40k-lore-chat

[vagrant osprey]

Err... we actually can.

[vast frigate]

missile strikes, drones

thats our key

[vagrant osprey]

We have anti-missile systems that would fuck up a drop pod.

[vast frigate]

and well... i got some bad news for you concerning defensive batteries they have

you know what droppods do though, right?

astartes droppods can reach up to 10kmps

[vagrant osprey]

Yes.

And?

[vast frigate]

Okay, now you have to also remember

They have dummy pods

The astartes are made to be unstoppable, we cant beat them

If the astartes take it personal, again, that is IF

and we only fight them

you are still looking at a total global communications issue, the admech will either fry or take out our satalites

[vagrant osprey]

This is literally a hypothetical situation to gauge relative combat effectiveness.

[vast frigate]

And youre ignoring the Hypothetical agression astartes can pull out of their ass

They could literally decide: not worth our time

and bomb all capitols into ruins

[vagrant osprey]

You keep bringing in things outside the scope of the thought experiment.

[novel fulcrum]

what was even the original question? can the astartes take and hold a planet?

[vast frigate]

People Dont like that

What thought experiment, you asked if they could take earth

they can

[peak hamlet]

Are we talking a single marine or a whole chapter?

[vast frigate]

chapter

[gaunt vector]

we have anti missile systems that would fuck up a missile DROP PODS ARE ARMOURED

[vast frigate]

1000 marines, weapons

[novel fulcrum]

i thought it was literally every space marine

[peak hamlet]

Chapter would fuck us up

[vagrant osprey]

The original question was "Is the number of Astartes sufficient to take the planet greater than the number of Astartes that has ever existed at one point"

[vast frigate]

i only hooked in on the earth part

[gaunt vector]

PseudonymousToday at 5:18 PM
You know, looking at the lore for Astartes, it looks like without support from Titans or orbital assets the number of Astartes required to take modern day earth exceeds the number of Astartes that have ever existed at once(edited)
[5:22 PM]
They have full situational awareness via microwave scanning out to 800 meters (When wearing their fucking helmets), and they have precognitive reflexes thanks to the Occulobe and Black Carapace, but they can't dodge an AMR round fired from 2km away.
[5:23 PM]
40k doesn't even have BVR combat. Even their artillery is limited to maybe 10 miles
[5:24 PM]
Predator drones fly well outside Astartes detection range, and even if the Astartes could see them none of their weapons have the range to hit one.
[5:25 PM]
They don't even have the option of ditching their armor and attempting to hide amongst the population, since they're so morphologically distinct.

[vast frigate]

i dont care about the rest because that is lore and writing based

[gaunt vector]

THat is what we are talking about

ALL of the astartes

18 legions

number of Astartes required to take modern day earth exceeds the number of Astartes that have ever existed at once

unless it changed and i missed it

[vast frigate]

What

Okay

every legion had 10k astartes at minimum, thats 180k soldiers

All those soldiers have at least a tank divided between every 12 of them if we only do that

[gaunt vector]

average was 100k

[novel fulcrum]

technically 200k, but we won't expand on that because space dad says is bad

[vast frigate]

at the startup it was 10k

im taking minimal numbers

[gaunt vector]

so thats also pre nikea

so they have psykers

[vagrant osprey]

Oh, it wouldn't penetrate the drop pod. However, it would put it into a spin and that would result in it being fucked due to re-entry physics.

[vast frigate]

youre still talking about numbers we have to absolutely sledgehammer with either nukes, or artillery.... you see where this is going

[vast frigate]

oh i have some bad news for you

Some really bad news

[gaunt vector]

and drop pods have no stabilisers then?

[vast frigate]

Droppods are uh

well

their machine spirit is SO GODDAMN agressive

it will literally flip upside down and reverse to slow, to prevent shit like this

[gaunt vector]

it would be like throwing pocket sand at the SAS

that is just NOT going to work

unless your aim was to get turned into a mural

[vast frigate]

droppods are something that is so plot armored, you cant fight agains tthem unless you aim directly from below it

and absolutely saturate it before it hits top speed

which... they do pretty quickly

[gaunt vector]

Also, are we ignoring their battle barges>

[vast frigate]

Lets leave orbitals rn

[vagrant osprey]

without orbital assets

Again, right in the thesis.

[gaunt vector]

only weapon that could try that is something like the Phalanx. its range is too short and its shots dont even hit as hard as a bolter

just saying: ALL of our infantry would be F U C K E D

Astartes armour can even reduce something like those ridiculous 50cal antimaterial sniper rifles to "maybe"

instead of: your skull is now pink dust

[novel fulcrum]

i don't think the point was ever really that 'modern day earth could just simply kill all the space marines'

was it?

[gaunt vector]

it was to prevent all 18 legions from taking earth similtaneously

an Astartes is not going to surrender to us

so yes

we have to kill them all

especially the WarHounds and Revenant legion

12 and 9

assuming this is still early legions

[novel fulcrum]

so, the problem is ultimately that 2 million people can't really see all of earth at once

[vast frigate]

okay

[novel fulcrum]

or any planets, for that matter

[vast frigate]

im gonna scrap all i wrote

[gaunt vector]

true, but the vast majority of our armed forces can't really do that much anyway

[vast frigate]

What do you think happens if the Night lords manage to find a broadcasting station?

[gaunt vector]

they could probably take enough key locations to cripple us

very qouickly

[novel fulcrum]

yeah, but is taking the planet just 'killing all the important people'?

[gaunt vector]

*quickly

[vagrant osprey]

Also: They have no defense or counter against drone strikes.

[vast frigate]

uh they do

[gaunt vector]

no, its bringing us into compliance

[vast frigate]

Laser rapier batteries, quad launchers

[gaunt vector]

by any means

[vast frigate]

Storm Arrays

[vagrant osprey]

What's the maximum range of those?

[novel fulcrum]

well, i don't know how compliant we would be with our planet laid to waste

[gaunt vector]

drone operators and bases have no defence against drop pod assaults

[vast frigate]

capitols would be struck most likely

[gaunt vector]

their range is: sufficient

[vast frigate]

main first, then in descending order

[novel fulcrum]

does this assume there's no underground resistance allowed to form?

[gaunt vector]

governments and military bases

[vast frigate]

Chances are highly likely that: Russia, America, China, will be struck first

[gaunt vector]

8th legion

also 19th

[vagrant osprey]

"sufficient" is not a range

[novel fulcrum]

i don't know what you're saying my man

[gaunt vector]

its long enough

[vast frigate]

it is when your firepower Equals: Yes.

[novel fulcrum]

do two space marine legions know how to spot resistance members among the population

[vast frigate]

Chances are high they do

[gaunt vector]

well, why wouldn't they

[vast frigate]

and if not, purge the whole city

who cares

[vagrant osprey]

So, you're saying their defense is plot armor because you can't actually give a response when asked a question.

[gaunt vector]

especially if they had psykers listening in on that person

[vast frigate]

We have given you answers pseudo

youre ignoring them

enough weapons the space marines have before even the rediscovery began for weapons and armor, can shred us like no others

[novel fulcrum]

they really don't have enough psykers to just listen to everyone, unless we're saying that like 95% of earth is wiped out before 'compliance' is established

[vast frigate]

Youre either trolling or purposely ignoring the heavy retardation 40k puts onto its weapons.

[gaunt vector]

there is a difference between sucking off plot armour and just not having the statistcs of a weapons system that DOES NOT ACTUALLY EXIST

[vast frigate]

We can defeat marines

Thats not an issue

but when their target is to take our planet, they will

[gaunt vector]

true, but astartes patrolling for resistance members would be able to find them where they looked

[vast frigate]

we are not going to be able to defeat them unless we have a head start on them

even then

theyd just bombard us

We cant stop orbital bombardment and that is gonna push us into compliance real quick

Youre also not factoring in Deserters

I would, im sorry guys, gladly see space and other places

[gaunt vector]

yup

[vast frigate]

if they give me the option, im out

Now youve got someone on the enemy ship

with access to things like Google Maps

[gaunt vector]

I'd walk up to the nearest SM officer ask if he had a warrant of trade and a spare corvette lying around

[vast frigate]

Which can be used to show the astartes what and how

''yeah so weirdly blurred areas are often military bases''

quick admech scan later and you have a new badge on your shirt

[gaunt vector]

they would also have Auspex readings which would likely be superior to Google Earth

[vast frigate]

well yeah

but the adeptus mechanicus value all knowledge

so that old mapping system must be preserved

[novel fulcrum]

i guess i'm now of the mind that all of the space marines in existence could take a planet
which means it's good that it would never actually happen, this is not a counterargument, it's just relief

thank you, enemies of mankind, for keeping most of them busy

[gaunt vector]

lmao yeah

[vast frigate]

its more that they have the means to take us out already

they only need the reason to do so

[gaunt vector]

reason being: they find us and either we say no or they are the World Eaters/ Death Guard

[vagrant osprey]

Now, if it was 40k's Mars versus modern Earth, the result would be an immediate peace treaty.

The AdMech would surrender if that was what it took.

We're experimenting with AI, and on the cusp of what would become STC technology. In 40k lore, we would be the Creators.

We have libraries and schools full of knowledge that the AdMech would give ANYTHING to access.

And we're actually equipped to reverse engineer archeotech.

[novel fulcrum]

that's...questionable

[vast frigate]

night lords

[vagrant osprey]

Mars doesn't have a scanning electron microscope.

That's lost technology.

They don't have computer scientists. That's a lost art.

[vast frigate]

you do... realize... that.... the adeptus mechanicus arent retarded toaster fuckers that just pray right....?

They still code

[vagrant osprey]

I do know that.

[novel fulcrum]

i guess i personally feel like they would have us sanctioned and wiped out for tech-heresy, and then quietly pick through the ashes of our technological marvels like they do with the necrons

[vast frigate]

they still make

just within STC logic

so they do have computer scientists, they do have electron microscopes

im not sure what youre talking about here with ''Mars and modern earth''

[vagrant osprey]

What? No, that's not how that works.

so they do have computer scientists, they do have electron microscopes
Literally WHAT?

[vast frigate]

Okay now im sure youre just trolling

[vagrant osprey]

Ok, so, you don't seem to understand the distinction between a computer scientist and a code monkey.

[vast frigate]

I work in a computer lab as a server management employee

thanks

Youre pretty much insinuating that the Mechanicus are retarded

[novel fulcrum]

alright, so

[vagrant osprey]

That's not even remotely part of my argument.

[novel fulcrum]

the mechanicus are smart, incredibly smart, smarter than we could imagine, but

[vast frigate]

Youre telling us that the people who manage advanced robotic systems dont know how to make, maintain or process/engineer the codes they need

[vagrant osprey]

My argument is that they know how to do things, but have no understanding of HOW those things actually work or what's going on.

[vast frigate]

they do

Its surrounded by superstition, but they do

[vagrant osprey]

They kitbash github scripts together.

[vast frigate]

....

Right

Lets start with this then

[vagrant osprey]

Because it's literally tech heresy to replace them.

[novel fulcrum]

they have to act like crazy religious people because they tried approaching archeotech with the mindset of a rational human being, and it royally screwed mars

[vast frigate]

Its not heresy to replace them, its heresy to delete or adjust existing ones.

You know how kataphron robots are controlled?

[novel fulcrum]

datasmiths are cool

[vast frigate]

Floppy drive style disks are made before combat, the datasmith carries it on them

They then INSERT THE DRIVES during combat

[novel fulcrum]

literally just open their maintenance panels and slot in new routines for them to follow

[vast frigate]

Drive: Assault protocol.
Drive: Protection protocol.
Drive: maintenance protocol.
Drive: Loop protocol.

These drives are written before combat and stored after combat

They know how to make their code setups and engineer their architectures just fine

of course, they grab old disks for referance

[novel fulcrum]

i like the idea of a datasmith marching with their robots and then suddenly there's an ambush and they have to frantically hide behind their still marching robots while giving them the 'shoot them' disk

[peak hamlet]

We still arguing?

[vast frigate]

it seems like we went from astartes cant take earth to admech are unable to code

[peak hamlet]

Aight

[vast frigate]

imma head onto apex legends

[vagrant osprey]

Not that they're unable to code.

That they don't have the fundamentals to understand the details of how things operate.

[novel fulcrum]

it was another hypothetical about how the admech would surrender to us because we're on the cusp of greatness like the age of technology era, but the problem with that logic is that the mechanicus view the ageo f technology paradoxically

they say that they cannot hope ot replicate the wisdom of those that came before, and also vilify their actions in flying too close to the sun

[vagrant osprey]

And we could solve their scrapcode problem in about a week.

[novel fulcrum]

without our own stuff being infested with scrapcode?

[vagrant osprey]

Yes.

We can, without question, do that.

[novel fulcrum]

how?

[vagrant osprey]

Simple. Our systems are too simple to be able to run it in the first place.

But we can absolutely write up code that could identify it.

We could PiHole scrapcode.

[novel fulcrum]

i don't thin kthe problem was ever that they can't figure out if something has scrapcode

it's just straight-up a daemon computer virus, so they can't do much about it because The Warp(tm)

[vagrant osprey]

Yes, it's that the process of figuring out if something has scrapcode causes you to become infected by scrapcode.

Scrapcode isn't one thing. It's not just a warpy virus; it also includes old warware from the DAoT.

[novel fulcrum]

yes, it's a combination of it all

[vast frigate]

this i highly doubt

scrapcode was partly warpy

we have no idea on how to handle that

[novel fulcrum]

scrapcode utterly breaks down a machine spirit and 'rebuilds' them in a way to suit the purposes of the warpsmith

[vagrant osprey]

We don't have machine spirits in the first place.

[novel fulcrum]

even if that process could somehow be reversed, the tech has been tainted

i'm not talking ours my guy, i'm talking theirs

[vagrant osprey]

Oh, you thought I meant scrubbing things clean of it?

[novel fulcrum]

also, technically machine spirits aren't about how advanced the tech is, the 'void dragon' just kind of exists in everything, except it's not the void dragon

[vagrant osprey]

I just meant we could throw together a Noospheric Condom that would no-sale any scrapcode that tried to pass.

[novel fulcrum]

if we're combining universes, this makes assumptions about what would and would not be affected by the weird logic of 40k

[vagrant osprey]

40k cogitators are, IIRC, all the same sorts of things that were used for running AIs

Is that a fair statement?

[novel fulcrum]

i don't know what you mean by it

so maybe?

considering AI has been outlawed for several millenia

[vagrant osprey]

Rephrase: Even though AI has been illegal for 10,000 years, the cogitator template they use dates back to the DAoT and is almost definitely designed for the purpose of running AI.

[novel fulcrum]

probably?

[vagrant osprey]

If they weren't, we probably wouldn't have rogue AI jumping into random Cogitators.

Right, so, none of that works on our computers.

We have advanced computer clusters able to simulate something with almost as much intelligence as an earthworm at about 1/1000th speed.

We can make pattern matchers that are pretty good at a single function, like GPT-3, but that requires advanced hardware.

Our hardware is, strictly speaking, too constrained to support scrapcode.

If scrapcode isn't AI-based, then it would run into the problem of our hardware simply being incompatible with it at a basic level - unlike 40k we don't actually have a architectural monoculture. A chip could be RISCV, ARM, x86, etc...

And the odds of it even matching one of our standards, given that their hardware is designed for AI, is basically zero because our systems are absolutely awful for AI processing.

If scrapcode IS AI based, then it would need to study and tailor itself to be able to migrate onto our systems, and it would find that our systems aren't capable of supporting the level of complexity required for intelligent scrapcode to exist in the first place

Either way, that puts us in a position where our equipment cannot host scrapcode, but can detect it.

So we could develop a Noospheric condom, which would prevent AdMech from becoming infected by scrapcode when examining infected systems.

[vast frigate]

or it could connect from a remote position and access our webs]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[storm jungle]

Damn, what a warzone i missed

[open marsh]

I keep reading "Noospheric condom"

Thats not something I ever expected to read

[gaunt vector]

I doubt its something Pseudonymous expected to unironically argue in favour of either

[vagrant osprey]

ngl, I might be too jaded to have expectations.

[storm jungle]

Man mechanicus is wacky

[vagrant osprey]

We live in a world with real-life nurgle cultists who don't even get cool warpy shit for it.

[gaunt vector]

fair enough

[vagrant osprey]

Fuck, more people died in World War I than died in the Battle of Ullanor. Including the Orks.

And that was the point where the Emperor said "Well, lets throw a huge party because that's the worst Humanity will ever have to face in this Crusade"

[odd sparrow]

Numbers 40k water oil

[open marsh]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScifiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale

[vagrant osprey]

You don't need to tell me that.

I did the math for the population of a hive as part of my calculations for determining the population of Necromunda

And if the numbers 40k provides are even remotely accurate then humanity is doomed to die from people going their entire lives without ever meeting somebody outside their immediate family due to hives being so fucking empty :V

And scale isn't the ONLY problem here.

According to GW, that spire is 10-12 miles tall, and 50-100 miles wide.

Then again, GW has never been able to do anything to scale

[cerulean wagon]

idk how ur thinking people will struggle to find others

[vagrant osprey]

I did the math.

[cerulean wagon]

"millions if not billions" populates that pretty good

[open marsh]

^

[vagrant osprey]

Except it doesn't.

At all

[cerulean wagon]

it does lmao

[vagrant osprey]

The SMALLEST hive is described as being 10 miles tall, and 50 miles wide. Anything less and it doesn't count as a hive.

[cerulean wagon]

as a comparison

the united kingdom

is 242,495 km²

and houses 64 million people

[vagrant osprey]

There are 12,000 hives on Necromunda.

[cerulean wagon]

yes

millions per hive

[vagrant osprey]

The average building height in the UK is like 20ft

[cerulean wagon]

yes? this has nothing to do with heigh but density

[vagrant osprey]

double facepalms

[cerulean wagon]

if we assume it is roughyl the volume of a perfect cone

[vagrant osprey]

15,930 cubic miles per hive, yes.

Minimum

[primal tide]

Don't forget to subtract the big lava cone

And the giant vaulted ceilings

[cerulean wagon]

yes?

[vagrant osprey]

I'm picking minimum instead of average to account for that.

[open marsh]

And the massive spaces between building structures and how much open verticle space there is

[cerulean wagon]

even if there are only 1 million people

thats still 63 people per cubic mile

even with void spaces

[open marsh]

This is inside the hive

[primal tide]

You could float in there for years and only see your family

[cerulean wagon]

so

even in an exteme case

[vagrant osprey]

Do you understand how large a cubic mile is?

[open marsh]

There are tons of open space. With most of the usable spaces being factories and such, Hab units are very smuched together

[cerulean wagon]

that means that the hive city has the population density of ecuador

[storm jungle]

Okay so i dont get it; is the point that a hive city is so big that you'd never come across anyone else?

[cerulean wagon]

according to pseudo ye

[open marsh]

You calculated raw size, not how the hive is built. hab units are in specific and condensed parts of the hive.

[vagrant osprey]

Hyperbole, but they're pretty fucking barren.

[storm jungle]

No they arent?

Literally 50+ people probably work in any building you'd pass

its that dense

[cerulean wagon]

even in an under populated of literaly only 1 million (remember the page says multiple billion specificly)

that is the population density of a country still managed

in an extreme case

[vagrant osprey]

Officially, the population of Hive Mortus was 40 million before the plague.

[open marsh]

"There are probably more people on Necromunda than have ever lived in the entire history of Terra up until the end of M2. An attempted census of Trazior Hive four thousand years ago revealed an estimated population of a billion in the upper habitation levels alone - no further attempt has been made to count Necromunda's population in Trazior or any other of the several thousand hives on the planet."

[cerulean wagon]

if it was 40million

that would place it at twice the population density of hong kong

assuming mortus is of average size

[vagrant osprey]

Ok, look, the surface area at ground level of a minimum-sized hive is 1,963 miles.

[primal tide]

If everyone in the hive is in your extended family, you could go a whole lifetime and never see anyone not in your family

[open marsh]

The hive nobles are probably all related somewhere along the line

[vagrant osprey]

New York City is 304 miles, with a population of 8.5 million.

[open marsh]

Family tree looking like a fence pole

[primal tide]

Like a tangled dna strand

[cerulean wagon]

lmao

[cerulean wagon]

yeah and new york is hella densly packed

[open marsh]

And in the upper hive habitation. Where the "nice" stuff is. has a billon people alone. In 1 hive.

[cerulean wagon]

so is hong kong for that matter

[open marsh]

The vast majority of a hive's population lives in the middle and lower (and under) hives

[vagrant osprey]

If the hive had the same average building height of NYC, which is about 1.5 stories tall, it would have a lower population density.

[final spruce]

Well those 40 millions are our 1%

[cerulean wagon]

thats

not how population density works pseudo

its literaly measured over surface area

squad for modern cities

[vagrant osprey]

In real life we don't have fucking arcologies.

[cerulean wagon]

in a hive u do it cubed

cause its vertical

[vagrant osprey]

YES.

[cerulean wagon]

and even then

that is how i calculated it

and even with 1 million people

its 63 per cubed mile

CUBED

THAT IS

VERTICAL

INCLUDED

[storm jungle]

𝘾 𝙍 𝙊 𝙒 𝘿 𝙀 𝘿

[cloud kindle]

Its 40k

We aint gotta explain shit

[cerulean wagon]

with 40 million

that goes up to 1200 people per cube

which is the average density of the vatican

[open marsh]

Where is the 40 million thing coming from?

[cerulean wagon]

even with the vatican being measured in squares

[cerulean wagon]

his prior statement somewhere above

about hive mortus

or w/e

[vagrant osprey]

The vatican has a population density of 4935 people per square mile.

[open marsh]

Trazior Hive has a billion in the upper hive alone

"The planet's capital is Hive Primus (also known as the Palatine), one of Necromunda's many hive cities. The hive, the largest on Necromunda, is enormous in size, reaching from the surface to some 10 miles into the air, and from surface level to roughly 2.8 miles into the ground (although only the first 1.3 miles are habitable by humans)"

[cerulean wagon]

https://i.imgur.com/p2SxJmO.png

no it doesnt

[vagrant osprey]

Ah, I made the mistake of trusting google.

[barren tapir]

What?! I think this is quite wrong...

[open marsh]

There are several thousand hives on Necromunda

[barren tapir]

Oh, yeah, i just read it... Weird imo

[vagrant osprey]

There's a few thousand hive clusters, and each cluster contains up to 12 hives.

[barren tapir]

There are approximately a thousand hive clusters on Necromunda
I think i have miscalculated the scale of hives...

[open marsh]

But Necromunda still pales in comparison to Terra. On Terra, Im not sure if there is even any ground left visible

[barren tapir]

Yep, there is a law that prohibit to build near 10 km from the imperial palace walls iirc

[open marsh]

Ah okay

[vagrant osprey]

The population of Terra is officially 1 trillion.

But I could see them not even bothering to count.

[storm jungle]

Terra is literally coruscant right?

Just more grimdark

[open marsh]

Yup

[storm jungle]

Honestly yeah i can see it

[storm jungle]

Also found a cool deviantart version

jesus christ the LIGHTS

[barren tapir]

AH, i misremembered, it isn't given a number regarding walls not build zone

Just that you cannot build close to the walls

[storm jungle]

Also yeee its more about "stay the fuck away from the palace"

[vagrant osprey]

If you're close enough for Custodes to shoot you, the Custodes will shoot you.

There's no law, it's just that's the way it works.

:V

[gaunt vector]

the custodes have 0 trust

[open marsh]

Except 100% trust in the emperor and each other

[gaunt vector]

yeah

They are sick of astartes tho. everytime they have to pay attention to astartes, loyalist or otherwise its only because they have managed to bring deamons with them

its just "ah these idiots again"

[barren tapir]

House Van Saar's history is tied heavily to ancient beings known as the Iron Lords, whose technology has been scavenged by Van Saar in the past. In M40 the Iron Lords sought to infiltrate the house and dispatched shapeshifting cybernetic agents to achieve this aim, creating a tech-war that saw the Archeoteks hunt down the cybernetica. Who these beings are exactly is unclear, but they are likely Necrons.
Yo what?! Van Saar hinted to have scavenged necron tech and exchanged shots with them too... Although that seem a very up in the air theory

[storm jungle]

I like the random addition of "but eh they're probably necrons" at the end

[vagrant osprey]

One of the houses has a damaged STC that emits a bunch of radiation and doesn't work right

[storm jungle]

Ye thats Van Saar

cancer for everyone

[vagrant osprey]

Cancer for everyone, and better guns for their gangs

Because they are idiots who don't know how to use what they have ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[final spruce]

Too bad the skitarii already have that going

[vagrant osprey]

Plan A: Buy Terminator armor. Use Terminator armor to use STC

Plan B: Use servitors to activate the STC

[storm jungle]

I never got the fact that they got clear evidence of having archeotech; as in their members literally wear them. What happens if they obviously get their face blown up, that stuff just gets nabbed by the other gangs doesnt it.

[vagrant osprey]

Plan C: Use it yourself without protection

Yes. Yes, it does.

Plan D: Shove the STC in a big lead box and use a stick to poke the controls

[cloud kindle]

Unless the magos on that world opens his eyes

[vagrant osprey]

*their

[storm jungle]

I meant as in its kind of a waste. Its like having a group of knights in gold.

Some peasants kill them and their stuff just gets pried and stolen from their corpses lol

[cloud kindle]

Then they will prob demand that the imperial fists go and help them reclaim them

[storm jungle]

[cloud kindle]

Cause the fists are at the same hive as house saar yeh?

[vagrant osprey]

Primus? Yes.

[storm jungle]

I thought they were in orbit

not on the actual planet?

[vagrant osprey]

To be fair, I wouldn't steal clothing worn exclusively by people with obvious massive tumors

[storm jungle]

lmao

good point

[cloud kindle]

They occupy the highest reaches of the hive i thought

[vagrant osprey]

The fists have a spire.

It's upper-mid-hive, IIRC

They have recruiting rights on the planet, and nobles are TERRIBLE recruits

Not for Astartes.

[cloud kindle]

Too soft and squishy

[vagrant osprey]

Too prone to backstabbing and plotting.

[cloud kindle]

That too

[vagrant osprey]

And making other people do the killing

That's why they tend to become Commisars and Inquisitors

[barren tapir]

I think that some info aren't put on the lex page though... I think that Van Saar are less dumb than the other people, they simple lack resources

[vagrant osprey]

They can be less dumb and still be dumb.

[barren tapir]

The duke of the Van Saar in m41 is called otto van saar XXII

[open marsh]

Poor Van Saars. They are DAoT humanity trapped in 40k

[vagrant osprey]

If they were DAoT humanity they would probably be making better use of that STC

[open marsh]

Well they are DAoT humanity. its revealed in the "House of Artiface" book.

They dont overuse their STC because they dont want the Mechanicus to find out they have it

They arent stupid

[fallow drum]

Hello friends I am looking for help to track down a particular book

Basics of what I know: A agricultural planet is attacked by orcs and most of them at first act like cowards but a Astartes or a group of them go down to fight. They know the Astartes will survive but they will die but decide to stand their ground and fight none the less in the end. The Astartes is moved by this and vows that when he returns to the rest of his legion he will inscribe their names alongside those of the honored dead of his legion

Some details may have been wrong IDK I did not read it hence why I am looking for it

[novel fulcrum]

could be Helsreach that you're looking for

Black Templars Astartes deploy to the planet of Armageddon to fight against the WAAAGH! taking place there. The greenskins sieged a Temple in the Hive for something like two months, and when they finally broke through, all the mortals started to run, but Grimaldus held his ground and reaffirmed the resolve of everyone there.

[cloud kindle]

black templars are weird

sometimes they are written as compassionate to mortals and other times they are written to disdain them

[novel fulcrum]

yeah, just like how they refuse to have psykers among their ranks, but they consider other psykers to be incredibly holy

they're very self-contradicting in that way

[open marsh]

all the mortals started to run

Andrej of the Steel Legion: "Am I a joke to you?"

[novel fulcrum]

In my defense, I haven’t read the book myself. I just have a rough synopsis

[hollow sonnet]

iirc the character development arc for grimaldus was from having disdain for his given roll (alot of bitching about having to go to helsreach) to fully accepting it and defending helsreach

its been a while since ive read the book tbf

and then he gives the celestial lions some cool black templar relics after they lost a bunch of their chapter to "ork snipers"

[novel fulcrum]

man, the celestial lions are definitely my favorite chapter aesthetically, and i can vibe with sticking to their principles, even if it means they get assailed by 'ork snipers'

[open marsh]

To explain. Trooper Andrej, stormtrooper of the Armageddon Steel Elite, was the last remaining person fighting at Grimaldus' side. Even after all the other Astartes had been slain. Despite being a "mortal", he was taking on Orkz in hand to hand combat with nothing left but his combat knife. Only being stopped when the temple finally collapsed. He survived this, despite not even having power armour

There was also Dock Master Tomas. A civilian conscript who fought until he died. Being one of the very last ones slain

[coarse mirage]

He wants to live, yes? Wants to find beautiful woman and marry her, yes?

[open marsh]

About that beautiful woman...

[coarse mirage]

Sssh!

[open marsh]

crys manly tears

[coarse mirage]

Space Russian is strong

[open marsh]

Dude was so torn up, even Grimadlus' brickwall of emotion saw it

God I love Andrej

Marked KIA on a monument by the high chaplin of the Black Templars? That might mess with his pay? Well better just climb aboard this ship and go demand he strike my name from that record!

Everyone else when addressing Grimaldus:
"My Lord! Greetings to you honourable Reclusiarch!"

Andrej:
"Oh heyyy! Grimadlus! Its a fine day, yes?"

[coarse mirage]

Battle bros

[open marsh]

Andrej was treating Gimaldus like that even before they became battle bros. Its just he refered to him as "Templar"

Andrej just gives 0 fucks. Sign his name on his paycheck

[coarse mirage]

If you know your life is expendable there's no need to bother being nice about it

[open marsh]

not Andrej. He intended to live. He just knew the best way to survive is to kill every enemy in his way

he also knew how brain dead the administratum is

hence why he just marched aboard that black templar ship and started making demands. Sure it might seem like suicide, but there was a chance it would work. where as if he was listed as officially KIA, he would starve to death as the administratum would no longer pay him

[storm jungle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/m0iicc/excerptthe_gate_of_bones_the_complicated/

@barren tapir Custodes having none of the sororitas but slightly tolerating them fresh off of the cursed subreddits depths

[barren tapir]

Indeed, already saw and saved... Vychellian is VIP

[storm jungle]

damn it

also the "Its just a cloak" part tho lol

[barren tapir]

Yep, or when he need to be told to be silent because otherwise he would keep saying how much crazy the sob are...

[storm jungle]

That was great too but the opening introductions might be even better

"OH PRAISE BE TO THE PROTECTORS OF BIG E, THE MIGHTIEST-"

"Yes yes, hello to you too."

[barren tapir]

I prefer this:

‘Faith is a poison,’ Vychellan said. ‘The Emperor was right to suppress it. Faith empowers the enemy, and enchains mankind. It is blind. It reduces us to beasts.’

I think vychellan is probably the wisest of the group of custodians there

And that quote is extremely true...

[storm jungle]

Alas, not much they can do until Big E comes back. At best they can slap around a priest or two if they annoy them i guess

[barren tapir]

Sadly true, but is also true that they don't really care, unless some priest say that the emperor should be killed so he can ascend to greater god-hood, then they would care

They think only to protect big e, nothing else is important, people disregard everything that big e tried to accomplish? No problem... They don't even care very much about people seceding from the imperium, as long that doesn't put in danger big e

[plucky moth]

r/atheism must be protected at all costs

[barren tapir]

I never saw that reddit... Is that place really awful?

[plucky moth]

no idea

[primal tide]

It is really bad

[storm jungle]

Its so bad that proper atheists set up a 2nd subreddit iirc

[primal tide]

It was worse back when they had a civil war over whether they could post memes or not

Fun to point and laugh at tho

[storm jungle]

Damn they're that protective of him arent they

[barren tapir]

Yep, that is the thing they are made for, they aren't like SM that are made to conquest and offence in general, they are made for a singular purpose, to protect the emperor

That doesn't mean that they think or enjoy only that though... One of them like to play musical instruments

[gaunt vector]

I just pictured a custodes going "doot" on a trumpet. Thank you for making my day.

[open marsh]

I'm imagining a Custodes playing a saxophone

[final spruce]

I mean they are encouraged to pursuit hobbies such as art

[novel fulcrum]

what if it turned out that gnosticism was true in the 40k universe and the divinity was inside humanity all along would that be wacky or what

[open marsh]

...40k is just a grand story about the power of love and friendship

[gaunt vector]

well it is British anime

[open marsh]

It needs more beans on toast

How can you call yourself british without beans on toast

[gaunt vector]

its a horror setting. that's why they revoked our beans. to spook brits. as a brit, I can confirm that a universe without beans on toast is spooky

[cloud kindle]

Fuck

[gaunt vector]

also, now that u mention it, I suddenly want beans on toast

[cloud kindle]

Now i want beans on toast

[gaunt vector]

lmao

[gaunt vector]

Beans on toast appears to be more British than I had realised XD

[gaunt vector]

yes.

[cloud kindle]

Mentioning beans on toast gets the poms and aussies hungry

[crisp heath]

beans belong in soup

or chili con carne

[gaunt vector]

or on toast

I will fight you

but I also agree with your placement of the beans

[cloud kindle]

Beans belong everywhere

[open marsh]

Beans (preferabbly light kidney beans) belong in chili, with diced tomatoes, and ground beef, with McCormick's chili spice mix.

Stirred well and Simmered for 10 minutes

[cloud kindle]

Im gonna go home

And put some heinz baked beans on toast

[storm jungle]

good man

[open marsh]

Im shopped for stuff to make chili

[storm jungle]

Speaking of beans

I always thought this marine was opening a can of them

then i think someone told me it was beer

[cloud kindle]

He opened it with his beak

[open marsh]

That's an apoth putting a proginoid gland into a cannister

[storm jungle]

Really?

[open marsh]

Yes

[storm jungle]

Huh

ah well ill still roll with beans

[gaunt vector]

progenoid beans

[cloud kindle]

Mmmm

Space marine beans

[gaunt vector]

Also I love the idea that apothecaries keep their progeinoids in a can. how many times do you think that can has been inadvertantly thrown instead of a grenade?

[open marsh]

A tyranid's favorite snacc

[crisp heath]

beans on toast are disgostang

i will not argue further

[cloud kindle]

Good because it is a very bad take

Nice warm beans on fresh toast

Mmmmm

[plucky moth]

I like me beans

like me toast

simple as

[cloud kindle]

Ever since someone mentioned beans and toast i have a massive craving

Have to last a couple more hours

[coarse mirage]

Ever just drank a liter of milk?

[median sundial]

Who in the 40k lore is closest to saying the sentence "I'd die for your sins in a heartbeat if it meant I never had to talk to your ever again."

[cloud kindle]

Idk but rylanor was very much fuck you and your small dog

[median sundial]

Sounds like something a short tempered Soroitas'd say as an insult.

[gaunt vector]

oh I will argue further. You are wrong

[crisp heath]

didn't you admit you were british? all your opinions on food are automatically wrong and invalid.

[gaunt vector]

sounds like you have far too much salt to comment on food at the moment

[crisp heath]

certainly not more than you do since you folks never fucking use it in food

[gaunt vector]

we don't need to.

why would you put salt on beans on toast?

you have to use "on" twice

that's stupidd

almost as stupid as putting two Ds on stupid because you can't type properly

[crisp heath]

"we don't have to" says the nation that will eat unsalted potatoes

even your bread isn't salted properly

[cloud kindle]

Pfft only using normal salt

Chicken salt is the salt of gods and kings

[open marsh]

sweats in American, whose bread has so much sugar that Ireland has declared it a pastry

[final spruce]

Isn't American pure beef patties like 50% for the appellation pure ?

[gaunt vector]

salt in bread is good... SOMETIMES. If i get a loaf of warbertons and its salty, that sh*t is going out of the window

[final spruce]

Like only 50% pure beef ?

[gaunt vector]

thefuk

[crisp heath]

what is warbertons

[gaunt vector]

british bread company

[crisp heath]

you mean this?

[gaunt vector]

I mispelled it

I am an idiot

[crisp heath]

that's not bread. that's a crime against humanity.

[gaunt vector]

no its not, we would know.

[crisp heath]

oh trust me, you're the last who'd know

[gaunt vector]

yeah our history is far too shady not to know at this point

but that is not a crime

[crisp heath]

this is bread

[gaunt vector]

yes

[thorn scarab]

This is bred

[gaunt vector]

also even offtopic is closer to discussing 40k than we are at this point 😄

concidering there are even planetary govenours who will probably never see a single loaf of bread in their lifetimes

[cloud kindle]

We are discussing if humanity can still make beans on toast in 40k

[gaunt vector]

true

future Britain absolutely created an entire STC just for perfecting beans on toast

and an entire catalogue of STCs for tea

[cloud kindle]

Ah yes

The Adeptus Britannia

[gaunt vector]

yey

[gaunt vector]

also yes

[cloud kindle]

It is lead by a woman only known by her first name

Elizabeth

[open marsh]

Probably. Everything in the U.S. is watered down, yet the companies have enough pull to get the legal language changed to say it s "pure X"

[gaunt vector]

you know how human faith effects things?

and the joke about everytime we say "long live the queen" she does indeed live longer

that would acttually work for the Adeptus Britannia in 40k

[open marsh]

Britian is a hive city now

Lundun

[gaunt vector]

also "God save the queen" her soul is untouchable now

[gaunt vector]

knife crime so bad it was the Night Lords' first ever recruiting ground

or more specifically, the prisons were

[open marsh]

Fun fact: even up until atleast the Great Crusade, the Great Redwood Forests of California survived

[gaunt vector]

howinthefuk

im impressed

[open marsh]

Well the trees are taller than titans

They kinda hard to kill

They can grow up to 116 meters. While even an Imperator Titan is only around 50 meters

So yes, you could theorectically camouflage a titan to hide in a forest

[gaunt vector]

unless you look from above

but yeah

camoflaged titan

[open marsh]

Stealth Titans when?

[gaunt vector]

is not a concept I ever thought credible even by 40k standards

[crisp heath]

"Man. Why is that one giant branch glowing?"

[gaunt vector]

Daot probably

[open marsh]

Well all Titans are DAoT pretty much

Are there any records of Titans that were made later?

[gaunt vector]

yeah, there will have been that one spooki titan that everyone was annoyed by

[open marsh]

?

Oh wait

Psi-Titans

I forgot about them

Yeah those are newer I think

[gaunt vector]

I reckon the spook titan was an AI that just sat out the Men of Iron rebellion and is now just vibing somewhere comically obvious

[open marsh]

Tho their weapons are DAoT

Well

They are kinda newer'

[gaunt vector]

like, walk around the imperial palace and bang your head on it levels of comically obvious

[open marsh]

Naw he ded

[gaunt vector]

the big E just kinda remixed a warlord by being the big E to create them. the Big E had probably seen it done before

[open marsh]

Pledged himself to Chaos, so the Grey Knights destroyed him

[gaunt vector]

in previous anti eldar wars

[open marsh]

Probably

[gaunt vector]

I know which titan u are refering to, the Castigator

that thing was NOT stealthy

[open marsh]

fires DAEMONS from its gatling cannon

[gaunt vector]

as you do

[open marsh]

On Darktide. I hope an upgrade option we get is combi-weapons

[gaunt vector]

I pity the fool in charge of making sure that gun was loaded properly

[gaunt vector]

a lasgun with a lasersight is a combi weapon

[open marsh]

Oh hoho "lasgun iz flashlight" much funny. awards humor trophi

[gaunt vector]

thank you, I shall put this on my "trophies that remind me I am still an asshole" shelf

[gaunt vector]

combiplasma

usualy a Dark Angels thing right?

[open marsh]

Yeah, its most common with them, because they can plasma spam to rival the tau, if they wish

[gaunt vector]

what combiweapons do guard get?

I can't say I have seen any

would be cool tho

[open marsh]

Honestly. Im not sure if they have any combi-weapons

[gaunt vector]

hecc

[open marsh]

Because that requires actual skill to make. Instead of "Hehe. Gun factory go brrrrr"

[final spruce]

They don't in their whole codex

[gaunt vector]

yeah probably

[gaunt vector]

oof

[final spruce]

Heck even base SM get grenade launchers under their bolters

[plucky moth]

they get lasguns with flashlights

[open marsh]

Oh in older stuff, like in 6e, they got Combi-Launchers

Lasguns with underslung krak grenade launchers

[gaunt vector]

I already made and got bomk'd for that joke

[plucky moth]

[cerulean wagon]

[gaunt vector]

wat

[final spruce]

I hate that bullpup

[gaunt vector]

bullpup something?

[cerulean wagon]

lasgun

[gaunt vector]

I do not hate bullpup

but what

[open marsh]

"Fuck you" bullpups your lasgun

[gaunt vector]

is

that

[final spruce]

Literally and I hate it

[plucky moth]

what on earth is the point of bullpup-ing a lasgun

[gaunt vector]

lighter?

[open marsh]

Its a Accatran Pattern MkIVe used by the Elysian Drop Troops

Its made to be more easily carried by drop troops

[gaunt vector]

ah that actually makes sense

[open marsh]

They also have the Accatran Pattern MkIVc

Whats the difference between the two, I have no idea

[final spruce]

I mean tank drivers already have a lasgun with a folding stock

[open marsh]

The Elysians are based on french paratroopers and the FAMAS they used

[gaunt vector]

yeah that does look kinda FAMASy

its deffo not an L85

[final spruce]

Yeah nah

[gaunt vector]

I want to see a lasgun P90 now

actually no

I really dont

[final spruce]

It's horrendous

[cerulean wagon]

galaxy pattern or bust

[gaunt vector]

yeah

[cloud kindle]

A flashlight attachment to a lasgun makes it twin linked

[open marsh]

Mars Pattern is best

[gaunt vector]

by the emperor wtf is that Ryza pattern

[open marsh]

The lasgun from the 1st edition

[gaunt vector]

yeah that looks BJYLORKED enough to be 1st edition

[final spruce]

And it looks alieny

Is nice

[gaunt vector]

why do those humans look so squat?

[plucky moth]

the mars and lucius are so pretty

[gaunt vector]

yes

[open marsh]

There is also an AK like lasgun

[gaunt vector]

but I still prefer the Galaxy

[open marsh]

Necromunda pattern

[gaunt vector]

Kalasnikov

[open marsh]

Also on combi-weapons. House Van Saar, with their DAoT tech has the craziest

Like they have a pistol thats a: laspistol, plasmapistol, and meltapistol in 1

[gaunt vector]

good luck lifting that

with 1 hand at least

[gaunt vector]

Van Saar "how many varieties of death can we fit into a gun?"

their STC: "yes"

[open marsh]

I love House Van Saar. They are a reminant of the DAoT

[open marsh]

They were DAoT colonists that set out to colonize necromunda, but got lost in the warp. Only to reappear and crash land on it in M35

[gaunt vector]

House Van Saar are on the DAOT version of this

[gaunt vector]

oh wow

thats amazing

[open marsh]

Yeah

Even in 40k, they remember their roots. And have an actual understanding of how their tech works

Like while they pretend to be all "oh merciful machine god!" when the tech-priests are around. They laugh behind their backs

[gaunt vector]

lmao

[open marsh]

Those who live in their hives actually have really nice living

[vast frigate]

The tech priests laugh about their cancer inducing flashlights though

[open marsh]

With their workshops more like artisan studios than the grinding sweatshops of others

[vast frigate]

You win some you lose some

[open marsh]

With the most recent retcons, those seem to be more like the....flawed cast offs they give to the gangers

while the actual good shit gets sold off world

[vast frigate]

yeah apparently

ive read the newer books

the older members are the ones that have the most issues because they used to use the radiation wielding ones themselves

[open marsh]

Yeah. which implies that they have succeed in their mission to repair their STC

to a degree atleast

So that only some of their tech leaks radiation

But yeah. The Van Saar are awesome

They can outfit lowly gangers with tech that rivals that of the Custodes

[vast frigate]

Nearly rivals

The one opposing issue is that the custodes have that hand crafted artifice with ancient written blueprints and explanations

theyre the only ones that pretty much understand tech on functioning principles

[open marsh]

Well it certainly matches that of the Astartes. If not slightly outclasses it

What with the hardlight shields

[vast frigate]

I mean in some forms yeah

though the custodes themselves are of course part of the weapons

[open marsh]

And they can actively make grav-weapons. Tech completely lost to the rest of the Imperium

[vast frigate]

i mean, the moment you pick up a custodes gene-locked weapon......

thats not gonna end well for yta

[crisp heath]

Aren't there a few custodes weapons out in the wild?

[open marsh]

I only know of 1, used by a Chaos Space Marine that broke the gene lock

While some fans like to think that Asterion Moloc's "Black Spear" is a Custodes weapon. Its been shown to not be. As a Custodes saw it and comments that while it "similar" to their own weapons, it appears far older. So it likely an Age of Strife or DAoT precursor to Guardian Spears

[storm jungle]

Im late to the conversation but whats a gene-locked weapon?

does the machine spirit of it just not allow you to pull the trigger?

[open marsh]

If you aint got X genes. when you grab it The weapon kills you

[storm jungle]

WUT

like, are we talking disintegrate as the weapon stays good?

or are we talking big explosion

[open marsh]

yeah. like when some tech-priests tried to activate the Soul Spear, a weapon of the Soul Drinkers chapter, and relic of their primarch. genelocked to their genetic code

It basically sent out an explosion that killed everyone in the lab except for 1 who was smart enough to take cover instead of look closer

[storm jungle]

Huh, neat

[open marsh]

But yeah, a CSM. I forget which one. Managed to get a Custodes spear and actually managed to break the genelock. Taking the weapon as his own

[hallow apex]

Argel Tal

Abbadon also posses Custudian weaponry he can unlock.

[vast frigate]

Theres also van saar gene locks

they imprint your specific personal DNA

grab the gun, it detonates all of its amunitions

[hallow apex]

Though ADB wrote both characters

[open marsh]

Oh where is that at?

[hallow apex]

Talon of Horus.

[vast frigate]

do note, this specific gene lock is more widely produced in the imperium anyway

[open marsh]

Yeah the Van Saar isnt big on their tech getting out to those who they dont want it to be. Because what happens if the Mechanicus finds out what they have

[vast frigate]

mmmhm

also, theres the generic Gene-lock made by mars

which sorta does the same, it just shocks your hand off or some shit

[storm jungle]

Thats not custodian tho

[hallow apex]

It’s aboard the Vengeful Spirit. Iskandar Khayon picks up a Custodian Halberd and Abbandon asks if Khayon would like him to unlock it.

[vast frigate]

some heavy localized damage pretty much, as well as rendering the gun inoperable

[storm jungle]

its just an artificer weapon isnt it

oh that lol

[hallow apex]

No. It was a Custodian halberd.

[storm jungle]

A halberd belonging to a custodian?

I find that hard to believe good sir!

[vast frigate]

i mean

they have: Poleaxes, spears, spearguns

Murder super death pistols

[storm jungle]

you forgot gunswords

[vast frigate]

i dont see a halberd being weird to them

[storm jungle]

because why not

[vast frigate]

Flamethrower swords

[storm jungle]

also yeah im just memeing

[vast frigate]

anyway the point is

Stabby stick efficient if big man does the stabby

[storm jungle]

Hm clearly a guardsman weapon

[vast frigate]

yes of course

Billy used that when he was bashing the squirrel out of his boot

[hallow apex]

The only examples of Custodian weapons being unlocked by an Astartes I can think of are examples written by ABD, so until another author does it, it’s SKUB in my book

[open marsh]

"Well thats still not proof that he can break the gene lock! he only said he could! He didnt actually do it!" 😛
/s

Dilara knows who I am talking about

[vast frigate]

Whomst

Wait no i know nvm

[storm jungle]

Basically any annoying lore nerd

"LET ME GET THIS HORUS HERESY BOOK TO PROVE YOU WRONG"

[vast frigate]

''my argument is valid because yours is only 99% true''

suck a teat

[plucky moth]

don't have to tell me twice

[storm jungle]

[hallow apex]

Dilara big chungus nerd. ‘Ackshually..’

[open marsh]

I actually had a similar argument on the DA server, where I noticed language in the 9e Dark Angels codex supplement

that seems to imply the possibility of Primaris in termie armour

[vast frigate]

👀

careful there

cant have them 30k elitists see that

[vagrant osprey]

Look, we all know Primaris terminators are going to happen.

[open marsh]

Despite primaris being part of it now, the codex says that the DA still can arm their entire 1st company in termie.

It actually makes 0 mention of MkX, despite referencing that deathwing (in lore) can take both Land Raiders and Repulsors

[vast frigate]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

perhaps considering uh, termi armor is a tad fucking big

[open marsh]

I wish they would

[vast frigate]

a primaris marine fits inside of it without much trouble

remove foot plate

[open marsh]

Giant space marines have already existed: Ranulf of the Space Wolves and Tyberos the Red Wake of the Charcaradons.

And they were termie just fine

[vast frigate]

''brother, just dont lean on the toes''
Why brother?
''Well, bother Nottaron learned the hard way, and thats how we know you shouldnt''

[vagrant osprey]

Terminator armor is power armor for your power armor, and it was originally sized for baseline humans.

[open marsh]

It can still be made for normal humans

[vast frigate]

It was in fact, repair and salvage/dangerous EVA suits

[vagrant osprey]

It's not archeotech; they can size it to fit.

[storm jungle]

Are primaris terminators actually gonna be a thing? Terminators are like one of the most iconic units in 40k

[vast frigate]

if we get upscaled PROPER terminator models with tha

im all for it

[storm jungle]

cue the dwarf terminators from the spacehulk poster

[vast frigate]

get me my terminator still being a head taller than a primaris marine goddamnit

[vagrant osprey]

Dreadnauts aren't archeotech either, except for... The Contemptor, was it?

[vast frigate]

The contemptor's atomantic shielding i believe cant be recreated

Yeah the power generators they make nowadays in the Perium cant handle the downsized systems of the atomantic shielding and some other gubbinz

[vagrant osprey]

IIRC, contemptors used thermic reactors.

[open marsh]

With their smooth, velvity, beats.....

kill me

please

[vast frigate]

Would you deny such pristine artifice access to your domain?

[storm jungle]

Santodes where are you when we need you

[cloud kindle]

look upon my smooth auramite

[open summit]

My O I L E D joints!

[leaden herald]

In the Dawn of War 2 games, the Blood Ravens have some Custodian wargear in their possession

[crisp heath]

Blood raven

Professional stealing boi

[open marsh]

Noone:

Blood Ravens:

[final spruce]

looks good ngl

[crisp heath]

Yeah

[leaden herald]

well they probably could do that, I mean they stole Perturabo's weapon, if they can break into a daemon primarchs world and steal his weapon, they could break into Macragge and steal Guilliman

[open marsh]

The probably stole it when Pert was out and about

[open marsh]

Yep Im aware

[crisp heath]

Not weapon of Iron Hand Primarch ?

[open marsh]

It used to be

[cloud kindle]

it was crafted by fulgrim for ferrus

then lorgar stole it cause he is a prick

[open marsh]

Fulgrim made it for Ferrus, but took it back when he killed Ferrus. Fulgrim then gave it to Horus, and Horus gave it to Perturabo, before the Blood Ravens somehow stole it from Perturabo

Oh Lorgar stole it?

[crisp heath]

XD

[cloud kindle]

i dont know anymore

let me double check

[open marsh]

I think Fulgrim just took it and offered it to Horus

[crisp heath]

Its not the head of Ferrus ?

[open marsh]

?

[crisp heath]

Fulgrim don't give the head of Ferrus to Horus

[cloud kindle]

okay it was given to perturabo

[open marsh]

He gave both

hammer & head

[crisp heath]

XD

[open marsh]

[crisp heath]

Both better

[warm hare]

So a lore question for all you nerds here
Could the alpha legion replace a whole chapter of space marines from the 13th cursed founding without anyone noticing cause no first founding chapters would want to associate with that cursed founding?

[peak hamlet]

Thats a little too much, even for them

[warm hare]

We are talking about the alpha legion
If they can get more of their people within the imperium as master infiltrators they would

[peak hamlet]

But not a whole chapter

Thats too much

[cloud kindle]

not to mention the alpha legion is mostly just warbands

[warm hare]

Hmmm well there is one way to do it
Not all chapters where up to full strength at the indomitus period of the lore

Like a certain group of depressed marines

And pretty sure even chaos warbands still have a gene connection to eachother that makes them able to form to almost legion strength when needed

[peak hamlet]

No, they rival against each other most of the time

[warm hare]

Most
Not allways

Plus know how much fuckery those hydra bois do to confuse people like the stuff alfarius did to dorn

[peak hamlet]

I think people overrate how good the alpha legion is when it comes to disguise.

It has become more of a meme by now

[warm hare]

I just go more based of the horus heresy really
Ain't like creed levels of meme since yeah not even I think that rediculess of him

But the possibility is there considering how bad the imperium keeps track of things, how the cursed founding was seen as and as well doesn't need much to change the design of armour to hide what you are

Plus it has been confirmed that there are periods of time where the imperium doesn't even know the death of a chapter for many years until some signs are given back

[prime kernel]

so guys

How long do you guys think the imperium will hold out for ?

[dim totem]

Longer than you heretic

[prime kernel]

oh no

seriously though the imperium is currently being attacked from all sides.

and its also split in half

[dim totem]

And has been for millenia

[prime kernel]

true

but that was without the necrons finally actually waking up. Cadia not having exploded and gone the way of the dodo, tyranids invading from above and below and then theirs that annoying rift that split the galaxy intwain

[dim totem]

But that was before the return of big smurf no?

[prime kernel]

wasnt it during ?

[dim totem]

https://tenor.com/view/papa-smurf-the-smurfs-working-out-workout-weightlifting-gif-20131434

I dunno I'm not a things knower

[prime kernel]

Also as far as im concerned all rowboat can do is entrench what he already has. Although i think he is currently on a crusade against the necrons

Cause their destroying chaos by basicly turning off the warp.

[mint hill]

Imperium will hold out as long as the narrative determines it needs to.

[prime kernel]

Which is a problem

[mint hill]

I mean, you look at the Tau empire, there's literally no reason it shouldn't be crushed outright by the Imperium due to it's size.

[prime kernel]

i think the only excuse they have is because the imperium has better shit to do.

[mint hill]

The narrative just says "The Tau empire are too small to manage all the resources needed to do so."

[prime kernel]

they launched a tiny crusade at it

once

[mint hill]

I mean, all they have to do is, just virus bomb every planet in Tau space and claimt he worlds in a thousand years or so

Imperium doesn't need it for living space.

[prime kernel]

yeah but that stuff be expensive

Then again just send out a battlebarge on stealth mode

and do some old fashioned nuking

[storm jungle]

As long as it keeps making money

[prime kernel]

yeah fair

[storm jungle]

as Big E himself said the Imperium is going to lose, its just a matter of time

[prime kernel]

Well thats depressing

[storm jungle]

Yeeee let me get the quote

[prime kernel]

Makes sense though.

Honestly the way it see it in the end it will probably be the necron and the tyranids duking it out in a galaxy sized war

[storm jungle]

‘The war is over, Diocletian. Win or lose, Horus has damned us all. Mankind will share in his ignorance until the last man
or woman draws the species’ last breath. The warp will forever be a cancer in the heart of all humans. The Imperium may last a hundred years, or a thousand, or ten thousand. But it will fall, Diocletian. It will fall. The shining path is lost to us. Now we rage against the dying of the light.’

[prime kernel]

welp

thats grimdark for ya.

[storm jungle]

welp indeed

ngl though it doesnt really matter since GW doesnt respect their own lore much

the imperium is literally on the top of the foodchain rn thanks to the primaris lol

[prime kernel]

oh

lol

Gotta ask though can 1 company of space marines take over a planet ?

and lets use a hiveworld as an example

[storm jungle]

Honestly up to the planet

but its not out the realm of possibilities

[prime kernel]

fair enough

I wonder what other primarch is next up to being revived.

If i where a betting man

id say imperial fists.

[dim totem]

Hey stop ruining my day

[prime kernel]

depressing right ?

[storm jungle]

Yeeee like its depressing but remember

the imperium is pretty much still going to win until the setting runs out of steam

[prime kernel]

btw gotta ask. so the regimental system of the imperial guard states that a planet can only have 1 specific type of regiment correct ?

like only arty or only armored

[mint hill]

Realistically a company of marines would not be able to "take over" a functioning 'modern' world, as there's enough anti marine weapons that exists to eventuall get 'em all. But, they could definatly crush a lot of infrastructure and leadership that could cripple the planet.

[storm jungle]

@cerulean wagon

help em out here!

[final spruce]

It is correct, its a measure put in place after the Horus heresy so its easier to manage the regiment if it decides to turn traitor

[novel fulcrum]

well, i don't think it's true that each planet can only produce one specific kind of regiment

[final spruce]

For example the leman russ regiment turns traitor ? strap yourself some lascannons and have fun

[novel fulcrum]

just that each regiment is dedicated to a specific aspect of warfare instead of being well-rounded

[final spruce]

Nope that's what the codex says Zalgo

[cerulean wagon]

not entirely true

[prime kernel]

@final spruce very well, however i have seen multipule instances of some regiments ( like krieg) possesing both mechanized regiments as well as arty regiments. Are some worlds exempt from that ruling ?

[cerulean wagon]

they cant mix IG with navy

But a single world can put out any regiment type

[novel fulcrum]

so you're telling me that krieg only produce siege regiments? they never create infantry or armored transport or artillery units?

[cerulean wagon]

see cadia or catachan for their mix of different regiment types

[novel fulcrum]

^

[dim totem]

so you can't have voidsmen and guardsmen from the same planet? Doesn't seem correct

[final spruce]

Krieg is a specific one, like Valhalla because they are a remote world

So they must ask them to do everything

[dim totem]

We must get to the bottom of this

[novel fulcrum]

oh, so it just so happens that every important planet churning out regiments for the guard are all special exceptions

[cerulean wagon]

any world can do everything its just not every world tithes enough regiments to have variety

[novel fulcrum]

sure, planets are generally renowned for a specific type of regiment, but it's not all they have

[odd sparrow]

Cus diff planets need to have unique gimmicks for narrative

Done

[crisp heath]

https://tenor.com/view/codex-astartes-codex-astartes-the-codex-astartes-does-not-support-warhammer40k-gif-16148671

[cerulean wagon]

they may originate from the same planet but they wouldnt be part of the same command structure. they try qnd seperate the 2 as much as possible

[novel fulcrum]

yeah, the navy has their own officers separate from the guard

[dim totem]

This is no place your correct logic, heretic.

[novel fulcrum]

every actual planetary engagement that takes place is just a battlegroup that a given sector's general or similarly high-ranking officer in the conflict zone has arranged to work together under their command

[cerulean wagon]

So basically any planet can put out any regiment, it is just down to what that specific planet has access too resource wise

[dim totem]

https://youtu.be/MWNWYdSHGSQ

[cerulean wagon]

infantry is ofc the most common, if your world doesnt focus on military doctrine you may just put out infantry or siege regiments

but a more trained world like mordia, cadia or tallarn can have a regiment of any kind

[novel fulcrum]

yeah, if you're some penitent or newly-discovered world without high militarization, you probably just send boatloads of infantry

[crisp heath]

Everybody in a tank
Tallarn in a tank: GAZ GAZ GAZ