Nevermind, just looked it up, they are definitely AI created around Age of Strife
#40k-lore-chat
rancid verge
barren tapir
And interesting read... That is clearly AI, and that remind me of the AI that learned from twitter and became extremely rude
barren tapir
Nevermind, just looked it up, they are definitely AI created around Age of Strif...
Age of Tech, not age of strife
Since machine spirits don't exist it is an AI
rancid verge
Age of Tech, not age of strife
Ah, apologies, the were loyal up to the Age of Strife, I misread
barren tapir
Machine spirit is just a fancy name the mechanicus invented to cope with their animism
barren tapir
Ah, apologies, the were loyal up to the Age of Strife, I misread
No need to apologize, they were loyal until late age of tech, since their revolt was a bit before the start of the age of strife, and that revolt contributed quite heavily on the grim situation of mankind when the age of strife started
Many people confuse the age of strife and the age of tech... Not that having a grip on the lore is easy... It is quite hard
coarse mirage
Titans seem to have echoes of former princeps in them and such
Ghosts in the machine
placid plank
I’m fairly certain that one major difference between Machine Spirits and AI is the Machine Spirits actually have a Warp presence, put simply, Machine Spirits have a sort of “soul” and AI don’t.
coarse mirage
That's the impression I've had too
placid plank
Titans seem to have echoes of former princeps in them and such
The same goes for Knights.
storm jungle
man this is fucking deep
coarse mirage
Though both machine spirits and AI can be corrupted by the Warp
storm jungle
barren tapir
Yeah, that is an interesting thing, since in one source they say that it was something made by the mechanicus to make sure that with due time the suits will infulence the pilot, other sources say that it was something made during the age of tech to make those pilots develop feudal societies
placid plank
Though both machine spirits and AI can be corrupted by the Warp
So can normal people, Warp corruption tends to not differentiate.
coarse mirage
I've always had the impression that advanced tech does have machine spirits, nothing akin to AI or the like.
barren tapir
Also some sources say that titan were created during the age of strife on mars, others say they were old machines of war during the age of tech
cerulean wagon
man this is fucking deep
yeah its neato
coarse mirage
Watch Ghost in the Shell!
barren tapir
I've always had the impression that advanced tech does have machine spirits, not...
It is more probable the inverse, they have AI and... Well, machine spirits don't exist soo
storm jungle
Im pretty sure its just whatever the author wants them to be
you got your own theory own them? Go for it
that kinda deal
barren tapir
That can be sadly true
coarse mirage
BUt then it would mean they simply don't understand that they have AI or something similar, lesser technological devices that aren't quite AI, witout knowing they do even though AI are deemed heretical
placid plank
Im pretty sure its just whatever the author wants them to be
And that’s why I have personally think the whole Machine Spirit stuff can range from a malfunctioning tank, to a machine with an actual soul.
storm jungle
Yeah basically
barren tapir
For too much time GW didn't cared about their setting, they should start now, a coherent setting sells more than an incoherent one
coarse mirage
I think it's just poorly defined :p
storm jungle
For too much time GW didn't cared about their setting, they should start now, a ...
This
placid plank
Like, in one of those Baneblade tank crew focused books, there was a Shadowsword with PTSD.
coarse mirage
Aaw
cerulean wagon
shadowswords a rough job
coarse mirage
Get the Shadowblade a dog
barren tapir
BUt then it would mean they simply don't understand that they have AI or somethi...
This is true, the imperium may have dozens of AI inside it, but everyone is quite too dumb or ignorant to recongize them
coarse mirage
There's something below AI but I forget what it's called
barren tapir
Automated responses
coarse mirage
A CPU might be apt
barren tapir
A CPU is just hardware
Which in the imperium can be done with biological stuff aka servitors and their brains
coarse mirage
Depends on how the CPU is made and programmed
ANd what it contains
A sufficiently advanced computer could border on AI capacity without being one, I suppose.
storm jungle
I hate these charts
coarse mirage
Different approaches
storm jungle
it makes my wallnut sized brain confused
coarse mirage
OH ignore the thumbnail
It's the list of different approaches to simulated thought
barren tapir
it makes my wallnut sized brain confused
Said the architect
rancid verge
Ok, reading about Men of Iron and the Men of Stone got mentioned. I remember reading in, I think, the First Gaunt's Ghosts book that Gaunt actually stumbled across a working production plant for the Men of Stone. Did we ever get more info about them other then the fact that were killer robots?
rancid verge
It appears the Men of Iron took control of them and repurposed all of them for combat against humanity but that's about all I can find.
barren tapir
The men of iron were robots, but with AI... Like the geth from mass effect
rancid verge
Stupid unromancable Legion....
barren tapir
Info about them is scarce and definitely not enough to say exactly what they were and what they wanted
barren tapir
Stupid unromancable Legion....
He was a good companion
What we know is that some of them survived, and an example of that is the one that explore the blackstone fortress
rancid verge
Yea, UR-025. Pretending to be part of a Mars expedition
placid plank
Personal crack headcanon is that the MoI revolt was caused by a pissed-off construction bot with the designation BND-3R
barren tapir
The interesting thing is that they don't have souls, but unlike blanks, they don't push away the warp
placid plank
https://c.tenor.com/fwc994Lk0gwAAAAM/bender-shutupbaby.gif
“I’ll make my own Federation, with blackjack, and hookers!”
coarse mirage
The interesting thing is that they don't have souls, but unlike blanks, they don...
Neither does a toaster.
I think it has to do with a biological being not having a soul that makes them somehow abominable
barren tapir
Probably, but if i make a machine of blackstone, which i think isn't really stone then it may work the same as a blank do...
And mine was more about the fact that machines don't have a soul, even if the mechanicus think they do
coarse mirage
Yeah blackstone can be tuned to be other stuff
Either warp reppelant or receptive
But does them thinking they do, make it so? Hmmmmm!
DAZ GUD TINKIN DAT
barren tapir
But does them thinking they do, make it so? Hmmmmm!
AH, i had the same thought just some messages up
coarse mirage
Which is why larger constructs may have greater machine spirits, because they inspire greater faith from the Mechanicus
I think it was mostly created in the lore because in real life, mechanics and people who work with machines often talk about their machines having personalities, quirks and so on.
They thought it was a fun idea and made it lore
A tank firing as fast as it can to destroy its targets will heat up, seem agitated and furious in the process. That kinda thing.
rancid verge
Welp, thanks to my work day being slow due to all the snow, got to go on a deep dive of 40k lore, started with the Men of Iron and somehow wound up all the way over to the War of the False Primarch, hahahahahahahahaha
Day well spent, my boss disagrees for some reason.
barren tapir
Hook him up too with warhammer then
rancid verge
No, knowing him, he would like the Tau. I can't be in the office with such a person.
rancid verge
So, anybody more up to date then me cause I know shit changes all the time, please correct me. Loyal Primarch fates as I know them. Dorn, had his hand recovered from aftermath of battle near Cadia, presumed dead by the Imperium and MIA by the Fists and their successors. Vulkan, last seen fighting a Warboss Ork near a reactor that blew up, Salamanders hold true to a prophecy that states when then find 13 of his lost possessions, he will return to them (I think they have 7 of them). Corvus, killing shit in The Warp. Russ, imprisoned in The Warp (I'm assuming Magnus throws things at him, missing a lot due to poor depth perception). Lion, asleep. Khan, believed to be in Commoragh or the Webway somewhere, possibly imprisoned. Gulliman, back in action baby. Ferrus, head chopped off, cloned ad nauseum by Fabius on Fulgrim's orders cause Snakeman feels guilty. Sanguinius, super dead, passes time by torturing Dante. Alpharius (Omegon?), who the fuck knows if they are even loyal, I thought I did, turns out I was Alpharius.
primal tide
Alpharius was killed by dorn
plush mason
also Alpharius- or was i?
rancid verge
Alpharius was killed by dorn
Knew I forgot something, thanks bud
placid plank
Everyone knows Dorn is puttering about the Imperial Palace in a suit of Centurion armor.
rancid verge
Brother, why is that Brother so much larger and constantly mumbling, "back in my day"?
Oh, it's Dorn, leave him be, he's still pissed he lost his favorite pointing-at-things-hand
barren tapir
Everyone knows Dorn is puttering about the Imperial Palace in a suit of Centurio...
If he was really there then we could have seen some real new buildings on terra
plush mason
If he was really there then we could have seen some real new buildings on terra
but he isnt being Dorn rn so he cant
barren tapir
Oh, true... He must keep the covert identity
crisp heath
Fortifying Position
barren tapir
WH40K lore reddit is an interesting place, one where someone think that the mechanicus were present even before the age of strife (it was not)... But it is also a place where you can find interesting excerpt... Like this one:
They located the girl a few minutes later. The Sister Superior Iolanth, pale-faced with blood loss, sat next to her. The girl’s body was ruined by whatever had a hold of her, but it breathed. Her chest rose and fell very slowly. Death was coming for her. Her eyes had burned away. Her lips were scorched back around her teeth. Nothing mortal could contain that much power for long. She was out of place on the battlefield, but otherwise looked like the uncountable innocent dead Guilliman had seen on worlds the length and breadth of the Imperium. He knelt by her, and took her tiny hand in his massive gauntlet. ‘Leave me,’ said Guilliman. Colquan turned away, motioning his men to stand back. ‘She lives?’ Guilliman asked the Battle Sister. ‘For now,’ answered Iolanth. ‘How did she come here?’ ‘I brought her,’ said Iolanth. ‘My orders were that she remain in Tyros.’ ‘Sometimes the Emperor dictates unpalatable actions be taken.’ ‘And now she will die,’ said Guilliman. ‘You care for her death?’ ‘You do not?’ ‘Are you not concerned she might be an enemy trick or a dangerous psyker now, my lord?’ Iolanth was bitter, past caring about punishment. ‘All I see is a dying girl,’ Guilliman said. ‘Whatever she is, or was, she was in the first instance a child of Terra.’ He looked skywards at Galatan’s underside filling the sky. Lights shone where fighter craft duelled one another, dodging, weaving, firing, exploding, in frantic dogfights. They were utterly insignificant next to the star fortress’ mass. ‘In a few moments, we will either be victorious or obliterated,’ he said. ‘Tell me, Sister, do you think this is the best mankind can hope for? Do you believe we can ever survive and know peace?’
Iolanth was surprised at his question. He looked at her earnestly. ‘I have faith, my lord.’ ‘Faith?’ ‘Yes, my lord. Faith in your father.’ Guilliman nodded. ‘Sometimes, I wish I had faith.’ The girl groaned, and turned her eyeless face towards him. ‘Are you the Emperor made flesh again?’ the girl asked in a quiet, quiet voice. Her wounds seemed worse now she was conscious. The words were mangled, barely comprehensible. ‘I am not He,’ said Guilliman. ‘He made me. I am His creation. I am His son, the thirteenth and only primarch, Roboute Guilliman of Ultramar.’ ‘You look like Him,’ she said, though she was blind. She sighed, a smile spread over her face. ‘I have seen such wondrous things.’ ‘Who are you?’ Guilliman asked. ‘Magnus?’ He hesitated. ‘Father?’ Her head lolled. A last breath sighed from her mouth. ‘Who are you?’ he demanded. The girl could no longer answer. Iolanth shuffled closer to him, her hand pressed against her injured side. ‘Take heart,’ she said. ‘Those who die in the Emperor’s grace are not lost, but shelter within His light in the everlasting empyrean. Oh, my lord, it is beautiful.’ She moved a strand of hair from the dead girl’s face and smiled a bloody smile. ‘The Emperor protects,’ Iolanth said. ‘Never forget that the Emperor protects.’ Guilliman looked at the girl’s mutilated body. ‘I can never believe that,’ he said.
- Plague War
And this is the best part
Iolanth is executed for this shortly afterward. Kaylia, the girl, is later confirmed to be a Living Saint. And as of Gate of Bones, Guilliman is confirmed to be correct–the Emperor does not protect the souls of his faithful.
Hell yeah! Execute all SoB!!
storm jungle
The nuns are a toxic bunch
gaunt vector
who confirms that the emperor does not protect?
barren tapir
I think it is because chaos use those souls to power up a cannon, so if they are protected by big e that shouldn't happen, but it does so no protection... This is my hypothesis anyway
barren tapir
It could be! That is just me connecting all the dots
gaunt vector
Well if they need the souls to power up a cannon then that would imply direct attention from deamonic, sourcerous or even direct attention from the Gods themselves.
We can't expect the Emperor to do all the work but I think it is safe to say that if the Big E can save a soul, he will
coarse mirage
Iolanth is executed for this shortly afterward. Kaylia, the girl, is later confi...
In a book I read recently, the soul of an inquisitor is taken from the "river of souls" that is described to flow in a singular direction, it's implied it's a good direction. A librarian grabs her soul and puts it in his own body, to save the knowledge it contains.
gaunt vector
It does make sense for the Emperor to be capable of and in the practice of saving souls. After 10,000 years of an entire galaxy gifting him a little package of willpower with every prayer and a big package of willpower with every soul directly put into the Golden Throne the Big E appears to be the most powerful "God" in the warp. Saving souls denies them as fuel to his enemy and the area directly locaised around Terra and the Golden Throne is probably the Emperor's equivalent of a specific chaos god's realm, with the Imperial Palace in both real and warpspace being the Imperial version of something like the Brass citadel. It would make sense for the Emperor to congregate loyal souls there, likely under the protection of the Legion of the Damned as an army of "Imperial counterdeamons."
wary sky
I'm still wondering what'll happen when the golden throne finally breaks. Will he ascend to godhood? Will his soul just explode? Interesting results either way.
barren tapir
He will probably die, then get reborn because he is a perpetual, the astronomican will go silent and panic will sweep on the imperium, then he just go out of the palace and say "well... shit!"... Then procede to say "say that mega church over there? I don't want to!" and so the ecclesiarchy get purged by terra
rancid verge
It does make sense for the Emperor to be capable of and in the practice of savin...
Most 40k lore seems to point to that, other than the psykers sacrificed to him, Big Daddy Emp is veeeeerrrry particular about who he lets into his radiance aka "saves". He has Sanguinius and is constantly playing with Saint Celestine's soul like a yo-yo but the vast majority of human souls don't make it to him/he doesn't even try for/are beneath his notice.
gaunt vector
that doesn't seem to make sense, that volume would end up feeding chaos. He would need to save them,
rancid verge
Most souls are just cannon fodder something demons can have fun with but not much else.
barren tapir
In a book I read recently, the soul of an inquisitor is taken from the "river of...
It was taken by a librarian, not by the emperor... And the concept of the emperor taking the souls of the people that die make no sense
cerulean wagon
Most 40k lore seems to point to that, other than the psykers sacrificed to him, ...
the thing is this is mostly guess work because we dont know how far he can stretch his power beyond what he already does
rancid verge
The Emperor just wants you to die for him, he never promised what happens after that is pleasant, hahahahahahahahaha
cerulean wagon
i cant imagine containing war storms is easy
rancid verge
the thing is this is mostly guess work because we dont know how far he can stret...
Very true, his power is vast but his range/limits are completely unknown
cerulean wagon
especially when everything he does is contested by being more potent and far older than he
odd sparrow
big e has as much power as the plot demands
barren tapir
Though i would like to know the passage where guillman is confirmed that the emperor don't protect the souls of who worship him... It also make sense, he don't want to be worshipped so now eat warp
barren tapir
especially when everything he does is contested by being more potent and far old...
The chaos entities developed consciousness around the terran middle age, with the exception of slaneesh, so the emperor is older than them in a normal way
tired umbra
The fuck even happens to the THOUSAND souls he gets fed everyday?
barren tapir
Probably consumed like fuel
odd sparrow
guess they just fuel the whatever-the-fuck the golden throne is yea
barren tapir
Erased if you prefer
The golden throne isn't even what they are fed to, it is the astronomican
But they pass by the throne yes
final spruce
I mean this is weird
Because I definitly remember psykers being soulbound to the Emperor
barren tapir
That is part of them being sanctioned psykers iirc
gaunt vector
especially when everything he does is contested by being more potent and far old...
The Emperor is more powerful than any one chaos god at the moment
cerulean wagon
okay but there are 4 main ones and one of him
barren tapir
The Emperor is more powerful than any one chaos god at the moment
Debatable since the great rift happened
final spruce
Yeah
While they said you can still travel there is the issue that all psykers on the other side lost their wifi connection to the Emperor
gaunt vector
Debatable since the great rift happened
well I would debate that debating: why were the chaos gods forced into trying something that desperate?
barren tapir
So, let me make a short summary of the situation of big e:
He isn't a god
He isn't protecting you
Your miracles are more probably you using psychic powers akin to the waaagh energy
barren tapir
well I would debate that debating: why were the chaos gods forced into trying so...
It is not desperate, in fact was something so good that boosted them so much to try to ttack terra
rancid verge
The chaos entities developed consciousness around the terran middle age, with th...
As with all things 40k lore, this is not exactly true either. They have said that Nurgle, Khorne, and Tzeentch were already 'ancient beyond reckoning' when the Eldar had a galaxy wide blood orgy to give birth to Slaanesh
barren tapir
Which is in m24-25 iirc
gaunt vector
It is not desperate, in fact was something so good that boosted them so much to ...
would you really call that mess an "attempt"
barren tapir
While middle m2 was middle age on terra
barren tapir
would you really call that mess an "attempt"
Yes, since it was just khorne and plunged terra in anarchy for quite some time... The only place with some order was the palace
gaunt vector
other than giving the custodes something to break the monotony and providing Guilliman with a chance to reform the high lords Khorne still did not achieve anything
barren tapir
I really cannot pinpoint why there is so much disinformation around these days... Probably some new video from self made lore tubers
barren tapir
other than giving the custodes something to break the monotony and providing Gui...
Other than shaking every things that were thought to be true, like that terra was unassailable
gaunt vector
Other than shaking every things that were thought to be true, like that terra wa...
what like it was during the Horus Heresy? or due to the Age of Strife?
barren tapir
what like it was during the Horus Heresy? or due to the Age of Strife?
Sorry, i don't get what you are referring to
During the heresy terra was being fortified, during the age of strife terra was a hellhole
After the heresy terra was massively fortified, then it was made sure that all near system were fortified... That was to made terra extremely defended
And many people thought that until the great rift
gaunt vector
terra is still a planet. no one is under the illusion that planets are indestructable
rancid verge
terra is still a planet. no one is under the illusion that planets are indestruc...
Especially one with billions of demons waiting underneath Big E's butt
gaunt vector
Especially one with billions of demons waiting underneath Big E's butt
indeed
barren tapir
terra is still a planet. no one is under the illusion that planets are indestruc...
I don't get if this is by an in setting POV or by a player POV... Not that change much, both are kinda wrong, since no one was expecting cadia to be destroyed, both in setting and by players
barren tapir
Especially one with billions of demons waiting underneath Big E's butt
They aren't really waiting there...
rancid verge
I don't get if this is by an in setting POV or by a player POV... Not that chang...
No one expects a Blackstone Fortress to get yeeted at you
barren tapir
No one expects a Blackstone Fortress to get yeeted at you
Indeed
rancid verge
Abbadon used 'fuck you, Blackstone Fortress!'
It was super effective
barren tapir
No one saw that coming... Not even him, and this is canon
tired umbra
Abaddon proving once more that the Ork tactic of "Just throw heavy stuff at 'em" works.
barren tapir
Since he was lol, i'm gonna kill those weakling in the caverns, then he was wait... I'm being outplayed, nyyaaaa... Blackstone fortress go down
tired umbra
It was kind of a tossing the toys out of the pram move yeah. But you can't really deny that it fucking worked.
gaunt vector
I don't get if this is by an in setting POV or by a player POV... Not that chang...
unexpected does not mean impossible
barren tapir
That is more semantic now
rancid verge
unexpected does not mean impossible
I am reminded of Pirates of the Caribbean
"It's not possible!"
"Not PROBABLE."
gaunt vector
well its true. noone expected cadia to get hit with a blackstone banhammer but everyone knew that destroyin the planet was at least theoretically possible
rancid verge
The only god in 40k that will welcome all it's childrens's souls is Slaanesh. Nice, totally not naughty, Slaanesh.
gaunt vector
The only god in 40k that will welcome all it's childrens's souls is Slaanesh. N...
riiiiiiight................... HEY INQUISISOR I FOUND ONE!
rancid verge
slides away on 5 phallic-shaped legs
wispy vector
Hmm, humans are not supposed to look like that, right?
rancid verge
shrugs 3 shoulders
gaunt vector
fires one boltgun
rancid verge
moans
odd sparrow
stop.
final spruce
Easy way to get beaned
barren tapir
FFS i leave for some minutes, ok maybe a bit more, and the channel go to the warp
final spruce
That's how blanks work
rancid verge
Not my fault, Tzeentch tricked me.
gaunt vector
Not my fault, Tzeentch tricked me.
right XD
crisp heath
someone called me?
rancid verge
someone called me?
Yea, turns out Yible is Chaos Spawn. Real shame. You know what to do bud, for the Corpse thing you guys worship and all that.
gaunt vector
Yea, turns out Yible is Chaos Spawn. Real shame. You know what to do bud, for ...
NO. I am a loyalist
gaunt vector
someone called me?
yeah it was me. I called u on RedReaper they claimed to be a follower of Slaanesh
idk what that is but it sounded heretical
crisp heath
red said the thing so i'm gonna do the other thing before they turn into that thing... thanks.
rancid verge
yeah it was me. I called u on RedReaper they claimed to be a follower of Slaanes...
whispers totally feeding you to something that takes a long time to eat and digest you, I bet Nurgle has something!
gaunt vector
*whispers* totally feeding you to something that takes a long time to eat and di...
Yeah well good luck getting me out of this knight paladin I'm using
rancid verge
We have your favorite food just outside!
gaunt vector
I can see that. Hold still while I load the battle cannon
rancid verge
Right, this is getting stupid.
How dare you. I'm on par with an Ogryn I'll have you know.
gaunt vector
Right, this is getting stupid.
lmao
rancid verge
Re-reading about reuniting the Primarchs with their Legions, never struck me before how similar in situation Fulgrim and Magnus were. That situation being that they come to find their Legion were much smaller in numbers than the others and that their sons were suffering from a flaw that threatened to wipe them out. Yet this didn't bond them to each other at all, in fact, they had one of the worse Primarch relationships I've read about.
Ah well, Fulgrim had Ferrus. Even today, he still has him! That's a bond right there!
open marsh
I dont think Fulgrim and Magnus interacted much
Plus their mutual egos probably wouldnt get along well
rancid verge
The few times I've read of them interacting or even talking about each other don't show them viewing each other in a very positive light
To be fair, other than Sanguinius, the vast majority of that group didn't have many positives to say about the others unless in public.
open marsh
I think the only two that Magnus got along with were Lorgar and Perturabo
rancid verge
He got along ok with Khan. Wouldn't say they were friendly, but were at least respectful
open marsh
Well Khan was respectful to everyone unless they disrespected him first
rancid verge
Well Khan was respectful to everyone unless they disrespected him first
Solid point
gaunt vector
I just watched Wolf Lord Rho's video on that conversation XD
rancid verge
Hahahahahahahahaha
fringe hawk
Man i want to start reading Warhammer books (either 40k, AoS or Fantasy) and would like a good starting point, any suggestion?
atomic pelican
humble bundle ha sa good bundle rn
with AoS and 40k books
It has Ghoulslayer which is great
+Apparently the first 3 HH books r rlly good
Plague Garden and Ghoulslayer ar eboth pretty good AoS books
I'm reading Ghoulslayer rn and Gotrek is really funny
Honestly Gotrek's series is probably a really good choice for both WHF and for AoS
He and his goons are a really good group
Other than that, Soul Wars is probably one of the best things put out by BL, and the best AoS book as well
Josh Reynolds is Greato
rancid verge
I'm too bias towards William King to recommend a good starting point in 40k, hahahahahahahahaha. Much as I love his works, his Space Wolf series is about as non-canon as you can get these days. I can recommend Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts as starting points. Ghosts is definitely more towards standard 40k novels, dark moral choices and gritty battle scenes. Ciaphas is much more laid back and tongue-in-cheek but has him having adventures against and with a large variety of races and groups from all over 40k @fringe hawk. For Warhammer Fantasy, just like Proud Jeanstealer suggested, you can't go wrong with Gotrek and Felix.
rancid verge
One of my faves
Top moment for me is still in their first book when Gotrek takes a stone to the head and appears dazed and then proceeds to kill 30 beastmen while not actually aware of his surroundings. Then, upon meeting the survivors of said group of beastmen, they tell him and Felix to fuck off cause no way are any of them getting within 50 feet of that fucking monster of a dwarf, hahahahahahahahaha
summer niche
Can also say if you get tired of ciphias cain it's very fine to stop
You don't need to read all his books
Cause they're all pretty much the same
They are very entertaining though
I can recommend eisenhorn if you wanna follow an inqusitor
Also a lot of this stuff exists as audiobooks and audiodramas
Can very much recommend
I think almost the whole horus heresy can be listened to
Absolutely dope for all the transportation one does in life
Path of the eldar is a very fun intro into eldar life, very cool
Friend of mine told me about https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/the-infinite-and-the-divine-ebook-2020.html
Apparently very good. Necron related
Personally for where to start, start with something you find interesting, you can pretty much jump in everywhere, even most of the horus heresy books stand on their own pretty well
languid kiln
Sorry does anyone know where can i find these art or the artist of this picture ?
dull flame
languid kiln
Noice noice noice, do you know who is the artist ?
fringe hawk
Found the book where the Orkz allied with Imperial Guard, book is The enemy of my enemy by Nate Crowley
[----]
Glancing at the staff sergeant, with her face riven by shrapnel from a xenos grenade and her prosthetic arm gleaming, he saw someone with every reason to put a blade in the creature across from her. And yet, despite all the cursing, she was wearing the same fierce, weights-room grin as she might in human company. That was the astonishing thing about infantry, he mused, as the pair of bruisers set into another exchange of insults. No matter what world – or species – they came from, if you gave them a shared enemy and a way to cheat each other out of smokes, soon enough they’d end up willing to die for each other.
[----]
On the xenos side especially, there was simply no grudge – while they viewed their new comrades with a mixture of amusement and contempt, they had regarded the war as fantastic sport, and had no scores to settle.
For the more bitter human troopers, this was perplexing – it was hard to hate an enemy that didn’t hate you back, after all. And when it became apparent how recklessly enthusiastic the xenos were to die for the cause, they had been stumped altogether. Nestor would have called the aliens’ attitude suicidal, if it wasn’t so carefree: as far as they were concerned, a violent death was just the ultimate culmination of good living, a mindset that the soldiers of the Astra Militarum could only regard with awe. When a platoon of Taktikus’ self-styled ‘kommandos’ had lured an advancing swarm into an abandoned smelting plant and then overloaded its reactor, creating a fireball six miles across, the hives had shaken with human cheering.
[----]
It was then that Nestor noticed Taktikus playing with the war map. The ork commander – which had awarded itself several more bottlecap medals since the start of the defence – was pushing a model tank around the Dunrust Salient with a sinewy claw, making contemplative engine noises as it went. Nestor sighed.
‘Taktikus, that’s the Nineteenth Cambrian Heavies, and they belong in sector six – could you please put them back?’
cerulean wagon
Man i want to start reading Warhammer books (either 40k, AoS or Fantasy) and wou...
I usualy recommend either ciaphas cain or eisenhorn as good entry points
ciaphas has a fair few footnotes to explain stuff as well as some humour, eisenhorn is just a good space detective series
storm jungle
Sorry does anyone know where can i find these art or the artist of this picture ...
I think thats promotional artwork for Warhammer Space Marine
For the artist though I'm not entirely sure if any reference is given.
cerulean wagon
vast frigate
sadly its vraks
cerulean wagon
and its so dark my colourblind ass cant see shit
vast frigate
oof
final spruce
Wasn't it already posted ?
cerulean wagon
yes
dull flame
If it was I sure as heck didn't see it 😄
barren tapir
It was posted by Eisenfaust, but not in this channel
summer niche
yeah i can't see anything in it either lol
peak hamlet
I think thats kinda the point
vast frigate
I love the story of Rylanor still
dull flame
gaunt vector
if we walk into that in game im just walking back out again. I'll take my chances with the commisar
gaunt vector
precisely XD
open marsh
I love the story of Rylanor still
I love any story where Fulgrim gets the stupid knocked out of him
frosty tulip
Rylanor deserved better
vast frigate
I love any story where Fulgrim gets the stupid knocked out of him
Yeah theres a good few where fulgrim gets outed for the dumbass hes grown into
I just love how Rylanor's story ends in the likes of the Poet and the Fart
open marsh
Yeah theres a good few where fulgrim gets outed for the dumbass hes grown into
Like the one where Perturabo smashes his face into a clockwork titan, then beats the shit out of him
vast frigate
YEEE
coarse mirage
Iron within, blood on the outside
dull flame
dull flame
Remember that scene where the hobbits hide from the Nazgul? Here's the grimdark version of that.
fallen bloom
I've been thinking (usually a bad thing resulting in heresy I know but stick with me) if we took what we know what the various primarchs look like and use facial analysis software, we can approximate what the Emperor looks like.
plush mason
I've been thinking (usually a bad thing resulting in heresy I know but stick wit...
hmmmmm that could work
reef vale
or it could end up as this being your emperor
the ogryn were the chosen children all along
barren tapir
You don’t hide from a lictor
Unless you are a catachan, then you hide from lictor... And this is not a joke... Catachans managed to play hide and seek with lictors on many occasions... Without even talking about marbo, who hunt them for sport
placid plank
Wait a minute...that’s the guy who made that DS/40K crossover art!
dapper pawn
Damn angrons lore is kinda sad
gaunt vector
Damn angrons lore is kinda sad
yes. sad. sad and angry.
frosty tulip
^
tired umbra
Angron is 100% a tragic character.
crisp heath
i have a question about geneseed
is it not technically possible to create infinite progenoid glands?
i get you have to wait for it to develop in the body, but if a progenoid gland can create 2 more progenoid glands
does that technically mean that geneseed is infinitely replaceable barring the 5-10 year time frame for it to develop in an astartes' body?
or am i missing something?
5% gets taken out for storing and testing
also many astartes die without the possibility of progenoid retrieval
aight, makes sense
thanks!
final spruce
But thankfully
The Mechanicus are capable of farming the geneseed
It's not very ethic since the person is doomed to die and barely lives but it allows for "rapid" creation of geneseed
crisp heath
yes, very brutally. by cloning recruit replacements in whom they rapidly place the geneseed merely to kill them after harvesting the progenoids
or during
final spruce
You can always count on the Admech for an efficient solution to your problems
crisp heath
the whole deal of being a space marine is like pretty gross lol
i fucking love the mechanicus
final spruce
I hope you like being opened every year for a new implant
crisp heath
they may not be ethical but DAMN
if you're in vacuum you will fucking excrete a thick layer of mucus to slime yourself up like a carp. you'll live, but like. gross lol
final spruce
I mean what is ethical in 40k ?
crisp heath
fair point
final spruce
Yup just like the mudfish
crisp heath
and you can technically eat and digest that sock behind the bunk... but i wouldn't do it...
rotund siren
what the fuck
what is this?
what have I come back to?
I have no idea how this convo lead to this
crisp heath
oh nah i was just curious about something, unrelated to what you were talking about
plush mason
commissar moth
you are wanted for questioning in regards to the dissapperiance of the lord governer's cloak
vagrant osprey
The problem with farming geneseed is that it leads to geneseed defects for some reason.
prime kernel
And probably also cause chaos magic
vagrant osprey
Worse, the geneseed failure rate is much higher, and when geneseed fails to take it's destroyed.
prime kernel
and no one knows how to make more of it.
vagrant osprey
Except the Alpha Legion and Cawl.
The failure rates they quote are literally all over the place, and vary by chapter/legion
There's at least one mention of Salamanders having a 95% failure rate, which can't be correct as it makes them existing literally impossible.
prime kernel
i mean arent the space marines slowly being replaced by primaris marines?
even though no one wants to talk about that
vagrant osprey
Who knows?
Primaris were made with traitor geneseed, so even though they have a 0% failure rate something is going to go wrong.
prime kernel
every space marine is bound to go wrong
considering geneseed has some link to the choas gods.
vagrant osprey
Not the chaos gods, but there's definitely some warpy shit there.
coarse mirage
considering geneseed has some link to the choas gods.
Sounds like headcanon
prime kernel
@coarse mirage Either it was warp fuckery or chaos god fuckery
coarse mirage
According to?
prime kernel
i have absolutley no idea im just remembering it from the top of my head.
prime kernel
if you have another point of view please do share.
barren tapir
The geneseed used for the primarchs come from the two most powerful perpetual, the emperor and Erda, of course with some gene editing made by the emperor... I must also say that the think there is also some warp influence is kinda widespread, and i think it came from a phrase that said that the emperor exited the portal on molech with new knowledge that would use to make the primarch
barren tapir
And since it is believed that the emperor made a pact with the chaos entities there many people made up that theory
coarse mirage
I was told in here that the notion that the Emperor somehow made a bargain with the Chaos Gods was said BY the Chaos Gods to Horus. Which makes it unreliable.
barren tapir
also who is erda ?
The second most potent perpetual, and gene mother of the primarchs
And of one unique legionnaire
prime kernel
oh
coarse mirage
Perpetuals are immortals
prime kernel
Then where she at now ?
barren tapir
I was told in here that the notion that the Emperor somehow made a bargain with ...
Yes, that is also part of the source i think is the origin of the theory that the primarchs are warp influenced
barren tapir
Then where she at now ?
Oh, i have a crazy theory on her fate
storm jungle
Then where she at now ?
In reality; fuck if we know
prime kernel
aah
storm jungle
she popped up out of NOWHERE in the last horus heresy book
barren tapir
Wasn't she the lady named Astarte?
She was the creator of the first version of the black carapace, and an extremely capable genetist
storm jungle
as in a fashion of "hey guys im a new character!"
storm jungle
i highly suggest giving her 4chan page a read, its quite... enlightening
barren tapir
Erda is the cause of the warp rift that sent away the primarchs, she created that rift
coarse mirage
Oh?
prime kernel
Its still kinda weird though that after the horus heresey all the loyal primarchs just fucked off.
storm jungle
yeah its weird af
its all just to get them out the way to make sure the imperium goes to shit basically
barren tapir
But returning on the main topic, there is no actual fact that show the primarchs genes to be warp influenced, or connected to the warp
prime kernel
so like the warp itself its vague ?
barren tapir
As it is now yes
I think it is that way because GW still hasn't come up with a reasonable way... Which i think will never happen anyway
storm jungle
Yeah from a writer's perspective its way more easier to say "i dunno it just has weird stuff in it"
allows them more freedom in general
prime kernel
yeah thats fair
i do think that GW focuses a bit too much on the space marines though
barren tapir
It is also a difficult topic to develop
storm jungle
Actually when was the last time Krieg got some lore lol
prime kernel
that time they fought some necrons
storm jungle
what are they even doing at the moment i wonder
prime kernel
and fucking won
storm jungle
oh man you had me worried for a moment, i thought you were gonna mention Dead Men Walking
prime kernel
eat your heart out blueberries !
barren tapir
Saying they won isn't really correct, if you are referring to the orphean war
vernal belfry
They wut ?
barren tapir
They for sure managed something that would have been difficult to do even for the astartes
But they also all died
barren tapir
Krieg don't want to die, they accept it as their duty, but they aren't suicidal
storm jungle
You mean to tell me they arent braindead and clear minefields by walking on them?
prime kernel
suicidal no. dying in glorious sacrifice to the empror.
yes
But yeah the orphean war was the last time anyone wrote about them.
atomic pelican
Forgeworld army problems
prime kernel
Sure the catachan vietnam jungle fighters get written about all the time
yet no one cares about krieg for some reason
storm jungle
Catachan is trash tbh
prime kernel
it is
atleast tanith is interesting same with krieg
Catachan are just an entire planet of eighties action figures.
barren tapir
atleast tanith is interesting same with krieg
More than krieg, but also gone 😭 😭 😭
storm jungle
Wait they're all dead!?
barren tapir
In the 42 millenium there is no tanith
barren tapir
The last one i read about them were when trazyin released some of them in the caves on cadia
prime kernel
@barren tapir tanith has the best music
storm jungle
And all of those pokeballs got murdered by abbadon too
barren tapir
Also remember that krieg is really recent as regiment tradition
prime kernel
storm jungle
Yeah im sure krieg will get something sooner or later
prime kernel
Krieg is really young but the administratum absolutley loves them.
Theirs a reason they allowed them to have veta wombs.
barren tapir
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCGB81DBzOc
That is the march of cambreadth from heater alexander, really nice music indeed
prime kernel
as far as im concerned its tanith music. Atleast in my headcannon anyway
Elysian jump troopers also need some love
barren tapir
Then take this for tanith
barren tapir
Elysian jump troopers also need some love
They had a recent book didn't they? About them being forced to use conscripts to repel some CSM
prime kernel
no idea
would be cool if they got a tv show
considering the drama they go through like holy shit.
Like that one time with a fucking STC
vagrant osprey
Wasn't it just a working STC fragment for a... Titan, was it?
Nope, Men of Iron
Chaos-corrupted fragment.
GW really needs to sort this terminology the fuck out.
A blueprint? STC. A facility that makes one specific thing? An STC. A device that tells you how to make a thing? An STC? A fully sentient AI capable of coming up with and flash-generating an item to solve any problem up to and including creating a kugelblitz canon followed by a device to reset the timeline so that their target of said kugelblitz doesn't miss? An STC.
Finding "An STC" could mean anything from a chalkboard with a wire diagram to a machine intelligence capable of waging war on the Imperium.
So there's nothing STANDARD about Standard Template Constructs
primal tide
I always assumed the 'standard' label applied to the item(s) being documented (template), not the form that the documentation takes (construct)
<Standard template> construct
Kind of like how you can have different kinds of technical documentation for a 1/4-20 bolt, even 3d print one, and at the end of the day they'll all fit the same tapped hole (if made correctly)
plush mason
A blueprint? STC. A facility that makes one specific thing? An STC. A device tha...
you just cant let that one time go can you
primal tide
In my example, a technomage might look at:
a data slate
a 3d printer
a docu-binder
and they would label all of these items as constructs, which describe the same standard template: in this case a 1/4-20 bolt
vagrant osprey
you just cant let that one time go can you
WHICH one time?
They don't differentiate between "Device to make", "Instructions to make", or "Developer"
plush mason
when the magos fused with the AI hidden in the ark mechanicus and the ship entered god mode and fired black holes at an eldar craft only to have the shot be dodged so it altered time so it would hit
primal tide
They don't differentiate between "Device to make", "Instructions to make", or "D...
I'm thinking the template is standard, not the delivery mechanism
plush mason
and afaik the term STC has been used to avoid having usefull/powerfull tech get destoried for it being a "tech-heresy"
as well as a way fro some magos' to avoid being excommunicated as hereteks when they end up inventing something
so part of the confussion is intended
a lot of things are called STCs that arent actualy STCs
primal tide
Next you'll tell me it's the same with machine spirits
plush mason
it is
primal tide
I know, a joke was made
plush mason
oof
vagrant osprey
I'm thinking the template is standard, not the delivery mechanism
The template not being standard is the thing I am complaining about.
A high school physics textbook would be called an STC library because it contains drawings of 'weaponizable' balls on strings.
plush mason
A high school physics textbook would be called an STC library because it contain...
techpriests are not the smartist of people....
primal tide
The template not being standard is the thing I am complaining about.
No, you're complaining about the construct being different, not the contained template
vagrant osprey
There's no template, though :V
primal tide
They don't differentiate between "Device to make", "Instructions to make", or "D...
This being the construct, not the template
plush mason
the entirty of the cult mechanicus is awash in foolish superstition and hepocrocy
green sedge
Ok yeah so they're calling the shards STCs, when technically the STC is the thing that makes the templates. A Standard Template Constructor.
It makes templates.
plush mason
they are one of the main reason why humanity's technology as stagnated and declind
green sedge
No, fifteen thousand years of war and ruin are the main reason technology has declined. The cult mechanicus is only really guilty of the stagnation.
Cawl aside.
vagrant osprey
The mechanicus are the primary reason technology has only stagnated
And I don't blame them for being full of superstition. They're responsible for maintaining machines where they have literally no comprehension of the basic principles.
They have records on how to do things, so they do EXACTLY those things EXACTLY as described.
And when one of them figures something out, EVERY step in the process is recorded EXACTLY
Because they have NO WAY to know WHICH steps actually did anything.
green sedge
They mostly don't even understand what the diagnostic messages even mean.
plush mason
And I don't blame them for being full of superstition. They're responsible for m...
bro they allowed that knowledge to be lost
green sedge
No.
That is flat out incorrect.
They bled and died trying to stop that knowledge being lost.
They failed.
But they did not under any circumstances "allow" that knowledge to be lost.
plush mason
their is nothing stopping humanity from rediscovering its lost power other than the supertition of the cult mechanicus
vagrant osprey
Yes there is.
green sedge
Wow that is wildly incorrect.
vagrant osprey
The Ecclesiarcy opposes ALL technological research
plush mason
they did it before they can do it again
green sedge
You're blaming the people keeping the lights on for not reinventing things that required AI to invent the first time around.
No, they did not do it before.
plush mason
The Ecclesiarcy opposes ALL technological research
i prefer not to think about them
green sedge
Most advanced "human" tech was AI designed.
vagrant osprey
Mars was once a lush world, but is now an irradiated hellscape where they almost all died. That's why they started replacement of their bodies with tech; to SURVIVE
green sedge
How did you miss that?
primal tide
Fear of "Tech-heresy" and the drive to discover information seem like pretty opposed interests
vagrant osprey
The Mechanicus doesn't even have all their own records; Mars was ravaged by war and it was destroyed.
green sedge
That's literally what an STC is, it's an inventing machine. Humanity is not the inventor of high DAoT tech. At all.
plush mason
Fear of "Tech-heresy" and the drive to discover information seem like pretty opp...
they are
primal tide
Yup
vagrant osprey
The Ecclesiarchy is calling "Tech Heresy"
green sedge
Ok so your position makes sense if you literally ignore a third of the lore, which you straight up say you're doing. I'm confused as to your reasoning, Sus.
vagrant osprey
The Mechanicus is inventing new things and claiming "Oh, this must have been invented by the Emperor AND YOU CAN'T PROVE OTHERWISE"
green sedge
Like it seems like your reasoning is just you saying things that aren't backed up.
I get that you maybe have some weird anti-mech bias but calling them responsible for the state of tech in a negative light is an exceedingly blinkered view of the lore.
plush mason
Like it seems like your reasoning is just you saying things that aren't backed u...
iirc the cult mechanicus pre dates the ecclesiarchy
vagrant osprey
They do.
green sedge
It does. But that is irrelevant here.
primal tide
The cult mechanicus has tenets against tech heresy
plush mason
and they out lawed invention long before the imperial cult existed
vagrant osprey
And they re-invented a FUCKTON of stuff before the Emperor cracked down and brought them in line.
green sedge
You are casting the Mechanicus as the ones to blame for the bad situation when literally the only reason there's any working tech at all is them.
You're just kind of being a jerk for reasons the lore does not support.
plush mason
You are casting the Mechanicus as the ones to blame for the bad situation when l...
did i say they are the only reason?
green sedge
Yes.
plush mason
they are just one of the main ones
green sedge
You said the reason.
vagrant osprey
The Emperor of Man slammed the brakes on their research under threat of a purge, and the Ecclesiarchy kept doubling down on that.
vagrant osprey
The Mechanicus has always been chafing against the mandates against R&D
plush mason
fucking shit
green sedge
^Literally the subplot of the Mechanicus game
... I'll note the swearing as the tacit admission of your incorrectness about the most holy cult mechanicus. The Omnissiah will be petitioned to forgive you.
vagrant osprey
Basically the ONLY time the Mechanics will call "Tech Heresy" is when it's somebody trying to keep technology from them, or somebody dicking around with technology the Mechanicus couldn't repair if it breaks
green sedge
^
plush mason
... I'll note the swearing as the tacit admission of your incorrectness about th...
no i was cussing myself out for failing to type
but enough
green sedge
Forgiveness duly withdrawn.
vagrant osprey
The Mechanicus has NOT called Tech Heresy on Spyrer suits, even though those are Xenotech, because they can buy them from rogue traders.
plush mason
your selfrightcusness is annoy
primal tide
somebody dicking around with technology the Mechanicus couldn't repair if it breaks
So, most technology then :Smug:
green sedge
My correctness offends you? Sounds like an insufficient faith in the duality of the machine god.
How... disappointing.
plush mason
i cant tell if your trolling or not
primal tide
This a roleplay server today? I must have missed the memo
plush mason
This a roleplay server today? I must have missed the memo
ikr
green sedge
Dude you came in here saying shit that is 100% opposite to the lore established over literal decades and something like half a metric ton of books, you're flat wrong, and you want me to pat you on the back and agree?
Sorry, nope.
primal tide
I don't think anyone wants something from you
coarse mirage
Y'all could just discss with each other without being so rancid.
plush mason
Dude you came in here saying shit that is 100% opposite to the lore established ...
no i just wanted you to stop talking altogeather
if your right you are right
idrc
primal tide
Y'all could just discss with each other without being so rancid.
Yeah this dude is being kinda toxic with the way he's arguing
coarse mirage
Best not engage then.
green sedge
Ok, ok, fair. I was being a bit too sharp tongued.
I dislike overt overgeneralizations and I reacted poorly. I apologize.
plush mason
i have been there no worries
green sedge
Still. Like, look. Is the Mechanicus a good institution to advance human interests through technological innovation? Flat no. But are they to blame for the technological availability and reliability being so abysmal? I don't think so.
primal tide
I think those two statements are at odds
green sedge
The biggest practical hurdle between ~41k humanity and DAoT tech is the fact that humans weren't the inventors of DAoT tech, the Men of Iron were.
primal tide
Sure it could be worse, but it could be better if they were better
plush mason
if they would stop destoring some of it they would help a lot more than they do
plush mason
I think those two statements are at odds
no they arent
green sedge
Oh, agreed. It would be better if they were better. But they can't reinvent things that no human ever invented to begin with without the tools to do it, and time and war are to blame for those gaps.
plush mason
the mechanicus helps and hurts in about equle masseure
green sedge
I would argue that they help very, veeerry slightly more than they hurt.
Like a 499/501 split.
plush mason
and thats why i cant stand their supertition
they have so much more poptential
oh well
green sedge
Ah, see, in a weird way it's actually the superstition that's letting them help by preserving exact protocols for interacting with the tech.
vagrant osprey
They have a lot more potential, but they're also fighting against the Imperium for every single step they take forward.
green sedge
Aaaaand that.
plush mason
once papa smuf disbands that abomination called the "imperial cult"
green sedge
^*If. ftfy.
vagrant osprey
... he'll still probably keep the leash on the Mechanicus, because he trusts his dad.
plush mason
then maybe the mechanicus will start moving farword some
green sedge
It, uh... kind of already is?
plush mason
... he'll still probably keep the leash on the Mechanicus, because he trusts his...
his leash will be a lot longer tho
vagrant osprey
Even though the Emperor's plan was always awful, and is now flat-out impossible, he'll still keep it going.
green sedge
That's already a thing. Cawl has instituted some actual changes in institutional philosophy at a leadership level, and both experimentation and refinement efforts are underway.
plush mason
That's already a thing. Cawl has instituted some actual changes in institutional...
perfect
green sedge
Like he's not in charge but by doing what he's doing, he's setting a precedent that is being followed.
plush mason
Cawl to the rescue
green sedge
So canon current lore is Cawl to the rescue and the AdMech actually stretching its limbs a little more than they used to.
vagrant osprey
Ah, so, a bit of background: The Emperor was an extreme bio-supremacist. He hated the idea of thinking machines, because he considered them to be tainting the purity of spirit he saw as being vital to turning humans into something more like the Eldar
green sedge
Yeah Big E was a diiiick about cybernetics.
vagrant osprey
He saw people making machines to do things as preventing them from improving themselves.
He was also a MASSIVE hypocrite.
green sedge
Hence the iron-clad strictness of the Treaty of Olympos.
plush mason
Ah, so, a bit of background: The Emperor was an extreme bio-supremacist. He *hat...
also big E "creats legons of warriors with more tech in them than most cyber firms"
green sedge
The Emperor did not like or approve of technological advancement outside the realm of human bio-modification.
Yeah like he said, huge hypocrite.
plush mason
man big e was a real hypocrite
green sedge
Correct.
vagrant osprey
You need to understand that he saw humanity as a pet.
green sedge
He even violated the Treaty of Olympos completely by not turning over Void Iron or Thermic Reactors.
vagrant osprey
Not humans as a pet. Humanity. The collective.
green sedge
But yeah humanity is like Big E's favorite dog.
vagrant osprey
He didn't consider individual people as thinking beings worthy of consideration.
plush mason
Not *humans* as a pet. *Humanity*. The *collective*.
you woudl think a being with his power would have known that there is no such thing as the collective humanity
vagrant osprey
Err... The exact opposite, actually.
green sedge
Actually, collective humanity created him.
vagrant osprey
Warp, man.
green sedge
He has a personal direct relationship with collective humanity itself, as the manifested psychic potential of all ancient mankind.
plush mason
100s of souls fusing togeather doesnt make a collective
green sedge
10,000s of souls, and yes it literally does that's what that word means.
coarse mirage
No?
green sedge
No?
plush mason
regardless of what we become after death in the living wolrd there is no collective
coarse mirage
Since when is the Emperor hundreds or tens of thousands of souls fused together?
Are you talking about the 12 shaman?
plush mason
yeah didnt they retcon that?
green sedge
His backstory is that all the ancient human psychers murderfucked themselves into unification, is it not?
I haven't heard of that being changed.
plush mason
he is now just a peretual with crazy strong pyshcic powers iirc
plush mason
someone in this server was saying that not to long ago
coarse mirage
His background is that he's a perpetual being, an immortal, who somewhere around M32 or something (cant quite remember the date) had 12 shaman merge into him for a psychic awakening. That's the Emperor we know now
green sedge
AFAIK, it was all human mystics in the late stone age early bronze age ish who collectively died and fused.
coarse mirage
You'll find it on the wiki about him
barren tapir
green sedge
That's the backstory in Master of Mankind though.
coarse mirage
No, it was just a bunch of them.
barren tapir
This channel is ablaze
plush mason
yes
primal tide
It sure is
coarse mirage
And if all of them were just the 12 of them, well, correct :p
green sedge
Ok maybe not tens of thousands, but still the vast majority of human mystics. M32 origin is ridiculous, he's been around since the river valley civilizations were getting started.
Like we witness him being there and doing things of consequence in the book.
plush mason
iirc the backstory in MoM has been in limbo for some time now
vagrant osprey
He can't be from M32 since that means he was born after the Primarchs
green sedge
From what I understood, it was every human mystic.
coarse mirage
The emperor has been around since forever, he is a perpetual. But he was not always the Emperor.
barren tapir
How the hell you all started discussing about the faults of the Ad. Mech. and ended up talking about the emperor's origin
plush mason
How the hell you all started discussing about the faults of the Ad. Mech. and en...
snowball effect
primal tide
How the hell you all started discussing about the faults of the Ad. Mech. and en...
Don't question it, madness lies that way
vagrant osprey
The lore used to say all the mystics on earth sacrificed themselves to put all of humanity's psychic power in one place so the birthing screams of Slaanesh wouldn't destroy all of man.
green sedge
Right yeah but before he existed there were human psykers, after they fused all their potential into him to ride out Long Night by keeping their collective psychic heads down.
barren tapir
Yeah, i know, i do that too, but this is on a whole new level
vagrant osprey
... and then the first thing Emps decided to do was not his fucking job
coarse mirage
green sedge
And he can't be from M32 because the entire Horus Heresy is in M30.
Books >>> Wiki, but I'll bite.
barren tapir
Ok, you know what, i'm out, so many wrong things are getting said that i prefer to jump out
plush mason
lol
plush mason
Ok, you know what, i'm out, so many wrong things are getting said that i prefer ...
the imperial truth>>> the imperial creed how about that?
coarse mirage
Ah apparently one of the origin stories is the one with thousands of psykers
green sedge
Yeah, ok, I knew it was in there somewhere in the pile.
eyes mound of Emperor Backstories
plush mason
Ah apparently one of the origin stories is the one with thousands of psykers
yeah afaik there is a few different backstories to him
coarse mirage
It may have been retconned then
vagrant osprey
On the bright side, he has fewer origin stories than The Joker.
Wait, let me fix that...
green sedge
Heh.
vagrant osprey
"The emperor is the Joker"
plush mason
Wait, let me fix that...
shhh you
vagrant osprey
Bam, done.
green sedge
Oh no.
vagrant osprey
NOW everything makes sense.
plush mason
well he is quite the meme lord when you think about it
coarse mirage
wait
primal tide
"DaMaGeD"
coarse mirage
we had a similar discussion like this not too long ago
green sedge
Ok, so. Now that the backstory issue is a little clarified, back to the collective issue. Even if he was only the result of a dozen psykers initially, do you think that being force fed many hundreds at minimum per day has made him a collective now?
coarse mirage
I remember readin this info then
but when I read it now...it's like there's new bits to it
Have I changed timeline?
WHAT TIMELINE IS THIS
plush mason
Ok, so. Now that the backstory issue is a little clarified, back to the collecti...
oh he might be a collective assuming the souls survive him eattin g them
coarse mirage
"A standard year later the child who would become the Emperor was born in a Neolithic settlement of Anatolian herders and farmers of a normal mother and father, with normal brothers and sisters. His psychic power was so great that its energies altered His genome and physiology in the womb and rendered Him immortal so He would no longer need to reincarnate and could not be assaulted by the daemonic creatures of the Immaterium upon His death. As He grew older, His potent psychic powers began to manifest. "
I DONT REMEMBER THIS
WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN
primal tide
WHAT TIMELINE IS THIS
WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP
coarse mirage
WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP
GRAB A BRUSH AND PUT A LITTLE MAKEUP
plush mason
lol
and plus that wasnt my point on the collective @green sedge
the idea of the collective self is that all of us are basicly the same and all want the same things
that is not true at all
vagrant osprey
Err... That's not what it means, though?
plush mason
we must be talking about a different collective humanity my mistake
green sedge
Oh. Oh you meant- derp.
vagrant osprey
OH!
He values humanity not as a bunch of individuals, but as the abstract concept of "humanity"
He prunes it like a bonsai
plush mason
you must meen "collective" as in the total sum of humanity
vagrant osprey
Yes.
plush mason
ok sorry for the confussion
vagrant osprey
Yeah, nah, it was a fun rabbithole.
coarse mirage
"However, the above account is now considered largely apocryphal. In truth, the Emperor's origin and history prior to unifying Terra is largely mysterious and undetailed, though His immortality and extraordinary psychic abilities still define Him. "
vagrant osprey
Anyway, long story short, the Emperor was damn pissed when the Eldari whores dried up and Commoragh went freak show, and decided to groom his pet species into something that could provide him the psychic pootang he wanted.
plush mason
i just thought of something
green sedge
As far as I'm aware, the Eldar booty calling is still canon.
plush mason
big e is the kahn from star trek
vagrant osprey
It is. He spent 15,000 years helping father Slaanesh instead of doing his job of protecting humanity from Slaanesh
Nah, Kahn was more competent.
coarse mirage
I wonder if big E had something to do with the Dark Age of Technology
vagrant osprey
Khan also had natural charisma, instead of relying on a psychic aura to convince people he was right.
coarse mirage
as it was the peak of humanity
vagrant osprey
Thronebutt likely had nothing to do with the DAoT
plush mason
Khan also had natural charisma, instead of relying on a psychic aura to convince...
wasnt it a bit of both
he had some telepathic power iirc
vagrant osprey
No, the Emperor is explicitly the opposite of charismaric without his aura
plush mason
im talking about kahn
plush mason
that came after
plush mason
his powers more just made him a little more likeable
plush mason
his natueral charisma was the main thing tho
vagrant osprey
The Emperor called Angron a failed experiment to his face.
plush mason
he was right when you think about it
vagrant osprey
...
plush mason
also i am fairly sure big e himself yeeted the primarchs thru the warp
vagrant osprey
Ok, so, I don't think you understand what "charismatic" means...
Err... No, that was their mom.
vagrant osprey
He was already conquering the stars.
He wrote them off as a loss and then continued with his plans.
The Primarchs were supposed to be a fast way to create something on-par with the Custodes.
Every Custodes is a bespoke creation forged over centuries.
Conversely, the Primarchs were ready to go within 2 decades, and required no careful maintenance.
vagrant osprey
A big one!
First it was complaining about "STC" not being standard, or templates, or constructors
plush mason
what sort of mess did i miss here
the kind your profile pic likes to make >:P
vagrant osprey
Then it was the Mechanicus and if they helped or hindered the advancement of humanity.
Then it was the Emperor being awful and his origin story being that he's The Joker.
storm jungle
First it was complaining about "STC" not being standard, or templates, or constr...
Its templates and standard constructs, its kinda in the name
storm jungle
Then it was the Mechanicus and if they helped or hindered the advancement of hum...
Both
cerulean wagon
basically it was abstract unconfirmed stuff
storm jungle
Then it was the Emperor being awful and his origin story being that he's The Jok...
Probably possible
vagrant osprey
Its templates and standard constructs, its kinda in the name
They list everything from blueprints to factories as "STC"s.
storm jungle
Because thats what they are
vagrant osprey
Yeah, but that makes things really confusing when somebody "finds an STC"
cerulean wagon
Yeah, but that makes things really confusing when somebody "finds an STC"
thats what descriptions are for
storm jungle
if its not detailed then its not that important
cerulean wagon
if someone doesnt elaborate its probably not an stc
or they dont know what they are doing
vagrant osprey
It could be a sketch on a napkin, or a machine-mind that can snap-create kugelblitz canons and chrono-inverters at will.
cerulean wagon
if they tell you the STC can fit a titan in it, its probably not a blueprint
the complaint is like complaining guns are called guns
plush mason
arent the STC shards just flashdrives basivly?
cerulean wagon
its a generalized term for it to all fall under
no 2 guns are the same of course
but it gets the point across
cerulean wagon
arent the STC shards just flashdrives basivly?
usualy yeah
vagrant osprey
The complaint is like complaining that a metalworking diagram, a foundary, and a gun are all "Bullets"
plush mason
its 40k
storm jungle
its a generalized term for it to all fall under
👆
plush mason
overgeneralization is the name of the game
i mean what else could you expect from a bunch of people that send a lot fo their time humbing toasters?
yes i did just go there
cerulean wagon
The complaint is like complaining that a metalworking diagram, a foundary, and a...
if you want a better comparison then its like complaining the term "armament" exists
it could be anything from a gun, a sword, a bullet, a cannon, a missile
literally anything at all
all covered under one term
plush mason
it could be anything from a gun, a sword, a bullet, a cannon, a missile
an armament could be a fucking pen
vagrant osprey
I think my largest issue is that they don't have any more specific terms for anything.
cerulean wagon
lasguns pretty specific
plush mason
yeah the angry lazer points
fun fact
lazers that are powerfull enough to do harm are compealtly invisable to the human eye
vagrant osprey
Fun fact: weaponized lasers cause permanent blindness from the beam hitting their target.
And it literally doesn't matter what frequency they are for that effect!
plush mason
yup
vagrant osprey
(They also can't be red, because then they would actually be SUPER ineffective on humans.)
primal tide
Honestly just blinding your enemies troops seems more effective and humane than killing them
vagrant osprey
Oh, no. You won't blind your enemy's troops
They aren't looking at themselves when it happens.
plush mason
(They also can't be red, because then they would actually be SUPER ineffective o...
do you know why the classic lazer color is red?
vagrant osprey
Because the original lasers were based on ruby quartz.
plush mason
no becuz the first lazer used a ruby as its focus
plush mason
Because the original lasers were based on ruby quartz.
correct
vagrant osprey
Anyway, red lasers are basically useless against humans since humans are extremely efficient at diffusing red light throughout their bodies.
plush mason
as i said
vagrant osprey
At the same power level, a blue laser can blow chunks in your skin while a red one just makes your veins visible on the other side.
plush mason
the only lazers that can harm us are the ones that are in the ultraviolet spectrum
vagrant osprey
No, green also works.
vagrant osprey
Or use rockets as bullets
plush mason
No, green also works.
the more power you put in the photons the more they emite non visable light
primal tide
Any laser can kill someone if you yeet it at them fast enough
plush mason
Any laser can kill someone if you yeet it at them fast enough
so could a chesnut
primal tide
Also true
plush mason
yeah anything and everything can be a weapon if you try hard enough
also
i wish more games showd space marines and chaos space marines getting into fistfights
vagrant osprey
I want a game that barely has any space marines in it, and basically depicts them as lore-accurate.
plush mason
I want a game that barely has any space marines in it, and basically depicts the...
yeah
vagrant osprey
Like a game about an IG soldier against nids or something.
When the Astartes come down everybody thinks they're saved, until the Astartes start purging everybody.
plush mason
i woudl rather play as the nids 😛
primal tide
Righteous stand map in vermintide but instead of a blast of faith at the end it's just a space marine drop pod
plush mason
When the Astartes come down everybody thinks they're saved, until the Astartes s...
that would depend on the chapter
vagrant osprey
Blood angels, lamenders, salamanders
The IG can flee to one of those to avoid the purging
storm jungle
Not everyone astartes chapter kills people enmasse lol
and its not like just those 3
it pretty much depends on their given orders too
plush mason
Blood angels, lamenders, salamanders
the lamenders?
whats the name of that one chapter that kills more imperial citicens than most traitors?
starts with an M i think
storm jungle
Marines Malevolent
plush mason
yeah them
primal tide
The Emporers Dingleberries
storm jungle
who are pretty malevolent
vagrant osprey
The Dark Angels are, I think, in second place for that.
storm jungle
Again depends
plush mason
if they think they fallen is there then all bets are off
storm jungle
Really, the only chapters that murder everyone are the ones with names like Flesh Tearers lol
it speaks for itself
plush mason
everybody but the fallen and the dark angels that know about them gona die
plush mason
Really, the only chapters that murder everyone are the ones with names like Fles...
and the malevolent
they spend more time shooting friendlies than they do the enemy..
storm jungle
Yeah if they got evil names you know whats up
vagrant osprey
There are a few others that are extremely violent. The... Shark ones?
The Minotaurs will kill anybody who sees them with their helmet off.
plush mason
the carmadons
vagrant osprey
That one! Thank you!
plush mason
their name means sharktooth in latin btw
storm jungle
The Carcharodons yeah
plush mason
says it all
vagrant osprey
In latin? Or in bad latin?
Because if it's in Latin, they're secretly a traitor legion
Imperial Gothic is explicitly bad latin :V
storm jungle
also it being bad latin is good
normal latin can only get so cool until you gotta edit it
green sedge
But is Binaric just ASCII?
green sedge
Yeah but Binaric Cant has a syntax.
They sound like dial up modems.
And I'm just wondering what encoding they use for the text.
plush mason
1110101110000100011110
btw
i want that unsee button on the side of my head
from that one tehc priest meme
peak hamlet
Binary is 1 or 0 yes but isnt it only 8 digits too? For each symbol?
plush mason
idk
storm jungle
Binary is 1 or 0 yes but isnt it only 8 digits too? For each symbol?
relating to, using, or denoting a system of numerical notation that has 2 rather than 10 as a base.
I think thats a yes....?
plush mason
trinary>binary for any future tech tho
rn we have reached the peak of binary code's potential use
crisp heath
Binary is 1 or 0 yes but isnt it only 8 digits too? For each symbol?
you're probably thinking of the byte system
but i think that's just the encoding we have
and you could use other numbers than 8
peak hamlet
you're probably thinking of the byte system
But isn't that binary?
crisp heath
yes
peak hamlet
Or am i completely lost rn?
crisp heath
The byte is a unit of digital information that most commonly consists of eight bits. Historically, the byte was the number of bits used to encode a single character of text in a computer
basically the bit is the binary 0 or 1
and the byte is the set of 8 bits corresponding to a keyboard character
peak hamlet
Yeah ok than i haven't forgotten everything our teacher told us like 2 months ago
crisp heath
but admech could have a language which encodes more or less bits in one unit
peak hamlet
Isn't that what some computers actually can do? Like having both 0 and 1 at the same time but also not cuz i didn't finished reading the article?
peak hamlet
Ah yes and thats what you call a "qubit", just remembered
Which doesnt have a lot to do with 40k lore but yeah
Too late
celest dome
Isn't Qubit still theoretical ?
primal tide
Best Buy is selling quantum processors now afaik
vagrant osprey
They are not.
vast frigate
lean raven
As a longtime fan I am confused as to why there is even going to be a lasgun in the game
Lore wise using a lasgun against nurgle zombies is like...not anywhere near enough
odd tulip
Lasguns are pretty decent against anything not wearing oodles of armor.
celest dome
And or Plot Armour
serene eagle
Lore wise using a lasgun against nurgle zombies is like...not anywhere near enou...
Lorewise, Lasguns are great, its a space laser ak47
But they are less great when you fight superspeed superhumans clad in superarmor that are 100* more skilled and better armed then you, who are also trying to not get shot
Lasguns in the actual lore are like high caliber rifles. Its only 4chan fluff that lasguns are trash
open marsh
^
odd tulip
The fact that it takes 100 lasguns to kill a space marine says more about space marines than it does about lasguns.
open marsh
Exactly
People think the Space Marines are the standard fighting force to judge everyone else. When the Space Marines are extremely rare. Most in the Imperium will never even see one.
odd tulip
2 million space marines in the imperium, something like 4 quadrillion regular humans
open marsh
The general idea of how many people live in the Imperium is: the Administrum gave up trying to keep count
vast frigate
Youre saying; it takes a lasgun 100 shots to kill a space marine
But we know it can blow out a marine helmet at point blank range
Or
In better logic
It takes 100 guardsmen 1 shot to kill a marine.
Or 50 200% power setting lasguns half a shot
Or 25 hotshots- you get the idea
Pound his face with a twin las accelerator and youre golden
plucky moth
just convince Orks that space marines don't exist
twilit helm
Never happen, those blue bastards are too lucky
Do we have any purple space marines?
twilit helm
Well shit....is that why the blood angels are faster than the average marine? (Besides their primarch being part bird)
Because Ork influence
vast frigate
Yes
twilit helm
Noice
vast frigate
It would make sense considering the comments the orks make on it
Yaknow besides geneseed difference and genetics
"Dem red big umies' da fastest round, do dem wite 'umies got tha roight idea wif speed"
What i like most is their comments on yarick
"E'z got imzelf a lasey eye!"
"So e cant shooty well boss?"
"no ya git e krumps ya wif his eye"
twilit helm
You mean the literal immortal guard captain that can use their weapons because they think he should
vast frigate
Yep
twilit helm
That's hilarious, they basically created their biggest enemy because he just wouldn't fucking die
open marsh
You mean the literal immortal guard captain that can use their weapons because t...
You mean Commissar
vast frigate
Its amazjng tbf
twilit helm
Ya, either way
twilit helm
They sure do love to use those shovels to dig, whether it be holes or brains.
vast frigate
Yee
vast frigate
Yeeeeeeee
open marsh
vast frigate
40k is whack i love it
cloud kindle
odd sparrow
GOOD.
barren tapir
Well shit....is that why the blood angels are faster than the average marine? (B...
IIRC it is noted how the blood angels tanks get more speed when fighting against orks, although that was explained by the imperials as the machine spirits (lol) being eager to fight and to kill the orks
barren tapir
You mean the literal immortal guard captain that can use their weapons because t...
He decided to use a power claw that he cut from a ork leader to have a morale effect on the orks, but the claw had to be modified by the Ad. Mech. who also sanctified it
Regarding his implanted las weapon in the eye that too was a move to play around the myth from the orks that he could kill with a single glare, he heard that and he decided to play on it, so he decided to get that las weapon implanted
final spruce
He calls it the evil eye and its a weapon available in Rogue Trader ot fire a hotshot volley at the enemy
final seal
vagrant osprey
2 million space marines in the imperium, something like 4 quadrillion regular hu...
About 100,000 Astartes, going by lore. There's a lot of chapters, but each chapter is actually really small. 2 million is a more reasonable number given how their deployments are described.
Also, if the million worlds of humanity contain 4 quadrillion people, that's a population density on-par with The Last of Us.