#40k-lore-chat

1 messages · Page 1839 of 1

cloud kindle
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Angels vermilion are implied to be very close to turning traitor

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Which are a successor chapter and one dante despises

atomic pelican
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omae wa mou

open marsh
ashen zenith
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you can buy those if you want doe

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the whole point of cheap clothes is that people that dont have a lot of money can buy them easily

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but if you want something that is extremely high quality to the point it will last for 50 years you have to pay the premium

rotund siren
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that's not even all that true. Some expensive clothes last longer, but most, especially things like shoes, last a year at most before falling apart

odd sparrow
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I mean, it's also largely how u treat them. A high quality item is always gonna fall apart quickly if you treat it like shit

rotund siren
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now, I don't know enough about clothes to comment more, but I'd doubt if there aren't ways to make more durable clothes for cheap

rotund siren
ashen zenith
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i mean, you can buy clothes that will last you 10 years for like less than 100 bucks

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you just usually end up ruining before that

rotund siren
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neat, so we do have clothes that last a while

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if only that were more common, that'd be neat

odd sparrow
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I never see any reason to buy clothes above like 80-ish USD. Like, so long as it looks okay, feels good, fits and isn't gonna fall apart quickly then yea gimme

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plus i probably have a very loose definition of falling apart

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[vague beckoning motions to my washed out decade+ old shirts with holes in them still in my wardrobe]

rotund siren
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yeah

grand hound
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Just shop goodwill tbh, wash it good and you've got cheap clothes

open marsh
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^

crisp heath
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My boots cost over 100 euro. I treat shoes like if i lived in a trench. But damn it those good leather boots are worth it, they survive any weather, any terrain, and i wear them 99% of the times i go out and they still don't even smell. You can shove your face directly into that boot and it smells beautiful like leather.

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Not one fucked up seam, zipper, eyelet or buckle.

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Leather combat boots are the fucking terminators of shoes.

open marsh
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Ive never paid more than $20 for any piece of clothing I have had in my entire life

crisp heath
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I have a jacket worth up to 1k but i didn't buy it myself

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Thrift, sales, resell, outlets, ebay and you can be sitting around dressed in armani, hugo boss and balenciaga with 5 euro on your account

open marsh
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Basically

crisp heath
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Im willing to pay up to 200 for shoes tho

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Bc i wear fancy boots

distant harness
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I'd pay more for a jacket pretty happily

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or jeans I guess, because good jeans last ages

crisp heath
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I usually thrift for trench coats

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Score a 200€ coat for 4€ lol

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Dress myself worth 600, pay 60, and dine for 6.

grand hound
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Only thing I've paid good money for is boots, never skimp on footwear

open marsh
grand hound
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Good workboots make standing long hours not horrendous

crisp heath
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100€ boots that last 5 to 10 years > 3 pairs of 20€ boots that last at most 2 years each

open marsh
crisp heath
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tax return comes in, you think i invest it responsibly?

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nah mate. i buy clothes.

open marsh
crisp heath
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i did a couple times

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but also, as a student i don't pay my own bills living w/ family

open marsh
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Same until this past year

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But even then, my folks would have strangled me if I spent $100 on a pair of shoes

crisp heath
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my folks will buy 100 euro worth of shoes and wear em five times a year

open marsh
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Hell most of my clothes Ive had since high school >_>

crisp heath
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i still have most clothes i had in high school

atomic pelican
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I know we were talking abt forces rendered by autoguns awhile ago, and I found a interesting mention of a use of one creatively

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In the GSC codex, theres a blurb abt a Alphus using a high powered rifle's force to snap the neck of a Inquisi, who's armor it wouldnt be able to pierce usually

open marsh
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Yeahm its an advantage of autoguns over lasguns: impact force

ashen zenith
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is ultramar generally the nicest place in the imperium to live?

atomic pelican
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If ur a noble the best place to livs is probably some paradise world

open marsh
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But even Ultramar is grimdark (or the U.S.) as seen in the newest Calgar comic

ashen zenith
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yea i know paradise world are good but i mean like, a region in general

open marsh
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The House Calgar lives in a giant castle of gold and luxury etc. But the workers of the agriworld live in essentially a favela from Brazil

ashen zenith
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damn bro even in the grimdark future you can get sent to brazil

grand hound
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In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only latin america

open marsh
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Its little wonder people turn to Chaos

thick shadow
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Again, Orkz IZ DA BESTEST

open marsh
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Its something Guilliman is actually trying to change

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Its something he smacked Dante for doing

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Making the mortals of Baal live in squaller, while the Blood Angels lived in luxury (even if their jobs were dangerous AF)

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He needs to go do the same to Calgar

thick shadow
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Big blue roman daddy will came to FIX y'all!

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With his new space elf gf

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Her hair style is bad tho

open marsh
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He isnt dating Yvraine. Im so tired of that meme -_-

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He has actually sworn to kill her

thick shadow
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y can't stop us!

crisp heath
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idk man is it a big difference if you end up in detroit, brazil or warhammer 40k?

atomic pelican
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Commoragh is the detroit of 40k

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Fuckers took my skin

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Cant have shit in Commoragh

crisp heath
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idk man i'd say commorragh is more like

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commorragh is probably like glasgow or sth you can't see the sun ever and the locals have weird eating habits

open marsh
crisp heath
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idk man i havent been

open marsh
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Count yourself lucky

crisp heath
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i don't plan to

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i can go to warsaw if i want to spend money on a trip where i'll probably get robbed

open marsh
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Someone tried to rob me once, but I have a gun, and he was smart enough to know that whatever I had on me wasnt worth his life

crisp heath
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that sucks

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i had my wallet snatched

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didn't have much in it but still

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it was a nice wallet

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had an eagle on it

ashen zenith
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That's why I always put a grenade in my wallet

plucky moth
plush mason
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all the thef would have to do is toss it away

ashen zenith
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The striker lever is set up so it goes off when the wallet is opened, so they would have to be very quick!

plush mason
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ah

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so that works yes

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but then

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how do you open it?

ashen zenith
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I don't, I'm poor

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I just dont like pickpocketers

dull flame
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"The necrotic thing was human, or a close derivative. Extensive tissue damage, rejuvenation scars, and...

The commander looked again in horror.

Somehow, the vile thing was over six thousand years old.

A macabre realisation crept through Bravestorm's mind. This abomination had been trapped its armoured war-coffin long before the Tau's ancestors had first emerged from their caves. What manner of enemy were their fighting on Dal'yth?

'- -KILL ME - - VEXING FOOL - -' spooled the autotrans. '- - KILL ME - - OR I SHALL HUNT YOU UNTIL DEATH - -

Bravestorm triggered his plasma rifle, and the creature met its final oblivion." - Blades of Damocles by Phil Kelly

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When the 'drone' you take out happens to have a Space Marine inside older than your entire civilization

barren tapir
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Ah! The tau have so much to learn about the greater galaxy... I may even shed a tear for them...
Also leather combat boots are amazing, sadly i wasn't lucky to get some... I just tried one pair once, the person who let me try them said there were uncomfortable, but that was a lie!
Ultramar would be a really good place to live in WH40K, of course maccrage would have been the best of the worlds until the tyrannic war and the plague wars...
It all depend on the world in conclusion...
Also isn't the comic saying that 30 years is the average life expectancy in ultramar? Because that is hilariously false

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I didn't read much of the comic, but the few parts i did made me regarding it as an unreliable source of lore

final spruce
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I guess it would be similar to medieval times, where the life expectancy was 30 because a lot of people died at birth, a lot during the first 3 years and then they'd live by 45 if they were on the poor side and around 65 if they were rich

rotund siren
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I remember only a few years ago people were making articles about how the average life expectancy had risen from about 30 to 70

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so not even medieval, since that's only increased so much in the last hundred years or so

crisp heath
# final spruce I guess it would be similar to medieval times, where the life expectancy was 30 ...

low life expectancy numbers are a result of averages and brought down by two major factors: death in infancy (due to sicknesses, malnourishment, possible neglect) and death in childbirth. the average lifespan of a person who survived these things was not significantly lower than the life expectancy you'd have now, and you can find many depictions of people including peasants in their 50s, 60s, even very wizened and older than that. but the average would still be brought down to 30 if you had 9 kids and 4 of them died between childbirth and the age of 12 from the pox, from fever, from a wound infection, from cholera, or from exposure, drowning, fall and break their neck etc

open marsh
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Also work place fatalities

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Because OSHA is not a thing in 40k

slow pike
final spruce
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Thats what I wrote but bastardized

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Why would you need to explain that to me when I already did ?

crisp heath
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to add

final spruce
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Should have messaged that to Blank

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He was the one surprised by the 30 year average

barren tapir
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Oh no, i wasn't surprised, i was stating it was a lie

final spruce
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You mean people in Ultramar have access to public healthcare ?

barren tapir
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Kinda, there is a reason as why it is considered one of the best places to live, and during the crusade freedom of religion was also one of those reasons

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Of course depend a lot on which planet, maccrage was a very advanced planet until recent times

knotty cove
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ultramar probably has public healthcare to varying degrees based on the planet

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it is also the exception, not the rule

barren tapir
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Also may planets have health care, mostly given sisters hospitallers

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It is just that when everything is fine there is no glorious story to tell, nor war or other stuff

final spruce
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You never know with grimderp always lurking in the corner

barren tapir
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Like, take elysia, it is was a very flourishing planet, capable even to have its own navy as SDF IIRC

open marsh
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There was that planet in Eisenhorn where, besides the offworld assassins sent after him, life is pretty normal.

barren tapir
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The most hellish planet type, not counting death worlds, would be hive worlds, but those are few, maybe around 10%, max i would say 20% of all planets...

open marsh
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Like the planet is pretty much peacetime western Europe: the planet

crisp heath
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i found it to be central/alpine more like

open marsh
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yep

crisp heath
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but yea it was explicitly stated to be like a comfortable civilized world

open marsh
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luxury trains, ski resorts, colleges, modern medical care

barren tapir
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I saw some description of that world as old british stuff

crisp heath
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the train

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oh god

open marsh
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speeders that are just regular hover cars instead of some semi-militarized repurposed tank with guns or something

crisp heath
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i would die to ride on that train

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that train was so fucking amazing

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even the planet where they were disguised as mutants was pretty normal

barren tapir
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What it had to be so amazing? Other than a good POV maybe

open marsh
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Or really any sci-fi version of a mid-century luxury trainline from western Europe. Especially ones that went through the swiss alps

crisp heath
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it was basically a train/hotel with modern facilities, a banquet, bedrooms

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huuuuge asf

barren tapir
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Ah, luxury stuff then... Not my cup of tea...

barren tapir
open marsh
# barren tapir Ah, luxury stuff then... Not my cup of tea...

It was just a nice detour to show what the Imperium is like on planets that arent either being attacked by xenos, chaos, etc. Or are some horrible apocolytic living. Or some orwellian nightmare where you are worked to death as a slave-farmer and your corpse left to fertilize the soil for the next yield

crisp heath
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i haven't seen that so no idea

barren tapir
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Regarding Gudrun i found this description of it:
Its culture was not dissimilar to ancient ideas of "Merry Olde England."

crisp heath
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i just imagined travelling through the alps

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and i was like mmmmyes

open marsh
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Was in it Malleus or Hereticus where Eisenhorn rides that train?

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Hereticus wasnt it?

crisp heath
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last one, hereticus, yes

jade cloud
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Hey, what should I read after Horus Rising?

crisp heath
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otherwise he wouldn't be there with the surgeon lady because he would be having an insufferable hardon for a blank that will not sleep with him

open marsh
crisp heath
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i just like riding trains

open marsh
barren tapir
crisp heath
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trains are the most comfortable mode of transport. especially coupe trains

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they are not as hard to board as planes are, much less waiting, no hassle, more leg room

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scenic vistas abound

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they don't rattle as much as buses or cars either

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you can walk up and down the car if you need to, go to the bathroom, if it's a coupe train even better because you'll have a compartment to yourself (if you are lucky) and a little table so you can dine or sketch

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the fancier ones have a free drink for you

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trains are great

open marsh
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Agreed

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I travel via them every chance I get

rancid agate
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the only trains in my state are run-down and full of mostly homeless people

crisp heath
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once i spent 8hrs on a train just to pop out in the middle of nowhere, visit a highly specific wool manufacture, spend less than two hours on the spot and went back on the train

rancid agate
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not sure i've been on any particularly nice trains but ships can be alright

crisp heath
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landlocked country, it's been like 10 years since i've been on a bona fide ship

rancid agate
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honestly any mode of transportation is better than plane; usually a couple times a year i'll road trip 9 or so hours rather than waste time and money on a train

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at least those can be fun with a group

crisp heath
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uh

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bus

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hell on wheels

rancid agate
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oh, true

crisp heath
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it has all the discomfort of a plane with its lack of leg room, but also you might get pickpocketed and there might be rowdy drunks yelling and kids playing loud trashy music on speakers

open marsh
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Im hoping this pandemic absolutely crushes the airway travel system

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Reject air travel, return to train

atomic pelican
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Revamps might be a understatement. It pretty much doesnt exist in most of the country

crisp heath
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trains here are... okay. mostly. the private trains are very comfortable, the public ones have some antiquated cars from the 80s and 70s and some issues... like breaking up on the tracks or spontaneous combustion

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that happened. at least two or three times.

open marsh
primal tide
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The problem is that any train revitalization in the US would have to be backed by freight companies to be at all possible because of the cost, and they're happy enough to just rely on trucks destroying our roads instead

rancid agate
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fortunately i only ever use trains for short distances, at least our interstate highways are pretty good

open marsh
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I took note that the cabin still had a radio/cassette player in the cabin. Non-functional.

atomic pelican
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Rip

crisp heath
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i enjoyed the private international trains going across czech republic

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my only issue was that halfway through a dude that smelled like a whole ass blunt sat down next to me

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and i had to smell his dank ass for the next hour

open marsh
crisp heath
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isnt the us kinda big on what's probably the two most inefficient modes of travel, car and plane?

open marsh
barren tapir
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I heard that night trains are returning in europe

atomic pelican
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Yeah its moreso car culture in the US is big

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Its what killed rail to begin with

plucky moth
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same deal in australia tbh

atomic pelican
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That and a concentrated effort from both car and gas industries

crisp heath
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cars suck

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fuck cars

knotty cove
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that would hurt

crisp heath
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i want a tank and a horse drawn carriage

open marsh
plucky moth
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I like driving, admittedly

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though the train is amazing for city travel

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fuck city driving

crisp heath
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european cities were not designed so

plucky moth
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god awful

crisp heath
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parking spaces don't exist

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they just cropped up, one house on top of each other

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back in the year of the lord when you at most had a cart

open marsh
crisp heath
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gross

open marsh
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extremely

crisp heath
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cars are for carrying stuff, holidays, and distances that are more than 30 minutes of walking. not for everything, and not for leisure

open marsh
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here, cars are for everything. Always

crisp heath
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alternately cars are also for sleeping in when it rains on the campsite and you don't want to get suuuuper cold in your muddy ass tent

primal tide
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What really killed trains in the US was privatizing of freight and shipping, as freight companies lost interest in playing the long game with rail freight and instead moved into trucking goods around instead

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The money to maintain the lines dried up and impacted commuter rail lines which shared those rails

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It's a lot easier to just throw more trucks at a shipping demand instead of looking into how to route new lines

crisp heath
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idk as much about shipping to judge

primal tide
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In addition as a result of this our pavement lasts a fraction of the time it would, because road wear is related to vehicle weight to the fourth power lol

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So when people complain about potholes, really what they should be saying is 'bring back trains'

open marsh
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fuhgnufn being spot on up in here

primal tide
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choo choo bitches

crisp heath
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i'm all for trains

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i can't drive

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nor afford gas

plucky moth
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I can't read

crisp heath
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gas is expensive here

plucky moth
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but I can drive

crisp heath
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i know incan, it's okay

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just look at what side the arrows point

plucky moth
crisp heath
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and listen to the satnav lady

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you'll find your way out of the outback eventually

plucky moth
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lmao

primal tide
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Just hop on one of those giant birds

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They'll take you anywhere worth travelling to

crisp heath
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i heard they're aggressive

primal tide
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So are drivers hehe

plucky moth
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TRU

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I'm one of 'em

atomic pelican
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Get too close to Incan's war wagon and his boys will throw thundersticks at you

primal tide
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Incan, Road Warrior

open marsh
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@crisp heath


The great, chrome, promethium-fuelled locomotive pulled into Ontre at five, pulling a string of ten double-decked carriages. Porters helped us to manoeuvre Medea aboard.
 Our cabins, on the top deck of car three, a wagon-lit, were first class and spacious. We put Medea in one of them, with Eleena to one side of her and Crezia to the other. Uber and I shared a fourth. There were communicating doors between the suites and everything was finished in polished maple.
 The express hooted its siren and panted out of Ontre, muscularly taking the gradient into the Fonette Pass. The huge silvery beast could reach one hundred and seventy kilometres an hour on flat sections.```
# 
 With the cabin blind down, I might have been at home in a comfortable parlour.
 While daylight remained, I kept the blind up and was afforded panoramic views of the pass, the snowfields, pink and soft in the sunset, the hard-shadowed scarps of rising ice broken at the folds by knuckles of black rock. Once in a while, beige smoke from the engine streamed past the windows and obscured the view.
 On slow turns, it was possible to lean across to the window port itself and see the foreshortened flanks of the cars and train ahead, segmented like a great snake, the chrome and blue-and-white livery catching the last of the sun. Twice, a long, jumping shadow of the train ran along side us across the snows.```
# 
 A string quartet was playing unobtrusively at one end, and the place was filling up. The air was filled with gentle music, clinking silverware and low voices. Discrete poison snoopers hovered like fireflies over each place setting. A uniformed steward showed us to a table by the portside windows.```
#

Shrouded by the bitter blizzards and maintaining no more than sixty kilometres an hour, we journeyed on across the roof of the world. I ventured out into the public areas and even to the salon a few times, and found that diverting entertainments had been laid on: buffet meals, music, card schools, a regicide tournament, screenings of popular hololithic extravaganzas. Uniformed Trans-Continental personnel were out in force, keeping everybody happy and volubly disseminating the notion that being caught in an Atenate icestorm was all part of the romance of the famous rail line.

primal tide
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I like to imagine the engine as an absolute unit of a streamliner

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Especially given the chrome descriptor

rotund siren
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Bullet train? More like Bolt train

open marsh
rotund siren
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wow, fancy

open marsh
primal tide
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😍

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But like, of course, more extra because it's 40k

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So like twice the size or sth lol

rotund siren
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of course

open marsh
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The description of the train makes it seem pretty normal

crisp heath
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yup like that just FUCKHUGE

primal tide
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True, normal to eisenhorn

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Not necessarily normal to us

crisp heath
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it gave me some pretty 19th century vibes

open marsh
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I mean, from a writing/narrative standpoint. Abbnett did not make any size descriptors to notify it is different than trains we have here now

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Agreed Id love the usual 40k super extra

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but its not shown

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😦

primal tide
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There's nothing to indicate it doesn't have the usual 40k extra-ness tho

crisp heath
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it said it's double-decked

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that's quite large for a train

rotund siren
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THICK train

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yeah

primal tide
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True, but not unheard of on our world

crisp heath
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yeah but also not common

primal tide
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I'd just like to imagine it as being extra roomy, given no expense is spared for the luxury aspect

crisp heath
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i've never been on a double-decked train myself

primal tide
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So, taller ceilings and wider spaces than what double deckers we have in our world

rotund siren
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I've never heard of one existing

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yeah

primal tide
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There are modern double deckers

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The mbta commuter rail has them

crisp heath
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i've seen them

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but just passing by

open marsh
primal tide
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Haha

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Maybe it's relying on implied skulls

rotund siren
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It would be odd to not have skulls

primal tide
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Heresy train has no skulls

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Shoot it

open marsh
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When he accesses the train's built in diagnostic system, there isnt even a mention of a servitor brain cannister or even a mechanicus logo on the screen

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😦

primal tide
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Interesting

rotund siren
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are you saying it's Dark Age tech?! HERESY

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TECHNOHERESY

open marsh
# 
 The monitor’s little screen woke up, and flickered with user-friendly graphics and bars of data. I requested clarification of the red warning lights.
 Alert code 88 decimal 508 – a systematic trigger of active brake units, cars seven through ten, forcing main brake arrest.
 Alert code 521 decimal 6911 – irregular breach of door seal, door 34, car eight, lower.```
primal tide
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Honestly I take it as just being light on the descriptions here, and not necessarily that it's anything out of the ordinary for something existing in the imperium

rotund siren
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yeah

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seems kinda rush-y

open marsh
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The train also seems to be completely operated and maintained by the train company's private employees. No tech-priests or enginseers in sight. Its pretty much like a normal train here on earth. All workers are in house employees

rotund siren
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wild

primal tide
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I mean, I'd love abnett to write a 40k murder on the orient express where he can spend chapters describing a beautiful beast of an imperium streamliner with triple decked cars and all kinds of extravagant shit

open marsh
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I mean, a small mention of the usual Imperial extraness would have been all that was needed for our minds to fill in the blanks

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But the way the planet as a whole is described, you'd barely know it was Imperial

primal tide
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Fair

open marsh
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Just seems like western europe around Switzerland

primal tide
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The train could still be fuckhuge tho anyway

crisp heath
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it had a fucking glass ceiling dining hall

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with chandeliers

primal tide
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If it was built from the ground up for pleasure purposes, there might not be any need to confirm to standard, practical rail guages

crisp heath
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also considering the fact that standard rail measurements across civilized worlds might differ

open marsh
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Yeah but that is never mentioned. As a reader, if you tell me its a 10-car double decker train, I know what those look like irl and Im going to apply that image to the train in the story.

If you want it to be hundreds of meters long with the cars having catherial vaulted ceilings and whatnot. you have to tell me that

crisp heath
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idk but i felt the description drove that point home for me

primal tide
crisp heath
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the train felt huge when reading about it

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i pictured it like 5m tall

primal tide
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But hey that's a good point actually

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If there's chandeliers, there's head room for them

crisp heath
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also the cabins

open marsh
crisp heath
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it's mentioned that there was a portside table so i presume there was a stardboard one too and that would mean there's like a restaurant type setup

open marsh
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The arched roof sells it abit as more Imperial churchy style

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Well kinda

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its smoothly rounded off

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But it does make me think more mid-century luxury style that truly imperial

primal tide
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Oh yeah, same

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Just beeger

open marsh
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Yeah but not Imperium stupid-huge

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😦

crisp heath
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i mean imperium is not just gothic

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it has a lot of baroque and opulent neoclassical features

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so for me a stately 19th century style fancy train interior felt right imperial

primal tide
# open marsh Yeah but not Imperium stupid-huge

Yeah. It's just, if you look at standard dome cars there's not a lot of headroom. So Im imagining something with an extra 4 feet or so per floor, which would probably translate to a wider base too

crisp heath
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but i liked the segment also because it was so... deeply and thoroughly civilian and yet it didn't feel out of place in 40k. like it's good to remember that normal civilized words exist

primal tide
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Not laughably big but still chungus train

open marsh
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40k is supposed to be super-extra

primal tide
open marsh
primal tide
#

Of course they're hand trucking stuff to fill the harvester

#

That's classic 40k right there haha

crisp heath
#

if everything is super extra nothing feels super extra

#

you need to have the normal...ish and then the absolutely fucking ridiculous

open marsh
#

Except in 40k, pretty much everything is super extra. We have non-40k stuff to compare it too

#

in 40k, the extra is normal

rotund siren
#

that's what the good inquisitor said

crisp heath
#

idk man i think inquisitors still sleep in pyjamas made of flannel and not xenos skins

#

i sure sleep in flannel pyjamas

knotty cove
#

flannel is xenos skin

primal tide
#

Perfect solution

#

Harvest the skin of some flannel aliens

#

Everyones happy

crisp heath
#

flannel woven from xenos hair

#

actually idk what the felt of my hat is made from...

primal tide
#

"what is this machine?"
"Well we don't know much about it, only that it screams frequently and occasionally pajamas come out of it"

knotty cove
#

also xenos skin

open marsh
primal tide
#

Whole generations are born and die waiting in line for terras dmv

crisp heath
#

well. at night, you can wear regular flannel, from cotton picked by a harvester manned by comfortably employed agriworlders, made in a regular manufacture instead of a hive world factory with 14 hour shifts. during the day when you have to meed the planetary nobles you can put on the ork skin coat, tyranid leather shoes, and gloves made from corsairs.

#

just kidding, i wear overalls made from catachan fauna at night.

plucky moth
atomic pelican
#

Hm you know

#

Maybe the genestealers are the good guys after reading that

crisp heath
#

you're envious of my overalls i know it

plucky moth
#

JeanStealers

thick shadow
#

Wait, these... are reminds of some shitty movie that I saw...

atomic pelican
thick shadow
#

What was the name...

#

Mortal Engine?

#

Yep, it is

crisp heath
thick shadow
#

IDK, I only care the battle

rotund siren
#

you have so many crosses

crisp heath
#

i'm not even wearing all of them

primal tide
#

Imperial facetime lol

rotund siren
#

wow

plucky moth
#

Good luck, I'm behind 7000 crosses

primal tide
#

On an Inquisition-phone

open marsh
open marsh
primal tide
#

Visio-momentum

crisp heath
#

video vox

primal tide
#

Picta-vox

open marsh
#

Vid-Vox

#

ExpressAstropath

rotund siren
#

nameless dark age technology beyond the ken of even the greatest of enginseers

open marsh
#

aka Skype

rotund siren
#

haha

#

that's pretty good

crisp heath
#

skype is blue because it's tzeenchian

open marsh
#

On the DAoT. One thing people forget is that some Imperial technology is actually superior to DAoT

open marsh
crisp heath
#

oh twitter too

primal tide
#

Insta is slaaneshi

open marsh
thick shadow
#

What would Netflix 🤔

crisp heath
#

it's blue, it's a bird, and it's an unparalleled breeding ground of chaos and heresy

primal tide
#

It's all food and babes

plucky moth
#

Twitter is indeed a cesspool of people inventing people to be mad at

open marsh
#

Anyway, less on memes. more on lore

crisp heath
#

and it has a corrupting influence akin to chaos

open marsh
#

Imperial power armour tech is superior to DAoT power armour

primal tide
#

Well, as far as we know

#

It was a dark age after all

#

🤔

open marsh
thick shadow
#

Idk, those blue bird place has a lotta the "arts"

plucky moth
#

Dark age just means leaning towards navy blue instead of pastel blue

primal tide
crisp heath
#

then again not all daot technology is equal

primal tide
open marsh
primal tide
#

Yes but again. We don't know a lot about that time period by nature of it being a dark age. We lack so much information that you can't say whether there was better tech or not

open marsh
#

We can only go on the evidence we have, and the Caliban power armour is the only evidence we have of DAoT power armour tech

primal tide
#

Nah, there's so much missing information that what scraps we have form an incomplete picture

open marsh
#

Oh and those suits used by the Auritian Technocracy. But those were still mentioned as being lesser shadows of Astartes Power armour

thick shadow
open marsh
primal tide
#

I don't, because it was a dark age and we don't know much

open marsh
#

Okay then. So the only examples we have of DAoT power armour is that they are worse than Astartes power armour

thick shadow
#

Only thing I know is the Dark Age of Technology had A LOT SUPERIOR tech

#

Like a level of magic

open marsh
primal tide
#

What we do have is other examples of dark age tech blowing the ass off anything similar that the imperium has. So if you want to form an opinion based on what we have found, that sets the president. there was very likely better power armor tech and we just haven't found it

plush mason
open marsh
#

Valdor mentions that, at the start of the Unification Wars, the Custodes didnt even have power armour. They had to use what they could find.

thick shadow
#

DAoT is just for whenever GW wants easily bring the new stuff(s) for the Imperium of Man

open marsh
#

Its why I found the power armour thing interesting

primal tide
#

I just think it's a strange argument that a period in time where man was making void ships that could create black holes and counteract near misses by shifting spacetime around the target would be unable to make better power armor than what we've seen so far

plush mason
#

and yet afaik the terminator/centurion armors are both from the DAoT

open marsh
#

When it was mentioned that the Caliban power armour was DAoT. I was like "Huh. Must be pretty good stuff! I wonder if they used it to improve Astartes power armour?" only for the book to go on and on about how Astartes power armour is superior in every way to it

thick shadow
#

One of the Mechanichum's ship has a thing from that age. The blackhole cannon or something

open marsh
primal tide
#

Yeah the speranza

crisp heath
#

The best shit may not have been preserved

thick shadow
open marsh
primal tide
plush mason
primal tide
#

It's almost certain there was better stuff and it was never found

plush mason
#

they where iirc the most advanced ships of the DAoT

primal tide
#

Cuz again. Dark age.

thick shadow
#

I thought those are Age of Strife stuff, or before the Great Crusade

primal tide
plush mason
storm jungle
thick shadow
storm jungle
#

Literally just an age for Mcguffins

primal tide
#

Oh yeah narratively for sure

open marsh
#

They were aided in this by the persistence of certain traditions in the making of weapons and armour. Most of the technology our distant ancestors brought with them to Caliban had been forgotten in our isolation, but the knowledge of how to repair and maintain pistols and explosive bolts, swords with motorised blades, and armour that boosted a warrior’s strength and power had been preserved. Granted, they were relatively primitive versions and they lacked the reliability of the more powerful models later brought to Caliban by the Imperials, but they were effective all the same.

primal tide
#

It's just a super tech farm

plush mason
primal tide
#

I never said it wasn't from that time frame, I've read the first DA HH book when the imperium makes contact and is interested in comparing the armor

open marsh
plush mason
#

yeah ofc it sucked

primal tide
#

They barely had time to do anything that wasn't fight beasts anyways haha

thick shadow
open marsh
#

Its just that it was expressly mentioned as being DAoT tech they managed to retain the knowledge of.

plush mason
open marsh
plush mason
#

much like the imperial knight worlds did

open marsh
plush mason
open marsh
thick shadow
#

Hmm, maybe the Mankind in DAoT doesn't needed that much of an armour for an each person to wear?

open marsh
#

Thats what Im thinking

primal tide
#

Not to the fullest

open marsh
plush mason
#

Granted, they were relatively primitive versions

#

i think you are misreading that

open marsh
#

Granted, they were relatively primitive versions and they lacked the reliability of the more powerful models later brought to Caliban by the Imperials, but they were effective all the same.

plush mason
#

the DAoT versions of them where far better than the ones they where using when big e arrived

open marsh
primal tide
#

Repair and maintenance still suffers degredation over time

open marsh
primal tide
#

They only know how to repair and maintain, per your snippet

open marsh
#

Most of the technology our distant ancestors brought with them to Caliban had been forgotten in our isolation, but the knowledge of how to repair and maintain pistols and explosive bolts, swords with motorised blades, and armour that boosted a warrior’s strength and power had been preserved.

primal tide
#

Where does it say they know how to make new stuff? It only says they know how to repair and maintain

open marsh
#

If they cant produce new suits. It is all the more that these are DAoT relics.

plush mason
#

and you can only repair and maintain tech for so long before it starts to degrade

primal tide
#

If they can only repair and maintain, well, anyone who's used something that's been repaired time and time again can tell it's not the same as it was

thick shadow
primal tide
#

My argument was that they wouldn't necessarily be the best that existed throughout the daot

open marsh
#

My argument is that they are the only example of DAoT power armour we have

plush mason
#

seeing as these armors didnt need any cybernetics to use ima say they where not

open marsh
plush mason
#

and where most likely for normal troops

open marsh
#

And the Astartes black carapace needed to interface with their suits wasnt even developed until the late Unification Wars

primal tide
#

It's strange to look at a period renowned for it's crazy tech and say primitive power armor was the best it had to offer in that regard

open marsh
#

Its why I find it interesting. And shows a different direction in technology development

primal tide
#

Literally named because it was filled with super tech

plush mason
#

it was first known as the golden age

primal tide
#

I think you are seeing something here when it's simply a lack of information by nature of it being a time when almost all information has been lost

open marsh
#

I think you are ignoring the evidence that exists

plush mason
open marsh
#

Example #1: power armour for the DAoT

open marsh
#

What other DAoT power armour is there

#

Show me

primal tide
#

Dark. Age.

open marsh
#

Yeah, and the Caliban power armour is Dark Age

#

And its not as good

plush mason
#

and it was shit armor akin to the flak armor of the IGs of today

#

it was for use my regular troops

primal tide
#

Dark age. Lack of information. History lost. Unknown technolgical advancement.

open marsh
open marsh
primal tide
#

Weak compared to what humanity was no doubt capable of

crisp heath
#

Its like saying that the neanderthals didn't cook because you haven't found fosilized meat in their burial sites

plush mason
open marsh
plush mason
#

they where humans bro they would do both for the pride and the hell of it

crisp heath
#

We ain't found shit yet. Conclusions can't be made

open marsh
primal tide
#

Sure, it's over on record file corrupted

open marsh
#

Until then, the only examples we have is that they were worse. Thats the long and short. Everything else is just ignoring this

plush mason
#

i agree all of this is sepculative

primal tide
#

Silly argument honestly

open marsh
#

Unless you count the Zayth Engine Armour. Which are armoured powered exoskeletons from the DAoT

#

But they are worse too

crisp heath
#

The only preserved examples are meh, yes, but the data is too lacking to make a conclusion

plush mason
open marsh
plucky moth
#

Sample Size.

plush mason
#

and we know for a fact that the grestist tech from the dark age are all heresies now so

barren tapir
#

The lore of power armour is a mess, we know that technobarbarians used them to some extent, but it is also stated that it was created by the emperor... There is also the caliban one, which i agree with chopin, now fuhgnufn, that those were low end of the Age of Tech, and were effectively worse than imperial one because those were maintained, and with each generation something may have got lost, and there was no development on them, unlike the imperial ones

crisp heath
#

It's ok to come to no conclusion and say you don't know enough tho

open marsh
#

Let me make an example of what you are doing, but in reverse:

All imperial technology is superior to DAoT. because we havent see what all the Imperium has made

primal tide
#

Honestly the imperium has probably found better power armor from the daot but destroyed it for being tech heresy

#

The reason we don't have any record is because it's been expunged

#

Of course the only examples are worse, they're the only ones the imperium would countenance 🤔

open marsh
#

Yall keep referencing better DAoT power armour....yet you provide no examples. Interesting

plush mason
#

it has stagnated for the past 10k years

barren tapir
#

IIRC the invisibles, from the terra wannabe planet wore power armour that was less bulky and more stealthier than SM ones

open marsh
#

Imperial Tech is all superior

#

(see how annoying that is?)

plush mason
#

yes

open marsh
barren tapir
plush mason
#

i just dont get it how the literal ape men of the modern imperium can have better tech then the humans that made 3 different forms of advanced transhumans

primal tide
#

Plus, the current age is one of definite stagnation, versus the daot which is renowned for it's crazy tech

barren tapir
open marsh
barren tapir
open marsh
plush mason
#

im fairly certen that GW keeps most fo this lore vauge so we end up arguing about it all the time lol

barren tapir
#

Apart that there is not evidence, but only what you want it to be

open marsh
#

In death, several lost their cloaks. Loken saw the Invisibles revealed as bloody corpses. Their armour was silver, ornately composed and machined with a remarkable detail of patterning and symbols. Tall, swathed in mantles of red silk, the Invisibles reminded Loken of the mighty Custodian Guard that warded the Imperial Palace on Terra.

plush mason
#

basicly trolling us with it so they can get a good laugh and keep us talking about it so they can milk us for more money lol

open marsh
plush mason
#

i mean lets not forget that all of the lore of 40k exists as a marketing tool

open marsh
#

kek

plush mason
#

they started it purely to sell the minis and books

open marsh
#

Still good lore tho

plush mason
#

yes

#

but like i said its vaugeness is intentinal

barren tapir
primal tide
#

Some very strange logical jumps in this chat today

plush mason
#

yes

primal tide
#

Mondays, I reckon

plucky moth
#

It’s Tuesday

barren tapir
#

Yup monday

plush mason
#

monday+ no sleep for me

barren tapir
plush mason
plucky moth
#

Keep up nerds

#

yes I am

open marsh
rotund siren
#

time is subjective

plush mason
open marsh
#

"40k exists"

"Well we dont know that! We dont have all the informatioN!"

primal tide
#

Oh my god guys he's still going

plush mason
plucky moth
#

Ehh that’s pushing the argument to absurdity

rotund siren
#

Time in 40k passes at rates that make literally no sense

plush mason
rotund siren
#

satire

barren tapir
plucky moth
#

In any case I think it’s safe to say y’all should ease up a bit

open marsh
primal tide
#

Guys I think he's stuck in a time loop

#

How do we help him

atomic pelican
#

Bloodbowl has the best lore of any GW setting

#

Change my mind

primal tide
#

I can't because it has ork cheerleaders

atomic pelican
#

Correct

primal tide
#

So youre obviously correct

plucky moth
#

so here's my take on it:
we know there's power armours from DAoT that are worse than current
we know other tech from then is better than current
we don't know if there are power armours which are better from back then
we don't know what other tech from back then may have been worse

plush mason
plucky moth
#

problem here is sample size

atomic pelican
#

Exactly

plucky moth
#

we don't know enough to say either way

#

imo

primal tide
#

Oh no guys Incan is stuck in the timeloop too!

atomic pelican
#

They should make a 40k Bloodbowl

#

Or just mix the two

primal tide
#

Maybe we should leave him in there

plush mason
plucky moth
#

like Imperial power armour could very well be better

open marsh
plucky moth
#

we have evidence that it CAN be

#

at least on a certain scale

#

but not as a forgone conclusion

primal tide
atomic pelican
#

Very possible

plush mason
#

its just like real world history

primal tide
#

And everyone who comes across it is just like nah I ain't fucking with that

plucky moth
#

whereas DAoT stands to reason that it's very possible for insane power armours beyond anything the imperium has

#

so it's like ehhh

#

obscure lore, best not to get too hyper about it

plush mason
#

most of real world history is speculation and guesswork

open marsh
atomic pelican
#

I was reading the GSC codex and it mentions a world that basically mad max but with GS' hunting down the last non-GS' on dirt bikes and dune buggies

barren tapir
#

I am fine simply agreeing to disagree until further evidence is found

plucky moth
#

oh don't get me wrong I love obscure shit

#

like trying to figure out phsyics of lasguns and other bullshit

storm jungle
plush mason
#

true

storm jungle
plucky moth
#

it's just there's no point in y'all getting upset with eachother over it

primal tide
storm jungle
#

^

#

I came back like 30 minutes later and theres still a relic argument going on

final spruce
#

hicks ?

storm jungle
final spruce
#

What does that mean ?

storm jungle
atomic pelican
storm jungle
#

Genebillies

#

Hillgenes

#

Genehillbills

plush mason
primal tide
#

Go kart gang!

storm jungle
open marsh
#

Im going to look into more obscure lore and see for other examples or mentions of DAoT power armour besides the Caliban Power Armour and the Zayth Engine Armour.

plush mason
final spruce
#

Idk to me GSC are just scum to be exterminated

atomic pelican
#

This mans got fail regular human genes

#

Smh

plush mason
#

hey leave my genestealers alone

atomic pelican
#

Upgrading my cringe human genes with Win nid ones

plush mason
#

exactly

storm jungle
#

you stupid moth

primal tide
plush mason
#

tyranids master race

final spruce
#

Now that's not nice

#

I'm sad now

atomic pelican
#

I will say on the topic of GSC', I think its somewhat poetic that random lower class people, and ones with xeno genes at that, are one of the larger threats to the imperium's cities and such.

It'd be poetic heroism if it werent genestealers

#

DHDH

storm jungle
#

also yeah

#

its a shame on tabletop GSC is so shallow

plush mason
atomic pelican
#

I rlly like their ambush mechanic from a glance tbh

#

It seems Neat

#

Also getting IG stuff is cool

dull flame
final spruce
#

All you need is one single guy being a cultist

atomic pelican
#

Thats true. But GSC got the xeno/aberrant part

final spruce
#

And you could end up with a plague world

atomic pelican
#

Plus GSC's have that whole "bring down the tyrant" aesthetic

plush mason
#

rotten meat is still meat

dull flame
atomic pelican
#

Also Im upset no one ever talks abt the meme that is the clamavus. Literally just a GSC noise marine p much

storm jungle
#

"THIS SILENCE OFFENDS THE HIVEMIND"

plush mason
atomic pelican
#

Yesss

final spruce
#

True, GSC would actually be the best way to do books about Tyranids without using a third person view

atomic pelican
#

Its rlly cool. Like Kelermorphs being DESIGNED to look like cowboy legends

#

To be heroes to the cult

#

And yeeah a GSC perspective novel would be great. Maybe even give em a named character for the table.

dull flame
atomic pelican
#

ALSO ALSO

plush mason
atomic pelican
#

@storm jungle we were meming abt no hair cultists. Apparently 4th genners can have hair!

distant harness
storm jungle
#

👨‍🦲

distant harness
#

like a ship tried to, fucking died and the fleet nuked that ship and then left?

atomic pelican
distant harness
#

I feel like at some point it is no longer meat

plush mason
#

plus they cnat be reborn at a whim like purestrain nids iirc so a GSC named character sadly just cant happen

atomic pelican
#

Theres also a example of nids not eating the cultists

plush mason
dull flame
#

Tyranids avoid Tomb Worlds and Daemon Worlds if they can. Also GSC characters could be named. Just have them escaping offworld to spread the cult on a new planet

atomic pelican
#

Because of the magus doing some weird psyker stuff

primal tide
plush mason
#

yeah

primal tide
#

Leaving the planet before the fleet arrives

plush mason
#

i can see that

dull flame
#

Have a purestrain or two slip aboard a refugee ship with a few cultists.

plush mason
#

thats what they do iirc

final spruce
#

Tyranids CAN eat living metal but they rarely get the opportunity

atomic pelican
#

Theres alot of times cultists dont just get beaned on one planet, and move on to spread the cult across systems/etc

plush mason
atomic pelican
#

There could be a char like that

final spruce
#

Because necron bodies are tped away back into the tomb when they are too fucked up

plush mason
final spruce
#

Combine that with Necrons denying biomass and the nids clearly don't wanna mess with em

dull flame
#

They'd lose more biomass than gain fighting necrons. Same with Daemons.

final spruce
#

Even worse with daemons

#

Since there is NO biomass

#

Or the only one is tainted

#

That's why the Tyranids specialized in daemon hunting rely on their shooting I believe

#

Kronos ?

barren tapir
#

I still chuckle when thinking that a khorne warband, after hearing of the tyranids war with the orks, did go exactly between the two to kill everything they saw

plush mason
#

still IF GW ever want to kill off 40k lore the nids are the best way to do it

final spruce
#

You mean the Squat treatment ?

atomic pelican
barren tapir
dull flame
#

Hue. The Techno Union treaty stands strong I see

final spruce
#

So my memory wasn't bad

dull flame
#

Wat Tambor intensifies.

final spruce
#

Thank you for the confirm Blank

barren tapir
#

I cover your back Commissar Moth

final spruce
#

I only need to find you a Melta gun and we could do Discount Cain & Jurgen

dull flame
plush mason
#

lol walmart brand cain and jurgen

final spruce
#

I mean its a hard to top combo

open marsh
kind dove
#

Is Jurgen stank > Nurgle stank?

open marsh
#

No

#

Jurgen doesnt make you puke your own internal organs up if you are downwind of him

kind dove
#

I figured the valhallans could bottle his essence and send it down range in their earth shaker rounds hahaha

#

“Eau de Jurgen”

open marsh
#

Found an excerpt I was looking for earlier. Of Valdor commenting on the DAoT power armour used by the techno-barbarians

# 
not worn this gold. They had made do with what could be provided by the
fledgling state they had been created to protect, and their weapons and
protection had been almost as crude as those they had fought against.
Slowly, slowly, the artifice had increased. Techwrights and artisans were
brought to the Sigillite’s orbit and pressed into more strenuous service
than they had known before. Old skills were recovered, new techniques
devised. The new ceramic compounds used in protective war-plate were
the greatest leap forward – stronger and more heat-resistant than their
metallic counterparts, and capable of being tooled with incredible
precision. Motive power could be coupled effectively to the machined
units, giving the wearer precise control over the level of power assistance.
Many warlords on Terra employed versions of so-called ‘power armour’,
but none of them had access to anything like this.```
#

Also side note. Seems that the Thunder Warriors were physically stronger than Custodes.

#

Ushotan was a head shorter than Valdor, though built more heavily

primal tide
#

It's all the beer

open marsh
#

Also this:

‘Yes, of course, only if you resist,’ echoed Ushotan, sardonically```
#

Kandawire: "Only if you resist"

Ushotan: "oNlY iF yOu ReSiSt"

final spruce
#

Welp they still got murdered by said custodes

#

Backstabbed I mean

thick shadow
#

Ogryn Thunder Warriors, when?

final spruce
#

Charonite Ogryns

open marsh
thick shadow
#

Imagine how wide those ogryns could be...

storm jungle
#

@thick shadow

thick shadow
#

The Orks would believe them as a Gork and Mork

plush mason
#

darth ogryn the wide

thick shadow
#

WIDER, WIDER!!

#

Broader too

distant harness
thick shadow
#

At least they are stronger than Astartes. Not sure compared to Primaris.

primal tide
#

Like I said, it's all the beer the TW drink

open marsh
#

Problem with Thunder Warriors tho is that their enhancements were abolsutely unstable.

plush mason
#

plus horrible cancers and mental problems iirc

distant harness
#

Would be cool to see, I know some custodes lore is a bit weird at points with the semi-retcon they got when they became an actual faction

#

Just dunno how good a metric size is, considering we see custodes match up against greater daemons and not get knocked flying

thick shadow
#

Cawl will fix it!

distant harness
#

or one who gets half his head blown off and keeps fighting

#

they kind of function on pure 40k logic sometimes

thick shadow
#

Behold! Primaris Thunder Warrior Astartes!

plush mason
open marsh
distant harness
#

Ya, custodes characters not really existing in the same time period as prime TW ones is an issue that way

#

main dude we'd have is valdor, who is just not a fair contest for basically anyone

open marsh
#

Yeah he is a cut above even Custodes

#

He was the original Custodes and the rest are more like mass produced versions of him

distant harness
#

dude borders on primarch level, outside some of the more bs things they pull off

thick shadow
#

Custodian Primarch

final spruce
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I mean you wouldn't be wrong

open marsh
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In some ways, Valdor was noted as matching the Primarchs (tho in not all ways). Its why I point out that he is a type of "prototype" Primarch himself

final spruce
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I feel like Valdor would hold his own against the not so combat oriented primarchs

distant harness
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Think it's a pretty safe bet he would in a straight up melee fight yeah, or in commanding a military

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we pretty much have hard proof he's smarter than Russ at the very least

thick shadow
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Primaris Custodian Thunder Warrior Astartes Ogryn Primarch

final spruce
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You say that like its something hard to achieve

open marsh
thick shadow
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That would replace even the Emperor

distant harness
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Hey Russ isn't the dumbest primarch at least, not while curze and pert are out there

primal tide
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Don't you diss my angsty boy

open marsh
distant harness
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"I deliberately made the worst choices possible and now my life sucks, how could this be happening to me"

primal tide
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Leave pert out of it

thick shadow
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A human (was) that big as titan but fast as space elves!

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At this point, it is a Dragonball but Warhammer

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Ridiculous at its finest

open marsh
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Ushotan (Primarch of the 4th Legion of Thunder Warriors) is such a shit talker

# 
one of them down and striding across his lightning-arced corpse. ‘They
fight like they’re constipated. Just like you.’```
plush mason
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i know nothing about the thunder warriors other than they where a failed early version of the space marines

open marsh
# 
Thunder Warrior with a one-two slice of the Apollonian Spear, leaving a
wreckage of organs and metal plate in a smoking heap at his feet. ‘The
Angels of Death.’
...
‘Well,’ said Ushotan, panting hard as he swung his thick blade around. ‘I
don’t like them.’
Valdor found himself admiring that dry-as-bones humour. He had always
admired that about the Thunder Warriors```
open marsh
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Ghota, a degenerating Thunder Warrior, took on 2 Astartes in melee, while dodging close range plasma gun fire from a 3rd, and tanking psychic attacks from a 4th

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Like if you read up on thunder warriors. They are down right terrifying

final spruce
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No wonder Big E got rid of them

open marsh
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He got rid of most of them due to their enhancements being unstable and they were less than controllable

final spruce
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Well yes

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You don't want powerfull warriors like that going berserk

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Especially with Chaos being a thing

open marsh
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No hypno-indoctrination, chosen for their blood lust, and knowing that their enhancements would eventually kill them made them reckless or outright disobedient

open marsh
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Since there were chaos cults on terra. Big E couldnt risk them getting corrupted too

final spruce
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Didn't the Custodes's resistance to corruption came from their creation process ?

open marsh
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And the Thunder Warriors got a factory produced manufactured (metaphorically of course) version of that

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A Thousand Son tried to use his powers to attack the mind of a Thunder Warrior, and it was basically like running face first into a wall of barbed wire and broken glass

thick shadow
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Thunder Warrior... Stormcast Eternal

plush mason
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i cant stop smiling when i picture that

open marsh
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Heh

plush mason
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no really that has made my whole day better

open marsh
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Yeah and the Thunder Warrior didn't even seem to be aware the Tson was trying to attack his mind. It's the psykic equalivant of that trope where a badass in an anime just offhand-backhands another character without even looking

barren tapir
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I know that custodes are stronger, maybe even a bit larger than thunder warriors, which were stronger and larger than firstborn marines

thick shadow
barren tapir
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Now, of course custodes aren't all identical, but they were the top of genetic enhancement, and they were superior to thunder warriors in pretty much anything

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I also like the fact that ushotan, a "primarch" of the thunder warriors managed to don't die immediately in a duel with valdor

open marsh
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Well and their speed seems to have been comparible

final spruce
storm jungle
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JESUS CHRIST

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BIG E IS BIG

open marsh
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In Outcast Dead, a regular human seeing a Thunder Warrior in battle simply couldnt keep track of him. To the mortal, the Thunder Warrior (in full power armour, and remember that Thunder Warrior power armour did not have powered leg units), was flash stepping

storm jungle
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oh my god

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not this Matrix Agent shit again

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why do authors do this lol

open marsh
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Thats basically how fast Thunder Warriors move

final spruce
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So kind of like with Marines ?

distant harness
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outcast dead is a myth

barren tapir
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I remember that description being used for a custodes TBF

distant harness
#

it doesn't actually exist

open marsh
# final spruce So kind of like with Marines ?

More so. Even to Astartes, the Thunder Warriors are too fast. With one straight dodging a close range plasma shot from a Emperor's Children who had before then had a perfect marksmanship record

distant harness
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that book never truly happened

storm jungle
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What... did that book do

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im curious now

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👀

distant harness
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It included such incredible lore hot takes as "Astartes bare hands are tougher than power armor"

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got timeline shit wrong I'm fairly sure too

barren tapir
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Wasn't the SM being blurred thing debunked?

storm jungle
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I hope so since its really stupid

barren tapir
open marsh
barren tapir
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Like with a custodes who was sent to get the outcast dead but was maimed and so it wasn't at his prime, when we know that custodes when they feel to be unfit they simply stop being custodes by themself

thick shadow
distant harness
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Ya I thought that was pretty weird too actually, especially when it was presented as a fairly well known place he was guarding

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even within a scene, the gap between custodes skill was just silly

open marsh
#

A bright lance of plasma energy spat from the ruins, but either Ghota had heard Atharva’s shout or some preternatural sense warned him of imminent danger, and he swayed aside from the killing blast.
...
Babu Dhakal moved swifter than any man Kai had ever seen, slipping through the chaos of the fighting as though simply willing himself from one place to the next.

dull flame
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Transhuman dread working overtime

barren tapir
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Babu dhakal, also know as taranis, or the kings slayer IIRC, sure as hell he was indeed no simple man...

dull flame
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"Transhuman dread. Aximand had heard iterators talk of the condition. He’d heard descriptions of it from regular Army officers too. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing: taller and broader than a man could ever be, armoured like a demigod. The singularity of purpose was self-evident. An Adeptus Astartes was designed to fight and kill anything that didn’t annihilate it first. If you saw an Adeptus Astartes, you knew you were in trouble. The appearance alone cowed you with fear.

But to see one move. Apparently that was the real thing. Nothing human-shaped should be so fast, so lithe, so powerful, especially not anything in excess of two metres tall and carrying more armour than four normal men could lift. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing, but the moving fact of one was quite another. The psychologists called it transhuman dread. It froze a man, stuck him to the ground, caused his mind to lock up, made him lose control of bladder and bowel. Something huge and warlike gave pause: something huge and warlike and moving with the speed of a striking snake, that was when you knew that gods moved amongst men, and that there existed a scale of strength and speed beyond anything mortal, and that you were about to die and, if you were really lucking, there might be just enough time to piss yourself first."

barren tapir
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I mean, i too would be amazed if one person i think is human move faster than what i think is human... But that also is because i wasn't expecting it

thick shadow
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Babu, it sounds like babo, which means idiot/stupid in Korean

open marsh
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Also is cutesy slang for baby

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"Awww.. widdle babu"

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Also @plush mason

 The vitrified scarring on this man’s mind was familiar and it took a moment only for Atharva to recall where he had seen such rude psycho-cognitive engineering.
 Within the mind of Kai Zulane.
 He pulled back as he sensed the rampant hostility of the man’s unconscious mental defences, all belligerence and vicious barbs – like an attack dog guarding a threshold. There would be no dominating this man with the Athanaean arts.```
thick shadow
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So, transhuman dread is just being scared, isn't it?

final spruce
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More like terror

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Since your body is in the mode "I cannot process and cannot move"

plush mason
dull flame
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Transhuman Dread is the term for regular humans seeing an Astartes for the first time. Usually in combat.

plush mason
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oh so like tiger terror in ww2

thick shadow
open marsh
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Valdor makes a good comparison of Astartes vs Thunder Warriors

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Its like comparing a wolf to a bear

plush mason
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wolves>bears so

open marsh
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In packs

plush mason
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yes

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1 man is not an army

open marsh
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There was more than 1 Thunder Warrior

plush mason
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thats why imho the space marines could beat a custodius

open marsh
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Its why the Imperial Guard could beat the Astartes

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Sheer weight of numbers

plush mason
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cuz of their better coheasion and tactics

final spruce
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Well it would take a lot of space marines to kill a custodes

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Because even the space marines don't want to fuck with'em

open marsh
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Yep. Same as it would take alot of Space Marines to take down a Thunder Warrior

final spruce
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Both are older and "superior" constructs

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And space marines are better made for being mass-produced I believe

open marsh
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Yeah

final spruce
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Which makes them a better striking force

plush mason
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btw how many living saints are their?

open marsh
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The Custodes flaw is that they cannot be mass produced. Their creation process is too particular and slow

The Thunder Warriors flaws was their lack of controllability and unstable (if extremely powerful) augmentations

plush mason
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itsnt it like 3?

final spruce
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There is also the expensive part Medic

plush mason
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i cant fucking type today

final spruce
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Because you need to equip those Custodes

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So you got Slow x2

open marsh
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atleast as we know them now

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Originally they had the same stuff as the Thunder Warriors

final spruce
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I actually find Custodes more interesting than SM

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Maybe more because of the books they are in

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Like Custodes being able to feel depression, having hobbies etc

open marsh
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The Custodes armour is another point to my earlier discussion on DAoT power armour. Valdor's armour is stated to be better than any power armour used by the techo-barbarians.

# 
not worn this gold. They had made do with what could be provided by the
fledgling state they had been created to protect, and their weapons and
protection had been almost as crude as those they had fought against.
Slowly, slowly, the artifice had increased. Techwrights and artisans were
brought to the Sigillite’s orbit and pressed into more strenuous service
than they had known before. Old skills were recovered, new techniques
devised. The new ceramic compounds used in protective war-plate were
the greatest leap forward – stronger and more heat-resistant than their
metallic counterparts, and capable of being tooled with incredible
precision. Motive power could be coupled effectively to the machined
units, giving the wearer precise control over the level of power assistance.
Many warlords on Terra employed versions of so-called ‘power armour’,
but none of them had access to anything like this```
#

Also, one of my "Top 10 Anime Moments in 40k" (context, Valdor and Ushotan are fighting):

against spear tip – and the kinetic release flattened a dozen fighters in all
directions. Then they were driving savagely into one another, slashing,
parrying, hacking, testing.```
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Also another example of a Thunder Warrior's speed:

exposing blood-laced flesh. He followed up with a jab that would have
taken the primarch’s head off had he not jerked back at the last moment.```
barren tapir
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Like valdor is not a simple custodes ushotan is not a simple thunder warrior, it must have been a true show to witness

open marsh
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Yeah. A fight that would only be eclipsed by the duels between the primarchs

# 
smile.
‘It comes for us all, in the end.’
‘But not for you,’ Ushotan said, hammering back, putting all his strength
into a sudden push that checked the Apollonian Spear for a moment and
held it locked in a snarling mesh of electric overflow. Their faces came
close for the first time – a blank mask of pure gold and a brutish pig-iron
helm-grille.```
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I gotta admit tho. This fight really is anime af

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Also @barren tapir Here is where the Custodes are superior to the Thunder Warriors (not accounting for the difference of quality in their armour):

strength. He could feel abundance flowing through his sinews, fuelling
him with a familiar cold martial perfection.```
...
```Valdor saw the gap then, the weary slip of lactic acid-heavy arms, and
pounced, spinning the spear and lancing it dead-straight. Ushotan tried to
parry, and almost got there, but the strike was just too atom-perfect, and
the blazing spear point crashed on through the primarch’s breast-plate,
shoving him backwards.```
distant harness
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I appreciate that valdor is so chill basically all the time

open marsh
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Its because he is emotionally dead

distant harness
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like that scene where russ has a big go at him about how the custodes aren't really family with the emperor and valdor basically just goes "lol ok retard" and moves on

open marsh
# 
when we were at Maulland Sen, and I said I pitied you, I meant it. I’m not
trying to goad you. I really do pity you.’
Valdor remained motionless for a moment, his hand on the grip of the
knife.
‘I lived, captain-general,’ Ushotan rasped. ‘It was short, and it was
painful, but by the nine hells, I lived. I’d rather have it that way than
yours – no joy, no hate, no fear. Unbreakable without growth, immortal
without passion.’```
...
```‘What is left for you, Constantin?’ Ushotan breathed, blood bubbling up
between his burned lips. ‘What more can He take from you that He hasn’t
already?’
Valdor drew in a long breath, then plunged the knife in, ending the
primarch’s agony. For a moment he did nothing else, his head bowed, the
storm exhausting itself around him and coating the land in a film of pale,
drifting grey.
Then, slowly, he withdrew the blade.
‘Nothing,’ he said, very softly. ‘Nothing at all.’```
barren tapir
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Yup, he say that too to ushotan, he said that the only thing he feel is a sense of duty to the emperor, and that it is the only thing he has

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That is also a difference between thunder warriors and SM, thunder warriors were humans, they weren't psycoindoctrinated, they were just humans that got genetic enhancements, i think that was also what made them hard to control, they weren't tools like the SM, they were still humans after all

open marsh
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Thats exactly what made them hard to control. Ontop of increased recklessness once they realize that their enhancements would eventually kill them

barren tapir
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So, it is not really them being unstable or other stuff, it is that they were just humans, oversized humans, but still with emotions and desire of a semblance of peace, because there is nothing that can motivate you more than making the place a better place for your children

open marsh
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Yeah. And if you were told you were going to die of incurable super cancer. You'd stop giving a shit what some pompous arse who gave you said cancer is telling you

median sundial
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So today I found out that the Tau have a version of Sudoku that uses words instead of numbers, and the goal of the game is to perform proper diplomatic sentences or something. And the hardest difficulty is "Imperial Human".

storm jungle
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LOL

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Gee I wonder why

dull flame
barren tapir
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Did you saw how much attention the guards payed to not slip and fall? I too would be very cautious, especially near a dark angel SM

dull flame
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No embarassing yourself or the regiment in front of the Emperor's Angels of Death

final spruce
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I'm sorry sir I've fallen

primal tide
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"I've fallen in love"

barren tapir
primal tide
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"Brother you must fall in line for the parade"
"NO"

dull flame
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"Alright men. We're being deployed to this battlezone alongside The Death Korps of Krieg and a company of the Emperor's space marines of the Lamenters chapter." "I have a bad feeling about this"

vagrant osprey
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TBH, the Emperor could have avoided literally all the problems he had with the Thunder Warriors by telling them up front that they were going to be the greatest killing machines in history and then die of cancers and organ failure.

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If you were living in the technobarbarian wastes and expected to live to be maybe 30 years old before somebody slaps you on a hook and butchers you for meat alive over the course of days, you'd take living to maybe 50 and being untouchable.

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Promise their families would be safe and he'd have tons of recruits.

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Shit, IIRC the Thunder Warriors weren't even sterilized.

dull flame
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The Emperor could've avoided plenty of problems if he was just straight up with a lotta people

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Thunder Warriors, Primarchs and so on.

crisp heath
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look, if i was a technobarbarian living in the wastelands of terra and a big fucking golden guy offered me the chance to kick absolute ass with the real possibility that my lifespan won't even be shortened by much i would just be like cool bro pump me with those genetic juices i want biceps

storm jungle
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it'd better to lie in the long run, half of them would question why they should even fight if they're gonna die among many other problems

vagrant osprey
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They'd fight because it's human nature.

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People want to make something of their lives. They want a greater meaning.

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But more to the point, the TW mostly turned on Emps because he lied to them about what would happen. The entire time they were fighting they were expecting the better world they were making to be one they'd live in.

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A lot of them didn't turn on him - they hadn't been expecting to live in a better world, so they didn't see it as a betrayal.

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I'm not sure why the truth would be worse in the long run; the TW were engineered to want to fight, so if anything the problem would be people not accepting the offer to join, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have affected much overall.

primal tide
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Some people just want to watch the world burn

last sentinel
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To be fair the emperor was all to aware of the human tendency to make unnecessary war on other humans with no regard for the big picture of survival of the species

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By the time of the thunder warriors he was a logical machine with no empathy due to having to process so much he threw his empathy away

distant harness
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did the emp even really have significant issues with them? they worked for their role, then the custodes slaughtered them and he moved on to other stuff.

storm jungle
plush mason
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order 66ed their asses

storm jungle
open marsh
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Well it was for good reason

last sentinel
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They degraded into violence and had short lifespans

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Not long enough to conquer the galaxy

storm jungle
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Yeee, and their armor wasnt even made for space among other things.

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They were pretty much zerg-rush marines.

last sentinel
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Their armor was fuck ugly too

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Those helms were atrocious

storm jungle
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Looks fine to me

plush mason
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if it didnt have the tasset sure

last sentinel
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Nah I prefer the later closed helms of the astartes and custodes

plush mason
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everything eles is fine

open marsh
open marsh
storm jungle
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You mean Primarchs

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god I hate that Black Library did that title btw

open marsh
#

It makes sense to me. Its just the word for "leader"

storm jungle
#

Ehh its stupid

last sentinel
#

Latin is fun

storm jungle
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same as how there was a Thunder Warrior legion that specialized in Sieges for example

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Does make it too "DO YOU GET THE REFERENCE READERS?"

open marsh
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That makes even more sense, as the Thunder Legions were the prototype for the Astartes legions

storm jungle
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I know

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its just way too on the nose

last sentinel
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Do they have a black library book for the unification wars?

storm jungle
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Kind of?

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Its mentioned in snippets across many books

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For example, lexicanum's sources for the fluff on the Unification Wars:

last sentinel
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Ok cuz im on book 13 of Horus heresy and there hasn’t been much for that

storm jungle
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Naturally these are where its mentioned in paragraphs or like a single page at best as past events.

open marsh
plush mason