TTS said he attacked it after the dark eldar attacked his home world
#40k-lore-chat
plush mason
storm jungle
Yeah the Khan is currently "lost in the webway"
distant harness
Vulkan killed a bunch of DE after they attacked his home, maybe they combined the two?
Khan did fuck off into the webway, but don't think we know much about it past that
storm jungle
Yep we dont
I actually forgot the event of vulkan's disappearance
aside from him leaving a puzzle lol
plush mason
Vulkan killed a bunch of DE after they attacked his home, maybe they combined th...
iirc it said he and the white scars worked with the dark eldar not knowing what they did and shit
to stop a traitor fleet iirc
distant harness
Dude was fighting the beast and they both fell into a massive power generator, vulkan got all waaaghed up and detonated it, which maybe killed him
plush mason
but the dark eldar didnt show up to help and insteed raided the white scar's home world and made off with like have the pop
storm jungle
Not all of the Yasan Sector's scores of worlds had remained loyal, and in the anarchy of rebellion, the insidious Drukhari, the so-called "Dark Eldar," had seized the opportunity to raid and take slaves with wanton abandon. Thousands were cut down, and thousands more enslaved, carried off through the secret passages of the Webway to meet a fate no mortal human can imagine.
Many of those Imperial citizens still loyal to Terra were on the verge of despair.
It was only thanks to the garrison left by Jaghatai that Chogoris and some of its key production and recruitment worlds had fared better than the rest of the sector, but these forces had not been entirely adequate. The Drukhari had been able to seize Chogorian tribespeople as slaves.
Some of the Great Khan's senior officers argued that had the garrison stayed on Chogoris, and not sent detachments to defend some of the worlds of the Yasan Sector, the Chogorians would not have been lost.
Jaghatai waved away these claims, applauding the garrison's warlike and independent spirit. But hatred for those who had taken his people burned in his heart. Replenishing his ranks, the Great Khan took the fight to the enemy, his campaign now one of vengeance.
With the Khagan at its head, the effort to reclaim the Yasan Sector met with early successes. Thanks to the foresight of Chogoris' garrison, the Yasan Campaign's momentum was maintained with a steady supply of munitions, vehicles and fresh warriors.
Many poured from hideaways concealed by eldritch energy, and the Space Marines were beset on all sides. Scores of the Great Khan's sons died horrific, painful deaths. Others were captured, doomed to a worse fate in the arenas of the Dark City of Commorragh. But the Warhawk kept on, determined to reach his quarry.
The Drukhari Archon stood before the portal itself, directing his warriors with flicks of his sword. He was laughing, savouring every ounce of pain being inflicted and suffered across the battlefield. The smile did not leave his face even as he observed the Khagan racing towards him. Without any loss of composure, he simply directed more of his forces in Jaghatai's direction, slowing Jaghatai down and driving him to even greater anger.
The Great Khan could not be halted, however. He pushed onwards, his 1st Brotherhood at his side, cutting down foe after foe with his sword. It is said that with his forces failing, the Archon moved to flee into the Webway portal.
It cannot be known whether or not the xenos desired to close it before Jaghatai Khan raced through with the entirety of his brotherhood. All that can be known is that as soon as the last White Scar crossed the threshold, the shimmering gateway collapsed.
The battle raged on for solar hours after, the remaining White Scars slaughtering without mercy those Drukhari abandoned by their lord, even as they were filled with horror at the apparent loss of their Primarch.
distant harness
TTS kind of plays it loose with canon sometimes
storm jungle
Yeeee, but the gist is basically the same
plush mason
yeah
they get fairly close
tho i like the canon version better cuz i just dont see the khan working with xenos for any reason
storm jungle
I mean does he?
last time we see him in TTS he appears with a bike addorned with dark eldar skulls and trophies
👀
plush mason
yes
open marsh
Don't try and get canon from TTS
plush mason
yes
storm jungle
Alfabusa warns people not to
but hey 40k fandom so not like they're gonna listen
YEET
distant harness
at least it's a step up from "a guy on a forum copied this from another guy on a forum who made it up" I guess
or 1d4chan
storm jungle
and a lot better than the actual plot of canon lol
plush mason
is there a hive fleet titan?
storm jungle
Nope
plush mason
perfect
open marsh
or 1d4chan
1d4chan is useful if you already know the lore, so can filter out the memes.
plush mason
i made a custom paint schem in DOW2 for the nids and i named it titan
storm jungle
i made a custom paint schem in DOW2 for the nids and i named it titan
All the more power to you dude, custom nids are always great
distant harness
Ya I don't have anything against it mostly, just the people who use it as a primary source
Have issues with some articles because they're just shit or misleading without being obviously comedy but that's another point
storm jungle
I mean i never had that with 4chan? But I guess when you dont realise its a meme people really do misunderstand it a lot
open marsh
1d4chan. You mean?
distant harness
there's some okay smaller ones
anything big is shit, but it's just a matter of filtering most of it out
or finding a smaller general within that board that just acts like its own subcommunity
storm jungle
Yeah the anonimity just brings out the most weirdass people, its kind of why i roll my eyes at anyone saying most boards are "safe"
open marsh
A good comparison I like to point out is that, surprisingly, some articles on 1d4chan are more accurate than even the Lexicanum.
storm jungle
Oh god yeah
open marsh
Like the page on the Minotaurs.
open marsh
If you can filter out the memes
plush mason
Like the page on the Minotaurs.
da fuck is a minotuar?
open marsh
da fuck is a minotuar?
Loyalist Successor chapter of the Iron Warriors.
plush mason
please tell me its not some fools in bull head helmets
open marsh
They are more like Space Spartans
crisp heath
Beastmen
storm jungle
please tell me its not some fools in bull head helmets
Basically special marines whos specialty IS to beat other marines
plush mason
ohhhhh
crisp heath
Im alying. Eastmen and they are unit
storm jungle
AKA they're assholes
plush mason
the yellow ones with hoplons and dores
storm jungle
Lets take a look at their beginning text on 4chan
The Minotaurs (also known as the Moomarines) are a Chapter of Space Marines and massive dicks. They were formed in the Cursed Founding as psychopathic berzerkers and were possibly successors to more stab-happy legions, like the Blood Angels (looking at you Sanguine Berzerkers) or World Eaters
open marsh
Basically special marines whos specialty IS to beat other marines
Well their specialization is siege warfare, but they also specialize in being a massive beat stick to bonk other SM chapters who are being stupid
storm jungle
exactly
distant harness
Yeah the anonimity just brings out the most weirdass people, its kind of why i r...
ya anyone who says that shit is just lying to you lol, even the smaller boards are like 90% standard chan garbage
outside the few places that get dedicated protection jannies that make them usable
open marsh
> The Minotaurs (also known as the Moomarines) are a Chapter of Space Marines an...
Idk who wrote that, but it's wrong
plush mason
Moomarines
open marsh
The bronzey Minotaurs arent cursed founding
plush mason
the artwork i saw of them was imperial fist yellow in color
storm jungle
That might be a more older artwork i think?
storm jungle
The bronzey Minotaurs arent cursed founding
Also you sure? Even the wiki says they are
That there existed a Loyalist Space Marine Chapter called the Minotaurs, created during the Cursed 21st Founding of the 36th Millennium, is not widely contested in the Imperial record.
open marsh
Let me get to my computer and I'll explain
plush mason
imperial propaganda
distant harness
I'll check the source lexicanum says I guess
plush mason
they dont like talking about the loyalists that come from traitor legions
open marsh
The summary of the Minotaurs are that there are 2 chapters who share the same name
storm jungle
Is it accidental lol
open marsh
That is unknown. It could have been the result of shitty Imperial record keeping, or it could have been purposeful to obfuscate the origins of the Minotaurs when some nosey Inquisitor got a little too close
open marsh
But these guys are 21st Cursed Founding (M36), Chimeric geneseed. Batshit fucking insane. No planning. No recon. No intel. They would just rage rush the enemy to get into melee and stabby stab stab
distant harness
what colour scheme are the ones you're talking about?
open marsh
These guys have been around since atleast M32. Iron Warrior geneseed. Siege warfare specialists. And serve as the High Lords NOPE button to help deal with situations that look like could spark another Horus Heresy type Astartes civil war
distant harness
there's some contradictory stuff out there I guess then
open marsh
there's some contradictory stuff out there I guess then
Its the results of people not understanding the subtlety of Align Bligh's writing.
Its why he specifically wrote in lore in the Minotaurs Badab War lore showing that there are 2 chapters
distant harness
I dunno if that's subtle as much as just unclear writing tbh
storm jungle
^
distant harness
like it outright says all that stuff about the minotaurs, shows pictures of them and then apparently you're saying it's supposed to be hinting there's two
open marsh
The article goes specifcially into pointing out that the records of the cursed founding minotaurs dont fit the current minotaurs, besides that the current minotaurs are brutal
storm jungle
My best guess is he wrote it that way but GW didnt give a crap lol
Most likely thing
open marsh
and writing in the specializations, culture, and even attitudes of the bronze coloured Minotaurs to match the Iron Warriors
distant harness
It says they're different, but not enough to say when or where the others were founded I don't think?
open marsh
It says they're different, but not enough to say when or where the others were f...
That comes up in the Orphean War book
where it mentions the Minotaurs took part in the Solar Rebellion supression of M32. 4 thousand years prior to the Cursed Founding
distant harness
Ya, writing contradictory things in several different books is just bad writing for the style imo
people don't read them like series
open marsh
Its not contradictory, its just not put into simple language. Bligh wanted people to put on their thinking caps for a sec
plush mason
are the maraders a successer chapter?
distant harness
Not put into simple language + clarified in separate books is just bad for the genre
like I said if you just put in info somewhere, people are just going to run with that info
open marsh
Lore from the Badab War summary:
"The "chimeric" Minotaurs of M36 dont match the appearance or tactics of the Minotaurs we see right now. There maybe 2 chapters with the same name. The ones we see right now look, act, and fight like Iron Warriors"
Lore from the Orphean War:
"Also we found records of them predating the cursed founding. Further hinting that there are 2 chapters with the same name. Since we know 1 was deff founding during the Cursed Founding of M36"
distant harness
The badab war book says the change was seen in the macharian heresy, which is just going to make people think the replacement happened after M38
not that actually there was two chapters that were super different and the change happened in M36, way before it mentions people seeing the difference
open marsh
The badab war book says the change was seen in the macharian heresy, which is ju...
Yep. Hence the inclusion of the mention of M32 in the Orphean War
distant harness
Ya, which is just contradictory lol
open marsh
not that actually there was two chapters that were super different and the chang...
See thats what people who dont read closely would believe. They dont read the wording.
The wording goes on like: There is little doubt of "a" Minotaurs chapter founded in M36, but if this is the same chapter we see or not is not so certain
distant harness
If they existed before M36 but there was a refounding in M36, you'd see the change then
You wouldn't have the originals, then another founding, then only see the change after the originals started showing up again 5k years later
open marsh
If they existed before M36 but there was a refounding in M36, you'd see the chan...
They werent refounded in M36
A 2nd chapter with the same name was founded in M36
Which is something that the Badab War books mentions has happened before
distant harness
That's really just arguing pedantics lol, you know what I mean
open marsh
If they existed before M36 but there was a refounding in M36, you'd see the chan...
The point of this was to show that the insane berzerker red/yellow ones were a seperate chapter. That the bronze ones existed before and after them.
distant harness
I just don't think it really works is all, it just comes across as confused
Like there was an original founding but it was all hidden away, then people think they're from another founding and the inquisition stopped hiding it for reasons, but then no-one noticed the two factions existing differently until 41k for some reason, with both vanishing for a long period in between
plush mason
tbf a lot of 40k lore is like that
plush mason
as iirc there is no true offical canon for the 40k setting
open marsh
You gotta get big brain mode sometimes to get the full story
distant harness
Ya I don't really care that much lol, just thought it was silly and I get why the wiki would be confused when the text is confused too
plush mason
yeah
open marsh
Ya I don't really care that much lol, just thought it was silly and I get why th...
Oh I dont blame you. Even tho I figured out what the story was. I was still so unsure that I went and asked the guy who made them for the game
Even after he publically announced it
storm jungle
The wikis sure as hell dont seem to care lol
might be a good thing to poke them about it perhaps?
open marsh
I tried with the lexicanum. They have a hardon that everything put in the pages must come from GW published books/games/etc.
Author comments and intent are not allowed
-_-
storm jungle
Ah well lol
open marsh
Im like "Yeah sure. Why would the guy who created the thing have any useful information on what they are in the lore?"
-_-
storm jungle
Like i can get that logic on their end but as you say
This is literally the guy that made them lol
open marsh
At the very least have an "authors notes" section
open marsh
Boom
plush mason
kek
open marsh
^^^
storm jungle
I think you should bug them again and say these though
cant really see how they'd counter argument it
plush mason
ngl i hate looking for lore stuff on that site
open marsh
I use it for some things. Like if I wanna know more lore on something, its accurately place lore references help
plush mason
its really hard to navigate the site lol
storm jungle
Lexi?
plush mason
yeah
storm jungle
Me neither tbh
open marsh
Unlike the fandom wiki which just puts all the sources at the end of the page with no indication of what lore came from what book
distant harness
Hey at least the fandom wiki just copies the text directly half the time, so you don't need to look it up yourself :)
open marsh
Fucking hell
I got banned from editing the site because I was pinciting lore references >->
storm jungle
LOL to what you and Giggles just said
its as if its not ran by great people or something
open marsh
Hey at least the fandom wiki just copies the text directly half the time, so you...
I do that on the lexi from time to time if its so obscure or such a minor page that the mods wont notice
You're welcome >w>
plush mason
ima guess my pfpic is a trygon
open marsh
My prized page on the lexi is the lasgun page
plush mason
open marsh
I got tired of wondering what different patterns looked like so I started going through all kinds of IG lore to find all the images of listen patterns I could
open marsh
And then put the images actually in that particular lasgun's subsection on the lasgun page
open marsh
yeh
Ive been wanting to do this with every weapon in 40k
But Im not a rich person who has nothing to do but sit here and do shit like that :<
And shows how derp GW is with the lore sometimes
The M35 M-Galaxy Short Pattern, Mk 4 Lascarbine, and Triplex Pattern Lasgun all look the same
Even tho they are all lascarbine sized (thus should be lascarbined, 2 of them are called "lasguns"
plush mason
this page uses the ships from battlefleet gothic 2 lol
ofc i doubt the TT minis from the og game are that common so
storm jungle
oh yeah i love that lol
BFG2 really went ham with the ship varities so its quite nice
...
plush mason
yes the zerg are the baby version of the tyranids
final spruce
Similar yes
plush mason
tbh someone needs to draw a norn-queen
plush mason
wait that was Cyrus
plush mason
i mean this cyrus is not the cyrus we all know and love from dow2
storm jungle
I mean it is
look its just an alternative timeline
also the running joke in the series is that hes too badass and keeps stealing kills from his deathwatch teammates lol
plush mason
also
the shadow in the warp effects all forms of warp communications and travel
also Cyrus was always a bloodraven
btw i wonder just how rare vet scouts like cyrus are
ofc idk how the scout companies work
open marsh
nothing is stronger than ultramarine plot armor
Tell that to the Ultramarines who got merc'd by necrons the Warhammer Adventures: Attack of the Necron
barren tapir
btw i wonder just how rare vet scouts like cyrus are
IDK but there should be an ultramarine vet scout too
final spruce
Funnily, the Space wolves are full of veteran scouts, since in SW culture, scout isn't the trainee formation
plush mason
yes i was talking about the codex compliant ones
ima imagine all of them have atleast 1
final spruce
Well you need scout sergeants to train the recruits
So I guess codex compliant ones do
Unless now it's the Eliminator's job
plush mason
afaik vets like cyrus are full space marines that chose not to join the tactical company after acending
so ima guess they dont have a manditory thing for it
cuz a full space marine could still train them even in power armor
final spruce
Well its hard to lead a squad made for recon on terrain if yourself you can't do it
plush mason
true
final spruce
That's where the new Primaris armors that can sneak enter
Which would make for a dynamic change in my opinion
plush mason
new?
final spruce
Well I consider Primaris new
plush mason
the alpha legion has had that for 10k years now
final spruce
You mean the traitor legion that's technology is surely forbidden in the 40th millienium ?
plush mason
iirc their armor has holoemiters in it that can make them look like other traitor/loyalist chapters
plush mason
cant get much more sneaky than looking/sounding like a fellow brother
final spruce
Still doesn't allow you to do a scout's job
dull flame
plush mason
i love that one
barren tapir
The only legion that can be silent even with full SM armour is the raven guard, and that is because some of them can become invisible and soundless because of psychic stuff
dull flame
Night Lords can be pretty sneaky. Til they start stringing up flayed corpses everywhere to terrify the local populace
open marsh
The Dark Angels had the Firewing. Which were their own mini-Raven Guard
plush mason
The only legion that can be silent even with full SM armour is the raven guard, ...
you forget the home brew scary marines
open marsh
Homebrew doesn't count
plush mason
fair
open marsh
But the sneeki beekis are:
Raven Guard
Night Lords
Alpha Legion
Dark Angels (Firewing)
The modern Firewing for the Dark Angels are the Consecrators. Tho their new specialization is relic hunting. When they are called on to engage in combat, they still fight like they did in the Horus heresy) great Crusade
median sundial
Theoretically an Ork could order his boys to shoot him with the weakest pistols they have so he can build up a resistance to higher caliber, and since a large group of Orks believed that the same Ork could be virtually invincible to regular weapons and be able to withstand weapons that would obliterate a Space Marine.
dull flame
dull flame
It's funny cause killa kans will turn around and run away cause the grot pilot is still a grot. S'why they're usually released in mobs so they can feel brave
Deff Dreads just charge right in tho
plush mason
is a grot like a snotling?
grand hound
Is there any knight equivalent of something small like a killa can in lore?
grand hound
I know sentinels are close, but I didn't know if any of the knights had anything smaller than a knight
Gotcha
plush mason
the closest you will find is the space marine dreadnaughts
grand hound
Also snotlings are just worse grots
grand hound
I thought snotlings were 40k because Fantasy had gobbos and night goblin equivalents to be bullied by orks
plush mason
no they are in fantasy
dull flame
Snotlings are in both. Grots are goblins from fantasy and Orks are Orcs. 😛
Just with lots of dakka
grand hound
Okay, I'm still at work and couldn't remember for the life of me
plush mason
so a grot and a grethen are the same thing?
dull flame
Yup yup
plush mason
k
grand hound
Fake ork words tripping me up man
plush mason
just call all things gits and call it a day
dull flame
I wonder if GW will ever give us any Unification Wars stories.
I wanna see Thunder Warriors tearing through techno barbarians
plush mason
and then the custodies tearing thru them....
dull flame
🇫
storm jungle
I wonder if GW will ever give us any Unification Wars stories.
GW will make a book of any era as long as it makes money. The Horus Heresy was up in the air before the novels started so you can hold out hope buddy, im sure its gonna happen sooner or later
potent swift
I mean, we got the classic Firstborn Marine and the shiny new Primaris Marines. I suppose the OG proto-marines would be next in the cards.
I mean, we got the classic Firstborn Marine and the shiny new Primaris Marines. I suppose the OG proto-marines would be next in the cards.
dull flame
It'll be the Traitor's answer to primaris.
They'll bring back Thunder Warriors. And jack them up with chaos powers to make them more killy
potent swift
Hmm, Chaos finally making use of the Warp's lack of causality to bring back foes from ages past is actually a pretty sick concept ngl.
dull flame
I know Trazyn has a Fulgrim clone atm. Which is interesting.
barren tapir
Biles can do fulgrim clones at will IIRC
And if i heard right he also managed to get his hand on some primaris, and maybe even some custodes
final spruce
Didn't Bile managed to clone a viable Primarch ?
plush mason
2
horus and fulgrim
the only problem with the horus clone was the fact it had no soul
rotund siren
I know the feeling
plush mason
same
also the horus clone had the misfortue of going up against plot armor abby
who somehow someway broke the mace of domination
or whatever the fuck his mace was called
barren tapir
the only problem with the horus clone was the fact it had no soul
I understand his problem, and on top of that i just want to share with you all that i have been blamed on another server for something that i don't even have a connection too... Feel blank...
open marsh
I wonder if GW will ever give us any Unification Wars stories.
There are a handful. Tho all told through flashbacks
The Last Church
Dreams of Unity
are two that come to mind
thick shadow
I wonder if GW will ever give us any Unification Wars stories.
They might ruining something with So, just a models. A models for that era.
open marsh
Oh and there is Valdor: Birth of the Imperium
odd sparrow
this server tbh
odd sparrow
Id bone
plucky moth
odd sparrow
Though iirc he's a lich priest so like. I don't think he's traditionally undead like settra is? His life is just hilariously elongated via unnatural means
So no bone
Just weird dessicated flesh owo
plucky moth
odd sparrow
Go for the supreme bonepope himself?
plucky moth
I'd go for a ride in that chariot of his tbf
odd sparrow
Settra is ultimate goals
For as much as I wouldn't wanna be in an actual relationship with him
You try to get him to bring the laundry out and he interprets it and trying to make him serve
I will beat you with 12 chariots for this insolence
plucky moth
he'll be the kind of guy to argue with people online at 2am
odd sparrow
Oh absolutely
plucky moth
"babe come to be-"
"I AM THE IMPERISHABLE rattles off 90+ titles"
odd sparrow
Fun fact: you can't even use those titles as a meme on discord
It goes over the character limit
open marsh
Found out more about Astartes chapters serfs
Blood Angels warrior thralls use carapace armour and lasguns
plush mason
so IGs just blood angel style
final spruce
Better equipped than IG
final spruce
Only a few since not even officers gets those
open marsh
Better equipped than IG <:Servoskull:736623579403124857>
Somewhere between regular IG and elite IG. While they have carapace armour like scion and elite IG, they seem to use regular lasguns and shotguns like standard IG
final spruce
Man i regret the time Vets were allowed carapace armor
open marsh
Tho some might use hellguns. There is that Ultramar Auxilia that is seen with a hellgun. Thats thats Ultramarine
Also they arent chapter serfs perse. They are Ultramar's PDF/Guard regiments. Granted, Ultramar is ruled by the Ultramarines. So its a grey area
open marsh
i wonder if many chapter's warrior serfs carapace armour looks like IG carapace armour, or smaller version of Space Marine carapace armour
open marsh
Looked into the Space Wolves warrior serfs, called Kaerls. They use Carapace armour and heavy Skjoldtar autoguns
So far I have:
Blood Angels Blood Thralls:
Carapace Armour, Lasguns
Space Wolves Kaerls:
Carapace armour, skjoldtar autoguns. (blast-armour and translucent face-masks if on a void ship)
Dark Angels Armsmen (void ship warrior-serfs):
Carapace Armour, Shotguns, Shock-Mauls
Dark Angels Armoury guard:
Robes, pistols
Black Templars Warrior-serfs:
Robes, Pistols, Swords
Sergeant Majoris had "gleaming armour and a sword. looking like a mini Helbrecht" (power armour?)
odd sparrow
stop
barren tapir
Heavy Skjoldtar autoguns, known to be more powerful than the autoguns and lasguns of the Imperial Guard.
This is how to get my interest...
open marsh
Yeh
Also during the Horus Heresy, apparenly Dark Angels armsmen used "wide barreled shotcannons"
barren tapir
Weird way to call shotguns but ok, they are elitist members of knighthood orders
storm jungle
Guns-Which-Shot are pretty OP if you ask me
barren tapir
I will always say this: autogun>lasgun
open marsh
Normally, autoguns are boring to me. because....those are just real world guns. Like you can see in our time.
barren tapir
Sure, ammo for lasguns is easier to find, and a power pack may have more ammo, but you don't need ammo when your enemy is dead, or incapacitated
open marsh
Also think most autoguns are weaker than lasguns. Its just the ease of manufacture and maintance that makes them so appealling
barren tapir
I disagree with "most autoguns", but since i understand that many people put in that category lesser firearms it is not necessarily wrong as statement
open marsh
i mean, a las-bolt can easily blow someone's arm off. While autoguns just cant do that much damage unless its a big gun firing hot loaded rounds
open marsh
i wish the tabletop reflected all this, but rules wise. autoguns are just renamed lasguns
atomic pelican
Yee tabletop doesnt rlly reflect lore in like, most ways
barren tapir
i wish the tabletop reflected all this, but rules wise. autoguns are just rename...
That is because for lore autoguns and lasguns are similar in power
What TT doesn't reflect is the logistic, but nothing prohibit you to say that all your guards use autoguns, their stats are the same
open marsh
That is because for lore autoguns and lasguns are similar in power
Ehh. Ive never seen that in lore. Ive only seen mention that autoguns are about on par with modern firearms, while lasguns are more powerful. (with the exception of specialized weapons like the Skjoldtar)
From what Ive seen, its pretty accurately reflected in what they are doing in Darktide. What a lasgun can do in a single shot, requires a burst from the autogun
barren tapir
Modern battle rifle to be precise, they were also used by the imperial army inlarge numbers until the tech for las weapons for more refined, with clear exception like the solar auxilia
open marsh
Still not as powerful as lasguns.
barren tapir
From what Ive seen, its pretty accurately reflected in what they are doing in Da...
Not really a necessity, but it is true that autoguns have a higher rate of fire than las weapons, in fact many games, like DoW show lasguns with an higher RoF than they should have, of course there will always be exception to the general rule with different pattern
open marsh
used to be reflected in the rules with a -1 save modifier compared to the autogun's 0
barren tapir
Still not as powerful as lasguns.
Quite common misconception
barren tapir
Or maybe they are now... I could link you the page of autogun from lex but it seems that you don't like it, i'm working to get only war references
atomic pelican
That lasgun
open marsh
How old is that
2nd edition
open marsh
Or maybe they are now... I could link you the page of autogun from lex but it se...
I know the autogun page from the lex. I WROTE IT
barren tapir
That is now ryza pattern
barren tapir
These are from the only war rulebook
The same is true with dark heresy too
Oh, about the autogun page, i was remembering bad, it is the auto weapons page that say that they are on similar power level with las weapons, and that is why they got removed by the wargear list
As they are identical in game terms to las weapons, auto weapons have been removed from army lists, with the exception of the autocannon and battle cannon.
open marsh
Yeah thats just from the progressively simplified gameplay gameplay changes/balances
As I pointed out, back when the gameplay was more reflective of the narrative, lasguns were more powerful
finite roost
Whoa
open marsh
It was harder to not get wounded by a lasgun due to the shot giving a negative save modifier. So an armour save that may have protected you from an autogun round would more likely fail against a lasgun
open marsh
Reflective of truth now
I mean, Harliquins still look like that. Just in higher detail
finite roost
Yes
knotty cove
ultra realistic
knotty cove
thic
finite roost
I did not, now i do
finite roost
well
storm jungle
finite roost
Some guardsmwn who took this pic has a lot of explaining to his commisar
atomic pelican
Rlly love how "clown elves" probably made alot more sense when 40k was less serious of a series but now they just gotta roll with it
finite roost
Now there are rape elves
storm jungle
LDKSFDKJS NOOOO
open marsh
Rlly love how "clown elves" probably made alot more sense when 40k was less seri...
....I mean they still make sense now, because its 40k. And eldar are wild.
atomic pelican
Ye they do because of writing but the series def was more loose then
storm jungle
Yeeee
like as Aun says it was a silly idea but im surprised how awesome they made it by today
finite roost
....I mean they still make sense now, because its 40k. And eldar are wild.
Yes they are
atomic pelican
Yesss
barren tapir
Yeah thats just from the progressively simplified gameplay gameplay changes/bala...
Just to conclude that discussion
open marsh
It already concluded. We moved on to thicc alien jester booty
storm jungle
fly safe buddy
barren tapir
Remember to say the right prayer when the plane start
open marsh
Just to conclude that discussion
As for your backhanded insult. Lasguns being more powerful than autoguns is the lore. Not conflicting with it.
finite roost
Remember to say the right prayer when the plane start
I WILL CONNECT MY SOULS TO THE MACHINE SPIRIT
but now i actualy go
Bye
barren tapir
Bye
barren tapir
As for your backhanded insult. Lasguns being more powerful than autoguns is the ...
No it is not, but you are free to keep thinking that... I also may keep using your old messages as it is not really my way to conduct discussions, but since those are your words it will be fine
barren tapir
Damn Dilara, how the warp did you manage to have so many emoticon?? It kinda look like you have one for every single occasion
plucky moth
she's hiding behind 7000 servers
open marsh
No it is not, but you are free to keep thinking that... I also may keep using yo...
Feel free to show me lore that says otherwise. Even tho I have already pointed out that certain models, like the Skjoldtar are stated as more powerful than lasguns and standard issue autoguns.
storm jungle
Damn Dilara, how the warp did you manage to have so many emoticon?? It kinda loo...
Yep Incan is right
Pro tip
barren tapir
she's hiding behind 7000 servers
That is the only way...
barren tapir
Well, that is gonna be problematic, i'm not a very social person
knotty cove
No, you're left on occasion.
plucky moth
also tru
knotty cove
Can a Commissar blam a Commissar?
storm jungle
Yep
barren tapir
Yes
storm jungle
Gaunt does it!
barren tapir
But that would create a lot of paper work
knotty cove
What if I blam the Administratum adept giving me the paperwork?
plucky moth
I think you just get blammed too
knotty cove
What if I'm blammier than the other guy though?
storm jungle
LOOK
knotty cove
Surely I can't be blammed then.
storm jungle
JUST DONT LEAVE ANY WITNESSES
knotty cove
I'm not an Eversor.
storm jungle
knotty cove
I am Trazyn the Finite.
open marsh
Excerpt from "Field Dressing a Lasgun Wound"
the beam will puncture through any internal organs and is capable of severing limbs.
Thats closer to the power of a .50 cal rifle
grand hound
Lasguns are like small contact explosives that shred flesh
While in comparison to autocannons, lascannons, etc. they may just be flashlights in terms of efficacy for the normal guardsman it's wild what they can do
open marsh
Yeh
It just sprang from an earlier argument where someone was trying to say that common autoguns are as powerful if not more so than lasguns
grand hound
Ahh, yeah autoguns got phased out
open marsh
Depends. There are certain models of autoguns that indeed are more powerful. Something I mentioned earlier. The Skjoldtar Autoguns used by the Kaerls of Fenris (Space Wolf warrior serfs)
They are mentioned as being more powerful than IG Autoguns and can do more damage than a Lasgun if used properly
grand hound
Well we're also talking having to roll with standard issue across the whole imperium, so specialized firearms would be even more strain on a strained industry
So like cost benefit, even though there's more powerful autogun patterns, lasguns still outweigh them logistically
open marsh
Yeah. Standard Autoguns aren't as powerful, accurate, or easily supplied with ammo (unless your manufacturing capabilities aren't advanced enough)
The power difference is something I pointed out in the Darktide trailer. The Lasguns are doing in single shots what the Autogun is taking bursts to do
barren tapir
Ahh, yeah autoguns got phased out
Yes, the were phased out, but not for being weaker, but for being a logistical nightmare for ammo
mint hill
it' more the fact lasguns are just cheaper to make and maintain as they use battery's to function instead of solid slug
barren tapir
Autoguns were as standard wargear for the imperial army in the beginning
Autoguns, and other solid projectile weapons, are still used by the IG if they manage to get a reliable supply... Examples are the steel legions with their autogun pattern, and since they are fighting an ork infestation on their planet they can get ammo reliably...
open marsh
The Steel Legion use lasguns as standard. Specifically the Voss pattern
mint hill
Auto guns are generally used as 'low tier' thug type weapons as it means they don't have the equipment to maintain the lasgun or get replacement parts easy.
grand hound
I'm pretty sure that lasguns output more energy upon impact than autoguns, like multiple .50 caliber rounds powerful
mint hill
Depends on the type of las really, the autogun/lasgun debate is really they are just as fatal as eachother depending on where you get hit
grand hound
On top of not having to shift multiple hundreds of worlds to manufacture a different firearm
barren tapir
I'm pretty sure that lasguns output more energy upon impact than autoguns, like ...
They are stated as having similar power to lasgun, of course there is also variability in form of patterns
mint hill
you'd likely survive the lasgun just because it'd cauterize the wound if it's not a heart/head/liver baker shot.
grand hound
Actually that's not how getting hit by it would work
barren tapir
Lasgun may cleave limbs, but it is not always happening, also remember that lasguns may change their power on the go, while autoguns cannot
grand hound
The amount of heat would vaporize your veins and boil your blood on impact
It may actually cause whatever it impacted to explode, not sure since high heat energy weapons don't exist in the real world
plucky moth
cauterising doesn't really work that way if we're talking a massive bolt of energy searing your insides
barren tapir
Lasguns indeed create a mini explosion on the surface they hit, and swelling may appear near the wound, but it is not that big of an explosion
Of course a lasgun hit would kill you if you go around unarmoured, like an autogun would do
grand hound
Even if it was barely equivalent to a 20mm it would absolutely tear limbs
Or a .50
On top of it exploding your insides from the heat
barren tapir
0.50 is 12.7 mm
grand hound
Because if you flash boil organs it's not a good time
plucky moth
cauterisation only works if we're talking a burn specifically intended for closing a wound, a lasgun shot is more like just having a fourth degree burn slammed through you
barren tapir
And we know that some autogun use ammo stated as: long 8.25
plucky moth
which is y'know, not good for survival
grand hound
I mean you're effectively carrying a man portable browning
Which is insane from an infantryman's standpoint
barren tapir
cauterisation only works if we're talking a burn specifically intended for closi...
The wound would be cauterized, you would still mess part of your organs tough
plucky moth
yeah but I mean the bleeding being stopped from searing won't increase your survival chances
open marsh
Yeah. Having a cauterized hole in your lung isn't a huge improvement over a bleeding one
plucky moth
since you've taken on a variety of other life threatening damage
barren tapir
Oh, yeah, sure, it wouldn't be blodd los to kill you if a las weapon would go trough your organs
The wound would be really clean tough
plucky moth
like a fourth degree burn is typically gonna involve in loss of whatever part got rekt
if we're talking organs well you're cooked then in more ways than one
open marsh
But the shock of having essentially a .50 cal take out a chunk of your vital organs will put you down quickly
plucky moth
that too
there's the fact you're taking on a fuckload of kinetic energy from the shot too
so yea even if bleeding ain't a concern you're pretty fucked regardless
barren tapir
The kinetic energy transfer is one of the plus of autoguns on lasguns
open marsh
Lasguns dont have kinetic energy. You just feel your blood and flesh exploding due to quickly flash frying
plucky moth
I see
open marsh
The kinetic energy transfer is one of the plus of autoguns on lasguns
This. This is an advantage of an Autogun. Let's stay you shoot someone with a Lasgun. If that beam does not burn through their armour and get to the flesh, it's essentially done nothing. Even if the target is a regular human.
But hit them with a burst from a autogun, and the impact may easily stagger them allowing for follow up shots
barren tapir
The kinetic energy argument is also why i like to see autoguns as better than lasguns, they have more stopping power while having the same killing power
plucky moth
what's the calibre of a standard autogun?
barren tapir
what's the calibre of a standard autogun?
We know that the agrippina pattern is 8.25, i expect mm
open marsh
Not sure that is ever mentioned. Tho a pattern with 8.25 "long" caliber is noted a being "oversized"
open marsh
Welcome to 40k
barren tapir
Autoguns are similar to our battle rifle, so around 7.62
plucky moth
hm so it'd be a little larger than a .308?
grand hound
Lasguns do transfer energy upon impact, though
Because if there wasn't any particulate matter there wouldn't be a standard "hit"
It'd just be like a microwave beam
open marsh
Lasguns do transfer energy upon impact, though
Thermal energy. That causes flesh to explode which emulates a solid impact
barren tapir
hm so it'd be a little larger than a .308?
Yes, although they may have better propellant and different bullet size, as they use caseless ammo
grand hound
They output MJs of force, though
Actually, follow-up question
Does anyone know if they have recoil?
open marsh
They output MJs of force, though
megathule. A fictional term of measurement used to measure the energy output of a lasbeam.
distant harness
Official answer: Dunno
grand hound
They don't have a bolt or any sort of standard powder to cause the rifle to actually rise
Huh
distant harness
Lasweapons work as the author wants them to work
only consistent thing is they don't shoot a projectile
grand hound
Fair
plucky moth
so they just flash burn, essentially
open marsh
They don't have a bolt or any sort of standard powder to cause the rifle to actu...
Yet they are noted as having recoil in multiple sources.
Answer: sci-fi logic
visual pumice
star wars guns shoot a plasma so it gets around the recoil argument
barren tapir
They don't have a bolt or any sort of standard powder to cause the rifle to actu...
True, but someone could also say that the expulsion of the las beam may give a kick back for some reason, i think they shouldn't have any recoil, and i think to have read that, as it was stated that it is a better weapon for recruits that don't need to learn the recoil pattern to put hit on targets
distant harness
They either punch holes, vaporize, burn, explode or just generally heat things as the author wants
Las weapons are just magic
crisp heath
How are squigs bred?
plucky moth
yeah star wars rifles actually output an amount of force with a particle projectile
open marsh
How are squigs bred?
Grown from fungus like all orkoids
open marsh
yeah star wars rifles actually output an amount of force with a particle project...
Tau weapons are just star wars blasters. Being serious
visual pumice
yeah, plasma
open marsh
Smol plasma
atomic pelican
Theyd had called them plasma rifles if it wasnt so close to plasma gun
Considering thats p much what they are
atomic pelican
Crabrave
open marsh
plucky moth
atomic pelican
Its why tau guns own spesh marehn armor
barren tapir
I have come across what appear to be a plasma rifle but imperial, and not even inspired by the tau
grand hound
So wait, what is actually fired out of the battery pack of lasguns?
barren tapir
I am still trying to find more info about that pattern of imperial plasma gun
barren tapir
So wait, what is actually fired out of the battery pack of lasguns?
Energy?
grand hound
Photons or some shit?
barren tapir
Ah, no, only energy, they are batteries
distant harness
Plot power
open marsh
I like the tau now
Didn't realize that much of the Tau's non-mech forces are based on star wars? Why do you think their helmets have a similar outline to Republic helmets. With the swept back to a point look
atomic pelican
They have a more general sci-fi sort of branding. I've heard people say they were based on all things from that to MGS mechs
plucky moth
not something I'd noticed much and just assumed it was generic sci-fi
barren tapir
Star wars guns are just plasma weaponry
visual pumice
yup
barren tapir
So it is similar both to the tau and the imperial
open marsh
Imperial plasma guns are on a whole 'nother level
grand hound
Yeah they're contact explosives, okay
open marsh
If you have ever seen the DOOM movie (yeah shitty doom adaption. good B movie scifi). The BFG in the movie in more comparable to a plasma gun
grand hound
So they would generate some kickback on impact
open marsh
When it comes to the physics of lasguns. Literally the best thing to do is not think too hard about it
plucky moth
well considering the recoil only exists in certain sources...yeah
tbh the concept of recoil is odd if there's no actual force being produced by it
open marsh
Dont think too hard about it. Your mind will just go around in circles
barren tapir
Both plasma gun and las guns shouldn't have any recoil
plucky moth
I guess you could argue it's got something to do with the actual process within the weapon leading to the heat production causing some arbitrary level of recoil dependent on what the author wants 
open marsh
There was some explaination that the recoil was caused by the rapidly expanding/exploding air at the very point of the barrel
Same thing that caused the "crack" of a las shot
when lasers IRL are totally silent
plucky moth
do we know how hot they are?
grand hound
40k really doesn't like to do numbers, Christ
open marsh
Like I keep saying dont think about it
plucky moth
tbf sci-fi doing numbers is a pretty bad idea because you'll instantly run into problems
open marsh
Its like trying to explain the Force with Metaclorians (idk nor care how its spelled)
Just. Dont
noone will be happy
Just accept that lasguns behave like star wars blasters
plucky moth
open marsh
There are some sources I vaguely remember that tried to just say lasweapons dont shoot true lasers, but beams of fictional "las energy"
atomic pelican
Sounds like early edition crackheadedness
open marsh
Hence why you can even see the beam. Since a true laser is invisible until it impacts a solid or reflective surface
open marsh
Sounds like early edition crackheadedness
I mean it better explains it than trying to say they are true lasers
plucky moth
IT'S FICTIONAL SCIENCE
atomic pelican
I assure you the authors don't put that much thought into it
plucky moth
FI-SCI
atomic pelican
AA
open marsh
Easier to suspend your disbelief if the material just says whatever the gun is firing is fictional space sciency magic. Than trying to say its something that exists IRL that doesnt function like it
open marsh
I assure you the authors don't put that much thought into it
That was the point of the hand waved "las energy". the author going "idk how it works. its "kinda" like a laser, but not really. So Im just calling it las energy. Gets the point across."
Its how you have a silencer on a "laser" weapon
plucky moth
grand hound
Lasguns do have a distinctive crack
Which is weird, but I guess if you account for the crack the suppressors make sense
open marsh
They have a distinctive crack (which can be silenced with a special silencer), they have noticeable recoil, and you can see the beam without it being directed at your eye. None of which are consistent with real world lasers. Hence why I go with and accept the "las energy" lore, not them being true lasers.
grand hound
The more I read into 40k the more I realize it's definitely a love-hate with the stupid fluff
It's so stupid but so great
open marsh
yeah its not a hard sci-fi. Its a science fantasy that basically came to be (and continues to be) a bunch of nerds who got together and said "Lets take all the awesome shit around and throw it into 1 setting and see what happens"
grand hound
I'm more of a fan of the human aspects of the lore and how it interacts with the crazy eldritch horrors in the galaxy
Especially stuff like Helsreach
The sciencey bits are just argument bait
open marsh
^
open marsh
A Lasgun is like a basic DBZ energy blast. Generally considered weak sauce. But it just does whatever the writer needs. Generally more than enough unless the author needs to show off that the Lasgun wielder is out of his league
Same with any weapon
Like the Skjoldtar Autoguns in Battle of the Fang. Notesld as being more powerful than lasguns or other Autoguns, when it was used to shoot at some Fenrisian beast, it was described as being like throwing pebbles at it
But then the same beast was easily killed when Bjorn grabbed and crushed it
plucky moth
"power levels are bullshit"
tbf star wars does literally the same thing
they introduce midiclorians and then proceed to just be like "lol idfk how that works"
open marsh
Like in the Lion Primarch novel. A some rebellious PDF shot at him and someone managed to hit him in his unarmored head. But while lasguns have been said to flash fry flesh to the point it exploded.
It only lightly singed his skin. A minor sunburn basically
His power level is too high
plucky moth
📈
open marsh
Warhammer 40k is just british anime
thick shadow
What on earth... guess GW didn't even do a Skaven finger nail amount of research... 
They should never do such a things like "tech" or "science".
crisp heath
yall ever think about how shit it actually is, being a space marine
thick shadow
Only if I can be a feminine muscled super human, yes
finite roost
Thosw are the sisters of battle
crisp heath
like, shit, not only will you invariably die horrifically
you'll do it without even the promise of leave or reprieve
crisp heath
you don't even have retirement ahead of you like the 10% of the IG that survives service
crisp heath
and that's after you're kidnapped, brainwashed, operated on, subjected to years of drills
man
open marsh
yall ever think about how shit it actually is, being a space marine
Less shit than the majority of imperial life, tbh
Rather be a space marine than a Departmento Processum scribum
finite roost
Hmm
open marsh
That shit is depressingly grimdark
finite roost
Imagine being an inqisitorial archivist
open marsh
As a Space marine, id get to die in glorious battle. As a scribum, id probably wind up killing myself to end my torment
crisp heath
you'd say so? they have better equipment than the IG but get used for the most dangerous missions
there's no such thing as glorious battle
atomic pelican
Gonna imagine being a jackal instead and doing a sick wheelie as I run over a guardsman
crisp heath
there's just fucking dying gored by some unholy monstrosity that would make your eyes bleed if it wasn't the 1784th time you've seen it, after you've also seen it gore hundreds of other space marines and regular humans
finite roost
Just join tau, you maybe a part of a mind control regime, but you have better living standards
storm jungle
^
open marsh
^
crisp heath
nah, also sucks
thick shadow
Become an Astartes was my childhood dream, it's such a bright to me.
finite roost
nah, also sucks
All suck
thick shadow
WAS, tho
crisp heath
you're brainwashed, also next to no freedom, and as a human you'll still be a second class citizen
open marsh
also cool guns
Or a good life as a non-combatant. Sure you dont have a choice in your job, but your life will be pretty damn easy
atomic pelican
The irony is that even if u believe that rumor the tau are still toptiero living condition, well except craftworlds but craftworlds dont get mentioned
crisp heath
what if i don't want an easy life
plucky moth
I'll paint myself blue and join the tau
crisp heath
but a life which allows me to fulfill myself
finite roost
The irony is that even if u believe that rumor the tau are still toptiero living...
They don't get good conditions but better this in a forge world
open marsh
The irony is that even if u believe that rumor the tau are still toptiero living...
And the etherals only mind control other tau. From what has been seen, humans arent effected by the etherals. Human worlds join the tau because the tau genuinely improve their lives
crisp heath
not for the 99.9999%
atomic pelican
I could easily fulfill myself by being a GSC. I'd do a sick wheelie and go off a space marines chrome dome
Go flying into the atmosphere
storm jungle
I could easily fulfill myself by being a GSC. I'd do a sick wheelie and go off a...
And get to bald
atomic pelican
Then crash into a wall and die
storm jungle
crisp heath
GSC?
atomic pelican
I'd wear a hat
finite roost
In case of humans it is manipulation not mind control
atomic pelican
Genestealer cultist jackals
plucky moth
MALDING
thick shadow
you're brainwashed, also next to no freedom, and as a human you'll still be a se...
I can be a super human that can allowed to use a lotta toys weapons with cool armour? Of course I would die for the Emperor.
crisp heath
i would rather die than go bald
atomic pelican
Wig
storm jungle
Patrick Stewart lied to me
finite roost
Hmm
thick shadow
A fake cannot follow the comfyness of real
atomic pelican
Listen bro 4th gen+ GS' are basically unrecognizable from humans
finite roost
Only yhe emperor has real hair change my mind
atomic pelican
And you get sick extra genomes
storm jungle
thick shadow
Listen bro 4th gen+ GS' are basically unrecognizable from humans
Still bald tho
atomic pelican
Dam
storm jungle
you are defeated there
atomic pelican
Wig
thick shadow
A fake cannot follow the comfyness of real
🛐
storm jungle
++Captured Genestealer Footage++
crisp heath
only gsc and emperor's children wear wigs
crisp heath
bullshit, all the traitor primarchs except fulgrim and curze were bald
storm jungle
THATS WHY THE HAIRUS HAIRESY STARTED
crisp heath
and most were daemonified
atomic pelican
Bald ppl in everywhere have a inclinatiom to evil
crisp heath
Bald ppl in everywhere have a inclinatiom to evil
except patrick steward, terry crews and samuel l jackson
thick shadow
The color of chacol
rotund siren
Bald hatred is James Bond propaganda
storm jungle
^
thick shadow
Or anything that burnt
crisp heath
Bald hatred is James Bond propaganda
no it's not i'm also anti-english
thick shadow
I wish Salamanders had a hot metal ish hair, or just fire hair
open marsh
I wish Salamanders had a hot metal ish hair, or just fire hair
Doomrider has fire hair
thick shadow
Doomrider has fire hair
open marsh
thick shadow
No, skull like face? 
open marsh
No, skull like face? <a:Wobbling_Pensive:791696746124279859>
Too close to copyright infringement even for 40k
thick shadow
finite roost
Well
thick shadow
This Doomrider looks good to me https://spikeybits.com/2016/11/slaaneshs-doom-rider-rides-again-conversion-corner.html
thick shadow
And during the search https://d.facdn.net/art/silkpaws/1373513171/1373513171.silkpaws_doomrider009.jpg
rotund siren
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
actually that's not that bad, only the eyes are fucky
the rest actually looks like a genuine animal
thick shadow
finite roost
May i ask, why do you use so much emojis?
rotund siren
Fire Bad
finite roost
Why is fire bad?
open marsh
And during the search https://d.facdn.net/art/silkpaws/1373513171/1373513171.sil...
DUDE THATS AWESOME
thick shadow
May i ask, why do you use so much emojis?
There is no such "reason"
finite roost
Fair enough
thick shadow
👍
royal dagger
open marsh
Btw a DA Fallen who became a daemon prince altered his form to look like an anthro form of the Calibanite lions
Marbas
open marsh
Basically
finite roost
Based
open marsh
He is the one who busted into the Rock and freed Luther
atomic pelican
I cant remember who but someone told me a BL writer named a DA hideout after a gay bar
thick shadow
Marbas
atomic pelican
Was it u @storm jungle
thick shadow
storm jungle
And their Primarch is named after a gay poet, Lionel Johnson
Who’s poem “Dark Angels” is about him struggling with his homosexuality and his Catholic faith
open marsh
~~All Dark Angels has a ***"secret"***~~
Thats actually a really good art piece for a visualization of Marbas
storm jungle
iirc
thick shadow
There's a just a furry, and furry but cool af. The example is image of Marbas that I posted.
And like... a half of werewolf art?
I think it's more like depends on the art style.
Just a furry is cartoon
And cool af is... realistic?
And WoW's female Worgen is just failure.
😔
grand hound
If there ever were a chapter aside from Space Wolves or like Carcharodons to go full furry it would be a fallen
grand hound
Oh I was just making a declarative statement
There's already felinids and whatnot as abhumans, so there's real estate for the crowd
open marsh
~~All Dark Angels has a ***"secret"***~~
Where did you find this anyway? It looks like old 4e art
thick shadow
open marsh
Its either god-tier fanart. Or its from some obscure lore piece somewhere
Also Marbas was the only fallen to achieve daemonhood. So, he is pretty badass
vagrant osprey
Fact 1: The Grey Knight project was allegedly started after the events in the book Legion, and after the Alpha Legion stole all the Geneseed R&D data and destroyed the originals.
Fact 2: The Emperor and Malcador were explicitly too busy to work on that kind of project at the time it was allegedly started.
Fact 3: Any plan that involves shoving a moon into the warp to hide it from Chaos would not pass Malcador's laugh test.
Fact 4: The Grey Knights first appeared in M32.
Conclusion: The Grey Knights were created by the Alpha Legion.
open marsh
Know what....I actually could believe that
Since Omegon, the one who stole the data, was the loyalist of the two
plush mason
Malcador's laugh test
median sundial
Perhaps Malcador finds the universe as ridiculous just as we do.
primal tide
You laugh you lose- perpetual difficulty level
crisp heath
isnt there a difference between anthropomorphic creatures
like the sphynx or minotaur
and just flat out furries
hardy apex
Fact 1: The Grey Knight project was allegedly started after the events in the bo...
Hold on, weren’t some Astartes such as Nathaniel Garro and Garviel Loken gathered/informed by agents under the orders of Malcador/Custodes under Malcador’s orders to form a new group called the Knights Errant, which became the precursor to the Grey Knights?
Or was the the precursor to the Inquisition and I’m just getting my facts mixed up?
open marsh
Hold on, weren’t some Astartes such as Nathaniel Garro and Garviel Loken gathere...
Both
hardy apex
ah
vagrant osprey
There's evidence that the Inquisition was intended to be a quasi-legion
open marsh
Eh. The Inquistion was founded by finding a group of people with an inquisitive nature
vagrant osprey
Yes.
Now imagine those people with some Astartes abilities, such as the omniphagea
Or the ability to load hypnotraining onto them.
open marsh
Except none of the original Inquisitiors were Astartes.
open marsh
The Emperor never lost the ability to make more Astartes
vagrant osprey
No, but he DID lose the ability to modify Geneseed
open marsh
The original Inquisitiors were specifically chose from the ranks of mortal men
The recruited Astartes were used to make the Grey Knights
vagrant osprey
It looks like the original plan had been to revise the existing Geneseed in order to fix all sorts of problems it had, and create a bunch of super-detectives.
open marsh
I don't see that
Like
At all
ono
If he wanted a legion of Astartes Inquistors...
He would have had Malcador gather more loyalists Astartes and made them the first Inquisitiors
vagrant osprey
The Astartes were supposed to be unquestioning obedient tools. That's kinda the opposite of what he wanted for his Inquisitors.
crisp heath
the emperor didn't want the astartes to rule over humans with unquestioned authority
vagrant osprey
That too
The Emperor has a history of using uplifting tech to make humans into better tools for the task.
open marsh
the emperor didn't want the astartes to rule over humans with unquestioned autho...
This
vagrant osprey
It'd be keeping with theme for him to make uplifted bloodhounds out of inquisitive people.
Oh, the Inquisition we see is kinda not related to the original plan.
Think less "PURGE THE HERETIC" and more spies.
You know that scene in V for Vendetta where he sneaks into somebody's home while they're asleep, poisons them, then wakes them up to talk while they're dying?
open marsh
I'm talking original Inquisiton. They were spies. It wasn't until later that the religious aspect set in
vagrant osprey
Oh, yes.
vagrant osprey
Anyway, the opening scene from Master of Mankind is that scene, but with a hardened military complex.
That seems like something inside the design parameters of an Inquisition project.
crisp heath
i think sanguinius had the right idea as to what to do with furred... creatures
primal tide
The problem with the pelt of a furry is I'd imagine they're very... crusty
storm jungle
man leopard pelts are cool
his model even has a goofy head of one on his shoulder lol
rotund siren
what's a man leopard?
storm jungle
nooOO
rotund siren
I've done it. I've gotten back at Dilara herself!
rotund siren
darn
crisp heath
The problem with the pelt of a furry is I'd imagine they're very... crusty
well don't wear them when you're fighting in mud
and it depends on fur type
like
some fur will shrug wetness off fine and can be cleaned more easily, some is soft, sheds, and easily becomes damaged
storm jungle
This reminded me of PETA trying to sue 40k for its pelt use lol
rotund siren
thus the best pelts to wear are from creatures native to the area you're fighting in
KILL THE ANIMALS!
TAKE THEIR SKIN!
WEAR IT INTO BATTLE!
primal tide
well don't wear them when you're fighting in mud
I wasn't talking about mud uwu
rotund siren
stfu
primal tide
Tell them that
rotund siren
Please stop
odd sparrow
awful.
storm jungle
HELP ME
crisp heath
if you don't stand in the rain for too long water will roll off it
storm jungle
storm jungle
yikes
rotund siren
What kind of monster do you need to be to skin seals
actually there are a LOT of seals
yeah
so many seals
final spruce
Someone talking about seals ?
storm jungle
I hate it
rotund siren
they're basically endless
crisp heath
and you cant even eat the minks
final spruce
Let's ask the canadians
crisp heath
you can eat a seal after
rotund siren
that's also true
as long as we don't go all colonial America v, Bisons on the seals, it'll be fine
crisp heath
and if the coat eventually gets way fucked up by the time your great-grandkids inherit it, it will just decompose. unlike a parka. which is like 90% plastic and will pollute the earth for 500 more years
rotund siren
Hell, Inuits and other tribes in the Arctic Circle have been sustainably hunting them for ages
absolutely true
fake fur and fake leather suck
crisp heath
the point with furcoats is that you buy them and then you wear them fucking forever
rotund siren
they break fast, but they decay slowly, making them awful
crisp heath
and then your kids wear them
rotund siren
yep
crisp heath
and then their kids wear them
primal tide
Not in this hyper consumer society
rotund siren
;-;
rotund siren
wow, nice
final spruce
The leather shoes inherited from my grandfather yes
rotund siren
ah, if only we returned to making clothes that actually lasted...
or making anything that lasted
at all
primal tide
Leather shoes are emergency rations that you don't have to pack
rotund siren
gross
final spruce
But he is right
primal tide
or making anything that lasted
But if the stuff lasts, how are companies supposed to keep selling in high volumes?
crisp heath
idk how old the seal one is cause it was thrifted but it looks like it's from like the 20s
i don't buy non-leather shoes anymore bc they don't last
final spruce
Just change the sole every 5-10 years and you're good to go
primal tide
I just never stopped wearing converse
crisp heath
ideally i'd like to switch to 80-90% natural materials in my wardrobe entirely
in cold weather i mostly wear woolen trench coats too
but it's hard to get sometimes, and i'm super small so i take what fits me
synthetics last much shorter, look worse and pollute
i see no real reason to use them except for like. warm underwear for skiing and shit
