40k-lore-chat

[opaque coyote]

Honestly, that is fitting.

I always thought that part of the reason why he hated religion so much is because he's kinda afraid on what it'd do to him

[spare osprey]

The wording is kinda weird tho imo

[paper haven]

Well the Emperor definitely has had the most humans sacrificed to him

[opaque coyote]

...

what the fuck does that actually mean

[spare osprey]

Like the whole “if he’s revived” kinda just makes it sound like if he’s normal and off the throne kill him

[arctic talon]

The Atheric domains

[opaque coyote]

Cause that would technically be Nurgle's area

[arctic talon]

as analyzed by the mechanicus

[paper haven]

There's eight gods now

[arctic talon]

Well

Eight domains

6 claimed

[spare osprey]

I literally had no idea the arrows meant shit

[arctic talon]

3 remain

[arctic talon]

its new lore

Its from heresy 2.0

[paper haven]

Really new

[arctic talon]

its in a weird ass supplemental book

[spare osprey]

Weeeeeeird

[arctic talon]

And its the mechanicums analysis of daemons

and such

it is noted to potentially be innacurate in universe

on purpose

[paper haven]

A meta joke

[arctic talon]

in any case the Atheric domains are the INqusition and Mechanicus's best understanding of Chaos gods and daemons

as for what undivided classifies as

[opaque coyote]

So Formless Distortion and Malevolent Artiface is probably Tzeentch.
Putrid Corruption and Ravenous Dissolution is Nurgle.
Heedless Slaughter and Internal Tempest is Khorne.
And Rapturous Sensation and Infernal Tempest is Slaanesh.

[arctic talon]

its anything they can't properly classify

[arctic talon]

they all explictly bleed into each other

but vashtor is malevolent artiface

[mossy peak]

how chaotic

[arctic talon]

Heedless slaughter is khorne

Putrid Corruption is nurgle

[paper haven]

Vashtor mentioned

[arctic talon]

rapturous sensation is slaanesh

[opaque coyote]

Oh he gets an actual domain

Good for him

[arctic talon]

Infernal Tempest is Tzeentch

[arctic talon]

he is the strongest entity of it

[paper haven]

Moving up in the world

[arctic talon]

therfore he owns it by the Mechanicus's understanding of the aetheric domains

[opaque coyote]

I honestly thought Formless Distortion would fit the most.

But eh I'm not John Mechanicus

[arctic talon]

Tzeentch heavily draws from it

but infernal Tempest is explictly connected to a named tzeentch character in heresy

lol

so its gotta be him

[paper haven]

John Grammaticus is the closest we got

[opaque coyote]

I assume Primordal Annihilator is probably Undivided in general

Or just Chaos

[paper haven]

I thought it was Primordial truth

[opaque coyote]

Could be seen as both. They have Primordal in the name.

[paper haven]

Oh, mechanicus. I get it

[opaque coyote]

The Mechanicus sees it as Annihilation

The Believers (tm) sees it as Truth

[arctic talon]

its the mechanicus's definition of it

[paper haven]

Not chaos worshipping, seems obvious now

[arctic talon]

so the chart is inherently biased

the mechanicum tried to research daemons during the heresy and modern 40k

the chart is the end result of their understanding

[opaque coyote]

It is rumored that daemons occasionally share it around and start laughing

[arctic talon]

I mean probably

[opaque coyote]

It is one of the few times they have a truce

[arctic talon]

The mechanicus got the symbology

from an insane chaos dude anyways lol

[paper haven]

Ten thousand years just to get one of those cootie catcher games

[opaque coyote]

I suppose trying to make sense of Chaos is the true insanity here.

[paper haven]

Something something insanity doing same thing

[opaque coyote]

Either way, chart is pretty cool

So the domains that are left, according to the mechanicus anyways, is Potential Annihilator, Formless Distortion, and Encroaching Ruin.

With the Emperor possibly being Encroaching Ruin

and the other two being seemingly left on the shelf

[arctic talon]

the dark king is encroaching ruin

and the dark king is seemingly the emperor

as far as everyone knows

[arctic talon]

yep

[opaque coyote]

*Primordal Annihilator

[arctic talon]

also ruinous dissolution

[opaque coyote]

good god I hate cursive

[arctic talon]

which is implied to be Malice

due to being self destructive

[opaque coyote]

makes sense

Finally

my boy gets a bit more lore

WOOO

I LOVE BEING SELF DESTRUCTIVE

[arctic talon]

It also caused the ruinstorm daemon rules to be delayed

bcs GW moment

in any case each aetheric domain got a description

[opaque coyote]

SHUT UP HADRON

LET ME HAVE MYM OMENT

[opaque coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/bruh-grumpy-cat-bruh-cat-cat-bruh-bruhh-gif-7605134534451016065

[arctic talon]

yeah

ruinstorm daemons in 2.0

kinda got neglected and abused

lol

but yeah the aetheric domains are ultimately not rigid and are broad as hell so GW can do whatever the hell they want

because Chaos is Chaos

[opaque coyote]

Makes sense, don't want to limit yourself unnecessarily

nor limit any prospective homebrewers

It's why depsite some frustrations, people are generally satisfied with how... loose the canon is.

I can say there are female space marines somewhere in the middle of ghoul stars. Fighting whatever eldritch abominations are there.

You can't prove otherwise

https://tenor.com/view/lilo-sticking-out-tongue-liloandstitch-tease-raspberry-gif-11137748

Jokes aside, I do hope they do more with the warp.

I genuinely think it's the most fascinating part of 40k.

Then again I have a general fascination with fictional Hells for some reason.

It's surprisingly fun to make a hellscape.

I think that Malice should have more exploration because the general idea makes sense and is interesting to me.

Since Chaos has two definitions.

The common definition, basically "Random Bullshit go!"

And the scientific definition, that it's the universe marching towards entropy.

Although there is plenty of gods about the common definition. I would like the self destructive nature to be explored more.

Since it seems that if anything the Chaos Gods are desperately trying to prevent that

[nocturne crest]

Dumb question, but can anyone see GW pulling a BattleTech and making an AU version of 40k?

[arctic talon]

maybe?

Prolly for something like bloodbowl lol

[nocturne crest]

I could see that.

Follow up question, but got any idea what would be the most interesting event to use as the start of this theorical AU?

Like the emperor fell or was crippled at Ullanor?

[tough haven]

The Emperor gets up and starts fucking BALLING

[nocturne crest]

All hail the god emperor of balling

[languid meadow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1263278871651024898/1400632342154051614/togif-23.gif?ex=688d5804&is=688c0684&hm=d107de11d127b08446058b67907dedbf3dc20755a0c5aa3ed94b133830b3a0ac&

[nocturne crest]

You fool. You had the wrong time set for the witch trail

[dapper gyro]

Current time shaming and cancelling are way more fun as punishment.

[paper haven]

I don't like this

[storm jungle]

They really just Fan4stic'd us 😔

[languid meadow]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Grey_Knights/s/wUBv8jUULB I was forced to read these comments and now you are to

[outer wave]

I dont wanna read those comments

I dont even know what theyre complaining about

[sharp pollen]

what is even going on there

[outer wave]

Ya momma

[sharp pollen]

custodes, grey nayts, speys marins...

these high power lore things are so dumb

[golden imp]

So I’ve seen some stuff about Russ going to save isha from nurgle. Did he have any connection with the eldar or something or is just cause he’s looking for the tree of life of whatever

[arctic talon]

No

It’s just bcs he’s looking for the tree of life

Which is a myth of fenris

Not Isha

[golden imp]

Feel like Russ would have a blast on an exodite world lol

Running around fighting dinosaurs would probably feel just like home

[storm jungle]

Its another dumbass thing people have of Primarchs doing marvel slop tier shit to undermine other faction gimmicks to look like heroes essentially.

[storm jungle]

STOP THIS

[golden imp]

Am I missing something? Wouldn’t the custodes just kill them with or without the sisters?

[arctic talon]

Russ would literally get turned into a tree

Lol

Well “tree”

If he tried

[storm jungle]

I wish.

his wolfarmor would protect him

[arctic talon]

Reasonably he would be

But they’d have big E bail him out

Like with Gman

lol

[storm jungle]

Yeah no primarch is dying in this timeline

[arctic talon]

Nah

[storm jungle]

Yah

[arctic talon]

Imagine if the Dorn retcon

[storm jungle]

no balls

[arctic talon]

Ends up with him being dead anyways

lol

[storm jungle]

Retort:

"Imagine not wanting to milk money"

[arctic talon]

Earliest primarch retcon ever

lol

[storm jungle]

[arctic talon]

It won’t happen

[storm jungle]

I would love/imagine the uproar but alas yeah

[arctic talon]

But I know at least 2 IF players with a spine and a BT one with a spine

Who want Dorn to be dead lol

[sharp pollen]

what about milk primarchs

[opaque coyote]

unfamiliar with grey knight lore

how many of them are psykers

[arctic talon]

All

[storm jungle]

All of them

[arctic talon]

That’s their gimmick

[storm jungle]

bro, do you guys read like

any lore

💀

[rose thorn]

yeah

[arctic talon]

They’re dnd paladins but evil

lol

And it’s awesome

[rose thorn]

they are 1k's other rival for a reason

[storm jungle]

they arent tbh

they are like-

well they dont really have rivals

[arctic talon]

GK are literally dnd paladins

[opaque coyote]

Thought like it was half n half tbh since some seem to just use their hand guns

[arctic talon]

It’s so fucking funny

[opaque coyote]

ba dum tss

[rose thorn]

as iconic as space wolves and orks, right guys!

[storm jungle]

[arctic talon]

Tbh wolves and orks have fought a good bit

lol

[rose thorn]

right? remember how much gaz hates the space wolves?

[arctic talon]

Well that wasn’t lore

lol

[opaque coyote]

Besides that the only thing I like about the Grey Knights is 99% of their designs

[arctic talon]

Ghaz dying to Ragnar is

I mean ig lol

[rose thorn]

lmao

[arctic talon]

He got better

[rose thorn]

im just shitposting about an old ass warcom post

[opaque coyote]

The 1% is this

[arctic talon]

Oh lmao

[opaque coyote]

Literally searched up "Grey Knight Baby Carrier" because I couldn't figure out it's actual name btw

[rose thorn]

dreadknight btw

[opaque coyote]

Apparently it's Dread Knight

[arctic talon]

Oh also speaking of Mantises, since your name talks about them, here’s a monster hunter mantis

That’s shiny

And gold

[opaque coyote]

The worst part is that it would look cool if it just like

covered the legs and arms and left only the head

[rose thorn]

AHSAYUFGAYHUU YHUGHN

[arctic talon]

and huge

[rose thorn]

SO PRETTY I LOV ELVEOLOVE LOVE IT

[arctic talon]

Also prolly the single smartest monster lore wise

Considering it knows how to use tools

[opaque coyote]

I like how it literally has a crown

[rose thorn]

i liek it tbh

[arctic talon]

She’s a fun inversion

[arctic talon]

Species is called Ahtal-Ka

[rose thorn]

desert mantises my belvoed

[arctic talon]

They get more gold the more successful the female is

[opaque coyote]

personally, my opinion is the common denominator in that

it looks like a baby carrier.

[arctic talon]

So the one in GU was absurdly successful

Considering how gold she is

[rose thorn]

lmao

[arctic talon]

But yeah they build giant mobile nests

Out of earth, wood, metal

Shaped like other monsters

[rose thorn]

OOOOO

thats so cool

and very much liek alto of real bugs

[arctic talon]

Based on the ones each ahtal ka female sees in life

The one in GU uh

Started breaking into cities to steal metal

[opaque coyote]

guy in the figure is even screaming like a baby crying

[arctic talon]

And other weapons

[opaque coyote]

it's funny

[rose thorn]

i like it, i get the idea, its somethign that teleports onto the battlefield and your supposed to jump out of quickly

[opaque coyote]

somebody did kit bash this which I think is cool

[arctic talon]

Ended up building this monstrosity that was at least 10 stories tall lol

[opaque coyote]

also puts the dread in dreadknight

[rose thorn]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[arctic talon]

It also wasn’t complete

Yet

But Ahtal Ka is a fun inversion on the usual final boss

[rose thorn]

dreadknights are supposed to be mobile its for fighting greater demons

[arctic talon]

Bcs she’s a nepteron

[opaque coyote]

big mantis make bigger mecha

[arctic talon]

And “small”

[opaque coyote]

true

still think that there should've been a cover for it.

[arctic talon]

Except then she starts using spears and cannons she stole

[rose thorn]

lmao

[opaque coyote]

so basically the monster is smart and now uses actual fucking tools

[arctic talon]

Yes

[opaque coyote]

and not just tools but literally the weapons we used

[arctic talon]

Extremely smart

Yep

[opaque coyote]

welp that is terrifying

[rose thorn]

oh yeah am i crazy, or was there a sport themed TTRPG that got super hyped and then disappeared

[opaque coyote]

it's like if it's a bear decided to suddenly use a machine gun

[arctic talon]

What’s even cooler is she’s in a ruined city

[opaque coyote]

I would run for my fucking life

[arctic talon]

And when you slay her

Most of the ruined city collapses

[rose thorn]

O

[arctic talon]

Because she was holding it up

With her silk

[opaque coyote]

damn

[rose thorn]

thats fucking cool

[arctic talon]

You needed to deal with her before she got the bright idea of dismantling a city for her personal nest

Considering she’s already using a bunch of parts from an old one + stolen stuff

[opaque coyote]

But yeah besides the Dreadknight, I generally think the Grey Knights are like

The second coolest SM

[arctic talon]

They look cool

[opaque coyote]

first being Black Templars

[arctic talon]

The armor is cool

[rose thorn]

its like junkbugs

[opaque coyote]

Because well, they embody the zealotry of the Imperium more somehow

[rose thorn]

i liek greyknights more than the llike all generic SMs, at least they are doing something besides being space marines

[opaque coyote]

I do think they look cool.

Lore is kinda eh to me though.

I do like that one Grey Knight who is supposedly a perpetual and because of that

He's just jaded as fuck

[rose thorn]

i also like the secret police, institute, you dont think the exisst or you are dead vibe

[opaque coyote]

Because he realized exactly how shitty everything is

[arctic talon]

But yeah her primary weapons besides her silk and claws are dragonators, which are giant steam powered cannon spears that get used to impale elder dragons to scare them off or slay them

[rose thorn]

redditor lore spotted

[rose thorn]

OOO

[opaque coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/genshin-impact-genshin-sentence-life-sentence-reddit-gif-24229492

||I did hear it from reddit though so you are right||

[rose thorn]

i liek eboys its fine

[opaque coyote]

[rose thorn]

i just pretend eveyrthing i hear on reddit isnt true and i like 40k alot more

[arctic talon]

A dragonator for context is that giant sharp thing on the front of the ship

[rose thorn]

i need ot kiss theworld building and art team behind MH

[arctic talon]

lol

[arctic talon]

They do put a lot of effort into it, it’s really cool

[rose thorn]

yeee

[arctic talon]

And here’s concept art of an ahtal-ka nest made out of natural materials

[rose thorn]

holy shoot

[opaque coyote]

you will never escape

https://tenor.com/view/scary-meme-dank-emoji-creepy-gif-17128309

[arctic talon]

Tbh Reddit just makes shit up a lot

[languid meadow]

Because I follow the custodes reddit to look at paint jobs I kept getting recommended the GK sub

holy shit I hate power scalers

LEAVE ME ALONE

[rose thorn]

all the time

[opaque coyote]

Yeah it's also why I usually look it up at the wiki

[opaque coyote]

Eh

Sometimes it's real. Also has some cool excerpts and book recommendations

I'm pretty sure half the people at 40klore are like

"What's a space marine?"

And the other half are

"DID YOU KNOW THAT TYBEROS HAS A MOLE ON HIS RIGHT ASS CHEEK? IT IS SHOWN IN THE 6TH BOOK OF THE WHORUS GYATT SERIES!"

With zero in-between

Either they're mfs that have never read a single wiki article or those that have read the entire Horus Heresy series.

[opaque coyote]

Actually fuck it. Y'all wanna know a slightly bad experience I had?

So I once asked how I should a 40k crossover at r/40klore.

I think I wanted to crossover it with Honkai Star Rail.

I know that asking how I should do a crossover probably was a bad idea. But I just really wanted other people's opinions on how a crossover would work and had... absolutely no idea on how to ask.

And then somebody just went on a rant about how 40k is dark and isn't like the prissy gacha anime shit or something

And that "You can have your happy kissy anime thingies but that isn't how 40k works."

And I didn't even know how to even respond. So I didn't.

I was just busy being flabbergasted.

[outer wave]

They'd be surprised on how dark (and sometimes edgy) anime can get

[opaque coyote]

Honkai Star Rail has nearly as much casual genocide as 40k

I'm not even joking. Half the lore blurbs are just

"Oh btw their planet blew up and they all died."

[outer wave]

Lmao

Damn I should be asking my friend that play HSR

[opaque coyote]

Basically HSR has:

The AI Takeover but on crack

Tyranids but on crack

[outer wave]

Bruhhhh

[rose thorn]

oh look at that, its too much free time etoo little energy oclock. I guess i should work on that campaign i wanted to do.

[opaque coyote]

The Swarm are basically just if the Star trooper bugs fucked the Tyranids and then gave that baby steroids.

They are ridiculous

Imagine if the Tyranids just did

Mitosis

In like two seconds

[rose thorn]

i wanted to make a scifi style sport rpg (for genesys because im not starting from scratch)

[opaque coyote]

In front of you

[rose thorn]

waht sport should i rip off

i was thinking hockey or soccer

[opaque coyote]

Simple

American Football if you want violence.

[rose thorn]

50/50 balance between violence and scoring

[opaque coyote]

Or actual Football

[outer wave]

Call it BallFoot

[opaque coyote]

Like Rocket League is basically Football but cars.

You could also make an underground Servitor Fighting Ring

[rose thorn]

not for warhammer

just in general

[opaque coyote]

Dang

...

Robot fighting ring

[rose thorn]

i played some anime sport games and gto inspired

[opaque coyote]

The funniest part is that

The Swarm originated from a guy basically being so lonely, he started walking the path of propagation by mistake and became a God because he just

He just really wanted to not be alone anymore

He was alone because his entire race got enslaved

Forced to fight each other

And then all died out

[rose thorn]

i want people to murder each other while still trying to score, balance hittng the opponent and hititng hte ball

[opaque coyote]

With only him as like the last survivor

[rose thorn]

so i need to figure out hwo scoring works

so im gonna jsut steal

ill steal form hockey actually

[opaque coyote]

It's soccer.

But with a catch.

Their legs are augmented so that they can kick a metal ball with the force of a cannon.

However, the rest of them aren't.

So if you get hit

Well suddenly you're a donut

[rose thorn]

pff

[opaque coyote]

Prisoners are forced to play it for freedom

[rose thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/dubu-omegastrikers-omega-strikers-rasmus-glumbus-gif-13121322104728413224

[opaque coyote]

They either win lr die to the B A L L

[rose thorn]

heres the game tha inspired me

(this is how i wokr through my issues)

[opaque coyote]

Same

[outer wave]

I'm kinda in a sumo phase right now, so I'm gonna suggest Sumo, but more violent so as long as you dont kill the opponent and you push them out of the ring

[rose thorn]

ooo good point

[opaque coyote]

Japanese TV is fucking wild

[rose thorn]

ill 100% note that

[outer wave]

Fuck yeah

Sumo is great!

[opaque coyote]

Saw like one show and they had more effects than your average brain rot tik tok

[rose thorn]

throwing people off the stage is pretty funny

a team sport, wiht some kind of object, that encourages but isnt entrely dependent on violence

[outer wave]

Haven't seen a reality TV show from Japan, but I imagine its very busy VFX wise

[opaque coyote]

...

The stage has water with sharks at the bottom.

No reason for me suggesting that. It just would be funny.

Actually

Since it's sci-fi

ALIEN SHARKS

[rose thorn]

would violent basketball work?

[opaque coyote]

(it's just sharks but glorp)

[opaque coyote]

Eh, basketball has like the least chance of getting injured tbh

[rose thorn]

basketball with a sword

[outer wave]

What, you dunk the ball on someone's head as an attempt to get them off you?

[opaque coyote]

Out of the three most popular sports

[rose thorn]

yeah so gut punching someone is rpetty funny

[opaque coyote]

I would argue it's legit the most team based sport

Even out of the three

[rose thorn]

yeah

it doesnt have a goalie, i believe, so osmoene isnt sent to the shadowrealm of spending 3 turns waiting

giving the players bats and swords and shit is funny

[opaque coyote]

Could be interesting if it's a rule.

Like they have an opportunity to disable the greatest player.

A one use bat

[rose thorn]

no i mean, you can beat teh shit out fo each other

[opaque coyote]

Yeah ik

[rose thorn]

lmao

[opaque coyote]

Why do you think I said disable

[rose thorn]

lmao

i believe basketball has the most unique player count right?

isnt it 2, 3, 5, 6?

[opaque coyote]

Basically, potential items get thrown in and now a player has a bat that can be used to fucking smack the other player

A powerful bat but it's one use only

[rose thorn]

i was thinking the players brought in their own equipment, you balance out playing with going to teh store, talking to the press, winding down

the only way to heal is relaxing in your free itme

[opaque coyote]

NBA has 10 players total with 5 on each team

[rose thorn]

gotcha

i know basketball 2s and 3s ar ea thing, i have no clue if 4s are though in any professional capacity

[opaque coyote]

With rosters limited to 15 players total per regular season

[rose thorn]

i wonder if there is any of thise spin off games that is basically teh same thign with unqiue rules

like that irsh soccer game

where you can hold teh ball

[opaque coyote]

I don't play much if any sports

I know Rocket League is basically soccer but with Cars (obviously a video game but still)

[outer wave]

Croquet/British Paddleball but the ball is an explosive

[opaque coyote]

Quite fun

[rose thorn]

OOOOOO AMAZING POINT

[opaque coyote]

Everything is better with explosives

Except well... Your body

[rose thorn]

Having multiple spots tos core to win

so you need to score like, left, right, and center to win

so getting bum rushed instantly end in you losing

[outer wave]

Could also work with baseball

[rose thorn]

baseball doesnt really work with the tabletop rpg thign is my worry

[outer wave]

Then dont worry about it

Don't use that idea

[rose thorn]

as mucha s i liek baseball cry

[outer wave]

Hrm, would kid games like that one with the bouncy ball and the plastic cauldrop things work as a sport?

Just make it dangerous somehow

[rose thorn]

OMG WIAT WAHT ABOUT UH

teatherball

team game teatherball with violence

[winter vessel]

my school yard tether ball rope was so short.

[outer wave]

Pickleball but the elderly kill you

[rose thorn]

i dontk now hwo to win teatherball

[rose thorn]

LMAO

[winter vessel]

you are the pickleball. When clock strikes midnight, the elderly from the resdential homes come out to play, with barbed rackets

[outer wave]

They throw poisoned pickles at you to make the game more interesting

[outer wave]

Now that's terrifying and awesome

[rose thorn]

a sport

players on both teams could make physical contact
are on the same court
has some kind of score

[outer wave]

Tennis

But I tomahawk the racket at you and you die

[winter vessel]

the tennis ball is actually a hand grenade that they've applied buoyant material to make sure it can bounce. Player who serves first has to pull the pin.

[rose thorn]

with using basket ball as a base i dont have to do ball math...

and that gives players 2 states, dribbling and not dribbling

[opaque coyote]

Bouncy Gel Grenades from Terraria

[outer wave]

Bouncing Betty Hot Tomato

[dapper gyro]

The way the SM holding the heavy bolter is the worst possible way to reduce recoil.

Why don't they learn one thing or two from the orgryn on how to hold high recoil weapons...

[opaque coyote]

So fun fact. Garth Ennis did the whole "I portrayed myself as the Chad and you're the wojak."

But instead he portrayed himself as the wojak and comic haters as the Shakespearean Chad.

Honestly... Can't help but slightly respect that

Ennis is a weird guy

[queen laurel]

WHAT

HELL YEAH

[open pumice]

Being in one tonne of armor that automatically makes aiming micro adjustments for you makes adjusting for recoil fairly meaningless

Why they hold it that way probably has something to do with a combination of big ass shoulder pads limiting movement and nobody at GW knows how guns work

[dapper gyro]

Explain why normal human portable ones are also like that...

[open pumice]

GW doesn't know how guns work?

[dapper gyro]

Also, people usually wrongly assume that heavier = more control because of recoil absorption.

[open pumice]

Observe above image

[open pumice]

I mean if I wanted to make a lore reason:
Bolter patterns are relics designed explicitly for astartes, scaling them for humans was never really a thought out portion of the design and, given the admechs general reluctance to change designs, they probably just didn't care to do so.

There's also only so much recoil reduction you can actually do to a bolter. it can be as ergonomic as you want but at the end of the day the difference likely doesn't actually matter

[arctic talon]

tbh

heavy bolters are like

weird lol

there's so many odd designs for them in older editions

not that its bad

[dapper gyro]

Then why Orgryn has grip sideway, which make more sense?

[open pumice]

But the real answer is:
Nobody at GW knows how guns work, they themselves have admitted this multiple times

[open pumice]

It's not a bolter?

[arctic talon]

its a heavy stubber yeah

It was also modified for ogryn usage likely

or a pattern for ogryns

the tallarn heavy bolter is so funny

BIG mag

[dapper gyro]

Ripper gun is about as strong if not for the buck shot, and heavy stubber has the firerate, which also a factor for recoil regeneration as much as cartridge power.

[arctic talon]

GW didn't really lock in on a heavy bolter design till 4e/5e

[open pumice]

It's not a bolter

The answer to why it's designed differently is that it's not a bolter

[dapper gyro]

You are good.

[open pumice]

"Why do bolter ergonomics suck"
Because the things they were made for don't care about ergonomics, and when they were downscaled for humans the admech changed as little of the design as possible

[dapper gyro]

Very good.

[arctic talon]

my favorite heavy bolter design is prolly Harkers tbh

[dapper gyro]

Marines can use the same side grip. But yeah, it is a bolter.

[arctic talon]

what about the one in Sm2

[open pumice]

Look at where the breach is

[arctic talon]

oh

lmao

in any case idrc that much

40k is very much space fantasy

[open pumice]

You mean my setting with space dracula if he was also Merlin isn't 100% realistic?

[arctic talon]

unfortunately no

lol

[open pumice]

How could this beeee

[arctic talon]

this might be the worst heavy weapons upgrade to ever grace 40k

replacing a hotshot lasgun with a heavy stubber

goes fucking crazy lol

[open pumice]

In older eds it was like

[dapper gyro]

It is a Krieg, of course.

[open pumice]

Actually useful

Because the heavy stubbers shot more than the hotshot las

[arctic talon]

nah

heavy stubbers still sucked

[open pumice]

But like
Why you would take that over a plasma gun is beyond me

[arctic talon]

even back in 5e and 7e

they still shoot more now

Heavy stubbers have the curse of bolter now and forever

which is its profile is absurdly mediocre

[open pumice]

Yeah but hotshot AP is actually relavent nowadays

[arctic talon]

ye

well it was relevant back then

Ap3

[dapper gyro]

Though, this doesn't look like heavy stubber...

[arctic talon]

it is the krieg heavy stubbers just look like that

which is funny

[open pumice]

I thought it was ap4?

[arctic talon]

nah

[dapper gyro]

So like the BAR in the role of LMG...

[arctic talon]

it was Ap3 in 7e

[dapper gyro]

Lol, that magazine size.

[arctic talon]

which was terrorist behavior from GW

It may be lower AP pre 7e

actually

but it was def AP3 in 7e

[open pumice]

Huh yeah

They were

[open pumice]

Yeah

[arctic talon]

god the old ogryn ripper guns were cool

[open pumice]

7e was a mess lmao

[arctic talon]

I like the new ones a ton

but the old ones were also cool

[arctic talon]

Powercreep the edition

9e aint got shit on 7e

[open pumice]

9e's power creep is way over stated IMO

[dapper gyro]

GW kind of shit the bed every 2 edition.

[arctic talon]

people are too babied by modern GW balancing/hj

BACK IN MY DAY WE HAD TO DEAL WITH FULL POWER YNNARI

AND WE LIKED IT(we did not)

[open pumice]

Codex: daemon hunters

[arctic talon]

Me when I watch my opponent roll up with over 1k points of free las cannon razorbacks

💀

what an edition you were 7e

[arctic talon]

CSM codex 3.5e

is also fucking infamous

turns out there is such a thing as too much fluff in crunch

and that was the codex LOL

[open pumice]

HH 3.0 is inheriting that problem

[arctic talon]

HH 3.0 is also just

awfully balanced

like not even for narrative

its just bad lol

[open pumice]

custodes

[arctic talon]

Seekers costing the same points as recon squads but having better guns

and abilities

????

thank you GW

very cool

[arctic talon]

lol, lmao

oh also fun fact, Thallax are fully uncapped on special weapons for mechanicum now

behold, 6 multi meltas in your face

turn 1

[open pumice]

Custodes already being cracked last edition, every marines army receiving major nerfs both in the generic units and legion specifics, and then custodes getting arguably better

[dapper gyro]

It still happens with the modern 40k with the number of SM units.

[open pumice]

Custodes score 2 points for every fcking unit they kill

[arctic talon]

not as much as Seekers lol

Seekers have a 3 shot S5 AP3 2 damage boltgun

For uh

reasons

also they have stealth + infilitrate

recon squads have stealth + infilitrate but are stuck with snipers that have 1 shot and are S4 lol, but at least the pin

man, last melta minis ever produced by GW and they look damn good lol

[open pumice]

I'm happy to see they let other armies actually play the eddition

[arctic talon]

vostroyans are so pretty

[open pumice]

My main complaint with 2.0 was only marines were actually playing 2.0, everyone else was playing 1.0

[arctic talon]

2.0 was marines all the way down

3.0 is uh

[open pumice]

But 3e is just

A massive dumpster fire

[arctic talon]

but at least everyone is on an even playing field

I guess

(no they aren't)

if 2e was loyalist bias rules wise, 3e is def traitor bias lol

[open pumice]

I still can't actually play my custodes because I'll lose friends

[arctic talon]

your friend should suck it up and endure the torment nexus

just like I did/j

[open pumice]

"What does your army do?"
"beats yours"

[arctic talon]

"be better"

[dapper gyro]

"Lore accurate"

[arctic talon]

you know what I joke about Custodes being the army that says I do everything better

I did not literally want that GW

[open pumice]

"Don't you have to play the objective?"
"I outscore you by just killing you"

[arctic talon]

I don't think anyone wants their army to be "I am just better"

[open pumice]

It's not even lore accurate lmao they are arguably better than they are in the lore

[arctic talon]

Their pricing is wack as fuck as well

[open pumice]

One custodes can casually mulch 20 marines

[arctic talon]

On average a custodian with shield

won't die to like

40 marines with plasma rn

which is partially because plasma got its knees bashed in

but I don't think that should even happen

because I think they can statistically eat a demolisher shot and shrug it off rn

[open pumice]

No?
They only have a 5+ invuln

[arctic talon]

heresy

not 40k

[open pumice]

Yes

In heresy

Shield custodes have a 5+ invuln

Normal custodes a 6+

It's a 2+/5+

[arctic talon]

it also gives the shield trait

no?

which is a +1 toughness

wait nvm

my math is dumb

I need sleep

ffs

[open pumice]

The shield trait doesn't do anything unless you use the advanced reaction

Which is frankly not worth against 2/3rds of things

[arctic talon]

there's a unit with a shield in 30k rn that can eat a demolisher cannon shot

I forgot which one

it might be secutarii

actually

I think my brain crossed wires on the 2

[open pumice]

It happens

[open pumice]

Balance

[arctic talon]

truly

the new titan rules are cool in Heresy

[open pumice]

Yeah

[arctic talon]

therfore they should add them to 40k

[open pumice]

Too bad nobody can play titans

[arctic talon]

because I want to see the two people at my LGS who own a titan use them

which are a warhound and the smaller eldar one

[open pumice]

I've seen them once in an apoc list

[arctic talon]

Titans have unfortunately been consistently awful in 40k lol

[open pumice]

My local titan guy has a warlord and a printed imperator
The gun is as long as my forearm

[arctic talon]

heresy fixed it by uh, cutting its prices

and making them better

[open pumice]

Yeah they're kinda always gonna be

[arctic talon]

God imperators would be so funny

I want a Imperator in titanicus scale

at the very least

[open pumice]

Titans only make sense in titan engagements

And if your going to play a titan engagement

You just play titanicus

[arctic talon]

I want 40k titanicus

I want eldar, Ork and nid titan rules

also Tau

but Tau only have one titan(lame)

and GW is prolly never making another fullscale titan again lol

[open pumice]

They probably sell.like
20 of each, annually

[arctic talon]

but Titanicus could be a chance to see more

[arctic talon]

honestly 20 warlords generous lol

[open pumice]

LI killed any hope of seeing 40k titanicus

[arctic talon]

yeah

and I hate LI

[open pumice]

Botched ass system

[arctic talon]

titanicus is such a good system

[open pumice]

I like it's gameplay

[arctic talon]

shame it wasn't popular

[open pumice]

But it's so mishandled

[arctic talon]

LI is kind of the abused step child

of the sidegames rn

[open pumice]

It's not tho it gets so much attention

[arctic talon]

well

[open pumice]

It's just all the wrong attention

[arctic talon]

yeah

thats a good point

[open pumice]

The issue with LI is they keep pushing out stuff no one wants

And by the time they got to the stuff people actually want to buy

The game was dead

That and buying units for LI sucks

[arctic talon]

is it actually dead?

[open pumice]

Not quite but it's genuinely hard to find players

[arctic talon]

rip

[open pumice]

I know of maybe 4 games in my state a month, usually by the same 3 people playing each other

[open pumice]

Having to buy all of this shit for some rapier batteries turned me off of LI entirely

[arctic talon]

wait

they're all bundled?

[open pumice]

Just sell me 16 assault plates I don't want the dreadnaughts

[arctic talon]

bruh

[open pumice]

Yes

[arctic talon]

awful system of selling stuff

[open pumice]

The vehicles tend to come separately

But infantry and such are bundled in stupid ways

Like if they did a command bundle with a bunch of command units

Or assault units with 50/50 despoilers and assaults

It would be fine

[arctic talon]

yeah but the bundles aren't even themed

[open pumice]

But no

[arctic talon]

which is weird

[open pumice]

Tacs, command, terminators, assaults, and dreads

[arctic talon]

it feels like literal random stuff shoved together

[open pumice]

What the fuck am I supposed to do with that

Anyway since LI is undoubtedly a financial disappointment

It's never coming to 40k

[arctic talon]

also bundling tarantulas

is uh

a choice

[arctic talon]

ngl I just want titanicus in 40k

or for them to finish aeronatuica

[open pumice]

This is what all the bundles should have been

[arctic talon]

See

thats a great bundle

[open pumice]

Don't forget
They killed off aeronatica for LI

[arctic talon]

Yeah

And I HATE IT

SO MUCH

Aeronautica was such a cool system

actually let me have the planes I like

[open pumice]

Actually good dogfight system (real)

Fuck you starwars

[arctic talon]

God

why tf did they gut the uh

what was their plane game called

[open pumice]

GW
Bring back battle fleet gothic
I beg

[open pumice]

X wing?

[arctic talon]

the tabletop one yeah

all I know is X-wing 2e like

imploded the fucking game

[arctic talon]

there's rumors for its return, but you're not gona like the disclaimer

[open pumice]

Y e a h

[arctic talon]

[open pumice]

They handed development to a new team

[open pumice]

I like heresy so IDC

[arctic talon]

okay fair

[open pumice]

Marine on marine violence is peak

[arctic talon]

but I think BFG really lives or dies by the other fleets

imo

[open pumice]

But it is unfortunate I can't explode tyranids with my baals

[arctic talon]

ig Imperial Navy, Chaos ships and Marine ships is good enough

lol

Though they aren't chaos ships yet

[open pumice]

If BFG does well it might come to 40k

Currently they're using HH to house all the dubiously popular systems

Cause 40k kinda pays for HH, so long as HH turns a profit

And as much as I hate to admit

BFG was never super mainstream popular

[arctic talon]

the games have helped with its popularity recently

I feel

lol

as in the video game

[open pumice]

I hope

I pray

I really hope they do the legion flag ships

Give me a red tear gw please

[queen laurel]

oh yeah wolf have you watched the marvel fighting souls beginner guide

was it as degenerate as you thought

[arctic talon]

yeah

and yes

its degenerate as fuck lol

this game is gona be god awful(affectionate)

[queen laurel]

i can't wait to see doom mains aura farm

[arctic talon]

the only thing I dislike is the shared HP bar

the game takes a bunch of inspiration from granblue fantasy versus rising input wise

[queen laurel]

it really also forces you to actually master the skills by using manual inputs instead of the easy one for extra bit of damage

[arctic talon]

ye

thats what they did for granblue fantasy

can't wait to see someone get all 4 characters caught in a combo lol

[queen laurel]

Yeah from what I just saw it's about to be screen clutter city

[arctic talon]

no terminlogy for it

yet

But happy birthday and merry christmas are already funny terms for 2 and 3 characters caught in a combo

[arctic talon]

me when tag fighter

doesn't help arcsys is developing it and they love aura and hype moments

vfx

[queen laurel]

call it the fantastic foursome

[arctic talon]

death

in any case the other 2 arcsys tag fighters also were visual vomit

lol

both DBFZ and Blazblue Crosstag had so much on screen

[queen laurel]

yeah it seems their specialty is fighting games that are off the rails

[arctic talon]

well yeah

they invented anime fighters

tag fighters are just the horrific child of them

[queen laurel]

yeah still though i can't wait for them to add more characters

[arctic talon]

ngl

when I saw starlord

I thought it was fucking Dante from DMC

[queen laurel]

they went with this guy for a ghost rider too

robbie reyes owner of the mighty hell charger

[arctic talon]

anyways Arcsys's most deranged character design gameplay wise(imo) is avatar belial

whos specials eat his HP bar

but

he can combo any of his moves into anything

per special

also almost everything is + on block, he has an unblockable and a dodge punish

because of course he does

also a parry

funny ass character, completely degenerate design pattern

is also in one of their slower games so he turns rounds he's in into an absolute shitshow

anyways they should add someone like avatar belial to Tokon

because I think it would be very funny

[queen laurel]

so this guy is to go home or go big character huh

[arctic talon]

Well yeah

his combos are forced to drop

after a duration

oh also he can't kill himself with his moves(disapointing I know)

but he might as well have glass bones and paper skin lol

[queen laurel]

he's a rush down i'm guessing?

[arctic talon]

Yes

but he has a fullscreen laser

lol

btw he has a practical 100 to 0 combo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL5HlADDQfM

do not let him put you in the corner

[queen laurel]

Holy shit

You are not kidding he is genuinely draining through that health bar

[arctic talon]

before you ask if he's good(no)

he's like bottom 5 lol

which is absolutely intentional

[queen laurel]

i mean to be fair a character that uses health as a resource in a fighting game is well

[arctic talon]

bad

[queen laurel]

he's not mundo from league of legends

[arctic talon]

healing isn't a thing in fighting games(mostly)

and if healing exists its bad

[queen laurel]

one time it terrorised people i heard

[arctic talon]

my GOAT

they made her healing bad in every game after third strike

lol

still enough for it to be obnoxious though

the fact they hid it in her SF6 trailer at the very end like its some horror movie monster is the funniest shit ever

[queen laurel]

to be fair the devs know what they are doing

[arctic talon]

oh they do

[queen laurel]

the sagat trailer was pretty peak

[arctic talon]

sagat is cool as hell in 6

[queen laurel]

Tiger spammer the goat

[arctic talon]

they made him less spammy in 6 lol

low tigershot has less options

[queen laurel]

to be honest SF 6 is genuinely some of the coolest the character has looked

Even this guy they made a cool boxer

[arctic talon]

ngl the only thing I wish they kept

was his old eyepatch

on his new costume

[queen laurel]

OK even though his previous look was absolutely funny

[arctic talon]

the black eyepatch really popped

[arctic talon]

German character, looks inside Literal nazi uniform

what did Capcom mean by this

[queen laurel]

Dee Jay too

they went out of their way to improve characters looks

[arctic talon]

Dee Jay is great in Sf6

he's so much better

his win animation is also cool as hell

where he writes on the camera lol

[queen laurel]

akuma though

[dapper gyro]

I want so original character from 4 and 5 back.

[arctic talon]

Akuma in 5 is sick lol

Him looking like Oni is a cool idea

also funny as shit he's like a cryptid for his walk out

the camera is all fucky and glitches out

[dapper gyro]

I like Gouki in 6.

[arctic talon]

and he just suddenly appears lol

[hexed trail]

I find it funny how the tau considered emperor class titans a waste of materials from their prospective but the thing is the imperium/admech essentially have infinite raw resources to make whatever they want even an unstoppable war machine

[arctic talon]

tbf it is stupid

the imperium is however

stupid

[arctic talon]

I want some more thirdstrike characters tbh

SF6 is the first game set post thirdstrike

which feels deranged to say

[arctic talon]

bros a goddamn cryptid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrTuKT7dqw4

[dapper gyro]

Only 4 > 5 is chronological, right?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

The timeline is Sf1(lmao) -> SF2 -> SF4 -> SF5 -> SF3 -> SF6

Akuma canonically being a fruit merchant is also the funniest shit ever

[dapper gyro]

I like Bison, but I don't like that he is back in SF6.

I do understand the iconic of his appearance though.

[hexed trail]

How if you can make something so big that the enemy needs city busters to kill it I would say it's a net positive

[queen laurel]

That's just fighting game syndrome though

[arctic talon]

yeah I don't like him being back either

[queen laurel]

No character can truly die because we need them for the next game for the people that love to play him

[arctic talon]

I do like him being a new character

story wise

but like cmon

its a bison clone that never got the full memories of bison transfered in

[dapper gyro]

Same with Heihachi in Tekken 8.

[arctic talon]

but still

[dapper gyro]

It is fucking stupid.

[hexed trail]

The grandfather just saying fuck you I ain't dead

[arctic talon]

would have been nice if it was just someone with the same kit as bison

but uh

another bison clone ig

[dapper gyro]

Tekken 8 is a fucking Dragonball game.

Talking of clone, female seth was so out of no where.

[queen laurel]

Didn't they dead ass add the Final Fantasy character

[arctic talon]

I do think its interesting how in SF6 Bison is trying to reject psycho power

to an extent

or his body is rejecting it

[dapper gyro]

They do that all the time.

[arctic talon]

this is the only time I've ever been remotely interested in Bison

ngl

[dapper gyro]

Tekken 7 has Noctis from FF15.

[arctic talon]

we see some wisps of soul energy when he does his moves + his hand fucking explodes into psycho power before turning into soul energy for one of his low HP win animations

[hexed trail]

Tekken kinda started as a more grounded combat game compared to the competition but with every entry the Devs smoked a bit more crack and went with whatever they thought up during that high

[arctic talon]

tbf Tekken was never more grounded lol

fucking Electric Wind Godfist was a thing in the first one

[dapper gyro]

It is no Virtua Fighter.

Nina uses "Assassination technics" with half of her kit changes every game.

Also Panda and Bear...

[arctic talon]

Tekken 2 was when they really went batshit insane lol

but Tekken 1 already had some absurd stuff in it

[dapper gyro]

And Kangaroo...

[arctic talon]

for batshit insane stuff in Tekken 1, yoshimitsu, mishimas(in general), Kuma

[arctic talon]

the dinosaur

lol

[dapper gyro]

Gon

[hexed trail]

Anyways most of the classic combat games are getting to the peak bullshit level, really stupid gameplay choices and over monetisation that the only logical thing nowadays is either a reset, let the franchise rest in peace and start a new or keep going until you crash and burn

[dapper gyro]

I read Gon comic long before I know of Tekken.

[arctic talon]

none of the popular fighting game series have ever been sane combat lol

as for gameplay

I think the modern big 3 they're all fine

mostly

[hexed trail]

Didn't say that

[arctic talon]

Mk1 was a shitshow but stabilized

Tekken 8 is fine

SF6 is also fine

[dapper gyro]

Lol, they make money and people enjoy it.

[arctic talon]

tekken 8 had one patch that was a total disaster

but thats it

[hexed trail]

When I said bullshit I meant like story and power scaling

[arctic talon]

as for monetization skins are annoying

but I'd rather modern fighting game monetization

then old fighting game monetization

hey kids which version of SF2 do you wana buy

they're all full price btw

[dapper gyro]

If they do another SF3 thing, Capcom can burn.

[arctic talon]

SF3 being 3 seperate games

[dapper gyro]

SF3 has SF3 > 2nd Impact > 3rd Strike.

[arctic talon]

was derranged

SF2 was worse

[hexed trail]

MK 11 had a great cosmetics and customisation

[arctic talon]

but SF3 was like

in the era where that was no longer acceptable

lol

[hexed trail]

Then MK 1 was just trash with customisation

[dapper gyro]

SF3 is 3 different games, balance and characters...

[arctic talon]

I'm ngl I literally do not give a shit about cosmetics in fighting games mostly

they add nothing

[dapper gyro]

SF5 almost fall in the same pit after SF4.

But they saved it.

[arctic talon]

god SF5's launch

was so ass

base roster of 16 characters

[dapper gyro]

Gameplay almost 1 to 1 to SF4.

[arctic talon]

and almost all of them were from SF2

[dapper gyro]

Balance was ass.

[arctic talon]

also the artstyle was ugly

[dapper gyro]

I like the art style.

[arctic talon]

ykw

fair

I do think they settled on the best design for Ed out of all the concepts

tbh

for SF6

that applies to a lot of the returning characters redesigns

[dapper gyro]

Many of the costumes in SF5 I think looks cooler than 6.

[storm jungle]

[arctic talon]

tbh I disagree on that but I get why

there's a lot of weird design ideas for SF6 bison

which was neat

[dapper gyro]

I think it has to do with my preferring SF5 art style.

[arctic talon]

Likely

SF5's artstyle is really vibrant

I like the more muted colors of 6 and 4 for the 3d games ngl

[storm jungle]

At least no female concepts here, with his weird ass body-swap contingency

(only Seth gets that privelage)

[dapper gyro]

Cammy was supposed to be his body at some point, wasn't she?

[arctic talon]

there is, the far left one and biggest one is a woman

[arctic talon]

yeah all the Dolls were potential replacement bodies