40k-lore-chat

[storm jungle]

they arent invading the imperial palace

[dusk patrol]

It really is

[storm jungle]

It really isnt.

[dusk patrol]

They’re crash landing on Terra as a random podunk renegade warband

Find me some examples of that

[storm jungle]

Like if you dont like it go complain in your chapter server or something.

Its not that big of a deal

[dusk patrol]

It is, it’s way over the top, you just always downplay all imperium stuff for whatever reason even when the lore is completely at odds with it

[storm jungle]

In all my over a decade of being a warhammer fan I've genuinely seen way worse stuff compared to this.

[dusk patrol]

Yes and that stuff is bad

[storm jungle]

Me? Always? When lol

[dusk patrol]

Literally always

[storm jungle]

Okay

Examples?

[crystal forum]

i like thinking up scenarios where space marines do dumb shit it's always my favorite part of their books

[vagrant fox]

Personally, I'd usually suggest avoiding big important places and characters for homebrew or fan stuff but go for it if you want

[dusk patrol]

Right now, acting like crash landing on Terra with a bunch of marines is easy to do

[storm jungle]

If this was conceptually executed well and written by some actual author everyone here would be like "yeah its perfectly explained"

[storm jungle]

It literally isnt.

[dusk patrol]

^

It really is

[storm jungle]

I listed all the stuff for how you can make it work and that it isnt that easy.

[storm jungle]

It really isnt.

[dusk patrol]

Find me some examples then in lore of it

[tulip sand]

https://youtu.be/1ERmUzs1O5E?si=hU4XzZ-PopgCdRnv

[storm jungle]

DREADNAUGHT

[crystal forum]

the fact that it's terra is important to the story because i want these guys to realize how fucked the imperium is. it's not a random choice

[raven stone]

Welp.
Father sprained an ankle from stairs mis-step.

[tulip sand]

This ad lmao

[dusk patrol]

You can do that with any world though

[storm jungle]

Vaults of Terra basically covers a similiar thing which you are referencing constantly yet miss the point completely that its nowhere near as much of a catastrophe.

[raven stone]

I did not know this existed.

[storm jungle]

Genuinely like, just get over it

[dusk patrol]

Vaults of Terra covers how hard it is to smuggle in one guy using high inquisitor credentials and being covered by high lords

[storm jungle]

Oh my god.

[dusk patrol]

Which still gets found out

[storm jungle]

Yes, because the plot and conspiracy is way too intricate and big in nature.

Compared to uh, you know

[tulip sand]

Its 1991 warhammer basically

[storm jungle]

Ship crashes on bumfuck middle of nowhere on Terra
People go missing amidst the trillions that do daily

Like im not even a big fan of the idea myself is the thing

but you acting this weird about it is legit goofy

[dusk patrol]

Thats not how that works though, they literally go into how hard it is to get a ship past all the layers of security without it being discovered

[tulip sand]

I like how the space marines act like power rangers putting their helmets on in sync

[crystal forum]

these guys fought in the unifications wars, they held hope that they could restore something that will never exist, doing anything they can to recreate the great crusades by killing anybody they deem to be against the emperor's original ideas. they thought they could do this despite being a relatively small number of space marines surviving off of scraps they find while crusading.

The guys who land on terra only truly realize how pointless it all is because nothing about the imperium is salvageable. they could excuse fringe planets but terra itself hammers it home to them

[storm jungle]

When a setting is built on "you can essentially almost excuse anything with the right writing" it doesnt really matter in my opinion.

Like theres a limit I agree, but this is so low/medium on the spectrum that it kinda is whatever in the big picture of things.

[tulip sand]

Also £25.99 for a bunch of minis, a tileset and dice 😭

[dusk patrol]

It’s also not, and his is more important, something that needs Terra to work as a concept

[storm jungle]

It very much is.

Again. Please get over it.

If you dont like it thats fine, nobody is forcing you to lol

[crystal forum]

that's the theme of the story

[storm jungle]

I dont think he particularly cares

[dusk patrol]

It doesn’t need Terra to work is the thing

I don’t dislike the core idea

But it doesn’t need this huge over the top element to work

It’s distracting from the main idea

[storm jungle]

A merchant barge crash in the home of a gazillion people is not really that over the top.

[dusk patrol]

They wouldn’t get that close

[crystal forum]

i believe it serves the story

[dusk patrol]

That’s the problem

[storm jungle]

They would when credentials and ID stuff exists.

[dusk patrol]

We are told how many layers of screening there is

[storm jungle]

Or you know, any sci-fi bullshit.

[rose thorn]

NO WAY

[storm jungle]

Like, as many 40k plots do.

[dusk patrol]

No, they all get searched

[storm jungle]

Okay?

Same rule applies.

[dusk patrol]

This is some random fuck warband

[rose thorn]

WARHAMMER REALLY IS FOR KIDS

[dusk patrol]

They don’t have these resources

[storm jungle]

[rose thorn]

I WANT THAT GOD AWFUL COSTUEM SO BAD

[dusk patrol]

It’s so over the top for no reason, when it could be much simpler and do the same idea

[storm jungle]

Its really much

again

not that over the top

[crystal forum]

i dont think it's over the top. they're not plundering the vaults of terra

[dusk patrol]

It really is, I don’t care if you wanna downplay how wildly insane Terra’s security is always said to be

[storm jungle]

Its very much not.

[storm jungle]

This has basically once again boiled into you not wanting to stop an argument by saying "I dont really like it but do what you will really." and wishing to come out ontop of a really dumb debate.

[dusk patrol]

It has nothing to do with that, Sol itself is extremely hard to get into

[crystal forum]

you're right but we know it can happen

[dusk patrol]

No it’s me sticking to established lore

[crystal forum]

no defence is infallible

[storm jungle]

Uhuh.

[dusk patrol]

Based off what?

[storm jungle]

Sure Jan.

[crystal forum]

genestealers

[forest orbit]

Love that commercial.

[dusk patrol]

Genestealers can “sneak” in using normal people

[storm jungle]

They dont though.

[dusk patrol]

They’re not marines

Yes they do

[crystal forum]

those normal people have to wait centuries

[dusk patrol]

Cultists can just sneak in

[crystal forum]

ok HOW

[dusk patrol]

They’re people dude

[storm jungle]

No?

Some are extremely mutated

How do they never get found then.

[dusk patrol]

1st generation aren’t

[storm jungle]

Damn, didnt know that.

[dusk patrol]

Same as chaos cultists can sneak in

[crystal forum]

so you're agreeing that something can get past terra's screening

[storm jungle]

[dusk patrol]

Yes because they’re not fucking marines

They’re normal people

[storm jungle]

The absolute infinity symbol logic of this dude i swear

[dusk patrol]

If you said “they sent some normal dudes to the planet”

That’s a much easier ask

Not a bunch of marines hiding in some merchant vessel

[storm jungle]

Yeah merchant vessels are like extremely small.

They wouldnt fit

[dusk patrol]

They literally scan and search these ships

[storm jungle]

Yeah and as we know uh

all terran merchant ships, barges, or any small vessel has no way to access Sol.

since they lost all their ID cards in their morning coffee iirc

[crystal forum]

what if they have some dark age invisibility field

[storm jungle]

Nah see they wouldnt.

[dusk patrol]

Sure whatever

[storm jungle]

They just dont have the resources

just uh

[dusk patrol]

They probably have a Necron dolmen gate entrance too

[storm jungle]

please ignore all the other times renegade marines randomly have these mcguffins

for the sake of plot convenience

[dusk patrol]

Or a Webway back door

[storm jungle]

You joke but thats a thing

which is funny i didnt remember that

[dusk patrol]

Yes I know

[storm jungle]

Do you now?

Are you sure?

[crystal forum]

even 40k has government backdoors

[dusk patrol]

I’ve read Throneworld

Unfortunately

[storm jungle]

Damn thats crazy me too

[forest orbit]

Just for the sake of a second opinion before I get insulted again I think the idea is neat. Like said above i think its a bit pushing it but after having read the Cypher book ive seen worse things, so you got my vote chief

if that matters lol

[dusk patrol]

Regardless, I think you’d be served much better by changing it to them kidnapping people who are Terran and finding out about Terra another way.

[crystal forum]

it does matter to me thank you

[storm jungle]

Yeah I said that before.

[forest orbit]

👍

And as ever ignore the tinmouth.

[opaque coyote]

By Substance20

[dusk patrol]

The Cypher book also had them literally on Terra already and had some other stuff going on but whatever.

[opaque coyote]

In the 41st millennium

The only video games are gacha

[storm jungle]

They were very sneaky!

Even invaded during a DOOM invasion

🧠

Anyway also gunned down like everyone they came across which was funny.

[crystal forum]

didn't cypher fight his way out of the palace prison

[forest orbit]

Yeah he did

With like

[dusk patrol]

He get let out by someone

[forest orbit]

the most bullshit excuse ever

[forest orbit]

No he doesnt

[crystal forum]

and he kills custodes

[dusk patrol]

It was very handwavey

[forest orbit]

His door has a convenient fault in it

[opaque coyote]

Can't be found out if there are no witnesses

[dusk patrol]

He’s also Cypher

[storm jungle]

Damn!

Almost like most warhammer lore

Somehow its convenient when a book does it

[forest orbit]

Really nuts

Makes you think

[dusk patrol]

I mean I assume Jay doesn’t want his story to suck

[crystal forum]

only dan abnet can write terra slop

[opaque coyote]

Tbf that goes for a lot of lore in general

[forest orbit]

Ive seen worse tbh.

You are just being a jerk for no reason

[dusk patrol]

Also his guys aren’t Cypher, and it’s not the same thing either way

[opaque coyote]

Unless if the creators write it, it's implausible by the established logic

[storm jungle]

The lore definitely has a limit but this is like the most tame thing ive seen lol

[crystal forum]

that's why they mostly die eternal

[dusk patrol]

We know stuff breaks out of the dark cells because stuff in them is wild

[storm jungle]

Yeah wow

Also kinda convenient

[opaque coyote]

Plot armor

My beloved

[storm jungle]

The only true answer

[opaque coyote]

Tbf most writing is dedicated to hiding it as much as possible

[dusk patrol]

I would read Vaults of Terra first and then decide, it’s a great series for one so read it anyways

[opaque coyote]

Whether by being as realistic as possible

Or creating it's own crazy ass logic

[dusk patrol]

Emperors Legion and Regents shadow are also good

[storm jungle]

The entire setting is built on excuses so it pretty much.

[dusk patrol]

If you want examples of how Terra’s security works

[storm jungle]

"Why did the Emperor make space marines"

[dusk patrol]

Don’t take anyone else’s word for it

[opaque coyote]

But it's worth noting that whatever bullshit your characters go through and survive.

... there's probably a human being that survived it

[storm jungle]

"Because all these evil aliens are too conveniently strong"

[storm jungle]

Also this jay

dont trust me

[crystal forum]

i wonder if storm walkers is already taken by some chapter

[storm jungle]

i only aim to lead you astray

(mostly because you are gay)

[dusk patrol]

Storm Wardens

Their as close as it gets

[crystal forum]

i could just call them storm walkers

[vagrant fox]

normal turk behavior

[crystal forum]

my space marines

[opaque coyote]

Seriously the human body is fucking insane.

It can survive some horrible shit.

...and it can also fail from an accidental paper cut

[storm jungle]

Just dont ask me about the region up east

🇦🇲

[dusk patrol]

I would maybe change it a bit

But you could

[crystal forum]

is storm walkers important to lore at all?

[dusk patrol]

It’s just the legions original nick name

[opaque coyote]

Europeans when Romanians are mentioned

Koreans when Japan is mentioned

Americans when Mexicans are mentioned

Etc. etc. etc.

[storm jungle]

[crystal forum]

yeah but did they have much lore from back then

because they're trying to literally return to storm walkers

[storm jungle]

Since they are an offshoot probably making it some cheesy name like the Storm Sons or whatever could work, implies they arent a part of a larger whole anymore.

[dusk patrol]

Cause the Hammer and the Storm strategy they favored

[dusk patrol]

Not a ton

Some though

Ferrus got found super early

[crystal forum]

alright then something like storm reclaimers or something

[storm jungle]

Yeah that

[dusk patrol]

Stormborn

[storm jungle]

Some cheesy He-Man shit

you know the rules

[forest orbit]

Dilara is the most offensive person in this chat it is known

[crystal forum]

that's a good one

[opaque coyote]

Forged Thunder

[dusk patrol]

The Battle of Rust is the primary lore we have on them prior

[storm jungle]

Damn thats a good one actually

[dusk patrol]

Amadeus DuCaine and his lore too

[storm jungle]

lol

[crystal forum]

don't salamanders oddly have a lot of pre primarch lore

[storm jungle]

Yeah they do but its so and so

[crystal forum]

occulus imperia's video goes into it

[opaque coyote]

Racism my favorite

[storm jungle]

like the pre-primarch Legion lore is a toss of the coin

some get a lot, some dont

[dusk patrol]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Battle_of_Rust

[storm jungle]

"They were violent savages before their primarch"

"Now they are violent fascists WITH a warlord"

[forest orbit]

LOL

I mean

yeha thats accurate

[crystal forum]

i think the story was about how they pushed into some terran fortress

[dusk patrol]

Dragon Warriors or something

[crystal forum]

i like pre primarch legion lore

[dusk patrol]

But most legions have at least one little major event they had

Prior to their primarch

[forest orbit]

[opaque coyote]

World Eaters

They were insane, organized butchers

Now they are insane unorganized butchers that occasionally teamkill

[keen nova]

Simon in Simon says

[dusk patrol]

Unification was a long long time

[storm jungle]

Good movie

[crystal forum]

some legions dont even have named predecessors lol

[storm jungle]

though i dont know why they got a basketball star for it

[dusk patrol]

They didn’t have names always but they often have some lore

[storm jungle]

They are just doing an honest life's work

[keen nova]

Movie???

[dusk patrol]

The names weren’t official often too

[storm jungle]

Yeah it has Van Damme in it

hold on

[dusk patrol]

They were mostly called by their numbers

The names were nicknames more so

[crystal forum]

it's a shame, i'd love to know more about early crusades

[dusk patrol]

Black Books

Read em

That’s basically where all this is from mostly

[keen nova]

Damn Hollywood taking muh childhood games for profit!

[opaque coyote]

I fucking love Zen Berserkers. It is like my favorite concept tbh.

"I am at peace..."

They say as they bisect somebody with their bare hands.

"Nothing can affect me..."

[storm jungle]

If you are looking for some 90's cheese slop this is it

[crystal forum]

i know great crusades have to be kept somewhat mysterious but still

[storm jungle]

Gotta make the nails stop ticking somehow.

[forest orbit]

Is this the fucking movie where he escapes from a penal colony spa???

[keen nova]

Was thinking of watching demolition man as i never got to see it.

[storm jungle]

Yes the one with the seashore having laser grids

[storm jungle]

100000% recommend

awesome movie

also it has fucking Wesley Snipes

whta else do you need

https://tenor.com/view/simon-phoenix-demoltion-man-wesley-snipes-exactly-gif-16902902

[crystal forum]

i didn't like demolition man personally but i can't watch most stalone movies so that's probably why

[forest orbit]

the man, the vampire, the legend

[storm jungle]

theres only one Blade

[storm jungle]

that sucks lol

anyway so Pizza Hutt won the unification wars-

[crystal forum]

i hate the first dredd movie

[forest orbit]

Mood.

Its fun as a mindless movie but as a Dredd movie it sucks balls

[storm jungle]

all because Stallone cannot wear a helmet

pussy

[crystal forum]

yet somehow the newer one was a commercial failure WHY IS LIFE SO UNFAIR

[storm jungle]

Because of bad marketing

it was EXTREMELY unlucky

[forest orbit]

also during the end of the 3D craze

[storm jungle]

^

it got done an super bad hand

[crystal forum]

such a shame man

[storm jungle]

maybe its for the better

id rather have a single standalone thing sometimes as much as i hate it

[crystal forum]

ye same

[opaque coyote]

I just love how the World Eaters are actually really philosophical and well read individuals.

Like I can imagine them murdering people while spouting out Nieztche or something angrily.

... actually that's so fucking 40k.

"God is dead..."

whirrs chain axe

"God remains dead."

[forest orbit]

I guess

[crystal forum]

sequels could have sucked

but i'd prefer having the chance

[forest orbit]

Yeh Dil is kinda right on that

I still sit to watch Dredd annually

its so fucking good

Astartes even used soudn samples from it

[storm jungle]

Oh yeah I forgot about that lol

[crystal forum]

good action movies are rare even though it's one of the most common genres

[storm jungle]

GW replaced them later, twats

[opaque coyote]

It is a movie that was ahead of it's time.

Ironically by being behind it's time

[crystal forum]

if only directors understood that an action movie should be mostly cool action

like just focus on the fucking action

[storm jungle]

[forest orbit]

Sorry jay cant hear you

look at all these quick edit cuts

https://tenor.com/view/bryan-mills-liam-neeson-taken-jump-a-fence-jumps-fence-gif-23570288

[crystal forum]

love interest for no reason

[storm jungle]

Oh my fucking god

YOU DID NOT just post that Taken fence gif

[forest orbit]

HOW MANY CUTS

DO YOU NEED.

[storm jungle]

Not enough.

also awful

[forest orbit]

Thanks I try to be

[dusk patrol]

Honestly, they do go into a lot of it, I don’t think they care a ton about keeping that under wraps

[forest orbit]

[crystal forum]

it's because they want to overdo it so they feel like they're doing extra

[opaque coyote]

Like the future is constantly contrasted by Wesley and Stallone basically doing cheesy 80s action shit.

And that's intentional. They're intentionally behind their time. Everybody in the sanitized future are like "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS??"

[forest orbit]

Probably but man its bad.

[crystal forum]

they have all these shots and they want to use it

[dusk patrol]

Terran Unification is a little different

[storm jungle]

Dude

[dusk patrol]

They do keep that sorta mysterious still and vague

[storm jungle]

As a girl I was OBSESSED with the swear-o-machine

https://tenor.com/view/violation-verbal-moralities-demolition-man-sylvester-stallone-fines-gif-8127365289701534176

"Asshole. Dickhead. Bastard. Piece of shit-"

[crystal forum]

that was a funny scene

[forest orbit]

Its one of my favorites

all so he gets toilet paper btw

[dusk patrol]

I was obsessed with mind fucking Sandra Bullock

[storm jungle]

Who wasnt.

I mean what

[forest orbit]

Pause.

[storm jungle]

What, shes pretty

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/sandra-bullock-celeb-celebrity-gif-21842332

[storm jungle]

my man

[opaque coyote]

I wonder if John Spartan woke up to having a negative credit score in-between the action scenes

[dusk patrol]

Peak Bullock

[storm jungle]

I DONT think so

because the swear-laws obviously came later

[crystal forum]

escape from new york is another great one. action movies that do exposition first then go all in on the action is what i crave

[dusk patrol]

Tbh what are they gonna do?

Arrest him?

[storm jungle]

Uhhh

Well yes

But he'll punch them

so it solves itself

[crystal forum]

just get the exposition out of the way i want cool action

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/demolition-man-simon-phoenix-wesley-snipes-future-the-future-gif-21450304

[crystal forum]

also fuck off with the love interests

[storm jungle]

Arbites with zero rizz.

[forest orbit]

Escape is a very interesting one

[dusk patrol]

I do love how jacked they all are

[opaque coyote]

My favorite scene is when he asks if the burger was made of rat.

The lady says yes.

And Stallone just shrugs and continues eating

[dusk patrol]

For some reason

[storm jungle]

Gene-enhancements at 10 but intelligence at 1

[opaque coyote]

Then again, with Taco Bell being the ONLY REMAINING RESTAURANT.

[storm jungle]

average fallout walkthrough

[dusk patrol]

I guess those cats aren’t gonna get themselves out of trees

[crystal forum]

the restaurant wars

[storm jungle]

Nah

its the Franchise Wars

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/what-seems-to-be-your-boggle-gif-20311532

[crystal forum]

yeah

[opaque coyote]

I would fucking consume rat burgers too

[storm jungle]

"My boggle?"

fucking kills him

[opaque coyote]

I genuinely kinda wish we got a prequel comic for like

A day to day in this future lmao

[crystal forum]

silly 90's, companies dont go to war they just become oligarchies and control the government

[opaque coyote]

It is mildly entertaining to imagine this taking place in Cyberpunk 2077 universe

[storm jungle]

Too clean.

[opaque coyote]

And that the franchise wars are actually just corpo wars

[storm jungle]

actually thats also a good point lol

[opaque coyote]

And that Los Angeles is just the opposite of like Night City

Extremely safe, clean, etc.

[crystal forum]

i love how the movie treats this as a bad thing too

[storm jungle]

I guess thats what you get when you literally ice your populace.

[storm jungle]

Well IT KINDA is

[dusk patrol]

It kinda falls apart when you realize people would be still alive that remember old LA

[storm jungle]

its just not explained well

[dusk patrol]

The how they get there isn’t super important

Realistically you’d need probably to add a hundred years at least

[storm jungle]

Especially since he gets put in literal fucking ice.

[opaque coyote]

I mean the clean future is too clean. To the point where there is no real freedom or way to express opinion.

You get fined for swearing.

In comparison to the underbelly which is dirty, destitute, but free

[storm jungle]

Also rat burgers.

https://tenor.com/view/ratburger-rat-demolitionman-sandra-bullock-sylvester-stallone-gif-24799478

[opaque coyote]

Also it implies that they possibly did genocides to get to this point

[storm jungle]

I mean

[opaque coyote]

Like I think it's mentioned that John Spartan's wife literally died during a war

[opaque coyote]

I love how she looks so awkward during that entire exchange

[humble shoal]

The clean world is clean by removing all negative and most positive stimuli

Its brave new world in a dress

[opaque coyote]

Brave New World at least allowed you to fuck

[storm jungle]

"Do you see any animals around here?"

[humble shoal]

also the head of the world economic forum dresses like the dictator in that movie

[crystal forum]

alright well no use in arguing about a 90's over the top dystopia

not like they were trying to make a statement above "freedom good"

[opaque coyote]

Kind of. They do try to acknowledge that there needs to be a mixture of freedom and order

Because Los Angeles in the past is a hellhole (and still is)

[humble shoal]

The end basically says "clean guys get a more dirty, dirty guys get more clean"

[opaque coyote]

Although worded awkwardly at best. The entire movie is mainly about the benefits and NOT benefits of each extreme

[crystal forum]

every movie from back then treated crime like something that could be fixed by killing criminals anyways

[humble shoal]

Yeah

[crystal forum]

maybe 80's more

[humble shoal]

See thats the best part, demolition man didnt do that

[crystal forum]

robocop being a funny exception that nobody bothered to understand

[opaque coyote]

Yeah. Stallone ironically enough actually doesn't for the people in the underworld. He knows that he isn't the best at deciding who needs to die.

Hell, he actually arrested Wesley Snipes in the intro.

[humble shoal]

They just both got iced in a sorta "no tolerance bullying" sorta way

[opaque coyote]

Only for him to get arrested also because of the system

[dusk patrol]

It helps if you look at the crime issues of the time

Where NYC and LA were actually really shitty

They still have some issues but it’s improved a lot

[opaque coyote]

Ironically shows that both of the systems are corrupt

[crystal forum]

i know about historical context, doesn't make the cultural response any valid

[humble shoal]

What, you mean like roof koreans?

[dusk patrol]

Well it did get fixed by killing criminals and going after them to some degree

[opaque coyote]

Also true. Unfortunately, humans don't like complicated things.

They like simple solutions

[dusk patrol]

It’s just have Stallone go take them down through a long wire tap or whatever isn’t as fun

[humble shoal]

RICO acting wesley snipes

[dusk patrol]

It was a long process of cracking down hard on the crime and then rebuilding stuff

Tearing up the different mobs, gangs

[crystal forum]

that's one way to view it

so clean sounding

[storm jungle]

At least its not starship troopers.

[humble shoal]

I mean NYC was clean for most of my childhood, isnt really anymore

[opaque coyote]

I recently saw somebody say it was a patriotic war movie

I mean they're... Half right?

[storm jungle]

If you are a dumbass then yeah lol

[keen nova]

Oi, you guys have a favorite battlesuit?

[storm jungle]

Well on the surface yes

its a propaganda movie

[opaque coyote]

Like it is but in universe

[crystal forum]

that's what the book was about so can you blame them

[humble shoal]

Im from buenos aires and I say kill em all

[storm jungle]

Hold on gotta break out the chart

[keen nova]

Oh no, starship troopers

[opaque coyote]

Honestly just disappointed that they didn't adapt the PA from the books

[keen nova]

It's about to be a war

[storm jungle]

I mean

i dont think we have anyone here that actually thinks this movie has a "positive" message

"Go die and get mauled in a war"

[humble shoal]

Director was pretty open about it

[keen nova]

It's gonna be the XV88 broadside for me

[storm jungle]

Considering Verhooven grew up in an actual fascist regime that checks out

[opaque coyote]

It was hamfisted to the point where it's shoved up your ass and yet it still flew over people's heads

[crystal forum]

book's author was a cryptofascist who is another good example of how some people viewed crime back then

[storm jungle]

Stormsurge for me

mostly because its just a metal gear rex

[crystal forum]

the youth are going crazy let's send them to war

[humble shoal]

A fascist that likes bitcoin?

[crystal forum]

a fascist who wont outright admit it

[opaque coyote]

Unfortunately true.

And also why the director didn't read the book at all lmao

[humble shoal]

Id be interested in starship troopers universe, but non-military service

[storm jungle]

Yeah the O.G writer of Starship is weird because hes very pro-military but like... the book is also just kinda fucking boring?

I finished it but uh

i get why the director could barely get through it

[opaque coyote]

Like he read like 3 pages and presumably was like

"This shit is fucking boring"

[storm jungle]

its legit agony

[keen nova]

Wasn't he a Libertarian?

[storm jungle]

I THINK so?

[crystal forum]

again, he wont admit

[humble shoal]

Not quite

[storm jungle]

im half sure he was but i dont think he knows what that means

[opaque coyote]

Honestly kinda want to imagine the book but adapted to the movie universe weirdly enough

Like a parody of it

[humble shoal]

He was closer to a roman democracy I guess (with mandatory mikitary service for citizens)

[opaque coyote]

With that same hamfisted tone

[storm jungle]

Ive been saying this with Jurassic Park!!!

[keen nova]

I do am multitasking here for my break but that is a spooky sentence lol.

[crystal forum]

but he believed in a state controlled by military service and near religious belief in that state. just because a form of democracy exist does not mean it can't be fascist

[storm jungle]

Yeaaaah that.

Its kinda imposed on stuff like HD2 as well from that

[humble shoal]

Basically a military junta

[storm jungle]

yep

which happens in the novel

[dusk patrol]

He really wasn’t, he wrote books with the “ideal” societies of different political ideologies

[arctic talon]

Farsight enclaves reference

[opaque coyote]

True.

Although I do like Hammond more in JP movie rather than the book.

An extreme dumbass is more plausible tbh

[humble shoal]

But then again in the book it says there are non-military ways to serve

Which seemed more interesting to me tbh

[dusk patrol]

He also wrote a book about a communist ideal society

[storm jungle]

Hammond in the books is just a cunt yeah, in the movie hes a well meaning old man who misses the point and gets lost in cihldhood whimsy

[humble shoal]

If we wanna look at his political affiliations, he ran for office

[dusk patrol]

Starship troopers the movie is fun but it’s telling the Verhooven didn’t get the book at all, he didn’t even try to read it.

[humble shoal]

So that would help in determining

[dusk patrol]

They’re just different things

[storm jungle]

Nothing really wrong with that tbh.

[opaque coyote]

Yeah it captures the CEO mindset of many people nowadays.

Elon Muskrat with his hopeful outlook on space.

Ocean gate CEO, who believed so much that he went into the submarine himself and died

[arctic talon]

I don’t think he’s saying there’s anything wrong with it

It’s just different

[keen nova]

Anyone who has proven that they are willing to put the common good over themselves yeah?

So you could get Citizenship by Volunteering for experimental medicine and the like.

[storm jungle]

Yeah but the book is boring so i get it still

I forgot when i even read it though its been awhile

[dusk patrol]

Well I believe you’d think it was boring

[storm jungle]

(definitely not doing it again)

[humble shoal]

Or a truck driver

[storm jungle]

I mean it is

[opaque coyote]

Still disappointed that they didn't add the power armor though

[storm jungle]

im also not really interested in a guy attempting bad fictional politics

[opaque coyote]

That is like the coolest thing from kt

[storm jungle]

i got the Prequels for that

[keen nova]

It resulted in a fun movie. Propaganda and cheese are very charming

[storm jungle]

Yeah but again it also spawned a wave of international morons unfortunately

(very topical)

[dusk patrol]

Verhooven was never one for subtly

[opaque coyote]

The Prequels politics are interesting

...but that's only due to the supplemental material let's be fair

[dapper gyro]

If you read the StarShip Troopers books, then you suddenly realized that the mobile infantry are not that strong and the whole war is just an excuse.

[dusk patrol]

That’s

[storm jungle]

Pretty much.

[dusk patrol]

Not really true what?

[storm jungle]

😭

[dusk patrol]

The mobile infantry are insanely OP

[storm jungle]

WAİT

is this fucking warframe

[arctic talon]

Yes

Lol

[dusk patrol]

In the book that is

[opaque coyote]

Like I said. I like Movie Hammond more due to him kinda capturing this view.

Being so consumed by his pet project that he doesn't see the moral constraints or the fact that people are in danger

[humble shoal]

They have a bunch of bullets per bullet

[dusk patrol]

Also interestingly it’s the first example of the idea of powered armor in sci fi like that

[arctic talon]

Is that the fucking Tesla robot

In the background lol

[keen nova]

I would say something about another movie but then we'd be here all day lol.

[storm jungle]

Yes lmao

[opaque coyote]

Saving this

[dusk patrol]

They throw fucking nukes as grenades

[storm jungle]

Which one

[dusk patrol]

Iirc barely any even die

[arctic talon]

The Warframe community has photoshopped Elon Musk into Nef Anyo quite a bit

[dapper gyro]

Yes, they have some big payload, but the rest are paper.

[dusk patrol]

The bugs are very different too in the book

[arctic talon]

Because they’re both very similar

Nef is marginally more evil

Actually

Elon might be more evil

[dusk patrol]

The book isn’t really focused on the way the same, it’s more about Rico’s whole journey

[storm jungle]

Too true lol

[dapper gyro]

And that's the funny thing, the book is written in a way that you buy into the propaganda.

[dusk patrol]

It’s been a long while since I read it

[dapper gyro]

Which, including weapons and gear.

[opaque coyote]

I like the movie bug designs better tbh

[storm jungle]

The movie is better in many ways

like the book is very much not that well written

[dusk patrol]

I mean yes the point of Heinlein is he wrote ideal societies for these different ideologies

[storm jungle]

especially when you put the author himself into the equation.

[humble shoal]

Id argue they are completely different entities with marginally similar names

[storm jungle]

im very glad Veerhoven didnt fully read it lol

[dusk patrol]

The book is amazingly written lol

You didn’t even read it

[storm jungle]

Its not, and thats fine.

[opaque coyote]

Fell asleep while reading it

[storm jungle]

"amazingly" is crazy

[opaque coyote]

[dusk patrol]

Its very well regarded for a reason

[storm jungle]

🤝

[storm jungle]

"well regarded"

uhuh

[crystal forum]

which book is that?
also he was an outwardly anti communist democrat at that time

[humble shoal]

Like battlefield earth

[storm jungle]

its literally only known for causing the movie and nothing else

[dapper gyro]

It might be the ice breaker for some ideas, doesn't mean it is good.

[dusk patrol]

Something with the moon one sec

[humble shoal]

The bugs are the ideal communist society

[storm jungle]

He was faking it trust me bro

[opaque coyote]

Again, genuinely would like the book and the movie combined tbh

[storm jungle]

Same.

No idea where this notion that the book is well written comes from lol

[opaque coyote]

Would be interesting to see the hamfisted tone mixed with the power armor and movie bugs

[storm jungle]

I did a book club reading it with it like a few years afterwards with uhhh

[dusk patrol]

It was and still is pivotal sci fi, maybe people who only look at stuff on a surface level think that’s what it’s known for

[storm jungle]

It wasnt and calling it "pivotal" too is really stretching it.

anyway

[dusk patrol]

It’s a huge influence to modern sci fi

[storm jungle]

Riiiiight

sure

[humble shoal]

Power armor

[opaque coyote]

I would count shit like War of the Worlds, Time Machine, etc. as pivotal tbh

[humble shoal]

[dusk patrol]

You’re just wrong, and you literally said you didn’t read it

[crystal forum]

the fact that Heinlein was impressed by atlas shrugged should tell you a lot about his "socialist" ideas

[storm jungle]

....

Can you actually read.

I said i read it awhile ago just like you

[dapper gyro]

Though, the fact that people think the mobile infantry are "insanely op" proven that the author did success in the message he tried to do.

[storm jungle]

holy shit eternal im actually like

[dusk patrol]

You said you didn’t finish it

[humble shoal]

Well he said he was a libertarian

[storm jungle]

gonna drop a brick on your face

this is the 4th argument we are having

in the last 24 hours

[storm jungle]

Yeah when i was reading it for the first time

[humble shoal]

And was fairly certain part of the john birch society, so yeah not a socialist

[crystal forum]

you do know how vague that term is right

[dusk patrol]

I would read the Moon is a Harsh Mistress then

It’s a good example of an ideal communist society

[storm jungle]

Anyway

I remember reading it with a group of like 7 people i think

and uh

we finished and were discussing it

[opaque coyote]

Atlas Shrugged more like Atlas fucking died

[storm jungle]

and not a single person liked anything from it minus noticing the sci-fi tropes

it was pretty funny

i think thats like my most fond memory of it

[opaque coyote]

Seriously the world of the book falls apart if you think about it more than two seconds

[dusk patrol]

Basically all his books are like, ideal societies for different ideologies, he himself didn’t think the Starship Troopers society was ideal

[storm jungle]

Atlas Shrugged is PEAK

entirely because it gave us Bioshock

the author is a cunt

[opaque coyote]

It did inspire BioShock so

[humble shoal]

Stranger in a strange land was a weird one for me

[dusk patrol]

I’m trying to remember what each book tackled

[viral halo]

Fuck Ayn Rand

[opaque coyote]

It's existence is validated

[storm jungle]

Entirely.

aside from that im glad that old hag accumulated to something

[dusk patrol]

Stranger in a Strange Land is wild

[humble shoal]

No thanks she is dead now

[viral halo]

Read uncensored dyostoyevsky books

[dusk patrol]

But I like how much he diverged around

[dapper gyro]

In the book, ones of the character said that the entirely of carrying nuke and shoot around was only a facade to show the "success", when in reality, the bug can be destroyed much quicker.

[arctic talon]

Ngl brave new world was such a weird book to read

[storm jungle]

A man goons.

A slave obeys.

[arctic talon]

In like

My freshman year of high school

[outer wave]

What exactly makes Ayn Rand so awful? Never read her book

[opaque coyote]

I love how BioShock is more famous and that's because it literally parodies every facet of Atlas Shrugged' society

[dusk patrol]

That doesn’t change how they’re OP as hell

[humble shoal]

That book was dull as hell tbh

[storm jungle]

Its a long rabbit hole

[arctic talon]

She’s, weird

[storm jungle]

shes basically just Andrew Ryan from biosohck

[arctic talon]

Read her Wikipedia page

[humble shoal]

Worst high school book read was wuthering heights

[arctic talon]

Tbh

[storm jungle]

aka a total fucking moron

[outer wave]

Oh

Oh.

[storm jungle]

also yeah just read her wiki

[dusk patrol]

Ayn Rand had some fucking issues

[storm jungle]

"some"

[arctic talon]

Understatement

[storm jungle]

lol

[arctic talon]

Of the century

[dusk patrol]

She was just, very bitter

[storm jungle]

Again, total cunt

[green loom]

I live in the world depressed soviet writers write about

[crystal forum]

explain it for me please

[opaque coyote]

I think it was interesting tbh.

Because despite it being a dystopian hellhole, it does have the leader actually argue for it.

[arctic talon]

East Europe moment

[viral halo]

I'll give you one example: she believed that special needs people needed to be hidden away or gotten rid of as their appearance leads to (in her words iirc) a profound psychological effect that damages children

[storm jungle]

^

[opaque coyote]

Which is interesting

[arctic talon]

I didn’t find it that dull ngl

It’s such an odd book

I enjoyed it

[outer wave]

Wow that is cunty ass behavior

[viral halo]

And we have an entire functioning discord channel here of special needs people so get fucked ayn rand

[humble shoal]

I liked the first part, went down hill for me after the zoo

[opaque coyote]

Also had children casually having sex which almost made me throw the book away

[storm jungle]

Also here, for a semi-quick summary

https://youtu.be/F9M2VLGvG1k

[arctic talon]

It is a dystopia

[storm jungle]

very much glad shes 6 feet under lol

[arctic talon]

[green loom]

Well we ARE hidden from wider society....

[storm jungle]

again at least she gave us bioshock

and uh

her surrogate character got his face bashed in with a golf club

[humble shoal]

TBH hiding them away is better than what Margaret Sanger wanted to do

[storm jungle]

so that was nice

[green loom]

To the camps with you!

[viral halo]

If you guys actually want to read some moral peak read this side of paradise by F scott fitzgerald

[dusk patrol]

I’d recommend just reading the Wikipedia summary, or more correctly reading it, but the general idea of about people on the moon rebelling against the earth government who controls them and how they learn to survive after they break free

[storm jungle]

What about Red Rising

[dusk patrol]

Which obviously is where the name comes in

[crystal forum]

dont read it. she's the definition of somebody who was so fucked by the soviet union that they decide to go get fucked by the US. she was propped up by the wealthy because they're desperate to have anything approve their hoarding of wealth.

also Reagan liked her

[opaque coyote]

Yeah I know. Just grossed me out a little too much so I kinda only spedread those parts.

Luckily it's only like two pages and it's never really mentioned again. Thank god

[viral halo]

Honestly may be my favorite scifi series I've ever read

hold on let me post some edits

[storm jungle]

I read the summary

[arctic talon]

It is disgusting

It’s meant to like

[storm jungle]

its pretty uh woke

[arctic talon]

Set the premise

That this is a horrible place

[viral halo]

I FUCKING LOVE RED RISING

[vagrant fox]

Red Rising is fantastic and good and anyone who badmouths it should be crucified

[opaque coyote]

Yeah I know. That's the point. I do understand that and appreciate that.

It just disgusted me beyond just y'know... Reading it.

It's like how some people don't like horror movies yk

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[outer wave]

Almost feel bad for her just cuz of everyone fucking with her, but from what everyone said in here, yeah I kinda don't feel bad

[storm jungle]

Siggy has consumed another one

[crystal forum]

she also died poor which people like to make fun of for some reason

[humble shoal]

It is a logical extreme of the society

[storm jungle]

Do not feel bad for her.

[arctic talon]

Regan looking up in hell when the piss starts trickling down on him

[storm jungle]

She had everything coming to her lmao

[opaque coyote]

I do still think it's a good book though. Just that part made me almost want to put it away by impulse

[dusk patrol]

With Heinlein the only reason people think he’s some fascist dude is they literally can’t conceive that you could write a book which shows an ideal fascist society, which Heinlein himself didn’t think was feasible, and not agreed with Facism.

Same as Heinlein writing other ideals societies for other ideologies but he was mostly libertarian. He rarely wrote what he explicitly agreed with.

[crystal forum]

she'd be nothing if wealthy fucks didn't cling to her book since it validates them, and in the end kissing ass didn't keep her from poverty

[viral halo]

I'm on dark age right now and I legit get so hyped I have to run around outside like a dog

[humble shoal]

The 1984 animal farm combo book slapped

[storm jungle]

Animal Farm is PEAK

my favorite comedy book

[viral halo]

animal farm slaps, 1984 is a bit of a snoozer

[storm jungle]

1984 is good for the concepts but not much else

[arctic talon]

I had to read 1984, brave new world and like

[viral halo]

The bad guy rant when winston is getting tortured in 1984 is fucking AMAZING

[arctic talon]

Some other dystopian book

[humble shoal]

Its mainly both books together

[arctic talon]

In high school

lol

[dusk patrol]

Brave New World was the prophetic one anyways

[viral halo]

"the future of humanity is a boot stamped upon its face"

[storm jungle]

lmaoooo

[arctic talon]

I forgot which one

[humble shoal]

Fareingheit snore51

[arctic talon]

Nah

Not that one

[dusk patrol]

Dude that book

[storm jungle]

I thought it was tesla tiremark

[dusk patrol]

Was so on the ball

[arctic talon]

It was an communist dystopia for the last one

[crystal forum]

that is not why i think he's a fascist but ok

[arctic talon]

I forgot which one

[vagrant fox]

but I read it last year 🫃

[viral halo]

Catcher in the Rye SUCKS, the only good thing that came out of it was John Lennon getting smoked

[arctic talon]

It’s not atlas shrugged

[dusk patrol]

Why do you think he’s fascist then?

[arctic talon]

It was loke

[dusk patrol]

Cause Verhooven read half a chapter and declared it?

[arctic talon]

Some random ass book i have literally never heard or thought about

[opaque coyote]

I do like how even while reading the book, the world is still fairly unknown.

Is Airstrip One the only city or are there other airstrips?

Is the world really like a dystopia or is it just isolated in Britain?

You don't know, and that's the horrifying part

[viral halo]

Are we having the starship troopers fascism vs satire argument in the background

[opaque coyote]

Also the 10 minutes of hate

[humble shoal]

But bro I wanna just be the guy making sure the children dont fall off the cliff

[storm jungle]

Yeah we are

[dusk patrol]

Somehow

[viral halo]

Boringgggggggggg

[storm jungle]

Give us your notes Siggy

[dusk patrol]

People have bad reading comprehension

[storm jungle]

NOW

[arctic talon]

Kind of insane tbh

[outer wave]

I actually kinda liked that one; the usage of unreliable narrator is pretty well done there and the main character, for as whiny as he is, is a lil relatable

[viral halo]

Heinlein fucking loved nukes

[dusk patrol]

He did

[humble shoal]

One book that I was forced to read was things fall apart

[arctic talon]

Nukes are good

They stop wars

[dusk patrol]

He liked his gizmos

[winter vessel]

isn't that the book where the author was just a total bitch?

[arctic talon]

[humble shoal]

25% of that book was the word yam

[humble shoal]

So did the us govt at the time

[arctic talon]

Anyone who dislikes nukes has clearly never thought about it longer then a few minutes

I’m only half joking

[storm jungle]

We gotta create a wall of radiation on kore-

[humble shoal]

There was a plan to strap nukes to paratroopers chests to place as behind the lines explosives

[dusk patrol]

I think they’re one of the more interesting concepts

[arctic talon]

Okay mcarthur

[viral halo]

Spineless freak

hates holden caufield

[dusk patrol]

The idea that something that powerful can cause peace

[viral halo]

wanted to beat his brains in

[humble shoal]

Mcarthur can suck a dick

[viral halo]

Yea the United States

[arctic talon]

Tbh Nukes are exactly that

[humble shoal]

And so can his admiral ancestor

[viral halo]

He's goated

[dusk patrol]

Yeah

It’s a wild idea

[humble shoal]

Military aristocracy headass

[arctic talon]

Anyways, MAD moment

[dusk patrol]

You become too powerful so you can’t fight

[humble shoal]

He makes patton look sane

[opaque coyote]

Although now we are constantly paranoid about the world fucking ending and if somebody is actually crazy enough to fulfill MAD

[vagrant fox]

Here is McArthur depicted as a god of war in some South Korean hick village, meaning nukes are good

[dusk patrol]

That’s the gambit isn’t it

[arctic talon]

What the fuck lmao

[dusk patrol]

Tbh if we had a way to close Pandora’s box I’d agreed we should but we can’t

[viral halo]

I LOVE AMERICAN HEGEMONY

[humble shoal]

He basically was so shit the military lost the ability to self regulate

[dusk patrol]

Nukes will exist

[opaque coyote]

Yeah unfortunately the current USA president doesn't give me much hope

[storm jungle]

Its not even the U.S

like not to get deep but

[arctic talon]

^

[winter vessel]

I only give credit to him out of Filipino Pride, a lot of filipinos do when I lived in the country in my youth

[storm jungle]

People will always find some way to kill each other

we suck

[arctic talon]

The US isn’t the biggest worry for nukes IMO

[storm jungle]

thats kinda it lol

[humble shoal]

Because he was such an ass eisenhower had to step over the joint chiefs of staff

[opaque coyote]

A lot of world leaders yeah

[viral halo]

He had basically won the Korean war until a bajillion chinese poured over the border and he got politically hogtied

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/nothing-ever-happens-chud-chudjak-soyjak-90-seconds-to-nothing-gif-9277709574191520604

[humble shoal]

To fire him

[arctic talon]

There’s places with way more instability politically

[dusk patrol]

If you’ll consult the board

[storm jungle]

Nothing ever happens

[opaque coyote]

India and Pakistan

[storm jungle]

looking at the U.S now

yeet

[viral halo]

Me neither and I voted for him three times

[humble shoal]

Bit he was the reason the bajillion chinese came

[dusk patrol]

Nothing is gonna happen

[storm jungle]

Siggy PLEASE

[viral halo]

Lmfao

[arctic talon]

Lol

[vagrant fox]

https://tenor.com/view/nothing-ever-happens-chud-chudjak-soyjak-90-seconds-to-nothing-gif-9277709574191520604

[storm jungle]

Idk man i got a lot of friends in the U.S thinking otherwise lol

[humble shoal]

Wouldnt matter if you didnt

[storm jungle]

especially with all the daily uhhh

[humble shoal]

County is super red

[storm jungle]

"developments"

[viral halo]

forgot we're neighbors

[dusk patrol]

Cool, and yet still

[outer wave]

If anything, from what I've been hearing, they're more likely to get nuked if things go as the president wants it to go

[dusk patrol]

Nothing will happen

I’m all in

[storm jungle]

Cool, but your opinion wasnt asked

[winter vessel]

its a craphole, but its MY craphole. Least it ain't as bad as Germany where they literally lock you up if you just badmouth any politician online

[arctic talon]

That’s hilarious lol

[storm jungle]

especially as a Sopranos extra

again

[viral halo]

we live a town over from each other lol

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/no-offense-sopranos-tony-sirico-paulie-walnuts-paulie-gaultieri-gif-13785385068137219467

[dusk patrol]

Neither was yours, yet here we are

[arctic talon]

Crazy

[rose thorn]

They removed pronouns from my college email

[storm jungle]

I mean yet you keep it going, so indeed here we are

guy is like a fish on a hook 24/7

[dusk patrol]

So do you so

[storm jungle]

So do you so too

[winter vessel]

is it Eternal bashing time?

[storm jungle]

When are you gonna just kiss me man

[viral halo]

You guys should get married

[dusk patrol]

Got em

[storm jungle]

I wish

[viral halo]

genetic experiment

[dusk patrol]

Destroyed

[storm jungle]

but he likes iron hands

[opaque coyote]

JD Vance should just vacation and never come back

[rose thorn]

so it’s harder to write emails now

[viral halo]

You could get your visa to the greatest country on earth

[humble shoal]

You know what they say about iron hands

[storm jungle]

Hes gonna get something else soon

[viral halo]

metal cocks

[humble shoal]

~~they have iron ~~

[dusk patrol]

We’re both half regarded so we would either have super genius kids or fully regards

[winter vessel]

me with K Bass

[outer wave]

My co--

[dusk patrol]

Betting on the later

[storm jungle]

The last thing i wanna do is come into Shithole 5000x, im gonna stay in Shithole 1000x

[green loom]

https://tenor.com/view/lore-master-helltaker-azazel-gif-21895785

[storm jungle]

I mean

when you are the dad yes

all those plastic fumes will ruin them

[dusk patrol]

I wish

[storm jungle]

[crystal forum]

i'd have to explain to you the nuances of political ideologies which you will simply ignore. he was a very hard man to pin down on beliefs which is why i dont use the term lightly.

right wing libertarians are infamous for falling to authoritarianism because it's such a vague ideology that espouses unbreakable belief in free will and autonomy. His issue is he believed a system could filter out incompetence and nepotism by letting the better workers move up in ranks, hence the militarism. it's a flawed view of
anarchism that's not applicable to real life, and will inevitable end in fascism when the "movers" of the world end up outfucking everybody else and closing the door behind them when they hold power.

[opaque coyote]

Azazel

[humble shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/turkey-man-angry-out-of-car-meme-fast-am-talking-gif-17285849

[arctic talon]

https://tenor.com/view/turkey-turkiye-kaan-ozdil-man-gif-19334490

[dusk patrol]

Ok but how does that all make him fascist

[storm jungle]

REAL.

[winter vessel]

they don't need the glass to see.

[viral halo]

https://tenor.com/view/elitedangerous-capital-class-wall-of-text-elite-dangerous-gif-11450660747620922342

[winter vessel]

its just luck

[humble shoal]

Erdogan will make sure you do not crash

[dusk patrol]

Even if I agreed with the premise that liberation -> fascism

[storm jungle]

I'll take a discord ban countrywide over like... any policy the U.S does currently.

[dusk patrol]

He himself wasn’t

[opaque coyote]

If I ever retire, I'm gonna move to some Asian country where my buying power is multiplied and then stay there

[arctic talon]

Why are Europeans so much better at Nationalsim then Americans in general

[crystal forum]

cryptofascist is what i called him

[opaque coyote]

Apple pie

[vagrant fox]

do you own a fez

[arctic talon]

[viral halo]

Colonizer

[crystal forum]

he wont admit it and he maybe deluded himself into believing himself

[dusk patrol]

That sounds like a lazy way to just call someone fascist when they aren’t

[humble shoal]

Because they are allowed to have borders

[arctic talon]

LOL

[crystal forum]

if it quacks like a duck

[vagrant fox]

why are you posting these semen demons

[winter vessel]

Europe is a black hole

cavedivers: Yum

[dusk patrol]

Ok where has Heinlein been Fascist

[green loom]

I'll have you know Azazel is only pretending to be a demon

[humble shoal]

Also european nationalism caused a couple of issues

[arctic talon]

The Americas need to be more nationalistic smh

Look at Asia and Europe

[humble shoal]

Like when some random guy got assasinated

[arctic talon]

LOL

[dusk patrol]

Besides “Libertarian ends up with fascism” which is a huge leap

[winter vessel]

not a good spectrum

[arctic talon]

It’s a funny one

[vagrant fox]

It's coming back babeeey, post unified EU and gaullism propaganda now

[outer wave]

Idk, recently it seems Canadians have gotten more nationalistic as of late

[arctic talon]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-deployed-alien-cat-gif-10264569409756179931

[crystal forum]

if i wanted to say that i'd have just used one phrase

[dusk patrol]

Mfw I have Europeans calling me racist for wanting to change our immigration laws to ones half as strict as their own countries

[arctic talon]

LOL

[outer wave]

Patriotic? Idk something like that

[arctic talon]

Nationalism and patriotism are the same thing

[green loom]

The average European is pretty racist

[winter vessel]

I remember someone saying "What is one thing france is good at?" in my history class, to which one classmate says "Getting their ass kicked twice?"

[dusk patrol]

But Disciple

[outer wave]

I was taught they were different things; you can be proud of where you're from without putting other countries, much less ethnicities, down

[dusk patrol]

During the 1800s they won a lot

[storm jungle]

I mean

is that wrong

[dusk patrol]

No, but it also doesn’t matter

[storm jungle]

I mean no it does

its their history lol

[vagrant fox]

They won for basically a thousand years

[green loom]

They got their ass beat in like, WW2 and maybe Vietnam

[storm jungle]

but also like

[dusk patrol]

Napoleon ain’t around anymore bucko

[storm jungle]

this is coming from an american so

https://tenor.com/view/turkish-man-gif-14733745593859528159

[arctic talon]

Not even arguably

They did lose Vietnam

Like everyone else

Who’s entered that country

[storm jungle]

"Lose" is underplaying it

also didnt they like just give up and leave

[arctic talon]

Vietnam has literally never been conquered afik

[dusk patrol]

They left us with the ball, the dorks

[opaque coyote]

https://tenor.com/view/oopie-goopie-hsr-tribbie-tribbie-hsr-tribbie-gif-3176559744909034998

[arctic talon]

Same as every other nation who’s tried invading Nam yes

[outer wave]

They were in Vietnam for like 10 years or so and left after nothing happened

[storm jungle]

I have a vietnamese friend so believe i hear a lot of stories

[green loom]

Nothing ever happens

[viral halo]

Yea, it was a process called Vietnamization that we did to give south vietnam the responsbility of the war back and flee bc of how unstable we were at home

Vietnam is the afghanistan of asia

[winter vessel]

honestly the only country that's got my respect for "resilience", is Vietnam. Those fuckers have endured, they ain't messing around when China tried to get a little close to their fishing boats

[storm jungle]

Western nations not fuck up everything challenge.

[arctic talon]

Well

[storm jungle]

at least America did better

right

[dusk patrol]

Asia does it fine itself

[crystal forum]

americans still butthurt that france didn't come do warcrimes with them in iraq

[dusk patrol]

To be fair

[opaque coyote]

Russia be like

"The Americans are invading a country and fighting a guerilla war? I want to do so too!"

Goes to Afghanistan

[vagrant fox]

Tried to hold on for a bit, decided it wasn't worth it and left after some fighting

[arctic talon]

I mean if we talk about known atrocities marginally

[storm jungle]

Smart move honestly lol

[arctic talon]

💀

[storm jungle]

YEP.

but hey

[crystal forum]

remember freedom fries eternal

your country is so cool

[arctic talon]

Afghanistan and Vietnam are both funny nations

[outer wave]

Has the US done any wars that they won in as of the past 30 years?

[arctic talon]

That people have tried to invade

Repeatedly

[storm jungle]

ok but have you considered, Europe bad