40k-lore-chat

[opaque coyote]

Like it would've been better to

Make an alliance

Keep them neutral

Do anything other than fucking murder them all

But hey I'm not John Emperor

My man tried to speed run but it was a failed attempt

[arctic talon]

Look

[green loom]

Yeah you, hopefully, don't have a martyr/god complex with a series of inhuman psychopathic habits and sort future vision

[arctic talon]

Join or die

[opaque coyote]

Unless if the category was "worst father any %"

[arctic talon]

he's not even the worst father

somehow

he's just absurdly neglectful

which as far as being a shit parent goes isn't that bad

lol

[green loom]

Calling him a father is outright incorrect imo

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[green loom]

I don't think he has the capacity to be one

[arctic talon]

he doesn't see himself as a father

lol

[opaque coyote]

I mean I would count burning down one of your son's cities using one of their brothers would be considered uh

Abuse

[green loom]

Well no it's just violent oppression, just directed at one of the oppressors

[opaque coyote]

To be honest, I do like my Emperor slightly more human.

The few times where he does show like

Inner specks of humanity is actually interesting.

[green loom]

I like his humanity to be decidedly evil

[opaque coyote]

It's too bad the Emperor has a bad case of

"Multiple Author Itis"

Terminal

[green loom]

He was historically a brutal dictator and became one again, and barely any of his ethereal buds had confidence in his plan(and they were right)

[opaque coyote]

Yeah, humanity doesn't necessarily mean good in this case.

But like him hesitating with Horus makes zero sense.

Like I get it, they were basically crossing off the checkmark. It was in the original lore

But also, he hesitated to kill Horus

After losing the bits of love and compassion he had left

That makes zero sense

If that tidbit just wasn't there. The whole thing might actually be interesting

Because I think it's mentioned in the books that

At first he thought of them FULLY as tools.

But then slowly grew to somewhat love them.

[dire loom]

[opaque coyote]

It would be interesting to see him try to do severe mental gymnastics

To try and justify his actions

[dire loom]

Sah, question Sah! @opaque coyote

[opaque coyote]

Ye?

[dire loom]

We getting meltas in Darktide? It's lore accurate, yes?

What do you think, Sah?

[opaque coyote]

We're getting meltas??

Finally???

Where

https://tenor.com/view/cats-cat-cat-meme-gif-12840712051420478510

[dire loom]

[arctic talon]

Vet and Zealot using meltas is lore accurate

meltas are basicially like

the cheapest "special" weapon for the imperium to make aside from grenade launchers

lol

[opaque coyote]

If you mean if anybody gets a melta like Elite said

Then yeah Vet and Zealot would likely get it

[opaque coyote]

If I remember correctly, they canonically like

shoot a beam out right?

[arctic talon]

yeah

[opaque coyote]

How would a melta in Darktide even work

Would it be like similar to the Ogryn Cannon in terms of how it functions

One powerful shot but you have to reload/vent

[arctic talon]

imo multiple powerful shots per mag

cycle time between shots

for it to "cool" off like it does in lore

ADS/hipfire have the same accuracy

does a fuck ton of damage

infinite pierce

short range

[dire loom]

Ty Sah

[opaque coyote]

Yeah the problem with that is that it sounds too mechanically similar to plasma

multiple powerful shots

[arctic talon]

Plasma has range

[opaque coyote]

cooloff period

etc.

[arctic talon]

Cool off period

as in you literally cannot fire the gun

it doesn't work

as it cools off

[opaque coyote]

ah so melta would be a riskier but more powerful sidegrade to the plasma like

gameplay wise

interesting

[arctic talon]

you get multiple shots per mag like, 5 or something, but you literally cannot interrupt the gun cooling off, switch to the melee

Melta would be used t odelete mixed hordes

or heavy hordes

make it horribly ammo inefficent

[opaque coyote]

Honestly would make it so that depending on how lengthy the shot is, the longer it would take to cool down

Would still count as one shot no matter what though

But like if you accidentally tapped it, it would just use up one shot

[unique bronze]

Can't help but imagine the Melta from Space Marines 2, just that heatwave looking thing

[opaque coyote]

Yeah the Melta from the SM games are

Very inaccurate compared to the actual lore

They're supposed be a giant beam instead of a weird heatwave cone

[unique bronze]

Thought as much, first time I saw the weap fire like that I was wondering if it actually fired something like this compared to what I saw from other media about Meltas

[opaque coyote]

Honestly I like to think that Titus is unlucky

And just keeps getting broken ones

[crystal forum]

god i hope zealot doesnt get melta

im so tired of vet being neglected

[opaque coyote]

Of course the Veteran is neglected

They're a veteran

[unique bronze]

I've never played any other classess since starting Darktide

Vet has just been my one trick pony lmao

[opaque coyote]

Unfortunate jokes aside about the reality of Vets.

I do agree that Veteran needs some more love.

I never really had much use for the enhanced ranged damage ability

Command Shout moment

But even then, other classes are kinda better in other regards.

Some more exclusives to Vet would also be neat

[unique bronze]

Yeah VoC just seems a really good all rounded

[queen laurel]

to be honest on higher difficulty enhanced range it's one of the abilities that genuinely tests you as a person

The amount of hordes rushing you down will force you to melee combat more times than not

[unique bronze]

I saw a build with Exec Stance with Helbourne, its really powerful, but it takes a lot of precision out of me

[opaque coyote]

Yeah. I just feel like the reward isn't enough for the risk

The risk being

"OH GOD I'M BEING ASSAULTED BY THE ENTIRE MOEBIAN REGIMENT HEL-"

It does have it's moments though

Beast of Nurgle?

Sent back to the warp

[queen laurel]

Yeah other abilities allow you to fire and forget or fire and think in relative safety because the ability provides the safety

range stance veteran on the other hand

is fire and scramble to do work

[arctic talon]

Executioners stance needs a buff

lol

invis is

invis

Their skill tree is bleh

[queen laurel]

at least the playmaking potential allows you to do work

executioner stance forces you to squeeze out every last drop of value you can

[opaque coyote]

Invis

Exists

[queen laurel]

And shout is just shout

[opaque coyote]

I don't even think I tried it

Actually

[queen laurel]

it gives you over toughness

[opaque coyote]

I remember trying it once

[unique bronze]

Tried it for some penances

[opaque coyote]

And I uh

[queen laurel]

and pushes

[unique bronze]

It has some uses I guess

Not as good as the other two imo

[opaque coyote]

I am not good at using it

Zealot is much better for being sneaky beaky like

For some reason

[queen laurel]

OK but like that makes sense because even back in the early days when you only had one ability choice zealot was just

[unique bronze]

You hear a whisper behind you "for the emperor" isntead of the usual shout

[opaque coyote]

I guess praying to the emperor makes you channel becoming TF2 Spy

[queen laurel]

the burst character

they have the highest single target damage burst on the game

[opaque coyote]

Yeah I'm not complaining about that specifically.

Just that Vet invis kinda feels dogwater compared to the other two abilities

[queen laurel]

Oh most definitely yeah

vet definitely need some reworking on

[opaque coyote]

Veteran class

Truly makes you feel like a guardsman

Ignored

[unique bronze]

Invis does seem like it doesnt fit a Vet class very well

[opaque coyote]

Tbf soldiers do sneak a lot. I would argue purely by themes.

I don't imagine a zealot being sneaky

But I do agree that Invis needs a rework

Or even a replacement

[dire loom]

Immersion

[plush mason]

frankly i hope they rework all the classes talent trees to be similar to the arbitators' in layout

its just so much better for build crafting

[unique bronze]

saw that Bound to Duty trailer from DT's steampage, wonder what thats about

[plush mason]

no idea

it comes out soon though

[unique bronze]

been a while since i played so im looking forward to some new content

[sour hornet]

Basically a plasma gun, but without the range, and a way lower skill floor.

Like I can imagine a melta being used by noobs because there isn't an annoying kill yourself mechanic.

[opaque coyote]

I always felt that it should have a higher skill floor ironically

At least the kill yourself mechanic allows you to shoot some more

[queen laurel]

ogryn I could say meets the criteria with theirs now

it's streamlined and very easy to understand and not all over the damn place

[plush mason]

not played it since the Arbites update lol, i am too in love with the class still

[sour hornet]

Type shit

[sacred ginkgo]

Ogryn is gen 3 now yes

[plush mason]

hopefully the other classes join it soon then

[opaque coyote]

Ogryn always win

[sacred ginkgo]

They definitely need to nerf arbitrator and ogryn a bit first

[opaque coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/ogryn-party-gif-27273801

[plush mason]

yeah that looks so much better

[plush mason]

oh agreed

[queen laurel]

Yeah plenty of choices and customization while not being all over the damn place

[queen laurel]

true i love the class but my god

ogryn and Arbi can brutalize a lobby

[sacred ginkgo]

If vet is getting a rework then zealot is still stuck in perpetual hell

It would be so funny if they reveal that they’re never reworking zealot and it’s just an allusion to the eternally unchanging dogma of the imperium

[opaque coyote]

just like the emperor

https://cdn.7tv.app/emote/01JTA6SWH4MA14NYBB72DYJQHZ/2x.webp

jokes aside, I think Vet needs it a bit more

[sacred ginkgo]

Vet requires the most effort to make work

You have to play your entire kit

[unique bronze]

has a class been reworked on before, what was changed if they did

[sacred ginkgo]

Everyone except zealot and arbitrator have been reworked

Vet tree didn’t have keystones originally

Ogryn’s old tree was abysmal

(Though not as bad as zealot)

And I can’t remember old psyker tree

[opaque coyote]

True, and that's what I like about the class.

[languid meadow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1111290388825784401/1168219527948017664/F9a9IkIX0AEK7SF.gif?ex=68c8e277&is=68c790f7&hm=4e47d44699228fb0370cd68ea78ccc3a8cf6046df81747fd8941f00897eb67c6&

[opaque coyote]

But at the same time

It also feels like

"Put in more effort to get the same result"

[queen laurel]

my main build is using these two weapons and then this it's not impressively micromanage but this thing is literally a Jack of all trades that could tank shoot and do just about everything

A special you can't reach just send the dog in there

[opaque coyote]

Instead of having it's own niche, sometimes I feel like

"Man this other class can do it way better"

...god damn it really is simulating the Guardsman experience

[queen laurel]

Arbites could literally be the best tank in the game with the amount of stagger they bring

In the range department they ain't no slouch either

They could build their shotguns to blow open just about any enemy they want

And their melee weapons are just good

[sacred ginkgo]

2 best weapons and the best ability and keystone

[sacred ginkgo]

Chainsword

[queen laurel]

Yeah well chainsword is kind of bad in everyone

[sacred ginkgo]

Because it’s bad

A 1 trick weapon that isn’t even that good at its one trick

[queen laurel]

But anyway even if I'm not using the best abilities Frontline arbi and support arbi

Can do in some work too

[sacred ginkgo]

You are using the best frontline arbitrator

[queen laurel]

I thought the front line one was the charge one

[sacred ginkgo]

You have malocator and castigator with arb maul

[queen laurel]

In retrospect being able to take every single type of attack in the game without even flinching is the best type of tanking

[sacred ginkgo]

You do waste a fair few points you could spend on some of the low tree stuff like street smarts and cleave on push

[queen laurel]

Hey I'm not a buildmaster like the other people

It works for me it works enough good

[opaque coyote]

really wish it was good

It's big brother is pretty good from my experience though

The Eviscerator

[sacred ginkgo]

Evisc is cool but it’s also like

Just worse than relic blade

While doing largely the same thing

[queen laurel]

Genuinely what's the point of evis it's basically became the position of chainsaw for zealots 2 handed weapon category

The relic blades can cut through hordes

Thunder Hammer has amazing burst damage

[sacred ginkgo]

Idk
Not relic blade 2 hander

[sacred ginkgo]

(And sucks at nearly everything else)

[queen laurel]

Hey at least it has something going for it

Evis

[opaque coyote]

Unfortunately true

[queen laurel]

What

Is the point

[opaque coyote]

But Eviscerator is still better than chainsword

even though both have

zero point

[queen laurel]

You want horde clear relic blade

You really hate a specific enemy go thunder hammer

[sacred ginkgo]

If you want its strengths it can spam IoD well and can crusher 1 shot chain

[opaque coyote]

I do think both the chainsword and eviscerator need a buff

But it's kinda hard given the fact that it's

kinda of a gimmick weapon

And that gimmick requires you to

stand still

[queen laurel]

The moment their gimmick became the fact that they need to stand still in a game we're standing still can get you killed they were cooked

[opaque coyote]

Yeah I think the gimmick itself at least needs a change

Like

actually being able to move

[sacred ginkgo]

Just play tac axe and ignore every other weapon

[opaque coyote]

I think I can move left and right at least

[sacred ginkgo]

It’s good on every class

[opaque coyote]

Aware

but also that's no fun

The Blood Emperor demands his skulls for the golde-

wait that's not right...

[queen laurel]

Yes but you see my role play gets ruined

Tac axe on a self-respecting arbitrator

Please

[sacred ginkgo]

Taxe in arbitrator is amazing

Ainz has an h40 solo with it posted

[opaque coyote]

I know that like some weapons will always be better than others

because

balance moment

but I feel like the chain weapons are on the edge of like

being genuinely unfun at times

because their main gimmick is useless

[sacred ginkgo]

Because rev’ing is a highly outdated design concept

[queen laurel]

Okay that is good but like

AINZ is literally the tide game demon

The miracles that guy pulls off is like

Just something he does naturally

[opaque coyote]

It's like how

every pro in CSGO uses the M4/AK

Yes, those two weapons are the meta (tm). That doesn't mean that I don't want to use others...

or that I will be able to pull off the same shit

Also

Despite knowing that it's now CS2

I still call it CSGO

Because I constantly forget that until after I say it

[sharp pollen]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372935544109531147/1417038344046510130/IMG_20250915_094406_865.jpg?ex=68c9074c&is=68c7b5cc&hm=87e862f3b4e3aa2beb3a10c7b31e95e97c1389e55b399369077042fa850b3372&

[arctic talon]

goes hard

[sour hornet]

real

its why I almost never run dueling sword on psyker

why the fuck would I do that when I have magic swords

[opaque coyote]

Black Templar after seeing their Primaris reinforcements

[rocky gale]

Nice argument unfortunately I am currently poking you with my dueling sword

[ivory umbra]

Tac axe is amazing on Arby

[ivory umbra]

The drooling sore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish the ds disappeared forever

Kinda

Make is psyker exclusive again

[arctic talon]

DS doesn’t feel like it fits any of the zealot personalities flavor wise lol

Maybe the Agitator

[ivory umbra]

Idk why they didn’t add the rapier

It was pretty good

[vestal stirrup]

only have a cursory knowledge of other WH games and TTRPGs, so out of curiosity

how would the shit our characters have to deal with on high difficulty missions rank?

like, for ex. on an Auric Maelstrom, rather than just four dipshits, what kind of response would the same level of enemy resistance call for in other warhammer games?

[ivory umbra]

I mean

[arctic talon]

For the quantity of enemies in an auric maelstrom

You’d be looking at like

[ivory umbra]

Our rejects solo deamonhosts

[arctic talon]

A lot of people lol

Our rejects are exceptional

But there’s an upper limit to even like

The usual plot armor stuff lol

[ivory umbra]

And beast of nurgel

[vestal stirrup]

yeah, thats why i was asking basically

[arctic talon]

Auric maelstrom and anything above like

Malice is basically non canon

[ivory umbra]

And a bunch of other shit lol

[arctic talon]

In terms of enemy quantity

The Moebian sixth would be extinct

lol

[vestal stirrup]

mainly wanted some kinda measuring stick to put how rediculous it was into perspective

[ivory umbra]

We’re space marine level

[arctic talon]

Okay to put it into better perspective

If you get by a lasgun as a normal human

You’re dead

The rejects do not fight the quantity of enemies they do in game

[vestal stirrup]

lmao

[arctic talon]

It’s not feasible lore wise

Like even with plot armor

[ivory umbra]

They’re built different

[arctic talon]

Like it just wouldn’t work for the plot of the game

Because the Moebian sixth would actually be fucking extinct

Aside from that the rejects are like, the named characters inside a book

[arctic talon]

Regarding this if they needed to fight auric maelstrom quantity of enemies, you would see like 20-30+ people from grendyl’s warband at least

Even if it’s mostly poxwalkers

There gets a point where you literally just get drowned in bodies

If we had lore accurate Darktide we’d barely see any moebians per mission and it would be mostly plague zombies and poxwalkers

With cultists as well

[sour hornet]

Scions.

And more than four.

There's literally nothing we face that the Inquisition cannot handle — handling this is our job after all. But in "lore", you'd just scale up the numbers until the job gets done.

Instead of sending four guys on a suicide mission, just send 20 guys on a hard one.

Scions are often basically gangpressed from training into Inquisitorial service as Stormtroopers.

[rocky gale]

Wait sorry I forgot it’s not the Psyker I use dueling sword on, it’s Veteran

I use two handed force sword for Psyker

[sour hornet]

Okay larmoth

you are based

this is why I trust all maddie stans

[storm jungle]

Thats kinda what gets me when the fandom constantly assumes the people we play are "four dipshit nobodies"

literally everyone minus the zealot has some expertise in war and fighting lol

especially compared to cultists who are in comparison actual homeless people with guys

[median star]

some of the dregs are likely former military aswell seeing as you can frequently also see pox walkers or whatever the less fucked up horde one is still wearing dog tags sometimes

[queen laurel]

The Ogryn alone could physically dumpster just about anything that comes our way

The psyker has plenty of magical bullshit that would literally melt a lot of the enemies in a single blast

Veterans are veterans for a reason because they have survived in a job where someone could die in literal seconds

arbites are trained to be brutal enforcers design specifically to make sure the planet keeps their end of the deal in tithes

Even the zealots that are hobos seem exceptionally proficient in close range fighting for someone that is just a civilian that is screaming on the top of their lungs

[dapper gyro]

Malice is where you start to see enemy orgryn, but rarely. It meets most of the notes of the Darktide lore.

Or general 40k for that matter.

Also, in the lore, they could send a dozen bodies, but for gameplay, you play only as 4.

[raven stone]

Sigh more Ultra slop

Should have seen that coming

[nocturne crest]

Honestly, this ultra slop makes me feel bad for BA players.

[rocky gale]

Yea

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-misery-sad-gif-5882486224854832737

[rose thorn]

probabbly the best or worst falafels you will ever have

woooooooooooooooooooooOOOO

also

[shadow plover]

not a fan of the cape

[green loom]

Big fan of the cape

[shadow plover]

I like the idea of it but the execution is a bit stiff

[queen laurel]

it's I like the Cape or no Cape world out there

[queen laurel]

Strength build player aura farming in Eldon ring

[rose thorn]

hes a pemrannt model btw

for some reason

also bulgur

[green loom]

A wha

[rose thorn]

the spac emarine captain is staying for sale

[green loom]

oh

[rose thorn]

its not a limited time model

[queen laurel]

ah yes hippies vs pro industrialists let's go

[rose thorn]

the deer are confrimed

they are coming

[valid needle]

It’s peak

[rose thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/noko-kanoko-anime-my-deer-friend-nokotan-shikanoko-nokonoko-koshitantan-gif-13918863298767716207

also the aos server is crashing out about new space marine mini

[queen laurel]

yeah i guessed that

Like seriously

why ultramarines

[rose thorn]

they were fine wiht the ultramairne releases but the smash captain being permanently apart fo the range

[valid needle]

Can you invite me

[queen laurel]

yeah the chaos not staying is funny

[valid needle]

I love crash outs

[rose thorn]

its the r/age of sigmar server

[valid needle]

Oh Reddit

[nocturne crest]

Why the crash out?

[queen laurel]

don't let that fool you it's a pretty good server

[rose thorn]

because isntead of having space marine players do miscropsic amount of kitbashing to get a smash captain they got a ne wmini

[valid needle]

No I just mean oh Reddit server because I assumed discord server

[rose thorn]

its a discord server

[queen laurel]

It has a discord server

[rose thorn]

its the r/ageofsigmar reddit discord server

[queen laurel]

The chaos Lord model won't stay but the space marine one will

[valid needle]

https://tenor.com/view/bookio-gif-13932157847762104386

Jk I get it

[nocturne crest]

Oh.

[queen laurel]

and rightfully so the people are like why the fuck

[nocturne crest]

So GW playing favourites again?

[queen laurel]

yeah

And this one is like literally so blatant and straight to the face you may as well just jump off a cliff

GW has done stuff like this but like

You still feel annoyed

[rose thorn]

this is the casue fo teh crash out

[queen laurel]

yeah

the spaceman mini is staying the chaos one no

which is just why why

Like genuinely you already gave ultramarines a new calgar

Add new minis

[nocturne crest]

Maybe the chaos one is going to be apart of something else?

[queen laurel]

they don't seem to have a plan to add him on anything else

so

https://tenor.com/view/peter-griffin-crash-out-angry-gif-15667791719891680630

[rose thorn]

hes an exalted hero which already has a plastic mini

[nocturne crest]

That's stupid.

[nocturne crest]

That's stupid and it's blatant fomo

[storm jungle]

And people are still gonna buy it

😔

[queen laurel]

yeah but that's GW

[nocturne crest]

Off topic thought, but would anyone buy a 40k kart racer.

It would make sense for something like Twisted Metal to exist in 40k.

[nocturne crest]

Oh yeah.

I wonder how many players are online.

[vagrant fox]

Last time I played just before it launched it was like 50 players so I'm guessing not a lot

[nocturne crest]

Damn. I guess everyone is playing SM 2 instead.

[storm jungle]

SM2 kinda sucks bals too

its more that nobody really plays these kinds of games anymore

[queen laurel]

yeah i am like 90% sure you asked a random gamer nowadays if they know about twisted metal they're gonna look at you like what twisted metal

[rose thorn]

The causal gaming meta rn is battle royals but I heard it might shift soon

Actually wait it’s friend stuff

Uh

Like lethal company

[queen laurel]

To be fair peak repo lethal company are good games

[rose thorn]

Omg this is the funniest shit ever

[queen laurel]

damn

[rose thorn]

Ye, I never played them though i play peak like omelet you cook and luck be a land lord

[rocky gale]

Why

[lament shoal]

Cool model

Might get that one someday

[rocky gale]

They really needed another model

[rose thorn]

So excited

[rocky gale]

Ohhhhh more Kurnothi

[queen laurel]

@arctic talon you are right it's about time pro industrialist versus wooden killers and gardeners

[rose thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/noko-kanoko-anime-my-deer-friend-nokotan-shikanoko-nokonoko-koshitantan-gif-13918863298767716207

We will rise

These wicked despoilers stand no chance against the power of kurnoth’s chosen children

His wild hunt will grow

[queen laurel]

said the Kurnothi before getting trampled by a dominator engine

[rose thorn]

Lmao

[late verge]

Do tau fire warriors really have poor reflexes? I find that hard to believe considering they are 1. Descended from prey animals, which usually need quick reflexes to survive and 2. Genetically engineered to be soldiers, sorta like space marines (though in practice they're closer to guardsman yada yada yada)

[storm jungle]

You might, but GW writers arent known for being smart

[late verge]

Is there any actual evidence that tau fire warriors are inferior in those senses

[storm jungle]

its in the books, but its not really explained well there either lol

[late verge]

Also, is there eyesight actually worse than a human's? That especially doesn't make sense to me considering they rely so much on long range marksmanship.

[rocky gale]

When I was a kid I thought things like quicksand was the greatest evil in the world, now I am grown and know it is in fact the biblical greed of a Space Marine collector

[late verge]

It feels like gw just really wants the Tau to be worse even when it doesnt make sense for them to be. Like, all the other castes being inferior sure, but fire warriors are literally bred for fighting. Why would they be worse combatants than even the average guardsman?

[storm jungle]

Its just a artificial handicap, dont think too hard about it.

[queen laurel]

@celest dome Chaos Warrior Magister Symbaresh Twinsoul

[late verge]

Theyre supposed to be the quality over quantity dudes too! But apparently they're also worse? Then how did they survive the damocles crusade and wipe out like 6 chapters of spehse mahreens

[storm jungle]

Its just a artificial handicap, dont think too hard about it.

[late verge]

Bweh

[storm jungle]

Realistically speaking Tau would wipe the floor generally with the Imperium just from a technology standpoint but they just dont lol

[queen laurel]

also Slaughterpriest Warlock Engineer Putrid Blightking but no image

[late verge]

Tbh yeah. If the tau were humans and the imperium were aliens nobody would argue the tau have "plot armor"

[storm jungle]

Also people do not understand how unfair drone combat is

[celest dome]

Better access to quite good tech

[rose thorn]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/budnjlac/fellblades-roll-out-five-tanks-in-five-legion-schemes/

[late verge]

The imperium has drones sorta too tho tbf right? Don't the admech have those?

[rose thorn]

Am I crazy saying this shoudl not be an HH vehicle

[storm jungle]

Not really to the extent of tau

[rose thorn]

SO EXCITED

[storm jungle]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Drone

like

lmao

[late verge]

See this is the excuse but realistically if all tau were as dumb and incompetent as gw insists they are it wouldn't make a difference

[queen laurel]

oh yeah these too

[celest dome]

Undivided or Tzeentch ?

[lament shoal]

Can't be worse than pokemon card scalpers

[rose thorn]

Oo nurgle and chaos sorcerer lord

[queen laurel]

nurgle and tzeentch

[late verge]

That is deffo true. I always thought it was interesting how in any other setting the tau would probably be humans but bc 40k is weird (/pos) theyre aliens

[storm jungle]

No offense but ill take Pokeymen scalpers over marine dudes

[rose thorn]

This is S2D

[celest dome]

Did GW imply they're dumb ? And incompetent (Unlike the Imperium...)

[vagrant fox]

That's practically every faction, don't worry

[storm jungle]

Thats mostly because they are based on earlier generation NATO forces

down to the way they even operate

i forgot what issue it was in but this was outright said by Gav Thorpe in a white dwarf article

[late verge]

Ive just heard a lot that tau fire warriors are meant to be physically weaker, less intelligent, have poorer reflexes and senses, (even poorer eyesight) and are more cowardly, than even baseline humans, which by 40k standards are already outclassed by practically everything except in sheer numbers

[late verge]

Oh neat

Didnt know this

[storm jungle]

Yeah its why their earlier iterations before battlesuit-mania had them fight like an army from the 21st century.

[late verge]

I always thought they were meant to be an allegory for ancient china and (to an extent) modern china

[storm jungle]

Nah their influence is japanese

down to fire warrior armor being modelled after samurai segmented plating

[late verge]

Makes more sense actually

[storm jungle]

also things like the ritual blades they carry

also all the bald/ponytail combos etc

[late verge]

And their philosophy of the greater good always struck me as more similar to modern american "benevolent" imperialism (we're bringing democracy! Vs we're bringing the greater good!) more than communism

So the nato comparison actually makes a lot of sense

[storm jungle]

They arent communist

[celest dome]

Less inteligent I have never heard of, but ye, they're somewhat weaker, but their access to tech make them really much stronger than that

[storm jungle]

that shit is a meme

[celest dome]

The closest to communist are the Eldar

[spring cairn]

aren't they just as strong as a normal dude

[lament shoal]

I always thought this art was funny, like "put the gun down before you hurt yourself little guy"

[storm jungle]

that image has been memed to death yea

[spring cairn]

Tau used to be my second fav faction before LoV dropped

still love them

[vagrant fox]

As far as I remember, fire caste are pretty much the same but the T'au entirely grouped together are weaker

Fire caste probably get real food vs a malnourished guardsman too

[spring cairn]

yeah i meant the warriors

obviously the lanky air caste pilot would get folded

[late verge]

I can sorta understand weaker than baseline humans but slower reflexes? Poorer eyesight? In a universe where baseline humans are already so weak in those areas? For their warrior class? I honestly dont buy that

Same with all the fluff about them not having ftl. Like. Just say you don't like tau, don't keep nerfing them like this

[late verge]

Generally my hc is that all tau save the fire warriors are inferior in combat to the average human bc that's not their "job", but that fire warriors are superior most ways that matter

Not that it ultimately matters that much, it just annoyd me how everyonr wsnts tau to be the weak little punching bags of the setting

[median star]

i still think we should turn tau into burgers

[late verge]

No need, the imperium has already done this with humans

[queen laurel]

In the galactic scale they ain't really that big mind you but they could still punch well above their weight thanks to their tactics

[lament shoal]

Some food variety would be nice though

[queen laurel]

and of course technology

[median star]

and being blue

[queen laurel]

They have the most progressive tech in the setting as of right now

[vagrant fox]

The Tau have FTL again now

It's back to square one, for whatever reason that needed to happen

[storm jungle]

I still dont get what the deal was but I love how everyone hates their FTL lore change lol

since it was like so badly done

[vagrant fox]

It's one of the all time lore bungles in warhammer imho

[late verge]

Logically yes, but the fandom and gw is just weird abt them

[late verge]

We can have tau burger later ok? As a treat

[queen laurel]

Wait that warp skimming Gravitic Drive got change or something

[vagrant fox]

I guess the writers wanted the Startide Nexus thing to happen but they could have done that in any number of ways instead of taking away FTL, having the T'au reinvent FTL and making a big hole in space

[late verge]

I say this all as a cron fan, who thinks all organics should become pets or ash, i think the tau are shit on too much

[vagrant fox]

Yeah now they use that slipstream module afaik, what the difference is between the original stuff is a mystery

I would like the tau if they weren't so mech focused, who could possibly care about mechs this much

Well would like, would like a lot more I mean

[queen laurel]

OK so that warp skimming drive

is no longer the main option

[vagrant fox]

I don't really remember, they had the accelerator engine that disappeared into thin air, then the slipstream, then something else?

[rocky gale]

Gundam fans

[queen laurel]

tau have these two in the faster than light page for lexicanum

[vagrant fox]

I look at it the same way I look at MK7 vs MK8 space marine power armour, whateva thogg don't care

[queen laurel]

this is the canon conflict

[vagrant fox]

I recall something about the fifth sphare of expansion using a better slipstream drive but I don't have the thing at hand

[paper haven]

Gundam is pretty cool

[queen laurel]

this is their latest thingamajig to travel up faster than light apparently

[queen laurel]

and that thing apparently obliterating space just created a whole portal that if you can force your way through leads directly to the heart of the Tau empire which is the star tide Nexus stuff you mentioned

[vagrant fox]

Yeah I just wonder if they did this whole convoluted thing to make the startide nexus happen or if they planned it at all

[queen laurel]

GW ain't always smart with these lore changes

like why bother with this i mean like i could ignore it but genuinely just why

[late verge]

gravitic hooks?

[late verge]

switch the places of "always" and "ain't" and ur correct

[late verge]

neat

[queen laurel]

Hey they can cook lore

[late verge]

....sometimes

i think a lot of the basic lore around the factions is cool as hell and super unique but often the more gw elaborates the more it falls apart bc they have so much material that its gonna end up being inconsistent and weird. a little like the bible at times, tbh (no offense to any christians, but it was written over many milennia by many different authors and it kind of shows at times)

nevermind the fact that hyper-elaborating on details is already not a good idea with worldbuilding in general tbh

[late verge]

theres always gonna be obscure references and stuff that the ppl making the new lore don't know or didn't remember, and oftentimes you have authors making up new lore on the spot to help the story theyre trying to tell. stuff like that always makes me feel a little... idk... irked by ppl online saying "(x faction) would NEVER do (x) or (x) is ALWAYS (x)", like, idk, heretic astartes becoming loyalist. You can say the imperium wouldn't accept them, but if an author wants them to bc they think it'll make a good story or if a codex author wants to bc it'll make interesting fluff, it doesn't really matter that much.

40k lore is very uh, loose.

[storm jungle]

I mean yes.

thats what you get for a setting that has authors just loosely write novels every month

[late verge]

more like the lovecraft mythos or like, dc or marvel than, say, idk, game of thrones

[storm jungle]

Game of Thrones has a pretty set lore tbh.

DC and Marvel is more accurat elol

[vagrant fox]

august derleth should never be forgiven for fucking up lovecrafts work

[late verge]

see this may seem obvious but on subreddits like 40k lore you have ppl who are always so confident in their answers. as a baby 40k fan a couple years ago I asked something to the tune of "can servitors be conscious and does that mean that servitors can make a deal with the chaos gods?" (i was asking bc I was thinking about writing a fanficiton about that sort of thing) and nearly all the answers were a resounding "no", but then I did some further research and figured out that this exact thing had happened more or less, MULTIPLE TIMES

[storm jungle]

Because some subjects got concrete answers

just do not trust r40klore

they are dumbasses

lol

[late verge]

i was using got as an example of a story that has set lore

[vagrant fox]

I only use that place to look up excerpts

[late verge]

ik that now but I didn't then

[storm jungle]

Well yes lol

[storm jungle]

You poor fool

theres a reason I have grown to absolutely hate r40klore

its such a circlejerk subreddit too

[storm jungle]

Also this lmao

[outer wave]

Ngl the concept of a servitor making a deal with the chaos gods is cool

[late verge]

my point is that concrete answers are a lot rarer in 40k than ppl think. concrete answers like "the imperium hates aliens and heretics and are all morons" are set in stone but more specific things like "is the imperial faith a centrally organised dogma or is it more loose and based on general ideas" are almost unanswerable bc of how much lore there is. it often feels like ppl have to MAKE UP lore to answer those sorts of questions

[late verge]

the story was gonna be about a servitor who made a deal with nurgle and went out to find their lover, btw

[outer wave]

Nice!

[late verge]

:>

ty

[outer wave]

Ye no prob

[storm jungle]

Authors also make up shit on the spot sometimes which doesnt help

[vagrant fox]

40k is very loosey goosey, things can usually go one way but make up any excuse and it goes another

Yeah servitors usually are too braindead to make deals, but the process isn't fool proof

[late verge]

also the warp is fucky tbf

[outer wave]

Yeah anything could happen near a warp storm

[storm jungle]

I saw a thread on r40klore once where people were judging the darktide servitors for being "too sentient". I noted that all these lines were written by actual black library writers and they are like:

"NUH UH. That doesnt mean anything!"

the fuck do you mean it doesnt

They get more of a final say than you do on an official product you little redditor dipshit

[late verge]

alsooooo another issue i have with gw's worldbuilding sometimes is that they are VERY BIASED. We have exact specifications and measurements of things like the average width of a cockitus pattern las-tickler primaris ultrablaster's focusing aperture but we don't even have images of most tau auxiliaries or the eldar corsairs or literally anything on the dark mechanicum

[queen laurel]

Genuinely A warhammer fan's ability to ignore the truth and focus on being wrong is fucking something

You could put the truth and all of it in front of them and they would still believe the false info over it

[vagrant fox]

It's wack, at least you can create your own cool sector where things are the way you want

[storm jungle]

EXACTLY

[late verge]

i think servitors are the most fascinating part of 40k and they should be explored more. Like, the societal interactions with them. How does a religious zealot react to their family member getting servitorised? How do, say, tau gue'vesa approach the concept of servitors? Are there differing societal views on what becoming a servitor means? (aka like, "it is an honor that you get to serve the emperor once more" vs "lol get rekt scrub) Are some servitors "invisible?" (as in, just a brain in a jar piloting a machine, rather than an obviously human person who has been surgically changed) and if so, does that have an effect on how they are seen/created/interact with the world, and what if one of those servitors had a "botched" treatment? Are servitors really a 'safe' option compared to just using weak Ai like the tau and necrons are known to? What about other factions too? Maybe chaos cults who want to free servitors and theres interesting moral questions to ponder there?

But no we just get marinewank stories all the time where ultramarine chaddius garystueus uses his massive balls and faith in the emperor to singlehandedly kill the silent king, a swarmlord, commander farsight, a daemon prince of nurgle, and an eldar craftworld in a matter of seconds

[storm jungle]

Tbh we got tons of excerpts of the examples you said, its just not talked about a lot because space marine porn.

Also no servitors are not a correct option

[late verge]

yes but the fact ive never heard of any says something

[storm jungle]

the Leagues of Votann and Tau prove this

[late verge]

....how do the tau and lov prove this?

[storm jungle]

servitors are extremely fucked up as a concept and are morally wrong

[storm jungle]

...they got drones?

...also the Ironkin? Hello?

[late verge]

OH

misunderstood you

[storm jungle]

Ironkin prove this even more

because like

they are literally a dwarf

but a robot

they act no different lol

[late verge]

i thought you were saying "no servitors are not a correct option"

[storm jungle]

I mean they arent

servitors are born from the fear of AI, when in universe we got examples in M41 of them not being malicious robots

[late verge]

and I wasnt saying that they could ever be morally correct, I was just saying there should be challenges to the occassional out of universe assumption that servitors are used because theyre "safer" for "humanity" than "abominable intelligence"

[storm jungle]

Yeah I know im just making a statement

literally the only defense people can say against Ironkin/Tau Drones is "well humanity had a AI Rebellion"

which we got no idea why it even happened in the first place btw

[late verge]

EVEN IF ai was as dangerous as the imperium thinks it is, and it clearly isn't, (tbh the DAoT isnt even a good example of ai gone wrong bc the DAoT humans used AI for twice as long as the imperium has existed with less than no issue and it took slaanesh vomiting all over the entire universe for that to change)

[queen laurel]

Who knew that treating robots who given sapiens with respect and the same amount of value as human life leads to good results

[rocky gale]

Can't be making statements in Lore Chat, you just gotta post

[summer mural]

Servitors are super fucked up, especially when like you start getting into the whole the persons consciousness is inside

[storm jungle]

you are essentially enslaved as well

[queen laurel]

Granted you can no longer express your love for dark elder sisters of battle and daughters of khaine

[storm jungle]

"they are lobotomized" is an even more inhumane excuse

theres still a person in there

[queen laurel]

So what you're saying is I could legally turn my employees into construction equipment as long as I gouge out the frontal lobe with a wrench

[late verge]

the more efficient choice, the more morally correct choice, and the more ideologically consistent choice (as in consistent with their human supremacist doctrine) would be to just use paid workers, maybe who opt into cybernetic augmentation like the mechanicus.

or hell even use the geneseed you honestly waste on space marines to make mentats from dune

[storm jungle]

its not even paid workers

JUST AUTOMATE THE PROCESS

WE LITERALLY DO IT TODAY

AND ITS NOT EVEN HIGH TECH

[hallow plover]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-darktide-warhammer-40k-darktide-warhammer-medicae-gif-9654652004289373724

[late verge]

thats another thing ppl miss, the imperium uses servitors for tons of things that we don't even need ai for now. like we dont use crazy ai for barbers and as coat hangers. but the imperium uses lobotomised slaves for them bc they actually despise humans and humanity and actually see all humans save the most genetically or physically deformed of them (space marines, custodes, and especially admech) as vermin

and these are the ideas and concepts I would love to see explored more commonly in warhammer. I love servitors.

[storm jungle]

💀💀💀💀💀

[rocky gale]

That's something touched on in Above and Beyond ||Shard admits that the most terrifying aspect of staring down the Tyranids isn't the monsters itself, but that she realised that if the Imperium figured out how that's what it would turn it's people into, mindless drones obeying utterly without question or doubt or any sense of selfworth or identity||

[storm jungle]

YEP.

Its one of my favorite bits of satire in Helldivers 2 as well where Super Earth is studying Illuminate mind contorl technology from how they turned people into the Voteless to turn it to their use.

But they say this and clarify they totally wont use it for that purpose lmao

peak fascism

[valid needle]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-my-honest-reaction-damn-skull-skeleton-gif-15885937969029652188

[storm jungle]

Worst part is an techpriest would 100% do this lol

I read a short story where one literally dooms her lover techpriest to be a ctan vessel to continue her own work as a xenarite lmfao

[queen laurel]

Bastard

rat bastard

[tough haven]

No human bastard

[shadow plover]

how come?

[rose thorn]

Its not like lost technology or anything it’s a rhino with a turret ontop

[shadow plover]

that would be a predator then, no?

this is like twice the size

or thrice

[opaque coyote]

"Bro trust us"

"We won't mind control you."

Although as a genuine curiosity, isn't Super Earth basically ruled by AI?

[rose thorn]

Ah I got the tanks mixed up

Thank

[shadow plover]

ah

[opaque coyote]

"No trust me, I need to lobotmize this person so that they can wipe my ass for me. It is extremely necessary."

[late verge]

yandere tech priest gf

nobody wants this

[rose thorn]

Space marine captain, who wants it? And yes I’m selling it. Remember; buy, buy buy. And chaos, don’t get blocked

[valid needle]

New chaos lord > cringe 17th variation of a captain.

[lament shoal]

Helldivers mentioned

[storm jungle]

*Dickdivers

[arctic talon]

Both of the warhammer day minis are boring as fuck this year lol

Ig they’re both callbacks to old posing

[rose thorn]

people really like the exalted hero of chaos

[arctic talon]

But very w/e

[arctic talon]

He’s boring still

[rose thorn]

the space marine is a permanent addition btw

[arctic talon]

Like neither one of them is bad

They’re just boring

[arctic talon]

Oh bruh

[rose thorn]

hes not a warhammer day mini

[arctic talon]

Weird

[rose thorn]

yeah

its because the normal sprue didnt come with the smash captain load out

so they are selling the smash captian sepreat

[arctic talon]

Just do it yourself smh

[rose thorn]

yeah lmao

[arctic talon]

The long forgotten art of Kitbashing/j

[rose thorn]

space marine fan does an arm swap challenge

[arctic talon]

All the new exalted champion of chaos does is make me think of the current one

lol

Which iirc is old

Like really old

Or is it the chaos lord

[rose thorn]

people in the aos server say they are gonna run him as a chaos lord

[dapper gyro]

It is not forgotten, it is just the influx of new people who don't know the art of kitbashing.

[arctic talon]

I’m joking

[rose thorn]

the cahso lord is as old as sin

[arctic talon]

People even new players know Kitbashing

It’s very common still in my experience

[dapper gyro]

The old school military modeling are freak in term of bashing.

[rose thorn]

christ

[arctic talon]

Bro was old even in whfb

lol

Anyways new chaos lord when GW

[rose thorn]

probably next edition with the chariots

[arctic talon]

Lowkey might be better to convert the csm chaos lord

Lmao

The armor is similar enough, just gotta get rid of the backpack and some 40K bits lol

Anyways new S2D chaos lord

I need it

please be multi part

[rose thorn]

he is like 40% of the way there tbf

[arctic talon]

Yeah lmao

Get rid of the helmet and power pack

Swap out the weapon

[rose thorn]

id swap the whole arms tbh

[arctic talon]

Yeah fair they’re quite mechanical

[rose thorn]

file off the sicif stuff on ches t

scifi stuff*

[arctic talon]

It’s kind of insane to me

How many chaos lords AoS has gotten

Aside from the basic fucking chaos lord

lol

[rose thorn]

lmao

[arctic talon]

AM I WRONG?

It’s so funny

[rose thorn]

i think its liek 4 in 8 years right?

let me check

holy shi

t

[arctic talon]

It’s way older

lol

That dude is old old

You can tell he’s hand sculpted

[rose thorn]

crazy these both rleeleased in the same edition

and both look like ass

damn tehse are good models

except hte old jump pack

i think the 6th edition chaos lord would be best for an aos conversion

[arctic talon]

Yeah

He’s got the least 40K bits on him

One tiny tiny issue though

He’s basically like

Mostly put together lol

[rose thorn]

damn

hes also rare as hell

[arctic talon]

Yeah

He was only in the 6 and 7e starter box

Which was also not generic marines

It was dark angels

[rose thorn]

wait they did dark angels vs crimson slaughter twice

hey back in the day did people complain about all the 40k box sets had normal sapce marines

[late verge]

ive said this one million times but darkmech would be cool as a unique faction for a tide game

[rose thorn]

it took til 8th eediton to have an army box that did not have space marines

loyalist mariens*

[arctic talon]

Yes

Also complaining about marine releases was way worse back then

Because everyone else got stuff way less

lol

[late verge]

aesthetically distinct from nurgle, you could have servitors as horde enemies, theres not much lore so lots of room for creativity, and you could have them also use fucked up versions of normal mechanicum stuff. so like, castellan robots and stuff

[arctic talon]

Marines do get more stuff now

[late verge]

and gunner servitors

[arctic talon]

But like

So does literally everyone else

[rose thorn]

this was the first army set in warhammer 40k that did not have space marines in it

[arctic talon]

Still sucks that marines get that much more

[rose thorn]

not evne counting csm

[arctic talon]

Oh hey I bought this

Lol

[rose thorn]

lmao

[arctic talon]

Split it with 2 friends lol

Between the crons and armigers

[rose thorn]

this was the second

then right after there was an eldar vs eldar box

bruh eldar gto the short end of the stick on this on

[arctic talon]

Drazhar punching down like usual/j

[rose thorn]

lmao

if i had friends btw and split this box with someone i would be an eldar plaeyr in 2025

i loved all the rangers in this box

[arctic talon]

The eldar won that box lore wise

Shame all the army combo boxes sold badly

Aside from the edition start ones

[rose thorn]

lmao

wait did eldar not get an army box this ediiton

[arctic talon]

I mean not everyone gets one

But no they didn’t get one

Not unless you count a combat patrol

[rose thorn]

i dont

i was gonna say something really mean but i didnt

[arctic talon]

lol

Drukhari got one

Tbh it’s arguably preferable to not

Get an army box and just get the unit straight released

[rose thorn]

all odl dmodels

lmao

oh yeah remember the apocolaypse boxes

uniorncially probably one of th best things they ever sold

[arctic talon]

Eldar are basically done update wise

Aside from like the vyper

Which looks ugly as fuck

Karandras and dire avengers also need one

[rose thorn]

lmao

okay some of these are bad

oh elite wanan see the funniest one?

[arctic talon]

I think I know

Which one you’re sending

Shoot

[arctic talon]

Lmao

[rose thorn]

Ah eys, 500 points of knights

[arctic talon]

Combat patrol

Imperial knights

I think it’s like 600 rn lol

[rose thorn]

Lmao

“You see the imperial knights ahve been replacing their armor with glass so that’s why armingers are 60 points

[queen laurel]

But don't worry it's a rare type of glass called adaglassium

It will surely hold

It will not

[rose thorn]

It can withstand 100 bolter rounds when being read about

[dapper gyro]

But can be destroyed by a hammer some times down the lore.

[nocturne crest]

What are these?

[rose thorn]

Old 8th edition army boxes

[nocturne crest]

Ah.

Anyway, I got a question: If the orks ended up in the Halo Universe, would their race survive the firing of the rings?

[storm jungle]

Nope.

The Rings destroy any and all life.

The Flood are even more infectious than Orks and even they were completely near annihilated minus some lab samples.

[outer wave]

Who the fuck gets lab samples of flood?

Isnt that the worst idea?

[nocturne crest]

Wait, can the flood affect plants?

[hexed orchid]

Not if they cope themselves into thinking they can control it

[nocturne crest]

Damn, it's been 10 years since Undertale was released.

[outer wave]

Every mad scientist villain ever

[hexed orchid]

That crazy plague/disease/alien race has to come back somehow

[storm jungle]

The Flood can literally infect reality itself if they advance enough

if they appeared in 40k they'd likely destroy the entire universe lol

[outer wave]

Me, feeding the flood the average Imperial civvies and nothing else 😏

[queen laurel]

Something designed to obliterate life itself will kill orks

[queen laurel]

They are literally corrupted powdered gods

That could strangle universal Bridges and planets if they have enough biomass

[dapper gyro]

The Halo ring cannot purge all of the flood, but it kills their foods source, aka all other life forms.

The flood has limitation on growth, without assimilation, it can't absorb itself to survive.

[queen laurel]

Yeah The reason why flood are so horrifying is because they still have things that used to make them precursors

Being part God like species helps

[languid meadow]

I mean true but the floods goal is the end of ALL life and if advanced enough they could prob make it to another galaxy

[queen laurel]

Aren't they basically just The corrupted job of the precursors

[languid meadow]

They ARE the precursors

[queen laurel]

I know that I'm just saying the way they do their infection stuff

Isn't that just basically a corrupted job of the precursors

[languid meadow]

precursors whole thing was seeding life and guiding species, the flood want to kill and consume all life as punishment to everything they created. So yeah it's a bit of their old principle corrupted.

"Our urge to create is immutable. We must create. But the beings we create shall never again reach out in strength against us. All that created will suffer. All will be born in suffering. Endless greyness shall be their lot. All creation will tailor to failure and pain that never again shall the offspring of the eternal fount rise up against their creators. Listen to the silence. 10 million years of deep silence and now whispers and cries, not birth. That is what we bring, a great crushing weight to press down youth and hope. No more will, no more freedom. Nothing new but agonizing death and never good shall come of it. We are the last of those who gave you breath and form. Millions of years ago. We are the last of those. Your kind defiled and ruthlessly destroyed. We are the last precursors. And now we are legion." - The Gravemind Halo: Silentium

[queen laurel]

Yeah so they are just seeding life Life that is so dangerous it makes the citizens of Detroit look like angels

They just kill every living thing to corrupt it into a disgusting biomass-based ecosystem

[languid meadow]

I really like how simple Urkhan is

[dapper gyro]

They can corrupt, but they can't evolve. The flood pure forms are strong and look like an evolution, but is actually their peak and they don't move over very far from that.

[queen laurel]

It is criminal this is not staying but the space marine one is

[queen laurel]

I thought their peak was the key mind

You know like the one that corrupts a planet

Wait not that the grave mind

[dapper gyro]

It is the "pure form".

[languid meadow]

their "transgalactic stage" is the theoretical limit

when it comes to anything of theirs but that's just infection radius/power

their pure forms Ie the ones you fight in H3/HW2 are their pinnacle as "individuals"

[queen laurel]

I suppose

[dapper gyro]

Key Mind and pure form are the same thing. Basically what the flood is, nothing left from the former host.

[queen laurel]

What about the grave mind then it's literally the final form of all their absorbed knowledge balled up into a being shouldn't that be like the peak of what a flood could be

[rocky gale]

Keyminds is the term for any of the like processing forms of Flood

[languid meadow]

Juggernauts fall under this category as well

[dapper gyro]

Yes, as the name implies, it is the one to control the flood.

Flood is like the nids, it is a single hive mind. Every flood unit is also the grave mind. The grave mind from is the physical form dedicated to think and control.

Without gravemind, they can't form complex thought and plan.

[crystal forum]

god i need to learn how to animate

[queen laurel]

That is true

[celest dome]

Flood is imo more impressive than the Tyranids

[rocky gale]

Yea like there is intent and malice behind the Flood

They aren't just hungry

They want the universe to suffer, they want to inflict the most misery they can

[crystal forum]

just for the hell of it too

it's not like the flood gets any power from the suffering

[rocky gale]

Out of Spite and revenge

They created life in the universe and were good and their creations betrayed them out of jealousy

So now they want everything to suffer

[crystal forum]

im now realizing that the fan theory of the nids being made by old ones is basically the flood

[celest dome]

My theory is that the Tyranids are something of a universe white cells

Chaos is an invader/parasite/virus

and when that happen, Tyranids develop to stop and cleanse them out

[crystal forum]

but isnt chaos tied to the warp

and to sentient life

[celest dome]

Chaos invade through the Warp and the realm of souls

But they're outworldy

[opaque coyote]

I hate the fact that I just realized this

[rocky gale]

Suppose you could think of Chaos as bacteria that lives on the skin, perfectly fine to be there but once you've got a cut it makes it's way into the body and start wrecking havoc.

[opaque coyote]

The Black Legion and Chaos SMs are basically Decepticons

Like

They infight as much as decepticons

They often have the same "might makes right" philosophy for their leadership

Abaddon is basically G1 Megatron in how much he fails but still persists

And somehow still leads

Who would count as Starscream though

[arctic talon]

Abbadon is much more competent

lol

[rocky gale]

Haarken

[celest dome]

What is Starscream's role ?

[arctic talon]

Second in command

Which abbadon doesn’t technically have

[opaque coyote]

I would say

More like a tumor

[arctic talon]

He has a council of nerds

Who are his “second in commands”

[opaque coyote]

Also tries to usrup the Leader

Like often

So much so that it's ridiculous

[arctic talon]

None

Because abbadon kills anyone who tries

lol

[opaque coyote]

"MY EQUILIBRIUM... DESTABLIZED URRRGGHH"

"ABADDON HAS FALLEN. I, STARSCREAM, AM NOW YOUR NEW LEADER. BLACK LEGION, FOLLOW ME!"

[arctic talon]

Abbadon is actually extremely competent lol

He wins more then he loses in general

[opaque coyote]

Aware. He's in it for the long haul basically

[arctic talon]

If anything he doesn’t have enough actual strategic defeats

[rocky gale]

Yea and the loses are usually on purpose to get rid of rivals

[opaque coyote]

Each black crusade a strategic taking of a slice of pie

...

[arctic talon]

Well even beyond that

Abbadons losses only happen whenever he’s basically already won

[opaque coyote]

Although I think (please correct if wrong) that old lore didn't really have much detail on the previous black crusades

Which is why he still sorta struggles to get rid of the SATAM cartoon villain reputation

Because people just assumed that he failed 12 times.

Instead of the current lore where it's actually a long term plan

[opaque coyote]

I like to think that in-universe. The Imperium spreads propaganda that he failed his previous 12 black crusades

As a form of cope

And actively tries to ignore that Abaddon is playing the long game

[arctic talon]

Yes

[valid needle]

Abbadon a bitch he need 4 chaos gods to get his back just to beat an old bald guy with a sword

[arctic talon]

He wasn’t juiced up then

Just so you know

[valid needle]

That mf always juicing

[arctic talon]

All marines are on the juice

Chaos marines are just on extra chaos juice

But abbadon wasn’t juiced up on the 4 chaos gods when he killed sig

[rocky gale]

Is it better to be on the juice or the sauce?

[arctic talon]

Neither

[valid needle]

Juice

[lament shoal]

Smoking that chaos pack lmfao

Ultra potent weed sourced straight from Nurgle's garden

[valid needle]

Where the fulgrim party at let me snort up that warp dust

[valid needle]

Straight from nurgles garden on the world of Cali

[storm jungle]

I remember a thread where someone was asking how is Sigismund such a good duellist

[arctic talon]

He just is

[storm jungle]

and the answers were just "He just is/Hes that good."

[arctic talon]

We don’t get an answer on that lol

[storm jungle]

what a great convincing backstory