"it says here you allowed an unregistered individual to proceed down routine 32a8"
#40k-lore-chat
opaque coyote
Not as much as regular Imperial bureaucracy tbh
Probably stopped after he finally sat down
dusk patrol
There was some turmoil but that’s what the Primarch’s Scourge was for
late osprey
yeah when he started re-writing it, but those first few days must've been brutal
opaque coyote
Oh definitely
rose thorn
dusk patrol
He basically just wiped out all opposition and established himself fast
dusk patrol
Mag no one cares about some dork sub
opaque coyote
Dude she has like
dusk patrol
It’s not fanart also
rose thorn
Mag no one cares about some dork sub
ITS FUNNY
opaque coyote
The exact same shade
opaque coyote
He basically just wiped out all opposition and established himself fast
Nothing like blood to grease the gears
dusk patrol
He did a little bit of power seizing
late osprey
sometimes you need to go through the proper channels and adhere to the rule of law
sometimes, you just need to shoot your way out
opaque coyote
I still think that one Berserker that literally charged in to kill Guilliman was based
Man literally saw him wake up and was like
"WITNESS ME"
late osprey
Man literally saw him wake up and was like
LETS FUCKING GOOOO
opaque coyote
Man didn't even stare like the rest. He just went for it
late osprey
you know in retrospect, what was horus's problem?
he was so bothered about humans taking over after the GC, but did HE want to check boxes and sign signatures forever?
storm jungle
Ignore him mag i like these funny posts
as ever i hope everyone using horusgalaxy gets hit by a train
spring cairn
blackwashed lol
storm jungle
Me when i wanna be racist over a badly painted skin
spring cairn
do they say this about ppl who get tans at the beach too
hallow saddle
thats one of the most "restarted" things ive seen to the point where i hope its just a joke
storm jungle
Its not.
horusgalaxy is like basically a racist, sexist, homophobic subreddit
i really wish it just got nuked but alas
hallow saddle
making absolutely everything about the same few topics
storm jungle
Woke.... 😔
hallow saddle
getting absolutely wound up by the same stuff
spring cairn
at least the anti-woke obsession has started to be so noxious even some of my friends who were adjacent to that are starting to hate it
hallow saddle
i do flick onto it sometimes when theres a particular outrage du jour
spring cairn
incremental progress
tough haven
Woke.... 😔
Those teenagers that fight freddy kruger be like
hallow saddle
like female stodes and more recently a (made up) wraithbone retcon
(that's made up)
opaque coyote
horusgalaxy is like basically a racist, sexist, homophobic subreddit
As soon as I saw an AI generated photo of a rainbow Chaos Space Marine claiming to worship the LGBTQ+
opaque coyote
I clicked off and decided that was enough social media for today
tough haven
As soon as I saw an AI generated photo of a rainbow Chaos Space Marine claiming ...
My favorite chaos god
opaque coyote
storm jungle
It legit pissed me off
tough haven
Gender
storm jungle
and like, thats a rarity
opaque coyote
It legit pissed me off
I was just fucking confused
hallow saddle
(these chuds have never read an eldar codex ever)
opaque coyote
Like why
storm jungle
I was just fucking confused
I think what pissed me off more was the poster's attitude of:
"I dont hate homos I just wish they stayed where they came from. I'm not hostile towards them."
Like, what the- 😭
late osprey
at least the anti-woke obsession has started to be so noxious even some of my fr...
KCD 2 outrage has done wonders for that
opaque coyote
Stayed where they came from
tough haven
I think what pissed me off more was the poster's attitude of:
"I dont hate homo...
Where did they come from bro?
opaque coyote
You mean EVERY COUNTRY on Earth??
storm jungle
Where did they come from bro?
I mean these people always existed
tough haven
Inside us
tough haven
Sexuality is a spectrum
late osprey
"KCD2 is woke now. You can choose to have gay sex and... you have to protect Jews from being massacred"
opaque coyote
But wait... Actually I found it. The secret origin of Gay People
We are from the underground lands of the Gay Castle...
tough haven
I think these people might be A little afraid of a part of themselves
opaque coyote
tough haven
and not know how to express it other than conversion
storm jungle
"KCD2 is woke now. You can choose to have gay sex and... you have to protect Jew...
the word "woke" is gonna haunt me to my grave
opaque coyote
I think these people might be *A little* afraid of a part of themselves
Unironically, I thought the stereotype of like
tough haven
I think these people might be *A little* afraid of a part of themselves
Afraid of homoerotic relations, Homo-phobic, if you will
I coined that rn
tough haven
No its real
opaque coyote
But as time goes on
Yeah I'm convinced they are secretly gay
At least like 70% of them
opaque coyote
An anti-gay Republican politician I think had like
storm jungle
^
opaque coyote
Gigabytes of gay porn
storm jungle
We had this talk before
opaque coyote
And had sex with men
storm jungle
ive seen a lot of white supremacists that fantasize about banging black people lmao
its a very funny thing
tough haven
like hating intolerance, we all have that within us, so for most people its disgusting, cause it reminds us of our darkest impulses
opaque coyote
ive seen a lot of white supremacists that fantasize about banging black people l...
"Don't ask the white supremacist what race his wife is"
storm jungle
REAL.
opaque coyote
Honestly I just wonder how the fuck that even happens
Like is it a case of like
"I can fix him?"
Like I know some of them are probably just in it for the money
spring cairn
It's a meme more than anything
opaque coyote
But like
opaque coyote
If it's a loving relationship, which does happen, how tf does that happen??
late osprey
If it's a loving relationship, which does happen, how tf does that happen??
based on historical cases its a mixture of many things
opaque coyote
The political compass sucks in general
late osprey
"i can fix him", "you're the exception", etc etc
lovecraft had a jewish wife who did, apparently, end up fixing him
late osprey
he was known to walk back on a lot of his worst takes in his older age
opaque coyote
he was known to walk back on a lot of his worst takes in his older age
It's actually kinda sad that he died at like 40?
He genuinely seemed to change
And be regretful
tough haven
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/330787019389141003/1340010348241096734/ut...
Tech priests be like: We must preserve the knowledge of the ancients of this STC we lost 8,000,000 lives obtaining!
The knowledge in question:
tough haven
And be regretful
Holy shit character growth!!!
opaque coyote
Then we wouldn't even get his stories
tough haven
People with differently pure blood
He was just afraid of the british, which is fair
spring cairn
lovecraft had a jewish wife who did, apparently, end up fixing him
fix him how
opaque coyote
Which tbf, definitely were based on his internal fears.
spring cairn
was that before or after the cat
tough haven
all the stories are just about the british
opaque coyote
Like especially the fish people story
tough haven
Which tbf, definitely were based on his internal fears.
All art is a mirror
late osprey
fix him how
exactly how i said
tough haven
Like especially the fish people story
Fr
tough haven
fix him how
With hammers and such
opaque coyote
was that before or after the cat
Apparently his dad actually named it and he just kept it
spring cairn
exactly how i said
did she make him rename his cat Blueberry or smth
late osprey
did she make him rename his cat Blueberry or smth
i dont know, i just know he gave up on the antisemitism and such
opaque coyote
fix him how
Basically later in his life, he actually expressed regret over his views. Calling his previous views immature
And actually seemed to be happier because of it
tough haven
And actually seemed to be happier because of it
Crazy
if only chuds learned about this one simple trick
as it turns out, its not women, or other races, or trans people, or whatever group you've been duped into directing your hate towards thats making your life unpleasant or unhappy, its you. Its always been you
opaque coyote
He called his old policies and beliefs Fascism, called himself a socialist, and in practice advocated for what amounted to a strain of technocracy, only one that didn't disregard culture. An educated governing class overseeing federal jobs programs committed to living wages and relevant and fulfilling work to every unemployed person in the country.
tough haven
Get some darkest dungeon type wisdom up in here
storm jungle
as it turns out, its not women, or other races, or trans people, or whatever gro...
or you can always hate the government
rose thorn
as ever i hope everyone using horusgalaxy gets hit by a train
Lmao
late osprey
as it turns out, its not women, or other races, or trans people, or whatever gro...
everything is personal at the end of the day
tough haven
or you can always hate the government
Well yeah, but they actually kinda do that
like have the power to do so
its ok to hate rich people
opaque coyote
Well yeah, but they actually kinda do that
Just on the wrong things
tough haven
I see the irony
tough haven
And I see it
late osprey
NOBODY likes the government or rich people
tough haven
"THE WOKE GOVERNMENT SUPPORTS DEI!!!"
DEI when it provides services and forces corpos to provide for the disabled they employ
late osprey
thats the nature of what it means to be radical
spring cairn
i hate everyone because i'm evil personally
opaque coyote
Ironically enough the Government fanned the flames of LGBT hate even more.
late osprey
hating what's in power
opaque coyote
Like I don't think it's been this public like 15 years ago
I'm not saying that Homophobia didn't exist
tough haven
I love people getting up in arms for stupid causes they dont even really know why
tough haven
Like I don't think it's been this public like 15 years ago
Oh no its definitely been goaded and encouraged
btw national park service removed all mentions of transgender folks and the T in LGBTQ from stonewall memorials and official stuff relating to it
late osprey
But it hasn't been this loud until recently
theres a lot of social politics that've taken the front stage compared to 15 years ago
opaque coyote
Oh no its definitely been goaded and encouraged
Yeah and politicians are definitely taking advantage of it
"It's these damned gay people that are ruining your life. Now then, time to buy a new yacht."
opaque coyote
btw national park service removed all mentions of transgender folks and the T in...
To say that sucks is an understatement
sly ivy
ur the anarch
(idk what the anarch is i haven't read this book but it sounds like anarchist)
opaque coyote
btw national park service removed all mentions of transgender folks and the T in...
Also
💀
stuck arrow
gray umbra
Also
its ok, every day we strive to make cyberpunk/dystopian fiction a reality
TIL about prospera
tough haven
Yeah and politicians are definitely taking advantage of it
"It's these damned ...
Thats waht I'm saying, these people are just so easily turned towards vulnerable groups just because its easy to have a target so people dont recognize existing problems
friendly reminder, the CIA has a free declassified guide on improvised devices of a certain variety
tough haven
its ok, every day we strive to make cyberpunk/dystopian fiction a reality
I swear people take it as a challenge
tough haven
friendly reminder, the CIA has a free declassified guide on improvised devices o...
also a certain spicy cocktail is very easy and cheap to make and use
tough haven
i hate everyone because i'm evil personally
OK but thats based cause you just own it
theres no pretense
late osprey
Thats waht I'm saying, these people are just so easily turned towards vulnerable...
it's very much a chicken-or-egg situation
it's still in the air whether or not the beliefs were already there or if they were manufactured, but what is known is that the key reason working class vote against their economic interests is because they value social interests higher
tough haven
What I cant stand is the hypocrisy
these groups constantly cry out about the opposition attempting to do the very things that they are doing to others
late osprey
we've never lived in a rational world, unfortunately
tough haven
No, we just have to push back against it as best we can
we cant allow it to exist unchecked, if we cant ensure it does not exist
late osprey
we know american zeitgeist swings like a pendulum every couple decades
it's actually quite surreal how consistently it does that
tough haven
Existence and aversity are one in the same
late osprey
the question is really just which side you suppose the culture is on the pendulum and act accordingly
tough haven
Yup
Or instead of picking a side, you choose to represent certain neutral ideals that are important to you, thats also an option
late osprey
less an option in america thanks to how the politics are structured
but ideally yeah
american politics for a voter is essentially a questionnaire of what policies you care about the most
since you can't build the perfect buffet that represents you
gray umbra
culturally its a rat race to make as much money as possible to mitigate the impact as much as possible
even then that doesnt really work
tough haven
Alternatively, eat the rich
weapons are quite common in the US
as relatively recent news has shown
gray umbra
nah we're just billionaires that havent made it yet lol
late osprey
yeah, militarize society more than it already is
tough haven
people always say "Teach a man to fish and he'll feed himself for a lifetime" but they leave out "and it would be nice to give him a fishing rod too"
late osprey
that wont go horribly for people at all lol
gray umbra
people always say "Teach a man to fish and he'll feed himself for a lifetime" bu...
we'll just sell the fishing rod to him at a premium
and at a subscription
tough haven
but straightforward violence is so much easier than large scale societal change, and waiting for people to be better
I think history has taught us that violence has statistically, always been the answer /j
late osprey
Im only half joking
here's food for thought: there hasn't been a single successful uprising that didn't have collusion from the upper class
tough haven
here's food for thought: there hasn't been a single successful uprising that did...
Oh yeah for sure
late osprey
all of the Great Revolutions had people in the Rich aiding and abetting
tough haven
We should get them to work for us, and then stab the rich in the back afterwards before they can do the same to us
late osprey
proles just can't ever win the shootouts
tough haven
all of the Great Revolutions had people in the Rich aiding and abetting
It makes sense, what better way to ensure you survive the uprising, AND get the write the narrative
late osprey
It makes sense, what better way to ensure you survive the uprising, AND get the ...
it's more a matter of those revolutions being great opportunities to get even more power in the new regime
if you don't like how you're being treated in the status quo, nothing like a bit of populism to brute force past it
gray umbra
if only there was a nice turkish man with psychic powers to uplift us as a species
tough haven
if only there was a nice turkish man with psychic powers to uplift us as a speci...
Nah, the optimal society is a meritocracy of "How good are you at avoiding being shot/shooting people that dont like you"
actually better idea
fight with swords and axes and such
much more entertaining
I think I'm describing the hunger games
late osprey
that's just the sith empire from star wars
gray umbra
eh the invention of firearms was always an equalizer
stuck arrow
Nah, the optimal society is a meritocracy of "How good are you at avoiding being...
So Darktide
tough haven
Politician makes policy changes that the general populace is against? No problem, kill them with swords and axes and such
stuck arrow
I need to learn how to slide dodge irl
late osprey
eh the invention of firearms was always an equalizer
all the firearm did was allow the ruling class to get out of fighting their own battles
tough haven
all the firearm did was allow the ruling class to get out of fighting their own ...
Exactly
gray umbra
NRA: 
tough haven
There are few politicians that would do well in a straight fight
not that I would either
late osprey
if we eliminate gunpowder from physics, politicians would have to lead their own armies again
tough haven
but I'm also not a politician
late osprey
and half of our wars would have to stop early because they drowned in a ditch or something
stuck arrow
Totally worked fine for Nostromo
tough haven
if we eliminate gunpowder from physics, politicians would have to lead their own...
Alright, i have a solution, I bet you cant guess what it is
gray umbra
i guess what i was getting at was might makes right isnt the greatest either
late osprey
no its terrible lmao
tough haven
Kill the people who makes guns, with swords and axes and such
late osprey
it removes the amount of people the elite need to control society
tough haven
i guess what i was getting at was might makes right isnt the greatest either
no it really isnt
dapper gyro
What the heck is going on here...
late osprey
instead of having to appease a bunch of middle-classers to fight for them, they can just directly brutalize their constituents
tough haven
What the heck is going on here...
A little light radicalization, a little potential sedition
late osprey
a little bit of LARP wish fulfillment is one of the 40k fandom's time-honored passtimes.
tough haven
instead of having to appease a bunch of middle-classers to fight for them, they ...
well yeah, but swords and axes and such limit the amount of violence one man can cause
rocky gale
In ancient times when the rulers became too unbearable the peasants would just leave. Happened in Rome a couple of times during the Republican era, the entire population would just leave the city and refuse to come back until the leaders stopped being dicks
tough haven
In ancient times when the rulers became too unbearable the peasants would just l...
Based
we should do that
oh wait]
dapper gyro
Im larping right now and it is both fun and horrible.
tough haven
we have no where to flee that isnt dicks
tough haven
a little bit of LARP wish fulfillment is one of the 40k fandom's time-honored pa...
Yeah I'm aware that nothing I am proposing works, its just fun to joke about
late osprey
well yeah, but swords and axes and such limit the amount of violence one man can...
that doesn't reduce a ruler's control over the populace though
gray umbra
you could always go to prospera and then pull a frank fontaine
tough haven
99% of revolutionaries quit before they finally figure out civilization for real this time
late osprey
it wasn't real communism
stuck arrow
Become Necron. Have a panic attack when you remember what an itch was.
tough haven
I think the real draw of using violence to "solve" your problems is that we wish large systemic and complex issues could be so easily resolved with ease of killing, and with the finality of death. Its much more appealing to think that your problem can be solved with a sword, and not more abstract, riskier and less immediate options
late osprey
my politics is whatever is against post-8th Custodes law
late osprey
I think the real draw of using violence to "solve" your problems is that we wish...
the meme is that, strictly speaking, politics CAN be solved with the sword, it just requires such brutality that anyone with a conscience would call it utter inhumanity
but like in the ancient world, making pillars out of the skulls of razed cities was actually effective
tough haven
the meme is that, strictly speaking, politics CAN be solved with the sword, it j...
Well, not long term exactly
late osprey
shrimply be ready for exterminations beyond the likes of which anyone has ever seen
tough haven
usually it comes back to bite you
gray umbra
shrimply
tough haven
live by the sword die by the sword kinda shit
late osprey
usually it comes back to bite you
partisanship comes from a degree of mercy and common humanity, part of why its a fairly modern phenomenon
so if you're a pure-evil psychopath, you can quite literally kill enough people that they'll stop fighting
worked for the Big E, to bring this back to 40k
stuck arrow
people arent ready to commit to it yet
Destroy the internet 
we'll see how long society lasts without being able to commiserate over fire memes.
gray umbra
there was some lawyer from chicago who actually called out what the internet would become
so it would probably be a good thing
me personally
i enjoy my slop
late osprey
if i didnt have the internet, i wouldnt know about post-8th custodes lore
so there's one reason to destroy it
ignorance is bliss
stuck arrow
dusk patrol
stuck arrow
https://tenor.com/view/will-smith-spaghetti-ai-generated-ai-weird-gif-2144490847...
This the kinda shit you see in the deep warp.
wintry scarab
When marines have these sort of eye monocle things, is that a helmet attachment or is to because they have an implant and the helmet is build to support the implant?
opaque coyote
99% of revolutionaries quit before they finally figure out civilization for real...
I remember a Taliban officer complaining about his administration position
late osprey
When marines have these sort of eye monocle things, is that a helmet attachment ...
that's a really good question, IIRC it's usually the former instance
opaque coyote
Because surprisingly enough governing is far more boring compared to
Literally just shooting people
late osprey
since i could swear i remember cases where space marines with that helmet design take off their helmet
maybe just hallucination though
languid meadow
I was gonna comment on the eye thing but the thing Laati brought up made me find this
but yeah I remember seeing marines with the ocular thing take off a normal helmet Istg I saw it somewhere
late osprey
if you do what you love, you never have to work a day in your life
guess nobody ever told the jihadis that
arctic talon
When marines have these sort of eye monocle things, is that a helmet attachment ...
iirc its usually an augmentic support but sometimes its telescopic or for sightfinding
I.E like the devestators
late osprey
ostensibly its the ones that AREN'T carrying the big-guns that are supposed to identify targets
stuck arrow
Weird that you'd need it with helmet auspex and whatnot. But rule of cool probably. I haven't read enough spess marens.
rose thorn
i feel like space mairnes dont really use cherubs anymore
late osprey
they do, theyre all over the place in SM2 as well
stuck arrow
Confused and horrified all the newcomers
tough haven
Confused and horrified all the newcomers <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
Good
the imperium is not good
stuck arrow
No u
late osprey
i like how the cherub were around way, way, WAY before it was lore that they were vat-grown
there was a significant period there where it was just like "yeah they make babies into servitors get over it"
stuck arrow
Seems inefficient but I'm not a Martian tech crackhead
arctic talon
i feel like space mairnes dont really use cherubs anymore
They were only in a single 40k SM mini tbf
Which is weird with how common they are in marine art
arctic talon
ngl they should have kept the baby servitor stuff lol
Cherubs are already creepy little things
arctic talon
no issue with making them more horrifying
not sure where the dick measuring between Trench Crusade and 40k came from
lol
late osprey
no issue with making them more horrifying
it's a Green Imperium
arctic talon
Its like the weirdest fucking thing
stuck arrow
vat-grown hands
No sir, these are all-natural, free ranged hands. Lick the nubs and you can still taste the fear of God in them
arctic talon
its not like 40k isn't extremely horrific, people just refuse to read books lol
and then get mad when they read the Imperium doing something comically horrible
late osprey
No sir, these are all-natural, free ranged hands. Lick the nubs and you can stil...
factory-raised cherubim may be cheaper, but it just don't beat the real thing
tough haven
i like how the cherub were around way, way, WAY before it was lore that they wer...
I like how people think it being vat grown isnt also still horrific
stuck arrow
its not like 40k isn't extremely horrific, people just refuse to read books lol
I only learn my lore from grimdank shitposts 
tough haven
Yeah we created life just to make it into a torturous form
arctic talon
less since people feel disconnected from it
lol
but vatgrown are like
Fully sentient and sapient individuals
tough haven
and uh it uhh will never know anything else
arctic talon
The Afrial Strain are also vatgrown and they're fully sentient and sapient lol
late osprey
https://tenor.com/view/honest-word-its-honest-work-it-aint-much-it-aint-much-but...
here in Skull Farms we harvest only the most martyr-ready skulls from political prisoners
arctic talon
99.99% of all drukhari are vatgrown as well
arctic talon
here in Skull Farms we harvest only the most martyr-ready skulls from political ...
you mean dangerous traitors
smh
late osprey
our family-run agri-world has been in business for 500 years and our patented Skull Harvesting techniques are still second-to-none
arctic talon
my favorite lore bit in trench crusade
is defacing the Sultanates currency gets you uh
one moment
. The law severely punishes those who try to deface dinars by being hung and disemboweled simultaneously.
late osprey
i like the sultanate lore just has God spawning in a giant fuckoff attack on titan wall for them
its so out of left field lmao
stuck arrow
my favorite lore bit in trench crusade
Super soldier Jesus clones are mine
arctic talon
i like the sultanate lore just has God spawning in a giant fuckoff attack on tit...
mashallah
arctic talon
Super soldier Jesus clones are mine <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
The Jesus clone meat is fed to the super soldiers
akshully
The Jesus clones are uh
carved for meat
And one of them escaped
languid meadow
who up eating meta-christs
stuck arrow
i like the sultanate lore just has God spawning in a giant fuckoff attack on tit...
God works in mysterious ways.....?
arctic talon
ngl do you think if the Church invented time travel
they'd go back in time
and harvest more meat from the 1st meta christ
late osprey
vat-grown infant
languid meadow
I could be wrong but aren't the babies basically radios
languid meadow
lmao I love heretic lore so much
arctic talon
iirc some of them also aren't even like normal fucking babies lol
like they're some weird demon spawn
stuck arrow
"Just slap it a couple times if you can't get signal"
late osprey
i like the heretic lore has recruitment basically being a game of Infernal Chicken
late osprey
"bro just run into the pit of hell as far as you can lmao"
languid meadow
well technically there are no demons on the heretics side at least on earth
late osprey
what are the demons in the demon factions then?
arctic talon
Those aren't demons
those are uh really really really mutated humans
or a demon shoved into a human
languid meadow
There is non all "demonic" looking beings have mortal blood
arctic talon
demons aren't' allowed to fully manifest
stuck arrow
Daemons. With an e. Totally diff
arctic talon
same applies to Angels
Daemons and Demons are the same word
one is just older
lol
languid meadow
Path of the beast is a cool sub faction of the heretics
arctic talon
ngl
languid meadow
kind of the "fuck it we ball" mentality
late osprey
thats what im saying
arctic talon
Like WHY
stuck arrow
We regressed
late osprey
i want like a british faction thats all about machineguns
languid meadow
I mean maybe the Novgorod or other Rus factions might be but idk
plush mason
not sure where the dick measuring between Trench Crusade and 40k came from
iirc a lot of chuds went to trench crusade to "boycott woke GW" during the femstodies shit
arctic talon
💀
languid meadow
let me find the paladin short story
arctic talon
iirc a lot of chuds went to trench crusade to "boycott woke GW" during the femst...
this is implying Trench Crusade is not woke
languid meadow
oh yeah and the church has their own gate into hell but that's older lore so it might or might not get retconned in the far future
arctic talon
or rather the creators aren't
languid meadow
In the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Council of Saints in conjunction with the Synod of Strategic Prophecy has charged you to descend unto the Third Circle this day to seek out and destroy the demon-major Choronzon, Lord Mechanic of the Goetic Forge under Archduke Paimon."
arctic talon
spare osprey
iirc a lot of chuds went to trench crusade to "boycott woke GW" during the femst...
I FUCKIN HATE EM
bro
arctic talon
oh yeah and the church has their own gate into hell but that's older lore so it ...
huh
spare osprey
i saw this shit ass insta post
late osprey
i mean have you SEEN the babes in trench crusade?
arctic talon
what the fuck
late osprey
that's as male gaze as it gets
spare osprey
from this warhammer nerd
languid meadow
spare osprey
from this warhammer nerd
saying trench crusade is "unrealistic"
spare osprey
saying trench crusade is "unrealistic"
ik you ain't talkin
stuck arrow
that's as male gaze as it gets
I like the artillery witches big bombs
arctic talon
i mean have you SEEN the babes in trench crusade?
the Iron Sultanate stuff?
wait no
the fucking trench nun
LOL
I remember now
the shirtless one
arctic talon
Artillery Witch is like normal
languid meadow
Oh yeah the short story of when the gates of hell were first opened are pretty good and depressing
plush mason
the shirtless one
she is more than shirtless lol
late osprey
the heretic berserker is completely naked
plush mason
all she has is tigh high leg armor arm armor a helmet and a casity belt lol
spare osprey
saying trench crusade is "unrealistic"
LOSER
languid meadow
also I think the arty witches might be automatons made in hell iirc but like it's neither confirmed or denied
arctic talon
all she has is tigh high leg armor arm armor a helmet and a casity belt lol
literally no one around me plays them
so I wouldn't know LOL
stuck arrow
What's the crystal?
plush mason
literally no one around me plays them
i am just going by the art lol
arctic talon
There's plenty of normal looking woman in Trench Crusade
plush mason
ye
late osprey
like?
arctic talon
languid meadow
Oh yeah lmao I remember the name of the unit now
arctic talon
plush mason
the naked nuns are a special unit afaik
late osprey
those aren't women
plush mason
most of the stigmatis nuns are properly armored afaik
spare osprey
of all the criticisms
arctic talon
the Jannisary shown off in the art is a woman
late osprey
The Alchemist mini is a woman
where does it say that?
spare osprey
of all the criticisms
"unfunctional armour"
arctic talon
where does it say that?
the sculptors said it?
languid meadow
I know the Prussian tank splitter is a noblewoman
arctic talon
in the discord
crystal forum
LOSER
they really had to add the LGBT cup just to be sure we know who the bad people are
late osprey
the sculptors said it?
yeah, where? because there's nothing that ive seen in the books or the art
spare osprey
"unfunctional armour"
like you're a warhammer fan
arctic talon
someone asked if the Iron Sultanate had woman serving in military roles
arctic talon
the Alchemists is a woman
spare osprey
and industry plant?
opaque coyote
Really hates fun honestly
arctic talon
and the Azeb with a banner is a woman
spare osprey
brother it made 3 million dollars lol
dusk patrol
But Elite
spare osprey
Really hates fun honestly
truly
dusk patrol
I don’t see massive tits
arctic talon
what the fuck is your point
dusk patrol
How can I tell
arctic talon
genuinely
crystal forum
they mad that something was successful without ranting on twitter about woke
arctic talon
that TC doesn't have normal woman in it?
opaque coyote
for Trench Crusade
I mean aren't they fighting against literal hell?
arctic talon
Yes
plush mason
Whoever the fuck hates Trench Crusade just
its just a chud pissed off that the community and devs rejected their bullshit during the "boycott"
late osprey
that TC doesn't have normal woman in it?
yes
late osprey
to the point that i literally cannot post the majority of the female art
opaque coyote
On a pragmatic point of view you'd probably want anybody who CAN fight
arctic talon
It does have normal woman in it
languid meadow
(old Kickstarter image) if you like Janissaries IS had a sub faction revealed iirc where they buffed them
arctic talon
is my point
opaque coyote
to the point that i literally cannot post the majority of the female art
Truly, this has been a Trench Crusade
arctic talon
wtf do you want me to say lol
plush mason
On a pragmatic point of view you'd probably want anybody who CAN fight
yeah hell has been invading the world for centuries
arctic talon
a lot of the TC art is NSFW lol
spare osprey
and the first one is just cause tits
opaque coyote
yeah hell has been invading the world for centuries
Again
You'd want as many people fighting daemons as possible
late osprey
the actual artist of trench crusade has a very clear dimorphism to their art
crystal forum
women arent real because they wont date me
opaque coyote
Women aren’t real if they don’t have boob armor
Samus isn't real ig
spare osprey
women arent real because they wont date me
men won't date me either tbf
nobody is real
arctic talon
the Prussian unit
spare osprey
we're in the matrix
arctic talon
thing
languid meadow
also yeah thats a woman
Hauptmann Frederica von Goltz
opaque coyote
I can't
dusk patrol
Multiple of the Paladins are women
arctic talon
yeah but their lore says they're a woman
languid meadow
tank splitters
plush mason
most armor is unisex
arctic talon
Multiple of the Paladins are women
the one given example imo looks like shit
opaque coyote
yeah but their lore says they're a woman
Oh no what a tragedy
arctic talon
lol
plush mason
always has been
opaque coyote
dusk patrol
Well apparently if they don’t have that it doesn’t count
arctic talon
but the Iron Sultanate alchemist mini is explictly a woman
same with the Azeb banner holder
languid meadow
yeah I think Prussia is the only NA sub faction that really disallows women in combat units but if you're noble you can just "go fuck yourself I'm killing heretics"
opaque coyote
the boob plate is comical
Honestly I like to imagine like
A possessed suit of armor just gave themselves boob armor
crystal forum
transarmour
opaque coyote
Because they have to find a way to make people know they were a woman
arctic talon
this one
opaque coyote
transarmour
Yeah that could also be as well
crystal forum
he screamin
opaque coyote
But either way it'd be funny
dusk patrol
Not to mention being a communicant kinda fucks up your body
dusk patrol
To the point where your gender doesn’t matter
crystal forum
wait is this actually a thing people argue about
dusk patrol
Yes
opaque coyote
wait is this actually a thing people argue about
History nerds mainly
crystal forum
i thought it was a joke
plush mason
Not to mention being a communicant kinda fucks up your body
the tank hunter is the perfect example
dusk patrol
People have way too much time on their hands
And want to be upset over nothing
The need for outrage exceeds the supply
plush mason
fuckers look more like demons than humans
dusk patrol
Yeah
opaque coyote
Not to mention being a communicant kinda fucks up your body
I remember a similar thing from Dark Souls 1 specifically.
There was a fire keeper with a suit of brass armor that covers her body. And that's mainly because her entire body was literally burnt
arctic talon
@late osprey Like yes, I agree that I don't like the overly sexual stuff that much but that doesn't change the fact a vast majority of the minis are intended to be gender neutral and that some of them are female
dusk patrol
All communicants except like Paladins are fucked up
opaque coyote
So she wear the armor to hide it
languid meadow
"hey guys wanna see a cool trick"
tough haven
I mean who cares, it’s boob armor it’s only for fun
It’s not like it literally shows boobs
spare osprey
To the point where your gender doesn’t matter
tbf there were different minis
crystal forum
"hey guys wanna see a cool trick"
silly straw magic
tough haven
It’s just more a stylistic choice
opaque coyote
And all of the Fire keepers in Dark Souls are fucked up on some level
dusk patrol
I don’t care for the naked lady models either but I just don’t buy them
spare osprey
tbf there were different minis
both equally fucked
late osprey
<@104697331336642560> Like yes, I agree that I don't like the overly sexual stu...
my point is that the actual source material, mike franchina's art, is extremely sexualized on the women to the point its quite distracting
opaque coyote
Like in DS1 I think one literally just got her tongue cut out
late osprey
sure i dont doubt the game writers post-hoc made it more neutral
opaque coyote
And also legs broken
late osprey
but in the original trench crusade art its painfully obvious
dusk patrol
There’s like two sexualized pieces of art.
opaque coyote
Because medieval be medieval
languid meadow
Harpy boobs
late osprey
There’s like two sexualized pieces of art.
don't be dense
spare osprey
yeah i can't really think of anything crazy
dusk patrol
I’m not
plush mason
my point is that the actual source material, mike franchina's art, is extremely ...
i have only seen 2 examples of that
crystal forum
post it so we can judge
dusk patrol
And also who gives a fuck
plush mason
i wouldnt call the prussian tank buster sexualized
dusk patrol
He has lots of very gender neutral female art
late osprey
angel of mercy, heretic berserker, stigmatic nun, saint domnica
opaque coyote
And also who gives a fuck
POST IT FOR THE GLORY OF THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS!!
late osprey
to name just a few
late osprey
And also who gives a fuck
thats not the point
whether or not you care about it is your business
dusk patrol
I mean it is
crystal forum
angel of mercy, heretic berserker, stigmatic nun, saint domnica
saint dominica?
how is this sexualized
arctic talon
thats def sexualized a bit lol
crystal forum
what
late osprey
saint dominica?
how is skin-tight sexualized?
spare osprey
angel of mercy, heretic berserker, stigmatic nun, saint domnica
the angel of mercy?
late osprey
i dont know how to tell you this..
spare osprey
huh
arctic talon
the fact its skin tight is a bit weird
plush mason
^
arctic talon
the Angel of Mercy I literally do not think thats sexualized lol
crystal forum
lord have mercy it's the female body hide the children
late osprey
we also have the amazon warrior
spare osprey
idk is this not just a woman
tough haven
lord have mercy it's the female body hide the children
Fr fr
late osprey
and the boob-plate paladin
arctic talon
I think its fine
opaque coyote
idk is this not just a woman
Damn she has thighs
late osprey
you're allowed to feel however you like about it
but pretending it isn't sexualized is just goofy
plush mason
but the fact remains the artists makes more non sexualized women art than sexualized from what i have seen
late osprey
but the fact remains the artists makes more non sexualized women art than sexual...
not really
arctic talon
I mean
crystal forum
i do not see it being sexualized i think you watch too much porn
dusk patrol
If I was looking to be offended I’m sure I’d think it’s sexualized too
opaque coyote
but the fact remains the artists makes more non sexualized women art than sexual...
I generally don't think it matters.
Like who cares if the woman are sexy or not sexy
It doesn't matter
arctic talon
give me hot men as well
late osprey
i do not see it being sexualized i think you watch too much porn
desensitized take
arctic talon
late osprey
sorry
dusk patrol
The naked lady nuns are the main thing I agreed are goofy
tough haven
Do you think this discussion is had about male characters as often as it is female?
opaque coyote
give me hot men as well
Real
languid meadow
give me hot men as well
Here
arctic talon
Do you think this discussion is had about male characters as often as it is fema...
No because it doesn't come up
dusk patrol
The paladin one is kinda meh for me too
opaque coyote
Do you think this discussion is had about male characters as often as it is fema...
Occasionally but usually only in the anime circles
tough haven
The naked lady nuns are the main thing I agreed are goofy
Gorsh
dusk patrol
The rest are like, super basic
opaque coyote
And also usually by Fujoshi's
crystal forum
desensitized take
it's like calling a female gymnast "sexualized"
you're just uncomfortable seeing the female body it's evident
there is no sexual provocation in that image get a grip
opaque coyote
it's like calling a female gymnast "sexualized"
you're just uncomfortable seeing...
I mean isn't the gym a popular porn movie scene for that reason?
But I also do agree with that somewhat. Like
arctic talon
saint domnica is a bit weird imo
opaque coyote
It's the female form
languid meadow
Holy shit I forgot how much swag the witchburners have
dusk patrol
there is no sexual provocation in that image get a grip
She could literally wear that outfit in a lot of Islamic countries unironically
ornate estuary
<= this is too sexy. Them rashons
opaque coyote
saint domnica is a bit weird imo
Tbf a lot of Saints and popular Christian figures back then were weird.
Mother Teresa is a good example
dusk patrol
If we ignore the women who aren’t obviously women yeah cause you know
late osprey
if you want to be willfully ignorant or result to ad hominem them i cant help you, but its quite obvious with any side-by-side
opaque coyote
<:corpsestarch:1158882400659591250> <= this is too sexy. Them rashons
I came
(To eat food)
dusk patrol
I agreed that if I was looking to be upset and bad faith I’d find those problematic
late osprey
it's entirely your choice if you find it problematic
dusk patrol
Especially if I ignored all examples to the contrary
opaque coyote
Overall I really do not care.
Just as long as you don't make a 3 paragraph excuse for it
Quiet from MGSV moment
dusk patrol
Like the multiple pieces which are women in armor
arctic talon
Quiet from MGSV moment
Just say you wanted a mostly naked woman
don't be a coward Kojima
late osprey
Like the multiple pieces which are women in armor
where do you see one in that list?
opaque coyote
Like at least the Nier creator was honest
And also made it consistent with the men
dusk patrol
where do you see one in that list?
People have posted several for you
opaque coyote
10/10
late osprey
People have posted several for you
im asking you
spare osprey
where do you see one in that list?
amazon warrior
dusk patrol
And I answered
late osprey
the one with the boobie out for no reaosn?
crystal forum
what should i watch tonight
spare osprey
the one with literally no boobie?
dusk patrol
It doesn’t need to be obviously a woman
spare osprey
lolol
crystal forum
i have amazon prime
dusk patrol
That’s kinda the point
opaque coyote
what should i watch tonight
Batman Caped Crusader
late osprey
the one with literally no boobie?
i dont think you know what 'literally' means
languid meadow
spare osprey
i dont think you know what 'literally' means
brotha look at the art if you want
languid meadow
new episode was pretty good
opaque coyote
It's interesting if only as a new take on Batman tbh
crystal forum
https://tenor.com/view/mark-grayson-momento-triste-invencivel-gif-57129322511651...
already watched it
i love it
languid meadow
sucks they ||GOT RID OF "very"||
crystal forum
episode 5 will be sweet
spare osprey
the biggest thing in the artwork
opaque coyote
episode 5 will be sweet
Cecil be like
"Mark calm down"
As he sends his cyborgs made out of human corpses
arctic talon
Cecil doesn't know de escalation
spare osprey
its clearly there, just mutilated
it was removed, like thas the whole thing
plush mason
https://www.artstation.com/sirfrancisdrake
the amazon warrior is not at all sexualized
dusk patrol
Look at that sexy woman
late osprey
the amazon warrior is not at all sexualized
yeah u right, the boobie's out just for funsies
plush mason
their left breast is maimed and deformed like the original myth
dusk patrol
Shit forgot to mark it NSFW
arctic talon
this conversation is circular and going nowhere
gray umbra
what those hands do
opaque coyote
Cecil doesn't know de escalation
I remember a scene from a 40k fanfic that's similar to this.
Basically a Space Marine tried to calm down a paranoid Guardsman because the Guardsman accused the SM of being an Ork.
gray umbra
sweet liberty
opaque coyote
And when the SM decided to touch the clearly panicking Guardsman
opaque coyote
The guardsman slapped a fucking detpack onto the SM
late osprey
i guess itd be awkward having them load the ammo when they're 5 feet taller
crystal forum
The slaves carry the ammo
proto servitor
opaque coyote
And threatened to detonate it
arctic talon
the gun is also kind of fucking huge
opaque coyote
dusk patrol
Tank Hunters carry massive guns and have superior aim and stuff
arctic talon
would need like 2 normal humans prolly to do it
opaque coyote
Which is like the funniest shit ever
spare osprey
their left breast is maimed and deformed like the original myth
right like?
dusk patrol
But yeah that’s the main thing, they can carry bigger guns, also they’re thinner than most communicants
plush mason
they have slaves for that
the tank hunters have ammo monks not slaves
crystal forum
guess im watching doctor who again
late osprey
the line between monk and slave i doubt is very well-defined in Trench Crusade
dusk patrol
But still have better senses and durability
languid meadow
guess im watching doctor who again
plush mason
it is because the ammo monks are fellow members of their order and thier job is both the construction of the rounds and the loading of it on the battle field
crystal forum
fr why do they all do it
dusk patrol
Working with communicants also is an honor in general
It’s not like these guys tend to lack for volunteers
late osprey
luv me bullet slaves
arctic talon
I thought they just lugged the belts of it around
plush mason
they are not slaves or laymen and the rounds are anointed in the blood of the order's metachrist
late osprey
I thought they just lugged the belts of it around
honestly thought that too, i cant have a non-goofy image in my head of them loading it
opaque coyote
His burning swag
Why he so wide
arctic talon
Ig its because of the rules I thought that lol
opaque coyote
Bro built like CaseOh
plush mason
Why he so wide
because wide=swag
opaque coyote
Jk on the CaseOh part
languid meadow
Shout out to little guys lugging weapons and ammo for their bigger counterparts
late osprey
do u think the shooter throws the gun at his bullet slaves or does he just give it to them gently
opaque coyote
Is that scripture on his body
plush mason
Is that scripture on his body
yes
opaque coyote
Awesome
dusk patrol
Is that scripture on his body
opaque coyote
Idk how long that shit would take to tattoo though
dusk patrol
He’s a Communicant so he gets all the cool stuff
opaque coyote
Also very painful but that's obvious
dusk patrol
Including scripture tats
It’s hard to stress how rare these guys are in the grand scheme
languid meadow
I mean not all the cool stuff
opaque coyote
It’s hard to stress how rare these guys are in the grand scheme
Also why aren't they wearing like
Armor
At least for the torso
arctic talon
me looking at my budget on the tabletop after hiring one communicant
(I will never finanically recover)
dusk patrol
Cause they wanna show off their sick tats
opaque coyote
Or does the scripture block it
arctic talon
if you shoot a communicant it isn't doing shit
plush mason
the fact drinking the blood of a metachrist turns people into that if it doesnt out right kill them really says a lot about the world of trench crusade when they are still seen as holy
opaque coyote
their flesh is hard
Ah makes sense.
That makes it even more concerning for the tattoo artist
languid meadow
Machine armor units are cool asf and their lore goes hard asf
arctic talon
they're fucking horrifying to take down
opaque coyote
Especially for WW1 era tech
dusk patrol
arctic talon
Obnoxious as hell
late osprey
me looking at my budget on the tabletop after hiring one communicant
how much is a communicant on tabletop?
with proper equipment
dusk patrol
They’re also super fast and have heightened senses
languid meadow
"get in this big suit and forgo your name"
plush mason
does the fact he is blind get factored into his rules?
opaque coyote
Obnoxious as hell
"...will I see you back?"
"Not for a few weeks... I have to tattoo another communicant."
"But our son wants to get to know you. You haven't been home for so long and now you're going back?"
"I'm sorry Martha. But I have to do it to feed our family. You know this..."
opaque coyote
Then there’s paladins
Oh my god that armor looks so cool
dusk patrol
The people who serve them can’t look at them when they’re not in their armor cause they’re too hot
late osprey
"...will I see you back?"
"Not for a few weeks... I have to tattoo another comm...
theres worse things to be than a vatican tattooer in trench crusade
dusk patrol
And it would give them sinful thoughts
plush mason
Oh my god that armor looks so cool
they cant make anymore of it lol
dusk patrol
There was only 12 Paladins ever
opaque coyote
And it would give them sinful thoughts
Bro that armor is already giving me sinful thoughts
late osprey
yeah they ran out of israel metal
opaque coyote
Tiddy
languid meadow
Then there’s paladins
3rd circle of hell paladin iirc
dusk patrol
They run around hell and fuck shit up
opaque coyote
Hell Paladin
Of course it was the female that turned bad smh
dusk patrol
Like theyre basically super heroes
opaque coyote
Jk
arctic talon
how much is a communicant on tabletop?
100 ducats for a naked communicant with no gear
an anchorite is 140 ducats fully equipped with all the upgrades you can fit
late osprey
100 ducats for a naked communicant with no gear
holy shit
dusk patrol
Of course it was the female that turned bad smh
She didn’t I don’t think
late osprey
iirc thats like 5 yeomen shooters
opaque coyote
100 ducats for a naked communicant with no gear
More importantly.
Do communicants still have their privates
opaque coyote
She didn’t I don’t think
Ah cool
languid meadow
The paladin assigned to the 7th layer (the black grail) is the traitor iirc
dusk patrol
She’s in the fourth circle of hell
opaque coyote
The paladin assigned to the 7th layer (the black grail) is the traitor iirc
Makes sense
arctic talon
iirc thats like 5 yeomen shooters
about iirc
dusk patrol
Pictured here is Gérin, Paladin of the 3rd Circle of Hell. Bred from the genes of Christ and trained from childhood in the arts of war, he stands some 17 feet tall when arrayed for battle. This holy warrior of unparalleled might descends into Hell to slay demons within their places of power.
arctic talon
Communicant tank hunter has no Ducat price
they're 5 glory with no Ammo monk
which is a lot
ammo monk is 3 glory
late osprey
what do you actually need tank hunters for
arctic talon
3 glory can buy you a normal communicant with one of the subfactions
plush mason
the fact each suit of paladin armor can only survive being in one specific layer of hell is a neat touch
dusk patrol
So yeah that shield is like 14 feet tall
languid meadow
hunt tanks
late osprey
its not like there's tanks
dusk patrol
what do you actually need tank hunters for
Tanks
arctic talon
what do you actually need tank hunters for
Instant death against 99% of targets
opaque coyote
what do you actually need tank hunters for
Tanks 
arctic talon
can shred anchorites and other communicants
and the heretic stuff thats fucking huge
opaque coyote
dusk patrol
Oh in the game, big boy targets
late osprey
Tanks <:cirnoSmugWantsToSayHi:1211082879556128859>
there aren't tanks in the game
late osprey
and the heretic stuff thats fucking huge
yeah the monsters
dusk patrol
There’s “tanks”
arctic talon
its pretty much a dedicated lockdown unit
dusk patrol
Big boy targets to hit
arctic talon
you can lockdown large chunks of a board
dusk patrol
The Anchorites for example
arctic talon
unless your opponet doesn't mind sending lambs to the slaughter
late osprey
you can lockdown large chunks of a board
basically like sniper priests on crack
opaque coyote
Has the main Codex or whatever been posted to the public yet or is it still only limited to backers
languid meadow
yeah like Praetors, Anchorites, and some other units I forgot the names of
dusk patrol
The Trench Pilgrim faction is basically built around massed trash with a few extremely dangerous units
arctic talon
basically like sniper priests on crack
yeah
languid meadow
Has the main Codex or whatever been posted to the public yet or is it still only...
arctic talon
Has the main Codex or whatever been posted to the public yet or is it still only...
all rules are free
on their website
or in the discord for highly experiental stuff
opaque coyote
all rules are free
Oh cool. I assume you have to 3D print the actual figures tho
late osprey
you can play it on tabletop simulator, which is what ive been doing recently
arctic talon
Oh cool. I assume you have to 3D print the actual figures tho
yeah
ngl Black Grail is so ass rn
opaque coyote
I still find it funny that the guy using the "mace" has a fucking Bell attached to it
arctic talon
in a proper campaign
opaque coyote
languid meadow
oh yeah 1.6 added rules for Trench Ghosts an independent faction
arctic talon
I wonder if they got rushed out tbh
opaque coyote
Man looked at it and was like
arctic talon
regarding Black Grail
opaque coyote
"Attach bell"
arctic talon
Trench Ghosts are more complete somehow
dusk patrol
I think they wanted three factions for each “side”
arctic talon
despite being new
opaque coyote
ngl Black Grail is so ass rn
Damn that sucks
arctic talon
They're good for pickup games
dusk patrol
They’ll add more, it’s all in its infancy rn
arctic talon
yeah
opaque coyote
Black Grail is basically the traitor/evil faction right?
arctic talon
its just kind of dissapointing because they're the one Heretic faction I want to play
dusk patrol
They’re like
late osprey
black grail is specifically the zombie evil faction
languid meadow
It's the lord of flies shit
arctic talon
they're like the even shittier parts of Hell
opaque coyote
Worse hell
Damn that's even more disappointing that sounds awesome
late osprey
they're all about giving Infernal Cancer
dusk patrol
The Black Grail was basically in Hells basement hidden away
opaque coyote
they're all about giving Infernal Cancer
Is it literally just cancer but with fire
languid meadow
Beelzebub's stupid ass plague faction
late osprey
Is it literally just cancer but with fire
nah its hell zombies
opaque coyote
The Black Grail was basically in Hells basement hidden away
So they are so bad that Hell didn't want to deal with them
arctic talon
The Church of Metamorphsis is weird
languid meadow
Give me the knights of avarice please
opaque coyote
nah its hell zombies
Awesome
arctic talon
its like even creepier then Black Grail
dusk patrol
Yeah
arctic talon
mfw the Angels exiled to hell find a bricked up hidden stairwell
dusk patrol
So they are so bad that Hell didn't want to deal with them
Hell factions war with eachother plenty so
Sorta
opaque coyote
Hell factions war with eachother plenty so
Oh damn.
Also sick
late osprey
if heretic legions had guys who could wield machineguns like NA then id probably be playing them
relive the good old days of R&H armies
languid meadow
mfw the Angels exiled to hell find a bricked up hidden stairwell
I really like their lore since it implies there is more than just heaven and hell
arctic talon
Yeah
arctic talon
if heretic legions had guys who could wield machineguns like NA then id probably...
its so weird heretic legions didn't get an MG dude lol
wait
can't the infantry get it as an upgrade?
or am I wrong