40k-lore-chat

[arctic talon]

Necrons, orks and CWE fight for the number 1 favored xenos child

in GW's eyes

Necrons seem to have won

[tough haven]

I love necrons and Orks so I win either way

[tough haven]

CWE?

[arctic talon]

craftworld eldar

[tough haven]

Oh

Respectfully, gross

[humble shoal]

eldart just can't stop taking Ls

[arctic talon]

people like them

[vagrant fox]

cwe should dominate

[humble shoal]

they ran out of cadia before they ran out of cadians

damned cadian immigrants causing warp phenomonon

[opaque coyote]

The Imperium version has the girl be a Sister of Battle and the Ethereal is probably someone like an Inquistor.

Also comic by superfeyn

Idk it's just kinda cute

[prime seal]

of course i'm proud of you

[daring creek]

Thank u sensei

[tough haven]

https://youtu.be/wk4EavPKk2A?si=1nc76lTfWKspigrl

Finally

Freebootin' music

[plush mason]

ikr

[tough haven]

Rare to see good non AI 40k music

[languid meadow]

we had an artist who did that....

then he was found out for being a nonce

[plush mason]

yeah i know the dude you are talking about

made the song that made Rylanor famous online

[rose thorn]

Yeha he’s one of the reason I distrust all warhammer YouTubers

[paper haven]

Youtubers in general shouldn't be trusted.

[prime seal]

is this a generalisation competition?

i distrust anyone that makes videos

[young pecan]

not 8?

[surreal nest]

@arctic talon @spring cairn Vindicta, is she scummy? Thoughts?

[arctic talon]

eh

not really

[outer wave]

Question: do space marines at all use any sort of greatswords, or is it just power axes and thunder hammers at best?

[plush mason]

they use greatswords yes

the black templars have the most famous example afaik

[outer wave]

Hmmmm I see

Never hear of them though

[prime seal]

dark angels' look better

the strongest weapon in the setting is a greatsword

[plush mason]

afaik the blade brethern of the black templars use greatswords as their standard weapon

but yeah powered greatswords are among the strongest weapons in the SMs arsenal but they are rare and reserved for the chapter's best

[prime seal]

oh nah if were talking in general i dont think they compare to necron technology, i was talking about the emperors sword

[plush mason]

oh yeah that thing is in a class all it's own

but afaik an artificer greatsword can cut a helbrute clean in half

[celest dome]

Justiciar have a large 2h Greatsword, could even be considered a Claymore

[outer wave]

I see I see

[shadow plover]

It's quite literally an executioner's sword

[plush mason]

some of them are

others have pointed tips

[shadow plover]

that first one isn't a Judiciar, the second one is

[plush mason]

correct its a Justiciar

which is iirc the standard grey knight

[shadow plover]

ah right, though I doubt Cacti was thinking about that model

[plush mason]

leave it to GW to give 2 completely different units names that are both similar and basically means the exact same thing lol

[plush mason]

well they said Justiciar

[shadow plover]

also 2h sword which it doesn't have

[plush mason]

it does

[shadow plover]

it's tiny

[plush mason]

remember the grey knights have a wrist bolter

[plush mason]

yeah the mini has a very small one lmao, the art shows them much longer

but you can tell by the handle its made to be used with 2 hands

[shadow plover]

fair, and to be clear, I barely know anything about GK because I really don't care about them

but I concede

[rustic patrol]

they're the ones with the baby carrier
all you need to know

[plush mason]

i only know as much as i do because of the chaos gate video game lmao

[shadow plover]

I did too but none of their stuff really stuck with me

[plush mason]

the 2 things that stuck with me the most is they use polearms and have epic helmets

[celest dome]

Was thinking of the Chaplain one

[shadow plover]

[plush mason]

Judiciar is just another way to say Justiciar so easy mistake to make

[shadow plover]

ye

[plush mason]

classic GW naming

[arctic talon]

Greatswords are used by a good few marines yeah

Not standard

but they're def around

[celest dome]

Do we consider SM Evicerator to be Greatswords ?

[storm jungle]

id say so

since its a long and big-ass two-handed sword

[shadow plover]

Greatsword implies that it's double edged

(it doesn't matter)

Or I don't know actually, usually the definition includes the double edged nature of it but does it really matter

[sly zenith]

Space marines don’t typically use eviscerators

If they use great swords it’s normally a power sword

Seeing as how they are just better

[sly zenith]

Nah this is GW naming

Ferris manus (iron hands) leader of the “iron hands” legion who also had iron hands

Angron the angry dude who leads a legion of angry dudes

Malum Caedo, a guy who kills demons who’s name translates to “slaughter evil”

[shadow plover]

It's not really uncommon for space marine to wield an eviscerator either

[rustic patrol]

and of course their more infamous name, the Cacodominus (literal latin for sh1t lord)

[sly zenith]

Eviscerator: This is a much larger, two-handed chain weapon, typically used by specific specialist units or more powerful individuals in the lore. It is comparable in effect to a Chainfist,

“A larger, extended version of the Chainsword, known as the Eviscerator, is usually seen in the hands of Imperial religious fanatics such as penitent Sisters of Battle or the zealous and fiery Redemptionists. Eviscerators, being large, two-handed weapons, are generally powerful enough to have similar effects to the Chainfists frequently carried by Terminators.”

Direct quote from wiki

It is not a common weapon

The only exception would be if primaris introduction suddenly changed this

Which no doubt it did because GW love to water down their own setting. Fuck logistics, Am I right ?

[arctic talon]

You could take 1 per 5 marines in an assault squad

Back when they got their update in 6e

There’s no primaris units with eviscerators on the tabletop

They have them in lore(sometimes)

Funnily enough marines didn’t get power greatswords until after 8e

Despite them having them in lore

[sly zenith]

I mean normally they were named swords

Like special one used by primarchs or whatever

[arctic talon]

No generic option is my point

Not for captains either

Though we know some chapters had a good stock of them in lore

Like the dark angels lol

[sly zenith]

Yeah

They have the best toys

I am not biased in anyway

[arctic talon]

Anyways they couldn’t run them at all outside of azreal’s funny stick

Now they’ve got like more

Bcs of the inner circle companions and Asmodai’s new mini

Based on that one old art of him with the great sword lol

[sly zenith]

Yeah I’ve seen some of the inner circle stuff

[arctic talon]

Asmodais new mini is neat

I don’t love the posing on it though

[sly zenith]

I was thinking about getting some models but I just bought a pc so I’m skint

[arctic talon]

Wallets only so big

[sly zenith]

GW is like the anti-bank

[shadow plover]

Wiki or Lexicanum? And the topic was on Space Marine usage on eviscerators and they were quite common for the heresy units

[sly zenith]

Yeah I was talking about space marine usage

I used the fandom wiki so lemme check the other two (fandom is bullshit sometimes)

The Eviscerator is most “commonly found in the Imperium, amongst whose population it has come to symbolise religious wrath. For this reason the Eviscerator is often the weapon of choice with Priests of the Ecclesiarchy who have been inducted into either the Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, or by members of one of the Redemption Cults.[1][3]”

[arctic talon]

Heresy letting you run a full squad of despoilers with eviscerators is funny

Even if it’s an awful use of points

[shadow plover]

in heresy for example a squad of despoilers (which are the basic troop choice for melee marines) a squad of 10 can have 2 heavy chainswords (=eviscerators)

in the current edition

I don't remember if 2.0 had the option to field the full squad with them

[arctic talon]

I’m mixing them up with one of the inductii

Prolly

You’re correct

[daring creek]

whens gw selling a real life chain sword

I have some disgruntled emotions I want to take out on people I had beef with 19 years ago

[shadow plover]

Salamander, White Scar, Blood Angel and World Bearer inductii can all take Heavy Chainswords it seems

and SoH inductii can take one in every 4

same with WE, EC and SW

[sly zenith]

Yeah. My point was that is isn’t common

[shadow plover]

My point was that it's not really uncommon either 😄

[sly zenith]

👆

Yeah it is

[shadow plover]

but that's not true

[sly zenith]

👆

I checked all three wikis all of them say the same thing

[shadow plover]

but we have plenty of evidence of them using them, whole squads even

it's like saying chainaxes are uncommon

because not every marine has one

[sly zenith]

Chain axes are uncommon though

[shadow plover]

guh

[sly zenith]

Common - chainsword/combat knife’s. Standard issue space marine kit

Uncommon - power swords, power axes

Rare - relic blades(power great swords) , eviscerators, , power lances, chain axes

Its uncommon, but not rare

Chains axes are rarely seen amongst loyalist forces

And I’m not talking about table top I’m talking about the lore

[celest dome]

And what the basis of it ?

[sly zenith]

I can see your typing I’ll wait till you finish talking

[sly zenith]

Wdym

The basis of what. The conversation as a whole. My opinion, his opinion.

?

[celest dome]

What factor are you considering to say that it is rarer than the other?

[sly zenith]

How often it is seen used or mentioned being used in the lore

Books. Audiobooks. Comics (there aren’t many of comics)

[shadow plover]

It really just comes down to preference and doctrine of the chapter or individual

it's not a question of rarity

Space Sharks are a chapter filled with chainaxes even though they're always low on resources and are struggling to keep up with the demand of war

Flesh Tearers prefer eviscerators and chain axes over chainswords

[sly zenith]

So graviton guns aren’t rare then?

What about arbalests

[shadow plover]

those are explicitly stated to being rare

[sly zenith]

What about necron phase blades. An entire section of the asassinorum use them

Helfire guns ?

[shadow plover]

it has never been stated that eviscerators or chain axes are rare or for a very specific sect or group of individuals unlike these items

[sly zenith]

Arbalests are never stated to be rare

Skitari use them all the time

[shadow plover]

tbf I didn't even know what you were meaning with arbalests

[sly zenith]

Rail assisted slug rifles

[surreal nest]

[celest dome]

Just gonna say that the lore does leave space to let you homebrew your chapter as using Chain Axes as commonly as another would Chain Swords, just that they still act the same on the TT

[burnt maple]

Yup.

[sly zenith]

We aren’t talking about hombrew

Or tabletop

[celest dome]

And also that while in lore and mini 8 times out of 10 you're going to have a standard Medieval Knight style Sword (Bastard Sword), any type of real (and imaginary) Melee weapon can exist in the standard array

[spring cairn]

she is like GT but awful

[surreal nest]

shes my new main im so goated with her

[spring cairn]

as in just a dogshit character

gl

cuz she ain't great

rn

it's so bad ppl unironically do melee green vindicta

[sly zenith]

Who?

[celest cedar]

https://fxtwitter.com/SafeForFaces/status/1988436218992816617/photo/1 Chase Robertsdottir

SFF - SFW (@SafeForFaces)

I made an Invisimech Fanchild
︀︀His name is Chase (For obvious reasons)
︀︀
︀︀#invisimech #mechabitch #visimech
︀︀#dispatch #dispatchgame #robertrobertson #invisigal

**💬 46 🔁 231 ❤️ 3.0K 👁️ 42.5K **

FxTwitter · Nov 12, 2025, 2:38 AM

[celest dome]

Wouldn't it be Robertsson ?

[tough haven]

Trying to think of some ways a chaos corrupted ruststalker could semi-stealthily sabotage/soften up a militarum convoy before it attacks in earnest

[celest dome]

Servitor with Warp bombs

Or using Warp Rounds

[celest cedar]

Visi doesnt want to continue the Robertson naming convention xd

[celest dome]

But that is continuing the naming conventions...

[modern rapids]

Does the religion/Dogma of the Empire have any kind of official position on the afterlife?

To me a lot of it seems like a parody/satire / a total corruption of Christian virtues.

like in Christianity you would be adviced to think the best of everyone, assume they are angels that always mean the best. For even if you get betrayed, you did the right thing, because this life is only a shadow of the one to come

But to me it seems that the Imperial religion is extremely if not SOLELY concerned with this life, with the survival of the human race agains the Chaos and Xenos threat

There is an extreme encouragement towards self sacrifice in the name of service towards the Emperor and the Human race

but I don't think I have ever heard of any kind of Afterlife in the 40K universe

The most I have heard is something like "Even in death, I serve" but even that seems to refer to the dead being brought back to life/their corpses used for service, rather than some kind of afterlife

I would imagine in the 40K universe there would be an even higher need for some kind of blissful afterlife for the people to not go insane

so is there any kind of official Dogma from the Ecclesiarchy concerning a faithful servants afterlife?

Anything like a blissful existence in some type of "heaven" with the Emperor?

[celest dome]

Yes

[modern rapids]

My understanding is that in 40K souls exists and they ALL go to the warp... which seems always to be more like Hell than Heaven... is this correct?

[celest dome]

The Warp is more like the Greek afterlife in that sense, both the good and the bad part were there.

The Emperor is believed to take the souls of those that died in his name, but for the most part that ain't really true, most get munched by Warp being or Daemons, or just burn out in the warp

[modern rapids]

But from what I understand even the Greeks had Elysium for the good people.

It is not well known internationally at all, but the pagan religion of the past from my country Finland had a concept of afterlife called "Tuonela" which was basically a damp, dark and miserable place where EVERYONE would go after death

life there would basically be the same as in this life, but more or less more miserable than here lol

Even with the influence of Christianity, there were merely additions of "well bad people like murderers and rapists might get a bed made out of stone instead of wool when they die" 😂

[celest dome]

The Imperial cult think there is an Elysium, or Valhalla...
Doesn't mean there is one

[modern rapids]

In this belief would those souls taken by the Emperor still exist in the Warp, but merely closer to/together with the Emperor so that their existence would be somewhat blissful?

[modern rapids]

Yeah that is kinda what I was asking for, what the Imperial cult believes in

what their Dogma is concerning the afterlife

not as much the actual reality

Is it that the belief in Afterlife in the 40K universe is very "loose"

Like even the ecclesiarchy will give you a very vague "you go to the Emperor" answer?

Like nothing specific/more developed like for example in Christianity about the second coming, joining of the Heaven and the Earth, new paradise, everything made whole etc.

[modern rapids]

also being consumed by a daemon; does that mean your soul just stops existing? Like annihilation, total stop of consciousness?

Or do you eternally exists in some psychic warp torture plane?

[celest dome]

Anillation

[storm jungle]

You get slowly agonizingly torn apart on a spiritual level then stop existing once daemons are done eating you so yeah total annihilation

[modern rapids]

I see

[celest cedar]

a little variation

[modern rapids]

Apparently Orks believe in a reincarnation kind of "afterlife"

You get sent to Gork and Mork when you die, then you are reborn in a new body to fight again for all eternity

which probably actually happens knowing the power of belief when it comes to the Orks

sounds like Heaven for them

also wait is even the Dogmatic teaching of the Imperial cult that even most servants of the God Emperor just get munched by Daemons?

Like only the MOST faithful servants will be taken by the Emperor?

bro... it's like they want most people to just become Chaos worshippers 😂

Either you have an immensly small chance of being chosen by the Emperor to fight eternally against Chaos

or

you embrace Nurgle and get to spread his "love" forever in a blissful state of ignorance to your true state...

hmmm difficult choice 😂

Also for "The Chosen" that get sacrificed for the Astronomicon, I am guessing the belief is that this is a very holy sacrifice and you basically get guaranteed chosen by the Emperor to be apart of his holy light and not get munched by demons?

[full obsidian]

Is the power of belief thing is just a meme, or does it truly work that way.
Since it sounds like the warp is just a reflection of emotions/reality does the power of belief thing apply to everyone?
Do gods/daemons and such exist in the warp and such just because enough beings believe in them?

[modern rapids]

Also btw is there any explanation as to why there aren't really any "Good Chaos gods" in the warp?

Like why isn't there a god that is formed from all the positive emotions of all sentient beings?

Like a god that consists of all the feelings of love and empathy?

[full obsidian]

Well I don't think they'd be called a chaos god if they were good

[modern rapids]

I dont think it is about enough people believing that they exist, but they are generated by the emotions of sentient beings

like for example Khorne gets most of his power from all the wrath, bloodlust, hatred etc. that is felt in the universe by all sentient beings

Slaanesh wasn't born because the Elves started believing in Her one day, but because the Elves became so decadent

[modern rapids]

haha yeah true, but like a god that exists in the warp in general

also wait what... is the current imperium of mankind in the 40th millenium not as grand as it was during the Dark age of technology???

like is the technology now worse and the reach of humanity's power worse than before?

[full obsidian]

I always saw the warp as like an explanation for why the 40k universe is doomed to be in war forever, as war causes a lot of negative emotions which make the warp worse, bad warp causes terrible things to happen in reality, which causes more negative emotions and makes the warp worse again, so the imperium can never truly win against chaos because of this

[crystal forum]

there was no big human empire during the dark age, it was a bunch of smaller factions and each one had significantly better tech than current imperium

[storm jungle]

Its a meme. The ork gestalt field is more like a reality lube or duct tape.

[crystal forum]

this is mainly due to STC technology

[crystal forum]

the closest we can see to dark age level tech is probably league of votaan who still have STC's

and even their tech is probably much less advanced than what ancient humanity had

[storm jungle]

The Imperium is literally a shithole, I thought that was clear lmao

[crystal forum]

man i wish the age of strife was talked about more in lore

it seems like a wild era in the galaxy

also horrors beyond imagination everywhere

[modern rapids]

oh also btw is there any confirmed canon or even a believed actual "Creator of the universe" in the 40k universe?

[raven stone]

Dark Age of Technology humans had the ability to build starship weapons that rewind targets backwards in time by one nanosecond to make sure the shot connects. so…yea.

[crystal forum]

no

there is no omnipotent god in 40k

[full obsidian]

I think the closest thing to that was the old ones

[modern rapids]

Like even the God Emperor is a mere created being that was born, he did not create everything, he is a part of the creation

[modern rapids]

I see, so it takes a more naturalist stance on existence?

[raven stone]

IF you take ancient lore…the closest we get are the Old Ones

[modern rapids]

Basically yeah lol, it is an eternal cycle

[crystal forum]

perhaps. the old ones seemed to have naturally evolved, though we have no real history of their origins

[raven stone]

Semi naturalist, and even if there were creator dieties equivalents those are certainly alien, non-human gods

[modern rapids]

How is that possible though... for all of these fragmented societies to have such better technology?

or is it that

with the Empire of man

such technology was banned

like Artificial intelligence for example

[crystal forum]

you are correct

science is banned in the imperium

mostly

[modern rapids]

STC?

[crystal forum]

and AI is especially illegal

[raven stone]

Well humanity during Dark Age of Technology is like…Star Trek but with even deadlier technology.

[crystal forum]

standard template constructs. they're hard to describe because they take many forms but the ones we know of are basically AI cores that can fabricate anything that was known to humanity during its peak

although sometimes STC's are just data storage devices

current humanity views the recovery of STC's as a very high goal because this is the only way it actually gets better technology

[modern rapids]

I wonder why the leauge of Votaan is so under utilized in 40K. They are cool space dwarfs with sentient robots that they treat as equals

[full obsidian]

I think it's only new science that's banned, if it's something from the dark age of technology it's technically not new so is allowed. But it's a very blurred line I imagine

[raven stone]

They are a relatively recent faction by franchise age

[crystal forum]

they're a very new faction out of lore. they're the most recent faction added to the game

[wintry cloud]

They legit just came out, give it time

[modern rapids]

I mean yeah, but I thought this was all due to the increased Xenos and Chaos threat that forces them in to a constant state of war...

[raven stone]

That is ALSO true

Half the pain of Imperium is definitely self inflicted

[modern rapids]

holy fuck

[wintry cloud]

A little bit of both

[crystal forum]

yes the imperium shooting itself in the foot is a recurring theme

most of this is nonsensical on purpose

[raven stone]

But the other half is…well, IoM as extremists have some points to stand on

[modern rapids]

But aren't even they just creatures?

Fucking lizard people like in Warhammer Fantasy...

sure in fantasy they kinda created the other races... but they didn't create existence itself

[modern rapids]

Yeah I see, thank you.

[crystal forum]

old ones created most races in the current galaxy

[modern rapids]

I remember hearing that it was due to some kind of AI uprising in the past?

[storm jungle]

Almost everything regarding the state they are in now is the Imperium’s fault

[celest cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/coupe-coupé-dispatch-dispatch-game-gif-17296090674705798880

[modern rapids]

aaah so yeah as @raven stone said, reminds me of Star Trek

[raven stone]

Yes. Well, nowadays it is split between reading it as “AI genuinely rebelling like Matrix”, or “AI going insane on exposure to Warp.”

[crystal forum]

we arent completely sure what caused the age of strife but it was a mix of different factors, one of them being a war against "men of iron" which are intelligent robot

[full obsidian]

Xenos yes, although i think chaos is a bit more complicated as a lot of people go to chaos because the imperium is so cruel and they are desperate to rebel against the imperium, also true for humans joining the tau too ig, and in response the imperium acts even crueler when this happens, so it's a brutal cycle of war basically which is why the 40k universe is grimdark

[raven stone]

Yes Warp can affect even digital things.
The other reason why tech is on a back foot.

[modern rapids]

How does Adeptus Mechanicus generally view AI?

I know they fucking love science and new discoveries even at the peril of humanity...

But what about their views on AI?

[storm jungle]

Badly

[modern rapids]

ahh I see, okay makes sense then

[storm jungle]

Its literally referred to as Abominable Intelligence

[crystal forum]

admech is divided in their opinions on most things, but AI is generally viewed as heretical

[modern rapids]

I had no clue

[raven stone]

AI is banned, unless they mistake it as a Machine Spirit…(VERY COMPLEX THING HERE lol)

[full obsidian]

The mechanics seek knowledge and tech of the dark age, I believe, but they are still very closed minded and ban any new knowledge and technology at the same time

[crystal forum]

they also love to hoard tech

[modern rapids]

I mean it is a viscious circle kinda.

Like a lot of it is self inflicted due to their dogma... but then again you can't really fault them due to the position they are in with the Xenos and Chaos

[wintry cloud]

You can definitely fault them

[celest cedar]

hatin on generative AI

[raven stone]

The other other reason why Tech is backwards for most of IoM is because…well, Ad Mech hoards it as political and social power.

[modern rapids]

I mean yeah lol. Feel like every single action we would see as "horrid" is actually justified in the lore lol.

[misty vector]

its their brutal policies that put them in their situation in the first place imo

[modern rapids]

I see, do we know if anyone/anything created them? Or they just naturally came to be?

[storm jungle]

The Imperium is its own enemy , this is a huge theme with the setting

GW said as much themselves

[full obsidian]

Is the imperium banning knowledge and technology something to do with tneeztch? since tnzeetch seems to be described as being about the pursuit of knowledge which doesn't really sound like a bad thing at first

[storm jungle]

No its just dogma

[crystal forum]

that's because all the good xenos were killed by humanity during the great crusades lol

[raven stone]

Pretty much the only things that are difficult to justify is how IoM treats its own citizens. That, and during Horus Heresy the Imperium did kill off a lot of weaker, more peaceful aliens. This is because the Emperor tried to use Xenocide to disguise Demon-nicide(the purging of Chaos Demons)

It is generally agreed by the fandom things did not work as he planned at all.

[modern rapids]

yeah true...

but then againt he imperium is totally justified in persecuting chaos to the fullest...

due to you know traitors coming back to torture and kill everything in their sights

40k is very interesting to me and "brave" (yeah I know cringe) because basically every single side is justified... kinda

like we the readers/players see a lot of their actions as completely fucked up and unjustified... but most of the time they are perfectly justified in the universe

[wintry cloud]

Pls explain to me how chaos is justified

[crystal forum]

we barely know anything about old ones to begin with so no. they're viewed as the precursor race though because the setting is always seen through the eyes of humanity (sadly), so they're the only precursors we know of since they created humanity

[raven stone]

When I first discovered 40k in the 1990s, I just liked it for daring to suggest the far future can be far worse.

[modern rapids]

Give mercy to the "innocent" believing they have the best of intentions?

Welp guess you just caused a giant uprising of murderous torture hobos on an entire planet

[full obsidian]

I don't think any side is justified, if every side is similar it's because they're all evil and unjustified, maybe tragic is a better way to describe most of the factions as most of them share the theme of losing the past but also clinging onto it and becoming worse because of that

[storm jungle]

This guy gets it

[wintry cloud]

100%

[modern rapids]

I wonder why this is...

Guess the only explanation is that in 40K AI is truly intelligent/conscious, therefore the warp effects it?

[storm jungle]

We dont now

Its just paranormal bullshit

[modern rapids]

AI is created by humans (heretics)

But a Machine Spirit comes from the Omnissiah, right?

[crystal forum]

weren't some ironkin said to fall to chaos or something?

[modern rapids]

Don't they basically worship knowledge?

[celest cedar]

we fallin from grace twin 🥀

[storm jungle]

Yeah but its due to forced exposure, they dont embrace it

[modern rapids]

Yeah but the brutal policies are only a thing because of the brutality of Chaos

[wintry cloud]

These are all faction that have shot themselves in the foot and have done warcrimes unimaginable.

Justification is a iffy thing to say, 40k is about super nazis killing other super nazis.

[crystal forum]

machine spirits are hard to explain because they work more on vibes than actual hard coded lore

which is a common theme in 40k lore writing

[modern rapids]

Tzeentch at its core at least to my understanding is mostly about schemes for schemes sake.

Change for Change sake

[storm jungle]

They always existed even before Chaos, the Imperium is actively fascist and authoritarian

[wintry cloud]

Don’t start going that way, its because they are a xenophobic and racist group who constantly purges other races.

[crystal forum]

the imperium was brutal even during the great crusades. it's founded on totalitarianism

[storm jungle]

they are an empire built on forceful conquest

[misty vector]

change is the only constant baby 😎

[modern rapids]

How was that supposed to work exactly?

[modern rapids]

Well idk about that, I guess Chaos just IS. it doesn't need justification, it cannot justify anything. it just is

[storm jungle]

It is actively evil as per their own codex

it isnt just "is"

[wintry cloud]

Bro

[modern rapids]

but I meant it more like humans seeking Chaos to escape the Imperium

[storm jungle]

they are literal cartoon villains

the chaos gods actively enjoy the shit they do lol

[crystal forum]

i still dont think we really know why the imperium hated xenos so much. you cant tell me the planet named murder had any reason to be conquered lol

[wintry cloud]

The super rapists are “just is”

[modern rapids]

I am guessing this knowledge is only available to Us?

Like the Imperial Cult would brand this as heresy, that a xenos race created humanity

[raven stone]

cracks fingers
Hoo are you in for a LONG ride…this is, essentially, “what is the Machine Spirit?”

That…can be any and all of the following, depending on the object in question.
(1) The Imperium is a place that forgot how most of its own technology works. So the most common form of instruction (bearing in mind some human worlds are only at feudal level or even more backwards) is the language of rituals. In this sense, the “Machine Spirit” can be a vague term invoked to make sure the tech user can follow the instructions calmly, so a caveman doesn’t blow himself up with his Plasma Gun.

(2) Ad Mech, despite banning AI, are not guaranteed to recognise what AI actually would be. In this case, sufficiently “dumb” AI programmes are also mislabelled as “The Machine Spirit”. Especially if certain intact circuitry are unknowingly integrated into other machines that keeps the AI there.

(3) And did we mention that on Mars, Ad Mech HQ, there is an alien techno god that could be the actually source of tech innovation for humanity since way back when The Emperor trapped it there somehow? This entity can also influence technology.

So yea. Pick your poison lol.

[crystal forum]

oh yeah old ones lore is wayyyy out of reach of most imperials

[storm jungle]

This is like us knowing what created us

we literally got no idea, only rough guesses

aka waters and reptilians probably

[median star]

the wide spread raping that happened to p much every during age of strife kind of have every the idea of fuck the aliens regardless of who they actually are

[vagrant fox]

I'm pretty sure I know how my parents made me, bozo

[raven stone]

We as audience know a lot of things that would get non-Inquisitor Imperials or below shot and murdered.

[modern rapids]

So they can't make a conscious decision of "hmm yess actually Chaos better", but they are simply forcefuly corrupted due to exposure?

[crystal forum]

also old ones just dont matter to the current setting so it's not like it's important to know about. old ones lore is mainly there to explain the backstory of necrons and a little bit about eldar

[storm jungle]

Not really because even during the DAOT and Strife humanity also hunted and killed each other, it wasnt just aliens, its just a narrative of "stabbed us in the back" narrative the Emperor uses

[storm jungle]

Depends from person to person

its literally cthulu religionism lol

[raven stone]

Needs a shit tonne of willpower

[modern rapids]

I mean I guess...

But like the people/things they persecute are actually existential threats to humanity in the 40k universe, not just made up propaganda

[modern rapids]

Yeah okay I get that

[storm jungle]

The Imperium actively perpetuates its own problems

this is the point

[wintry cloud]

She’s said this like eight times^

[storm jungle]

Like

if you want the word of god

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/1Xpzeld6/the-imperium-is-driven-by-hate-warhammer-is-not/

[raven stone]

I mean, ok, there is a bit of IRL factor at play here.

[crystal forum]

fucking love that they had to explain this

[storm jungle]

it was during the nazi tabletop player incident too

[modern rapids]

But wasn't that born out of necessity to unite humanity?

[storm jungle]

Read bro

[modern rapids]

INQUISITION! Yeah this one here

[raven stone]

It is a sad fact that some people don’t just think of IoM as a tragic necessity, but an actual honest to god good fucking idea to implement in real life in 2025.

[wintry cloud]

Do not commit the sin of empathy brother

[crystal forum]

a lot of humanity was doing just fine without being united. there was no real justification for the imperium. If you consider how most if not all of the galaxy's existential threats exist directly because of the imperium it really starts getting hard to defend it

[raven stone]

Nice pic BTW. You wouldn’t happen to be here Artist/creator himself would ya XD?

[modern rapids]

yeah ofc, but it's not like some moral choice they made.

it is their nature, it is the only thing they CAN do, Chaos cannot change in to anything else that it is by it's own

The only way for Chaos to change is for sentient beings to change

[wintry cloud]

No i wish. Just a generic guy

[storm jungle]

I mean they are actively sentient, they enjoy what they do, that kinda seals it.

[raven stone]

Now to be fair that stuff is hidden in the Horus Heresy novels.

[wintry cloud]

https://youtu.be/aWUFSB3bfSs?si=ZRugzPHNScTePyCg

try this guy

[full obsidian]

40k is a great allegory for war because it perfectly shows that if often happens because people believe terrible atrocities are justified because they believe the other side started it first as this discussion rn is showing

[raven stone]

So we gotta bring him up to date with stuff too.

[crystal forum]

you just need to read the opening trilogy lol

[misty vector]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-fantasy-kairos-fateweaver-warhammer3-tzeentch-gif-26150136

[crystal forum]

the only HH books worth reading anyways

[raven stone]

Yea but not every newcomer will know there is that much deep lore hidden outside the rulebooks

[remote wadi]

To be fair the emperor united humanity cause he had vision of what chaos was gonna be

He just didnt realize he was the cause for it

[crystal forum]

yeah the chaos he ended up creating

[modern rapids]

Bruh I had no clue about that Alien techno god 😭

[wintry cloud]

Self fulfilling prophecy

[storm jungle]

Again doesnt excuse anything

[remote wadi]

Exactly

[storm jungle]

the Imperium/Emperor could have just went out and exterminated factions that needed exterminating. They literally crushed anyone that opposed them. INCLUDING human and aliens that wanted nothing to do with them.

ITS LITERALLY JUST DUNE

[remote wadi]

All sci fi is just Dune

Dune was peak

[raven stone]

C’tan (which is oddly not a Warp god, but a ‘god’ made from sentient cosmic particles and whatnot…yea, Necron lore there)

[modern rapids]

I mean sure, but we are talking about a fictional canon.

and also fictional religions inside said fictional works.

Like there are answers to that in terms of what the writers say to the reader about the world

and also what the people in said world believe in

[crystal forum]

C'tan are more like physical gods or something yeah

primordial gods

[storm jungle]

There really isnt when this setting has over like 100 writers lol

[modern rapids]

wide spread raping??? HUH?

[storm jungle]

they are the gods of physical reality yeah

[raven stone]

I will say again I am very disappointed NOBODY at GW was brave enough to say “Emps fucked up because his xenocidal policies came from trying to mislabel Demons as Aliens.”

[storm jungle]

its why they are so OP + hate the Warp

[remote wadi]

Honestly c'tan are a failure as gods

[crystal forum]

and they exist just to absorb energy lel

[modern rapids]

I mean yeah true. I am probably the only one asking if the 40k world has a creator god 😂

[remote wadi]

They got put under a leash by a species that used to die at 20

[storm jungle]

uh

a bit of an understatement i think

lmao

[remote wadi]

The necrons

[storm jungle]

Yes.

[wintry cloud]

Very reductionist take

[storm jungle]

you do realise they like

turned into super robots

and had litearl planet killing weapons

and could blow up stars

and stellar bodies

[wintry cloud]

And the ctan were weakened from fighting OTHER GODS and then they started infighting

[remote wadi]

Thanks to the c'tan

[crystal forum]

they had star system killers even

[remote wadi]

Exactly their own failure

[storm jungle]

Cool. They still got owned.

[crystal forum]

hell im sure necrons have a bomb that could kill the galaxy if they wanted

possibilities are endless

[wintry cloud]

They had the breath of the gods which could nuke the entire universe

[hallow plover]

Necrons have whatever the plot demands

[crystal forum]

yet they still dont have's flesh

[modern rapids]

I might be mistaken but is this not to combat like Actual real life people getting inspired by the Empire?

Like the Imperium is not good in our world, the only thing I have been talking about whether it is justified/"good" in the 40k world, not from our own world view point

[crystal forum]

L

[modern rapids]

yeah this one

[storm jungle]

Theres no "justified in-universe" take

they literally say the Imperium is bad

its made for morons who cannot understand that lol

[crystal forum]

there's plenty of characters who understand how bad the imperium is, which contradicts any point about it being viewed as good in the setting

[celest dome]

The Imperium destroyed various human factions that would have been much better fates than its own

[modern rapids]

I mean yeah, it is obviously satire on so many levels about so many things.

It is satire bout authoritarian governments

It is satire/a look at a totally corrupted version of Christianity/religion in general etc. etc. etc.

[raven stone]

You have not been to the darkest corners of the Internet where right wing asshats try to make IoM a reality.

[storm jungle]

Yes.

[modern rapids]

I would never imply this

[celest dome]

Both and many more things

[wintry cloud]

He’s getting closer

We’re almost there

[raven stone]

No not you, but such people do exist.

[crystal forum]

tyranids would have probably even left the galaxy alone if the imperium didn't give them the impression that it's a galaxy worth eating

[raven stone]

That is technically another Horus Heresy related mess

[modern rapids]

Real life fascist regimes are evil because most of the time the people they persecute are INNOCENT...

But in 40k it seems that most of the time the people they persecute are necessary to persecute... because if not, they'll summon a planet wide murder torture hobo session

[wintry cloud]

Oh my lord

[raven stone]

Not really? IoM persecutes political dissidents who are not “tainted” as much as they do actual tainted ones.

[crystal forum]

im viewing it in a broader sense. a less connected humanity would have made the nids think the galaxy is still not worth eating since theres no singular entity owning most of it

[modern rapids]

What was the Emperors own justification/motive for it then?

As I understand it, the Emperor is portrayed as a moral just and good leader for Humanity, but that ONLY the imperial cult corrupted him after his... "death"

or am I completely mistaken?

[median star]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/779196945448304640/1364708570355990538/togif.gif

[storm jungle]

💀

[crystal forum]

he wanted to be in control. the emperor thinks humanity is too dumb to function without him

the emperor is massive dickhead

[storm jungle]

He literally fucking says "Im doing this because I KNOW im right"

The quote every dictator has used in history to murder millions

[modern rapids]

Sure, but at least how I understand it in 40k it is usually actually justified... while in our world it rarely is

[wintry cloud]

How much imperial propaganda have you been taking in the past few years?

[hallow plover]

He litterally warlord'd himself to control

[celest dome]

Except there are ways to use Psyker and not have high risks, Abhuman aren't dangerous (at least more so than baselines)

[storm jungle]

For the last time, there is no justification

[hallow plover]

I don't think that's moral

[modern rapids]

Yeah I could totally have a warped/wrong view of the 40k lore, since I am quite the noob in it

[wintry cloud]

You got the spirit but you’re a little to stuck on “justifying” all these clearly immoral things.

[celest dome]

The Imperium isn't better than Chaos, both are parasites that have destroyed their host

[modern rapids]

oh okay I see, yeah C'tan is more of just a natural being that came to be from space dust and shit... just got very powerful from eating fucking stars

[raven stone]

The Horus Heresy novels do actually point out the Emperor is flawed, and indirectly caused his own sons to turn against him in the process.
That, and as we discussed…there were a lot of diplomatic options he did not pursue for his (almost fanatical) goal of eradicating the Chaos gods. Which included state enforced atheism of the most militant sort. As in if you so much as keep a Bible or equivalent in your home, you get shot.

[crystal forum]

and he still never explained chaos to the primarchs lel

[remote wadi]

The imperium is honestly just a different chaos cult

[hallow plover]

They wouldn't get it.

[remote wadi]

Big E is gonna be a chaos god after all

[raven stone]

Also the whole Xenocide thing was a cover to keep the knowledge of demons a secret.

[modern rapids]

like in the 40k universe itself they are bad too?

Well the question is... what the fuck should the Imperium do?

I don't think humanity would exist very long if the Imperium became like our IRL modern day governments

[raven stone]

Which is ALSO a terrible idea.

[storm jungle]

There is no "thing to do", they fucked up, and are on their way to extinction slowly like everyone else.

again stop trying to think of justifications, there isnt none lol

[wintry cloud]

“Should”
Its too late for should. Should should’ve happened a long time ago.

This setting is about watching the burnout of factions who never changed for the better.

[full obsidian]

Is it far fetched to theorise that the emperor is like another chaos god who gets his power from religious worship/sacrifice

[modern rapids]

I have heard of that, but yeah I would never make the point that 40k government is justified/right in our own world

like the best thing would probably be the Tau?

[storm jungle]

this isnt about "our world"

they arent justified

[raven stone]

Ok we gotta breathe easy here a little people.
All factions are “villain protagonists”, and it is actually alright to like a villain protagonist, just remember everything they do is still evil.

[modern rapids]

but in 40k

[storm jungle]

they never were

thats literally the point

[modern rapids]

The Tau are immensly naive and won't last long in the 40k universe

[storm jungle]

We dont really know that

[modern rapids]

in ours? they would probably be the best option

[humble shoal]

They also require brainwashing to function

[storm jungle]

everyone in 40k has persevered someway or another

[storm jungle]

Im glad that isnt the case IRL

[full obsidian]

The tau are also evil, just not at the ridiculous genocidal stage everyone else is at

[wintry cloud]

This is lowkey kinda funny, i haven’t been doing my work.

[raven stone]

(Sadly whether any factions would last or not is decided by GW’s financial department.)

[humble shoal]

Definitely isnt the case for all govts irl

[storm jungle]

idk man, most govt dont matter when the only ones that affect the world are the huge ones

[modern rapids]

Don't the Tyranids just mindlessly consume?

I mean they are a hivemind with some intelligence... but don't they mostly work off pure "Me want eat"

not any kind of moral consideration ?

[humble shoal]

True, and they have the softest power

[crystal forum]

the way they arrived into the galaxy in the first place is a long story

[raven stone]

The way the Hivemind utilises Genestealer Cults kind of imply it does understand the concept of malice of sorts.

[modern rapids]

brooo what was wrong with my take, please educate me 😭

[storm jungle]

...we've been attempting to educate you for the last 30m

💀

[modern rapids]

I mean true yeah in our world...

But in our world we don't have humans with psychic powers that live for tens of thousands of years

[storm jungle]

Oh my god

FOR THE LAST TIME

[wintry cloud]

Im crying

[storm jungle]

THEIR ACTIONS IN UNIVERSE ISNT JUSTIFIED

IM GOING INSANE

[modern rapids]

I am a good little loyal citizen 🥰

[storm jungle]

Lmao

[crystal forum]

psykers aren't naturally evil lol

[raven stone]

TLDR:
(1) Imperium of Mankind is a villain protagonist, still.
(2) It is alright to like a villain protagonist.
(3) Just remember a villain protagonist is still, y’know, villainous and evil.

[wintry cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[remote wadi]

psyker will inevitibly be evil cause they are misstreaten and powerful

[crystal forum]

the imperium literally genocides innocent psykers every day

[modern rapids]

Unless I don't know something, the Ogryn seem like completely harmless to me yeah.

Like if anything they are as loyal and loving as dogs

[remote wadi]

the perfect ingredients to make a evil genius

[full obsidian]

As much as GW keep saying that the imperium is evil, I think they are also just as much to blame for fans thinking they should be rooted for, by constantly glorifying them from the imperiums perspective

[wintry cloud]

This is every faction

[storm jungle]

They absolutely are yea lmao

[misty vector]

Maybe more like a gorilla

[modern rapids]

What do you think the Empire should do then?

Or like have the creators of 40k given anything as to how they should do things differently to be better... WHILE ALSO KEEPING HUMANITY ALIVE in their universe?

[remote wadi]

yes but chaos we know we bad

[storm jungle]

"loyal as loving dogs" bro 💀

[remote wadi]

and we glad we bad

[crystal forum]

honestly the biggest reason the imperium hates psykers is that they hold power which the imperium has a hard time controlling like it does with regular plebs. the imperium wants total control like all totalitarian entities

[storm jungle]

already said it, not be a fuckign space hitler

[remote wadi]

let the galaxy burn

[wintry cloud]

Amen

[storm jungle]

the Imperium/Emperor could have just went out and exterminated factions that needed exterminating. They literally crushed anyone that opposed them. INCLUDING human and aliens that wanted nothing to do with them.

you can do conquest without mass genociding everyone lol

its not pretty

[modern rapids]

Immoral from our point of view, from OUR world that has no xenos, that has no chaos gods etc.

SO I am trying to get to the core of it being justifiable or not COMPLETELY in the 40K universe, not saying "oh yeah we should act like the imperium here in our world"

[storm jungle]

but its still something

[storm jungle]

Bro

[misty vector]

Galaxy is fucked let the roaches start over

[wintry cloud]

Holy sigma

[storm jungle]

stop with the fucking "our world" stuff

this is like the 10th time, we get it

[remote wadi]

bro if we did have xenos in our universe we would either already be exterminated

[wintry cloud]

We’re losing him guys

[remote wadi]

or they see us as barbarian animals

[storm jungle]

For real

im close to giving up

literally running around in circles

[modern rapids]

hmmmm I mean I get that yeah...

maybe keeping human emotions balanced would be better in balancing out the chaos gods

[crystal forum]

as far as we're aware, if the galaxy just stayed the way it was after the age of strife with humanity being fragmented, the galaxy would have been pretty peaceful other than the orks and the necrons which would awaken in 10k years

[modern rapids]

instead of fanatical theocracy or fanatical atheist regime

[remote wadi]

no thats chaos undivided

you always feed them unless ur an inocent child

[raven stone]

I mean, a part of it is that humans are stupid, but if you want an in universe explanation of why Imperial authority figures are so short sighted…basically, most human governors have given up trying to be good and just decide to squeeze their power and enjoy as much as they can, whilst the Terran government forces them to care enough to pay the Tithes (planetary scale taxes), would be my take.

[modern rapids]

Huh? He never even really talked about them with the Primarchs?

I always thought the Chaos managed to corrupt them besides the Big E trying to sway them out of it/telling them the truth

[crystal forum]

emperor being a neglectful parent is like the main theme of HH series lol

[modern rapids]

How was that supposed to work out?

Like could you open that up to me? I have no clue about that part

[crystal forum]

also being very stupid

[remote wadi]

theres only 2 ways to not feed chaos,you either too dum to be emotionally manipulated or a full on psycopath that refuses to workhip

[storm jungle]

Crimson you need to start reading the lexicanum man

lmao

[raven stone]

Nope, Emperor kept majority of Imperium in the dark about Warp and Chaos during his waking era.

[modern rapids]

So the "best thing to do" for humanity in 40k would just be to accept extinction?

[storm jungle]

For fuck sakes

[remote wadi]

finish the webway project

[hallow plover]

This is peak morning lorechat

[remote wadi]

and find a way out of warp connection

[wintry cloud]

It is

[crystal forum]

there's an insane amount of humans in the galaxy, like an incomprehensible amount of them. humanity was never really facing extinction

[wintry cloud]

Tears running down my eyes

[remote wadi]

or embrace the end and join chaos undivided

[storm jungle]

Im vomiting and crying rn

[modern rapids]

I mean whats the better option for them? That is what I am trying to get

[storm jungle]

kimo

if oyu say chaos undivided one more time

im gonna fucking drop a fridge on you

[remote wadi]

[modern rapids]

if you say "there are no options" then that just seems like they arent evil...

its all necessary, nothing can be avoided, there is no moral actions etc.

[crystal forum]

meanwhile when you see all the xenos that were completely exterminated... makes you wonder why humanity should be the golden goose all of a sudden

[modern rapids]

seems like pure chaos

not good

not evil

just IS

[storm jungle]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

[modern rapids]

just chaos

like what am I missing here?

[misty vector]

no def evil

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/tweaking-wegeekinghard-blud-tiktok-animatronic-tweaking-gif-18331326635054461479

"How are they evil guys"

[remote wadi]

it could have all be stopped before 30k

[storm jungle]

"It seems justified guys"

[remote wadi]

but now yeah

[storm jungle]

"How can they be evil guys"

"Becaues evil aliens guys"

[remote wadi]

in current year is too fcked

[storm jungle]

💀

[hallow plover]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-27443459

[storm jungle]

literally

lmao

[misty vector]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cat-attack-kill-blood-gif-1349154516246027732

[crystal forum]

why does humanity deserve to exist but not all the xenos species it exterminated

[remote wadi]

tau is the only way

[storm jungle]

i mean emperor

[remote wadi]

i said it

[modern rapids]

Yeah I would agree

[remote wadi]

tau only galaxy best galaxy

[modern rapids]

They are just high risk high reward

[wintry cloud]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/GxdjtDdWIAA19YB.gif

[raven stone]

Ok a short succinct example would do.
Imperium could try to form an official, long term alliance with the T’au.
Imperium doesn’t, because absolute Xenocide/Xenophobia policies.
Also, Adeptus Mechanicus do not like sharing technology, and would oppose such an alliance.

[misty vector]

tau is prob the closest youd get to a star trek type galaxy

[crystal forum]

tau suck too (shocker)

[misty vector]

another flavor of imperialism

[modern rapids]

Well what I am trying to get is a better alternative to them...

if you can't give me one... sounds like they are the best option, no?

The best they can do in their own circumstances in the fucked up40k universe

[storm jungle]

Im gonna say this for the last time.

**Nobody asked the Emperor to make the Imperium be a totalitarian genocidal fascist shithole. He actively chose the way of conquest and mass-genocide instead of essentially creating a federation with at best humans ontop while welcoming any peaceful or well-meaning aliens to its borders or ranks. **

Everything the current Imperium was and is now is due to the Emperor's tyrannical vision. The endless boundless amount of human suffering that feeds Chaos was also at the end of the day ALL his fault.

He could have done literally any other way of empire building to avoid this and establish something akin to the Empire of Man from Warhammer Fantasy like how Sigmar did for example as a policy, but he just didn't because at the day hes just like any simple tyrant with a small mind who thinks hes ontop of the world while claiming being also not a total god.

For god sakes

READ.

https://tenor.com/view/read-gif-25879491

[remote wadi]

actually the tau ending is the best cause the tau wont feed chaos gods and they arent against their leadership

aka they will gladly live in harmony

[crystal forum]

it's important to remember that the emperor is explicitly depicted as not in the right even in the setting.

[storm jungle]

^

[remote wadi]

if imperium wins we get horus heresy 2 eventually

[wintry cloud]

But he’s not talking about our world guys

[storm jungle]

AUAUUGUHGHGHG

[modern rapids]

I mean in our world I would most definitely agree...

But I am not quite convinced it was an option in their world...

Like humanity not being unified under a dictator in the 40k universe seems like a dead humanity to me... extinct, overpowered by chaos and by Xenos

[storm jungle]

I swear if i see another "our world" or "justified IN-UNIVERSE" im done

[storm jungle]

OH MY GOD

[wintry cloud]

LMAOOOO

[storm jungle]

STOP SAYING "OUR WORLD"

JUST STOP

LMAO

[remote wadi]

as the average human u will think the empirium is good

cause if you dont u die

[storm jungle]

im genuinely gonna eat my fucking socks

[misty vector]

the emperor had the choice to just not do it

[remote wadi]

you turn to chaos you still die

[crystal forum]

also btw "our world" has happened in 40k already

[storm jungle]

[raven stone]

You can think of it this way: Mankind has been left to pick up the bits and pieces of The Emperor’s failed project, so to speak. The irony is that the very system that enables humanity to have some sort of staying power is also designed by said Emperor, but then is obviously not fit for purpose because in the process of creating a human utopia,it ended up being a dystopia all humanity is stuck with.

[modern rapids]

I keep saying it cause I just am getting the vibe that ya'll think I am some weird "noticer" trying to justify the Empire cause I wanna bring it out in the real world or smthng... but maybe I am overanalyzing

[remote wadi]

abbadon needs to win so bile can do homus novius than humanity can live

i said it

[misty vector]

maybe he couldve tried to make some leto II type galaxy but that wouldnt be very good either

[modern rapids]

THANK YOU! This is basically what I have been looking for 😭

[storm jungle]

Nobody is saying. We are saying it because your idea of the Imperium being "justified" "in-universe" is mistaken.

why is this so hard to get

stop mentioning our world man, jesus

[wintry cloud]

So you’re good now?

[remote wadi]

the evidence even in world empirium isnt seen as good is chaos cultists

[storm jungle]

My favorite part is how we've been saying that shit for the last 30m

but now it gets picked

[wintry cloud]

Yeah

[storm jungle]

lol

[remote wadi]

they quite literally start as anti empirium basic humans

[modern rapids]

oh this reminds me; Why did the Necrons awaken? Was there some specific reason or was their awakening just automatically timed?

[raven stone]

Kinda semi automatic

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necron

Read.

[crystal forum]

yeah the wiki is better than me here. im not much of a necron lore knower

[wintry cloud]

That’s alot of information ye

[modern rapids]

Yeah this is basically what I was looking for...

that like if Humanity did not act like it did, everything would have still been fine... and not just fine but actually better for everyone, Humans, the Xenos etc.

[storm jungle]

[wintry cloud]

Uh huh.

[remote wadi]

but if the emperor didnt act the way he did we wouldnt have wh40k

so thanks for making my tabletop work asshole

[crystal forum]

this could have all been avoided if primarchs had a mom

[remote wadi]

they had one

[raven stone]

Also any attempts to think of whether IoM is justified falls flat when you remember GW can always just add extra population numbers lol

[modern rapids]

Well not "balanced" in the sense that you have all these different extreme emotions, but in the sense that you would have less negative emotions due to a balanced outlook on the human condition.

"Sure religion could bring about Chaos, but state enforced atheism would also bring about Chaos due to the immense repression the people would feel, thus feeding Chaos"

[remote wadi]

the emperor just didnt like her

[crystal forum]

a real mom not a test tube scientist

[raven stone]

Yes Imperium is not meant to be a hard science fiction with solid numbers.

[modern rapids]

I mean yeah, no matter what humans are going to act selfish. just say "fuck it" and try to get the best outcome for their own ass, while dooming others

[remote wadi]

fair

guilliman did have a mom

[modern rapids]

ahhh I see, I thought that was all like Chaos/Horus Heresy propaganda

[remote wadi]

and he turned out kinda ok

[modern rapids]

So Ogryn good boy? 🥺

[modern rapids]

Yeah I probably do 😭

[crystal forum]

no he very much fucked over a bunch of his sons and then pitted them against eachother without giving them any real explanations

[remote wadi]

yes

[storm jungle]

No. You do now.

[raven stone]

The Horus Heresy novels are about as close to “truth” as we could get, whilst a lot of the Imperial faction codex books are laden with propaganda takes.

[celest cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/breakfast-tv-bt-toronto-sid-seixeiro-gif-9062529532753501482

I just tuned back in

this is my live react

[remote wadi]

but i will be honest chaos would prolly emerge anyways

[storm jungle]

Its chaos 💀

[remote wadi]

but it would be weaker

[modern rapids]

Oh yeah that thing, Why did the Emperor not do that in his fight against Chaos?

Was it because it would mean the loss of souls?

[wintry cloud]

You missed all the fun

He chilled out

[raven stone]

+100 channel notifications and growing? XD

[remote wadi]

cause magnus fcked it up

[crystal forum]

and that's why he's so depressed

[celest cedar]

I was at the edge of my seat reading real life fascist regimes

[remote wadi]

and HH happen before expected

[crystal forum]

we love our sadboy girlyman

[wintry cloud]

Awesome friday morning

[modern rapids]

is there some "list" of xenos species that were made extinct by humans during the great crusade?

[crystal forum]

probably on the lexi

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=List_of_xenos&redirect=no

[crystal forum]

during the HH books alone i can think of like 4

[modern rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/hannibal-lecter-hannibal-sparkles-in-japan-hannibal-sparkles-and-champagne-hannigram-gif-17299850887994228097

[crystal forum]

the snake people, the planet murder, the intersex

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/vermintide-warpfire-skaven-clan-skryre-warpfire-thrower-gif-12960378359470831154

[raven stone]

He…got interrupted, the webway was damaged, and then Emperor couldn’t return to finish it on account on being mortally wounded, and nobody else knows how to fix the thing.

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Horus_Heresy

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/War_Within_the_Webway

[modern rapids]

Yeah okay this is a good practical example.

From the little I know, I think Tau would and are willing to work with humans for the "greater good" or would this inherently include the Tau ruling over the humans?

[remote wadi]

but the tau endgame is the best

[crystal forum]

oh god we're getting into niche HH lore now

[remote wadi]

they dont exterminate species, they keep planets working fine and they all love their jobs

[full obsidian]

Tau also are very authoritarian, just not super genocidal levels that the other faction are at

[modern rapids]

hmmmm...

Okay now I wonder why I have gotten the idea that "emperor=good. Imperial cult=bad because they corrupted his message"

[storm jungle]

Because you havent read any of the material.

or like actual books.

[remote wadi]

but honestly if the imperium didnt rise necrons would prolly rule the galaxy even harder

[raven stone]

Humans would become over-dependent on Tau. Tau evil is more akin to Civilized European Empires colonialism.

[modern rapids]

People have mentioned that the xenocide was to mask Chaos... but like how does that make any sense? what even is the explanation for that?

[remote wadi]

and we would get the necrons crazy endgame

[storm jungle]

Bro for the love of god. Do not listen to "people".

READ THE LORE.

READ THE LEXICANUM

[wintry cloud]

I don’t even think watching youtubers would give you that opinion like
Genuinely, what have you been watching?

[remote wadi]

anyways it was all fcked anyways but at least we would be exterminated peacefully

[raven stone]

During Horus Heresy, Emperor wanted to keep demons an absolute secret, but as we say…a terrible idea, to say the least.

[misty vector]

wonder what they would do, how could the necrons develop

[storm jungle]

I feel like an Inquisitor rn

"His brain is beyond irreparable, the infection has reached too far."

[modern rapids]

Okay yeah then I am completely mistaken on his character.

As I said I thought that the Emperor was good but the imperial cult corrupted his message

[raven stone]

(Should we headbang the exterminatus button?)

[wintry cloud]

I actually wanna know what this dude has been looking at

[crystal forum]

it never really made sense to me personally. i dont think the imperium needed a reason to be xenophobic other than being bigoted

[storm jungle]

Beheading is better.

[storm jungle]

Youtube Shorts probably

and hearsay from other people

which is like literally the bubonic plague of information

[misty vector]

this 6000 year old dreadnought still shocks tau the old way

[near wasp]

Tbf xenos did prey on humanity during the age of strife

[storm jungle]

Humanity also preyed on humanity during the age of strife

[crystal forum]

the imperial cults thinks he's good but in reality he isn't. it's the opposite really

[wintry cloud]

Back to the start

[storm jungle]

humans literally foguht each other during DAOT lol

[storm jungle]

^^yeah can we like

genuinely not do this rn

lmao

last thing i fucking need is an "um akhsually"

[crystal forum]

and humanity probably preyed on xenos too. you have to keep in mind that EVERYBODY was fighting during the age of strife

[storm jungle]

👆

[near wasp]

True

[crystal forum]

it wasn't just a "fuck humanity in particular" period

[celest cedar]

its a galaxy free4all

[near wasp]

Humanity just couldn't travel well so they couldn't support each other well

[storm jungle]

I mean thats the most relaistic part

everything goes to shit

humans kill each other

[crystal forum]

internet goes down

time to grab a rock and kill my neighbour

[storm jungle]

mass genocide

[celest cedar]

for the good of humanity bro

didnt you know

[near wasp]

Your neighbor is a psyker and has created a warp rift gl bro

[celest cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/the-contract-twenty-one-pilots-josh-dun-tyler-joseph-pressure-duo-gif-5132097180999330073

[vagrant fox]

my neighbour is too noisy I'm gonna kill them the first chance I get when society gets fucked up

[modern rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/mewing-bird-gif-16835999897918525830

[storm jungle]

that message is from like 10m ago

[celest cedar]

Im the tiger

[storm jungle]

💀

[celest cedar]

whenever people are missing the point about something Im passionate about

[crystal forum]

age of strife is fun to think about because from what i can tell it's like a roadside picnic situation where nobody really knows that happened during that time but we have ample knowledge of its repercussions

[hallow plover]

https://tenor.com/view/she-still-suckin-color-out-of-space-nicolas-cage-when-you-nut-gif-19321848

[celest cedar]

galaxy free4all

[hallow plover]

Dilara this morning

[crystal forum]

and the dungeon under the imperial palace is filled with age of strife stuff that even the emperor couldnt kill

[celest cedar]

#theorycrafting wth is this channel even about I have it unlisted since forever

[crystal forum]

right???

[storm jungle]

channelcists.........

[near wasp]

Wow

[crystal forum]

when i joined the server i thought it was for theorizing about dakrtide builds

that was what people in it were talking about anyways

[rose thorn]

i assume its for like darktide lore and future updates

[hallow plover]

It's a speculating channel for the next darktide class

[celest cedar]

how...terribly unproductive

ngl bro

[hallow plover]

(spoiler: it's a genestealer SoS)

[celest cedar]

thats gameplay help

[crystal forum]

it should be deleted alongside zealot class channel

[vagrant fox]

i've heard enough about genestealers enough of this

[rose thorn]

lmao

[celest cedar]

man I remember the slow mode days

[rose thorn]

pls give me kelemorph pls pls pls

[celest cedar]

mfs scattered to the winds

and everyone is begging them to come back to #zealot-class 💀

[crystal forum]

yeah and they came here to complain about it

[vagrant fox]

I want gen chat on a 15 minute cooldown and ogryn class chat deleted

[wintry cloud]

Actually lemme check the gen chat rn

[crystal forum]

degen chat more like

[vagrant fox]

mild +2

[crystal forum]

wait

[hallow plover]

Tbh just merge all chats

[crystal forum]

sigsent here's a second clown pfp

in gen chat

a differnet worthikids clown

[vagrant fox]

gross kill them

[celest cedar]

well they individually acted as its own little containment chamber

[rose thorn]

tbf they gloss over the warcrimes and slavery and geniuine suffering of human life caused by the emperor pre hh

[wintry cloud]

Fair, i guess i stopped looking at YouTube lore awhile ago

[crystal forum]

the average 40k fan just wants to kill xenos and heretics it's just how it is

[celest cedar]

how to manufacture consent 40K edition: tell them the xenos are evil!!!

ooof yea the whole xenos bad thing is just the story of manufactured consent galaxy wide

[storm jungle]

it basically is the WW2 "stabbed us in the back" myth

[celest cedar]

YEA

[storm jungle]

except Hitler in this case is the Emperor

lmao

[vagrant fox]

At the best it's

video about how much the imperium sucks and actively pushes people to chaos to escape their shit chungus life
I would give EVERYTHING to be a space marine bro 😭

[wintry cloud]

Lmaoo

[storm jungle]

I would give EVERYTHING to be a space marine bro
dies during the first trial being mauled to death by macro-death-hamsters

[rose thorn]

theres some fucking fake ass lore making laps around the internet about civilizard worlds

i have no cleu what the source is

[crystal forum]

being a space marine might be fun if it's a chapter that doesnt give a fuck like night lords or world eaters

[rose thorn]

but people have been sayinf civilized worlds are like a nice modern day ish world

[wintry cloud]

I do hear people say this alot ngl

That the imperium has a very significant amount of “civilized” and nice worlds or sum

And its not all bad

[crystal forum]

being a space marine that actually cares would suck since you're basically always losing

[rose thorn]

YEAH LMAO

[storm jungle]

They are "nice" on the surface before you realise they are also industrial shitholes and mini-night cities

[vagrant fox]

There should be more stories about how aspirants eat shit by getting killed by the skinflensing mud of Shitholicus III of the Turbonightmare system

[modern rapids]

During the age of Technology, before the Emperor taking control.

Do we know to what extent humans allied with Xenos?

Like were humans and Xenos generally chill?

[wintry cloud]

Dude space marines still are like miserable in the grand scheme like

Those guys drop like flies still

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Technology

[wintry cloud]

LMAO

[rose thorn]

when youare genetically defeated by quick sand:

[crystal forum]

humanity wasn't a monolith so we do know of some humans that liked xenos and some that didnt

[storm jungle]

It was both.

Humans blew up humans and aliens blew up aliens and vice versa but there was a general "calm" to the galaxy.

Humans also actively made peacepacts with alien species.

[modern rapids]

I mean personally I think that the best possible existence in 40k for an individual would probably be nurgle worship and being chosen by nurgle... ofc given that Nurgle's influence on you never gets broken and you stay in the illusion of his love forever

[crystal forum]

if you're a CSM at least you have fun and then get to chill in the warp

[wintry cloud]

Oh im all for the dark gods

[crystal forum]

embrace being evil

[queen laurel]

it's true but civilized worlds is just a fancy term for a world with buildings in it

[wintry cloud]

I live to kill maim and burn

[storm jungle]

Lmao im responsible for that top image

[crystal forum]

hell yeah

[burnt maple]

Well, I would still be happy to be deemed worthy of that chance.
That would mean I am strong enough to try.

I succeeded? Nice, time to be a space marine.
I didn't? I wouldn't have a chance to be anything better anyway.

[storm jungle]

good reminder that civil worlds are still shitholes

[storm jungle]

Good job if you wanna be a mindless indoctrinated child soldier i guess

the US army is still open too

I MEAN

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-gets-flung-and-explodes-orange-cat-funny-cat-meme-explodes-gif-10706110874965244466

[rose thorn]

enviromentally specialized space marines bug me, like any battle longer than 12 hours and in anything that isnt a big dry field space marines get fucked lol

[crystal forum]

basically any world without a hive city lel

[vagrant fox]

rather get shanked 82 times by a underhive scavver who I saw I had a bottle of clean water, the most precious thing they'd ever seen

[modern rapids]

I see I see

[storm jungle]

Read the lexi.

[hardy knot]

yes but now you are a better than everyone esle

[celest cedar]

so is Gadriel that wealthy noble guy who thought fuck wealth Imma join the army backstory or is he like 10K years old

[storm jungle]

Not really

lmao

[wintry cloud]

Yeah and then you go to war and get hit by a nuclear bomb
Or a nurgle plague
Or the murder curse
Or a necron gauss
Or a tyranid eats you
Or a chaos marine kills you
And all your brothers die
And you’re a super nazi
And
And

[burnt maple]

It still is a life with purpose.

No need to laugh at it.

[hardy knot]

like all those things wont happen just because you go a different route

hell

[crystal forum]

if you genuinely dont care about him loving you it's pretty chill. you dont even have to like the chaos gods to get power from them as long as you do what they like

[storm jungle]

I dont think "purpose" in life is to die in a ditch

in a war no one cares about

[hardy knot]

probably more ways to die in a hive than in a battlefield

[crystal forum]

the chaos gods do not give a shit about people liking them

[burnt maple]

My point still stands.

[celest cedar]

man

I dont need to be a soldier

to have purpose in life bruh 😭

[storm jungle]

anyone who unironically wants to be a space marine legit is just unsettling

[storm jungle]

^

[rose thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/jerma-jerma985-china-american-century-of-humiliation-chinese-century-gif-7096481836828372770

[rose thorn]

how it feels to join a gsc

[celest cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/fact-checked-true-cowpoke-pooner-qianlong-gif-3827914201118197286

[crystal forum]

i want to be an unnamed guardsman who dies in a battle of apocalyptic proportions

[burnt maple]

Nor is slaving away in a manufactorum.

[storm jungle]

Cool. We arent talking about that.

always hate when people do this lmao

[burnt maple]

BRO

[storm jungle]

ALSO

[hardy knot]

me hitting the lotery and being born on an agri world

[storm jungle]

WHO SAID WORKING IN A FACTORUM IS GOOD

[storm jungle]

uhhh you do know how agriworlds are like right

[wintry cloud]

Round two:

[crystal forum]

embrace being a shitstain who dies quickly in battle

[burnt maple]

YOU are the one that preaches about not mixing our world with 40k

[hardy knot]

no

[burnt maple]

Make up your fucking mind

[storm jungle]

explains a lot, enjoy choking on chemicals

[crystal forum]

space marine pfp

[hardy knot]

BRUH

[storm jungle]

[storm jungle]

IM SERIOUS

[modern rapids]

I wasn't really talking about power at all, just existing in a state of "positive feelings" lmao.

Love, happiness, joy etc.

[vagrant fox]

Bloody pus pouring from his choking throat, the port master twitched. He was still alive and moaning as his body folded itself almost perfectly in half. Under normal circumstances, he would have died, but Grandfather Nurgle is kind, and wishes all those who are afflicted by his gifts to fully enjoy the experience, and so the man’s soul remained confined within his body. His eyes rolled madly even as they bloomed with cataracts and sank in upon themselves. His lips split, and his tongue turned black and fell from his mouth to writhe away like a salt-bathed slug. Stinking slurry pooled around him. His bowels leaked, his bladder inflated and burst. Still the man lived.

Nurgle is kind bro, trust

[hardy knot]

is there literally anywhere nice in this universe

[storm jungle]

Uhhh

[celest cedar]

nurgle loves you how an abuser loves someone and all that

[storm jungle]

uhhhhh

shit idk

[wintry cloud]

Conceptually obliterated

[rose thorn]

the embrace of the 4 armed emperor

[celest cedar]

like bro legit just wants to morph you into something that he loves (looking like horrible shit)

then he loves you presumably

[humble shoal]

Everyone knows the paradise worlds are greay places to live with absolutely no flaws whatsoever

[crystal forum]

oh khorne is my favorite for that. as long as you keep killing you're happy. it's just like me frfr!!

[queen laurel]

go ahead, burn that family, burn them

[hardy knot]

like i know theres only war is the motto of 40k but god damn

[storm jungle]

Wdym "not mixing" that was in relation to Crimson just constantly parroting the concept of morality we have IRL to warhammer.

GW themselves have said the Imperium is satirical thus having it be a mirror IRL by saying its the display of the worst aspects of humanity.

[celest cedar]

its a galaxy wide death cult man

glorifying war and sh

uh yea fascism

[hardy knot]

is being a serf atleast midly safe

[vagrant fox]

no

[humble shoal]

Fuck that promethium ruins the meat

[hardy knot]

fuck

[crystal forum]

krieg's biggest haters

[celest cedar]

aaah abusive relationship

[rose thorn]

there is no where for humans in the galaxy, they live in a hell of their own creation

[celest cedar]

didnt they have sex slaves too yea?

[humble shoal]

Pretty much 90% of the populations are slaves

[celest cedar]

holy shit

[wintry cloud]

Still do iirc
All of them kinda do

[rose thorn]

paradise worlds are paradise for the uber rich nobility they are probably one of the worst worlds ot be working class on

[modern rapids]

I mean yeah guess this all comes down to how much Chaos propaganda or Imperial propaganda you digest.

/how much you are affected by Nurgle's illusion.

If you percieve all this horrid shit as the most pleasurable event possible due to Nurgle's influence, then it isn't really suffering and horrible for you...

Then again this all depends on how much if at all that is the case for the average Nurgle worshipper

[wintry cloud]

Slaves dont have rights so

[storm jungle]

Um excuse me

[rose thorn]

if you ahev ever worked on a cruise ship

[storm jungle]

we refer to it as SERFDOM

[burnt maple]

Well. To omit half the convo "us army is still recruiting "

Or something like that.

[humble shoal]

On paradise worlds?

[hardy knot]

cathedrals dont have extreme doctrines sound good

[humble shoal]

They even go with that pretense

[storm jungle]

well yeah because its in the same vein, "I wanna go die in a war nobody wants to take part in because its a purpose in life"

[crystal forum]

paradise in this context just means the biosphere isnt trying to constantly kill you and the world isn't destroyed by pollution lol

[storm jungle]

Eppstein's Island, enough said.

[humble shoal]

Yeah thats why I said 90% are slaves

[celest cedar]

I thought it was obvious that nurgles love is highly highly conditional 💀

[burnt maple]

Which mixes what we would like in 40k and here.

[modern rapids]

Well idk if Khorne worshippers are "happy" so to say, they are just immensly angry all the time and feel the smallest of sliver of satisfaction when they sink their blade in to someone

[celest cedar]

and even then you dont benefit at all

[humble shoal]

10% are the planetary nobility's bastards

[storm jungle]

[burnt maple]

Here? No fucking chance.

[rose thorn]

we are talking about imperium civilized paradise worlds

[vagrant fox]

Nurgle's just a slayqueen of gaslighting and abusive relationships, it's not good

[storm jungle]

They are definitely happy

lol

[humble shoal]

Real question is are slaaneshi cultists really happy?

[crystal forum]

ye me too. paradise just means it looks good. it's not a paradise to live in though

[celest cedar]

oh god it would defintely be the shit paradise worlds would do bro 😭

[storm jungle]

Happy until they need their next high

literally

[vagrant fox]

anyway I post my recent favourite meme again as I'm off to the store

[humble shoal]

Yeah

[storm jungle]

like, we dont largely care about the shit rich people do to their servants here. Imagine it in 40k, literally no fucking escape whatsoever. No one cares about you.

[humble shoal]

Just numbing the thirst

[crystal forum]

it's like how the caribeans look beautiful but are just poor countries where rich people go for tourism!!

[rose thorn]

shout out to hwen my mom almost died when working on a crusie ship (and got zero compensation)

[humble shoal]

Pleasure servitors