40k-lore-chat

[arctic talon]

and she got killed

now granted she did lay eggs

do not ask how that works

[humble shoal]

Like a platypus

[astral burrow]

Rogue trader group shorngoes hard

Shot*

But where is the tech priest

[humble shoal]

Pacal best girl

[arctic talon]

he wasn't revealed yet when they made the art

lol

[astral burrow]

Is the noble at the top near cassia

[arctic talon]

Pasqual was one of the last companions

[astral burrow]

Supposed to be the rogue trader

[arctic talon]

yeah its the generic noble RT

[astral burrow]

Then yeah it is just a full party

Iridia isn't there either

Argenta looks great tho

But I like the pariah nexus sister more

[young pecan]

My OC widewawwy can kill awl types of units and can cast spells and and has a SOUL SDWORD and can widewawwy heal infinitely and is immune to evewything

[distant marsh]

Greetings what is the standar weapon to go alongisde the bolter?

[young pecan]

My OC also NEVEW loses leadership even when he is the last unit standing vs. twenty units

[young pecan]

What class?

Assuming you mean on Darktide

[arctic talon]

if you mean in lore for a marine its a combat knife or chainsword

[distant marsh]

Like lorewise, what would be the standar to use, like folk who wear some heavy stuff around

[arctic talon]

for a guardsmen is a combat knife unless they're an officer

[arctic talon]

in which that case powersword/chainsword

guardsmen usually only have combat knifes

as a melee weapon

or a bayonet/knife hybrid

[humble shoal]

Or entrenching tool in a bad situation

[arctic talon]

yeah

[distant marsh]

Nice, been using dueling sword but feels off, I'm running around with a toothpick while wearing this heavy ass armor

[young pecan]

Heavy on "in a bad situation"

[arctic talon]

makeshift clubs

ect.

Actual solid trench clubs are used by some regiments

[young pecan]

Not even Kriegers intentionally enter a fight with a shovel

[arctic talon]

read: krieg and those ones from Only war I forgot the name of

[arctic talon]

tbh it fits if they're an officer

lol

or you want them to have been an officer

otherwise CHAINSWORD

[young pecan]

It's a toothpick that hits like a semi truck if that helps

[arctic talon]

NOTHING BEATS THE GOOD OLD STANDARD ISSUE MILITARUM CHAINSWORD

[humble shoal]

Chainsword is for the melee specialist

[arctic talon]

sgts have it often

tbh

[humble shoal]

Or officer with pistol

[distant marsh]

Yeah it's strong but for the sake of the theme

[arctic talon]

chainsword + laspistol

[astral burrow]

Who uses chain axe?

[humble shoal]

That is the melee specialist

[distant marsh]

Not me

[humble shoal]

Khornate filth

[young pecan]

Bolter is cool because it kills almost everything so you can use whatever melee

Just like, don't use it on trash shooters unless you gotta

[humble shoal]

But tbh think its used in astra militarum

[arctic talon]

Marines and CSM mostly

[astral burrow]

Csm?

[humble shoal]

You cannot stop me from magdumping into a horde

[arctic talon]

Chaos space marines

[astral burrow]

Ah

[arctic talon]

oh also the ecclisarchy

lol

[young pecan]

It is a fun treat every now and then

[arctic talon]

but not sisters of battle

chain axes are bad for PR

is the big thing

[young pecan]

Once a match I get to waste 15 bullets for morale

[humble shoal]

Specifixally of the khornate variety of csm

[arctic talon]

yeah

the association is big

[humble shoal]

Becausw it helps the blood flow

Imagine if vet gets a power scythe

[arctic talon]

but for chapters who really like chain axes

[distant marsh]

Wish there was a skin that makes the blade a little bit thicker feels off as sin

[arctic talon]

Fleshtearers, Space wolves, executioners, carcharadons

though space wolves in general prefer power weapons

oh also the guard does use chain axes sometimes

in only war there was a relic tier chain axe

[humble shoal]

Yeah ie moebian 6th

[arctic talon]

yeah

[humble shoal]

Calligos uses a chainaxe

But then again

[arctic talon]

Calligos wasn't always that way tbf

but yeah

[humble shoal]

He aint beating the allegations

[young pecan]

Flesh tearers eat flesh flesh eaters tear flesh

Still funny to me

[humble shoal]

Mortifactors but less embarrassed

[young pecan]

Also flesh eaters being loyalist

[arctic talon]

they're both loyalists

tbf

[humble shoal]

So are mortifactors

[arctic talon]

Flesh eaters just odn't cannibalize that much

lol

Flesh tearers cannibalize a lot

[humble shoal]

Arguably flesh tearers are closer to heretical

[young pecan]

Ohh it was that tearers were less good while eaters actively try not to cannibalize

I thought tearers were CSM

[humble shoal]

Nope thats what makes it funny

But I think mortifactors somehow has a worse rep than the flesh tearers

I blame guilliman

[arctic talon]

Mortifactors literally skin people alive

so

I'd assume that has something to do with it

lol

[humble shoal]

And that one time with the inquisitor

[young pecan]

I learned just now from the wiki page on Mortifactors that power scythes exist

[humble shoal]

Amd the fact that they wear human skulls over their helmets

[young pecan]

Scythes are not good weapons at all to my knowledge

[humble shoal]

Yeah death guard

[young pecan]

Wonder if it having power field or whatever changes that

[humble shoal]

Death guard doesnt care about effectiveness

[arctic talon]

well

its still a scythe

its unweildy

[young pecan]

Yeah

[arctic talon]

on the upside

[humble shoal]

And not a warscythe

[arctic talon]

marines can literally reap humans

like wheat

[young pecan]

What greatswords stereotypically are, scythes actually are

[arctic talon]

so its slightly more effective

lol

[young pecan]

Minus the effective part

[arctic talon]

but the whole

cutting through stuff badly isn't an issue

because powerfield

[humble shoal]

I mean scythes were typaclly converted into polearms

[arctic talon]

yeah

[young pecan]

First guy to ever try using a scythe vs. a spear

Man I hate that spears are one of if not the best melee weapons IRL

BORING

[humble shoal]

War scythes were a thing

[arctic talon]

spears are cool

smh

[arctic talon]

the executioner is fucking peak

I love impaling terminators like fish

[humble shoal]

Halberds are cool

[arctic talon]

yeah

[humble shoal]

Pikes are weak sauce

[young pecan]

Maybe I'm uneducated or unappreciative but poke poke poke doesn't seem cool to me personally

[humble shoal]

Give me a testudo

[arctic talon]

slashing + poking cool

[humble shoal]

Spears could be like 20 feet

[arctic talon]

also I like glaives more then actual spears tbh

since you can both slash and stab

[young pecan]

Now glaives I respect

[humble shoal]

My stance though

[arctic talon]

but polearms in general are cool to me

I enjoy the brutal simplicty of them

its a fucking stick you stab someone with

[humble shoal]

I preferred the roman gladius/javelin/shield thing

[young pecan]

Also doubling back for a sec, the Souls franchise has probably done THE MOST damage to public knowledge on how greatswords actually work

[humble shoal]

Facts

But then again most weapons in souls are done horribly

[arctic talon]

they're actually extremely slow and clunky 💀

or something

idfk

they're like pretty fucking fast irl

lol

[young pecan]

Yeah

[humble shoal]

Zweihanders were hars to use

Thats why they got paid dpuble

[young pecan]

Slowly hefting my 200 pound piece of metal to slowly move into someone

[arctic talon]

tbh the only comically slow greatsword I don't mind

[young pecan]

As if that will do ANY damage

[arctic talon]

is the fucking monster hunter greatswords

lol

[humble shoal]

Mh greatswords are great

[arctic talon]

because they're all fucking comically huge

[young pecan]

I think that works because the hunters canonically are not human strength

So like strong beings using huge greatswords stereotypically, that's neat

[humble shoal]

Like clud

[plush mason]

where did you get that chest?

[humble shoal]

Or guts

[distant marsh]

New rotation at comodores, dropped yesterday

[plush mason]

sick

[distant marsh]

Indeed it is

[plush mason]

time to spend more money

[arctic talon]

me when comically large sword

[plush mason]

hunters in general are comical

[arctic talon]

I find it funny long swords and great swords were the same weapon class in MH1

[humble shoal]

Hammer is funny

[arctic talon]

I've also never played MH1

the oldest I've played is 2

[plush mason]

their metabolic burn rate is just insane

[arctic talon]

FOOD

[humble shoal]

Immune to fall damage in exchange

[plush mason]

yes

[arctic talon]

my hunter consuming 10,000 calories and then being hungry within 30 minutes

[humble shoal]

Tbf wouldnt you

Swinging that sword

[arctic talon]

honestly if I did the shit they do yeah

[plush mason]

ofc they would only live to like 25 at most with the burn rate they need to use thier weapons

[arctic talon]

Just the ammount of running + jumping + carrying all the stuff around

[arctic talon]

tbf this is fantasy land where humans are evolutionarily related to dragons if you go back far enough

[plush mason]

yup

[arctic talon]

I wonder when humans and wyverians

diverged evolutionarily

because they 100% have a common ancestor

[young pecan]

So in MH Worlds the plot is kind of hunting your ancestors

Sort of

[arctic talon]

sorta? kind of?

the dragons that everything is decendent from went extinct

as far as researchers know

[opaque coyote]

I mean tbf the Crusaders have awesome looking armor

And I want to see them more. It would be fucking awesome to use one in a game

[plush mason]

elder dragons are the closest living decendants iirc

[young pecan]

So different kind of dragons vs. the ancestors humans came from?

[opaque coyote]

Also

So fun fact, in Death of Stalin (the movie) they actually toned down the amount of medals Zhukov wore. Because audiences would've found it too unbelievable

Here's the movie

...and here's a colored version of one of his photos

[arctic talon]

sorta yeah(?)

The Elder Dragons are evolutinarily the cloesest to the ancient dragons

they still have the whole "elder dragon blood" thing going on

which is why they're all catagorized together genetically

but they're also freaks of nature and weird

[nocturne crest]

I got a new question: Does the Sanguinor appear to help out successor chapters of the blood angels or is it only legion name chapter?

[arctic talon]

Sucessor chapters as well

[young pecan]

"C'mere step-grandpa I need a new pair of boots"

[arctic talon]

lol

I'm sure the more book inclined hunters

def say shit like that

as a joke

[nocturne crest]

I wonder if it's always the same armour colours or does it change depending upon successor

[young pecan]

My hunter? Reading? Not likely

[arctic talon]

same armor

but yeah I really liked the monsterhunter rise phylogenetic tree

even if it never got officially translated

Anyways someone made an absoutely monstrously big tree of life

which I will now post and crash the discord servers with/j

[sour hornet]

So Arbites are Schola graduates alongside Stormtroopers, Sororitas and Commissars correct?

[arctic talon]

Often yes

[sour hornet]

So in terms of riot quelling and civilian pacification, they're one of the best forces you can call upon for the task?

[dapper gyro]

Yes

However, the are the weakest in term of combat performance among the 3. Their actual job is mostly paper and office works.

[arctic talon]

the tree of life(compressed so discord doesn't kill me)

[dapper gyro]

Barely better than the guard, only better because of the equipment they get issued, too.

[sour hornet]

Well, the guard is infantry. Infantry is a multi-tool.

Arbites get boltguns and full carapace, and are only really deployed as a "federal police" role. Doesn't make them barely better than the guard. Set 10 v 10 in a blank room and the Arbitrators are taking that fight most of the time.

Set it in an open field 50 v 50, Guard will likely win. We see this play out with IRL SOF forces.

[dapper gyro]

The infantry is like 1/3 of the guards.

[sour hornet]

Yes, but "guys without anti-tank weapons" vs a tank is going to end in a loss.

[dapper gyro]

Eh, in a 50 v 50 open field of irl SOF vs Infantry... SOF wins...

[sour hornet]

Not really.

[dapper gyro]

Most of SOF were file and rank of the infantry.

[arctic talon]

Arbitrators are good at what they do

[humble shoal]

arbites are also shock troops

[dapper gyro]

You think SOF assaulter start as SOF?

[sour hornet]

SOF perform best when doing pre-planned ambushes and other light-infantry tasks. When faced up against infantry and forced to do infantry things, they take pretty severe casualties.

It's also why I discounted the Guards tanks. Any average SOF force will get rolled by a prepared armor force unless the armor moves severely incompetently.

[sour hornet]

Navy SEALs literally do.

[dapper gyro]

Which SF are you talking about? Here in the CAF, 80% of the assaulters are experienced infantry.

It is not "only work best at", they are already the best at doing what the normal troops can do.

[sour hornet]

US, RU, UK.

[sour hornet]

No, they are not.

[dapper gyro]

Same for the US Marines, US Army, UK SAS/SBS, French Marine Commando.

Same for everyone.

[sour hornet]

They can do specific jobs very well for limited periods of time.

[dapper gyro]

You don't sign up to the military and expect to join the SF right the way. You need to have experience.

[sour hornet]

After which, line infantry becomes better at the task.

[sour hornet]

Once again, in the US this is literally the case.

[dapper gyro]

Also it depends on mission. Many SF mission takes months on end.

[sour hornet]

I literally know someone who applied to become Navy Seal camp right out of high-school.

[dapper gyro]

You say that they pre-planned right? Guess who provide the intels? Half of the time are themselves.

[sour hornet]

Okay? Armor units also have to conduct their own intelligence in the field, ask me how I know?

[dapper gyro]

And I have several people who taugh me and are now serving with the SFs.

[sour hornet]

Yes, and I've met quite a few in service.

My point is

Infantry and SOF are meant for two separate tasks and SOF can do infantry tasks, but it's a massive waste, because SOF aren't better at those tasks to a degree that is acceptable.

Like, you could swap out a marine unit for SOF on a standard open assault, but it would be dumb, and they would take severe casualties doing so.

[storm jungle]

Depends on the Arbites precinct-fortress strenght, the Kill-Team rulebook says some precints are armed to the point of fighting medium/small wars by themselves.

They are also special operatives to a degree so they can do more thinking than your average guardsmen regiment usually.

[dapper gyro]

Imperium propaganda

[sour hornet]

Okay, the answers I'm looking for.

[dapper gyro]

Im curious, since you are in the US, what do you think of the US Army Ranger?

[storm jungle]

The Soulshackle rulebook has very good info

Arbites are essentially just Spec Ops cops

some are more specialized than others obvs but they still got a ton of shit

[dapper gyro]

Federal swat team

[sour hornet]

Cool people. Also typically wired as hell and subsist off of zyn and white monster cans.

I met a few and have done interoperability training once with them as a tanker.

There is a difference between patch ranger, and 75th RR "Ranger"

[dapper gyro]

To be fair, even in 2000AD, Judges are not that strong. Only Dredd who is an engineered clone of the very best judge can do those kind of shit.

[sour hornet]

scroll ranger

[storm jungle]

Yeah but thats Judges

[dapper gyro]

Not even the other clones can come close to him.

[storm jungle]

Arbites are like extremely strict and not as carefree

they will literally go toe-to-toe with Nids lol

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-eliud-gifs-warhammer-40k-combate-warhammer-40k-escudo-warhammer-40k-adeptus-arbites-gif-13756464845549076582

[dapper gyro]

Yeah, I saw that episode.

[sour hornet]

So current Tertium is kinda their bread and butter?

[dapper gyro]

However, it is because they get bigger than than average guards.

[storm jungle]

Pretty much the best they can ask for ye, planetery tithes/government is in disarray so hunting homeless people is freegame.

they are tactical gestapo but actually competent

[dapper gyro]

Like, their shotgun is pretty much a bolter at close range.

[storm jungle]

Yeah it hits like a truck

its a specialized variant too

[dapper gyro]

The Darktide trailer show them missed so many shots... fucking noobs.

It will be likely how the players play them...

[storm jungle]

[dapper gyro]

If the nids are human sized, they they would have much harder time.

[dapper gyro]

I mean the Ranger regiments. The ranger school is more or less the generic leadership course.

[arctic talon]

Current tertium is peak for them

wait

wrong reply

FUCK

shut up Hadron

[storm jungle]

💀

[dapper gyro]

Can you add a "No U" reply to Hadron bot?

[sour hornet]

Crazy insane people

[arctic talon]

anyways wtf were the arbites doing

until now lol

[sour hornet]

chill on the surface but they have a look in their eye akin to a blood-fueled golden retriever

[arctic talon]

were they just fighting on their own and not been linked up lol

[storm jungle]

Probably.

Also unrelated

I wheezed.

[sour hornet]

My biggest question lol

[dapper gyro]

How do they operate their mission?

[storm jungle]

Listening to old white dudes I assume

"Your purpose is to go die in the desert."

[sour hornet]

Depends on the mission, they're sometimes like a strange hybrid of SOF that does wonky shit I'm too irrelevant to be told.

[outer wave]

Question concerning cults: Most cults we see in hiveworlds are usually founded by people that know the true intentions of what the cult is ultimately is for, yeah? Has there ever been cults that were founded and suceeded by people that had only genuinely good intentions, and never knowing what the chaos gods are actually?

[arctic talon]

releveant

on dying in the desert as army

[sour hornet]

Don't genestealer cults hide often behind the front of being charities and such?

[arctic talon]

it depends wildly

[arctic talon]

Yes, there was actually a cult founded by Dire Avengers sector wide to prepare imperial worlds for chaos and tyranid invasion

the people running it never knew the true nature of who founded it

but it was a cult of charity

[sour hornet]

Those are delta guys, different tempo entirely.

[arctic talon]

I forgor

[sour hornet]

Delta gets to wear cool slacks

[storm jungle]

Yes but they can also just do about any insurgency/insurrectionist thing you can think of in a sci-fi scale.

If you want some funny af examples go read their "notable thingies" section in their wikipage.

[sour hornet]

They truly are pervasive pests

[outer wave]

Fascinating. I assume at the end, their purpose fails as daemons or Nids come and kill their followers?

[storm jungle]

Like theres some who sent out genestealers INSIDE GIANT MEAT DELIVERIES.

[arctic talon]

Nah they suceed

*succeed

They do get found out by imperial authorities

but at that point its too late

as theres literally nids invading

and the eldar who helped get the cult running in question are fighting alongside the cult

now granted its not a chaos cult

so maybe it doesn't like fit as well

[outer wave]

Oh, so this cult was a GSC cult then? Orr just a cult to their eldar gods?

[arctic talon]

It was a cult worshipping Asuremen

lol

aka the phoenix lord

they called him the "red hand"

or something

[storm jungle]

Yeah and it was actually well intentioned like Elite said lmao

[arctic talon]

yeah

[storm jungle]

really fascinating idea for the novel I loved it

[arctic talon]

the cult was allowed to stay around

post nid invasion

is the funniest fucking thing

imperial authorites just ended up shrugging their fucking shoulders

[outer wave]

So a cult that worshiped a prominent eldar figure, huh

[storm jungle]

Me when christianity-

[outer wave]

Wasnt expecting that

[arctic talon]

since all the cult did was train for war, feed people and give them medicine

and it was ultimately imperium aligned

[storm jungle]

^

[arctic talon]

they worshiped asuermen as like

some random ass

[storm jungle]

as long as you hide what your cult does properly nobody cares

[arctic talon]

"great angel of the emperor"

lol

[storm jungle]

like

look at the Mourningstar now

[arctic talon]

its why they went so long

[storm jungle]

theres skulls everywhere

[arctic talon]

without being discovered

[storm jungle]

and no one cares

they just go "its tradition/our religion"

lmao

[arctic talon]

Like "oh its just a crimson fist"

[storm jungle]

👊

[arctic talon]

the Red hand is an angel of the emperor

with a red hand and blue armor

[sour hornet]

This shit sent me when I first saw it

[arctic talon]

wait a minute why is he thin, ah well must be the poor people never seeing a statue of a marine

ect.

[outer wave]

I see I see

[arctic talon]

but yeah the whole cult is a facinating like, non chaos, non genestealer cult written

imo

there's a few other chaos cults that started benevolent

the one in Warhammer crime is either a genestealer or tzeentch cult

that started with benevolent ideas

but slowly twisted slightly

to the point everything is just slightly off in terms of vibes

[sour hornet]

Like, you want me to kill people and collect their dropped skulls... and stack them into a giant pile? Doesn't that seem a little...

[arctic talon]

now the founded knew nothing about it but yknow

Well the Imperium is a death cult lol

the 2 major ways the emperor is worshipped is as a god of death and god of war

[outer wave]

I wonder how long a cult like that could stay benevolent or cultists from said cult that leave to spread it elsewhere try and keep to the core philosophies of it rather than their true purposes

[arctic talon]

for the one in warhammer crime its still pretty small scale

so no clue

[storm jungle]

Non-Chaos cults in general is an extremely unexplored part of 40k imo.

Minus like some very very niche novels.

[arctic talon]

Yeah and I loved that book tbh

[storm jungle]

People dont take enough advantage of the fact that we humans will worship literally anything.

[outer wave]

I worship my friens :)

[storm jungle]

[dapper gyro]

Some place has their own saint and has to work their way for it to be sanctioned... or die.

[arctic talon]

yeah

[plush mason]

facts

hell sol Invictus is a literal space rock

that smashed into the ground near a village

[storm jungle]

Id say more but i dont wish to be a reddit atheist

[dapper gyro]

Time to worship Dilara

[arctic talon]

aren't you literally muslim

how can you be a reddit atheist

[dapper gyro]

Then do dumb shit behind her to take her down by a 3rd party.

[dapper gyro]

That's why de doesn't wish to be one.

Otherwise, she is a heretic over there.

(Though, it will align with my plan)

[storm jungle]

I mean yeah but not really

im not religious lmao

[arctic talon]

oh

non practicing

that makes sense

[storm jungle]

Yeah lmao

[tough haven]

I'm an omnist, so I'm like the opposite of a reddit atheist

[arctic talon]

whhat the fuck is an omnist

actually don't answer that

h

oh

[tough haven]

googled it?

[outer wave]

Believes in all gods?

[tough haven]

I believe in the existence or possible existence of all deities

[paper haven]

We angry about gods today?

[arctic talon]

Yes

[arctic talon]

No

Just yapping

[paper haven]

Cool, cool

[tough haven]

But I believe that they all exist, you choose which, if any you want to believe in or follow

For instance, not a christian guy

Or any deities that actively promote hate or harm, as in their worship revolves around it

not sure I know of any of those, but its just a principle

[arctic talon]

The religion I practice is weird

Lol

Or I guess my parents and grand parents practiced it

And now I do

[tough haven]

And just because I believe in or follow a deity doesnt mean I actively worship them, especially if there isnt much overlap with their domains and my life

[tough haven]

OOh tell me

[arctic talon]

Ancestor veneration

It’s a rabbithole and a half lol

[dapper gyro]

That's the most normal east Asian stuff ever.

Some SE and SEA, too.

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Still on the weirder side imo

[dapper gyro]

"I don't care of divinity, for my ancestors were true and protect me."

[arctic talon]

Compared to like the usual

[paper haven]

I'm the equivalent of being on unemployment but for religion.

[dapper gyro]

Don't worry, I know* the tomb of my last 10 or 12 generation...

[arctic talon]

I guess more accurate to say the religion I practice is Chinese folk religion(sorta)

[dapper gyro]

Chinese mythology, very similar to the other East Asians.

The root is surprisingly far from Buddhism, but Buddhism did get big influence everywhere there.

It is integrated, not overtaken.

[arctic talon]

I guess I also participate in Buddhist stuff now that I think about it

Lol

[arctic talon]

Yeah this

It’s weird in an interesting way

How they’ve integrated almost

[dapper gyro]

Yes, I live such life, too.

Journey to the West is a book series integrating the 2 myths, they clearly show the respect to both.

Though, on my side, the believe for ancestors is way more prevalent.

[arctic talon]

Same

I know it’s the opposite for some other people/families

[dapper gyro]

For we who know our people before us are no myth, as they were real and were there so we can be here today.

[tough haven]

Oh thats cool!

[tough haven]

Like idk when the last time I did anything with Poseidon

[late osprey]

faith, as in the belief in something without foolproof evidence, actually applies to just about every single thing we hold true

so id be more wary of someone who claims to not have faith in anything, as that means they either don't actually know what they're talking about, or they're an egoist (aka: psychotic)

[tough haven]

I think you mean sociopathic

psychotic is someone who isnt in touch with reality

[dapper gyro]

Even believe in science is still a belief.

[tough haven]

Faith in common humanity

[dapper gyro]

It is kind of what define sentient.

[storm jungle]

Religious people can be as bad as ones that dont believe in it.

[dapper gyro]

"I think, therefore I am."

[storm jungle]

Human beings can be scum in any echelon of anything really

theres no "theres worse ones in this particular bit"

[tough haven]

100%

[storm jungle]

[tough haven]

Yeah humans can take anything and twist it to an extreme beyond its original intent

[dapper gyro]

We all scum together!

[storm jungle]

^

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[tough haven]

Personally I'm not huge on organized anything, I think belief and faith are individual choices that we all have to make on our own, and its a choice that no one but ourselves should have say in

[storm jungle]

Its one of the reasons why I never really care about ethnicity/nationality in my life.

My countrymen are talking about how Kurds are bad while I go out to the street and see two Turks stealing some kid's bike with wirecutters.

lol

[tough haven]

Except of course in cases of harm

[tough haven]

People like a scapegoat

the idea that anyone can be a bad person because ???

[arctic talon]

They want an other

[tough haven]

is nebulous and scary

[arctic talon]

To blame

[tough haven]

and difficult to reckon with

[storm jungle]

Yeah anyone can be a bad person.

It doesnt really matter who or what they are lol

[tough haven]

so most people want to order everything into neat boxes because that makes them feel safe or content in their understanding of the world

"Oh, X people are bad, that makes sense"

[storm jungle]

Like I love my dad, hes legit a saint and a good person.

But the moment I mention gay people he becomes an absolute bigot lol

Im bisexual and if he knew this he'd instantly disown me.

And thats just one example lol

[tough haven]

The reality that the universe is a chaotic and wild place with few constants besides change and uncertainty is scary to people and thats understandable, the unknown is our oldest and greatest fear

but theres also a lot of positive within it, and opportunity

its two sides of the same coin

[tough haven]

Its about upbringing too

my dad is a very kind person, but he can be a little bigoted or offensive at times

he doesnt mean to be, and he tries to not be, which is what matters

[storm jungle]

Yeah no one is born an awful person.

They are molded into it

[tough haven]

Thats another truth that is difficult, people dont want to think that anyone can become a bad person at any time for any reason

They want to think people are good or bad, black and white thinking

[storm jungle]

Yeah unfortunately lol

theres a reason "kids are cruel" thing has become a meme

(even though its actually true)

[plush mason]

because its simple and easy

and we humans are programed to take the easiest most simple option

even when a better option is clearly on the table but requires more effort

[late osprey]

the point is exactly that

[storm jungle]

[late osprey]

the hardest pill for people to swallow is that ideology, philosophy, and religion are all more similar than not

[late osprey]

i dont actually mean either so literally so much as egoism is no reasonable way to build a society

after all, both of those are a mental illness while egoism is just the logical end of the line if you're afraid of having faith in anything

applied solipsism

[umbral kraken]

good times in lore chat

[late osprey]

tying this all back into lore, was the God Emperor the most colossal idiot in the whole setting?

[vagrant fox]

Thatd be Angron but it's close

[tough haven]

I mean they are, but that’s a whole different issue

[tough haven]

Yeah, pretty much

[tough haven]

And conversely, people can be good people at any time

And back and forth

[late osprey]

it's not exactly a dice roll, i believe it really has more to do with the norms in people's communities more than anything

especially vindicated the more you know how wacky diverse historical societies can really be

[arctic talon]

Regarding the imperial truth and being a Reddit atheist when gods are tangibly real? Yeah

The imperial truth was a lie in the first place

It was hypocritical at best and actively detrimental at its worst

[umbral kraken]

personally I believe people can be born awful because being awful, in our minds especially, is a highly modern ideal. being awful is perhaps just a form of human nature for many.

[arctic talon]

The imperial truth was so comically stupid in retrospect

[late osprey]

'awful' as in the exact array of traits we associate with awfulness, absolutely is a highly particular thing

[arctic talon]

Especially with the whole

Extermination of every religion thing

Ah yes let’s kill the benign local religion

Because they’re worshiping the sun

[umbral kraken]

idk what those are, there are many types of awful but many overlaps

[arctic talon]

[late osprey]

the emperor unironically living through WW2 and going "Yeah, ideology? That shit is awesome."

[arctic talon]

Like what the fuck

Was his idea for this

[late osprey]

i just mean like

for example in just the channel down in book club there was a list of why ArchWarhammer is terrible

[arctic talon]

No shit people are going to start praying even harder

[late osprey]

but like those aren't even human universals

[arctic talon]

And like

You know

Maybe something will answer

It’s just not what you want answering

[storm jungle]

"Malc I knew a guy back in the day, his name was Adolf, he had some great ideas but wasted them on this 3rd Reich thing, such a shame."

[arctic talon]

When they were just praying to the sun

[late osprey]

"Super Space Fascism will bring peace to the world, unlike those damn shaolin warrior monks." - Emperor sometime after 1940

[storm jungle]

[arctic talon]

It was fine

But now they’re praying to anyone

Oh boy

Man I wonder what happens now

[late osprey]

the emperor was really on some "mussolini had the trains run on time" copium

[storm jungle]

him and some people in this fandom honestly 💀

[late osprey]

fandomites be like "Actually, having a military balkanized between 20 generals so they don't threaten the Dictator is the perfect way to run it."

like breaking it up that way between people who all hate each other is LITERALLY

the dictator's playbook

[storm jungle]

"Uhm excuse me its not fascist its authoritarian 🤓 "

ok redditor 💀

[arctic talon]

I mean

[storm jungle]

no

[arctic talon]

There is a difference

[storm jungle]

[late osprey]

well if he calls it fascism he has to pay royalties to mussolini

[arctic talon]

Okay I’m done

Look

[late osprey]

so its authoritarian for legal purposes

[scenic bolt]

virgin EoM 'hitler had some good ideas' vs chad paul atreides 'i'm worse than hitler and my followers praise me for it'

[arctic talon]

This makes me sound fucking facist

So I’ll stop actually

[storm jungle]

The problem is the Imperium literally checks every single box of fascism minus being sexist.

[arctic talon]

Lol

[arctic talon]

Also the whole cultural homogenization thing

To an extent tbh

But yeah

[storm jungle]

Kinda but yeah

we dont hear of most of it because uh

we gotta sell toys

💀

[arctic talon]

It’s like 90% of the way there

Lol

[storm jungle]

Also what i hate is like

"its too spread out to be labelled as anything"

No?

it has a central government lol

and the Tithe literally and even EVENTUALLY requires you to eb authoritarian

because unless you pay up you are fucked

so like lmao

[late osprey]

considering the tithe doesnt even let you pay in human capital (other than literal human bodies as cannon fodder) its pretty clearly designed to be colonial in nature

[arctic talon]

Also democracy is explicitly seen as weird

[scenic bolt]

if being executed for not paying your planets tax aint a consolidated gov what is

[storm jungle]

And "failed" btw

which is hilarious

[late osprey]

and just looking out the proverbial window today, colonial methods are generally authoritarian

[storm jungle]

Yeah you can literally run the most tight, good, democratic planet ever before your tithes go up or your hand is forced to be an awful ruler to make ends meet.

We see examples of this in lore too

[arctic talon]

Oligarchy time

[late osprey]

like

[storm jungle]

no single planet is ever forever "run by good people"

[late osprey]

unless theres something in the lore thats like "Actually, I can pay in scientists, doctors, and engineers"

it's pretty blatantly supposed to be that your planet gives rocks and works its people to death digging up rocks

tithe is literally said to be "solely for the benefit of terra" too iirc

[arctic talon]

Skilled labor is tithed yeah

[arctic talon]

Terra is explicitly a paraaite

Lol

[storm jungle]

The issue with even if it happened is that the best part is the Adeptus Terra, Administratum or the Mechanicus can just go:

"Cool but I need to stripmine your entire planet lol"

💀

[arctic talon]

Mfw the mechanicus is less facist

[arctic talon]

KALKITE

[late osprey]

well that makes it a little more complicated at least because like

[storm jungle]

YES QUEEN

[arctic talon]

Average magos “FOLIATED KALKITE”

[late osprey]

if your tithe is in skilled people, we know that more liberal societies are better geared for that

vs rocks, which authoritarian societies are geared towards

[storm jungle]

the Empire at least shows the front of being "decent", the Imperium would just massacre and oppress the populace from Day 1 lol

[arctic talon]

The empire at least does a false flag

Lol

[storm jungle]

^

[arctic talon]

The imperium would start gunning down the crowd

Lol

[scenic bolt]

the extent of the conference would be what gets us the minerals the fastest

[storm jungle]

Ye pretty much

that entire boardroom scene is great

[arctic talon]

Literal 1 for 1 of a Nazi like

Thingy

Krennic is such a diva

love him tbh

[scenic bolt]

that interrogation scene was kino

[arctic talon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAx0SDAhpmg

my GOAT

[storm jungle]

I never felt as emotionally violated as I did when he poked her head with his finger.

[late osprey]

also space marine worlds just going "No, actually, don't develop this planet AT ALL because we want to recruit Fremen from Dune."

everyone else on the planet just starving to death from massive famines

[nocturne crest]

Awful idea: The next edition of HH boxset takes place on the siege of Terra. Should have Grav rhinos, Malcador and Space marines in Thunder armour.

[arctic talon]

its so fucking degrading its crazy lol

also fun fact

[storm jungle]

YEP

[arctic talon]

it was ad libbed

[storm jungle]

Mendelson my GOAT

[scenic bolt]

and the fact that it was improv and done in one take is golden

[arctic talon]

Ben Mendelsohn cooked that shit up

[storm jungle]

100%

[arctic talon]

before they filmed

[storm jungle]

Tbh

[arctic talon]

and it works so well

dedra looks so uncomfortable

[storm jungle]

his response to come back to SW was met with and I quote:

"Fuck yeah, lets do it."

[arctic talon]

tbf

he loves star wars

lol

[storm jungle]

I mean

i get to wear cape

i would too

lmao

[scenic bolt]

andor falls into the better call saul category of 'i dont care that these characters look 10 years older despite being canonically younger in timeline'

[storm jungle]

minus like Andor himself

mfer never aged

lol

[nocturne crest]

Hopefully Rogue One goes back into the cinemas next year for it's 10th anniversary.

[arctic talon]

Partagaz eating his own blaster

was also a really good scene

peak facist empire eating itself alive

[storm jungle]

I'll pray

[late osprey]

the empire being human supremacist is so funny when you consider the context of the lore

like

[dapper gyro]

Rogue One is good

[arctic talon]

good scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZtI5GQJ-7A

[late osprey]

imagine the emperor croaking out "oh yeah, also segregate everything" day 1 after taking power

thousands of years of everyone being integrated

[arctic talon]

talking about mass genocide

like its nothing

ngl

where the fuck does human racism even come from

in star wars

[nocturne crest]

I find it crazy that there were Rebels who were more human supremacists than the empire.

[arctic talon]

I know out of universe its because

its expensive as shit

to do the prosthetic aliens back then

but like is the in universe reason literally because palpatine is racist

[umbral kraken]

I saw an article about battlefront 2 maybe getting a revival or revitalization of some kind

[late osprey]

yes its fucking hilarious

[scenic bolt]

as a real answer it's due to the clone wars and how it was seen that the CIS was mostly non-humans

[late osprey]

actually

not LITERALLY nowhere

but the thing is that Naboo was apparently Planet Horrible Race War for like 100 years

while palpatine was growing up

[scenic bolt]

palpatine used that as propaganda during the chancellorship to make peace more unlikely

[late osprey]

so he was raised with old Horrible Race War era ethics

and he just carried that on to Power

[arctic talon]

okay

[nocturne crest]

I wonder if it's still canonical about him killing his own family for power.

[arctic talon]

so its both

Probably

he seems like the type of person

[late osprey]

it just seems like a Red Letter MEdia bit

[nocturne crest]

True.

[late osprey]

where he croaks out "Also im racist muahahahaha"

[arctic talon]

oh also K2SO murdering the gestapo KGB CIA ISB

is great as well

[nocturne crest]

Also, terrible thought because of the rise of skywalker. They could use clones to bring back anyone.

[sacred ginkgo]

“Are you with us”
“No”

[late osprey]

they just seem to never want to touch the Force Awakens+ era again

everything conveniently is set before or after Original Trilogy

[nocturne crest]

They're doing two films.

[arctic talon]

they're going to retcon it

I bet you

[umbral kraken]

star wars has been truly ruined by Disney

[arctic talon]

at least 1$

[nocturne crest]

One with Ryan Gosling.

[arctic talon]

look we've gotten some good stuff from them

lol

I cannot lie

[nocturne crest]

And one that follows Ryan.

*Rey

[umbral kraken]

true, like battlefront 2 I think

[nocturne crest]

Sorry.

[late osprey]

fine by me, i just wish they'd done the worldbuilding for the New Republic better

[umbral kraken]

or like rogue one people tell me

[late osprey]

instead of "Yeah they disarmed in the middle of a giant galactic cold war LOL!"

[arctic talon]

Lol

[late osprey]

like there is no way in hell the New Republic would ever realistically disarm

[nocturne crest]

Which with Thrawn coming back, makes even less sense.

[late osprey]

while the Imperial Remnant is around

like ???

"Flowers, not guns." as a giant frothing fascist tiger is right at your door

[arctic talon]

Oh also I like the starhawk

[nocturne crest]

The Remnants all got back together.

[arctic talon]

That shit is cool

Giant star destroyer except it’s main weapon is a tractor beam

[umbral kraken]

the new order always seemed like a gigantic ass pull. they weren't remnants like normal post OT imperials, they seemed to be a whole competent and sized military

[nocturne crest]

I wish we got a 40k version of squadrons.

[arctic talon]

So it literally tears your ship apart + can be used for non war applications

[nocturne crest]

Tbf, I think based on the Jedi games with the actor that played the Joker in a tv show, the grounds for the first order were set long before episode 4.

[umbral kraken]

who

[late osprey]

... you mean MARK HAMIL?

[umbral kraken]

yeah wtf

[arctic talon]

I do like how the first test in canon for the Starhawk

[late osprey]

"that one jedi joker guy"

[arctic talon]

Was the new republic trying to drag an ISD through an astroid field on the lowest tractor beam setting

And shred it with the asteroids

Lol

[sacred ginkgo]

Did it work

[arctic talon]

Yes

Lol

[sacred ginkgo]

How well

[nocturne crest]

https://tenor.com/view/smile-gotham-batman-gif-10935425

[arctic talon]

The star destroyer gets crippled

[late osprey]

i like the stormtroopers in all black, think theyre called something edgy like Death Troopers

but as always

[arctic talon]

For the rest of the campaign

[late osprey]

i wish they werent jobbers

[umbral kraken]

oh yeah...well, that was after ep7 (release date) tho wasnt it

[arctic talon]

They’re testing it on the lowest power setting

Because they you know

Want to see what it does

[nocturne crest]

https://tenor.com/view/jedi-survivor-cal-kestis-grown-star-wars-jedi-gif-27218097

[arctic talon]

The whole dragging it through an astroid field is because they feel like it

[late osprey]

but wishing any Imperial soldier be as cool as they look is seemingly asking for the moon

[arctic talon]

Which is fucking hilarious

[nocturne crest]

Found a more suitable gif.

[umbral kraken]

everything is a jobber in star wars against the main characters. and when they aren't jobbers it's all part of the plan

[arctic talon]

Yeah

Lol

[scenic bolt]

even thrawns gonna job

[arctic talon]

Plot armor time

[scenic bolt]

in ashoka s2

[arctic talon]

It’s pulpy sci fi

It’s kind of inevitable imo

[umbral kraken]

everything gets jobbed by named space marines too I bet

[nocturne crest]

Anyway, can't wait for Hayden Christian to return to star wars episode 10 as clone Anakin. / s

[late osprey]

it feels extra harsh about the Empire and the GCW era tbh, i swear even in the CLone Wars era they let more bad guys be cool on their own

[arctic talon]

Oh also I do like how angry/malicious a lot of the new republic pilots are in squadrons

One of your squad mates in the campaign thinks building a Death Star to exterminate the imperial remenents is a good idea

And they bring it up

Fucking constantly lol

[nocturne crest]

Tbf. The empire had done their Nero Decree at that point.

[arctic talon]

About how it would be much easier if they just killed everyone associating with the empire still

[umbral kraken]

a star wars tide game could be awesome. republic commando, jedi, teras kasi master, wookie.

all with goated melee and all thst

[arctic talon]

I’m excited

For the Star Wars Xcom

It looks cool

[late osprey]

CIS's non-droid forces need more attention

the Jabiimi are so cool its unreal

[arctic talon]

Anyways the starhawk is cool

I like the idea of a ship designed to literally tear apart another ship

[nocturne crest]

New Star wars TV series set in the sequel time line, but it's becomes Star Wars's take on the fall of the soviet Union.

[arctic talon]

With nothing but a tractor beam lol

[late osprey]

even the pro-republic Jabiimi are cool

[arctic talon]

Death of Stalin

But Star Wars

[late osprey]

Death of Palpatine, starring Steve Buscemi as Grand Moff

[arctic talon]

Lol

[late osprey]

"Look, pal, why don't you get your sith crap out of here?"

[arctic talon]

The Star Wars totally not xcom game looks cool

[sour hornet]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-death-troopers-galactic-empire-rogue-one-troopers-gif-18864137

[arctic talon]

Also has a republic aligned umbaran

Weirdly enough

[sour hornet]

I was legit obsessed with these guys as a kid

[arctic talon]

Oh god

[umbral kraken]

the coolest scene in the Disney star wars main movies was, imo, the giga lightning attack by Palpatine. then probably'd be the warp-suicide attack

[arctic talon]

That movie is 10 years old

Isn’t it lol

[sour hornet]

The voice scramblers are so kino

[arctic talon]

It’s a cool idea

Tbh

[late osprey]

https://tenor.com/b0CbE.gif

[sour hornet]

Yeah, I was in middle school when it came out

[late osprey]

it just gets worse and worse innit

[arctic talon]

William Pack

[sacred ginkgo]

Huh

[arctic talon]

Was 11

[sour hornet]

I was a young child

[arctic talon]

As in the actor

[sacred ginkgo]

That’s a thing

[arctic talon]

Lol

The actor was 11

When rogue one came out

And now he’s building a pipe bomb in an official Disney property

[nocturne crest]

Honest, I kind of dig the beach troopers design.

[umbral kraken]

I swear there's some sort of pattern with old series getting squad based top down games. alien got the same thing for some reason

[arctic talon]

https://youtu.be/rcxnRaZ6slU?si=Nv0p7UA8ERmEPmX0

Soon

(1 to 2 years prolly)

[sour hornet]

Supreme drip

[late osprey]

@arctic talon imagine this scene but its the Stormtrooper Corps taking over and purging the ISB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDOIzK8NuoU

[arctic talon]

LOL

Anyways these are the main characters of that game

And they can perma die

Which is funny

You get generic troops as well

But you also get 5 hero characters(?)

[sacred ginkgo]

What time period

Thanks autowrong

[nocturne crest]

So 40k's version of the death of Stalin would be the death of gulliman, right?

[arctic talon]

Oh also maybe the droid

[arctic talon]

Clone wars

Early to mid

Based on the fact the clone is in phase 1

[nocturne crest]

High Lords of Terra are the central Committee in 40k.

[late osprey]

there was something like this actually

[sacred ginkgo]

Could be an old ass vet

[late osprey]

Age of Apostasy was essentially an episode of the Imperium being like a mundane dictatorship

no demigod overlords

just Space Stalin

[arctic talon]

Could be a boomer who prefers phase 1 but we know it’s clone wars because the main enemies shown off are battle droids

[umbral kraken]

is it even sure that he's a clone anyway

or is he just wearing the armor

[arctic talon]

I mean

I’d bet it’s a clone

Tbh

[sacred ginkgo]

Oh ok that’s slightly stronger evidence

[arctic talon]

There’s literally battle droids as the main enemies

[umbral kraken]

I see

[arctic talon]

Also

[nocturne crest]

Clone romance-able?

[arctic talon]

The narrator literally is yapping about “the clone wars”

In the trailer

[arctic talon]

It’s an xcom game so no what the fuck lol

Unless they do something really weird

[sacred ginkgo]

I didn’t watch the trailer yet, making dinner

[nocturne crest]

Wasn't that something in one of the more recent xcom games.

With the snake lady as a team mate?

[sacred ginkgo]

Chimera squad?

[nocturne crest]

Maybe?

[arctic talon]

Oh chimera squad

That one doesn’t play like the traditional like

Xcom games

No generic soldiers

This game has the hero characters

But they’re just stronger then normal generic soldiers

And when they die they just fucking die

They’re gone forever

[tough haven]

It actually gives a game over screen if any die

which is lame

[arctic talon]

That’s different from what they initially said, oof

[tough haven]

All the characters were cool and well done though

[arctic talon]

I agree

Anyways I’m sure someone’s going to play the game with generic soldiers only

go my clone troopers

[umbral kraken]

at least that probably means they have a particular story to tell instead of some 10000 permutation monstrosity

[tough haven]

Its still fun, I'd recommend it

[arctic talon]

Wait is it out

What

[tough haven]

I just wish they'd just like be taken out of active duty

Chimera squad?

[arctic talon]

No

The new Star Wars game

[tough haven]

Oh I meant chimera squad

mb

[arctic talon]

Not chimera squad

Nah chimera squad is cool

It got way too much hate

Tbh

But too late now

@tough haven oh yeah did you see, mechanicus 2 gameplay footage

[tough haven]

A little

[late osprey]

chimera squad is just too much like the other turn-based squad games with its Main Characters

ironically, highly generic when they do that

the original Xcom method of customizable fellas is what really hooks people

also the old Chaos Gate is a lot like that too

wonder if the GK one is

[arctic talon]

It is

GK one is really customizable

Game just has a totally fucked difficulty curve

[crystal forum]

chimera squad exists because snake simps

[tough haven]

Snilk

[late osprey]

The Viper unit design, and its consequences, have been a DISASTER for xcom

there, i said it

[arctic talon]

Fucking dwarves

Oh also she’s back…. The creature

Scaevola my hated/beloved

[tough haven]

Wait you can play as her?

[arctic talon]

Yeah

All the named tech priests from 1 are usable

[tough haven]

Dwarves will see you doing ANYTHING underground and be like "Ooh ooh I want in too!" Like GTFO no one invited you

[arctic talon]

• generic priests

Also skitarii and servitors

[tough haven]

Necrons and tech priests work together to kill the short folk

[late osprey]

the thing that really bugged me in Mechanicus 1 was how fielding the named characters precluded you from running hordes of skitarii

i wonder if mechanicus 2 will let you do both

[arctic talon]

The tech priests?

[late osprey]

yeah

[arctic talon]

Also the answer is yes

Fights are way bigger

Lemme grab a screen shot

[crystal forum]

dwarves will glimpse upon a new cavern system and say "praise be to the elders, we can make some profit today!"

[late osprey]

you were capped on members in the first one so you either ran a tech priest or skitarii, was essentially the tradeoff

[arctic talon]

You have 8 characters in this image

• an additional skitarii in the background when it goes to another angle

Also a generic Dominus

OH SHIT

They updated the steam page

less characters then the original showcase(maybe you'll unlock more)

[late osprey]

this strategic map is really cool

very evocative of Xcom 2's long war style

[arctic talon]

they're called squads

[late osprey]

i also felt the first one was a bit too linear at times

[arctic talon]

aside from the kataphrons

and the servitor

servitor shows an adjustable squad size though

of 1-4

[late osprey]

yeah this is awesome

[arctic talon]

cognition points are back

hopefully the game is balanced better

lol

yapping

[late osprey]

actually if hereteks become playable too

thatd be sick

[arctic talon]

well scaevola is around, so we might get generic xenarites

[late osprey]

i just mean like how in the first one's dlc there was chaos mechanicus

[arctic talon]

Those are xenarites still

akshully 🤓

just way too extreme

[late osprey]

sorry i can only store Inquisition lore in my brain i forgot

what are xenarites?

[arctic talon]

Xenarites are a Mechanicus subcult who like studying xenos tech and integrating it or derriving things from it for imperial tech

Scaevola is a good example of one