40k-lore-chat

[crisp heath]

[near wasp]

Oh shit that's right

There are some daemons who can stop time

[crisp heath]

yeah that was to be expected

[vagrant fox]

My favourite daemon

[near wasp]

She's a treat

Just constantly rage baiting that bezerker

[crisp heath]

shit im trying to think of anything else

shit there really isnt any concept that wouldnt work in 40k

almost anything could be implemented in some way

[storm jungle]

Its literally a kitchen sink setting

so yes

[vagrant fox]

You just have to get creative with your excuses

[crisp heath]

what does this term mean im dumbn

[celest dome]

"Anything can be thrown in it"

[storm jungle]

everything is in it

[crisp heath]

ooh

[vagrant fox]

Some things could be harder to implement but considering that Horus and the Emperor had a yugioh battle anything goes

[celest dome]

Cooking magic

As in magic that happen through the medium of cooking or magic that look like it happen like cooking

Well

[near wasp]

Wait wait what

[celest dome]

I guess Fantasy has that with the Ogre

[near wasp]

Explain

[celest dome]

And the Goblin

[vagrant fox]

A card game d-d-d-duel

Always let Abnett cook

[crisp heath]

dude

isnt there a total warhammer 3 faction

that you literally cook things

to buff your armies?

so this already exists

[celest dome]

The Goblin one

But it's not really based on lore

[vagrant fox]

It's how Kugath got all big innit what with Nurgles cauldron of nickelodeon slime

[celest dome]

Paunch

[crisp heath]

i mean maybe if you consider Nurgle's plagues shenanigans as him doing magic food

it counts?

doesnt he have like a cauldron as a relic?

[storm jungle]

The ensuing titanic battle was fought across both the material and immaterial, across time and space and several dimensions simultaneously as the Chaos Gods watched on with glee and excitement. Fully empowered by The Four, Horus was able to match and then surpass the Emperor's own psychic might. What began as a physical contest of sword and maul escalated into a clash across time as they found themselves assailing one another on Cthonia, ancient Terra, Ullanor, Gorro, and even future Cadia. Horus and the Emperor began to attack one another in their own memories, and finally the battle manifested as a card game with the Imperial Tarot. Horus utilized his own deck he had been preparing for this, with cards whose creation was aided by the Chaos Gods. At the end of the duel the Emperor played his ultimate card, Death, but Horus countered with The Despoiler. The Emperor was defeated in the metaphysical, and in the material realm he was finally overwhelmed by Horus' barrage of attacks and collapsed.[27b]

entire thing is on the siege of terra lexi page

[near wasp]

No fucking way

[misty vector]

Huh weird

[vagrant fox]

It's so goofy

[near wasp]

Tts fucking predicted this

[storm jungle]

I mean no they didnt

they just have a scene with a card game

lol

[storm jungle]

This is like, the tip of the iceberg

Abnett is such a fucking goofball

no idea how anyone could take this shit seriously lmao

[misty vector]

He sure is

Like that group of mechanical pigeons in ravenor 2

[vagrant fox]

Peak writing, similar to greek tragedies

[near wasp]

Let me live in my delusional state a bit longer

[storm jungle]

also

theres a part where horus blows someone up by shooting a laser beam from the eye on his chest

truly cinema

[vagrant fox]

He grabs Sanguinius at the speed of darkness

[misty vector]

His eye is down there you say

[storm jungle]

also using the "8th dimension"

whatever the fuck that means

[vagrant fox]

It's so fucking goofy I love it all

[near wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-ork-railgun-let-me-shoot-my-railgun-gif-9874737770595198769

[misty vector]

Hes so ahead of everything

[vagrant fox]

Years of primarch horusy wank and that's the end and the death

Genuinely love it

[crisp heath]

i

kinda want to

refuse this happened

[misty vector]

Also im afraid to ask at this point

[crisp heath]

at all

[misty vector]

But who is john grammaticus

[storm jungle]

Uh

[vagrant fox]

Some moron

[storm jungle]

basiclaly a human deviantart OC side character

hold on

[languid meadow]

Saying the speed of darkness just flashed an 11 year old Vsauce video in my head

https://youtu.be/JTvcpdfGUtQ?si=IyH1627vGWcxKVDZ

[vagrant fox]

Vsauce predicted the showdown

[misty vector]

Abnett made him up right?

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/John_Grammaticus

This is the best summary you can get, the page isnt too long and worth a read

the general problem the fandom has with him is just hes everywhere acting like a Ryan Reynolds character, his entire plot/concept is dumb as hell.

But again read it yourself first

[vagrant fox]

Member of the argonauts
Always let Abnett cook

[storm jungle]

Yeah it would be better if he can burn down the kitchen, save us the trouble

[misty vector]

The flock of mechanical pigeons that flayed people in ravenor 2, i cant get over that

Its so out of nowhere

[vagrant fox]

How he ended the siege like a god damn sitcom has earned him my eternal love

[storm jungle]

no

[vagrant fox]

you're just turkpilled you've never even been close to a turkish delight

[misty vector]

So he just became a perpetual

And hes like the star trek translator device

[storm jungle]

Pretty much yeah

you can see the mary sue ooze leaking lmao

[misty vector]

Mary sue is a silly term but yeah i see what you mean

[vagrant fox]

It's not very interesting

[misty vector]

From what im seeing hes kinda like “i added my oc into this is it noticeable”

[near wasp]

I saw the link said grammitis and so I'm not clicking it

At best its a virus at worse it'll take me to the wiki page for the worst heresy character

[storm jungle]

Thats... thats literally what a mary sue is

[near wasp]

No

That's a self insert

A Mary sue is a character that doesn't have any flaws

[storm jungle]

Yeah, which is most self inserts

lmao

[near wasp]

I mean yeah there a lot of cross over but they arnt always the same thig

[storm jungle]

Grammaticunt fits into it perfectly considering hes literally in about every important plot thread, point, location and also just literally ends up saving the galaxy alongside his best friend Ollanius

also now is solely responsible for making sure the timeloop of Horus being defeated always works

because.... why not

[near wasp]

I hope we get to watch grammaticus die horrifying during the scouting

[storm jungle]

he's stuck in a timeloop i dont think we'll see him again

but you dont know with abnett lol

Ill legit laugh if he come sback

[misty vector]

Mary sue is silly bc every character driven narrative has plot armor, and its a term that right wing grifters love to use to talk about pretty much any female character

[near wasp]

What are you smoking

If it's a guy character it's called a Gary sue... There's a term for males too just most people use Mary sue because of the character Mary sue from a Star Trek paraody

[storm jungle]

Mary sue has been used in fiction thousands of tons before rightwingers adopted it

[queen laurel]

The term for a guy version is a Gary stu by the way but they're the same concept, a flawless character that doesn't have anything wrong with what they can do

[storm jungle]

^

Mary just gets used more because its kinda the "default" form people opt to

[queen laurel]

Yeah They don't bother with gender differences if it gets the point across

It's a character that is completely flawless and has no flaws

And they can do everything perfectly

[rocky gale]

https://tenor.com/view/leslie-knope-amy-poehler-the-office-thats-me-point-to-self-gif-15904501

[misty vector]

I def associate it with the youtube drama tubers

Bc they use it for stuff like rey and korra

Sullied the term

[near wasp]

Korras not but rey....

[storm jungle]

I mean

im pretty sure we are past that

they just call it "woke" now lmao

[rocky gale]

Yea the good old YouTuber drama, because Korra is simultaneously a Mary Sue who is too perfect and wins everything without effort and also the worst Avatar because she's so weak and never wins.

[misty vector]

None of the star wars main characters are particularly well written

[celest dome]

Tbh, Rey didn't start and mostly didn't act as a Mary Sue.
It is just that the writing the actors were given was outright trash

[storm jungle]

its funny because the show definitely has actual downsides that isnt the main character

[celest dome]

Luke is tbh a big Gary stue in comparison

[storm jungle]

(i.e stop using shitty CGI raaagh)

[near wasp]

Korra is a flawed character

[misty vector]

Aang learns 3 elements in half a years vs korra who learns 3 in like 12 years

[rocky gale]

People calling Korra a Homie hopper, when she dates two people over the course of 5 years

[valid needle]

Doesn’t fit my agenda so it must be woke

[untold hawk]

is there a reason why space marines arent sent to the missions in darktide? wouldnt it be faster if they did it

[young pecan]

To an extent, but I think you can reach a very low amount of obvious plot armor by being a good writer

[young pecan]

Because they suck

[rocky gale]

There aren't any around

[near wasp]

Because atoma isn't that fucked yet

[young pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/reaction-meme-stan-twt-funny-tomatoes-throw-tomatoes-gif-7613110727780945965

[rocky gale]

Space Marines probably haven't even realised shits going on in Atoma yet

[young pecan]

no marines in MY darktide

[untold hawk]

cant they keep like, idk, a single unit for assignments like these?

[storm jungle]

They arent really around

[rocky gale]

It's a big galaxy

[storm jungle]

^

same reason you can say they arent helping any random planet thats like Atoma rn

[young pecan]

Also not every problem requires marines, even big problems don't require marines

[rocky gale]

They do keep units around for things like this, but things like this are happening all across the Imperium

[storm jungle]

^

[young pecan]

So either a jurisdiction thing or an accessibility thing

[vagrant fox]

There's more important places to be with the galaxy goatse'd in half

[storm jungle]

its not even that

[near wasp]

Also atoma can handle itself for one only one hive has fallen

[storm jungle]

Marines show up where they want

and accept help requests they want

they work like mercenary-monks

[young pecan]

I also imagine marines inserting themselves would make Grendyl a little spooked depending on the chapter, since he's seemingly at least slightly heretical

[storm jungle]

I mean

they got no idea what we are even doing and most Chapters arent that nosy

lol

[young pecan]

Fair

I'm sure he'd still be happy without them though

[untold hawk]

oh ok, i thought the 40k future had incompetent people in power or something

[young pecan]

And less happy with them

[storm jungle]

I mean they do

[rocky gale]

It does yea

[vagrant fox]

Doesn't matter for an inquisitor unless he decides to meddle in space marine affairs

[storm jungle]

everyone is just stretched thin lol

[untold hawk]

yeah ok, makes sense

[storm jungle]

basically uh

its like how in a country cops cant answer all the crime calls

or like gotta go up a mountain because they got some report of suspicious activity

its kinda asking a lot + they cant be assed

now do that but across the entire galaxy lol

[untold hawk]

ohh ok

there are a lot of incompetant cops tho but i get ur metaphor

[vagrant fox]

Yeah there's like 6 cops where I live and they don't deal with minor issues because they're spread over a large area. Same thing

[rocky gale]

Yea like there might be hundreds of thousands of Space Marines but there's millions of worlds needing their help

[storm jungle]

Yeah marines got even more autonomy too

like a Chapter could literally just not answer a call for aid because they dont want to lmao

while a more heroic chapter can spread themselves thin trying to help everyone etc

[rocky gale]

Or they have their own area they've designated as their territory and won't help planets outside their sector unless forced to

[storm jungle]

Yeah that too

at the end of the day entirely depends on the Chapter

[near wasp]

Oaths as well. Atoma might just be in an area where no Marines are around or have sworn oaths

[celest dome]

It also doesn't produce SM stuff, so they're less interested per se

[rose thorn]

Hey what DW gravis option for kilkteams was bad again?

I can’t remember if it was breacher or hoard slayer

[rocky gale]

Did somebody say...... BREACHERS!!!!!!!!

Lets fucking go, it's Breacher time

[valid needle]

https://tenor.com/view/gohan-its-so-peak-gohan-crying-gohan-its-so-peak-peak-gif-11211568239007237362

Now let’s see it in Dark Angels Legion colours

[near wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/rogal-dorn-no-warhammer-warhammer40k-robot-gif-17117864

[shadow plover]

Heavily contemplating getting the breacher x cataphractii set this weekend

I do have a SHIT TON of marines to do already but I still want those

[rocky gale]

I already preordered it through my sneaky link

[shadow plover]

only thing that's kinda holding me back is the leviathan because I already have one awaiting to be built

and they're a pain to include in the army list if you want many of them

[rocky gale]

I'm gonna be using them for 40k CSM

[shadow plover]

[rocky gale]

https://tenor.com/view/the-sopranos-tony-soprano-wink-gif-22817220

[valid needle]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-shia-la-beouf-flame-gif-4445204

I need to get some for my heresy stuff

[shadow plover]

[valid needle]

Just got Lion, Azrael, Belial, Sammael and Asmodai for my 40K army for Christmas

[near wasp]

Dark angels simp

I just want a zabriel model or something

[valid needle]

I love it

https://tenor.com/view/the-batman-face-nut-angry-gif-25106740

[valid needle]

Inner circle companion is basically him

[lament shoal]

On the subject of breachers I'll definitely be picking up these guys someday

[valid needle]

Apparently he is the one with the banner

Kai is meant to be the front swordsman

I am a sucker for big evil oiled up men in black or dark green armour

[urban spire]

on the mary sue stuff earlier: a mary sue is specifically a fanfic archetype, and it's not just someone perfect, it's someone inserting a perfect character who is so good and everyone loves them until finally they are so good they have to die and then everyone mourns them

[near wasp]

I just saw it I lowkey want ot

Its be a full da army too

[valid needle]

Yeah apparently it’s zab, kai and aphkar? Whatever his name.

Lohoc may be getting his own model

[near wasp]

Lochoc needs his own tbh

[valid needle]

I think something will be revealed about his real identity next edition

[urban spire]

using mary sue to describe a character outside of fanfic is bad form since that kinda use is just poorly defined shorthand, it's criticism without having to explain what is actually disliked

ironically it's lazy writing

[near wasp]

I think he might be a person close to luthur but I doubt he's luthur himself

[valid needle]

I am thinking it’s Zahariel

Cypher is Corswain like it’s no doubt

[rocky gale]

Ye the HH marines will be my 40k CSM faction, The Forgiven.

[valid needle]

There was only two people high enough to warrant a fake name and not showing your face and it was Zahariel and Merir and I don’t think Merir will ever turn loyalist again.

And Luther of course but it would be stupid if it’s Luther

[near wasp]

Luthurs mind broken

[valid needle]

Got more chance Perturabo turning loyalist than Merir, he was a professional hater.

[crystal forum]

how is luther still alive in 40k

like what more does he have to contribute

[valid needle]

Yeah but remember what they said about his voice sounds like his throat was cut. Luther’s never was afaik. It would make sense if Zahariel lost the duel with Corswain, Corswain cut his throat and inherited Lord cypher before they both got sucked into the warp.

[valid needle]

The Dark Angels kept him in stasis and regularly tortured him.

He was woken to meet every SGM

[crystal forum]

yeah i know how

im asking why

[near wasp]

Because gw

[vagrant fox]

but, but you asked how

[valid needle]

He’s the arch traitor. He was kept alive to face eternal torture for his treason

[crystal forum]

what does he have to give to the script

[vagrant fox]

to tie in horusyslop into 40k

[crystal forum]

his entire story is just HH stuff

his story ended with the end of HH

[valid needle]

But I think his escape will lead to a Lion and Zabriel vs Luther and Merir final battle

[surreal nest]

People would lose their minds if Rey did what Luke did to the deathstar

[rocky gale]

Does he have any story in 40k, is he not more of a plot device.

Like they wake him up to poke him with a pointy stick, then put him back on ice

[vagrant fox]

until he escaped

[rocky gale]

Oh didn't realise he'd escaped

[storm jungle]

Hes barely a character in 40k

dont listen to these gooners and goonettes

[crystal forum]

he's tied to lion's origin story

[storm jungle]

so is about 100000 other characters for their own plotlines

[crystal forum]

and has stuff to do during dark angel's HH events

but after their planet blew up he had literally nothing

[crystal forum]

he should have just died then and there

[storm jungle]

We gotta milk more models

more space marine releases please waiter

[near wasp]

Something something star killer base

[rocky gale]

Yea we've got to get our Luthor the Redeemed, model

[urban spire]

luke shot critters with his atmospheric craft! he shouldn't be able to fly in space!

also how did indiana jones learn to fly a german attack plane???

[crystal forum]

dan abnet killed off garviel loken because his story was over apparently

[urban spire]

shouts out to his dad not knowing how to use the gun tho

[rocky gale]

Because Han Solo can fly anything

[crystal forum]

he prob learned how to fly when he was president of the US

[surreal nest]

Rey was never in the aerial assault

[near wasp]

She's still helped destroy it

[crystal forum]

why are you guys talking about the new series unironically

[near wasp]

I'm bored

[storm jungle]

"Son, im sorry. They got us."

Literally fucking destroyed the plane's tail himself

lmao

[crystal forum]

anyways isn't andor getting a new season

[storm jungle]

no lol

Andor is done

[crystal forum]

i heard something about that

prob just fan bullshit

[spring cairn]

andor was the only good sw thing

[storm jungle]

the show literally fucking ends before Cassian goes off to Rogue One

[near wasp]

I just don't like Rey and the sequals. I think kylo was fine. And I like most the other stuff Disney has done with starwars

[rocky gale]

It literally ends before Rogue One starts

[spring cairn]

well

time to pack it up

[valid needle]

Because he only just escaped imprisonment 💀

[spring cairn]

i watched it recently

[storm jungle]

Barely a character

slop slop sloppity slop

[valid needle]

Give him time Dilara

I love First Legion slop

[rocky gale]

Andor Season 3 will reveal that they all actually survived Rogue One

[languid meadow]

we dont wait here we want character development NOW

[crystal forum]

i love how depressing andor shows the empire like it's the first fucking SW story that doesn't go cartoonishly evil with them

[storm jungle]

Its the same with me for Last of Us 2, people hate Abby because shes a buff woman, I hate Abby because shes a boring and shitty character.

We're not the same.

[spring cairn]

are they doing a s3 ?

[rocky gale]

Yea they aren't cartoon evil, they are legit insidious evil

[storm jungle]

Literal public executions, cultural identity erasure, CIA-tier torture, etc

its legit horrific

[crystal forum]

bureaucratic evil i'd call it

[storm jungle]

its all kinds of fascist evil

[spring cairn]

i thought they were done with andor

[storm jungle]

we see the bureucratic side, political side, and war side

[crystal forum]

you get jailed for being at the wrong place at the wrong time

and worked to death

[storm jungle]

Im glad that isnt the case anymore.

Right.

[languid meadow]

Andor S3 is rogue one

go watch it

[spring cairn]

i already watched rogue one

[languid meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/krennic-liar-star-wars-star-wars-liar-star-wars-krennic-gif-27558626

[spring cairn]

it was the only sw thing i enjoyed before andor

but i liked andor more

[rocky gale]

Slowly worming their way into society, eroding it's cultural foundations and replacing them with it's own institutions designed to keep people repressed. A process that crawls so slowly most people don't even notice until it's already too late.

[storm jungle]

I love wahat they do on the scottish planet

you'd expect them to kill the natives

no, they just open bars and other recreational stuff to distract them

thus erasing their culture

and stop them from venerating their old ways

its fucked up

[spring cairn]

anyone seen avatar 2 and 3 ?

[crystal forum]

you see it a lot on the planet with the yearly meteor shower ritual that got so ruined that barely anybody was doing it anymore

[spring cairn]

is it worth my precious time that's very limited

[storm jungle]

Just said that, gay message 👎

[rocky gale]

Yea all while under the guise of "allowing" and "supporting" the festival

[crystal forum]

like the way they describe slowly eroding that tradition until nobody gave a shit anymore about their own culture

[storm jungle]

Its fun but a long sitting lol, just turn your brain off

[storm jungle]

Just said that, gay message 2x 👎

[spring cairn]

so it's fun slop ?

[near wasp]

Exactly man sometimes a character just sucks.

[storm jungle]

Correct

[crystal forum]

it's insidious shit that colonial powers did IRL

[spring cairn]

mmm

i knew ppl only watched those movies cuz the aliens were hot

[storm jungle]

Oh man

the new fire goth chick is great

[rocky gale]

They are hot though

[storm jungle]

id recommend it for her alone lol

[spring cairn]

yeah i mean

they are

[near wasp]

I heard the writing for Lou2 just fell off

[vagrant fox]

the nefarious hollywood influence 💯

[languid meadow]

people say avatar has no cultural impact then go see the movie and watch it hit the highest earning triology of all time

[near wasp]

Who from what

[opaque coyote]

Tbf I would count that as cartoonishly evil

[opaque coyote]

I think the original SW movies literally had torture in it anyways

[languid meadow]

yes Vader tortures his own daughter lmao

[opaque coyote]

Only thing Avatar (not the bald kid one) is good for

[near wasp]

Ok ok I get it

[crystal forum]

isn't that the idea of a trophy wife

[languid meadow]

it has also has sexual slavery

[crystal forum]

and still very racist

[storm jungle]

Yea

[spring cairn]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1143577951082913824/1452671717750214656/shitposting-daily-because-i-am-incredibly-bored-v0-lvaq9tzarn8g1.png?ex=694fef76&is=694e9df6&hm=76af22c88a582a8d49cf0e43da60baf4c74fee709657ac800a6f80abe2f81859&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=565&height=803

[storm jungle]

"cartoonishly evil" people did that shit IRL you dingus

lol

[spring cairn]

do ppl think that unironically

[languid meadow]

Pretty sure quarich genuinely loves her but I could be wrong my brain has been wiped from substance abuse the past 2 days

[spring cairn]

i thought it was just that 1 meme

[near wasp]

[crystal forum]

cartoonish evil is the star wars 7 movie opening with stormtroopers just massacring a village for no reason

[opaque coyote]

Burning down an orphanage is cartoonishly evil and yet that has been done plenty of times irl

[languid meadow]

Dude is so fucking happy lmfao

[opaque coyote]

A lot of things that ARE cartoonishly evil are done IRL

[storm jungle]

I literally just said that

bro

can someone like

drop a fridge on this guy's head

[outer wave]

You can tell he's gonna get some more blue alien pussy later on after the raids

[opaque coyote]

Cartoonishly evil just means overwhelmingly evil atp

[opaque coyote]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/G77UqfxXgAAe04A.gif

[crystal forum]

anyways andor was good so we won't get any good SW show for another 10 years

[storm jungle]

[crystal forum]

as the cycle goes

[spring cairn]

rogue one

andor

now it's over forever

forget sw

[opaque coyote]

No wonder the sequel movies were so dog shit.

The Vader comics were in circulation and those were goated

[crystal forum]

i wish i could

[spring cairn]

i tried really hard at one point in my life

[rocky gale]

We've got to wait and see how the Ryan Gosling Star Wars turns out

[spring cairn]

i used to be obsessed with it

[near wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/golf-smash-watermelon-melon-slow-motion-gif-4470082

[storm jungle]

You cant really forget SW

[crystal forum]

you had a right to be obsessed with clone wars era star wars

[spring cairn]

i was

[storm jungle]

its one of the biggst cultural cornerstones of the human media

[near wasp]

The Vader comics are peak

[crystal forum]

which is like late 90's early 2010's

[spring cairn]

shit was my childhood

[storm jungle]

also like

[rocky gale]

Warlord era Star Wars, peak (Except all the parts which sucked)

[storm jungle]

you can literally enjoy SW while ignoring the shit Disney makes

lmao

https://tenor.com/view/grevious-negotiator-gif-25785422

engage the prequel memes posting chat

[crystal forum]

thats just enjoying old stuff though

[storm jungle]

Not really

[opaque coyote]

The original Star Wars movie basically released in a time where Scifi was boringly depressing.

Seriously watch any 70's scifi stuff and it's either depressing or boring. Sometimes both.

[storm jungle]

Yes

[opaque coyote]

That's why it revolutionized like

Everything

[spring cairn]

i wish there was more prequel stuff

but like

good

[languid meadow]

all sequel content is pretty fucking weak (EU and new canon) but the only thing that is consistently good between the two is Thrawn lmfao

[opaque coyote]

I wish there was more stuff during things like the Sith empire

More ancient stories basically

[crystal forum]

i disagree heavily. sci fi was just more theatrical if you know what i mean

[spring cairn]

like u can't tell me the CW and the separatists isn't the coolest thing conceptually

[sacred bluff]

animated SW is peak: Rebels, Clone Wars, Bad batch

[opaque coyote]

Tbf the Clone Wars was originally the "spaghetti incident". Literally just an offhand mention in the originals turned into its own thing

[spring cairn]

i haven't watched Bad batch

considering

[opaque coyote]

Which I always found fascinating

[sacred bluff]

Thrawn is the best written and developed character

He has 3 trilogies

[near wasp]

Thrawns got full novels

[languid meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/thrawn-enlightening-star-wars-star-wars-rebels-gif-18530712

Both his EU and canon version

so good

[opaque coyote]

So good that unlike a lot of extended universe content, Thrawn was dug up by Disney and used

[languid meadow]

love the Chiss

[crystal forum]

have you ever watched THX 1138. it's the other george lucas movie

his previous sci fi movie before star wars

i think it's a lot more typical of an experimental sci fi movie of the time

[rocky gale]

I enjoyed him in Rebels, just wins every encounter, everything always goes his way and is only beaten because of literally inexplicable intervention that he never could have anticipated.

[crystal forum]

it's also not a very good movie all things considered

[spring cairn]

that's a very bad movie name

[opaque coyote]

"You might have logic and intelligence but there is one thing you can't account for.

Dumb luck and being dumb!"

[spring cairn]

i don't know anything about it but the title alone blows

[opaque coyote]

[crystal forum]

the movie is even harder to follow than the name

[languid meadow]

I like how he just wins in Ashoka

[opaque coyote]

Sounds about right.

[spring cairn]

it's like a brand name

[languid meadow]

it's great

[crystal forum]

actually that's spot on. that's an element of the movie

[opaque coyote]

I do like the period between the sequels and the originals.

When the Empire is a dying territory. That's also what fascinated me about mandalorian before it fell off hard

[crystal forum]

one of its main elements is mindless consumerism

[rocky gale]

"You may have planned for every contingence, but did you plan on the sudden arrival of space whales?"

"What the fuck is a Space Wha...LOUD SPACE WHALE NOISES"

[opaque coyote]

Like of course such a big empire wouldn't fall completely in an afternoon

[spring cairn]

yeah I study literature, i'm great at analysis and such

[languid meadow]

I liked some of S3 a lot but a lot of it was also ass

[spring cairn]

thx u thx u

[languid meadow]

Imperial super commandos coming back is kind of cool but also like

why

the doc brown separatist episode is cool but that's because seeing the droids in live action after so long is nice

[arctic talon]

Filloni likes mandalorians

Next question

[languid meadow]

I mean

they're cool but it's not just Filloni

[opaque coyote]

Like genuinely, my autism for some reason has me fascinated with things like

The fall of the Nazi empire. It is morbidly interesting for me.

The last dying gasp of a cruel fascist empire built on the promise of greatness and purity.

Now that's what I want to see more of in general

[languid meadow]

look at SWTOR

[arctic talon]

I’m aware

Everyone loves Mandos

[rocky gale]

Yea it was a huge part I enjoyed about the Legends, the Warlord era where basically every Officer of high enough rank declared themselves the successor of the Empire or overlord of their own sector.

[arctic talon]

lol

[valid needle]

What one night in the tent do to a mf

[languid meadow]

ANOTHER 5 MANDO EXPANSIONS

[opaque coyote]

My controversial opinion is that Disney decanonizing Legends as a whole is acceptable.

Because gonna be honest here, it was a mess. A very interesting and fascinating mess.

But still a mess.

Like if Palpatine could shoot lightning across the fucking planet. How in the fuck did he die like that LMAO

[arctic talon]

Also the new Old republic era Star Wars game is canon

To Disney Star Wars

lol

Which is gona be interesting

Bcs you could just slot the old republic games into current Star Wars lore with 0 issue

[spring cairn]

i mean they making a new game

[arctic talon]

Based on my understanding

[rocky gale]

Yea, like as much as I love the Warlords era, so much of it is incredibly dumb

[opaque coyote]

I still don't think that they should've thrown it away as a whole, but starting a new canon was the correct choice in my opinion

Too bad it's somehow even more stupid sequel wise

[crystal forum]

im interested in the logistics of a literal dying country, something we have seen very rarely in history. at what point does the train conductor not give up on his daily back and forths between bombed out factories and front lines that are in berlin itself?

[opaque coyote]

Seriously they couldn't even make new designs for the soldiers

They just used stormtroopers again

[crystal forum]

ever heard of the berlin flak towers

[opaque coyote]

Yes their designs look good but fuck me DO SOMETHING EL-

[arctic talon]

Isn’t there the

Three eyed dude

[opaque coyote]

Not that in particular.

[arctic talon]

I have a friend who really likes Star Wars lore but hates both Disney canon and Legends overall 💀

[spring cairn]

kinda me ig

same boat

[arctic talon]

I get to hear his rants

Sometimes

[spring cairn]

lucky

[opaque coyote]

It is genuinely fascinating on seeing people's limits.

A lot of Nazi soldiers stayed around mainly because of fear.

Propaganda + actual knowledge of what the soviet's would do to them. And to be fair...

They weren't completely off in some cases.

[languid meadow]

the new old repub game also canonfies the first ones (the sith ship being the exact design as those ones)

[spring cairn]

croissant ships

[opaque coyote]

Disney does add some good shit, as much of a pain as it is to say this.

Again, the Darth Vader comics is a must read. It is genuinely fascinating to see Vader's psychology.

[crystal forum]

flak towers were giant bunkers that germany built during the last months of the war. they were supposed to provide cover from the non stop allied bombing and ended up being used as refuge by the german civilians in the cities close to them. They were so sturdy that some flak towers kept fighting even after the german surrender because communications were all cut off. Not to mention a lot of them didn't want to surrender to the soviets

[arctic talon]

All I know is he trips balls trying to make a lightsaber crystal evil

[spring cairn]

not just cover

[arctic talon]

And it shows him being not evil

[opaque coyote]

The mind of a broken hero turned into an enforcer of everything he would've hated

[spring cairn]

they hosted AA defences

[storm jungle]

Yapper 🗣️

[opaque coyote]

Yeah, the way that the sith put the kyber crystal under their control is perfect.

The crystal basically tried to fix him and Vader said "no fuck off"

[rocky gale]

Like you've got amazing stuff with Zsinj, Maldrood, Teradoc, Delvardus and Kaine. But then you've also got fucking Trioculus and Hissa

[languid meadow]

Honestly wouldn't be surprised if this game takes place during the three centuries between kotor and swtor

[crystal forum]

a single flak tower was so unkillable that the soviet army couldn't even defeat it with multiple tank battalions so they just ended up going around them

that was just one example though

[opaque coyote]

Genuinely even to this day, it seems fucking hard to break through

That is a modern day fortress

[crystal forum]

even after the war some flak towers were too tough to demolish so they were made into cellphone towers

berlin still has a couple

[arctic talon]

How much rebar did they use lmao

[spring cairn]

a lotttt

[rocky gale]

In Legends the collapse of the Empire was more like the collapse of the Qing Dynasty, rather than the Nazis.

[arctic talon]

I love the Chinese warlord era

[rocky gale]

Peak

[arctic talon]

Shit is so funny(and awful

[opaque coyote]

Also a valid way for it to break apart tbh. A lot of officers and such were in it for themselves after all

[arctic talon]

But still

[rocky gale]

The fucking Dogmeat general

[crystal forum]

anyways the reason flak towers fascinate me is because i'm 100% sure that everybody who was involved in their construction, from design to pouring the concrete, knew that they would be pointless

so why did they still do it

[arctic talon]

https://tenor.com/view/mao-zedong-china-gif-20663734

[opaque coyote]

His poems are clearly masterful

[arctic talon]

Chinese warlord era

Funniest period in modern Chinese history

[rocky gale]

"You tell me to do this, he tell me to do that, fuck your mother" a poetic master

[opaque coyote]

https://youtu.be/B30Z_U-wBKQ?si=lm0Tzu5T1-53UFe3

[arctic talon]

If I don’t win I’ll come back in a coffin

comes back smoking a cigar in a coffin

💀

[opaque coyote]

Tbf he is a man of his word in that regard

Also

[rocky gale]

Oh wait sorry I left out a line

"You tell me to do this,
He tells me to do that.
You're all bastards,
Go fuck your mother."

[arctic talon]

Do you know his other nickname

[opaque coyote]

"You tell me to do this, he tells me to do that."

"You are all bastards, go fuck your mother."

[arctic talon]

The three don’t knows

[opaque coyote]

Fuck you did it before me

Extremely relatable

[crystal forum]

imagine a history where one of the countless warlords won instead of mao

[opaque coyote]

The one that tells how big of a cock he had?

[rocky gale]

Or General 86

[arctic talon]

Doesn’t know how much money he has
Doesn’t know how many soldiers he has other his command
Doesn’t know how many women he’s had sex with

[opaque coyote]

I forgot the exact name

[rocky gale]

General 86 because his penis was the length of 86 silver dollars stacked ontop of eachother

[arctic talon]

The 2 big warlord bodies by the end of it were the nationalists and communists tbf

Both self proclaimed socialists btw

💀

The nationalists were def not socialist

lol

[opaque coyote]

"Untitled"

"Someone asks me how many women I have. I really don't know either.

"Yesterday, a boy called me 'dad'. I have no idea who his mother is."

[crystal forum]

nazis were self described socialist

[arctic talon]

Beyond some policies

[spring cairn]

every1 was a socialist at the time

it was a popular term

[opaque coyote]

Tbf it was originally basically just for PR by a member a long time ago.

And Hitler kinda just kept the name since that's what his party was known as.

Which must have been severely awkward for him

[arctic talon]

I think if we hooked up Sun Yat Sen to a generator

[opaque coyote]

[spring cairn]

i mean they were in name only

[arctic talon]

He’d be a perpetual motion machine

lol

[crystal forum]

you can call yourself literally anything

doesn't mean you are

[arctic talon]

Sun Yat Sen was prolly the last chance China had in the warlord era

[opaque coyote]

Genuinely poor bastard.

He really tried

[spring cairn]

yes

[arctic talon]

For a somewhat stable and peaceful reunification

Then he died

[rocky gale]

Pretty sure Hitler literally wrote about using the Socialist name and red as a colour to confuse political opponents to their goals

[arctic talon]

💀

[opaque coyote]

He really fucking tried

[spring cairn]

it was just used a lot

[arctic talon]

And Chiang Kai Shek took over

[celest dome]

They only used it cause Social groups were popular before the 2nd War and it led to many workers going to their meeting before really knowing what they were up to

[arctic talon]

lol

[spring cairn]

any "people" focused movement was labelled socialist

[crystal forum]

socialism was pretty big in germany prior to hitler's rise to power so he wanted to get the support of the population

[spring cairn]

it was trendy

[opaque coyote]

Sun's life is a tragedy in general, and he deserves to be called a hero in spite of that.

Although please don't put Mao's picture next to him I swear to God CCP YOU BETTER N-

YOU MOTHER FUCKERS

[crystal forum]

because surprise surprise socialism becomes popular when times are rough

[opaque coyote]

Extreme anti-socialists are the greatest PR for socialists

"THEY'RE GONNA MAKE NEW YORK A GAY COMMUNIST ENCLAVE!"

Sounds great

[arctic talon]

Both Chiang Kai Shek and Sun Yat Sen are national heros in China now btw

💀

[crystal forum]

somebody tell this to modern day right wing liberals

[opaque coyote]

Maybe I can actually live there

[arctic talon]

Don’t ask why

The CCP did this

I don’t fucking know lol

Sun Yat Sen I can see

[opaque coyote]

Again, only Sun deserves it

[arctic talon]

Chiang?

💀

[opaque coyote]

And mao asw

Don't forget Mao

I think they even put Sun's picture next to Mao

[arctic talon]

Well

Mao it’s obvious why he’s a national hero

Under the CCP

[opaque coyote]

Again, perpetual motion machine with how much Sun spins at his grave

[arctic talon]

Chiang is absurd

lol

“I’d rather kill a thousand innocent people then let 1 communist live”

[opaque coyote]

Great Leap Forward.

They can't even fucking leap, they're dying of hunger.

[near wasp]

In my latest ck3 run I'm playing as tiawan and using names of communist dictators as my rulers

[arctic talon]

30% wrong 70% correct

Smh

Do not go against party policy

[surreal nest]

And Luke survived a dogfight with anakin and blew up the deathstar with one bomb

[lament shoal]

Met this fucking creature in fallout 76 the other day

[crystal forum]

can i just bitch about how the west also had its own great leap called the industrial revolution and it sucked a lot too

[near wasp]

That's a power armor glitch

[crystal forum]

and idk why people act like it was a uniquely chinese thing

[arctic talon]

The Great Leap Forward wasn’t an Industrial Revolution though

lol

[opaque coyote]

Again, the Death Star Engineer wasn't as fault.

It's the equivalent of having a crack in the castle, but then some asshole wizard sticks a fucking nuke inside of it

[crystal forum]

it's literally a move from agrarian base to industrial

wolf it is literally an industrial revolution

[surreal nest]

Should have wizard proofed it!

[near wasp]

Star killer was bigger than the death star they had to destroy it slightly differently

[opaque coyote]

Tbf the industrial part kinda failed for China during that period.

Many of the things made were useless

[arctic talon]

The industrial part failed and they purged all the “intellectuals” beforehand

[surreal nest]

Your honor! Relevance!

[arctic talon]

It was a stupid idea from Mao to do it then

[opaque coyote]

I wouldn't call it an industrial revolution

[arctic talon]

Along with other policies

[near wasp]

The only reason the USSR had any good industrialization was because we sent the architect of Detroit

[opaque coyote]

If it didn't actually did the revolution or the industrial part

[crystal forum]

wdym it failed though

[arctic talon]

It was an attempted one to fully industrialize the country

[crystal forum]

like how can we say it failed when we look at china today

[arctic talon]

It just failed, it accomplished some of its goals

[arctic talon]

This is mostly Deng

Tbf

[near wasp]

Who are you gonna appeal to

[arctic talon]

Deng did far more to industrialize and modernize China then Mao

[crystal forum]

the soviet union went through the exact same shit when stalin came to power

[opaque coyote]

Many of the products used, such as the steel, were useless.

Deng actually did it successfully. Mao just failed horribly

[arctic talon]

Mao did get some proper industrialization in before he died

But there’s a reason the Great Leap Forward is included by the CCP as part of their 30% wrong

[opaque coyote]

The steel actually was useable for the Soviet union so it was arguably more successful despite being equally as cruel

[arctic talon]

That Mao did

[crystal forum]

i think when you look at china before vs after mao he did what he intended to for the most part

[arctic talon]

He did

[crystal forum]

also im not saying any if it was justified

[arctic talon]

But the Great Leap Forward is considered a failure by the Chinese government

As in the CCP

So I think it’s safe to call it a fuck up

[opaque coyote]

I would say the Great Leap Forward was an attempted industrial revolution.

It just failed.

Mostly at least

[arctic talon]

It worked partially

It failed outside of any sort of major city

[crystal forum]

people suffered in the west too when the world shifted to industrial bases

[opaque coyote]

Yeah I would call that a failure

[arctic talon]

Yes

[crystal forum]

i think the problem was more about the concept of industrialization to begin with

[arctic talon]

I’m not saying that’s not the case

lol

Anyways Deng is a major reason why China is the way it is nowadays in terms of economic and industrial stuff

[opaque coyote]

True.

There is one problem though.

Most of the products produced during the Great Leap Forward outright were useless.

The steel? Useless pig iron because it was made out of people giving their pots and pans up.

[crystal forum]

i just see a lot of bullshit about how it's specifically because china did it that it's bad

[arctic talon]

Along with the so called “reformers” in the party during Mao’s era

Which Mao hated

But yknow

Mao hated a lot of people

Prolly why he got ousted into a figurehead position primarily

[opaque coyote]

It's not that it was cruel that it was failure. It was also the fact that the things produced didn't work a lot of the times

[arctic talon]

With a ton of soft power

[crystal forum]

but that last part makes sense though!!!

recycling metal was done extensively even after WW2

look at the UK

[near wasp]

But there good ways to recycle and bad ways

[arctic talon]

It was recycled badly

Is the issue

[opaque coyote]

Yes

But they also didn't have the knowledge to make it useful

[arctic talon]

And Mao encouraged it

[near wasp]

Jay why are you simping for China so hard

[arctic talon]

Again not proper recycling led to most of the metal being bad

[crystal forum]

you have to learn somehow right?

[arctic talon]

Well they knew

They literally knew

[opaque coyote]

They knew, they just rushed it

It was literally for bragging rights on steel production numbers

[vagrant fox]

There's this channel called Type 56 about how China tried to modernize its army and Mao kind of fucked it up because he wanted to keep things the way it was when fighting Japan and the nationalists
It's mildly funny

[arctic talon]

Mao just fucked over the rural people by accident/out of ignorance

[arctic talon]

Yeah Mao had a lot of issues which is why he got removed from power by the CCP lol

Now granted that didn’t stop him from being like

The most powerful man in China

[paper haven]

What was the death toll again? Somewhere bewteen 10 and 50 million people?

[crystal forum]

fucking over rural people is not even just a communist thing though

[opaque coyote]

Basically it was a failure because the industrial part was a failure outside of major cities.

If you did a test and only had 50% of it correctly. That's still an F

[arctic talon]

I’m literally not saying it’s a communist thing

[crystal forum]

like every country does it to some extent

[arctic talon]

Don’t put words in my mouth ffs

[crystal forum]

no im saying it's just a very global thing

like it's specifically something the USSR and china did a lot

but also the west

[arctic talon]

Mao’s propaganda push in the rural regions was stupid

It was called stupid by other CCP officials as well

He went through with it

[opaque coyote]

True

But said rural people also made up a lot of the production.

And said production produced things that were completely useless

[arctic talon]

Because he thought he knew best

Anyways the cultural revolution occurring after the CCP reduced Mao’s influence and power is funny as shit

[opaque coyote]

I will say that Deng is when the industrial revolution for China became successful

[crystal forum]

the classic dictator issue where they think they know eveything

[arctic talon]

Yeah

But at least Mao gets a gold star for not resisting when he got removed from power of being supreme leader in essence

💀

And then he caused the cultural revolution

Which may be classified as him resisting

lol

[opaque coyote]

"Hey high schoolers, do you hate you teachers?"

"yeah."

[storm jungle]

Isnt this the same man who literally had people with glasses killed because he was afraid of smart/nerdy people

💀

[opaque coyote]

"well just fucking kill them!"

[arctic talon]

No

That was Pol Pot

[storm jungle]

Tbh

same guy

bald
ugly af

[crystal forum]

no lmao that was the khmer rouge

[arctic talon]

One is alot more ruthless

lol

[storm jungle]

Tbh

same guy

bald
ugly af

[opaque coyote]

No, that was Pol Pot.

In fact, Pol Pot was so insane that both Mao and Stalin called him a fucking nutcase

[near wasp]

Mao wasn't bald at least not completely

[vagrant fox]

Pol Pot was fucking weird, I have no idea what his ideology was

[arctic talon]

Mao also had money when he was a kid

[crystal forum]

NO trust me one is like more evil than idk

[storm jungle]

Tbh

[arctic talon]

Return to agriculture

[storm jungle]

same guy

bald
ugly af

[crystal forum]

he's more evil than any character

[near wasp]

Cringe

[arctic talon]

That was pol pots entire ideology

[crystal forum]

like more than cartoonish

[opaque coyote]

He didn't even read the communist manifesto

[near wasp]

Dilara is sexist she's saying all ugly bald men are the same

[arctic talon]

Pol pot was just insane

[opaque coyote]

I doubt he even fully knew

[crystal forum]

there's a good behind the bastards episode about him

[surreal nest]

I'd beat up a person with glasses but im not scared of them personally

[arctic talon]

Vietnam going oops after they realized what happened with the Khmer rogue lol

[opaque coyote]

Again, when you have Mao and Stalin calling you a dangerous insane man. You know that something is wrong with you

[arctic talon]

Because they were being invaded

[opaque coyote]

[arctic talon]

And the Khmer killed like

[crystal forum]

vietnam actually feeling bad about cambodia because of how fucked up the events were

[storm jungle]

🪞

[arctic talon]

Hundreds of Vietnamese

[storm jungle]

[arctic talon]

They weren’t going to intervene until the border conflicts intensified

It’s very interesting

[opaque coyote]

I still think the wildest part is that the average life expectancy was 18 years old I believe at their height of their power

[arctic talon]

They knew they fucked up but were willing to wait it out till the Khmer did something

[crystal forum]

still though things have to be bad for south east asians to feel compassion at all

[arctic talon]

That was insane, stupid and bloody

[crystal forum]

i think it was lower

[opaque coyote]

Honestly, reading about the Khmer Rouge genuinely fucked me up for a bit.

[arctic talon]

“guys let’s invade Vietnam and kill hundreds of Vietnamese”

[opaque coyote]

Like genuinely

[daring creek]

VRO WHAT

[opaque coyote]

It just goes against any sense of logic

[daring creek]

HUH

[crystal forum]

anyways dont let this distract you from the fact that the CIA bombed cambodia for literally no reason despite no war being declared

[arctic talon]

That’s Pol Pot

[storm jungle]

Pol was crazy lol

[storm jungle]

"distract"

they literally do that right now

nobody cares

what else is new

[opaque coyote]

Also

He died peacefully in his sleep surrounded by his followers

[storm jungle]

Yes

[opaque coyote]

[storm jungle]

I know

[crystal forum]

fake photo

[near wasp]

Wait till bro learns about msog

[arctic talon]

I know

[storm jungle]

its real

i took it myself

[arctic talon]

Relevant

[crystal forum]

tf is msog

[opaque coyote]

A tiny bit of tomfoolery

[crystal forum]

it's edited

[storm jungle]

its real, i think you just lost touch with reality

[crystal forum]

we actually have recordings of pol pot's voice funny enough

[arctic talon]

“You see the solution to sickness is coconut water, Therfore I will have these teenagers vivisect you and inject coconut water into your intestines”

[near wasp]

Special forces group that operated in loas and camboidia during the Vietnam war aka places we said we werent

[daring creek]

The reason is crazier to me. I thought it would be like eugenics bullshit

[arctic talon]

Actual pol pot logic

Btw

[opaque coyote]

Nope just severe insanity

[arctic talon]

He killed millions

[near wasp]

We did a lot more than bomb camboidia buddy

[opaque coyote]

Again I have to reiterate

Mao and Stalin called him insane

[arctic talon]

In his deranged “medical” experiments

I struggle to call it medical

[opaque coyote]

Mao and Stalin

[arctic talon]

Becuase even cavemen knew better

Like

💀

[opaque coyote]

They also banned actual medicines

[crystal forum]

oh yeah that's standard US behavior. im saying the CIA just carpet bombed cambodia and left a ton of unexploded bombs everywhere despite no war being declared at all

[arctic talon]

Yes

[opaque coyote]

If you were found with medicine

[crystal forum]

cambodia is still finding bombs

[opaque coyote]

You were taken out back and shot

[arctic talon]

It’s anti Khmer ideology

And fake

[opaque coyote]

Yeah I think they described people starving to death or being too sick to work as just lazy

[arctic talon]

You’re mostly correct

Not lazy

Unmotivated

[crystal forum]

thankfully the US doesn't carpet bomb shit anymore but you never know if doctrine will change

[daring creek]

Okay wow dictators are just pathetic

[arctic talon]

Carpet bombing was also done due to the US having alot of old bombs at the time

[near wasp]

I mean we also bombed mined and replaced ammunition with faulty ammunition so that when the Vietcong shot there guns they would explode

[arctic talon]

So it was a way to “cut costs”

As horrible as it is

[opaque coyote]

The man was an absolute nutcase.

Also he never read the communist manifesto btw

[daring creek]

I expected this to be bullshit but its true

[crystal forum]

i thought that was a myth

[daring creek]

Why is it true

[opaque coyote]

Had the exact same reaction btw

[near wasp]

No it's very real

[opaque coyote]

Legitimate sounds like something out of 40k

But no

[daring creek]

Does this mean I'm gonna get executed for being a reddit user and a rick and morty fan

[opaque coyote]

It's real

[opaque coyote]

Die

[daring creek]

[arctic talon]

Anti Khmer ideology

Interacting with people outside of Cambodia

Time to die

[opaque coyote]

That aside, intellectuals counts people like uhh

Doctors

[daring creek]

Shit sounds so fictional until its true

[opaque coyote]

People with a college degree

[arctic talon]

Teachers

[daring creek]

[crystal forum]

im vietnam? no that was because the US was still stuck in WW2 type of air warfare. the war actually made the US realize how outdated their air doctrines are

[arctic talon]

Not in Vietnam

In Korea

[opaque coyote]

Yeah, legit part of the reason why so many people died of sickness was because all of the doctors either pretended they weren't or were killed

[daring creek]

Like dude

I wear glasses

[vagrant fox]

death

[arctic talon]

Also it wasn’t fast

They usually tortured you to death

lol

[crystal forum]

like jet fighters had to learn how to use air to air missiles during vietnam because the airforce was actually losing jets in battles... the US was fighting an airforce with 20 year outdated jets

it was ridiculous

[arctic talon]

If you were lucky you got your brains smashed out in the killing fields

If you were unlucky

You got tortured to death

[crystal forum]

american jets were still doimg dogfights during the start of vietnam lol

[vagrant fox]

The shit what happened at S-21 or whatever that school was called is crazy

[crystal forum]

then they learned that you can actually just shoot a missile kilomets away and avoid having to use guns altogether

[near wasp]

Not true, we were losing jets because they forced the pilots to only use specific corridors and had a ton of fighting restrictions

[crystal forum]

wild stuff

[crystal forum]

that's literally doctrine

that's what a doctrine is

[near wasp]

Its literally stupid when the enemy doesn't abide by the same rules

We just tied our hands for like no reason

[crystal forum]

the lack of air to air missile use was well documented

the air force had just started getting them so it was new still

i wrote a paper on the F4 phantom's issues for fun back in college

[near wasp]

We could literally talk about Vietnam until the cows come home

[crystal forum]

funny how you can have such good technology and still lose battles to doctrine

[opaque coyote]

I think a heartbreaking account is where an elderly Cambodian man said that he had to learn to work and drive while half blind.

Because he needed prescription glasses. And anybody who wore glasses counted as an intellectual.

If they caught you needing glasses or wearing them.

Why of course, execution!

[near wasp]

Its almost like people in our own government wanted us to lose

But if I said that I'd be getting conspiratorial

[crystal forum]

well i don't know about all that but it was an exciting time to be a military contractor because a lot of new technologies were being created for war

[opaque coyote]

Definitely not. They really wanted to win.

[crystal forum]

like small arms were being completely revolutionized by the m16 and the AK

and the US still started the war with some difficulties using the m16

[near wasp]

If they did they wouldn't of restricted movements and how the troops were allowed to fight

[opaque coyote]

It was mainly due to the jungle environment. Some flaws were present at their first introduction because of that.

Because

Hot, humid, and wet makes things difficult to maintain

[crystal forum]

that's mostly an excuse. the teething issues with the m16 were easily preventable and they got fixed pretty fast

[opaque coyote]

Yyyup

[crystal forum]

the M16 is very fucking durable anyways

closed bolt design made it really good at muddy environments

[opaque coyote]

Either way, it does make a bad first impression

Overall Vietnam was fucked.

[near wasp]

Agreed

[crystal forum]

yeah no shit lol

shouldn't have happened in the first place

blame the french

[paper haven]

The M-14 was just as bad when it first got issued.

[opaque coyote]

I think the most interesting but also fucked up part was that a lot of northern Vietnamese simply didn't know the geopolitical situation

So all they saw was "oh look planes... why are they bombing our village?"

[near wasp]

Most logical thing I've heard you ever say

[crystal forum]

see there's the difference, the M14 was bad no matter what while the M16 just needed a few tweaks

[paper haven]

Although that was more because the manufacturers were cutting corners to save money whereas with the M-16 is was because the Army was trying to save money by using the wrong ammo.

[opaque coyote]

Which is fucked up to imagine since well...

They literally didn't know jackshit about the war

Until it basically dropped a bomb at their doorstep

[paper haven]

Help the VC or we kill your family. GIs saw that you helped the VC so they kill your family.

[opaque coyote]

[near wasp]

Pretty much

[paper haven]

Now with your family dead, you join the VC

[surreal nest]

Chaos warriors 1 everybody in the world 0

[near wasp]

The cycle repeats

[opaque coyote]

And the GIs are paranoid about the VC so they shoot said family because "better safe than sorry"

[crystal forum]

and then americans will wonder why they fight people who are so determined

[paper haven]

Then after you win the communists kill you because that's just how they roll.

[surreal nest]

I dont wonder I just follow the whims of my very trustworthy government

[spring cairn]

i love my governmnt

[paper haven]

A major downside to forcing conscripts into a war they don't understand and really don't want to be a part of

[spring cairn]

(sometimes)

[near wasp]

It would of probably been less lives lost if we just nuked north Vietnam

[opaque coyote]

So at the end, both sides grunts were completely paranoid, didn't really understand anything about the war, and willing to kill whoever killed their friends/family/etc.

[paper haven]

Oh gee I wonder how that all turned out

[opaque coyote]

War crimes!

[crystal forum]

im just waiting for trump to bring it back

it's inevitable at this point

[opaque coyote]

Shout out to Hugh Thompson Jr. who helped end the My Lai massacre.

[paper haven]

The US military being volunteer only is a major outlier as far as militaries are concerned. Damn near everyone else has some form of conscription.

[crystal forum]

in the west? not that many

a lot of countries got rid of it

i met some french who were conscripted when it was a thing

[opaque coyote]

Although sadly, it is worth noting that the poor bastard was condemned and ostracized by many individuals in the United States military and government, as well as the public, for his role in the investigations and trials concerning the Mỹ Lai massacre.

[paper haven]

But they recognized his heroism!
in 1998

[vagrant fox]

well he's bringing back battleships, ish

[paper haven]

Oh god, the Trump class

[crystal forum]

the US military is going through a big manpower shortage and the government doesnt want to spend money so conscription is prob their next goal

[opaque coyote]

Weirdly enough, he also still stayed in the army until 1983.

And then continued to make a living as a helicopter pilot after he left.

[paper haven]

Remember, if you've accepted financial aid, you have already agreed to become drafted.

[near wasp]

I'm ineligible

[opaque coyote]

Thank fuck

Fucked up though

[crystal forum]

dont forget the alcoholic in chief also wants everything to be m113's again

i am not making this up

[near wasp]

But if I was gonna join up I'd be an armoror

Aka the gun fixer

[paper haven]

This is the reformers all over again.

[opaque coyote]

I think that actually got blocked because it was recognized as the stupid idea it is.

Although a part of me morbidly wants them to be built

Because

Battleships are cool

[near wasp]

Make more aircraft carriers tbh

[paper haven]

We need our military to be more like the Russian military, remember how good those guys were in 1945?

[opaque coyote]

Ignore the life expectancy and the death toll

[vagrant fox]

Blocked in 3 days?

[near wasp]

Losing the most amount of people does not equal being the best

[paper haven]

Details!

[crystal forum]

you win the war and you get rid of potential rebels. win win for the USSR

[vagrant fox]

Is it that military reform group again with the nonsense

[opaque coyote]

Sorry mistaken.

Although it also won't begin until

2030

Hopefully somebody will cancel that because despite how fucking cool a new battleship is.

Again

Stupid idea in practice

[crystal forum]

no just the pdf documented they published about the military's future goals being about reducing costs and going back to cheap vehicles lol

[opaque coyote]

...

Just one to be built though please

Just one

Just one

BATTLESHIPS ARE COOL

[paper haven]

Most likely, they will accept the government contract (money) to build it and it will take like, ten years to complete and get cancelled sometime along the way

[crystal forum]

warships do nothing

[opaque coyote]

THERE ARE NOW TWO THINGS I AGREE WITH TRUMP ON.

BATTLESHIPS ARE COOL.

AND PAPER STRAWS SUCK ASS.

IT IS STILL A WASTE BUT I WOULD LIKE ONE TO BE BUILT ANYWAYS FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES

[paper haven]

A broken clock is right twice a day or something like that

[opaque coyote]

BUT LOGIC DICTATES THAT EVEN BUILDING ONE IS A WASTE

[crystal forum]

in a war where you'll be using your warships they'll die immediately to nuclear missiles

[near wasp]

It gives another countries a target

So they can touch our boats

[crystal forum]

if you think a supercarrier isn't a target for nuclear missiles idk what to say