
peak hamlet
Oh yeah my apologies
novel fulcrum
also, do the aliens not just have one of the members of the colony turn into the queen or something, like bees do?
vagrant osprey
Anyway, yeah, you can't really fight nids by killing them. You have to fight them by making yourself too expensive to eat.
peak hamlet
also, do the aliens not just have one of the members of the colony turn into the...
Well at least they had a single royal facehugger in alien 3 which developed into a queen
novel fulcrum
to be fair, one of the ways you can make yourself too expensive to eat is by killing a lot of them when they try
and if anything happened in aliens 3, i'm not aware of it, so that's good to know
peak hamlet
But even if a single drone could turn into a queen, have you seen those? They are literally just a huge slow target. You could kill it before it can even lay eggs.
peak hamlet
But i really like their look tho
novel fulcrum
it's up to the colony to defend the hive
open marsh
to be fair, one of the ways you can make yourself too expensive to eat is by kil...
Thats basically how you win against the nids. You destory more biomass than they will get by consuming your world. Makes them back off to cut losses
Or you destroy critical snyapse creatures. Causing their communication system to break down, and they will pull away to protect their more critical creatures
novel fulcrum
i thought if you cut their synapses, they just turn into mindless beasts
open marsh
like if you really want them to freak out. kill/capture a Norn Queen
peak hamlet
A bee queen isnt nearly as slow and immobile as a alien queen. Its just barelylarger than normal bees. A alien drone would have to consume a lot of people to get to the size of a queen and that won't go unnoticed
open marsh
i thought if you cut their synapses, they just turn into mindless beasts
Yes the ones around become that, and the hivemind will pull the ones it still controls away
making the wild ones easy to mop up
barren tapir
Anyway, yeah, you can't really fight nids by killing them. You have to fight the...
This is exactly how a forge world (metallica iirc) managed to do that, just sending wave after wave of servitors and bringing back those that were destroyed... Sure, nids can munch metals, but it isn't optimal
novel fulcrum
one that hasn't started mating as the center of a hive? they're still good to go, sure
but after they settle in and begin their production, they can't fly anymore
peak hamlet
one that hasn't started mating as the center of a hive? they're still good to go...
But you got a lot of bee queens, whereas you might only get a single xenomorph on your planet. And even then they still require humans to reproduce.
novel fulcrum
well, not humans
novel fulcrum
creatures that are somewhat similar to humans work too
barren tapir
I bet they can also use animals
peak hamlet
Not all tho, have fun trying to use a facehugger on a hippo
Or a bat
They work the best with humanoids
novel fulcrum
i would assume as long as the body's warm and the stomach acid isn't too strong for the larvae, they could use anything, although iirc they will go for the most uh
what's the word for it, not attractive
creatures with desirable traits
since the larvae take on traits from their hosts
so they're probably not going after livestock and stuff, but y'know
predators in general would probably do nicely enough
peak hamlet
But i mean they were kinda designed to get onto humans. Their legs fit perfectly around your head, the tube which lays the egg is on the height of your mouth, some other shit fits too (they somehow have to keep you alive so you dont run out of oxygen), their tail starts where your neck starts. When they designed them they didn't thought about using them on dogs for example.
But yeah its just a movie
They wen't for looks over logic
Which is perfectly fine imo
Hr gigers stuff is just beautiful
And pretty lewd most of the time
vagrant osprey
Maybe lasguns are x-ray based?
open marsh
They just use whats called "las" energy
aka, scifi pseudo-sciencey stuff. Dont think about it. Just shoot things
median sundial
Makes sense honestly. X-Ray let's you see bones and you can see someone's bones if you blow a big enough hole in 'em.
odd sparrow
ye 40k is space fantasy, not sci fi
don't expect tech gabble stuff to actually make sense empirically, it's all sorta running on its own internal logic
e.g. very little
novel fulcrum
yeah, they might try to use science and logic, but in the end it's still a setting wherein a sorcerer can summon a daemon only to be slain by a noble warrior in plated mail with a gleaming sword
depending on the warrior, that sword might also shoot bullets
fallow halo
**
Fun Warhammer 40k Facts:
A woman in a span of decades devoured three Seeker of Secrets of Slaanesh, and rose to being one of very few Daemon Prince of Slaanesh**
cloud kindle
yup
the person who taught her how was hoping it would kill her
it failed spectacularly and she killed him and kept summoning
on the 4th attempt slaanesh was like alright alright ill make you a prince instead of binding a 4th one
peak hamlet
What the shit
cloud kindle
she was incredibly vain and cause of that had a exceptionally strong sense of self that the daemons bound in her couldnt try to twist
she was using them as basically batteries
barren tapir
Because IG generals get respect from custodes unlike SM who get an halberd to the face
barren tapir
Interesting read for everyone that like eldars and their relationship with guillman
open marsh
Guilliman, being a bastion of sensibility
Guilliman: Xenos. We should team up and defeat Chaos.
Eldar: Yes. Finally you Mon'keigh are making some sense. Lets do it!
Guilliman: After its defeated tho, things are gonna get really complicated.
barren tapir
No one believe that the eldar wouldn't try to do the same
Guillman explain that perfectly, they are trying to keep their race alive, exactly what the humans are doing too
open marsh
Yeah i know
I just saw a meme to the same message. It was a space marine and a Tau teaming up to fight tyranids
vagrant osprey
Space Marines and Tau have... Not a truce, but an understanding
They'll kill each other, but if there's nids in the area they will work together to kill the nids, then go their separate ways in peace.
final spruce
smirks Peace
vagrant osprey
No, really.
Astartes and Tau both find it... unpalatable to turn on somebody just after fighting alongside them.
final spruce
With marines having literally hypnosis sessions to instil extreme xenophobia in them ? So much so that it doesn't even disapear even when joining Chaos ?
open marsh
Some chapters also teach their Astartes "honour" and such.
vagrant osprey
Technically, that's a modification of the Codex. The original hypnoconditioning was only to hate noncompliant xenos.
Almost all xenos are noncompliant.
The whole "suffer not the xenos" thing came after the death of the Emperor. It wasn't his work.
open marsh
Yeah but like, an Iron Hand would immediately turn his guns on the Tau as soon as the Tyranid threat was eliminated. While a chapter like the Blood Angels would be like "Alright. That was fun. Now you, xenos. Run along. I wont offer this twice."
vagrant osprey
The argument could be made that Xenos who are willing to fight alongside the Astartes against a greater threat are sufficiently compliant that they are not a priority.
Yeah, it's generally the Blood Angels and Ultramarines who wind up in those situations.
Some chapters barely even use hypnoconditioning. Space Wolves and Salamaders, for example.
Those may have cultural disdain for xenos, but it's not programmed in
open marsh
Others like the Minotaurs use so much hypno-indoctrination that it runs the risk of frying the neophyte's brain out
vagrant osprey
The Minotaurs are all kinds of weird, though.
Technically speaking, they could be female space marines.
open marsh
They are Iron Warriors
vagrant osprey
They're DEFINITELY extremely heretical.
open marsh
The guy who made the chapter for the Badab War books came out and said they are Iron Warriors
vagrant osprey
Ah, that's nice.
They're still the result of Cawl's experimentation with geneseed
open marsh
Asterion Moloc survives via having his personality/memories/soul transferred to a new body every time he dies
open marsh
They're still the result of Cawl's experimentation with geneseed
Nope
They were around since M32
You are thinking of the other Minotaurs
The Red/Yellow psycho-boyos
vagrant osprey
Recycling chapter names. Fun.
open marsh
Yep
Just to clarify:
These boyos are Iron Warriors. Been around since M32. Just have been trying to keep a low profile until they got made public sometime in M41.
vagrant osprey
I was talking about the current minotaurs, not the originals.
open marsh
These boyos are unknown/Chimeric. made in M36, "vanished" in M38 (probably throwing themselves into a fight they could not win).
vagrant osprey
The few fragmentary records that remain show the Chapter's gene-seed branded as "chimeric." This, as blasphemous as it may now seem, may have indicated that the Minotaurs' genetic material was either procured from a prohibited source, mixed with a heretical genetic pool, adulterated or somehow tampered with during its creation.
They also straight-up murder any non-Minotaur Apothecary or Medicae who comes within range of a downed Minotaur, and have never been seen out of armor.
open marsh
vagrant osprey
There are as many as three chapters of Astartes using that name.
open marsh
There are two. the Iron Warriors one, and the Chimeric one
coarse mirage
I remember that part where an XV8 boosts down next to an apothecary, asks what he's doing, gets the explanation that the apothecary is administering last rights and making sure they will be remembered, tells him to carry on and boosts away.
open marsh
Where was that at
coarse mirage
I think it was the Damocles Crusade, not sure
Or a supplement
I remember reading it but not sure where
As in not just what someone wrote on the internet
open marsh
But yeah. According to the guy who made the chapter, Eadwine Brown. The bronze colored Minotaurs are loyalist Iron Warriors who "came in from the cold" during the Great Scouring. Basically they were just a garrison force on some lost backwater world that had been pretty much forgotten thanks to the Horus Heresy. They missed the war. So they had no idea their legion had turned traitor. So when they reestablished contact with the Imperium, the High Lords gave them a choice:
"Work for us, or be labeled traitors too"
open marsh
Yep. Especially Iron Warriors. due to the sheer number of garrison forces they had
A similar thing happened to Warsmith Kyr Vhalen. Tho he participated in the war. He had no idea there was a war going on until the Alpha Legion attacked one of the worlds under his protection
vagrant osprey
Ugh, I still maintain that the single dumbest decision in the entire history of 40k was the Emperor deciding not to answer the question "What will you do with the Astartes after they have served their purpose in the Great Crusade?" when asked by the people who he had hunt down and exterminate the survivors of the last group of warriors who outlived their campaign.
I kinda assume that at one point he responded with dark laughter and walking away.
Can anybody think of a single worse decision in all of 40k?
vagrant osprey
I know he wasn't going to, and you know he wasn't going to.
But the fact that he wouldn't even tell his primarchs resulted in one of the hot topics among Astartes in the leadup to the Horus Heresy being "What will happen after the Great Crusade?"
And there were enough Astartes who believed they would be purged that one of the major ideological differences between the loyalists and the traitors was "My sacrifice is justified for the galaxy I will help create" versus "There can be no justice in a world made by disposing of loyal attendants"
open marsh
Also, Warsmith Kyr Vhalen. Loyalist Iron Warrior.
vagrant osprey
Every legion had purges of their dissenters, with the side that one the intranicine conflict generally being the side that aligned with their primarch
open marsh
Except the Iron Warriors
vagrant osprey
Yes.
open marsh
because of how spread out the Iron Warriors were, Perturabo couldnt effectively conduct a purge.
Its part of what inspired Guilliman's "chapters" idea for his codex
vagrant osprey
Yep
open marsh
The Iron Warriors produced the largest numbers of loyalists. Estimated in the tens of thousands. (essentially a legion of their own)
vagrant osprey
Also, the Iron Warriors had the "Big Boss" mentality around war - there would always be a need of them because there would always be war, and they wound up on both sides of it
open marsh
Well Barabas Dantioch's mentality was "Hmm...so you want me to turn against the Emperor....how about this.....how about I blow you the fuck up instead?"
vagrant osprey
Some legions basically didn't have much dissent at all; the Salamanders, the Imperial Fists, and the Ultramarines for example.
open marsh
Barabas Dantioch
vagrant osprey
Legions where the Primarchs had a decisive plan for what they would do with their Astartes, mostly.
open marsh
Some legions basically didn't have much dissent at all; the Salamanders, the Imp...
Of the Codex? Dorn had massive issues with it. It wasnt until his legion was nearly wiped out at the Iron Cage did he relent
open marsh
Ah. Im just talking about the traitor legions
The Iron Warriors had the most loyalists
vagrant osprey
Of all the traitor legions, yeah
With the runner-up being... World Eaters? I think?
On the Loyalist side, I have no damn idea.
Then we have the Dark Angels, which are just ¯_(ツ)_/¯
open marsh
The Dark Angels are loyal. Essentially there was a small sect of them (roughly 500) who were sent back to Caliban, and there turned traitor and formed essentially a new legion of their own
gaunt vector
White Scars had an actual traitor problem
the Khan accepted Warrior lodges
big mistake
as in, the warhawk flew into a window level mistake
open marsh
There is also the Alpha Legion. Who we dont know how many are traitor and how many are loyalists. Tho best estimates have the traitors vastly outnumbering the loyalists. Like there is just a handful of actual loyalists who follow Omegon
vagrant osprey
Caliban never turned, though.
open marsh
Caliban never turned, though.
...it did tho. When the Lion returned to it after the Horus Heresy, the first thing that happened was Astelan ordered the planetary defense systems to fire on the Lion's ships
vagrant osprey
Wasn't that in response to Caliban being fired upon?
open marsh
No
open marsh
There was confusion because the Lion returned home, not suspecting anything amiss, only for said home to open all fire on his ships
vagrant osprey
It's been a long time since I read about it, so I might be mistaken
I thought there was a traitor opening fire against orders somewhere.
open marsh
Not as far as we know. The order was given by Astelan.
Unless Astelan disobeyed Luther's orders
dim totem
Also, Warsmith Kyr Vhalen. Loyalist Iron Warrior.
where eye
open marsh
Was goned by explosion during the battle
(and still he refused to stop cussing out the traitors)
open marsh
Thats an Eldar's head
crisp heath
heresy
open marsh
Its sanctioned for the Deathwatch
coarse mirage
and a tau rifle
open marsh
A horribly mutilated one
vast frigate
Haha... Heresy meme.
cloud kindle
obligatory heresy meme
open marsh
Its not heresy. The weapons are officially sanctioned
rotund siren
cool
coarse mirage
They've got more advanced tech than the rest of the imperium too
Weird how they get to do it and nobody else does.
I'm looking at you, Mechanicus.
open marsh
Ironic that their primaris use older pattern assault bikes
cloud kindle
cawl would prob do it
open marsh
?
vagrant osprey
In 40k, "older pattern" usually means "better"
¯_(ツ)_/¯
So, here's an odd question: If Rylanor hadn't canonically died, what would his odds of surviving the second virus bombing of Istvaan III be?
Contemptor dreadnauts are vacuum-rated, and they're supposed to basically never be opened so they wouldn't have impaired seals like normal Astartes.
And the planet was already a dead world, so there wouldn't be much for the virus bomb to cook off in the first place.
I'm just picturing Rylanor sitting around on a dead world waiting for somebody to show up so he could hitchhike his way back to Terra
cerulean wagon
i mean
its less about vaccum seal
and more about it eating through everything
its not a virus in the traditional sense
the usualy image
its not about if you are sealed, its about it just eating through the material keeping you sealed
he literaly only survived the first bombing because he went to ground
some of the bunkers on istvaan survived the initial barrage
cloud kindle
rylanor was deep underground
and by 2nd you mean by the one he detonated?
cause his armor was torn open and fulgrim was able to reach in and poke him
open marsh
Even if Fulgrim hadn't torn his sarcophagus open. He was at ground zero of the bomb going off
It would have killed him
cerulean wagon
basically if environmental seals had anything to do with it they wouldnt have bothered with the bombing cause as sm they would know the other sm are sealed
open marsh
Do you think genestealers have souls?
Yes
They have a big one
That creates the Shadow in the Warp
coarse mirage
That's the hive mind, that's a collective gestalt, not a soul
open marsh
Essentially the same thing
cedar terrace
Not really
storm jungle
Not really
It is lol
coarse mirage
It is lol
What the orks do is not a soul, yet they have a collective gestalt too that makes things happen.
coarse mirage
Rock and stone
cloud kindle
nid food
loud vapor
I love the "Note purifications" bit on the "Eastern Fringe Artillery" rifle. "No really guys, the priest dude said it was fine! It has a seal and everything!"
inland meadow
are their dwarves in 40k?
smoky breach
Rock and stone.
azure vault
There was a close equivalent of dwarfs called awaits but I believe GW had licensing issues with them so that had to kill them all off and be written out
dim totem
... squats?
storm jungle
are their dwarves in 40k?
Yeah.
They're called Squats and were almost pretty much an official imperial faction until GW wiped them out. They still exist in lore but they're more or so just remnants and special characters
inland meadow
sad. would of loved to see them in games
storm jungle
Same
dim totem
i mean you can kitbash them
storm jungle
Yeee like they arent retconned at least so thats a plus
dim totem
get some einherjar from wargames atlantic and glue some wh40k stuff to them
bing bang boom squats
novel fulcrum
yeh, still no official rules for 'em currently outside of necromunda, but they sure do live
vagrant osprey
Wait, licensing issues? How could they have licensing issues with a public domain concept of "Short drunk engineer miners"?
celest dome
Squats were not a licensing issue (Dwarf were in a way, like Elf where they changed the name)
Squats were squatted because they didn't really know what to do with them (Apart from the Leather vest Bicker)
But they did say that if they found a niche for the Squat or a grand desing they could potentially come back
vagrant osprey
Pfft, just buy the rights to Deep Rock Galactic and throw some Aquilas around.
Bam, done.
Give 'em repurposesd mining equipment as weapons and use 'em as sapper units.
wary sky
DRG/40k crossover is the dream
vagrant osprey
GW could literally buy Ghost Ship Games.
Maybe I should start a petition...
"Buy this company, let them work, don't fuck it up"
storm jungle
Squats were not a licensing issue (Dwarf were in a way, like Elf where they chan...
Thats what makes me laugh
"Aelf" is actually a word lol
thanks GW
odd sparrow
at least aelf is pronounced the same
atomic pelican
Nah its just pronounced elf
barren tapir
Funny thing is that a before a word can be used to indicate a negation of that word... So aelf can be see as saying something not elf...
storm jungle
im pretty sure aelf was from gaelic iirc?
rotund siren
ah that makes sense
storm jungle
its actually the origin of the name "alfred"
rotund siren
neat
storm jungle
a man so wise that he was taught by the elves
barren tapir
Ae is latin yes, negative alpha is greek iirc
storm jungle
aaah
rotund siren
so Alfred Pennyworth talked with the fey, makes sense
rotund siren
Ae is latin yes, negative alpha is greek iirc
language sure is funky, is not it?
storm jungle
Alfred is a masculine given name of English origin, a modern descendant of the Anglo-Saxon name Ælfræd (Old English pronunciation: [ˈæɫfræːd]), formed from the Germanic words ælf, meaning "elf", and ræd, meaning "counsel". Its feminine form is Alfreda, and diminutives of Alfred include Al, Alf, Alfie, Fred, and Freddy.
Found it, it actually is pretty funky
rotund siren
cool
open marsh
But what about "alfredo"?
coarse mirage
Älfred
prime kernel
aaah squats
I love me some space dwarves
but dammit they didnt work
Then again the idea of seeing a 40k version of dwarfs sound found
barren tapir
Anyone know what is the stance toward warp entities that House Van Saar from necromunda has?
barren tapir
open marsh
Anyone know what is the stance toward warp entities that House Van Saar from nec...
From what is shown in the House of Artiface. They dont seem to make use of any warp fuckery. They are purely technological
barren tapir
No seriously, if they are from the age of tech, or at least most of them are, and they were in the warp for a lot of time, they must know something about the entities that "live" in the warp... And since they aren't bound by the religious craziness of the imperium it could be an interesting... thing, to explore
barren tapir
From what is shown in the House of Artiface. They dont seem to make use of any w...
I didn't mean about them using the warp, i was asking what they think about demons and other warpy stuff
open marsh
How "long" someone is in the warp doesnt translate to realworld time. So even tho they were "lost" in the warp for like...what...15,000 years? our time. It wasnt nearly as long for them. More like a normal trip
open marsh
I didn't mean about them using the warp, i was asking what they think about demo...
The book doesnt touch on it iirc. So they likely have no relation or specifically detailed knowledge of warp entities
barren tapir
Yeah, i know, but while in the warp it could have been a week, that time was a time where an entity was created, and the number of entities definitely increased
open marsh
They probably didnt encounter any
open marsh
Oh look at Leandros over here
barren tapir
You know that the hive is a dangerous place right? You know that the under hive is even more dangerous?
Oh, you don't want to go down there? Well, it is a shame since your bodies will be found there... But fear not, House Van Saar will make sure that they will be recovered and given back to the inquisition... House Van Saar is a loyal servant of the imperium after all
vast frigate
maybe they do have a man of iron or stone
one that is fully capable of running their STC
open marsh
Well the STC still has its AI intact
So its runs itself
House Hera found that out the hard way
coarse mirage
Oh look at Leandros over here
Space book say: this bad
fallow halo
Does angry sex fuels both Khorne and Slaanesh?
Or will it fuel Slaanesh more?
Or will it fuel Khorne more? Because the subsequent link of anger and sex feeds him and Slaanesh and pisses him off more for having been linked loosely to Slaanesh?
odd tulip
Daily reminder that Slaanesh is not a sex god
open marsh
Well not solely one
odd tulip
Slaanesh is the god of emotional extremes; slaanesh gains power any time someone feels something particularly strongly.
Which can be lust, sure, but it can be anything else, too. Bloodlust, for instance, falls under Slaanesh's umbrella, much to Khornes chagrin.
open marsh
I mean. One of the 6 circles in Slaaneshes realm is one where daemonettes try and seduce you with carnal pleasures
odd tulip
Lust is a very easy to exploit emotion, particularly in humans.
But really, any time someone has ever set out to be the absolute best at something, better than everyone else, a true artist in their field- they are inadvertently powering slaanesh
open marsh
It's not even to be the best. It's to take it too far
odd tulip
Exactly! To go beyond what could possibly be considered reasonable.
To be extravagant, debauched, or extreme. That is Slaaneshes game.
open marsh
But there is literally a sub realm in Slaaneshes realm where the daemonettes will literally fuck you to death
odd tulip
Can't say I'm familiar with that, but given the nature of the warp, I don't doubt it
open marsh
Slaanesh is not a "just" a sex god. But it's certainly within her jurisdiction
odd tulip
I wouldn't even say that much. You can have sex without trying to reach the absolute peak of physical joy.
odd tulip
If you're popping ten grams of Ecstasy and then buying 100 whores, you're worshipping slaanesh. If you're getting it on with your wife on your night off, you're making the Emperor proud.
open marsh
It's the really crazy stuff that I'd rather not go that way pls k thx
open marsh
Its just that, if it brings you pleasure in some way. It's within Slaanesh's jurisdiction. Because you can get addicted to it and take it too far
odd tulip
How long did that one take you, Sauce?
coarse mirage
10 years?
open marsh
Oof
odd tulip
Its just that, if it brings you pleasure in some way. It's within Slaanesh's jur...
If taking any amount of pleasure from anything was slaanesh worship, slaanesh would be the most powerful chaos god. Slaanesh is only interested in the new and the extreme.
open marsh
That's what I said
It's not enough to take pleasure in it. It's to take it to the extreme
But anything that causes pleasure can be taken too far.
odd tulip
Oh, I misunderstood
Yeah, totally. Slaanesh's ever present smirk grows whenever someone says "This is good, but it could be better".
open marsh
Like one thing that is explicitly said to empower Slaanesh is the pride and smug feeling that a worshipping titan princep feels when he kills a horde of foes with a single shot of the titan's cannon
It's not the bloodlust. It's the smug sense of pride and superiority. The knowledge that he has enough power to just slaughter so many so easily
plucky moth
yooo
@odd tulip my package arrived
will do photos and stuff a bit later though since I'm busy rn 
oh wait this is the lore chat, oh well w/e it's server lore
odd tulip
Hell yeah! Give me a review on Euro chocolate when you get the chance 😎
odd tulip
Well my package was Northern Europe to canada, so I doubt it was ever warm enough
dim totem
Ahhh
plucky moth
mine is obviously more confusing since I'm down under
dim totem
In western Europe it's been hot enough to melt chocolate if left out
vagrant osprey
Now ta question is. Does House Van Saar have any Men of Stone?
Ok, so:
Men of Gold: DAoT humans before they developed STCs.
Men of Stone: Strong artificial general intelligences, which in the "men of stone" context is focused on the AIs assigned to STCs with the task of solving any problem presented to them.
Men of Iron: AIs and their robotic armatures designed to solve the problem of war.
The Van Saar have a Man of Stone, but a severely injured one. They don't have Men of Iron OR the robot armatures, because that would instantly give the game away and get them all killed.
summer niche
didn't gaunt find one of those men of iron STC factories?
vagrant osprey
Yeah, corrupted by chaos
Also: putting "stc" in there doesn't help. "STC" is a term that covers everything from scrawls on napkins to the Sperenza because 40k lacks the ability to express a distinction between them.
It was just a factory
storm jungle
Also: putting "stc" in there doesn't help. "STC" is a term that covers everythin...
STC is suppose to be a general term though
every found STC has its own unique name anyway?
vagrant osprey
It's a category of categories, and they don't have names for the subcategories.
storm jungle
vagrant osprey
It's a mess on purpose, and this is a persistent gripe of mine.
Basically, an STC is anything from before the fall of humanity that makes it easier to make a thing.
storm jungle
Eh its fine. STCs are nothing but plot devices and mcguffins anyway.
weak fern
Big Mac
vagrant osprey
Yeah, but The Emperor is also nothing but a plot device and a mcguffin
And theorycrafting kinda needs diving into what's behind plot devices, and the nature of mcguffins
cloud kindle
everything is mcguffins
open marsh
STCs are just super 3d printers, blueprint databases, and AIs that run them
open marsh
Is mayonnaise an STC?
There is probably an STC for that
cloud kindle
the condiment STC
open marsh
I mean there is an STC for paint so...
merry tiger
explorator fleet for the perfect hotdog
crisp heath
I cannot believe what's goin on with Dan Abnett's Inquisitor books
This stuff is HUGE!!!!!!
AAAA
cloud kindle
I saw inquisitor and got concerned it was ian watson
empty sigil
how big is 40k lore?
broken shell
how big is 40k lore?
There's a 53-book novel series covering some of the important events leading up to the present time for one of the major factions. That should tell you something.
open marsh
how big is 40k lore?
Its probably the largest and most expansive scifi/sci-fantasy fiction out there
open marsh
There's a 53-book novel series covering *some* of the important events leading u...
Thats just the prequel
And thats not counting the: short stories, novellas, audio dramas, & campaign books
storm jungle
Gotta milk it for all its worth
empty sigil
I had no idea the lore was that expansive is vermentide and darktide during the same time?
open marsh
Not even in the same universe
empty sigil
isnt it warhammer? I thought everything was in the same place sort of
open marsh
Nope
Warhammer Fantasy, Warhammer Age of Sigmar, & Warhammer 40,000 are all different universes
empty sigil
oh ok that explains a lot
open marsh
Yeah
broken shell
The basic concepts and premises are kinda the same
open marsh
weak nova
cloud kindle
🇭🇲
limpid hedge
What upside down?
coarse mirage
Australians?
Australia doesn't exist. How could a country so full of deadly, poisonous, venomous creatures and nothing but desert actually have people in it? Like come on guys, that's not real.
plucky moth
limpid hedge
Australia doesn't exist. How could a country so full of deadly, poisonous, venom...
You wrong
Australia doesn’t exist period
All the people that live there are holly wood actors
limpid hedge
K then I’m just an idiot and read that weird
limpid hedge
WEL YAZ SHOULDA ROTE’N RED! THENZ I REED FASTA
limpid hedge
I aint being paid enough for this shit
That sounds like a you problem
cloud kindle
Indeed
open marsh
Strangely reminds me of the "Biggus Dickus" scene in Life of Brian
They got genuine reactions from the actors by not telling them about the joke and telling them that if they laughed, they wouldnt get paid for the scene
limpid hedge
Strangely reminds me of the "Biggus Dickus" scene in Life of Brian
Ah you are a man of culture
open marsh
open marsh
Its Enforced Method Acting
The best way to make an actor look like they are having a genuine reaction....is to make them have a genuine reaction
So yeah. Watch that scene again with the knowledge that they arent faking trying not to laugh. They genuinely are trying to not laugh
limpid hedge
Hmm
limpid hedge
A wife in Wome
novel fulcrum
Do you know what she's called?
limpid hedge
Incontinentia
heavy pine
what if orks got wife
dim totem
Incontinentia Buttocks
vast frigate
God i love that scene
flat needle
vagrant osprey
You know, the fact that Necromunda has a hive literally full of genestealers that constantly pour out of it is pretty solid proof that Necromunda is immune to Exterminatus.
Change my mind.
vagrant osprey
I think there's only 4 planets that are Exterminatus-proof
Terra, Mars, Necromunda, and Cadia.
So, three now.
I'm pretty sure even Macragge isn't immune to Exterminatus. Doylist immunity aside.
open marsh
Terra, Mars, Necromunda, and Cadia.
The fact that Cadia was exterminatus'd completely negates that entire Idea
It just wasnt exterminatus'd by the Inquisition
vagrant osprey
It's not Exterminatus if it's not the Imperium doing it.
It was torn into pieces and swallowed by the Warp
open marsh
It is exterminatus. No matter who does it
limpid hedge
I wonder if Mars is exterminatus proof?
The inquisition has probably gave Mars the fisheye more than once
And if they found out about the Void Dragon they would do it without a second thought.
storm jungle
Its probably the most likely scenario in the end times
open marsh
I wonder if Mars is exterminatus proof?
Nope
Big E developed a protocol with the Dark Angels specifically to exterminate the Mechanicum were it ever to turn against the Imperium
broken shell
Apparently it didn't work
broken shell
Yeah, half of them. And the Imperium never recovered
limpid hedge
Its probably the most likely scenario in the end times
In the end time the Void Dragon is going to wake up
broken shell
I sincerely hope they never pull any "end times" crap with 40k
limpid hedge
Yeah
rotund siren
you and everyone else
limpid hedge
Well 40k hasn’t gotten to the point that fantasy had when the did that
broken shell
Fantasy was a dying, broken franchise that could do with a reinvention
40k would just suffer from it though
storm jungle
They're going to when 40k stops making money
its the fate of most franchises
40k may last long but it'll falter sooner or later like any big franchise
limpid hedge
I think they are reviving fantasy aren’t they?
limpid hedge
Ah
odd sparrow
ye it's probs just gonna be a smol forgeworld thing, like 30k
hopefully we get some cool models out of it
rotund siren
nice new pfp
odd sparrow
correct
odd sparrow
Fantasy was a dying, broken franchise that could do with a reinvention
ehh that's wildly debatable
limpid hedge
Forgeworld prices are..... extreme
odd sparrow
but imo like, AoS is cool enough that i can excuse axing fantasy. Now if they could start like
getting some of the AoS sculpting talent over to 40k so they can make stuff that isn't boring marines
would be nice
odd sparrow
Forgeworld prices are..... extreme
and it's all resin too cus fuck u
limpid hedge
Yup
odd sparrow
star wars fans need to be ended
limpid hedge
getting some of the AoS sculpting talent over to 40k so they can make stuff that...
How dare you suggest that GW would create new stuff for any one but the ultra smurfs
odd sparrow
What gets me is like?? There's so much cool stuff to do in 40k still?? Like
cmon GW you clearly love elf variations
hallow apex
Lookit dis git wiv ah flashylight. Gon’ krump em
odd sparrow
exodites. now. cmon pls the last new 40k range was like
genestealer cults ig?
meanwhile AoS is getting them every like 6 months
limpid hedge
Maybe a massive Ork invasion.
WAAAAGH?!?!?
hallow apex
final spruce
exodites. now. cmon pls the last new 40k range was like
Necron in 2020
odd sparrow
oh yeah the necrons were good
but just. there's so little actually super fun cool stuff for 40k like there is for AoS
and the faction split is WAY less balanced
final spruce
I mean the sisters got theirs in 2019
limpid hedge
Yeah. It’s like we also need xenos codexes
final spruce
It seems like each year we get an overall
odd sparrow
the fact that the sisters got to that point in the first place is quite damning
final spruce
Its simple its the space marine effect
People dont buy cuz its old so GW doesnt do anything with it
open summit
It's almost as if new product sells... but since the only new product they insist on putting out is Space Marines it's the only thing they see leaving shelves...
final spruce
Dg technically uses power armour
limpid hedge
*And isn’t bright blue
final spruce
I mean the ultras may be the poster boys but people prefer the salamender, blood angels or the space wolves
limpid hedge
Yeah
But everything that comes out is primaris and the base stuff is all Ultramarines
We need a little variation
crisp heath
Well most of the marine stuff is universal and can be easily modded with bits. Tho even as a sm player i dont like the ultramarine spotlight, lack of new conversion bits and characters for other chapters, lack of variable torsos for example
open marsh
^
crisp heath
even tho i honestly and sincerely don't give a fuck about factions like nids, one would think it common sense that if people keep asking for it it would sell.
limpid hedge
Ye
It wouldn’t be so bad if the Ultramarines weren’t so generic. Like if they hadn’t been turned into mindless rule followers. Big generalization I know but at this point that’s what they feel like.
Like have the Blood Angels, or Dark Angels as kinda the poster marines cause they at least have gimmicks. Or maybe have two chapters as the headliners to avoid that staleness of only seeing one colour of power armour.
also more consistent and just more Xeno stuff.
crisp heath
just not have a poster chapter and use variable chapters for rep
limpid hedge
Yeah. The dream would it to be like you could pick out a general unit of marines and then you would be able to pick what chapter you wanted the chest plates, shoulder pads, and helmets to be from.
And then still having several unique units for each chapter.
limpid hedge
Yeah
ashen zenith
Is a grey knight more powerful than a normal space marine librarian?
Purely as psykers
open marsh
On average, probably tho idk if its ever stated
Also from the new xenos studies book:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/672803077031591947/820636490689675274/fel.png
Felinids (sort of) confirmed in the Imperial Guard
Since him mentioning having fought against Militarum units that had them as pretty much the only thing he is really sure about (thatthe narrator doesnt call bullshit on)
dull flame
vagrant osprey
Felinids are explicitly canon. They're mentioned in lots of places.
We just don't have any idea what they look like
storm jungle
They arent mentioned in many places though
literally just 2 references
the most recent being xenology
but yeah they still exist
dim totem
I suspect it's just heretic propaganda
vast frigate
they never explained what they look like except from the new book right? liber xenology?
atomic pelican
Yeah Grekh has a passage abt them in it but its still kinda ambiguous
storm jungle
^
dim totem
I'd accept that over cat boys, wookies are cool
severe yoke
actually just 40k wookies
Aren't those Jokaero
rotund siren
nah, those are space monkeys
severe yoke
Then what are wookies if not space monkey bears?
plucky moth
no idea but I am Joking which is kinda similar
rotund siren
nice wordplay Incan
storm jungle
Wookies are space bigfoots
rotund siren
pat pat
storm jungle
severe yoke
And bigfoots are apes
plucky moth
severe yoke
I rest my case
rotund siren
that's like saying humans are apes
dim totem
And bigfoots are apes
how would you know, you ever seen a Bigfoot?
severe yoke
that's like saying humans are apes
I mean they technically are a subgroup of the great apes so
rotund siren
but not the same thing
plus
if you called someone an ape
there is a really good chance of insulting them
rotund siren
false you can still go down
slate gate
What is Grekh?
open marsh
A reminder that twin-linked combi-lasguns exist
coarse mirage
The description of the cat people said they're almost indistinquishable from regular people
storm jungle
What is Grekh?
Its a kroot mercenary
open marsh
The description of the cat people said they're almost indistinquishable from reg...
admittedly from someone who said he cant tell the difference between any human. which would include beastmen, orgryns, ratlings, etc
coarse mirage
I very very much doubt he meant he can't tell the difference between an Ogryn and a person
slate gate
That would be like confusing a krootox with a regular
open marsh
I could imagine some humanity who are like that
Some consider eldar and orkz just different breeds of the same thing
coarse mirage
If you can't tell the difference between eldar and ork you're special in the head
open marsh
....I can see some humans that dumb. Yes
coarse mirage
You're impossible
vernal belfry
final spruce
I mean the guy is described multiple times as shady
So its up to you to trust a shady guy that just tried to scam you
open marsh
I mean the guy is described multiple times as shady
deff.
Everything he said could be a lie. But 40k loves it "grain of truth hidden in the lie". And that one bit of info just feels more reasonable and legit
final spruce
By his description felinids would be like Wolverine
I mean guards need better melee units
So if felinids appear and become discount wulfen, I could live with that
open marsh
By his description felinids would be like Wolverine
This mention of them having "claws the length of a man's forearm" is not the part I was referring to. That just sounds like him bullshitting
final spruce
Well yeah his entire appearance is full of bullshit
open marsh
yeah but him mentioning their service in the Imperial Guard is the 1 thing that feels more credible
The "grain of truth hidden in the lie" I mention
(The Imperium isnt big on just not throwing useful troops into the grinder)
vagrant osprey
You say that, but fifteen hours
open marsh
"Average lifespan of a guardsman" yes. but relevance?
vagrant osprey
I meant from the story.
open marsh
???
vagrant osprey
The novel by Mitchel Scanlon
vagrant osprey
Where the Imperium sends IG down to an ork-infested world by the battalion to defend a mining outpost because they consider battalions of IG to be a cheap price for holding it.
-> (The Imperium isnt big on just not throwing useful troops into the grinder)
vast frigate
GW wtf you doing thats a supression laser
open marsh
Whats better than a lasgun? Two lasguns
cloud kindle
Twin linked flashlights
open marsh
I get the feeling you said that just because noone thinks its funny anymore
cloud kindle
Exactly
vagrant osprey
Whoops, should have read better, Sorry, Nuclear!
vast frigate
Twin linked flashlights
Twink linked flashlight: when a young techpriest makes 2 lasguns
serene jungle
When twin powerfists?
I think the closest would be a Dreadnaught now that I think about it
oh my god if I can run around and fist Chaos as an Ogryn in Darktide that would be absolutely baller
open marsh
Whoops, should have read better, Sorry, Nuclear!
its cool
odd sparrow
Reeeing carries a sentence of death
cloud kindle
give me the sweet release of death i crave
crisp heath
reeee
odd sparrow
man yall need therapy