40k-lore-chat

[sturdy linden]

Because this is one of the worse places in the worst sci-fi setting.

[daring creek]

Booooo

40k sucks

[sturdy linden]

well yeah

[daring creek]

I was told it would be a happy story where everyone smiles

This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!

@storm jungle As far as I know, you're a 40k lore buff. Tell me everyone has a good ending. Please tell me theres some shed of hope.

[slow quarry]

I mean what do you expect from a place where cloning is daily business? People do not have much personality to be something else than tired

[remote wadi]

There's a good ending

[storm jungle]

no lol

[daring creek]

Everyone fucking DYING?

[burnt maple]

Hm. I don't think a book about the bleakest people in the setting is a place to look for grimdark in other color than tired gray.

[remote wadi]

Exactly

[daring creek]

Because thats all I'm seeing

[slow quarry]

Well, that's life

[daring creek]

just KILL EVERYONE INSTANTLY

[storm jungle]

Go into grimdark fandom
Read book
Is grimdark

[sturdy linden]

You should read Imperial Glory. The end shows exactly the kind of hope Warhammer is all about.

[burnt maple]

You want grimdark in different colors? Read other books, not a krieg one.

[remote wadi]

But if you want the feel good feeling read about the eldar pre slaneesh

It was tchill

[daring creek]

Like right now I'm wondering, would it be better if Jurten didn't fucking nuke the planet

Or

[sturdy linden]

good point. there's Exodites

[daring creek]

Would the citizens still be screwed over to meet to an even worse fate

[sturdy linden]

err. he did.

[daring creek]

Probably

[remote wadi]

Hey we also have goofy shit

The orks

[daring creek]

I KNOW

I AM READING THE BOOK

[remote wadi]

The deamons that is so scary he scares vehicles

[sturdy linden]

well!

[daring creek]

The planet is beyond fucking uninhabitable

[burnt maple]

There are books that dont even go into 40k as 40k, no? Some criminal book...

[sturdy linden]

some machine spirits are made from less stern steel than others!

[daring creek]

wait wait

Theres someone to blame even more

the machine spirits of the bombs

those sick fucks

[slow quarry]

were they tired too`?

[burnt maple]

Fuck you mean.

[sturdy linden]

they're doing their omnissiah-appointed duty. you can't fault them for what others made them to be.

[burnt maple]

^

[slow quarry]

^

[daring creek]

They could've gone "Hmm, maybe nuking everyone isn't the right choice"

[daring creek]

They can do better!!!!

[sturdy linden]

have you ever watched the movie "Dark Star?"

[slow quarry]

Excuse me, are we a bit heretek today?

[daring creek]

Nope

[sturdy linden]

(it has a bouncy ball!)

[burnt maple]

Alright, bro is ragebaiting. Disperse.

[daring creek]

I thought it was clear earlier I was joking around

This shits sad dawg 😭

[burnt maple]

To some degree

[sturdy linden]

well it is basically about a nuke that thinks "wait, maybe I should not?" and then deciding "ah well, it is literally the point of my existence, might as well"

[storm jungle]

I didnt get any "ragebait" vibes lol

[burnt maple]

Then you went a bit more serious xD

[daring creek]

Eh? lmfao

[burnt maple]

And I lost the track.

[daring creek]

Fair enough I guess

[storm jungle]

Banned.

[daring creek]

A bit more serious when..

I said we should blame machine spirits?

[burnt maple]

You went a tiny bit too into it xD

[daring creek]

😭

bruh.

Those such and such soldiers killed all those innocent people? no they're not to blame, the machine spirits did it!

[storm jungle]

The Imperium is evil. More at 11 🫡

[slow quarry]

Do not blame the creation of the Omnissiah, simpleton.

[daring creek]

The Imperium is bad?

Since when

[storm jungle]

Lmao

anyway, slavery

[daring creek]

kek

[burnt maple]

BLAM! Move along, troopers. Nothing to see here.

[sturdy linden]

they do so much worse than that. Unless ... well, servitors technically are slaves, too.

[daring creek]

Anyway I said Krieg is awful because man everything is just more awful than it was before

[storm jungle]

ıts just one example but yes

[daring creek]

shit can go south so fast in just a few pages

[sturdy linden]

read imperial glory.

[slow quarry]

^

[daring creek]

soon soon I need to complete Horus Heresy after this

[sturdy linden]

stop ragebaiting!

[daring creek]

Then I wanna read Mechanicum

[rocky gale]

Yes the Imperium are infact the bad guys, now about the good guys..

[burnt maple]

If your original point was to underline this... Yeah, Krieg books aren't ones to look for flavor even of grimdark xD

[daring creek]

I mean obviously yeah lmfao,

[storm jungle]

I always find it funny how sad/upset people get over some of these books while my reaction to reading Krieg was like:

[daring creek]

Looking at the fucking cover dude

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patchy-the-pirate-thats-it-disappointed-gif-27280238

"Wow this book sucks."

[daring creek]

Kills you!!!!!

[storm jungle]

[glossy sonnet]

me when i read the white scars heresy books

[sturdy linden]

Krieg's on my to-read list personally, since I never found the faceless mask dude clones terribly interesting myself.

[arctic talon]

You see thats just the natural order of things

Everyone else is inferior to the drukhari

[daring creek]

They're not tbh

[arctic talon]

Do you feel bad for the piece of meat on your plate

I mean probably not

[storm jungle]

You very much are not really missing anything, the book is very mid

[daring creek]

Krieg doesn't have a lot going for them beyond aesthetics.

[storm jungle]

just like every novel Lyons writes lol

[arctic talon]

therfore the drukhari are morally superior/j

Lyons has written one good book

[burnt maple]

Kinda does. Nothing discovering. Albeit it is sort of nice to see them, you know. Give face to the voice, so to say, cuz understanding is a wrong word xD

[arctic talon]

and then everything else was mid

lol

[daring creek]

However

[glossy sonnet]

Whats all of your favorite books

[daring creek]

a book I NEED to finish is Eisenhorn

good shit

[glossy sonnet]

Im listening to hereticus rn

[arctic talon]

for 40k

[rocky gale]

Hey now, Drukhari aren't racist. We're the most accepting faction

[sturdy linden]

the nicest faction are the Tau, who are a slightly less nice (and much less powerful) version of Super-Earth.

[rocky gale]

We got these things working for us and they get a fair wage

[burnt maple]

I like Astartes focused books. Especially the scenes showing their more human side.

[arctic talon]

as for my actual favorite sci-fi book

I like the Red mars trilogy a lot

[slow quarry]

Eisenhorn is interesting, but my favourites are the mechanicus books

[remote wadi]

True Ur assholes to everyone equally

[sturdy linden]

difficult to say, but my top 5 would be
Flesh&Steel
Bloodlines
the entire Kain series
the Eisenhorn Omnibus
Imperial Glory

[daring creek]

Also it's probably because you're more hardened to 40k lore than others are. Which makes me worried how bad it's going to get in other books

[storm jungle]

my top 7

[misty vector]

i wouldnt say the tau are less nice than super earth, the tau are actually open to diplomacy with enemies

[rocky gale]

Unlike those dastardly Tau who deceive their auxiliaries with lies about Greater Good. We Drukhari hire Xenos with cold hard cash

[daring creek]

[rocky gale]

Nothing fairer than that

[arctic talon]

watcher in the rain isn't a book

Also I should probably make a compilation of my top 5 40k books lol

[storm jungle]

same shit

shut up bitch

[arctic talon]

no

die

[storm jungle]

yes

AA-

https://tenor.com/view/sakamoto-nichijou-cat-plush-death-gif-9178639101841172402

[burnt maple]

Rekt.

[daring creek]

Wait are all Imperium Assassins blanks? I forgot the name for them specifically

Assassino officio

[burnt maple]

Culexus trmple

[daring creek]

whatever it is

[rocky gale]

See it would have worked if you'd posted it in a gif version rather than saying it

[sturdy linden]

only this one specific temple which has, like, 500 active operatives

[arctic talon]

https://tenor.com/view/siegfried-gbf-gbf-siegfried-jumping-gbfrvs-gif-5679191260596132130

[slow quarry]

actually I enjoy writing more than reading within 40k in terms of being a storyteller in the pen and paper settings.

[storm jungle]

Only Culexus.

[daring creek]

Ah.

Oh well.

[burnt maple]

Same. I plan to write my own book.

[daring creek]

If I was a 40k author I would make everyone happy....

[remote wadi]

I gave it a try on making tau that weren't from the tau empire

But my entire permisse felt when tau mains told me the feromones thing wasn't canon

[slow quarry]

Nice, about what? Finished my 3rd set of 10 Chapters for my players a few years ago

[sturdy linden]

... like the Farsight Enclave?

[remote wadi]

No like they didn't even know the tau empire

Like tau that were grandchildren of taus that couldn't go back to the empire

For a lot of reasons

[sturdy linden]

ah, a lost colony ship

[slow quarry]

I think GW is looking for young authors for some storys about successor chapters

[remote wadi]

More like multiple lost planets and ships

That then get toghter cause the tau empire wants to end them

[rocky gale]

Not currently, but they do put out calls every now and then

[sturdy linden]

so if you've always been itching to write a sad, sad novel about the lamenters, maybe the only space marine chapter who are only occasionally complete dicks ...

[glossy sonnet]

Ooh

[remote wadi]

But now if I write something I'm gonna write on one of the unclaimed chaos realms

[burnt maple]

Eh. Probably an Astartes focused book. Will try to capture their perception of duty and how it may affect mortals around them.

[remote wadi]

Free creativity for idealogy and deamons

[arctic talon]

The Lamenters are great at making horrible decisions

lol

the one time something horrific happened to them and wasn't by their own actions

was the time they got lost in the warp

[slow quarry]

Since I only do Rogue Trader Stories and Inquisition Stories I'm not into that topic of applying to become an author but honestly if you do Astartes Things and its one of the successor chapters this could be something to consider for you? I meand send them your stories and see if they are interested or not since they are looking

[sturdy linden]

Their chapter curse is "make the wrong choice for the right reasons, every time"

[arctic talon]

Nah they could have tapped out early in Badab

they stayed to the bitter end lol

[sturdy linden]

because they took this honour thing too serious.

[glossy sonnet]

LAMEnters

[arctic talon]

💀

[burnt maple]

More of a philosophical lecture, rather than drama.

[burnt maple]

Send whom?

[sturdy linden]

James

[slow quarry]

GW, they are open for fanstories and as far as i know they look for young authors who are writing about the successor chapters

[opaque coyote]

I think the only real awful decision was the Badab War.

That was a situation where they chose the worst possible path.

The others were things that they knew would happen, or just complete fucking accidents.

Getting stuck in the warp moment

[burnt maple]

Will try, I think.

[opaque coyote]

I do like the Lamenters as most of the time it's their calculated decision to damn themselves.

[slow quarry]

Yeah give it a shot if you like 🙂

[opaque coyote]

Except the Badab War

That was

100% the worst thing

they could've possibly chosen

"I took a calculated risk but man am I bad at math"

[sturdy linden]

that's their curse

[burnt maple]

Laati, remember:

[sturdy linden]

yes

[rocky gale]

That was a limited time thing about 2 years ago, they already accepted and published the applicants they approved of.

[opaque coyote]

huh

[burnt maple]

Astartes are naturally autistic beyond our comprehension. And Lamenters finally found people who wanted to talk to them.

[slow quarry]

Ah good to know, I'm not up to date with this because reasons i've wrote above

[rocky gale]

But they do something like that annually, so it's just a case of waiting for them to post about it next year

[opaque coyote]

,,,yk what

fair point

Actually

[slow quarry]

that's also good to know, thanks!

[opaque coyote]

Y'know what would be funny

[burnt maple]

All Astartes openly agree that honor and bro code comes above logic.

[opaque coyote]

What if the entire screening process to see if you're a viable Space Marine candidate is just to see if you have autism

[rocky gale]

This years piece was "A conversation/scene between two named characters from a Warhammer setting" but it's passed as well, so yea just need to wait until next years to see what it will be

[opaque coyote]

Like they just give the typical "Test child if they have autism"

[sturdy linden]

because socially and mentally, they never grew beyong, like, 10.

[opaque coyote]

And then if they fail, they're kicked out

[slow quarry]

Yeah because their social intelligence is kept in some sort of childish state

[opaque coyote]

If they succeed, then they become a candidate

the tism test

[burnt maple]

When captains of Ubermarinen companies argued over the course of action and cpt. Of 1st company said that logic dictates ghis course, a fucking chaplain asked him "since when we value logic above honor?" Or something like that xD

[young pecan]

The Hung Lore

[storm jungle]

bro is definitely Hung

[opaque coyote]

warcock 40k

[burnt maple]

So, yeah. I know Astartes are children in a quite literal meaning of that word.

[sturdy linden]

very buff child soldiers of the emperor

[storm jungle]

my favorite part is these submissions are SO heavily moderated and small in freedom that why would you ever bother even participating lol

[sturdy linden]

I dunno, I mean a 500 words scene where eisenhorn and obi-wan sherlock clouseau meet ...

[young pecan]

Moderated how?

[rocky gale]

My favourite part is when GW announce the submission window has closed and announced the ones they've chosen and then all the people who got rejected post their submissions to Reddit

[slow quarry]

lol

[rocky gale]

Some are quite good and are a case of "Maybe a tad too daring for GW" while others are oooof

[slow quarry]

Obiwan-Sherlock-Clousseau, best Inquisitor ever.

They even would have a topic

to discuss

[burnt maple]

What kind of ooooof?

[sturdy linden]

and both have had gw minis produced for them AT SOME POINT.

[obtuse laurel]

https://youtu.be/SCxwjlgjzvw

[rocky gale]

One for the two character submissions was rejected because they decided to ignore the premise and included like 5 major named characters, it was like a scene out of the Avengers

[obtuse laurel]

Or austin powers the psyker

[slow quarry]

Imagine you must read through pages of this sort of 'oooof'

for days

lol

[burnt maple]

So a bad oooof.

[sturdy linden]

and since you're the intern you're not even paid

[rocky gale]

It was like Ahriman, Eldrad, Mephiston and two other characters

[arctic talon]

OSC never had a mini produced

he does have art though

lol

[vagrant fox]

That's the dealbreaker right there, I'd happily do it for a pay

[arctic talon]

honestly I wonder how much garbage the poor people running the thing have to read through everytime lol

[slow quarry]

Wasn't there the magazine of the first or second generation where also the female astartes where? Sculpted by Bob Naysmith?

[arctic talon]

No

It was just a generic inqusitor model

[slow quarry]

I mean it was the first Rogua Trader stuff

[arctic talon]

if you wanted to make OSC out of it

you needed to do some chopping + freehand

[lament shoal]

Yup, nothing more goofy than an ork feeding an live infant to a bunch of squigs

[arctic talon]

and also greenstuff

This is the mini

Its not the same

[sturdy linden]

well, close enough?

[arctic talon]

eh

[remote wadi]

The story about the orks of khorne is funny ok

Yes it involves perma war

And death

But it is quite funny

[burnt maple]

Happy ending in 40k.

[slow quarry]

But didn't he said something about a sculpture he made in the 80s in the Rogue Trader Flyer?

[lament shoal]

Jack Black

[slow quarry]

I mean they were the first little somethings and not really as elaborate as the series that came after since it was merely the beginning

[sturdy linden]

http://solegends.com/citads1988a/198802RT1/fly8899rt1f4-01.jpg <--- um, this catalog has this exact mini, but unpainted? no greenstuff required (save for what is necessary to make these weird old tin cast models work)

[arctic talon]

Again

its not OSC

he's got a necklace + weapon is wrong

you do need to do conversion

OSC has a chainsword

the mini has a shotgun

[remote wadi]

There's evidence of this not being true

I would say marines just have geneseed brotherhood that corrupts their individuality

But overall they do have some maturity

With some exceptions

[sturdy linden]

some 10-year-olds are surprisingly mature.

[slow quarry]

I mean I would stick with what the officials say about if OSC had a sculpt or not, guess its some topic you can discuss a lot. I'm really not sure about it

[remote wadi]

Cmon a 10year old won't understand about the complexities of dealing with chaos

[slow quarry]

There are no complexities, you shoot them

[remote wadi]

Or politics

[slow quarry]

They don't do politics because they don't need to

[remote wadi]

Marines have hierarchies and unit control

[slow quarry]

Yeah this is military knowledge, not politically

[sturdy linden]

I meant emotionally and socially, not cognitively. cognitively marines are far ahead of most people but emotionally they're still children.

[remote wadi]

10year olds only think father or mother is authority

[sturdy linden]

while marines think their gene-father is authority.

[slow quarry]

But marines do think Primarchs are authority, no?

[remote wadi]

Yes but also warlords

[slow quarry]

Yeah i mean there is also a grandfather

and an uncle

[sturdy linden]

well most children will accept uncles and teachers as authorities too

[remote wadi]

Ok emotionally they are kids

[slow quarry]

an they have authority too

[remote wadi]

But that's how you avoid chaos tbh

Kids are pure

[sturdy linden]

well yes.

[slow quarry]

Yeah its very effective

If they really need to think about the complexities of chaos beyond 'kill it' they would be curruptible.

[sturdy linden]

or question their parent's authority.

instead of looking to please and appease them

as the emperor made them

[burnt maple]

New layers of fucked up shit! Using child psychology as a weapon against hell.

[slow quarry]

Yeah!

[sturdy linden]

it is the 41st millenium ...

[slow quarry]

... and humanity's hope are very buffed child-soldiers.

[sturdy linden]

😄

[slow quarry]

I mean they usually are not allowed to rule they homeworlds for a reason. There are exceptions. But it's not what they should do or for what they were built initially.

[sturdy linden]

Most of them are clearly not capable of ruling anything. Well, the smurfs are good at it because that is what their daddy was made for, but ... like ... just look at the Iron Hands.

[slow quarry]

Yeah because the smurfs are the smurfs and therefore oh so special 🙄

[arctic talon]

They aren’t the rulers on ultramar

Funnily enough

There’s an actual planetary govenor

[slow quarry]

Some sort of a puppet because they are somewhat accepted as semi-autonomous since it's Roboute and he is special

[remote wadi]

The ultramarines are lame tho

[sturdy linden]

Technically correct (unless you count the regent, who is the governor's boss, the leader fo the smurfs)

[slow quarry]

They are ultralame

[remote wadi]

Imagine having to fight a very specific way and expect Ur opponent to not just be fully ready for it

[arctic talon]

Which is Guilliman now

And then he delegated it to like 4 other nerds

lol

[sturdy linden]

yeah

[arctic talon]

They don’t do that though

[slow quarry]

But he is still in charge

[arctic talon]

Guilliman?

Yeah technically

[remote wadi]

Don't they have to follow the codex

[arctic talon]

But he’s more of a rubber stamp

[remote wadi]

Ya know the codex other primarchs know

[arctic talon]

The codex is a guidebook, not law

There’s only 1 chapter we know of that follows the codex to the letter and treats it as holy law

And it’s an imperial fists sucessor lol

[remote wadi]

Also guilliman is a failure of a governor

[sturdy linden]

I mean running the imperium in entirety by yourself is pretty hard even if you are 200 super-psyker shamans in a trenchcoat (actually even he had his butler Malcador deal with much of the more tedious stuff).

[arctic talon]

Tbh the emperor delegated

lol

[remote wadi]

The emperor also delegated horus

[slow quarry]

The emperor would not want to have an Imperium like it is in 40k

[remote wadi]

Why we following his delegations for godsake

[arctic talon]

Because

Its 40k

and I like how shit it is

[sturdy linden]

because it is his last order and the entire thing has been on pause until new orders are given

[arctic talon]

The Imperium is going to fall anyways

[sturdy linden]

which he can't but since he also is respawn locked in his throne and cannot die there's no way out of that.

[arctic talon]

GW just won't pull the trigger till the setting stops selling

lol

which at this rate I find highly unlikely

[remote wadi]

Alpharios is the true sucessor by law of first son

He was raised in terra

It's his right

[arctic talon]

thats not how the imperium works

[slow quarry]

Well they will do some stuff about the Ultramarines and Guilliman and another 10k long research from Cawl to make Primaris 2.0 or some shit

[arctic talon]

The Emperor was going to rule forever and there was no law of sucession

[arctic talon]

if 40k in its current iteration stops selling, they are going to nuke it WHFB style

and hard reboot it lol

we know they had plans to hard reboot 40k if 8e didn't sell well

(8e did sell well so said hard reboot never happened)

[remote wadi]

This was his biggest mistake

[arctic talon]

I mean yeah

[remote wadi]

A good emperor is one that isn't needed after

[arctic talon]

well, I'd say the intergalatctic mass genocide and slaughter was his biggest mistake

lol

[slow quarry]

Yeah I'm aware. But howsoever as long as it continues the smurfs will be the special kids on the block

[remote wadi]

Nah that was totally necessary ok

[sturdy linden]

Well, he is a very high tier immortal, so that'S actually one of the more forgivable mistakes he made

[arctic talon]

no it wasn't lol

[sturdy linden]

if you literally respawn when you dioe, with all your stuff, this may not be something you actually think about

[arctic talon]

There was very little reason for the Imperium to kill that much, The Emperor just wanted to go fast

who cares if its a few trillion dead

[remote wadi]

If I was a perpetual I would think eventually I may lose myself

Simply cause we humans and we all go crazy with enought time

[slow quarry]

explain this to the german tax system

[sturdy linden]

all perpetuals kinda do, and the emperor is a mass of several people in one skin to begin with. he's not quite like the other kids, even if "the other kids" are the perpetuals.

[remote wadi]

The German tax system is effective and perfect

(i say this cause I'm not German)

[slow quarry]

but there is no form for perpetuals!!!

you MUST have the form

[remote wadi]

Haha

[slow quarry]

Without the form there is no Verwaltungsakt

[sturdy linden]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAhaahahahahahha ahhahaha haha ha 😭

[remote wadi]

Don't all perpetuals have multiple souls

[arctic talon]

no

[sturdy linden]

nope

[arctic talon]

We don't even know if the emperor does

we have no definitive proof of his origin

beyond he's old as shit

[remote wadi]

Ok then how didn't they understand he was destined to be a god

[sturdy linden]

sanguinius says so, and I trust him because he'S my pretty angel

[remote wadi]

Chaos gods are literally agglomerates of souls

[sturdy linden]

like space hulks but souls

[arctic talon]

[slow quarry]

Because he was not really active

[arctic talon]

Ultimately a hard reboot like AoS is less lopsided in terms of poster child

ironically

[sacred ginkgo]

Are we having the chaos centrism argument again

[arctic talon]

no

[remote wadi]

Nope

We talking about how the concept of the god emperor was kinda not well planned

[arctic talon]

Ignore the fact Stormcast had the worst rangebloat I've ever seen in a wargame

[remote wadi]

And a lot of things don't make sense

[sacred ginkgo]

I ask because I open chat and see kimo and chaos on the same line

[arctic talon]

that was due to GW just constantly releasing new shit lol

in an attempt to find what people liked

it was better proportions

[slow quarry]

It wasn't he did not wanted to have any religion especially not about him. He was there from the beginning of humankind on but not as ruler, always more like standing on the side and watching how humankind evolves until he had to do something because the chaos grew stronger

[sturdy linden]

it certainly wasn't baby carriers and baby suits. but the newcrons did way better than they should have.

[remote wadi]

Or hear me out he was a chaos god manifested and he wanted to end competition by ending religion

Logar is a part of the emperor

And he was a full on schoolar

[sturdy linden]

he actually was not.

[arctic talon]

Newcrons doing well makes sense

tbh

as in 5e necrons

If you're referring to 9e necrons as newcrons that would be weird

[slow quarry]

He is not over the point what GW did with his necrons

[arctic talon]

Necrons rewrite in 5e gave the faction some much needed personality that let them standout imo

[sturdy linden]

i'm talking about way back when

[arctic talon]

5e then

[remote wadi]

I'm just saying logar as a part of the emperor wouldn't make sense if the emperor truly was an atheist

[arctic talon]

Necrons have prolly had the most iteration of any 40k faction lol

[remote wadi]

Especially since all primarchs had a reason to exist in the empirium

[sturdy linden]

I can call them dreadknights and centurions too.

[arctic talon]

nah

those ones are easy

lol

[sturdy linden]

😄

[arctic talon]

I was around when centurions came out

LOL

[slow quarry]

Yeah he needed his super soldiers because the imperium went to shit quickly when the dark age of technology began

[sturdy linden]

I built my first army around a metal red terror ...

[remote wadi]

I mean like peterabo was the builder

Horus was the warmaster

[crystal forum]

this is a commonly said fan assumption that makes no sense to me given how like half the primarchs are just war focused

[remote wadi]

Guilliman was the diplomat

Alpharion the spy

[arctic talon]

there's something funny about AoS being the first GW system with better proportions

[remote wadi]

Logar the church

[arctic talon]

and then that spreading everywhere

lol

[slow quarry]

Yeah because the chapters would lack personality of their primarchs would be all "Blabla the Soldier"

[sturdy linden]

lorgar was the token bullied child.

[remote wadi]

Logar could quite literally tell people what to do

[sturdy linden]

since every group of boys needs someone to bully. the emperor was wise and understood this.

[remote wadi]

Like he said it you gotta

[sturdy linden]

too bad he was so good at it the child was bullied even by his own legion

[remote wadi]

Also the bullied kid was alpharion

Thats why he was the quiet kid

[sacred ginkgo]

If a 10 foot tall son of God with a habit of murder told me to do something I think I would do it

[remote wadi]

And we all know how it went

💀

[sturdy linden]

nah, lorgar was bullied far harder.

[remote wadi]

Logar was anti violence

He only turned to violence cause of the emperor

[sturdy linden]

alpharion at least always had his brother to take half the bullying for him ppurely because nobody could really tell them apart

[slow quarry]

well daddy issues then

[sturdy linden]

I'm not sure the people of his perfect planet he burned to impress daddy would agree.

[remote wadi]

Also guilliman not being taken by slaneesh is weird

[lament shoal]

That's literally all of them lmao

[remote wadi]

Dude has a huge ego

Someone would say excessive ego

[slow quarry]

Yeah, make papi proud

[lament shoal]

Not anymore

He's mellowed out in 40k

[crystal forum]

guilliman was too loyal

[remote wadi]

Excessive loyalty

[lament shoal]

Sounds more like Russ tbh

[sturdy linden]

guillimane is the perfect high-ranking bureaucrat. intelligent, durable and loyal far beyond any reason.

[remote wadi]

Russ would be malice if they didn't retcon malice

[sturdy linden]

(also tedious, hair-splitty and unable to think out of the box)

[crystal forum]

malice was never really in the setting

to begin with

[remote wadi]

Sons of malice were real

[slow quarry]

as female astartes were on some point but that's how it went

[sturdy linden]

both were from the concept stage of the setting before they brought it togethjer beyond a very vague idea

[arctic talon]

Malice is around in 40k

he was in a 6e novel

[remote wadi]

But yeah I don't understand how no one suspected big É was a potential chaos god until malcador knew for sure

[arctic talon]

where he's like

the most pathetic fucking chaos creature ever

lol

[storm jungle]

Sons of Malice also get mentioned in the new night lords novel

[sturdy linden]

actually I still like the grief bringers. they have the best colour scheme and dying your teeth black kinda rocks too. it is at least very punk.

[arctic talon]

11 sacrifices to get brought into real space

btw

Gets fucking obliterated by an inqusitor, her retinue and some marines

[crystal forum]

sons of malice were changed to be generic chaos worshippers in cadia stands

[remote wadi]

Malice is not a fully awoken god ok

He needs souls

[arctic talon]

Sons of Malice still worship malice

[storm jungle]

Nope.

they still worship Malice

hes canon

[lament shoal]

Was malice the one that got his spine shattered by an inquisitor wielding a chaplain crozius?

[slow quarry]

I'm also not fully awoken without coffee

[arctic talon]

no

[remote wadi]

Exactly

Give me the chaos coffee god irl

[crystal forum]

it's literally stated that they worship generic chaos in the book so i'm going with "ambiguous"

[lament shoal]

Thats just slaanesh lol

[slow quarry]

Starbucks in terms of pricing

[lament shoal]

Excess in all things, food and drugs included

[vagrant fox]

Elaborate or get banned

[lament shoal]

And caffeine is a drug

[sturdy linden]

the brothers of the sock may worship the great sock but that doesn't make the great sock exist. that'd need at least a few worlds worhsipping the great sock for a few millenia. and then it's more be the very mediocre sock that may or may not be smacked out of existence by a determined bloodthirster.

[storm jungle]

And in this new novel they still say they worship Malice, get out of my sight you little furry

[remote wadi]

Since gods are agglomerates of souls my take on malice is he just lacks souls

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/terminator-exterminador-talk-to-the-hand-fale-com-a-mao-arnold-shwarzenegger-gif-20253177

[remote wadi]

And prolly the dark king will steal his realm anyways

[remote wadi]

And consume him

[crystal forum]

saved

[daring creek]

Ya know

If you think about it

[arctic talon]

look Malice does exist, the great and mediocre malice

[daring creek]

as soon as humanity turned away from jesus

Things got bad

[storm jungle]

True.

[slow quarry]

as we learned about the sock

[storm jungle]

Jesus' death was a canon event

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-2099-canon-event-2099-across-the-spiderverse-atsv-gif-16753366998388919145

[lament shoal]

Big E was probably Judas

[remote wadi]

Big E was the anti Christ all along

👀

[storm jungle]

Dude LEGIT lmao

[sturdy linden]

no, as soon as they forgot how to properly worship ishtar, but thats beside the point.

[storm jungle]

no as soon as they away from allah's light

🖐️

[crystal forum]

Big E would be pontius pilate

absolving himself of wrongdoing

[arctic talon]

also canon ending to mechanicus was revealed in Mechanicus 2

[vagrant fox]

Or just maybe the noble tenets of confuscius🤔

[sturdy linden]

pshaw, always these late-comers from last edition.

[arctic talon]

they blew up the planet

[remote wadi]

They just blew mars?

[arctic talon]

no

Silva Tenebris

[lament shoal]

"Hold on Malcador, I gotta get this psyker killed and then fake my death."

[arctic talon]

its the planet the first game takes place on

[remote wadi]

Oh ok

[lament shoal]

They WHAT Mars????

[remote wadi]

I have the first game but I'm too lazy to finish it

[arctic talon]

"Ollanius is gona be pissed when he finds out"

[arctic talon]

no

[lament shoal]

[storm jungle]

EYO

[sturdy linden]

MARS STANDS!

[crystal forum]

it's on its knees

[sturdy linden]

it has shoes attached to the knees!

[remote wadi]

Also vashtor should ascend to chaos godhood

I support the indie gods

[arctic talon]

Vashtorr basicially is a chaos god already

lol

he fufills all the bubbles, he's just smol

[sturdy linden]

a lot of things could ascend to chaos godhood.

[arctic talon]

also the fact he hates mortals

lol

def doesn't help his whole "become god" plan

[sturdy linden]

like constantin valdor, who is honestly more likely to, too

[crystal forum]

who doesn't

[arctic talon]

idk

other mortals

[remote wadi]

True even mortals hate mortals

That's why they turn to nurgle

[sturdy linden]

nobody hates mortals more than other mortals.

[remote wadi]

He is gonna be the chaos machine god that's my take

He will be the true ommnissiah

[arctic talon]

untrue

the true omnissiah the dark mechanicum worships

is the dark king

also the Omnissiah != machine god

[crystal forum]

is that the one UR met

[arctic talon]

No

[sturdy linden]

the proliferation o chaos gods is getting worse than the proliferation of totally not dead primarchs.

[arctic talon]

not really

its litearlly just vashtorr and the emperor

[crystal forum]

there's a trifecta of the omnissiah

[sturdy linden]

that or the dragon but you're likely right.

[arctic talon]

Yeah the Mechanicus is basicially got the catholic holy trinity

[arctic talon]

nah Kelbor Hal refers to the Dark King as the true omnissiah

[remote wadi]

Tbh leman is the executioner of primarchs bringing him back means bye chaos deamon prince primarchs

[arctic talon]

so at the very least his sect

does

[remote wadi]

He is coming to execute

[arctic talon]

they're daemons, so no

also GW killing a named character with a miniature is highly unlikely

lol

[sturdy linden]

I mean there's canonical proof of that but it is being ignored and shut down because it would be very unhelpful to everyone concerned by that information.

[crystal forum]

i wonder what UR met, if that wasn't just a throwaway lore blurb to add mystery to him

[lament shoal]

Also the chaos gods can just revive them so

[arctic talon]

Well yeah but they got the weird ass holy trinity going on

regarding the mechanicus

well not weird

[remote wadi]

Also theres only 8 realms of chaos

[arctic talon]

its just the catholic one in a trench coat

[remote wadi]

There can only be 8 gods

[arctic talon]

not true as well

[remote wadi]

Then the beast of chaos undivided

[slow quarry]

It depends on the perspective, they will say that to keep things peacefully and their autonomy, but there are some hints that internally they see that differently

[arctic talon]

the Aetheric domains are the Mechanicus and proto inqusitions understanding

of it

[remote wadi]

Which rules all chaos

[arctic talon]

and also an insane chaos worshippers understanding of it

the Aetheric domains are not "final" or even true

its just the Inqusition/Mechanicums understanding of it

explictly

[remote wadi]

The eldar gods were if you think about it similar in realms

[arctic talon]

do not take it as gospel

also there were way more then 8 eldar gods

lol

[remote wadi]

The eldar god of war is now khorne

[crystal forum]

getting hard rules on chaos would be wild when we don't even have hard rules in the general setting

[storm jungle]

No???

what

[arctic talon]

no

[sturdy linden]

yep. probably a cheeky dune reference.

[remote wadi]

I mean as in khorne got the realm

Chaos was peaceful once

[arctic talon]

absolutely is imo

no it wasn't

the warp was calm

[remote wadi]

It got chaotic so their gods consumed and realm stolen

[arctic talon]

but that doesn't mean chaos was peacful

[crystal forum]

we dont even know what chaos was up to

[arctic talon]

ty 10e eldar codex for having this art

[sturdy linden]

oh, the mural from Farseer!

[arctic talon]

Yep!

[sturdy linden]

that is really nice!

[arctic talon]

it got modernized and turned into this thing

its really cool

[crystal forum]

they really like their triangles

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[sturdy linden]

humans have an affinty to the number three.

[remote wadi]

My take is when the eldar gods got consumed

The chaos gods just took the preexisting realms of them and took it

[arctic talon]

okay well we know thats untrue, because the Eldar gods never had realms

not in the way the chaos gods do

[crystal forum]

i wonder if the omnissiah ever did exist and if it did then where tf did it go

[remote wadi]

Acording to the lore of the void dragon he never did

[arctic talon]

UR-025 says they've met it

[remote wadi]

It's was big E plan all along

[crystal forum]

yeah but if that's all we have to go off of then i'll just assume it's the writer trying to add mystery to UR

[remote wadi]

Which also supports my theory that he already knew about his godhood

Since he did create a religion for himself

[crystal forum]

it's definitely not the emperor

also that would suck

[sturdy linden]

it is not

and the emperor never intended to become a warp god. however, the star child might have other ideas

[arctic talon]

The emperor did not want to become the Dark King

he's horrified by the idea of it lol

[slow quarry]

He knew it since the beginning but he did not want to be a god, this is why he stood on the sideline until he needed to act

[sturdy linden]

what'S on the golden throne is only like half the things in the trenchcoat.

[remote wadi]

What if he said he didn't but he did

[nocturne crest]

So is Scaevola an enemy in Mechanicus 2, because I thought she fled in that ending?

[arctic talon]

Well

[crystal forum]

since the omnissiah is meant to be the sum of all knowledge then i wonder if a fully intact STC with all of humanity's accumulated science would be the omnissiah

[arctic talon]

no

she's working with Faustinius again

She probably came back after throwing a hissy fit in private

[remote wadi]

We know everyone procives the emperor differently

Like how mechanicus see him as a scientist regular man

The aestartes saw the golden one

[slow quarry]

lol

[remote wadi]

The Nules could see a lesser version

What tells us he wasnt manipulating humanity all along

[sturdy linden]

the machine god is the sum of all knowledge, the omnissiah is the sum of all UNDERSTANDING of that knowledge, I think.

[storm jungle]

The sum of all deez nuts

[slow quarry]

then why he would not do it sooner? Again, he was there from the beginning of humanity

[storm jungle]

He wasnt tbh

[nocturne crest]

So here's an odd question, but are STC that are redunant still wanted or used by the Admech?

[storm jungle]

he was born in like

hold on i gotta open a history book

[crystal forum]

afaik omnissiah is the physical manifestation of the machine god

[storm jungle]

the Bronze Age

[nocturne crest]

For example imaging finding an STC on how to build the first tank in existance.

[sturdy linden]

yes, much as the church still wants those nails from the cross even though it has a few more than four.

[crystal forum]

that's like several thousand years is the funny thing

[lament shoal]

Where's the technomat femboy the magos promised me

[sturdy linden]

because it'S a matter of faith, and ritual, not material need.

[remote wadi]

Also his matirium form could be confused about his imatirium form

[nocturne crest]

Would the admech still use that STC....

[storm jungle]

yeah and Oll was around longer than him too lol

[storm jungle]

Yes

[remote wadi]

We never saw any of the chaos gods in matirium forms

[nocturne crest]

The mirror.

[lament shoal]

Nuh uh

[arctic talon]

yes because it would literally destroy the galaxy

Summoning greater daemons already causes a fuck ton of issues in reality

Summoning a whole ass chaos god might break it forever

also we do see Khornes arm + blade manifest

during arks of omen

[crystal forum]

yeah there's no central collection of information so forge worlds love to get their own copies if possible

[remote wadi]

My take is the dark king was manifesting and showing visions to big E all along

And big E didnt realize he was a god until it was too late

[slow quarry]

Yeah, not from the beginning. But almost. I mean in Realm of Chaos he was born after the Shamans killed themselves and he is the fusion of those souls

[sturdy linden]

that too, since sects tend to hoard knowledge and not share it even with their tech-comrades.

[storm jungle]

Realm of Chaos is debated canon at this point

we still havent gotten any modern confirmation of the shaman origin

[sturdy linden]

maybe he will say yes in future publications but for now he said no.

[slow quarry]

Yeah, well, but since we got something new its still there

[sturdy linden]

the sanguinius book had sanguinius say he has many souls.

[remote wadi]

I think the dark king is unavoidable but they only gonna do it if 11 th edition doesn't sell well

[crystal forum]

well that guy's dead so jokes on him

[storm jungle]

Yeah but that doesnt mean much either

the Emperor has so much contradicting lore

because none of these authors pay attention to each other

[crystal forum]

fucking real

[remote wadi]

I mean if the emperor is a god the primarchs could have been his deamon princes

And then they got corrupted and changed sides

[sturdy linden]

and warhammer canon isn't built for seamless cohesion anyway. it has holes and gaps that are features, not bugs, like II and XI.

[remote wadi]

Korvo is not dominated by no chaos gods

Not a deamon

Yet he looks like a warp entity

[sturdy linden]

the eldar gods were/are gods but not daemons, nor daemon princes.

[remote wadi]

Maybe when the dark king manifests he is his deamon prince

[crystal forum]

are we talking about the guy from dishonored

[sturdy linden]

same with the c'tan, though they are not warp-based altogether (somehow).

[slow quarry]

Yeah, actually as long as I do not get anything else Realm of Chaos is something I consider canon. We can debate about that but it won't make a change

[remote wadi]

The depressed primarch

[raven stone]

The HH novels do imply the Primarchs are basically human shaped Demon Princes.

[storm jungle]

Siege is one of my fav examples of this ,because they sat down and did interviews while the series was still coming out and were like "Yeah we are working together really closely to make these books work its a very intricate process" etc etc.

Then you read the 8 novels and they literally contradict each other constantly minus some of the major events in the battle lol

its very funny

[crystal forum]

and this is why you don't want 10 writers doing one story in most situations including movies

[storm jungle]

^

Its also very much an ego issue

because all these dumbasses got their own biases and ideas

[remote wadi]

Also maybe their initial intentions for big E weren't to be a chaos god

Then they changed their minds

GW am i right

[daring creek]

Oh. I thought GW would make them lol.

[storm jungle]

it was never the idea

[daring creek]

For the sake of consistency across stories lmfao

[storm jungle]

the Dark King is an Abnett invention

we had no teases of it

[sturdy linden]

warhammer books are always perspectives and not really intended to seamlessly integrate (which is an impossible task with so many authors anyway). realistically, this is a smarter way to go about this than, say, star wars, where you have different canon tiers, everything gets turned on its head every few years and then everyone is upset at everyone else about whether some smuggler shot another smuggler or vice versa.

[storm jungle]

we had no idea it would ever happen

Abnett just randomly put it in the final 2 books

[slow quarry]

Yeah I mean there are different perspectives to this event as there are different perspectives to human history as well and this is how I personally tread it

[storm jungle]

because everytihing has to be Marvel

[raven stone]

And thank goodness it came to nothing too

[storm jungle]

That is just excusing lazy writing

[raven stone]

I mean, I will be honest, I do find it in character for Chaos to be petty, but yes, Dark King arc was true randomness

[remote wadi]

As a chaos enjoyer

[crystal forum]

that would only happen if one writer is declared the project lead and said lead writer actually cares enough to enforce consistency. im sure when GW hires these writers it just lets them settle lore between eachother

[remote wadi]

I do enjoy the idea that big E was a mastermind god all along

[slow quarry]

That's your opinion. World ain't black and white.

[remote wadi]

But for the space marine fans it must sck

[sturdy linden]

it is excusing imperfection, which is to be expected at such a scale.

[storm jungle]

Thats also just excusing lazy writing, calling it "imperfection" is one way to sugarcoat it lol

[sturdy linden]

and it is better to have it that way (IMO) than to have people expect perfection and then get very upset that it's not.

[storm jungle]

Its very much not, this was a very big talking debate point during the Siege and after it lol

i really do not understand why people cannot accept that BL writers are not perfect and make mistakes, they all got a POV of how they see this universe, you dont have to excuse contradictory information

[raven stone]

Emps never really is the Chaos Mastermind per se, and Chaos wanting him to be a Chaos god is, as said, a real random edition.

[remote wadi]

Also I'm gonna call it GW is getting more and more chaos biased

Look at our factions

[storm jungle]

they arent

[remote wadi]

Competitive dominance

[storm jungle]

loyalist marines are the protagonists of 40k

chaos is like the WWE secondplace Heels

[sturdy linden]

.... I literally said as much like, right there. and you said it was just excusing lazy wrinting. eh?

[slow quarry]

Yeah but how is this a problem just to acept their mistakes and take it as different perspective to a major event nobody can recall and the truth is something we will not know

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/sakamoto-nichijou-cat-plush-death-gif-9178639101841172402

[remote wadi]

The emperors children and CSM are very strong right now

And CSM seem to always get buffs at the cost of losing units

[storm jungle]

are they

lol

[crystal forum]

siege of terra HH campaign is where the lore i actually care about will be

[raven stone]

I think the reason why the narrative kind of fell apart between writers as a whole, is that some are still writing it as an opinion fiction, whilst others got the memo and tried to write it as an actual historical story.

So you had some authors feeling self assertive in guessing how Emps would think, whilst others only focused on what he did, leading to a massively confusing and contradictory picture.

[storm jungle]

I wonder if they will actually do that

[storm jungle]

Yeah theres simply WAY too many moving parts and biases, your assumption is pretty much correct.

[lament shoal]

Are there any tabletopheads in the chat rn

I got a question

[crystal forum]

i'm positive the tabletop is going that direction since they're inching closer to terra every edition

[raven stone]

I can give it a shot…

[crystal forum]

they just did mars

[remote wadi]

I only played 10th edition and I have 0 comp exprience

But I did research about the tabletop

[lament shoal]

I'm wondering what the ideal troop setup for the kasrkin kill team is

[slow quarry]

I do not see the problem honestly. It is exactly this kind of chaotic 'nobody knows for sure' what gives 40k its character

[sturdy linden]

but massively confusing and contradictory is what I personally WANT from the Emperor, because if he was actually explained and his interior workings shown that would make him SO BORING. IMO.

[slow quarry]

And this is exactly how i like and love this setting for the last 20 years of playing pen and paper in this setting

[raven stone]

If you are talking about the actual Kill Team…all the specialists have their usage.

[crystal forum]

i prefer not thinking about the emperor because he sucks

[remote wadi]

I like to see the emp as just another chaos god

Can't wait for the chaos undivided dark pact of the dark king

[slow quarry]

you are entitled to this opinion as well

[crystal forum]

probably the worst part of the setting's lore and also its most iconic part which means i'm stuck with it

[lament shoal]

But you can't use all of them at once right?

[sour hornet]

Biel-Tan aspect warrior talking to two astartes of the Black Templars chapter, M42 c.

[storm jungle]

LMAO

Fuckü

[remote wadi]

[raven stone]

That is more a reader preference then, I suppose. But I guess in terms of a “flawed individual”, the other reason why BL sucked somewhat in this department, is that some writers tossed out the idea of “reasonable flaws from incorrect information/circumstances”, and just went right ahead and insisted on writing Emperor as “flawed because he is a tyrant ergo a dumbass jerk.”

[slow quarry]

why do you have an ü

[storm jungle]

🇹🇷

[slow quarry]

explain

[lament shoal]

Casual racism vs competitive racism

[remote wadi]

But I gotta be honest I may have a different perspective on wh40k

Cause I started from xenos perspective

Most people start from empirium perspective

[storm jungle]

Its also just a copout answer to cover up inconsistencies, people lapping it up so freely creates tons of narrative issues which very much were not meant to be ones in the first place ontop of that.

[sturdy linden]

yeah, that'S reductive. not all tyrants are dumbass jerks. some are really smart jerks.

[raven stone]

Kill Team does things a bit differently from big 40k, so positioning is crucial. I think it is one (or two, if you have special rules) models per turn.

[sour hornet]

Same, I'm a general fantasy enjoyer that found the eldar

[remote wadi]

The tau got me into 40k

[slow quarry]

https://tenor.com/view/idontwanna-no-icant-scream-queens-gif-6220142

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/terminator-exterminador-talk-to-the-hand-fale-com-a-mao-arnold-shwarzenegger-gif-20253177

[sour hornet]

thankfully the Imperium has knights and titans

[remote wadi]

Then I read the rest

[crystal forum]

the guard wins because generic human.mp4

[daring creek]

Second time I've seen Klansmen in here

Hmmm

[remote wadi]

Eldar are cool tho

[slow quarry]

https://tenor.com/view/sometimes-maybe-good-sometimes-maybe-bad-sometimes-maybe-shit-not-good-feeling-shit-gif-16938525

[daring creek]

Some of you may be 40k fans..

[remote wadi]

It's just the birth of slaneesh that kinda made it weird

[crystal forum]

the small event of a chaos god birthing

footnote

[remote wadi]

Like imagine you have all power to do anything and you create a god cause you did an orgy

[raven stone]

I will always point to the porting of Angron’s backstory as a “dumbass jerk” moment.
Like, they had to keep the reason for Angron turning against Emps, which could have worked with more details.
And not “Emps refused to help because he is a jerk and a magazine article we are porting faithfully word for word from a decade ago said so.”

[remote wadi]

Like bro

[crystal forum]

we all hate angron's lore in this house

[sturdy linden]

In the first place, Warhammer was meant to be a setting where half-eldar navigator trainees are hired by the ultramarines to become their captains (unsure whether they got the slave harem as a bonus or not then, though), so ...

[remote wadi]

But he is just an anger issued child

[storm jungle]

I mean that was just the writers having fun

[remote wadi]

He just needed daddy attention

[storm jungle]

nowadays that isnt really a thing

because the setting's tone is much more serious

[remote wadi]

And to watch less domestic violence

[storm jungle]

with a glaze of dark comedy

[raven stone]

40k 1st to 2nd edition was pretty much Fanatsy adventures IN SPESS WITH SUPA SOLDIERS.
Then 3rd edition codified everything, for better and for worse.

[lament shoal]

Marines had ritual poop eating ceremonies in 1st edition

[sturdy linden]

that'd only be dumbass if he'd wanted to treat angron like his actual kid. I mean, maybe? But from what I can tell he had SOME plan. It is just unknowable.

[slow quarry]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-exterminatus-explosion-nuke-40k-gif-22693290

[crystal forum]

i'd be into goofy 40k if it didn't mean i had to tolerate angry marines

[remote wadi]

I get Angron tbh

[storm jungle]

he had SOME plan. It is just unknowable.

about as Unknowable as being a general dumbass i guess

[remote wadi]

He is a reflection of his abuse father

[slow quarry]

The unknowable plan is the upselling from being dumbass

[raven stone]

The problem is, if Emps was meant to be depicted as a tyrant, even his subsequent response to the planet doesn’t make sense. Like, he was looking at a planet that defiled Angron, his creation. It’s a bloody miracle he didn’t level the place, even if he didn’t care two shits for Angron himself, just for the symbolic defiance of His authority.

But for 0 reasons beyond Blueberry Boy, Emps was like “oh they defiled my creation but wish to join me? Ok lol.”

[slow quarry]

Its marketing

[storm jungle]

[sturdy linden]

Kind of sad, because I do like the very early all-over-the-place-ness. But the setting coalesced kind of from several places and people without a set plan. So it never really was set in stone (unlike star wars, which came from one person who had a very narrow and definite vision).

[remote wadi]

Welp the emp wanted the marines to eventually collapse on themselves

[storm jungle]

too true

[remote wadi]

It would make sense he left that one angry to do it

[storm jungle]

LITERALLY.

[remote wadi]

Which if he is a chaos god makes sense

[daring creek]

It takes charisma

And talking like you're informed

[sturdy linden]

It's things like this that make emps at least feel like a deity-like being, because his plans (which can be presumed to exist) are in fact unknowable to normal people, like the reader. not a perfect execution but it at least gives that impression. Gods, like the Lovecraftian pantheon, need to be ununderstandable, otherwise they're just really high-level wizards.

[slow quarry]

I think that 40k is this kind of mess gives it its unique personality and I would not like it that much if it was as straight as star wars, howsoever, I did also play star wars roleplay so.. yeah

[raven stone]

Now to be fair even 30k Imperium was a bit on the authoritarian side, so people who said no too loud were probably disappeared…but then this again goes back to Black Library writers failing to give us enough context (and too much Marine macho porn)

[sturdy linden]

A BIT

[storm jungle]

It very much doesnt. If you want to see a great god-like written character look at someone like Dr Manhattan.

[crystal forum]

40k is a lot less of a mess when you stop trying to form a big picture and just focus on smaller scale

[storm jungle]

the Emperor is just a shitty wannabe deviantart OC everyone glazes

[daring creek]

Is the marine Macho porn the reason why theres imperium glazers

[storm jungle]

a character that is essentially a god is about as smart as the writers writing him

(which is not a lot)

[lament shoal]

Not everyone, just the imperium dick riding tourists

[sturdy linden]

I dunno, Dr. Manhattan always felt like a sad high-level mage to me. too human-like and understandable to be alien enough to be a god as I understand gods.

[storm jungle]

TRUE

[raven stone]

Yea, as an open canvass setting 40k is actually quite beautifully designed lorewise.
Ironically it’s the actual history leading to the canvas that is a bit messy lol

[slow quarry]

Well, true.

[storm jungle]

Hes very much not human-like

thats his entire character

he realises humanity is hopeless and not worth investing any of his mental energy in

its why he is memed a lot for that reason

[slow quarry]

And this is why god-characters and god-perspectives do not make good stories

[storm jungle]

Yep pretty much

even his climax was him just leaving earth lol

[sturdy linden]

which is every sad emo teenager ever

[storm jungle]

Nah lmao

[crystal forum]

dr manhatten is also stupid af and managed to get duped by the nixon admin so he deserves it

[storm jungle]

I mean he didnt

he just went along with it because he didnt think

he was just like "Eh sure i guess"

[remote wadi]

Dr manhattan is just the lore reason for plot armor

[storm jungle]

what

[crystal forum]

blows up vietnam
gets framed for cancer accidents

"why is humanity so stupid?"

[remote wadi]

He did save humanity sometimes

[sturdy linden]

America is not humanity.

[remote wadi]

I'm talking comics

[storm jungle]

He did it because he wanted to still be intermingled with humanity

he was still trying to be "Osterman"

[remote wadi]

In comics it's not just America

[storm jungle]

he was trying to make an effort to be involved in world affairs and work for the government, albeit reluctantly.

then he realises theres really no point in it

because we are self-destructive and stupid

[lament shoal]

Little guy

[storm jungle]

which uh, is pretty relevant nowadays lol

[remote wadi]

To be fair Watchmen is one of the most poorly made intelligence stories

[storm jungle]

What

[crystal forum]

he could have dismantled every nuke on earth and turned every gun to slag

[remote wadi]

Like the smartest man alive made himself a villain to be the common enemy of humanity then die to cancel a war temporarily

The smartest man btw

[storm jungle]

Thats the point. They literally say this to him lol

He just sees no point in it because people will just find a way to kill each other still

he literally is removed from Humanity

he has no feelings for such things

thats what makes him a fucked character

[crystal forum]

if it's intentional then yeah i give you that

[storm jungle]

Yeah it is.

[sturdy linden]

I don't want a god to have motives and thoughts I can understand. That'd defeat the whole point of faith. If you can just understand a god's motives your faith becomes optional on whether you agree with god, which leads to "I don't need faith", which leads to no god and makes the whole narrative of a god very redundant. .

[storm jungle]

Rorscach calls him out on his shit

and Manhattan is like "Welp you got me there. I just do not care"

[slow quarry]

My take on writing in general: We have to many authors right now that write stories about godlike-edgy-but-oh-so-tragic-and-dramatic characters in repetitive narratives and settings and its always the same whilst the characters are in someways somwhat perfect because some authors thread them more like their mini-me and they want their mini-me to be cool.

[storm jungle]

which is a pretty realistic way to write a character that is so powerful he sees us as essentially ants

hes entirely disconnected

[nocturne crest]

Hell, the watchmen tv series continues on from the original comic and we're still building nukes despite everything.

[sturdy linden]

manhattan is a moderate transhuman, not a god.

[crystal forum]

he's a god to us

[storm jungle]

^

[lament shoal]

Is that the blue guy

[storm jungle]

this still applies to the Emperor

[nocturne crest]

https://tenor.com/view/this-kind-of-appropriation-is-considered-problematic-now-problematic-difficult-tricky-complicated-gif-15769986

[storm jungle]

he wasnt a god in 30k

[remote wadi]

All stories have the same formula since greek time

[storm jungle]

Blueman Group dude yep

[remote wadi]

We just lacking new variations

[crystal forum]

worst take

[slow quarry]

the formula aint the problem, the characters are

[storm jungle]

remember folks

theres no bad concept

only bad execution

[raven stone]

I think it has been said there are 7 different story archetypes total or something.
But yes also the above.

[sturdy linden]

there are also concepts that are just bad.

[nocturne crest]

Hell, America in chainsaw man managed to remake nukes, after the concept of them was wiped from existence.

[storm jungle]

Nah

any concept can work with the right writing

[arctic talon]

tbf nuclear energy still existed

lol

[storm jungle]

its why a concept is a rough amalgamation of ideas, not a solid ground

[sturdy linden]

I appreciate your faith.

[arctic talon]

The world was a hop skip and jump away from Nukes in that universe even after the concept got deleted

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shoo-cat-shoo-biscuit-gif-8024642674144447563

[nocturne crest]

True, but nuke weapons got wiped from existence and the US brought them back.

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[storm jungle]

Tbh

we literally could remove all weapons from the world now

[vague flare]

So question. Theoretically, if the Emperor allowed worship of him prior to his internment in the golden throne, how differently would events have played out?

[storm jungle]

and people would use sticks to kill each other

so its nothing new lol

[remote wadi]

To be fair chainsaw man was written by a guy having fun

[arctic talon]

Lorgar would have likely remained loyal

[slow quarry]

Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau talking to Eisenhorn about Pet-Daemonhosts selling on Terra

Please write it right

[vague flare]

And thus the Horus Heresy might have played significantly differently?

[sturdy linden]

actually biting is an option, since human bites are moderately toxic from the gunk that grows on our teeth.

[arctic talon]

Not a ton imo

[nocturne crest]

Sticks and slings!

[remote wadi]

Horus heresy may have not happened

[arctic talon]

Lorgar would have gotten jumped

Imo

In this hypothetical lol

[nocturne crest]

https://tenor.com/view/a-brief-disagreement-cavemen-fighting-world-war-4-humanity-gif-14247561230571398294

[storm jungle]

Also can work. Theres also a difference between both of those things you listed, one is from a goofy era of 40k where any concept was just put in because it was not made to be serious and people very much enjoyed it, you also joke about "pet daemonhosts selling" when this literally happens in the lore in a fantasyflight book 💀

[remote wadi]

It's would prolly be the alpharian heresy

[crystal forum]

damn now we're just entering the emp topic again

[storm jungle]

Same shit

[storm jungle]

I hate the Emperor so much lol

all these topics are so repetitive

[lament shoal]

Average intellectual discussion between two orks in 40k

[remote wadi]

Ok let's talk about the eldar god of death

[raven stone]

More like Erebus Heresy. We know form the Death Guard that normal Marines can scheme their Primarch’s fall into Chaos worship.

[slow quarry]

But its the concept.

[vague flare]

Sorry. I’m still new to 40K and was doing some light reading on why the imperium is the way it is so I wanted to ask a hypothetical is all

[storm jungle]

I mean yes? Both worked didnt they lol

[slow quarry]

Uh oh

[vague flare]

Uh oh what?

[slow quarry]

but where is the right writing?

[storm jungle]

the Imperium is the way it is because it was founded by a tyrant bent on galactic conquest and genocide

[storm jungle]

Both in the stuff and era they were written for.

[vague flare]

Oh 100%

[lament shoal]

Its also good to remember that a big reason for the imperium's current state is because it's literally a hell of humanity's own making

[slow quarry]

but the concept is the conversation between them

[nocturne crest]

I wonder if the imperium has their own version of the pulserokkit the orks use sometimes.