40k-lore-chat

[modern rapids]

HUH? really? So the Tau are like a "Oh my Science!" type of society?

[arctic talon]

I do like how the tau on the surface look good

[opaque coyote]

I still find it funny that Necromundan Nobles literally go down to the underhives to kill people as a game.

[arctic talon]

Sorta?

[modern rapids]

hahaha

[storm jungle]

Rich people do it IRL so not too new

[arctic talon]

Religion cannot be prioritized

According to the tau’va

[opaque coyote]

Yeah fair.

[arctic talon]

The endstate is there is no religion

[opaque coyote]

Tbh I'm just imagining them being like

[arctic talon]

But for now it’s fine

The tau do have some superstition still

[opaque coyote]

"Bro look at it, I just did a 360 and popped this random civilian's head!"

[arctic talon]

Mostly tying back to when they were literal cavemen

[opaque coyote]

Imagine them speaking brainrot while murdering random ass people

[arctic talon]

Though some tau do just pray to the “greater good” as a concept

The earth caste in particular really really really doesn’t like religion

[modern rapids]

What about Eldar? Like the non-evil elves. I mean I know Empire says to kill them too ofc, but like are they all that bad?

Would they enslave/destroy humanity if they were powerful again

[arctic talon]

Depends on the craftworld

[opaque coyote]

"Whoa this is skidibi ohio rizz!"

• Necromundan Noble while murdering people

[arctic talon]

They don’t want to become powerful again aside from one craftworld

And that craftworld is the most racist, violent and xenophobic one lol

The craftworld eldars one and only goal is survival generally

Very few want to actually interact with the wider galaxy unless it concerns them

[opaque coyote]

In short.

No. They're probably the least hateful.

Of course, they're still racist as shit, would probably treat you like trash, but it's better than actual genocide.

[modern rapids]

I mean you'd think a Slaneesh worshipping traitor astartes and a dark elf would together come up with some scandalous sights of excessive agony

[arctic talon]

However sometimes that does involve like

Mass murder

[storm jungle]

Eldar are a post scarcity society that largely only wage wars unless they have to, they dont mindlessly make invasions or battles for conquests, their battles are always with the goal of saving their own lives in mind and the ones of their citizenry on their craftworld.

While still somewhat evil they still do it for their own survival and probably got one of the most understandable "motives" behind the stuff they do compared to the other factions.

[storm jungle]

Dark Eldar dont worship chaos

[coarse pumice]

They're more likely to ignore, like they did before

[arctic talon]

Yeah the craftworld eldar are xenophobic via isolation

[storm jungle]

Its basically like a Planet of the Apes situation

[arctic talon]

Killing humans is seen as murder

[storm jungle]

entirety of society has fallen

[modern rapids]

Like "everyone is in on it" type of deal, rather than "goofy govenment trying to pump propaganda to keep the populace in check"?

[storm jungle]

and we got literal apes taken over the planet

[arctic talon]

On every craftworld but Beil’tan

[storm jungle]

what would you feel like seeing that

[arctic talon]

In which that case

Beil’tan uh

[opaque coyote]

And also the fact that the average Craftworld experiences with humans mainly consist of:

"Can you please stop trying to kill us for 1 second so that we can do this ritual that will severely weaken Slaanesh?"
"FUCK YOU XENO SCUM!"
fighting ensues

(Yes this actually happened btw @modern rapids)

[arctic talon]

Wants to literally murder everyone

That isn’t eldar

[modern rapids]

But to them they see the authoritarianism as just the only way to achieve peace and harmony, right?

[arctic talon]

Yes

The ethereal caste knows best

They know everything necessary for a brighter future as they follow the tau’va

Ect.

[modern rapids]

Yeah the more I learn about the lore, the more I have to accept that fact 😅

[coarse pumice]

Even this one has temp allied and made pacts (which were honoured) with some imperial guard

[arctic talon]

Also the Tau practice gunboat diplomacy

They say join or die

[modern rapids]

REALLY?

[arctic talon]

And you will pick one

[arctic talon]

You still are rich as shit

[opaque coyote]

The T'au have ramen.

[arctic talon]

You’re just unable to climb into the tau parts of society

[opaque coyote]

The Imperium doesn't have noodles in general.

[arctic talon]

Only thing you lose

Is slaves

[opaque coyote]

Therefore, the Tau are better

[arctic talon]

The imperium does

Crazy about it themselves lol

[opaque coyote]

probably made out of dead rats and guardsmen

[storm jungle]

Yeah its based.

[modern rapids]

THERE ARE DWARFS IN 40K????

[arctic talon]

Yes

[storm jungle]

Bruh i said that like 10m ago

[arctic talon]

Leagues of votann

[opaque coyote]

Very recent addition

[storm jungle]

well no

[opaque coyote]

Well recent in 40k terms

[storm jungle]

they were always here, just forgotten

[arctic talon]

Not really

[dusk patrol]

Not really

Yeah

[arctic talon]

Squats were 2e

[opaque coyote]

Squats?

[arctic talon]

Lol

[storm jungle]

Not really

[storm jungle]

Yeah they are still squats

[opaque coyote]

Ah

[shadow plover]

and Necromunda has had them pop in every now and then

[storm jungle]

now tho "squat" is a slur for them, since i agree its a stupid ass name

[modern rapids]

ooooh the dwarfs have actual AI robots unlike humies

[opaque coyote]

Always kinda separated them in my mind tbh

[modern rapids]

how recent?

[coarse pumice]

1e even, though 2e was their last outing before the reintroduction

[storm jungle]

Kin = Dwarf
Squat = Slang

As per current lore

[arctic talon]

Leagues of votann are end of 9e

So like

2 years?

Give or take

[modern rapids]

Yeah I have been playing Rogue Trader and the way the "lower decks" people in my ship are treated is uhhh... near concentration camp levels 😭

[arctic talon]

Nah they got uh

[storm jungle]

"near"

[arctic talon]

The sludge

[storm jungle]

its basically the same tbh

[opaque coyote]

"Near"?

[storm jungle]

considering 40k has actual concentration camps

I mean sorry uh

"penal" camps

[arctic talon]

Glorious tau re-education camps

[coarse pumice]

It's more like 18th century poor

[storm jungle]

its really not

lol

[modern rapids]

So is it illegal for individuals to hold religious beliefs? Or just "prioritize the greater good over religion, as long as you do that, it's gucci"?

[opaque coyote]

Bruh Auschwitz might look like a vacation home to the average Imperial Concentration camp.

[arctic talon]

Prioritize greater good over religion

And you’re Gucci

[storm jungle]

18th century poor people didnt have armored fridge-men with shotguns hunt them for sport in the streets

[opaque coyote]

Just make sure the Greater Good is priority and you can worship whoever.

[modern rapids]

Because they fear "She who thirsts" too much?

[sharp pollen]

wait, Votann are an equivalent of China?

[arctic talon]

No, they believe that their time as the dominant power has passed

[opaque coyote]

Mainly because their decadence summoned She Who Thirsts

[arctic talon]

Tau sorta

[storm jungle]

NO

[modern rapids]

so basically night elf hippies

[opaque coyote]

No.

[arctic talon]

The craftworld eldar like

Have given up

[storm jungle]

Not really

[sharp pollen]

whew...

[storm jungle]

they are based on the high elf aesthetic

[sharp pollen]

close call

[arctic talon]

On the idea of the eldar empire

[opaque coyote]

More like High Elf Hippies

[storm jungle]

they arent even hippies

thats Exodites

[arctic talon]

Night elf hunter/huntress outfit(no pants)

[storm jungle]

the literal wood elves

[storm jungle]

Tyrande's back muscles haunt my dreams...

[opaque coyote]

Always considered them more like Amish

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpsons-the-simpsons-drooling-gif-8650008

[opaque coyote]

Are Amish hippies?

[sharp pollen]

what are Votann an equivalent of then?

[storm jungle]

Thats also correct yep

[modern rapids]

Why doesn't humanity try to communicate and get that technology from them to also become post scarcity?

[storm jungle]

Capitalist dwarf corporations

[arctic talon]

Because the eldar don’t want to share it

[storm jungle]

Because humanity are literal roman-nazis that wanna exterminate everyone.

[arctic talon]

Also yeah humanity would

[sharp pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/cyberpun-johnny-silverhand-live-reaction-keanu-reeves-gif-15704640811064903669

[arctic talon]

Not

[storm jungle]

Would you share your technology with someone that wants to kill your entire race?

[arctic talon]

The imperium are

A deranged death cult lol

[storm jungle]

^

[opaque coyote]

Humanity wants to literally murder their entire race, butcher their children, and force their parents to watch

At best

[arctic talon]

At best is a little harsh

Lol

[storm jungle]

LOL

[modern rapids]

"First we will kill you, then Slaaneshi daemons, DIE XENOS SCUM!" average space marine moment

[arctic talon]

That’s like marginally worse

Lol

[storm jungle]

This is like asking uh

[arctic talon]

Marines prioritize daemons first

The order for the imperium hatred is

[storm jungle]

"Why didnt jews give WW2 germans war supplies and monetary support"

[arctic talon]

Chaos > traitors > xenos

[coarse pumice]

The level of squalor is comparable (albeit mixed with modern shanty town) and they did get into mantraps and shot in some noble estates though that was rural poor rather than the city poor who are otherwise more similar

[arctic talon]

Unless it’s tyranids

Then tyranjds first

[opaque coyote]

Yeah fair.

The best is basically

"We won't kill you... Right now. We've got bigger fish to fry."

[storm jungle]

Its very much not. The sci-fi flair makes it even more miserable in comparison.

[modern rapids]

For the average human Joe all elves are basically dark elves, right?

Like the imperial dogma is that they basically all want to drag you down to their torture dungeons and exterminate humanity, right?

[sharp pollen]

bigger air to fry

[storm jungle]

Its not comparable to IRL poverty in history of any kind imo

[arctic talon]

The average imperium citizen dents even know about craftworld eldar

[storm jungle]

Depends from person to person

[arctic talon]

Drukhari are the only known type

[storm jungle]

most people dont even know aliens exist

[arctic talon]

If eldar to like

Most people

[modern rapids]

at least they offer the option lol

[arctic talon]

With knowledge of eldar

Craftworld eldar are extremely mysterious

And creepy

For every thousands of drukhari raids

[opaque coyote]

Only Ordos Xenos or specialists know of the difference.

The Imperium Citizens just know Deldar

[arctic talon]

There’s like one craftworld eldar war party that kills like

30 dudes then fuck off

[modern rapids]

just copy "stunties" from fantasy please, "squat" sounds so dumb

[opaque coyote]

And the Deldar aren't exactly ub

Friendly

[storm jungle]

Yeah its why they replaced it

[arctic talon]

Also the craftworld eldar don’t want another eldar empire ever again.

[storm jungle]

and why "squat" is an slur now to the dwarves

[arctic talon]

The craftworld eldar generally speaking

Don’t want it anymore

[opaque coyote]

Deldar literally treat everyone like shit

Including themselves

[arctic talon]

They saw the shit home the last eldar empire was

And decided fuck no, not again

[opaque coyote]

Their civilization is literally reliant on suffering.

They are quite literally a circlejerk of misery

[arctic talon]

One of the things imaginable as an eldar is hearing cousin as you get kidnapped

[modern rapids]

Now that I think about it, it's probably the exact same if not worse 😭 They don't even get to burn their dead, they just get made in to paste FOR THEM TO EAT

[arctic talon]

Drukhari love craftworld eldar

For torture

[opaque coyote]

It's like Social Media except 30000x worse and mixed together with gore pics

That's the Deldar.

[modern rapids]

okay I see, thanks

[arctic talon]

They don’t suffer much in life

[coarse pumice]

It's obviously exaggerated in the sci if but they're probably the closest irl parallel on a societal level than anything else in terms of stratification

[arctic talon]

They live comfortable lives, free of pain and strife 99% of the time

And then like

[queen laurel]

perks of having a powerful soul

[arctic talon]

They feel emotions strongly

[queen laurel]

the deranged offshoot of your species wants to kill you

[modern rapids]

so not like Soviet Union style anti-religious agenda, more just prioritize as you said

[arctic talon]

Yeah

[coarse pumice]

I said it was more like, not it was a 100 percent parallel

[arctic talon]

Not kill you

Torture you forever

And then probably turn you into a slave

Because it’s funny

[modern rapids]

Eldar refer to Slaanesh as "She" while humans refer to Slaanesh as "He", right?

[arctic talon]

Or living furniture

Ect.

[arctic talon]

It depends for humans

But for eldar yes

[coarse pumice]

From my impression of setting the lower decks in RT, which is also helped by the nobles aesthetics

[opaque coyote]

"Oh boy, another cousin! Time to bring out the good ol' prostate extender!"

[arctic talon]

The great enemy/she who thirsts/slaanesh has feminine pronouns

In any case the drukhari are as close as a “pure evil” sapient species in 40k

[opaque coyote]

Generally yeah.

Although for Slaanesh pronouns are interchangable.

[arctic talon]

Everyone else is inferior and chattel

Including other drukhari

[arctic talon]

Tbf that’s every chaos god

Lorgar’s homeworld referred to tzeentch and khorne with feminine pronouns

[coarse pumice]

Shem or something

[opaque coyote]

Like the Skaven and Elves mixed together...

[coarse pumice]

There's an old slaanesh cult in the rpg

[arctic talon]

I’m ngl

[storm jungle]

Yeah but thats bad

lol

[arctic talon]

Skaven would just kill you

The drukhari would not

Killing you is boring

[storm jungle]

"shem" is like giga-tier white person terminoloy

[opaque coyote]

You wish they would though

[arctic talon]

Unless it’s a wych cult and you’re a good fighter

[coarse pumice]

Who have their own pronoun for slaanesh

[modern rapids]

why not? wouldn't that be a way for universal peace?

[arctic talon]

No, because the imperium is batshit insane

And would just use it to kill more

The imperium thinks everything else should be exterminated

[storm jungle]

This is like asking "Why didnt jews give WW2 germans war supplies and monetary support"

[modern rapids]

I mean if it meant that they wouldn't want to anymore?

[opaque coyote]

Just call Slaanesh "They" if you're a cultist Worshipper or "It" if you're anything else.

Ez

[storm jungle]

No?

they'd see you as weak

[modern rapids]

a death cult? how so?

[storm jungle]

and kill you

[modern rapids]

I don't think they are sadistic, right? They would just do it out of fear

[storm jungle]

They are very much sadistic about it

it isnt just fear

[opaque coyote]

"The Imperium runs in the blood of Martyrs"

[storm jungle]

its a mix of many xenophobic and genocidal emotions

[coarse pumice]

Found it

[opaque coyote]

It was.

But the hate has perpetuated itself so much that it became something more.

The Imperium doesn't really know why they hate anymore.

They just do. It runs off of it.

[modern rapids]

Does Imperial Dogma say where Xenos came from? Like just evolved creatures from other planets? Or that they all come from the "Archenemy"?

[opaque coyote]

It is it's fuel.

[opaque coyote]

They are inferior creatures

Abominations

Mistakes of nature

The Emperor demands them to be purged from existence

[modern rapids]

What? how so?

[opaque coyote]

They don't see them.

[modern rapids]

What? Like any alien? how?

[opaque coyote]

The Craftworld keep to themselves

[storm jungle]

Because the Imperium leaves its citizens lacking in the intelligence department because dumb people are easier to control and sway like how medieval societies worked.

[storm jungle]

Because the Imperium leaves its citizens lacking in the intelligence department because dumb people are easier to control and sway like how medieval societies worked.

again

[arctic talon]

The imperium exalts martyrdom

[modern rapids]

I see, that makes sense

[arctic talon]

Dying for the emperor

[opaque coyote]

They do know that aliens exist, that they're real, that they should be killed.

But most generally don't go outside of their planets

Not because they can't but simply because they're too busy making sludge

[modern rapids]

Is it kind of "foreshadowing" what will eventually happen to the Human Empire if it survives long enough?

[storm jungle]

The "Human Empire" has already fallen

the Imperium is a rotten carcass

[arctic talon]

There is no chance the imperium fucks up as hard as the eldar empire now

It already did it’s big fuck up

[storm jungle]

they almost did during the Siege

[arctic talon]

Well

[storm jungle]

but uh

thats a story for another time

[arctic talon]

There’s a chance it could do as big of a fuck up

But not anymore

[modern rapids]

They torture in order to not get consumed by Slaanesh, right?

I am guessing at first they did this out of pure necessity, but over time they evolved to be racially sadistic and now they just enjoy it as much as it is necessary, so its kinda like eating food for them

right?

[storm jungle]

Yes.

[arctic talon]

They torture to refill their souls

Rather

[storm jungle]

^

[arctic talon]

Eldar biology lets you refill your soul

Off of suffering/fear

[opaque coyote]

It has already fallen.

I remember a decent analogy.

The Imperium is basically a man hanging off a cliff. Holding on desperately with one arm.

Their other arm is free. They could easily use it to prop themselves up longer.

But they're too busy trying to murder the other people trying to kick them off the cliff.

[arctic talon]

Slaanesh is constantly gnawing at a drukhari soul

[modern rapids]

"Funky Town Deldar Gore" 💀

[arctic talon]

But they can just top off their soul by flaying some people alive

Lowkey funky town is like

Amateur shit for the drukhari

[opaque coyote]

The average Deldar would find it boring

[arctic talon]

Yeah

It’s a decent snack

But they need a full meal

Haemonculi especially

[opaque coyote]

I think they have done shit like

Turn people into living, breathing couches

[arctic talon]

Get absurdly good at torture

[opaque coyote]

Stretch them into carpets

All that shit

[coarse pumice]

Most get by from watching arenas

[opaque coyote]

It's less Funky Town and more like

...

The Human Centipede

[arctic talon]

There’s someone who’s strung up outside vects throneroom and is basically fully stretched out across the arch

[modern rapids]

ooh I think that is what I saw in Rogue Trader, Wych Drukhari.

Are they some kind of "Gladiator cult"?

Where they get the most pleasure out of feats of combat instead of just boring torture where your "opponent" can do nothing?

[storm jungle]

Yes.

[coarse pumice]

Why not both?

[arctic talon]

The wych are a gladiator cult yeah

They’re the “service workers” almost between drukhari kabals and haemonculi covens

[modern rapids]

oh well... I guess yeah, I mean the Empire dogma/propaganda HEAVILLY encourages hatred of the xenos

[arctic talon]

They feed the masses with suffering

The average drukhari goes to wych arenas like poseidal says

[opaque coyote]

They canonically have a version of "Wheels on the Bus" but it's a Leman Russ tank crushing Xeno heads

[arctic talon]

And just gets their fill of agony watching it

[storm jungle]

It encourages hated of chaos, your own race (traitors) and aliens.

[arctic talon]

Mutants

Which are also your own race so nvm

[modern rapids]

ooooh damn, that combines She/He/They. Kinda smart + warhammer sounding haha

[arctic talon]

mass void born lynching

[opaque coyote]

I'm now imagining a Wych wearing a McDonald's outfit

"Welcome to the VectArena. What kind of suffering do you want to feed on?"

[queen laurel]

Me watching the imperium skin a baby alive because it's skin is just a little bit more green

[modern rapids]

I thin it just serves as a tool to protect humanity from the evils of the galaxy

[opaque coyote]

It doesn't

[arctic talon]

It makes it worse

The way the imperium treats it’s people empowers chaos

[storm jungle]

It makes it worse.

[arctic talon]

All the suffering, hatred,

Ect.

[storm jungle]

Ignorant people are easier to sway to chaos and other predators.

[modern rapids]

yeah, Hatred is an immensly powerful tool to move humans to do "great" feats

[arctic talon]

It goes into chaos

[storm jungle]

why do you think we dont do feudalims anymore

[opaque coyote]

There are actually records of societies that worked with Xenos and were fine.

The Imperium uh

[dusk patrol]

Cause making knight armor is hard

[opaque coyote]

Killed them all

[modern rapids]

But Humans don't believe the Emperor created the universe, right?

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-yakuza-can-you-shut-up-shut-your-mouth-gif-9966065835841311517

Also i swear

this

Replying to 10m old messages is killing me

[dusk patrol]

Unironically it’s sorta why

[queen laurel]

wasn't there also a time like where the imperium is even willing to cooperate with aliens

[storm jungle]

no lol

only if they get something useful out of it

and like, basically make them live in ghettos

give us your spinal regen juice

[dusk patrol]

They’re just like me frfr

[modern rapids]

Out of fear of them all wanting to destroy humanity, right?

Like it's not just "let us pour immense resources into destroying this harmless creature that we just find disgusting" but that they believe that all non-human life wants the destruction of humanity at all times, right?

[arctic talon]

Tbf they didn’t want to genocide them that time

[queen laurel]

Yeah didn't they like hunted an alien race to extinction because it younger but like you know

[arctic talon]

But yeah

Lol

[opaque coyote]

Depends. The Imperial Creed has a different denomination for each planet.

Some believe the Emperor to be a sun god, some a creator, some a war god, etc.

The only commonality is that he is the most powerful one.

[arctic talon]

That was against what the imperium wanted that time

But yes

[modern rapids]

I mean you'd think it would be at least a legend

[storm jungle]

It svery much just that.

[dusk patrol]

They didn’t but people did

[arctic talon]

They were farming a sentient and sapient species

[storm jungle]

So basically they did.

[arctic talon]

The fact they went extinct was

[storm jungle]

But yes lmao

[arctic talon]

Not the point

Lol

[storm jungle]

like what they did to those aliens

was by no means humane

[arctic talon]

But yeah it was not good

Lol

[storm jungle]

even if they lived lol

[shadow plover]

stop saying lol you freaks!!

[queen laurel]

bro common sense is literally considered a sin in imperium

[modern rapids]

Would someone like Guilliman know that there are even kind and honest Xenos that would be willing to help humanity, but still he decides to "keep appearances up" for the rest of humanity because the risk of working with Xenos is too great and thus the dogma must be that they are all evil?

[storm jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/lol-league-of-legends-login-play-lol-login-gif-8475922707380386234

[opaque coyote]

Nah he hates them

[queen laurel]

this kingdom crazy

[arctic talon]

Literally me

[storm jungle]

No hes a genocidal warlord.

RAAARGH

[dusk patrol]

There isn’t really, and he’s looking out for the Imperium first ultimately still

[arctic talon]

Guilliman literally says to yvraines face I’ll kill you later just so you know

[opaque coyote]

He's still a son of the Emperor. He fucking hates Xenos.

He just knows when it's not the time to senselessly murder

[storm jungle]

Yeah hes only doing what he does because he wants to save humanity

[arctic talon]

And she just like

[storm jungle]

otherwise he says himself he'd rather fuck off or die

[arctic talon]

Shrugs her shoulders and says okay

[modern rapids]

Sure, but Christianity isn't a Death Cult cause Martyrs are highly praised.

Or at least my understanding of a Death Cult is that the purpose of it is some kind of suicide ritual.

[sharp pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/poe2-login-poe2-gif-17607649316887088565

[dusk patrol]

Everyone at the end of the day everyone is looking out for number 1

[arctic talon]

The imperium actively encourages you to go and die

Run at them with a grenade

[opaque coyote]

I do find it funny because it's almost like she wants to say

"I'd be disappointed if you didn't say that"

[arctic talon]

Even if your legs are broken drag yourself over

And stab them

[opaque coyote]

But knows better to say it out loud

[arctic talon]

Your suffering is nothing

Death is your reward

[dusk patrol]

It glorifies sacrifice

[arctic talon]

^

Christianity does not encourage you to crawl at someone with a grenade after you get your let’s hacked off

[pine wedge]

The Imperium is a maniacal death cult and the setting is at its most peak when people remember that

[dusk patrol]

Sometimes this is good sometimes this isn’t as good

[arctic talon]

I LOVE MARTYRDOM

IN DEATH REDEMPTION

[dusk patrol]

Some people take it much more extreme than others

[arctic talon]

Yeah that also

[queen laurel]

yeah watching your soldier friend grenade rush an entire position and destroy it because apparently it's the right thing isn't fun

[arctic talon]

The current imperial cult is the more liberal, moderate and calm version

Is the most horrifying part

[pine wedge]

It's why I don't really like it when the Imperium achieves genuine progress in any direction. It cheapens the soul of the setting

[arctic talon]

Thor or whatever his name

[green loom]

Cain is a good example because he isn't a coward in that he's not brave
He's a coward because he doesn't martyr himself right away

[arctic talon]

Somehow made the ecclisarchy less awful

[opaque coyote]

Basically remember the Introduction Monologue to 40k?

About how the Imperium is the cruelest regime in human history.

Imagine every violation that has happened in human history.

Every human rights violation, every genocide, every point of suffering.

And multiply it by 100.

The Geneva convention isn't just a checklist.

It is automatic routine to violate every rule as senselessly as possible on a mass scale.

@modern rapids

[dusk patrol]

He’s not a coward tbh he’s just got imposter syndrome

[arctic talon]

^

[dusk patrol]

Even by the Imperiums standards

[arctic talon]

Caine is like the worst example for it imo

[green loom]

Yeah but the concept of not Martyring himself is the source of that

[arctic talon]

Obviously

[storm jungle]

He says it himself like a thousand times

[arctic talon]

He has huge guilt over not dying for the imperium

[storm jungle]

"Im not a hero I DONT WANNA DIE BRUH"

[opaque coyote]

And the source of the Impostor Syndrome is literally having the desire to live and...

HELP THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM???

[dusk patrol]

The Imperium doesn’t inherently think you should just go die, it’s the fanatical part of the belief that does that, the main key thing is being willing to die and risk yourself for it

[green loom]

Yeah which I mean demonstrates that martyrdom is so prized that self preservation is tantamount to cowardice

[dusk patrol]

It’s often a maligned part of the creed by certain parts that the death ends up being the goal

Which is common theme through all GW properties

Certain fanatical elements taking sacrifice to mean “go die and be in pain all the time”

[modern rapids]

How so?

[arctic talon]

Wrong image

[storm jungle]

WE JUST SAID THAT

[arctic talon]

It fell long ago

[dusk patrol]

Flagellants and all that

[opaque coyote]

"Free slaves!!"

Vs

"Free Slaves?!?"

[storm jungle]

Okay like

@modern rapids is your discord always 10m behind or something?

we explain about half your questions

then you ask the same stuff 10m later

[opaque coyote]

Bro is using an astropath to communicate

[dusk patrol]

Unrelated

[modern rapids]

If the Eldar fell due to summoning Slaanesh, Humanity would probably summon Khorn. Since I feel like the biggest emotion for them is Hatred. or fear I guess

[storm jungle]

Bastard

[dusk patrol]

That’s

That’s not how this works

[storm jungle]

Thats the Dark King

[modern rapids]

does that make them effectively immortal?

[storm jungle]

BRO

[opaque coyote]

@dusk patrol give him 10 minutes to catch up

[storm jungle]

WE SAID THAT 20M AGO

[opaque coyote]

[storm jungle]

--RAAARHHHG**

[arctic talon]

Yes

[dusk patrol]

Maybe he’s in a time loop

[storm jungle]

Real.

[arctic talon]

Horrifying

[modern rapids]

I see, thats interesting. Must have been hell to be among the first Drukhari who had to torture while still not finding pleasure in it

[storm jungle]

Wh-

[arctic talon]

Well not really

Lol

[storm jungle]

[dusk patrol]

I don’t believe him

[opaque coyote]

Bro he is stuck in the warp

[arctic talon]

The drukahri

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[arctic talon]

Were from the eldar empire

[storm jungle]

Theres no other explanation.

[arctic talon]

They were already like that

[modern rapids]

why specifically them and not other Eldar?

[storm jungle]

Yeah im starting to believe this.

Like

we moved on from eldar almost 30m ago

and hes now back to them

[arctic talon]

No soulstone or other form of protection

[storm jungle]

[opaque coyote]

Frog

[dusk patrol]

I wouldn’t eat that cause he looks disgusting

[modern rapids]

So their favourite snack is other Eldari, what about humies? Orks favourite fight is with Humies, but do Drukhari like torturing humies?

[dusk patrol]

Varies

[modern rapids]

💀

[arctic talon]

Drukhari like torturing anything really

[dusk patrol]

They like pain, it comes in many forms

[arctic talon]

But humans, eldar, tau

Are the top 3 best torture dolls

[dusk patrol]

They have literally different tastes for it

[arctic talon]

Also yeah that

[dusk patrol]

Some work better than others for getting their gibblets off though

[opaque coyote]

Vect posting on the Noosphere:

"TOP TEN TORTURE VICTIMS!"

gets banned 5 minutes later

[storm jungle]

Admech would ban him for saying he can torture people better than them tbh.

sorry i mean "put to work"

https://tenor.com/view/me-working-at-amazon-sending-gif-20039007

[modern rapids]

They do actively enjoy it right? Kinda like eating a delicious banquet for us, rigth? It is necessary for them to continue living, but it's not just a task, it is pleasurable. Some food is bland, but still eatable for survival, while some is delicious and can be enjoyed even beyond mere nourishment, right?

[arctic talon]

The Prefecture Magisterium takes offense the implication xenos can torture better

[arctic talon]

Yes they actively enjoy the torture

[storm jungle]

No Dark Eldar hate what they do.

They are one of the most peaceful creatures in 40k

We literally told you they are evil 4 times

[modern rapids]

True yeah, playing Rogue Trader has taught me this too 😅 Like 95% of all Chaos corruption is caused by revolts against oppressors AKA other humans

[opaque coyote]

Imagine Vect literally arguing with people on a Mechanicus forum using a burner account.

"No you're supposed to use lava instead of promethium. Makes it slower!"

[storm jungle]

[dusk patrol]

Idk have they ever tried talking to their dad?

[arctic talon]

Vect prolly doesn’t torture himself

[opaque coyote]

@modern rapids free this man from the warp

[arctic talon]

He has people to do it

For him lol

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-dompler-smiling-friends-smiling-friends-charlie-angry-offended-gif-4353450328088262326

[storm jungle]

The fact that he ignored my ping convinces me this is bait.

unless it hasnt been 10m

maybe then he'll reply to it

[opaque coyote]

Either that or he's using Internet from Somalia

[storm jungle]

LOL

Anyway its like past 12 im gonna get coffee and do some work.

[dusk patrol]

I wonder if there’s a way we can exploit this continuum to bet on something

[queen laurel]

Hey a bit slow to pick up conversation that's not new it's like eternal reward

Only marginally better

[dusk patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[opaque coyote]

Istg if he replies to a message I sent like 20 minutes ago

[modern rapids]

Is there any kind of real "after life belief"? I have heard "going to the throne" after dying for the Emperor, but do they have any theology surrounding that? Like what is life after death, ASSUMING you were a loyal subject to the Emperor and maybe even died a martyr's death

[arctic talon]

99.99999999% of human souls just dissolve in the warp

[opaque coyote]

Okay yeah he's officially stuck in the warp

[queen laurel]

Bros on that ork scrap internet

[dusk patrol]

Generally you don’t wanna stick around anyways

[modern rapids]

Yeah true, it's even discouraged often and even could be said it is prelest for thinking you are some saint who is gonna go get martyred by some jungle tribe while preaching the gospel

[arctic talon]

If your soul sticks around it’s going to become a torture doll for a daemon

[opaque coyote]

They do believe in the Emperor giving them an afterlife.

Although most of the time they just dissipate.

[modern rapids]

Is it all because the universe is so brutal and cruel?

[arctic talon]

What do you guys think green taurox tastes like

[dusk patrol]

Wait

I think he’s actually like

I don’t even get it

[modern rapids]

noooo hahaha I have just been a bit busy and now I am a bit behind on answering hehe

[dusk patrol]

Oh well

Heh

[opaque coyote]

OH MY GOD HE FINALLY CAUGHT UP

[modern rapids]

also I have a goldfish brain for memory I am soooorryyy 😭

[dusk patrol]

No he didn’t

But soon

[opaque coyote]

I'm gonna take a shower

[queen laurel]

Homie you are insulting the goldfish

[dusk patrol]

Now I’m thinking of Severance again

[modern rapids]

[arctic talon]

Better then an eternity of torture

We know some human souls somehow get to the emperor

[modern rapids]

and by "dissolve" you mean like annihilationism? they just dissapear from existence forever

[arctic talon]

But it’s a minuscule amount

[arctic talon]

They just disappear from existence yeah

They get reabsorbed

[modern rapids]

I'm sorry I forgot to paint it Red 😭

[plush mason]

its not called the sea of souls for nothing

[modern rapids]

Is there any telling of what that afterlife is like?

[arctic talon]

No

Celestine is the closest we get but she has a pretty hellish afterlife lol

[modern rapids]

REabsorbed? Do all souls originally come from the Warp?

[arctic talon]

Shes a living Saint and Therfore immortal

[modern rapids]

ooh yeah true

[arctic talon]

Unclear, presumably no, but the warp is made out of pure soul stuff so maybe it is

But Celestine literally has to climb a mountain of her own corpses

And find shards of her armor

[plush mason]

does the imperial cult even have a set understanding of an afterlife or is it just every world has different views about what happens after you die and the wider church doesnt care so long as they worship the emperor

[arctic talon]

Different views

[green loom]

Just different religions with the Emperor flavour

[plush mason]

makes sense, leaves an easy plot point for say a chaos cult investigation

[green loom]

Like Emperor Valhalla, or Emperor Elysium, or Emperor Heaven

[plush mason]

world's local funerary practices make an informant suspicious

[modern rapids]

Does the Empire even have Heretics that aren't chaos worshippers?

Like does it care about heretics who still worhsip the emperor and reject Chaos, but just have wrong beliefs about the emperor?

[green loom]

Sub cults just being chaos cults is a classic thing

[green loom]

Oh all the time

It's like medieval Christianity but worse

[plush mason]

ye

[green loom]

"The Emprosius Gloriana doth wipe his back end with gold lined fabric! So say I, Arch Paperteer Magoonius"
"Nay heathen dog! He doth not wipe at all! So say I, Bungoosius"
Fighting ensues

[plush mason]

i wonder if there is a war of quills situation happening in the ecclisiarchy

[late osprey]

@modern rapids it ultimately comes a lot down to politics, but the simple answer is 'yes', they do

but the ecclesiarchy is known to make exceptions when convenient, for instance if the heretics in question are a bunch of savages

it's a waste of time to teach proper doctrine to feral worlders so as long as they're mostly correct it's okay

obviously an educated hive worlder has no such excuse

[green loom]

Two men called Quill force a system into a war because the letter declaring them head of the local shrine only hadd "Quill" with no other name written

[late osprey]

if a particular ecclesiarch has an axe to grind against you, you bet you'll be purity checked out the wazoo for a reason to get you executed

[green loom]

Eventually both die, and in the apocalyptic hellscape leftover, the survivors endlessly search for an actual quill in the ruins of the ecclesiarchy

Thinking it will guide them to salvation

[late osprey]

there does seem to be SOME sense of an emperor-bestowed afterlife when living saints get reborn

so, although i dont think its ever explicitly said, i wouldnt doubt that the ecclesiarchy has some measure of "Emperor will save your soul" idea going around

[plush mason]

well i mean more like members of a part of the ecclisiarchy fightin and kill each other over something

like a relic or something

[green loom]

It's it's own environment of crazies

[plush mason]

so in other words, yes they are killing each other over stuff like that like the scribes in the administorim killing each other for pins and paper lol

[late osprey]

minor incidents are implied to happen all the time, since 40k codicies usually are written to allow that sort of absurd infighting

as for galaxy-wide infighting, there's this

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Plague_of_Unbelief

[modern rapids]

Except if they are a powerful enough ally like Mars ;)

[late osprey]

politics is a bitch!

one MIGHT consider the age of apostasy another example of ecclesiarchical infighting, but i think otherwise

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Age_of_Apostasy

ill link it anyway

[plush mason]

that was more ecciesiarchical infighting leading into imperium wide civil war

[late osprey]

yeah, so im not sure anything specifically like what you were looking for is present

could be, but not at a galactic level that ive seen

[modern rapids]

This sounds more like "Church vs state" than Heresy or ecclesiarchal infighting due to religious reasons

But yeah I get what you mean

[late osprey]

yeah the age of apostasy more embodies the church v state conflict imo, but its still relevant to ecclesiarchial politics

so worth mentioning at the least

[modern rapids]

Does the Ecclesiarchy have any beliefs on the origin of the universe? Origin of humanity? Some kind of "creator God"?

[late osprey]

i dont think that's standardized, though i would wager the popular belief is the Emperor created the universe

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Cult

there might be more in the hundreds of books, but this sums up the jist of the imperial religion

actually, looking at the sources, there surely is more

[modern rapids]

So the average peasant probably thinks of the Emperor as an all knowing all powerful deity, while for example the Primarchs and prob. Most Astartes know that is not true, but dont care enough to correct them since their belief serves its purpose?

[modern rapids]

Does the Imperial cult symbol Skull have any signifigance? Is it supposed to represent The Emperor?

[late osprey]

i would surmise a slight step further and that the astartes either know it's pointless to correct mortals or that they dont care what the mortals believe in the first place

[late osprey]

actually IIRC its specifically apart of the human-centric focus of the religion, the idea is that humanity is inherently holy and so the skull is the perfect symbol for humanity based on how unique it is

which, IIRC, is a large part of why titans are as they are as well, as the vaguely-bipedal form is human-like and therefore holy

its been many years since i read that so i dont remember where i read it from unfortunately

[modern rapids]

Ooooh wait... Was reading this and got to the imperial truth... The Emperor didn't have any kind of principle anti-theist outlook, he just wanted to eliminate religion because it was a gateway for Chaos to corrupt humanity...

[green loom]

He also didn't believe in Gods

Or omnipotent gods anyway

[late osprey]

it's possible that it was a matter of anti-chaos, but i think he was more of a principled atheist

[green loom]

Yeah his whole thing was championing "reason"

[late osprey]

the books certaintly suppose, from his arguments, that he didn't like religion for its own sake

[modern rapids]

Also what the imperial cult kind of existed while the Emperor still lived... It was created by a Primarch...

He just wrote a book that proclaimed him as a God

[green loom]

I mean it manifested on its own too

Typically if you see what is basically a golden god walking around smiting down his enemies, it inspires some superstitions

Lorgar just gave them their sourcebook

[late osprey]

yeah from what i remember people were already worshipping the Emperor in the first 3 HH books

[modern rapids]

Ooh all that does make sense tbh, all the skulls and human shapes even in robotics

Machinery, not robotics really

[modern rapids]

I mean if you had psychic powers and would know of Chaos gods that no religion on earth believes in, then I guess it would make sense for him to not believe in much

Then again... I would think he would at the least be some type of deist

[late osprey]

it's hard to guess what the emperor's true intentions were, by design, but it seemed he was very keen on creating a wholly atheistic society for humanity

[modern rapids]

Chaos and the warp dont seem all that "natural" and purely physical/fit in an atheist/non-supernatural worldview

[late osprey]

it's just unfortunate that we haven't had a writer who can decently articulate such beliefs

[green loom]

Important note is he's reasonable by his own standards, which comes with its own hiccups

[late osprey]

i might suppose that his own hope was essentially "if we ignore it'll go away"

[opaque coyote]

Also skull imagery is based off of some old Christian things.

Check this shit out

[late osprey]

which isn't INSANELY far off from the truth

[opaque coyote]

The Sedlec Ossuary. A Roman Catholic Chapel

[green loom]

I think that's in Kingdom come

[opaque coyote]

Probably should play through it

Kinda suck at the combat tho

[green loom]

You get used to it

[modern rapids]

A bit lame... But I see

[late osprey]

The Last Church is a little controversial

[modern rapids]

Hah yeah after all I guess he was just a human

[modern rapids]

Whats that?

[late osprey]

its the short story thats ostensibly supposed to be a discussion between the last priest of terra and the Emperor on the nature of religion

unfortunately the controversy is that the writer wasn't particularly good at the discussion part

and the Emperor comes across as the average /r/atheism poster

[modern rapids]

Yeaaa I've seen this before. Also some Orthodox monasteries keep the skulls of dead monks, paint their names and birth/death dates on them... Sometimes even paint an icon of the dead monk on the skull 😎

[late osprey]

HOWEVER, i still recommend you read/listen all the same

its quite interesting regardless

[opaque coyote]

It's hard to write an Uber intelligent being so instead he came off as a fucking Reddit Atheist.

Bro really forgot that a lot of genocides were from non-religious people.

And that he is gonna do the biggest one

[opaque coyote]

I think the fan animated adaptation is also pretty good

Lemme find it

[late osprey]

yeah it's not exactly easy to write as a post-human as an ordinary human

def link it

[modern rapids]

I'm guessing the Tau are the most "lame" race to Chaos and probably has the best plan to weaken chaos long term

[celest dome]

That's cause he is

[late osprey]

https://tenor.com/bJkB1.gif

[opaque coyote]

Bro it got taken down and reposted

AGAIN

Fucking GW

Whatever

[late osprey]

my next homebrew? chaos soldiers that i play as tempestus scions

[opaque coyote]

https://youtu.be/rKaY-EI4mkU?si=ff_prqgpeIbTGHBM

Here

[late osprey]

that'd be necrons, on a meta level, but i really recommend watching the vid laati linked

its rly cool

[opaque coyote]

Yes to the "lame" part but also no.

It's just that they haven't awoken their Psyker potential yet

They're on a fucking time limit essentially.

[modern rapids]

The church might be since its in Kutna Hora/Kutenberg, but the skulls? Doubt it since they weren't there during Henry's time

[late osprey]

i dont know if we know that actually

[modern rapids]

Bruh... Man that sounded so interesting untill you mentioned that 😭

Especially since I've come to the faith in recent months

[late osprey]

we know that certain species just have certain psychic strengths inherently

[opaque coyote]

Yeah don't worry about it. The Emperor literally gets proven wrong by the Imperium's sheer existence

Also Uriah's story is interesting.

[late osprey]

allowing one's worldview to interfere with how they engage in literature isn't really the wisest approach

it's conventional wisdom that a secure and learned mind can entertain ideas without accepting them

and the story itself isnt really supposed to be a slam dunk on religion or anything

even as its written, its pretty clearly just a dialogue

[opaque coyote]

It's actually more of a slam dunk on the Emperor in my opinion.

[late osprey]

yeah LOL

[opaque coyote]

It shows him as he is.

A hypocritical dictator

[late osprey]

i think it was INTENDED to be a dialogue, honestly

just the writer wasn't very well-versed on this sort of matter

[opaque coyote]

The animated adaptation kinda fixes this by highlighting the Emperor's hypocrisy more

[late osprey]

it is sort of accidentally one-sided

when i really think the intention behind it was to be more even

[modern rapids]

I haven't gotten in to warhammer books at all yet (not really any books, bought Black Company chronicles last year and I'm still on like page 20 or 30 or smthng 😭(

But I definitely should, they seem really interesting

[opaque coyote]

It probably doesn't help that the Emperor has knowledge of like

All of human history

While Uriah had like his own experiences

[late osprey]

ive heard consistently that either the Gaunt's Ghosts or Caiaphas Cain book series are the best to start with

[opaque coyote]

It's like

Having a debate with someone but the guy you're debating with has the server of Wikipedia in his mind

[modern rapids]

Aren't the worst genocides in human history basically all made by either full on anti-theists or just for non-religion related issues/ideas?

[late osprey]

but i have a personal bias to the initial trilogy of Horus Heresy

[late osprey]

well id say its like having to write someone who knows everything of everything

its a tough gig

[modern rapids]

Copyright issues?

[opaque coyote]

Mixed.

Some genocides are in the name of religion, some aren't. In general, I wouldn't blame faith for causing human cruelty or genocide.

[late osprey]

the last church is probably one of the toughest gigs of all of the books because the emperor directly refers to pre-40k history

[opaque coyote]

Yup

[modern rapids]

I will once I am done with school @opaque coyote

[opaque coyote]

Fucking GW

[opaque coyote]

Thank ya

Take your time, your education is more important

Anyways I shall sleep

[late osprey]

in future stuff like Master of Mankind you can just ignore pre-40k history

[opaque coyote]

Gn

[late osprey]

so its way easier to write

[opaque coyote]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1000626536573063308/1005408352005787748/caption.gif

[late osprey]

ultimately, Last Church is just a deceptively difficult concept to write, so i dont blame the writer from err'ing in some parts

but it is definitely controversial all the same

though i confess i have a soft spot for it as well as one of my first 40k literatures

[modern rapids]

Oh... I thought it would be due to them wanting peace and harmony

[late osprey]

i dont think we know if its a psychic potential thing or not

but they definitely dont want peace and harmony in the traditional sense

the Tau Empire has galactic ambitions just like humanity does

[modern rapids]

I mean that is the case with everyone, no? We all compare it to our own lives for better or worse. I know it's dumb to try to insert my own worldviews, especially in to something as miserable as 40K, but even when I was an atheist I enjoyed challenging/at least intelligent and good faith religous debate/ideas etc.

[late osprey]

point moreso being that allowing your view of a fictional (nonexistent) character to be colored by your worldview is a little shortsighted

the atheist emperor can't actually do or say anything

[modern rapids]

The last church or 40k in general?

[late osprey]

the last church

40k itself, contrary to what people might insist, is really nothing but an arena for cool battles

[modern rapids]

I would rather read a well thought and intelligent slam dunk on religion by the Emperor, rather than a slam dunk on a dumbass reddit emperor 🥲

[modern rapids]

Huh? Isn't the whole idea of 40K that the Emperor was truly benevolent while the ecclesiarchy corrupted his ideas?

[late osprey]

it's hard to say if that was ever the idea of 40k, but modern 40k lore has it moreso that the Emperor is essentially a magical lex luthor

[green loom]

Lol

[modern rapids]

Bro was here when we got the internet and secularisation of society and loss of purpose and thought atheism would bring a golden age to humanity 💀

[green loom]

Yeah no

The Emperor is a tyrannical genocidal nutjob

[late osprey]

and by 'modern' i basically mean post-2000

[green loom]

With an extreme martyr complex and a grand evil plan

[modern rapids]

I would like to start from the very beginning tbh, not best, but beginning

[green loom]

It's like his main deal

He's a total, fervent atheist

But he styles himself as a literal golden martyr

[late osprey]

they say that, but frankly horus heresy to 40k is like the roman empire to the middle ages

its so detached it really doesnt tell you that much about the setting

hence the aforementioned series being better introductions

the horus heresy books are best when you can identify all the dramatic irony ahead of time

[green loom]

Yeah Horus Heresy books are the product

40k books are advertising for the product

[late osprey]

i dont know about that, im more of a radical in that i really loathe how much focus there is on the horus heresyt

better it was left a vague period in the history, but whatever

[modern rapids]

Sure

[late osprey]

but these are all wine-smellers' opinions

[green loom]

Oh I mean I agree

[late osprey]

im sure if ur really interested it couldn't matter at all what order you read what books in

just as a wine-smeller, start at the caiaphas cain/gaunt's ghosts series

and THEN go to horus heresy

[modern rapids]

Probably yeah...

Even the criticism of fascism I think is mostly a reaction to people championing fascism by using 40k, not the main focus of it

Its just a grim dark world with grim dark societies

[late osprey]

basically, yeah. it's just about facilitating cool battles

thats what all the lore is about

the books are great gravy, and Rogue Trader is one of my favorite 40k games

[green loom]

The criticism of fascism is the imperium being comically stupid

[late osprey]

but beliving 40k is anything but a setting for cool fights is just silly

[green loom]

But having a cool aesthetic it's still used as a vessel by people who like it

[late osprey]

chronically-online silliness, even

[modern rapids]

Ohh I see... So read 40k stuff before horus heresy?

[green loom]

You read either or

[late osprey]

yes EXACTLY

going HH first isn't my recommendation at all

[green loom]

They have basically no relation

[late osprey]

you miss out on a lot of the dramatic irony

[green loom]

It's like choosing between reading the hobbit and lotr

[shadow plover]

I don't think 40k is mandatory for HH, but you'll miss out on little details in HH if you start with it

[late osprey]

@shadow plover has the right of it

[shadow plover]

My coworker started with HH with only bare bone timeline knowledge of the whole setting and it has been interesting to follow his journey through it

[late osprey]

the order doesn't REALLY matter, but if you want the full experience it really should be 40k first, then HH

hence why i said it was a wine-smeller's take to start with 40k lol

[shadow plover]

It gives a pretty unique twist to it all when you don't even know which legions turn traitor or not

[green loom]

Should be noted there's no real cohesive 40k timeline for every book since it's mostly self contained series

[late osprey]

i do think nonetheless the books were written with the assumption that you were already a 40k fan

not that a newbie cant enjoy it, just like you said, the details will be missed

i mean the tagline of the first book "I was there the day the Horus slew the Emperor" was meant for that sort of thing

[shadow plover]

they were, but again I don't think it's "required reading" or anything

[late osprey]

nah, i agree

it wont ruin the books at all

just "optimally" you'd read some 40k books, i suppose

optimally with said quotes emphasized

[storm jungle]

"Horus's bodyguards marched like a legion, a black legion."

or my favorite

"This is Horus' Heresy."

actual line

[late osprey]

my favorite line "Jee, Abbadon, our lord Horus, -"

shut up

[storm jungle]

God it hurts

like im glad the other books mostly dropped this shit, but Horus Rising has so much of it

minus uh

"WE ARE FIGHTNG FOR THE FUTURE OF THE IMPERIUM, WE CANT LOSE"

Spoilers, they dont lose

[late osprey]

Gavriel Loken gazed upon the invisible camera, the words left his lips before he could even speak, "Gee, Horus, this is a Galaxy Aflame!"

[storm jungle]

AuUUuguhghh

[late osprey]

as long as the Eisenstein doesn't give flight, our treachery will remain concealed

"my lord... there was a certain flight..."

oh fuck.

[paper haven]

his Imperial Fist

[late osprey]

"ah... only 1000 of you survived the burning of prospero. now, what will i call you...."

[raven stone]

The entire opening of the very first HH novel, really.
“Civil war is impossible” [paraphrasing]
“I was there when Horus killed The Emperor”
Etc. Etc.
Was a bit cringe actually.

[late osprey]

sue me, i liked it

[paper haven]

I also enjoyed it

[storm jungle]

Its very cringe yeah

[raven stone]

Eh, can’t be bothered to sue, not bad enough to start arguments over XD

[paper haven]

But it is also cringe

[raven stone]

Cringe enough to be cringe, but I can see the humor behind it.

[storm jungle]

i think one of my favorite braindead sentences was uh

"Astartes fighting astartes? Such a notion was laughable."

Yes author

I get it

lol

Its like describing Lincoln going to the theatre and the book says the performance is gonna be mindblowing.

[late osprey]

i do admit MAYBE my ribs got sore from all the wink-wink nudge-nudge'ing going on

but i still loved it

[queen laurel]

to be fair it was so mind blowing his brains was scattered in the wall

[paper haven]

I read one that was so bad that I had to put the book down for a bit

[late osprey]

which one?

[paper haven]

I can't remember

I blocked it out

[late osprey]

speaking of absurdities

i never got the multilaser memes

like we literally have a gun called a "melta"

and a multilaser is too silly for you?

get real

[raven stone]

Oh and the bit with the Istvaan landing.
When the 2nd wave legions arrived.
That bit, omfg.

[shadow plover]

afaik the multilaser meme is because of one book that mentions one like fifteen times per page

[raven stone]

C.S. Goto

[late osprey]

it was from a notoriously shit writer

[raven stone]

Also has Marines use Multilasers. Just because.

[shadow plover]

yes

[raven stone]

Eldar stealing Imperial tanks.

[late osprey]

but the concept itself is not that absurd in 40k

[raven stone]

Like lolwut

[late osprey]

frankly csgoto's writer persona (NOT his own person) should've been hanged from the neck 'till dead for everything else

the multilaser memery was just weird

although the fact that space marines use them does put the absurdity into a bit more context

[paper haven]

Multilaser was honestly one of the more benign oddities.

Dawn of War was my introduction to 40k. So you can imagine reading the novel was a wild ride for me

[plush mason]

the concept is the exact same as the multi barreled AA guns we have irl

more barrels=more rounds down range

[raven stone]

Nah, not the weapon concept, but rather the idea Marines would use Multilasers…

It’s usually a Guard weapon.

Marines have much deadlier things to use.

[plush mason]

yeah

[late osprey]

true, that puts it into perspective for me

[modern rapids]

Whats his "evil plan"?

[modern rapids]

Doesn't he only do that to help humanity? As a front, for something for humanity to believe in, to not cause another horus heresy

[late osprey]

the general consensus is that he is genuine in his desire to have humanity be the ultimate species in the galaxy, just that his methods were flawed

[storm jungle]

"Ends justify the means" which in this case didn't as he essentially doomed the entirety of humanity to a terrible miserable existence.

The Empeor cares about the concept of humanity, not individuals.

[summer mural]

same

Emperor is more relatable than Morty

[storm jungle]

Both of them are losers of different magnitudes.

[celest dome]

The Imperium seem like the only solution to the situation, cause the Emperor made it that way

[storm jungle]

Yeah that.

They are also the only proper human protagonists because tabletop.

[late osprey]

the emperor extinguishd, in the lore, alternative means of society

[summer mural]

I do like how Cain is a loser, but hes really a big winner

[storm jungle]

Pretty much yeah.

When your conquest doctrine is "join us or die" you dont leave room for much else

[late osprey]

well, if i were the emperor's defense attorney, i would say it was Horus who destroyed the truly viable alternative society

but nevertheless the emperor should've still known better

as the ebin all-powerful master of mankind or whatever

[storm jungle]

A person he created against the incredibly sensible wishes of his Custodians and a primarch he also allowed the seeds of his own dumbassery to take hold by not teaching them about chaos, his own goals, and many other stuff.

[shadow plover]

more like, fister of manbum

[storm jungle]

Get out.

[summer mural]

Horus?

[shadow plover]

I can't yet, gotta work

[summer mural]

More like WHORE

[storm jungle]

🐴

[late osprey]

yeah all failures run back to the emperor

[queen laurel]

people be out here venerating the emperor like he is the greatest chad to live

[summer mural]

aaight, thats my contribution for the day

can the emperor even meme as hard as kaldor draigo

[storm jungle]

[summer mural]

the man is taking strolls in the warp to the point where daemons are scared to challenge him on their own turf

hes a mistake

~~ just like the existence of the alpha legion~~

[paper haven]

Can't wait to hear Kaldo Dreigo say "Hydra Dominatus" right before stabbing a confused Abaddon in the chest.

[modern rapids]

How did he make it so?

Like what would be a better alternative?

[storm jungle]

By being a genocidal "my way or the highway" warlord

its not that complex of a subject

he seems like the only alternative to the situation the galaxy was in post-Age of Strife because we are basically told of nothing else in comparison lol

[late osprey]

we're shown several alternatives in the various books

there's one where a society acknowledges the existence of chaos and rejects it nonetheless

regardless, the Emperor has decreed the elimination of all forms of governance and philosophy besides the ones he personally prescribes

since he's dead, his prescription has generally mutated over 10,000 years

[summer mural]

the excessive tiering of stuff for hype is kinda impossible to imagine sometimes in the 40k armies, like grey knights have the whole purity of will thing right and are generally incorruptible( allegedly), so you picture that, and then you see that theres an order of purifiers in the grey knights who are even More pure of will and incorruptible than the average gk, like the whole best of the best thing is kinda insane

[queen laurel]

ah yes

Armageddon

my favorite vacation spot

[storm jungle]

it works in a generally goofy-whatever-nonsense kind of way

[plush mason]

speaking of, is the silver knight canon?

the grey knight that came face to face with Slannesh and got corrupted

[storm jungle]

We dont really know if its a grey knight or not.

Otherwise yes its canon as its in an official codex

[spring cairn]

it was just Greg Blight, but they misspelled it

[plush mason]

lmao

[plush mason]

i can never remember where its from and it just sounds like fan lore in my brain

[storm jungle]

Its one of the daemon/chaos codexes

Found it, Chaos Daemons 8th Codex

[plush mason]

wonder if it has a lexicanium page

too google

[green loom]

For all the knowledge he gathered he never really grew up past "bronze age warlord"

[spring cairn]

to*

[storm jungle]

Real.

[spring cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/youre-your-gif-22328611

[storm jungle]

Its just a single codex entry, i can go get it if you want

its a throwaway excerpt

[plush mason]

that works

also it seems the story has a real world myth equivalent with the same name

about a knight that faces many trials in his life and passes them all only to succumb to the dragon at the end of it all lol

thanks for leading me down this rabbit hole google, stay useless

[plush mason]

thanks

[storm jungle]

[static wren]

guy got viktor'd

https://tenor.com/view/viktor-arcane-arcane-viktor-league-meme-gif-14780998962781321172

[storm jungle]

fr fr

[raven stone]

Of note is that it is an unnamed dude as well.
So it could be a generic Grey Knight if GW needs it to be one.

(As opposed to the more famous wandering Grey Knight who carved his name onto Mortarion’s heart)

[plush mason]

Mortarion has a heart?

[raven stone]

Physically, lol

Obviously guy has little to no morals.

[plush mason]

i mean, he is a daemon

[raven stone]

Ok true, but surprisingly yes, according to GW’s own writing.

[rose thorn]

I will say, i dont think its the DoK warlock

Yes, it’s currently attached to some kind of animal (probably), but it could conceivably become food one day – just ask the ogors. If you think you know where it comes from, let us know on Facebook and Instagram.

We have been advised that implying our acolytes are fed paint is against a breathtaking number of regulations, so to make sure the powers that be understand that we definitely do not under any circumstances do that, we present some actual real food. Well not actual food, it’s a plastic miniature, but you know what we mean.

[celest dome]

So the acolyte aren't fed paint

But plastic

[rose thorn]

mhm

[queen laurel]

this has to be for AOS but

looking at the muscle structure of this thing i cannot put my finger on it

[rose thorn]

i dont tihnk its a horse

horse legs look very differnt

[queen laurel]

squig?

[rose thorn]

if i had to guess

deer

[queen laurel]

It's too long

[rose thorn]

look at that back leg

is old world getting wanderers

i mean

woof elves

wood elves*

it might just be a mounted hero

[queen laurel]

if that's ogors i will eat my own leg

[rose thorn]

probs not, its probs referencing the ogor refresh coming

[queen laurel]

can also be new frost sabres

[rose thorn]

mm true, but it does have leg fur like a hoof

[celest dome]

Maybe Sister of the Thorn in AoS ?

[rose thorn]

let me check the underworlds warband

[celest dome]

As they're on deers

[rose thorn]

yeah its not a saber tooth

[rose thorn]

idk if referencing ogors means its aos

[queen laurel]

yeah it's more angled and better for running