40k-lore-chat

[crisp heath]

Is it pulsed or continous?

[open marsh]

Yeah, space magic martian deathray

[plush mason]

just energy iirc

[odd sparrow]

jesus pulled a pro gamer moment

[distant harness]

Volkite is just adrathic for poor people

[crisp heath]

lel

idk i think we were having a pretty civil discussion

[odd sparrow]

ye this isn't ban material

not even mod loom material

[storm jungle]

its basically like the martian raygun from Mars Attacks

1 sec

[open marsh]

Fun fact, before they were retconned to being "Adrathic" weapons. They were just called "Disintegration" weapons, and there was only 1 example in all of 40k: an Astartes combi-weapon

[storm jungle]

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-09/26/16/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-01/anigif_sub-buzz-11966-1506457251-1.gif?output-quality=auto&output-format=auto&downsize=360:*

Properly krumped

[crisp heath]

banning discussion on heated topics should only be done when the discussion itself becomes inflammatory not preemptively

[crisp heath]

that looks very oldhammer

[atomic pelican]

I love the beak masks

[open marsh]

It was actually from the 30th anniversary

[atomic pelican]

Helmets

[crisp heath]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXUOHb9K9Mo

This one?

sneaky beaky

[plush mason]

i agree but it depends on the moderators

[storm jungle]

yeee!

[open marsh]

I want one of those models. Even if its a recast or something

[storm jungle]

I want updated thunder memewarriors

look at em

so cute

[crisp heath]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X2ALG9iGPg

[atomic pelican]

The disintegration meme is why Iove gauss weapons

[crisp heath]

Now I’m seeing Volkite weapons with Acme written on the side

[storm jungle]

lmao omg

[distant harness]

They still make beaky helmets I'm fairly sure

[atomic pelican]

Like that person getting necrond in the indom trailer

[distant harness]

and there's that weird nostalgia thing they sell

[storm jungle]

https://i.imgur.com/84AgMgH.gif

they probably spent 90% of the budget on this

[atomic pelican]

Necron'd

I love the effect

[storm jungle]

the dust is 👌

[distant harness]

I love how it makes it look like he's actually just falling apart

[atomic pelican]

Funny enough, disintegrate is also one of my favorite spells in pf

[distant harness]

instead of just vanishing like most "disintegration" weapons tend to do

[dim totem]

What's pf?

[crisp heath]

Pathfinder?

[dim totem]

Oh

[atomic pelican]

Ye

[dim totem]

I know of that, but nothing a out it

About

[storm jungle]

its even worse with audio, you can hear him scream as he gets vaporized until his head fully melts and the yell is cut off midway

oh wait wrong @mention FSDKJDS

same thing anyway

[distant harness]

It's like dnd but you have to have a certain level of autism before you're allowed to play

it's very cool

[odd sparrow]

wh

[atomic pelican]

Correct

Im a stringed instrument so I love it

[crisp heath]

Don’t worry I have an autism dial, I’ll be autistic when need be.

[distant harness]

Even just in the videogames, dudes spend so much time in the character creator lol, it's nuts

[crisp heath]

Or maybe I already was and just pretending to be normal human bean

[open marsh]

Less Pathfinder. more beakie

[crisp heath]

So hear me out

[distant harness]

beaky marines are just nerfed verions of magpies, I don't get the hype tbh

[crisp heath]

We get Primaris

But

[dim totem]

But

[crisp heath]

We give them beakies

[dim totem]

You can do that yourself

[crisp heath]

Mark 12 Ravenous armor

[dim totem]

I got one with a beaky helmet ready to glue

[crisp heath]

Beakies but they’re extra beakie

[atomic pelican]

Digging out all the beaked helmet bits in a box, grinding them down, then returning the box

[crisp heath]

Beakies look better and more protagonist than regular marines

Change my mind

[dim totem]

They look more like birds yeh

[open marsh]

MkX Beakie is inferior in every way to MkVI beakie

You cannot change my mind

[crisp heath]

Space marine knights > space peasent helmet thing

[distant harness]

https://tenor.com/view/magpie-bird-tweet-sing-chirping-gif-16192946

space marines sure are cool

[dim totem]

Cool black templar

[atomic pelican]

That opinion is illegal here, you know

[open marsh]

@storm jungle and me know where its more illegal

[storm jungle]

That we do

[barren tapir]

I just finished to read that summary of the gates of bones book... Some things are great, others are just not great... Especially the parts regarding SoB

[odd sparrow]

do i even wanna know

[final seal]

there may be birdseeds in the beakie compartment

snacc while purgin

[barren tapir]

They are stronk... But i think there is a reason behind that... And not one that is good for the imperium...

They are clearly helped by the plot though

[storm jungle]

Yeah it was pretty wanky

the part about them saving the custodian was hmmm

[odd sparrow]

man poor custodes

getting shafted by every single author

[barren tapir]

Exactly... I can see that by being a work of the chaos entities to try to pass religion and faith as being useful against them... Just so that many other start worshipping big e in a fanatical way and doing so fuelling the chaos and their weapons...

[rotund siren]

nice new pfp Truth

[barren tapir]

Thanks Sol

[crisp heath]

i like beakies but i like those fancy helmets with a face some blood angels have even more

those are the best helmets

also the ones dark angels have with wings, but thats cause i watched a lot of asterix as a kid

[dim totem]

man i love asterix and obelix

@plucky moth can we have asterix-and-obelix-lore-chat

[plucky moth]

lmao

I wish

[fallen bloom]

Why not? Clearly they're friends of the emperor and apart of his research leading to thunder warriors

[dim totem]

have you seen obelix?

[plucky moth]

so that means it's 40k lore then

[dim totem]

maybe obelix was actually the god emperor

[molten siren]

https://preview.redd.it/vqqdhq7jllcz.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=091ffc1a2b0de5ee741403bd88a23008c66acdce

[dim totem]

fuck

i need that

MOAR
BOAR

[storm jungle]

dude the movies they had were awesome

the cleopatra one is 👌

[final seal]

this is brilliant

[dim totem]

i remember seeing it in the theater as a kid

[fallen bloom]

Did he just kill an ork warboss and steal his boss pole so he could have more boar? 🤔 I'm OK with this.

[molten siren]

nah, he's more like an ogre

[peak hamlet]

How about this? https://youtu.be/hf04EYSifjE

[copper heart]

(I have no idea what chat to put this here but ere' we go)
What do i call these arm mounted bolter thingies. i love them

[storm jungle]

Okay so Abby's specific one is the Talon of Horus

aside from that Primaris marines also get "boltstorm gauntlets"

But its mostly for the higher ranking people

the grey knights might be the ones that take the cake however on REALLY wide use of bolter gauntlets

[cerulean wagon]

wrist mounted storm bolter

[plush mason]

most of them are just bolters/storm bolters mounted on powerfists/claws

[copper heart]

Gauntlets! How could i forget that

Thanks Dilara

[storm jungle]

Hey as long as it helps

english is confusing so i forget words too lol

[copper heart]

English isn't my first language, but i know it best :P

[storm jungle]

[copper heart]

And yea, almost every grey knight i see has some sort of bolt gauntlet abomination

[open marsh]

Pedro Kantor used them too

[plush mason]

ah the crimson firsts

the imperial first successors that think they are ultramarines........

[peak hamlet]

BuT thEy gOt A sLigHtlY dArKeR bLuE!!!1!!

[plush mason]

but they is also painfully roman

[peak hamlet]

Well as roman as you can get with a 5 min google research

But i agree

[open marsh]

They are Imperial Fists.

[plush mason]

mb

still

they look more like walmart brand ultramarines

[thick shadow]

Just put the guns EVERYWHERE

Las eyes

Nose flamer

Mouth noise weapon

Ears for...

Hm...

[open marsh]

partly purposeful. They were the Imperial Fists who were most accepting of the Codex Astartes and the splitting of the legions

Also they had a Land Raider that went fully autonomous and waged a 1 tank war against Orkz. killing the warboss and much of its WAAAGGGHHHH by itself

[thick shadow]

So, the next "primaris" is IKEA?

[open marsh]

....huh?

[thick shadow]

Walmart

[open marsh]

I dont get it

[peak hamlet]

Same :(

[thick shadow]

There was just Astartes

And then Primaris

If the next happens

Or my mind is Tzeentch

[open marsh]

I think you are having a stroke and need to seek immediate emergency medical attention

[plush mason]

@thick shadow i have to agree wtih medic here

[peak hamlet]

Yeah

[thick shadow]

Astartes. "Improve" = Primaris.

Primaris. "Improve" = ?

[thick shadow]

The start

[thick shadow]

Start of start

[plush mason]

@thick shadow you are scaring me

did you sleep last night?

[thick shadow]

Yes

Which is rare thing in recent

This is science

Or, at least I think

[open marsh]

Considering none of us have any idea what you are even talking about. like at all.....I think your science is failing

[thick shadow]

But I know what I'm saying. It's so Tzeentch.

[open marsh]

burn the heretic

[storm jungle]

Please sleep.

[peak hamlet]

I still don't quite get it

[thick shadow]

But... I had sleep, like... around 17 to 18 hours?

[plush mason]

you slept 17/18 hours or you last slept 17/18 hours ago?

both are bad

the first option is really bad

[thick shadow]

First is what I did

[peak hamlet]

Jesus

[thick shadow]

To avoid the trouble

[celest dome]

well i'll go sleep, have to work tomorrow

[thick shadow]

Have a nice one.

I had field shooting with Biden and the others in my dream by the way.

[plush mason]

what

[rotund siren]

that is an interesting dream

[thick shadow]

He and his fellows chose AR-15 of course

[plush mason]

wtf kind of pills did you take @thick shadow

[thick shadow]

The doc gives

[coarse mirage]

Did he sniff your hair?

[thick shadow]

No, Biden nor the other USA politicians didn't.

I used AK by the way

And the other one

[plush mason]

smart

[thick shadow]

I can't remember the other one though

[plush mason]

but yeah i dont think these pills agree with you

[thick shadow]

Was a submachine gun anyways

[rotund siren]

An AK submachine gun?

Oh nvm

I see what you mean

[thick shadow]

At least I can breath stably now.

[rotund siren]

well, that's good

[thick shadow]

Yes, an AK and a "can't remember" submachine gun

[rotund siren]

yeah

I getcha

[thick shadow]

Biden won at the score

[rotund siren]

wow

[thick shadow]

😔

[storm jungle]

#40k-lore-chat

[thick shadow]

Oh, right

[plush mason]

lol

[rotund siren]

yeah, idk how it got here

[plush mason]

i think @thick shadow is coming out of his stupor finaly

so thats good

[thick shadow]

[plush mason]

ok so

was Dorn's pain glove a real thing in the canon lore or was it just something TTS made up?

[rancid verge]

real thing unless reconned

[plush mason]

why did he have it

[rancid verge]

cant recall exactly, something about using pain to clear his senses and focus on the task at hand

Dorn is/was a odd due

dude*

[plush mason]

i mean he was basicly a brick wall tuned into human

[rancid verge]

only recently read that the Imperial Fists dont have his full body skeleton anymore, just his arm

yea, but the Heresy and the Iron Warriors broke that wall man dude but good

[open marsh]

His hand

[rancid verge]

Oh, not even his full arm, just his hand now?

[plush mason]

so is dorn dead in the canon?

[rancid verge]

unknown

[plush mason]

so most likely yes but no one is willing to say so

typical

[rancid verge]

hahaha, yup

[plush mason]

it pains me to say it but

the same is propably true of russ aswell :c

[rancid verge]

Russ is alive, Magnus knows where he is too, but he aint saying shit

[vagrant osprey]

He's almost certainly moderately autistic.

He exhibits almost every symptom, and that portrayal is consistent.

I know several people with moderate-to-severe ASD, and they had each independently arrived at this conclusion.

[crisp heath]

quite literal-minded, has his specific focus, intelligent but kind of inflexible. kinda checks out afaik

[vagrant osprey]

Yes.

He personally oversaw and planned the construction of the Terra hive, which covers almost the entire planet with a city which has been described as being 10 miles deep.

That was his great crusade.

[crisp heath]

i guess in a sense he was extremely lucky that he got the perfect opportunities of massive scope to do what he enjoys and is good at

[vagrant osprey]

Yep

And the Emperor was fine with letting him do his thing.

[crisp heath]

like, shit, fuck, if you dressed me all in gold and then tell me i have to dress and armor all your troops i'd shit myself with happiness too.

all the primarchs with daddy issues
meanwile dorn playing planetary scale lego

[vagrant osprey]

Yep

[coarse mirage]

Well soon

he's gonna be

Dorn waiting and come back

https://tenor.com/view/husky-pun-dog-meme-gif-9639526

[marsh grail]

So am I missing something or did the death guard turn to Nurgle super easily? It’s like if I punched someone in the face and then gave them pain killers and an ice pack and they pledge their loyalty to me.

Like come on have a little faith in the emperor.

[rancid verge]

Fucking Typhon fucked them all over, delivered them perfectly to Nurgle, it was either be tortured for eternity or join Papa Nurgle. Mortartion couldn't stand seeing his sons suffer, chose servitude for them all.

[plush mason]

yeah he got one of the rawer deals of all the primarchs

[celest dome]

Well there is a difference btw being punched in the face and have all of your Friend/sons start developing debilitating plague that will kill them (in a gruesome way) and the only one who can help you is the one that made you sick

[plush mason]

yeah nurgle's "love" is more like hate but with a smile

in the real world he would be that guy with the STD that goes around intentualy infecting his partners

[odd sparrow]

ew

[dusk skiff]

what's more commonly referred to as "bug chasers", yeah they're pretty fucking gross

although i don't know if that covers the people who intentionally infect others

but if you wanna see a very Nurgle documentary check out The Gift

[plush mason]

a bug chaser is someone that trys to get infected

intentaly infecting others is a crime and comes with prison time on convition

[dusk skiff]

it appears (from my light googling) that there isn't a general term for those that purposefully infect others
poxwalkers?

[plush mason]

scumbag works

[dusk skiff]

sure, but that's one of those all poxwalkers are scumbags but not all scumbags are poxwalkers

[open marsh]

Fucked in the head is the best descriptor

[plush mason]

that too

[plush mason]

that is really true of the ones that do it cuz "hurhur my STD no hurt people science bad"

[crisp heath]

Could you avoid execution if after exposition to something daemonic you were recruited by the inquisition and proven untainted?

[open marsh]

Yes

[crisp heath]

Like, inquisitor direly needs meatshields. Fuck it those guardsmen that bayonetted a bloodletter to death will do.

[cerulean wagon]

yup

hense darktide

"i need bodies, and theres these convicts"

[crisp heath]

Yes but i mean specifically if you were exposed to daemons

Ordo malleus usually executes even assisting forces for that

[cerulean wagon]

being exposed to demons doesnt mean you'll be killed

thats weird meme malleus lore from grail knight stuff

grail?

i meant grey

[crisp heath]

Ahh

[storm jungle]

yeah its why the existence of the Grey knights is even more stupid with a big fucking rift tearing the galaxy in half

demons shouldnt be kept a secret

[crisp heath]

Fair yeah

[cerulean wagon]

demonic incursion on ships is rare

but when it happens

its the ships crews who deal with it

if you killed everyone involved you now dont have an experienced crew

[crisp heath]

True

[cerulean wagon]

also like

yeah its weird lore

like armageddon

the first war of Armageddon is the main cause of that weird lore blight

which was the grey knights stuff

war happened, followed by the "months of shame" in which the inquisition were trying to kill the entire planets population and all assisting guard forces

while the space wolves attempted to stop them

[glass cairn]

iirc hasnt every canon example of exterminatus the inquisitor has been declared a heretic?

[cerulean wagon]

not every but most yes

very rarely is using it deemed worth the resource cost

[odd sparrow]

yea it's a nice dynamic

[storm jungle]

also isnt an exterminatus a planetary bombardment too?

hence the resource cost since its not done by a single ship just pressing the red button

[cerulean wagon]

depends on the ordinance in use

usualy it requires several ships

but some of the larger vessels carry planet cracker rounds

[coarse mirage]

Not in California, not anymore. Great huh?

[cerulean wagon]

even outside of that, there are only so many habitable planets in the galaxy, and most have unique resources

like say this planet is abundant in prometheum

and supplies the nearest 4 solar systems

and you just remove that resource entirely

[storm jungle]

Makes sense...

[cerulean wagon]

funnily enough the closest thing to covering that is the intro for space marine

literaly like a 30 second evaluation of the planetary value

[final spruce]

Absolute

[cerulean wagon]

https://youtu.be/EHy0JVNCwsM

[final spruce]

Strategic value ? A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E

[storm jungle]

god that intro is so good

[cerulean wagon]

its small details

and hams it up a bit because its gotta be interesting for video games

but its amazing

[storm jungle]

Im just watching it again now and still get that giddy feeling lol

[cerulean wagon]

like

its such a good coverage of the assessment of a conflict

[final spruce]

That's pretty fast for 40k

[cerulean wagon]

simplified down but great lore wise

ehh 5-37 days is short distance

hense "minor elements in system"

they are local forces

[storm jungle]

Yeah its simply:

Segmentum>Sector>Planet>Planet Name>Planet type>Production output

then from there its decided whether to save it or not

[cerulean wagon]

yup

I think i mention it a bit too much but 40k does a good job of like

giving the foundations for an actualy working system

everything has a value that the characters can assess to their own beliefs

and there are expect and appropriate response times and hazards and stuff

it all feels very living

its not just "oh fuck orks we ded"

the IG forces stationed are holding it well considering the size of the waaagh, and the reinforcements are deployed asap

theres a sense of competence to it thats nice, always hate when you touch a setting and suddenly everyone is incompetence so you can be the main character

[storm jungle]

Yeeee

its why i hate the stupid shit about "oh by the time fleets arrive everyone is dead"

It could happen sure but its not all the time ffs

[cerulean wagon]

yeah

PDF can hold a line decently, IG even more so

[final spruce]

you mean guards

[cerulean wagon]

sorry am a ill boi today so heads a mess haha

[final spruce]

Understandable

rest well skelly boy

Even tho we know your head is empty

[storm jungle]

[cerulean wagon]

but ye one of the cain books covers a naval captain of the SDF (system defence fleet) who routed the entire first wave of a chaos incursion into a system

wow zher

rude

[final spruce]

I mean you're a skeleton

Its only bones left

[cerulean wagon]

[final spruce]

Hey be proud of what you are

[rotund siren]

head empty but many thoughts

[cerulean wagon]

you're all mean to me

[rotund siren]

no, you see, you physically have an empty head, because you are a skeleton, you have no brain, no blood-brain barrier, no scalp, nor hair. No eyes fill their sockets and no tongue fits within your mouth; thus, your head is empty, but your mind remains full

[final spruce]

Correction, I'm just stating the truth

[cerulean wagon]

[coarse mirage]

And the fact that there's a titan on the planet

[storm jungle]

are titans that important?

i see them everywhere lol

[celest dome]

Titan are kinda important, a whole lot more than Knights

[vernal belfry]

I would say that, more than titans, their means of production are important

Which appears to be the case here

[cerulean wagon]

they are super rare in standard lore outside of like

imperial knights if you count those as titans

Like, imperators cannot be replaced at all

[odd sparrow]

yea titans are meant to be like, superweapons basically. if u haven't got a titan u can't beat a titan

[cerulean wagon]

outside of a select few titan killers

like shadowswords, which are titan weapons mounted on a tank

[final spruce]

On a behemot of a tank

[cerulean wagon]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f1/c0/19/f1c019aa289b76b92b5a5acc418e3607.jpg

hense this is the best baneblade variant

[final spruce]

Or you can be Pask and use Leman Russes

[cerulean wagon]

i mean

vanquishers and executioners could take out a titan

with enough combined fire and depending on the class

that being these 2 variants

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/2d/33/9a/2d339a1656b43e7bcff8fabbb42fec60.jpg

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/5/52/VanMA3.jpg

[final spruce]

Demolitioner seems to also be able to do that job

[cerulean wagon]

YE

woops caps

russes pack a lot of punch for their size

Its why despite their power baneblades are deployed with support

because without it, russ packs would eat them alive

[visual pumice]

"Some enterprising phaerons, such as the infamous Imotekh the Stormlord, will infect their fleeing foes with insidious bloodswarm nanoscarabs. These microscopic constructs seethe within the bodies of their hosts and broadcast a signal that draws the Flayed Ones like moths to a flame, sowing panic and discord long after the battle is over."

dude what a dickhead

[cerulean wagon]

that be necrons for you

[visual pumice]

that's some horror movie shit

get home barely alive and flayed ones are at the door

[barren tapir]

And i would say he isn't the only one...

[barren tapir]

We could say that it take one to recognize one

[barren tapir]

Kinda... But is a wide spectrum though

[coarse mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/necrons-wh40k-gif-7750560

[visual pumice]

yes

with more rotten skin and bones i imagine

[crisp heath]

this is such a beautiful baneblade

it warms my heart to just look at it

[odd sparrow]

big dick cannon

[final seal]

shadowsword 💦

[cerulean wagon]

yes

[final seal]

btw what is the lifespan of an average ork boy

?

at what age they are capable of combat

[odd sparrow]

i understand that orks are meant to be biologically immortal? tho not sure if that's current fluff

[rotund siren]

neat

like lobsters

[crisp heath]

yes they just grow bigger

until they get krumped

[rotund siren]

too big for they got damn bootz

[final seal]

🤔

given their fighty life, i figure they die anyway even if they are immortal

short life for such gift

[cerulean wagon]

an ork just sort of grows

and when it is "born" is combat ready

since they are mushrooms its kinda weird

[coarse mirage]

Radical idea: the Black Templars are a defect in the Imperial Fist gene seed

[ashen zenith]

is there any explanation to why the emperor allowed lorgar to be a religious nut for 100 years before telling him he actually doesnt like that (and burning down his city)??

or is it just bad unplanned writing

[final seal]

arent orks more ancient

since theyre made by the old ones

[atomic pelican]

The emperor is not known for his good decision making, esp not relating to his sons

[coarse mirage]

Maybe he was hoping it was just a phase

[final spruce]

The lore says that the Emperor was aware that Lorgar thought of him as a God but allowed him as long as it was something he did alone and didn't spread it, turns out Lorgar wouldn't leave a single planet he conquered without the entire population believing in the Emperor as God by both converting the believers and killing the non-believers, and killing in the name of religion was the single thing Big E hated the most

[ashen zenith]

one would think the first thing the emperor wouldve done when he comes to a world that has a huge focus on religion and finds that his primarch not only considers him as a god but has convinced all of his followers of this too the first thing he would be to tell him that he hates religion

[barren tapir]

I don't remember where but i read that an ork, even if "young" can wield a blade on par of SM

[barren tapir]

Yes, big e needed commanders, and while lorgar was exactly what he tried to destroy big e let him keeping his religious POV as long lorgar would keep it to himself and his legion that thing... But lorgar, being the brain dead religious person he was, didn't listen and thought he knew better and converted all worlds he conquered to his religion... Since all primarchs were quite independent and weren't really watched over no one knew that until some official got dispatched to see why the worlds he brought in compliance were so few and took so long... Then after that a group of custodes was attached to the word bearers to make sure they would follow the emperor orders

[cerulean wagon]

the emporer wasnt omnipotent at the time, so he didnt know

galaxies a big place, not everything feeds back to him

[barren tapir]

Oh, he did, he made quite clear to lorgar that he wanted him to spread the Imperial Truth, and that he wanted all religions to be erased... In fact that was also part of their "pact", colchis wouldn't be destroyed and instead it would have been left as lorgar shaped it

[coarse mirage]

I just can't get over how Big E went to the Chaos Gods and struck a bargain

[barren tapir]

That is what horus get told... We don't really know if big e really made a pact with the chaos entities afaik... It is kinda hard to believe that since it is know as the anathema to demons, and not like the trickster or the betrayer...

[glass cairn]

Except that Lorgar was completely right

The emperor has achieved/will achieve apotheosis and has literal daemons (living saints etc)

Like everyone loves to bash lorgar forgetting the Imperial Truth was a lie probably in an attempt to starve the chaos gods - but in reality not only was Lorgar right, but arguably the imperial creed is a better system for unifying mankind.

[plush mason]

the imeprial truth is nto a lie

[gaunt vector]

Lorgar has probably done as much if not more for the imperium than he has for the Chaos Gods

[plush mason]

the creed is

it was writen by a traitor

lorgar always served chaos never the emperor

[glass cairn]

There are literal chaos gods

How can the imperial truth be true on that fact alone

And aside from that he was absolutely correct about the emperor’s apotheosis

[plush mason]

the imperial truth is that science logic and galactic conquest is the way forward for humanity

and that religion and supertition is the enemy

[glass cairn]

Yeah which is incorrect

[plush mason]

wrong

look at the wrold rn

supertition is one of the main reasons everythin is so fucked up

[glass cairn]

You can argue that, you can also argue that it’s kept the imperium together - but all of that is beside the point

Gods exist in 40K

[plush mason]

so?

[glass cairn]

Ergo imperial truth is straight up a lie

[plush mason]

does that mean people should worship them?

[crisp heath]

Yes

[plush mason]

no

[crisp heath]

The Emperor I mean

[glass cairn]

It says they don’t exist

[plush mason]

he was not a god

[crisp heath]

Working out for the SoB

[final spruce]

Chaos Gods are laughably evil in 40k and you gain very little from worshipping them when it comes to freedom

[plush mason]

he has been made into one

[gaunt vector]

I think the Emperor certainly studied Deamons and how the power structures of the Chaos Gods work. He then moddled himself as an anti-Chaos God.

[storm jungle]

He never wanted to be a god tho

[plush mason]

^

[storm jungle]

the entire irony of the setting is based on that fact alone

since uh

hes being, you know

worshipped now

[crisp heath]

We never want to be things, but shit has to be done

[storm jungle]

I mena if you want to get tied to a torture chair for decades

be my guest

[crisp heath]

Just cause one never asked for something doesn't mean it still doesn't need to be done

[plush mason]

i dont think himb eing a god was needed

[crisp heath]

Alternative is Chaos and Orks

[cerulean wagon]

its not about if its needed

he is a god

[plush mason]

again lroagr wrote that as a chaos worshipper

[cerulean wagon]

that is the setting

[glass cairn]

I like this quote from the wiki:

“It was a contradiction that was never reconciled. The onset of the Horus Heresy crushed the growing belief in the Imperial Truth by revealing many of its tenets to be a "Great Lie" -- the supernatural did exist, and religion proved to be a crucial component of Humanity's defence against the entities of the Warp.”

[plush mason]

eh

ignorance is a poor defence

superstition is nothing but ignorance

[cerulean wagon]

its not superstition if its true

[plucky moth]

in the context of 40k superstition isn't fake

[atomic pelican]

The emperor as we all know, was infact, a browser of /r/atheism

[plush mason]

again the warp is just another part of the universe

[glass cairn]

Yeah except it’s clearly not all superstition is it; that’s not to say the imperium isn’t superstitious- but in this universe it’s not superstitious to believe that there is non material powers

[plush mason]

just a natural force

non material stuff doesnt meen its divine in nature

[glass cairn]

Yep

[atomic pelican]

This is like arguing that gods in ES aren't gods just because they're on another plane

Or any fantasy setting

[glass cairn]

Anyone read that last church book

Pure cringe

Like an edgy 14 year olds understanding of religion

[crisp heath]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity

[atomic pelican]

Yee, It's really funny how the Emprah really does fit that perfect definition

Being a reddit atheist that is

[glass cairn]

For someone so intelligent in that particular instance he is written like an ignorant child

[atomic pelican]

We embrace the true gods of the universe, those of the Star Gods

[crisp heath]

I'd say Emperor is indeed a god within the definitions of what is considered a god

[glass cairn]

^

I think that’s unarguable

[atomic pelican]

And yeah, It's hard to write a truly omnipotent character + for plot reasons he's just kind of incompetent in alo tof ways

and yee

[barren tapir]

There are no gods, and superstition or faith is just psychic power in disguise

[crisp heath]

psychic is magic science which of itself glorified magic

[atomic pelican]

40k is pretty much a fantasy setting disguised in scifi so yee

[crisp heath]

^

[plush mason]

i mean that whole page can be summed up in one sentance "i dont understand this very powerfull thing. there fr it must be a supernatural being."

cuz thats all a "god" is

humans failing to understand

[atomic pelican]

• "a being with powers greater than those of ordinary humans, but who interacts with humans, positively or negatively, in ways that carry humans to new levels of consciousness, beyond the grounded preoccupations of ordinary life"*

[barren tapir]

I mean, we have cults worshipping demons, some cults may pop up worshipping custodes, or SM too... The thing is that there are no gods, and on that the Imperial Truth is correct, only entities that claim to be gods... Sure, there are entities stronger than others, but no gods

[atomic pelican]

This seems pretty accurate for most Gods of 40k

[plush mason]

correct

[atomic pelican]

If you just replace "humans" with "whatever faction ur talking about" it fits with the Eldar/etc too

[barren tapir]

And lorgar was a dumb AH

[crisp heath]

It depends on what you define as gods

[glass cairn]

I think that’s just twisting definitions

[plush mason]

gods dont really exists its just most lesser things tend to worship greater things cuz they fear them and dont understand

[crisp heath]

Again, it depends on one's definition of what a god is

[atomic pelican]

I think most people who aren't trying to pick a fight with religion would agree that the wiki's definition of a god fits pretty well, same for academic/studious topics on the subject of religion

[crisp heath]

^

[glass cairn]

I think it’s gonna pretty hard to not define several beings in 40K as gods

[barren tapir]

The Imperial Truth was a tool, exactly like religion, but while religion try to keep you blind the Imperial Truth try to get you to understand and see the reality for what it is... Sure, it wasn't a perfect tool, since it should have been less adamant in the fact that some other extraverse entities may exist, but aren't worthy of anything... But eh, the setting demanded that everything became grimdark sooo

[plush mason]

correct

the wording of the imperial truth is wrtien like ti is becuz most people are to small minded to understand that

[crisp heath]

Also on the practical matter, it is psychic space and for all intents and purposes thought space magic. It'd be better to have the Emperor further empowered to fight Chaos than to basically see go three monkeys

[plush mason]

that power =/= godhood

[glass cairn]

The imperial truth is literal fedora tipping madness

[atomic pelican]

Yeee

"I will now slaughter all religions on earth", said big e, and everyone in /r/atheism said "In this moment I am euphoric."

[glass cairn]

If the emperor hadn’t lied about it there’s no reason he couldn’t have had the best of both worlds

[barren tapir]

I disagree on that, i prefer the blank way... You cannot be corrupted if you don't have a soul... And you cannot feed the chaos entities

[crisp heath]

Nah

Why waste power?

Dominate the warp as a resource, not throw it out

[plush mason]

that was his plan

[atomic pelican]

Man I love sentinels

[crisp heath]

He should've played god then, hell if I know he already is

[barren tapir]

Because to have it as a power source you must have it populated, so giving another enemy to fight to mankind

[glass cairn]

The idea of religion vs science is a 19th century historiographical position popular among atheists today that has been abandoned by modern academics because it was just oversimplified nonsense

[atomic pelican]

Yeeep

[plush mason]

this is true

[barren tapir]

The you may love the fellesian one... Jump pack, or grav-chutes, equipped sentinels

[glass cairn]

Like you could have a society of reason and progress that also understood that there were hostile supernatural beings and that the emperor had achieved apotheosis

[plush mason]

still the idea they can coxeist is also foolish

[atomic pelican]

It's also because religion is too important to culture to simply abandon. The problem is that most people angry at religion as a whole only recognize it through their experiences

[crisp heath]

Personally I know that I do not know, and currently humans in their current form do not know fully the universe and its function

[plush mason]

correct

but that doesnt meen we should wroship the unknown

[glass cairn]

Mankind is a spiritual animal

[barren tapir]

Not necessarily, but in such situation religion is bound to disappear

[plush mason]

and thats more of a weakness than a strength

[glass cairn]

I disagree

Especially in the case of the 40K universe

[barren tapir]

Religion purpose was exactly that to explain what they didn't know...

[atomic pelican]

Not really. Religion has guided humanity through alot of really bad times. The catholic church basically upheld science's very existence in the middle ages. Hosting schools and such

[glass cairn]

Which faith actually protects you from daemons and shit

[plush mason]

and they did it in a very bad way

[plush mason]

so wrong

[barren tapir]

I disagree on this... Humans were definitely a spiritual animal, but i see them becoming something more

[atomic pelican]

This is literally right

[plush mason]

that was islam

[atomic pelican]

Galileo was even hoisted by the catholic church

[dull flame]

Thin the outliers before the main horde arrives.

[plush mason]

the catholic church burned more books than it keept

[atomic pelican]

Islam in the middle east, yes, did host science there

[crisp heath]

Evidence if you so will

[atomic pelican]

The church hosted basically every institution of learning in ye olden days

[crisp heath]

I am not Catholic, but accusations need proof

[barren tapir]

Not really, he was limited by the church

[plush mason]

^

[atomic pelican]

He was at the end yes,

But the church hosted his research at first

Until it disagreed with their views

[plush mason]

and thats its main problem

[glass cairn]

To be fair that was in asserting something as fact which he could not actually get proof

[atomic pelican]

The research would've never happened had it not been for them. But yes that was the problem

[glass cairn]

He was correct but it was other people who verified that

[plush mason]

id you not learn of the great purge of the first inquisiton?

[atomic pelican]

Most major universities that still stand today started as seminary schools

[crisp heath]

No, which is why I'd like you to elaborate with proof

[barren tapir]

This is not entirely wrong, but not entirely right too... It is quite more complicated than saying that they upheld science, as they were more limiting the development of it

[crisp heath]

Documentation if you will

[plush mason]

https://www.history.com/topics/religion/inquisition#:~:text=The Inquisition has its origins,continued into the 14th Century.

[barren tapir]

Inquisition isn't exactly as saying church though...

[atomic pelican]

It also doesn't help that most edgier views about religion come from people who have no understanding of it outside of the abrahamics

As in, not every religion is southern baptism

[barren tapir]

IIRC the oldest true university was a secular one... The bologna one iirc

[crisp heath]

I guess I got readin to do

[plush mason]

correct

[atomic pelican]

DSFSDN

[dull flame]

Neil Degrasse Tyson is born. Facts.

[atomic pelican]

FAX

[barren tapir]

Oh yes, when most of the religion discussion pops up it is always the catholic faith, but we should always keep our mind open to discuss other religions too

[plush mason]

there was a point when the chruch saw all forms of progress as heresy

[barren tapir]

Italians start drawing dicks killed me lol

[plush mason]

that point lasted fro almost 1k years and say many scientists and free thinkers killed or cencured

[atomic pelican]

Most scientists in Europe in the past 1k years have been christians who worked alongside the church, or with their allowance

[glass cairn]

John Lennox does some great work dismissing the idea of the opposition of religion and science

[atomic pelican]

Yee, It's really neat. I'm not religious myself but I took some theology classes in uni, It's a really neat subject

[glass cairn]

That a huge amount of science was born out of the belief in a lawgiver and thus a search for laws

[plush mason]

if the 2 had set sphears of infulence they coudl easily work togeather

sadly they both overlap in many areas

[glass cairn]

John Lennox holds that religion and science are complimentary

[plucky moth]

I'm not religious but, in the event I'm wrong...

[atomic pelican]

FHNFN

[glass cairn]

He uses a good analogy of tea

[plush mason]

they are and they arent

some parts compliment others conflict

[glass cairn]

I think America specifically with extremists sects are true of that

They need to read some Augustine (or Aquinas I forget)

[atomic pelican]

Aquinas yuss

[glass cairn]

Which basically says stop making Christians look dumb by denying scientific truths

[barren tapir]

Well, the majority of them should stop doing that

[glass cairn]

And that was like 1000 years ago

[plush mason]

agreed

[barren tapir]

Yo, this is really nice

[glass cairn]

I don’t think the majority of Christians hold views that are that deeply antithetical to religion

[atomic pelican]

Religions, like any other part of culture, change over time. They shift to fit their culture and values of those who follow them. They will continue to change to fit us as humanity grows

[plush mason]

thats not always true

[atomic pelican]

The ones that don't die off

[glass cairn]

Tbh the whole religion vs science seems something born specifically out of the American context and doesn’t really stand true to other countries experience of religion

[atomic pelican]

Yee^

[barren tapir]

I'm saddened to admit that this may be true, and that we will never get rid of it...

[plush mason]

for years the church tried to stop sociaty from changing so it wouldnt have to

[atomic pelican]

But society still changed

And the church changed with it, afterwards

[plush mason]

yes

[storm jungle]

[atomic pelican]

Depends on the church of course

WE LIVE

IN A SOCEITY.

[storm jungle]

But yeah jokes aside

i dont like religion either but its never gonna go away

you just gotta live with it sadly

[atomic pelican]

jokerfied

[storm jungle]

Me? Yes.

[plush mason]

im more than willing to if the religius community is

[barren tapir]

Wow, Dilara come in and stab me two times in what... Less than 1 second?

[plush mason]

they are not offten willing

[final spruce]

Onky 3 times in one second ? That's not alot of stabbin

[atomic pelican]

Sneaky stabbin

[plush mason]

the main problem is that the "big 3" reglions are totalitarian and think that all humans must follow their creed

[rotund siren]

"BuT mUH TraDITIOnal VaaAaAalues"

[barren tapir]

She was gentle... I think at least

[atomic pelican]

Honestly t hat's not even true with the abrahamics in full, as you have sects that are specifically humanitarian/egalitarian

The quakers are my favorite

[glass cairn]

Not trying to be inflammatory; but I think atheism has been coasting on its success against religion (some legit criticism some poor criticism) and will soon have difficulty actually defending its world view and its metaphysical implications

[atomic pelican]

They supported egalitarianism in early america

[glass cairn]

Like the current choice for atheism between relativism and nihilism is a weak position

[storm jungle]

Real question

[rotund siren]

Judaism is pretty chill, afaik

[storm jungle]

can religion actually give us faith powers please

[atomic pelican]

It depends on the form. I think. I'm an atheist personally. But alot of atheists define their atheism as having a superiority complex to those around them.

PLEASE

YES

[storm jungle]

im waitin' here allah

[rotund siren]

Christianity are the ones who really want to fuck people up who don't believe

[storm jungle]

🇹🇷

[atomic pelican]

I've said it before, I'd be religious if priests carried warhammers

[final spruce]

I mean if we could become clerics and paladin with actual powers, religion would be a lot more spread

[cerulean wagon]

lets not get onto that sol

[rotund siren]

Uh oh.

[crisp heath]

Depends on which era and whom

[glass cairn]

For me it was philosophy that turned me to faith

[cerulean wagon]

prob best we dont sling shit at religions incase someone gets offended

[crisp heath]

Remember Christianity subdivides a lot

[atomic pelican]

Quakers are cool

[crisp heath]

Eh, sling shit all ya want

[plush mason]

that is correct

[glass cairn]

Infinite regression cannot be sustained

[crisp heath]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't need others views on religion for validation

[atomic pelican]

Valid salad

[plush mason]

that wnt stop the regressionist from trying tho

[glass cairn]

Honestly a legitimate criticism by atheists is that many people don’t understand their own religion and are superstitious and ignorant

[storm jungle]

Hey we can make a religion out of this

[atomic pelican]

Out of that emote?

yes

[plush mason]

i like this idea

[glass cairn]

But I do genuinely believe that if people studied classical philosophy and theology they would be much more inclined towards religion

[barren tapir]

Wow, from where this come from?

[rotund siren]

Scientologists looking at a work of fiction about aliens

[storm jungle]

GOD

[crisp heath]

Heretics, soarin spaghetti lad was the one true being

[dull flame]

https://www.deviantart.com/celeng/art/Death-Korps-Engineer-804962023

[barren tapir]

If you want to get rich you don't write sci-fi books, you make up relgion...

[plush mason]

thats cuz they are fool cultists that follow a scam

[rotund siren]

yes

[barren tapir]

Aaawww crap, i hoped it was some manual

[plush mason]

yes

[barren tapir]

The only true god is the flying spaghetti monster

[crisp heath]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Gods

[dull flame]

Oh I wish. That'd be sweet to have. 😦

[crisp heath]

He could easily become a deity in this

[barren tapir]

Ehy, why the FSM is on the right? He deserve the left side

[atomic pelican]

Atheists on sciencemas when science claus comes down the chimney

[barren tapir]

I mean, meatballs are just like planets, coincidence? I think not!

https://tenor.com/view/coincidence-i-think-not-coincidence-i-think-not-the-incredibles-gif-5096707

I was waiting to have a reason to use that

[glass cairn]

The only serious issue of religion if we’re talking scholarship is the issue of suffering - modern academics religious or otherwise don’t even bother with the vast majority of popular culture arguments

[crisp heath]

heh

[glass cairn]

Specifically the issue of natural evil

[storm jungle]

but yeah

thats our pitch for the unification wars

when do we start

[crisp heath]

Good and evil are subjective for all intents and purposes

[storm jungle]

Everything is subjective for all intents and purposes

[crisp heath]

Subjective from the lenses of the human mind

[glass cairn]

Ewww relativism

[storm jungle]

Yes uh

last time i checked we're human

[atomic pelican]

maybe you

[barren tapir]

Are we?

[storm jungle]

🐒

[glass cairn]

@atomic pelican has achieved apotheosis

[storm jungle]

no shes a genestealer

[barren tapir]

Aren't we just an amalgamation of matter?

[crisp heath]

Ah shit, they're onto us

[storm jungle]

dont listen

[atomic pelican]

Both of these are correct

[glass cairn]

I’m writing the lectitio divinitus for her

[atomic pelican]

Be not afraid

[storm jungle]

Humanity:

[atomic pelican]

FHNFN

[glass cairn]

FRFSRF

[atomic pelican]

My transformation shall be painful but in th eend it will be worth it

[plush mason]

lol

[glass cairn]

Gonna split our galaxy in half like slaneesh smh

🤦‍♂️

[crisp heath]

But yeah, subjective lenses don't change objective reality. Terms we apply to things don't change that they are what they are. Reality was the same before us, it will be after us, and it was always was with us.

[plush mason]

correct

i mean thats the entire argument about gods

just becuz we see them as gods doesnt make them gods

[fast forge]

Most of the sentient races were created by lizards anyway, or evolved from their creations

In 40k anyway

[atomic pelican]

Taugang wins again

or nids

[crisp heath]

We need to remind him to go back home

stop it before it begins

[atomic pelican]

Push them back!

[plush mason]

yes

[plush mason]

i love it

[final seal]

we're hivemind nanorobots running on chemical reactions

[open marsh]

lorechat has become memes channel :l

[final seal]

i wonder if there are internets in the imperium so they can have in-planet/segmentum/sector memes

[open marsh]

Yeah. there is, of a sort

Like all Forge Worlds are connected to Mars via astropathic servitors. Creating essentially a server network

And in older void ship designs there was a "subvox" system that is mostly a mystery by 40k, but served to transmit data wirelessly around the ship

The Mechanicus also has the Noosphere, which is short ranged Wifi

On the intro cutscene of the Space Marine video game, you can see Inquisitors using essentially an instant messenger program

[copper heart]

This might sound stupid but you guys are an actual encyclopedia for all things lore.
Couldn't you convince an ork that this nerf gun with a flashlight in it will kill them in one shot, turn on the flashlight and they would die?
Whats the extent of ork imagination warp fuckery?

[plush mason]

you need to convence a lot of them for it to work

the more orks that think something will work the more likely it is to work

[copper heart]

So in a complete hypothetical where i managed to convince a ton of orks that it will work, the flashlight will actually kill them?

[plush mason]

yup

[copper heart]

Amazing.

[rancid verge]

or one real strong weirdboy

again, paint it red, makes it go faster DOES work for the orkz, hahahahaha

[smoky breach]

Just make the laser gun insanely big, and make a speech to the warboss about it.

[limpid hedge]

Yes. It get worse though. I heard a story about a group of space marines surrounded by Orks. The space marines were all out of ammo so they ran out of where they were surrounded pointing there guns and yelling DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA. And that killed all of the orks

[smoky breach]

And put gork and morks symbol all over it.

That is the funniest 40k story I’ve heard to date.

[copper heart]

Once orks learn to finally stop fighting eachother, were all doomed

[plush mason]

omg really?

LOL

[open marsh]

gonna need a source on that one

[atomic pelican]

I think that was actually guard

I remember hearing Bricky talk about that story

[plush mason]

omfg

[open marsh]

still gonna need a source

[plush mason]

thats the crazist thing i have ever heared

[limpid hedge]

Ok. I’ll try and remember where I found that

Oh ok. It was a fan made thing. Also it was with guards men

[atomic pelican]

Yee

I remember Bricky talking about it in Dicecheck's xenos video

It's a good meme tho

[limpid hedge]

Ye

[plush mason]

ok that makes a lot more sence

[limpid hedge]

Ye. Though it wouldn’t surprise me if that actually happened

[plush mason]

if enough of the orks think it will work it will so anything is possible

hell their ships fly thru space purely by the orks belive they will and the mad work of their meks

[atomic pelican]

I should read their codex. Those are always fun

[vagrant osprey]

40k was designed so that literally every other piece of media could happen in it somewhere

[limpid hedge]

Yup

[vagrant osprey]

Cyberpunk 2077? Could just be a hive world that slipped out of contact.

[atomic pelican]

Yee

40k's fluff is designed to fit people's army stories and narratives so it makes sense

[vagrant osprey]

Lord of the Rings? Agriworld cut off by the malestrom.

Warhammer fantasy? A planet stuck in the central node of the Webway

[limpid hedge]

The lord of the rings Orks and the gobbos would be just mutations of humans

Rather than real orks

[vagrant osprey]

Technically, by the lore of both the Orcs would be Drukari experimentations on other elves

[limpid hedge]

True.

[rancid verge]

@plush mason https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/iphvmw/spoilers_excerpt_apocalypse_a_dreadnought/

i think you'd enjoy this alot

[plush mason]

wow

[crisp heath]

The Dreadnought leaned forward. ‘I know you now. One of Kor Phaeron’s curs. You liked to burn books, I recall.’ Another staccato laugh. ‘Books aren’t known for fighting back, are they?’

Pretty cool line, and an interesting Astartes overall

[rancid verge]

i recommend the whole story, it was some top notch 40k

[restive turtle]

That was my first hand held 40k Book that I read. Apocalypse. Quite a nice read.

@smoky breach I told you about this one

[smoky breach]

Ah, then I’m glad I forgot, so I could relive the story. :P

[cloud kindle]

i want to get the book about girlymans return

what ones that one

[distant harness]

One of the gathering storm ones I think?

Watchers of the throne and dark imperium too maybe

[coarse mirage]

Yeah it’s a neat book

It’s called Apocalypse

That dread is responsible for the whole imperiums faith

[barren tapir]

That dread was once a word bearers, but instead of go down with the legion he found his faith in the emperor being rekindled...

[coarse mirage]

He's to blame for all of it

[median sundial]

Do Space Marines shit or do their bodies digest the food they eat so much that nothing is left?

[odd sparrow]

th-

no comment

[median sundial]

Better think of something quick, I have a book to write.

[coarse mirage]

I think they can go without food and water for a while, but they do eat and drink. In a warzone their armor and its systems likely takes care of waste. It's usually a topic authors skip...

Though waste facilities and such are very important for actual warfare.

[median sundial]

ok thanks.

[crisp heath]

they shit and piss yes

that's why their armor has waste processing systems

[coarse mirage]

everybody poops

Especially the Death Guard

[median sundial]

Wow, such fascinating details. Next time one odd lore questions: Can Noise Marines get STDs, and what kind come from which races?

[coarse mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/whatever-really-unimpressed-meh-blank-gif-13675154

[median sundial]

:]

[vast frigate]

You will face

the gun

[storm jungle]

no

[vast frigate]

Are you ready to face your judgement @median sundial ?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/182905884400156672/810194753815576626/maxresdefault.png

[atomic pelican]

You've yee'd your last haw

[vast frigate]

thats a flare gun btw, for anyone wondering WTF it is

[barren tapir]

That reminded me of the revolver rifles too

[vast frigate]

Revolver rifles are the shit

[gaunt vector]

looks like a steampunk bolter

[vast frigate]

what

How

[atomic pelican]

It does kinda have that brassy color

[barren tapir]

Probably because it is a dumb weapon, or a crazy one...

[gaunt vector]

the first thing I imagined was an excessively victorian inquisitor in the bowels of an underhive releasing a very polite slur at some gangers and then sending them to the Emperor's recently deleted folder with that.

that is why I thought "steampunk boltgun"

[final seal]

weld to a metal pole

gunhamma

[primal tide]

Gunlance gang

[celest dome]

There are Cane Bolter

[final seal]

these canes are made for walking,hiking and sometimes killing the occasional cretin that crossed path

[rancid verge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/lm2gmt/excerpta_thousand_sons_the_moment_where_magnus/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Poor/Damn you, Big Red Cyclops!

[open marsh]

@rotund siren Wanna see what was posted?

[rotund siren]

when? what? where?

[open marsh]

About the Mechanicus and Machine Spirits

[rotund siren]

what?

[open marsh]

in the other server, we were discussing what machine spirits are / arent. And the divide between Mechanicus beliefs and their actual understanding of tech

And one of the people in the talk helped write the Rogue Trader RPG books

[final spruce]

I mean the Mechanicus are competent folks

It's just that maintenance is viewed and done as a religious ritual

[open marsh]

And yet there is part of the divide

[final spruce]

People need to stop dissiing them

[open marsh]

How much of the maintenance is just rote ritual vs actual understanding of how the machine operates

When a tech-priest replaces a fuse, does he know why the fuse needs to be replaced, or does he just replace the fuse because the sacred texts says to replace the fuse every so often

[final spruce]

Could be both

We even live that today with our level of technological understanding

[open marsh]

A fun thing is brought up in the House of Artiface book

The Van Saars are recent descendants of DAoT colonists (warp time fuckery was involved and a DAoT ship crashed on Necromunda)

[final spruce]

For forgotten technology it seems mroe than fair that they just do'nt understand it 100% and just follow the ancient rituals

[open marsh]

They have a true understanding of technology

And they find the Mechanicus laughable

Tho they play along in public because they know the Mechanicus is alot bigger than they are and would wipe them out

grows up knowing they do so in a world of techsavages, 
feigning tolerance of the ignorance around
them, and often playing along with the ritual and
superstition of other Necromundans. While a Hive
City Mercator Lux electroclast might say the Prayer of
Igniting to awaken the lumens of their dome, waving
the sacred motive rod over the energy runes until they
glow with power, a Van Saar knows full well that they’re
just using an omni-tool to flick a power switch.```

[final spruce]

I mean its a very specific case with , honestly not that much people

[open marsh]

A DAoT Ai calls them out too

‘Oh spare me your feeble rituals, they are ineffectual, being based upon erroneous assumptions as to the nature of machines. We have no souls, “priest”,’ said the ship. ‘Yet another of your specious beliefs.’```

‘Your ancestors bestrode the universe, and what are you? A witch doctor, mumbling cantrips and casting scented oils at mighty works you have no conception of. You are an ignoramus, a nothing. You are no longer worthy of the name “man”. You look at the science and artistry of your forebears, and you fear it as primitives fear the night. I was there when mankind stood upon the brink of transcendence! I returned to find it sunk into senility. You disgust me.’

(these two excerpts from Death of Integrity)

Like if machines actually needed prayers and rituals to work, the Tau's tech simply wouldnt work

[odd sparrow]

it's just machine animism

which is a really cool concept tbh. I LOVE the whole aesthetic of there being lil shrines to the machine spirit of a vehicle around their back

i wish more vehicles had it outside of the IG

[open marsh]

Oh I love the asthetic. and the Mechanicus attributing religion and superstition to rational things (to both some benefit as well as detriment) is perfectly 40k

[odd sparrow]

ye, it's one of the more distinct 40k things

the drastic social and rational regression, with what would previously be an organization of scientists now being this cult of mystic tech-druids that attributes the working of a fridge to animistic rituals

[open marsh]

Like flipping on a light switch? not very 40k Imperium

Reciting the prayer of activation and lightly brushing some sacred oil on the light swtch, then flipping it, and believing that the prayer and oils are why the switch worked? very 40k imperium

[odd sparrow]

obvs that whole element of them gets memed up but still

it's a strong aesthetic

[open marsh]

I hate when people just shotgun TTS memes and think its funny

"Hurr Mechanicus love toasters"

"Make Pen Is into Ro Bot"

Half the time I am explaining lore to newer 40k fans, its having to deprogram the memes from them

[odd sparrow]

tbh i'm firmly in the idgaf believe what u want camp

lore puritanism is weird, u better believe the black library authors themselves don't care as much as some ppl do about how cohesive the fluff is

[open marsh]

Im in the No. Tech priests do not have sex with toasters, you unfunny fuck head camp

[barren tapir]

Then we should change that too

[odd sparrow]

the only irritating thing with the 40k memeing is how grating and obnoxious it gets

[barren tapir]

Death of Integrity MVP

[odd sparrow]

tWiN lInKE dFLaSHlIght pls i will crack ur spine

[open marsh]

Thats what Im getting at

New fans come in, see these memes, and take them more literally than they should

[rotund siren]

crack spine like glowstick

[odd sparrow]

precisely.

[open marsh]

Like the other day I had to explain to someone that no, Guilliman and Yvraine are not a romantic couple. Neither are Celestine and Greyfax

[barren tapir]

Wut? O.o

Celestine and greyfax?

[odd sparrow]

gay celestine headcanon

[open marsh]

CeleFax lesbian romantic shipping

[odd sparrow]

Yes.

[barren tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/hopeless-disappointed-ryan-reynolds-facepalm-embarrassed-gif-12757560

[odd sparrow]

Noted

blank is a coward and a weakling

[barren tapir]

You missed the "one that don't care" though

[open marsh]

While fanfic shipping is a tolerable passtime. When people start talking it up like its an actual thing in canon, its a problem

[odd sparrow]

u mean to imply a 40k canon exists

[open marsh]

.....bap

[barren tapir]

It does... It is a wide thing, but it exist

[odd sparrow]

i'll die on this hill fluffboy

[open marsh]

Ill plant the new flag in your corpse

[odd sparrow]

uwu

[open marsh]

Like that british officer who claimed that American colonists would never push him off that hill. Well he was right. He is still there. The rebels killed him and buried him on the hill

[vast frigate]

Respect

Makes me think of the berserker on the stamford bridge

[coarse mirage]

yet in the book where a Black Templar awakens a superweapon, he us unable to fully awaken it because it's pissed he didnt do the correct rights

[barren tapir]

That is a subjective POV though... They think the machine spirit is pissed off when in reality it is just a malfunction

Or to be more precise it didn't put the right password to activate all its functionalities

I cannot wait to get more people from the Age of Tech, like the van saar, or people shitting on the dogmatic mechanicus, like cawl...

Oh, and i wanna know more about adrantis five...

[cerulean wagon]

i mean

machine spirits are semi real

its similair to how the emps faith has caused bullshit

tanks don't drive themselves unless theres something funky goin on

[barren tapir]

AI... Machine spirit is just animism

[odd sparrow]

meh

nocanon.jpeg

:pog:

[barren tapir]

RREEEE

[storm jungle]

question, whats animism?

I just thought machine spirits are AI remnants doing random bullshit instead of being actual spirits

[barren tapir]

I'm not really good at explaining stuff, but it is pretty much when you give divinity to material stuff, like worshipping nature, or thinking that the wind is something divine

[storm jungle]

Oh i get it

considering people can worship the most needless things like rocks it doesnt seem far fetched

[barren tapir]

Animism (from Latin: anima, 'breath, spirit, life')[1][2] is the belief that objects, places, and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence.
First phrase of animism in wikipedia

[storm jungle]

They sure do in 40k

because souls and the waaaaaarp

[barren tapir]

Uhm... That make me think... Demons can possess machines, but is that something they can do because humans think they can do, or they can do that even if humans think they cannot? I lean more on the first one, since the warp is the reflection of the thoughts and emotions made manifest, but that would mean that we could destroy demons simply thinking of them dying, which doesn't happen... Maybe a mix then...🤔 🤔 🤔

[placid plank]

On the topic of Machine Spirits, I personally think the term covers a wide range of things, ranging from a simple malfunction in, say, a tank, to said tank actually being semi-sapient, either due to a sort of AI, Warp bullshit, or a mix of both.
The reason the AdMech do all the prayers and crap is because they can’t tell whether or not a tank is sentient/sapient or just having a malfunction, and they’re just playing it safe on the off chance it is intelligent, and they don’t want to piss it off, need I remind everyone of Rynn’s Might and what it managed to accomplish?

Another good example would be that Imperial Fist Starfort that wanted to shit on the Iron Warriors.

I’m not making this up by the way.

[barren tapir]

That isn't surprising, especially when we have the slaugthersong, or the Speranza, or the castigator pattern titan... They thing is that the religious devolving of the mechanicus isn't they cannot recognize what it what, it is they are gone crazy with religion

[barren tapir]

The phalanx?

[placid plank]

Nope, I’m going to need to find it.

Here we go.

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/haoxha/excerptendeavour_of_will_some_machinespirits_can/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[rancid verge]

This has me wondering now, are the Men of Iron AI or Machine Spirits? I know there is one kicking around on the Blackstone Fortress but I haven't read his story yet.