40k-lore-chat

[mint hill]

It's not that they are 'rare' it's that the imperium is so large

[foggy laurel]

I think we're fighting against Traitor Gaurd yeah

[atomic pelican]

Like the uhh lords

[odd sparrow]

Since DT is going for a more like, normal boots on the ground approach i don't see them including that many astartes

[foggy laurel]

With a ton of poxwalker chaff

[odd sparrow]

yeah that's my prediction

[atomic pelican]

Yeess

[odd sparrow]

and tbh i expect them to not appear at all

[atomic pelican]

Same

Im counting on traitor guard vehicles/daemon stuff

Or just like

Mutations

The moebian 6 designs look rlly cool so far

[mint hill]

Eh, Likely a dreadnaught will be a mini boss like the spawn, or a plauge ogryn

I could see marines being the heavier elite.

not like storm vermin, but like the chaos warriors of nurgle

[foggy laurel]

Is a plague ogryn worse than a Chaos Marine?

[mint hill]

Yeah

[atomic pelican]

CW are lower power level than a Spesh mahren overall

[odd sparrow]

GW sucks with scale, especially as it relates to space marines. If you wanna be serious about it then like, there should be like. There were 18 10,000 sized legions for the great crusade

for an entire imperium of about 1 million planets 18000-ish marines makes them rare

[mint hill]

I mean, How many successor chapters of 1000 are there?

[atomic pelican]

But yee honestly with how power levels are, its whack

[odd sparrow]

whether or not there are more now is v much obscure, GW is always writing in more chapters, but I wouldn't expect them to be more than like 3 loyalist marines per imperial planet lol

[mint hill]

Dark angels and their successor chapters are not limited to 1000 and are vauge as fuck about it all the time, and the inquisitors who check in on it, suddenly dissapear...

[odd sparrow]

chaos marines are probs even rarer

[mint hill]

Nah.

They steal geneseed all the time

[atomic pelican]

"There are as many elves as the plot requires"

[odd sparrow]

lol yeah that

[atomic pelican]

Fhshd

[odd sparrow]

but yeah, I hope we aren't gonna be massacring marines en masse in DT. If they do appear i hope it kinda lends credence to how rare and powerful they're meant to be in the fluff

[atomic pelican]

Yee

[odd sparrow]

i don't want another fire warrior

[mint hill]

I mean, if you have Plasma guns and Melta guns in the game..

[odd sparrow]

BREAKING NEWS: LOCAL FIRE WARRIOR CLEARS ENTIRE SECTOR OF CHAOS INFLUENCE

[atomic pelican]

Shas'la killing lord of change is the only canon I accept for fire warriors power scale

[mint hill]

those -would- massacre the marines

[odd sparrow]

I do kinda wanna see if they'll tackle meltas tbh

given how wildly inconsistent they are in like, actually animated mediums

but yea idk it would be jarring to me if marines were anything like CW in VT

[mint hill]

Melta guns are describes to fire like jet engines.

So a constant increasing jet of heat/flame

[foggy laurel]

So Drakefire

Basically

[mint hill]

No, that'd be a flamer

Melta would be like a tight beam

[atomic pelican]

Southlander! slides across the floor to punch you

[foggy laurel]

Sienna's beam staff

[mint hill]

Yeah

[odd sparrow]

SOUTHRANDERS! AUUUUGHHHH

[mint hill]

Not like in space marine where they used it as a shotgun...

[foggy laurel]

Oh man

[atomic pelican]

CW dialogue is so funny

[odd sparrow]

Or in DoW where it's this weird stream of molten whatever

[foggy laurel]

If we can have the weapon variety at least of Space Marine

I'd be happy

[atomic pelican]

IG/their mortal equals have a pretty diverse armory

From what we have seen we should b good

[odd sparrow]

We already know we're getting uh plasma guns (trailer), power swords, power hammers, lasguns, bolters and autoguns

oh and chainswords

[foggy laurel]

Wonder if they'll make plasma guns work like in SM

[odd sparrow]

oh and the ogryn stuff

So we've already got quite a lot already shown

how do they work in SM?

[mint hill]

they have an overheat machanic like the drakefire pistols

[atomic pelican]

Overheating ur plasma gun as a non SM seems like a bad idea

[odd sparrow]

hm that's not super adherent to the fluff. like, iirc imperial plasma guns are meant to run on chemical fuel + electricity

[mint hill]

It's a bad idea as a SM too as it's an exploding mini star in your hand.

[odd sparrow]

i think i would prefer if they had actual ammo tbh

[mint hill]

It shoots a ball of superheated plasma

[odd sparrow]

For as much as random RNG based explosions aren't good for gameplay-

i'm totally game for an overcharge mechanic

[mint hill]

If it 'overheats' it generally means it's fatal for whoever made it explode.

[odd sparrow]

The poor guardsman character constantly getting shouted at for blowing themselves up

BUT THE EXTRA DAMAGE

IT HITS SO MANY BREAKPOINTS

[mint hill]

All those SM characters with bionic arms and bolt pistols, obviously overcharged their plasma pistols and went 'Never Again."

[atomic pelican]

Cant wait to have a teammate shoot me in the back of the head with a full charged plasma bolt

"RIGHTEOUS SHOT" followed by me ragdolling

[odd sparrow]

OGRYN HUNTING

[mint hill]

I hope there's an "Emperor Bless this Ravaged Body"

[odd sparrow]

tbh i do hope the dialogue can live up to what we have in VT

maybe not necessarily so memey but still. I want banter

T H E S E S T A I R S

[mint hill]

I dunno, an Inquisitor Saltspyre would be pretty sweet.

[atomic pelican]

I have confidence it will. The writing for VT2 never went down with its dlc. So I think they still got the good writing

[odd sparrow]

Yea

[atomic pelican]

Like the Drachenfels plot for the U5 is all cool

[odd sparrow]

plus from what we've seen the VA for the priestess seems great tbh

[mint hill]

"I come from a long line of Heretic hunting scumbags"

[atomic pelican]

Yessss

[odd sparrow]

hold thy ground sinners
aaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[atomic pelican]

Vocal talent goes sooo far in these games

Itll be great

I love the video of Keri's va doing the Quiet Drink recording

[odd sparrow]

Oh god yes

all the drunk dialogue is so good

[atomic pelican]

YEEES

[odd sparrow]

especially keri

lowkey bardin is barely even buzzed

dwarven fortitude

[atomic pelican]

Omg yeah, the Queen lines

[odd sparrow]

Bring QUEEN KERILLIAN her ROYAL ALE

[atomic pelican]

I actually love Saltz and Keri's interactions on that map

[odd sparrow]

we stan

[atomic pelican]

Despite being a memey map it shows some interesting FLUFF

Yesss

[odd sparrow]

there's also the obligatory steam tank and [kruber being a rampant alcoholic in the corner]

[atomic pelican]

YEEAH

[odd sparrow]

to sienna, keri and saltz this is some massive event

[atomic pelican]

Steam whistle noises from saltz

[odd sparrow]

to bardin it's every evening and to kruber it's every morning too

[atomic pelican]

DHDHD

[odd sparrow]

i can't imagine how much fun the saltz VA had with that lol

[vapid sentinel]

i like that those 5 are showing up in other games. Or atleast one game. They are in Total War 2 😄

[crisp heath]

saltz and keri seem like the types who see alcohol only on actual festival celebrations, kruber and bardin haven't lived most of the decade with a 0 ABV and Sienna has probably seen enough parties at some point to be inured to the bad effects

[distant harness]

I feel like adding alcohol to sienna would be a bad idea

lady's already a walking fire risk

[crisp heath]

sienna does flaming shots

[odd sparrow]

tbh how do bright wizards work anyways

are they just immune to regular fire? or like, only insofar as it's a lowkey fire and not the kind of stuff in an incd bomb

her hair is apparently actual flames, not just a weird magical illusion

[plush mason]

only at times

bright wizards draw on the wind of ashqy

but non magical fire burns them like it burns all mortals

iirc saltspire was transporting sienna to be burned at the stack when the skaven invaded

such is the fate of those wizards that fall out of favor with the collages of magic

[prisma lark]

no, he was transporting her so she'd get a fair trial, he actually saved her from the stake I think

[plush mason]

oh

he is one of the level headed ones then

thats very rare among the templars

[odd sparrow]

iirc it is heavily insinuated that he was using the whole escorting sienna thing just to find an excuse to investigate all the ratmen rumours around ubersreik

he doesn't actually care about her trial

[plush mason]

@odd sparrow the winds of magic come from chaos and ones personality effects and reflects their connection to the wind they draw from

amythyst wizards (sanctioned necromancers) tend to be very dower and grim

[odd sparrow]

deathbois aren't actually necromancers, necromancy is kinda its own thing

they're just superficially similar

similar enough that all the non wizards get spooked by them

[plush mason]

true

[median sundial]

So uh, I saw a video in my recommended saying that the Imperium occasionally steals Tau Tech. Is this true?

[plush mason]

the tech priest steal a lot of tech

namely the xenorite sect

they believe that the only way to save humanity is to use the works of the alien aginst them

so ofc they are largely seen as hereteks by the rest of the cult mechanicus lol

[distant harness]

the imperium is pretty huge

pretty much anything you can think of, some planet probably does it at least sometimes

or some inquisitor has deemed it a good call for whatever reason

[plush mason]

does the imperium own like half the galaxy?

[distant harness]

they own exactly as much is convenient for the author at the time

but it's always a lot

[median sundial]

Honestly I thought the Imperium was too stubborn and/or racist to even think of doing it.

[plush mason]

most are

[distant harness]

most planets don't really get that much attention at all as long as they pay tithes and aren't doing shit dumb enough to attract inquisitors

[plush mason]

the xenorites are a minority faction

[distant harness]

the biggest horror theme in the setting is bureaucracy, no way they could police every random planet or merc group

[plush mason]

amen

also

i really hope the state of imperial law isnt as bad as the wiki said it is

[distant harness]

which wiki are you using?

[plush mason]

the 40k wiki is what im talking about

the arbitus page said court cases take centuries to compleat

[distant harness]

ya 40k wiki is not the best on a lot of stuff, it's a weird mix of unsourced shit, misinterpretations and the occasional good article

lexicanum is better overall imo

[odd sparrow]

yea lexicanum has big wikipedia energy

like. v dry, v dull, but it cites everything

[distant harness]

the big cases arbites judges end up dealing with are usually way beyond what the normal legal system on a planet would handle

some particularly complex thing with like 15000 years of case law to look over taking centuries to play out isn't that unreasonable lol

[plush mason]

its more the fact that laws that old are still inplace and enforced

that for me is one of the plotholes in 40k lore

[distant harness]

Those laws are generally just big empire wide things

and no-one wants to change them because they think it all comes right from the emperor himself, who they also worship

most law is just standard planetary shit, with varying systems

[plush mason]

like i said plothole

humanity has never shown that level of devotion to the divine laws

[odd sparrow]

something being out of character for large groups of ppl isn't a plot hole

[plush mason]

once one becomes inconveniate we ether chage it over time or compleatly ignore it

[odd sparrow]

That's the least of the unrealistic aspects of 40k lol

[plush mason]

true

[distant harness]

their religion is for sure over the top yeah

though I guess we don't have religious enforcement the way the imperium does, or a living god figure that's been around since basically forever

like sob can basically do magic just through being super faithful

[thin hatch]

human history has bit and pieces of acting like the imperium. But that's bit and pieces, not nearly as long as the imperium does.

but well it's all about the grimderp isnt it

[plush mason]

yup

and tbh

the imperium isnt really that over the top

most of the real world olegarchies where far worse with their religious enforcment

i guess it just goes to show

the real history will also out do the fictions

[plush mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpPK644bclU

so what exactly is this vehicle?

[plush mason]

ok so

[vapid sentinel]

looks like a pimped up version of a Primaris Repulsor

[plush mason]

a centurion is like a cross between a noraml space marine and a terminator

is that really needed?

[vapid sentinel]

Its more like a step up from terminator

[plush mason]

ah

also i love how the standered melee for the suits are rock drills

seeing as the terminator armor is just a golden age mining suit lol

[vapid sentinel]

yeah true still it is pretty new even in 40k time

[plush mason]

i just love how some of the imperiums mightiest weapons are just industral tech from the golden age

[vapid sentinel]

I doubt it comes from that Industrie tech would not be armored in that extend

[plush mason]

the kind of super minning they where doing in the golden age would call for that

and a suir like the terminator suits would be a minners dream

they could just dig their way out of a cavein

[vapid sentinel]

True. But it would also be pretty slow

Bot termis and Centurions are not the fastest

[plush mason]

does really need to be tho in suits like that

plus they might have been faster back then

i dont trust the admechs to keep them running to golden age standerds

[vapid sentinel]

i wont trust the Admech with charging my phone without drowning it in oil

[plush mason]

yes

[vapid sentinel]

Im really amazed that they arnt declaring war to the Imperium for using Primaris. From there point of view its one of the highest form of heresy

[final spruce]

Declaring war to whomst ?

[vapid sentinel]

To the Imperium

[rotund siren]

because the Emperor committed Tech Heresy?

[final spruce]

But who would be declaring said war ?

[vapid sentinel]

Admech because Primaris are heresy. and the Imperium is using them

[final spruce]

Because they are both co-dependant

[storm jungle]

[vapid sentinel]

That was also the truth before the Horus Heresy and then they also waged war against the Imperium. Now there is a guy who has tinkered with the creation of their god. The Emperor is the physical manifestation of the Machine God. I would think that using that "perversion" would be a reason to declare war and split

[storm jungle]

Yeah but they cant

because plot

[vapid sentinel]

yeah okay

[distant harness]

I don't know why they'd wage war against the imperium when it was an admech dude who made them, using notes that were left for him by things they see as divine

[vapid sentinel]

Cawl is not the Admech poster boy because he is more interested in innovate existing tech then finding the lost or Copy what they allready have.
i also not remember that the Admech sees the Primarchs as divine
And still. You know how it is on our earth. Some people are going on there personal war for showing a picture of their god. Imagine what people would do if you change something that is divine. Especially in a Cult where changing is already borderline heresy

[primal tide]

If they were gonna, they would have by now. They ain't doin shit

Your summoning ritual was successful:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/18/last-minute-gift-ideas-with-love-from-james-workshop/

[plush mason]

i mean are the space marines even seen as divine by the admechs?

[celest dome]

No, TechMarine are seen as simple Adept, they are even less trusted as their loyalty isn't only with the Mechanicus

[vapid sentinel]

not the SM itself but its a creation from god. I read that somewhere the admech was not amused that someone tempered with the SM template
Even the SM Chapters arnt allowed to temper with there geneseed

[celest dome]

Corvus Corax did it when his legion needed it

[barren tapir]

They are not amused maybe, but that doesn't mean that what cawl did was heresy, the primaris aren't really machine, and he was working with the backing of a primarch and the emperor... Tech heresy and tech innovation is heresy, tampering with xenos is heresy, but genetic experiments are accepted by the Ad. Mech. more than machine experimentations

[celest dome]

Well that would depend on where you are (On an importance scale and on which ForgeWorld you work)

[vapid sentinel]

Backing of a primarch yes. Backing of the big E? Never saw that

[celest dome]

Backing of the Custodes iirc

[primal tide]

Implicit backing by not being smote by holy light

[celest dome]

Which basically mean the Emperor

[vapid sentinel]

Could be that my source was wrong. I cant even remember where i read that. It was from one of the books but i cant remember which. But since plot it was highly unlikely that there would be such a war

[barren tapir]

No, cawl has a memory where the emperor thell him that it will come a time when cawl will think he is bteraying him (big e), but to keep working of that... Funny thing is that that memory wasn't a cawl memory, it was a memory of a terran geneticist who tried to merge his mind with cawl's one, so in the end Big E just called that geneticist cawl because he foresaw what would happen... Let me find lexicanum page for that, i fear i will not be capable to find the book excerpt for that

[primal tide]

Yeah he did a total 'just as planned' kind of thing, love it

[barren tapir]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ezekiel_Sedayne

This guy, it is why i started making a crazy theory where the emperor can see very far in the future, but cannot see what course of action in its entirety but only some part of what will have the result he want

[primal tide]

Hes said as much at one point, likening it to seeing across a vast ocean to a distant shore

He can see the shoreline, but not what method will successfully get him there, or what pitfalls hell encounter on the way

[barren tapir]

So, all my thinking when it was already confirmed... I don't know if i should be happy that i war right or pissed that i didn't found out that before

[primal tide]

Or like crawling up a rocky mountain

You see where you're going but not which handholds are secure

[barren tapir]

Well, time to develop some other crazy theories

[primal tide]

I'll look for an exerpt

[vapid sentinel]

Whats your theory on the golden Throne?

[barren tapir]

It is a throne, it is also a weird piece of tech discovered during the unification war, probably alien in origin... It has been modified by the emperor, and then by the Ad. Mech. and dorn to keep "alive" the emperor... And now it is failing, and the Ad. Mech. hasn't the knowledge to repair it... So... Maybe just as planned? But then why there is the talisman made by vulkan?

It is really similar to the pharos on sotha too, both were under a great mountain, both seems to work with psychics, and both seems to be able to open portals through the warp...

[open summit]

IIRC, the talisman created by Vulcan is part of a contingency plan to exterminatus Terra if the palace is ever overrun by Demons thanks to the warp rift.

[vapid sentinel]

You forgot that the Dark Elder apparently know how to do maintenance or repairs on the throne

[barren tapir]

It is hinted yes, at least that is what vulkan think it will do IIRC, and he doesn't really remember when, why or how he crafted it

[barren tapir]

That is what the inquisition think

You should never trust an eldar and the dark eldars more than the normal eldars

[primal tide]

@Silver#8115 I can't find the rock climbing one even though I felt it was a better quote, but the first exerpt in this thread is the other example I mentioned
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/e8kgfb/the_master_of_mankind_and_ahriman_the_exile_both

[barren tapir]

Not that it matter, everyone who tried to smuggle a haemonculs got executed and the haemonculs killed already

[primal tide]

Pings broken for some reason

[barren tapir]

Thanks, i will read it now

[primal tide]

👍

D'oh, the other quote was in the comments:

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/e8kgfb/the_master_of_mankind_and_ahriman_the_exile_both/fadt49r

[barren tapir]

Really good explanations... the emperor's one is more secular and objective than that of ahriman, and it also show two way to approach foreshight... Where the emperor try to find the best way to the result ahriman is trying more to force it, it is quite blind as approach, or at least prideful thinking that what he saw isn't something that already has counted his course of action, i think that emperor had that phase too, but with time he understand that he is not the master of time, he is just a ship in the sea of time, he cannot command the wind, but he can adjust the sail... It seems that ahriman still has to understand that...

[vapid sentinel]

will that be the time when Ahriman also understands what he has done and try to atone for his path?

[barren tapir]

Probably, his story is one where he think he know better than anyone else, until he understand that he is not the master of the universe he will still stumble

[vapid sentinel]

Maybe turning to the chaos gods and turning his brothers ins soulless animated things would be somthing to atone for

[barren tapir]

Why? the rubric was indeed a bad thing, but turning to chaos? What else should have done? Accept death for a crime he didn't committed and a punishment that wasn't declared?

He for sure must find a solution for his pride in thinking that he could perform the rubric when even magnus wouldn't dare doing it yet, but turning to chaos was just a forced thing

Russ should have arrested magnus, not killing him, but then horus changed the orders, or convinced russ to simply kill magnus... He was used, he understand that only after the damage was already done, and that is probably because he simply didn't followed the original order or let his emotions (he hated sorcery) guide him

[vapid sentinel]

Russ did the wrong thing for sure and it forced him to do something. And yet he didnt stopped to serve Chaos or slaughtering people for them.
But i guess thats the same in the service of chaos. I still think it would be something different serving the imperium than serving chaos. atleast your serving someone that not wants everything dead and Humans would survive. That better than all is dead

[storm jungle]

Honestly my stance is:

Everyone did everything wrong.

[rotund siren]

Absolutely

[storm jungle]

🐺

[velvet yarrow]

Also big e was a shit dad

[storm jungle]

^

[rotund siren]

^

[storm jungle]

I got all this bullshit technology

but i cant remove nails from my son's brain

because lol Heresy has to happen and he needs to betray me for plot

[velvet yarrow]

Also why the fuck did he not tell people how to use the web way so the age of strife didn’t need to happen

Or am I thinking of the wrong age

[vapid sentinel]

I mean Angron was f****ed up from the start. there was no need to turn his whole legion. He was intelligent enough to know what it does to him. So he should put that burden onto his children

Big E was never able to finisch the Web Way for the humans. The would using the one the eldars uses with the result of having to fight in it

[primal tide]

To be fair... the nails are described as having replaced most of angrons brain

[rotund siren]

And they can't replace those nails with mechanical brain parts?

[primal tide]

Honestly could have just put him down, but maybe the play was to let angron be so that khorne would take him instead of sangy boy

[rotund siren]

or grow the brain back?

[primal tide]

Dunno

[rotund siren]

or do literally any of the wild shit the emperor's already done

like

how can you make NEW ORGANS

but not fix 1 brain?

[primal tide]

The nails are dark age shit, I doubt emp just has entire spare mechanical primarch brains sitting around

[rotund siren]

do you though?

[primal tide]

Nope, I also don't have those things

[rotund siren]

FOR THE PLOT!

[velvet yarrow]

Ok but why didn’t he tell anyone that the web way meant you don’t have to flip a coin to see if you got sent to the immatrium so the ad mech could continue the work or we steal it from the eldar

[rotund siren]

PLOT

but yeah, maybe he didn't think anyone else could do it?

[velvet yarrow]

The eldar did it how hard can it be

[rotund siren]

that is rude

also didn't they make it at, like, the height of their power?

plus, they were created by the Old Ones

[velvet yarrow]

Fair

[rotund siren]

and were apparently, at one point, equal to krorks

[velvet yarrow]

I’m just thinking about all the people stuck in the warp because their ship’s demon condom had a hole in it

[rotund siren]

yaeh

yeah*

[vapid sentinel]

From what i know Big E said he could remove the nails but it that means angron would die so he rather not do it.
but i guess there are ways to recreate angrons mind in a mechanical brain. so that would have worked

[rotund siren]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vapid sentinel]

the Admech was never keen on working on alien Tech i doubt they would understand that or do it.
Also thanks to Magnus the portal on Terra turned into a gateway to the warp if i understand that correct. Which is also only held close by the Big E on his throne.
Stealing would be a way but stealing from Xenos is bad

[velvet yarrow]

stealing from xenos is bad

Say the inquisition who steal any xeno weapon that’s kills the heretics better

[primal tide]

I'm pretty sure the webway was made by the old ones, not by the eldar

[vapid sentinel]

Part of the Inquisition and Xenos are bad is something that the most Admech and Inqs are thinking.

[vapid sentinel]

I wrote used not made :)
And yeah you are right the old ones made it

[barren tapir]

The emperor could have removed the nails, but that would have killed angron, and that was something he didn't want to do...

The nails were also a dark tech from the age of tech, so much that most of the template for them were destroyed when found by the mechanicus, or put in some forgotten vault... The nails used on angron were also quite crude, not really a great piece of tech, that is why they were so vicious to remove

[primal tide]

Also the ones used on the legion are poor imitations that approximate the effect but are not nearly as invasive

[vapid sentinel]

Big E is older the the dark age so he should know how to remove it or atleast be able to save Agrons mind in an Tech brain or something

[vapid sentinel]

but wouldnt that be better tech? Same result less deadly and removable

[barren tapir]

He knew how to remove them, but doing so would have killed angron

[vapid sentinel]

let me rephrase. He should be able to understand the tech and change the behaviour and remove its brain destroying effects

[barren tapir]

And it would have killed him because the guy who implanted them didn't cared about removing them, so he simply removed part of the brain and putted the nails there, in a very crude way too, probably a normal human would have died already, angron instead managed to live quite a lot with them

[barren tapir]

It is not an effect, it is part of the brain removed physically, angron missed part of his brain

[vapid sentinel]

yes. those parts where removed. In addition the Nails are described as Fatal thanks to its degenerative effects. Angron would have died simply because the nails would have destroyed the remaining brain

[barren tapir]

Indeed, i discovered that when i read that lorgar did a ritual for transforming angron in a demon prince because otherwise he would have died... In some way he did that to save the brother... Still damn lorgar and his books

[prisma lark]

I just came back from work and yall are discussing heresy?!

[barren tapir]

I don't believe in heresy, so no, i wasn't discussing heresy

[vapid sentinel]

its not heresy when no Inquisitor is around to see it

[plucky moth]

[verbal nest]

What if the inquistor is the one causing all the heresy

by being hot and being a playable character in Danktide

[barren tapir]

An hot inquisitor doing heresy? I assume that he/she is hot because on fire...

[open summit]

You mean basically the plot for "Space Marine?"

[final spruce]

Too many hornies

[vapid sentinel]

Unsure. There are no guideline about that in the Codex Astartes. So instruction unclear

[primal tide]

"better" if you prefer preserving brain matter over making the perfect killing machine. This assumption isn't shared with the creators of the original Nails, obviously.

Being older than the dark age doesn't mean he specifically is gonna go through the ridiculous effort of reverse engineering the Nails just to save what is essentially a dulled tool

Better to keep on keeping on because there is worse shit coming so no time to lose

[rotund siren]

wow

shots fired

[vapid sentinel]

I understand and your arguments are very valid, still the Big E did enough dumb things so he could stop doing that and save one of his son from dying a horrible death.
He was able to do it or should be able to do it without spending an eternity to find a solution.

[primal tide]

Given the linked stuff I put in this channel earlier this morning, there would have been no way to know if it would the the right call to fix angron

The heresy would almost certainly have gone even worse if angron was fixed but still maintained his dislike of E

The only reason the eisenstein was able to get word to terra was because angron wanted to go smash face on isstvan instead of starting off with the bombardment that horus wanted

And the whole traitor force was barely being held together by perturabo having to corral fulgrim and angron by the time they get to terra

[barren tapir]

Angron landed after the initial bombardment finished, horus wanted to keep bombing, but angron was "YOLO" and so horus had to follow him

[primal tide]

Yeah, sorry there was a volley or so that got sent first

But angron essential handed the loyalists a hail mary opportunity to go warn terra

With a more reasoned angron present instead, that doesn't happen

People assume that in fixing angron, E would convert him to a more solid ally which doesn't check out at all

Angrons motivations for betrayal go beyond the pain of the Nails

[final spruce]

Angron was still fucked from growing up

Fixing the nail problem wouldn't have fixed his past

Or how he felt he should have died with his fellows

[primal tide]

Exactly

'I do not stand with Horus.' Angron breathes the confession. 'I stand against the Emperor. Do you understand Kauragar? I am free now. Free. Can you not understand that? Why have you all spent these last decades telling me I should feel honored to live as a slave, when I was so close to dying free?'

Angron wanted a good death, as a free man

[crisp heath]

I can respect that.

[primal tide]

Ridding him of the nails doesn't change that

https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/kf3yc7/book_excerpt_lord_of_the_red_sands_angron_shares

[vapid sentinel]

It also could be that with him fixed he wouldnt hate the big E. The nails where tomenting him if he was not in combat and all he could feel was hate. Without that he might not be so unstable. Also not change his legion and would not be criticised what drove him further from the Imperium.
A tamed Angron might not have fallen for Horus lies and fought him wen horus approched him

[odd sparrow]

imagine how much better off the galaxy would be if big e hired a few good therapists for his kids

[final spruce]

Imagine thinking Big E thought of the primarch as his kids

He merely let them call him their father

[crisp heath]

Big E was a self-obsessed prick who got what was coming to him

I'd rather follow the T'au.

[final spruce]

And its shown even more during Dark imperium where Roboute gets to talk to Big E as a God, as something that cannot lie

[primal tide]

Angron had qualities of an empath, he was likely supposed to be the 'therapist' of the group

[crisp heath]

No wonder he hated Big E-hole.

[primal tide]

I think you glossed over my messages

[odd sparrow]

alas angron ended up as [[pure anger]]

[primal tide]

Angry Ron

[vapid sentinel]

just a slow tipper because English is not my first language 😄

[primal tide]

No worries

[vapid sentinel]

Okay that is new for me. Thats painting a whole new picture. From what i knew is the the nails gave him Constant pain which was getting wors the longer he was not in combat. Also he only could feel hate. So he was realy unstable and blood thirsty.
That Quote doesnt sound like that kind of man

[final spruce]

Oh no, the Nails don't make him bloodthirsty

It just kills all other emotions and makes you dull until you enter battle

And then it boosts your brain to oblivion

And Angron was just a husk when outside combat

His dialogues with his fellow primarchs, especially the ones with Gulliman shows that

[primal tide]

Literally crying for his father and hiding behind his chair at one point during the heresy

Hes barely lucid at some times

(And by father, I mean adoptive, not E)

[vapid sentinel]

Then removing/deactivating the nails would have the effect that he would hate the big E even more. When he hated the E in husk form the Emotion for his Adoptive Dad would make him hate him more

[slate grotto]

Late to the topic, but this is why Angron is one of my favourites. Yeah being constant rage isn't the most compelling character writing, but I feel he's an extremely tragic character, barely given a chance. One act from the Emperor would've changed so much, if he'd saved Angrons friends, he'd likely stand by him through anything - with or without the nails.
I'm also still quite early on in the books, but from what I've seen here and there, he seems at times to actually break through the rage as well and show his personality a bit more. Being quite jovial when lifting (sort of) a Titan foot.

Pertuarbo is another favourite, again, he's certainly got some issues that make him seem a bit of an idiot.. but when he gets put into a position he can do the things he wants to, he is noticeably happy. All he wanted originally was to be a craftsman, an architect, he was accepting of being a warmonger, but got given the meat grinder tasks - initially he accepted them because he wanted to gain Emperors praise, and then eventually it was just given to him because he was good at it. Even though war wasn't his desire, he actively enjoyed it when he got to do it in a way that let him really flex his intelligence. To an extent, you could essentially say his problem was he just wasn't intellectually stimulated, it happens a lot with people IRL, super geniuses who end up 'failing' because they're essentially bored.

[open marsh]

@stark flower

[rotund siren]

sure love them feral worlders

[open marsh]

The IG has the most varied pick of how they look. Its just too bad GW just wants to show of cadians. MAYBE Krieg if you are lucky

If you wanna use Skitarii Vanguards as Guardsmen:

[rotund siren]

they kinda remind me of the Solar Auxilia

[open marsh]

You know, youd think thered still be some regiments of solar auxillia around

[rotund siren]

Yeah

Especially since, apparently, they were 20-25% of the Imperial Army

made of lots of cohorts, each with 120,000 soldiers

[open marsh]

yep

[rotund siren]

sorry, thousands of cohorts

one of them mentioned is the 1522nd Solar Auxilia Cohort

that's at least 182.64 million troops

[ashen zenith]

Quick question

What's the goal of chaos?

Just destroying all life?

[open marsh]

Consume everything

The goals of Chaos are like that of a wildfire. Burn everything in its path, find new sources of fuel to continue burning and burn hotter. Dont think of what happens when you run out of fuel

[ashen zenith]

:o

Well thats

Kinnda anticlimactic

[open marsh]

Let the Galaxy Burn

[open marsh]

What if Ogryns are just Orkz who believe they are humies

[upbeat tartan]

erm... waagh energy has no effect on humies, they only affect orkz

so to other orkz, they'd look like ogryns, but to humies, they'd look like greenskins

and as we all know

WHERE THERE'S ONE THERE'S A HUNDRED

[open marsh]

Thenz purple Orkz wouldn't be sneaky

[celest dome]

Purple is a meme

Orkz colour/psycher power only work with multiple Orks present

[crisp heath]

Okay fellow convicts I have a question on this game story, first of all we're all convicts? I'm guessing we're sent off on a suicide job then yes?

[vapid sentinel]

Yes. As far as i know we are there to investigate some kind of chaos cult

[thick shadow]

👏

Emperor was rather mysterious, but yet a good person in general before GW changed the lore with 30k / Horus heresy books.

I miss old days... 👴

[slate grotto]

I wasn't aware it had really been changed I admit, I thought it was just that there basically wasn't anything but the bare bones before.

Although the recent lore changed more, for me, as prior to that I always thought the Emperor was effectively in a permanent vegetative state, coma etc. The artwork making him look like a skeleton. Then along comes Roman Bobby and has a conversation with him.

[vapid sentinel]

having a conversation could mean in a telepathic way. Big E is a strong psyker so it could be possible

[thick shadow]

Anyway, he's like... a emotionless, empathy-less asshole but also strong as a god, literally.

#NotMyEmperor

And I realize that I hate most of lore changes that they've made.

Those are stats since from... Matt Ward

I don't hate all of it, but most of change that they've made.

It should've rather stayed at 2000

[vapid sentinel]

welcome to life where things are changing

[distant harness]

was emp even really a proper character at all before the hh books?

I know he popped up in stuff rarely, but I can't recall any actual personality traits

[slate grotto]

Even psychically seemed beyond what I had previously thought possible, I'd just always thought of him as lifeless, put on the throne as a symbol more than anything. If he's able to communicate in any way, then he clearly hasn't said "Let me die already" or "Get me off this thing" or similar, which I find very interesting.
He's always been focused on humanities future of course, hence being so low on emotion and always about the long term, but this implies he's still seeking that and not giving up or tired of it all. And that surprises me.

[thick shadow]

[slate grotto]

Re: Changes in general. I'm not a fan of Primaris, and am on the fence over the Necron shift. I like that Squats are being reintroduced, but I do like that the status quo has changed a bit and progress of timeline is occuring.

[thick shadow]

I'm same with about the Squats

[vapid sentinel]

So far until that point he communicated through the Emperor's Tarot which is some what unclear as you could think
We also dont know if they actually talked or not. It was behind closed doors and nobody knows what happend.

[thick shadow]

The truth is, the custodes makes him shut

[dense glen]

I like that Squats are being reintroduced

The Inquisition have called, and request that you sit in the BLUE chair, citizen

[thick shadow]

Anyway, I like the changes on necrons. But it introduce really bad.

[storm jungle]

Squats arent heresy tho lol

they only just got nommed

[vapid sentinel]

Introducing a "new" faction seems like a bit unnecessary. The have so much work to do with the existing one

But lore wise its good that they are back

[thick shadow]

Their planet called as a Tyran

And that's how tyraninds git ther name

The first known victim to known to our galaxy

Or the Imperium

[vapid sentinel]

Tyran is not the squat homeworld or even in squat Territory but they still got eaten by the nids

[storm jungle]

Yeah Tyran is the FIRST CONTACT the imperium had with nids where it had some guard regiments and techboyz

the squats homeworld just happened to be in the way during the galactic incursion

[dense glen]

Squats live(d) near the Galactic Core of worlds; they were not a part of the Imperium in any grand way, more being allies and techonological salesmen. Sure, some squats joined the Imperial Army/Guard, but they also fought the Imperium

When the Squats got nommed, the Imperium moved in and changed the light bulbs

[thick shadow]

Wait, it is?

[dense glen]

The Squats even had Warp Fission reactors.. which the Mechanicus tried to copy with typical.. results.. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Ganymede

[vapid sentinel]

Squat Territory is the red Circle and Tyran in somewhere in the green circle

[thick shadow]

Wonder why known this in wrong way...

Thanks for correction anyway

[slate grotto]

Squats - I played TT during 3rd ed, and it was almost forbidden to speak of Squats in store (a sort of joke, but also not really) because GW had removed them so hard. I don't think they were connected to Tyranids at all then, it was a case of "No, Squats never existed".

Necrons - In a way I liked the super mysterious death robots that just turned up, killed shit and left. No one knowing where they were from, quite a scary concept. I'm not against them being expanded upon at all, and the lore for them is quite good. My objection is that it feels like they essentially went "Hmm, we need an idea for Necrons... fuck it let's just reuse tomb kings".

It's the whole Dynasty thing, space skeletons with egyptian aspects etc. The Silent King is better, because there's more to it. Not sure how I feel on the flayed one adjustment though.

[thick shadow]

I don't like the new designs of necrons by the way

It just... got worse to me

So, let us say Fuck GW, not in sexual way(s)

[odd sparrow]

wdym the new designs?

[prisma lark]

the Squats being eaten by the nids was just typical GW tongue-in-cheek and/or what the Imperium thought happened

[odd sparrow]

Like, the whole tomb king necron vibe or the new new designs with them kinda going back to the original aesthetic in part

[thick shadow]

Both but the later one is way more worse

[prisma lark]

since then they have received two minis in Necromunda (which is canon to current 40k I believe?) and got teased in the last Psychic Awakening book

[storm jungle]

do you mean replacing the gauss rod

because that i can understand lol

[thick shadow]

So what I knew was an old lore?

[prisma lark]

also, newcrons are great and anyone who thinks otherwise is objectively wrong

[thick shadow]

I loved feelings of oldcrons

[slate grotto]

The newest Squat stuff, whats the lore for them?
IIRC the original was that they were essentially very high gravity human worlds that got cut off during the Age of Strife (?), but retained all their pre-Dark Age technology. When the great crusade came calling they effectively said bugger off and repelled them with superior firepower.

Is that still accurate or are they now part of the Imperium?

[vapid sentinel]

Squats are not bound to their homeworlds. There are some that survived because there where away from the Territory
Like with our Animals. Some species are extinct in the wild but we still have some in zoos

[storm jungle]

Nothings stopping that from happening though

theres still enslaved necrons in the lore by the c'tan boyz

[slate grotto]

/old man rambling
Back in my day there were no C'Tan!!! The Necrons were skinless terminators with suicide scarabs and jetbikes!

[storm jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/578484779331354624/738179384707514419/unknown.png

beep boop

[thick shadow]

Not the oldest!

[storm jungle]

noooo!!

[slate grotto]

Yeah, there was one before that iirc? From the dark times we don't talk about.

2nd Ed + are the only models that we bother to remember, 1st ed was dark times.

[thick shadow]

When everything was not plastic but a metal

[slate grotto]

Such as the Tyranids

[thick shadow]

Too old! Too OLD!

[slate grotto]

No race had good 1st ed models.

[thick shadow]

True

[storm jungle]

OH GOD

[slate grotto]

The difference to second ed is huge across the board, it's like an entirely different company.

[odd sparrow]

original nids are an experience

who remembers the old carnifexes

[slate grotto]

Some of the second ed models are still in use though (Eldar...Guard...)

[odd sparrow]

aaaaaAAAAAAA

[storm jungle]

[slate grotto]

At least you can slightly see the resemblence to more recent Carnifexes though.

The ones above are Warriors >.>

[odd sparrow]

yeah the warriors are just.

it is kinda cool seeing how the whole ridged aesthetic did carry over

[mint hill]

That's likely pre-Alien movie release

[slate grotto]

Side note - always frustrated me that it's TermaGANTS and HormaGAUNTS, but both are referred to as Gaunts, and used the same base model.

[storm jungle]

I swear to god thats a typo

GW was just too stupid to ever change it

[slate grotto]

Termagant does flow a bit better, but it's just... aaaaaaah.

[thick shadow]

I thank to Blizzard fir that, not today's Blizzard.

[slate grotto]

Aaaanyway. Oldcrons ftw!
I don't dislike the newer ones, the lore for them is cool, but it's a shame we can't have both. Mysterious eternal murder race that no one knows why they're here or where they're from (even the players), and the ancient god enslavers.
If I could change it, I'd make the entire necron race have the Silent King lore outside of Trayzn. I.E The whole race left the galaxy and is now returning, but things like the pylons were still built by them, remnants of their previous domain. Give them a different name.

[storm jungle]

Again you can though

its just that it was simply done so people could have their own dynasties and such instead of "Oh I serve this c'tan what about you josh, who does your army serve?"

[prisma lark]

yeah, forgot their name though

severed?

[storm jungle]

It wasnt helped by the fact that there was only like 2 ctan movels back in the day lol

yep those

Severed

[distant harness]

I feel like we do have the eternal murder race no-one truly understands even with newcrons

nids are a thing

[slate grotto]

Ah but we know Nids purpose ... foooood 😉

[distant harness]

ctan are the same, they're just picky eaters

[ancient kayak]

there also the idea that the Nids are running from something 😮

[slate grotto]

I do enjoy that theory.

[storm jungle]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/578484779331354624/763095819691229194/unknown.png?width=878&height=410

they still look scary imo

make this black and white and its basically old cron stuff

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/578484779331354624/763095514270793798/unknown.png

[ancient kayak]

i dont mind the new Cron things and actualy though people complain about some of the new models faces they are really nice to paint and mix up with really damaged models ect

[celest dome]

I want to be able to field Admech Force that are loyal to the Void Dragon

[thick shadow]

Aren't they just in sleeping? And if I know right, new or old, they both from our galaxy, not from the other ones, that's the tyranids.

[slate grotto]

I will gladly accept every single one of these things with open arms, compared to Primaris however.

When I started to read up on newer lore I loved that the Imperium had actually had a big blow, and then nope, Primaris.
It doesn't even make sense to me when I look at the reasoning either. Marine sculpts are too small compared to guard (altho fine compared to all others, so shrink guard instead?) -> Make bigger marine sculpts. Wait, lets also make lore to explain them being bigger! ... so now that makes both firstborn AND primaris models too small surely!?

[ancient kayak]

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120110052_NecronWarriorsLead.jpg

[vapid sentinel]

In a way they are all loyal to the dragon because its there real omnisias

[thick shadow]

I especially do not like that one eyed ones

[thick shadow]

Multiple legs, weirdly attached to its arm

[slate grotto]

They're better than a lot of newer models imo, but I do prefer the older (4th?) ed ones.
AoS models are the worst ones though I feel, they're so... over designed.

(I swear I'm not a grumpy old man complaining about the good old days. Not yet)

[thick shadow]

I still wish it was just a model update...

[thick shadow]

Where's my transparent green things?!

[ancient kayak]

well i dont miss that

[thick shadow]

It's like they removed any other than high fantasy

[ancient kayak]

there was a good chance you just got one with a huge mold line in it and there was nothing you could do

[thick shadow]

[ancient kayak]

painitng it with tesseract glow looks a lot nicer

[slate grotto]

From my experience so far, anyone who got into 40k in 8th loves them, anyone who got into it beforehand hates them. Whether they're tabletop players or just lore readers. That may just point to us all collectively being "change = bad", who knows. The other fairly consistent pattern is that the people who like them, are all SM fans 😉

So if someone already had a 'firstborn' army, or another faction, they're pissed.

I just find the reasoning to be totally flawed, because the idea was to fix the problem of marines being too small... but the Primaris are only the right size compared to the other marines, aka, also too small.
Better way would've been to shrink guard models, as marines scale to everything else quite well, AND guard are in need of a new range.

[prisma lark]

I got into 40k (and crons) during 2nd ed, I still love them more and more with each update they receive

[slate grotto]

Sorry, I meant Primaris 🙂

[thick shadow]

It's like, GW suddenly changes their targeting of consumers

[odd sparrow]

yeah i don't mind the newcrons at all tbh

[ancient kayak]

dont make my poor Guard models smaller 😮

[prisma lark]

no it's my bad, I'm reading manga so it's hard following the discussions here at the same time

[thick shadow]

Of course the new fans likes new and oldies hates it. Because it's way too different.

[prisma lark]

although, I like Primaris a bit, too 😉

[odd sparrow]

"i keep reading from the wrong direction"

[slate grotto]

Hehe, no problem 🙂 Topics shift fast, especially with the new reply system making it easier to skip back to earlier conversation points 🙂

[thick shadow]

And they made, update the marines models to be taller and has a better proportions before

[ancient kayak]

also thats how it is with most things even if some things are a improvment

people think back and prefer that

i played back in 3rd/4th and there are some things i prefer though i do like the new battleforged

reduces the spam

[thick shadow]

Oh, if it was just an improvement, I would happy about it. Like, an updates for models, better proportions.

[ancient kayak]

oh i am just refering to the rules

SM models are spireling into oddity why must all the tanks float now

https://storage.googleapis.com/spikeybits-staging-bucket/2020/06/c44795fe-invader-atv-white.jpg

and this what

[thick shadow]

Ah, the rules, I see

[slate grotto]

Updated models are great (altho I hate the vehicles), and even if I loathe the over saturation of marines, there have been some nice models in the past few years. I despise the updated lore for them though.

[thick shadow]

Dhadhddsafsdgfgvhsdbh

[slate grotto]

Ah yes, the ATV with zero ground clearance!

[ancient kayak]

what wrongwith a good old attack bike

poor man must be chosen for his lack of hearing

to drive that

[final spruce]

The ATM isn't used anyway

[thick shadow]

it's fine, he's an Astartes and has a fancy new helmet for ear protection

[final spruce]

People prefer to spam bikes on the tabletop

[thick shadow]

White Scars: [Starts to throat singing]

[ancient kayak]

Dark angels i see quite a few bike armys of as well

[distant harness]

tbf the noise thing was always the smallest issue with that design lol

marines being able to block out noise with their helmets isn't a reach at all

it's just really dumb looking

[slate grotto]

GW just need to start with nice, simple, baby steps...

... like using different legions instead of purely Ultras.

Then from there we can slowly work towards them realising not only do different legions exist, but also different races.

[distant harness]

marketing wise it's easier to just stick with one, they do it with basically every faction

[thick shadow]

Anyway, it would've better if that "cart" was just yet another anti gravity floating ized ones

[distant harness]

if there's a base marine unit, it's gonna get ultramarines colours, same as a sob unit will be our martyred lady

[odd sparrow]

ah yes the mario cart

it always just felt like it was missing about 1/3 of the kit tbh

[arctic ore]

Which getting one in Argent Shroud would be nice.

[odd sparrow]

it looks way too tiny and compact

hence the mario cart energy

[ancient kayak]

with SB i have seen quite a few diffrent paint designes

last one have seen in person was a gold purple design

[distant harness]

sob have a bunch of cool schemes available yeah

[distant harness]

I'm talking about their marketing stuff, all the models on the store are oml afaik

[ancient kayak]

ok

[thick shadow]

Anyway, why they suddenly turn their designing yet again? Wasn't just make everything into a floating anti gravity thing were not enough?

[ancient kayak]

New sells

[thick shadow]

Gotta 3D print Fan made anywsys

I don't have 3D printer(s) though

[ancient kayak]

also anything with SM sells almost instantly look at indomitus the amount of Necrons warriors for sale dropped there price on ebay to nothing for a bit as so many just bough it for the SM

it was like £8 per squad for a bit

[thick shadow]

Purge the normie SM only fans

[slate grotto]

If I had a 3D printer I might consider getting back into the models again, altho I'd do so by making like 3-5x scale single minis as little statues.

[ancient kayak]

it was a good time to start a Cron army if you wanted to thats for sure

unfortunatly most 3d printers are not good enough yet to reliably print smaller models with lots of details

you could probably churn out one of the older SM designes

[thick shadow]

So the problem was popularity...

Why, why it must be like this

Feels Tzeentch'd

[distant harness]

GW is a business, space marines sell

they've done crazy well recently, were already pretty much THE company in their field and are way more successful now than 10 years back

no reason for them to change off the strategy that's made so much money

[final spruce]

yes with the lockdown , 40k has never been this succesful

[slate grotto]

It's a cyclical issue though. Marines sell because they're always viable and get a lot of effort put into them. GW put effort in because they sell, etc.

[distant harness]

even before the lockdown, they've been exploding for a few years now

[vapid sentinel]

I also like Primaris, i still think if GW would put half the attention SM gets into other faction the also would sell

[slate grotto]

I'm sure marines would still sell if they released less of them, but there are fans who don't care for them, and are frequently put off by lack of other releases.

[distant harness]

I've heard a few GW authors talk about that actually, with xenos focused books

saying that they don't get made because they just don't sell anywhere near as well

[ancient kayak]

yep

[distant harness]

and that if people want more, they should buy the ones that do get made

[slate grotto]

Books I understand more tbh, it's really hard to write from an alien perspective

[distant harness]

I imagine GW have numbers from when a xenos race gets a big proper update

[thick shadow]

Fuck capitalism, fuck populism, ARGH

[ancient kayak]

a lot prefer reading from a Human point of view

yh i am sure the Necrons got overshadowed with there update buy the changes to SM

[atomic pelican]

Iirc the SM selling thing is a big cycle

GW supports them best

They get the most lore/model/promotional material etx

Thus they sell best

[distant harness]

it is to some degree, but I've not really seen any proof that xenos explode in popularity when they get more support

I think marines are just coolest to a lot of people tbh

[atomic pelican]

Necrons got rlly popular recently, no?

I thonk necrons surpassed Tau in most pop xeno because of the codex update iirc

[distant harness]

they're big cool dudes in big cool armour with big cool guns, it's a fairly well liked style lol

[atomic pelican]

Hmm

You know its weird

[ancient kayak]

SM also are the poster boy thats not going to change 9/10 times when someone walks into a GW shop for the first time and ask what to start with or look for something to paint they see the SM and so walk out with that

[atomic pelican]

Stormcasts are the posterboys of AoS, and they are the most popular army I think. But they also dont suck up every release

[ancient kayak]

most of the people i know first models were SM

they also give the idea of easy to paint for someone starting out

and so once you start with that most stick to it to build up that army

[distant harness]

AoS is still a developing game I guess, lots of factions are super lacking or being introduced

most of the 40k ones that haven't had updates in a while are pretty complete, they're just old models

they're definitely way better in spreading out releases for aos though, some factions need more attention but there's not a clear favourite

[atomic pelican]

Yus

[ancient kayak]

AoS from a rule point of view is great all it needs now is the Spacing sorting out which they are clearly experimenting with with those elf formations

there a few other things probably but cannot think of the top of my head

i do miss ranks though 😦

[slate grotto]

Basically yeah. Orks are my favourite race by a big margin, and part of that love comes from their general attitude of "WANT TO SMASH!" (simple as it may be). However reading a story from that perspective is hardly going to have a lot of depth or character moments. If I'm going to read an Ork novel, I'd be more likely to read a Yarrick one, or the Beast series.

[ancient kayak]

yep

[vagrant osprey]

There's a lot of potential for novels about Freebooters, although TBH rogue traders in general have the most potential for interesting stories.

[median sundial]

No one answered that one question I had about what the OG Astartes and Dreadnoughts thought of the Primaris Marines.

[final spruce]

Ah

Well it is chapter dependant

The Dark Angels ? Well they mindwipe the Primaris after each mission and even executed a captain for being kind to voidborn humans having a panic attack when it first landed on a planet

Lamenters ? Well its almost a full Primaris chapter now

[median sundial]

Wow. Didn't know the Dark Angles hated them that much.

[final spruce]

But the Primaris tend to be viewed a bit weirdly in general, even in the Ultramarines rank with Gulliman expressively telling the firstborn to accept their new brothers

Because Primaris actually do not grow with their chapter, so they don't get their culture

Primaris for example with do chants and prayers to the Omnissiah or will do the rites of maintenance to their own bolter

Because they are brought up in an Admech heavy environment

[median sundial]

Woah.

[open marsh]

The first wave of Primaris

[kind dove]

The Vanguard I believe they are called

[final spruce]

Yes

[open marsh]

Later ones made by their chapters dont have this issue

[median sundial]

I just thought they were regular marines with the edges sanded off. Didn't know they didn't get the in-jokes of their chapters and basically praised the Omnisiah as well. The first wave at least.

[final spruce]

It's funny because in the books featuring the vanguard, well you literally see boomer vs zoomer issue

A generation clash, just like in real life when you cringe when a child does a Fortnite dance

Yes but I believe since the Priamris do not share the same gene-seed as the rest, they actually don't get the same upbringing

The Primaris Space wolves don't get their drink I believe

Lemme check that actually

[median sundial]

Dark Angel: The Eldar stepped on their own landmines. HA, what a Gulliman moment!
Primaris Inceptor: A what?

[final spruce]

Nothing mentionning the Primaris getting the Canis Helix

Last one was wrong

[open marsh]

The primaris have all the same gene-flaws as their OGs. It just seems Cawl put them on timed delay to get them past some wary eyes

besides degraded organs, like malfunctioning betcher's glands and such

[final spruce]

The Blood Angel book does hint towards Primaris being able to get the Black Rage

But it doesn't actually happen

[atomic pelican]

Dang these guys are gonna go awhile then turn into primordial goop

[scenic bolt]

DEATH COMPANY PRIMARIS

[final spruce]

Yeah the Primaris Gene-seed only has a 0.001% chance to mutate

From what Cawl says

But yes, the Primaris do not have the gene flaws

[open marsh]

There are literally death company primaris

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/11/warhammer-40k-meet-the-death-company-intercessors.html

And the Space Wolves Primaris have started to succumb to the curse of the wulfen

[ashen zenith]

does the average human know psykers exist?

[open marsh]

Sort of

They know people can have magic powers, but they arent well versed in how those powers work or anything

Most chalk it up to them being a "witch" and kill them

[barren tapir]

Most primaris are also from the time of the great crusade, so for many of them it is weird to see the imperium of the 41 millennium

[crisp heath]

probably world dependent

if you live on a hive world or a civilized one possibly

if you live on some shitty feudal world then i'd wager you might think they're witches and burn them if they do weird shit.

[ashen zenith]

that must be scary, knowing there are people out there that can suddenly implode into hell but not knowing who it is

[final spruce]

You now understand why people are so fucking scared of psykers

Especially when that explosion may birth a daemon

[ashen zenith]

well they dont really know its a literal demon right cause normal people dont know about the warp?

[final spruce]

All cultures have daemons, spirits and the like

So they may not call it a daemon but something else

[open marsh]

Most of the Imperium knows what the Warp is and what Daemons are on a surface level (scary, corrupting, evil, probably stabby) but they dont know more than that

[atomic pelican]

@open marsh

From this page

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Velk'Han

fandom wiki tho

[open marsh]

Deathwatch: The Achilus Assault (RPG), pp. 115-116

[distant harness]

I'll check those pages whenever it loads

[atomic pelican]

It should be noted that the Tau, to my knowledge, have never cured the GSC stuff OUTSIDE of Velk'Han which would be a pretty weird thing considering their PA book was all about Tau Vs. GSC

[rotund siren]

hmm

[storm jungle]

and give people more salt ammunition

"MUH GRIMDANK"

[rotund siren]

maybe it'll get retconned, maybe it's maybelline

[storm jungle]

GW probably doesnt even remember it

[open marsh]

Maybe the other Tau havent learned of this process yet. Or since its not fully tested they arent sure if it 100% works?

[open marsh]

Or that

[atomic pelican]

Earth csste would share it for sure

[atomic pelican]

Esp since GSC are a big problem for takem hive worlds

[storm jungle]

Yeah like jokes aside we need to consider, GW doesnt remember half of the side content they make up for RPG books.

Its why i find statements like "everything is canon" kinda stupid in most contexes.

[atomic pelican]

Ayy there it is

[distant harness]

ya the RPGs are always just "canon unless it contradicts something else" as far as I see it

[open marsh]

Yeah so they are keeping it hush so the Imperium doesnt learn about it

[distant harness]

the everything is canon line is dumb

[storm jungle]

||Does "re-coded" stand for Earth-Caste issue condoms||

[storm jungle]

also noooo a 40k author said it so it must be true!

[atomic pelican]

RHSHDHD

[open marsh]

bonk

[atomic pelican]

Just believe ur own interpretation imo. 40k lore is all over the place.

Who cares

[distant harness]

power armour is both capable of stopping tank shells, and also weaker than flesh and bone at the same time

world eaters punch harder than modern tank cannons shoot

[storm jungle]

[atomic pelican]

Tau have toes.

[storm jungle]

Also lore purists do

AHEM ACKHSUALLY

THIS HORUS HERESY BOOK SAYS

[atomic pelican]

DUWBDHSD

The virgin lore expert vs the chad mythos explorer

[storm jungle]

If only

god i cant wait for the lore complaints in-game

"AN OGRYN KILLS MORTARION FTW"

[open marsh]

cracks knuckles

[atomic pelican]

WHY RECOIL?!?!

[storm jungle]

BECAUSE IT LOOKS COOL

REEEE

[distant harness]

lasguns don't even have a canon is the dumb thing lol

there's about a million different types and they all do a million different things

[open marsh]

they all do the same thing, shoot a beam of las energy

[distant harness]

I mean yeah I guess, they are all both las and gun

[open marsh]

Every known pattern of lasgun: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lasgun

[storm jungle]

@crisp heath So okay i forgot which codex its mentioned in

But vatborn are usually watched over in like small citadels by wracks akin to literal babysitters.

[crisp heath]

cause one alternative would tell me they're made from 'stock' genetic material

but another is

that if a DEldar accidentally becomes pregnant, they'd just pop it out and finish growing it in a vat

[storm jungle]

They cant though

[crisp heath]

aint nobody got time for kids, gotta raid and shit

[storm jungle]

its all about status

[crisp heath]

yeah if you want a trueborn at all

because its kind of a big deal

[final spruce]

Which is surprising since Deldars tend to view actual babies aka not clones as a nobility thing ?

[storm jungle]

Yep as i was saying

they cant just hot-pocket it, they need to naturally give birth

[final spruce]

Aka look at me I'm so powerful I can allow myself to have a baby in a nation where everybody wants me dead and my seat

[crisp heath]

yeah but if they don't want to naturally give birth?

[storm jungle]

No idea

they probably do what you suggest

For now its just

Trueborn
Vatborn

[crisp heath]

i know that it's a status thing to carry your child to term and then that kid will have the "i came out of a real vagina" VIP pass

[storm jungle]

they dont go into much detail

best wording imo

[final spruce]

Came out like a true Deldar

[crisp heath]

"move you test tube mfs, pussy boy is here"

[storm jungle]

That actually happens a lot lol

[crisp heath]

it does

"why should you get better armor"
"uhm a dracon squeezed me out from between her legs your vat grown brain wouldn't get it. nepotism."

[storm jungle]

God I love dark eldar

shame GW doesnt give them more books

All we got is that one upcoming Marine one involving sharkmen going to spike-city

[crisp heath]

i love DEldar

but you know what i don't love

people painting them as humans with pointy ears in bdsm clothes

make them look fucking scary please

[final spruce]

Dunno they always managed to give me the alieny vibe

[storm jungle]

They did?

[final spruce]

Especially the Haemonculi

[storm jungle]

Ehhh not really?

[final spruce]

From my point of view

[storm jungle]

FKSDDFKSJ

[distant harness]

based bat elf

[crisp heath]

ya thats not bad

[final spruce]

The face of beauty

[storm jungle]

god i took that thing with me to every morning uni class, and my teacher was like

looks at cover

What are you reading dilara

"Fantasy stuff sir"

"Ah"

[final spruce]

BDSM elves in space

[distant harness]

I have a "questionably acquired" ebook of one of those actually

that is formatted to be 25000 pages long

for some reason

[storm jungle]

I got all 3 novels, they're great

also i love how haemonculi are walking plot devices

aka can do literally anything

[crisp heath]

not official art, it's from some other game, but fitting imo

[final spruce]

Its actually funny when you learn that a known punition in deldar community is to turn you into a human

[storm jungle]

YES

VAMPIRE KNIGHT

[crisp heath]

YOU KNOW IT TOO?

OMG

[storm jungle]

DUDE THEY ARE LITERALLY WHAT BIRTHED DARK ELDAR IMO

ITS LITERALLY THE SAME CONCEPT

[crisp heath]

HAVE YOU ACTUALLY READ THE COMIC

[storm jungle]

YES

ALL PAGES

[crisp heath]

OH MY FUCKING GOD

OH MY FUCKING GOD

THAT'S A FIRST

[storm jungle]

DFSJHFJDHSFDHJS

[crisp heath]

HERRGOTT THAT'S A FIRST IN MY LIFE

[open marsh]

Whether Dark Eldar are beautiful or horrid depends on when the last time they have bathed in the suffering and pain of others in sufficient quantities

[storm jungle]

UWU ❤️

[crisp heath]

IT'S MY FAVORITE COMIC

[storm jungle]

also what NukeMed said

[crisp heath]

I KISS THE GROUND OLIVIER LEDROIT WALKS ON

[storm jungle]

I wish the comic continued ngl

[crisp heath]

same

[storm jungle]

hate abrupt endings

[crisp heath]

im legit growing my hair out for a possible future heinrich cosplay

just

all the designs in the comic, all the art

so good

[storm jungle]

Heinrich was the O.G dark eldar

big fucking pauldron

edgy BOI

[crisp heath]

nah, he was actually remorseful

sometimes

Otto tho?

100%

[storm jungle]

HM good comparison

[crisp heath]

just put some horns on his helmet and you've got an incubus

[final spruce]

Is that what finding your soulmate looks like ?

[storm jungle]

Kind of

[crisp heath]

kinda

[distant harness]

they even respond the same way

a true discord romance

[final spruce]

Thats a https://img.ifunny.co/images/5f624fcd96d0b695dafbd1364d4266498305410e8bfa7b0ae32f2a0529e9fcbc_1.jpg moment

[storm jungle]

^

[crisp heath]

yes

it's SUCH a beautiful comic with such a grimdark mood

and no one fucking knows it

[storm jungle]

DUDE WAIT

[crisp heath]

this shit looks straight out of 40k

[storm jungle]

QUEENS

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EblZ-QeXsAEDzki.jpg

[crisp heath]

lmao

yes

[storm jungle]

but yeah jokes aside im 100% sure Requiem inspired early 40k stuff

the art style matches perfectly

[obtuse vault]

dilara you cant be a simp in here!

its illegal!

[crisp heath]

like if i told you this is 40k would you believe me or not

[storm jungle]

FITE ME

also i would

look at that fucker

SPIKEZ

[crisp heath]

im illegally horny for almost every other vampire and lamia in requiem

[storm jungle]

Same tbh

not even gonna say anything else its the truth

[crisp heath]

bathory bathing
me: 👀

otto in that shirt
me: 👀

[storm jungle]

aaAAA

[obtuse vault]

https://tenor.com/view/simp-pointing-gif-15954006

[crisp heath]

rebecca appears in general
me: 👀

[obtuse vault]

MODS WE GOT SIMPS IN HERE

[final spruce]

Shut up elf

That's why nobody likes you

Girls can't even nerd out

[crisp heath]

LET ME BE HORNY FOR FUCK SAKE

[obtuse vault]

teehee

[crisp heath]

it's not like you can stop me

and i'll take it to the big stage once

[obtuse vault]

oh am i just a widdle bastawd? >:3c

[storm jungle]

Random demon during sex wtf

[distant harness]

jannies help

[crisp heath]

i'll be horny with a metal codpiece in front of hundreds of people

[distant harness]

uncontrolled thirst in aisle 5

[crisp heath]

you missed the best part

claudia's reaction like >:/

[storm jungle]

Its a PG13 server im sorry

also that page took too long to load

DFSKJDFKSJ

[crisp heath]

"men, always leaving in the middle to... --looks at writing on hand-- fight demons and shit"

[distant harness]

those tiny faces are fucking killing me dude

[rotund siren]

tot

[final spruce]

I don't think the pic you posted fits sadly

[obtuse vault]

https://tenor.com/view/didnt-ask-last-breath-sans-shush-didnt-ask-bottomt-text-no-one-asked-gif-18428951

[final spruce]

I believe nipples in general are considered NSFW

[obtuse vault]

you leave my female presenting nipples out of this

[final spruce]

I mean I say that because I don't want anybody to get warnings

[rotund siren]

cursed words

[storm jungle]

NO WAIT IT HAS NIPPLES I JUST SAW IT

DELETING

[obtuse vault]

i didnt start it

[obtuse vault]

GET HER ASS GET HER ASS

[final spruce]

Bloody elf

[obtuse vault]

MAN NIPPLE ERASURE

[rotund siren]

Why not the whole person?

[distant harness]

reported

[obtuse vault]

good idea

[distant harness]

[final spruce]

True, put hairy nipples, it should work nicely as censorship

[rotund siren]

also, there were nipples?

[distant harness]

just draw eyes and a mouth on the nipple and call it a chaos mutation

[distant harness]

instantly appropriate for a 40k server

[obtuse vault]

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-goku-balls-crying-sad-rain-gif-18764000

these are the best two gifs i have

[storm jungle]

I hate this

[obtuse vault]

this is your punishment for nipples. im so sorry

iwish i didnt have to hurt you

[open marsh]

What the fuck has been going on in here

[obtuse vault]

punishment

[rotund siren]

I have no idea

I think this is, like, the opposite of penance

you are fulfilling your desire for shitposty memes

[storm jungle]

Mood Kindred-Chaos

[rotund siren]

what

[open marsh]

bonk

[storm jungle]

Silence doggie

sst sssst

[open marsh]

Oy!

:<

[rotund siren]

wow, convict-on-convict violence

[obtuse vault]

🍿

[rotund siren]

Hey, could you pass me some?

[obtuse vault]

yeah i was sharing with u man

[rotund siren]

I'm looking over at general

and it is getting spicy

Thanks!

[obtuse vault]

sure thing pal anytime youd like

[rotund siren]

:)

[remote vortex]

i really should draw more ||worksafe content|| of my inquisitor.

considering she’s investigating a frontier world in the Imperium Nihilus.

and I think the investigation is going to go tits up, the law of the Imperium is not applied on worlds like that, so while they can be safe havens, some part of them or in many cases the whole planet can be as deadly as a death world, on part of the citizens, pirates, or factions that have grown outside of the Imperium’s influence.

Authority doesn’t mean diddly if you’re outside of the aegis of the Imperium.

[dense glen]

I have no art of any of my characters in any game I have ever played.

[plush mason]

so when they say the IG is best at static defence do they mean WW1 style trench warfare?

[crisp heath]

regiment dependent

[buoyant crypt]

did someone say nipples are nsfw

[plush mason]

what exactly is cadia's speciality aside from being the poster boy regiment?

[velvet yarrow]

holding so i have heard

[plush mason]

if only the planet had followed suit

sorry was that to soon?

[rotund siren]

no

I'm pretty sure it's been while

[plush mason]

k

[celest dome]

Standing I heard

[open marsh]

Real quick, excerpt of an Iron Hands dread who was turned into an Abominable Intelligence:

 Nothing came out but a blast of warm, stale air.
 Jathrac sniffed once, nose and forehead wrinkled in confusion. His horror mounted as he turned back to the yawning sarcophagus that had swung open before him. The Dreadnought’s interior contained a mass of wires, a few pitted bone cogs… and nothing else.
 ‘What in the name of Russ?’
 ‘Expediency,’ said the Dreadnought, its vox-tone flat.
 ‘Abomination!’ shouted the Wolf Priest, his plasma pistol whipping round with a whine of recharging power cells.
 Suddenly the vault went pitch black. There was a whirr, a crunch of ceramite, and then silence.```

[median sundial]

Let’s talk about the Dark Mechanicus. Theoretically they have to work with worse tech since the forces of Chaos basically work with the 40k equivalent of stolen hand-me-downs, not only that but they have to live with super-human assholes who have long dropped the niceties. Like imagine a tech priest joins the Dark Mech because he’s spiteful, and some Word Bearer marine tears out the Plasma cores powering his brain’s life support taking the place of his lungs for the hell of it. Years later he’s in complete misery, constantly wheezing and gasping for air because he had to reverse engineer the iron lung just to save himself. It’s a shoddy job; the worst he’s ever done; but he’s too afraid to replace it with something better. And he’s paranoid of every Chaos marine stomping towards him to ask if he can fix their guns.

[rotund siren]

That's why most of them have their own planets

[open marsh]

Not all Dark Mechanicum are Chaos, nor are they all subservient to Chaos Space Marines

[rotund siren]

Yeah

[open marsh]

The books Skitarius and Tech-Priest feature a Dark Mechanicum Forgeworld and the Iron Warriors are trying to take it but have to resort to a long convulted plan ||that ultimately doesnt work||, because the forge world's forces are simply too much for them to take

[rotund siren]

plus they got Hell-Forges, which is sick and also super bad in the same way

[barren tapir]

Dark mechanicus is similar to the normal mech when talking about independence and and governing stuff

They aren't limited to tech stolen, some of them focus on innovation without limits, and others on warp tech

[rotund siren]

mhmm

[barren tapir]

They ally themself with some chaos warlord sometime

[celest dome]

They ally themself to get Battle Data and such that they don't have to take care of it

[potent swift]

There also the ones who go all in on Xenos shinies instead of full Chaos

[median sundial]

Oh so it’s less “oh god I’ll fix your gun please don’t kill me” but more “Yeah so I wanted to work on an AI powered by warp stone but the robo-bible said that was bad so I’m here now. I was agnostic anyway.”

[open marsh]

Essentally, Dark Mechanicum = anything that isnt accepted mechanicus (and its various sects) and is not loyal to the Imperium

[barren tapir]

Yes

There are still some forge worlds enslaved byt CSM or demons, but most of them are just minding their own business and selling their products to the highest bidder

[lethal harness]

Can't wait to see what happens in charadon on metalica, hopefully won't get added to the list of fallen forge worlds

[median sundial]

Daemon world priest: I have to complete this impossible task for my prince, otherwise I die!
Other priest: Oh poor you. Anyway how much should I make this Combi-Plasma gun cost? It hits like a truck but it jams somewhat often and it constantly groans like a constipated bloodletter when it’s hot.

[rotund siren]

Easy, make it cost full price and give them a cheap jam-clearing kit for free

and don't tell them about any of the other problems

[hardy apex]

and add a feature to make it an overcharged grenade with possible fragmentation

imagine, searing bits of plasma heated metal tearing through flesh and armour, if the fragmentation hasn't already been melted by said plasma

[median sundial]

What's the name of that weird race made out of slugs?

[rotund siren]

The rave slugs?

I think @storm jungle knows

[storm jungle]

OH